11.01.2008

On Pennsylvania Being "In Play"

Tonight on MSNBC with David Shuster, I referred to Pennsylvania as being "in play". I've also implied similar things in the polling threads over the past couple of days. Since we are showing John McCain as having only about a 2% chance to win Pennsylvania, I've had a couple of readers write in to ask whether I'm contradicting myself. Certainly we would not ordinarily refer to a state as "in play" when one of the candidates trails by 6 to 10 points, and there but a few days to go until the election.

What I want to make clear is that whenever I refer to Pennsylvania as being "in play", you should imagine those little quotation marks around my words. You should also imagine that I'm speaking in the conditional tense. Were the national race to tighten by 5 points or so, then Pennsylvania might actually be in play, rather than being "in play". (Actually, that might have been the subjunctive rather than the conditional, but never mind). We're very focused on those scenarios wherein the national race does in fact tighten substantially, because those are the only scenarios wherein John McCain can win.

What Pennsylvania isn't going to do -- at least I don't think -- is move 5 or 6 or 7 points to the McCain side while everything else stays put. It's a pretty middle-of-the-road state, with its share of big cities and small towns and rural areas and everything in between (this is why it's a swing state in the first place). An idiosyncratic state like West Virgina or New Mexico might occasionally come completely untethered from the national trends, but Pennsylvania is not very likely to. Nor is it the sort of state that's likely to catch anybody surprise (unless Obama supporters are dumb enough to become complacent). It's a big, Democratic machine state, and one where Obama has 78 field offices open, many of which have been open since the primary in April.

Pennsylvania has at various times this year ranged from about 2 points behind Obama's national numbers to 5 points ahead of them. If Obama is at about a +7 nationally, I'd expect him so be somewhere between a +5 and a +12 in PA ... that's about the range permissible by its demographics. Anything outside of that range, and I'd tend to think that the poll in question is an outlier.

273 comments

D said...

First?

David C. Uhrig said...

So Pennsylvania being "in play" is a lot like Matt Drudge posting that McCain is "leading in the polls"?

Ted Striker said...

Didn't see the Shuster bit... but when you said "in play" did you mime the quotes? It would be only fitting...

Listen to my Hype said...

That was weird, I logged on several minutes ago and saw this thread but moved to the 72 hour one to go in order...no Newer post at the bottom. Oh well who cares, in the top 25 and posted at the end of the last thread as usual dammit.

anivaerw-something viral and really bad happening to ones infected ani. gross

D. Melanogaster said...

I don't understand what it means that the projection and trend on the right is going down down down if things are fairly stable??

Jerry said...

Congrats on your deserved tele-presence, Nate.

Has anyway done predictions for voter suppression scenarios state by state and how they might affect races?

Cheers!

Bert said...

I am really concerned that McCain will take PA and VA and win.

It is still a long shot, but McCain is waging the dirtiest campaign in recent history and he is relentless in attacking--like a soldier who has only a few bullets left.

Sometimes they win.

If I were Obama, he should send Bill Clinton, Hilary, Gore, and Kerry to PA and VA. There is no point in trying to win Arizona. He absolutely needs to focus on the three or four states he absolutely needs to have in order to win.

That's what McCain is doing and Obama must counter him--or risk an upset. I am not kidding!

Christopher said...

Thank you. I assumed a state with a million more dems than repubs wasn't in play, but I don't pretend to understand that state. If Obama wins by 3 or 4 there, I'm fine with it. He can expand on that in 2012.

FakeVirginian said...

PA Muhlenberg (sp?)

O: 52 (NC)
M: 45 (+1)

But that magic number is that 52. Still a majority= winning.

Here's a weird one that i don't trust for a second
Ohio University
10/12-23/08; 611 Adults, 4%
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews

Ohio
Obama 57, McCain 41

Hah...must've been a class project. Sitting on a poll much??

A text said...

please tell me nate used "dick fingers" (and yes, I'm using them) for PA

Fluffy Sweetbutter said...

I haven't seen the piece, but I'm assuming (since you've received comment) that the quote-emphasis difference didn't carry on TV as it does in type.

Which, I wouldn't expect it to, so I wonder if it would make more sense to expressly qualify 'in play'.

Matt said...

Mason-Dixon Virginia...

O: 47
M: 44

Virginia

A one point improvement for Obama from their previous poll of the state.

y2roby said...

PA being "in play" as opposed to in play is great news...for John McCain!

Sorry to do that, but i'm first time poster and longtime lurker and I had to try:)

Your site is keeping me sane!

theliberalcrab said...

Nate - sorry, I am disappointed. I think you are stretching now for the pub. Either PA is or isn't in play. If McCain has a 2% chance, then it's simply not in play. You are playing the MSM's game of trying to sound alarms on the election.

Please don't think me disrespectful, I have a lot of respect for what you do. Your analysis is great - just don't let 'the man' change your objectivity.

Rich Rifkin said...

Nate, try to look alive when you are on TV. It appeared as if you were about to fall asleep on Charlie Rose, last night.

-- 2500 N. Pulaski

kilioopu said...

It's so amazing, the amount of fear and dread in us Obama supporters. I just want it to be ooooooovvvvver, please, stop the pain.

Janet said...

Saw Nate this evening and always enjoy his perceptions being added to the general public's consumption of the information shared on this site.

I have, perversely, been on the McCain/Palin website to view what people from that point of view have been saying.

With such a short time remaining until the votes are actually tallied, I think that it's a good time for all of us who support the Obama presidency to start to encourage those in the opposing camp to think of Country First.

As we all canvass, email and call everyone we know to vote for Senator Obama on Tuesday, we should consider inviting those with whom we disagree to be prepared for whomever the next president will be.

Just a thought.

Quadrivium said...

The conditional is not a tense. (Yesterday on the Guardian, Michael Tomasky wrote about the "subjunctive tense," and the subjunctive isn't a tense either.) Revially. (wv)

sherifffruitfly said...

Shorter Silver: If words meant something other than what they actually mean, then PA would be in play.

Wonderful.

Rich Rifkin said...

"We're very focused on those scenarios wherein the national race does in fact tighten substantially, because those are the only scenarios wherein John McCain can win."

If McCain wins, the riots are going to be bad. Worse than Rodney King. And all over Blue America.

On the other hand, I wonder, if the way Detroit rioted after the Pistons won in the NBA, there might be riots in inner-cities celebrating an Obama victory.

Matt said...

Has anyone noticed that Mason-Dixon consistently shows a larger percentage of undecideds than other pollsters?' Virginia, Pennsylvania and Florida three recent examples.

Dave Barnes said...

Nate,

Mister Conditional/Subjunctive.

The plural is scenari, not scenarios.
The language is Italiano.

,dave

HRD said...

I'm not sure I'm going to make it to Tuesday. The anxiety is killing me.

Zenu said...

Okay that snl skit with mccain was probably my favorite out of all of them. I thought it was hilarious

Ryno said...

Obama is at or above the 50% mark in PA. For McCain to win he would have to pull support from Obama in two days.

Won't happen.

Wesley said...

Holy shit. SNL's open was awesome.

Zenu said...

Also, to be on topic for once, I don't think PA is in play (I live about 15 minutes south of the mason dixon line) and I would be shocked if McCain won it, and that is definitely not overconfidence on my behalf.

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

John McCain, Tina Fey (Bible Spice) and Cindy McCain with a hilarious bit about the only way McCain could get an infomercial on TV was with QVC.

This little plug was the best he could do. Oh well, jumping the shark never hurts, right>

FakeVirginian said...

McCain is still pretty funny. It's too bad he sold out and picked a shitty running mate. It reminded me of a McCain i was thinking of voting for over gore in 2000 if we won the nom. but i guess we're stuck with this guy who will probably lose on tuesday. in the words of palin: c'est la vie.

Boring Blue Maryland said...

Nate - I am a "true believer" and stalker of yours. Everyone I know calls me to let me know when you will appear on t.v. I now call you my favorite geek (most admirably). Anyway - I prefer to continue to actually look at the web site - it always makes me feel better to continue looking at the projections on here. When I saw you on MSNBC tonight - I kept saying (to myself)"I wish they'd look at the site."

I just hope you REALLY do know what you are doing!

Change we need!

Keep up the great work . . .for the next very few days.

Kenny Johnson said...

McCain's current leads in the state polls plus PA and VA still only give him 219.

He'd need:
NC (234)
FL (261)

Then still needs 9. So
CO (270)

Do people really expect he'll get all those?

Questors said...

And when I imagine the words "in play" in quotation marks, I'll also imagine the period / comma in there, too just to show how much I admire Nate and appreciate his hard work.

Listen to my Hype said...

I missed quality time with my hubby scrolling through comments yet again on a late Saturday night =(. I am glad the exhaustion has made news, I can't take much more, and thankfully don't have too. My husband who sorry is one of those black guys who is voting for him cause he is black (joking McCain/Palin is an obvious idiot choice) well idiot with what I think will be great for our country...My husband in the last 48 hours asked me: Who was JTP is he really a person, why in the world would anyone thing Sarah Palin can run this country, he doesn't follow politics and doesn't understand a word she is saying because she speaks in circles, and he wanted to know what we were all going to do on Wednesday when it was all over. What were we going to say, talk about...I figured we would talk about the polls yet again and which ones were so right and which ones were not wrong. I am scared about the following week.......I am hoping that my legs will be too tired from dancing with joy. =)

formax-tired and got nothing...

Jen said...

John McCain is reminding me more and more of John Kerry and his campaign. It is like deja vue, but from the other side. McCain is putting all his eggs in the Pennsylvania basket. At about the same time in the 04 election, Kerry decided Ohio or bust.

Ancess. The deep and festering wound on the body politic that the GOP has become.

WakeUpEverybody said...

Great job tonight Nate on MSNBC. Thanks for all your hard work. I know I could not have gotten through this election without someone as dedicated as you doing' what you do.

Go Phillies.

Seretse said...

Matt said...
Mason-Dixon Virginia...

O: 47
M: 44

Virginia



Poll was in the field Wednesday and Thursday of last week.

jwgresham said...

Nate: This site now has Obama at a 98% chance of winning in Pa. Is that "in play" give Obama's national numbers today? Don't get carried away with your new found fame and start feeding the MSM what they need to keep their viewers tuned in. By the way did you use McCain's famous "air quotes when you call Pa as being "in play"? You are better than that.

itsSlipK said...

Matt said...

Has anyone noticed that Mason-Dixon consistently shows a larger percentage of undecideds than other pollsters?' Virginia, Pennsylvania and Florida three recent examples.
November 1, 2008 10:34 PM

Also, none of their polls ever show Obama breaking 50 in any state I can remember.

CloudyFuture said...

Thanks for that inisght on the "in play" comment on MSNBC....Was kinda of worried when you mentioned that at the end of your interiew....

But like others have said as long as Obama maintains that 50-52% in PA should be ok (I hope)....

As for stumping in PA I think I saw some where that Hilary and Biden will be there on Mon but the fact that Obama himself will not be there I find telling IMO....

Mylegacy said...

Nate it's not conditional or subjunctive it's past pluperfect. By the way Nate - you were great on MSNBC except for your dangling participle - you really gotta tuck that back in on national TV!

Joel said...

Why PA is not in play:

The last poll showing McCain with a lead (other than Zogby interactive) was Rasmussen back on, wait for it...

April 24th. (McCain +1)

Ed said...

"Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in the middle."

James Carville

wv: exciti - laid-off Citibank employee.

livemild said...

HUH?

Oh well. since i refuse to watch mccain on snl i am left with rehashing PA> which obama had better hold.
the more i read posts like this though the more confused i am and that translates into obama losing PA>

Cugel said...

Nate: I think you commented some time ago that if a candidate wanted to make an all-out effort to concentrate on one state he could possibly flip it, but that would leave him open to losing multiple others where he wasn't concentrating because there are only limited resources, money, people and time.

I think PA may be an example of this. McCain is concentrating on it, although NOT as exclusively as Gore did in Florida in 2000 or Kerry in Ohio in 2004.

But, he's leaving himself vulnerable in Colorado and Nevada. McCain has to hope that Forida and MO and NC manage themselves without his help while he concentrates on Virginia, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Obama doesn't seem too worried about Pennsylvania or they'd have him campaigning there during the last few days. (Joe Biden was there though so they're not being complacent).

Overall, McCain's effort in PA is less likely to be successful than Kerry's in Ohio in 2004. After all, Bush only won by 2.4%, so naturally a battleground state like Ohio was close.

But, if Obama is going to win by at least 3% and possibly twice that, then McCain just has NO chance in PA.

I expect to see McCain swamped by eastern PA on Tuesday night. When Virginia gets projected for Obama by around 10:00 PM eastern time, it's over.

VW: "rievi" as in "rievi-derchi McCain"

jack said...

Hah, what a readership. I came to here to note that both the conditional and subjunctive are moods, not tenses -- and I'm under the impression that English, lacking much conjugation, doesn't really distinguish between the two -- but it looks like 3 people have already beaten me to it.

John McCain is my Love Child! said...

Thanks for the clarification...

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

The ONLY reason McCain went for the Pennsylvania "hail mary" play is that it is the only battleground Kerry state that does not have early voting.

It is the All-In play of a short-stack player. McCain is drawing dead.

Keith Olberman send up is hilarious!!!! Ben Affleck is spot on tonight!

Hopeful in NJ said...

Besides the direct PA operation, the main task of the Obama NJ operation (for better or worse) is to feed calls and volunteers into PA.

IKEIKE said...

Well, not in play. As I suspected.

tdc2000 said...

Here's a stat question for those who know more about election polls than me....

Has a candidate ever won a race after not leading a single major national poll the entire month of October? Truman in 1948, maybe?

I've been keeping track since July. The last poll McCain has lead was the Battleground tracker Monday, 29 September. The last stand alone poll he lead dropped off RCP on 18 September.

To see McCain win now would be nothing short of miraculous.

lucyp said...

So what is wrong with us Dems? Do you think that if McCain had a 9+% chance of winning, and the map looked as red as it currently looks blue, that they'd all be holding their breath and worrying like we are about whether or not it was going to hold? My impression of Repubs is that they'd be confident and crowing, and ordering the champagne and caviar. Is it just 2000/2004, or are Dems more naturally pessimistic?

wv=revivers: Even 10 revivers couldn't help the moribund McCain campaign at this point...

newsinOH said...

livemild,

I watched Mc on SNL and it was fine. He was quite likable (the 2000 Mc) but appeared with Tina Fey who was, as usual, great. The skit was very clever, actually.

Robert Cruickshank said...

PA is tightening, that much is undeniable.

Is it "in play"? I think there's a lot of semantics happening here. Our victory there is no longer assured.

That's no surprise. If the presidential and vice-presidential candidates park themselves in a state for a couple weeks it stands to reason that Obama's lead would shrink.

I'd prefer a more realistic discussion of what is happening in PA rather than this tortured attempt to both explain that McCain does have an outside chance and at the same time avoid feeding the "omg tight race" narrative.

Let's just have an honest discussion, and not worry so much about what narrative it feeds.

PeteKent said...

Ready for a McCain LANDSLIDE, libs?

Nate is finally admitting the truth! PA is now SOLID McCain!!!!!

MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!

VOTE DOLE...KAY HAGAN IS GODLESS!!!

Cugel said...

BTW: If there's GOING to be a late "surge" for McCain, then tomorrow is about the last day it could occur. We should be seeing it by now, yet we're seeing Obama at +7% in the tracking polling. And most battleground states are simply staying put with Obama in the lead.

Take a look at the early voting in North Carolina http://www.earlyvoting.net/blog/ where Obama has already turned out 120% more for Democrats than in 2004. Republican turnout is up 80% -- a 40% gap over 2004.

LOTS of African Americans have voted and turnout is going to be intense on Tuesday as well.

In Florida, it's the same: Democrats have turned in 1,000,000 early vote ballots, Republicans 600,000, a 400,000 vote margin for Obama.

By Tuesday when the voting begins, Obama will be up close to 1/2 million votes in Florida. If he's anywhere close to McCain on election day, it's not going to even be close in Florida and we'll know by 10:00 PM EST that Obama is the winner by a landslide.

lucyp said...

Sorry..that started out as 97+% chance of winning. Not sure what happened! [blush]

Wesley said...

Affleck's killing me.

T Kopke said...

I saw the Shuster thing. You were great. I understood you to say that PA could be in play if there was some overall change that we do not anticipate, a disaster. McCain is hoping for that--It is all he can do.

Judith Warner has a great bit in yesterday's NYT for those of us who are going insane with the wait. There are lots of comments, and I found it strangely comforting to read the thoughts of so many others are just sick with worry right now. Address:

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/

newsinOH said...

I was also glad that SNL ripped on Rateater Hasselback

OldFatGuy said...

Long time reader, first time poster from Loudoun County, VA. Would like to make two comments.
1)I've seen a lot of folks coming down on so-called "conern trolls" and it bothers me. Don't know if you guys lack memories or are delusional, but the Democrats ABSOLUTELY won in 2000 and ALMOST CERTAINLY won in 2004, yet I've just lived through 8 years of the worst president of my life. There is no such thing as too much concern.
2)And now some food for conspiracy theorists out there. Living in NoVa my whole life, I can tell you there are two things most of us have in common. a)We commute quite a distance to work (usually DC metro area) and in a state without early voting that means our only options are BEFORE work (BAD) or AFTER work (WORSE); and b) we're CRAZY Washington Redskins fans. Does anyone find it an odd coincidence that the MNF game the night before the election is between the Washington Redskins and Pittsburgh Steelers??? Hmm, northern VA and western PA??? Hmm, how many of those voters aren't gonna wanna get up extra early and go for the BEFORE work option??? Especiall how many of those "don't know if we can count on" young voters are gonna have big heads after MNF and just blow it off??? Hmm, anyone wanna lay odds on the game going overtime???? Really sucks when the Republicans can even manipulate the NFL schedule. :D

Wesley said...

Best. Special Comment. Ever.

jUUggernaut said...

Here's what "in play" means: I was at the Golden, Colorado Obama office today where we got a little pep talk by Jason Bane who runs for County commissioner. He told us of a race a friend lost in 2006 because, as it turned out, people who had yardsign up with that fellow's name then didn't bother to vote.

That said, the office was positively buzzing.
Half my church was there (Unitarian Universalists are known for their liberal ideas), and my precinct canvass group turned out to consist exclusively of PhD's, including three profs from the Colorado School of Mines, so they made me, the college drop out, their precinct captain...

CloudyFuture said...

Joe The Fake Virginian said...
The ONLY reason McCain went for the Pennsylvania "hail mary" play is that it is the only battleground Kerry state that does not have early voting.

It is the All-In play of a short-stack player. McCain is drawing dead.
++++++++++++
Oh WoW that makes sense then (for him anyways)...They can just say see were within 4-5 (depending on the poll) and we can catch up and not have early voting thrown at them (like they did today on MSNBC and CNN with FL and NC. Though they countered with the internal polling data on those as well)...

Still when almost all polls show Obama over 50% you have to wonder what hes still thinking....I guess anything is possible but eh....wonder if he gets slammed dunked by everyone if mccain loses by over 5 points....

pygmy_owl said...

Here's what I don't get (not to hijack the thread, or anything):

But why would anybody wait until election day to vote if early voting and voting by mail is possible? Seems completely screwball to me. Is it tradition? Laziness? Lack of information?

Brian said...

Way off subject, but I told myself earlier tonight that if my undergraduate alma mater, Texas Tech, could hang on and win tonight, then there is absolutely no way that Obama can lose. I can't wait to feel this excited again on Tuesday after the Obama victory!!

eponymous said...

Hey Pete,

Who do you think is in McCain's cabinet first term?

Wesley said...

Pygmy_owl: For some, procrastination. For others, tradition. For the rest, there are just far more polls open on election day.

pygmy_owl said...

juggernaut:

how's it looking in Golden? Boulder's a wrap, obviously. I just can't get a clear sense of what's going on outside of the Republic. Most of the CU students have voted (or so they tell me). What kind of support are you getting in Coors country?

newsinOH said...

Still more great campaign lines (almost as good as him saying the Khalidi boomerang hit Mc's camp somewhere between their nose and forehead):

Asked by ABC News if he'd heard the prank call played on Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Robert Gibbs, a senior adviser to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told reporters that he'd heard parts of it.

His response?

"I'm glad we check out our calls before we hand the phone to Barack Obama," Gibbs said.

PeteKent said...

Trust me libs, honestly.

I know this is going to crush your hopes, but in case you haven't paid attention the last 8 years, we don't live in a democracy. The republicans will win. No matter WHAT. They will find some way to win. Sorry, libs.

But I'm not complaining! =) Come to the other side libs, the team of winners. You'll feel a lot better about elections when you WIN, even if you do cheat. Cheaters ALWAYS win. :)

lucyp said...

pygmy owl--

My 80+ year old parents live in NC and are waiting till Tuesday to vote. My mother said voting is something "we all do together." I think she likes the idea of it being an activity that (traditionally) a huge chunk of Americans participate in on the same day. And I don't think she sees any real advantage to voting early--not like the lines have been short as a result! Actually, they live in a retirement community and vote there, so they're not expecting long lines regardless.

pygmy_owl said...

Wesley: I think that's what has me worried. If that's true, then the early voting numbers are really basically a gauge of the enthusiasm on the ground. The rest of the vote? We can count on it breaking heavily for McCain.

Scalze said...

From TNR:

I don't know, Nate. I admire your work and your lucid explanations of polls and their import. But this doesn't make any sense. You are contradicting yourself. To say that PA is "in play" in the event of a sudden, nationwide meltdown of Obama's lead is not at all what people mean, or understand you to mean, by "PA is at this moment 'in play'."

pygmy_owl said...

I like Lucy's answer better. (Please note, I'm not a concern troll. I'm just concerned, as any rational person with a memory would be.)

Cugel said...

"Kenny Johnson said...

McCain's current leads in the state polls plus PA and VA still only give him 219.

He'd need:
NC (234)
FL (261)

Then still needs 9. So
CO (270)

Do people really expect he'll get all those?"


McCain was trying for:

Bush 2004 (286) - IA (7) - NM (5) = 274 EV.

But, then Colorado and Virginia started slipping away and NC, FL, OH, IN, MO and NV became too close to call.

Without CO or VA, he needs to flip a big Kerry state: PA because of the 21 EV, not because McCain has much hope there.

It's simple math: 286 minus (IA, CO, NM, VA) = 273.

It's the ONLY realistic path to victory for McCain.

But, for it to happen, he has to hold: FL, OH, MO, IN, NC, NV.

The fly in the ointment is NV. He has no realistic chance of winning it. SO, he has to concentrate on making a comeback in VA as well as flipping PA, and then hope that FL, OH, IN, NC, MO take care of themselves.

Rather a tall order, but he's past desperate at this point.

Wesley said...

I guess we'll see. After that mean QVC skit on SNL, I think McCain's got a real shot of a landslide.

Grant said...

With a need to do something positive to address my anxieties in overly red Utah, I made some calls to Pennsylvania on behalf of the Obama campaign this afternoon. It's really easy to do just go to:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/votercontact/login?requested=%2Fpage%2Fvotercontact%2Fmake_calls%3Fcampaign_id%3D3nY

Everybody I talked to was very positive about going out to vote for Obama (except for one guy who said I was interrupting a birthday party). It made me feel a lot better.

And I also spoke to a friend in northern Virginia (the "communist" part of the state) who is an independent and said that he has had seven calls from the Obama campaign and a total of ZERO from McCain (not even any robo-calls!) So, that's all anecdotal but I made me feel a lot better.

newsinOH said...

Absolutely insane, but apparently true:

Dr Peter Millican, a philosophy don at Hertford College, Oxford, has devised a computer software program that can detect when works are by the same author by comparing favourite words and phrases.

He was contacted last weekend and offered $10,000 (£6,200) to assess alleged similarities between Obama’s bestseller, Dreams from My Father, and Fugitive Days, a memoir by William Ayers.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5063279.ece

DFS said...

Oldfatguy

You started off you post criticizing the criticism of concern trolls then wrote what you wrote?

Did Gore or Kerry have a 13 point lead in ANY Poll 3 days before the election?

Did Gore or Kerry have an average lead in Ohio, Virginia, Colorado three days before the election?

Did Gore or Kerry have a double digit lead in early voting nationwide before the election

Was it good news for Bush when he was tied or within 5 points in traditionally republican states?

the present is not the past.....

PorridgeGun said...

Lorne Michaels is a knob.

lucyp said...

Hmm--my post got eaten!

My parents are voting for Obama. (But then, they're not yellow-dog NC Democrats--they're northern transplants.)

wv=pumme=a PUMA who can't spell very well

Brian said...

Grant -

I was calling PA today as well. The majority was very positive for Obama and GOTV. One exception was a guy that told me that he was really supportive of Joe the Plumber's ideas. Of course, I immediately wrote him off as a loony, but still took the moment to have a friendly debate with him. It was kind of fun.

Newsinoh - couldn't get your link to work

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

Strategically, McCain's PA plan makes sense, in exactly the same way Kerry's OH plan in 2004 made perfect sense. As much as I do not want an McCain administration, as much as I want an Obama administration, I would be horrified and deeply saddened if McCain just gave up the ghost.

Racer X said...

Just imagining quotes around "in play" does not make the phrase be subjunctive (or conditional, which is the same thing). "Pennsylvania would be 'in play' if..." would be the subjunctive, and would be the phrase that you are searching for. You can't expect people not to freak out when the nuance is entirely in your hands...literally...as you mime the quotation marks. No wonder people are upset. In play is in play.. would be in play is would be in play.

Love your blog. Hope you are right.

Quadrivium said...

As long as we're talking football, here's another interpretation of what "in play" means.

It's the fourth quarter, and you're trailing 28-14. You've just scored a touchdown with one minute left on the clock. Should you kick the extra point, or go for the two-point conversion?

The question matters only if you're going to score another touchdown in the next minute, which, realistically, you probably aren't. But you have to assume that you are in order to make the best decision.

That's the sense in which Pennsylvania is in play for McCain. He has to assume it is, because if it isn't, nothing else matters.

Adam Posey said...

OK, I don't want to be a hand-wringer here. But how much can we trust these polls to provide us somewhat accurate data concerning what might happent?

I'm gonna go ahead and say, no pollster that I'm aware of saw the New Hampshire Primary victory for Clinton happening. In fact, Obama was up by 8 points in many of the polls.

Was that just a fluke or what?

OregonPride said...

Let me try to explain what Nate is saying in a different way.

Picture this as McCain and Obama playing tug of war, with a rope made of pieces (each corresponding to a state) which can switch order (so, OK, not a really physical rope). This being tug-of-war, the object is to pull the mid-way point on your side of the line. Now, these pieces are going to be closer to either end depending on how blue or red they are, so McCain has UT and WY near him, Obama has RI and NY near him, etc.

Right now (according to poll numbers) Obama has well over half the rope on his side. What must McCain do to win? Well first, he has to at least make it close - assume that for some reason (his pulling, Obama weakening, the ground slipping under Obama's feet), the middle of the rope will start heading back to the line. But then, once things get close, he needs that last tug of the links in the rope which are now near the middle.

That's Pennsylvania, in the middle of the rope, but nowhere close to the midpoint now. The states which are close to the mid-point now are North Carolina, Missouri, etc. But even though they are where there is the most uncertainty is in terms of who will win them, they are not "in play" in the sense that Nate is using the phrase. Because if those states are where the action is on election night, the game is already over.

So really "in play" means "would be one to watch if somehow the race became no longer a blowout."

David said...

I was walking on campus here at UC Irvine, and heard 2 college students talking about voting... "I want to wait until November 4th to vote. It's my first election ever, and I want to feel like I've experienced the real thing." "You mean, you want to experience standing in line?" "Heh, I guess... I just want to have the experience once of doing it the normal way.

CloudyFuture said...

pygmy_owl said...
Wesley: I think that's what has me worried. If that's true, then the early voting numbers are really basically a gauge of the enthusiasm on the ground. The rest of the vote? We can count on it breaking heavily for McCain.
++++++++++++++++
My concern (trolling) will be if large amount of people go out and try to vote on tues see the lines and say nvermind because they dont want to wait....Horrible I know but eh....


DFS said...

Did Gore or Kerry have a 13 point lead in ANY Poll 3 days before the election?

Did Gore or Kerry have an average lead in Ohio, Virginia, Colorado three days before the election?

Did Gore or Kerry have a double digit lead in early voting nationwide before the election

Was it good news for Bush when he was tied or within 5 points in traditionally republican states?

the present is not the past.....
++++++++++++
heh nice that eases my mind (well a little) but VERY good points....

Michael said...

I'd like to ask Nate a few questions.

1. If you average out the polls from last Wednesday to 7 days prior, Obama's lead in PA: It's around 12 points.

2. If you average out the last polls out of PA since then:
MD- O+4
RAS- O+4
STRAT- O+5
ARG- O+6
MUL- O+7
Obama's lead is 5.2 points.

So explain to me when the national tracking polls have moved from Obama +8 to Obama +6.5, Obama's lead has been cut in half?

PA is very much in play folks... The next SUSA poll out of PA will back me up.

MATT J. H. said...

Guys, Gallup is at +10 for Obama 3 days, sorry, 2 days before the election. Let me say that again, +10!

Their "Tradition" Likley voter model is now equal to the expanded model. What does that mean?
McCain is F#@KED!

Can you say, Landslide?

PeteKent said...

Trust me libs, honestly.

I know this is going to crush your hopes, but in case you haven't paid attention the last 8 years, we don't live in a democracy. The republicans will win. No matter WHAT. They will find some way to win. Sorry, libs.

But I'm not complaining! =) Come to the other side libs, the team of winners. You'll feel a lot better about elections when you WIN, even if you do cheat. Cheaters ALWAYS win. :)

winniechili said...

No football analogies please, I can just imagine McCain going around tomorrow talking like his campaign is the embodiment of Texas Tech...

mc9cain said...

my post just got eaten too. And I'm a little annoyed because it was a damn good one but so long that I'm not going to retype. Suffice it to say that Nate is parsing PA to the point of it looking like PA - ARSING. He has it as Safe Dem on the right column. Why are we discussing it??? Just because McCain wants us to believe in the bogeyman??

Seretse said...

david have you ever heard of O'Donnell Atkins?

jUUggernaut said...

Coors country (in Golden, Colorado) is densely populated Jefferson County. Some towns are leaning Dem, others, like Arvada, Rep. Colorado can be won if we succeed in bringing loads of Dems to the polls to counterbalance the traditional tendencies.
The scales are tipping, thanks to rapid growth through people moving here from other parts of the country.
Also note that even Evangelicals (which not only in Colo Springs!) are warming up to Obama.
So, yes, with effort, we'll get there.
Traditionally, the Reps are said to vote reliably. They may do it again, even though the excitement clearly isn't there.

R. M. Nixon said...

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I am not a crook, and Pennsylvania is "in play." That's two things. Let me make two things perfectly clear: I am not a crook, and Pennsylvania is "in play."

There, god$%&*it Henry, are you happy now?

newsinOH said...

Brian,

Copy and paste (sorry)

The story is hilarious--Reps try to prove that Ayers ghost wrote Obama's book. Offer the money, send the books. Guy says "Gosh doesn't look like much chance they're written by the same people but, if you want to commission a big study, maybe they'll find something."

So the Reps are all fired up, then the expert insists that he'll only do it if the results are made public either way. POOF!! They didn't want to risk being found out as conspiracy nuts and they disappeared.

Mortimer Feldsnitch said...

Dear Nate:

My husband thinks I'm cheating on him. Little does he know...

PeteKent said...

Just because McCain wants us to believe in the bogeyman??

Exactly. And you libs took the bait, like the fools you are! Haha! Stupid lib!

Now PA conservatives are energized. Soft Obama supporters are knowing their state can swing things, and are rethinking their support of him. They don't want THEIR state to be responsible for electing a terrorist!

MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!!

Brian said...

Winnie -

That analogy wouldn't work because Tech led the whole game up until the last 2:00 before having to make a last second comeback. McCain better not use my school. Even though it's a conservative leaning campus, I would be pissed.

winniechili said...

That analogy wouldn't work because Tech led the whole game up until the last 2:00 before having to make a last second comeback. McCain better not use my school. Even though it's a conservative leaning campus, I would be pissed.

I know that....

Seretse said...

McCain just dropped 2+ points on intrade, Obama +2.

Jason said...

I'm not sweating PA. That's because I live here. The state is not a James Carville caricature from 16 years ago. The central part isn't quite as socially conservative as it was, particularly in the Dauphin/Berks/Lancaster/York County region. Obama beat Clinton in Lancaster County in the primary, something that would have been impossible not long ago. Palin is killing McCain in the Philly suburbs, a traditionally competitive area. Obama's GOTV is incredible. I've had 10 people knock on my door in the last month and I live where registration is 2-to-1 Republican. Obama will win here.

Kenny Johnson said...

Michael said:
PA is very much in play folks... The next SUSA poll out of PA will back me up.

I guess that means Arizona is in play then too? And Georgia? And Montana? And Indiana? And Missouri?

I'll give all 50 of those to Obama. McCain can keep the 21 from PA.

Kola said...

Waiting on Matt for Zogby's leak! Any info yet?

MATT J. H. said...

PPP released a sneak blog about their PA poll coming out on Monday and they said not to worry, PA is safe.

PA is all McCain has left, and it's a Republican graveyard. Obama wins PA by 6-8 points.

PeteKent said...

You libs are such tools.

How can a lib be so stupid? You TOOK McCain's Pennsylvania bait. No conservatives would take Obama's bait if he said Utah was competitive! lmfao!!!

MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!

Brian said...

News -

That is funny, but sad that they are trying crap like that. No doubt they were freepers. I saw a couple of times on their stupid site that they were trying to say that Ayers was the ghost writer. Idiots!!!!!!

By the way, I did paste the link. I am using a mac, so any links that come up in my pop up have to be copied and pasted for some reason. Thanks for the summary though.

boulder-liberal said...

"Can you say, Landslide?"

Yes I can.. Obama Landslide. Oldfatguy, can you say it? Its easy. Really rolls off the tongue.

Michael said...

Just wanted to throw this out there about this supposed unbelievable GOTV by Obama.

Well how come I have never once received a knock on the door from any Obama volunteer this year at all? I live in Ohio, a battleground state, in an area where Obama did terrible: YOUNGSTOWN, OH.

Never did I ever get that knock at the door or ever see them out. I hear how great it is in VA-CO, and it probably is, but it's nonexistent in the suburbs of Youngstown.

winniechili said...

Good call on the PPP blog

We've done enough interviews in Pennsylvania the last couple days to be pretty confident in saying Obama has nothing to worry about there.

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/

Michael said...

Matt JH...

Haha using PPP to back your claim up is awesome man. PPP will go down as one terrible pollster after this election is done.

How can anyone forget the ridiculous poll they released in Ohio in June that gave the Democrats a 25 point party id edge!!!! Hahaha it was D+3 in 2006, and in 2 years they gained 22 points.

LMFAO.
PPP = TOILET

Kenny Johnson said...

Just a hunch, Michael...

You have a McCain sign on your lawn?

no mercy rules said...

I bed you loved being on TV, you media slut.

Politowitz said...

This story references other Mason Dixon polls:

http://www.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/local/article/polls_say_mccain_win_a_longshot/30594/


According to the story, he's up in CO, FL, NV and PA and down in OH, MO and NC. No numbers though.

Adam Posey said...

Nate, or anyone else:

I've been looking back through poll data and while I do believe Obama has a victory ahead of him, I found some cause for concern:

Dem NH Primary 08. Looking at those numbers makes me far less trusting of the polling data we have. Am I being over concerned, or is my worry legitimate?

winniechili said...

michael, could it be because they've been tipped off about your sunny and pleasant disposition, and are saving the best for last?

Clarissa said...

Adam Posey-

New Hampshire polling was a fluke. What caused the movement is unclear but some think it was the fact that all the polls were taken before Hillary cried. Absentee voting could also have had an impact because Hillary was up in NH until after Iowa. Polling an open primary also makes determinig who votes where more difficult. Some also say Obama got his number but EDWARDS didn't get his and they went Hillary.

NH's traditional place in the electoral calendar made it much more scrutinized and noticed but in several subsequent states, especially in the south, Obama significantly overperformed his polls. If you compare overperformance to underperformance of polls it comes out even or pro-Obama for the primaries.

N45 said...

I think the point is that PA is a longshot but it isn't any worse of a longshot than CO or VA at this point.

i mean, PA is at a 2% win chance for McCain... but the whole election is at a 3.8% chance win. The entire country could be classified as "Safe Obama". PA is "in play" in the sense that it's as good a place as any for McCain to try his hail mary.

rwbthe4th said...

i think the subjunctive would be a mood, not a tense, if we're going to get technical, and something can be a conditional and still use the subjunctive.

MATT J. H. said...

I guess Drudge didn't get any good Zogby numbers tonight, too bad. Poor Zogby, it must feel terrible to be that shity at a job you've been doing for that long.

Mark said...

When Drudge doesn't leak Zogby...doesn't that usually mean things are the same or better for Obama?

newsinOH said...

brian,

If you go to timesonline.co.uk, I think it's their top story in the US election section in today's (Sunday's) paper. It's definitely worth the read because it's so bizarre and slimy. They name names as well.

Odd how the freepers have their paranoia totally directed outward where, at least here, the paranoia is all inward.

Sedi said...

"Well how come I have never once received a knock on the door from any Obama volunteer this year at all? I live in Ohio, a battleground state, in an area where Obama did terrible: YOUNGSTOWN, OH."

Wow, a personal anecdote of a single voter not being contacted by a campaign. That's compelling evidence, especially when offered on a website dedicated to making smarter use of available data. Pay no attention to all of the work Sean did in his "On the Road" series, since this new fact clearly shows that Sean has no clue what he is talking about. Powerful stuff.

euklid said...

Hey Nate,

please ignore those people that say you have to be more animated on TV. It's so refreshing to see someone who talks in a normal voice on TV.

Michael said...

Matt JH.

Start the MATTREPORT.COM.
Good luck topping the 6.9 billion hits to Drudge this past year.

Hahaha.. I'm predicting a McCain win in the electoral dept, and a loss in the popular vote.

Who cares what national polls say.
IN 2000 BUSH WAS UP 3-5 POINTS IN ALMOST EVERY POLL ON NOVEMBER 2......

Gore won the popular vote!!!

David said...

Michael in Youngstown:

If you're an Obama supporter, get out there and change that! We need people like you to get involved!

If you're not... well, maybe they have you down as being unlikely to support Obama, and they're there but you don't see them.

Alex S. said...

Our judgement on what state is "in play" has been clouded by Obama's effort to turn bloody red states like Indiana and North Carolina blue. But honestly, any state that is favoring a candidate by around 7 pts 3 days before the election is NOT IN PLAY! Look at the states that are in play, Missouri and Indiana. You see a confusing pattern of blue, red and tied polls. Look at Pennsylvania and you see nothing but blue.

boquita said...

Can, someone, please explain what does "PUMA" mean?

Thanks

OldFatGuy said...

@Michael

Gore also won the electoral college.

Dave Brodbeck said...

@michael I have a Sir John A here (10 dollar bill) that says your prediction is wrong, would you care to bet?

slicknickshady said...

it's stupid nut it stand for Political Unity My Ass.

other Michael said...

@boquita:
Party Unity My Ass, a slogan of Hillary's supporters

CloudyFuture said...

Politowitz said...
According to the story, he's up in CO, FL, NV and PA and down in OH, MO and NC. No numbers though.
++++++++++++++++++++++
What I found interesting is that Chuck Todd stated the Obama campaign dont feel confident in landing OH but their hopes have raised on FL....something along those lines ...Said this on fri and again today....

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

PA remains the best Kerry state that McCain can go after, with 21 nice electoral votes. Limited time, limited resources. Desparate times call for desparate measures.

wv: icantu - no need to elaborate further

A Conservatively Moderate Liberal said...

I've been following this blog for quite some time. As a minority former-registered-Republican-now-registered-Independent supporting Obama, I must caution you to be careful about landslides and things like that. Could Obama pick up 300, or 350+ EVs? Perhaps. But although my heart of hearts wishes this election to be a 50-state blowout, I highly doubt that will happen.

But again, speaking as a person of color (and someone once on the other side of the aisle), I can say with absolute conviction that this race is not over until it's over. Call it the Bradley Effect, the neverending feuds re: Obama and his family/faith/color/illegal alien aunt/political stances, etc. Given the fact that many people are still voting, and sometimes tend to lie to the pollster (e.g., New Hampshire) I frankly won't even begin pondering celebrating until I see hard returns Tuesday evening.

No disrespect, Nate, or any of the other good people here, but (for example) I live in Duval County, FL, which is on paper a very, very democrat-heavy area. But this county and Dems (aside Corrine Brown) historically haven't gotten along very well... My point is that I was with some Obama supporters earlier today and holding signs by a very busy intersection. While we had many Obama supporters honking at us and the like, we also a lot of people calling us names and calling obama a monster, muslim, terrorist, antichrist, baby killer, manchurian candidate, secret black panther, etc.

What does this all mean? I'm almost 29 years old, and would LOVE to see America at least attempt to confront its racial biases, and maybe the election of BO will help that. That said, given the racial history of this country, the sheer unprecendented nature of this entire campaign and the fact that Dems have totally blown the last two presidential elections (sorry, former registered Republican), I wouldn't assume anything is over. We should steel ourselves like this, so if the impossible happens, there won't be 1 million+ people in Chicago and elsewhere in the US commemorating the LA Riots by repeating it.

I hate to be such a party pooper, but even though Democratic-leaning groups have thus far appeared to be the significant majority of early voters, we won't know who won until the ballots are actually counted. In that sense, Nate, you blog is quite admirable and informative, but surveys and exit polling can be wrong (Florida, 2000, anybody?) Call, write, email, canvass, etc. But do NOT assume that this thing is over. As Obama and Biden said on the trail, the last few days will be the craziest/most negative. Just look at the illegal alien aunt thing. I refuse to believe the Bush & Co. officials @ the DOJ/ICE didn't authorize the leak of such potentially damaging info...

Polls and projects have been wrong in the past, and (God forbid) might be again in two days. What you all and I can simply do is our best, get out the message/vote, and (if you are of faith) pray for the best.

I look forward to hearing back here, or @ my blog...

Michael said...

oldfatguy..
If I am not mistaken George W. Bush has been in the White House the past 8 years.

You guys living in the past complaining Bush 'stole' the election need to let it go. It was SOOOOOO 8 years ago...

Research: NEW MEXICO 2000 ELECTION
Bush up 4 votes with 100% precincts in and out of nowhere they found 1 more box of votes that gave Gore the state.

Do you hear me bitching about it? NO.

A Conservatively Moderate Liberal said...

I've been following this blog for quite some time. As a minority former-registered-Republican-now-registered-Independent supporting Obama, I must caution you to be careful about landslides and things like that. Could Obama pick up 300, or 350+ EVs? Perhaps. But although my heart of hearts wishes this election to be a 50-state blowout, I highly doubt that will happen.

But again, speaking as a person of color (and someone once on the other side of the aisle), I can say with absolute conviction that this race is not over until it's over. Call it the Bradley Effect, the neverending feuds re: Obama and his family/faith/color/illegal alien aunt/political stances, etc. Given the fact that many people are still voting, and sometimes tend to lie to the pollster (e.g., New Hampshire) I frankly won't even begin pondering celebrating until I see hard returns Tuesday evening.

No disrespect, Nate, or any of the other good people here, but (for example) I live in Duval County, FL, which is on paper a very, very democrat-heavy area. But this county and Dems (aside Corrine Brown) historically haven't gotten along very well... My point is that I was with some Obama supporters earlier today and holding signs by a very busy intersection. While we had many Obama supporters honking at us and the like, we also a lot of people calling us names and calling obama a monster, muslim, terrorist, antichrist, baby killer, manchurian candidate, secret black panther, etc.

What does this all mean? I'm almost 29 years old, and would LOVE to see America at least attempt to confront its racial biases, and maybe the election of BO will help that. That said, given the racial history of this country, the sheer unprecendented nature of this entire campaign and the fact that Dems have totally blown the last two presidential elections (sorry, former registered Republican), I wouldn't assume anything is over. We should steel ourselves like this, so if the impossible happens, there won't be 1 million+ people in Chicago and elsewhere in the US commemorating the LA Riots by repeating it.

I hate to be such a party pooper, but even though Democratic-leaning groups have thus far appeared to be the significant majority of early voters, we won't know who won until the ballots are actually counted. In that sense, Nate, you blog is quite admirable and informative, but surveys and exit polling can be wrong (Florida, 2000, anybody?) Call, write, email, canvass, etc. But do NOT assume that this thing is over. As Obama and Biden said on the trail, the last few days will be the craziest/most negative. Just look at the illegal alien aunt thing. I refuse to believe the Bush & Co. officials @ the DOJ/ICE didn't authorize the leak of such potentially damaging info...

Polls and projects have been wrong in the past, and (God forbid) might be again in two days. What you all and I can simply do is our best, get out the message/vote, and (if you are of faith) pray for the best.

I look forward to hearing back here, or @ my blog...

Jay said...

Gosh, I can't imagine why the Obama campaign might not be trying to hustle Michael to the polls. What could possibly explain this oversight? Anyone? Anyone?

Deadpixel said...

"tito be careful! if you argue too much you'll get banned!"

LOL

Ain't that the truth brother...

BW said...

Hm.


Well, my theory of PeteKent's October surprise being that he got off the McCain bandwagon's been officially shot to hell...

WV: dercalad. I got nothing...e

broberts said...

PA tracker Morningcall 0+7 (-1) 52-45. So it looks like McC is picking up undecided.

David said...

Ah, I see now that michael was trolling.

For anyone who might have any concern about his comments - both campaigns keep pretty comprehensive databases about voters, specifically so they don't waste too much time on unpersuadables - both on the Republican side and Democratic.

I haven't been contacted by McCain, but I have been called by the Obama campaign.

Oh, and I've gotten that call about "your car warranty is expiring!"

N45 said...

Alex S wrote:
[quote] Our judgement on what state is "in play" has been clouded by Obama's effort to turn bloody red states like Indiana and North Carolina blue. But honestly, any state that is favoring a candidate by around 7 pts 3 days before the election is NOT IN PLAY! Look at the states that are in play, Missouri and Indiana. You see a confusing pattern of blue, red and tied polls. Look at Pennsylvania and you see nothing but blue. [/quote]

Alex, if you go by this criteria the entire country is safe obama and not in play. If you look at the states that are tossup now, you have to assume that McCain will win them all because if he doesn't the election is over.

The point is trying to find a scenario where McCain actually wins it and going through Pennsylvania is as good as any other option. I don't think he can make up a 7 point deficit in 3 days, but i don't think he can win the election period.

Dave Brodbeck said...

@broberts yeah but with O > 52 there are no worries I think.

Mason said...

Who cares what national polls say.
IN 2000 BUSH WAS UP 3-5 POINTS IN ALMOST EVERY POLL ON NOVEMBER 2......


I still have not been able to figure out why people lie about things like this

Jen said...

"But why would anybody wait until election day to vote if early voting and voting by mail is possible? Seems completely screwball to me. Is it tradition?"

__________________________________

I am a permanent absentee voter but I wait until election day to turn it in. My husband and I fill out our ballots the night before and walk it in to the polling place. I just do not trust the mail with something as important as my vote, or my mortgage payment. That gets walked into the bank and I get a receipt. I guess I am paranoid.

Ayger. What I feel when I am stuffed up and I listen to Fox news.

MrInsight22 said...

1. PPP is a Democratic-affiliated pollster who was off in their own state (NC) in the primaries, predicting at the end that Obama would only win it by a few points.

2. On November 1, 2004, the electoral-vote.com map based on the most recent polls showed Kerry winning FL and OH just like the exit polls did on election day.

3. In the last week of October 2000, Gallup showed Dubya ahead by 13 points (according to a pollster.com article). About 10 days later, Gore won the popular vote by 500,000 votes.

Jay said...

Research: NEW MEXICO 2000 ELECTION
Bush up 4 votes with 100% precincts in and out of nowhere they found 1 more box of votes that gave Gore the state.


Hilarious. Are you actually claiming that a four vote lead is meaningful in any sense, or that "100% reporting" means that EVERY SINGLE PRECINCT is in?

Here's something to chew on: Consider a state with a mere 201 precincts. 200 of them have reported. Rounding to the nearest whole number, what does that equal?

Again, I am shocked -- shocked!! -- that the Obama campaign is not trying to get you to the polls post haste. They are doomed! DOOOOOOOMED!

woonsgru: no idea what it means, but it's too funny not to post

MATT J. H. said...

Start the MATTREPORT.COM.
Good luck topping the 6.9 billion hits to Drudge this past year.


Of course Drudge gets a lot of visitors. Wingnuts only visit "Approved" internet/TV/Magazine sites. By "Approved" I mean information that insures their retarded world view doesn't get exposed to reality.

Hannity/Limbaugh/Drudge/ all represent a hiding place for wingnuts to get informed so they don't get exposed to actual news and information which might enlighten their under-developed minds and allow them to question the bullshit they have been taught their entire lives.

Don't worry though, cultural ignorance is on the way out. The election of President Obama will let the world know America has opened its eyes, at least for now.

KQuark said...

Seriously folks we keep on talking about PA in play because that was a McCain narrative to save his election. He gained a little ground there but not at the expense of Obama's lead. Obama has had a 51-53 point top number in PA for 4 weeks. Furthermore McCain never polled in the margin of error once. All this consternation is making me chuckle.

St. Nick said...

This election will be

the end of John McCain.

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhpO9xG2MY

Adam said...

"1. PPP is a Democratic-affiliated pollster who was off in their own state (NC) in the primaries, predicting at the end that Obama would only win it by a few points."

So in other words, PPP vastly underestimates Obama support? Awesome!

"2. On November 1, 2004, the electoral-vote.com map based on the most recent polls showed Kerry winning FL and OH just like the exit polls did on election day."

And RCP and many other sites had Bush roughly +1.5-+2, virtually exactly where he ended up. Keep assuming weak Kerry states where he was +1 and barely lost correspond to states where Obama is +6-+9 if you want. It'll make Tuesday all the more bitter for you.

"3. In the last week of October 2000, Gallup showed Dubya ahead by 13 points (according to a pollster.com article). About 10 days later, Gore won the popular vote by 500,000 votes."

And a few days after that, the same tracker that had Gore +13 had Bush +10. That was a notoriously bad tracker that would have been instantly invalidated on a site like this. The vast majority of polls had the 2000 election almost dead even, which it turned out to be.

Keep grasping for straws, though! It's hilarious! You know in your heart these numbers aren't wrong but you keep trying to argue it anyway. I'm laughing my ass off. More please!

FGF said...

Tomorrow you will be quoted as that liberal pollster who said Pennsylvania is in play. Thanks Nate.

other Michael said...

@ matt j h:

Don't worry though, cultural ignorance is on the way out. The election of President Obama will let the world know America has opened its eyes, at least for now.


Alas, the only thing I don't like about BHO is that he's religious. Superstition and opened eyes don't go together.

wv tilmonar: What got Bill in trouble.

Adam said...

"Good luck topping the 6.9 billion hits to Drudge this past year."

Actually, HuffingtonPost and Politico have both passed Drudge in the past few months in unique viewers. Drudge blatantly pads his total viewer numbers by auto-refreshing his site every couple minutes. His blatant partisanship is turning off much of his influence, and many articles have been written in the past couple weeks ago the "fall of Drudge". Keep clinging to your sites though.

PharmD said...

Pat Bucanan just mention on HardBall that the Zogby poll might show mccain with a +1 national lead....

Jmaan33 said...

Nate: There is absolutely no questions that you have provided many people some pretty excellent information. Even helped us sleep so much better at night. But your "PA in play" comment" was a bit of a sellout to the msm on your part. Hey nobody is perfect. But a 98 to 2 shot, where I come from, is called a "longshot". Keep it real bro.

Jen said...

"It's the fourth quarter, and you're trailing 28-14. You've just scored a touchdown with one minute left on the clock. Should you kick the extra point, or go for the two-point conversion?"

___________________________________

You so do not go for the 2 point conversion. That would be putting all your eggs in Pennsylvannia. Never mind.

Bagicals- What Carville said Hillary had and Obama lacked.

MrInsight22 said...

The most erroneous pollster in 1996was CBS/NYT which had Dole behind by 13 but he lost by 8.

In 2000, Zogby was the only pollster to predict a Gore popular vote win. But in 2004, Zogby erroneously predicted a Kerry win via OH and FL. TIPP was most accurate in 2004 wth Pew and Rasmussen next best.

slicknickshady said...

lol @ pat buchanon if he said that. he's a republican slappy.

musing85 said...

It's the subjunctive. And it's a mood, not a tense.

< /grammar police>

boquita said...

According to Morning Call, on Nov 2:

Obama 52, McCain 45.

http://www.mcall.com/all-pres-widgetlist,0,3165119.htmlstory

CloudyFuture said...

PharmD said...
Pat Bucanan just mention on HardBall that the Zogby poll might show mccain with a +1 national lead....
++++++++++++++
actually he was talking about what happened yesterday when zogby "leaked" its one day poll of about 400 people to drudge site (or what ever its called) and mentioned he couldnt wait to see the "final" numbers.....

ira said...

Nate,

You wrote that one scenario for an Obama win is to “Win Pennsylvania and ANY ONE of Colorado, Virginia, Ohio, or Nevada* …. (* Nevada produces a 269-269 tie, which would probably be resolved for Obama in the House of Represenatives.)"


But, if Obama obtains a 269-269 electoral tie by that scenario, then he will have only won 22 states to McCain’s 28. In that case the House of Representatives would almost certainly resolve the tie for McCain, not Obama. In the case of voting to break electoral ties, each state gets only ONE VOTE.

Sedi said...

"Seriously folks we keep on talking about PA in play because that was a McCain narrative to save his election."

After being totally astonished about why anyone thinks that PA is in play, I think this comes closest: people need something to talk/boast/fret about. The outcome of the election isn't particularly in doubt, but that's a boring thing to believe, since it takes away any suspense and anxiety. Neither campaign wants voters to think that the race is over, and the media obviously doesn't want it to be over. If you use reason and accept that PA isn't in play, this election becomes far less interesting electorally.

Adam said...

Mrinsight22,

Keep spinning! Keep spinning! 27% of Americans have already voted and Obama has a 16-point lead among them. It's past the point where anything you say has any impact. You're going to lose, and lose massively. No specious arguments you can make based on flimsy evidence have any relevance anymore.

But I really hope you keep making them, for they greatly amuse me.

Vinny said...

I'm going to step in here...

For the guy that quoted electoral-vote.com...

November 1st this year = October 30th in 2004. Not really THAT relevant, but just saying.

Now, EV.com had 2 models. One was to use the most recent poll no matter what. The other was the average of all non-partisans in the last week (the one they use now). The map you are looking at is the flawed "1st" model.

Another point, Florida and Ohio were "barely Kerry", in the strictest definition of the word. +1 and +2 respectively, much less than Obama's +4 in Florida, or +6(which is weak kerry, not barely kerry) in Ohio.

Therefore, your logic is flawed.

sfergus483 said...

That was a repeat of Hardball earlier today when he mentioned last night's Zogby/Drudge 1 pt thing

Antony said...

Nate, I love you, but this is the lamest shit I've heard since Clinton trying to parse the meaning of "is."

slicknickshady said...

I'll take those numbers anyday.

Dave Brodbeck said...

Well, I am off to bed, seems that my bet will not be taken, no surprise there.

Vinny said...

Also, if Drudge isn't referring to Zogby today:

1) Obama improved
2) Obama stayed the same
3) Reuters got pissed and told him to cut his crap, or they're not paying his sorry ass.

Mason said...

Vinny-
MrInsight's logic is always flawed.

SCIndie said...

@ira

You've got it wrong. It isn't one per state won that decides the vote in the case of a tie, its one vote from each state's house of representatives delegations (i.e., all of MA's reps would have 1 vote, all of CA's reps would have 1 vote, etc. In this scenario (especially with it being the INCOMING House), Obama would almost certainly win.

Sreenu said...

@ira

In case of a 269-269 tie the resolution is not based on how many states each Presidential candidate won but is done in the House of Representatives where each state delegation gets one vote..since Democrats have a majority of seats in 28 out of the 50 state delegations this will resolve in favor of Obama.

Redshift said...

Brian:
That is funny, but sad that they are trying crap like that. No doubt they were freepers. I saw a couple of times on their stupid site that they were trying to say that Ayers was the ghost writer. Idiots!!!!!!

According to TPM, it was Congressman Chris Cannon of Utah!

I can't improve on Josh's title for the item, "Gettin' Sad."

KIC said...

newsinOH said...

Absolutely insane, but apparently true:

Dr Peter Millican, a philosophy don at Hertford College, Oxford, has devised a computer software program that can detect when works are by the same author by comparing favourite words and phrases.

He was contacted last weekend and offered $10,000 (£6,200) to assess alleged similarities between Obama’s bestseller, Dreams from My Father, and Fugitive Days, a memoir by William Ayers.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5063279.ece

______

Oh fer Gawd's sake. Apparently there are still some folks with money in the bank and a job if they want to spend it on this twaddle.

wv:cimpod the fake ipod that broadcasts teh fake voices in the head that wants to do this

Mason said...

vinny said...
Also, if Drudge isn't referring to Zogby today:

1) Obama improved
2) Obama stayed the same
3) Reuters got pissed and told him to cut his crap, or they're not paying his sorry ass.


I doubt it's three. He's not stupid enough to do something actionable like that, right?

wv: finai - What McCain is.

PharmD said...

sfergus483 and slicknickshady thanks for the correction

Jen said...

Anyone else think Michael will not be posting on November 5, or if he does "ACORN" will be featured prominently.

I will relish typing out "scoreboard" that day.

Detillys. Detillys actually think McCain has a chance. That is just tilly.

cj_ said...

"Has anyway done predictions for voter suppression scenarios state by state and how they might affect races?"

I have, in fact. I wrote a Python script using the latest state trackers to simulate possible scenarios where voter fraud occurs. In my model, a % of votes is moved directly from DEM to GOP. For undecideds, I wasn't sure what to do, so I made a random portion of them split between DEM, GOP and not showing up. This model is not as sophisticated as the one Nate has, but should give you an idea how the effect of cheating would have:

DieBold MoE ObamaWin% LikelyEVs
0% 3% 100.00% O=367, M=171
1% 3% 100.00% O=353, M=185
2% 3% 99.90% O=338, M=200
3% 3% 98.07% O=311, M=227
4% 3% 77.55% O=291, M=247
5% 3% 35.06% O=264, M=274
6% 3% 5.53% O=221, M=317

(higher poll fluctuation)
1% 7% 99.85% O=349, M=189
2% 7% 98.72% O=326, M=212
3% 7% 91.58% O=302, M=236
4% 7% 70.51% O=284, M=254
5% 7% 37.58% O=267, M=271
6% 7% 12.43% O=233, M=305

As you can see, they would need to have upwards of 5% straight voter fraud *in all key states* to even have better than a 50/50 chance of winning. Relax!

Mason said...

I will relish typing out "scoreboard" that day.

Hopefully no one on the Blue team will make like Furcal and throw this thing away.

Vinny said...

What EV.com showed at this point in 2004, with the good model:

Kerry 248
Bush 283
Tied 7 (Iowa)

Wrong results = Hawaii, when 1 crappy poll showed it barely Bush (Hawaii was very underpolled).

And the tie went to Bush.

cj_ said...

PS the left-hand column (labeled "DieBold") is the percentage of votes my model moved from Democrat to GOP. I ran the simulation for each scenario ~1 million times.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

My wife thinks Obama is going to be on Saturday Night Live on Monday. If you catch the add, it says, there's no telling who will show up. He was supposed to be on it before the election. I think this will be it.

The Game said...

LOL cling to Zogby do you McLame fans:

11/02

O: 49.5
M: 43.8

MATT J. H. said...

After being totally astonished about why anyone thinks that PA is in play, I think this comes closest: people need something to talk/boast/fret about. The outcome of the election isn't particularly in doubt, but that's a boring thing to believe, since it takes away any suspense and anxiety

Exactly. McCain wants a narrative about it being winnable and Obama wants a little fear in his supporters to keep them energized. But lets be honest. Nate has the guy at 4% to win the election. Charlie Cook thinks McCain needs a miracle. The tracking polls are trending up for Obama. Obama is destroying McCain in early voting. Obama has the best ground game in the history of politics.

Everyone is waiting for the coronation Tuesday night. When was the last time people waited in line for 3-6 hours in EARLY VOTING for a candidate?

The historical turnout on Tuesday isn't for McCain. It's for History. It's over folks and based on early voting, it may be ugly.

chopperjc said...

Zogby National tracking
O49.5
M43.8

Nicholas Warino said...

New Zogby: Obama 49.5%, McCain 43.8%

Obama won last night 52-42.

FakeVirginian said...

Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby Poll: One Day Is Not A Trend: Obama Holds His Lead

Obama 49.5%, McCain 43.8%

I like the headline...lol

WV: stakin - Hopefully obama will be stakin them EV's.

theliberalcrab said...

Congrats NATE - Zogby called you out today..apparently you are getting under his skin..keep it up

Voice of Reason said...

OldFatGuy: You can vote early in Virginia if you have a good excuse, and if you aren't going to be in the county during voting hours on Tuesday, that's a good enough excuse. I just voted early because I thought I might have to fly back to Arkansas for a funeral. Now it looks like I won't, thank God.

Early polling place is on Sycolin Road outside the Leesburg beltway, marked by small white VOTE signs. And I can't believe I'm posting local Loudoun County voting information on an international website.

And if you think John McCain controls the major league football schedule, you're giving him WAY too much credit.

madamerica said...

Zogby went from 5.0 to 5.7. Apparently Obama-McCain margin was +10 on Saturday.

David said...

Zogby yesterday: Obama 49.1%, McCain 44.1%

Zogby today:

UTICA, New York -- After a strong day of polling for Republican presidential candidate John McCain on Friday, Democrat Barack Obama experienced a strong single day of polling on Saturday, retaining a 5.7 point advantage that is right at the edge of the margin of error of the Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby daily tracking poll. The race has remained remarkably stable down the stretch, this three-day rolling average poll shows.

Pollster John Zogby: "Obama has consolidated his lead over McCain. His single day lead today was back to 52%-42%. He leads by 10 among independents and has solidified his base. He leads among Hispanics by38 points, African Americans by 88, 18-24 year olds by 36, 18-29 year olds by 25, 25-34 year olds by 16, women by 8, and men by 3. He has a 17 point lead among those who have already voted, 22 by those who have registered to vote in the past 6 months, Moderates by 34, Catholics by 10. He even receives 21% support among Conservatives.

"So what happened to give McCain a one-point lead in the one-day polling on Friday? It was a day of consolidation for him, too. He had been losing support among key groups and began to regain some of his own base. He now leads by 21 points among NASCAR fans, 9 among investors, 6 among voters in armed forces households, and 2 among voters over 65 years old.

"Remember, as I said yesterday, one day does not make a trend. This is a three-day rolling average and no changes have been tectonic. A special note to blogger friends: calm it down. Lay off the cable television noise and look at your baseball cards in your spare time. It is better for your (and everyone else's) health."


Today's word verification: "Defated" - this word is good news.... FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

theliberalcrab said...

per zogby:
"A special note to blogger friends: calm it down. Lay off the cable television noise and look at your baseball cards in your spare time. It is better for your (and everyone else's) health.""

Jen said...

"Pat Bucanan just mention on HardBall that the Zogby poll might show mccain with a +1 national lead...."

___________________________________

It might have me with a 3 point lead. Might is not a very strong word. Plus, it is Zogby . I learned not to trust that guy when he broke my heart in 04.

Reedn. What this country is definitely not doing.

chopperjc said...

UTICA, New York -- After a strong day of polling for Republican presidential candidate John McCain on Friday, Democrat Barack Obama experienced a strong single day of polling on Saturday, retaining a 5.7 point advantage that is right at the edge of the margin of error of the Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby daily tracking poll. The race has remained remarkably stable down the stretch, this three-day rolling average poll shows.

Pollster John Zogby: "Obama has consolidated his lead over McCain. His single day lead today was back to 52%-42%. He leads by 10 among independents and has solidified his base. He leads among Hispanics by38 points, African Americans by 88, 18-24 year olds by 36, 18-29 year olds by 25, 25-34 year olds by 16, women by 8, and men by 3. He has a 17 point lead among those who have already voted, 22 by those who have registered to vote in the past 6 months, Moderates by 34, Catholics by 10. He even receives 21% support among Conservatives.

"So what happened to give McCain a one-point lead in the one-day polling on Friday? It was a day of consolidation for him, too. He had been losing support among key groups and began to regain some of his own base. He now leads by 21 points among NASCAR fans, 9 among investors, 6 among voters in armed forces households, and 2 among voters over 65 years old.

"Remember, as I said yesterday, one day does not make a trend. This is a three-day rolling average and no changes have been tectonic. A special note to blogger friends: calm it down. Lay off the cable television noise and look at your baseball cards in your spare time. It is better for your (and everyone else's) health."

obsessed said...

musing85 said...
It's the subjunctive. And it's a mood, not a tense.

< /grammar police>


Okay ... I'm obsessed with Spanish and I've memorized the 7+7+1 categories of verbs, with the main seven being Present, Imperfect, Preterite, Future, Conditional, Subjunctive, and Past Subjunctive. Are these all "moods" or is only the subjunctive a mood? And if so, what's the technical difference between a tense and mood?

Subjunctive is a totally bizarre and fascinating aspect of Spanish. At first it makes little sense, but native speakers, even at the age or 4 or 5, absolutely never confuse it. In English, this is subjunctive, right?

"Would that McCain lose by the largest margin in history."

But how does it apply to Nate's original statement?