UPDATED, 9:15 PM Central
According to data just released by the Minnesota Secretary of State, Al Franken has gained a net of 43 votes on the first day of that state's recount process. Norm Coleman had a lead of 215 voters over Franken in Minnesota's certified, pre-recount tally; that margin is now 172 votes.
Minnesota reports that it has thus far re-counted 15.49 percent of its ballots. If the first day's results are indicative of the pace that the candidates will maintain throughout the recount process, Franken would gain a net of 278 votes over Coleman, giving him a narrow victory. For any number of reasons, however, the results reported thus far may not be indicative of future trends.
Although Franken gained ground relative to Coleman, in actuality both candidates have fewer votes than they began the day with. This is because of the "challenge" process in which representatives of either candidate may challenge any ballot for any reason, which will subsequently be reviewed one at a time by Minnesota's canvassing board in December. Challenges can occur to ballots that had previously been deemed to be legal, in which case those votes will be deducted from the opponent's total. Coleman has thus far challenged 115 ballots and Franken 106. However, based on local reports, many or perhaps most of the challenges are frivolous, and are unlikely to be upheld upon review. Thus, the candidate who has challenged fewer ballots probably stands to gain ground once such challenges are adjudicated.
Of Franken's net 43-vote gain, a net of 27 of those votes came from just two towns in Saint Louis County, Ely and Eveleth. These Northern villages, characteristically highly Democratic, use an older type of vote scanning technology called the Optech IIIP Eagle which is less reliable and requires use of an alternate ballot design. The Star Tribune reports, however, that about half the Saint Louis County precincts with the Eagle machines have already had their votes re-counted. Thus, it would be dangerous to extrapolate results from these precincts (and therefore to some extent Franken's overall gain today) to the county or statewide levels.
On the other hand, the precincts that were re-counted today were slightly redder than average, having favored Coleman by an aggregate of 3.3 points during the initial count. No votes have yet been re-counted in Minneapolis (out of more than 200,000 cast), although about 43,000 have been recounted in St. Paul (out of around 140,000 cast on Election Day). Another city which has not yet reported any results is Duluth, traditionally a Democratic stronghold.
The Star Tribune reports slightly different results, with Franken having gained a net of 41 votes rather than 43, 18 percent of ballots re-counted rather than 15.5, and higher numbers of challenged ballots for both candidates.
11.19.2008
[UPDATED] On First Day of Recount, Franken Gains Net of 43 Votes on Coleman
by Nate Silver @ 9:08 PM
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94 comments
go al franken
you're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you
First?
This is great news-- for Stuart Smalley!
@ Bob X
Minus the first stuff, great minds think alike
yes. finally some results after all these days (it seems like months) of waiting! let's hope the process continues in a respectable manner!
This is so exciting!!!
Coises, foiled again.
Does Minnesota have any legal provision for an exact tie? I know, in practice a tie means that the lawyers argue until one piece or another is allowed or disallowed to break the tie, but is there a last-resort coin-toss rule or whatever? That would be too cool.
Nate, Where did you come up with +43 from that page?
Having seen that Lizard People ballot, it reminds me of a story my dad told.
He always voted but did not take it seriously. One year, for mayor, he voted for Mickey Mouse, since he disliked one candidate and hated the other.
Margin of victory was about 10 votes. There were about 50 people in town (out of 20,000 voters) that voted for some whacky write-in candidate. The surprise candidate won, and property taxes went up, annoying everyone. Since then, my dad always voted seriously, even if he has to hold his nose while doing so.
Here is the page:
http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html
It makes tracking the recount easy - and one can analyze the results by precint as they ar eposted to see WHERE the votes are coming from.
So far Franken has GAINED votes in 18 COUNTIES - only 7 of which he WON
Coleman haas GAINED votes in 10 COUNTIES - 9 of which he WON.
The trend looks good for Franken as he is winning more votes i counties he did not even carry - and his best counties are yet to come.
Very interesting--I hope Franken wins :) Still very unsure.
On another note, turnout in the GA runoff increased a little to over 20,000 votes Tuesday, still way behind the presidential numbers but improving from Monday's 13,000. We will see.....
Hmm. I think this is a good sign, because we would expect Al to do better in Al-voting areas, right?
the starf tribune has 18% of the vote counted. at this rate they actually might finish counting in our lifetime
syr93 - Bill Clinton came by Atlanta this afternoon for a Martin rally; perhaps the numbers will be up tomorrow? (or does Atlanta not do early voting this week? I forget).
Note that precincts counted today were those favorable to Coleman. On average, he won them 52-48 on 11/4.
So yes, Al had a pretty good day.
In answer to guayzimi:
Before the recount, the vote in the recounted precincts was Coleman 195708, Franken 180950, for a Coleman lead of 14758
After the recount, the results were
Coleman 195638, Franken 180923, for a Coleman lead of 14715
So Coleman's lead has been cut by 43 votes. In other words, Franken gained 43 votes.
The best part of this is that the liberal media forced Pawlenty to admit that the recount process was going great and that he expected the results to be spot on.
Way to go, liberal media!
Terry
Hey BobX
In the event of an exact tie, the winner is determined by a coin toss. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
I think Nate might be worried that a large chunk of the votes gained today were because of errors on the old scan machines that aren't used anywhere else anymore. In which case, Franken will have a hard time keeping up the vote gains he needs on the newer better vote counting machines.
F's gain will probably be more than 43, once the challenges are resolved. On the other hand, 28 of that gain comes from a special case which won't extrapolate to the rest of the state, just to another 20 or so in St. Louis Co. So the error bars around a reasonable extrapolation easily include a win for either. This is better than I was expecting, but in itself doesn't explain why Intrade puts odds somewhat on F.
/mbw
The could avoid the coin toss if they looked at the election as they do, say golf's Ryder Cup -- i.e. you have to defeat the incumbent by at least one to win the seat of him/her.
Not saying it's any fairer, but it seems a little more satisfactory than leaving it purely to chance.
Odds are, though, if it's *that* close, there will be court challenges up the wazoo and it will be an age before a coin toss is called for.
A question, possibly without a clear answer:
If the result is extremely close (10 votes or less), there is lots of litigation going on, the Senate is in a total uproar, and the Senate decides to ask MN to have a revote (as they did in the 1974 NH Senate race) -
would it just be Franken and Coleman, or would the other three candidates be on the ballot?
This could involve Federal law (if any precedent) as well as MN law, as well as any other previous cases elsewhere.
In 1975, when the Senate convened, they allowed the retiring GOP Senator stay on until the new election. So in this scenario, Coleman would continue as Senator - and that could be a really uncomfortable spot for him as he makes one side or the other really unhappy.
Interesting that both candidates _lost_ votes. Coleman just lost more. (Coleman lost 70, Franken only 27). However, more votes are being challenged. Franken is challenging 115 and Coleman is challenging 106. Admittedly, some of the votes challenged by both sides could be for an 'other' candidate. Still, the numbers for these precincts may change again before it's done. (Numbers are from the csv file available on the page Nate linked to. I think I calculated correctly but if you tell me my numbers are wrong, I'll prolly say, "You're right")
If you want to extrapolate roughly from this data, note that over half of Franken's gain came from one small area of St. Louis County (Duluth and north) where they used older "Eagle" machines. Precincts with those machines are said to be half-done.
So give Franken another 25 from that area. Apart from that, he netted 18 votes from 18% of the state counted, in areas that broke ever-so-slightly for Coleman.
So the blunt extrapolation narrows the gap of 172 (174?) further by 25 + 82 = 107 votes, leaving a gap of 65. Maybe the Franken-favorableness of other counties gets that down to 50.
That leaves the challenge differential factor. From the MPR ballot-judge feature, those could be all over the map, and dwarf the "50".
WV: "cheatedr" Uh, I'll let this one pass :-)
Apparently Minnesota decides ties with a coin-toss. At least, that's what I was told by a friend who is there to help with the recount.
As far as challenges go: If I were a Franken operative, I'd mount as many challenges to likely Coleman ballots as possible, because Coleman is likely to mount a zillion challenges, whether they have merit or not.
I've been through a lot of these close elections on a more local level... If nothing else, it is important to mount as stiff a challenge campaign as your opponent if only to achieve some parity. If both parties are going at it hammer & tongs, election officials are more likely to either go easier on both sides or be equally tough on both sides. If one side doesn't hold up their end, they usually suffer.
But of course, the most important thing is that all legit ballots get counted, whatever the outcome. Just saying that Franken should stick up for himself.
Nate, what do you make of the gap between Coleman initiated ballot challenges and Franken initated challenges. Do you know if history shows whether those tend to be resolved against the challenger or in favor? I've been mulling over a theory that maybe it's a good sign for Franken that Coleman's reps are challenging more ballots. We have the appearance of a 174 vote gap between the two candidates rights now, but only becasue all the challenged ballots are set aside temporarily. Once all those challenges are ultimately resolved, I'm thinking the candidate with more challenges against him has better odds of coming out of the final canvassing board deliberations with a net gain in votes. I'd love to see you run the odds on that one...
To whoever asked, yes, Minnesota does have a statute regarding what happens if there is an exact tie. It's that the winner is decided by a flip of a coin. As far as I know, it's never happened in a state-wide race. But, it has happened in small town races.
BTW, the bigger news may be that the Ramsey County District Court ordered election officials to turn over to Frankin the names and addresses of absentee voters whose votes were thrown out and the reason why they weren't counted. It only applies in Ramsey County. But, it could open up a whole new category of ballots to be examined. The state canvassing board will decide whether to count any absentee ballots. (All the court did was to say the information is public information.)
Colmean?
All of Mpls is still out, so that gives Franken another chance for some "disproportional" results like he had in St. Louis County. There's still a long way to go yet.
This is incredibly good news for Franken.
Demographically and geographically (Hennepin for example) these are not the places people expected Franken to pick up a percentage of the 25,000 undercounted vote. To me, this is really bad news for Coleman.
Minnesota Public Radio has a page full of images of challenged ballots. Plus you get to play election judge..
Or just cast your vote for Lizard People.
If there is an exact tie, the winner is chosen by "lots." That could be a coin toss, drawing a card from a deck, or drawing straws. Its in the MN constitution.
This all sounds great but the fact remains Chambliss will win the nomination here in GA. They are unloading a barrage of phone calls and pushing for early voting or absentee ballot. The phone calls are getting nastier as the campaign progresses (i.e. tax-hiking over-spending liberals, etc.). Chambliss is out numbering Martin in TV ads 4 to 1 in almost all the cable and network news and with all these rough necks and evangelical voters, I don't see a prospect in this senate race for Martin. The sad part is that Martin's campaign is in disarray and they haven't done much so far and DNC is no help either. The finally senate tally would be Dem 59 - 41 Rep.
Bob X and deadcousinted02:
An exact tie would be worth it just to see the headline the next day:
"Coleman Loses Coin Toss, Election"
The odds against a tie are huge.
Let's say (for the sake of argument) that the final vote will be a 250 vote margin one way or another.
That would make a tie a 1-501 chance.
The Star Tribune Site states that only 16% of the votes and 42% of the precincts in Saint Louis County have been recounted for a 24 vote net gain for Franken. If that rate holds up throughout the county - Franken will pick up quite a few more votes there. Am I missing something?
By the way, how is it that the fine people have a SENATOR that is as vile as Norm Coleman? I could not believe it.
Hey Al, when you get sworn in, wear the Stuart sweater. It sends a post-partisan message....
@KWRegan- Yeah, we're converging. I would estimate that the Coleman tilt of these recounted votes changes the extrapolation a little more than you do. Say to about a Coleman edge of 40, not 50. Obviously still within the error bars either way. Those absentees are really important, and tracking them down isn't free.
Just a hint.
https://secure.alfranken.com/page/contribute/EMDurbin08
BTW MoveOn will very shortly be doing some phoning to get foot-soldiers for Martin.
(mbw)
How about if Al wins by 1 vote? Can you imagine... Anyway he gets in, it's all good. Then we can win Georgia - 60 Senators on the Dem side. Well 59 1/2 (Lieberman.)
also: have you seen this LOL cat from 1905? Pretttttttttty weird.
Why are six counties not starting their recounts until December? Roughly 153,000 votes were cast in those six counties for either Coleman or Franken.
As a Franken volunteer overseeing the recount all day today in a large Metro county, I can tell you that the challenges that the Coleman folks are launching here are largely frivolous. There were four in a row raised by my counterpart at my table today, and in all cases the voter intent, which is the legal litmus test in MN, was clearly discernible. In fact, those challenges took place over ballots ALREADY manually recounted during a random hand recount in 200 odd precincts required by MN law. 3 out of 4 cases had a check mark or an x in the Franken oval, while the rest of the Senate race area was clean and blank. The 4th one is a bit more involved, but CLEARLY still an Franken vote, as ruled by 2 independent election judges on separate occasions now.
So, there you have it. IMHO most of the Coleman challenges that I witnesses are bogus and will not stand up in the review panel.
FWIW.
~Latte
This recount is great news... FOR LIZARD PEOPLE!!!
At this point in the 2000 election, George W. Bush was still a monkey. For the final result, see the Inauguration Ceremony, January 2001.
LIZARDS CAN DO IT TOO!!!
these numbers are just so much fun to break down. Yeah, we probably shouldn't generalize the results from St. Louis County to the rest of the state, but in addition to Duluth being out like Nate said, Hibbing and Virginia are still yet to be counted. I'm not sure if either uses the old Optechs, but with any luck we can count on their usually solid DFL voters to bring Al a few more votes.
As far as challenges go: If I were a Franken operative, I'd mount as many challenges to likely Coleman ballots as possible, because Coleman is likely to mount a zillion challenges, whether they have merit or not.
I think that is a bad strategy. If I were a judge on the ballots, the more frivolous challenges a side made, the less inclined I would be to give them the benefit of the doubt on a close decision.
I notice on the MPR site, Coleman’s people challenged two ballots with the same characteristics (one completely filled in oval and another with a small mark in it). In one, where Franken’s oval was completely filled in, they argued that the small dot in another oval indicated that the voter didn’t intend to vote for Franken. In the second, Barkley’s oval was completely filled in and there was a small mark in the Coleman oval. On this one, they argued that the voter meant to vote for Coleman!
Are all the challenges to ballots counted for one's opponent? Or, are there also challenges for ballots that were not counted for oneself? In other words, Nate reports that Coleman challenged 115 ballots--are these 115 votes for Franken that he's trying to keep out or are there also votes for himself that were not originally counted but that he's trying to get included?
Both.
Just because a ballot is "challenged" does NOT mean that it won't be counted. The state canvassing board will rule on every challenged ballot. (Consisting of two supreme court justices; two district court judges; and the secretary of state) Who knows what the reason for challenge is and how they will rule.
Colmean = Best Freudian slip EVER!!
The election judge can disallow any challenge as "frivolous." That pretty much end the possibility that anyone would challenge everything just to gum up the works.
The counties are individual jurisdictions and can administratively arrange things as they see fit. That includes the start date. But, ALL must turn in their results on Dec. 5th.
Thanks Hank. Thus, Nate's statement that "the candidate who has challenged fewer ballots probably stands to gain ground once such challenges are adjudicated" does not necessarily follow since a candidate could be challenging votes that were not counted for himself. I'm skeptical we can tell much of anything by the number of ballots challenged by the candidates.
Both sides apparently have their "yellow dog" voters. It doesn't matter how bad someone is, if he or she is your guy or gal, that's where your vote goes.
cross- you mean people who vote for Coleman who after Stevens is out is now "Most likely to be a convicted felon" instead of Franken, people who vote for Franken who had a carrear as a slightly vulgar comedian instead of Coleman, or voters of either persuasion who didn't throw up their hands in exasperation and vote for Dean Barkley. Or the LIZARD PEOPLE.
Nate!
Where's the interactive map!
Where's the analysis?
WHO IS GOING TO WIN THIS??? don't we have enough data?
10,000 coleman franken simulations??
charts??
come onnnnn!
Also, could the % difference between the Sec State & Star Tribune be something like ballot % vs precinct %. Because that would make sense.
You're the best, Nate. Thanks for reporting on this. Nobody, and I mean NO ONE else is on it.
Watch out for that polling genius Ziegler, Nate. He really knows what he's doing. (Not)
some sort of massive irregularity being uncovered in Carver County, a Coleman stronghold, where Coleman has lost 946 votes (out of his county total of 26,969) with the recount still less than half done there!!! Franken has lost 180 in Carver county. Net, Franken leads statewide by over 500 votes.
bleh.. you made me look. that was silly.
carver county had a total of 916 votes for Coleman and 509 for franken. there were no changes, and they are 100% finished recounting. but thanks for the fun moment there.
Saying that Franken has gained only 41 votes assumes that ALL of the ballots challenged by either side will eventually be thrown out by the canvassing board! The numbers of challenged ballots have already been deducted from each candidate's totals in the official running recounts.
In my opinion, it is more accurate to say that Franken has gained 64 votes. This is the outcome so far if we assume that all of the challenged ballots will eventually be REINSTATED. In this way, we are ignoring the effects on the recount totals caused by ballot contests and, therefore, any distortions in the results caused by differences in how the two sides choose to contest ballots (such as if one side is more "liberal" in how they choose to contest ballots).
If we assume that the same percentage of challenged ballots from both sides will eventually be reinstated, Franken does even better. This is because, at the moment, more previously-counted Franken ballots have been removed than previously-counted Coleman ballots.
Lets say that 75% of all challenged ballots will eventually be reinstated. Franken will "get back" 110 of the ballots Coleman challenged and Coleman will "get back" 92 of the ballots that Franken challenged.
In this scenario, Franken has already gained 81 votes. If this rate of vote gain were to continue for the remainder of the recount, Franken would gain more than double the number of votes he needs to surpass Coleman's count.
So far, so good!
Nate noted that there is no information about 3d party candidate results. That is because the recount piles are: Franken, Coleman, Other, Challenged. They aren't recounting the 3d party candidates.
My previous post is based on results posted by the Star Tribune.
I read these data as saying:
- Coleman gained 37 votes in the recount, but lost 123 votes through Franken ballot challenges, for a net loss of 86 votes.
- Franken gained 101 votes in the recount, but lost 146 votes through Coleman ballot challenges, for a net loss of 45 votes.
Please correct me if my reading of this is incorrect.
Jimmy Kimmel just called nate a wiener .
Go, Al
Mark Ludwick:
You're leaving out the fact that either campaign can challenge ballots that were previously NOT counted as well. According to http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2008/11/19_challenged_ballots/
some ballots (or at least 1 anyway) have been challenged by BOTH campaigns (both ovals were filled, so it was previously not counted).
Given that and the fact that the campaign reps could have vastly different "standards" for what to challenge, I think it is rather treacherous to try to guess what will happen with the challenged ballots.
It should be safe to assume that each candidate will "gain" some votes from the ballots they challenged. Trying to guess at what rate they will gain (and if one side will gain at a higher rate) is gonna be pretty tough.
Observing this from outside the US I must admit that this is finally a demonstration of the core principles of a representative democracy where every single vote (cast legally and in a clear enough way) must count...
wish the same principles had been applied in 2000 in Florida already to prevent the humiliation of democracy advocates around the globe and to spare us the last eight years of incompetence and bigotry!
One reason the Republicans are so desperate to keep Franken out is because he has advocated a number of times on his radio show for the repeal of Taft-Hartley. I believe he has every intention on making this an issue should the EFCA pass. The reason this scares the Republicans to death is because Taft-Hartley allows states to enact so-called "right to work" laws.
LIZARD PEOPLE/PALIN 2012!
Squirrel -
Assumptions are, of course, the source of inaccuracies in these projections. And all assumptions are, by definition, not true. But we are forced to make assumptions one way or the other, no matter how tough or treacherous it may be to do so, to make any guess as to the meaning of the data that have come in so far. If we quote the counts as listed in the Star Tribune, we are implicitly assuming that every challenged ballot will be thrown out. I find this assumption to be no more legitimate than the assumption that they will all be reinstated - or that 25% of them will be reinstated. And it is interesting to see the great impact that varying these assumptions has on our interpretation of the data.
down to 168 now (before noon Thursday)
I assume many of the challenges will ultimately go against the challenger (many objections seem a stretch). That should be good news for Franken, because Coleman's people are challenging a lot of votes in St. Louis County, which would have narrowed the overall gap considerably.
Nice to see Minnesota values voter intent. Good on ya!
BTW, thanks Don et al for the updated total. This is more addictive than March Madness!
So it went to 156. 21% in.
It looks like Coleman has challenged 210 and Franken has challenged 143. I guess this is good since Franken has challenged 1/3 less than Coleman according to what Nate said. Does this make sense? Let me know! I am curious if I have this right!
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/
@dcweatherboy,
It depends what the challenges are for. Is Coleman challenging the validity of ballots that had previously been counted for Franken? Or, is he challenging the failure to include ballots for him that had previously not been counted? The more of the former type of Coleman challenges, the better for Franken. The more of the latter, the better for Coleman. Without knowing more about the challenges, I don't think we can definitively say.
wv: rufert, the name of the new dog Obama promised his girls.
OleEmmy said... "If there is an exact tie, the winner is chosen by "lots." That could be a coin toss, drawing a card from a deck, or drawing straws. Its in the MN constitution."
Can we have a robed priest call upon the Urim and Thummim?
I'd love to see Franken win this on a coin-toss, just so I can twit the Republicans with how obviously this was "God's will", but it would be even better if we could have a ceremony with a lot of "thypedu" (theistic hype, mon Dieu!)
The Coleman campaign has increased the rate of their challenges, but most of the increase seems to be coming from Hennepin County. Maybe Coleman's people got worried about what they were seeing in Hennepin?
A squeaker Franken projected to lose by 38 votes
Total Already counted Uncounted
421,756 2,001,078
Odds of any change 0.051% 1,236 1,021
Odds of a net change due to recount 0.041% 994 821
Franken % of net change 58.4% 580 479
Coleman % of net change 41.6% 414 342
Franken vote 166 137
Current Franken deficit 175
Estimated Franken margin of loss -38
I probably made this more difficult than it needed to be, but here goes. I also don't know if my table will display correctly. I downloaded the Star Tribune’s numbers from yesterday. Given those results the odds of any change – either an addition or subtraction-is .055% (a change of 5.5 votes per 10,000 ballots cast).
One of the earlier posts points out that there is a known issue with a particular type of machine. I excluded the St. Louis county results on that basis, which reduces the estimated rate of change to .051%.
However, since there are changes in both directions, I based the net change for either candidate on the results. With St. Louis excluded, Coleman had a net of –87; Franken a net of –69. The net change is 20% lower than the estimate of any change.
Of the net change, Franken pulled 55.8% vs carrying 47.7% of the vote counted. Franken did better for the uncounted vote, carrying 50.3%. I gave Franken the same margin.
Carrying that out with the uncounted vote, Franken picks up 138 votes vs. a current deficit of 175. This estimate is very sensitive to assumptions, and the likelihood of any vote change varies widely between counties. The exclusion of St. Louis in total is extreme where yesterday’s count gave Franken +23 vs. +1 for Coleman. That lowered Franken’s ratio from 65% to 55%. The election is tied at a ratio of 60.7%.
Steve,
Don't forget about the challenged ballots. Coleman is challenging a lot more than Franken, and some say many of his challenges are frivolous. This is probably strategic on his part, and it's skewing the results so far.
Assume that Coleman says "Hey, that vote that was counted for Franken... that really shouldn't be counted for anyone." In this case, the number of Coleman ballot challenges goes up by one, and the number of votes for Franken in the recount goes down by one.
But assume that Coleman says "Hey, that vote that wasn't counted for anyone... that really should be counted as a vote for me." In this case, the number of Coleman ballot challenges goes up by one, but the number of votes for Coleman in the recount does not go up by one?
Why would they presuppose that the challenge will be successful, in its effect on the recount totals, in the first case but not in the second?
For the sake of being able to evaluate how Franken is doing, I'll continue to assume that all of the ballot challenges are of the type that question a previously-recorded vote for the opponent -- and that 25% of these challenges will be upheld. (Not that I believe that this is accurate - I just find these assumptions more likely to be true than the Star Tribune's assumptions). If correct, Franken has already gained 161 votes on Coleman (115 "actual" votes gained through the recount process, and a projected 46 more to be gained after the canvassing board makes all of their evaluations).
Go Al!
Nate,
I'm sure I'm not the first to wonder whether Coleman's purpose in challenging ballots (60 more than Franken as of 4:20 p.m. EDT) is intended to retain an artificially inflated de facto lead as long as possible, in the spirit of the "possession is nine-tenths of the law" principle, in the event of a favorable court ruling or other bizarre special-teams play down the line.
(That was sort of convoluted, but I think you got it.)
As of this comment, Coleman leads by 159 ballots with 30 percent of precincts and 22 percent of votes counted (unless I've got that backwards). If you remove all challenges, eliminating Coleman's consequent net gain of 60 votes, Franken is actually within 99 votes. Having closed the gap by nearly 60 percent already, Franken would seem well positioned to overtake Coleman.
In light of the now-widely-circulated claim that most challenges on both sides of the recount are frivolous, do you think you might be able to jury-rig a magical formula for intelligently guessing the number of such challenges actually likely to bear fruit? Or are there too many variables?
The notion in my ocean is that Coleman is desperately trying to preserve doubt. Would you mind setting your number-cruncher on a path of doubt-destruction?
Looks as though someone already did what I just asked, but I'm too statistically illiterate to know whether those formulae take into account the fact that the challenges are likely total garbage.
Steve, what of it? What do Franken's chances look like if we assume the challenges will yield a negligible net change (and therefore that Franken is actually within 99, rather than 159, votes)?
I know you guys would like to predict out who wins but let's admit it. No one knows at this point :) It's too close
Frankin is now leading at a rate of 2.83 votes per 1 pecentage of votes counted. If he continues at this pace, Franklin will have a net of 283 votes and will win. This is before any challenged votes are counted or absentee votes that are in dispute.
Hope it holds. Looks good.
short story: dcweatherboy has it right. there are two many unknowns to be confident in any prediction.
longer story: the numbers are sufficiently confusing to make my head hurt. hopefully the following summary is useful (from Star Trib numbers posted this morning)
Changes not attributable to challenges
Coleman 37
Franken 101
Total 138
Challenges by Coleman 146
Challenges by Franken 123
Total 269
Total change
Coleman 160
Franken 247
Total 407
what these numbers do tell us is that uncontested change is 1/3 of the total, and 2/3 of the change that has occurred is due to challenges. probable prediction #1: the recount itself will not resolve the election. it will be the resolution of the challenges that does that.
my understanding is that challenges are basically a free good. "Frivolous" would mean no chance whatsoever from the standpoint of either campaign. In pure economic terms, as a rep of either campaign, I ought to challenge any ballot that has even a 1% chance of being overturned. The problem with that approach is that it the challenger is likely to lose credibility.
Who knows what the optimal strategy is? The review board will know the incentive is to be aggressive with challenges, so the board is likely to have a somewhat skeptical posture. From the challenger's perspective, one's expectation going in is prevailing on less than 50%. A good outcome would be prevailing on less than half, and picking up some you don't expect to.
From this, it is possible to speculate (although some knowledge of how these review meetings go would help). As a general strategy, the challenger would want a mix of credible reasoned challenges, less credible ones that can leverage the credible ones, and then maybe some longshots (say in the 25% range) sounds about right.
There is also media strategy both before and after. As the leader, the Coleman campaign has a stronger incentive to reinforce the impression that Coleman continues to lead. Given how close this thing is, part of the argument to the review board will be to tread lightly and not reverse the results of the recount, while downplaying how much the results have been affected by the use of challenges. to put it another way, the Coleman campaign would have reason to adopt a more aggressive strategy than the Franken campaign, and both would be expected to use an aggressive, rather than limited challenge strategy.
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