2:13 CST: [Nate] That was pretty impressive. Obama was charming and assertive, and the campaign has a real knack for ceremony and staging (e.g. the phalanx of economic advisers standing behind Obama). The press corps is going to love him, at least for the first several months.
Any real news here? Not much -- although Obama more clearly articulated the need for an economic stimulus package than he had on the campaign trail. In spite of his protestations that we only have one president at a time, the first test of the strength of his mandate might be whether Congress can muscle a stimulus package through in the lame-duck session.
2:10 CST: [Sean] Obama blows off Candy Crowley's question about having seen new intelligence since he's gotten access.
2:09 CST: [Sean] Lynn Sweet and Obama joke about her injury (which apparently took place when she was running to his speech in Grant Park), then she asks about what kind of dog Obama's going to buy, which Presidents he's spoken to, and where his girls will go to school. Obama jokes he's only talked to "living" presidents, and it's not a "Nancy Reagan type seance situation." But has re-read Lincoln. Dog is very important, Obama says, a "major issue."
2:05 CST: [Sean] Question: Is it important to move especially quickly to announce Cabinet appointments? Obama: "move with all deliberate haste, emphasis on deliberate as well as haste." By the way, Nate is up close to the action, so it's me for now.
2:01 CST: [Sean] Question: Did you respond to Ahmadinejad's letter of congratulations, when will you send low level envoys to Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc. Obama: Iran's nuclear program is unacceptable; I'll review the letter and respond in due time. We only have one president at a time.
1:58 CST: [Sean] First question: what can any president do in the first 100 days to rebuild the economy? Obama: A president can do a lot. We need a stimulus package passed before or after inauguration. We need jobs, because hemorrhaging of jobs hurts consumer confidence and has enormous spillover effects. I'm confident a new president can have an enormous impact, that's why I ran.
1:55 CST: [Sean] Focuses soberly on the economy right out of the gate. Seems in clear command. Questions upcoming, but it's all economy, all specifics.
1:47 CST: [Nate] I wonder if Obama will have one of those presumptuously arrogant President-Elect seals at the podium.
1:40 CST: [Sean] Nate and I will be reporting live from the press conference at the Hilton on Michigan Ave in Chicago. Brett is somewhere running around taking pictures, the scamp. Maybe Flickr will even host them, or return Nate's correspondence about why they've blocked all of Brett's images and some of Nate's. Anyway, should begin momentarily.
269 comments
Is it because you had dirty pix up there on flickr, you pervs?
Happily, patiently awaiting for this news conference with our President-elect Obama.
Thank you, Nate and Sean, for keeping this wonderful site up!
Does Rahm always look that impatient?
How could he be presumptuous at this point? He's won the election, hasn't he? It's within reason to *presume* he'll be President, no?
Thats a lot of people in the background!
And President-Elect Obama sounds, well, very presidential.
(incidentally, technically, is he President-Elect yet? Given that its the Electoral College which elects the President? Semantic point I know, but hey!)
WV- tortcha- what America won't be doing anymore!
Word-wise he sounds good. Image-wise -- he looks awful == exhausted. i think they need to let the guy rest.
Axelrod in the background looks like he could do with some sleep! Poor guy!
renee,
Lets also not forget that the guys grandmother just died. Must be growing through a whirlwind of emotions right now.
Here is a good update on the remaining races:
http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/11/07/10-remain/
Well that was quick.
Well, I am even more impressed with him as President Elect than I was with him as a candidate (which was pretty damned impressed).
I thought a very professional job. Quick, thoughtful, intelligent, nothing crazy exciting, but a nice little vision into the whole Obama family thing, with the dog.
[And a nice little 'Office of the Vice President elect' sign on the podium]
Yes, Aunty Karen, this definitely looks like the right person at the right time! True, it is the first press conference, but he portrayed what this country needs to see right now.
Oh yeah...and I like his plans.
He is tired, but still quick on his feet. And I truly love the Kennedy-esque humor (about the depth of the dog issue and his being a 'mutt'). But finally, an articulate, rational, prudent, thoughtful Chief Executive. It's been a while. Whew!
WV: "buratopp" = younger brother of Carrot Top
Fati, sure, but he is NOT yet president (as he himself stated a few times) and it is the PRESIDENT that gets the seal! you carch!
*wv: carch
Wow! It's been so long we've had a president who speaks in complete English sentences. That was very refreshing
Man, I can't wait until Jan. 20.
I agree they all look tired; maybe the country will let them nap over the weekend?
Also, I noticed a change in tone: thankfully, he's saying the same things, but now he can say them seriously instead of rhetorically, because he is, for all intents and purposes, the President-Elect!
I don't believe that he blew off Candy Crowley's question: he answered as much as was appropriate, then followed-up to make sure he had addressed both parts; when he couldn't add any more, he moved on. Certainly "skip that one" was an unfortunate choice of words, but he didn't ignore the question.
Wow, are you officially in the White House press corps, or what? :)
The Nancy Reagan joke shocked me a little. Chuck Todd pointed it out, too.
Maureen Dowd joked they'd be bringing a Goldendoodle to the WH. They should! We love ours. No allergies! :)
For a transition team short in age, they are sure keeping to their themes with the discipline of long-timers. Everything is getting dragged back to the economy and that is what the markets want.
I attended the Al Giordano lecture last evening that featured Sean and Nate. Good on both of you for not powering down to this point. But make sure your holidays are restful. 2009 is right around the corner.
Back to the lecture, I give praise and a slap in the face to many of the others who attended. Thank you, Al Giordano for the forum - it was fruitful. I give a slap in the face, though, to those in the room who think that we are going to disregard the input of economic minds like Robert Rubin, Warren Buffett, and Larry Summers.
Robert Reich, David Bonior, and Paul Krugman are awesome - don't get me wrong. But you cannot grow a complete economy by merely focusing on the poor and middle class. Even they know that. You need Rubin, Buffett, Summers, and even Emanuel to right the wrong loopholes in tax code and establish natural incentives for investment in workers in the factories and business of the upper class.
Money has to circulate in order to grow the economy. By just taxing and stagnating the savings of the rich, you disincent investment and motivate them to take their dough to an island for 8 years. You have to engage this class and motivate them with a tax code that screams two important words:
SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY
Outside of the "Workers of the World Unite" speeches pulled out by a few in the room, it was an excellent affair at DePaul last night.
WV: conli. He was the guy in the front seat when kendi was shot.
Imagine if we had all been looking at McCain behind that podium and Palin standing behind.
wv - betcha - Something we won't be hearing from any Statesperson any time soon.
fati -
The "presumptuous" comment was sarcastic. It was aimed at the Republiscum who called Obama 'arrogant' and 'presumptuous' on the campaign trail.
There are good Republicans who will work with President Obama for the good of America. There are others who will whine about 52% and 364+ electoral votes somehow not being a mandate. There are good Americans, and there are ultra-conservative whackos. The 'presumptuous president-elect seal' comment was a snark at the whackos.
Does Rahm always look that impatient?
Only when he can't get in someone's face or break some arms.
M. said...
Does Rahm always look that impatient?
Only when he can't get in someone's face or break some arms.
Obama/Hockey Goon '12!
I am surprised no one brought up the fate of poor Aunt Zeituni. It would have been an interesting segue into immigration reform.
I think it is troubling that a man who professes to care so much for the little guy (and gal) would let so many of his blood relatives founder without any attempt at support.
In my family that kind of behavior would never happen. Certainly not to my Aunt or my half-brother.
Obama must be hoping that Bush deports her before she becomes his problem. What a specter that would be!
What a sad symbol this poor old woman has become.
I am sure few of you care. It’s all about the symbolism and the rhetoric, the trappings of power. Let us not let real people, relatives even get in the way.
The moral low ground.
Pete-
STFU. NOC.
Wow, that was good, succinct, humour, intelligent.
Gotta love complete sentences, speech that is goal directed.
He is already better than that last guy.....uhhhh what was his name.
wv=distes. Sarah Palin presents to McCain staff in a towel, sending them into some distes.
Thanks, PeteKent, for providing the perfect definition of 'whacko'. You have a choice: Work with your president, or continue to tear him down at every opportunity. The first choice makes you a patriot while the second choice makes you something much less than that.
Mason,
Why should I shut up?
Immigration is now the responsibility of Pres Obama. I think how he handles his Aunt's case will be instructive.
You cannot silence opposition or still observation.
You lack of concern for this poor woman shows that youa re as callous as Obama. Pretend to care aobut people, but don't get your hands dirty.
Go on a mission trip!
In my inbox this morning, the "Urban Word of the Day" seems apt for all of us here:
November 07: PEWS
Post-Election-Withdrawl-Syndrome:
The feeling of general depletion and emptiness in the few days after a presidential election. Caused by the sudden withdrawal of any campaign coverage, sound bites, or pictures of babies being kissed. May be accompanied by aimless clicking on news websites looking for something to read.
The Onion also has a hilarious video.
Yes, but how close an aunt is she?
I recently discovered that I am sort of an uncle to someone I didn't even know existed. My grandfather's first marriage broke up extremely acrimoniously and he never talked about it at all. I didn't even know about it until he died.
Theoretically, I'm an uncle of his great-grandkids through that first marriage, but we have never met and calling them "family" just seems ridiculous.
I'm really tired of "day one". This kind of looked like day one to me. Maybe even day three.
Oh, now Bill P feels its fine to question people's patriotism!
We are all Rovians now!
I am hopeful that Obama will do the right thing, but hypocrisy must be exposed and I don't intend to particpate in hid deification.
PeteKent
Why do you hate America?
wv: ingso ! ACK
PeteKent -
Your comment is ignorant as it is arrogant. Obama's aunt (the half-sister of his estranged and now deceased father) is subject to whatever current immigration laws are now in place. It won't be for him to 'handle' the situation.
You're obviously suffering from 'ODS', or Obama Derangement Syndrome. It's a unique condition afflicting a segment of conservatives who do not recognize that conservative principles were just widely repudiated by America.
Be a patriot, PeteKent. Stop with the ODS before it gets out of hand.
And remember, you had the opportunity to make all these arguments and then Americans rejected them. It's time for you to admit: Reality has a liberal bias.
I love my country and my new president.
If you can say the same, PeteKent, I will not question your patriotism. If you cannot repeat both of those sentiments, you should tell me where you'll be moving so I can help you pack.
"Immigration is now the responsibility of Pres Obama. I think how he handles his Aunt's case will be instructive."
PK, stop being retarded.
You are harping on a non-issue. What if he pulls strings for her? You will moan and whine.
The funniest thing is that you seem to think that Obama is president now.
It is not surprising that you got that wrong. You haven't been right yet, why break the streak.
STFU
Badgerhair:
She is his Aunt, his father's sister or half sister. They have met before -- in Africa (you know that big country over there!). Obama wrote warmly of their meetings in his memoirs.
The lady even attended his swearing in to the US Senate.
It would be wrong to dismiss her as a distant relation. She is his blood and he owed her a duty.
Think how many times he was in Boston and never went to see her or sent an aide with a 100 bucks and a box of candy.
There is something telling is this. Much more so than in his cotton candy campaign.
Character counts.
Hey, I just discovered that you can collapse these posts by moving the pointer to the top right. Now I can ditch PeteKent's vitriol.
And why do you guys keep feeding the trolls? You know that's all they have to live for. SNAP!
Comedy site 23/6 takes on Nate. LOL
http://www.236.com/news/2008/11/07/nate_silver_isnt_breaking_up_w_10120.php
PeteKent - I'm confused? Are you faulting the press for not asking the questions you would like, or faulting Obama for not parading out a relative as a political tool?
Personal milestone:
I managed to watch a press conference again because a) there was one . . . and b) it was in intelligible English.
The vestiges of my brain cramps seem to be easing--I didn't have a headache before it even started and I wasn't pre-cringing the whole time waiting for something horridly stupid or mangled to come out. Ah, relief . . .
Bill P:
You fail to realize that the INS is an Executive Dept. Mrs. Ondygo is very much her nephews's problem.
And do not get to full fo yourself. Even in the biased exit polls liberalism came in as a distant third to conservatism.
Obama won a bare majority of the votes. Fully half the nation rejected him.
I suggest it is he, not me, who needs to cross some bridges!
PeteKent:
The days of "gotcha" politics and questioning who is and is not a patriot are coming to an end.
Bill P.:
While you are correct in pointing out that PeteKent is going back to the "gotcha" game, it doesn't mean you can call him unpatriotic because he doesn't see things your way.
Both of You:
It is time to move on and realize that people are not patriotic, actions are patriotic. The jingoism of wrapping yourself up in the flag or supporting a war because the great leader said so are false actions foisted by people acting upon nationalism - not patriotism.
Work a soup kitchen, food depository, or a USO and you are a patriot. Protest a war loudly or fight a war humbly and you are a patriot. Stand up for the oppressed and you are a patriot. Create a job so a guy can get by in bad times and you are a patriot. Balance a budget so our kids are not saddled by debt and you are a patriot.
Don't mistake fake nationalism for patriotism.
Thank you both,
VOTM
"Immigration is now the responsibility of Pres Obama. I think how he handles his Aunt's case will be instructive."
He isn't the President yet. And when he is, unless he decides to be like Bush, the law will apply to him and short of changing a law, whatever is done will be more or less outside of his hands.
Only in Bush's world can the President just decide that he can do what he wants because he says so.
Why should I shut up?
Because you're a clown, and clowns are better when mute.
Immigration is now [sic] the responsibility of Pres Obama[sic]. I think how he handles his Aunt's case will be instructive.
Civics, Motherfucker- Do you know it? Bush is still President. Nothing is President-elect Obama's responsibility yet. His job now is to prepare to take over on January 20th, and to continue to represent the people of IL in the United States Senate.
I suspect she'll be deported and you will complain just you would have if he had interceded on her behalf. Rule of law? Remember that?
You cannot silence opposition or still observation.
You're free to do whatever you want. BTW, FWIW: NOC= "No One Cares".
You lack of concern for this poor woman shows that youa re as callous as Obama. Pretend to care aobut people, but don't get your hands dirty.
What have you done for her?
Go on a mission trip!
Jesus is the answer! Thanks. I'll just go build houses in NOLA or spend my holiday at a soup kitchen or something. Oh wait. I've done that. See what happens when you blindly cast aspersions and make assumptions?
Like I said, "STFU. NOC."
A bare majority of votes? The man's up 7%. In this political environment, that's a blowout.
Bill P:
Obama has to earn my love!
America has always had it. And always will. I wonder if your constancy can match mine. Or is it only now in the epoch of Obama that you have found your patriotism
I am not some Johnny Come Lately!
PeteKent cares more about Obama's distant relative than he did about John McCain's shameful treatment of the first Mrs. McCain.
PeteKent's non-arguments are dismissed. I welcome him to unite behind our new President and stop the divisive nonsense that was just overwhelmingly rejected by America.
Not even close to half the nation rejected him.
McCain would have need a few million more votes just to tie among voters.
Don't forget only ~25% of the population voted for dumbya.
I realize that you don't understand that the President is bound by the laws, even Bush.
This is a non-issue and it appears you are the only person who thinks otherwise.
You have proven time and time again that you are an idiot, there is nothing left for you to do. Go retire and enjoy wallowing in ignorance.
PeteKent,
So you think that Obama should place himself and his family above the law, do you? Even though he is supposed to swear an oath to protect the Constitution when he takes office, you think that he should just ride roughshod over it when there's a relative involved.
I realise that someone who has supported Bush/Cheney/Rove might find that acceptable, but quite a few people probably voted for Obama because they thought that abuse of Presidential power should stop.
hatshepsutely:
I am faulting Obama for not looking after his own.
Obama's Aunt was proud to attend her nephew's US Senate Swearing in and now will experience his Inauguration facing deportation.
I want to reflect on this woman for a moment and wonder how it was that she came to be in her present straights when her nephew was a Harvard educated lawyer, Editor in Chief of his Law Review, in fact. He was a sitting US Senator and their nominee of his Party for President. How curious, then, that he could not find it within himself to care enough about this poor relation that he might have helped her regularize her immigration status.
I want to sip the Kool Aide with y’all, but then I think of Aunt Zeituni and continue to suspend belief.
Obama has a hole in his character somewhere and I think it begins in Africa with his daddy.
Obama is close to beating Bill Clinton's margin of victory in 1996, when Clinton defeated Dole by 8.2 million votes. (Clinton defeated Bush by 5.8 million votes in 1992). He's already overtaken Bush's 1988 margin over Dukakis, (7.1 million).
This could be the biggest margin of victory in actual votes since 1984. He could even beat Reagan's 1980 margin of 8.4 million over Carter.
Currently Obama is 7,946,279 votes ahead. In percentage terms, he leads by 6.42%.
PeterKent the lying reTHUGlicqn log cabin HACK is back. Done licking your wounds(imean arze)?
Go take a bath in your toxic putrid bile.
L O S E R
VOMW -
The difference is that my 'agree with me or leave' statements are parody, a mirror held up to conservatives so they can see how they've sounded for eight years.
I believe PeteKent loves America. I also believe he needs to know how it feels to be talked down to and have his patriotism questioned for daring to dissent. This will, hopefully, prevent him from acting that way again.
But seriously, stop with the aunt crap. It shouldn't have been made public, America knew about it, and America elected Barack Hussein Obama anyway. It's time to stop with the politics of personal destruction and focus instead on the challenges we face as a nation.
Oh my God. How much longer will Nate and Sean continue to keep their lips firmly planted on Obama's ass.
This is disgusting.
And why I'm trying to wean myself off of this site, even though I still have this itch to come on and stir up trouble by offering my differing, yet intelligent, opinion.
In spite of the partisanship, it was nice during the campaign season to come in and discuss the polls and argue over other intangibles.
Now, it's nothing but out-and-out navel-gazing over the Most Wonderful Man Ever, Barack Obama.
Pleeease...this shit makes me sick, and he's going to fall flat on his face. Yes, my opinion, but anyone saying he's going to be "great" at this is just stating their opinion too and are no more informed or clued in than I am.
He makes me sick.
*sticks finger mockingly in throat for gagging gesture*
Pete is still upset because the "people of the trees" didn't come out and vote and carry Maine and Oregon. You know Sarah Palin connected so well with them.
Pete your toilet is clogged, call the Joe the Plumber.
It is time to move on and realize that people are not patriotic, actions are patriotic. The jingoism of wrapping yourself up in the flag or supporting a war because the great leader said so are false actions foisted by people acting upon nationalism - not patriotism.
Work a soup kitchen, food depository, or a USO and you are a patriot. Protest a war loudly or fight a war humbly and you are a patriot. Stand up for the oppressed and you are a patriot. Create a job so a guy can get by in bad times and you are a patriot. Balance a budget so our kids are not saddled by debt and you are a patriot.
QFT. Bravo.
badgerhair,
So you think that Obama should place himself and his family above the law, do you? Even though he is supposed to swear an oath to protect the Constitution when he takes office, you think that he should just ride roughshod over it when there's a relative involved.
I realise that someone who has supported Bush/Cheney/Rove might find that acceptable, but quite a few people probably voted for Obama because they thought that abuse of Presidential power should stop.
Well said and exactly. It will take those who found the last 8 years' conduct acceptable quite a while to understand what living according to our Constitution means again.
"I wonder if your constancy can match mine."
No one can be as consistently retard as you are PK.
That is your only constant: retarded and incorrect rants.
Of course, if Obama had helped his aunt, then PeteKent would be simpering about corruption and nepotism and how the rules don't apply to Obama and his family.
Social conservatives are nothing if not consistent in their desire to constantly tear down and destroy others.
Voice of the Midwest;
Save your sanctimony for someone who needs it!
"Work a soup kitchen, food depository, or a USO and you are a patriot"
Here's one to add to your list:
Help out your impoversihed Aunt who was gotten crosswise in her immigration status.
Obama is a charlatan. I hope he proves me wrong!
Currently Obama is 7,946,279 votes ahead. In percentage terms, he leads by 6.42%.
Andy, do have a link to the actual vote total with percentage, or can you put post them please? Just curious to see. Thanks!
Obama's Aunt was proud to attend her nephew's US Senate Swearing in and now will experience his Inauguration facing deportation.
Link?
Mule Rider:
Reality has a liberal bias.
Barack Hussein Obama will be an outstanding American president. Your side made its arguments to America, and your side overwhelmingly lost. Deal with it, son.
Foul-mouthed mason wrote:
"I suspect she'll be deported and you will complain just you would have if he had interceded on her behalf. Rule of law? Remember that? "
I expect Obama to follow the rule of law, but as a private citizen he should help this poor unfortunate.
"And why I'm trying to wean myself off of this site, even though I still have this itch to come on and stir up trouble by offering my differing, yet intelligent, opinion."
LOL Ass Rider, you are only intelligent when compared to PK and Palin.
You know, you need to take your meds every day.
The funny thing is Obama hasn't even taken office and he has stung more intelligent sentences together than Bush did his entire term.
PeteKent:
Why does the plight of Obama's aunt (and there's no proof she ever shared her situation with Obama) bother you more than the plight of the first Mrs. John McCain?
Until you can answer that question, son, you have no point to make.
Oh, I get it. This is the sockpuppet PeteKent back for our amusement.
He is here...
For me to poop on!
Woot! Missed ya buddy. Can you next rail about Ayers? I *love* that one!
"I am not some Johnny Come Lately!" (PeteKent)
No, you are not a "Johnny Come Lately".
You are worse: you pick and choose your support for Americans and American institutions according to what politics have been assigned to them by right wing media outlets.
Then, you blame the media when the failed logic is exposed.
You are the victim of Lee Greenwood, Rush Limbaugh, and thirty relentless years of conservatives telling you all that is to the right is normal and all that is to the left is abnormal. You pick and choose according to the limited menu you have been fed.
Not all conservatives are correct and not all liberals are wrong...and vice versa.
I know, I know...damn me for having an open mind and still having the ability to pick apart your psyche with the precision of Hannibal Lechter.
PeterKent
Awww Shaddup
Peak wingnuttery, indeed.
APNewsBreak: Obama's aunt to fight to stay in US
Andy JS:
Pls adjust your numbers for growth in the electorate. This is a quantitiave site and you are embarassing yourself, son.
Obama got 52% of the vote, a little more than half. Alot of folks were not buying into it.
Help out your impoversihed Aunt who was gotten crosswise in her immigration status.
Wha?
Crosswise?
Don't you mean "crossed up"? As in "confused"?
She applied for asylum and it was rejected. She then went to ground and overstayed a visa. She was living below the radar until the UK press broke the story. There's really nothing ambiguious about it. Frankly, I'd be disappointed if she weren't deported. That's what happens when illegal immigrants pop up on ICE's radar.
Self-parody indeed!
"VOMW -
The difference is that my 'agree with me or leave' statements are parody, a mirror held up to conservatives so they can see how they've sounded for eight years.
I believe PeteKent loves America. I also believe he needs to know how it feels to be talked down to and have his patriotism questioned for daring to dissent. This will, hopefully, prevent him from acting that way again.
But seriously, stop with the aunt crap. It shouldn't have been made public, America knew about it, and America elected Barack Hussein Obama anyway. It's time to stop with the politics of personal destruction and focus instead on the challenges we face as a nation."
PeterKent=Log cabin TROLL alert
Joe the Plumber's home county (Lucas) voted for Obama 65-34. The local disgust with him likely helped Obama.
The Marcy Kaptur, the Dem representative he talked about running against in 2010, won reelection with 74% of the vote.
There is nothing Dems want more than to see him and Palin remain in the news. They are gifts that keep on giving.
Dumbass Peat wrote:
Foul-mouthed mason wrote:
"I suspect she'll be deported and you will complain just you would have if he had interceded on her behalf. Rule of law? Remember that? "
I expect Obama to follow the rule of law, but as a private citizen he should help this poor unfortunate.
Prove he knew she was in this country.
Like I said, I'll match your contribution to her. PYMWYMI or STFU.
pa john:
I'm using cbs news, cnn, and fox news election pages:
http://elections.foxnews.com/states_map/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/
http://election.cbsnews.com/election2008/president.shtml
Hrm, I'm sorry to see people got suckered into this Auntie argument.
Your hair is on fire (economy) and you have a hangnail (Aunt you may or may not have known about her circumstances). Which are you going to fix first?
Get serious, folks. This guy, Barack Obama, is going to be the President. These are troubled times, here, if you haven't noticed. If we don't all work together, yeah, he will fall flat on his face. So will the country. You choose.
Link?
Google her!
pa john,
Margaret Wong is a first class immigration attorney. Couldn't have better representation.
Hmmm, where's the outrage about violation of law in divulging the aunt's status in the first place??? It shouldn't have been public knowledge anyway and, unless she chose to share the info with anyone, no one would have known but for the breach of federal law. Ah, but that's okay (just like outing Plame was okay because it served an immediate political need).
Good riddance to the whole lot of them!
deep thought: did Dean Smith win NC for Obama?
52% is a landslide in presidential politics. Social conservatism was on the ballot, and it got its ass kicked.
Obama's aunt can go to court to attempt to stay. Obama is showing his character and commitment to rule of law by not interfering.
That's really all there is to it.
Obama will end up with something between 53 and 54% of the popular vote when all the votes are counted, not 52. Rounded off it would already be 53.
And this will be the fourth time in five elections that the Democratic candidate won the popular vote.
Bill P.,
Reality has no bias. It is what it is. And you have no more prescience than I do about Obama's impending performance as commander-in-chief, so come off it.
As I said, I think he'll suck. You think he'll be great. Key word: think. Not know. Think. You don't know shit and are foolishly misguided if you "think" you "know" he'll be great.
We shall see.
David,
No meds needed here. Just 'cause I come on here and drop some dirty language in amongst my arguments doesn't drop my IQ...it may make me a jerk or an asshole, but it's no indictment of my intelligence.
Let's put it this way, I'm plenty intelligent enough to have an advanced degree and a successful and well-paying job. I have no debt and am happy through and through with my life....not some bitter liberal paranoid loser like you who bitches and whines about everyhing.
Remember, recent surveys show about 34% of the country identify as conservatives, 22% liberal, and 44% moderates. The tilt is still center-right, folks, it's still center-right. Republicans have failed because they strayed and went nutty right-wing. Conservatism still triumphs and is pervasive in the hearts and minds of many Americans.
"Save your sanctimony for someone who needs it!" (PeteKent)
Pete:
The aunt thing means nothing. You can choose to keep playing this game like it means a damn with the American people (just like Ayers, Wright, and all the other canards). Or, you can move forward and put behind the black helicopter politics of the past decade and a half.
I wasn't being sanctimonious. Just adult. Don't confuse the two.
Now go back to listening to the right wing hacks and spew out more venom that will aid in a 10 million person majority for Obama in 2012.
Get my point? The gutter politics is KILLING the right.
Speaking of taking care of your own, I notice that the Republican Party has just pushed Sarah Palin into highway traffic. And she didn't even do anything illegal. Those guys are such models of Christian charity. Since they've demeaned their former princess as a hillbilly (their term) and sent lawyers to her house to collect her clothing, I can really see how they're going to emerge as populist champions of the middle class.
I'm not crazy about Palin but that's just plain mean.
/now with slightly better grammar!
//tastes great, less filling
Yes, PeteKent. That's what I'm doing - showing you how your filthy ilk has sounded for eight years.
Do you like it? Because you now have no power in America. You can whine and you can protest and you can shout and you can cry, but you cannot do anything. Would you prefer us to dismiss you and insult you, or would you prefer to have your concerns heard and addressed? Because guess which one your side has earned over the past few years.
By the way, GREATnewsinOH, you asked earlier how folks elsewhere handled elections.
Here in the UK, your questions seemed somewhat weird.
Here, party membership or affiliation is very rare amongst the population. Less than 2% of people are members of political parties. Party membership does not come for free as part of registering to vote: you have to pay a subscription, and you can be expelled if you do something egregiously bad.
Government servants above a certain pay grade are prohibited from any overt involvement in political parties. Some are members, but they aren't supposed to admit it. True, the staff who sit at polling stations handing out ballots may be party members, but most local councils try and ensure that the staff in the elections department are free of political ties.
When polling is underway, the candidates and their agents (ie chief organisers/ campaign chairs) are allowed to enter polling stations to see that things are going OK, bit otherwise you're not allowed to be inside unless you are actually voting.
Once the ballot boxes are opened at the counting place, party workers can stand on the other side of the table to the counters to make sure that mistakes aren't made, and the agents are consulted by the returning officer over whether ballots which have been filled in unconventionally are valid votes or not, but the idea that someone with a party affiliation would handle a ballot paper before the voter has voted and placed it in the box just seems bizarre to us.
PeteKent said...
Link?
Google her!
NO!
YOU'RE THE ONE MAKING CLAIMS!
YOU'RE THE ONE WHO WILL PROVIDE LINKS AND EVIDENCE!
THAT'S HOW IT WORKS!
IT'S NOT VERY HARD!
Will Obama's dog be as Socialized as Barny is unsocialized?
Obama is going to have a running start, but he faces so many problems because of the incompetence of Bush.
He is starting great, WHCOS pick was absolutely perfect. That is the type of politician that is needed for that position.
That is one constant with Obama, he makes sure he has the right people around him.
That is why he has a much better chance of fixing many of the problems that plague us.
I was not a fan of Clinton and I feel he should have been impeached for crimes against the American people(supporting the contract on America, giving away the airwaves, etc) and Bush should be picking up trash on the side of the highway for the next 500 years for crimes against the constitution and humanity.
This is the first time I think the American people have not chosen correctly in decades but the best choice is exactly what we need at this time.
He has his work cut out for him, but there is finally real hope. That is why people are rightfully happy.
PK and AssRider should go to freeptard land so they can whine in their small echo chamber and think they are getting somewhere.
Remember you vile trolls, this election was more of a repudiation of right wing policies as it was about Obama. The American people have turned their backs on you, and with each Obama success your archaic notions will be minimized even more. Deal with it.
Liberalism cam in a distant third to conservatism in the left-leaning exit polls.
Obama ran as a centrist.
He was embarassed by all of you.
Just like he was Aunt Zeituni!
Do you see the pattern, folks?
You should ask more of this guy.
Pete:
You lost. Now grow up and work with us to solve these economic problems.
Aunt Karen is right. Our hair is on fire and you are bitching about a hangnail that doesn't even hurt.
BTW, apparently, a hangnail that is reportedly to have been leaked by a Republican political appointee named Myers who put in her resignation last evening.
We have no more room for scumbag, distraction politics with the problems we have, Pete. Move on, brother.
VOTM
Your correction is happily accepted, sfergus483.
MR: Whatever. Bottom line is that your side lost, and America's reality will definitely have a more liberal bias over the next few years. Thank God. If you want to wish our new president ill, that's up to you. I choose not to. And for the record, I wished W wouldn't have sucked and I wished him well both in 2000 and immediately after 9/11. It's not my fault he actually sucked.
"Obama got 52% of the vote, a little more than half. Alot of folks were not buying into it."
That millions of votes between them, it is not close. 52% in a national election is HUGE.
With a majority in congress and the senate, those 48% don't factor into anything.
Watch that number shrink as they get a better view of an intelligent, calm man who is working to improve the lives of everyone, not just his rich buddies.
You can get all bitter and cling to whatever you want, but the fact remains that the policies of the republican party where shot down in a large, strong voice.
Regarding the former Mrs. McCain, she forgives him. I'll take her word for it.
Recall also that at the Saddleback form when asked what his greatest moral lapse was, McCain unhesitatingly replied: The failure of my first marriage.
Obama mumbled some pabulum about not doing enough to help people -- while he was speaking in the abstract it occurs to me now that perhaps he was speaking of his African relations.
McCain was ready to admit fault; Obama was too immature to do so.
But but but, Obama's not even eligible to be president. I read it on the internets.
"bama ran as a centrist." (PeteKent)
I thought he was a socialist, borderline communist three weeks ago, Pete? Or better yet, a terrorist?
You act as if there is no record of the crap you write?
Pete, three weeks ago, you had no credibility. Today, you have way less than that.
And this will be the fourth time in five elections that the Democratic candidate won the popular vote.
And the first of those with anywhere near 53%
No non incumbent has won a percentage of the popular vote that high since Ike did over 50 years ago.
But I digress - math apparently has a liberal bias.
Vo the MW:
"damn me for having an open mind and still having the ability to pick apart your psyche with the precision of Hannibal Lechter."
You are a whack job!
petekent:
I deliberately mentioned the fact that those figures were actual votes, not percentages.
Anyway, Obama is now officially on 53%, not 52%. That sounds less like a close result to most people even though it's only a 1% difference.
And there are still 2,631,610 votes to be counted in California (where Obama won 61% of the vote), Washington state has only reported 78%, where Obama has so far won 58%, and there are probably a few million more votes to come in from other states. There's a chance Obama could hit 54%, (to the nearest percentage point.
McCain's final percentage could well slip to 45% (to the nearest whole per cent). He's currently on 46.1%, according to Fox News.
Bill-
Strictly speaking, MR's not really wishing him ill (today). He's just saying he thinks he'll suck. I'm with you in thinking that MR is wrong and that Obama will be a good President, but don't misread what MR is saying. He was right on one thing: You don't know shit about what will happen, but then neither does he.
Stop with the "your side."
I didn't vote. Not McCain. Not Obama. Nobody. I have no side. I have principles and values I stand on as an American, but you can't put me in a box.
So don't be a stupid bitch about it and keep drawing lines in the sand. I HAVE NO SIDE.
wv = lestle - Nestle's female cousin
PeteKent is doing what conservascum always does - just putting his head down and muttering the same failed attack lines over and over again. I swear, these folks are pathetic. America was fooled for a while, but no more.
And, as sfergus483 points out, the popular vote has gone to Democrats for 4 out of the last 5 presidential elections.
Cheer up, PeteKent. President-elect Obama would be happy to accept your help and support even now, with no hard feelings for your past history of making sickening personal attacks.
Point taken, Mason. But if MR didn't vote, then he has no right to bitch IMHO.
MR = sideline spectator, nothing more.
Greatnews in OH:
You live in OH -- where was your outrage over the outing of your fellow citizen Joe the Plumber?
"Hmmm, where's the outrage about violation of law in divulging the aunt's status in the first place??? "
PeterKent said: "Character counts."
So does Rule of Law. At least come Jan. 20th I hope it will again. The President pushing crap on the country for family reasons got the US into a war in Iraq.
Not to say that immigration policy isn't something to look at. But it is hardly higher priority than the current economic problems of the country. Would you really want an elected official to misappropriate the powers of his office for personal ends? For f#*%s sake give you head a shake. It certainly is a "character" issue but I don't think you know what that word means.
The Reich Wing thinks people don't know how to use The Googles to look up facts.
Bill P:
Obama does not remake mathematical laws!
A landslide is commmonly thought to start at a margin of 10%.
PeteKent:
Time for you to leave. You are losing it and have been beaten into the ground.
Barack Obama is our President. Deal with it and do as I did with Bush until about March, 2003: support him.
You are an example of the frustration the far right will have with Obama: they do not have a cad like Clinton in Obama to pick apart his sins and call a lechorous fiend at all turns.
Obama is a solid guy...worse to your types, he is a solid guy who happens to be African-American.
400 years of oppression and this is what you get, Pete. Frustrating, isn't it?
VOTM
Thanks, Mason. And I admitted I don't know what'll happen.
To VOTM,
You realize that you can "run" a campaign as a centrist yet "be" something different - i.e. liberal, socialist, etc.
Don't confuse rhetoric with reality. They're not one and the same.
He may wind up more centrist, and I hope he does, but he has shown tendencies to lean far left in his limited "actual" experience.
However I think that the reporters dropped the ball in NOT ASKING about the Aunt's situation. Asking about the dog instead??? *sigh*
Perfect. I see this new post and get excited for some intelligent discussion about the press conference and instead I get the same idiot that ruined the comments section of this site before the election.
And ten even BIGGER idiots that won't STOP RESPONDING TO THE TROLL.
Figure it out. All he wants is for you to pay attention to him. He knows he's speaking total nonsense.
You respond = he wins.
Nate, I love this site, but please either set up an ignore system or just start banning trolls and, frankly, everyone who trolls back.
petekent--
JTP sought out the media. He saw the cameras, he came running the first time and every time after that. Everything divulged about him was divulged by the press from public records. When you seek publicity, you run that risk. Comes with the territory.
Non payment of his taxes? It's a public record available online.
Your point?
I have a right to bitch and moan. First amendment. These were two terrible candidates, and the third party candidates were just as bad.
As long as I feel no one best represents me or can lead properly, I will stay home.
Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time commenter. :-)
Some people claim "black racism" when pointing at 95% of black vote Obama got.
Well, I did some analysis... At first, I wrote it in Russian (my native tongue), but then translated it into English:
http://pasha71.livejournal.com/1360.html
PeteKent -
"She is his Aunt, his father's sister or half sister."
No-one is disputing that. I have an aunt and cousins who are not US citizens myself, incidentally.
"They have met before -- in Africa (you know that big country over there!)."
Africa is not a 'country', it's a continent. Unbelievable.
"Obama wrote warmly of their meetings in his memoirs.
The lady even attended his swearing in to the US Senate."
That's nice.
"It would be wrong to dismiss her as a distant relation. She is his blood and he owed her a duty."
If he did try to game the immigration system for her, you'd howl for his blood, but if he doesn't, you feign hypocritical concern for her.
"Think how many times he was in Boston and never went to see her or sent an aide with a 100 bucks and a box of candy."
I don't have time to visit my relatives every time I travel professionally. I have no idea what you're babbling about with regard to hundred dollar boxes of candy, nor how you would know whether or not Obama gives his aunt candy at any rate.
"There is something telling is this. Much more so than in his cotton candy campaign."
Character counts."
I agree that character counts. Try showing some. This is ridiculous.
I didn't vote. Not McCain. Not Obama. Nobody. I have no side. I have principles and values I stand on as an American, but you can't put me in a box.
This isn't specific to MR (so please don't take this the wrong way), but I've always been of the opinion that a none-voter shouldn't complain. In the bus that is The USA, they aren't driving. They're not even looking at the map. They're just along for the ride. I understand and have far more respect for third-party voters far more than I do for none none-votes.
A landslide is commmonly thought to start at a margin of 10%.
OK, then Ronald Reagan's 9.7% didn't quite make the mark. Thank's for clearing that up!
Or you can skip the troll and response posts. That's an option too.
Seriously. Maybe we should ban people who want dissenting comments and responses to those comments outlawed.
"A landslide is commmonly thought to start at a margin of 10%." (PeteKent)
Not so.
In 2000, 2002, and 2004, I was told by the GOP that in each election, there was a clear mandate for their agenda.
A mandate only comes with landslide.
They didn't even win the popular vote in 2000, barely held onto Congress in 2002, and got 51% in 2004.
Hardly 10% in any case, but they declared mandate. Funny, huh? 7 to 8% spread plus big gains in Congress and the Dems don't call it a mandate?
I am ignoring MR at this point because sideline spectators have earned no response.tr
There are two ways a landslide could be measured in terms of the popular vote: either a 10% margin of victory, or a 10 million vote margin of victory, (assuming we all know that the total vote is around 125-130 million).
Obama won't reach 10%, but he's got an outside chance of hitting 10 million. We'll have to see how those 2.6 million outstanding votes in California break.
Nice work, pasha71
Seriously. Maybe we should ban people who want dissenting comments and responses to those comments outlawed.
Let the trolls troll. I don't classify Mule Rider as a troll - he's a dissenting voice and enjoys the debate, whether others degree or not.
PeteKent on the other hand rarely has anything of intelligence or substance to say. He's still waiting for the people of the forest to uprise.
Actually, in most political discourse a landslide victory is one in which you end up with an overwhelming majority of the votes in the body which is being elected. In this case, it was the electoral college, where Obama commands a 70% majority, which I would call pretty much overwhelming.
It is a feature of some electoral systems that relatively small swings can have vast effects, but then real landslides are often the result of a very small but of mud collapsing.
Andy JS:
Nice try at backing into your conclusion!
"There are two ways a landslide could be measured in terms of the popular vote: either a 10% margin of victory, or a 10 million vote margin of victory, (assuming we all know that the total vote is around 125-130 million)."
Why can't you jsut admit that this was a reasonably close election and that Obama still has nearly ahlf the country he has to win over. 48 or 47 (ok?) percent are skeptical.
*sigh*
Just got back here from a couple days' vacation from 538, and am distressed to see that things have descended into flame warfare. With the inevitable post-election decrease in posting/commenting volume, the trolling (and worse, troll-*feeding*) are gonna drown out the things that made me (and a lot of other folks) come here in the first place.
wv: supper--what I hope President-Elect Obama has nice and early with just his family tonight before a good night's sleep--the poor man looked dead on his feet!
MR-
BillP and I said, "Shouldn't," not "Can't". You're free to do whatever you like, of course! You just need to realize that you sound like someone from a political cartoon.
Hell, put yourself up for office! You're, what, 27? Get in now. Spend twenty years in politics and you'd be 47. Guess who's 47?
Does anyone know of a place where I could watch the full press conference from start to finish? Just curious. Thanks.
"You realize that you can "run" a campaign as a centrist yet "be" something different - i.e. liberal, socialist, etc." (Mule Rider)
Nope, you cannot have it both ways, Mule Rider.
His agenda is either socialist/communist (as you posed in the campaign) or centrist as FOX and the right wing media sources are claiming post campaign.
Which is it? Is he a centrist or an extreme threat to the capitalist system as you and the throngs bleated in the general election?
You cannot have it both ways.
BTW: He was a centrist/populist from 2004 until today. No flip-flopping, nothing has changed.
Except he had the audacity to run for President.
BTW Dou you all like Rahm Emmanuel?
Why?/Not?
"Or you can skip the troll and response posts. That's an option too."
Right. This thread is now 80% idiots. Skipping them means skipping the thread entirely, which leads us back to meaningless.
Better idea: people stop being idiots.
Dissenting comments are great... hijacking topics to intentionally troll people too impressed with the sound of the own posts to help themselves is not great.
It makes the discussion part of the site useless.
Why not go to AOL chatrooms to have your stupid internet fights and let this place have some insightful conversations instead.
As soon as PeteKent walked into this thread the entire discussion of the topic went away.
Be better.
PeteKent=the wingnut HO from Ipanema
Hereby invoking the goosie/gander rule:
2004:
Bush
62,040,606
51%
286 EVs
Kerry
59,028,109
48%
252 EVs
(11-05) 04:00 PST Washington -- President Bush proclaimed his election as evidence that Americans embrace his plans to reform Social Security, simplify the tax code, curb lawsuits and fight the war on terror, pledging Thursday to work in a bipartisan manner with "everyone who shares our goals."
Bush staked his claim to a broad mandate and announced his top priorities at a post-election news conference, saying his 3.5 million vote victory had won him political capital that he would spend enacting his conservative agenda.
"I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it," Bush told reporters. "It is my style."
Mason,
30. I've seriously considered it. Lord knows there's plenty opportunity for someone to step in at the local level here in Memphis and clean things up.
I appreciate you guys' opinion on non-voters, but I just can't cast my vote for someone when practically everyone is either far away from my political leanings or is just outright bad.
VOTM,
You still don't get it and it's simple.
Say one thing. Do another. Plain and simple.
He tells everyone he's a centrist when campaigning. He will be liberal when he governs. That's what people are saying.
I can respect it if you just disagree that he's doing that. But that's the charge.
Wow, John. I'll have to make sure to call you for permission and guidance on how to discuss issues in the future. I didn't realize you were such an oracle!
I will comment as I see fit. Your opinion is noted. If you wish to leave as a result, that is certainly your choice.
John said:
As soon as PeteKent walked into this thread the entire discussion of the topic went away.
Be better.
You are right, my apologies to everyone for letting myself be baited by his ridiculous comments.
petekent:
My personal view is that the election was neither close nor a landside - as things stand at the moment.
However, I think if Obama does end up leading by 10 million votes, and the percentages are Obama - 54%, McCain - 45%, then it will be getting close to a landslide, especially taking the 364 EVs into account.
Those who didn't vote for Obama were certainly not all conservatives. McCain is currently on 46%, not 48%.
MR:
Damn, off by a few years! I was trying to piece together a few of the snippets of bio you've left on here.
Hey... Whatever works for you!
I love this site so much but sadly, I will STOP READING if people keep feeding the damn trolls.
Really. Stop. You're helping wreck the blog. You're wrecking a good thing.
wv=smuss. Reading these troll comments and the persistent responses to them makes me feel covered in smuss from top to bottom.
BTW Dou you all like Rahm Emmanuel? (PeteKent)
Love him. He knows how get things done and he is a comfort to the markets.
BTW, his name is Emanuel and you may want to look into his immigration records, Pete. He was born in Israel, so he may be a terrorist or even (God forbid!) an illegal immigrant refused asylum!
My guess is you don't like him because he is hated by O'Reilly and Limbaugh for some false choice they posited about him. Truth be told, it is his religious background combined with his party that they really loathe.
Sean Hannity's partner Andy Martin must really love Emanuel! Oh, boy, I can't wait.
So fair and balanced! I know because they told me so!
Stop. Feeding. The. Trolls.
Please.
If you don't respond, they're left howling in an empty room, alone.
This development is highly disappointing.
A president who takes questions from the press. Big sigh. It seems like a million years since we had a real president.
A grown-up who is willing to "risk" being around people like the press who aren't just there to stroke his ego.
I know... I ought to leave it at "STFU. GTFO," but it's such low-hanging fruit. It's like playing soccer with U7s.
"Wow, John. I'll have to make sure to call you for permission and guidance on how to discuss issues in the future"
Hey, anything to help. It certainly couldn't hurt.
"I will comment as I see fit."
Obviously.
"If you wish to leave as a result, that is certainly your choice."
I will always read what Nate has to say, whether the discussions are worth the time of anyone with half a brain is still to be determined.
It will probably come down to how Nate decides to moderate long term.
It was pretty clear in the closing weeks that most of the smarter posters had gone elsewhere to discuss. The comments sections here had some good people, but they become all but lost in the troll fest.
So we'll see which way it goes down. But, really, you should check out AOL. They have some great trolling, you might like it more.
MR:
Regardless of my personal opinion of your personal opinions, I highly encourage/support/applaud anyone who gets involved at the local level. Running for office is an act of patriotism in my opinion, as it requires a great love of country and community to make that sacrifice.
Seriously, politics isn't all about perks. There are very few perks, in fact. Low pay, constant arguing, and personal attacks are part of the job. I hope you do consider getting involved and taking a stand. America needs more of her citizens to get involved, IMHO.
Ass Rider babbled:
"I have a right to bitch and moan. First amendment. These were two terrible candidates, and the third party candidates were just as bad.
As long as I feel no one best represents me or can lead properly, I will stay home"
First amendment doesn't apply to privately own website. I wouldn't expect someone of your intelligence to understand that.
Please stay home. If you didn't notice, the people who represented your hatred and contempt for everyone "different" get their asses kicked earlier in the week.
You wingnuts just go ahead and keep obsessing about Aunt Zeituni and Obama's birth certificate. We just kicked your ass six ways to Sunday and are focused on fixing the country that you spent the last eight years ruining.
John:
Ask John Kerry how that whole "ignore the trolls" thing worked out.
I'll respond when I deem it appropriate, thank you. But I do respect your opinion and where you're coming from on this.
To go back to the press conference, though, I noted that Obama dodged the specific question about whether those on higher incomes would be taxed higher in 2009.
Here I need some education.
The President-elect made a restructured tax plan a major feature of his campaign, but what power does he actually have to implement it? In the UK, changes to tax rates require legislation. If it's the same in the US, then it's up to Congress to rip his tax plan to shreds if they so desire.
What are the chances of the tax plans Obama laid out during the election actually being implemented?
I'm going to apologize for my last post. I wish I could delete it.
My defense is that I was really looking forward to a good discussion about a fascinating press conference and was really, really disappointed that some trolls didn't go away after the election.
The thread really became useless. And then I let my frustration add to it.
I apologize, Bill. And you're right. I should just go elsewhere until it settles down or changes.
This is a great site and there are many great people here, which makes me prefer to change it rather than leave. But lashing out at you isn't the way to do it.
First amendment doesn't apply to privately own website. I wouldn't expect someone of your intelligence to understand that.
While correct, you've missed the context of what we were talking about, but whatever.
OT: Hypothetical ECV by CD
I was wondering, if the electoral college cast votes by congressional districts in every state how would future presidential campaigns respond? Two votes would be cast for the state outcome and the remaining votes would be cast by district outcome. In states with 3 votes, there would be no change.
Has anyone seen an analysis of that scenario?
Sorry, Mule Rider. I respectfully have to let you know that you are wrong
The right called him everything but a child of God in an effort to cage him in the eyes of the uninformed voter out there. You did pretty well doing that, MR.
McCain got 45-46% of the vote when the Party label is running at 28%.
You run your government with the agenda you put forth in campaigns. Obama was labelled by the right as a socialist terrorist whose leadership will kill the markets and destroy Israel.
Now he is a centrist?
Where I am from, that line of logic is called 'partisan after the fact b*llshit' and must be called out for its' inconsistency.
Good day...and as I leave, I ask one favor:
Give the guy half a chance before he even has a chance, OK?
I agree it's best to ignore trolling. But I find threats to leave if posting is not suitable to someone childish. Nothing wrong with stating your preference regarding ignoring trolls, but threats of leaving are almost as annoying as trolls. If you want to leave that's fine, but don't try to control how people post with the drama.
Just a quick thing on the size of the win. I wouldn't personally call this a landslide. A convincing victory for sure, but personally a landslide for me requires both a huge margin in the electoral college and the popular vote.
On Obama's aunt. If she is in America illegally and thats a failure of the executive, whose fault is that? And from everything I have read about her relationship with Obama, they aren't especially close.
And its amazing to me. Virtually to a man, anyone who is a Republican that I know, and have seen in the media (save for Limbaugh) has actually been very gracious in recognising President-Elect Obama. Why do a couple of trolls have to come in and sour the spirit of togetherness. Pathetic really.
John:
That was class and I humbly accept your apology. In turn, I apologize for coming off snotty when you're simply trying to maintain a high level of discourse.
I like spirited and heated discussion, especially since I believe it does serve a purpose. Just a philosophical difference is all. I hope you stick around.
OKay, Andy JS--
You and I are in rough agreement.
"My personal view is that the election was neither close nor a landside - as things stand at the moment.
However, I think if Obama does end up leading by 10 million votes, and the percentages are Obama - 54%, McCain - 45%, then it will be getting close to a landslide, especially taking the 364 EVs into account."
2/3 of the electoral vote and 6-8% popular vote is HUGE.
Both numbers might move towards Obama a little more as the results are finalized.
So, touching on an interesting topic without trolling it up more... What is a landslide?
I've heard the same thing from a few of the Republican talk stations lately that I've been listening to just to hear the rhetoric. Their biggest thing, along with the sole Republican that I know, has been saying that the race was "extremely close" and that "it could have easily swung on just about anything." The radio said that he only won by 2%, since he had 52% of the vote, and that was about the slimmest of margins that was possible.
I have always looked at it from the perspective of the electoral college *only*. A true "landslide" in my opinion is anything where the winner gets more than 2/3rds of the EVs. Which Obama clearly won.
While the popular vote is an important factor in approving of the candidate, the EV is the one that really matters (see Bush / Gore for proof). Just like how I hated that in 2000, Democrats went around saying, "Well, Gore won the popular vote so he really won!" which wasn't true -- it wasn't like the Electoral College suddenly appeared that election, Gore knew it was coming and failed to get enough states with enough EVs to fall for him.
Based on this reasoning, I'd say the Electoral College is where you need to look, and any victory of a 2/3rd margin can be considered a landslide. McCain didn't need to change 2% of the vote (much less how far down below 50% McCain was... apparently, Repubs don't use "math" See - Economy), McCain needed to change up to 10% of the vote in certain areas of the country.
Therefore, in my opinion this election *clearly* is a landslide.
Although, as noted, it is not a mandate. Democrats seem to not get "mandates" unless they get over 75% of the vote, while Republicans get "mandates" if they so much as win the popular vote. Barely.
Who agrees / disagrees?
"Love him. He knows how get things done and he is a comfort to the markets. "
Ouch the mnarkets must hate Obama!
LOL
I think he was a smart pick. You need an oiperative who can get things done.
Tjhey say he is too partisan. We'll see. I like the fact that he is devout Jew and is probly more than able to keep Pelosi and Reid and the Congressional wackos on the left wing finge (most of 'em) in line.
I wish them luck, really.
I gotta live here too!
John
Any allocation of EVs in part based on House districts would mean that a Dem candidate would likely need a PV victory of at least 4-5 points to have a chance of winning. It is basically a scheme to ensure a GOP victory except for near-landslides.
As far as trolls go, this is NOTHING. Even though I question the level of various concerns expressed, there is some thought evidenced and, as such, responses can be appropriate.
For those of you who want to discuss other things, throw it out there.
RE: Rahm--he's a bit nuts and he's widely viewed to be an asshole. That said, you have to be a bit nuts to deal with Congress and assholes get stuff done. I'm betting that he's going to tick off both the far right and far left in short order
badgerhair,
You are correct that tax reform requires legislation so who knows what will come out of Congress. Although not tax related, the best example is Clinton's promise of ending the ban to gays in the military. He got in office and found out that resistance was much higher than he thought.
The difference here is that, I believe, Obama will have well formed facts and policies to back any of his proposals. His proposals will not be passed 100% but there will likely be sane negotiations along the way.
The Electoral college is no palce to look for a landslide. It shwos breadth but not depth of a victory.
You can even win it w/o willing the pop vote.
As far as trolling goes.
You all wnet after my thought-provoking commntary on Auntie Zeituni, but only one of you picked up the thread on Rahm Emmanuel.
Mmmmmm . . . .
The President-elect made a restructured tax plan a major feature of his campaign, but what power does he actually have to implement it? In the UK, changes to tax rates require legislation. If it's the same in the US, then it's up to Congress to rip his tax plan to shreds if they so desire.
It does require legislation. In fact tax legislation must start in the House of Representatives (rather than the Senate), though the President can tell them what he wants to see. The House drafts the bill, passes it by majority and then sends it to the Senate. The Senate can either pass it by majority and then send it to the President for final approval or amend it and pass it by majority. In the later case the bill returns to the House for a vote (or amendments) until the bill is passed, unchanged, by both the Senate and the House, and then ultimately signed by the President.
Note that the President can veto any Bill. Though somewhat theatrical and typically used sparingly (though more often than say Queen of England not signing legislation in Britain), this power does give the Whitehouse a decent amount of influence in the shaping of legislation before it reaches the Whitehouse.
That said there could be a chance he'll get the tax change through but it'd be tight in the Senate AND until the 3rd week of January he'll be relying on the very slim pre-election Senate majority (that depends on Leibermann) and GW Bush signing the bill into law.
PK, you can't win 2/3 of the EV and not have a large popular vote lead. McCryptKeeper couldn't even get 47%.
"That said, you have to be a bit nuts to deal with Congress and assholes get stuff done."
The job of COS is to be an enforcer, you need someone who is smart, is respected on both sides, and tough, and will back the President.
Emanuel fits that perfectly.
Mason,
Thanks again. Your keen insight and shrewd understanding of every discussion is helpful, whether we agree or not.
VOTM,
I'll give him half a chance. For God's sake, I don't think we can afford things getting too much worse or we really will be in a heap of shit.
I think we're looking at the issue from two different angles and obvious tints on our glasses. You, an optimist in his corner, saw how he was bastardized by the extreme right, which has made it easy to label ther opinions of him as an obvious hypocritical caricature, which it is.
But don't think everyone sees it that way.
As a skeptic (cynic, maybe?), I saw a man whose limited record of accomplishment and experience would lead one (some) to think he is from the far Left end of politics. I wouldn't go near the word "terrorist" as some have - which is disgusting - but I won't back down from my opinion he has socialist or quasi-socialist leanings. However, we got very little of a taste for that during the campaign. We got the centrist Obama. But again, that's him "speaking" not "doing." He's trying to win an election.
It's my belief that he moved to the center to get elected - because you can't get elected from the Left given the cons, lib, moderate breakdwon, even with the Repub brand tarnished. And it's my belief he'll move left when in office.
How far left? Hopefully not so far that his actions exacerbate the existing problems in the country and alienate the electorate and create further divisions.
But we'll see.
BTW Dou you all like Rahm Emmanuel?
No - NAFTA and other trade agreements that he has supported in the past.
A couple of interesting stories out of congress, the Senate Appropiations committee gets some young blood as chairman with the resignation of Sen Harry Byrd
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/07/1663273.aspx
(Daniel Innouye is 84!)
And it really is time to kick Lieberman out of the caucus.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/07/1663036.aspx
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/07/1663265.aspx
I think Rahm will be a great success and replace Biden as VEEP in 2012.
"You all wnet after my thought-provoking commntary on Auntie Zeituni, but only one of you picked up the thread on Rahm Emmanuel."
thought provoking?
You meant to spew inducing?
It is sad that stupid people don't have the clarity to know that they are stupid.
"Work a soup kitchen, food depository, or a USO and you are a patriot. Protest a war loudly or fight a war humbly and you are a patriot. Stand up for the oppressed and you are a patriot. Create a job so a guy can get by in bad times and you are a patriot. Balance a budget so our kids are not saddled by debt and you are a patriot."
Beautiful, VOTM.
On a less serious note:
"Is it because you had dirty pix up there on flickr, you pervs?"
Well, they had to host the porn pics SOMEWHERE until after the election...
Eudio: A beautiful sound. "After 8 years of meaningless drivel, we listened to the eudio of Obama's first press conference as President-Elect.
MR-
I think what VOTM is getting at that there are those on the right who believe that the GOP lost beacuse it wasn't conservative enough. They are now pointing out as evidince of this - "Obama's Centrist Agenda." Prima facie, this is silly. His agenda is the same as it was last week when these same people were calling the same items "Socialism". You can say that he may have been a socialist in the (far) past because of his deeds and may not be any more because of his agenda, but you cannot say his agenda was socialist on Monday and centrist on Friday when nothing has changed about it.
PeteKent said...
Ouch the mnarkets must hate Obama!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
President Elect Barack HUSSEIN Obama gave his first post-victory press conference today and the markets closed gaining 248 points
Oops. debunked
On Rahm Emanuel, seems like just the kind of guy any President needs. Personally, I think he would have made a good speaker in not to long from now, but if Obama wants him to serve in a more direct way, more quickly, thats fine.
RE: Rahm--he's a bit nuts and he's widely viewed to be an asshole. That said, you have to be a bit nuts to deal with Congress and assholes get stuff done. I'm betting that he's going to tick off both the far right and far left in short order
The job he's getting is a grisly grinding one, that's why it tends to have a lot of turnover. He's hard driving guy that knows the lay of Congress. He'll be able to work with the near side of the GOP (not that there is much left of that) and he's known and has got pull with the Dems. He'll do his job. If Obama tempers that with bipartisan olive branches and pragmatic, logical goals Rahm's more prickly nature should be fine for X amount of time.
But he'll have a shelf life for sure. They all do in that job.
I apologize if I've been "feeding the trolls." I know we're supposed to be discussing the press conference here, but since votes are still being counted and processed all the time, I thought it was still okay to talk about the latest figures.
On that topic, another pretty good election scoreboard is Daily Kos's, especially since they include the total votes cast so far:
http://scoreboard.dailykos.com/map/
PK,
don't forget that as both Obama and Emanuel are Illinoisian residents, the EC voters from that state couldn't vote for both, so unlikely to happen.
Personally, unless his health becimes a serious concern, I would expect Biden to serve out 2 terms as VP (If Obama is reelected)
WV dicist- what McCain is on his trips to Vegas.
"I think Rahm will be a great success and replace Biden as VEEP in 2012."
Yes, I know I am feeding the trolls PK and Ass Rider, but I am a supporter of PETT(people for the ethical treatment of trolls).
You need a civics lesson. The President and VP can not be from the same state.
Interestingly, JFK didn't have a Chief of Staff. Lots of insiders and aides, but none designated as Chief of Staff. (only Presidetn since the job was inaugurated not to have one)
It is silly to grade the effect of the press conference by initial stock market reaction, but at one point early during it, the DJ was up only around 70 points, then rebounded by an hour later to be up 248, despite awful unemployment and GM news today.
david,
Presidetn and BVice President can be from the same state, but voters from that state cannot vote for both in the electoral college, which is why it doesn't happen.
How cool is it that they gave press credentials to 538.com?
Almost as cool as change.gov, IMHO!
"It is silly to grade the effect of the press conference by initial stock market reaction, but at one point early during it, the DJ was up only around 70 points, then rebounded by an hour later to be up 248, despite awful unemployment and GM news today."
The right wing nutbags blamed the drop on Wednesday on Obama, despite the negative financial reports that were released.
The right wing nutbags blamed the drop on Wednesday on Obama, despite the negative financial reports that were released.
Imagine that... A company says it will make less money and it's stock goes down? Wow.
Oh... Can't forget about the jobless reports.
BREAKING NEWS
Obama wins electoral vote in NE-02
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10481441
PeteKent said...
Mason,
Why should I shut up?
Immigration is now the responsibility of Pres Obama. I think how he handles his Aunt's case will be instructive.
You cannot silence opposition or still observation.
You lack of concern for this poor woman shows that youa re as callous as Obama. Pretend to care aobut people, but don't get your hands dirty.
Go on a mission trip!
November 7, 2008 2:39 PM
@Petey,
For instance , lets imagine the opposite case:
Obama Helped His aunt being naturalized.
Du you think that GOP wouldn’t have brought up the case during the campaign ?
Don’t you think it would have ended up even whit a lot more tons of shit from you over Obama ?
So there is no way out for poor Barack, both ways ,no way to escape from you.
Fortunately right now a have the “macaroni italiani”solution:
Obama will send back to Kenia His aunt Zeituni Onyango.
There will be a job for her in the US embassy as translator from English to Swahili .
Whit that job She will get enough money to afford a rent in a decent house in her home state.
Then the “Zeituni ‘s” fairy tale will be over ,we’ll be all happy and you finally will shut the f*** up.
Agree ?
David,
Funny you make a play on PETA...your buddies. I guess you see their latest stunt. They were able to get prop 2 passed in California, which will essentially end conventional production methods used by producers in that state. They're trying to drive animal agriculture out of business.
Nice. Real nice. The party who champions egalitarianism and support for the proletariat is trying to make it so they can't afford basic food staples. I can't wait till that backfires on your idiot moonbat asses.
The Dude Abides said...
BREAKING NEWS
Obama wins electoral vote in NE-02
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10481441
Caucasians for everyone!!
Either Obama could change his residence to DC or Emmanuel can change his to his DC/VA/MD home. That problem is easily achieved.
That both have deep Chicago roots might be an issue, although they both come from different worlds and previous residences.
I do think Biden might be replaced in 2012 - possibly to become Sec'y of State, or retire (at 70).
Then Obama would try to pick his successor and also shake things up for reelection - Emmanuel, Clinton, Brian Schweitzer, Sebelius - who knows?
Emmanuel is very ambitious - he wanted to be Speaker of the House, which is now more difficult (although there is a route down the line - the Speaker does NOT have to be a member of the House, but just anyone citizen 25 or older). He might try to run for governor of Illinois in 2014 depending on whether there is a Dem incumbent, although that might seem a step down from Chief of Staff.
I ve always wondered about Petek given his previously long posts on very recise points attempting to change the debate in the election.
I kinda guessed he was a volunteer being told what to say by some low paid mccain staffer somewhere.
On that basis i'd like thank pete for showing me what the social issue the gop will try to get bo mixed up in, wasting valuable time and energy early on to no great effect [like gays in the military in 92]
apart from that everyone should leave him alone, do you think he is interested in discussion? or anothers viewpoint, he is just trying to annoy and test talking points among indies.
genne - the trend for using wv in your posts seems to be genne
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