The new set of battleground state polling from Mason-Dixon provides a terrific working example of what we call "house effects" -- a poll's consistent tendency to lean toward one candidate or another. Throughout this election cycle, we have found that Mason-Dixon's polls lean 2-3 points more toward John McCain than the average of other polls taken in those states at the same time.
Here are the Mason-Dixon polls released within the past 72 hours in eight key battleground states, along with a comparison to our current trendline-adjusted averages:
In all of these states but Florida, Mason-Dixon came in below our average (although in some cases not by much). On balance, their polls were 2.5 points more favorable to McCain than the average -- exactly where our model had pegged Mason-Dixon polls going in.
But! -- you might protest -- maybe these numbers are more favorable to McCain because your averages are out of date, and this election is trending toward McCain!
Well, not really. Because if you compare these polls against the last time Mason-Dixon was in the field in these states, Obama hasn't really lost any ground. (Actually, he's gained a bit, but not any statistically significant amount).
...to make this clear for the nth time, the presence of a house effect does not mean that a pollster is partisan or "biased". Mason-Dixon is a non-partisan pollster. Nor does it mean that a pollster is wrong! Mason-Dixon has a pretty good track record. Their vision of the electorate -- which seems to point toward a narrow Obama electoral victory -- could very easily turn out to be the right one. But it does mean that you need to take these sorts of things into account to make sure that you're making apples-to-apples comparisons.
11.02.2008
House Effects in Action
by Nate Silver @ 12:02 PM...see also house effects, mason-dixon, pollsters
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277 comments
No lean
Why does MD have such a time lag. Their polls today were conducted 10/28-10/30?
That's assuming that the "trend-adjusted" data is correct. I would say that fivethirtyeight's methods have a significant left-leaning slant. We'll see on election day.
Thanks Nate for all your informative, timely, relevant posts these days. This site totally rocks.
@bob
They were holding them for mtp today.
Nate: Most of these MD polls were also in the field a few days ago and aren't all that recent considering that there is been a slight bump for Obama following the Wednesday night 30 minute closing ad.
I'm beginning to think that Nate is moving into the role of a web therapist, preemptively talking the obsessed off of ledges . . .
Getting irritated at your readers Nate? The majority understand how polling works.
I think Mason Dix is not catching a trend TOWARD Obama... Look at the Zoby O+10 last night and the Gallup recents...
I'll be making calls for AT LEAST 5 HOURS A DAY FOR THE NEXT THREE DAYS.
ANY OBAMA PERSON ON THIS BLOG WHO DOES NOT DO SOME CALLING IS THE--
TRUE ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It;s looking like the 10/31 and 11/1 polls are turning back towards Obama. McCain did make up some ground in PA, but I suspect it's too little, too late. Like almost everything about his campaign.
WV: icsque
SurveyUSA - Virginia
O - 50%
M - 46%
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=bccf3ebd-67cc-4a9d-a5fb-c77588567594
Going off the name alone and making a completely unsupported assertion, I would expect a polling firm named "Mason-Dixon" to be a Southern firm and form a hypothesis that their house effect comes from them taking a traditional Southern electorate (lots of Democrats, but also lots of crossover voters) and applying it nationwide. Their voting model would be showing a substantially +D electorate with a substantial portion of that electorate voting Republican.
How right am I?
Nate: Could you clarify how you account for 3rd party candidates in your model? It seems that your current projections would only show about 1.2 percent of the vote not allocated to McCain or Obama, but most of the other national polls show the third parties getting a combined 3-4 percent of the popular vote.
If Republican leading polls have Obama in the lead then I am happy - we are going into Election Day in a good position - and on November 5 we can stop worrying again
are there more polls coming outr today?
i really hope nate is right. i want this election to be over so bad.
of course when it is over i am going to have to go back to finding a life again.
I would say that fivethirtyeight's methods have a significant left-leaning slant. We'll see on election day.
Are you talking about the 538 Regressions or the weightings assigned to the polls? Because both were derived using pretty straight-forward econometric methods. If you are going to accuse Nate's methodology of bias, at the very least you should specify what you object to (let alone substantiate the charge).
I wonder if any polling companies change their procedure midway through a contest. If so, how would 538 correct for such a change?
In many of these states, nearly a majority have already voted (in some states, the majority HAS voted), and exit polls show a HUGE lead for Obama among these early voters. Could this somehow be skewing the polls to favor McCain artificially?
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Nov. 02
Obama 364 McCain 171
Nov. 02 2004
Kerry 262 Bush 261
Brilliant Nate.
What annoys me is MSNBC touting its poll as evidence of closing. They are comparing their poll to other polls and are touting it as a closing race.
That is not the case.
You can't compare poll to poll. You have to compare one poll to the last poll for trends.
This race isn't closing. It is remarkably stable, and depending on turnout, it looks like that will determine the size of the Obama victory.
The number of undecideds in the polls is ridiculous. There aren't that many truly undecideds out there.
LOL Exit polls showed a big lead for Kerry in 2004!
You libs never learn!
States considered Swing States at one point or another Projection:
(somewhat difficult because we don't now exactly whose name appears as third part candidates in each state. I'm in texas. Bob Barr is on te ballot, Nader is not.)
National Obama +4.9%
Kerry Blue States
Oregon Obama +13
Washington Obama +12
Michigan Obama +11
Wisconsin Obama +10
Minnesota Obama +10
Maine district 2 Obama +9
New Hampshire Obama +9
Pennsylvania Obama +7
Bush Red States
New Mexico Obama +12
Iowa Obama +10
Nevada Obama +10
Virginia Obama +8
Colorado Obama +7
Ohio Obama +5
Florida Obama +4
North Carolina Obama +2
Missouri Tied (within 1 point)
Georgia Tied (within 1 point)
Indiana McCain +2
North Dakota McCain +3
Arizona McCain +3
Mississippi McCain +3
Montana McCain +4
Louisiana McCain +5
Omaha McCain +6
Tennessee McCain +7
West Virginia McCain +7
Arkansas McCain +8
Obama wins between 349-375 electoral votes
Popular vote
Obama 51.4
McCain 46.5
Barr 1.2
Nader 0.8
Mckinney 0.1
59 Dem Senators (including Liberman and Sanders)
134,000,000 total voters
What do you think? Too low on turnout? Obama's popular vote margin?
John Fund is quite possibly the biggest douchebeag outside of the FOX propagandists.
The problem with this logic is that it doesn't take into account the national movement in those states since the prior polls were taken. So for example, the poll from 9/17 in PA? Of course Obama has improved since then; he did everywhere. Same with the 9/30 poll in CO. I suppose the previous polls done in Oct are from a period where Obama was not necessarily worse off than now. But that's where we see some McCain improvement. So I'd still be worried that the current M-D polls reflect some movement. Though I totally agree that you still have to consider that M-D has a republican lean.
As for the person who said that this site has a left-leaning trend adjustment, that doesn't make much sense; Nate has averaged the pollsters against each other, and some have left leans so he discounts those. I suppose ALL polls on average could have a left lean, but how are you supposed to know that in advance of writing the model? For all we know the average might lean right.
Mason-Dixon is the only state pollster that has a worthy record over the last three cycles.
Survey USA had been terrible. Quinn has been a disaster outside of the Northeast and Gallup not good.
Two days until the McCain Victory Speech......
The polls are closing and McCain is surging, libs.
jack-be-nimble said...
Mason-Dixon is the only state pollster that has a worthy record over the last three cycles.
Survey USA had been terrible. Quinn has been a disaster outside of the Northeast and Gallup not good.
ROFL
SurveyUSA - Virginia
O - 50%
M - 46%
What was the spread the last time this pollster did VA?
johnny said...
What annoys me is MSNBC touting its poll as evidence of closing. They are comparing their poll to other polls and are touting it as a closing race.
I think it's fine to compare one poll to an average. After all that's what nate just did. Not so?
We are working hard in Montana. Will make EVERY effort to win this state.
Nate's prediction compared to mine:
Nate says 347 electoral votes for Barack with a 7.2% margin of victory.
He thinks Obama wins Indiana (or Missouri) and North Dakota, I don't.
I believe Obama wins Ohio, he doesn't.
My popular vote prediction is 4.9%, though I'd guess it'll probably end up somewhere between the 4.9% I'm saying and 7.2% Nate predicts
And in VA, the polls are closing fast, closing real fast. McCain is surging to the finish line.....
Mason-Dixon has a right-lean. Maybe it's justified. The better bet IMO is that their wrong.
Undecideds will swing in a 4-1 margin for McCain. With such a large amount being Undecided, I would say the MD polls are right on line. Remember how high Obama overpolled in the Democrat primaries against Hillary? VA, PA, and OH are very dangerous grounds for Obama. Nothing is safely Obama until the fat lady sings.
Obama is like Usain Bolt, jogging to the finish line, thumping his chest. He's going to win comfortably.
So basically, any pollster that shows Obama below 50% (Bollocks!) and has McCain within five is the goods, according to conservatrolls.
Or more specifically, any poll that FReeptards masterbate to. Mason-Dixon, AP/Dunkin' Donuts, IBD/TIPP.
After reading Nate's therapeutic post, I went back to the original Pollster article that he referenced in August. It's worth rereading:
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/how_pollsters_affect_poll_resu.php
I've always wondered why polling orgs don't constantly try to improve their results even within a cycle. Why don't they correct for house effect themselves? Charles Franklin's Pollster article, in part, answers this question (it's hard to know what a house effect of zero would be prior to an election), but Nate's analysis indicates that there are other methods of estimating house effect.
Another tidbit I gleaned from Franklin was polling gyration. Zogby may have a low house effect, but still be wildly inaccurate because the numbers gyrate without reason. It's clear from Zogby's veiled criticism of Nate (baseball cards) that he's the type who isn't interested in perfecting his methodology.
"Undecideds will swing in a 4-1 margin for McCain"
It really annoys me when people make very strong, unsubstantiated statements like they're undeniable fact. I agree there's a good chance they break for McCain, but 80%??
I love hearing Republicans say McCain is closing fast. This merely helps inspire Democrats to GOTV. Thanks!!
In the Ohio Democrat Primary, the final RCP average was Clinton ahead by 6.1
She won by 9.2. Three points better than the polls.
McCain will do the same in PA. Rasmussen has it within 4.
What now, libs?
Virginia SUSA lastt week Obama +9
This week Obama +4
SUSA's been volatile, we'll see if they're accurate.
Pennsylvania 38/38 polls over 5+ weeks from 17 pollsters have Obama ahead.
PA has been bluer/Dem than the resto f the nation in terms of popular vote vs Pennsylvania vote every election since 1948. It also has been this entire cycle in the polls.
Same in the PA Democrat Primary, Clinton BEAT THE POLL AVERAGE BY THREE!
What do you think of that LIBS?
Mason-Dixon is the only state pollster that has a worthy record over the last three cycles.
JBN - did you see their ridiculous numbers in the primaries? They underestimated BHO's lead by almost 10 pts in 3 states.
Undecideds will swing in a 4-1 margin for McCain.
What is your evidence for that?
@ Seretse
What MSNBC does is suggest McCain has gained, let's say, four points in a day by taking one poll with Obama leading by six points and then contrasting it with a poll where Obama leads by two. That's not a four point movement, it's a four point difference between the polls. MSNBC never clarifies this though.
I couldn't find any info on whether these Mason-Dixon polls included Early Voters.
I won't credit fully any NC poll without an Early Voter sample, given that 40% of NC's registered voters have already voted. It doesn't matter if the particular sample that M-D happened to call prefers McCain. What I want to know is, how have they been voting???
Ok I'm not a troll, Obamabot or any of those things you guys call people sometimes, but I come here a lot because you guys seem to know what's going on and I am nervously waiting for Tuesday. I'm hoping Obama wins and it looks good poll wise but...
I just read some articles that Obama bragged on "hidden audio" to SF Chronicle that he'd bankrupt the coal industry. The right wing media is on it. They are trying to say that he could lose PA over it.
Should we be worried about this??
With such a large amount being Undecided
From what I've read, the amount of undecideds this time around is no more than usual.
1. There is no definite proof that undecideds will swing definitely to McCain... both Mark Blumenthal at pollster.com and Nate here have done actual statistical analyses and have determined that there will not be a huge McCain surge from undecideds at the end.
2. Obama did not over-poll in the primaries. If you want to cherry-pick the polls, yeah, he over-polled. In general and on average for the primaries, though, with a couple notable exceptions, Obama performed exactly as he was predicted to.
Nice try to spin, though.
George Will would be big-time surprised if Obama does not McCain by a greater margin than George HW Bush beat Michael Dukakis by. That number was 7.8%. Will believes the last 48 hours will break for Obama.
What I do not understand, Nate, is that you have attributed "House Effect" to ineffective weighting in some cases and you seem to have the internals (raw unweighted values), so, if you think you have better weights, why don't you reweight the aggregate values?
PA GOP hits Obama on Wright
BREAKING:
OBAMA SYAS HE WOULD "BANKRUPT" COAL INDUSTRY IN PA!
DEVELOPING.....
Obama underpolled vs Clinton in many primaries. North Carolina, Virginia, Wisconsin, Georgia big time.
thanks for this Nate... you are super.
Been fixating on the MD polls for a while now. However, they made me nervous enough (along with your "Pennsylvania in play" comment last night, btw thanks for the not so sweet dreams)to set up an impromptu call bank at my house today. So, I guess it could work in our favor...?
I don't know when you could possibly be sleeping these days, but I hear starbucks is giving free coffee to voters on Nov. 4th...
Don't know I'd be getting through this without the 538 triumvirate of Nate, Sean and Brett, tip of the hat!
I just read some articles
Did these articles also talk about Obama's "real" father and how Ayers actually wrote his autobiographies?
I just read some articles that Obama bragged on "hidden audio" to SF Chronicle that he'd bankrupt the coal industry.
Link?
I'm a little worried about the +4 single day from R2000. I'm at the point where I want nothing but good news :)
This is an inspiring video.
Oh, LMFAO, it's from NewsBusters.
ROFL.
I come here everyday and feel more assured, but...how much faith can we really put into polls?
Do Something!
http://imjustsayin-clemo.blogspot.com/2008/11/if-youre-going-through-hellkeep-going.html
Jack said...
@ Seretse
What MSNBC does is suggest McCain has gained, let's say, four points in a day by taking one poll with Obama leading by six points and then contrasting it with a poll where Obama leads by two. That's not a four point movement, it's a four point difference between the polls. MSNBC never clarifies this though.
Ok now I see.
I think we can call NC through early voting for Obama. The demographics are just gone for McCain. Same for Colorado and Nevada. Georgia is getting close.
Nate, this site is Xanax for us election obsessors. Thanks for all your help.
@me: I don't think there is any particular left/right lean of 538s numbers in the way you mean. They assume that the 'mean' house effect of pollsters with a good track record is about where the election should be. That is not inherently partisan, though it may be incorrect.
I do think that 538's treatment of house effect may favor the leader, which has been Obama for most of this cycle. Basically, I think that if we had exactly three 'reliable' pollsters which reliably said Obama+9, Obama+4, and McCain+1, the model would average them out to Obama+4 and give him a large advantage in the win percentage. That is one reasonable interpretation, but another is to assume exactly one pollster is dead on, and then McCain has a 1/3 chance of winning.
There is at least one countering force, which is that pollsters often understate their statistical error. Statistical error is usually decreased when you weight your sample by party affiliation, age, gender, or whatever. If you take the quoted statistical error at face value you will overestimate the variation. Of course, this effect should be pretty small now since the huge numbers of polls released in the past couple weeks means the statistical error is very small no matter how you calculate, and systematic error is everything.
PA is blue
Doh !!
LOL
Making some calls for Obama today. First call went great, a 64-year old Missouri man, already voted absentee for Obama. Says his grandkids are now old enough to vote and he's going to try to get them out on Tuesday.
The audio is REAL libs, it's on YouTube!
Thank you Nate for the analysis.
I as well as many other, I'm sure. appreciate it.
InkStain said...
I think we can call NC through early voting for Obama. The demographics are just gone for McCain. Same for Colorado and Nevada. Georgia is getting close.
Did you notice the three point uptick in youth voting percentage
right wing conspiricist said...
The audio is REAL libs, it's on YouTube!
rwc
don't listen to the Messiah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7iObjJXHNU
here it is on the Obama coal "quotes". Sorry, I am not biting.
"I just read some articles that Obama bragged on "hidden audio" to SF Chronicle that he'd bankrupt the coal industry."
I 100% guarantee that's either a falsehood or taken way out of context. Obama has been consistently in favor of using federal resouces to develop clean coal technology, which in no way would bankrupt the coal industry.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/not_coming_clean_on_coal.html
"Did you notice the three point uptick in youth voting percentage"
No, but I'm glad for it.
more BS
LOL
We should start predicting what the other side will be saying on Wednesday. I've made a stab at it: My Republican Friends, This Is Really A Victory!.
The audio is REAL libs, it's on YouTube!
He's talking about cap and trade legislation, not ruining an industry. Coal power operators would be free to purchase credits on the market, upgrade their equipment, or invest in so-called clean coal technology that Obama is supporting.
This is not a talking point, but the Obama camp should intervene so that it doesn't become one through misunderstanding.
I've been reading this site for a while now, and I've been wondering about the psychological curiosity that is the conservative "troll" post, and what the rational behind them might be. Are these statements actual beliefs that people have? Wish-casting? Pathetic attempts to coerce a few weak-minded people by using over-confidence? Or conversely, Obama supporters trying to make sure people don't get complacent? Or lastly, just some losers that have no life and get their kicks by annoying people? Anyone have any insight?
Justin32099-
Thanks for your reply. It was the only non-snobby and condescending one I saw.
http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html
Have a look.
"I just read some articles..."
just think about this for one minute. 1 WHY would ANYONE want to bankrupt the coal industry? 2if they actually did want to, WHY would they TELL anyone? And 3 (the killer) why would Obama, who hasn't put a foot wrong for months, suddenly go completely bonkers and make such a stupid statement?
Now we see the true desperation of the right wing nutjobs. This kind of crap is RIDICULOUS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7iObjJXHNU
That is PATHETIC.
He says that you won't be able to build any NEW coal plants. Not that he'd bankrupt the industry. Good GOD.
NEW YOU TUBE AUDIO OF THE COAL STATEMENT!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2pw
Just more twisting of Obama's words from the GOP. Listen right wing lunatics. We've had it with you. Bush/McCain will lose on Tuesday and they will lose big.
VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA.
VoteForChange.com
Nate--some confusion here
Please clarify in the text. In that first table, does the "trend adjusted average" include M-D polls? It would be more instructive of that average excluded the M-D polls, if what you're trying to show is how M-D differed from the "average of other polls."
WV: galifyin
Thanks, Nate. It's good to put these polls in perspective. As you say, there aren't any right or wrong polls, but polls definitely lean compared to others.
I think age will have a big effect on some of these states:
Age and The Electoral College
Have you noticed that the GOP attacks on Obama jump from one thing to another each and every day? Why is that? Because none of the attacks on Obama have any weight at all. They are all BS.
"right wing lunatics"
LOL.
Just about sums them up!
THE MESSIAH ARRIVES...
CONTINUING COVERAGE ON THE FOX NEWS CHANNEL
Only two days left folks, these pollsters will be put to the test come Tuesday. After this landslide we will see who was a partisan hack and who knew exactly where the numbers would be.
accidental hippie
...sorry if I was condescending. Have faith!
And obcbr
the trolls do it for all the reasons you gave! Keeps the site interesting.....
I reckon Nate should post something on the young vote. The MSM aare saying there is no evidence they've voted, yet.
Also, is he planning on projecting the final numbers?
Nathan Silver = Jewish Sam Wang
Actually, looking at the early vote numbers, I'm getting the sense that Republicans just aren't going to show up for John McCain.
Campbell Brown is one dumb bint.
I apologize for not remembering who brought this up on the last thread. (I am still working with a partially diabled mouse and don't have the time to go through all of it).
Question is whether the undecideds, who are truly undecided, will be less likely to go vote, stay in line, fight if they are challenged, etc.
Although from personal experience in having my voting rights interfered with ('88), there is nothing as motivational in getting MORE involved in politics than having any problems with being allowed to vote.
no reason to post but the wv
deaduare - yes GOP, deaduare!!!!
Nate's polling analysis isn't fixed, but I'm absolutely sure there's something weird going on with the wv
porridgegun said...
Campbell Brown is one dumb bint.
she's a crazy bitch
Stood in line in Richmond Va for five hours yesterday to vote for Obama. Vast majority of others in line doing the same. No one left, no one complained, many first time voters, many first time Dems. Many waited longer, some have waited a lifetime.
Nate on video with pics from high school debate days -- in connection with being named one of the notable "40 under 40" young Chicago businessmen for 2008.
That Cheney endorsing McCain ad is one of few I've actually half-liked from the Obama camapaign. I've noticed that when they put these ads out quickly, going on instinct rather than testing them with focus groups, are waaaay better. The last one they rushed out was the 7 Houses ad.
53 hours until first polls close in Indiana and Kentucky.
58 hours until winnner is declared - (estimate).
McCain's Association: DICK CHENEY.
The right wing lunatics keep whining about Obama's "associations" with well respected professors like Bill Ayers. But McCain has much bigger problems than that.
A vote for McCain is a vote for Bush/Cheney.
Two days until the McCain/Palin victory...
Three days at the most after a recount in Penna.
The "bankrupt the coal industry" quote is just Obama explaining how "cap and trade" works. He specifically said that it would bankrupt any one wishing to open a new coal-fired power plant. They would have to "trade" for carbon credits to go over the "cap".
Republicans support "cap and trade"! John McCain supports "cap and trade".
This is complete idiocy from the wingnuts.
Right Wing Conspiricist [sic] is almost trying to make a point, so let me add:
Obama doesn't need Pennsylvania to win.
re: the coal thing. Even Drudge doesn't care.
Here's something being thrown around and being praised as gospel on BuzzDash.com, a question/answer site that is dominated by fringe right wing nutjobs. It's pretty funny that "Anonymous_14" is their savior!
What you were never intended to know in this election
A Hillary staffer comes clean
Posted by: Anonymous_14
Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 04:52PM CDT
30 Comments
After a long and careful consideration of all the implications and possible consequences of my actions today, I have decided to go through with this in the hope that our country can indeed be guided into the right direction. First, a little personal background… I am a female grad student in my 20’s, and a registered Democrat. During the primaries, I was a campaign worker for the Clinton candidacy. I believed in her and still do, staying all the way to the bitter end. And believe me, it was bitter. The snippets you’ve heard from various media outlets only grazed the surface. There was no love between the Clinton and Obama campaigns, and these feelings extended all the way to the top. Hillary was no dope though, and knew that any endorsement of Obama must appear to be a full-fledged one. She did this out of political survival. As a part of his overall effort to extend an olive branch to the Clinton camp and her supporters, Obama took on a few Hillary staff members into his campaign. I was one such worker. Though I was still bitterly loyal to Hillary, I still held out hope that he would choose her as VP. In fact, there was a consensus among us transplants that in the end, he HAD to choose her. It was the only logical choice. I also was committed to the Democratic cause and without much of a second thought, transferred my allegiance to Senator Obama.
I’m going to let you in on a few secrets here, and this is not because I enjoy the gossip or the attention directed my way. I’m doing this because I doubt much of you know the true weaknesses of Obama. Another reason for my doing this is that I am lost faith in this campaign, and feel that this choice has been forced on many people in this country. Put simply, you are being manipulated. That was and is our job – to manipulate you (the electorate) and the media (we already had them months ago). Our goal is to create chaos with the other side, not hope. I’ve come to the realization (as the campaign already has) that if this comes to the issues, Barack Obama doesn’t have a chance. His only chance is to foster disorganization, chaos, despair, and a sense of inevitability among the Republicans. It has worked up until now. Joe the Plumber has put the focus on the issues again, and this scares us more than anything. Being in a position to know these things, I will rate what the Obama campaign already knows are their weak links from the most important on down.
1 – Hillary voters. Internal polling suggests that at best, we are taking 70-75% of these voters. Other estimates are as low as 60% in some areas – particularly Ohio and western PA. My biggest problem with this campaign’s strategy was the decision NOT to offer Hillary the VP slot. She was ready and able to take this on, and would have campaigned enthusiastically for it. This selection would have also brought virtually all of her supporters into the fold, and the Obama campaign knew it. Though I have no way of knowing this for certain, and I do admit that I am relying on internal gossip, Senator Obama actually went against the advice of his top advisors. They wanted him to choose her, but the only significant opposition to this within the campaign came from Barack and Michelle Obama. In short, he let personal feelings take precedence over what was the most logical thing to do. Biden, by the way, has been a disaster inside the campaign. Everyone cringes whenever he gives an interview, and he creates so many headaches as the campaign has to stay on their toes in order to disseminate information and spin whatever it was he was trying to say.
2 – Sarah Palin. Don’t believe what the media is telling you about how horrible a choice she was. Again, our internal polling suggest that though she has had a minimal impact on pulling disaffected Hillary Democrats to McCain, she has done wonders in mobilizing the base for McCain. Another thing – we were completely taken by surprise with her pick. In my capacity in the research department, I looked into the backgrounds of Leiberman, Romney, Pawlenty and Ridge, and prepared briefs. I don’t mind bragging that we had pretty good stuff on all of them. With Leiberman, the plan was to paint him as an erratic old-timer who didn’t have a clue as to what he was doing (pretty much a clone of McCain). In Romney, we had him pegged as an evil capitalist who cut jobs. Pawlenty was going to get the “Quayle treatment”, or more precisely: a pretty face, with no valid experience. Tom Ridge was going to be used to provide a direct link from McCain to Bush. As you can see, we were quite enamored of all of them. Then the unexpected happened – Sarah Palin. We had no clue as to how to handle her, and bungled it from the start. Though through our misinformation networks, we have successfully taken some of the shine off. But let there be no doubt. She remains a major obstacle. She has singlehanded solidified “soft” Republican support, mobilized the McCain ground game, and has even had some appeal to independents and Hillary voters. This is what our internal polling confirms.
3 – Obama’s radical connections. Standards operating procedure has been to cry “racism” whenever one of these has been brought up. We even have a detailed strategy ready to go should McCain ever bring Rev. Wright up. Though by themselves they are of minimal worth, taken together, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Father Pfelger, and now, Rashid Khalili, are exactly what the campaign does not need. The more focus on them, the more this election becomes a referendum on Obama. The campaign strategy from the very beginning was to make this election a referendum on Bush. Strategists have been banging their head on how successfully McCain has distanced himself from Bush. This has worked, and right now the tide is in his favor. People are taking a new look at Barack Obama, and our experience when this happens tells us this is not good news at all. When they take a look at him, one or more of these names are bound to be brought up. McCain has wisely not harped on this in recent weeks and let voters decide for themselves. This was a trap we set for him, and he never fully took the bait. Senator Obama openly dared him to bring up Ayers. This was not due to machismo on the part of Obama, but actually due to campaign strategy. Though McCain’s reference to Ayers fell flat in the last debate, people in the Obama campaign were actually disappointed that he didn’t follow through on it more and getting into it. Our focus groups found this out: When McCain brings these connections up, voters are turned off to him. They’d rather take this into consideration themselves, and when this happens, our numbers begin to tank.
4 – The Bradley Effect. Don’t believe these polls for a second. I just went over our numbers and found that we have next to no chance in the following states: Missouri, Indiana, North Carolina, Florida, New Hampshire and Nevada. Ohio leans heavily to McCain, but is too close to call it for him. Virginia, Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico and Iowa are the true “toss up states”. The only two of these the campaign feels “confident” in are Iowa and New Mexico. The reason for such polling discrepancy is the Bradley Effect, and this is a subject of much discussion in the campaign. In general, we tend to take a -10 point percentage in allowing for this, and are not comfortable until the polls give us a spread well over this mark. This is why we are still campaigning in Virginia and Pennsylvania! This is why Ohio is such a desperate hope for us! What truly bothers this campaign is the fact that some pollsters get up to an 80% “refuse to respond” result. You can’t possibly include these into the polls. The truth is, people are afraid to let people know who they are voting for. The vast majority of these respondents are McCain supporters. Obama is the “hip” choice, and we all know it.
As part of my research duties, I scour right wing blogs and websites to get somewhat of a “feel” as to what is being talked about on the other side. Much of it is nonsense, but there are some exceptions which give the campaign jitters. A spirited campaign has been made to infiltrate many pro-Hillary sites and discredit them. A more disorganized, but genuine effort has also been made to sow doubts among the unapologetically right wing sites such as redstate.com. Don’t you guys get it? This has been the Obama campaign’s sole strategy from the very beginning! The only way he wins is over a dispirited, disorganized, and demobilized opposition. This is how it has been for all of his campaigns. What surprises me is that everyone has fallen for it. You may point to the polls as proof of the inevitability of all of this. If so, you have fallen for the oldest trick in the book. How did we skew these polls, you might ask? It all starts with the media “buzz” which has been generated over the campaign. Many stories are generated on the powerful Obama ground game, and how many new voters were registered. None of this happens by coincidence. It is all part of the poll-skewing process. This makes pollsters change their mixes to reflect these new voters and tilt the mix more towards Democratic voters. What is not mentioned or reported on is not the “under-reported cell phone users or young voters” we hear so much about. What is underreported is you.
I changed my somewhat positive opinion of this campaign during the unfair and sexist campaign against Sarah Palin. I will never agree with her on the issues and will probably never vote for her, but I am embarrassed of what has happened. I can’t ignore our own hand in all of this. What I do know is that I will not be voting for Obama this time around. Treat that as you will.
I'll give you folks an under-reported story of the last 48 hours going into the election. I'm almost certain that the experts within each campaign, certainly David Plouffe and David Axelrod believe that Florida is a done deal. This is a big part of where the confidence resides. Colorado and Nevada look to be Obama's because of early voting and there appears to be reason for confidence in North Carolina and Georgia even. The reason for the certainty IMO is Florida. McCain can't win without it and here are the facts:
46.9% of the 2004 vote has already voted in Florida. This almost certainly represents about 40% of the ttal votes that will be cast in this election. this assumes that the total vote tally in florida will grow by almost 20%.
So from 40% of the voters, this is your Voter Id breakdown compared to 2004 in Florida:
2008
45.6% Dem
37.8% Rep
16.6% Indy
2004
40.7% Dem
43.5% Rep
15.8% Indy
Bush won early voting by Republicans VS Dems by 2.8% and won Florida by 5.0%.
2008
Obama won early voting by Democrats VS Reps by 8.4%. There's also reason to believe that Obama won the Independents if you look at polling of Independents in florida this cycle. Add to that, the evidence that 20-33% of the early voters are sporadic voters that don't normally vote this time and you have a lot baked in the cake. McCain would likely need to win same day voting in Florida by 7-10%. Super-unlikely. Again the camps are not going to disclose this confidence. That would be a dumb thing to do.
There are 18 expert pundits that I've seen give projections. Everyone from George Will, Matthew Dodd, and Ed Rollins to Nate Silver, Donna Brazille, and Juan Williams.
Of the 18 predictions, I know for certainty, at least 7 are Republicans.
17 of 18 predict OBama will win Florida. There's no path for McCain without Florida.
gallup:
52-41 (reg)
52-43 (lve - M+1)
51-43 (lvt - O-1, M+1)
Obama sitting pretty at 51-52%.
The narrative of the press is to manufacture news. Chuck Todd being uber-conservative and calling 286 makes for "surprise" on Tuesday night, showing a "stronger mandate"
for Obama.
wv - fased, adjective, to overact to the slightest twitch in polling data. antonym, unfased - what 538 readers should be
@Ginny in CO
"I am still working with a partially diabled mouse and don't have the time to go through all of it"
Sorry to hear that. But cheer up--with universal health care, your mouse will be covered, even with a pre-existing condition.
I'm ready for this to be over. I was reading over at Newsweek about the President having lunch with some Muslim women and saying something to the effect that he believes that, "we all pray to the same God."
This, of course, unleashed a torrent of abuse from the commenters along the lines of "My God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and He definitely isn't Allah." This would be news to Muslims, whose God is also the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....
["tarti" - You betcha, that Sarah sure is tarti!]
Do these idiots realize that coal is no longer a major industry in PA, save a small part of the state? Most of the state is sitting on top of a huge natural gas deposit (The Marcellus Shale). THAT'S what PA's energy future is.
11, 9, and 8 pt leads for Obama in Gallup. I'll take that. That means Landslide.
Gallup Daily: Obama Continues to Outpace McCain
Registered Voters
-----------------
Obama - 52
McCain - 41
Traditional LV's
-----------------
Obama - 51
McCain - 43
Expanded LV's
-----------------
Obama - 52
McCain - 43
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111664/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Outpace-McCain.aspx
::yawn::
anyway, so, what's going to happy to McGramps and Failin' after they go down to a record landslide loss on Tuesday?
Thoughts anyone?
Eric: you have to be extremely careful with Party ID in Florida. There are a whole lot of regular "presidential Republicans" among self-identified Democrats in North Florida. That was true in 2000 and 2004 -- and in many elecitons before that as well.
So just using party regigration to predict the presidential vote is more risky in FL than in many other states.
That said, I am cautiously optimistic that Obama will pull out a small victory in FL based in part on new voters including Hispanic (and among them, young Cubans as well).
I will say this - 40K+ (maybe a LOT more ++) showed up for Obama in Springfield, MO. yesterday, waiting 5-7hrs in line...
Springfield, Mo. is HUGELY Republican traditionally.
My daughter, her husband and 4 children (3mo-6yrs) attended, waiting 5 hrs in line. She said there were HUGE numbers of older folks AND VETS... but also that the median age (she thought) was 30-35 yrs old.
I think that bodes well for Obama/Biden.
You cannot find a more "republican" area of Missouri than the southwestern/southcentral part of the state, which is filled with RVs, old folks, farmers, ranchers and ozark hillbillies... much like Arkansas, really. And Springfield isn't like KC or St. Louis demographically -- it's a town for cattle/pig auctions and tractor dealerships... sure, there are some students, but nothing like you find in Columbia or other parts of the state.
Jeezus effin Christ, Accidental Hippie.
Are you trying to find stupid, random things to worry about? Apparently so. You may be a 'newbie' here, but you sure have the concern troll thing down pat.
OK, since you seem desperate to find anything that could be bad news, here you go - Obama is losing Pennsylvania! McCain is gaining strongly there! McCain is also surging in Virginia, Colorado, Florida, and New Hampshire! The national gaps are closing fast! The story on Obama's aunt is gaining traction, as is the story on Bill Ayers ghostwriting his memoir!
There, is that enough for you to worry about now for the next 48 hours? Good, now go away and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE like volunteer for Obama instead.
@Rich
That shocking "Hillary worker" news is sooo last week....
["rojea" - It does for your knees what Rogaine does for your hair.]
"I've been reading this site for a while now, and I've been wondering about the psychological curiosity that is the conservative "troll" post, and what the rational behind them might be."
I think it varies from troll to troll, but here goes:
1. There may be misguided campaigns or paid campaign workers who try to manipulate opinion on blogs.
2. There's the adolescent desire (many of these people are adolescent boys) to seek attention of any sort, including the usual immature adolescent sadism, of which Columbine is one extremity.
3. Related to #2, the hacker mentality. Trying to cause damage out of a broken idealism that has become a malevolent cynicism. It doesn't occur to them that, if they are in pain, they should create value in their own lives rather than make others suffer from their resentments.
4. The disingenuousness of the ignorant and stupid, who have been fed a grouping of ideological biases that make them righteously seek to deliver the faithless from their evil.
In all, a sorry miserable lot. Best ignored here, but not if you're a parent or friend of one of them.
Traditional LV's
-----------------
Obama - 51
McCain - 43
YES!!!
When even the ultra hesistant traditional model shows Obama up this big....he's gonna win.
Sherwick--
You are going to call them President-Elect McCain and Vice President-Elect Palin, that's what.
And something tells me in January 2013 you will be saying "Madame President". HAHA!
From PPP blogspot:
Sunday, November 2, 2008
Big Picture
Lots of people are leaving comments asking for predictions on this state or that state and I really don't want to get too specific while the polls are running, but here's the bottom line:
When we started running these polls Friday morning I was virtually certain Barack Obama would be elected President.
I still am.
To review we will have polls in North Carolina, Ohio, Florida, Indiana, Missouri, Nevada, Montana, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Virginia in the next 24 hours and we'll start rolling them out late tonight and then on through the night. We're probably going to call it quits around 4 AM this time so anything not done by then will come out later in the morning but we'll try to get the ones people seem most apprehensive about like Pennsylvania and Virginia done earlier in the night.
Posted by Tom Jensen at 12:59 PM 0 comments
eric - very interesting insight into FL. Does this make PA completely irrelevant?
Steve_OH,
LOL, sorry. I'm always the last one to find these things out. I just couldn't stop laughing and thought I'd share, but you guys are on top of things!
I'll go with number 4.
just read that long post about the supposed Obama campaign worker. One question: who the hell is Father Pfleger?
One of the few times Gallup didn't surprise me. After 3 days of good news for Obama, it was bound to drop off today. Obama's not gonna break 53%. I still don't see why Obama loses a point though.
As for IBD/TIPP...BULLSHIT. But that's okay, because that's one of the flunky polls, embraced only by FReeptards.
Keep spinning, RWC, keep spinning.
Because that's all you have. You've seen the early voting numbers. You know McCain can win PA and still doesn't have a chance. Your hero is in his death throes.
Tuesday will be very sweet indeed.
Still weeks and weeks since any one single poll out of literally hundreds have had McGramps ahead in the nation.
LOL@"Early voting", it reminds of "KERRY WINS THE EXIT POLLS!" in 2004, ROFL!
hatshepsutely said...
eric - very interesting insight into FL. Does this make PA completely irrelevant?
Short answer is Yes. Florida is the largest swing state. McCain probably wins without Florida about 1 out of 100,000 simulations.
RWC, your panic is showing too easily.
Tick, tock.
Only a few more hours for you to spin!
"LOL@"Early voting", it reminds of "KERRY WINS THE EXIT POLLS!" in 2004, ROFL!"
Yeah, why consider millions and millions actual ballots cast, when we have "internal polls" to tell us the real story?
re: "Exit Polling" and Early Voting
There has been a bit of polling showing an advantage for Obama in early voting. It wasn't "exit polling," though - just regular telephone polling that included questions about early voting.
In North Carolina and some other states affected by Voting Rights Act legislation, detailed "exit data" is compiled about early voting (well, all voting, really). So it's possible to go through NC's early voter stats and find out specifically how many, say, Libertarian Asian Females voted early through One-Stop (what some other states call "in-person absentee"). For the record, it was 12. ;-)
Because NC has such detailed stats, we know precisely how many Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Unaffiliated voters, etc. have already voted - and I haven't crunched the final numbers yet, but they've been running about 57/38 Dem/Rep just in terms of registration.
Given that Unaffiliated voters have been breaking toward Obama in most of the recent polling, and Dems/Reps have traded about the same amount of cross-over support, it looks like Obama should be leading by roughly 22 - 25% in the early voting. That's not based on "exit polling," but on "exit data."
So, we know that 41% of NC's registered voters have voted, and that Obama has (lowest estimate) a 20% lead among those who have.
Which means, even if we grant McCain a 3% win on election day proper, as per this M-D poll, and even if we grant him a totally unrealistic 100% turnout for the state's registered voters, Obama would still win NC 51/45.
Of course, that assumes that McCain's supporters and Obama's still show up on Tuesday. Obama voters need to go to the polls on election day! But the ground game here is amazing, and I am feeling even more optimistic than I was for the primary.
@Posted by: Anonymous_14
---------------
Oh, PULEEZE
yeah, Obama has all the polls sewn up, fooling everyone from Fox to Chucky T. Yeah, right.
Why is it that Republicans and/or PUMAs (actually repubs) think they can say a thing and make it true?
I realize that BUSH fooled the public twice... but I think the public isn't as complacent as they were a few years back, hence the 2006 election results and the whopping landslide that IS gonna happen and IS being predicted by most people not desperately working for John McCain.
That said, I am doing a couple of hours today phone banking from home, calling Missouri and Pennsylvania voters.
Obama Rally in OH
cnn.com live
Nate, For whatever reason, I am on McCain's mailing list. Their last email read a little bit like an Onion piece and I thought your reader would enjoy some highlights from their spin on the race.
1. The sender on the email is "Rick Davis, McCain Campaign". Did they mean to admit that?
2. Their spin on Iowa:
"Iowa - Our numbers in Iowa have seen a tremendous surge in the past 10 days. We took Obama's lead from the double digits to a very close race. That is why you see Barack Obama visiting the state in the final days, trying to stem his losses. It is too little, too late. Like many other Midwestern states, Iowa is moving swiftly into McCain's column." Um, Mr Davis must be referring the poll that only included the southern part of Iowa excluding DesMoines?
2. Their spin on why Obama has expanding into AZ and ND: "Expanding the Field: Obama is running out of states if you follow out a traditional model. Today, he expanded his buy into North Dakota, Georgia and Arizona in an attempt to widen the playing field and find his 270 Electoral Votes. This is a very tall order and trying to expand into new states in the final hours shows he doesn't have the votes to win."
Great stuff, you have to admit. Ironic that a prominent GOP anti-Franken message is that comedy and politics don't mix.
Hey libs, it's OVER for your messiah!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
McCain is going to CRUSH him. It's over!! PA is SOLID McCain!!!
"{assuming} Dems/Reps have traded about the same amount of cross-over support, it looks like Obama should be leading by roughly 22 - 25% in the early voting. That's not based on "exit polling," but on "exit data."
Not a good assumption in North Carolina or other southern states. Many southern Dems vote GOP for president. However, even if you give Mc better cross-over numbers, he still is losing.
"Iowa - Our numbers in Iowa have seen a tremendous surge in the past 10 days. We took Obama's lead from the double digits to a very close race. That is why you see Barack Obama visiting the state in the final days, trying to stem his losses. It is too little, too late. Like many other Midwestern states, Iowa is moving swiftly into McCain's column."
Back in reality-land:
"CNN is also moving Iowa, and its 7 electoral votes, from "leaning Obama" to "safe Obama." The latest poll of polls in Iowa, compiled Sunday morning, suggests Obama now has a lead of 14 percentage points in the state, 53 to 39 percent."
So you'll have to excuse us for taking the rest of Rick Davis's claims with just a couple grains of salt. He and Karl Rove can argue over who has the one true math.
@ guse
Spinning is exactly right about "expanding the field." It could never be about Obama have extra money to campaign with. It cannot be a part of Howard Dean's DNC strategy. I need to look it up on-line, maybe it was called The 50-State Strategy" ;)
IBD/TIPP, THE MOST ACCURATE POLLSTER, IS SHOWING A 2 POINT RACE!!! IN THE MOE!!! UNDECIDEDS WILL BREAK 9 TO 1 FOR MCCAIN!!!
MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!! CRUSH THE STUPID LIBS!!!!
Wow. Ken Duberstein just said he would vote for Obama on CNN's Zakaria GPS. That won't make any headlines given that most voters under 35 have never heard of him and half of Baby Boomers have forgotten about him (if they ever knew his name)... but still, pretty incredible that a former Reagan official would come out publicly for a Democratic.
A theory of sorts:
The more caps and exclamation marks the Republican trolls use, the more likely it is they're far behind.
Remind anyone of Baghdad Bob?
With these early voting numbers, I'm not sure I understand how McCain isn't behind there:
http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html
North Carolina
2,661,110 total votes
Black % - 26.1% (down from 28.0% last week, but WELL above the 18% there was in 2004)
18-29 - 15.0% (up from like 10% or so last week)
74.9% of 2004 total turnout is early
Put simply, Obama could have a lead of several hundred thousand votes. Voting in NC continues today and tomorrow.
Pollsters like PPP and Rasmussen are showing slight Obama leads while pegging the black % at 20%. I don't think there is any way black % goes to 20%, maybe to 23%.
Mason-Dixon house effects that still point toward an Obama victory is GREAT NEWS!!!!! For John McCain!!!!!!!!!
In Louisiana, we now see RNC ads against Obama. Is Louisiana in Play?
In the Ohio Democrat Primary, the final RCP average was Clinton ahead by 6.1
She won by 9.2. Three points better than the polls.
McCain will do the same in PA. Rasmussen has it within 4.
What now, libs?
*******
You do realize you're comparing apples to oranges. Just because Hillary outpolled a fellow Democrat in a heavily Democratic State by more than the polls suggest, doesn't necessarily mean a Republican is going to garnish enough Democrats in that State to cross over to out poll Obama in PA? It's more likely a fellowDemocrat will vote for another Democratic canidate in a primary, than to vote for a Republican over a Demcorat.
thisniss,
Good write-up on North Carolina. you missed one improtant point though. North carolina is a rare state that has about 20-25% of their Democrats vote Republican in every Presidential election. This stems primarily from Dixiecrats that voted for George wallace in 1968 for example. It's a rare state where that's the case, but it's true. Also, Bush won it by 12%. so, it's a hard state to predict, even with data. Nate predicts Obama will win North carolina by 0.6%.
The breakdown is:
2008 early voting North Carolina
50.8% Dem
30.6% Rep
18.5% Indy
vs
2004 NC early voting
48.6% Dem
37.4% Rep
14.1% Indy
Remember Bush ends up winning by 12%.
My prediction is OBama wins by 2% there, but I don't think he's up 20% or more in early voting.
Republican mayor of San Diego supports gay marriage - Turns back on campaign promises to oppose gay marriage in an emotional press conference.
VERY EMOTIONAL VIDEO HERE:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/2/84051/4140/170/649703
The truth has set him free.
Oh, and I'm surprised nobody pointed out the obvious fallacy here:
"In the Ohio Democrat Primary, the final RCP average was Clinton ahead by 6.1
She won by 9.2. Three points better than the polls.
McCain will do the same in PA. Rasmussen has it within 4."
He's using the RCP average for the primary and a cherry-picked poll for the general. The RCP average for PA right now is 7.0. So sure, finishing 3 points worse than that seems fine with me!
I bet TIPP is playing games and tomorrow Obama will have a giant leap.
They have almost 9% undecided, no way. If they keep this race so close they will look pretty silly on Tuesday,either every other pollster is wrong or they are.
I believe they are using 2004 data and won`t be able to say best pollster after this year.
NOLA58 said...
In Louisiana, we now see RNC ads against Obama. Is Louisiana in Play?
Yes. It's ahrd to predict. Certianly won't be a tipping point state. McCain will probably hold on there. It's another one of a small group of states where Dems outnumber Pubs, but many of the Dems vote Pub. Early voting reflects 36.3% AA, but it's not a big early vote state. Also, Landrieu is the one Dem Senator the Pubs are trying to pluck off. McCain probably has a 95%+ chance of winning there, but it could end up close. I think if AA turnout is astronomical, Obama has a better chance to surprise in Mississippi than Louisiana.
Oh my god. Yesterday in a campaign memo, Rick Davis said: "Obama is running out of states if you follow a traditional model. Today, he expanded his buy into ND, GA, and AZ in an attempt to widen the playing field and find his 270 EV's. This is a very tall order and trying to expand into new states in the final hours shows he doesn't have the votes to win."
(Emphasis mine.) OMFG.
In Louisiana, we now see RNC ads against Obama. Is Louisiana in Play?
No, probably not. Had the Katrina Diaspora of African-Americans not occurred, then it might have been possible. But it would be a pretty major upset if Obama beat McCain.
That said, it's probably not going to be a double-digit slam-dunk win for McCain, as it looked like it would be. McCain's probably looking at around a 5% margain.
My best guess is that the RNC's idea is to somehow hurt Landrieu by turning off moderates from voting at all on Tuesday.
Troll psyche: I have an online acquaintance who would easily do the kind of trolling you'd see here (and has on other sites). He's a smart, easily bored, mentally hyperactive guy with a twisted sense of humor, who just enjoys making people react.
He's also voting Obama.
Still, he's totally the type of person who would come here and rant in all caps about the new Kingdom of Palinia or whatever, out of sheer boredom. For all I know, he's Pete Kent.
This doesn't mean my friend's behavior isn't jerkish, my only point is that I think trolls are more in the 'attention seeking + attention deficit' camp than actual ideologues who truly care about this stuff as much as many of us.
Maybe some of the reason for the RNC buying time in LA is to help the Senate election, maybe its a sign the RNC are worried somewhere else and want to try and pick off Mary Landrieu as a buffer against the 60 seat thing?
Or maybe they are looking at early voting stats and know they ahve to get the vote out in places like LA.
"In the Ohio Democrat Primary, the final RCP average was Clinton ahead by 6.1
She won by 9.2. Three points better than the polls.
McCain will do the same in PA. Rasmussen has it within 4."
This is some stupid evidence here. Hillary supporters are not McCain supporters - they didn't vote for McCain in the Penn primary, they voted Hillary. Thats just as dumb as saying that Huckabee voter percentages in the south are somehow evidence that Obama will win some states.
@ subterranean
Or it could be that he wants to run up the score to make any electoral shenanigans moot.
Howard Dean = Father of the modern democratic 50-State Strategy
We broke all prior records for early voting in Louisiana -- and it isn't easy here to vote early.The sense here is that there is a lot of quiet support for Obama that might show through on election day. I hope we are one of the Tuesday surprises for the country. The republican challenger to Landrieu hasn't got a shot.
The surest fact at this point is that underneath the surface the reptiles are spreading nasty lies about Obama in a last ditch effort to race-bait. The scary adverts on this site are the clean tip of a very disreputable iceberg. John McCain is a dishonorable man, and Sarah Palin is the sort of vain ego-maniacal stupid person who gets pranked by very very very obvious imposters.
Isn't TIPP the one who undersamples young voters dramatically?
TIPP
Is the MOST ACCURATE pollster!!!!!
HAHA, STUPID LIBS.
YOU CAN CLING TO GALLIB, CBS, LIBMUSSEN, ZOGLIB, AND LIB NEWS ALL YOU WANT...BUT TIPP, THE MOST ACCURATE POLLSTER, SAYS MCCAIN WILL WIN!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!
@subterranean
What do you expect? Its just desperate and pathetic spin from a desperate, pathetic, and dishonest campaign.
@petey
Dole, McCain, Smith, Coleman, and the other Republican Fossils are going to get kicked out. They failed America.
These poor delusional Republicans. First this Fantasy thrown out by Rick Davis that they are capturing the Wallmart moms is just TFF. He along with the GOP posters who attempt to sell us this nonsense must think we really are stupid..Anyway great article mocking Davis..
http://www.newsweek.com/id/166680
Any Reppublican on this site who is trying to take the position that Palin is helping this ticket with Clinton supporters in Pennsylvania needs to take a look at the RCP average before Palin versus after Palin. On average Obama's lead has doubled since the Palin pick..
That being said let me take this opportunity to thank John McCain andthe Republicans for picking such a brain dead inadequate candidate..Thank you...
I've said before, but I think LA turning blue would be a neat underlining of the Bush years. Its one state Iw ould love to see a shock in.
My own guess is that in the end any election surprises that happen are more likely to be Demoratic candidates doing well in regions we weren't expecting.
Or maybe they are looking at early voting stats and know they ahve to get the vote out in places like LA.
Two days before the election, you don't run attack ads to fire up your base; rather, you run the ads in the hopes of discouraging swing-voters who are planning to vote for the other guy from voting at all.
Liddy Dole won't lose. Neither will Coleman.
KAY HAGAN IS GODLESS!! VOTE DOLE 08!!
petekent is officially off his rocker. He's down to screaming his fantasies in all caps. I with some people would just die in a fire. petekent is one of them. Die pete, seriously nobody likes you on here - you clearly have no friends and no life since you're on this blog all day long. Just kill yourself.
Texas would turn blue before LA.
What are these right wing nutjobs going to do when they get owned? Do they believe this stuff?
Are you angry, lib? Angry that your messiah is going to lose, you childish lib? haha ;)
MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!
Adam wrote:
Oh, and I'm surprised nobody pointed out the obvious fallacy here:
He's also basically saying that polling underestimates the winner. In those swing states where Obama leads, he's saying that Obama is stronger than the polling shows.
Or else he thinks HRC is a Republican.
Either way, there's no "there" there.
Nate
Doesn't the early voting in NC and GA already prove that MD is wrong? To assume 2004 when the early voting is nothing like 2004 seems- well bizzare.
DOLE is a washed up bag failed her state. She doesn't even live in her State. Dole is a massive failure. She failed the banking sector of her own State. LOL
Louisisana will tyurn blue before Texas. One poll has Obama's deficit as 3 in LA this week., and 15% of the blck voters declined to answer the poll.
Louisisana could go blue THIS year. 40% of voters are black in Louisiana if they turn out, or you don't suppress or lose their votes.
Hey Pete I want you to get use to this word=
MINORITY
That means your party will be in the minority in both houses and in the executive..
Also I want to extend a special thanks to you and W. In 2000 the dems had a minority in state Govenorships, both federal houses, and obvioulsy did not occupy the WH.
If all goe as expected on Tuesday the Dems will have the WH, both houses by large majorities, and majority of governorships..
Thanks Petekent we are really appreciateit.. BTW if you in anyway have worked for the Republicans over the last 8 years and are responsible for their political strategy, I am willing to pay you to go and work for them again because its obviously would be money well spent..
At least she's not GODLESS like Kay Hagan!!!
DOLE 08/MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!!
"What are these right wing nutjobs going to do when they get owned? Do they believe this stuff?"
Some believe it, some are just bored losers who try and rile people up. Both versions need therapy.
@Oct ("They failed America.")
Sorry to say, but Americans failed America in 2004. No way to get around that fact. Redemption time is 2 days from now.
@petey
Give me your home address so I can send you a box of tissues for Tuesday night.
If all goe as expected on Tuesday
MCCAIN will win in a LANDSLIDE!!!
Look at TIPP. Stupid lib.
Obama will regret not putting Hillary on his ticket. That marked the beginning of the end of Hussein's campaign, and started the MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!
My prediction, electoral votes: 456 to 82.
McCain could win only 10 states: Alaska, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Alabama and Mississippi. Considering the McCain campaign, these 10 states is a huge number.
I think this time time around all polls are fundamentally wrong, because they are calibrated against past elections. There is a huge difference in that loads of new voters entered the system. That and the Obama excitement and gop disarray. Then the fundamental premise are wrong in this way, that we have not 4 white guys running. Than also taking in account 8 years of neo con ultra right wing agenda, the gop can thank rove for the swing back times 2 towards reason.
Alabama and Mississippi could be a squeaker as well.
Considering all this, it should be surprising McCain wins 1 state... What does it say about these 10 or so states? Avoid at all cost?
The caveat here is that people are not complacent and show up to vote.
@boulder-liberal
Agreed. I am going to call a bunch of folks this evening. We all need to push hard this year to close the deal.
boulder-liberal -
All the bragging about "internal polling" was one thing. But this?!
I mean, there are only two possibilities. Either he's trying to find a convincing lie or he's actually delusional. In the first case, wow, how stupid does he think we ARE? In the second case, OMFG.
The only reasonable conclusion, I guess, is that McCain's staff is just phoning it in. Simply don't care anymore.
Hey I want Pete Kent to stay and work the GOP..He is our secret weapon..He is the gift that's keep giving..As i said the Republicans are about to be sent off to the wilderness and it's really smart guys like pete we have to thank..Like I said Pete I will bankroll you to go and work for the GOP. HAHAHAHAHAHA..
My prediction, electoral votes: 456 to 82.
That will be about how many EV'S MCCAIN WINS!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
MCCAIN LANDSLIDE!!!
456? I drink the kool aid and think that is well, 100 EV too high. I hope you are right...
"At least she's not GODLESS like Kay Hagan!!!"
I'm agnostic. I think I prefer a godless Kay Hagan to a psycho christian lady who bases her votes on some imminent mythical rapture
petekent wrote:
At least she's not GODLESS like Kay Hagan!!!
You surely are referring to Kay Hagan, the Sunday School teacher, right?
North Carolina won't agree with you, shadowguide! They're REAL Americans!
Early voting update:
FL
4,107,894 voted which is 53.8% of total votes in 2004
This is the 72 hour Rove push. Lets do it, I will be using my move-on list!
@petey
You sound angry.
Sorry Bush and Palin and McCain failed you the last 8 years.
America will right that wrong this year. Don't worry.
An Obama ad was running here midday through yesterday. It may have had some impact. A lot of frustration here with the war and resentment over the Katrina non-response. If our dems and moderates get out to vote, Louisiana easily could go blue on Tuesday.
I love it. Obama's desperate because he's searching around for votes in Arizona, Georgia, and North Dakota.
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