11.17.2008

For Obama, Will Familiarity Erode Contempt?

I've been playing around with the same exit poll data that Pollster.com's Charles Franklin has been looking at, on the percentage of the white vote received in different states by John Kerry and Barack Obama, respectively. Franklin has identified a correlation between the percentage of voters in a given state who are black and the share of the white vote that Obama received: essentially, the blacker the state was, the fewer whites voted for Obama. This correlation existed for John Kerry too, although it's a bit stronger for Obama:



My focus is on the South in particular, because it's not clear if there are especially meaningful patterns in this data outside of that region; Obama had no trouble winning over white voters in relatively black non-southern states like Michigan, New York, or Maryland. There are fifteen states that I define as Southern. Obama drew a larger percentage of the white vote than John Kerry in five of them, a smaller share (sometimes substantially smaller) in four of them, and got exactly the same percentage in the other six.

The driving factor in determining how Obama performed vis-à-vis John Kerry, however, appears as though it might not be race, but rather how much Obama camaigned in a given state. According to the New York Times candidate tracker, Obama campaigned extensively -- by which I mean, he actually went out and spent a lot of time on the ground -- in 6 of the 15 Southern states. These include Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, and Missouri (where Obama campaigned extensively in the general election cycle), as well as South Carolina and Texas (where Obama campaigned extensively in the primaries). The other nine Southern states, Obama did not have more than a couple of apperances in, and several he did not visit at all.

In the states where Obama campaigned extensively, he drew, on average, 3.3 percent more of the white vote than John Kerry did. In the states where he did not campaign significantly, on the other hand, his percentage of the white vote dropped by an average of 3.3 percent. The differences are highly statistically significant.



Now, the difficulty here is that we don't know which way to draw the causal arrow. Did Obama campaign more in states like North Carolina because he knew that white voters would be more receptive to him there -- or, were white voters more receptive to Obama because he campaigned more in North Carolina?

I think the most telling example might be South Carolina, which Obama did not campaign in because of any particular demographic strengths, but merely because it happened to enjoy an early position on the primary calendar. In that state, Obama did 4 points better than John Kerry among white voters, even though he didn't really visit the state after January. (Interestingly, it did not seem to matter whether Obama visited a state during the primary cycle or the general election; merely spending time on the ground there was what counted.)

The question, really, is to what extent Barack Obama's underperformance among certain types of white voters was a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're not asking for somebody's vote, you're usually not going to get it. This may be particularly true if you're a black person and the voter is a rural Southern white person.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the voter is hellbent against you. I tend to think that racism runs along a spectrum. Many, or perhaps even most white voters are a little bit racist, but for relatively few is race a complete deal-breaker. Many of them will vote for you if you're actively soliciting their votes, and they've had time to grow comfortable with you. If Obama had been targeting Georgia's or West Virgina's electoral votes as actively as he sought Florida's or North Carolina's, might he have won them? I don't know, but I think he'd have had a fighting chance.

There are some analogies here to homophobia, in that people become much more tolerant of gay people once a friend, workmate or family member has come out to them. The idea that you can say, Greg is gay, but guess what -- I know Greg, and he's a pretty good dude is very powerful. Prejudice is global, but tolerance is local.

This also has some interesting implications for 2012, in that by virtue of having become President, Obama will have spent four years in the living room of every American. That doesn't mean that Obama is going to win, say, Alabama. But it might mean that if he has a successful presidency, he can become -- well -- everybody's imaginary hip black friend, at least up to a point. I hope I'm not being too optimistic by suggesting that our country will be a bit less racist four years from now than it is today. If so, then states like Georgia and West Virginia should be given careful attention once Obama begins to plot out his 2012 strategy.

113 comments

twopack said...

So true.

twopack said...

Haha, just proves nice guys can comment first.

Juris said...

TYPO: "went out and spend a lot of time. . . ."

SPENT, not spend

VERY interesting article.

Andy JS said...

It's depressing that the man about to become US President only received around 10% of the white vote in states like Mississippi and Alabama.

twopack said...

if we're talking typo, he confused 'where' and 'were' somewhere.

STepper said...

I don't see an issue. More whites in heavily AA states are Rethuglicans. So what?

There is actually a better correlation between cotton picking states and the Rethuglican vote. (The study posted on the last thread didn't include the California San Joaquin Valley -- and California is a big cotton producer -- but if California were included it would be the same. Cotton is a rural crop. So what?)

Glenn said...

It doesn't surprise me. Most blacks vote Democrat and if you are a southern White that holds blacks in contempt then surely you wouldn't vote the same as your black neighbor. In fact, knowing that a popular black candidate will probably get huge turnout from black voters leads these same people to vote against him in higher numbers. They would love to turn back the clock and just disenfranchise the black voters but that might get a visit from the Justice Department. The only recourse is to get to the polls in high numbers and vote against whoever those uppity blacks will vote for. It's simple logic based a mindset of simple people.

kemlab101 said...

I love that someone is speaking the truth about a "racism continuum." Everyone is racist. It's a question of degree. Unfortunately most people still believe in quantum racism.

Juris said...

TYPO 2: "or, where white voters more receptive to Obama because he campaigned more in North Carolina?

Should be "or, WERE white voters...", not "where white voters...."

twopack said...

juris: he meant 'werewolf white votes'.

Sean Quinn said...

For the record, this Missouri native doesn't think Missouri is a "southern state." Throughout my lifetime, Missouri has been always classified as a Midwestern state, and it's not even controversial.

Official dissent registered.

Drew said...

"imaginary hip black friend" cracks me up every time. Even in class. Thanks for that Nate -- now I look like an ass.

Jonathan said...

I imagine Obama performed better than Kerry amongst virtually all demographics in areas where Obama campaigned heavily. Could you provide the same data for how Obama did over Kerry in those states amongst, say, the elderly, so we can draw some sort of comparison with the data you provided.

twopack said...

Oh gratus. Now Sean Quinn has a midwestern sockpuppet.

Juris said...

@Sean: Please tell us you're going to write an "On the Road with 538" book. We'd love to see this put into a book, including many pics.

BTW I agree on Missouri -- as a "border" state or central midwest.

However, that may depend in part on where in MO you're talking about. And I sometimes use certain "tells" about regional culture. Hush puppies and catfish popular? Grits a common breakfast accompaniment?

Juris said...

@Sean: another tell. Do they say "coke" or "soda" or "pop" in MO? I mean to refer to almost any soft drink. If "coke," it's consistent with southern lingo.

twopack said...

'imaginary hip black friend': one out of four ain't bad.

Glenn said...

Missouri is a southern state. Mos def. Sorry dude. You may as well live in Mississippi.

wv: contyryg / Missourian ashamed of his rebel past.

Juris said...

@Sean: one more way to define the eligible states. Wikipedia definition of "border states" -- includes MO (but also Delaware) as one of the 5 slave states that joined the union during the Civil War.

Maybe Nate should usse "slave state" (and broaden his definition of cases).

WP: "In the context of the American Civil War, the term border states refers to the five slave states of Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, and West Virginia which bordered a free state and were aligned with the Union. All but Delaware share borders with states that joined the Confederacy."

Danny Tarlow said...

as long as we're on the typo subject:
"but rather how much Obama _camaigned_ in a given state."

Glenn said...

oh right......Missouri was in the Union. Oh well. Southern nonetheless.

Matt W said...

Nate,
I think you should account for Kerry getting a smaller % in TX because it is Bush's home state

Wesley said...

Draw a line at the Missouri/Iowa border and anything south of that is The South. Central/Southern Illinois, Indiana, Ohio DEFINITELY included.

John said...

Many, or perhaps even most white voters are a little bit racist

Nate, appreciate the point you are trying to make here. However, I'd urge you to rephrase along the lines, "white voters have some racial bias when evaluating politicians."

When talking about racism (the institution), it is usually better to label something, not someone, as racist/racial. You are making a pretty personal accusation to call a person "racist."

And frankly, it is a lot easier to change an attitude or behavior that is driven by a racial prejudice or stereotype, than it is to transform one's being from being "racist" to being "not racist." And that's ultimately the point of your post . ..

Another Mike said...

Nate, per 2004 CNN exit polls you have two errors in your data. Per CNN, white voters in Alabama gave Kerry 19% (not 18% as listed) and white voters in Mississippi gave Kerry 14% (not 18% as listed).

sfergus483 said...

If you divide the country into regions the most common way (Northeast, South, Midwest, West), many states, unless put in one section only, overlap more than one.

Missouri is both Midwestern and Southern (usually considered Midwestern).

Ohio is Midwestern, Southern and Northeastern. (Usually Midwestern).

Texas is Southern, Midwestern and Western. (Usually Southern, but mainly because it was part of the confederacy; it is more Western than anything).

Probably a third of the states could be considered to be in more than one of the four regions.

Tokar said...

"...the blacker the state was, the fewer whites voted for Obama."

Probably not the BEST choice of words there, Nate.

Matt said...

Like sfergus483 said, MO is both Southern and Midwestern. South of I-70 or I-44 into the Ozarks, it's basically like Arkansas. North of that, it's more like Iowa or Illinois. Not really surprising. Of course it's a continuum, not a strict dividing line.

Most Missourians I know identify as Midwesterners. And in Missouri, it's soda.

foleydog said...

I've always considered Missouri a 'southern' state because it was a 'slave' state. (Missouri compromise, anyone?). It's a political rather than geographical distinction.

KIC said...

This seems to make perfect sense to me. In all situations, familiarity generally erodes contempt IF there is some kind of generalized stereotype involved. This is also entirely the reason Obama was so often shown in a very "presidential" setting...to get people to see that as "normal". IMO, despite the oppositions attempt, for instance at the DNC, to ridicule it, I think it was very much a perfect vehicle branding Obama in people's heads as presidential and why all the "glam" propaganda really didn't hold water.

This is a totally fascinating article.

Antmatic said...

From my brief stay in Missouri, St. Louis and St. Louis County are basically Illinois like while the central and southern portions of the state are basically Arkansas. I'm not sure about Kansas City.

Given the numbers out of Georgia, I'm surprised Obama didn't visit the state and do more advertising in the state. Maybe he had polling that indicated it would be for naught.

the old perfesser said...

We are dealing here with issues that deserve a multi- analysis. The sole differences in places like NC (versus for example TN or AR) was not only whether Obama visited them at some point in the campaign cycle, but also what kind of operation was in place. This explanation is too simplistic.

The theory might be tested better if it were studied at a more local level. There are "black" and "white" parts of several states (both Confederate and Union), and perhaps the vote analysis at the Congressional district level could show whether Obama's personal appearances in those districts mattered.

How, for example, do we understand Michigan? What can we learn from comparing the Memphis area to Chattanooga? What was the "white" response in southern Louisiana vs. northern?

"All other things being equal," perhaps the theory is good - but perhaps not. This idea needs a control to test the experiment.

garbuhj said...

Correlation does not prove causation. There are tons of other completely unrelated factors that could be causing these two variables to trend together.

judas_priest said...

Teh reason we have so much confusion about where a state is classified is that states are not homogeneous entities. In Illinois, for example, the Chicago area fits into a category I call "urbanized Great Lakes." But counties west of the SMSA are more typical of a Midwest centered around small cities and rural areas. This also applies as you go south from Chicago but the, the southern end of the state has much in common with "border" region."

When I was grad school I fooled around trying to devise a model to draw regional boundaries by counties using demographic variables, but I never got serious about it (and there was an enormous amount of data involved.)

wv=awmgybut: a rear end that looks like an awm (Now all I need to do is figure out what an awm is).

Jesse said...

for some of us, familiarity is starting to breed contempt. i did not "vote for change" in order to bring a bunch of ex-clintonites into power. i have been at protests of lawrence summers regarding his exploitative neo-liberal economic policies, which include support for deregulation of the sort that got us into this financial mess to begin with. and don't get me started on john brennan (sp?), bob gates, and rahm emanuel's hawkish foreign policy stances. now the same people who rushed us into bailing out wall street - with no oversight - are going to tell us that we 'can't afford' to carry out obama's campaign promises such as universal health care and tax cuts for working and middle class people.

i usually vote green party and "crossed back over" to the democrats for obama. i'm already starting to regret it and realize that, ultimately, he may be just another democrat, no better or worse than all the other 'lesser of two evils' i have refused to vote for in the past.

i know that i'm further left than the 'typical american' in this regard, and thus not who nate is referring to in this post, but nonetheless i thought i'd offer a different perspective.

RedHawksO4 said...

Although I agree with a lot of your analysis Nate, a lot of this is over generalizing and overly optimistic. It's easy for a white dude from a northern city (like both of us) to assume people will be comfortable with someone because he's on their tv. Come on, that's a bit naive. Having my own site, I understand the difficulty finding material now that the election is over, but some of this is trying to make something out of nothing.

11/17 Roundup: Fireside IM's

Another Mike said...

Nate states that "The driving factor in determining how Obama performed vis-à-vis John Kerry, however, appears as though it might not be race, but rather how much Obama camaigned in a given state." I was playing around with the same data and believe there is a different dynamic at work. It appears to me that the driving factor in determining how Obama did vis-a-vis Kerry, is how much white population growth has occurred in a given southern state over the last 70 years or so. The theory is that interstate immigration from outside the south makes a particular state more receptive to a black candidate, either directly through more voters who have less racist attitudes or exposing existing voters to new ways of thinking.

I'm not sure if this will format correctly, but I've listed the 11 states of the Confederacy in decending order of Obama's share of the white vote - Kerry's share of the white vote. The first column is the state's name, second is Obama's share of the white vote, third is Kerry's share of the white vote, fourth is the change from Kerry to Obama, and fifth column is the anticipated number of congressional districts after the 2010 census/the number of congressional districts in 1932 (before WWII and any large scale interstate immigration). As you can see states that have experienced large population growth relative to the country as a whole were much more receptive to Obama.

State Obama Kerry O - K 2012 CDs/1932 CDs

North Carolina 35 27 +8 1.27
Virginia 39 32 +7 1.22
South Carolina 26 22 +4 1.17
Texas 26 25 +1 1.71
Florida 42 42 0 5.40
Georgia 23 23 0 1.40
Tennessee 34 34 0 1.00
Mississippi 11 14 -3 0.57
Arkansas 30 36 -6 0.57
Alabama 10 19 -9 0.78
Louisiana 14 24 -10 0.75

Juris said...

Hmmm, there was some guy on Rachel Maddow (Huffington is subbing) who seems to know all the answers already.

Why should we read this blog?

livemild said...

please let's not correct spelling, typos, grammar, etc. this is not a grammar or spelling class. am i the only one here who hated English grammar?

the only point of English grammar-IMHO-is to promote good communication.
i think nate silver gets his point across.

i have seen some total idiots with perfect grammar. i come here for politics.

elswhere said...

John @ 7:31--

That's a useful distinction, but I think Nate might have been making a Broadway-musical reference with that "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw

Tom said...

By comparison, it looks like Newt Gingrich really needs a gay friend or relative to avoid the spurious accusations he made to Bill O'Reilly about gay and secular fascists. Indeed, he could probably use a couple of agnostic buddies, too. Or else he's already running for president and already competing with Huckabee and Palin for that elusive shrinking non-majority demographic of white, rural, religious, non-college voters. Get a grip, Newt: you don't stand a chance.

Dave Brodbeck said...

In social psych (and evolutionary psych) we talk a lot about ingroup and outgroup bias and "badges".

Skin colour, a LONG time ago (I mean like in evolutionary time) would have been a reliable badge, you were unlikely to be related to someone with a different skin colour, so you would be less trusting of such a person.

Nowadays skin colour is a lousy badge, yet we still of course respond to it. Indeed, it takes evolution a long time to catch up to such drastic changes in human culture over the last few centuries.

One of the ways to use "badges" to your advantage is to show you are the same as some other person, despite the phenotypic differences. Pres elect Obama did a great job of this, showing the families in the infomercial reading to their kids, then mentioning that he always read to his kids. This was subtle, though it was cool as I was teaching this stuff that same week.

Anyway, familiarity allows one to find commonalities, and you are at the same time, usually unknowingly, using our evolutionary proclivities to help stamp out racism. Cool.

John Van said...

that fellow up there who said that Missouri was a southern state should tell that to Jesse James.

someperson718 said...

If Obama even does marginally well to aid the American people we are going for 400 EV's next election. YYEAHH!!

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

I thought this was already determined to be if a traditionally red state had a lot of transplants because of technological booms and such, Obama had a better chance.

The ex-slave states just haven't had a lot of transplants apart from VA and NC.

livemild said...

jesse-
i too am feeling unease about Obama. nothing like dragging out the clintons to make me queasy and throw in that Lieberman will get to stay on because of wimpy, old style politics out and out makes me want to puck.
Rahm is just the frosting on a putrid day for change

Rich Rifkin said...

"I hope I'm not being too optimistic by suggesting that our country will be a bit less racist four years from now than it is today."

It's entirely possible this works in reverse for racism. If Obama is deemed an abject failure and our country is in a deep depression in 2012, there may be non-black people who voted for him in 2008 but blame his skin color for his failings in office. As such, the level of racism will be higher.

I this this applies to George W. Bush, too. Before he became president, there was much less prejudice against having a village idiot run our country. But now, after 2 lousy wars and a horrible economy, people have grown wary of electing morons to the presidency. This awareness will have an impact in 2012 -- it will derail Sarah Palin before she sets down in Des Moines.

jbjr said...

In Southern states, African-Americans live in rural AND urban areas, as opposed to being confined almost entirely to the cities. I'm pretty sure that if you ranked the states by what percentage of their African-American population was rural, you would have the Deep South states right up at the top (MS, AL, LA, AR). I grew up in Mississippi, I live in Virginia, I have family in Arkansas and Tennessee, and I've spent a non-trivial amount of time in every one of these states except for Oklahoma (which probably should not be on the list). All the campaigning in the world wouldn't have helped Obama in those states.
You would probably not believe the torrent of hatred unleashed by Obama's victory. My sister-in-law called me the day after the election asking if she could come stay with us because of how bad it was. If I can find the data (rural % of black population) I'll do the numbers and post it.

obsessed said...
This post has been removed by the author.
obsessed said...

I think it goes even deeper. After successfully demonizing Cleland, Kerry, etc. the Republicans - at all levels - truly jumped the shark in their wide ranging attempts to demonize Obama: Muslim, terrorist, angry black racist, Marxist, dangerously clueless and incompetent, middle class tax raising, etc. They convinced millions and those milions are still out there ranting in all caps, waiting to be proven right as Obama's Al Quaida membership is finally exposed.

But because Obama won anyway, these smears will become more and more laughable and by 2010 every last Appalachian will be painfully aware of just how thoroughly he or or she has been had and be significantly more suspicious the next time around. As their hero famously said "fool me once, shame on you ... but err ... uhhh ..."

The Republicans had a damned good game going exploiting "the matter with Kansas" but from Bush to the ham-handed '08 campaign, they've drawn back the curtain so that even the most thick-skulled of their electoral marks can't help but get wise to the con.

obsessed said...

Before he became president, there was much less prejudice against having a village idiot run our country. But now, after 2 lousy wars and a horrible economy, people have grown wary of electing morons to the presidency.

Yup - I think we're going to see a rise in that most insidious form of prejudice: moronism.

I just sent a donation to the NAAM (National Association for the Advancement of Morons). Sarah P is their new poster child.

CoreyB8421 said...

Of course fewer voters will be racist in 4 years -- more people over the age of 65 will be dead and 14-17 year olds will be able to vote.

Younger people are less racist.

RufusRules said...

Nate, nice job on the Maddow show. I think Arianna has a little crush on you.

Kennyb said...

Very interesting, Another Mike.

And Missouri is not a universally "soda" state. It is a mixture, which is why it is such a beverage bellweather:

http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html

Josh said...

2012 won't be about racism or anything like that. It will be about what Obama's record over the next four years - that's it.

If Obama gets positive things done and stays out of trouble, everything will take care of itself. If he gets things in this country heading back in the right direction and things are better than they were when he took office, he'll get re-elected, and probably decisively so.

If he doesn't make positive changes and/or becomes entangles in scandal, we'll be looking at President-elect Palin, Jindal or Romney four years from now.

Terri said...

This correlation does not surprise me in the least. I always knew it. I don't consider Missouri the south, btw. Definitely midwest.

harold said...

Antmatic -

"From my brief stay in Missouri, St. Louis and St. Louis County are basically Illinois like while the central and southern portions of the state are basically Arkansas. I'm not sure about Kansas City."

I lived for three years in St Louis County, and this is extremely accurate.

mapsguy1955 said...

As a solid supporter, I am not really happy with some of the talk going on on change/Clinton, but I am a pragmatist. As much as I would love to just stick it to those that have been in charge, I know that this is a one step at a time deal. Before we rush to conclusions about how Obama is going to run the country, let's let him do it for a while!

tko said...

Does the data breakdown exist to do the analysis at the county level? To see if proximity to black voters is having any impact on the white vote it the South, a county-level analysis would definitely show it (upland counties being quite Republican but overwhelmingly white). The aggregate data suggests a negative correlation between having black neighbors and voting Republican. If so, that would seem to be a reversal of the historical pattern. By looking only at the state level, your analysis will tend to show a 'familiarity breeds contempt' pattern in the South where in fact that might not actually be the case.

Rm said...

@sfergus483

"Ohio is Midwestern, Southern and Northeastern. (Usually Midwestern)."

Southern? Ohio borders Canada.

Another Mike said...

Skin colour, a LONG time ago (I mean like in evolutionary time) would have been a reliable badge, you were unlikely to be related to someone with a different skin colour, so you would be less trusting of such a person.

If there's anything I find more fascinating than politics, it's evolutionary biology. But, I just don't get this assertion. If you're talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago, how often would anyone ever encounter someone with markedly different skin color? Surely, there would be enough gene swapping between different tribes within walking distance that there would be no discernable difference in skin color. It's not like a caveman from France would ever meet up with a sub-Saharan nomad.

wv: smsch, Yiddish for Bubba

Dave Brodbeck said...

@another mike, Oh it would be exceedingly rare, but it would be a reliable badge. So like, you could postulate that any notable characteristic would be noticed, and skin colour is way noticeable. So the putative cognitive module that would do such recognition would notice skin colour right away.

@rm Ohio does not border on Canada.

Dave Brodbeck said...

@another mike oh yeah, plus consider the reading thing I mentioned. Back in the Era of Evolutionary Adaptation (the EEA) we weren't reading to our kids much either :-)

Juris said...

@Kennyb: Missouri a "beverage bellwether"!!? GOOD one. (I'm a bit surprised that no county in MO favors the term "coke." But just across the border. . . . Well that's what makes it a border state.)

sfergus483 said...

Ohio south of Columbus and east of Cincinnati feels more southern than midwestern or northeastern.

Ohio from the east side of Cleveland, down to Akron and toward the PA border is more northeastern than midwestern.

Shaker Heights gravitates toward New York (eastern Cleveland suburb); Lorain & Elyria (far western suburban) are midwestern.

ralph058 said...

The states you mentioned are more hard over Baptists and far right churches. They would be more apt to believe that Obama is the incarnation of the Antichrist.

Racism may have less impact than seems from the surface. Obama is more liberal than Kerry. Therefore, a greater enemy of the churches. I'm willing to bet if the tapes of the church's broadcast (and they all broadcast) were to be evaluated they would all contain roughly the same message that the NC priest communicated that anybody that votes for Obama commits a mortal sin (only I'm not too sure Baptists believe in mortal sins).


Being a ex-Damned Yankee. That's one who moves to the South and stays. My guess is that the racism factor is a function of roughly the cube of the persons age.

There is a threshold somewhere around 50 that it falls off to just the square of age.

I judge this on the frequency of the 'N' word in the conversation verses age of my co-workers...at least until my then employer got tough on it.

People my daughter's age (ca 40) and younger do not seem any where near as racist as the people my age (ca 66) and older.

Attn: Dave Brodbeck
Ohio owns 1/2 of Lake Erie, (roughly) Immediately north of that half is the half that belongs to Ontario. The last I knew Ontario was in Canada.

Dave Brodbeck said...

@ralph yeah but nobody lives in the water.... So technically you are correct. However, having lived in Ontario most of my life people here rarely travel to Ohio for the day, vs say NY or MI. I mean one could say that Newfoundland borders on France what with St. Pierre and Miquelon and all...

Another Mike said...

@ dave brobeck, if I understand you, you're saying we're adapted to notice physical differences between our tribe/kin and others, whatever they may be, not necessarily or specifically skin color. While this trait evolved in the context of what we would today call extremely subtle differences (perhaps the kind that allow one to identify members of the same family without even being able to articulate the similarity), it applies with particular force nowadays to more obvious physical differences like skin color. I could accept that.

Dave Brodbeck said...

@another mike, exactly. There are pretty good data that show that friends have more similar blood types than you would expect by chance. That is just one example. How in the hell do we do that? I have no idea. We somehow associate with those that are more similar to us than we would expect by chance, and things that are not even noticeable. For more obvious characteristics the data hold up too (of course I mention the blood type thing because it is so damned cool...)

David said...

To comment on Nate's minor statistical point, that white support for Obama in the south is better explained by campaigning than racism:

I've looked at the effect on my site before during the 2004 and 2000 elections, and it's fairly robust on a county level. I don't see how the campaigning hypothesis could explain that.

See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/17/214522/30?new=true

But otherwise, his statements about racism and the future of the democratic statement were head on.

David said...

Dave Brodbeck,

It's a pretty cool story, but I think it's pretty easily explained by the fact that blood type is pretty well correlated with ethnicity.

And racial sorting isn't exactly new.

Still, it'd be fun to see the probability distributions...

Dave Brodbeck said...

@david those explanations are not mutually exclusive.

The paper I am referring to is by Anne Storey (I think) back in the late 90s. She is at Memorial University of Newfoundland, I was there too then.

There are a lot of other variables about friends too, like friends prefer the smell of the sweat of their friends vs non friends.

The whole thing likely relates to the MHC gene complex. Boy I am getting off topic...

kameron s said...

totally off topic, but

arianna huffington telling nate silver on the rachel maddow you, "you've made me a poll addict".

priceless!

Kennyb said...

Also off topic, but it looks like we were mistaken in our suspicions about Alaska:

Alaska voter turnout may set a record: Alaska voter turnout for this year's election appears now on track to be the highest ever.

http://www.adn.com/election/story/591659.html

the bachelor said...

One thing I'd like to see explored is how much flight from New Orleans due to Katrina might have affected the numbers for Democrats, ie Obama.

There was a theory out there that part of the reason the administration didn't do much in La. is because they felt that if enough people left New Orleans, the better chance they had at making it a solid red state.

So my question is: did that play out, or is this just par for the course for Louisiana?

John said...

Familiarity breeds acceptance ...

I supported Edwards first, then Clinton, and finally Obama. I am left of all three but I stick with the Democrats for pragmatic reasons.

Over time, I became more and more comfortable with Obama's candidacy. I never bought the "celebrity fantasy", but Obama's staying power and mental agility impressed me.

Those voters who are center right and voted for McCain, might have an experience similar to mine in 2012 and decide Obama is the best pragmatic choice after all.

JW

jwgresham said...

How does the following vinette fit into these theories- A friend in Raleigh NC was canvassing for Obama in a blue collar neighborhood ten days before the election. He came up to a house with three pickups in the yard, two of which had a confederate flag decal proudly displayed. A Harley under repair was on the porch. With some trepidation he knocked on the door which was answered by a burley gent with a beer in his hand. Two more large gents were in the living room watching a football game. When asked if he had decided who he was voting for in the presidential race, the gentleman replied, "Yeah we've been talking about it and we've about decided to vote for the black dude." These gents were not part of any inmigration and clearly had no problem in identifying with the old south, but some part of the Obama message, perhaps his visits or more likely his heavy ad campaign had reached them. I think the Obama ad buys in the states under discussion is a factor that needs to be correlated in determing Obama's white vote in the south..

Henry said...

Here is the analysis I see is a little different.

When African-American voters are less common than 15%, there is no significant correlation (p > 0.05).

However, above 15% the trend becomes linear, and very negative. Approximately 2% of white votes, per 1% African-American voters (p << 0.05)

Randy said...

Obama's familiarity factor will absolutely, positively, diminish the racist factor. Hard to say how much, though. If he doesn't screw up his first four years, I suspect he'll probably win by an even LARGER margin in 2012. Good for the whole country. :)

George In Florida said...

Nate:

Question:

Is the horizontal axis the percentage of black voters in 2008 for both Kerry and Obama. I don't have the raw data for black voting in 2004, but it appears that both set of Kerry and Obama data were plotted against the 2008 turnout. However, we do know that the black vote was higher in 2008. If that is the case, could you re-plot the Kerry data with 2004 exit poll data?

If that is the case, then I believe you would see more of a correlation the black voting percentage to white voting for the Dem. (with a slight upwards shift for Obama). If that is the case, that would lead to a different conclusion, namely, that the higher the black turnout, the higher the white vote percentage to Rep., more of a cancelling out effect, with no coelation to Kerry or Obama.

Just a thought.

WV: galsiti where I'd like to move to so I could get more dates.

B.D. said...

Dang, I never knew Greg was gay.

Austin said...

Mr. Silver: (or to whomever else such details fall):

The plots and curves are interesting, but aren't they ultimately much less interpretable without a fit statistic?

Insightful as it is in present form, I think many of us would find that chart far more helpful with something as simple as an R-squared for each curve. If you have the time and inclination to indulge us, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks again for your tremendous efforts throughout the process,

A. Albino

x0lani said...

There's clearly a correlation between the number of times that Obama campaigned in the state and the delta in the number of votes. But as Nate suggested, correlation is not causation.

My guess is that Obama didn't campaign in those states because he knew it was a waste of resources. Even by Nate's preelection estimates those states were never in reach, with their high rural "American" population.

Four years from now, even the more racist whites will have adjusted to the idea of a black president, however a lot depends on how the next four years. If the economic crisis results in rough times for the south, there could be a lot of white racists saying "I told you so."

Still, in terms of mitigating racism, it is valuable to have an prominent African-American figure who isn't a rapper or basketball player. Now America needs an African American Nobel prize winner (and not for peace or literature).

bm said...

The causal error is what really matters, though. I know you probably got better things to do but why don't you try two things to make your direction of the arrow more convincing.
a) Use your data on the ground game. True candidate visits might be the ultimate persuasion but it certainly helps if you get someone talking to you closer to the election. Related: Are we sure that those whites who ended up in the Obama column and had not voted for Kerry were *NOT* late-deciders. If they had previously been undecided I would have a harder time beliving in the candidate-visit argument.
b) You could increase your N. County level data should help do the trick. If you're right we would essentially not expect too much variation within states.
c) ok. that makes three - but. wouldn't one have to remove the general pro Dems trend of this election?

Thanks a million for still being here!

Wouter said...

Greg is a fag!

nanidrew said...

"from picken cotton to picken presidents" - Demonstrating a similar pattern at strangemaps website (if no one posted link above, here it is) http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/330-from-pickin-cotton-to-pickin-presidents/

Dave Solimini said...

VO Keys' legendary "Southern Politics in State and Nation" walks through a lot of your initial findings on the relationship between white vote and black population percentage. There has long been a correlation between those factors. Keys' book was published decades ago and remains a go-to reference, along with "The Rise of Southern Republicans" by Merle and Earl Black.

Berkeley Bear in Illinois said...

Curiously, no one is pointing out the fallacy of the theory of gay friend as moderating force. The problem with the idea is that the person is generally only accepted as an exception, rather than a rule, and oftentimes no change is made to the underlying views of the class as a whole. Case in point - Sarah Palin has a lesbian "friend," yet she still thinks its a "lifestyle choice" and that legal discrimination against gays is perfectly fine. I suspect if President Obama excels, he will be seen by many racists as proof that they aren't prejudiced, but that African Americans generally are just "lazy" "shiftless", etc. If he fails, look for all the kooks with theories of differentiated evolutionary intelligence (ie Nazis in hiding) to come out of the woodwork. Prejudice is irrational in the modern era - expecting it to self-moderate rapidly is probably wishful thinking.

Andrew said...

I wonder if the performance-relative-to-Kerry vis-a-vis white voters is even more strongly correlated with current views on Bush and country in right/wrong direction. Can you get state-level results on Bush approval ratings and right/wrong direction polls?

MsMike said...

Other commenters have used words like “Rethuglicans” and “mindset of simple people” to describe white people in the Southern states. One of the points of the article is to see racism, like all prejudices, as lying on a continuum.

One good step toward healing the hatred in this country is to speak respectfully of every other citizen.

Greg said...

"There are some analogies here to homophobia, in that people become much more tolerant of gay people once a friend, workmate or family member has come out to them. The idea that you can say, Greg is gay, but guess what -- I know Greg, and he's a pretty good dude is very powerful. Prejudice is global, but tolerance is local."

As an out 'n' proud Greg, I have to thank Nate for giving me my new screen name: Pretty Cool Dude!

Tony C. said...

Speaking as a sociology academic, racism is more evident when there is a large POOR black population. Poor people of all races are more likely to be involved in drugs and crime (out of desperation and lack of options). In non-blacks, a large poor black population sets up a false correlation between skin color and negative or fearful attributes that get publicity in the paper and on the news.

This would also explain a focus on the south; where there are large populations of poor blacks.

That might also explain the focus of Obama's efforts in these states, these are votes he can get.

We can see this effect mitigated in melting pot cities, where the poor are composed of several races and not one predominate race. In such areas (like New York City), crime and drugs are more associated with poverty (the real cause) than with any particular race.

Jesse said...

On closer reading of this post, I actually think it misses the point of what racism is. Nate says racism is a "spectrum" from whites who are very racist to just a little racist or not racist at all. That refers to our *attitudes* - prejudice - but racism is not about personal attitudes, it's about structures of society - which are fundamentally racist and are unlikely to transform significantly in four years no matter who is president. Even a completely "non-racist" white person still benefits from white privilege on a structural/social level.

On the attitude level, I would also suggest that just because a white person voted for Obama does not mean they are not prejudiced. As pointed out in an insightful discussion on NPR of race relations post-Obama, "many white people who voted for president-elect Obama might nonetheless object to him living in their neighborhood." Let's not forget all the voters who told Obama canvassers things like "we're voting for the [n-word]." Are they not racist? Or are they just so angry with what has happened for the last 8 years that they will vote for any Democrat regardless of their prejudices?

Simon said...

Mr O did come to Birmingham once in the primaries, packed the house at Boutwell Arena. In Nov Jefferson county went blue for the first time in a long time, while the rest of the state basically stayed the same as 2004.

GoldenAh said...

Isn't there also a correlation between levels of poverty, education, college towns, and high tech companies in the election results?

wv: embinis - a bikini I'm embarrassed by.

Mark Ludwick said...

Are you measuring how much time Obama spent campaigning in each state in absolute terms or relative to how much time Kerry had campaigned in the same state? I would interpret Obama's outperforming Kerry among whites in a given state differently if I knew that Kerry had campaigned in that state more than, the same amount as, or less than Obama. It is possible that Obama campaigned in VA, SC, and NC more than Kerry - and that Kerry would have come closer to matching Obama's performance among whites if he had campaigned there as much as Obama.

I am more struck by the results from states where I am sure neither candidate did much campaigning... and Obama's under-performance among whites in those states.

Thomas said...

I always get a kick out of people who attack southern people for bigotry. Irony is the greatest form of humor.

The South is heavily Republican amongst whites. White people in the South voted for the Republican, not against the black guy. The South is much more racially enlightened than the North. Most Southern whites would have no problem with a black president, he'd just have to be a conservative. It's the Northern whites that have the racist views.

This comes from a Northerner who has lived in the South.

George In Florida said...

Thomas:

As a person who has lived all over the states, I disagree with you.

Racism has a different flavor in the south, as opposed to the north. It is much stronger and is more in the open. It is also more accepted.

When I worked the polls in January, the person sitting next to me said "I bet they'll be alot of them coming out to vote for Obama." He didn't say it with malice, but he did express it as such. It seemeed to him just an ordinary thing to say. You probably would not hear this from a stranger in the north.

In the north, you are more likely to get the "we even have a black in our group" type comment. The Bradley effect was very common in the past in the north. People who would not want others to realize they wre voting against the black just because he was black. There was very little evidence of the Bradley effect in the south, since people could say they were voting against the black.

In California (and the southwest), racism is more directed against the latinos (and also against the asains), but not as much against blacks.

jep1978 said...

I notice this pollster graph never includes DC. I guess they can get away with skipping DC because it's not a state, but the real reason might be that it breaks the pattern. Obama won the white vote in DC, and DC also has a very high proportion of African American voters.

jdk said...

http://kromkowski.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

It seems to me that the whole analysis would make much more sense if the discussion moved beyond this artificial and homogenized notion of "white". The ancestry data and the religion data are what you need to look at. Moreover, the presence of African Americans is a confounding non-continuous variable.

Just take a look at the Kerry vote by county in Michigan vs. % of African American population.

Bozo said...

The other factor no one (besides Mark L) seems to be mentioning is how much KERRY campaigned in the states under review. In a state where Kerry didn't campaign, but Obama did, we should expect to see even bigger gains than in states where both campaigned (like Florida).

John said...

I would like to see an age break down of white southern voters.

My reasoning: I grew up in Florida (Belle Glade and West Palm Beach) between 1943 and 1954. African-Americans were sent to the back of the bus; had separate public facilities; were excluded from many retail stores and had separate schools and communities. I never knew an AA until I moved to Denver in 1955. When I visited relatives in Florida, I heard the n-word often and it grated on my nerves. As a young child no one near me questioned racism, it was like the air we breathed. I have to believe later generations grew up aware of the social poison inherent in racism.

JW

scot said...

Wow I hardly ever post and I havent been on 538 for a couple of days.
I'll take my spanking and promise never to miss it again!
I live in San Fran now but grew up in Memphis.
My first memories at 7 were the Garbage strike and the lines drawn. Then King being killed.
My mother crying, my grandfather happy, my grandmother worried.
Going over to my Great-grandparents that night.
My Mama and Papa.
Papa who showed me that 330 dollar pension check from the UAW and Ford EVERY month.
Mama who would not allow the n word around her.
God lives in this house Son---to my father.
Papa telling me that night that when men stand up sometimes they are beaten down, but Son you must stand up for what you believe.

Obama did that standing up.
Thanks Nate for your optimism and the numbers to back that up.

When I came out at 19 and my dad threw me out
and I lived in SF penniless and scared about AIDS.
His Dad, who ran with the Klan in Mississippi as a young man and im sure did many bad things, sent me 150 dollars a month and these prayers of forgiveness. Asking me to forgive my father.
I would have never have known how much he had changed if I hadn't stood up.

I celebrate the 48% of the Cali electorate who voted for gay marriage and the 11% of white people in Mississippi who voted for a black man for president of the USA.

willdenow said...

I wish I could say that familiarity will break down the color barrier, but I'm not so sure. I grew up in Kentucky, a nominal border state, but a particularly racist one. I expect that Obama did poorly in the states you mention because they lead the country in the proportion of under class, uneducated, evangelical whites. Minorities, women and glb-types always get the short end of the stick in these areas, at least in my areas. As education level rises, fundamentalism wanes and tolerance increases. Look and Jefferson and Fayette Counties in Kentucky, Davidson County in Tennessee, Fulton County, Georgia, etc. These are all urban areas with large universities in which a majority of white voters are well educated and middle to upper middle class. Obama did well in all of these areas. Obama's wins in Virginia and North Carolina were based on the relative increase in well educated white suburban voters over the last ten years. I have a feeling that is why they were targeted to begin with. I think Texas and Georgia will make good targets in 2012 because both states have strong university systems, have increasing numbers of upper middle class jobs available and both states have rapidly rising latino populations (which give an added boost). Unfortunately, states renowned for their backwardness (Arkansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Louisiana) will probably remain safe republican districts for many years to come.

Arterion said...

I think what this proves statistically is that the more blacks you live around, the more likely you are to be racist.

I have to say I completely agree with this assessment. Why would you learn, over your life, to hate the culture of a particular race if you haven't had to deal with it?

Michael Morgenstern said...

Hey Nate,
Another thought as to the causality relationship here. Because the presence of blacks in a southern state seems to be heavily correlated with how much of a slave state it was, I'd be willing to bet that states with more blacks tend to be more racist states. For example, in 2001 blacks constituted 16% of Arkansas, 11% of Missouri, 22% of North Carolina, and a whopping 36% of Mississippi. I'd be willing to bet that Mississippi is the most racist of those states, and the two facts stem from the same causal factor.
Cheers, thanks for the work you do!
Michael, 23, Los Angeles

(my data is from http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf)

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信次 said...

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! ^@^

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平平 said...

^^ very nice

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徵信 said...

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酒店上班請找艾葳 said...

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艾葳酒店經紀是合法的公司工作環境高雅時尚,無業績壓力,無脫秀無喝酒壓力,高層次會員制客源,工作輕鬆,可日領現領
一般的酒店經紀只會在水水們第一次上班和領薪水時出現而已,對水水們的上班安全一點保障都沒有!艾葳酒店經紀公司的水水們上班時全程媽咪作陪,不需擔心!只提供最優質的酒店打工,酒店上班,酒店打工環境、上班條件給水水們。

水水們妳有缺現金、有卡債缺錢卡奴的煩腦嗎?想到日本留學日本打工嗎?妳是工讀生找工作??想要擁有高時薪又輕鬆的夜間兼職工作,打工機會和,假日打工,兼職工作日領假日打工的機會嗎??想實現夢想卻又缺錢沒錢嗎!??整天還在煩腦如何賺錢有什麼賺錢方法,和賺錢最快方法!?,想要打工,日領工作,短期打工,兼差工作,打工兼差工作嗎!?,
請加入我們艾葳酒店經紀公司工作單純輕鬆”高時薪”又可日領徵想要當傳播妹,上班小姐,酒店兼差,酒店兼職,歡迎學生打工,!!!
加入我們實現夢想就從現在開始^__^

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