10.09.2008

Why You Don't Bluff

There's been some discussion about whether John McCain's announcement last week that he was pulling out of Michigan was some kind of stunt. Well, Rasmussen has the first polling out of the state since that announcement, and it gives Barack Obama a 16 point lead. This is a state that, as recently as a month ago, looked like it might be the most important swing state in the nation.

Voters really, really don't like it when you blow off their state. That's why Hillary Clinton romped to such huge margins in West Virginia and Kentucky in the Democratic primaries, where Obama essentially refused to campaign. It's why Obama won by more than expected in Wisconsin and South Carolina, which Clinton pulled out of early. It's why Rudy Giuliani's decision to ignore every state that didn't begin with an 'F', end with an 'a', and have 'lorid' in the middle was a catastrophic failure.

So even if McCain were to want to re-engage Michigan now, he'd be facing a much steeper hill to climb. In Rasmussen's internals, independents have gone from favoring McCain by 12 points on September 21 to favoring Obama by 11 now. Nor is McCain getting any benefit of the doubt from Democrats, who now prefer Obama 95-3. If you act like you don't care about somebody's vote, you aren't going to get it.

188 comments

Bill White said...

It's why Rudy Giuliani's decision to ignore every state that didn't begin with an 'F', end with an 'i', and have 'lorid' in the middle was a catastrophic failure.

Florida ends with "a"

jez sayin'

Otherwise an awesome post!

Dr. said...

"Floridi"?

Anthony said...

Floridi?

jeremy said...

Arg says Obama up 8 West Virginia! Too bad it's Arg. Nate, what do you think of Mccain heading back to Iowa.

Dr. said...

Dagnabit, Bill - you beat me to it!

ryan said...

Everybody's a critic :)

Lance J said...

McCain = OWNED

Bill White said...

Up 8 in WV?

Pinch me, I must be dreaming!

vinraeth said...

Yes, I'd imagine campaigning exclusively in Floridi is about the most ineffective strategy ever. No one even knows where it is! :D

Christopher said...

Agreed, NEVER announce your failure. Just slowly draw down and keep up appearances. Thanks McPhail.

nick said...

"If you act like you don't care about somebody's vote, you aren't going to get it."

Which is why Utah is going to vote for Barr in a landslide this time around, am I right?

Also, Nate, I am holding you to your previous claim about when I can expect my jetpack.

Bill White said...

That 95-3 figure for MI Democrats is sweet! I guess all that primary unpleasantness has been forgiven.

Leigh said...

Any comment on this NYT article about voters being purged from the registration rolls in swing states?

nantel said...

The map has been looking more and more like a blue invasion of Red America. Now that IN and MO have moved from white to light blue we see that WV has lost some of its deep red.

The question is where to next? What's the next state to switch color? Georgia?

Vote said...

McCain is Not Racist, as Far as I Know

2nd Debate: Live Analysis


Checkout my piece on Youth Voter Registration. For every 100 registered voters aged 18-24, the democrats accrue a 9 vote advantage.

Obama 343, McCain 195

Oct 8 Polling Update

ihatethetv said...

I think he meant Flouride?

http://www.filmsite.org/drst3.html

Aaron said...

Damn, ten other people beat me to the "Floridi" comment :) Didn't they have their primary back in Smarch?

Forcefield said...

Damns. WV +8 reported at RCP and everything! Could this be the ever-expected Ralph Stanley Bounce?

Anthony said...

More like Flori-duh for Nate...

Chris said...

Floridi is just southeast of Alerbammer, if I'm not mistaken.

malevolentmuse said...

I'll refrain from pointing out the Florida spelling boo boo. =) I don't believe the ARG poll in West Virginia. Remember, they with Kentucky, are the ones where exit polls showed a quarter of voters said race was an issue for them ... and Obama was crushed. I think it's just one of those weird polls ARG has sometimes, but I do think he's doing better than Gore and Kerry did (remember, WV used to be reliably Democrat).

As for Michigan, I don't think it was a stunt. McCain is in a world of hurt especially with finances. He can't add anymore money to what he's got and has to save that for a last minute push. Expect the RNC and others to try to pick up the slack for McCain.

Bryan said...

Damn, ten other people beat me to the "Floridi" comment :) Didn't they have their primary back in Smarch?

No, that was Floreda.

moondancer said...

It was a bitter pill when WV went red. It is not a typical Rove/Dobson state. Religious yes, but in a way a union coal miner's religious, not a prick like Ralph Reed. WVa should be blue, welcome back. And I hope the DNC works that place to keep it that way.

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

Here's some great news:

Virginia is now "lean democrat" on RCP's map, and West Virginia is now a toss-up.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Projection: Obama 277 McCain 158

You conservatards should be getting nervous!

jeremy said...

When West Virginia miners are complaining about the NRA harassing them I'm not sure the Arg result is impossible.

nelleellen said...

Sean, any chance that we will be seeing a narrative of your journey in Tennessee? It sounds horrendously epic.

Trevor said...

WV typically votes for Democrats when they win, and even some of the times they lose (one of Dukakis' 10 states, and one of Carter's 6 1980 states.)

Massive Dem registration advantage (57-30 as of 2006) although a lot of them are conservative.

Patrick said...

Floridi? That's America's wang!

Sedi said...

"You conservatards should be getting nervous!"

The realistic ones -- including Real Joe and Mule Rider -- have pretty much consigned themselves to the likelihood of an Obama presidency. Three weeks is a long time in politics and it's true that anything can happen, but it had better start happening very soon or this election is over for McCain. Early voting is already starting in many places, and upwards of 1/3 of all ballots will be cast early this year.

Poker Samurai said...

---WV typically votes for Democrats when they win, and even some of the times they lose (one of Dukakis' 10 states, and one of Carter's 6 1980 states.)---

None of that applies to Obama. Can you see why?

Real Joe said...

what are the new Ras numbers ?

joel said...

WV has changed in presidential elections, very republican on national level. I find it hard to believe they would vote for a black man with an arab name.
Keep in mind it`s ARG. If Obama can win here McCain may not get 100 Electoral votes.

tony said...

In the midst of all this euphoria, isn't anyone worried about McCain's latest ad?

I've watched it, and it gives me a very bad feeling.

It's by far the longest McCain has put out, and it just goes on and on about Ayres, terrorism, and Obama's guilt by association.

Could it have an effect on the undecided voters?

Will we see a tightening of the polls?

Or will it merely please the "Kill him" neanderthalers.

John M. said...

High five, Aaron.

And posters upthread are right - why *announce* that you're pulling out of a battleground state? (ND/AK/GA weren't exactly battlegrounds, so it's a bit different). It seems like McCain is keeping some ad spending going there regardless, so all this did is completely trash his chances to win the state. I can't come up with any good reasons for how his campaign is acting in MI, unless this is once again a failure to control leaks on the part of the McCain campaign. (Quick, point out a damaging leak from the Obama campaign at any time in the last two years.)

Real Joe said...



Obama Rally in OH


http://us.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2

Biden Rally in MO


http://us.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream3

pvegeta said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt_TnQqkVyk

Greatest Obama related video EVER.

David said...

Ohhhhh, Nate just got picked off first base.

John M. said...

Tony, I was hoping Obama would call McCain out on Ayers at the last debate. He did a good job pushing McCain's buttons in the Gibson interview the next day, but he has an annoying tendency to let a few too many things go when he thinks he has a lead.

markymark said...

I think it was genuine enough, announced in the lead up to the veep debate (burying news) but who knows why you would even announce it. By all means do it, but why bother announcing? Just seems like the McCain camp don't have much idea of controlling there message to me. (Actually I am not sure they really know what there message is? Obama is a terrorist is not much of a message?)

Pat Andriola said...

A nice article on ARG'S West Virginia Outlier:

http://notalreadycommon.blogspot.com/2008/10/introduction-and-args-west-virginia.html

Rodney Peterson said...

It's amazing how little support there is for McCain. especially from objective intelligent people. The more I read about him, the more I think he's never been good enough for any position of power-after all, he didn't even manage to graduate in the top 99% of his military class even with all his supposed "untouchable" status as an Admiral's son.

CUTTING CONFESSIONS-a bizarre love story partially set in the world famous psychiatric hospital known as the inspiration for the Eagles hit Hotel California-as well as Lake Havasu, the Las Vegas Strip and Beverly Hills-a midwestern man and a Beverly Hills girl are brought together by repeated acts of fate:

www.myspace.com/392370338

The criminal idiot who text messaged me a death and stabbing threat against Bristol Palin and her unborn child plus the 14 year old girl raped at the hospital referred to above-what would happen to her in Sarah Palin's America?:

www.myspace.com/370392338

2much2lose said...

This really NEEDS to get out there in the news channels and in front of the nutty Palin fans.

Alaska Independence Party hates America and Palin will do their keynote speech

Jeff said...

I don't know. CNN had McCain +5 in WV as of Sept 22. The way things have trended the last two weeks, it's not unrealistic to think it may have tipped the other way by now. Maybe not +8, but turning blue is a real possibility.

jnorthrop said...

@pvegeta - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt_TnQqkVyk

Brilliant!

fred said...

Tony-

People are scared, I don't think the politics of fear are going to win this one for the repubs. Americans are finally starting to understand this is a policy contest and not a popularity contest - Obama wins that one easy!

Kennyb said...

It's like the macro-version of not asking for a person's vote, a la the famous Tip O'Neill story.

That's the reason why I was so against Obama blowing off Kentucky and, especially, West Virginia, in the primaries. Not only did he not establish a ground game by failing to compete there, but he gave a collective F. You to those states. He'd be ahead in West Virgnia (or more ahead, depending on if you believe ARG today) if he had done that. It would be his Nevada back-up.

markymark said...

John M, I don't think a Presidential debate is necesarily the forum for attacks or bringing up what some people perceive as your weekness. Actually I think Obama has been pretty good at defense in this campaign. Virtually every attack ad from McCain has been rebutted within 24 hours.

Lani said...

Does anyone think Obama should visit West Virginia?

I don't think it would be a bad idea. Nate, can you find out how many offices are there? Would you be willing to go there?

I think Obama should go to Alaska, Georgia. Alaska out of respect since it's the only state he didn't visit and Georgia because he's got a small chance of winning.

Eric said...

anyone have the legit #s from Ras or a link? All i see is jersey and michigan

Patrick said...

moondancer said...
It was a bitter pill when WV went red. It is not a typical Rove/Dobson state. Religious yes, but in a way a union coal miner's religious, not a prick like Ralph Reed. WVa should be blue, welcome back. And I hope the DNC works that place to keep it that way.


I just read a great article by George Packer in the New Yorker about why Democrats lost places like WV.

Andrew said...

In the midst of all this euphoria, isn't anyone worried about McCain's latest ad?

No.

I've watched it, and it gives me a very bad feeling.

Being lied to frequently has that effect.

It's by far the longest McCain has put out, and it just goes on and on about Ayres, terrorism, and Obama's guilt by association.

Anything about the financial crisis? You know, the top issue for an overwhelming number of voters?

Could it have an effect on the undecided voters?

At this point, Obama is at or approaching 50% in almost every national poll. He doesn't need the undecideds to pull out a win.

Will we see a tightening of the polls?

Maybe, but if so, it will be statistical noise.

Or will it merely please the "Kill him" neanderthalers.

It will please them, and the concern trolls. That's about it.

jonathan said...

Gang-- I live in Michigan. Peoplehere aren't worried about a depression, they're convinced we're in the midst of one. And they're right. GM and Ford are losing so much money, people are realistically thinking that they may go out of business. Obama is all over the airwaves--with positive ads (and some negative ones, to be sure)-- but the really good ones, where he loks into the camera and talks. McCai's ads (they're still up, and of course on cable) are all about scaring people to death. But people are already scared to death--they want hope. And help. I don't think the pullout is that big a deal, except insofar as it demoralizes republicans and totally screws at least two vulnerable representatives. I think McCain just scares the bejeezus out of an already terrified population; who wants that? Obama in short is--surprise surprise--here with the right message at the right time. Calm is good.

markymark said...

Why the Dems should through Lieberman out of the Caucus now. He may well choose to leave the caucus himself, stabbing newly elected President Obama in the back as he goes. November the 5th Lieberman should be out of the Caucus.

Joseph said...

Going back to Michigan for McCain would be like Perot reentering the race in 1992 -- total disaster!

Nickname unavailable said...

Pat Andriola said...
"A nice article on ARG'S West Virginia Outlier:

http://notalreadycommon.blogspot.com/2008/10/introduction-and-args-west-virginia.html"

No. Just pat's own opinion. Nice post of your own blog, Pat.

I see the troll Rodney is also back.

But none of this is going to work. The DJIA just sank another 679 points.

Memo to McCain campaign: It's the economy, stupids!

Poker Samurai said...

---That's the reason why I was so against Obama blowing off Kentucky and, especially, West Virginia, in the primaries. Not only did he not establish a ground game by failing to compete there, but he gave a collective F. You to those states. He'd be ahead in West Virgnia (or more ahead, depending on if you believe ARG today) if he had done that. It would be his Nevada back-up.---

You understand these are both states where "I would never vote for a black person under any circumstances" polls at around 16%, right?

Eric said...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl78

Hell yeah. McCain's little angry old geazer rant about the projector in a Chicago Planetarium doesn't fall on deaf ears it pisses a lot of us off. I want the govet to spend $3MM on things like that. His whole earmakr spending bullshit is so stupid. Anyone here good at math. McCain was a terrible student and terrible at math. If he weren't, he'd realize that $13 billion dollars is virtually nothing compared to a $700BB bailout or $1 trillion dumb war or $10 trillion debt or $300 bb in tax breaks for oil companies, rich folks etc. Why does he whine like a little bitch about $13 BB in earmarks? F***ing moron. Obama is the one that teamed up with a right-wing Oklahoma Senator to pass legislation to have all federal spending disclosed on the intenet. Not to ruffle Mcstupid's feathers, but his one claim to fame is he's a reformer. He hasn't reformed shit in 26 years. Obama got this legislation passed almost as soon as he got to Washington. McCain is a weaker candidate than Bob Dole or Michael Dukakis. He's pathetic!!!

He said...

TODAY RASTMUSSEN POLLS, AVAILABLE TO PREMIE MEMBERS SUCH AS ME:

NC
HeroMcCain 51%
ZeroHussein 47%

IN
HeroMcCain 49%
ZeroHussein 44%

Florida
HeroMcCain 51%
ZeroHussein 45%

As you can see, libtardos, your ZeroMuslim is losing badly in all states. DEAL WITH IT! Soldiers and war heros like me, who has fought in Bagdad for your freedom, refuse to vote for a Communist Muslim like Obamma.

DROP THE ZERO AND GET WITH THE HERO!
McCAIN/PALLEN 08
PALLEN/THOMAS SOWELL '12 & '16

Real Joe said...

fake polls..lol

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Does anyone think Obama should visit West Virginia?"

Joe Biden will have to do this work. He comes from coal miner stock (the Irish). FDR never went there beyond passing through to Warm Springs. Nope - he sent Mrs. Roosevelt. Why? She connected with their plight in a more direct manner. Biden is one of them.

I personally do not think McCain alone is losing this election. Palin is killing him, too. All she does is talk to audiences of THEIR base - STILL - in OCTOBER!!!

#2, they cannot separate them as Obama and Biden can do. Why? This is horribly inefficient. Yet, they are only speaking to their BASE.

If WV goes blue in the next week, look for Arkansas and Louisiana to be shading white next. Especially LA - I am sure there are a good lot of folks who want to give the GOP a good "F-You" for Katrina in LA.

Real Joe said...



A half-hour of prime time?

James Hibberd reports:

Barack Obama has purchased a half-hour of airtime on CBS, sources confirm.

The Obama campaign will air a half-hour primetime special on Wednesday, Oct. 29, at 8 p.m.

Sources say the Obama camp is also near a deal with NBC and Fox. It’s not yet clear if an ad buy is locked on any other network, however, or if the duration or time period is the same.

Mark said...

Is it possible to show the odds of the map ending up identical to 1996 or 1992? Those are starting to seem much more realistic than 2000 or 2004.

Brad said...

Hmmm, methinks those polls are fake...

Real Joe said...

$$$

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

I wouldn't be surprised if the next Arkansas poll had McCain in a low single digit lead. The last poll taken was on 9/22 by Rasmussen, with an M+9. With all that's happened since then, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Brad said...

Mark-

I won't be happy until we get the flipped 1980 map...so I will never be happy.

Joseph Wright said...

@Andrew,

You and others here keep talking like this election is in the bag for Obama. Look at Kerry's numbers for October in 2004. Steady climb until he was almost even with Bush. This can still happen with McCain. The negative ads may not be working - yet. But if they keep pushing them, and they will, enough people are going to see them that they stand a good chance of having an effect. The Rebublican attack machine is formidable and I would not underestimate it.

Matt said...

They say McCain is a gambler. I think most real gamblers would love to sit down at a table with him for an evening and clean him out.

Maybe then McCain would understand what it meant to be middle class.

DC Sox Fan said...

This is great news...for JOHN MCCAIN!!!!

Mark said...

Love the Ralph Stanley ad! I guess the only better take would be to have him singing the classic "Oh death, can't you spare me over for another year?" with a photo of elderly McCain followed by Caribou Barbie. I mean, the song alone sends chills down your spine!

Mason said...

Re: Obama Live in Prime time

Woah... I wonder if O is gonna go Perot on us! Gimme some pie charts!!!

Matt said...

McCain really screwed the pooch in going hard with this Ayres crap at a time when people's retirement and college savings are slipping away. Dumb decision by a dumb campaign.

Kid G said...

Does anyone know why these crashes always seem to happen in October?

Eric said...

Not to labor the point, but the only thing McCain can wrap his little mind around is this whole earmark thing. Why? He should have never been elcted to Congress in the first place. Realizing he had to make a name in some way for himself, he pretends like earmarks are an issue. Nobody gives a shit Senator. you dumbass. It's important to understand what we're talking about here. $13 BB a year dispersed throughout the country for projects that make the country a little better everywhere. $13BB. That's less than 2% of the bailout. That's about 1% of the cost of the stupid Iraq War. Why is he such a tool. Why do the Pubs nominate dimwits. Good lord. Somebody back me up on this. I'm a stats guy, but I'm sure tere are others of you out there. His whole campaign is built around this whole earmakr garbage. Does anyone realize, the sole reason we have a $10 trillion debt is because McCain's hero created it for us. McCain can't fill his hero's shoes, but his hero spent so much money we didn't have it's ridiculous. I'd actually prefer about 10 times the earmarks and pork that currently exist. Spend money on pet projects to make all the towns and cities throughout America alittle better instead of wasting it on things like a stupid war that makes us less stuff or tax breaks for people that don't need it. How about we have a tax policy similarto Bill clinton's and Ronald Reagan's, instead of GW Bush's X 2.

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

Look at Kerry's numbers for October in 2004. Steady climb until he was almost even with Bush. This can still happen with McCain.

Exactly, McCain's numbers will steadily climb until he was even with Obama. Then he'll lose.

Vanessa said...

joseph wright,
Kerry never averaged a lead from the end of the convention to the election.

I do not underestimate the Republican attack machine but you must understand, this is not an election about galvanizing the base. It's about winning independents. Attacks tend to galvanize the red meat base but alienate independents.

There were attacks about Ayers today, but some folks looked at their 401k's and it's down 7% in just one day. Tone deaf Republicans and a lackluster nominee.

Andy said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Brad said...

The repub atttack machine is formidible, the problem is they have ne real attacks.

The repubs attack on taxes, and then they look at Obama's plan and find the repubs are lying...

Repubs attack on Ayers, and facts show there is no there, there. Another repub lie.

They attack Obama on Wright, and find that Obama alked away from him.

WHILE, the public is finding thart Palin is unqualified, the Bush economy is tanking, and the war in Iraq continues with no end in sight to the war or the cost...

He said...

At this point in 2004, Kerry was ahead in every single pole by at least 9 points (sound familiar, Obamabots?).

In 2000, Al Gore was winning in a landslide against the Great Bush.

The Great Bush ended up beating both Gore and sKerry by very comportable marjins.

You libs seek therapy. You'll need it when the HERO defeats the ZERO in November.

US MARINES!
WAR VETERANS FOR MCCAIN!
OVER AND OUT!

kellysirkus said...

it is shocking to me that McCain cannot see reality:
The Drama Stunts work against him.
The Smears and Fears work against him.
The LIES work against him.
Are we to believe that everyone working on his campaign does not get it?

oddly, I remember back in June wondering the exact same thing about the Clinton Campaign.
How can these people be so out of touch?

Nickname unavailable said...

McCain's strategy - rile up the base, raise suspicions about the opponent (without confronting him face-to-face) and demonstrate conclusively that McCain doesn't have a clue about what to do. McCain has no plan!

Who cares about higher taxes when that voter doesn't have a job?

McCain campaign. worst. campaign ever.

nick said...

"DROP THE ZERO AND GET WITH THE HERO!

Great news for John McCain? I think I am doing it wrong.

More about Michigan, I really am not sure Nate's analysis is covering all the relevant ground here. MI was going pretty strongly blue to begin with, we have had this massive economic crisis which has made McCain seem the inferior leader of the two, McCain stood alone in wanting to leave MI (Palin and the state GOP pleaded with him to stay), so really can we say that it was all because of the pullout itself? ND didn't seem to take it so hard when Obama did the same thing, but it was handled better than this.

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

At this point in 2004, Kerry was ahead in every single pole by at least 9 points (sound familiar, Obamabots?).

No he wasn't. I'm pretty sure Bush was ahead in most polls.

In 2000, Al Gore was winning in a landslide against the Great Bush.

Before they stole the election...

Jeff said...

Too bad that you don't understand the fundamentals for the race we have joseph wright. Kerry and Bush spent september and october switching places on the electoral map, however, bush held the electoral-vote advantage two thirds of the time. Also, Kerry had leads in PA WI and MI that were all within the margin of error. Obama is polling in double digits. Factor in that Obama is very competitive in NC, IN, MO, FL, VA, and OH, and you've got an election that is very nearly "in the bag".

Look at it another way. For McCain to win he has to sweep ALL OF the follwoing NC, IN, MO, FL, VA, OH, NV, AND overcome a decent deficit in CO, NM, or IA

Andy said...

Maybe it was a misread memo. When the memo went out to suspend the McCain Campaign, someone in the disorganized office read it as suspending the McHigan Campaign.

And once the tickets from Detroit to Tampa were purchased, they couldn't afford the change fees.

Ah, well. Better luck in '16.

Democrats for Change said...

Hey, what about Texas? I haven't seen a poll since 9/29. I've been doing a lot of walking for Obama in my precinct and others in Collin County (heavy Republican) here in North Texas, and I'm telling you, there's a storm brewing in favor of Obama. If anecdotal evidence is worth anything, McCain is losing ground fast in Texas! The rose is off the Palin bloom as well.

Joseph Wright said...

Thanks for your feedback everyone. All I'm sayin' is, don't start celebrating yet. That's about all I'm seeing here the last few days. There's a month left to go and that's a long time. McCain was ahead not much more than a month ago.

boulder-liberal said...

Tony-

I haven't seen the ad, but I think any kind of character assassination ad will backfire.

People are seeing their retirement accounts vanish. This economic crisis is bad. There is no way McCain will get away with smoke and mirrors. He has to explain how he will do a better job than Obama in fixing the problem. Its just not possible.

Kid G said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Bryan said...

Right, Kerry had a seemingly-insurmountable lead at this time in 2004. Oh, wait.

Voice of the Midwest said...

Jonathan-

Thank you for your story. MI is not alone in its' suffering, but it is at the top of the heap in the Midwest when it comes to the Despair Index. I love your state, even the crazy mini-Bible Belt among the southern band of counties.

My hope is that the state takes the lead in the Green Economy in alternative fuel and electric vehicle production. How does that happen? Let the auto industry have its' own single-payer health care system within the American industry applicable to current workers and retirees. It will reduce insurance costs by 70%. That is what is driving the industry into debt.

Two, the $25 billion bailout recently granted to the industry has to be dedicated to paying suppliers and re-tooling the existing operations for the Green Economy.

Three, MI has to reform property taxes - AGAIN. They have to make smaller towns like the one we go to in the summer (Gobles) attractive to suppliers, producers, and other industries with quality educational systems. Not just Detroit is on the brink in MI - small towns are getting pounded.

Four, wind fields on the west coast of the state.

Last, Michiganders need to keep the faith. It is always darkest before the dawn. You are Midwesterners - tough. Keep your heads up and realize in five years, this will all be behind us.

VOTM

SBT Staff said...

He:

1. Your numbers are wrong.
2. "Comfortable margins?" Do you remember something called A RECOUNT?

Darío said...

Michigan is the only state with Obama is ahead in national security too.

Vanessa said...

Joseph wright,
I hear you. We're not celebrating. A lot of us are giving money and our time.

We're keeping our feet on the pedals.

jfruh said...

Good lord, these swing state voters are spoiled. I mean, really? You were thinking about voting for McCain, but then he needed to commit resources elsewhere, so you didn't get to spend an hour listening to his stump speech or thirty seconds shaking his hand, so now you're not?

I'm voting for Obama because I think he'd be the better president, not because he came to my home state to kiss my ass.

Matt said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

tony,

The new Ayers ad is doomed to fail and will likely backfire.

All will be clear after the election and people start discussing why the McCain camp just didn't get it.

Anthony Burns said...

this is why the 50 state strategy is awesome

RWD said...

This election is really not like 2004 at all. Kerry was a terrible candidate who attracted little enthusiasm among democrats. Most Kerry voters were just voting anti-Bush. The economy was in decent shape, certainly nothing like the carnage now, and we had only been in Iraq for 18 months.

Quadrivium said...

Any comment on this NYT article about voters being purged from the registration rolls in swing states?

Leigh,

I voted today in Indiana, one of the states mentioned in the article.

I don't dispute the possibility that some legitimate voters may be shut out somehow. But remember:

(1) With early voting (in Indiana and many other places), if there are major problems with legitimate voters being unable to vote, they should show up well before Nov. 4.

(2) For what it's worth, the Times does say that the problems they uncovered appear to be the result of ignorance of the rules rather than partisanship.

(3) The place where the most partisan shenanigans appeared to be taking place in 2004 was Ohio, and thankfully Ken Blackwell is no longer running the show there.

Of the states mentioned by the Times, I'd be most concerned about Colorado, a genuine swing state where apparently people are being removed from the rolls illegally; and Michigan and Ohio, where I believe there is no early voting (although Michigan isn't looking all that close these days).

mc9cain said...

Damn. Nate might not ever live down Floridi. It sure looks like potato"e" :)

(and it was such a GOOD line otherwise! That's part of the reason everyone didn't miss it)

Bill P. said...

Fake polls and nonsense talk from 'he' are GREAT NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!

Joseph Wright said...


The repub atttack machine is formidible, the problem is they have ne real attacks.


They don't need real attacks, all they need to do is instill fear. If that were not an effective tactic, we would never have gone to Iraq and the Patriot Act would not exist.

Jeff said...

Matt, there is so much wrong with what you said it's really not even funny. Your premise that Obama is a socialist is false. He's said time and time again that there is a lot of waste in the budget that he can cut out to fund some of his programs. He's said that with Iraq's massive surplus, they should be helping out with the costs we incurr over there. That's number one. Your premise that he will "Nationalize" healthcare is false. He's said that he'll give everyone who doesn't have access to health care an option to use the same insruance that congress uses. In otherwords, he would add them to the "group health insurance" plan, and he would not tax the money they pay to get into the system. That's harldy socialism.

Just because the average american doesn't know a ton about economic policies, etc., doesn't mean they're too stupid to know who would be better for the country.

Reiner Wandler said...

I have created a "That one"- count-down-widget to 11/4, 8 am ET. You can get it from my blog http://mimpresion.blogspot.com . You find it on the upper right corner. Click on "Get this widget" then go to "options", then to html and you will get the code. Copy it and paste it on your web or blog. Enjoy.

jdbird said...

I'm a conservative and I can freely admit that this race is over unless Obama starts hanging out at the Neverland Ranch. . . I'm writing in Bobby Jindal/Tom Selleck.

Darío said...

The Patriot Act is freedom Matt?.
Where is the individual freedom in the Patriot Act Matt?.

Voice of the Midwest said...

The Ayers line is not working in Indiana. Spot polling is showing that it is increasing McCain's negatives (not to mention Palin more)in the state.

People know better and, frankly, they are less apt to let the negative crap through the filter when the economy is such a bleeding thumb issue.

The Selzer Indiana poll will be telling. They have polled the last three nights and are concluding tonight. Each night, McCain's negatives have increased from 42 to 44 to 47 in each sample.

I can assure you it is a combination of the economy being tagged to the GOP and his ultra-negative approach.

Even Republican straight tickets have a 31% negative view in IN on average the last three nights. He only holds 70% support among the base while Obama is at 92% in IN.

These are worrisome numbers for McCain. This is why he is taking out the red meat: even the diehards of the GOP (the base) is not completely with him.

Most stunning number in IN: 22% consider themselves evangelicals. Of that, McCain has 44% support, Obama 42%.

Telling. The complete poll with cross tabs will be published this weekend.

Hayford Peirce said...

Real Clear Politics FINALLY has a map showing O'Bamagh winning 277 EVs without throwing in any of their so-called "toss-up" states. About time!

Jack-be-nimble said...

Here is what is not being said yet.

The big panic drop in the stock market is the reaction to the current prospect of an Obama Presidency. They are trying to discount the destruction to the ecomomy that will come due to the socialism of the ecomomy. You can thank Obama for the destruction of any retirement that you have.

markymark said...

Gore never led in a landslide. He may have led the odd pole by a decent margin, but a landslide was never on the cards. Obama has had a much more settled lead, and even if he hasn't, generically Dems have all year. I am not saying its going to be a landslide this year, certainly not gonna say it yet at least, but this thing has been reasonably settled for a long time. Noise, bumps and politics have had the margin move around, but when has McCain been within 4 points of Obama consistently? (More than a week or so)

markedman said...

I've been feeling so great about this election all day and then I saw this youtube clip and I got VERY DEPRESSED

I can't believe 1: This is in PA
2: There are so many stupid people


:(

Christopher said...

Jack, do you realize how ignorant that is. Have you done ANY research at all? The economy always does better during democratic administrations. We are now at a net negative on the stock market for Bush's term. And you want more? Are you a sadist?

Real Joe said...

hate vote is with us

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Jack-be-nimble said...

"Here is what is not being said yet.

The big panic drop in the stock market is the reaction to the current prospect of an Obama Presidency."

It's not being said because it's dumb, that's why.

johnny said...

I think that some of you are being a little hard on WV, and I say this as a Pitt fan, the sworn enemy of WVU. Areas in the panhandle of the state, where a sizable chunk of the population lives, are basically exurbs of Pittsburgh and traditionally blue. Cities like Wheeling have had an influx of a relatively younger, more cosmopolitan population the last several years, this nugget coming from a friend who was an openly gay resident.

Many of the "blue collar" workers who live within 40 minutes of the PA border, and commute to PA to work, understand that the cost of gas is killing them more than having Obama as president ever could.

So, let me be the first to suggest not to sell the Mountaineer State short.

WVU football still sucks, though.

cjc1214 said...

1. Has anyone conducted a good statistical estimate of the "Bradley" effect on the EV count in battle-ground states? (Not just adjusting the national poll numbers by a few percentage points.)

2. What is the most conservative estimates of the turn out for younger voters (18-35) this time?

Andrew said...

The big panic drop in the stock market is the reaction to the current prospect of an Obama Presidency.

Link, please...

Real Joe said...

lol

stock market is going down because of the current credit crisis not because Obama is winning

Jeff said...

jack-be-nimbe:

Lets not forget that a Democrat occupied the white house when the dow TRIPLED. In addition to that, the budget was balanced when he left office and there was a SURPLUS! Please run along now, and learn your history little boy.

TBender said...

Here is what is not being said yet.

That's because it is not true.

Mason said...

"...bleeding thumb issue."

I've never heard that phrase, but it's great. Brings back memories of hitting my thumb with a framing hammer.

jroc133 said...

Good god. What is it w/ all of these right-wing "socialist" spewing idiots who have the audacity to think that "their" party is looking out for their best interests?

In all seriousness, as an American taxpayer who loves his country - can anyone explain to me how the right-wing media got so many middle class Americans hoodwinked and bamboozled into thinking that if you disagree w/ Republicans in anyway that makes you a communist/socialist, terrorist sympathizer, muslim, who also happens to be a gay crack addict?

Please explain to me in just simple terms and no smart alec remarks how the right wing got people buying into Democrats being socialists?

Even now, as the UK are about to nationalize their banks b/c we're in the midst of a global economic meltdown, idiots on the right are saying that this country is turning towards socialism...

Even today, there's report that the Bush Administration (yes, I said Bush Administration) is contemplating to taking part ownership in banks. Now, why aren't those on the right screaming socialism for things like this?

I just want to point out how I view all of this - CAPITALISM beats out all "isms". And that is what we are seeing. From Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, and now 700 Billion more added - Capitalism wins at the end of day...

One last point: after years of middle class americans being pissed about Democrats taking their tax dollars and giving them away to low income families through government programs, the most amazing thing that the right tries to wipe under the rug is the fact that the Bush Administration just bailed out their constituents w/ our tax dollars. Some people on the right have been so preturbed w/ minorities and low income families for not pulling their weight, that its now our tax dollars that are stuck w/ the bill of bailing out all of these corporate idiots who are already financially secure and who more than likely vote conservative to begin with...

Still, someone please give a rational and thought provoking answer to my question...

Thanks...

Real Joe said...



Change to Win to Drop Anti-McCain Health Care Fliers

The pro-Obama labor federation plans to distribute about a million pieces of mail in swing states attacking McCain’s health care stance.

Mailer says: “George Bush and John McCain: Leaving working Americans SICK and BROKE.”



McCain needs to get out off PA

markymark said...

Actually its fairly common for stock markets to be nervous in the lead up to elections. Itsd the uncertainty as opposed to any specific policy proposals. I think in some sense the US economy may be in slightly better shape than it at first appears right now. I wouldn't go as far as saying that the fundamentals are strong, but once President Obama has come into office things may calm down and the US governmenbt can slowly start to sort out the economy.

Eric said...

It's not a surprise that after the country has been run into the ground by the Neo-Cons for 28 years, they're frustrated when they see the writinig on the wall that they're about to lose big time. Their world is coming crashing down around them. They realize they're losing all of their power and it makes them sick, so they bitch and whine. Why would that be surprising?


Question:

What are the legit new Ras #s? I see Michigan and Jersey. What about the others. One thing for sure. They have no other states posted anywhere on their site.

fred said...

I have to got to see Obama's fund raising number from last month. They seem to have a bottomless well of money - half hour on primetime, millions of fliers, huge ground game, outspending at least 3-1 on TV...

WOW

markymark said...

Incidentally notice how McCain didn't suggest Phil Gramm for Treasury Secretary? Thats how good McCain's judgement on the economy is, picking Gramm as your economic adviser. (Notice McCain is the one who has had major staff trouble in this election? Even down to the VP? Is he the guy you really want nominating judges to lifetime appointments?)

Nickname unavailable said...

The chaos effect:

1. Unknown actress Jere Ryan accepts offer to play a Star Trek character.

(She decides to divorce her husband, who doesn't want to move to Hollywood, her husband's sexual peccadilloes are exposed during his campaign against Barack, and Jack Ryan withdraws, another Republican loser. In order to give Barack a boost in his Senatorial race -- although now he's running against the perennial kook Alan Keyes who moves to Illinois to confront him -- the Democrats give him the keynote speech at their 2004 convention.)

2. Barack Obama decides not to take public financing for his general election campaign.

(While Barack is publicly lambasted for doing this contrary to his earlier pronouncement that he would use public financing if the Republican candidate would, this move demonstrated he was a practical politician who understood that his viral Interet fundraising could allow him to run a 50-state strategy.)

3. Barack Obama decides not to name Hillary as his VP pick.

(McCain the impulsive gambler, decides to go for Hillary voters, thinking all he needs as a running mate is a woman with a well-used uterus. After the economic melt down on the day McCain pronounces the fundamentals of the economy strong, he looks like a chimp for not choosing Mitt Romney. And Palin has tanked since then.)

Of course, no. 1 turned out to be the game changer. And Barack Obama has been lucky the same way the Boston Celtics were lucky.

Lincoln said...

McCain sure knows how to piss off voters. Check out the dude from the town hall who McCain said "probably didn't know" about Fannie or Freddie:

In defense of the Senator from Arizona I would say he is an older guy, and may have made an underestimation of my age. Honest mistake. However, it could be because I am a young African-American male. Whatever the case may be it was somewhat condescending regardless of my age to make an assumption regarding whether I was knowledgeable about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

franglais said...

I wonder if more states will follow Mich's lead once they see this:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

Sarah Palin palling around with secessionists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eniG9l_7its

Mason said...

Fred-
They don't disclose those numbers until the 20th, I'm afraid. However, the Obama Campaign has stated that they had about 1.5 MM new donors last month. In past months, the mean donation has ranged between $68 and $75. You can do the math, no doubt?

Eric said...

There are 4 potnetial reasons to vote Pub right now:

#1 Pro-Life

#2 NRA type Pro-Gun

#3 Low taxes on everybody, extra-especially the trickle down theory with the rich and corporations

#4 HAWK HAWK HAWK


I disagree with all 4 principles the way the Republican party has bastardized them and taken them way far to the right.

This is why I could not vote RepubliCON no matter who the cnadidate. It just so happens that they're Neo-Con radicals at this point and most of the country is on board with me.

EmonOkari said...

Are we at the point where McCain makes a Hillary-esque remark about how "some" Presidential candidates get shot?

Or is that next week...

markymark said...

Of course, no. 1 turned out to be the game changer. And Barack Obama has been lucky the same way the Boston Celtics were lucky.
---------------------

What Obama traded for 3 of the best players in the NBA? What with his outside shooting, maybe Obama will win the NBA championships as well?

Darío said...

West Virginia is a toss-up now in RCP average.

Gerbie said...

Stockmarkets are afraid of a third steal in a row!

Alamala said...

Matt, your argument would be more persuasive if the American version of capitalism hadn't just rolled over and died, and if the American healthcare system worked for a few more people.

Matt W said...

OK, this is out of control.
Obama has his own sattelite TV channel, I figured it must be pretty cheap.

Now we learn he has bought 30 minutes of prime time on CBS!
Politico has the story.

I am dying to check out his fundraising numbers!

Nickname unavailable said...

@Markymark

I am talking about the Celtics of the 1960s and 1970s. It was clear they were lucky, not the best. Except that they always won (the Lakers were the team they always beat), and in the end all the bounces went their way because they were also prepared. And smart. And tough. And had the best coach (Red Auerbach.) So maybe it wasn't just luck.

Capiche?

Eric said...

markymark said...
Of course, no. 1 turned out to be the game changer. And Barack Obama has been lucky the same way the Boston Celtics were lucky.
---------------------

What Obama traded for 3 of the best players in the NBA? What with his outside shooting, maybe Obama will win the NBA championships as well?


He got game!

Supporters, read Dreams of my Father. It's fascinating. He wrote it in 1995, before he was a somebody. It's the most free, open autobiography you'll likely ever see from a would be President because he wrote it so long ago. If I recall, Kennedy wrote a book after WWII, but before he was a Senator or Prez. I never read it, has anyone here?

Eric said...

Nickname unavailable said...
@Markymark

I am talking about the Celtics of the 1960s and 1970s. It was clear they were lucky, not the best. Except that they always won (the Lakers were the team they always beat), and in the end all the bounces went their way because they were also prepared. And smart. And tough. And had the best coach (Red Auerbach.) So maybe it wasn't just luck.

Capiche?


They also had Bill Russell aka David Plouffe

Nickname unavailable said...

@Eric

Profiles in Courage. It was mandatory reading for a Democratic kid, as I was back then. About politicians who did the right thing, not the most political thing. Good book, but there were doubts he really wrote it.

Shawn said...

Real Rasmussen

Florida
Obama - 50
McCain -47

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/florida/election_2008_florida_presidential_election

North Carolina
Obama - 49
McCain - 48

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/north_carolina/election_2008_north_carolina_presidential_election

Matt W said...

new thread

markymark said...

I was talking as a Celtics fan, and just joking around anyway! Luck always plays a part in sporting triumph BUT the Celtics won last seasons championship by good general management (18 months ago I'd never say anything good about Danny Ainge) good coaching (Doc Rivers is the most underrated coach in the NBA right now), and determination of players and a team starved of success over a prolonged period of time. Much like the Dems this year- superior candidate, well managed and looked after, and a base determined to win.

eric, I have never read 'While england Slept' (or is it Why England Slept?) But anyways its widely acknowledged that Ted Sorensen ghostwrote that with JFK. Obama didn't use a ghostwriter.

markymark said...

In the above post I did mean Profiles in Courage! Still ghostwritten though!

Blame said...

Let me see.

The main thems are:

1) Obama is nigger who hangs out with terorists.

2) McCain has no understanding of economics and hangs out with criminal bankers.

Lets assume they both work. Seams to me McCain gets the social Conservatives & Obama gets the Fiscal Conservatives.

Is is going to be one hell of a glue job sticking the Republicans back together after they loose. In fact I am at a lose to see how it can be done.

McCain 2000 might have lost, but he would have moved the GOP in the right direction for regrowth. McCain 2008 is something else.

Forcefield said...

NC +1 !!

The ground game here in Greensboro is incredible guys. I think NC is going to be a big nasty surprise for McCain come Nov. 4.

Everett Volk said...

Shouldn't the snarky name for the McCain campaign be McPhailin?

tomthress said...

"Even today, there's report that the Bush Administration (yes, I said Bush Administration) is contemplating to taking part ownership in banks. Now, why aren't those on the right screaming socialism for things like this?"

To be fair, there are plenty of economic conservatives who are "screaming socialism" about Bush and Paulson's recent actions. Actually, I think McCain's last best chance at competing in this election would have been to side with them and vote against the bailout.

Juris said...

Everett: that is a great name for the GOP ticket -- McPhailin.

Heraclitus said...

Nate/Sean:

Congratulations on all that you have accomplished here. Although fivethirtyeight is pretty much required reading for me now, I am afraid that the only way I will remember to read it consistently after the election is if you provide an RSS feed that I can add to my Google Reader or Google Homepage. If you're worried about losing ad revenue, you can publish an excerpt of your feed using feedburner. Please - every single other blog I read on a daily basis gives out an RSS feed, why can't you?

Patrick said...

Jack-be-nimble said...
Here is what is not being said yet.

The big panic drop in the stock market is the reaction to the current prospect of an Obama Presidency.


I thought that the reason McCane tanked was the financial crisis, meaning HE was AHEAD when it hit. So which candidate scared the market?

Jeff said...

"#2, they cannot separate them as Obama and Biden can do. Why? This is horribly inefficient. Yet, they are only speaking to their BASE."

They have the problem that if McCain has events by himself he can't fill even fairly small venues. Palin's presence draws the crazy-base people and at least prevents that embarrassment.

Shawn said...

From CNN

"A string of new state polls also show Obama holding significant leads in several key battleground states, including Minnesota, New Hampshire, Ohio, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. McCain is holding onto leads in Montana and Missouri."

Hahahaha. Holding onto MT and MO!

jslater said...

Hmm, as a long-time fan of the Detroit Pistons and a current fan of Obama, I don't really want the Obama campaign to be likened to the rival Celtics. What does that make the Pistons -- Hillary?

Robby said...

He

Unfortunately, there's this thing called "the internet", where you can "research" this stuff called "data." It's pretty cool.

So, you say Kerry was up 9 points on this day in 2004?

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2004/Pres/Maps/Oct09.html

This was right after the first debate, in which President Bush had to actually speak off script occasionally (in other words, his worst possible campaign scenario). Scroll down for the national poll numbers...

Democracy Corps: Kerry +1
The Economist: Kerry +1
Greenberg/Quinlan: Tie
Gallup: Bush +2
IPSOS: Kerry +4
Marist: Bush +1
Time: Tie
Zogby: Bush +1

And by the way, a pole is a "long slender usually cylindrical object", often a "shaft;" poll was the word you were clumsily looking for.

Thank you, come again!

Robert M. Blevins said...

Nate - Saw you the other day on MSNBC and thought you represented Five-Thirty-Eight very well. I keep mentioning and linking this site in my Newsvine articles. In a reletively short time, I think this site has become a powerful force and one of the best analysis sites on the Electoral Vote. Keep up the great work.

Robert Blevins - Founder - Publishers and Authors for Obama, Managing Editor - Adventure Books of Seattle and the Escape Velocity Magazine.

Timberman said...

Love following your election...our future up here in Canada (the other (but friendly) country that Palin can see from her backyard) depends on the outcome.

Some of you might be aware that we are having an election here (only 6 week campaign) next Tuesday. Interestingly, while McCain's support has been tanking a lot in the past week or so, so is the support for Conservative party and our Prime Minister, Stephen (Bush Lite) Harper. Only two weeks ago there was talk of a majority gov't now it looks like we will have another minority government.

Keep yp the good work

Rich Rifkin said...

"Voters really, really don't like it when you blow off their state. ... It's why Rudy Giuliani's decision to ignore every state that didn't begin with an 'F', end with an 'a', and have 'lorid' in the middle was a catastrophic failure."

This is a non sequitir, Nate.

Rudy G. did not ignore Florida, at all. Yet that is the state he needed to do well in, but failed to do so despite paying it so much attention.

John McCain, on the other hand, blew off Iowa (far more so than Rudy ignored New Hampshire). Did McCain's non-competitiveness in Iowa harm him in NH or other later states? No, of course not.

Rudy blew off a few primaries prior to Florida, which may have been a big mistake, but his doing so did not necessarily hurt him in Florida.

Terri said...

So CNN is reporting that Obama has bought 30 minutes of network time for October 29. Interesting.

Hayford Peirce said...

Rich, you didn't carefully read what Nate said.

He said that Rudy ignored every state *except* Florida. And that he got creamed in those other states.

And that he spent *all* his time in Florida. Where he got creamed anyway.

McCain ignored Iowa, sure. So that he could work in N.H. -- which he won.

*That's* what Nate said.

And, guess what? McCain is gonna get creamed in Iowa in the general election....

Floyd said...

This is a strange campaign, McCain has to compete in a much wider field than he planned to. It was obvious with Michigan how his pulling out affected the polls, but what about other traditionally red and yet swing states such as North Carolina or Indiana? Even though they are in play, the McCain campaign does not seem to pour a lot of money or effort into securing them. Did neglecting their votes help Obama make these states competitive? Or in other words, was Obama's 50 state strategy a win-win situation? If so, it may dramatically change the way future campaigns are waged.

Juris said...

So McCain is a gambler? From what I can see, he's a loser, a patsie, free money -- throwing away his wife's inheritance.

Now Sean, I understand, is really a gambler, and from what I found on the web he's won some pretty serious money playing poker. And Nate has something of a reputation for online poker. These two are gamblers, not losers.

assmole said...

If McCain actually went to MI, held a few rallies it might reverse the polls. But it's unlikely he would think of doing it. And if he did, he would probably only talk about Ayers and shit instead of the economy. A complete McDufus now is he.

jbs said...

I see a lot of posts and stories about early voting. Are there any exit polls? If so, results; if not, why not?

Jack-be-nimble said...

obama lovers,

There will be no reconciliation after the election if he wins. There will be no coming together. He will have 47% (or whatever % McCain gets) that will never accept him as president, due to his divisive approach.

He will inherit a big recession and Dems will be voted out of office in 2010.

Art said...

Is there still such a thing as "the most important swing state"?

Eclectablog said...

I have a piece up at the Huffington Post that details one of the down-ticket races in Michigan's 7th Congressional District that is seeing influence from the top of both tickets. Obama's surge in Michigan is benefiting Mark Schauer while McCain pulling out may well prove devastating to Tim Walberg's attempt to hold on to his seat. Check it out for more details.

lexigeek said...

This is my first post, and I just want to say how grateful I am, not to Nate, Sean, et al (though I am grateful to them) but rather to the commenters here. Over the last several days, this campaign has taken a decidedly ugly turn, and no matter where I go, the comments and discussions on news and political Web sites are filled with venomous attacks from both sides. This seems to be the one oasis of calm civility, where people can (usually) disagree with one another without resorting to angry hyperbole.

So, sincerely, thank you all very much!

Roger said...

I have to got to see Obama's fund raising number from last month. They seem to have a bottomless well of money - half hour on primetime, millions of fliers, huge ground game, outspending at least 3-1 on TV...

This is what changed most in American politics in the last 4 years (Dean started it, Obama has built it into an unstoppable machine): when you can build a party that's well financed on just millions of $100 individual contributions given over the web, and whose ground game is recruited on MySpace, you don't have to get indebted to large special interests. You can turn down all the PAC money, and you can build a party that actually represents the people. 4 yesrs later, if you represented them well, they'll give you another $100. If you didn't, well, more fool you -- they won't be donating, and may donate to your opponent. So now the Democrats don't have to sell out to big business for the campaign contributions with strings attached, they can -- and indeed have to -- thumb their nose at them and do what's right for the people, since the people are where most of their money is coming from.

Currently, the Republican's are still stuck sucking at the teat of Big Business. That's why they're this wierd alliance between the super-rich (who fund the Republican campaigns) and the poor, un-educated, and bigoted (who can be tricked into voting for them with "socially conservative" window-dressing and hate or fear filled attack ads).

Sooner or later, the Republicans are going to move into the 21st century and start gathering donations online. Whne they do, they're going to drop Big Business like a vote-less hot potato, and go all-socially-conservative-all-of-the-time combined with a tax-and-spend economic populism policy that's unashamedly in favor of the poor, uneducated, and rural voters. There are already "Conservative" thinkers publishing books advocating exactly that. And that's how McCain is cating his latest mortgage proposal (though it's actually an even better bailout for the banks than the current one) -- the government giving huge numbers of tax dollars to the poor and uneducated who took out foolish mortgage loans.

In response to this, the Democrats are going to be forced to end up being the party of the well off, as well as the educated and socially liberal, i.e. they're going to end up looking rather like the Libertarians.

So then it'll be the Uneducated People's Party (R) vs. the Educated People's Party (D), pure and simple, without odd crossovers like Real Joe -- he'll now be voting for the fiscally responsible low-tax small government Democratic party.

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Don't go to the other thread on this site---it is ugly.

Rich Rifkin said...

Hayford: "Rich, you didn't carefully read what Nate said."

In point of fact, I read Nate's comment carefully. You seem to not understand what a non sequitir is.

Nate said, "Voters really, really don't like it when you blow off their state."

I agree with that. Voters in Iowa didn't like it when McCain, for example, blew off Iowa.

Voters in subsequent states, however, don't care about that. Therefore, Nate's conclusion that it was because Giuliani blew off some early primaries that his campaign floundered -- "It's why Rudy Giuliani's decision to ignore every state that didn't begin with an 'F', end with an 'a', and have 'lorid' in the middle was a catastrophic failure." -- does not follow.

edgeways said...

your continual decline amuses me Jack.. keep it up, lord knows we all need the laugh.

Oh and which part of the Republican party will still be standing come 2010? Expect major infighting and fracturing, hell this might be the birth of a(nother) third party.

strech said...

Heraclitus:

There is an RSS feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/538dotcom

Mike in Maryland said...

jroc133 said...
. . . can anyone explain to me how the right-wing media got so many middle class Americans hoodwinked and bamboozled into thinking that if you disagree w/ Republicans in anyway that makes you a communist/socialist, terrorist sympathizer, muslim, who also happens to be a gay crack addict?

It was the Republicans themselves, pounding (since Goldwater lost in 1964 and even more so with Nixon and every R candidate after that) with the 'Democrats are socialists, and socialists are Communists' mantra every time they gave a speech. Then when the Reich-wing radio blowhards like Lush Rimbaugh started bloviating, it went 24/7/365.25 .

jj said...

I LOVE McCain's stunts!! They've all worked out so well for the republicans.

cmadler said...

Since McCain announced that he was withdrawing from Michigan (2 weeks ago?), we've noticed no decrease in his TV ads, and we've actually started getting flyers for him in the mail. This, in one of the most strongly Democratic areas of the state.

Jim said...

McCain's campaign didn't announce the Michigan pullout until after it had already been on the news. At first, they wouldn't even confirm it. At some point, they may have decided it was better not to be caught in an obvious lie, and to have an excuse for when they do lose Michigan.

Jim said...

The article said that the first post-announcement Michigan poll was by Rasmussen, and gave Obama +16, but I don't see that (or anything since a 9/30 PPP poll) on the right-hand-side details.

Is that a freshness issue, or are some polls not included (or at least not broken out)?

Jim said...

MIRS (Michigan Information and Research Service ... mostly covers Michigan State Government) newsletter Editor Kyle Melinn had a darker suggestion, but it might be true.

He suggested that McCain may have pulled out because "the only way he could win Michigan was through a racially charged campaign he didn't want his paws all over."

I don't remember seeing anything but negative ads for McCain in months, and they haven't slowed down, so it isn't clear what his pullout really means -- except that he now has deniability.

There had already been some targetted cable ads that even the Michigan Republican Chair admits were appealing to racism, though they were from an independent group.

Apparently the Bradley effect went into double-digits in a pair of State Senate races two years ago.

I hope it wouldn't be nearly that high statewide, but ... Melinn says the expectation is still 5%, which would have made it a dead heat at the time.

cynicalsynapse said...

Regardless of your views or preferences, McCain's blowing off Michigan is likely to cost him the election. How could he so publicly diss a swing state and kick it's voters to the curb?

On top of that, he didn't feel it necessary to notify either his running mate or the state and local Republican organizations. What kind of leader makes decisions without involving his key people? That's pretty fricking scary!

So, Michigan has been affronted by Obama when he dropped his name from the primary. And McCain turned his back more than a month before the election. Interestingly, the independents have opened offices in Michigan. Maybe it's time to vote completely outside the main parties. After all, they don't seem to be representing the people very well any more.

If "Joe the Plumber," McCain, and Obama are not as they seem, who can average Americans trust?

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