10:06 CDT: [Nate] The CBS poll of undecideds had Biden winning the debate 46-21, with 33 percent calling it a tie. But few votes were moved as as result. Among the undecideds, 18 percent committed to Obama, and 10 percent committed to McCain, but 71 percent remained uncommitted.
Biden won the CNN and CBS focus groups. Palin won the Luntz focus group. The candidates tied in the Halperin focus group.
9:38 CDT: [Sean] Brett and I are going to rush over to SLU where Sarah Palin is having a rally, and then later a few well-earned drinks in the Loop. Nate will do some post-mortem thoughts in a bit.
9:37 CDT: [Nate] I think this one is likely to go to Biden in the post-debate polling, and perhaps by a fair margin. The expectations game is much more important for the media than for the public, and for a lot of people, she's going to come across as too scripted, come across way too close to the SNL caricature.
9:29 CDT: [Sean] The woman too chicken to face a press conference says she sure doggone bumdiggity wishes there could be more of this with less of that pesky media involved.
9:24 CDT: [Sean] Biden is really hitting it strong here at the end. Really emotionally connecting with kitchen table issues and middle class struggles while Palin has been cutesy throughout.
9:23 CDT: [Sean] Wow, Nate.
9:22 CDT: [Nate] What kind of prop odds could you have gotten on Biden being the one to cry?
9:21 CDT: [Sean] Biden has had a number of moments where he has emotionally connected, including that moment just there, where he looked like he was choking up about a child who might not make it. Biden's best moment of the night, hands down.
9:19 CDT: [Nate] I think her VP answer might be one of those things that turns out to be a bigger deal after the fact.
9:16 CDT: [Nate] Actually, the dial-testers liked her last answer. [Sean] It was a "Whoa!" breathtaking moment here in the crowd when she said the teachers' reward would be in heaven. Given that Obama has argued for increased teacher pay, I have to believe this is going to be an issue the Obama camp pushes in the coming days.
9:14 CDT: [Sean] Palin's suggestion for the vice-presidency, as a tweak? Maybe give it a little more power. There has been open laughter at Palin the last few minutes. Wish I could see those dials.
9:12 CDT: [Sean] Palin on Biden's teacher wife: "God bless her, her reward is in heaven, right?" That is the sound of every teacher in America voting for Barack Obama. Wow. What a mistake.
9:07 CDT: [Sean] It seems the meta thru-line of Governor Palin's performance tonight is that we need change from the folks who've been in Washington for a long time. That can't be a good thematic element.
Biden, on the other hand, was strongest in the beginning when he was middle classing it up left and right. He's gotten away from that.
9:00 CDT: [Nate] For those of you with CNN HD, watching the analyst scorecards reminds one an awful lot of watching Olympic Boxing.
310 comments
so funny - 99% of the time this blog is so nonpartisan, then debates come along and Nate shows his wildly pro-Obama stripes.
LOL. Palin says Nukcular like Bush. OMG she is so funny
what does that mean? Olympic boxing - I need an explanation
why does it matter how you say it?
it should only matter if you know how to lead.......gets tireing hearing people keep bringing this up...next.
I've noticed that Biden often gets better responses from women than men. I think the demographic-based VP selection backlash has cost the GOP.
Is it too much to ask for a national leader who can pronounce Nuclear?
Finally. Someone else is pissed about Olympic Boxing.
Also, for what it's worth, Facebook status updates and commenting in a network is actually more fun that reading a liveblog. It's not something anyone planned, but it's a spontaneous organization-thingy that strikes nice balance. Not that the liveblogs aren't nice, but it's a nifty use for a somewhat useless application.
Idea... what if Palin is intentionally saying "nucular" to generate sympathy among the people who don't know better themselves and will react to the criticism she will receive...
Also, I don't have CNN, so can anyone tell me how it seems to be going with the trackers? All I know is that apparently Biden is doing better.
On the throbo-meter Iraq and Afghanistan are winners for Joe. Who has not made a gaffe -- yet.
But ther is still 30 minutes left.
Palin is still standing! Amazing. Palin is getting pummeled with her attitude about Biden voting for or against the war. Her childish, cute approach doesn't work.
I love how Palin spends 5 seconds answering the question and then moving off topic for 2 minutes. She is too funny
Palin has decided to answer all foreign policy questions by referring to oil in Alaska.
Every answer from Sarah Palin sounds like a Markov chain. Terrifying.
-- Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin --
"so funny - 99% of the time this blog is so nonpartisan, then debates come along and Nate shows his wildly pro-Obama stripes."
He has always said that he's pro-Obama, but he doesn't let it get in the way of the mathematics. I don't see what you're complaining about. *shrug*
Ed Rollins is such a hack. I have no idea what debate he's trying to score, but I haven't heard Palin answer a question all night.
She's using the Triffid effect. She thinks because she's cute, it will make all the bad people go away or be good.
olympic boxing... anyone... help...
the body language from biden is priceless
How about Biden and his 75 Collegues was tricked into voting for the war. or The War was completely based on a lie or was mismanaged.
biden seems like hes being forcefull kind of like mccain last week with obama.
who knew scott mclellan is our commander in afghanistan?
LOL, I should keep a counter on how many times she says Nukcular. Biden is wordy but at least he can say Nuclear
Joe is doing an outstanding job. Forceful but not threatening, delivering up serious substance. On every question, Palin is running down the clock with her vague generalities. Answer the gosh-darn question, will ya?
Why is she mentioning Pundits in every sentence.
Why don't you guys do twitter?
Biden home run
:-(
exactly, can someone pls. explain the olympic boxing comment?
score cards?
Biden looks like a young C. Montgomery Burns.
WTF is she doing with her eyes ???
She needs to quit winking at the camera and raising the pitch of her voice when she reaches a dead end and tries to squeak out. Gah.
She just dissed Congress which is being stymie by her Own Party!
Biden is hitting it out of the park on the throbo-meter discussing Obama's olicies. It was a homerun of gargantuan proportions. Thanks Gwen, for the softball lob to a seasoned politican.
Palin is doing well on this one, too, better with women which is the reverse of how she usually does.
This wasn't a soft ball. This was a T-ball for both of them.
Speak for yourself. She looks cute when she winks. :D
Wasilla Main Street
Teenage Republican Daughters getting knocked up in Juneau.
Olympic boxing (you guys correct me if I'm wrong) is relating to the fact the CNN scorecards are ridiculously partisan. Rollins has Palin at net +37, while Rosen has her at net -8. It's similar to Olympic boxing, where judges from two countries involved in the bout are drastically different in their scoring.
5-0 Dodgers
Oh no, here comes folksie Sarah! This woman is a joke! Gosh darn it.
I don't remember a single thing either one of them has said all night.
Joe Biden knows what the Bush Doctrine is!
Biden sure loves Home Depot. I wonder if he takes the train there?
WOW, Palin literally begging Joe not to talk about Bush.
LMAO!
Biden must be intentionally not pointing out factual gaffes by Palin that don't affect their policy -- the commanding general in Afghanistan is McKiernan, not McClellan.
OMG>>
Except now I'll forever remember that shout out to 3rd graders.
she was funny there. great line about school kids. loved it!.
She spends way too much time attacking Biden. Not cute. catty
It's obvious Biden is far more knowledgeable than she is.
She does well for being a two-term Mayor from Moosesnot.
A shout out? What is this: TRL?
Hawkeye State - thanks
Shout out to those 3rd graders!
?
?
?
I mean, in certain times,that would be cute. But it just comes off as frivolous.
Is it too much to ask for our leaders to pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly without sounding like a retard...AK
why do women like palin and biden more then men? is there somthing not clicking? i thought men would like palin more and women biden.
rossi:
Olympic boxing is well known to be biased in its judging. If one boxer is being pummeled by, say a US boxer, the score will remain uncannily close no matter how lopsided. That's what Nate's getting at here. To an educated, unbiased observer going only on pertinence of answers and depth of content, Biden is kicking ass. The pundits, however, are calling this close. BTW, I am not unbiased.
re: 9:12 / "reward in heaven" -- also kindof crass, IMO.
this is a disaster
lets wait for the focus group feedback
I can't believe she did a shout out.
she has never done anything for special needs children except cut funding
Just say "damn". you look like an idiot
Palin sounds like she is running for vice president....of High School.
Btw, nice joke..... I'm glad she takes this seriously. And, and, and, and, and, and...
CNN.COM BREAKING NEWS
Childgate Scandal just emerged.....
extra credit for watching a debate, who is going to be supeanas for this one?
interesting debate so far otherwise.....
On the "teacher in heaven" comment...
maybe all teachers will flood to Obama, but did those watching CNN see what the voter meter did when she was talking about education?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand....there's a meltdown on this question about the Constitution.
Biden is being a professional, and the people- especially on the CNN ticker- are loving it. She's making sloppy drunken attacks, and people aren't liking it as much.
Plus, a SHOUT OUT to THIRD GRADERS?! She's going down.
Palin is looking like she needs to go Poo. Hold on Palin, just a few more minutes
Wow. Palin doesn't know what branch the VP is in
The "women" line on CNN's meter SPIKED for Biden slamming Cheney.
huge state ?
WTF
Look at Biden go on the constitution!! This man really knows his stuff, and the audience is recognizing his intellect.
She's spitting out scripts. That opener was so artificial...
An empty vessel, who pronounces nuclear wrong, spewing out whatever Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Lieberman tried to drill in her head.
What could go wrong here?
wow, the debates almost over!.....i have hardly looked at the clock at all......last week i looked like 20 times before it was over.
this debates so much better.
go palin!
Holy crap. Being an Alaska resident, I'm quite embarrassed listening to her speak. She can't even speak properly - daggone, ya, speakin', etc. etc. etc. I know Alaska is considered to be the "removed bible belt" state, but she makes it sound like we should reside next to Texas. Frustrating.
"Heartland of America" OMFG. Stop,
Interesting that she was asked about the Cheney thing. Her coaches were good to have picked that one out for her notes.
There was applause when Biden called Cheney the most dangerous VP ever.
Now she's saying she has a world VIEW! WTF!
I'm cringing.
When are Reps going to realize that Regan stole the "city on a hill" line? :-/
Real joe stop breaking character. Don't you have the "real" debate tracking meter to report?
Palin overplayed the "folksiness" bit. She will be lampooned for it, and it will be contrasted to Biden's professionalism.
Another mistake on part of the McCain team.
Six "analyst scorecards" at cnn.com:
Biden +2, +3, +5, +14, +34
Palin +28 (Rollins)
The people aren't buying her little pro-democracy facade as well as they bought Biden's mastery of the constitution.
Palin cites Reagan as talking about a "city upon a hill."
Think she's heard of John Winthrop?
John McCain tapped her? Nice.
If only the scorers did what they used to do (still do?) in gymnastics: just take out the first and last scores and average the others. Used to be the US and USSR judges didn't even need to show up for their gymnasts, so regularly were they ridiculously biased.
Let's hope Americans aren't as hyper-partisan as the pundits would have us believe in this case...
Wow, people absolutely loved Biden's last speech. Well done, sir.
Palin, stop repeating "maverick." People aren't impressed.
I think Biden nearly lost it when he was talking about his deceased family. Good to show his human side, and very natural. Now she's going on about politics. It shook her. Her voice changed. And she just cited Lieberman!
I'll say again. I can't believe people are buying this. She comes off as a total fake.
She said: this is the time for McCain to leave! Freudian slip?
Maverick has now replaced POW as the go-to McCain buzzword.
She basically just said "I've never had to compromise because I'm so bipartisan."
amazing.
Every single time Palin says MAVERICK, the dials take an absolute dive. Nobody's buying that label anymore. It just seems tired.
(And while Blogger is down, Biden nails her on it!)
I am abolutely convinced they've fed the ACTUAL questions prior to the debate. Even Debate Camp can't aticipate all thse questions.
Biden almost jumped into a Springsteen song there! I love it.
He should bring up Anheuser-Busch getting bought out. He'd win Missouri.
We need to build infrastructure and reign in spending!
She thinks there is no MSM filter on this. Hmm...I can't see the on the spot tickers, but I'll be she doesn't know they're there, either.
Pass what in the blood stream?
'back in the day when men and women were free'???
Relax porridge, if the CNN meter is any indication, people aren't buying her bullshit as much as you think.
Biden will come out on top as long as the focus is substance.
A twenty-five second Reagan blockquote? WTF? Reagan's dead, I can't vote for him.
Palin is hillarious. She is the new Bush.
Is it me, or did she answer the VP question as if she were running for Prime Minister?
Nail. In. Coffin.
It's over, folks.
Everyone who wants an erratic maverick for prez, raise your hand.
He comes with a representative of the Alaska Chamber of Commerce.
Amazingly strong ending from Biden. I'll bet she wishes she had thought of it.
Biden Won. I thought it was draw last week, but this this one was pretty stark.
At least on substance and solutions to the problems.
Biden end well?
with an emphasis on "mortem"
PALIN SAID *NUCULAR* FIVE TIMES.
Remember the last person who did that in front of the mic?
The word maverick is now officially like nails on a chalkboard for me.
I listened on the radio. She did not sound very bright or that she understood the question. I thought she would do better than this.
Did she come across better on the teevee?
Wolf looks chipper. He must have some good news for his buddy McCain.
Apparently, mentioning the senate is deadly. Americans really hate Washington.
She's very attractive so she does come across better on TV. But Biden also came off well. I was flat-out amazed at how well the audience reacted to Biden's Iraq position and how poorly they reacted to Palin's. It really isn't 2004 any more.
My unbiased opinion as a Obama supporter. I think Biden won of course. Biden is the best debater of the 4 by far. Palin met her low expectations. I think she actually exceeded them. Alot of sarcasm with her. She has a great accent and alot of charisma. The winking and the aww shucksness should play well. Alot of bubba voters will love her. The republican base should be re-energized. She did very well and her likeability should climb a bit. She had no substance or real plans or ideas. Everything was taxes, energy, maverick and Alaska. But bubba voters dont respond to substance or Washington speak. I dont know how it will play with independents. But conservatives should be encouraged.
Biden A+
Palin B
Vote for Debate Winner!
Mule Rider, I understand that you're a Republican (or at least on the right wing) who seems to be dissatisfied with the performance of McCain and Palin thus-far. What were your thoughts on the closings of the debate, and her excessive use of the "maverick" line (which fell upon dead ears, if the audience-meter speaks for anything)?
"Did she come across better on the teevee?"
She looked at Biden most of the time, actually. And she had a couple of very strong winks at the camera. She actually did quite well in terms of personability.
On the issues, and the whole pesky "answering the questions that were asked" thing, less good.
CNN going straight to the focus group makes me nervous. Last week it was like they wee holding it off until people went back to the ball game.
@Jen: I watched a stream online, and Palin came off to me as looking like a Soundbyte machine. When asked to speak she looked hesitant while addressing the question, then you could see the little wheels in her head turn for a second while she puzzled out how best to pivot to her talking points. Usually though she just chose to simple jump into them with no apologies.
Frankly, she looked like a scared little robot all night.
She met the low expectations but did have a bad tendency to completely sidestep questions and go straight into talking points. All pols do it during debates, some just better at the segue than others.
is mule rider admitting defeat??!?
is mule rider admitting defeat??!?
Some of us said earlier that even if Palin did okay it wouldn't matter a great deal.
Well, she did "okay". And it won't matter a great deal.
No major gaffes, but it's also quite obvious that she is totally fucking clueless, especially on foreign policy.
IMO the story tonight isn't Palin -- it's Biden. He got no attention coming in, and IMO he came across as prepared, intelligent, experienced and very human.
i've never hated a word as much as i now hate the word 'maverick'.
palin reminded me of cruella deville every time she tried to go cutesy. what a nightmare.
I do NOT appreciate the 'cutesy' bullshit from a prospective VP. I do believe that the United States of America deserves greater respect from those people who choose service as a way of life- such as public officials....
I also do not appreciate the republican party thinking (or did they think this one out?) that the female vote can be captured by a cutesy hockey momma. We - the women of this great nation - can and do execute rational thinking and self respect.
S. Palin detracts from the notion that women are equal; she is a disgrace.
One thing that was missing from Biden tonight was a couple of zingers. And his zingers are usually pretty good.
I can't believe the differnce between these two. Biden acted like an adult. Plain acted like a cheerleader for McCain and Alaska.
I asked on the previous thread if she was running for Governor of Alaska. It was just cringe-worthy every time she opened her mouth.
"Palin met her low expectations. I think she actually exceeded them."
She did better with foreign policy than I expected.
Still not comfortable with the "commander-in-chief threshold," although I think it's a moot point because if McCain were elected I think he would make it through 8 years.
MSNBC talking head lady saying Palin never made a single distinction between McCain and Bush policies all evening.
Just on the warmongering aspect alone, I don't see how anyone can vote for the Repub ticket.
The moment Biden choked up about his son-?
Biden just won my heart.
Election politics is usually just theater and "family" gets trotted out as a buzzword. But that was real. He's brilliant on foreign policy, I've watched him in action. But that moment changed my perception of him. That was real.
Speaking as an Obama supporter, I can't believe Biden went for the "kid's not gonna make it" choke-up (yes, I know he is talking about an actual event in his own life) - it seemed calculated, but it seems like he pulled it off. He hit a lot of strong notes, including that one, and had just enough jargon to seem informed while still coming back into simpler language at the right times.
Palin did a good job with the folksiness, but the majority of the debate seemed like she was reading off cue cards. Only the canned joke lines were really delivered naturally throughout the night. She didn't blow up, but hit the same notes so many times that it seemed repetitive by the end. Seemed very coached to me, but I pay more attention than the average voter.
Grades:
Biden: A-
Palin: B-
LOL, the guy said no more national interviews. Why oh why? I need my Palin fix on a daily basis. We love you Palin, just not as VP. But we love you
"MAVERICK" -- coulda been the best drinking game of '08!!!
Has no one mentioned her aggressive use of notecards...that looked bad.
Her totally ignorant bullshit answer about the powers of the VP single-handedly disqualify her from office.
Or would, if she hadn't already done it 1,000 times over.
Screw the low expectations game -- this woman is a joke. She shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office.
If they insist on calling McCain "Maverick"...then I guess she's "Goose."
Palin cleared her low expectations, but this one was all Biden. I expected her to do a bit better, also, to take a few more shots, go on offense more. She basically played defense with bromides about John McCain most of the night.
38-10 Biden; she kept it respectable until he caught that last "Maverick" pick and returned it for a touchdown. But Palin was a 40-point underdog; she did well to keep it as close as she did for as long as she did. If she'd thrown deep a few more times, taken a few more shots, she might have pulled an upset.
waiting for post debate CNN national poll...
I think, overall Biden was winning, but McCain/Palin will nevertheless get back some 1-2% in the polls over the next days from McCain leaners who had feared she might be a disaster, and are now somehow relieved.
I also think we now know what McCain's strategy will be over the last weeks of the campaign: "Greed and corruption on Wall Street" - Hello Fanny & Freddy & Rezko. I doubt that it will stick. Anyway, at least it saves us from another Wright remake, and from a "foreign policy" / "terrorism" October surprise.
""MAVERICK" -- coulda been the best drinking game of '08!!!"
That's beyond bad judgement, that's just dangerous.
Congratulations to president elect Barack Hussein Obama.
I think i'll make a point to mention the middle name for the next eight years. Just to spite the folks who tried to use it for fear/race mongering...
Wow! While I was watching this crappy debate the Dodgers have gone up by six over the Cubbies.
Palin did great remembering her lines. She was extremely scripted. She did great in her rehearsed answers. I think Biden was masterful. He shown amazing restraint and I dont think he could have handled debating a woman better. If Obama could debate like Biden this race would be over.
IF you have not seen this yet, it is a do-it-yourself interview with Sarah Quaylin...
try it:
@ http://interviewpalin.com/n3
Was anyone just watching NBC? Tom Brokaw said something about how the Democrats tonight must be relieved there is only one vice-presidential debate.
Can anyone provide context for this statement from Brokaw?
I thought this debate was very similar to the first Obama/McCain debate.
McCain scored with the pundits, but Obama scored with the independent voters because of his demeanor, confidence, and body language.
In this debate, Biden scored well with the pundits, but Palin looked relaxed, confident, and her body language showed that.
I think the independent voters will give the debate to Palin for the same reasons they gave the last debate to Obama.
McCain got 1-2% also. But so did Obama. Probably more so.
Many say by actuarial tables that Palin is a roll of the dice away from President.
McCain's poor judgment shines tonight by reading notecards and reciting memorized scripts without answering any questions.
What Change does McCain stand for--a different first name than George? LOL
Damn Sean, it would be great to be back on home turf having a drink in the Loop tonight. Blueberry Hill?
On the political question, I'm not saying it will be easy from here on. Winning will take a lot more work and money. But after tonight, I think that what remains is simply 'the proper application of overwhelming force.'/mbw
anybody dvring this? i would like to know when biden talked about his first wife and daughter...I'm an Obama supporter and had never seen Biden as being a populist favor Dem but that moment did it for me. I'd like to see it again to disect a lil more
Tom Brokaw is a McCain Medua douchebag. He lied outright about Obama on Press the Meat. He's not to be trusted.
I will admit that I hate Palin's voice, though. I think she overemphasizes her "folksiness" on purpose.
That annoys the shit out of me.
Well, if that Iranian president gives her any guff then gosh darn diggity she'll just mosey on over there and homespun him to death, you betcha.
Hey Palin says lowering taxes creates jobs but sorry unemployment is higher than it was before the Bush Tax Cuts. LOL
Biden should have reminded the world of that LIE.
Allison, I think comment of the night goes to you!
My hubby thought it was funny too.
To the MSM, it's all about Palin. How she did, how the campaign uses her. Fuck's sake.
"In this debate, Biden scored well with the pundits, but Palin looked relaxed, confident, and her body language showed that."
"I think the independent voters will give the debate to Palin for the same reasons they gave the last debate to Obama."
Independent voters are idiots, then.
Someone may have already mentioned this but I CANNOT take 4 more years of NU-CU-LAR, it's nuclear....OMG!!!!!
I have never been a great supporter of Biden, but he really impressed me tonight. I see why Obama picked him completely. His knowledge is unbelievable and those lists of issues he hammered over and over again were amazing.
Palin did admirably considering the height of the bar, she didn't embarrass the ticket any further. It won't change the race at all though.
What a bunch of inane pablum that debate was. Palin impressed because she didn't drool and gibber like a simian. Biden did not dominate the issues like he should have thanks to his marble mouthed ineloquence. I was begging for Chris Dodd.
One of the best comments was by one of the analysts on PBS who said something to the extent that it sounded like Gidget goes to Washington.
CBS just announced that among their panel of "undecided voters", 18% made up their minds tonight siding with the Obama/Biden ticket, 10% for McCain/Palin, and 72% still undecided.
As to who one the debate according to CBS panel, I don't remember the precise numbers, but Biden was the clear winner by double digits.
Ok, it's over... Independents went overwhelmingly for Biden.
Thanks, but no thanks Sarah
Palin already at a rally. The McFail campaign are REALLY trying to create some momentum.
jjj1951,
LOL gosh darnit!
Fake Folksiness = Epic fail
We are not raising a White Flag in by ending the war in Iraq.
Why are Repubs against investing in America but FOR WASTING MONEY IN IRAQ. LET IRAQ RULE IRAQ.
A bunch of morons that waste our money and kill our economy with idiocy.
CNN
give me the fu**ing poll !!!
any other new polls ?
Also, come on, Palin totally overdid it with the phony folksy charm. It was so obviously a character routine.
Biden got suckered into not attacking, into being a nice guy and focusing on McCain and issues. He should have crushed her. The strategy was wrong.
I have had a hard time with books which transsubstantiate German syntax and grammar into English through prodigious use of commas. Sadly for me, this does not compare to listening to Sarah Palin. I am interested first and foremost in knowing whether she supports English as our national language, as I do. If not, would she substitute her own Alaskan creole? I think this would be a loss for us as a nation; much of our literature, and indeed our being, is tied up with the heritage of English. It seems that Alaskan creole sentences need never end, that they need not have any relation to the other sentences in a given paragraph, and that they emulate some deeply emotive if logically deficient processes of thought. I would like for Mrs. Palin to clarify her thoughts on the use of, and heritage of, English. If she has a case for why we should abandon it for her utterly (to my small mind) recondite and confusing locutions, I would like to hear it. Finally I wonder if there is some deeper nano fuzzy logic behind her language, and if she represents the next generation in quantum logical computing.
the winner of this will be decided on saturday night
McCain Landslide !!!
I think this debate went pretty much as I expected. Palin did pretty well, right up to the point when she started agreeing with anything Dick Cheney ever said or did, especially about extra "VP powers."
That gave Biden a penalty shot on goal and he didn't miss. Never get yourself in agreement with a VP with a 16% approval rating!
Biden came across as more knowledgeable but we expected that. Palin was really amateurish. I suppose that appeals to all the idiots out there who think "all that Presidentin' ain't so hard! It just takes gumption and common sense."
The economic meltdown proves the exact opposite, that you need the smartest most able people you can find to lead the country, not some folksy home-spun barn-yard "aw shucks" B.S.
But, I don't respond well to stupidity dressed up as folksy humor. Millions of Americans differ.
Overall I doubt this changed many minds. Those who wanted to love Palin found reasons to do it.
She didn't say "I'd like to use one of my lifelines." She didn't fall off the stage.
I'm sure the wing-nuts will be in full glory that she "exceeded expectations."
Since those expectations were only that she didn't misspell "potatoe" I'd say she did.
I'd be amazed if this fundamentally alters the race though.
Biden did a great job of actually finally slapping down the Maverick label. Very effective. Should really attack Mccain on that for the remainder of the campaign.
Who asked Judy Cleaver to run for VP? Gosh darn it.
Another point: I showed up with a fork and knife for some Palin schadenfreude pie. But she did well, disappointing me greatly. Yeah, she was vague and folksy and didn't seem to be saying very much, but there was a lot of feel good stuff that made you smile now and think later.
At first she came across as the "real person" in the debate.
Then, after she'd casually rattled off her lines about her family for the third or fourth time, Biden came back with, "You know, men are single parents, too" and the thing about his son...
... suddenly, she started looking like a carefully manufactured product, while he was the real thing.
I didn't expect the debates to showcase Biden.
Ok Heres the vote from the Irish Jury
First. She mentioned someone called "Talibani" Anyine know who he is
seconfd I'm a religious person, if an imperfect one. I found her saying "Bless her, her reward would be great in heaven deeply offensive." My hackles rose. How dare she judge someones ultimate destiny, and in such a patronizing way. Does God send her his naughty and nice list or something?
She came across well on the camera. she really knows how to use her looks. But the women is a stupid hateful little bitch and I hope she enjoys the winters in Alaska for the rest of her miserable life.
Oh rant over. She was scripted. Biden was statement like. On TV it was close because she knows how to work a camera but in substance Biden won hands down. CNNs tracker was all his.
Sorry for getting angry.
Personal opinion: Biden won handily. Palin did speak in coherent, generalized sentences (even while refusing to answer many of the questions). As an American, I'm relieved she at least didn't completely ramble in gibberish. And if THAT'S the bar she needed to clear to self-declare 'victory', so be it. How much will it actually help McCain in 2008? Who knows. But it may help in her re-election bid in Alaska.
Now, I also believed that McCain won 'narrowly' on points in the first presidential debate. Even though Obama won on 'style'. So maybe Palin also did well on 'style'. But I personally didn't see it. I heard a grating, condescending voice that finally was able to start a sentence and then end it...without 50 nonsensical words in the middle.
"Biden got suckered into not attacking, into being a nice guy and focusing on McCain and issues. He should have crushed her. The strategy was wrong."
Disagree.
She's irrelevant and voters know it. He hammered McCain *incessantly* and she hardly responded because she's too stupid to make intelligent points in opposition. That's the VP's role -- to attack the top of th eother ticket. Palin did it against Obama too, just far less effectively.
@ burndtdan
Scott Mclellan is Bush press Sectary Right? I do know Gen David McKiernan is the Commander in Afghanistan. Are were you being sarcastic?
I cannot believe the Dodgers may go up 2-0 in the series tonight.
Who is this team? Maybe actually meaning it when I said "That's it. I am done with the Dodgers unless they get to the Series this year." actually had an effect.
Okay, so I guess I need to say I am done with the Dems if they do not actually win the election. I will join the green party. I agree with them on the issues and have about as much of a chance to win the election as the Dems.
Hope it works!
Mule Rider said...
Nail. In. Coffin.
It's over, folks.
CTPEM said...
T.I.E.N. !!!! F.J.M.!!!
{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...
BIDEN
23% 12,765
PALIN
75% 42,237
NEITHER
2% 1,154
Total Votes: 56,156
For what thats worth...
Bede the Youthful,
Dodd reeks of Washington. He would have came off as dull next to this freakshow. He certainly couldn't have hit on the average guy on the street lingo that Biden apparently did tonight.
What are the CBS numbers? Who won outright?
CNN Poll out
Biden 51
Palin 36
Well I'm sure glad to know that she and McCain will deal with the "incorruption" on Wall Street.
56-31? I thought he did much better
CNN - Biden won by 15 points.
Peeps - it is over.
Palin has a future as a QVC presenter. Shes fake enough, and by gosh she only has two dimensions..
Allison:
"If they insist on calling McCain "Maverick"...then I guess she's "Goose.""
That cracked me up!
Or perhaps McCain is Brett and she's Bart?
Palin 39
Amen, josh. It was like listening to someone read Hawthorne poorly, while replacing actual words with colloquialisms.
"That'll do, pig. That'll do."
Palin did *okay*. If I were a debate coach, I would say that Biden cleaned her clock. But the average American voter is not a debate coach, and is not deciding whether or not one candidate wins based on debate rules or not.
She did what she had to do, which is sound like a human being. I counted only one time when she dissembled into incoherent doublespeak (her answer on executive/legislative vice presidency), otherwise she was able to string those darn sentences together and give a heckuva answer (wink). Oh sure, in many cases she didn't answer the question, or would latch onto a single key word and devolve into memorized speech, but that's fine.
She did what she had to do, which was NOT FAIL, and assuaged the Republican base that was beginning to question her intelligence. Essentially she takes the "Palin Problem" out of the equation for most voters, so now the focus shifts away from the Palin-Failboat, and onto other issues.
Which, by the way, is not necessarily good news for McCain, since he was already losing on those 'other issues' before Palin came along in the first place.
--
Oh, and while I think this was somewhat of a 'win' for Palin tonight, I would definitely say this was a win for Biden as well. Frankly, I imagine that most Democrats and many independents were quite happy with his performance and answers. For anyone that was having questions about Biden (there weren't that many), this debate probably put most of those questions to rest.
so real joe,
are you ready to jump ship?
;o)
Alex Castellanos spinning like CRAAAAAZY. McCain should make the election about Obama. He should be hitting hard in Michigan.
He pulled out, Alex. This week, bud.
Can anyone provide context for this statement from Brokaw?
He is the NBC liaison to the GOP on one of the next debates. I think I read that on Huffpost when the Gwen Ifill attacks started this week.
BTW, I think she did an admirable job. The questions were far ranging and other than telling Palin to answer what was asked, Gwen probably did as well as she could under the circumstances.
The "wah wah I hate RCP blog" decides to take a knee-jerk partisan swipe at Palin.
It's a really bad idea to inject partisan views on a page that desperately wants to be viewed as "neutral."
The networks and blogosphere seem to be coalescing around the fact that Sarah Palin stuck to a script and avoided direct answers.
Gwen Ifill did very well. She walks away from this with her reputation enhanced and intact.
And I'll probably buy her book too.
@ Charles Koz: "He hammered McCain *incessantly* and she hardly responded because she's too stupid to make intelligent points in opposition. "
I disagree - I don't think she's too stupid necessarily, I think she was too glued to the rehearsed script to be able to counter on the fly. Palin doesn't strike me as particularly stupid (or particularly smart) just a total mouthpiece being told what to say. I think Biden realized that, because about 1/3rd of the way through he started bashing McCain every other sentence, and sure enough she would just stray back to tax cuts or whatever else.
CNN Focus Group
Biden-11 hands
Palin-10 hands
What a blowout!
FOX Focus Group
Palin-20
Biden-5
Luntz who said Obama won last week and would see a small bounce says according to his group, you'll see a noticeable shift for McCain in 48 hours.
We'll see who is right.
"For what thats worth..."
Absolutely nothing, just like the rest of Drudge.
Frank Luntz disagrees with every other snap poll and focus group. He obviously recieved his marching orders from the FOX Propaganda Network. "NO REPEAT OF LAST WEEK!"
JONATHAN
the truth hurts ???
wah, wah from you...
JJ - Irish Jury?
'xplain please...
And the airhead is? Wow, can Gov. Palin even answer a question posed to her? She has as much depth as the 3x5 cards she was reading from. So is like no soccer mom I ever met.
my 79 year old momloved her some Biden !
she said she could not understand what Palin was saying with all the ands & winks & snarks... & fake accent, yah ?
Josh, check this out:
http://www.slate.com/id/2201158/
the good word: Language and how we use it.
Diagramming Sarah
Can Palin's sentences stand up to a grammarian?
By Kitty Burns Florey
[ . . . ]
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