10.03.2008

Today's Polls, 10/3

Another day, another good set of polling for Barack Obama -- with one important exception:



Nevada looks good for Obama. New Hampshire looks really good for him -- and that was one of those states where we hadn't shown much bounce for him before. Yet another North Carolina poll shows Obama ahead; for the first time, we now have him as a (very, very slight) favorite in the state. Obama seems to be gaining a point in that Morning Call tracking poll in Pennsylvania almost every single day. (EDIT: The Elon poll seems to be a poll of who would handle the economy the best -- not the horse race numbers. We will delete it with tomorrow's update).

But what's going on with Minnesota -- where SurveyUSA actually gives McCain a one-point lead?

The poll may be a mild outlier. SurveyUSA has generally shown more favorable numbers for John McCain in Minnesota than other agencies that have surveyed the state. But they aren't the only pollster to come up with numbers like this; Quinnipiac and the Star Tribune also show Minnesota close, although CNN and Rasmussen don't.

Markos Moulitsas has data on advertising expenditures that may explain the difference. Overall, in the week ended 9/30, Obama spent about 2.5x as much as John McCain on advertising. This is likely an underappreciated reason behind his recent polling surge. But in Minnesota, McCain outadvertised Obama better than 3:1. In fact, Minnesota was the only state in the entire country where McCain out-advertised Obama.

So McCain may literally have bought his way into a competitive race in Minnesota. It now rates as the 7th most important state in the election according to our tipping point metric, behind the traditional Big Three (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida), the New Two (Colorado, Virginia), and Michigan, which should probably now be scratched off the list.

It hasn't come cheaply, however, as McCain has now spent tens of millions of dollars on the state -- money that didn't go into Florida, or North Carolina, or Indiana, or Virginia, where Obama has had the advertising edge, and where the McCain campaign is now on its heels. Those are also resources that didn't go into Michigan, where McCain has withdrawn from.

So, yes, you can beat a state into submission if you really want to -- I mean, if Obama decided he really wanted to win South Dakota, he could probably do so. But whether it's been a good use of resources, we will have to see.
In certain ways, this is starting to remind one a lot of the Herschel Walker trade. And Obama campaign is not exactly unready, leading McCain in field offices in Minnesota 28 to 9.

(n.b. The cool new chart we unveiled yesterday that includes national polls is on a hiatus for technical reasons, but will return tomorrow.)

678 comments

pygmy_owl said...

I try very hard to understand the arguments of the right. I think it's an important part of my obligation as a citizen to really grapple with the arguments of all sides. That said, I'm a pretty strong progressive, with very strong leanings toward policies advocated by Obama. I support Obama for his policies, not for his personality. (I confess, however, that I also think he's a true statesman, the likes of which we haven't seen in decades.)

I simply fail to see what case could possibly tie Obama to Ayers, Wright, or Rezko, or how these could be indictments of his policies. Even perhaps more damningly, I fail to see how these are indictments of his character.

Maybe the Right Wing Conspirator can explain this to me. I'm open to being persuaded that these things matter, but in my world these fall under the broad heading of informal logical fallacies. In this case, this is a fallacy of relevance: Guilt by Association. Simply crossing paths with some of these figures, or attending their sermons, or even having a campaign event hosted by some of them -- it's hard to see how this is an indictment of character or of policy. Everybody in Congress has crossed paths with a criminal, has worked closely with someone who has fallen to indictments. Everybody in politics has endorsed policies that are shared by both devils and angels. These are irrelevant. They're not necessarily politically irrelevant, but they certainly are irrelevant to the determination of whether someone will make a good president.

adam said...

pygmy_owl,

You're thinking of all this in rational terms. The McCain strategy is to target people that don't. I'm cautiously optimistic that it either won't work, or will be balanced out by democratic 527s about the Keating Five.

Real Joe said...

any other polls ?

DCM in FL said...

BECKY

true about the Gallup bump, but doubtful that a really bad day dropped off for Obama since the gap widen today.

Odds are that he got an exceptional day today to move the #'s

and today is actually day 2 post-VP debate for Gallup #'s.

Sunday will be day 3, so by Monday even any delayed VP deadcat bounce from Palin's failure to implode will show in all of the trackers except Battleground which does not poll on weekends.

any bounce for VP should start showing today as an 'arrest' if not a reverse in the Gallup tracker since these 3-day #'s include polling from Fri & Sat because there is no indication that the Thursday #'s were great for Obama [in fact it appears they were not so great on Wed & Thur]

Guancous said...

Wait a second, right wing conspiricist is sincere? I assume he was a parody troll because he misspelled conspiracist. I'm going to apply for a grant for my study on cognitive dissonance. RWC, can I use your comments?

Where are Virginia Conservative and Florida GOP? I miss those guys. Republicans are pushing intellectuals out of the party.

Becky Sharp said...

real joe - do you ever sleep? whenever I'm here you're posting worried notes every 5 minutes. You need a life...

bmcworldcitizen said...

oct, no, fuck you, because I, like most Americans don't live in the desert, and solar is simply not viable for most of the country. Acquire some brains, please, and realize this important concept. Nuclear is the way to go, fucktard

I missed this absurd piece of nonsense, thanks for responding to it Dave.

I live in Sweden, and we have houses all the way up to the artic circle using solar for electricity, home heating and hot water. Solar power is not just for the desert ... silly original poster, and even if it were, have you not heard of these new fangled high tension power lines? Sheese.

markymark said...

I think one of the things about the whole Rezko/ Wright/ Ayers thing is that people don't care about stuff like that when they are losing there jobs. Think about it, they elected Clinton in 1992 in a poor economy election, despite an awful lot of scandals swirling around him. If there was no economic difficulty, no war, then I think they could be made to play, but its tough to make them stick in a bad year.

To be honest the thing that concerns me more is attacking Obama's record on the war and making the case that he is not ready. I don't know how McCain does that, but if he goes aggressive and can make that case, he could start to narrow the gap.

Real Joe said...

becky sharp said...
real joe - do you ever sleep? whenever I'm here you're posting worried notes every 5 minutes. You need a life...


Ha Ha

i do sleep, work

Francis said...

Becky, I was about to second your comment to real joe until I paused to consider how much time *I* spend here.

boulder-liberal said...

There won't be any more Palin bounces. The VP debate showed America that Biden is ready to be President, if needed, and Palin is not.

Her best line from thursday night was: "I've only been at this for, like, 5 weeks".

Exactly.

DCM in FL said...

GREG

R2000 internals are transparent & show that they weight the poll using party ID 35 D, 26 R [+9 DEM]

that alone explains most of the additional +3-4 spread over RR & Gallup & some others

but R200 also appears to weight the sample by REGIONS - which I do not believe the either Gallup or RR or Hotline are doing.

for years people have speculated that RR & Gallup oversample from the south & deep red states in the tracker.

look at the R2000 internals for the 4 Regional breakouts. I track these #'s since it clearly shows the real important trends to follow...

Only the South goes for Mac [by a very wide margin]

The NE is sick for Obama [more than 2:1] - amazing spread & getting wider

The Midwest & West are both Obama - but the spreads were close there a week ago - now the spreads in these regions is widening into double digits more & more each day...

amazing - I recommend to all to follow those regional trends. They lead the way to show that PA & MI & WI & others were going blue
[harder to follow for FL & NC & VA though...]

also track the R2000 generic party favorable #'s - that will indicate movement to show whether there will be a real Tidal wave of DEM wins in November.

Redshift said...

No new posts yet today. I guess the gang must have done a lot of those RCP shots last night.

Well, I guess they've earned it!

OTF said...

markymark,

It does say alot about McCain that woth 159,000 lost jobs last month, 900,000 for the year, 7yr high unemployment, record home foreclosures, inflation on the rise, bankruptcy increasing(and the #1 cause is health catostrophic event, etc...that McCain would rather go to character assassination than issues.

markymark said...

Quick law making suggestion on energy- ALL new houses made with solar panels.

And an interesting polling thing. Looking at Nate's numbers, whats missing is McCain's supporters. He has it around 51-47, if you look at most of the tracking polls they have the Obama figure around 50 or so, and McCain's numbers below Nate's number. McCain's GOTV moves may only be enough to save him from a landslide rather than winning him the election.

GregM said...

Thanks dcm in fl. Which do you believe is the more accurate party ID weighting...Rasmussen's or Research 2000's?

markymark said...
This post has been removed by the author.
realistxxx said...

More bad news for McCain. MO focus group...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/03/1491480.aspx

DCM in FL said...

interesting

here in FL one of our propositions to vote for a new constitutional ammendment allowing homeowners to install hurricane as well as alternative energy upgrades to their homes without the tax appraiser calling them 'improvements' for purposes of raising the taxable value of the home.

in other words, to encourage people to make these 'cane & energy improvements.

in the past there has been a dis-incentive.

I wish the DEMS & Obama would jump all over this renewable [and 'cane' protection] issue as 'PATRIOTIC'

FWIW

PA John said...

@van

"well thats just one poll niedda.
He did gain a point in Rasmussen."

Actually Obama went up one in the Hotline tracker too. The Rass tracker had been pretty stable for over a week:

"For each of the past nine days, Obama has been at 50% or 51% and McCain has been at 44% or 45% "

Basically unless Obama moves below 50 or McCain moves above 45, there really is no movement.

The Gallup tracker is the more sensative poll to outside events.

kjvd00 said...

Obama's lead continues to grow:

Obama + 8.25 in Today's Trackers

markymark said...

otf,

I suspect if McCain had run a positive, substantive, issues campaign, he may have been able to win this election. But there really hasn't been much substantive out of him, and what there has been has tended to be pat GOP responses (help get bad teachers new jobs, cut taxes, etc. etc ) If he is really a maverick, why isn't he out there trumpeting some clever solutions that seem totally out of the GOP mainstream?

Real Joe said...



More bad news for McCain. MO focus group...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/03/1491480.aspx



nooooooooooooooooooo.... :-(

DaWolf said...

oct, no, fuck you, because I, like most Americans don't live in the desert, and solar is simply not viable for most of the country. Acquire some brains, please, and realize this important concept. Nuclear is the way to go, fucktard

well done for proving that you known absolutely nothing about renewable energy. Know even the tiny tiniest little bit about power grids?

Thought not.

Becky Sharp said...

I worry about real joe. can we do something to help him?

DCM in FL said...

GREG

until this week it was questionable on which pollster had the best party id weighting.

but as of today, I would bet that nationwide R2000 is closer & might even be underestimating depending on GOTV & cellphone.

RR is extremely conservative in their weighting - but historically they might be able to make an argument for turnout at the polls using those #'s for 'likely'voters

time will tell, but there are certainly at least +9 DEMS by registration rolls.

even if you split the difference between RR & R2000 on party ID, Obama would have a significant lead above the MOE

regardless, the main difference is whether INDs split evenly or take sides since those #'s are significant.

so far, INDs are not flocking to Mac so...

DaWolf said...

@markymark

Quick law making suggestion on energy- ALL new houses made with solar panels.

you don't even need that. Seriously, if the government can find $700B for the bailout, they can find ~$200B for renewable energy in it's various forms. Renewable energy in the right places is cheaper than nuclear - and without the side effects.

All profits from this ~$200B reneable energy go straight into building more renewable and paying off the initial investment (at inflation-based interest rates and a long payback period).

Problem solved.

DaWolf said...

I worry about real joe. can we do something to help him?

I think anyone who votes for Obama already is.

boulder-liberal said...

"I suspect if McCain had run a positive, substantive, issues campaign, he may have been able to win this election."

He also had to make a thoughtful choice for VP, like Romney. Instead he made a reckless and dangerous choice. He thought he could capture the vote of the religious nutjobs in this country and that nobody else would notice that she is an idiot.

GregM said...

Thanks dcm. Very interesting...so it looks like if current trends continue, there is a significant chance of a double digit popular vote win for Obama. Apparently the last time that occurred was in 1984.

DaWolf said...

@boulder-liberal

if Huckabee had been picked wouldn't that have given McCain a big and lasting boost as well?

InkStain said...

I doubt there was much McCain could have done to win the election. All the history and demographic trends were against him. In the end, he's still a member of the incumbent party in a bad economic environment, and that right there is enough to sink almost anyone.

The moment Obama looked presidential in 51% of Americans' minds, this election was over.

Becky Sharp said...

Huckabee would have been a much better pick for McCain. The evangelical-right appeal of Palin but with brains and charisma.

Camp McCain got obsessed with the Hillary factor and made an impulsive decision that's going to hurt them

InkStain said...

"Camp McCain got obsessed with the Hillary factor and made an impulsive decision that's going to hurt them"

To steal this line from some random comedian that I forget so I can't credit them:

"McCain tried to replace Hillary Clinton with another woman. Bill's experience should have shown him how much trouble that can get you into."

InkStain said...
This post has been removed by the author.
David said...

"I worry about real joe. can we do something to help him?"

Sorry Becky, a conservative is a pull himself up by his bootstraps kind of guy.

To help him, would be a sin.

boulder-liberal said...

dawolf,

Sure, had he chosen Huckabee, the race would be closer right now. Huckabee's southern charm and folksiness is much more genuine than Palin's. Also, he is knowledgeable in most of the issues, even though I don't agree with many of them.

Given the economic crisis we find ourselves in, I still think Romney would have been a better choice.

OTF said...

Palin still talking about Michigan!

"For the second day in a row, Sarah Palin expressed her dismay at the campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan. This time, though, she brought up the move unprompted (!)

Palin may be only expressing her honest views on the situation, but by continuining to talk about the state she continues to give legs to a negative storyline and ensure additional days of coverage on the worst kind of process-oriented matter at this stage of the race."

Joey said...

John Voigt is being interviewed by CNN at a Sarah Palin rally and is berating CNN for being partisan.

He's a wacko.

GregM said...

Also, if the popular vote win margin were to be more than 10.9% (the 1952 margin) it would be the biggest popular vote win by a non-incumbent since 1932 (FDR).

Real Joe said...

becky sharp said...
I worry about real joe. can we do something to help him?


thanks for the offer becky

i have to go through the pain alone :-(

fred said...
This post has been removed by the author.
fred said...

Palin is failin'. This "real" Palin is showing her to be a real lightweight, even with Fox editing kindly.

Today's trackers show no bounce for cCain from the VP debate, and likely none for BO - but BO moved two of three trackers his way today, and one moved away.

InkStain said...

"John Voigt is being interviewed by CNN at a Sarah Palin rally and is berating CNN for being partisan. "

Berating the evil media has been a winning strategy for Republicans for years. It let Nixon dodge for two whole years, it wasn't until Congress threatened to get involved that anything actually stuck to him.

They are going back to what they know.

Francis said...

real joe, don't worry, you can have a good job in BHO's communist apparat, tracking down and arresting people who refuse to participate in his totalitarian socialized medicine.

fred said...

Attacking the media is safer than bringing up a real issue. It does work...

Of course, using Jon Voight is not the best strategy, he is clearly insane...

esmith said...
This post has been removed by the author.
fred said...

Ya, beeter to bankrupt individuals with John McCain's health than trying to fix it! Nice Francis.

Are you Francis the talking horse?

Real Joe said...

francis said...
real joe, don't worry, you can have a good job in BHO's communist apparat, tracking down and arresting people who refuse to participate in his totalitarian socialized medicine


HA HA

Real Joe said...

Nate

we need an update :-)

Real Joe said...

new update !!!

Francis said...

Fred:


irony



Fred's head

fred said...

Sorry, Francis is a talking mule, not a horse...

http://horsefame.tripod.com/francis.html

fred said...

Real Joe-

Just make one up for us.

Francis said...

also, Francis was a mule.

fred said...

dcm in FL-

Iwould pay money to see Rasmussen daily party ID. They only release a 6 month rolling average.

They update tonight.

fred said...

I hate RCP and think they are biased, but even without the DailyKOS poll, look at this:

Gallup Tracking 10/01 - 10/03 2703 RV 50 42 Obama +8
Rasmussen Tracking 10/01 - 10/03 3000 LV 51 45 Obama +6
Hotline/FD Tracking 10/01 - 10/03 915 LV 48 41 Obama +7
GW/Battleground Tracking 09/29 - 10/02 800 LV 49 46 Obama +3
Marist 09/28 - 09/30 943 LV 49 44 Obama +5
CBS News 09/27 - 09/30 769 LV 50 41 Obama +9
Associated Press/GfK 09/27 - 09/30 808 LV 48 41 Obama +7
ABC News/Wash Post 09/27 - 09/29 916 LV 50 46 Obama +4
Pew Research 09/27 - 09/29 1181 LV 49 43 Obama +6
Ipsos/McClatchy 09/26 - 09/29 1007 RV 48 45 Obama +3
Time 09/26 - 09/29 1133 LV 50 43 Obama +7


Now add Daily KOS woth O +11

fred said...

Is McCain's campaign roadkill yet?

http://www.jimmyshangout.com/images/roadkill.jpg

markymark said...

I was thinking about somethng earlier thats worth bringing up. Almost always the best campaign wins a Presidential election. Now I don't honestly know if thats hindsight, BUT think about it, Kerry ran a horrible campaign, Gore didn't do too badly, but was less focussed and less on message than Bush, Dole never got his campaign out of 2nd gear, GHW Bush never knew how to run against Clinton, Dukakis ran a horrible campaign, to be fair Mondale didn't do too bad for a guy who got steamrollered in the election, Carter was overcome in 80 by his own failures in office, Ford was undone by a debate comment and his pardon of Nixon, but McGovern ran a gaffe ridden campaign in 72. I sort of think that Humphrey did ok himself in 68 but the Democratic Party was so split it couldn't quite come together. (I could go further back, but you get the point!)

I think history will view McCain's campaign as a horrible run unless it improves. And Obama has run a fabulous campaign, right from the announcement through till now. A few quieter moments, but the message hasn't changed, and neither Hillary Clinton or John McCAin has really been able to throw him off his message. That alone has to be admired.

adam said...

is the main 538 page down?

i wonder if nate is starting to think about getting a different hosting service...

fred said...

Good call! Went down this minute too...

realistxxx said...

RCP now has Obama with 264 EV's and there are 8 tossup states left.

NV, OH, VA, FL, NC, MO, IN and CO.

Obama is ahead in 6 of these according to them.

Guess what all of these states that get Obama over 270 (except NV which would be 269) have in common.

lompe said...

The Elon poll from NC:

President: Dem. party: 38,9, Rep. party: 38,8
Senate: Dem. party: 37,0, Rep. party: 34,6

http://www.elon.edu/docs/e-web/elonpoll/100308.pdf

fred said...

McCain going negative after Palin's latest failure...

http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/04/get-ready-here-it-comes/

lompe said...

Fred
Rasmussen has 6 WEEKS party ID average.
(In Sept. they found 4% more dems than reps.)

fred said...

Realistixx-

What is the punchline? All went for Bush in 2004?

fred said...

lompe-

That is what I said. They release a six week rolling average weekly, I want to see the daily number, you know, daily, like each day.

Real Joe said...



McCain & Plain on attack mode ! YAAAAAY !

Palin accuses the Illinois Senator of “palling around with terrorists who would target their own country” with while speaking to GOP donors in Englewood, Colorado Saturday.

Her remarks come in response to a New York Times story on Obama’s relationship with former Weather Underground member Bill Ayers.

McCain campaign and RNC dustribute her words by email to reporters.

“There’s been a lot of interest in what I read lately. Well, I was reading my copy of today’s New York Times and I was really interested to read about Barack’s friends from Chicago. Turns out, one of his earliest supporters is a man who, according to The New York Times was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, ‘launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol.’ These are the same guys who think patriotism is paying higher taxes. This is not a man who sees America as you and I do - as the greatest force for good in the world. This is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country. This, ladies and gentlemen, has nothing to do with the kind of change anyone can believe in - not my kids and not your kids. The only man who can take on Washington is John McCain.”

Jonny said...

Man, I really don't think Palin's the one they should stick out there to go negative. I understand that maybe McCain's going to try and take the high road, but she just sounds ridiculous lobbing Ayers and thinking anyone is going to take her seriously. What a mismanaged campaign.

Homespun1 said...

jonny et al.,

I think this is Joe taking some creative license an earlier poster gave him, to create his own news.

bigdayqueen said...

Biden Cancels Events Due To Family Illness

bigdayqueen said...

From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro:

(WILMINGTON, DEL.) - Joe Biden has cancelled events planned in Washington, DC and Virginia tomorrow due to illness in the family, according to his press secretary.

"The campaign has cancelled Sen. Biden's schedule today and tomorrow because of a serious illness in Jill Biden's family. Hospice has advised the Bidens to remain close by, and we appreciate everyone's respect for the family's privacy,” said David Wade.

Biden planned was scheduled to speak at a National Human Rights Campaign dinner tonight in Washington, D.C. The campaign also scrapped rallies in Richmond and Roanoke, Virginia on Sunday.
Read More Posts In Joe Biden

Chuck said...

Has anyone besides me notice Sean Hannity is losing it? He foams at the mouth when talking about Obama. Keeps mentioning Wright and Ayers. The economy is off the table with Sean. Its all about Ayers and not much else. The election can't come soon enough.

Brennan said...

Hi Nate,

Why don't you have more on polls that include Barr/Nader?

Sincerely,
Brennan

Michael said...

Basically Geoff is dropping random bombs that he can't back up with actual verifiable facts.

Until those facts appear, consider him a troll and ignore as appropriate.

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平平 said...

^^ very nice

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