It's been a confusing day of polling -- one of those where I'm happy to have a computer handy to do my dirty work for me.
The trend over the past 7-10 days remains slightly toward McCain. It is difficult to pinpoint, however, just where the movement started. If I take the average of my daily point estimates from Thursday through Sunday -- since the final presidential debate was concluded -- I show Obama at a +6.0. That compares with a +6.6 in the ten days that proceeded the debate. However, looking at things even more precisely, it appears that the movement may have preceded the debate by a day or two, and that the debate itself was something of a wash.
It is also not clear whether Colin Powell's endorsement has had any effect. Obama gained ground in four of the seven national trackers today, lost ground in two, and the last one was a push (this does not include the brand new ABC/WaPo tracker, which debuted today).
The central point is this: if McCain has gained ground -- and most likely he has -- then what he's done is reset the race to roughly where it was two weeks ago, when Obama also had roughly a 6-point national lead. Except, the two positions aren't entirely equal, since two weeks have run off McCain's clock. Roughly speaking -- and accounting for his inferior position in the electoral college -- McCain needs to gain about half a point per day every day between now and November 4 to become a favorite in the electoral college. That is not an easy task; from the nadir of Obama's numbers, which we put at 9/12, to his peak, which we put at 10/11, Obama was gaining about a quarter of a point per day on average. That is, by the standards of a presidential campaign, very rapid movement. But McCain needs to get those numbers down about twice as quickly as Obama got them up, and he does not have any debates or other major public events to assist him.
McCain also has significant problems with his electoral map, particularly in Virginia and Colorado, which continue to project about a point or so ahead of Obama's national numbers. While McCain appears to have stopped the bleeding in Florida and perhaps Ohio, that is not the case in Missouri, Nevada, and North Carolina, which have drifted closer to the national averages.
If McCain were to make a kamikaze play for Pennsylvania -- as John King seems to imply -- while conceding Colorado, Iowa and New Mexico, this wouldn't seem to make his task much easier. The Kerry states less PA, but plus CO, IA, and NM equal 252 electoral votes, leaving Obama just 18 votes short. Obama could pick up those votes in one fell swoop by winning Florida or Ohio -- or, more plausibly, by winning Virginia plus any one of North Carolina, Missouri, Indiana or Nevada.
It is unlikely that McCain can accomplish this all of this organically, by winning garden-variety news cycles or even by claiming the lion's share of undecideds. Rather, he likely needs some kind of unknown, external contingency to place himself back in the thick of the race.
10.20.2008
Today's Polls, 10/20
by Nate Silver @ 7:52 PM...see also colorado, florida, georgia, minnesota, missouri, new hampshire, north carolina, ohio, oregon, pennsylvania, today's polls, virginia, wisconsin
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)

704 comments
first
Nate,
What is going on in the scenario analysis? There is a bug.
McCain loses OH 7161 times (wins 4 of those times)
McCain loses OH and FL 7160 times (wins 0 of those times)
McCain losing OH and FL MUST be a subset of McCain losing OH. 7161 is > 7160, but only by one and yet McCain wins 4 of 7161 and 0 of 7160. This seems to be a consistent problem with these two scenarios in particular.
Can you advise what could be causing this, because it scares me re the integrity of the rest of the model.
Much Thanks!
I'm still worried and will not breathe easily until after the election.
But still, I just don't see how McCain can win it, short of complete and utter fraud, in which case you can count on me rioting in the streets along with half of America.
Who is GQR and are they any good at all?
GA at M+2? Bring it on!
heh, McCain/Palin campaign says "we don't allow Daily Kos diarists on board either" in addition to lot allowing Joe Klein or Maureen Dowd to fly with them. So, that would explain 538's lack of access to campaign offices.
It would take a maverick to do something as mavericky as ceding Colorado. And if I know one thing about McCain, he's a maverick.
Nate,
Can you PLEASE put in a zoomed-in version of the SuperTracker graph, maybe starting with Aug. It's too hard to tell what the readings were last week, 2 weeks ago, etc.
The statement that there aren't any game-changing events left is kind of wrong, there's still that one night where Obama did the half-hour ad buy on all the major networks.
An UPCOMING Obama LANDSLIDE is EXCELLENT NEWS!!! .............. for JOHN MCCAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
adub said...
The statement that there aren't any game-changing events left is kind of wrong, there's still that one night where Obama did the half-hour ad buy on all the major networks.
2 days
Let's hope Rays needs at least 6 games to win... that way a lot of FL will be watching Obama's informecial on FOX...
I think a little tightening is good for Obama's volunteers, like one of the earlier posts today talked about. They know they can't stop working yet.
@MsMike said...
> Erik: Thanks for the info on vote protection. Very helpful. I will be wathing for more.
OK, the report on deceptive electronic practices is here: http://votingintegrity.org/pdf/edeceptive_report.pdf Non electronic deceptive elections practices are still a danger, but are for the most part understood in the elections community. This report explores some deceptive practices specifically using electronic (primarily internet) means. Deceptive practices are attempts to affect voter registration, turnout, or vote choice by means of deception. I am an author on this report, which was produced by the National Committee for Voting Integrity a project of the highly esteemed Electronic Privacy Information Center.
The Voter Suppression Wiki has a list of list of election protection initiatives and a nice incident tracker page that lists prominent suppression incidents in an organized way.
There is also a Twitter VoteReport Project that looks promising.
The Verified Voting Foundation has a wealth of information on elections technology. This is not directly related to elections incidents, but may be helpful if you are trying to understand what kinds of known problems exist with different voting systems.
To reiterate my previous message, if you personally experience what you consider to be a voting incident you think might be worthy of follow-up or investigation, I recommend you call 866-our-vote or visit voteprotect.org.
In places that permit early voting, you can take stress off of what will in many places be an overburdened elections system by voting early.
Take a minute to visit your county's elections web site (assuming it has one), especially if you're new to the county, and most especially if you're new to the state. Rules vary. In some places, if you go to the wrong polling place, you can vote provisional, but in some places, it's basically impossible to vote in the wrong polling place. Worst of all are places where you can vote provisionally in the polling place, but unless you visit the county elections department in person before the elections results are finalized, your provisional ballot gets thrown out. It's important to know the rules.
If you are voting in person on election day, try to vote early if possible. Mid-day is often a quiet time. The county elections web site may have recommendations. Employers by law have to give you "adequate" time off from work to vote. (I'm not a lawyer and not an expert on this particular law, but if an employer will not reasonably accommodate your voting, then I recommend you call 866-our-vote right now.) Bring ID with you to the polling place regardless of the rules, just in case.
If you experience something bad (an "incident,") try to be a good reporter. Make notes in writing, if you can. Note the names of people you talk to and the time you talked to them. If it's relevant, note precinct numbers, brand names, model numbers and serial numbers. Generally and for very good reasons you can't take pictures inside a polling place, but if you have a camera or camera phone, take pictures outside the poling place and where permitted that might be helpful later. (Long lines, illegal behavior, etc.) If you don't have anything to write with, call yourself on your cell phone and leave yourself a voicemail message. This information can be valuable real time in getting injunctions, and better yet helping elections staff do a better job before an injunction even becomes necessary. Be firm but polite. More elections incidents are caused by bad information than by malice, and even in the case of malice, being hostile probably won't help you gather valuable information.
Do not, of course, forget to vote. If you fall ill or break your leg or something, you can still vote. Have a friend drive you. (Or if none of your friends have cars, contact your campaign to see if the GOTV people can help.) Many places offer curbside voting for handicapped voters, and it is now common to establish a temporary handicapped parking space in front of polling places. Rules vary, but I doubt many places would deny you assistance if you say you need it. I know a poll watcher in South Africa. One of the voters was an elderly, arthritic man who walked four hours one way on a very hot day to get to the polls. Then he waited in line several more hours. Then he walked home again. Oh, and he was carrying his handicapped wife on his back. If they voted, you can get your a** to the polls. Hear? Better yet, help somebody else who might not vote get to the polls.
Finally, as you enjoy the election night drama at an election party or quietly at home, give a moment's thanks to the election workers and election protection volunteers, whose work is not finished on election day. They will be toiling through the night and the next day. Many of them will not sleep for 30 or 40 hours straight, only to grab a brief rest and begin again. All for generally low pay or no pay at all, in the service of our precious democracy.
I agree with stevie314159 but what I'd really like to see is a a spreadsheet of the results that we can download and make whatever graphs we want.
Honestly.
I don't see the race going anywhere for McCain. I think he's stuck.
He's either slowly gaining, standing still, going up and down (slowly) or Obama is gaining slowly.
He may of stopped the bleeding (somewhat in Ohio and Fla, as you mentioned), but now he's sprining leaks in VA, NC, Missouri and Indiana.
McCain is just suffering 1000 cuts, to a slow death, while time is running out.
The sands of time are shifting against McCain.
Ultimately, I think Obama's overwhelming money advantage, will keep this an 7-10pt popular vote outcome!
"But still, I just don't see how McCain can win it, short of complete and utter fraud, in which case you can count on me rioting in the streets along with half of America."
Understatement.
GA M+2???? If Obama pulls off GA I will eat my shirt.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Nate, but didn't you predict a tightening in the race the closer we got to election day? I am so stressed. Can't wait till it's over. AND it is still at 92% chance that Obama wins - right? right? right?
Thanx for maintaining this awesome website. I am eagerly anticipating whats going on in Indianna. according to the previous thread, there is rumour that the Selzer poll is delayed to include more days because the results are not Pro McCain(pro america!), and PPP hints that indiana will be a shocker. Egads... I don't like how the win percentage has gone up for McCain. I made a bet with a friend of mine(we cook each other diner if we lose), that Obama will get +5% on the popular vote.
The McCain camp won't pull out of CO. They are just trying to come up with victory scenarios that do not depend upon winning CO.
The fact that these scenarios require flipping PA (consistent 10+ point lead for Obama) points to the difficulty of the situation for McCain.
Even beyond PA, these scenarios assume that MO, VA, and NV will all come back into the fold... not at all a sure thing.
I'm getting paranoid that maybe McCain knows something that all of the pollsters don't about PA. The strategy doesn't make any sense otherwise.
I thought those plots had changed quite a while before you put up your blog post !!! I commented on this yesterday and it is even more striking today -- the mode of the 10,000 simulations histogram is the highest peak every -- very interesting, is this a sign that the model "knows" that there is not much time left and there is less and less randomness to the simulations ?
And again, thanks for your great work !
Sheila
zzyzx said...
I'm getting paranoid that maybe McCain knows something that all of the pollsters don't about PA. The strategy doesn't make any sense otherwise.
LOL
My worry is that the race becomes close enough for republicans to somehow steal it.
I fear problems at the polls, and that includes every dirty trick you can think of, as well as downright cooking the books.
"Rather, he likely needs some kind of unknown, external contingency to place himself back in the thick of the race."
Its OVER
McCain will not will not win.
He has to defend
VA (already gone)
FL
NC
OH
MO
NV
All the above are currently blue
He ALSO has to:
While winning PA which has like a 10 point lead for obama or CO, which has like a 7 point lead.
People are only coming to see exactly how much Obama is going to win by.
Pennsylvania = the Republicans´ Florida/Ohio
McCain might hope to win the other Bush states like Kerry won Wisconsin, and Gore won Oregon in 2000, on the way, to so say.
@Real Joe
2 days what?
To the 538 faithful at large:
Could someone kindly explain to me how individual state win% is calculated? Given a poll result and a MoE, how does one convert to win probability?
Thanks,
Ziggy
October 20 Poll Update
Obama 340, McCain 198
From http://election-projection.net
"The race has begun to tighten slightly. This can be seen in the narrowing of the national polls, as well as a slight shift in the expected electoral vote totals. So far, the shift has occurred only in states that would give Obama "extra" electoral votes, beyond the 270 he needs to win, so it has not affected the probability of Obama or McCain winning the election. If however McCain can start chipping away at ME, WA, CO, NM, NH, MN, IA, WI or PA while holding or improving his support in the other battleground states, he can then begin to increase his chance of winning. Nonetheless, Obama currently holds a commanding lead, and McCain has very little time left to get back in the race."
What a confusing set of polls. Some days I am glad it is not my job to make sense of it all. Maybe by later in the week a new pattern will emerge. I stand by my prediction that it will be 51-46.5 with Obama getting around 325 to 345 electoral votes
Nate, can you comment on whether this tightening is roughly what you'd expect to see this close to election day, or whether it's earlier/more severe?
There's been a lot of talk about OH and FL lately, when the bottom line this time around is that McCain needs something MAJOR to knock loose CO and VA, or PA. No wonder Davis has signaled that they're about to take the wraps off Wright. Not sure why it's been Ayers and not Rezko either. Rezko would have a lot more traction with undecideds, since there is actually *something* to the story (just poor judgment, but that's still something.)
Nate, I'd like to put a vote in for more features like pollster.com. Hope you will have time to add those features after the election and before baseball season comes around
Andrew Sullivan's done a series of articles about the Odd Lies of Sarah Palin. I'm hoping his next one is "I hate robocalls!!" "Ooops, I did a robocall!!"
What about the fact that John McCain is hoarding most of his 85 million to the very end?
There has to be some ceiling where more money doesn't do you much good, so the fact that Obama can outspend McCain might not matter. But in a total racket chamber of campaign messages like the grand finale of a fireworks display, who wins? What could John McCain be planning to do with the 50 million he's saved for the last two weeks of the campaign?
Nate!
You should take Erik Nilsson's post ane make it a new THREAD!!!!
No matter how people will vote a fair election is important. People need to know their rights and where to turn when their rights are abused.
The latest FL and OH's are discouraging. I don't think one needs a stat program to predict that things are going to be close... so it all comes down to GOTV.
mike said...
@Real Joe
2 days what?
Obama has brought 2 days of network air time
a day before the election & end of this month
Nate,
What is going on in the scenario analysis? There is a bug.
McCain loses OH 7161 times (wins 4 of those times)
McCain loses OH and FL 7160 times (wins 0 of those times)
McCain losing OH and FL MUST be a subset of McCain losing OH. 7161 is > 7160, but only by one and yet McCain wins 4 of 7161 and 0 of 7160. This seems to be a consistent problem with these two scenarios in particular.
Can you advise what could be causing this, because it scares me re the integrity of the rest of the model.
Much Thanks!
Here's another one:
Obama wins VA when losing OH 2058 of 2838
Obama wins FL when losing OH 1061 of 2839
Luke C,
yes the numbers look good, but it assuredly NOT OVER until those people make their way down to their polling locations and cast their vote!
All the polls in the world can't vote ONCE, it takes a massive GOTV effort.
Saying it's over? Misleading.
I am trying to figure what in the last week would give McCain a boost. It appears to me his campaign is a train wreck. He is cash strapped and has a tactic of painting Obama a communist. That might have been potent...in 1955. I guess racism and fear always has it's customers...
Obama will win(4%+/300+ EV's)
@Boring Blue Maryland:
You're right, based on historical tightening, we'd expect only (let's see... 5.9%-4.8% / 15 days) = less than 1/10th% per day. At that rate, the projection should be static.
It's hard to say, but it looks like it's tightening a little faster than that.
Nate,
Does this recent dip reflect naturally expected race tightening or did it happen too soon/is too much?
Also, going the other way, did you switch to likely voters during this period since Obama's apex, making the drop a little more than we see?
This Georgia boy is jumping up and down here! 2 pts!
From GQR's reports to the Lord's ears! Please.
@Real Joe
You have a link that details that second day? All I've ever heard anyone talk about was the 10/29 buy.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/20/131628/92/254/636406
This is a diary about polling lessons from 2004 and comparison to 2004 results. Lets examine the 04 pollster performances in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Missouri, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico.
I have taken all polls listed in the 2004 RCP archives from each state from Oct 14th to Nov 1st. Absence of a symbol denotes margins favorable to W, (-) to Kerry
CONCLUSIONS
Bush's margin of victory on the Eastern seaboard was largely underestimated, particularly in FL and NC, marginally underestimated in the Midwest and marginally overestimated in the Southwest particularly in NV.
STATE OF THE RACE
1. Assuming similar deviations in these states Obama's numbers suggest he is slightly ahead in VA, slightly behind in NC and tied in FL.
2. He appears to be slightly behind in MO and tied in OH.
3. He appears to have established leads in CO, NM and NV. This is Obama's firewall.
The worst pollster in these states was GALLUP which wildly overestimated Kerry's performance. The best ones are Mason-Dixon (NBC news in 08) and Rasmussen (polling for FOX news, or without a sponsor). Survey USA with Strategic Vision were the next most reliable pollsters in 2004.
Florida
2004 Poll
ARG | 10/30-11/1
-2
Zogby | 10/29-11/1
0
FOX News | 10/30-31
-5
SurveyUSA | 10/29-31
1
Insdr Adv | 10/29-31
0
Quinnipiac | 10/27-31
8
CNN/USAT/Gallup | 10/28-30*
-3
Rasmussen | 10/25-31
3
Mason-Dixon | 10/27-29
4
Rasmussen | 10/27
5
Strategic Vision (R) | 10/25-27
4
Fla Poll/NYT Rgnl | 10/23-27
-1
Quinnipiac | 10/22-10/26
3
LA Times | 10/22-10/26
8
ARG | 10/23-10/25
-3
Survey USA | 10/22-24
-2
CNN/USAT/Gallup | 10/21-24
8
Rasmussen | 10/20-10/26
0
Strategic Vision (R) | 10/22-24
2
SPT/Miami Herald| 10/19-21
0
Research 2000 | 10/18-10/21
-1
Strategic Vision (R) | 10/18-20
1
Quinnipiac | 10/15-10/19
1
SurveyUSA | 10/15-10/17
-1
Mason-Dixon | 10/14-10/17
3
FLORIDA Average of polls +1.32; Actual result +5
Best pollsters
Mason-Dixon (-1)
Rasmussen (0)
Worst pollsters
CNN/Gallup (-8)
Fox News/Opinion Dynamics (-10)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Virginia
2004 Poll
SurveyUSA | 10/27-29
4
Times Dispatch | 10/20-26
9
Mason-Dixon | 10/22-10/25
6
SurveyUSA | 10/16-10/18
4
VIRGINIA Average of polls 5.75; Actual result 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
North Carolina
2004 Poll
SurveyUSA | 10/29-31
8
Research 2000 | 10/25-10/27
6
Mason-Dixon | 10/25-10/26
9
SurveyUSA | 10/22-10/24
10
JLF/Tel Opn Res | 10/18-20
8
Mason-Dixon | 10/18-10/19
8
SurveyUSA | 10/15-10/17
3
North Carolina Average of polls 7.43; Actual result 12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ohio
2004 Poll
Zogby | 10/29-11/1
6
FOX News | 10/30-31
3
SurveyUSA | 10/29-31
2
Strategic Vision (R) | 10/29-31
2
CNN/USAT/Gallup | 10/28-31
-4
Ohio Poll/UofC | 10/27-31
0.9
Mason-Dixon | 10/27-29
2
Rasmussen | 10/25-10/31
4
Clev. Plain Dealer | 10/26-28
3
Strategic Vision (R) | 10/25-27
1
Colmbus Dispatch* | 10/20-29
0
Survey USA| 10/23-10/25
-3
ARG | 10/23-10/25
-2
LA Times | 10/22-10/26
-6
Strategic Vision (R) | 10/22-24
2
Rasmussen | 10/20-10/26
4
Scripps | 10/17-10/21
-4
Gallup | 10/17-10/20
-1
FOX News | 10/17-10/18
5
SurveyUSA | 10/16-10/18
-2
Mason-Dixon | 10/15-10/18
1
ABC News | 10/14-10/17
-3
Rasmussen | 10/12-10/18
0
OHIO Average of polls 0.47; Actual Result 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Missouri
2004 Poll
SurveyUSA| 10/29-31
5
Mason-Dixon | 10/27-29
5
KC Star | 10/22-26
4
SurveyUSA| 10/23-10/25
7
Research 2000 | 10/22-10/24
3
Rasmussen | 10/7-10/20
5
SurveyUSA| 10/16-10/18
6
Mason-Dixon | 10/15-10/18
5
MISSOURI Average of polls 5; Actual result 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevada
2004 Poll
SurveyUSA | 10/30-11/1
8
Zogby | 10/29-11/1
5
SurveyUSA | 10/28-29
0
Mason-Dixon | 10/27-29
6
Rasmussen | 10/23
2
Research 2000 | 10/19-10/21
2
Las Vegas Sun | 10/16-10/19
4
SurveyUSA | 10/16-10/18
7
Mason-Dixon | 10/15-10/18
10
NEVADA Average of polls 4.89; Actual result 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Mexico
2004 Poll
Zogby | 10/29-11/1
-3
ARG | 10/27-10/30
-1
Mason-Dixon | 10/27-29
4
Albq Jrnl | 10/26-29
3
Rasmussen | 10/26
4
ARG | 10/16-10/18
-2
Mason-Dixon | 10/15-10/18
5
NEW MEXICO Average of polls 1.49; Actual Result 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colorado
2004 Poll
Survey USA | 10/30-11/1
3
Zogby | 10/29-11/1
2
Survey USA | 10/28-30
6
Mason-Dixon | 10/27-29
7
Rocky Mtn News | 10/25-27
9
Survey USA | 10/18-10/20
7
Rasmussen | 10/18
5
Ciruli Assoc | 10/15-10/19
6
CNN/USAT/Gallup | 10/14-17
6
Mason-Dixon | 10/14-10/16
6
COLORADO Average of polls 5.7; Actual result 5
I think the fact that McCain is gaining means he's outperforming Nate's model. This means he's doing better then the predicted tightening.
Let the panicking begin....
The PA strategy is simple---I don't think McCain can win without flipping PA. And never underestimate the Rep. When it comes to sleaze they are the best they will do anything to win.This campaign is going to be very ugly the last two weeks.
I'm actually hoping that the series will NOT go to 6 games. I don't want a lot of baseball fans in Tampa getting pissed off at having to wait 15 minutes for the game to start, and blame Obama....
The thing that is giving me indigestion right now is that no one seems to be able to point to some concrete reason why McCain is creeping back in the polls, other than just the generic explanation of gravitational pull. When we last left our heroes, Obama was whumping McCain's ass around the country in light of the economic concerns.
I can't believe that the "Joe the Plumber"/"spreading the wealth" meme is working THAT well--at least, that it is the main thing going on.
CNN's poll suggested that the "same as Bush" tactic was losing force, but (a) that seems more a symptom than a cause to me and (b) why would that be the case, all of a sudden? Again, Obama won all the debates, and other than McCain's little quip about "you should have run against him 4 years ago," I just don't see anything that leveraged that point.
Socialism/spreading the wealth??? Come on, are the plumbers and other blue-collar workers of this country THAT dumb that they'd get twisted in a bunch over the idea that the wealthy may get stuck with a bigger share of the costs of government?? I don't buy it.
So, I hate to say it, but--if not the textbook "Bradley Effect"--I think it is a conceptual cousin going on. I think there is some sort of "coming home" as the negative ads are freaking out some racially-inclined voters about Obama. I don't think that the election day results will differ greatly from the last polls, but I think they will differ significantly from the polls about a week ago.
Hopefully, not enough to change the outcome. But I have to admit I'm losing sleep.
Unless someone can suggest a better, less heinous, explanation that I can hang my hat on.
So now here's the polling evidence that illustrates the long-expected tightening of the presidential race. The adjusted trendline target for McCain (+0.5/day) versus what Obama already accomplished in September (+0.25/day) shows us how lonnnnng McCain's odds have become.
Still no Indiana polls! I think we'll stay red, but not by 7 points, goodness no. Between 3 & 4, say.
Rasmussen polls are showing some really good trends for Obama as well... Colorado still strong, NC much stronger, Virginia running away. The Florida result is interesting - given Ras & its standard 1-2 point Red bent, the state is a messy, purple wash.
Great update! I agree with some other posters though that the model seems to be doing some quirky calculations right now.
Still, as our favorite senator might say... the fundamentals of this website are strong.
I am supremely confident Obama will win. McCain's campaign is so desperate. Now they have discarded the Bill Ayers terrorist angle and going with the Obama is a socialist angle. Its laughable. I live in Nevada and many people who did not vote in 2004 are all fired up to vote for Obama in '08.
I have a question about the IBD/TIPP poll internals - I was looking at today's (10/20) numbers, and they have the age group of 18-24 to be tied at 46% and prior days in the tracking show a slight McCain lead - how can that be accurate when most other internals I've seen for that age group consistently shows 60%+ for Obama?
i don't think McCain can win PA
McCain can still win OH
P: "What about the fact that John McCain is hoarding most of his 85 million to the very end?
There has to be some ceiling where more money doesn't do you much good, so the fact that Obama can outspend McCain might not matter. But in a total racket chamber of campaign messages like the grand finale of a fireworks display, who wins? What could John McCain be planning to do with the 50 million he's saved for the last two weeks of the campaign?"
Only problem with this is that it isn't true. McCain does not have $50 million bucks. Probably more like $20 million.
@Shawna:
State's win% is based on the 10,000 simulations -- number of simulations won divided by 10k.
For an individual state, this is determined by randomness and the polls' combined margin of error. Then, it's tied in with projected shifts in other "related" states, as well as the national popular vote.
So how many days before election day to Virginia & Colorado get declared 100%?
Zzyzx, don't forget that McCain's polling also shows him a lot closer in IA than everyone else.
I think that he's trying to pull OH and FL back into the R column this week, soften PA, then he'll have to go on the offensive hard in VA/NC, CO, and PA over the next two weeks. And cross his fingers that nothing else springs a leak. That's basically the gameplan he's left with right there.
Barring staging another 9/11, I'm pretty excited here in Cuyahoga county.
I'm sure that I'll be one of the first rounded-up and put into an X-14 camp if there are any shananigans on election day. I, for one, will be observing My local polling station until closing time.
Remember: Survey USA was dead-on in almost EVERY SINGLE primary race~They will be the ones to watch! Their techniques are nearly flawless.
~Special advocate for the Trees...
robert said...
I think the fact that McCain is gaining means he's outperforming Nate's model. This means he's doing better then the predicted tightening.
Let the panicking begin....
LOL
The national polls have settled on a mid-single-digit lead for Obama. The state polls have Obama with consistent leads in CO & VA, and tight races in MO, NC, FL, OH, and ND. NM, IA, and all of the Kerry states aren't even close. The election is virtually over, barring a very major event. If the race has tightened, it has tightened into a solid and commanding Obama lead rather than an out-and-out blowout. It's a huge stretch to suggest that McCain has a plausible route to victory now, barring a major change of events. Nate's model is over-reacting to minor changes, as usual, but the underlying electoral picture is fairly clear.
These polls are great news!!! For Barack Obama!!!
Wow, look how BLUE that map is!
On this day, October 20th, in 2004, George Bush led John Kerry 48.7% to 45.2%.
For final results, please see Presidential Inauguration, January 2005
John Kerry never led in any major tracking poll between now and election day
(43) days since the Fundamental Shift towards McCain/Palin as described by PeteKent
You 'Cons should be getting nervous!
and of course...
Congratulations to President-Elect Barack HUSSEIN Obama Jr.
(emphasis on "hussein" meant to spite race-mongering trolls who tried to use it politically)
TROLLS MIA:
Oz Johnny
Midpoint Man
Greg
DarienCrow
Jack Black
CTPEM
CTSTW
mike said...
@Real Joe
You have a link that details that second day? All I've ever heard anyone talk about was the 10/29 buy.
i don't have a link
shawna/ziggy,
Nate runs 10,000 simulations. The state win percentage is based directly off that. Exactly how Nate determines whether Obama or McCain wins a particular state in a particular scenario has never really been explained.
The McCain increase lines up perfectly with their "palling around with terrorists" attack, which has done an exceptional job of riling up the extreme right.
Since likely voter models include enthusiasm in their calculations, this obviously did a good job of pushing a bunch of existing McCain supporters into the "likely voter" category.
Of course, this "terrorist" line of attack has repulsed people in the middle or left, making them increasingly opposed to McCain. However, most of these Obama supporters were already riled up and thus already counted as likely voters (at least on the "enthusiasm" measure).
Therefore, even though both sides are energized by the attacks (likely driving up turnout on both sides to some degree), the change is less detectable on the side that was already enthusiastic.
My interpretation: McCain's movement is most likely 75% polling artifact and 25% genuine movement ... and at worst, it's a 50-50 split. Compare the movement of registered voters in Gallup -- it's hardly moved compared to the two LV models, and the "traditional" LV model (which is even more biased toward McCain because it excludes most -- all? -- new voters) shows this movement most of all because they make up a larger portion of the sample.
Bottom line: This movement is real, but it's a lot smaller than it looks right now. (And no likely voter model -- not one -- has any way to take account of the turnout tidal wave that is sweeping over the electorate, which is why I think the RV models will probably be closest to the real outcome.)
irwinm,
Yes that IBD/TIPP internal is perplexing. There must be a sampling error with that age group, maybe cell phone related.
Also new ABC/WaPo tracking poll includes cell phones! I think that explains the 53% !!!
If PA is too close to class it's going to be a long night...
So after telling everyone to panic I must confess that I believe that the movements we're seeing are all well withing the margin of error.
It's way more then a stretch to say McCain is gaining. I think the only thing that can be said is that Obama has plateaued.
Check out this article on Nate.
I'm taking wagers on Nate being Time's Person of the Year. Maybe co- with Obama. Anyone?
No worry about pushing back the WS for the Obama broadcast. the Phillies win in 5. :-)
For those of you who missed an earlier post of mine (before the insane adolescent sockpuppet took over), the Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) Bd of Elections told me that yesterday was a madhouse of early voting. Churches brought huge busloads of voters to the polls, numerous buses, packed with people.
@NC_voter
If you jinxed this site by invoking those names, I'll never forgive you.
I think this is normal tightening, but a bit stronger as the Obama apex was reached with the help of a panicky McCain and a imminent-crisis financial news tidal wave. So long as McCain is less panicky and the financial crisis is not looking like an imminent train wreck (as opposed to a chronic derailment), I think we will see this enhanced tightening continue.
did you guys see the new CBS poll
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Oct08c-final.pdf
McCain had $47 million at the start of October. He spent $7 million the first week of October. He spent $10 million the second week of October. I can only guess he spent $10 million the third week. That leaves him with $20 million for the last two weeks.
Real Joe, must you make us jump to the link?
CBS
Obama-Biden 54%
McCain-Palin 41%
Undecided 3
John Kerry never led in any major tracking poll between now and election day back in 2004.
Game over, GOPigs
Why is McCain advertising on this site?
Seriously!?!?!?
Its a site that is targeted at political junkies. Everybody on here pays a lot of attention to the campaign. Too much, probably. There is no way he is going to get any votes by running banner ads on sites like this one. He should be using his dollars on chasing low info voters. Not that I care. I'm an Obama supporter all the way.
I'm just curious. I've never met an undecided political junkie in my life.
Thank you, Real Joe. That sure is great news.....oh fuhgetaboutit!
I now officially have Georgia on my mind.
What about North Dakota?
news--but these buses could all be McCain voters no?
What could the McCain campaign possibly be seeing in their internal numbers that has them betting all their chips on poaching PA AND running the board on remaining tossups?
It seems like a really far-flung Hail Mary.
Mc/GOP stash of cash probably won't mean much at this point. Obama's already bought up most available ad time, well, pretty much everywhere. Granted, stations have ad purchases that can be bumped, but only by paying a premium for the time. Mc will have to pay more and get less.
McCain has maxed out what he can ask for in donation as he's getting 50% of his money from us tax payers. That said he can easily avoid that by starting 527's but so far they have not materialized to the extend I was expecting
A. Repug/indies are coming home to roost. 2% halflife
B. 85M at the beginning of Sept. Has spent 45M in Sept. leaving 40M for 5 weeks of Oct. Probably down to 15-20M at this point, maybe lower.
C. I still say 5%+ popular.
kennyb, he had $84 million on hand to begin with.
I just want to remind people that those cowardly fucks who were here gloating in early september ("it's over!" "you libs should be getting real nervous around now!") are now no where in sight.
To lose the election, Obama would have to lose VA, CO, MO and NC.
He's already won.
15 days left.
each day that goes by -- even if mccain makes slight gains -- is devastating to him.
Thanks Real Joe! You have become very helpful.
CBS:
O 54
M-41
Follow Real Joes link, worth the read!
Does anybody know what it takes to be considered a "landslide" or a "mandate"?
All I know about "mandates" is that W.'s supporters used it totally incorrectly.
===
Also, I'm still hopeful for a landslide in Obama's favor because of one thing: Unlikely Voters.
I wonder how closely the trend towards McCain reflects the rebound in the market?
Interesting find on the CBS poll, Joe. Tiny sample size, and Dems 38% to Reps 27% is probably a little high of a party ID margin. Still, it's not good news for McCain. Palin's favorability has BOMBED.
I'm getting paranoid that maybe McCain knows something that all of the pollsters don't about PA. The strategy doesn't make any sense otherwise.
The way campaigns figure out their strategy is by employing pollsters of their own. There's no way that a pollster within a campaign is any more accurate than a pollster outside a campaign.
Sorry, uh-uh, not here in Cuyahoga County...nope, probably all Americans of African descent...My guess would be from the confines of East Cleveland.
~Special advocate for the Trees...
lat--no way. The buses were all very enthusiastic AA voters. Way to GOTV.
I guess they were all very excited. It would have been too much fun to have been on one of those buses!!
bry:
Over 50% of the popular vote is considered a mandate.
over 375 EVs is considered a landslide.
You people are reading too much into the slight trend toward McCain. There are several different dynamics at work here. One is the tendency for those who intended to vote for "the other" candidate, or declared themselved undecided, to retreat back to their underlying ID. My guess is that more undecideds are "really" Republicans who will have a tendency to go home. It has little to do with specific issues or campaign themes. The greater the edge there is for the leading candidate, the greater the number of those who "belong" to the opposing candiate who have not been declaring for him. the bigger the lead, the greater the slide back.
But even if we end up with identical "defection" rates, Obama wins, and I don't think the defeection rates will fully equalize this year.
Since the rain has ended here I think I'll try to get my exercise in and finish these thoughts later.
Duh, my bad. Public financing.
When you say:
Rather, McCain likely needs some kind of unknown, external contingency to place himself back in the thick of the race.
Do you mean he needs to cheat? I wouldn't put it past them to do so.
Nate's model is over-reacting to minor changes, as usual, but the underlying electoral picture is fairly clear.
Huh? Obama's win percent goes from 94% to 92.5% and that's overreacting? Seems like the model is pretty clearly saying that not much has changed.
Joe said...
What could the McCain campaign possibly be seeing in their internal numbers that has them betting all their chips on poaching PA AND running the board on remaining tossups?
It seems like a really far-flung Hail Mary.
Joe,
Do you have a better idea? You think they should just pull out and go home?
Obama needs to go on OFFENCE!! I work from home and have an eye on the tube all day long... all I see today is defend against "Joe, Socialism, ACORN etc" It's got him off balance.
BRAND MCCAIN A "BORROW AND SPEND" CONSERVATIVE. They both have plans for spending but McCain irresposibly borrows all his spending from China and other countries that will buy our debt.
Obama can paint himself as the Fiscal Steady Hand (just like in the Wall St meltdown) and say he pays as he goes so that we invest in America without going into hock.
Selling American debt to China is less palatable then raising tax on those who have done the best over 2decades... and who would only pay what they paid in the 90's. A SMALL INCREASE so we can invest in America.
Come up with anything! Call McCain anything... just get him to respond to consistent charges. Call him a reckless, erratic spender... anything!
Prediction - PA will be blanketed with "bitter-gate and Wright" for 14 days.
Nate is right, will do him no good to win PA anyway.
Paul
Pa is not in play. He has a much better chance of flipping the NE states than winning here. I'm privy to some numbers, and they're the GOPs worst nightmare.
The only effective mechanism McCain has in Pa is coordinated sign stealing.
Real Joe said...
zzyzx said...
I'm getting paranoid that maybe McCain knows something that all of the pollsters don't about PA. The strategy doesn't make any sense otherwise.
LOL
_______________________
I'm getting paranoid that maybe we didn't convert Real Joe after all. Maybe he knows something 'bout PA and isn't telling us.
liforce--
Glad to have yet another Clevelander on board!! Where will you be observing the polls?
Details on the unusual CBS poll:
They repolled 1/3 of the responders in their poll last week after the debate.
This subset had gone 48-43 last week, then went to 54-41 after.
Clearly very good Obama news.
It was not, however, a brand new full poll.
Just came from early voting here in Broward County (yes--"hanging chad" country: the pollingplace was 50 yards from where that guy with the magnifying glass looked at the ballots!). A two hour wait in line, but the energy and the enthusiasm of the (overwhelmingly pro-Obama) crowd was, in a word, obvious. Many told their own GOTV stories. Now, Broward is overwhelmingly democratic, so we should expect it to go for Sen. Obama. But trust me, this is no ordinary, blase voter turnout. There were reprotedly a few problems with the new optically scanning ballot system earlier in the day, but they were resolved by the time I got through.
Sen. Clinton was in downtown Ft. Lauderdale at lunchtime to kick off the vote and drew a respectable crowd.
Have you libs noticed that the “most educated” and the “least educated” share the trophy on being the highest rated for Obama (socialism). It’s the “working class” middle that sees through the lies.
It will be unfortunate if the working people are outvoted by elitists and uneducated voters, both screaming “what can you do for me” instead of “what can I do for my country”.
Should Obama win, you will have the socialist Government you want. However, as the wise business leaders move away to find “greener pastures” for their money, the real question will be;
Who is going to pay for all of the promises?
Grab yourself a mirror because you will.
I am quitting my job and going on a four year vacation; courtesy of your grandchildren.
Pres. Obama, please send me another check.
Thanks for the answer, even though:
"Over 50% of the popular vote is considered a mandate."
That's absurd. That means "almost half of the country disagrees with you." I was thinking 66% at the very least.
Assuming yiannis above is right that the Eastern states overpoll for the Democrat and may well overpoll due to entrenched racism, while the West, if anything, underpolls for Dems, AND McCain quitting the Western states means one thing: he who wins Pennsylvania wins the election.
I see McCain having two strategies: go after Colorado and give up PA while hoping Virginia, NC, and Florida do what they did for Bush in 2004, or go all-out on Pennsylvania.
Though the numbers are closer in Colorado, it's tougher for McCain to do business there. He has to take Pennsylvania. He's smart to set up shop there, it's his only hope.
lynn t. said...
I'm afraid the McCain campaign continues their negative attacks because something -- possibly internal polling, possibly just a direct phone line to hell -- confirms that it is working for them. If Obama loses to this, we are condemned to four years of a wretched administration, and at the same time the value of viciously negative is confirmed for the next time around. How depressing. How very very depressing.
OMG ! SKY IS FALLING
The reason McCain is "gaining" IS the fourth debate. Yes, Obama "won," but McCain did well enough to encourage some Republicans to come home. We're looking at a really small slice of the electorate, though. For example, I imagine that people in Idaho and Utah and Oklahoma who thought McCain was not sufficiently anti-abortion, and were "undecided" or not going to vote are now going to pull that lever. Doesn't matter much in the big picture.
As for PA, McCain's campaign has been a joke from start to finish, why is anyone surprised that he's trying to turn it around instead of doing something that makes, you know, sense?
Why is McCain advertising on this site?
All the McCain ads I've seen are asking for donations. Policitcal horserace web sites seem as good as any others to be asking for donations.
I am also pollwatching here in NH on election day. We just had training about what Repub. tricks to watch out for. The campaign has been laying the groundwork with the Attorney General's office for months now. We will FIGHT for a fair election, at least in this state.
thanks news showing my ignorance ;-)
bry said...
Thanks for the answer, even though:
"Over 50% of the popular vote is considered a mandate."
That's absurd. That means "almost half of the country disagrees with you." I was thinking 66% at the very least.
nobody will get 66%
Another Mike:
The fact that Nate's model seem to vary within the margin of error speaks volumes of his model!
I strongly believe his model will be shown to be true, and that other pollster's fudging of numbers are similar to S&P and Moody's i.e. they will tell you what you want to hear since you're paying the bill!
The cool thing with Nate's model is that he's trying to undo the lean of each pollster...
We need nate to reevaluate all of the toxic bundled mortage securities... I would buy securites rated tripple A by Nate!
I'm afraid the McCain campaign continues their negative attacks because something -- possibly internal polling, possibly just a direct phone line to hell -- confirms that it is working for them. If Obama loses to this, we are condemned to four years of a wretched administration, and at the same time the value of viciously negative campaigning is confirmed for the next time around. How depressing. How very very depressing.
Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania.
It's about time the commentary caught up with the obvious facts. There is a reason McCain is fighting so hard for PA, and only half of it is desperation. Did you read what Nate said about bad polls in the last post? That's Pennsylvania. Obama is NOT winning by double digits. It's a dog fight.
Make no mistake, John King is right. If McCain loses PA, it is OVER. Obama should be defending tooth, fang, and claw, as if his children's lives were at stake. If he has 300 million dollars, 200 million of it should go into PA. The battle is drawn.
Yet, incongruously, Obama has no plans to be in PA this week. And he's pouring 6 million dollars into a rat hole (W.Virginia). Obama or a top surrogate needs to be in PA every day from now until the election, and he needs to saturate the media with a populist economic argument to trump the "Joe Plumber" garbage he's letting McCain have a free roll with.
Mark my words, lose PA (which is very possible) and the election is 50/50 at best. Win PA and it's 100/0.
I calmed myself down by remembering that someone could think of a 5% shot as their best chance when everything else gives them a 2% shot.
"I think that he's trying to pull OH and FL back into the R column this week, soften PA, then he'll have to go on the offensive hard in VA/NC, CO, and PA over the next two weeks"
Actually next 1 week. If he spends this week working on OH and FL, there's only one week left.
Have you noticed that the “most educated” and the “least educated” share the trophy on being the highest rated for Obama (socialism). It’s the “working class” middle that sees through the lies.
It will be unfortunate if the working people are outvoted by elitists and uneducated voters, both screaming “what can you do for me” instead of “what can I do for my country”.
Should Obama win, you will have the socialist Government you want. However, as the wise business leaders move away to find “greener pastures” for their money, the real question will be;
Who is going to pay for all of the promises?
Grab yourself a mirror because you will.
I am quitting my job and going on a four year vacation; courtesy of your grandchildren.
Pres. Obama, please send me another check.
moondancer, please elaborate on those "nightmar[ish]" numbers.
Ken Alderman endorses Obama
McCain: "just plain weird"
I think any movement towards McCain is Obama's Lehman/Suspension/Hurricane Sarah bounce fading, rather than any kind of actual McCain bounce. In other words, he's not doing anything to draw support to him so much as he has stopped doing things that were driving support to Obama.
In any event, it's way too little, way too late
Matt W, your first post has it backwards. McCain losing OH is a subset of McCain losing OH & FL, not the other way around. What Nate's chart says is that if McCain loses OH, there are 4 scenarios where he might win, and all of them involve winning FL.
If the Super Track curve is symmetrical and McBush is able to gain ground as fast as Obama did between 9/12 and 10/11, it looks like Obama will still win by 1.5%.
Have you analyzed where these McBush gains are coming from? Which states? (If from strong red states, who cares. If from strong blue states, again, who cares.)
Have there been any significant trends in Tipping Point States (especially those that are very close)? If so, which ones?
Again as has been said earlier - except for limited absentee balloting, there is no early voting in PA. So McCain hopes some late breaking event/news helps him, and in other states the early voting make such an event less important, whereas in PA it has a better change of being a game changer.
NOT saying this will work (remotely), just trying to give McCain the benefit of the doubt.
That's how difficult their situation is - they need to win an unlikely Kerry state with a good bunch of EVs that doesn't have early voting.
"If PA is too close to class it's going to be a long night..."
Ah, yes, takes me back to that horrible moment when it became clear that Zogby's crazy prediction that morning of a Kerry blow-out just wasn't going to happen: when the nets were NOT able to call PA right after the polls closed.
I hope I don't have to experience that again this year!! PLEASE!!
KennyB
I'm working with Obama team lawyers to stave off suppression too. They sued ACORN here hoping to get their registration lists to challenge all their voters. So far the judge(gooper) is not giving in on that.
"There's no way that a pollster within a campaign is any more accurate than a pollster outside a campaign."
That's mostly true, but-- If the internal pollster has reason to think--based on campaign reports, say--that they can do really well with turnout in an area where they traditionally DON'T, they can weight the results from that area differently. Also, campaign pollsters can do message-testing--eg, if a Tony Rezko message plays well in PA, maybe they think it's worth it to stay in PA with that message.
Obama will win PA
its just desperation from the McCain Campaign
Who is going to pay for all of Daddy Obama's promises, libs?
Can we get some polls on the top candidates to win the Republican nomination in 2012 to challenge President Obama for re-election?
Not cocky...confident
It's time we stop worrying about an October surprise or a major event that will dramatically shift the race. Not going to happen
Well I think >50% represents not just a plurality, but a majority of the country. That's why it is considered a mandate.
66%? No candidate in the history of the country has ever gotten that much. Even FDR couldn't crack 61%. It especially will never happen in a country this polarized.
I will be on Euclid Ave. at a church in Euclid...I'm not an attorney, but I have a brain and know voter suppression when I see it. A friend and I have gotten the day off to help drive folks to the polls... I really am supposed to be at the old folks home at hilltop village, but I can't stand watching all the brain-dead seniors voting for the 1st familiar name they relate to.
An additional blessing (don't say anything) is that these seniors think You are to put an X in the ballots, and don't know to fill-in the hole completely~they will more than likely be thrown out!!! (Here's to hoping there is a only a small amount of incompetent poll workers this year and they don't allow the sheriff's Dept. to pick-up the votes like they did in 2004)~Can anyone say President Kerry???
~Special advocate for the Trees...
mullibok00,
No, I had it right. There is a glitch.
If he loses OH and FL he obviously Lost OH. Therefore losing OH and FL is a subset of losing OH. Maybe you are confused as to the word "subset"?
Who will pay for it? WHO?
"theres no way a internal poll is more accurate than an external"?
If they use the same demographics and the sample is six figures I think it would be...
Obama showing power in key battlegrounds today :
+6 Missouri
+7 North Carolina
+9 Ohio
+10 Virginia
+6 Colorado
Georgia looks to be in play at -2.
Penn, Minn, Oregon, WI, + NH looking safe.
Just need to send Sarah Silverman to Florida again )
The people McCain would be trying toappeal too have names like Rezko.
It would be Rev. Wright they are testing and maybe seeing some sort of response.
I think the odds of a October Surprise working went down for McCain with Powell's endorsement of Obama.
McCain could hope for a military scare but with Powell on Obama's side (ready to campaign if needed) and with Mr. O stating Powell will have a role as an advisor even a military issue will not play as well as it could.
I think mose people rather have Powell then McCain to solve a military conflict.
right wing conspiricist said...
Who will pay for it? WHO?
good question
I always thought it was insane to count on OH and FL for an EV count win for a Democrat. FL in particular has gone Dem only 1 in 6 cycles. While OH is more of a bell weather OH is getting more conservative as the jobs move out of the state. The fact that both are seriously in play for Obama is huge. I always thought Obama's firewall had to be VA and CO which had started swinging Democratic because of Demographics. Also Obama closed very well in MO during the primaries and that could happen during the general.
The best part is during the primaries CO, VA and NC are states where Obama vastly over performed the polls in the primaries and Obama only needs 2 of 3 to win the election hands down. Obama over performed in FL as well but that was more of a beauty contest at the time. Obama was down by 25 in the polls and lost by 17. OH is a tough nut it was one of the few states where Obama slightly under performed in the polls.
Ugh...this is getting tedious. I can't wait until this election is over.
2much2lose,
Engaging trolls is an activity in which we all have too much to lose! Resist the temptation
"Who will pay for it? WHO?"
You will. You personally. And your family. BHO's stormtroopers are going to take everything from you and your family, every cent and every scrap except loincloths, and then force you to run on giant hamster wheels to generate power for the compulsory national yoga retreats.
Sigh.
Sarah Silverman is a crazy bitch
Guys please don't respond to RWC we discovered last night he was a troll devoid of logic.
Just don't respond and he'll go away
So, what's the verdict? If O lost PA would that mean a larger movement at play around the nation? Or would it be isolated because of Mac push in that state alone.
I agree with Matador...where is Obama's "Joe the Firefighter?" Mac surrounded himself with working folk today in a photo opp.
(draping himself with the working class instead of the flag now)
But Obama could PARADE a group onstage (like a college commensement) and have them ANNOUNCE TO THE CROWD in the mic. how much they save in tax under Obama... let's see Mac do a similar parade!!
Paul
How about throwing names around like:
1) The Alaska Separatist Party
2) G. Gordon Liddy
3) Charles Keating
I'm sure there's more un savory people and groups that link to the Republican ticket.
Funny, I just got an email from the M/P campaign that opens: "Your vote in this election is more critical than ever as the polls show John McCain and Governor Palin in a virtual tie. Voting early by absentee ballot or in person is the best way to get your vote counted now and avoid the long lines on Election Day."
I guess, technically it is true; John McCain & Governor Palin are in a virtual tie.... with each other!
francis said...
"Who will pay for it? WHO?"
You will. You personally. And your family. BHO's stormtroopers are going to take everything from you and your family, every cent and every scrap except loincloths, and then force you to run on giant hamster wheels to generate power for the compulsory national yoga retreats.
Sigh.
*** right wing conspiricist's head explodes ***
LOL
I'm too lazy to scroll up to get the username, but I agree with the comment above about branding McCain a "borrow and spend" politician. Folks have to understand that, if there is a necessary government program, it has to be paid for either through RAISING revenue (i.e., taxes, duties, etc.) or BORROWING revenue.
Treasury doesn't have a bunch of magic genie lamps that they rub, and wish for a trillion dollars in gold!
Matt W. You're right. I deleted it. :)
coachjdc said...
Funny, I just got an email from the M/P campaign that opens: "Your vote in this election is more critical than ever as the polls show John McCain and Governor Palin in a virtual tie. Voting early by absentee ballot or in person is the best way to get your vote counted now and avoid the long lines on Election Day."
I guess, technically it is true; John McCain & Governor Palin are in a virtual tie.... with each other!
WHHHHHAT ?
OMG
this is like asking Russia for campaign money
Screw you, moronic CHILDREN. It's a serious question for adults. I guess you lib children don't have the capacity to understand it.
How come RCP is not counting the CBS poll?
Instead of borrow and spend... I think the line of attack would be against his "spending freeze". Decreasing government spending in an economic downturn is a bigger disaster than raising taxes.
It would also be an easy response for McCain to say I want "spending freeze" if he is labeled "borrow and spend"
Again, the CBS poll is a subset repolled after last week. It is NOT a full poll. It doesn't qualify. See comment earlier.
The thing is... people who read these threads have already made up their mind.
I write/read here for interesting insights but I'm not changing my mind and neither are you.
While I learn a lot from here it has more to do with history/strategy/statistics. It's a better way to spend time then wathcing TV and more fun to me as I'm not into watching sports. I also think Nate will be shown to be a great predictor and until power/greed corrupts him this will be THE site to watch for real analysis of political races since even respected media are too afraid to call a spade a space.
where are they going ?
Tomorrow:
Obama: FL
Michelle Obama: FL
Joe Biden: CO
Hillary Clinton: Omaha, MN
McCain: PA
Palin: NV
Wednesday:
Obama: VA
Michelle Obama: FL
Joe Biden: CO
McCain: NH, OH
Palin: OH
Thursday:
Obama: WI
Palin: OH
Friday:
Joe Biden: WV
McCain: CO
Saturday:
Hillary Clinton: TX, NM, UT
October 24 - November 3
Obama: CO, FL, IA, NV, NM, OH, VA
November 1:
Palin: NC
sfergus,
The comparison numbers are from before the FIRST debate, not last week!
right wing conspiricist said...
Screw you, moronic CHILDREN. It's a serious question for adults. I guess you lib children don't have the capacity to understand it.
liberal hippies are too stupid to answer our questions
Obama cancels Thurs-Fri schedule to travel to be with his grandmother in Hawaii; she is in failing health.
Get Warren Buffet (or some other very rich business person with cred.) and here's the spot:
"I'm Warren Buffet and I'm one of the Wealthiest capitalists on earth... no check that I AM THE WEALTHIEST CAPITALIST ON EARTH!
I support Obama because he's smart enough to know how to bring wealth to the working class and get our economy moving again. The more the working class makes, well, the more I'll probably make. If John McCain thinks that's socialism, he's less qualified to be president than I thought!!"
Has anyone noticed the 2 Party Vote Share Market at IEM has Obama up by >10pts?
Also, where all the states on the right side of the page?
Breaking from Countdown ***
Obama not campaigning Thursday and Friday to be at grandmothers bedside in hawaii..
The Obama news was just on Countdown for the record.
Ditto to what Robert said. This is a website dedicated to polls and statistics. It is not dedicated to spreading propaganda. So go elsewhere to do that.
Schwarzenegger to Hit the Trail With McCain
Politico: The Terminator-turned-California governor will join the GOP nominee in Columbus, Ohio, on Halloween to rally voters
In 1945, Hitler was convinced that secret super weapons would wipe out the advancing Allied armies advancing on Berlin, and continued to issue orders to units that had long been destroyed.
McCain is convinced that PA is in play and that FL, VA, NC, MO and OH are safe.
green,
I like it!
sfergus,
Seriously??? Got a link?
"liberal hippies are too stupid to answer our questions"
real joe, I will answer your questions, if you have any. But I'm not a hippie. They smell like patchouli.
pa john said...
Breaking from Countdown ***
Obama not campaigning Thursday and Friday to be at grandmothers bedside in hawaii
is she sick ??
Politico: The Terminator-turned-California governor will join the GOP nominee in Columbus, Ohio, on Halloween to really scare voters
I agree... limiting goverment spending is worse right now then marginally raising taxes... We, the tax payers (and owner of the printing press) are the only ones with money at this point. We need to spend it to start a new economic trend. Sure it will cost us, but the alternative is far worse... i.e depression.
This is probably what I fear most, that Obama will rightfully increase goverment spending and then the R's will use it against him...
Sure raising spending will cost us in the long run, but when in a crisis you don't worry about that.. We should have saved during the cood times; like the last 8 years.... That would have been smart... but in a democracy you get the leaders you deserve so here we are... let's hope we can jump start the economy with out creating too much inflation...
McCNN Does "Fair & Balanced"
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/20/134732/43/216/636436
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/10/cnn-does-fair-balanced.html
Please keep working for Obama, its not over yet!
"Obama not campaigning Thursday and Friday to be at grandmothers bedside in hawaii..
"
Ah, damn that..... I hope she is still around to see him win the election!
real joe, I can't believe you said that. You're usually a gentleman.
Just confirmed the Obama to visit Grandmother story on CNN international.
That is sad, I hope she gets to see her grandson get elected.
obama canceling fri and sat?
i bet somewhere there are repugs who are thrilled she is sick
pa john said...
Breaking from Countdown ***
Obama not campaigning Thursday and Friday to be at grandmothers bedside in hawaii
is she sick ??
Real Joe - KO didn't elaborate, but it sounds that way.
His grandmother has been in failing health and housebound for some time. Not sure what the nature of her illness. At the time of the convention, it was understood it was impossible for her to come to Denver under any circumstances.
green:
LOVE IT--verbatim. 10 sec spot. Perfect
A few things are really hurting McCain this week.
-Palin's and Buchmann's call to a new McCarthyism is really hurting the McCain campaign. It has energized the Dem base and turned off independents.
-Colin Powell's endorsement is huge no matter what the McCain camp says. The endorsement of Michael Smerconish and many right leaning individuals and newspapers is giving a constant drum beat that Obama is safe and counters all the radical assertions by the McCain campaign.
-Obama's big crowds in MO really helps him in MO and will continue to help him around the country.
I think Gallup is the fastest poll to react to current situations and that poll has been getting near to Obama's highs today.
No link Matt W... thanks for the post... anybody got an in to the Obama campaign... they need my advertising brain!!
Ungh... what respect I had for Arnold as a politician just went out the door... why is he joining a sinking ship?
She was released from a hospital - has a serious ilness - Gibbs says the fact Obama is going to Hawaii speaks volumes.
new McCain ad:
"Obama's mother dying of shame over his socialist plans"
I hope she gets to see her grandson sworn in as President of United States!
1. Obama's gotten a lot of good press Sunday and Today, let's see how that plays out in national trackers and state polls the next couple of days. With Obama putting a full court press into Florida today and tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised to see Obama regain momentum there.
2. I am not sure if the model assumed enough tightening. Last week, when Obama was up by 8, it was not unreasonable to project at point that he would have a 4 point lead on November 4 based purely on the tightening of the race; It seemed that the model wasn't looking at drastic of a move. It is hard to model that dynamic in any particular election year, but it seems pretty clear from the trackers and the state polls that Obama hasn't "lost" support per se, rather McCain has simply brought more "lean McCain" voters firmly into his camp.
Look for McCain to sort of stall out at this +6 point range, then tighten a bit more to plus 3-4 in the waning days of the campaign. That's still a bigger lead Bush brought into 2004 and 2000.
My thoughts are with Obama and his gandmother. I know she means a lot to him, and I do really hope she will survive long enough to see her grandson become our next President
francis said...
new McCain ad:
"Obama's mother dying of shame over his socialist plans"
that's disgusting
Thoughts:
1) We need the youth vote and they've been flaky in the past. PLEASE find out anything you can do to help get these folks to vote early!
2) My conservative friends have recently woken up to the fact that Obama is winning and started to panic. Even tho they don't like McCain they seem scared into action by the idea that republicans might not win. So in the end, I do think it's end of race tightening
3) CA People: Vote No on 8. No matter how you feel about the issue, please don't support inequality under the law.
i will pray for her
Robert,
Consumer debt is probably a bigger problem than national debt. The "tax payers" do not have money to spend and if they do it is almost certainly being spent or otherwise productively invested. Consumer spending is not the solution here.
Also the last 8 years were not really "good years" the problems were largely just masked by the housing bubble. Though certainly we could have saved a bit more than we did
Post a Comment