10.18.2008

Today's Polls, 10/18

John McCain has once again improved his position in the national tracking polls, having gained ground in 4 of the 5 6 trackers that published today (Rasmussen and IBD/TIPP were the exceptions).** Our model now perceives that Obama has come somewhat off his peak numbers, which were realized perhaps 5-7 days ago.

At the same time, McCain's improved position in the trackers is a little bit difficult to reconcile with certain other pieces of evidence. In the Research 2000 tracking poll, for instance, while McCain has gained 5 points worth of ground in 48 hours in the topline numbers, the candidates' approval ratings over that period are completely unmoved. In the Gallup tracker, while McCain has gained ground among likely voters since the debate, he has lost ground among registered voters. Lastly, every poll conducted on the debate itself suggested that Obama won the event.

What I think we may be seeing are some improvements in Republican enthusiasm. Prior to the debate, McCain was having a very rough go of things in the media, as the only stories seemed to be the ineffectiveness of his attacks on Bill Ayers, and the nonresponsiveness of his campaign to the economy. In the polls that measured these things, there was evidence that enthusaism was very low among McCain supporters. A conservative voter, having little real message to latch on to, and seeing McCain far behind in the polls, might have been telling pollsters that he wasn't sure if he was going to bother to vote, and therefore might have been screened out by likely voter models, which all of the tracking polls are now using.

Between "Joe the Plumber", "spread the wealth", "I'm not George Bush", etc., however, McCain at least now seems to have a few somewhat more constructive talking points (in that sense, the fact that the Ayers attacks went over like a lead balloon at the debate might have done him a favor). So some of those crestfallen conservatives might have moved back into the likely voter universe.

What I don't know that McCain is doing, on the other hand, is actually persuading very many voters, and particularly not independents or registered Democrats. If that is the case, than McCain is likely to run into something of a wall very soon here, brought about the Republicans' substantial disadvantage in partisan identification. People sometimes misunderstand the nature of "momentum" in presidential campaigns. If McCain was down 8 points yesterday, and is down 6 points today, that does not mean that he is likely to be 4 points down tomorrow. On the contrary, polling in the general election seems essentially to be a random walk, with the minor stipulation that the polling has had some tendency to tighten slightly during the stretch run (as our model accounts for). That is, the polls are essentially as likely to move back toward Obama tomorrow as they are to continue to move toward McCain.

McCain's other problem is that the polls in battleground states have not really tightened at all. Obama gets good numbers today, for instance, in North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Florida. Obama presently has something like a 3:1 advantage in advertising, and most of that advertising is concentrated in battleground states. As such, this may serve as a hedge against any improvements that McCain is able to make elsewhere in the country.



** EDIT: I had originally missed the IBD/TIPP poll, which apparently does publish on weekends, and shows Obama gaining ground. It is not accounted for in today's simulation run.

440 comments

Jen said...

I think jack be nimble may have a sock puppet too.

bamaObama said...

Bachman=political cleansing in the vein of McCarthy and Wallace. Everyone who doesn't agree with her is anti-American. No. She is anti-American. SAD, SAD, SAD.

critstock said...

@Jack-be-nimble

I'm not surprised by anything that anonymous fools says on the Internets. What is funny, however, is that you seem to believe that anyone on a site dedicated to careful statistical analysis of polling numbers would care at all about your half-baked opinions and conspiracy theories. You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself. Perhaps that makes you feel good, but it also cuts you off from reality and makes you seem ridiculous.

Akoolromeo said...

Jack-be-nimble said...
BREAKING ON DRUDGE

OBAMA SUPPORTER STOLE MENTALLY-CHALLENGED MAN'S VOTE
********
Being the nice people that we are on this site, we will do our best to get your vote back from that supporter.

Eric said...

Here's what's fantastic, and I have to give that nut Howard Dean credit where it's due, I think GOTV for Dems might take over the planet. Here's where I'm coming from, Bill Maher has said on multiple occasions that he doesn't get why Pubs continue to get elected because if everyone actually voted, there'd be alot more Dems than Pubs. Problem being, Pubs GOTV better than Dems. Plouffe and Obama took the reigns from Dean and if it works as well as it appears to be, it might be something the GOP can do nothing about for a long time. Catch my meaning? Basically, if there are 40,000,000 Dems and 30,000,000 Pubs, WTF are they going to do election after election? "Slick Willie" said after the Civil right Act in '64, the country was split about 45% Cons and 40% Libs. Impossible landscape for Dems to win in. 5 out of 6 elections, GOP won, 3 were landslides. When you're only fighting for that 15% sliver and start out behind 5, you're up a creek without a paddle. I think Rove, Cheney, Bush Jr. have pushed us to about 45% Lib and 40% Con now. The script has flipped. Dems rule for a long, long time!!!! A man can dream can't he! what you think?

bamaObama said...

Now critstock, don't play with the neocons. You know that just leads to frustration and is the game they want to play.

bamaObama said...

eric, you are on the right trail. It's all about organization. GOTV. The numbers are finall in our favor. That's why I keep tellin yall to quit panicing. It will be just fine this time.

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Can we please just ignore jack be---he feeds off the attention and wants us to respond--he is like a scab don't pick it--it will go away.

bamaObama said...

Don't play with the neocons. Let the scab heal.

jack-be-nimble said...

Developing....

Zogby TIED Sunday....

Akoolromeo said...

I think Obama should have phrased his answer better than saying "Spreading the wealth". I can understand how that will rub some people wrong. The way I see it is we have a 10 trillion debt, which we have to someday address and pay it off, before it crushes us. That means we can't afford to spend more, and we can't afford to cut taxes either, so both candidates are fooling themselves, if they think this country can afford to implement eithe rone's plan.
An independent group looked at both candidates economic plan and said Obama's would add 736 billion over 10 years to the debt, while McCain wold add 1.1 trillion, so for all McCain saying how this isn't the time for Obama's additional spending, it's definitely not the time for his additional tax cuts either.
I am counting on Obama not being able to keep his promises regarding the expenditure or even the tax cuts. It's like when Clinton took office in 1993, and realized that our financial books were in much worst shape than what was led on to the public, and knew he couldn't deliver on the middle class tax cut he promised, because he had to make the debt the #1 issue. A decision that actually helped the World market andimprove the economy, because it made the rest of the world more financially secure seeing how we were going to actually do something about our debt, instead of ignoring it and watching it rise. I have a feeling that is what is going to have to be done again. We need a fiscal conservative in the White House, and McCain certainly isn't one. Clinton was much more a financial conservative than any Republican in my life time, especially moreso than Bush or even Reagan. A true fiscal conservative would never spend more than we take in, and wouldn't run up 5 trillion debt in their 8 years in office.
Eventually, taxes are going to have to be raised, because there's not enough cuts that can be made that will reduce a 10 trillion debt. (The actual debtis 55 trillion, but first thing first) As soon as we get through this recession, it's time for us Americans to realize our free ride is over. No more can we continue to live high on the hog on our National credit card. No more can we continue to expect something for nothing. If you want something great, we have to pay for it, just like when you buy thelatest electronic toy.

Akoolromeo said...

Eric said...
Here's what's fantastic, and I have to give that nut Howard Dean credit where it's due, I think GOTV for Dems might take over the planet. Here's where I'm coming from, Bill Maher has said on multiple occasions that he doesn't get why Pubs continue to get elected because if everyone actually voted, there'd be alot more Dems than Pubs. Problem being,
**********
Those registration numbers can be misleading, because many Democrats, particularly the older ones, in the South are really Republican in Democratic clothing. They just never changed their registration in the 80's, when they started voting along Republican lines.

Wes said...

Add the Atlanta Journal-Constitution to the list of Obama endorsers. Not unexpected, but still good news for Obama in a state that is getting closer and closer.

Nick said...

I don't understand Zogby's poll. Mccain is at 91% with republicans. Obama is at 88% with democrats. And Obama is leading 16 point among independents, yet he and Mccain are tied on Sundays poll?

At this pace Mccain will be leading in a few days. If there is one flaw in Obama's campaign its that his team is terrible at controlling the daily news cycle. Its sad when you let Mccain's Joe the plumber prop eat into your lead. Obama needs to roll out the Colin Powell endorsement to stomp on Palin's SNL stint and take over a couple days in the news, then hammer Mccain with that welfare comment, and then bring out his september numbers later next week. If he can be 3 or 4 points up by this time next week, hes in good shape. If we start seeing polls out with Obama up by 1 or 2 or tied. Id be worried.

Nick said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Jesse Radin said...

It looks like Obama peaked. I hope the debates push him up but it looks unlikely.

I am confident but I know we must keep fighting.

Jack said...

This race will be close. It will go down to the wire. The good thing is that Dems have a great candidate. The bad thing is that there is a real disconnect in the Dem Party: Obama should be winning this by 20 points, not 1-5.
The GOP brand is absolutely lousy. What does it say about the Dem brand that this thing is ridiculously close?
Isn't it true that state polls lag behind national polls? If true, that means that what we thought was blue, will be lighter blue, if not white or pink in a few days.

Akoolromeo said...

I Noticed in the state by state, Florida has gonre from "Likely Dem" to lean Dem, so it looks like some of the movement towards McCain may have come from Florida. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have lived in Florida too long to believe it will go Democratic this year, and I don't have much confidence in Ohio either. I think those races are just too close for Obama to win. I think the close states may end up tipping in the end to McCain. I hope I am wrong, and no I am NOT a troll. Just trying to keep some perspective and not get over excited or confident.

Jack said...

I have always thought that Florida was out of reach. Ohio may be too. Virginia is O's best shot. One should not be considered a troll for offering a non-rosy scenario. In 2004 I often debated with folks at DailyKos about how things were not as they were claiming them to be. They all cast negative polling results as part of a right wing conspiracy. The good thing for Dems is that the polls lean their way, but we need clear eyed analysis rather than blind faith. I am and always have been a believer in the reality based community.

Winnie said...

keith et al,

Just wonder in our country with freedom of speech, why someone can just accuse someone else as "socialist" per se? That just sounds like 40 + years early on in China if some one was labeled as "rightist".

tom said...

This is my first attempt at commenting. I need to ventilate. How dare that Minnesota "trollop" call me unAmerican ! I retired from the Air Force after 26 yrs as a colonel. I joined during the VN war when my lottery number came up #3. Where in the hell was Dick Cheney or W? Pete Coors, scion of the beer family ran unsuccessfully for the senate seat in Colorado (my home state) vacated by turncoat Ben Campbell. Coors played varsity lacrosse at an Ivy but was exempted from the draft for medical reasons (my ass!) I'm sick of the hypocrisy. I'm a Reagan democrat who has been blue since 1992. For the first time in my life I placed a campaign sign in my yard (BHO), a rarity here in the evangelical Vatican (Colorado Springs) although many more dem signs than in 2004. I was channel surfing this evening and came upon Huckaby's show on Fox. Joe the f'ing tax evading lying SOB faux plumber was his guest. If the cretins who watch Fox actually understood BHO's tax paln they might understand that it is in their best interest to elect him as POTUS 44. With their refund they could buy new wheels for their homes.

Spencer =] said...

As an Obama super-vol from Indiana, Im not discouraged about our race for the white house.

Nate, your win %'s are screwed up on a few states including MO, just letting you know.

nirad said...

why hasn't anyone polled South Dakota? If ND is a dead heat and Montana is close, shouldn't SD be close too?

Nathaniel C. Gallagher said...

"the Ayers attacks went over like a lead balloon at the debate"

I take exception with comparing McCain's failed, pathetic mud slinging and the buoyancy of lead balloons:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZSkM-QEeUg

oct said...

McCain staffers register to vote in OH improperly

inatyler said...

In response to an earlier post by Rodney Perterson: That was real racist. People that speak like that are part of what's wrong with this good ole US of A now !

In regards to the comment about Obama's tax plan. It was a tax and spend liberal that pulled us out of the last mess the Republicans put us in. Clinton actually had us in the black, and we hadn't alienated our allies.

How do you expect McCain to be any different when he has Bush's advisors advising him. It's gonna take a while but this economy can turn around but not with the same party in the White House.

inatyler said...

About Colin Powell: Do you honestly think anyone's going to care who he endorses?

Not making a statement, just asking?

I don't think his statement will have an impact on the voters or the electorates.

He also disagreed with Bush on several occasions.

nkpolitics1279 said...

The actor who played Al Bundy has endorsed Barack Obama- What is ironic is Married with Children took place in Chicago where Obama lives.

adam said...
This post has been removed by the author.
adam said...

The numbers don't add up. Nearly one in two voters projected for McCain? Given the financial turmoils of late, shouldn't Obama be up by at least 15?
Picture this scenario:
10% of those who say they support Obama don't actually show up to vote.

Another 10% flip and vote for McCain?

Jack-be-nimble said...

Shut the hell up Jack...your not Jack so don't speak for me.

I don't see a zogby poll tied, but if i did I would tout it.

You are giving me a bad name so shut the hell up.

Roger said...

McCain hires racist who told voters McCain's daughter was a "black baby" in 2000

http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/mccain-hires-racist-who-told-voters.html


I think McCain already knows he's going to lose. I think he's just making sure the right-wing smear-merchants get as much of the blame as possible. That's the only reason I can see for him picking Palin -- she's som much of a disaster, it has to have been deliberate on his part. I think he's giving the neocons all the rope they need to hang themselves.

Polymeron said...

I wouldn't write off McCain's getting stronger as a trend just yet, for two reasons. First, if the difference is enthusiasm of the Republican camp, this can definitely influence other voters to create some momentum. We all know it's not easy to hold on to opinions you're not 100% sure of in the face of rigorous opposition. Secondly, while polls are apparently in free movement, I notice that the site's trendline is very consistent: It keeps peaking in one direction and then steadily advances in the other direction, with almost no "bumps" - this has happened several times now, and it least visually, it looks more or less the same now - peak and starting to go down. This is especially likely is some last minute tricks crop up - another Bin Laden tape, for instance.

jqb said...

You guys fretting is amusing. Every time the polls go down you start panicking. Team Obama knows what they are doing. Its in the bag folks, relax.

That's exactly what Team Obama has been loudly saying NOT to do, you silly unconcern troll.

triton said...

That's a bit rich, Jack-be-nimble, considering that, with around a trillion dollars of taxpayers' money, it is Republican George W. Bush who has set in train the great American socialist revolution. He's even nationalizing the banks. His presidency began in the USA but will end in the USSA.

Genevieve said...

Former Sec. of State Colin Powell endorses Obama.

Ezliving Jim said...

Perhaps America is turning away from Obama's Socialist agenda.

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平平 said...

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平平 said...

^^ very nice

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