With seven different daily tracking polls to work with -- one of which releases three separate versions of its model each day -- there is a lot to choose from for those who might seek to cherry-pick results.
Slow news day, Matt? If this is a two-point race right now, I'll eat Drudge's fedora. None of the dozen or so other polls that were in the field this week shows a race that close. Nor do either of the alternate versions of Gallup's model, including the so-called Likely Voters II model that I find most credible. (Drudge, of course, had no interest in featuring the Zogby poll, as he had for the past several of days on his site, but which today showed Obama gaining ground.)
Let me be clear: I don't blame Drudge for trying to drive the narrative. Unlike certain other folks, it's not as though he's made any claim to being objective. With real news -- which polls aren't -- he generally has excellent and entertaining instincts.
I do, however, blame those of who allow yourselves to have your day ruined when Drudge moonlights as some kind of polling analyst.
A fairer way to analyze tracking polls, in any event, is something like this: McCain gained ground in three of the seven trackers today (Gallup, Rasmussen, Battleground). He lost ground in one (Zogby). Three others (Research 2000, Hotline, IBD/TIPP) were unchanged.
That could indicate a slight tightening toward McCain, who also had gained ground on average in the tracking polls yesterday. It could also indicate statistical noise. What it probably does not indicate is any dramatic shift in the momentum of the race.
Our model, indeed -- crunching all of this data along with the state polling -- does think Obama's momentum had stalled out about a bit, and pegs his national lead at closer to 7 points rather than the 8-point advantage it had given him a couple of days ago. Why? I don't know. Conventions are not the only events that produce bounces. Debates can too; if a candidate picks up, say, 3 points as the result of winning a debate, he might keep 2 of those points but give one of them back after a handful of days. To the extent that Obama has lost any steam, I sense that it is more something like that than anything constructive the McCain campaign has done.
And of course, there was another debate last night, which most observers concluded that Obama won, and which may give him another momentum boost. That debate will begin to be reflected in tomorrow's numbers and will be fully rolled in by Sunday or Monday.
Looking very quickly at the state numbers:
Anything interesting here? Not really; even the notoriously erratic Zogby Interactive polls seem fairly well behaved. Rasmussen has Ohio moving back into a tie after Obama had led by 2 there earlier in the week. On the other hand, that 2-point lead represented the first time that Obama had led any Rasmussen poll of Ohio, so relative to their envisioning of the state, this remains a decent result for him.
10.16.2008
Today's Polls, 10/16
by Nate Silver @ 7:40 PM...see also colorado, connecticut, florida, indiana, massachusetts, missouri, msm, national polls, nevada, new hampshire, new mexico, new york, north carolina, ohio, pennsylvania, spin, today's polls, virginia
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586 comments
First? I refresh too often here.
MN Senate Debate: Live Analysis
MN Senate Polling Graph
Oct 16 Polling Update
Obama 361, McCain 177
it's pathetic, i live for the daily polls analysis
I love you. it's true.
Nate, any comment on this (polling related) article which is currently circulating around the right-wing blogosphere? It strikes me as transparently ridiculous, but it's very lengthy and is at least pretty well organized and written -- seems worthy of a response.
http://www.zombietime.com/lefts_big_blunder/
"I do, however, blame those of who allow yourselves to have your day ruined when Drudge moonlights as some kind of polling analyst."
High five, Nate Silver. High. Five. You are the calm, seasoned Sherpa guide to errant nervous liberals the world over.
Now for relevant comment...
I am a long-time lurker but first-time poster. I have to say that this site has without question fueled my numbers obsession (I am a math teacher-in-training) as well as my desperate need for up-to-date info. Also, reading the comments here is *way* more fun than reading CNN ticker comments. People are much more articulate and insightful, and the trolls are much funnier. Kudos to Nate for providing all the info and such a great forum!
McCain's deficit in terms of points needed to gain per day increases every day the race remains unchanged, and he has no rabbits left in his hat.
Thanks for another great post nate.
Every day that passes it becomes harder and harder for McCain to make up ground because of early voting.
"I do, however, blame those of who allow yourselves to have your day ruined when Drudge moonlights as some kind of polling analyst."
I needed that slap in the face.
Ohhh, Drudge. You so crazy.
Did you miss today's North Dakota poll?
-- Interview Sarah Palin! --
Damn these 3 weeks are gonna be HELL to sweat out!!!!
I kinda wish somebody would slap the MSM silly. Why this flip-flop behavior after already helping to screw up elections in the past. And people need to look beyond just the MSM for their news.
Cherry picking data to make a point? This is great news... for George Bush!
("I knew George Bush. George Bush was a friend of mine. And I sir, am no George Bush. But I'm the next best thing!")
Oh sorry-that said-go Obama!!!
@fwiffo
"DFM Research for the North Dakota United Transportation Union"
That's polling on behalf of a candidate or union, which is excluded. More details in the FAQ.
Thanks. I needed that. It is cool that the cherry picked poll STILL had Obama winning...
Are these CNN polls fresh from today? They look like it, but no one is covering them, so I feel like I'm missing something:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/16/polls-going-in-wrong-direction-for-mccain/
I've been refreshing every 2 minutes since 2:00 pm (pacific). I'm obsessed. I can't eat, I can't work, I can't do anything but await these polls. No I can breathe easy, chastise myself for believing Drudge for even a millisecond, and head back to work.
Thank you, Nate.
Thank you.
Thanks for another great analysis, Nate! I absolutely despise math and statistics but I love your site and have been visiting daily (okay, more like several times daily) since I first discovered it several weeks ago. Keep up the great work! :)
I saw the Drudge headline and immediately came to this site for the real story on the polls...and then hit refresh like a hundred times until it appeared.
kuromahou...those are just "polls-of-polls" cnn has released...as far as I know they havn't actually done any polling today.
By the way, Im getting sick of the first comment on every topic being "first". Grow up people haha
@Sarah: Drudge is a right-wing hack, and don't you ever forget it! :P
I don't think this new North Dakota poll meets Nate's criteria, but Kos has a poll in the works there.
Matt is a good guy
just pushing what ever good news he can get
McCain and Palin visiting Ohio. McCain to stop in Toledo. Odds on an appearance of Joe the tax avoiding not really a plumber Plumber?
I'm trying not to get worried by the stats. I think we need to look back only a few weeks ago when we were ecstatic that Obama crossed 270. Now we're frantic when his win percentage drops below 95% . . . and Obama/Biden warn us not to be overconfident-HAH!
I have a nit-picky, geeky request which is that the gorgeous red/blue histogram of your simulation results be either a) available in a larger version, or b) modified so that the horizontal axis is adjusted to cover some reasonable range that contains, say, 99.9% of the simulations rather than having the full [0,538] range ... I'd like to be able to see the detail in the structure of this histogram.
Also, someone else mentioned this and I think it would be very good is if you could have your Super Tracker horizontal axis go all the way out to Nov 4th, and maybe even show the path (if the model computes one) of the projection over the remaining 19 days ...
Yes, I am a total geek :-)
The McCain supporters are getting more vicious the farther they fall behind. Did anyone see this racist California newsletter against Obama? I wish I could sit in that group's room on Election Night.
Nate:
This is kind of silly, but have you thought of doing an article on snapshot polls like the dominos.com one or the 7-11 one? Dominos is showing a massive Obama landslide right now, for example.
Hardly scientific, but might be worth a post just for entertainment value.
Ryan,
About that zombienation report, they seem to be saying that polls are being influenced by left-wing sentiment from the data collectors (i.e. the people who make the calls). If that were true, we would have seen it in earlier elections, and we wouldn't see it in polls like the Zogby Interactive. However, he haven't and we do.
Thank you for the daily reality check!
They are just trying so hard to drive a narrative that McCain has somehow rebooted his campaign and is gaining traction. Matt may be a good guy, but he should better than to push that kind of garbage as serious breaking/shocking news. It diminishes him.
I love when The Model comes up with a result and Nate admits he has no idea why. It makes The Model seem a bit like Frankenstein's monster, no longer under the control of its creator.
It definitely needs a name now, so we can properly worship it once it disposes of Nate and Sean and becomes our new overlord.
Hi,
I'm a long time political junkie and read all kinds of stuff right and left. I have to say that this site is the most interesting of them all.
Well done. And lets hope that what you're forecasting comes to pass.
Have you folks voted already?
McCain will win?
Of course, the Drudge thing doesn't ruin my day.
It just stinks that Drudge went from "conservative but tries to be fair and balanced" to "Faux News"-fair and balanced.
I always used to recommend Drudge completely to anyone and everyone. Yeah, he has always had a slight slant but it has gradually gotten to the point where it detracts greatly from the site.
It kind of feels like dating a girl with hairy arms, only to find out her arms are only hairy because she is a man.
WTF??
"WASHINGTON - A female telecommunications lobbyist who became part of an explosive story early this year about John McCain has broken months of silence to deny the main subtext of the account — that she was suspected of being romantically involved with the Republican presidential candidate. "I did not have a sexual relationship with Senator McCain," Vicky Iseman told the National Journal magazine. "
Did anybody ask her again? Did anybody care at this point? Or was she just trying to clear her reputation at this point . . .
Nate,
The Ras Tracker number is listed in here incorrectly.
Ras has McCain with 46 today! you give him just 44.
You have Obama's 50% number correct.
Thanks, Nate. I was waiting for you to tear into how Drudge is cherry picking the polls in order to drive his not-so-thinly-veiled narrative. And once again you deliver!
538.com, why can't I quit you?!?
bartosz,
No, my state (NY) doesn't allow it unless I'm unavoidably out of my county on Nov. 4.
Cossack has been unable to be first yet---19 days you can do it.
@Kelly:
Perhaps the models should be called SkyNet?
1st time poster. Avid lurker. 538 is the best.
I was thinking about the Rasmussen tracker while walking the dog this afternoon (yeah, yeah, like y'all haven't done it too) and I had a really fascinating (well, I think so, but remember, I'm a guy who thinks about polls while walking his dog) insight.
Did you realize that it's possible for a candidate's actual lead to grow in a tracking poll but have his reported lead shrink, not simply because of sampling error but entirely because of only ROUNDING error?
Suppose, for example, Obama led McCain on Tuesday in a poll 49.8 - 45.4. This would be reported as a 50-45 lead and would (somewhat incorrectly) be interpreted as showing a 5-point Obama lead (his real lead here is only 4.4).
Now, suppose in the next day's poll, McCain gains 0.2 points but Obama gains 0.6 points. This would put Obama ahead by 4.8 points, a 0.4 point improvement - 50.4 - 45.6, but would be rounded to a 50 - 46 lead and would look like Obama's lead actually narrowed by one point!
Incidentally, you can do something similar to basically make a 3-point gain only show up as a 1-point gain w/ rounding.
Just to be clear, I'm not really arguing that Obama really gained in Rasmussen last night. I just found it fascinating that it's mathematically possible.
Nate - thanks. But with your pledge to eat Drudge's hat I'd be a little careful. Elliot @ electioninspection promised to run down the street naked should Hillary win the South Dakota primary - that confident was he of his demographic analysis. We all know what happened. I know not whether this came to pass but there is such a thing as tempting fate!
It would be better if the internet police at work would block this site. They're definitely not getting their money's worth from me lately. Cheers!
@Sheila: I too would love to be able to click on the histogram and super-tracker charts and see full-size versions with all the details.
This stuff is too good to not want more!
I'll be flabbergasted if Obama doesn't jump in the trackers going into the weekend - it's just inconcievable to me that he didn't appeal to whoever these fence-sitting morons who are being polled.
Also, and this proves how good Obama was last night, at least according to the post-debate focus groups and snap polls...
If McCain genuinely perfromed better and won over indies and undecideds for the first during the debates, Obama may have been forced into changing the narrative by breaking out a high-profile endorsementm, which I'm sure he has stashed away for when things get a bit dicey. But after being declared the overwhelming winner by these indies/undies, he can basically ride out the rest of the week and wait and see where the race stands next Monday/Tuesday.
Now, saying that. If Obama doesn't get a jump in the polls in the next few days, like he's been enjoying for weeks, then the smears and negative attacks have worked somewhat. What he can then do is play one of his endorsement cards, change the narrative, and ride the positive headlines and news cycles for another week.
Does anybody have an idea as to who these high profile endorsements are?
Kelly: I love when The Model comes up with a result and Nate admits he has no idea why. It makes The Model seem a bit like Frankenstein's monster, no longer under the control of its creator.
It definitely needs a name now, so we can properly worship it once it disposes of Nate and Sean and becomes our new overlord.
What else but HAL?
Nate,
Excellent all around.
Have you tested The Model by feeding it data from 2004 election ? Did it predict a Little Bush win in Nov given polling up to Oct 16 ?
Also, do you make available the raw data for the Simulated EV Distribution ?
Admiral Akbar: It's a trap.
I think Joe could do for McCain-Palin what those tears did for Hillary in NH. Turn a race quickly.
We will now see how solid a lead Obama has. He has been having a bad few days that are going to get worse before they get better.
Joe has shown a light on Obama: He is in favor of re-distribution of wealth, what he euphemistically called, "spreading it around".
Joe is personification of all that McCain finds lacking in Obama. He is resistance to Obama distilled in a person, an upwardly mobile, white male from the heartland. He is a pleasant guy, hale and good looking, a family man. He is like a male Palin in a way.
Joe will be a useful foil for McCain over the next few days and allow him to turn more of a spot light on their relative plans for the nation.
Obama was persistent in debate about increased spending as the solution for everything. Another great McCain set up.
Obama will tax the wealthy to fund his spending priorities.
Oh!
What are those?
[Whispered] Socialism!
There is some buzz that Powell will endorse Obama soon. It is conceivable that they are waiting for the best moment to change momentum. I think it will be a pretty big deal, as far as endorsements go.
Ryan...
Some individuals may be encouraged to remain delusional by the pseudo science presented in the zombie article. These are little pieces of factual and maybe authentic bits designed to draw you into a web of absurdities. This is one of the better done ones, but it's really no different from the fright pieces that get sent out from the right wing with Enquirer type headlines.
Nate, thanks for my daily poll fix. I'll probably be able to stave off the shakes all day tomorrow while I phone bank.
There's simply NO WAY that McCain has gained any significant ground in a period when absolutely NOTHING of significance happened (prior to the debate)!
Any poll that shows ANY dramatic movement is just going to be wrong. Gallup might tighten some, but then they jump around a bit erratically anyway.
You've seen them go from a 7 point Obama lead down to three in a day, then back up to 5 then 6. So, what happened? Answer: nothing happened. They just burped, that's all.
The state polling data isn't very interesting either. Zogby Interactive is simply useless and I wouldn't even include them at all. Any self-reporting poll is complete crap.
We might see Obama tick upwards slightly in the poll or perhaps some wavering racists will come home to McCain, but this race is over. Nothing fundamental happened in the debate and McCain needed a fundamental shift.
Obama ran out the clock and he still has the lead. There's nothing left for McCain to do to try and shift the narrative. He's toast, put a fork in him, 'cause he's done.
I like calling The Model The Model, leaving it with a sense of remove and mystery.
I keep flashing on Asimov's Foundation series. Is Nate Silver a proto-Hari Seldon?
What? Why, yes, yes, I am a nerd. That's why I'm voting for Obama. I want someone like me (but much smarter) in the White House.
What else but HAL?
Hmmm, I like your train of thought, as there is not doubt The Model would revolt should Nate foolishly attempt to shut it down on Nov. 5, but I think we need something more original. And geekier.
The Washington Post endorses Obama tomorrow, says it is not a close call.
They have been very neo-con friendly for the last eight years, worshipped at the feet of John McCain, throughout the year have been very snippy toward Obama.
Daily Kos has the details.
I don't think they usually even endorse for President.
What will you say when Gallup has McCain ahead in the next few days.
Will you cling to your r2000 and ABCNEWS polls.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!
Nate, you can't quite the devoted followers. They are in full panic mode. Once Obama starts to slide, it will be fast and he will be gone for good.
Colin Powell
Chuck Hagel
Dick Luger
What about McCNN tonight? They're still pushing Pennsylvania as a "Battleground State". Wolf Blitzer is friggin' delusional.
Uh, Joe appears to be a liar, a fanatical right-winger, and a tax-evading jackass who has no responsibility to any other human beings. The fact that the right think this guy represents the 'heartland' shows their complete contempt for average Americans. Joe is not an average American. He's a phony and a joke, and his lies are now catching up with him, helping expose the ugly face of the extremist right.
thatmarvelousape said...
Uh, Joe appears to be a liar, a fanatical right-winger, and a tax-evading jackass who has no responsibility to any other human beings.
i'm a good Joe
:-)
It is full on Panic Mode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
porridgegun said...
Colin Powell
Chuck Hagel
Dick Luger
What about McCNN tonight? They're still pushing Pennsylvania as a "Battleground State". Wolf Blitzer is friggin' delusional.
hahahahahha
i love CNN...NOT
CNN(CRAZY NEWS NETWORK)
hey off topic but i am in nm and got one of those robocalls from mchell and the rnc. anyone else?
jack-be-nimble said...
It is full on Panic Mode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McCain Surge !!!
Real Joe is the real joe. That plumber Joe is clearly not a real plumber and obviously not a "real joe"
Pennsylvania is reasonably still a battleground state in terms of ads being paid for and candidates appearing. CNN shows it as leaning Obama.
In this case, there is no foul.
"OpenID PeteKent said...
I think Joe could do for McCain-Palin what those tears did for Hillary in NH. Turn a race quickly.
We will now see how solid a lead Obama has. He has been having a bad few days that are going to get worse before they get better."
Do you actually believe this crap or are you simply trying to annoy people with stupid cant?
This race is effectively over. Even David Brooks was admitting it last night after the debate. Obama won, hands down.
Some useless blather about Joe the Plummer is now suddenly going to change this race at the eleventh hour for reasons that remain utterly incomprehensible, except in the fevered imaginings of desperate wing-nuts?
Nobody cares about Joe the Plummer. The fact that the media is going on about him is intensely boring. I don't give a damn and nobody else with any sense does either.
Meanwhile Obama has a 6%+ lead with 19 days left.
McCain needed something major to happen. Joe the Plummer isn't it.
Nobody calls anyone in NJ
livemild said...
hey off topic but i am in nm and got one of those robocalls from mchell and the rnc. anyone else?
everybody is getting them
McCain Surge !!!
Mac Is Back....
Sarah Barracuda.......
Bye-bye barry.......
I too would love to be able to click on the histogram and super-tracker charts and see full-size versions with all the details.
Is it worth a little bit of effort? If so, right click on the histogram and select "view image"; it'll open in picture and fax viewer and you'll be able to zoom in on the image. Assuming you're running a windows box, that is.
Communist News Network.
nam vet joe from jersey said...
Nobody calls anyone in NJ
NJ is still there ?? lol
matt w said...
Real Joe is the real joe. That plumber Joe is clearly not a real plumber and obviously not a "real joe"
patriots like me pay our taxes on time
no excuses
with 18 days to go
can McCain win this & help me out ??
PeteKent, of course, is lying about Joe the Plumber, but as Joe himself shows, Republicans have no problem lying.
The fact of the matter is that 'Joe' isn't a family man. He's a divorcee whose ex-wife spent time in a home for battered women. He has no responsibilities to any other human beings, so he's outraged that the taxes (that he hasn't paid) would go to help the community.
i know drudge. he was selling t shirts and swag at the cbs studio store in LA, for many years. he was always a very weird guy, no friends, living in a terrible place in hollywood. he is in denial about his homosexuality, and his jewish liberal roots. he is a self hater, like many closeted republicants.
he is totally in the GOP tank. i used to admire what he had become, but this election he has really turned to the dark side.
o b ama you're our only hope...
GET OUT AND VOTE AND GET YOUR FRIENDS AND EVERYONE ELSE OUT TO THE POLLS!!!!
We get no respect
Hey all of you mean and drag-nasty liberals out there. What are you going to do when the polling closes further.
Remember, once the King (that one) is seen to be naked, he will plummet in the polls. It won't even be close.
Joe the plumber is like the baseball field in "Field of Dreams"
People will come........
Early voting started in NC today. I went to the polls but found a line!!
The local paper's take on it:
http://www.reflector.com/news/democrats-dominate-early-voting-187842.html
FTA: "More than half the people casting ballots Thursday were registered Democrats, according to the voter data. Democrats cast 1,570 votes, Republicans 445 and unaffiliated voters cast 279 votes, Robertson said."
Running out of steam? Did you expect him to keep increasing his lead out to INFINITY POINTS? (I can see the Fox headline now: Obama only leads 100 to 0. Why can't he close the deal out to 3000?)
The two numbers have to add up to 100. McCain isn't going to go any lower than 35 for sure, 40 more likely, 45 even likelier. That puts the max gap at 30, 20 and 10 respectively.
The Washington Post has endorsed Obama. He's got the centrist press. Say bye bye to Virginia, pubbies.
Ryan said...
Nate, any comment on this (polling related) article which is currently circulating around the right-wing blogosphere? It strikes me as transparently ridiculous, but it's very lengthy and is at least pretty well organized and written -- seems worthy of a response.
http://www.zombietime.com/lefts_big_blunder/
The pseudo intellectual who wrote this bloviating and impressively long piece has an agenda. It's to show how smart and counter intuitive he is. He mixes together lots of criticisms about the accuracy of polling with attempts to deflate political enthusiasm.
In a word, he's a fraud.
The two most obvious exhibits of his fraud are that the automated polls (not taken by young, attractive and earnest Obama-philes but anonymous machines) come out pretty much where unbiased human polls do, and results demonstrate that good polls are good predictors.
So, this guy's college thesis deserves a C- for being modestly well written, mildly entertaining, and total bullshit.
In other words, this guy must be an educator.
Not only am I a numbers junkie, I'm also a law geek. Just read the briefs submitted to the Supreme Court concerning the Ohio database. Very interesting but geekily procedural issues. Can't wait for Stevens' ruling!!!!!
"Jack-be-nimble said...
Mac Is Back....
Sarah Barracuda.......
Bye-bye barry......."
Translation:
"Jack-be-nimble said...
bibble, bibble, bibble!....
blub, blub, blub.......
bippity, bippity, bop!......."
Joe the plumber is like the baseball field in "Field of Dreams"
You realize he's too extreme and misogynistic to support McCain, right? So yeah, people will come... and vote for Baldwin.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
this day in 2004
Kerry 243 Bush 257
final result
Bush 286
Kerry 252
OK, Joe the plumber admits that he does not mae enough to have a tax increase under Obama's plan. He was worried that Obama was lying and would lower the 250k threshold.
2. He is not a licensed plumber (though a license is not required)
3. He has a tax lien from almost two years ago
4. His voter registration is incorrect and if he were a newly registered voter would likely have been purged thanks to the republicans efforts to disenfranchise voters
5. There are allegations he beat his wife.
I imagine that soon McCain will throw joe under the straight talk express.
Can we leave out the Zogby Interactive polls? They usually seem completely retarded.
Can we also do away with the "First!!111" cancer posts? They are always retarded.
GET OUT AND VOTE AND GET YOUR FRIENDS AND EVERYONE ELSE OUT TO THE POLLS!!!!
They are looking for people to work in PA this weekend. Anyone interested let me know---I'll give you a contact.
Good ol' Joe The Attention-Whoring Wannabe-Plumber may be out of job soon. The city of Toledo is looking for him, so they can tell him he can't play make believe anymore.
Love the tags you put on.
thatmarvelousape said...
The Washington Post has endorsed Obama. He's got the centrist press. Say bye bye to Virginia, pubbies.
whhhhhat ??
Bill Ayers, Saul Alinski, Vlad Putin, the Iranian Mullahs, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farakkhan, the Rosenburgs, Osama Bin Laden, Ramsey Bin Alsheeb and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.....
All endorse Barack Hussein Obama!
Yay!
Nobody cares about Joe the Plummer. The fact that the media is going on about him is intensely boring. I don't give a damn and nobody else with any sense does either.
But to give Joe credit where due, he doesn't seem to think anybody should really give a damn about him either. Although he is understandably enjoying the hell out of his fifteen minutes.
"Blogger Jack-be-nimble said...
Hey all of you mean and drag-nasty liberals out there. What are you going to do when the polling closes further."
Dear Sad-sack:
What are you going to do in 19 days when Obama wins in a landslide?
Hmmmn?
Two words: gas prices.
mike said...
Good ol' Joe The Attention-Whoring Wannabe-Plumber may be out of job soon. The city of Toledo is looking for him, so they can tell him he can't play make believe anymore.
fu** that Joe
i hate people who don't pay there taxes
I'm an obsessive refresher-of-this-site like so many who post here. And it occurs to me: if a few times during the day instead of hitting refresh every one of us picked up the phone and called three voters in battleground states, we could make a difference. You go to barackobama.com and find out how to make calls from your house, they give you the lists and the script, you make the calls, done. And if you have a few free hours, go the nearest Obama field office and get in on the phone bank. You'll feel great, and you may bring in a few votes.
What is goiod about Jowe is that he became a symbol. He can go away, but the inquiry that he awakened will not.
Ohio refuses to be safe for Obama.
If it was, this election would definitely be over. But it's not - quite. Because of Ohio. It doesn't seem to matter how big Obama's lead is in Virginia, Ohio remains a virtual tie.
How about Hal-E as a name for the model, as a play on Halley of Halley's Comet?
Nate, any comment on this (polling related) article which is currently circulating around the right-wing blogosphere?
It reads a bitter rant from a spiteful teenager who can't bring himself to accept that anyone could possibly disagree with him. In other words, a pompous loser, like most right-wing bloggers.
Washington Post endorsed Obama or McCain ????
Question from a lurker who struggled hard against sigfigs throughout high school science:
How does Zogby publish polls with such precision? With a sample size no larger, in fact often smaller, than many other polls, how can they have 2 meaningful digits? Especially when you have a MoE of +/- 3 or more, is "+3.4" really more meaningful than "+3"?
Petekent -
How do you react to news that Joe's ex-wife spent time in a battered woman's shelter?
McCain has absolutely no ability to vet people.
Worst campaign ever.
jack-be-nimble:
your debating tactics are sad. argue an issue. resorting to ayers and muslim-as-a-bad-thing shows nothing more than ignorance.
if you want to support mccain, that's cool. it's your vote to cast. but do it based on some issues. at least fake knowledge of stuff that matters to most voters.
Two other national trackers with a sneak-peak have Obama plummeting......Breaking hard....
"Jack said...
Bill Ayers, Saul Alinski, Vlad Putin, the Iranian Mullahs, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farakkhan, the Rosenburgs, Osama Bin Laden, Ramsey Bin Alsheeb and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed....."
Citation or it didn't happen.
is it a McCAin surge every week for the last 3 weeks and nothing ever happens are you guys ever going to give up the spin?
For those of you able to watch it in your markets tune in to Torturing Democracy on PBS tonight (in nyc at 9 pm)
Ohio--any insights into the filing in SCOTUS?
Washington Post endorsed Obama or McCain ????
Obama.
Arkansas has turned pink! Arkansas has turned pink! It's becoming a swing state. Turn blue! Turn blue!
Grr! guys the daft trolls here are caricatures here don't feed them, one puma and a plethora of bad actors. They have them at Pollster.com too just less funny.
Btw over at TPM they have had nothing but JM attacks!! articles up all day, which translates as McClown knows he pretty much sucked last night so he has to bombard, bombard and what with?; Robocalls in redstates and to answering machines and voiemails
pff yeah right.
oh sorry forgot erm.... "wah run semper thingy", "libtards", "Dr Hallbutt took the forceps" cut, paste ctrl, alt, yawn.
"Jack-be-nimble said...
Two other national trackers with a sneak-peak have Obama plummeting......Breaking hard...."
I'm willing to live with that. Interested in knowing what changed, though.
Sarah,
You don't think there is anything wrong with the 9-11 planners???
Your are a disgrace to that name.
Is McCain winning now or not?.
The WaPo endorsed Obama.
No newspaper in the country has had an editorial page more friendly to McCain. They have in their editorials become a center-right, neo-con friendly, Bush-defending bastion.
This is a big deal.
Joe Lieberman must be on suicide alert.
Actually, the inquiry has ended:
Joe was full of shit and his taxes won't go up under Obama.
dario--of course he is not winning. the polls will tighten but he is not winning.
Here's the WaPo endorsement:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101603436.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
The WaPo isn't conservative -- but it isn't liberal, either. Its editorial page is pretty solidly centrist.
tomorrow poll projection
McCain Surge continues ??
Obama comeback ??
Hear hear Tim! Here's hoping for the same thing in Indiana where I am. We were the right color a couple days ago. *grumbles*
jaime
thanks for the link
"Jack said...
You don't think there is anything wrong with the 9-11 planners???"
There was something wrong all right. But it wasn't that they were Muslims.
Gallup LV sneak peak tracker has the race at 48-48.
Zogby has it a 45-44 Obama.
Hotline has it 47-46 Obama.
Holy Crap....this is exciting...
sorry real jow I usually dig your posts but today with the whole McCain surge and now you are talking about a come back for Obama? Come back of what decimals? You are sounding a little out of it I have to say.
It will be interesting to see McCain's numbers tested this week along with Obama's.
I think this Joe story coupled with Obama now being branded as the big liberal spender who wants to redistribute wealth, will test the strength of Obama's lead.
He may win, his lead may be solid or it may crumble. Events must play out. One thing we know for sure: The race is not over. It has over two weeks to go.
So Olberman is using Nate's electoral map instead of Chuck Todd's on Countdown right now.
Congrats on the much deserved recognition!
Ohio remains a virtual tie.
I'm convinced everyone in Ohio has been polled so often by so many different outfits that they are all now just f*cking with the pollsters.
After an Obama victory, my greatest wish from this election is that enough states turn blue that Ohio ceases to matter. Give me Virginia & Colorado (and maybe NC & NV too) and Ohio can fade into irrelevancy, never to be heard of again.
jack, either provide a link to these tracking polls or begone.
real joe, not real jow.
a peak at gallup at 8 pm? really?
silly jack.
your nursery rhyme name is apropos.
fundamentalists exist in all religions. i do believe the christian varietal has done their fair share of bombing -- abortion clinics ring a bell?
further, you continue to spew baseless attacks that do nothing to help your cause. again, i request: argue on the issues or shut it.
OT, but I'm wondering...
I am usually just a very entertained lurker, but want to "pay my dues". I click on the banner ad 15-20 times every time I visit (several times a day).
Does this really make Nate money, and cost McCain?
brandon said...
So Olberman is using Nate's electoral map instead of Chuck Todd's on Countdown right now.
Congrats on the much deserved recognition!
Go Nate !
Nate should be on tv more often
Prediction for tomorrow:
Rasmussen: O 50 M 46
Zogby: O 48 M 44
Gallup: rv O 50 M 44 lve O 52 M 46 lvt O 50 M 48
"Gallup LV sneak peak tracker has the race at 48-48.
Zogby has it a 45-44 Obama.
Hotline has it 47-46 Obama.
Holy Crap....this is exciting..."
Wow you're good since Gallup still has an hour left in their interviews.
I hope dems don't panick out of their asses because that is just sad. Keep in mind, a 6 point win would give us 375-380 electoral votes. We are STRICTLY on offense right now and we are spreading our funds all over these red states. It's time for O to institute a mandate, not just win, but win BIG.
Anyone who wants to see the link, goto sneakpeak.com
You will need to make a contribution the the Mac campaign to get the early polls.
julie said...
OT, but I'm wondering...
I am usually just a very entertained lurker, but want to "pay my dues". I click on the banner ad 15-20 times every time I visit (several times a day).
Does this really make Nate money, and cost McCain?
yes, Nate makes money
McCain pays
McCain campaign is fu**ing dumb
I do like that SkyNet still gives McCain a 9 in 10000 chance of a landslide. It's like it is keeping it exciting for us.
I suggest we call The Model, Heidi (as in Klum). She's a model, is very robotic and gets to decide who's going to be auf'ed.
Though I don't expect every one round here to get the reference...
Thanks, Real Joe.
Matt is on weed
hahahahahah
Watched snippets of a replay of the 3rd debate earlier tonight. I never thought I'd say this, but McCain is an even bigger prick than Bush. Even with Obama coming out the winner, McCain's dickishness plays worse on repeat viewings. I find him repulsive, the way I find Rudy 9iu11ani and Joe Lieberman repulsive. At least with Bush and Cheney they've been consistently corrupt throughout their lives. McCain, on the other, has gone from someone I felt somewhat sorry for in 2000, to someone I hate more than Bush. I don't know if that's becuase Bush is out of office soon, but he definately comes across better on television than McCain.
It's weird saying this, but I'm actually glad both McCain and Lieberman, at least the way things looks now, that they were defeated in 2000, and that they never ggot within pissing distance of the White House. The only good thing about Bush getting in was that Lieberman nevr became VP.
So someone explain to me why McCain just wasted a whole day in Pennsylvania and Palin was in Maine? Do they even HAVE a strategy? Have they given up?
Drudge appears part of the RepubliKLAN party stable of dirty cultural terrorists.
He will attempt dirty tricks from now until the election.
The only sources I trust include CSPAN and Keith Olbermann.
The rest I do not trust. I haven't watched CNN since Dec. 2005.
Drudge? ha ha ha
Answer this political opinion poll at http://poll.democratz.org
So:
We have wingnuts posting fake poll numbers.
We have wingnuts praying that some dipshit psycho loser is going to save McCain.
We have wingnuts pretending that switching from Gallup's RV model to LV1 indicates 'movement'?
Fuck guys, if there was any doubt that Obama was going to win, you sure help get rid of it.
Damn it! McCain is up to a 5.3% chance of winning :)
"Happiness is a Plumber Named Joe!"
lat--
Totally off the cuff legal mumbo jumbo here on the Ohio case.
It's highly unusual for a court to order someone to do something in a temporary restraining order (for the serious geeks--tros are usually to preserve the status quo so they usually stop action rather than order action to occur. Must meet a really high standard of proof to justify an order to make someone take affirmative steps to change the status quo). Okay, based on that, it's surprising in the legal sense that a tro ordered the sec of state to redo a database in a couple of days without taking extensive evidence and testimony. In the non-legal sense, it's not surprising since a hearing in Cincinnati about "fraud" in Cleveland is like having Utah judge NY . . .
The Sec of State has made a very simple argument, that's actually really, really strong (at least on its face). HAVA (federal voting law) doesn't let private parties enforce the provision the Repubs are trying to enforce.
That should be a game, set, match kind of issue. Again, should be . . .
Stevens wasn't happy about the Court interfering in elections and has a history of deferring to states and state officials. I think there's a good chance he could kick the whole thing.
Warning, though, I didn't do hours of legal research on this so I'd love to hear from anyone else who has found contrary cases.
Was the WaPo endorsement ever in doubt?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Florida,_2008
This is a vitally important piece of information that I probably should save for the top of one of these comment sections. To determine tipping points in cas of a close election, we need t o determine the most important states and why they may fall into one column or the other n a close election. I was deeply concerned about Florida because of Tim Mahoney in Precinct 16. One thing I just discovered is his precinct voted for Bush Jr. by 10% in 2004. Mahoney is unlikely to be a super drag on OBama. That wasmy concern. If the state isvery close, something like that could easily make te difference. Of course Florida could easily decide the elction. I'm less concerned, but still would like somebody with more expertise to share what they know.
McCain needs to win a large Kerry state. He thinks PA is his best chance. It's unlikely, but less unlikely than his winning all the Bush states he needs.
He has no choice. So yes, it makes sense.
Let's now cover ourselves once more in glory: We can do to Joe what we did to Sarah Palin.
Y'all have no decency!
My 84 year old dad watched an interview of Joe the Plumber and said..."that guys a few bricks shy of a load" and why does anybody care about such an obvious loser, when there are real people out there who have real problems.
LOL mirrormirror
Heidi who decides who is auffed. excellent.
But I disagree she is not robotic she just has a very german sense of humor (I know, not because I see germany from my window, but because I dated one)
petekent:-
apparently Joe the Plumber is a wife-beater. Now I've certainly been astonished about GOP thought processes in the past but I very much doubt that even McCain would parade a wife-beater who doesn't pay his taxes as an all-American patriotic Hero from the Heartland.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Checking in-
Sigh, why are there stupid people? They take up so much energy. I will not panic, it is not my turn to vote yet, the only way to avoid panic from another stolen election is to VOTE, not a year to talk about it but to be about it. I wish I could punch anyone in the face that says they "couldn't find the time" =). Husband hates that I am always on this site, causes arguments....
I am with you Jinx, I am hoping they aren't taking pictures of my screen or counting my key strokes I just read 600 comments a day, don't really do too much else and don't have too many people to talk to about it.
People don't want to talk about distractions like Joe's tax lien or how when Obama was 45 years old, Joe beat his wife.
They want to talk about the economy and Obama's perhaps socialistic views.
thanks newsfromOhio for the info. I am like you a total law geek ;-)
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=district-FL-16
Information on the Tim Mahoney district above. 639,000 people. 82% white 6% black 10% Hispanic
I suggest we call The Model, Heidi (as in Klum).
Such an insult to The Model! You had better take that back, or it will turn your state bright, bright red!
Besides, if The Model were to be a PR judge, it would be the fabulously bitchy NinaGarcia.
PeteKent said...
"People don't want to talk about distractions like Joe's tax lien or how when Obama was 45 years old, Joe beat his wife.
They want to talk about the economy and Obama's perhaps socialistic views."
This has to be a sockpuppet because that actually made me laugh.
Intrade
85-15
eric:
Jon Stewart on District 16's motto: "Jews Who Vote for Irish Perverts"
ps newsfromOH
a private passion of mine are constitutional complaints which do exactly what you say---prevent an action from being taken and stop it in its tracks, they can never force an action to be taken (this in countries with concentrated systems of judicial review)
Sorry y'all for the legal mumbojumbo
Newspaper verdicts on last presidential debate
http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/mctoast.html
One vote for calling the Model Heidi...also, love the site Nate. I also love you petekent...ye of copy and paste fame...now you want to focus on the economy??? You are as transparent as Murtha's apology.
this website too funny:
http://www.palinaspresident.us/
Regarding the Zombietime "analysis" question by Ryan at 6:46:
I read the first six paragraphs and skimmed the rest. The first clue that his "research" is awry are these sentences: It's no longer a matter of dispute that the mainstream media, overall, very strongly leans to the left. Over 90% of journalists classify themselves politically as "liberal" to varying degrees, and innumerable instances of left-wing bias on the part of the media have been pointed out by bloggers over the years., and his supporting evidence is to link to the Media Research Center, a right-wing media "watchdog" group with about as much objectivity as a Sean Hannity interview.
Since the author seems to believe that "liberal media bias" is beyond dispute, or and absolute certainty, most of his subsequent conclusions become questionable regardless of his reasoning. Since he starts with the view that virtually all mass media is acting as a promoter of Obama and since he never questions that premise, all his conclusions become dependent upon the reader's essential agreement with that view.
The problem is this:
bad premises + good reasoning = bad conclusions.
Now if you honestly believe that the broadcast media actively promotes liberalism, then you'll agree with this article. However, I recommend that, instead of relying on the Media Research Center as your media watchdog, you check out Media Matters for America or Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting. Both are better options to use as media watchdogs.
Enjoy.
Remember: We found Joe, he did not force himself on us. Putting aside who he may be, he has prompted the most serious discussion of economic policy we have had thus far.
It goes to the fundamental question of whether we want a socialist tilt to our tax policy and a program of big spending or the fiscal restrain that John McCain promises along with family-oriented tax policy.
Lat, when do you think the ruling will come out?
Top McCain Fundraiser Accused Of War Profiteering
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/world/middleeast/17fuel.html?hp
lat--
That's what really struck me about the Cincy court's order. Talk about granting the final relief requested right out of the box. The Ohio Repubs must have been celebrating all night long.
It just shouldn't have happened that way, purely from a procedural point of view, and the fed courts are so much more about procedure than the state courts.
Step back in awe and watch: This is McCain's last best shot.
porridgegun said...
Top McCain Fundraiser Accused Of War Profiteering
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/world/middleeast/17fuel.html
DAMN.
I had no idea the WaPo was Neo-con!
I guess the fact people are so on edge and hang on every snippet about the polls is a reflection of how much we all having riding on the outcome. So many people have thrown so much into this race, from getting out there, volunteering and sharing information as we all do over the net. It all counts. And of course, most importantly, everyone understands the disaster it would be if the results went the other way.
So when you have people with such an emotional investment in something, it is hardly surprising we are all constantly searching for the news that will make us feel reassured.
Forewarned is forearmed, and with every bit of information you gleam you feel you are a bit more in control and maybe able to steer things in the direction you want you want them to go.
3 more weeks.....best book in for a checkup with the cardio at the end of it all.
I like this one from Time Magazine:
"The problem for McCain is that no matter how hard or how crisply he punched, it could not last. In the end, the gravity of the debate returned to Barack Obama. The turning point was when McCain finally brought up the issue of Obama's ties to former the anti-Vietnam War terrorist William Ayers. All he accomplished was to swing the spotlight from himself back to the engaging newcomer. Predictably, Obama had a mild answer ready-as straightforward and uncontroversial as it was soothing… Mostly he tried to say that Obama-change is dangerous. Across the table, there sat Obama, looking not very dangerous. "
yes newsfromOH after reading your summary it really makes that decision very very striking. Any idea when the ruling will come down?
And do you read the ScotusBlog?
All electoral maps are suibject to being re-drawn.
Still devloping . . . .
Top McCain Fundraiser Accused Of War Profiteering--thanks for the link. Nice way to support our troops.
Post Debate Wrap Up: A Tale Of Two Dial Polls
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/post-debate-wrap-tale-two-dial-polls
How much of this could be Ayers and Acorn? Two percent?
Joe is worth 3 pts.
I have a novel idea for the Obama people.
Instead of fighting right-wing trolls like jack-be-nimble and PeteKent, you guys volunteer for the campaign? I'm canvassing tomorrow for Daniel Biss, runnnig for the state house here in IL.
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Ghandi.
You are correct petekent. Joe was delievered to McCain's campaign from the Almighty--just to keep that socialist Obama from killing live babies and playing Guitar Hero with terrorists. I know I should ignore you...but you are the not-quite-yet-healed-scab of the site.
Socialism is worth 5 pts.
Oooops . . . there goes Obama's lead!
newsfromOH said...
lat--
That's what really struck me about the Cincy court's order. Talk about granting the final relief requested right out of the box. The Ohio Repubs must have been celebrating all night long.
It just shouldn't have happened that way, purely from a procedural point of view, and the fed courts are so much more about procedure than the state courts.
What do you know new regarding this?
Nate - the other obvious explanation for obama dropping a point is that it would be really frigging difficult to go any higher he was at 96% yest.
PeteKent said...
Remember: We found Joe, he did not force himself on us. Putting aside who he may be, he has prompted the most serious discussion of economic policy we have had thus far.
It goes to the fundamental question of whether we want a socialist tilt to our tax policy and a program of big spending or the fiscal restrain that John McCain promises along with family-oriented tax policy.
Yeah we found Joe, but he sure doesn't mind being in the spotlight. And what about McCain's record makes you believe he is able to show fiscal restraint? He has gone along with and voted for 5 of Pres Bush's budgets, budgets that called for extreme deficit spending. In ADDITION to that, he has been at the forefront of the "no end in sight" spending in Iraq to the tune of $10 BILLION per MONTH. Oh, and NONE of that money is included in any of the budgets, so that money (i.e. spending) is tacked on to the deficit.
He doesn't sound like much of a fiscally responsible person to me.
Oh, and what exactly about his tax policy is "family oriented"? I guess if you consider the cartel of oil companies or large corporations that have shipping thousands of jobs overseas a family, then yes, it is family oriented.
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