10.13.2008

Today's Polls, 10/13

It's hard to tell these days whether the McCain campaign is coming or going; they have thus far defied our prediction that they would revert to a kinder, gentler tone. But the polls continue to break in pretty much just one direction, and it isn't in Senator McCain's.



Both Rasmussen and SurveyUSA released a ton of polling today, and it is almost uniformly favorable for Barack Obama. All you really need to know about the Rasmussen polling is that the five state they now define as battlegrounds -- Ohio, Florida, Missouri, North Carolina, and Virginia -- went to George Bush by an average of 7 points in 2004. Today, Rasmussen has Obama ahead in four of the five (including his first lead ever in a Rasmussen poll of Ohio), and tied in the other (North Carolina).

SurveyUSA, meanwhile, shows Obama making big gains in Missouri, and (less interestingly) in Oregon, New Jersey and New York. Overall, our model looks at the polls that were in the field yesterday -- these include all of the Rasmussen and SurveyUSA polls that we just mentioned -- and thinks it was his second-strongest individual polling day of the year, trailing only one day in early February.

Obama even holds the lead in a Fargo Forum poll of North Dakota, a state which his campaign abandoned some weeks ago. Our model is not yet ready to call North Dakota a toss-up -- we have no context to evaluate the Forum's poll, since this is the first survey they have released all year, and September polling had shown a double-digit lead for McCain in the state. Still, along with West Virginia, Montana, and the 2nd Congessional District in Nebraska, the Peace Garden State represents another place that Obama could win on a very good Election Night. Winning all of those plus all of the more traditional battleground states would total 387 electoral votes, which would better Bill Clinton's figure of 379 in 1996.

The tracking polls, at least, did move on balance toward McCain today. However, they remain strong for Obama, and there is no reason to give special reverence to them. The one-off national polls deserve consideration too, and both ABC/Post and GQR/Democracy Corps give Obama a 10-point lead, as of course do the state polls. Our model considers the trackers along with everything else, and does not yet perceive any cessation in Obama's momentum.

There is a little bit of tracking poll housekeeping, however. Gallup is now listing likely voter results in addition to registered voter results. Our policy since the first debate has been to use the likely voter model when we have the choice, and so that's what we will do from here forward. However, Gallup provides two separate likely voter models: "Likely Voters I", which favors Obama by 7 points, is based on "current voting intentions and past voting behavior"; "Likely Voters II", which goes to Obama by 10, is based on "current voting intentions" only.

I understand that Gallup wants to cover its butt; this is a difficult election to evaluate. With that said, I'd wish they'd tell me which of their likely voter models they think is superior and stick with it.

If they're going to ask me to make a choice, then I'm going to go ahead and make one, and that is with the "Likely Voters II" model, as "Likely Voters I" would seem to entirely strip out the registration gains that Obama and the Democrats have made over the past four years. In addition, the fact that there is a massive Democratic advantage in enthusiasm makes me skeptical of any likely voter model that cuts 3 points out of the Democratic margin. Because of the way that our model handles national polls, neither decision actually advantages Obama or McCain any, but I do think that "Likely Voters II" is liable to be a more accurate reflection of the electorate.

315 comments

Kid G said...

I'm still worried about NH. The Bradley is strong with that one.

Darkduke77 said...

The market hasn't bounced back guys.

It just went up.

Not saying it could got -2000 tomorrow.

Also Banks were closed today.

The Market hasn't gotten better and even if it did.Your house just wouldn't magically be without foreclosure on it.

You wouldn't have a Fantastic loan with low low interest rate

Gas wouldn't go to a buck a gallon.

Sorry guys the market is just the market.

Not the credit market.

Stephen said...

Poll Wishlist:
AR, TX, ND, SD, MT, WV, TN, KY, SC, and IN.

Andy JS said...

I think we could be about see a poll somewhere soon giving Obama a lead in Georgia. I don't think he's going to win Georgia, but I would be surprised if there aren't one or two polls showing Obama slightly ahead in the next 3 weeks.

Why aren't there more polls in states like Nevada and Indiana?

Akoolromeo said...

I looked up the Berg suit and noticed he was on Coast to Coast with George Noori. I think that tells you all you need to know about the credibility of the show. While I occasionally listen to that show, I always suspected it was a show based on hoxes, and now I know it is.

Troy said...

Is there any way to find out the min and max number of EV's Obama gets from Nate's simulations?

Also, it would be nice if half the super tracker would be erased. What use is anything before July? Or maybe a different colored dot for today.

One$Earned said...

To Vote for a conservative is by definition, no change. To conserve, To maintain status quo, To Save.

And save what, save what has always been.


For me, I want change, I do not want to preserve the policies of the last eight years. In fact, in my voting life, 20 of the past 28 years has preserved that conservative philosophy.

prathap said...

well it doesnt need a crystal skull though, all that Mr.Berg has stated is produce the birth cert and i will drop the case, why not just produce it and get over with it already! So dont u think it is going fuel more fire u keep hiding it. What if BO gets 350+ and then it turns out he is not eligible ?

Nick said...

"I don't mind the comparison at all, and I am reading into the statement, but Clinton would have never gotten to that number of EVs without Perot (nor would Clinton have won in '92 without Perot on the ticket)."

I dunno. Exit polls in both '92 and '96 showed Perot bleeding support equally from Bush/Dole and Clinton.

thatmarvelousape said...

prathap can't reference a single credible news source: just the same circle jerk of rabidly anti-Obama blogs who cite eachother's fiction writing as if they were facts. His link leads to nothing but delusional rambling.

Matt W said...

A nation that lives on credit is not a nation with strong economic fundamentals.
Stagnant wage growth
Stagnant job growth
Massive misallocation of capital in suburban housing
Reliance on cheap foriegn energy
Impending environmental catastrophies
Complete breakdown in the financial markets
Skyrocketing national and consumer debt

The number of tremendous "fundamental" problems we face NOW is staggering.
I trust that Obama is the best person to lead our nation forward. I desperately hope that he does not disappoint. This is going to be an incredible challenge.

Reporter said...

...I don't think it's about 'Republicans' or 'Democrats' these days except for the few extremists we've seen at McCain's hate rallies...instead I think it's about being 'Americans' first as Obama has always said...we are all Americans and Obama is the only 'American' I see out of the two. Heck, I heard McCain was born in Panama, at least Obama was born in this great country. That's why our Republican family is jumping ship. Looks like it'll take at least a decade before the Republican Party has any significant presence in the White House after this election.

blue november said...

No comments from «He» or «Real Joe» today? This site is the best, but it's a bit less fun without them.

gougef said...

Off topic:

Paid $2.88 for gas today in NE TN.

How about elsewhere?

thatmarvelousape said...

prathap,

The birth certificate has been produced and you guys run further down the rabbit hole of delusional conspiracy theories, attacking anyone who presents the facts as being in on some evil conspiracy. It's really sad that there are people like you who can't accept reality.

Marc said...

@Nate:

Why not use both of Gallup's LV model and treat it as two independent polls?

prairiecomm said...

hurn0003, thatmarvelousape - now be nice, even if he's a troll

prairiecomm said...

dick morris

divine intervention

; D

newsfromOH said...

@gougef

Gas was 2.75 here in Cleveland

hurn0003 said...

blue november said...

"No comments from «He» or «Real Joe» today? This site is the best, but it's a bit less fun without them."

He is awful and Real Joe is seriously considering voting for Obama.

prairiecomm said...

say, where's real joe tonight?

One$Earned said...

@ blue, Real Joe & He deserve some time away....

But I agree, more so Real Joe than He however.

Real Joe...is thoughtful, he actually thinks, although not long winded.

lol

Simon said...

Has anybody else seen this about Bristol Palin's baby-daddy's first (I think?) interview?

hurn0003 said...

prairiecomm said...

"hurn0003, thatmarvelousape - now be nice, even if he's a troll"

Being nice only encourages them, let them know they are lamentable.

Matt W said...

gougef,
I paid the equivalent of $2.09 !!!
Nice to live with fuel subsidies.

newsfromOH said...

Mr. McCain said Mr. Ayers and his wife, Bernadine Dorhn, both founders of the Weather Underground, “want to still destroy America.”

Yep, educating kids is a sure way to "destroy America." Better they're like Palin's soon-to-be-high-school-drop-out-son-in-law, huh?

thatmarvelousape said...

"hurn0003, thatmarvelousape - now be nice, even if he's a troll"

No, he's a malicious piece of shit who represents the absolute lowest form of political life: an astroturfing smear puddler. People like him are a cancer on society.

Another Mike said...

Check this for facts
http://texashillblog.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/federal-judge-orders-obama-to-produce-his-birth-certificate/


The "order" linked to in this site is unsigned. It is the proposed order submitted by Berg in conjunction with his response to Obama's Motion to Dismiss the lawsuit. You're either a troll or have no understanding of the legal process.

sfergus483 said...

Just saw an Obama ad running in the evening (amid fire coverage) on a local LA station (not network/independent).

Not sure why - I guess they want to push turnout (not that there is much competitive out here except for Prop 8) and push up the national margin.

Still, weird. They could be flooding North Dakota with what one spot costs here (LA TV market is 12 million + people).

Alyssa said...

@brittany

You're right. Larger cities (e.g. SLC UT) are different. But the chance that those states flip even in a landslide is not likely.
The flip side is equivalent to saying that MA would go red in a republican landslide... with Boston being a conservative large city.

Paul said...

Akoolromeo said...
"... but I will be surprise if Obama wins Florida. The polls seems to be split. There seem to be as many polls that have McCain ahead, as Obama."

Really? What gives you that impression? RCP Florida polls ... one poll in the last two weeks showed McCain ahead, 10 for Obama.

thatmarvelousape said...

"You're either a troll or have no understanding of the legal process."

Why not both?

Matt W said...

sfergus,
Glad to hear it. I want Obama to pad his popular vote totals. I think a lot of his mandate to solve the serious problems we face will come from both the pop vote and EC majorities he is able to put together.

prathap said...

well so much for seeking truth, i still reiterate again, why does not his confident campaign just a vault copy and get over with it. The problem comes when there is none ! BO himself is a constitutional lawyer, so there is something which prevents him from going public. Rem the 'tabloid trash' from john edwards ? sounds similar to me.

Pierre said...

prathap:

I will not pick apart that idiotic blog post you linked to but I have a serious question for you:

OK, if Obama did have a forged birth certificate from Hawaii, WHY HASN'T THE STATE OF HAWAII SAID ANYTHING???

bah!

Mylegacy said...

A quick word on where Obama was born.

When the PUMA's went after him they looked into his birth. They FOUND his birth announcement in the paper in Hawaii. IF, Obama is a foreigner the plot was started WHEN HE WAS BORN - in Hawaii!

Pierre said...

Also, regardless of WHERE he was born, he would have been a citizen of the United States because his mother was a citizen.

Another Mike said...

well it doesnt need a crystal skull though, all that Mr.Berg has stated is produce the birth cert and i will drop the case, why not just produce it and get over with it already!

That's BS. Have you seen Berg's request for production of documents? It's in now way limited to Obama's birth certificate, but rather seeks all sorts of personal documents. It's a blatant fishing expedition for anything that can be used to politically hurt Obama.

Matt W said...

The conversation about Obama's Birth certificate is really boring me. Can we all move on please.

Pierre said...

Redemodent:

Of course, how silly of me... mm... Kool-Aid...

fred said...

Obama's birthdertificate? Come on, get over yourself. He moved alot, I highly doubt anything is forged, but I also doubt he has the original.

The best news for Obama today is Charlie Chriss, Bill Kritol, and repubs up for election either turning away from McCain or to Obama.

Alyssa said...

@thatmarvelousape


To be fair, BOTH sides have conspiracy theories.


I paid $3.69 today in NYC :( But I don't have to drive to work or very much. So I guess that sorta evens out then.

thisniss said...

Next up...

South Carolina?

Redemodent said...
This post has been removed by the author.
dominar-action said...

Those of you worried about Obama in VA: He's been campaigning here consistently: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/barack-obama/states/va/

And when he's not here, we have Biden, etc. Bill C. was here just yesterday and today, I believe.

And Obama/Biden TV & radio ads are much more prevalent than McCain's.

And I've received 3 phone calls from Obama canvassers in the past couple of weeks vs. 0 "touches" from McCain's peeps.

fred said...

$2.91 in DE, but lets not talk gas. You want gas prices? go to www.gasbuddy.com and you can get it by county across the whole U.S. in a nice heat map.

prathap said...

well the law in hawaii states they shouldn't disclose private records, and also the paper announcement is put up later by grand parents just in case their grandson arrived from kenya duh@, well look i am not in any way saying he is bad or something, infact palin makes me angry but why run on forged stuff, why didnt he disclose it earlier ? nobody can get away from truth, his campaign will be in big trouble for sure soon

Another Mike said...

Why not both?
-------------
Very true. I would like to amend my remarks:

You're either a troll and/or have no understanding of the legal process.

fred said...

To the guy with the sign - I want to find the Ohio Christians FOR baby-murdering muslims - those guys are the ones to have a beer with!

prairiecomm said...

the plot was started WHEN HE WAS BORN

actually, the plot began before he was born, didn't you know that?


:-D

newsfromOH said...

@prathap

Because he HAS produced an official copy of it, numerous times. . . But new crazies pop up everyday and unless THEY see it, a grand conspiracy must be at play. He's got bigger things to worry about than fly shit like this.

On the other hand, we can't even get an open press conference with Palin . . .

Alyssa said...

Charlie Christ Fred.

fred said...

Come on ! I want both coasts blue! Let's trap thoise red states in the middle!

Another Mike said...

and also the paper announcement is put up later by grand parents just in case their grandson arrived from kenya duh@,

You're making as much sense here as a Palin interview.

fred said...

Wow!

Looks like the house Palin is living in may have beenn built by the same contractor that built the $12 million sports complex in Wasilla. If true, this is HUGE! This could make Ted Stevens look like a wimpy dude, I mean, Stevens only got his house renovated for free - PALIN GOT A WHOLE NEW HOUSE!

Mark Hussein in VA said...

Brittany,

If you'll read it again, I confined my comments on racism and xenophobia to the rural areas. Lawton, OKC, and Norman are certainly not in line with that thinking (Tulsa is, however, somewhere between; it did, after all, produce Oral Roberts).

As to Native Americans, I did not forget them. However, IIRC, the NA population of Oklahoma is somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000. That makes them less than 10% of the overall population. Oklahoma is overwhelmingly white.

FWIW, I grew up in Norman and spent the better part of my life there and OKC. I'm very fond of central OK and a graduate of OU. That said, I find OK's overbearing Christian culture and its political leanings difficult to tolerate. If all of OK was like Norman, OKC, and Lawton, it would be a big improvement, IMO.

Alyssa said...

Oooh gasbuddy rules. Thanks Fred!

fred said...

alyssa,

Sorry, typo.

prathap said...

guys who feel offended, let me say one thing, you would remember me when this issue blows up and will be on every msm possible. Just remember this day and me. Mr.Berg has clearly stated he will not let it go and he will stop the electoral vote count on BO. gud luck guys

Adam said...

Prathap, you're very obviously either a Republican troll, or horribly ignorant.

LISTEN.

They *have* produced his original birth certificate. Reporters have seen it. The courts have seen it. Officials know where it is (Chicago HQ), and it has been verified by independent sources. Trials move very slowly, and just because a lawsuit is clearly ridiculous doesn't mean it gets immediately dismissed.

There was a birth announcement printed in the Honolulu paper the *day* he was born. If you *really* want to argue that that was a fraud perpetrated by his grandparents in the 1 in 100 million case that said multi-racial child wanted to run for president someday (even though he was a citizen anyway)...

Then you're a completely, utterly ignorant buffoon. I'm sorry, but you are. The evidence is utterly overwhelming. This case is *clearly* utterly ridiculous to anyone with any hint of intelligence.

Please stop posting drivel about it unless you can come up with any concrete evidence at all that everything we've seen and know is a fraud. It clearly isn't. Show your evidence, or shut up and get off this board.

fred said...

Wayne Barrett is accusing Palin of building her house from graft, from the guys she selected to build the sports complex in Wasilla.

Get this story out!

http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-10-08/news/the-book-of-sarah/

prathap said...

ok i will come back to a post 2m with truckload of evidence. Also the independent sources you are saying are not relevant as factcheck or fightthesmears which have been proven. I will be back ~ Arnie

politicalcynic said...

To thatmarvelousape:

The Israeli insider group hid Obama's birth certificate IN the crystal skull. They then killed themselves to keep the secret, but not before giving a map to the Illuminati. The Illuminati hid the map, but left clues for the rest of us in old Masonic symbols.

As I understand it, the "great prophecy of the John" states that at the end of days, Nicholas Cage will discover from the Masonic symbols that there is a message in invisible ink on the back of the Magna Carta. That message will lead him via several devious routes to a Van Gogh painting that has directions to the map. Mr. Cage will then get the map (after being shot at and blowing up various cars and innocent buildings), and give it to the great John.

The great John will then locate the skull and Obama's Kenyan birth certificate, which are hidden deep in the jungles of Viet-Nam. After showing us the birth certificate, the great John will pass on to his higher reward, leaving the not-quite-so-great Sarah to lead those who saw the "McCain light of truth" to a Palinesque Christian theocracy, where milk an honey will flow. Meanwhile, the the rest of us burn in the eternal damnation of a secular government while driving red sport cars.

Oh, wait, never mind. I should NEVER watch National Treasure while writing...

Jay said...

Long time reader, second time poster - great work as always Nate, and enjoyable banter commenters.

Let's just remember not to get too complacent. I mean, the Browns are beating the Giants right now!!

bugstomper said...

prathap,

The factcheck.org page on the birth certificate issue is more complete than the Fight the Smears link. You would have to believe that they are making up a lot more than is reasonable to think that what they have is a forgery.

Also, it is reasonable for Obama to seek to have the lawsuit dismissed for lack of standing, as was the lawsuit against McCain that similarly tried to get him for being born in Panama Canal Zone. That is a much better dispostion for the case then simply producing the birth certificate and leaving the precedent than any of millions of people can demand documents from anyone running for President.

Jaime said...

Tomorrow's Zogby is on Drudge... it's Obama 49-43. Nice.

prairiecomm said...

ps prathap, you may not realize that children of american citizens are citizens, even if not born in the us --- witness mcCain, who was born in panama.


so it's moot

Adam said...

Zogby and Drudge...a match made in heaven.

someperson718 said...

Obama can hit 380 and beat Bill Clinton's numbers if he holds all the states he is ahead in now, and captures WV to boot (and IN). If he doesn't this time he very well may do it the next with GA, ND,SD,MT,TX,and AZ all shading more blue as the days pass by.

fred said...

TX and AL are going red. If those go blue the repub chairman and McCain will go over nigara falls in a barrel. No freakin' way.

Josh said...

Great news (re: polls) but it's no time to let up. The McCain campaign will be throwing slime at Obama until election day: You Can Campaign For Barack Obama!. Obama's website is awesome.

prairiecomm said...

politicalcynic said...


oh wonderful -


thanks!

PJ McIlvaine said...

Re David Frum on Rachel Maddow: she got bushwhacked by his comments, but she handled it very well. What a douche. I don't think we'll be seeing him on that show again.

Ed M. said...

Let's not forget the majority of voters cast a ballot for a conservative (Perot + Dole) and Clinton only got %42+/- of the national vote.

That's not so clear. In exit polls Perot voters split pretty evenly between Perot and Clinton. This is an ancient shiboleth, and it doesn't mean anything now, but it's bullshit.

Clinton would have won without Perot.

someperson718 said...

Look at that EVD, Either McCain or his campaign is flatlining. SOMEONE GET EMS!

Subterranean said...

If anyone needs any more evidence that Obama has gotten in the GOP's heads, try this on for size, courtesy of Marc Ambinder:

Oil industry lobbyist and McCain spokesperson Nancy Pfotenhauer said today that Bill Kristol has been suckered by the "Obama campaign's party line".

BILL KRISTOL.

jarthurs said...

prathap-

It's still unimportant where he was born. Since his mother was an American citizen he is also a Natural born citizen and as such, eligible for the presidency.

chrisready said...

I'm a bit late to the party, but I thought I'd mention that I updated my Flick slideshow of the charts to date.

Also, I thought I'd mention that you can view the entire Five Thirty-Eight trends set as well.

Clarissa said...

So LV I vs LV II. I tend to suspect that the raw sampling of most of the tracking polls should be roughly equivalent (ie random samples of the same electorate should on average get results that are within the margin of error of eachother). Then we get the age/race/gender/party (not all the tracking polls adjust by all of those so I get annoyed when some criticize Hotline for changing its party weighting- it didn't it had a sample that caught a different distribution and its reporting what it caught not adjusting it to confirm to predetermined averages) adjustments based on national demographics and then the LV screens. But different criteria for LV screens can cause a difference with the exact same data of at least 3 points as todays Gallup showed.

I suspect that most of the tracking polls have been using a LV model much closer to LV I than LV II. So it would make sense that Rasmussens, Battleground, Zogby would be experiencing similar dips as we are seeing with LV II to LV I but without the transparency and raw RV data that we are getting with gallup. In fact I suspect that the only tracking poll whose LV projection is close to LV II is Kos/R2K, who have consistantly been better than others for Obama. It has also been criticized for having "too many Dems", "too many blacks", "too many young people" and "too many hispanics". I think LV II also has "too many" of the exact same groups and if we can get turnout to look like the LV II model Obama wins without question.

LAT said...

so for those who keep equating the DOW o market rally with an end to the crisis here is evidence of why this is not the case. In the UK---the heroes who actually saved the world financial system and lead the way---the housing market is experiencing a 30 year low and the crisis is deepening even if the stocks are rallying with the capitalization. A good article from Bloomberg on this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZX0a3R.mszI&refer=home

ic170 said...

Piffle and poppycock you lickspittle you, everyone knows Obi Wan Obama is McCain's son and Princess Hillary is his sister, during The Clone Wars they were separated after their mother [Bea Arthur, I think] died so as to be safe from the clutches of the Empire..

Also Steve Schmidt is Dr Evil right?

no feeda da trolls!

erin beth said...

As an Oklahoman, I would be surprised if our polling numbers here were any closer. Political conversations with friends reveal most people here only watch Fox news. Imagine fighting with someone who thinks that Factcheck is a biased source of liberal news, intent on hiding factual Republican discoveries! This happened to me last week. Nothing here surprises me anymore.

And I'm guessing most of the presidential polling is incidental to checking up on the Senate race between Rice and Inhofe?

DCM in FL said...

NATE

on the previous thread I had 'predicted' that you would psot this Polling Update @ 8 PM

damm man, you bet my projection by 5 minutes tonight !

another fine polling day for BHO

yet another terrible day of results for the GOPers who clearly have the DEMs right where they want them...

or maybe not so much with just 21 days to go

but don't tell that to John McCain & Sarah Palin

more important is that there are less than 100 days left before BUSH is booted from the White House - then EVERYONE will party like it is 1999 again

Madre said...

Oklahoma is indeed the reddest red state, but still, this afternoon as I was driving through a white/hispanic working class neighbrhood in OKC I saw an Obama/Biden sign in almost every yard and only 1 McCain/Failin. One yard even had some large handwritten signs up; one said 'Shame on You, John McCain!" and the other said, "Sarah Palin--Thanks, but No Thanks!" so please don't be mean to us 32%. We're doing the best we can. ;)

fred said...

erin beth-

I feel for you, I just sold my house in MO and am moving to DE because of the insane bias out there. Red state folks are afraid of the world. Afraid of black people. Afraid God will smote them if they think. Afraid of their own shadow. This is why the politics of fear works, the way out of the circular death spiral that is an evangelical is education, education teaches a way to validly question your belief system intellectually, evangelicals are afraid of thought.

fred said...

I feel for anyone voting blue in a red state, at least the true deep red areas. Those people are judgemental and mean!

micah said...

(nor would Clinton have won in '92 without Perot on the ticket).

This is almost certainly false.

If you apportion Perot voters to Clinton and Bush, uniformly throughout the country, you need to give Clinton a bit under 34% of Perot's votes in order for him to win the election. Note that this assumes that all Perot voters would still have voted in a two-party election--if some would have abstained, which is likely, the percentage of those who vote that Bush would have had to get is considerably larger.
What data I've been able to find on exit polling says that Perot voters were fairly evenly split between Clinton and Bush.

So, in order to believe that Perot swung the election to Clinton, you need to hold some combination of these two beliefs:

1) Exit polling in 1992 was massively, unprecedentedly wrong about this one issue, even after the after-the-fact reweighting based on actual results.

2) Of all Perot supporters, the ones who would support Bush in a 2-party election were incredibly concentrated in some specific set of states that just happened to give Bush 270 electoral votes.

Making this even more unlikely, Clinton was the one with a slight structural advantage in the electoral college that year--if you apportion Perot voters as I've described, Bush wins the popular vote by about 0.5% at the tipping point where the electoral college is tied (for anyone who's curious, Iowa ends up being the tipping point state).

Also, I'm not just saying this after the fact: the Bush campaign themselves seem to have agreed with me at the time...

Cataplexis said...

OK, so saw this in the NYT.

Basically, the RNC has $76M stashed away for the homestretch, more than four times the Democrats' war chest.

This sounds like a Bad Thing.

Yes, I'm very paranoid. Yes, I having a very hard time believing the polls. Yes, I've been voting Democratic and losing for too long to expect anything but disappointment. Yes, I'd like egg in my beer. Guilty on all counts.

But, still...a Bad Thing, no?

Abby said...

McCain is within easy striking distance in VA, FL, OH, NC, etc. This despite Marxist boy's huge spending advantage so far and horrendous economic news of the last couple of weeks. McCain will prevail in all the close Bush states aforementioned. The race is going to come down to CO. Period. With money to burn the GOP will hammer Marxist boy on Ayers, Wright, al-Mansour, Rezko, and more. Nate Silver is such a joke showing a likely Obama victory at 95%. This is the same clown that helps run that joke of a site Baseball Prospectus. They tout math nerds like Paul Depodesta and Billy Beane as great GMs. Depodesta sunk the Dogers to their worst record in 40 years. Beane is touted by BP, and guys like uber dork Rob Neyer, as an offensive genius. This year his team, the A's, had the lowest OPS in all of baseball, including NL teams. Some offensive genius. None of the real baseball experts take BP seriously and none of the real expert pollsters take this site seriously either.

bugstomper said...

prathap,

The link you posted where the FactCheck and fightthesmears articles were "busted" does not bust it at all. Read the article you linked to, especially the update where he admits making a mistake as a non-lawyer interpreting the court documents. He said the court ordered Obama to produce the documents. It turned out that the court document was a motion by the plaintiff requesting the court to order Obama to produce the document. The motion has not been rules on yet, nor has Obama's motion to dismiss the case.

Right-wing blogs have claimed that the first picture of the birth certificate, the one posted on fightthesmears.com, was photoshopped. That led FactCheck.org people to go to Chicago to personally see and handle the birth certificate. They have pictures of one of them holding it and closeups of the embossing and the signature. I saw one wingnut claim that the Obama campaign must have used the time between the initial photograph and the visit from FactCheck.org to make a forgery good enough to fool them. Sure, that makes so much more sense than believing that a birth certificate is a birth certificate.

But on top of everything else is this item on a right-wing blog trying to prove that Obama is not a citizen. An anti-Obama person submitted a picture of his birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper. See comment #18 on that page in which the person explains that at that time those birth announcements were based on weekly lists from the Department of Vital Records of birth certificates that they received from hospitals, sent directly to the newspapers. There was no way for that newspaper listing about the birth of a son to Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama on August 4 to be the result of anything other than a baby being born in a hospital in Hawaii on that date and having a birth certificate issued for him.

Notice that that link is a right-wing anti-Obama site and the information was tracked down by someone who was trying to come up with information against Obama. And it verifies the birth in Hawaii independently of the authenticity of the pictures on FactCheck.org.

DCM in FL said...

ABBY

that is a troll post. try a few facts to back up your talking points & personal biases next time, eh ?

'easy striking distance' = McCain has 'em just where he wants 'em by trailing in every BLUE state & in at least 6 Red states...

good game plan with only 3 weeks to go & early voting already underway in many places

do you really believe your post or are you just another angry bitter loser who would rather cut off your nose to spite your own face ?

at least try to maintain some civility & dignity becaue there is always 'HOPE" - no wait, that is also Obama's

maybe things will 'CHANGE' - nope, another Obama

well, your side does have 'WAR' & 'KILL, BABY, KILL'

fred said...

bugstomper-

Go back to killing bugs. The document he produced is not a court order, and has no force. Most Federal Courts are too damn lazy to produce their own docs and you turn in a "proposed order" when you file. That is all it is, it holds no force of law and should not be used.

The story has been rebuked, Obama is a citizen. These stories originated with an insane man, they are delusions.

fred said...

cat-

RNC having money is kinda bad, but the the RNC is limited as it can only spend money on negative ads and the negative ads are not working for McCain. This produces a catch 22, they have money, but they cannot spend it to support the candidate in the way he needs.

Obama is in a much better position, particualrly if he raised 100 mil last month and another 100 mil this month. He can spend and anything.

Aman said...

I wonder if McCain will pull the "one term" trick out of the hat in an effort at a final gamechanger...

fred said...

aman-

I think the "I never wanted it anyway" zero term strategy is all he has now.

Palin was the anchor, the economy was the rising water, he is drowning.

synthetoceras said...

Well, I've seen a lot of trolls posting elsewhere that the market responds unfavorably to Obama's rise in the polls. Guess that hypothesis is blown out of the water, eh trolls?

But in the post hoc ergo propter hoc department, I've noticed that the market tanks whenever the McCain camp launches a major smear campaign against Obama. Notice too that the market recovers when the McCain camp promises to lay off....

slatief said...

funny how the new mccain strategies are the same failed hillary ones (<3 hillary)

Mr. X said...

Not a tipping point state in this or probably any other election, I realize, but pleasantly surprised to see Obama competitive in North Dakota this late in the season. He has visited the state 3 times or so after winning its caucuses on Super Tuesday, so his team must have seen something here early on, even if they did withdraw their investment some time ago.
I still think a win is plausible here, although only as part of a ~350 EV scenario.

Matt said...

Pardon me if someone already said this, but with the projected average of simulations at 359.8, Obama's now more than 2:1 ahead of McCain! That's a landslide as far as I'm concerned, but no reason to stop there, let's get 375 or even 400+!

CheGuevara said...

I really wish Obama would spend some resources in Texas, I know it seems like a dead red state but the few polls that have shown up have ranged from McCain +20 all the way down to McCain +8 -- perhaps the application of some resources, even a few campaign stops might cut it dangerously close, which even if it doesn't flip Texas, builds the groundwork for future campaigns and forces McSame to defend yet another strong red state.

Lord knows Obama has the money to spend if he needs to, so why not go out on a limb and take a shot? The same philosophy applies to Montana and North Dakota, just some TLC and a personal appearance might be enough to force the races there to close to 50% if not flip them. Arkansas is only McCain +9, it's a small state but there's an opening. Georgia, McCain only +9 to +3, attack it! Mississippi, +13 to +8 and a hot open Senate race, attack!!

At this point, with Obama up so broadly, it would be a good idea now to expand the battlefield as much as possible, to not only force McCain to commit resources he doesn't have, but to also on election day create as broad a mandate as possible, over as many parts of the country as possible. Of course, the deep south is probably impenetrable, excepting AR/MS/GA, which could be made very close, but the rockies aren't bad off and should be secured for this and fuure campaigns.

Even a small commitment of resources now has the potential to pay off huge, as McSame really is taking a lot of his supposed base states for granted. Expand the field, Barack! Make more purple!

Greg said...

"and (less interestingly) in Oregon" -- as someone who lives in Oregon, I disagree.

Seeing Obama's jump in the polls was the first time I thought to myself that Merkley is likely up in the senate race against Smith.

MrInsight22 said...

Anyone born on american soil is automatically a US citizen at birth.

However, if you are born in a foreign country, BOTH of your parents have to be Americans in order for you to automatically be a US citizen. If only one parent is American and you are born overseas, things get way more complicated.

Obama's paternal grandmother is still alive and she has proudly said in the past that she was present when Barack was supposedly born in a Kenyan hospital.

Green-Guard said...

Obama is not American, he is a Muslim terrorist experiment to destroy the USA!!

MAN WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING TO JUSTIFY VOTING FOR MCCAIN!

Ok, now to what I originally wanted to say. The best result of the day for Obama was the NY +33 result. Ok, ok NY is as blue as the ocean anyway but a +33 in New York means a great deal of things.

1. The place will be a democrat given for the decades to come

2. The New York minorities (among them Jews and Asian Americans) are almost unanimously backing Obama and this at least hints that big O has solidified his position with them nationally.

3. It is next to impossible to lose the popular vote if one gets +33 in New York, +16 in California, +15 in Illinois and +10 in PA. I know it is an electoral system but what fun is a landslide without huge gaps in the popular vote? (not to mention the mandate and all.)

Herunar said...

mc9cain:
Obama leading by 37 points in NY is not good news. If he's gaining a huge lead in NY and the nationwide polls are stable, it likely means he's slightly losing ground elsewhere. There may be slight inconsistencies between nationwide polls and state polls, as well as those between different pollsters - but, still, racking up huge margins in big states like NY and CA is never a good idea in a winner-takes-all race.

Arun said...

What would be wrong in treating the two Gallup versions of poll results as two independent polls, and including both of them in the model?

Herunar said...

Obama winning independents and yet leading McCain by just 2 in IBD/TIPP? Ridiculous.

Hack Wilson said...

I live in far northern Illinois (Vernon Hills)and am supposed to go up to Milwaukee Sunday to canvass for Obama. Looking at the polls is it worth it? Should I just start celebrating and get drunk?

myw said...

I know this post is too far down to really be visible, but I think it's pertinent.

On the question of two LV models from Gallup, Jay Cost has a good piece. Yes, I know it's on RCP—not very well-loved here—but really, the HorceRace blog is top-notch.

Melanie said...

Well, I made phone calls for Obama today through the website. Most were no answers, but of the 5 people I spoke with, 4 told me they were supporting Obama and were enthusiastic about it, and the fifth hung up on me. This is in Pennsylvania by the way. Just my anecdotal support for the current trends!

gentdave said...

On McCain going negative -

I think after the debate he is going to go all out with the socialist charge, using the "New Party" connection. I don't think McCain wants to be seen as trying to paint Obama as a terrorist however. I think the whole Ayres thing was to try to establish a pattern/theme in people's mind so that the socialist/"New Party" charge would be seen as a continuation of that pattern.

love notes said...

Nate,

First, I very much appreciate your site. I read it daily and have forwarded it to a number of people.

I live in Indiana and have been very actively campaigning out of the Washington Township field office. I note that you have IN leaning DEM today. Can you explain the "trend adjusted" number and how this is derived? Perhaps this is explained somewhere on your site.

Think BLUE Indiana!

Thank you for your time in answering this.

Ben said...

If you take the difference between 538's projections and 2004, state-by-state, you get:
MA -4.9
CT 7.7
ME 3.7
NH 5.6
RI 0.9
VT 7.6
NY 5.0
NJ 5.5
MD 11.4
DC -10.7
DE 15.2
FL 9.9
GA 11.4
NC 14.0
VA 14.7
SC 18.2
TX 12.9
AL 5.8
LA 7.3
MS 12.1
MO 9.2
TN 0.4
KY 7.1
OK 6.4
AR 1.7
WV 12.1
PA 8.0
OH 5.7
MI 6.5
IN 21.5
IL 10.5
WI 10.7
MN 6.1
IA 12.9
KS 13.3
NE 19.4
ND 22.1
SD 13.1
AZ 2.2
CO 12.0
NM 10.2
NV 6.6
UT 14.5
ID 13.0
MT 15.4
WY 18.2
AK 12.7
CA 7.4
WA 5.6
OR 10.7
HI 24.9
Which leads to some questions: What makes West Virginia, suddenly, so different from its neighbors Arkansas and Kentucky? Are the huge leaps in the states Obama has no chance in, and presumably haven't been polled much (South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska) real or a glitch in the model? Why is Indiana so qualitatively different than its rust belt and north central neighbors, where Obama's gains have been more modest and consistent? Does the overall picture, with the bigger gains in the south and northwest, show that, while Democrats are reaching a "ceiling" in the northeast and Pacific regions, the future is bright for a broader, bluer America in all 50 states?

egapre said...

情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,潤滑液,自慰套,威而柔,威而柔,威而柔,威而柔,自慰套,跳蛋,按摩棒,充氣娃娃,自慰套,潤滑液,威而柔,FleshLight,跳蛋,按摩棒,充氣娃娃,跳蛋,按摩棒,FleshLight,充氣娃娃,情趣商品,情趣網站,情趣網站,潤滑液,性感內衣,充氣娃娃,按摩棒,情趣精品,跳蛋,情趣網站,情趣商品,跳蛋,FleshLight,充氣娃娃,情趣內衣,情趣精品,按摩棒,威而柔,自慰套,成人玩具,Nexus,lelo,聰明球,後庭,後庭g點,g點,美國fleshlight,STU訓練大師,Fleshgirls,Toys Heart,Tenga,日本 Vibratex,日本Toys Heart ,日本Tenga,美國aneros,rudeboy,英國rudeboy,英國Rocksoff,德國Fun Factory,Fun Factory,英國甜筒造型按摩座,甜筒造型按摩座,英國Rock Chic ,瑞典 Lelo ,英國Emotional Bliss,英國 E.B,荷蘭 Natural Contours,荷蘭 N C,美國 OhMiBod,美國 OMB,Naughti Nano ,音樂按摩棒,ipod按摩棒,美國 The Screaming O,美國TSO,美國TOPCO,美國Doc Johnson,美國CA Exotic,美國CEN,美國Nasstoy,美國Tonguejoy,英國Je Joue,美國Pipe Dream,美國California Exotic,美國NassToys,美國Vibropod,美國Penthouse,仿真按摩棒,矽膠按摩棒,猛男倒模,真人倒模,仿真倒模,PJUR,Zestra,適趣液,穿戴套具,日本NPG,雙頭龍,FANCARNAL,日本NIPPORI,日本GEL,日本Aqua Style,美國WET,費洛蒙,費洛蒙香水,仿真名器,av女優,打炮,做愛,性愛,口交,吹喇叭,肛交,魔女訓練大師,無線跳蛋,有線跳蛋,震動棒,震動保險套,震動套,TOY-情趣用品,情趣用品網,情趣購物網,成人用品網,情趣用品討論,成人購物網,鎖精套,鎖精環,持久環,持久套,拉珠,逼真按摩棒,名器,超名器,逼真老二,電動自慰,自慰,打手槍,仿真女郎,SM道具,SM,性感內褲,仿真按摩棒,pornograph,hunter系列,h動畫,成人動畫,成人卡通,情色動畫,情色卡通,色情動畫,色情卡通,無修正,禁斷,人妻,極悪調教,姦淫,近親相姦,顏射,盜攝,偷拍,本土自拍,素人自拍,公園露出,街道露出,野外露出,誘姦,迷姦,輪姦,凌辱,痴漢,痴女,素人娘,中出,巨乳,調教,潮吹,av,a片,成人影片,成人影音,線上影片,成人光碟,成人無碼,成人dvd,情色影音,情色影片,情色dvd,情色光碟,航空版,薄碼,色情dvd,色情影音,色情光碟,線上A片,免費A片,A片下載,成人電影,色情電影,TOKYO HOT,SKY ANGEL,一本道,SOD,S1,ALICE JAPAN,皇冠系列,老虎系列,東京熱,亞熱,武士系列,新潮館,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,整型,水噹噹,貸款,貸款,信用貸款,宜蘭民宿,花蓮民宿,未婚聯誼,網路購物,珠海,下川島,常平,珠海,澳門機票,香港機票,婚友,婚友社,未婚聯誼,交友,婚友,婚友社,單身聯誼,未婚聯誼,未婚聯誼,婚友社,婚友,婚友社,單身聯誼,婚友,未婚聯誼,婚友社,未婚聯誼,單身聯誼,單身聯誼,婚友,單身聯誼,未婚聯誼,婚友,交友,交友,婚友社,婚友社,婚友社,大陸新娘,大陸新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,越南新娘,外籍新娘,外籍新娘,台中坐月子中心,搬家公司,搬家,搬家,搬家公司,線上客服,網頁設計,線上客服,網頁設計,網頁設計,土地貸款,免費資源,電腦教學,wordpress,人工植牙,關鍵字,關鍵字,seo,seo,網路排名,自然排序,網路排名軟體,

Tessa said...

I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.


Ruth

http://muffinsnow.com

Tessa said...

I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.


Ruth

http://besttoddler.com