Over at the Campaign Spot, Jim Geraghty wonders how the new ABC/Washington Post poll could have the temerity to suggest that Barack Obama is winning more support among Democrats than John McCain is among Republicans:
The ABC/WashPost poll in late September found 86 percent of Republicans for McCain, 88 percent of Democrats for Obama. PUMAs don't exist anymore? Colin Powell and Christopher Buckley are leading the exodus of Republicans for Obama? I suppose it's possible, but I have my doubts.I suppose I have my doubts too, except that this finding is now reflected in any number of polls. In fact, six of the eight trackers that published today included the support that each candidate is winning within his respective party. Let's take a quick look at those figures:
Support within own party:
Pollster DEMS GOP
Rasmussen 86 87
IBD-TIPP 88 83
Research 2000 87 89
ABC/Post 91 84
Zogby 87 84
Battleground 89 85
AVERAGE 88.0 85.3
2004 Exit Poll 89 93
2000 Exit Poll 86 91Among Democrats, Barack Obama is now winning 88 percent support, comparable to John Kerry in 2004 or Al Gore in 2000. And there are a couple of points' worth of undecideds left in there, so it's possible that Obama could scrape up against the 90 percent number on election day.By contrast, John McCain is winning the support of just 85.3 percent of Republicans, well down from Bush's 93 percent in 2004 and 91 percent in 2000. There are some undecideds in there as well, so his numbers should improve some, but McCain is likely to underperform Bush by several points.
This is really the key theme of the whole post-Lehman Obama surge. Between his more populist talking points on the economy, the backlash to McCain's attacks, and -- I'm guessing here -- a deep level of antipathy among Democrats toward Sarah Palin (Battleground has her favorability ratings at 12/78 among Dems), Obama has really brought the Democratic base home. By contrast, Obama's support among independents varies quite significantly from poll to poll, ranging from essentially even in the Rasmussen tracker to a +15 in Zogby.
Perhaps the more important question is whether, all else being equal, you would rather have a lead built upon support within your own party or built upon independent support. My guess is that the former is a bit more solid: Partisans turn out more reliably than independents, and change their minds less often.
And here's a really scary stat for McCain. If Obama wins by the same margin among Democrats that McCain does among Republicans (and to reiterate, right now Obama is doing a bit better within his own party), and Rasmussen's most recent party ID breakdown is correct (D 39.7, R 33.0, I 27.3), then McCain will need to win independents by about 20 points to earn a draw in the popular vote.

239 comments
Obama to visit Indianapolis Thursday
This is anecdotal, but I know several former strong Hillary supporters, and none of them seriously considered voting for McCain, especially after the Palin pick. I really think the McCain campaign miscalculated by assuming significant numbers of women would just vote their gender and not their political beliefs. Sexist as hell, really.
Heavy first day of early voting in Tampa area:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article863885.ece
excerpts:
"In Pasco County on Monday, some people waited an hour to cast their votes, and by day's end 4,553 had voted, compared with 1,473 on the first day of early voting in 2004. In Hillsborough County, more than 7,600 voted, nearly double the number that turned out on the first day of early voting in 2004."
"Clinton told an estimated 60,000 people crammed around Amway Arena for a joint rally with Obama in Orlando on Monday night. "Now is the time to close the deal for Barack Obama." "
"There are now 657,775 more Democratic voters in Florida than Republicans, while four years ago the Democratic advantage was less than 370,000."
Sorry, I have to post this again as it's so funny!
A 'crowd' of 15, yes FIFTEEN, people greet McCain!
No, I'm not making this up: http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2008/10/20/mccain-land-columbia-regional-airport/
"Phillips, who also saw John F. Kennedy at the Joplin Airport in 1962, said she was upset at the small size of the crowd gathered to see McCain.
McCain campaign volunteer Jane Stuart agreed. In 2000, when then-Republican presidential nominee George W. Bush visited the airport there was a much larger crowd, Stuart said."
matador said...
ok.
back to work.
have a nice day to you all and good morning to Real Joe whenever He arrives.
Hey Real Joe:
Obama's boat is leaving the harbour ,would you mind to hurry up and just jump in ???
bye.
:)
good morning !
13 days to go
Obama Would Create Cabinet Level Technology Officer
On Election Night, Look To The East
We Should Know Early On Whether Democrats Won The White House And A Filibuster-Proof Majority In The Senate
Link
Wow, that zogby graphic does make my heart sing!
PUMA's are really just racists looking for another excuse. That has been my take on it from the beginning. Cowards.
I have been volunteering with BO in NM for months now. We are running our GOTV strategy, and we will get those voters out, guys. Go down and volunteer to really make this a mandate from the American people, especially if you live in OH,VA,NC (list too long to complete). OK, basically all but CA and AK
Oh, and don't underestimate the Powell endorsement. My friend has been working on his father now for months. He is a retired Jewish man in FL. Yesterday he wrote an email saying, "Son, you and the General have won me over"
Aussie, we cross our fingers hoping for no recount, and we wait until the incombunt is sworn in on innuguration day. We stay up late as we can stand on the 4th into the 5th,a nd wonder what the hell George is trying to pull to screw the election this time.
Aussie said...
I just need to know...
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER 11/4???
What will I do for hours on end?
How will I risk divorse?
Will this site still be up with new threads posted?
It's OK for you Americans... you can go about rebuilding your International Reputation, your world class economy and a health care system for all.
But what am I to do here in Australia?
I need to know, is there life after 11/4?
Tell me - or I'll become an evangelical!
Sorry for being OT
Polling today:
Daily Kos O +8
Zogby O +8
ABC/WaPo O +9
Could we finally be seeing the Powell bounce?
Washington Post is starting a daily poll:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/?hpid=topnews
The first track showed Obama holding a 53 percent to 44 percent edge over McCain; you can find the newest data EVERY DAY at 5 p.m. ET on our polling blog -- Behind the Numbers.
poll address:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/
And, of all the things, McCain made them have tickets. I saw Obama in Kansas City.it was like a breath of fresh air. There were 75,000 people there. John should know not to speak in college towns. People tend to be more liberal there.
Your post is cracking me up. What a funny thing to read this early in the morning.
SHERWICK said...
A 'crowd' of 15, yes FIFTEEN, people greet McCain!
No, I'm not making this up: http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2008/10/20/mccain-land-columbia-regional-airport/
October 21, 2008 7:01 AM
Obama enters October with $133.6 million in hand
CNN-TIME state polls coming out today
Hellooo.... Anyone still reading/posting here?
I'm relatively new to the site, and tho I've figured out what a PUMA is from context, I don't know what the acronym stands for. I tried going to the PUMA website, but didn't find it (couldn't stand to spend too much time there, to tell you the truth....).
Can anyone help? plzthx.
PUMA is Party Unity My Ass. Group of bitter Hillary supporters that say they will rally dem support to McCain. Try puma08.com
Oh, and welcome!
Here's a GREAT way to support Senator Obama while he visits his grandmother.....
PLEASE start posting on at least 3 blogs, per day reminders to VOTE EARLY and
ABSENTEE VOTE. Refer them to Senator Obama's website for their states
guidelines regarding VOTE EARLY/ABSENTEE VOTE in their state. This is one of
the best ways we can support Senator Obama THIS WEEK by maintaining his momentum.
If we hit big numbers THIS WEEK it will keep him in the news in a POSITIVE WAY.
http://www.barackobama.com/voters/
Let's knocked these EARLY/ABSENTEE VOTES out the park this week.
As the song goes, let's give them something to talk about.
PUMAs never existed in any large form. The proof is in every poll since the conventions. The GOP would have been ahead by 8 to 10 points on Sept. 5 if PUMAs existed in the totals the pundits projected.
The Democrats may have the most solid coalition of constituencies within their party in 2008 since Johnson in 1964.
Why do I say that? The only constituency that existed then within the party does not exist now: the Dixiecrat. All other demographic groups are with Obama.
This is not a single election movement as much as it could be a generational movement toward the center/left from the center/right.
Thanks, Heather. I thought of "Hillary" "Clinton" "Democrats"--none of those fitted in the acronym. And bitter is right! That's why I couldn't make it very far into their website. Talk about a woman scorned!
Using Rasmussen Party ID Weighting Zogby Would Be 52% to 41%.
20%? That is entirely possible. As Rasmussen also states, most of this year's independents are 2004 republicans who are disappointed with their party (for a multitude of reasons, mostly Dubyah).
I do know one "PUMA" who is supporting McCain. She also would vote for Biden over McCain, and loves the Clintons.
i think there are some Clinton supporters that secretly hope McCain will mess up so badly that Hillary will run and win in 2012.
Since Obama will win and do well, these people will be on his side in 2012.
I would not be surprised to see some southern states turn blue in 4 years.
The clues that "PUMAS" were going extinct were in plain sight in Denver. After a ton of hype and bloggy/media excitement, there were less than a hundred actual Clinton diehards going for McCain. They'd announce a "march" and you'd see 40 bitter women walking down the street yelling.
While there are some Hillary supporters who will vote Republican, they are nothing like a movement. That was an astroturfing effort by some independents.
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/2008/09/sockpuppets-and-astroturfing-in.html
If there's a vast PUMA movement, they sure didn't show up at the Democratic National Convention (the one place they'd have a chance for real impact). I saw the PUMA crowd marching up and down the mall and holding signs outside the convention center. PUMAs were outnumbered by Falun Gong practitioners, anarchists, Code Pink women for peace, American Indian Movement members, Guantanamo protesters in orange jump suits, and Nader/Gonzales supporters. PUMAs had about as much of a presence as PETA, Hare Krishnas, marijuana-legalization activists, and guys advertising for Verizon or MSNBC on Segways.
IfMcCainDoesn'tWin:
Why base number of wins on the percentage of income paid as taxes? After all, if someone has an income of $100,000 and pays $30,000 in taxes, is he really contributing three times as much as someone who earns $300,000 and pays $30,000?
Why not just say that every dollar someone pays in taxes equals one vote? And then you could go a step further and make all taxation voluntary, so that people can choose how much representation they want, and no-one can complain about an onerous tax burden.
How could anyone hate that idea?
Oh, and how do you fell about the fact that Palin forced the hard-working oil companies of Alaska to give every man, woman and child in the state $3,269 last year? Your average Alaskan family of one state governor, one anti-American secessionist and five children earned $22,883 in socialist government handouts before they even get out of bed.
If you're so anti-socialist, why are you so keen to put someone who's actually implemented a socialist economic system in the Whitehouse?
"honestly, everyone should pay the SAME percentage, if we were to be truly democratic."
I'd like to point out that we DO pay the same tax rate.
You pay 10% on the next $8,000 you earn, just like me.
You pay 15% on the next $24,000 you earn, just like me.
You pay 25% on the next $45,000 you earn, just like me.
And so on and so forth...
Voted today in Atlanta Georgia (cobb county) - waited 2 1/2 hours - HUGE CROWD - PUMPED UP CROWD! Poll workers say crowds like this everyday!
OECD Report Finds Rising Income Inequality With U.S. Among Worst
Only two of 30 nations, Mexico and Turkey, are ahead of the United States for income inequality and poverty rates, or the gap between rich and poor, according to a report released Tuesday.
...
In America, the average income of the richest 10 percent of people is $93,000. When compared to purchasing power parity, it is the highest in the OECD when compared with the average of $54,000 for OECD nations.
The poorest 10 percent of Americans have an income of $5,800 per year, compared to the OECD average of $7,000.
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7012734983
BUT WHO ARE THEY VOTING FOR??? Any idea of who the early voters are supporting? I just can't wait!!
How can we know the real shift in the electorate when several states haven't been polled in almost a month or longer? South Dakota, Arkansas, Louisiana, Arizona, Nebraska, Tennessee are all places I am curious to see current trends in. Indiana hasn't been polled in three weeks.
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