Our projection models are designed to be fairly dynamic -- but you don't usually have the circumstance wherein a sitting senator gets convicted on seven felony counts (appeal pending!) eight days before an election. So, a little bit of creativity is going to be required.
Once we have post-conviction polls in Alaska -- Markos Moulitsas has already commissioned a Research 2000 poll in the state, and I'm sure that Ivan Moore and Rasmussen are also eager to get out into the field -- we will use those and simply drop any pre-conviction numbers. But none of those polls are back from the field yet. So we need some sort of band-aid in the meantime.
The closest recent parallel I can find to the Ted Stevens situation is that of former Ohio governor Bob Taft, who in August, 2005 was convicted on misdemeanor charges of failing to disclose gifts and golf trips paid for by lobbyists. Taft plead no contest and remained in office, but this didn't have a favorable effect on his approval ratings. He went from a 34-55 (-21) in a University of Cincinnati poll taken in April 2005 to a 26-65 (-39) in the same poll in August 2006, a net decline of 18 points.
Let's assume that Stevens will also suffer a decline in his net approval score of 18 points. Since he's at roughly 50/50 now, that would put him in the range of 40 percent approve, 60 percent disapprove. Our regression model uses approval ratings for incumbent senators as one of its inputs, and thinks a decline of this magnitude would cost a senator about 6 points in the polls ... actually, 5.8 points. So what we're going to do is apply a 5.8 point penalty to Stevens' numbers in Alaska. Since the race was a toss-up before, this puts him about 6 points behind overall, making Mark Begich an 87 percent favorite to take his seat. That seems conservative to me, frankly, given that even the guys at RedState are abandoning Stevens, but it's what we'll run with until there's some polling out.
Assuming that Stevens loses his race, how much does this help the Democrats' chances of picking up a 60-seat caucus? Well, it certianly helps some. But this is a race that the Democrats were probably going to win if they had a reasonably good night overall. There aren't tipping point senate races in the quite the same way there are tipping point states in the race for the White House; senate races move a bit more independently from one another. (Though not completely so; there have been plenty of years like 1980 and 2006 when a party overperformed its polls in essentially every high-profile congressional race). Nevertheless, it is Georgia, Mississippi and Kentucky -- not Alaska -- that represent the key races if Democrats want to hit 60 seats and 60 specifically.
...and in those races, the Democratic challengers remain within striking distance, but none have yet broken through. In fact, there's a good poll out for Mississippi incumbent Roger Wicker, who leads by 12 according to the Mobile Press Register. This was a weird little survey -- there were tons of undecideds, especially among black voters -- but nevertheless, we are about getting to the point where we'd want to see a nominal lead for Ronnie Musgrove in at least one public poll. Likewise for Bruce Lunsford in Kentucky and Jim Martin in Georgia (though close may count in Martin's case, who can earn a December run-off by holding Saxby Chambliss under 50 percent of the vote).
The Democrats, however, are making significant progress toward locking in a number in the 57-59 seat range. In Colorado, Mark Udall now rates as a 97 percent favorite thanks largely to a Rocky Mountain News poll that has him ahead by 13. That sounds like an aggressive forecast, until you remember that the Republicans have essentially pulled out of the race. John Sununu, meanwhile, is running out of time to catch up to Jeanne Shaheen in New Hampshire.
This means that there are five Democratic pickups -- Colorado, New Hampshire, Alaska, Virginia, and New Mexico -- that are now looking quite safe. Oregon may soon be joining them, as new polls by SurveyUSA and the Portland Tribune put Jeff Merkley ahead by 7 and 5 points, respectively. Since Oregon votes entirely by mail, this is not a good place to be trying to make up a late deficit, even if it's a relatively small one.
Kay Hagan, meanwhile, appears as though she may have plateaued in North Carolina. Unfortunaetly for Elizabeth Dole, Hagan has plateaued with a small lead still in hand. This has become an exceptionally expensive race -- Dole just lent her campaign an additional $3 million -- and as funds get re-directed from places like Alaska and Colorado, it may get even more so.
Minnesota remains too close to call, if tilting very slightly to Al Franken. The key factor here is the support for independent Dean Barkley, who is still polling at about 18 percent, but much of that support is likely to collapse by election day. From parsing the SurveyUSA cross-tabs, it appears that about 29 percent of Barkley's vote comes from Democrats, 20 percent from Republicans, and 51 percent from true independents. Also, roughly two-thirds of Barkley's voters are pro-choice. This means that the race is probably Franken's to lose, but with so much advertising on both sides, it can be hard to drive a message.
10.28.2008
Senate Projections, Baked Alaska Edition
by Nate Silver @ 7:07 AM...see also alaska, senate, senate polls
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359 comments
"Who's we? We don't work for Obama, who the hell cares what people on the internet say."
Posting on 538.com makes you a de facto member of Obama's campaign, and you are responsible for acting as such.
Regarding the Stevens and Taft comparisons, I would suggest slightly different numbers. Taft was already low in the polls, so to go -18 from 34% approval is tremendous. Those 34 were pretty die-hard, more so than Stevens' 50. Stevens will certainly see a greater impact. The way I calculate it, Taft went from 34 to 26 support, losing 24% of his support. So I'd suggest Stevens may lose the same, resulting in a 38% approval ratng. Slight difference, but I thought worth pointing out.
As an Obama supporter, I couldn't care less about McCain in 64. He was always a reckless dude. I hope people vote against him because of his current situation though.
Random thoughts...
I can't believe there are people who still think the Democratic leadership should treat Holy Joe with kid gloves. He's a fucking AIPAC shill and a traitor, not only to his party, but to his country. Lieberman's home state isn't Connecticut, it's Jerusalem. He's quite possibly the most despicable senator along with James Inhofe.
Obama, if elected, would be wise to punt Pelosi and Reid. When congress has a lower approval rating than Bush, it's time for new leadership. My choices are rahm Emanuel and Chris Dodd (or Hillary).
Nice one on the shitty PA weather. Where do they go now?
Are you joking inkstain? Or was that.........serious?
Pew 10/28:
Obama 53
McCain 38
(Likely voters)
The dems are actually likely to pick up seats in 2010... I've been looking at them a lot and there are going to be some retiring senators in 2010 from teh republicans and there are some blue states that Have R's up... also the Republicans will be defending more seats in general andd finally we have some popular Gov's that are dems ink red states like KS/OK/AZ etc. that could run...
Nate,
Some early voting stats might be of interest. (Presidential, not senate related)
http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html
Pew poll is out, and it ain't good news for McCain:
O: 52
M: 36
Pew
Seriously though, Alaska has to be the most corrupt welfare state in the union. It's a disgrace. The people there put up with it because they reap all the rewards off the hard work of the lower 48. Anyone would be a popular governor if you could give everyone thousands of dollars in oil windfall profits tax. Anyone would be a popular senator if you could give millions in pork barrel crap to your constituents.
"Are you joking inkstain? Or was that.........serious?"
Which? The transcripts?
I'm dead serious. If you are running for President of the United States (or VP), you should be willing to open up *everything*. I want medical records, college transcripts, the works. I want Obama to willingly post a database of *all* donations, as McCain I believe has. I want Palin to stop hiding e-mails. I want McCain to answer this, since at least some serious news organizations are investigating.
"Pew 10/28:
Obama 53
McCain 38
(Likely voters)"
BOOYAH!
McCain is the second coming! He can't die! Crashing planes, cars, trains makes no difference to him. He's UNBREAKABLE! All Hail McCain!
Pew 10/28:
Obama 53
McCain 38
HOLY COW! Below 40 for McCain!
Likely voter numbers are 53-38
An observation on the McCain story about the car wreck in 1964...
Who cares? Here's why.
My wife's grandmother in Florida just received a McCain/Palin mailer saying Barack Obama would start another Holocaust.
Paid for by McCain/Palin.
Yeah, he wrecked 3 planes, a car, and a marriage. It is the ugliness of John McCain now in 2008 that I find more repulsive and reckless.
PEW pew pew pew pew (shooting bright red taser guns into the sky). Lord, 15!?
Anyone notice that joint appearance by Bill Clinton and Obama is still scheduled for Wednesday?
The time the program starts: 11 PM.
They must be looking to have live feeds on the local news channels.
Bill Clinton is in PA earlier that day as well. He is certainly ramping it up here in the last week.
I would figure that of the undecideds in Pew, a lot of those have to be people who will either not show up or vote Mc.
But on the other hand, w/Obama at 53, that don't matter!
Anyone notice that joint appearance by Bill Clinton and Obama is still scheduled for Wednesday?
The time the program starts: 11 PM.
Maybe it's going to be like a "post-game" show after the special?
The Pew poll is EXCELLENT NEWS!!! FOR MCCAIN!!!
MCCAIN SURGEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
11pm?
jnorthrop said...
Pew 10/28:
Obama 53
McCain 38
HOLY COW! Below 40 for McCain!
I'm sure you guys have just as much confidence in this poll as the IBD-Tipp Poll that shows a two to three point game right? Right?
PRESIDENT ELECT MCCAIN!!!!
Shame on you Sonia for your POW statement about not being able to get a hamburger...
McCain is a good man he's just overly ambitious and surounds himsel with assholes... but what respectable republican campaign workers do you know?
Besides McCain hasn't gone Jeremy Wright... I think there is some credit due there.
Correction: Lieberman was kicked out of his party by Ned Lamont and Connecticut Democratic voters. But he was traitor to his Democratic colleagues, most of whom campaigned for him in 2006, including Barack Obama.
Lieberman 2006: I Will Help Obama "Reach to the Stars"
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OJTJbqKuDDM
What a wormy little shit.
@Derek - All I was trying to point out was that those Dems in Montana, North Dakota and even Dick Durbin of Illinois are basically moderate Republicans who happen to have a D by their name. They will not go against their core principles just to support Obama (although Durbin is more flexible because of his homestate relationship). Personally, I think that's a good thing for the country.
I also think people on both sides are in for a surprise when Obama pushes the agenda he's been running on this whole time. He'll probably work more closely with moderate Republicans like Lugar and Hagel than most people expect, and will even support guys like Coburn where he can find common cause. That's the difference between governing and trying to impose an agenda, and again, it would be a good thing for the country.
@Seretse said... "I'm sure you guys have just as much confidence in this poll as the IBD-Tipp Poll that shows a two to three point game right? Right?"
It's probably an outlier but that spread is huge. How far off could it be? 5 points, 10 points?
Isn't Pew one of Nate's best polling firms?
"I'm sure you guys have just as much confidence in this poll as the IBD-Tipp Poll that shows a two to three point game right? Right?"
They both define the extreme ends of the bell curve. The most likely result is that the election is between the two, it is possible that either could be right.
@ seretse:
"I'm sure you guys have just as much confidence in this poll as the IBD-Tipp Poll that shows a two to three point game right? Right?"
I'd gladly split the difference between Obama+2 and Obama+15, if that'd make you happy. ;-)
Pew, linky coming:
Among Registered Voters
Obama: 52
McCain: 36
Obama ahead by 16 points
Among Likely Voters
Obama: 53
McCain: 38
Obama ahead by 15 points
Matt said...
Pew poll is out, and it ain't good news for McCain:
O: 52
M: 36
hehehehehe...
The fact that the range of polls all falls well on the Obama side show that Obama really is in the lead. If it was truly "anyone's game" the polls would be bouncing around on either side of 0, with some polls showing McCain ahead. When was the last time a poll showed McCain ahead?
David Gergen was right. McCain had to have done something already to shift this thing. I believe, other factors aside, that the enthusiasm gap is part of the early voting advantage for OBama, but a legitimate is the other part. In swing states 40-50% of the vote will probably take place before November 4th. McCain is falling behind.
Here's Florida from yesterday:
Delmar Obama 49-44
Rasmussen Obama 51-47
Suffolk Obama 49-44
Zogby Tie 47-47
Obama is ahead in Virginia, Ohio, and Florida according to 4-5 polls released in the last two days. Out of 14 polls for the three states, 13 have Obama with a 4 point lead or greater. All 3 have already started voting. Obama needs, at most, 1 of the 3.
Nate mentioned Obama is up in Nevada and North Carolina in early voting. He really just needs one of them or one of the states above or...
Colorado where recent polls show Obama up from 4-12 points.
Weather can't deter folks on November 4th. Make sure you GOTV, but this thing is over if we all vote.
Pew Linky
http://people-press.org/report/465/mccain-support-declines
Barack Obama leads John McCain by a 52% to 36% margin in Pew’s latest nationwide survey of 1,325 registered voters. This is the fourth consecutive survey that has found support for the Republican candidate edging down. In contrast, since early October weekly Pew surveys have shown about the same number of respondents saying they back Obama. When the sample is narrowed to those most likely to vote, Obama leads by 53% to 38%.
A breakdown of voting intentions by demographic groups shows that since mid- September, McCain’s support has declined significantly across most voting blocs. Currently, McCain holds a statistically significant advantage only among white evangelical Protestants (aside from Republicans). In addition, Obama runs nearly even with McCain in the so-called red states, all of which George W. Bush won in 2004.
"Barack Obama leads John McCain by a 52% to 36% margin in Pew’s latest nationwide survey of 1,325 registered voters."
HOLY FREAKIN' CRAP!
Obama up 19 among those already voted...
One thing to consider about the PEW poll. They are really sticking their necks out there. If Obama were to lose, then they would forever have a tainted reputation as the pollster that was over 15 points off. I'm sure they feel confident in the model. IBDPDP/TIPP isn't really that shocking of a result. It's a conservative look at things. But, they aren't stepping out onto a limb.
McCain is on another firing spree! Ted Stevens and Hank Paulson.
Pew link:
http://people-press.org/report/465/mccain-support-declines
I'm not sure about the college transcript thing for Obama. The guy did graduate from Columbia University (no mean feat), go on to Harvard Law School (at least above average, no?) and then became the first AA president of the Harvard Law Review. His law school grades alone have to have been stellar in order for him to have gotten that position.
So, what's the point? Did McCain release his transcripts (and I don't mean just where he finished in his class).
re: pew
I tend to think that's a bit of an outlier until we get some more evidence. however, even if it were 5 points off from the mean (about what the outliers have been doing IIRC), I'll take a 10 point national lead 7 days out happily!
Pew is right, mark my words.
Obama will win the popular vote by double digits.
sereste,
I have never had confidence in polls. Nov 4th is what matters. But I must say that the Pew poll is a GREAT morale booster for the repubs...LOL.
(Word Verification: inses)...Oops!
So porridgegun, have you come down off of the ledge yet? ;-)
bear in Illinois... I agree that he will work with Lugar, Hagel, and Coburn too... he has done it in the past and I don't see why he won't do it again... Also, I think he will work with McCain who is pretty moderate on some policies before he was running for reelection.... What I was saying is that Begich is going to be much closer to Obama than Stevens and Kay Hagan will be closer to Obama than Liddy Dole et al... So I agree and I like blue dog democrats esp. since that is my ideology, but blue dogs are different... esp. on the economy, than republicans. Also, conservative dems tend to be on board with Obama on foreign policy.
"Pew is right, mark my words...Obama will win the popular vote by double digits."
I'd like to see that but I doubt it. I think Pew is right to have O at 53 or so, but Mc is going to end up above 40, probably even above 45. Just no above 49.
Wait, now McCain wants to fire Paulson? I think I understand his leadership style now:
1. Ignore the issue.
2. Call for a commission
3. Get really really angry
4. Fire everyone
Yeah, that'll work.
Article in today's Times called "Coverage of Election Now Lacks Suspense," which discusses how the media are reporting the possibility of an Obama landslide:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/28/arts/television/28watc.html
The reporter mentions Chuck Todd of NBC and congratulates the media "for not trying to boost ratings to artificially prolong suspense." But Todd waited an excessively long time before changing some very obvious states on his electoral map to blue, and didn't move Obama past the 270 threshold until *yesterday*.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/27/1596444.aspx
For 538 readers, the trends have been clear since the economic collapse in September.
Among Likely Voters
Obama: 53
McCain: 38
Obama ahead by 15 points
For what it's worth, Obama's numbers in the Pew poll for RV (52) and LV (53) match Gallup RV and LV(expanded) numbers.
"I'd like to see that but I doubt it. I think Pew is right to have O at 53 or so, but Mc is going to end up above 40, probably even above 45. Just no above 49."
Agreed. The difference in the polling these days is mostly in McCain's line, not Obama's. I think we are seeing the enthusiasm gap, and how hard the pollster pushes leaners will decide McCain's number.
Interesting snippet from Politico's playbook:
"The Republican National Committee buys TV time in deep-red MONTANA and WEST VIRGINIA, a sign the party is scrambling to stave off a historic landslide a week from today. “Tough environment,” one Republican official says sardonically. The McCain campaign has not officially given up on VIRGINIA but a top official concedes it is LOST, while maintaining that a PENNSYLVANIA miracle can still get Senator McCain to 270. He and Governor Palin will be there repeatedly before Election Day. But should they also be shoring up Nevada, now a must-win?"
inkstain said...
They both define the extreme ends of the bell curve. The most likely result is that the election is between the two, it is possible that either could be right
So yes just as much confidence in either poll.
2004 Pew Poll before election:
Pew Research (1925 LV) 10/27 - 10/30 Bush 51% Kerry 48% 1% Bush +3
Looks like the were the most accurate pollster in 2004...Praise Jesus.
Nevada may be a 'must win' for McCain but it's already gone due to it (unlike PA) allowing early voting.
PorridgeGun-
I thought you swore Obama would be under 50 in Ras today?
Any math gurus out there?
I'll tell you what I'm seeing, I'd like a second though. I don't think McCain can overcome the early voting in Nevada. In other battlegrounds it's possible. Nevada seems like a done deal. If Obama gets Kerry states + Iowa, New Mexico, and Nevada, he's at 269. The House hands it to him if need be. So, if Nevada is done, McCain needs to win one of those states. Which one? New Hampshire?! Pennsylvania?! Wisconsin? New Mexico?! Iowa?! Minnesota?! Michigan?! Washington?! Maine District2?! I just listed every concievablee blue state McCain could hope for. He is not going to win any of them. There's no way he can flip Nevada. Bush beat Kerry by 20,000 votes in 2004. Dems have gained a net of almost 100,000 voters within a small electorate there since 2004. Obama tied Clinton there. Romney beat McCain soundly. Yucca Mountain is a big deal for the locals and McCain is on the wrong side of the issue. 85% of the people there live in Clark county (Vegas) or Washoe County (Reno). The other 15% live sparsely throughout the rest of the state, but it's a very small group. Washoe is smaller than Clark and splits about evenly. clark is heavy Democrat. They've had extremely high turnout so far, relative to overall 2004 totals and it's heavy Democrat. There's no recourse to GOTV in Nevada for McCain, he doesn't have the potential voters to do it. I think this is your tipping point, right here, right now. Nate's 3.3% for McCain is hyper-inflated. I'd say 0.3% for McCain. i'm calling the election. BTW, I'm completely serious.
http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html
"So yes just as much confidence in either poll."
Yes.
Although that's kind of an odd way to define it. We don't really put trust in any one poll. We look at all the data points and evaluate their combined picture.
What are the internals of the Pew poll? Anything funky there? A 10+ point lead is completely unrealistic IMO, unless they just focus their efforts on the two coasts and leave out everything in the middle.
inkstain,
Obama has a searchable DB of all donations. He just hasn't done a blanket dump of all names. Plus, if you use different credit/debit cards your name can be slightly different, so even a straight list would not be one hundred percent accurate (never really is, as Nate could explain in detail).
I didn't think the issue was ever Obama's transcripts - I haven't seen transcripts from any of the candidates this cycle, so I don't know why it would be an issue this time around. I know my transcripts would teach you a big fat nothing about me, at least without a ton of context and explanation (like my Russian class being at 8 am when I just couldn't wake up, and my contracts professor in law school being a nut job). Obama graduated top of his class at Harvard Law School - do you really need to know whether he got an A or B in Civil Procedure? Even today, there is such a thing as too much information, and I think you are headed there.
Christopher,
You forgot:
1.5 Blame everyone (you will know their names
"Even today, there is such a thing as too much information, and I think you are headed there."
Then we'll agree to disagree. Just like Nate takes all polls as data points, I believe all information is important.
Ted Stevens will step down, after winning re-election. Then, Gov. Palin will appoint...wait for it...Senator Dude! Congratulations Todd Palin, the next Senator from Alaska.
Obama is up 20 something in CA maybe up by 2-3 in FL, up double digits in all the Kerry states which a lot of them are big, up almost double digits in VA, up by 20 something in IL up 20 or so in NY... I mean why wouldn't Obama be up by at least ten?
McCain - off his rocker:
Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Paling went on CNBC's Squawk Box this morning. During the 5 mintue live interview with Maria Bartiromo McCain and Palin continued to call for a new government program to buy up bad mortgages in a way that "keeps people in their homes" and called Obama an "untested individual" on foreign policy.
McCain also tied his energy policy to new jobs, telling Maria Bartiromo that his plan to build "forty five nuclear power plants brings seven hudred jobs to America."
Pushed by Bartiromo on why he hasn't made opposition to labor unions' push to end secret ballots a top issue, McCain said "we've talked about it" but "there's only three or four issues you can get out." Asked if he would veto it, McCain concluded "in a New York minute, i will do everything in my power to block such legislation"
McCain hinted that if elected he would not keep Treasury Secretary Paulson, "I'd have someone who gave buying home [mortgages] a top priority."
http://www.politicshome.com/mobile/blog.aspx?id=4137
Pew internals look accurate and today's numbers are consistent with their trend. I have more faith in Pew than probably any other pollster out there. Remember, they include cellphones and that can make a big difference in the results.
Meanwhile, McCain is interviewed:
McCain also tied his energy policy to new jobs, telling Maria Bartiromo that his plan to build "forty five nuclear power plants brings seven hundred jobs to America."
Wow, 700 jobs over several years. And he wonders why he's losing?
At the same time Consumer Confidence is out and hits an alltime low of 38 well below last months 61.4 (which itself is very low). Stock market plunges on this news.
i think Obama will win by double digits because:
1. New voter turnout, black voter turnout, latino voter turnout all will likely be underestimated in the polls.
2. McCains support is weaker. He isnt well liked by his own party right now. The current "mccain has already lost" narrative will discourage weak mccain supporters.
3. Sarah Palin has lost the independents.
4. Democratic enthusiasm is extremely high, early voting numbers have Obama up 19%? At this rate, McCain's support will have to be overwhelming on election day to make up the difference and bring it down.
5. If the perfect campaign Obama has run so far is any indication, Obama's wednesday night TV event will likely result in another bump that will further increase enthusiasm and voter turnout. I expect a STRONG close.
takestock said...
McCain also tied his energy policy to new jobs, telling Maria Bartiromo that his plan to build "forty five nuclear power plants brings seven hundred jobs to America."
Wow, 700 jobs over several years. And he wonders why he's losing?
Will any of them be like Homer Simpson and screw everything up? Did you hear McCain joke about the possibility of a nuclear spill at a plant? Maybe he hasn't heard of Chernobyl.
Simeon said...
So porridgegun, have you come down off of the ledge yet?
Never was.
What I was getting at yesterday was that McCain's gains in the last few days is inexpicable to me. Today's spread in PEW is the first I've seen this week that actually reflects the meltdown of the Republican ticket. They had become unhinged weeks ago. Now both camps are getting snippy with each other. With low morale and in-fighting, McCain SHOULD be below 40%. Whether this poll does reflect voters intentions is another thing, but I'll take it for what it's worth: NARRATIVE.
"The reporter mentions Chuck Todd of NBC and congratulates the media "for not trying to boost ratings to artificially prolong suspense."
I call this the Goldwater Effect.
In 1964, as Bill Paley was warning of the influence of advertising on news networks, the attention to the Presidential race became cursory once the few polling sources at the time declared it a blowout in late September.
As a result, there was a noticable downward arc in ratings and election night coverage was unwatched past 8 PM on the east coast.
Forward to today where there are 400 channels and many more news networks aiming for a sliver of the market share.
Now more than ever, the networks need ratings to sell advertising. They are slaves to advertising - it is a business. Giving Obama 270 plus on October 1 is not in the cards and never was.
As much as I respect Chuck Todd, he had the look of a man who was hog tied on the reality he knew existed in this race.
I wrote an article on Newsvine/ MSNBC on this topic last week. I will post it.
"The reporter mentions Chuck Todd of NBC and congratulates the media "for not trying to boost ratings to artificially prolong suspense."
I call this the Goldwater Effect.
In 1964, as Bill Paley was warning of the influence of advertising on news networks, the attention to the Presidential race became cursory once the few polling sources at the time declared it a blowout in late September.
As a result, there was a noticable downward arc in ratings and election night coverage was unwatched past 8 PM on the east coast.
Forward to today where there are 400 channels and many more news networks aiming for a sliver of the market share.
Now more than ever, the networks need ratings to sell advertising. They are slaves to advertising - it is a business. Giving Obama 270 plus on October 1 is not in the cards and never was.
As much as I respect Chuck Todd, he had the look of a man who was hog tied on the reality he knew existed in this race.
I wrote an article on Newsvine/ MSNBC on this topic last week. I will post it.
for the millionth time, alaska law doesn't allow for appointment to substitute a senator.
if stevens gets elected and then steps down or is kicked out, they would have a special election.
ulizeren?
eric,
It comes down to PA. If VA is truly lost, then McCain has to get PA. And likely Colorado.
PA tracking finally came in. 53/41 (M up 1 since yesterday).
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/studorgs/polling/documents/Release_10_27.pdf
i dont think "leaners" are going to stand in line for hours to vote for a projected loser.
The new Pew poll is, in a word, stunning.
Obama has a 19 point lead among those who have already voted. and an almost as large lead among RVs. Amazing poll.
http://people-press.org/report/465/mccain-support-declines
I wonder how RCP will deal with this poll. It shows a blow out when RCP is trying to keep the margin at no more than 6.5.
2004 final Pew poll:
Bush 51%
Kerry 48%
Actual 2004 results:
Bush 50.73%
Kerry 48.27%
!stepper
they'll sub it out for newsweek.
If Stevens resigns after winning, Alaska would have a special election. Palin would not appoint a succesor.
Anyone wanting to make comparison with 2004 poll should note that election day then was Nov 2, so the Tuesday before was October 26 for anyone wanting to make exact comparisons.
Voice of the Midwest,
I look forward to seeing your article on MSNBC.
McCain made a joke about spillage from a nuclear power plant? Forget Chernobyl. Evidently he hasn't heard of Three Mile Island, either. Yup yup, right there in PA.
And does he have a clue how many years it takes to get a nuclear power plant online? Isn't it something like 15?
T Boone must not be liking this much, either.
"2004 final Pew poll:"
Tipp was just as close. The two outliers this time were in agreement last time :)
stepper said...
The new Pew poll is, in a word, stunning.
The new Pew poll is, in a word, unlikely.
Reid:
Byrd out as chairman of appropriations
Inyoue (D-HI) in
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/15013.html
"Reid has so far resisted calls to punish Lieberman by taking away his chairmanship of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. But if the Democrats’ Senate majority grows large enough that Lieberman’s vote isn’t needed, his colleagues are unlikely to welcome him back into the Democratic Caucus after the election.
Reid and his advisers — still hoping to avoid a confrontation with the Democrats’ 2000 vice presidential nominee — prefer that Lieberman “do the right thing and take care of this on his own” by voluntarily leaving the Democratic Caucus, a source close to Reid said.
"
Mason Dixon NH Obama up 50-39
In NC Mason Dixon has it at a tie
And McCain is only up 48-44 in Montana
Are those new?
Dissing Drudge might be getting a little tired, but I am wondering where his "SHOCK POLL" siren headline is with this new Pew Poll.
Honestly, I'm skeptical. The truth is somewhere in between IBD/TIPP and Pew; probably 7 points, which is nearly what the RCP average is and nearly what Nate projects.
To be fair, Pew was slightly more accurate than TIPP in 2004.
TIPP's final poll: B 50.1, K 48.0
Error: B -.63, K -.27, total .90
Pew's final poll: B 51, K 48
Error: B +.27, K -.27, total .54
How's that for splitting hairs. :-)
So again... if that MT poll is Obama only down 4 down from 25 for Bush, that is why I believe a high single-low double digit lead nationally makes since... Wisconson was a one point Kerry win in 2004 and is now a middle double digit for Obama...
Alaska - all for one and one for all:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/ensign-stevenss-career-ends-in-disgrace-2008-10-27.html
****
Stevens, 84, was convicted Monday on seven felony charges for making false statements. The senator, in a statement, proclaimed his innocence and said he would still seek reelection for a seventh full term.
His junior Alaska Republican counterpart, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, echoed Stevens's contention that he was treated unfairly by the Justice Department and said she would stand by him as he appeals the ruling.
"He stood for Alaskans for 40 years and I plan to continue to stand with him," she said.
Alaska Rep. Don Young (R) also said he still supported Stevens.
****
BTW, there's a way to get past the word verification...
I hadn't "swore" Obama would be below 50% in Rasmussen, I predicted it. WHY, because when a candidate loses 3% overnight in a so-called "stable" poll, his largest drop-off for over a month, it's not hard to imagine another point or two drop-off the following day.
Apparently Obama had a pretty decent Monday night in Rasmussen, which NOBODY was predicting.
"How's that for splitting hairs. :-)"
Wonderful.
Back to Ted Stevens potential for re-election. In the Post Politics Hour chat (which is going on right now), the WaPo reporter stated that he spent some time in Alaska recently. Many people up there don't trust the motives of the DC jury.
Paulson's gone almost immediately regardless of who is elected. That's been obvious for at least a month now, I think. I expect that Treasury Secretary to be the first cabinet position named.
How about Sheila Bair for Treasury Secretary? She has been very involved in managing several of the major takeovers (Wachovia by Citigroup, WaMu by JP Morgan Chase). With the possible exception of clashing with Paulson and the White House on providing more assistance for individual mortgage-holders to forestall foreclosure (a policy position shared at least in principle by Obama and most Democrats), she has mostly remained outside the political fray of the $700B bailout. She's very well qualified to manage reorganization of the US banking system, which will be the primary focus of the Treasury Secretary for the foreseeable future. And it would be helpful to remain some semblance of continuity in the agency's senior management of an ad hoc policy that is unprecedented in scope.
"it's not hard to imagine another point or two drop-off the following day."
Why?
Could Alaska be like the Youngstown area that would have re-elected Traficant even if he had to cast votes from his prison cell?
kittles93 said...
eric,
It comes down to PA. If VA is truly lost, then McCain has to get PA. And likely Colorado.
How exactly does he win Pennsylvania? I don't see it happening!
Once again, third parties are far FAR more viable in Minnesota than most other states. His support will not be collapsing as much as you believe.
If Alaska were to re-elect Stevens, the Senate would be well within their rights to expel him.
How about this for a wild scenario...
Tomorrow Stevens resigns his Senate seat, then Palin resigns as Governor. Lieutenant Sean Parnell becomes Governor and appoints Palin to fill the vacant Senate seat. Obviously its too late to remove Stevens' name from the ballot, so voters are told by Alaska's Secretary of State that a vote for Stevens will be counted as a vote for Palin, who still stays on the McCain ticket as VP. She's popular in the state and would easily wins the Senate race. If McCain wins the presidential race, she resigns as Senator and becomes VP. If McCain loses, she goes to the US Senate and gets ready for 2012.
Look at this:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_obama-244.html
7 pollsters: Obama +9, 13, 12, 11, 13, 10, 8
Average 10.8
The average nationally is 6.1
The difference between Pennsylvania and national popular vote was 4% in 2004, Bush won nationally by 2.5 and lost PA by 1.5. It was 4% bluer in 2000. gore won by 0.5% nationally and 5% in PA and it's 4-5% bluer in 2008. There would have to be some hyper-Bradley effect/GOT racist V for PA to go to McCain. There's no way. I don't believe it's a reasonable proposition. The votes aren't there.
I received an email @ 8 AM this morning from Team Obama about the 11 PM Wed night rally in Kissimmee
not sure about that choice...
first is is gonna be outdoors, and we are having cool nights this week
second, if you go to the rally, you will miss the 9PM primetime speech
third, IF the Rays are still alive in the World Series, game 6 is supposed to be played that night in Tampa Bay
I would like to go, but it is 90 minutes from my home & I would not get back until 1 or 2 am...
why not do it @ 8 or 9 PM in a large stadium like the old Citrus Bowl & let the crowd watch the TV address as a preview on big screens ?
hhmmm
my secret word is 'roxing'
1. alaska senator does NOT appoint a vacant senate seat
2. she would NOT win easily the senate race at this point
3. she would not give up a certain gov position for a possible sen place
eric, i dont understand why anyone is buying into the hype that PA is winnable for McCain
if he cant win VA, its no way in hell he is even competative in PA.
dcm in fla,
It's all about winning more news cycle. Obama thinks having it at 11will win them more news cycles. Thats how they made it sound on Hardball yesterday.
Also most people at the rally are going to be voing for Obama and they wont need to watch the prime time special because there mind is made up.
T Boone is an 80 yr old man that wants to make a difference, either to satisfy his ego or because he really wants to do good, maybe both. These oil prices falling so dramatically have hurt his plan a lot lately. Mosto f his money is still tied up in oil and prices have dropped over 50% in the last couple months. This is the one good thing in t he economy lately. But, T Boone lost over $1 billion, close to half his money in value. also, his energy plan is less driving for Congress and the American public and others. For things to get on the front-burner, a sense of urgency helps. He's trying to create that with his ad blitz, this drop is just bad timing for that. The his Okies lost to my Horns on Saturday. I almost feel sorry for him.
eric,
I grew up in and still work in PA.
I agree it is a long shot.
But McCain is out of other options. I think it is a decent strategy. The problem with the strategy, though, is that all the time spent in PA means Obama and Biden can tackle other states.
Campaigning McCain and Palin together makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. None.
mccain was close in PA, once? right after the palin pick and convention bounces?
even then he wasnt "winning" PA.
PA is a delusion because the campaign doesnt want to concede that it isnt able to play offense.
If Stevens won and resigned, Palin could run in the special election without giving up her job. If she lost, she'd still be governor.
"How exactly does he win Pennsylvania? I don't see it happening!"
Polls off in his favor + massive last-minute shift toward him
PEW poll is fantastic
especially considering that RCP dropped all the nationalpolls from 10/22 or earlier from the average today - thereby making it look like a BIG move toward Mac with the average appearing to drop over a point in one night from 7+ to 6+
they did the same thing last week to shift the average lead down to 5 - then it started back up into the 7-8 range as the new national polls dropped
assuming PEW does get back into the RCP average today [of course with RCP there is no guarantee & it is not entered yet btw], the average of polls will instantly jump back up into the 7+ range - BIG MO for Obama [not]
just more noise...
even Zogby [reluctantly] admitted the stability of the race deep inside his commentary today:
'The race for President has seen ebbs and flows for the candidates, but it remains remarkably stable down the stretch. Compared to their numbers at the beginning of the daily tracking poll three weeks ago, Obama has increased his support by 1.3 points, while McCain’s support has decreased by 0.6 points.
Among those voters who have already cast ballots, Obama continues to lead – today by 18 points, while Obama and McCain are dead–even among those who are likely to vote but who have not yet cast their ballots."
so John admitted that over the 3 weeks of his tracker, Obama has actually increased his lead by almost +2% [1.9] relative to McCain...
and Obama has an 18% lead among the early votes cast...
WOW
Polls off in his favor + massive last-minute shift toward him
I think the point is, if there is a massive last-minute shift toward McCain, he will win in CO and VA before he wins in PA.
@ DCM
The whole point is to be live on the local news. True, you'll miss the TV special, but people at the rally probably don't need to be persuaded. :-)
McCain is a good man he's just overly ambitious and surounds himsel with assholes
INB my 71 years of existance and experience of observing human nature, one observation is that most people who surround themselves with assholes do so because they are also assholes and usually the biggest asshole of the bunch
kittles,
I can think of only two reasons Mc & P are campaigning together:
1) they want Mc to appear in front of larger crowds for message and photo ops and
2) they don't trust P as far as they can throw her and need to control the message.
"I think the point is, if there is a massive last-minute shift toward McCain, he will win in CO and VA before he wins in PA."
No, because early voting insulates Obama from a last-minute surge. He'll likely have VA and CO wrapped up in all remotely plausible scenarios just through early voting.
grandpa john
INB my 71 years of existance and experience of observing human nature, one observation is that most people who surround themselves with assholes do so because they are also assholes and usually the biggest asshole of the bunch
Great argument for Mc as the alpha asshole
Proclaiming his innocence, convicted Republican Sen. Ted Stevens asked Alaskans to "stand with me" as he pledged to defend the Senate seat he has held since 1968.
Sen. Ted Stevens leaves the federal courthouse in Washington after being convicted Monday.
"I ask that Alaskans and my Senate colleagues stand with me as I pursue my rights," Stevens, the longest serving Republican in the Senate, said in a statement Monday. " I remain a candidate for the United States Senate."
Why would Palin want to serve in the US Senate at this point in her career?
Very junior senators who are party ideologues in the minority party are rarely afforded the opportunity to make a substantial contribution on policy. Any bill that she co-sponsored would be buried by the Democratic leadership, as they would not want to give her any platform of legislative accomplishment to run on in 2012. She has a much better opportunity to make a name for herself and build up her resume as a governor than as a low-ranking senator. Whatever small advantage serving in the Senate might give her in terms of foreign policy experience, it would be offset by the anonymity and irrelevance of being an ineffective senator.
InkStain said...
"How exactly does he win Pennsylvania? I don't see it happening!"
Polls off in his favor + massive last-minute shift toward him
Completely unreasonable. I know you're giving me the only logical explanation, bt if you were sitting in a strategy meeting for electoral votes and someone argued that and it became consensus opinion, I know you'd think they were steering wrong. I know I do. It's a bad play. Again 2000 Pennsylvania is exactly 4-5% bluer than national numbers. 2004, 4-5% bluer. 2008, 4-5% bluer according to polls. So, the only way the polls would be that off is "Bradley Effect", about 5%+ worth. not racism, straight up lying to pollsters. Lynn Swann actually did better than the polls suggested he would against Rendell. In a big, diverse state, there's no way that "Bradley Effect" accounts for 5%+. In order for McCain to win Pennsylvania, I think he needs to win the popular vote by at least 4%. I think the odds of that are about 1 in 100,000.
In today's Playbook, Mike Allen reported the following:
***In convo with Playbook, a top McCain adviser one-ups the priceless “diva” description, calling her “a whack job.”
with Obama having a presumed 18%-19% early voting lead so far according to zogby and pew.
Does anyone believe that McCain will overwhelmingly win the election day, long line voters?
OK so this is tedius but
State 20004 2008 projections
AK R 26 R 15
AL R 26 R 21.5
AR R 10 R 12
AZ R 10 R 7.9
CA D 10 D 19.8
CO R 5 D 6.6
CT D 20 D 20
DC D 80 D 80
DE D 8 D 20.5
FL R 5 D 3
GA R 17 R 4.2
HI D 9 D 28.3
IA R 1 D 11.3
ID R 38 R 24
IL D 10 D 22.7
IN R 21 R 0.3
KS R 16 R 13
KY R 21 R 14.9
LA R 14 R 11.2
MA D 15 R 22.9
MD D 12 R 28.3
ME D 9 D 14.4
MI D 3 D 12.2
MN D 3 D 10.3
Ok I'll do the rest in a bit but this is why a double digit lead seems possible to me...
newsinoh,
I agree those are the reasons. Doesn't make them good or rational ones. You need to spread your resources right now, including the candidates.
inkstain,
VA does not have much in the way of early voting.
No, I won't bet someone their $10 to my $1,000,000 that McCain wins Pennsylvania.
derek,
wow, mccain managed to accrue a >20% advantage in MA and MD!?!?!
MCCCAIN SURGE!!!
There's not much change in the Pew numbers from last week. Mostly, their poll seems to differ from others in registering signficantly softer support for McCain rather than significantly stronger support for Obama. Most polls peg McCain around 45, Obama around 51 (Nate, 46 for McCain, 52.4 for Obama; RCP, 44.1 for McCain, 50.3 for Obama). Pew is high, but not out of line in terms of Obama, but it is quite different with respect to McCain. So we can figure, I think, that most of those undecideds would belong to McCain in other polls. The question would be whether this represents support that McCain is actually at risk of losing (either because it shifts to Obama or because it decides to stay home). If so, it could mean a major blow out.
Word verification tells me that this is a "slessei" post.
"VA does not have much in the way of early voting."
My bad, I was under the impression that they did. But retaking Virginia doesn't save McCain if Colorado is really gone.
SLICK
your points are taken & are logical
BUT, IF the Clinton/Obama rally fails to draw an enormous crowd [at least 50,000+] it will be seen as a drop in enthusiasm & be spun as a failure as well as being in bad form IMHO
IF I am wavering about attending, I have every reason to believe that many others will as well - since the real hard-core supporters were at the Hillary/Barack rally in O-Town just last Monday early evening
I may sound like a concern troll - but this idea of a late rally is a risky prop that could backfire IMHO
on the night the Rays may play [which is a big deal in Central FL, including in the O-Town area] and the late night rally is clear south of town by Disney & the attractions = not a great idea
play it safe & have a rally on campus of UCF at the new stadium where his base will be easy to reach & willing to stay up late
like I said, I clearfed my schedule Wed when the rumor got out about a rally in O-Town
but I am leaning NO on going to Kissimmee for a rally @ 11 PM - which is extremely disappointing
hope they can sell it though, but I do not see them drawing 100,000 like they easily would in another location at another time
grandpa john, good call.
I was just asking my wife last night. Why does John McCain have such a great reputation despite his history?
What I know of John McCain isnt exactly positive. Sure he was a prisoner of war and served our country. Give him a point for that.
But he also has Poor temperment, was rowdy and reckless in his younger days, left his injured wife, keating 5, and covering up for cindy mccain, who stole money from a charity to support her drug habit. And on top of this campaign he has run, he has proven to be liar and lack integrity, he says he hates "gooks", he was against MLK day.
The guy is an asshole, just like his brother.
newsinOH said...
kittles,
I can think of only two reasons Mc & P are campaigning together:
1) they want Mc to appear in front of larger crowds for message and photo ops and
2) they don't trust P as far as they can throw her and need to control the message.
and 3) they want to demonstrate unity after this weekend's news on Palin going rogue and McCain trying to blame Palin
Obama in Iowa on Friday
if the 7% undecided in the pew numbers were to stay home, the margin would be even higher, with Obama winning by 17%, if all they break for Mccain, it still is 8% win.
Obama's childhood home in Indonesia up for sale
If I'm McCain, I'd much rather take my chances in CO - even with early voting - than in PA. At least the polls in CO are within the margin of error.
POW
RCP just added the new PEW poll into their average
in one fell swoop, Obama is back up to a nice +7.2 lead on Mac
sorry, but this is almost getting predictable, no ?
one week to go...
new thread
"If I'm McCain, I'd much rather take my chances in CO - even with early voting - than in PA. At least the polls in CO are within the margin of error."
If you take back Colorado, you have to take back Virginia too.
Pennsylvania, though unreasonable, is the one state that would let cut into the "can't afford a single loss" problem.
MSNBC To Air Obama "Program"
andrew, that new thread is over an hour old, lol
PEW #'s do look too good to be true if you are a DEM...
BUT they are in line with the Gallup Expanded LV [53-43] & Newsweek LV [53-41]
also very similar to their poll from last week [53-39 but with 2x the sample]
so if nothing else, it confirms stability in the race with Obama drawing 50%+ which are the real trends we should be monitoring anyway at this late date IMHO
Obama's residence:
Barack lived in Hawaii with his mother and maternal grandparents from the time he was born until he was 6 years old (1961-1967). his father left very early, befor Barck was 2.
From 6-10 yrs old, he lived in Indonesia 1967-71) with his Mom and her second husband.
From 10-18 yrs old he lived with his maternal grandparents in Hawaii. (1971-1979, I think)
He went to Occidental College in Los Angeles (1979-1981)
transferred to Columbia in New York City (1981-1983, stayed until 1985)
went to Chicago to community organize and work. (Chicago 1985-1989 I think)
went to Harvard Law in Boston 1989-1991
...back to Chicago in 1991, meets Michelle at a law firm. Practices law, teaches law at University of Chicago, writes Dreams of My father in 1995, runs for South side Chicago rep in Illinois Legislature in 1996. Serves there between 1996-2004 between Springfield, Illinois and Chicago. in 2000 runs unsuccesfully to be in the US House of representaitives against an unbeatable opponent. Tries to get into the Dem convention in 2000, but can't. 2002 gives his first big national speech against the Iraq War where he catches some folks eye. 2004 gives no red and blue America speech at Dem Convention for Kerry. Becomes a star and wins a landslide for Illinois Senate Seat in 2004. Lives in washington and Chicago 2004-2006 Writes Audacity of Hope in 2005. Declares Presidential run a couple years later. Runs great campaign. Lives in Chicago, and the road. This is where we are today.
Under current Connecticut law, Governor Rell would appoint Lieberman's successor, but Democrats control the General Assembly by veto-proof margins and would presumably do like what Massachusetts did in 2004 and enact a statute providing for a special election.
Dropping pre-conviction numbers is, IMO, a mistake. It assumes a) that all voters in Alaska will have heard about the conviction and the circumstances before voting; b) that voters will care about the conviction; and c) some part of the electorate will not see the conviction as the nefarious goings on in DC to strip Alaska of its rights.
I would like a congressional investigation into McBarbie's association with this convicted felon, Stevens. We just don't know enough about this association and McBarbie still hasn't told us all about it. Don't vote for someone that associates with unrepentant felons.
Well, Taft was Ohio... Steven's is Alaska and they think differently up there. I don't know that you can draw a correlation between the two states.
Palin is positioning herself for national office... distancing herself from an imploding McCain campaign.
SpeciousRiches!
Curious question: is there any example of an extaordinary event that was good for a candidate (beyond something bad for his/her opponent). It seems that almost all extraordinary events are negative, e.g. crime, scandal, etc. How does tragedy (illness, death in the family) befalling a candidate tend to effect polls? Has a candidate ever done something so ostensibly good (donation to charity, saving someone in a fire, ...) that it actually affected polls?
How many of the Class of 2008 Senate Freshmans are going to be one termers or face tough re-election campaigns in 2014
1)Mark Begich(AK)
2)Kay Hagan(NC)
3)Bruce Lunsford(KY)
4)Jim Martin(GA)
I am trying to reconcile a discrepancy. The expected number of democratic Senate seats is listed as 57.0, according to the pie chart. However, if you look at the bar graph, you can see that the total area, which is the same thing, is 58.0. Since two of these are actually independents, that means there will be 56.0 democrats. Can anyone reconcile these numbers?
Don't count out Uncle Ted yet. Anchorage Daily News (www.adn.com) fronts a big story about the hero's welcome he got in Anchorage. I lived in Anchorage long enough to know that this is still going to be close. I still think he will lose, but Uncle Ted looms much larger in Alaska politics than even the Tafts in Ohio (which is not an apt comparison). Big deal if two of three of AK's seats go D: look for the sun to rise in the West on Nov 5.
I live in Anchorage, Alaska, and I can say that the pulse of this place is pounding for Begich (who is the mayor here, after all). Never in my 32 years has Stevens looked so much like a sure loss.
However, the rest of the state, which comprises around half the population, doesn't necessarily see it this way. Alaskan's of many stripes can see what he brings home and will vote for him even if he dies. I bet it's a closer race than you'd expect from a felon.
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^^ nice blog!! ^@^
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