10.20.2008

Senate Projections, 10/20

Our Senate projections are little changed from our last update six days ago. We currently project the composition of the new Senate to be 56.7 Democrats, 41.3 Republicans, and 2.0 independents; this is not significantly changed from 56.6-41.4-2.0 last week. We furthermore show the Democrats as having a 32 percent chance to control a 60-seat caucus (counting independents Joe Lieberman and Bernie Sanders), up incrementally from 30 percent last week.



Although there has been a lot of polling within the past several days, much of it from Research 2000, for the most part it has been in line with expectations.

As before, the Democrats have a fairly clear path to 59 seats, which would involve their picking up Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado, New Hampshire, Oregon, North Carolina, Alaska and Minnesota, all of which they are presently favored in (although in several cases only barely so). They could then pick up a 60th seat between Mississippi, Georgia or Kentucky, or -- less likely -- Texas. While several of these races are quite competitive, none of them have quite broken through to toss-up or lean Democrat. The interesting thing for the Democrats, however, is that most of these races are in the South, where Barack Obama overperformed his polls during the primaries. If the same thing happens during the general election -- because the pollsters have underestimated African-American turnout and so forth -- then pickups in Mississippi and Georgia would seem as likely as not. Kentucky, where Obama has fewer coattails, where the Democratic nominee is perhaps slightly more liberal than optimal, and where the Republicans will pull out all the stops to save Mitch McConnell, may be a tougher proposition.


250 comments

Chi said...

Where is everybody?

Ryan said...

Why does Minnesota always insist on being entirely ridiculous?

Aussie said...

Well chi, I'm in Australia...

Yvonne said...

Chi, probably in bed, unless you are on the West Cost.

NATE, can you find out what the Obama campaign is doing about the reports from W.VA. voting machines flipping to Republicans after people voted Democrats?

jwhit said...

I'm surprised Lieberman would be expected to support his former party since he's pretty much an honorary Republican via his support of McCain. I saw a shot of them together yesterday and nearly threw a shoe at the TV.

Aussie said...

ryan,

demographics?

NC_voter said...

besides the two outlier survey usa polls, dole hasn't had in lead in over a month. Seems about right!

As part of Obama's ground game and a resident of NC, I can assure you people are sick of dole.

Obama will win NC.
Hagan will as well.

20% chance for a lieberman-free democratically controlled senate? I like those odds!

Aussie said...

Yvonne said...

NATE, can you find out what the Obama campaign is doing about the reports from W.VA. voting machines flipping to Republicans after people voted Democrats?

DITTO - this is extremly concerning. Can the machine be publicly scrutinized?

Yvonne said...

NC, are there any problems expected with voting machines in North Carolina?

Aussie said...

yvonne....

If the SOC is republican - you can bet there will be. You need to get some lawyers down to the ballot centers

Chi said...

Yeah guys and gals, I'm in the West Coast - San Francisco. It's getting late, I should hit the sac. Nightie night. (And good afternoon to you, aussie).

Yvonne said...

Well, I have to go to bed too. I am in California and have to get up at 7 am.
I will revisit this voting issue tomorrow.

Kris said...

"I'm surprised Lieberman would be expected to support his former party since he's pretty much an honorary Republican via his support of McCain. I saw a shot of them together yesterday and nearly threw a shoe at the TV."

I can relate. I was watching McCain give his "spread the wealth" speech today, and I realized that I was clenching my teeth so hard, that my front were in danger of cracking. Now it seems that John McCain is bad for my health in both the present and future tense.

Aussie said...

Nite chi

Aussie said...

nite yvonne

Aussie said...

kris,
I can't watch McCain at all now. I m so disappointed with the change in him from 2000 - I respected him then. Hard to reconcile now though.

Marx was right said...

San Francisco here - From the last thread, the reason the Dems don't investigate voter fraud is because they lost their spines long ago and play the battered wives to the bullying Republicans.

They cave on everything of substance.

I'll vote for Obama (first time ever voting for one of the 2 main party candidates for any office), but at least in my district there is also a chance to vote for Cindy Sheehan against the spineless and brainless Pelosi.

Davy said...

Dang I'm 17th!

Aussie said...

Why is Pelosi so unpopular? and can President Obama determine who will be the Majority leader?

CheGuevara said...

We need to leave no doubt and take nothing for granted, we need to push for all seats that are incontention to flip to blue. MS Wicker, Chambliss, McConnell, Stevens, Dole, Smith, Coleman and Cornyn need to be defeated to counteract the prospect of a post-election Lieberman flip. 62-38 (assuming we run the table and Lieberman flips) would give us not only the filibuster-proofing, but would give some of our southern blue dog members the opportunity to take some political cover they'd need in sticky votes.

The time to start working for a Permanent Democratic Majority is now, people. Donate, volunteer, agitate.

k said...

Well Aussie. My brother, mom and sister-in-law who are Australian-American dual citizens are doing their parts for both countries. Seems kind of unfair that they get to vote for most of ANZUS, but 2 of those votes go to Democrats in Texas so good for them.

I'm going to come back out there again to live, I just hope you guys have gotten rid of Pauline Hanson. My last visit, her campaign ads were aired 24/7 and even made me feel sick, already inundated with Gingrich's vomitous libel for a year here.

Nick said...

I'd be curious to hear what brand the W. Va voting machines are. None of the stories I could find say.

From one of the articles:
Wood said, "Voting machines are very reliable. I hate the fact that stories like this are printed. It makes everybody get scared."

Conspiracy theories aside, that's quite an asinine thing to say... Electronic voting has a terrible track record so far in the US. Even if you assume everyone involved has good intentions and the machines are unhackable (lol), the reliability, tabulation, and accountability problems make them a nightmare.

I yearn for the 'ol days where both parties can watch the vote, shake hands afterwards, and feel confident about the state of the election.

Michael said...

No, Aussie, the President has no role in determining who is the Majority Leader in the Senate, nor the Speaker of the House. Those bodies decide who their leadership is themselves.

k said...

I think I best remember the politics in Australia from Howard giving a press conference from a floating pool chair with a beer in his hand. Truly a better way.

Marx was right said...

Aussie: Pelosi is corporate owned. Demands for accountability from her constituents are ignored. Repeated funding for Iraq war. Selling us down the river for corporate interests. She started off her decline with "Impeachment is off the table." And it's obvious why - she is complicit in a lot of the illegal stuff that went down during the Bush administration. Hence the FISA vote, which Obama was bullied into signing as cover.

It's the usual bullshit.

Sheehan has formally asked Pelosi to join her in a debate, which of course Pelosi has ignored. At least so far.

Sheehan beating Pelosi would shake the Washington elite to their core. It's not going to happen, of course. Sheehan will probably garner about 10% of the vote. But the locals are VERY unhappy with Pelosi. Her popularity runs somewhere from 35-40%, if that, but I'm not sure how recent that poll is. It could be worse now if that's not a recent poll I remembered reading.

Mike B. said...

Obama will have no official say over the composition of party leadership in Congress. He'd have informal influence over the process if he wanted to use it, but why would he? He'd make enemies...powerful ones, if he didn't get his way.

The last thing he wants is to win and have a hostile Congress from his own party, like Clinton did.

k said...

I don't know any democrats that are happy with Pelosi. Most of the people down here really hate Jane Harman, Jim Costa, Dennis Cardoza and Joe Baca as well (D-CA) as our reps too, but can't do much to kick them out besides electing a Republican. I'd rather vote for a Pig-Party representative at this point than to choose between a blue dog and a Republican.

I'm just speaking for the unanimously pro-union people at Los Angeles harbor though, I'm sure a lot of blue dogs have some respect in their local areas.

txobserver said...

Marx was right -- I'm sorry to say, but this liberal Dem from the Bay Area thinks you are a nut.

Aussie said...

K
yes Pauline Hanson was a major embarrasment and a very poor chapter in our political history. She appealed to exactly the same fools that Palin appeals to.

It might cheer up all the Americans on this site to know that she has faded into total obscurity here now.

Welcome back to Oz... for when you get here...

Aussie said...

I note the comments about the unpopularity of many Dem Senators from K and Marx was right.

Watch the change that someone like Obama can make by attracting better candidates or by making the current elected officials pick up their act.

I've seen similar things in the military when a really inspirational Commander gets posted in. The Unit as a whole can be transformed. (What's the opposite of a concern Troll?).

RedHawksO4 said...

Even if the Dems don't quite get 60 seats, 58 or 59 will in all reality be good enough for a filibuster proof majority on the vast majority of important bills. Therefore, things are looking great...

The End of the American Honeymoon

Eric said...

Thought I'd mention a blog from Princeton's Center for Information Technology Policy dealing with electronic voting security, or lack thereof.

http://freedom-to-tinker.com/tags/voting

Most of the recent postings have been on the Sequioa machines they're using in New Jersey and other parts of the northeast, but in the past they've looked into Diebold and other voting machine vendors.

Basically, it takes less than 5 minutes to undetectably alter all votes cast on a particular machine if you have physical access, which could occur on election day or before, where many voting machines are left in the open completely unprotected for days at a time. Even barring intentional tampering, the systems are not robust and have frequently failed in practice, including the loss of votes that isn't discovered until much later.

OzFrog said...

Hey Aussie! Nice to see another Australian poster here (Melbourne boy here). Very fascinating stuff indeed on 538.com, and I believe Obama has run a sensational campaign. The fact that people are actually *excited* to vote this year speaks volumes.

As for the Senate vote, 59 seats is good, but that would mean involving the Independents (one of them being Lieberman). If the Dems can get above 60, then it removes the need for Lieberman.

Let's see how it all turns out first though. The important thing is to get Obama elected :)

Rain33 said...

Hello OzFrog and Aussie...Kiwi here (New Zealand for the uninitiated) Nice to see such a down under presence. Sure are exciting times, any fingernails left by the end of it all you think?

Aussie said...

Eric said...
Thought I'd mention a blog from Princeton's Center for Information Technology Policy dealing with electronic voting security, or lack thereof
-----------------------------------

I think what America should look at the system that we have in Australia - The Federal Electoral Commission. It deals with ALL aspects of ALL public elections (Federal, State and Council), including the setting of electoral boundaries in each electorate.

It is totally independant. Allegations of voter fraud are so rare that they make National headlines. The kind of "routine" abuse that goes on in America would absolutely not be tolerated in Australia. I don't understand why there isn't more outrage in America over this.

Cugel said...

It looks like a pickup of eight Senate seats for the Democrats, so if you add Sanders and Lieberman that's 60.

But, there's nothing really critical about 60 votes. There will be some defections both ways on most legislation, with Lieberman and some other conservative Dems defecting, and perhaps 1 or 2 Republicans coming over to vote with the majority, so depending on the issue there will be a different way to get to 60 votes to invoke cloture -- it won't require 60 Dems.

What's more important is getting a majority for progressive legislation so that the Bush-Dogs don't dominate what Congress does.

A pickup of 7 or 8 will be critical for Obama to be able to govern effectively. Dems won't suddenly have some magic number if they get 60.

Of course, if Stevens wins his felony case he'll probably be re-elected. Alaskans seem to think that if the jury finds you not guilty of fraud, that means "I'm going to Disneyland!"

Martin will be helped in GA by Obama's GOTV efforts. It won't be enough for Obama to win Georgia, but it might push Martin over the line.

Franken in Minnesota would be helped by a big Obama turnout too.

Probably the opposite in Mississippi where Obama has no presence.

OzFrog said...

@ rain33

It's very similar in a lot of ways to our federal election last year... after 11 years of Howard, we were so glad to get rid of him at long last and have Kevin Rudd elected :)

From the time Rudd became Opposition Leader, everyone knew he was going to thrash Howard, no matter what kind of dirt was thrown at him (eerily similar to how all the dirt is being flung at Obama with hardly any effect whatsoever). There was a bit of a narrowing in the polls towards election day, but Rudd ended up defeating Howard on a 53-47 two-party-preferred basis.

I think it's going to be a similar margin on the popular vote with Obama and McCain, and considering we are now in the home stretch, I don't think the polls will change too much. Looking very forward to an Obama victory (and a well-deserved one at that).

Aussie said...

OzFrog & Rain33'

Hi!!! From Orange in Rural NSW.

Isn't it amazing how much interest there is in the rest of the world, how much hope there is that the US of A can get back to being the Nation that we all want it to be instead of this bizarre creature that it has become under W.

oct said...

The most disgusting form of voter suppression is the tactic used by Republicans to remove names from those registered because in one database the name is say "John F. Kennedy, Jr." But in another database it is "John F. Kennedy." In some states people are being purged from the rolls due to clerical errors that are not even the fault of the voter.

Oddly enough, republicans target predominantly democratic strongholds to purge the rolls.

k said...

Well the Bradley Effect may turn out to be a myth here, but I was wondering how you guy think that a similar situation could come play out in our closest allies, AUS and NZ.

We went over Pauline Hanson briefly, and her similarities to Sarah Palin. In some respects, Australia and New Zealand have been strongly distanced, politically, from our racist, religious right for some time. How would candidate similar to Obama do in your neck of the woods?

Rick said...

Aussie said...
"Allegations of voter fraud are so rare that they make National headlines. The kind of "routine" abuse that goes on in America would absolutely not be tolerated in Australia. I don't understand why there isn't more outrage in America over this."

General feeling of disenfranchisement. The overall feeling among the common person is often why bother? All politicians lie, they promise what they think will get them elected and never deliver anyways, etc, etc.

As for the voting machines, I think one of the biggest reforms that will be needed is a paper trail. We should not be trusting a purely electronic storage of voting results as there is no way to verify it or recount it later. Voting should either be through optical scanner sheets where the voting intentions are marked in advance and then scanned into the machine for faster counting or else the machine should be required to print out a paper ballot after you make your selections so that you can confirm your picks. Either route allows for disputing the electronically stored tabulation, which is a necessary step to prevent either party from manipulating the results.

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

Nathan said...

60 dems with or w/o lieberman seems pretty unlikely, but 57 or 58 will still go a long way in clearing up the current logjam of filibusters in the senate. I just hope Franken pulls in off in MN because he's hilarious, and when he actually gets serious he is very smart.

OzFrog said...

@ Nathan

Yeah you need someone like Franken in MN to counteract the rubbish that is Michelle Bachmann... now that is the kind of role model that *no one* should ever aspire to be like!

Rick said...

Nathan said...
"60 dems with or w/o lieberman seems pretty unlikely, but 57 or 58 will still go a long way in clearing up the current logjam of filibusters in the senate. I just hope Franken pulls in off in MN because he's hilarious, and when he actually gets serious he is very smart."

Actually, alot of his being hilarious is because he uses his intelligence to get to the root of the problem and then skewers it on a satirical note. This wit will almost certainly go with him into the senate and make for some very interesting speeches I don't doubt. I'd really love to see him become the defacto democratic fillibuster.

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

Bruce in AK said...

Nice analysis Cugel. Yes, Alaskans will probably re-elect Stevens if he's acquitted but I think it will be close. He is 84, which is also an issue. But Palin helps him.

I'm disappointed that Noriega isn't polling better down in Texas. Does anyone have any insight beyond the polls on how that race is doing?

Nice to see some Aussies and a Kiwi posting - if McCain comes back from the dead to win you may be getting some refugees. My wife threated as much in 2004 and I think she really means it this time. We were just in Oz in September.

xyz said...

Speaking of Franken, Chuck Todd was talking on MSNBC that "very senior" democrats have told him that they don't want 60 seats in the senate, they want around 58 as they believe they can get Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins to vote with them on important issues. He also said that the democrats don't want Franken to win.

k said...

Maybe it's an unrequited dream from my childhood: Seeing "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" selling out on store-shelves.

I've always thought that Franken would be a fundamentally positive politician because of his sense of what is fair. That he is doing well in a hard fought SENATE campaign, of all things, just motivates me to no end.

Aussie said...

In some ways I think that, though a 60 seat, filibuster proof majority would be nice, there are some reasons why it is not that important:

1. It improves negotiations and oversight.

2. Barrack Obama is an incredible politician who should be able to reach across the aisle and build coalitions.

3. The Republican party is on the nose at the moment and will be in a period of "psot electoral shock" They will have trouble being united within their own ranks, let alone able to focus on attacking a united and popular opposition.

4. The Independents in the senate will have some genuine power. Depending on their platforms, they will be amenable to getting their "earmarks" through in return for supporting the Democrats.

5. From here in Australia it really looks as if there has been a sea change in American politics. The electorate will exceed all records in voter turnout. This enthusiasm will change the way that the Reps behave. The blogosphere is especially relevant and has made the mainstream media’s failures less important.

Aussie said...

k said...
How would candidate similar to Obama do in your neck of the woods?

We have a VERY mulicultural society in Australia. Our Parliment is incredibly diverse, with Aboriginals, Asians, Arab (Christian and muslim) and even "the Greens" :)

Race wouldn't have come up. Having said that - we simply do not have an election process anywhere near as intense as the US.

Cugel said...

"I don't understand why there isn't more outrage in America over this."

The reason there isn't more outrage is because the media never reports about it.

1. Republicans benefit from vote suppression of minority voters and the poor. They quite openly think it's terrible that such people are allowed to vote at all, and certainly, they shouldn't be encouraged by making it easy for them.

2. Republicans also know that if minorities and the poor, especially inner-city poor voted at the same rate as rural whites and the rich, they'd never win another election.

3. Accordingly, they summon immense amounts of faux-outrage about "electoral fraud" (by minorities of course). In this election, the Republican mock-outrage propaganda campaign centers around ACORN, which is a non-profit which has registered over 1 million voters, mostly inner-city, poor and minorities.

4. Republicans theorize that these people are unlikely to vote for them. Thus they whip up fake hysteria over "voting fraud" by ACORN.

5. What actually happened is that some paid canvassers for ACORN are being paid low wages to collect signatures and pad their hours and voting lists with fake names. ACORN usually discovers this and fires the workers, but is required by state law everywhere to turn in ALL their signatures, even if they contain the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys (obviously fake).

6. The reason for the state law requiring ACORN to turn in ALL registrations, including fraudulent ones, is to prevent people from suppressing legitimate voters by throwing away voter registrations where they suspect the people won't vote for their candidate.

7. ACORN turns in the lists, while flagging for authorities which ones they think are fraudulent.

8. State Republicans and the Bush Justice Department then raid ACORN and accuse them of "vote fraud" based on the lists that ACORN turned in to them of suspicious registrations.

9. McCain goes on national TV and accuses ACORN of massive "vote fraud" and tries to tie Obama to ACORN.

10. Nobody in the media bothers to mention that NO actual vote fraud exists, because a voter claiming to vote as Tony Romo (Dallas Cowboys QB) would have to present an ID proving they were named Tony Romo, and containing a valid address -- which nobody not named Tony Romo will have!

11. Thus, no ACTUAL vote fraud which could affect the election takes place. No ID? Not allowed to vote. Problem solved.

12. Meanwhile MASSIVE Republican efforts at voter suppression which is actually a felony take place -- with almost NO media coverage.

13. Examples of the Massive Republican efforts at Voter Suppression: http://www.bradblog.com/?cat=243

a. "BREAKING: CA GOP Vote Registration Contractor Arrested for Registration Fraud, Perjury."

b. "Washington Post -- "Thousands of voters across the country must reestablish their eligibility in the next three weeks in order for their votes to count on Nov. 4, a result of new state registration systems that are incorrectly rejecting them...."

c. "Democrats Stay Mostly Silent While Thousands Are Illegally Purged from Voter Rolls..."

d, "Bogus "Voter Fraud Charges" Aim to Camouflage Voter Suppression" http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22383&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12387&cHash=41ba018b65

13. The media meanwhile spends all it's time ferreting out the NON-STORY of alleged "ACORN fraud."

If the election is close, these Republican vote suppression tactics might actually work. If the margin remains about 5-6% Obama lead, nothing the Re-thugs try will be enough to steal the election.

Simon Wood said...

K,

New Zealand vote for parties rather than individuals.

I'm from NZ and although our elections are getting increasingly presidential, we have a proportional system so major parties really have to cover their bases to maximise their vote.

We've got an election coming up in three weeks, and it looks likely we'll have five or six minor parties represented alongside Labour and National.

There's less empahsis on personal issues. Our last two prime ministers have been women. The right have tried to demonise Helen Clark, our current PM, as outside of mainstream society (wearing pant suits to meet the queen, and never marrying her partner), but it doesn't seem to make a dent in her popularity.

Labour might lose this election, but it's mostly because National have an effective government-in-waiting for the first time in a while. But any major party will not be able to govern alone, so they rely on minor parties to cobble together majority.

National's leader, John Key, actually compared himself to Obama recently. He claimed he was new, untainted by national politics etc. The more accurate comparison is probably Cameron in the UK.

Because oratory isn't really a part of the New Zealand political sphere, its difficult to judge how someone like Obama would go here. I find it hard to believe someone would be able to appeal to so many voters without pissing one of the smaller parties off on either the left or the right. Everyone seems to be much more pragmatic here.

Race hasn't been a big an issue as in the US or even Aus. Some politicans have flirted with ani-immigration and anti-Maori sentiments (National did well on this last time, but they probably scared away enough centreist voters to cost them the election), but no one's really had any great success with a Hanson-style approach.

The European/Maori relationship is a staple of NZ political discourse, but most politicians will compromise quite a lot depending on the makeup of parliament. There's little appetite for racial tensions among voters.

Maybe Nate could start a 120.com for the NZ election. Our polling is innacurate, sporadic and rarely scrutinised.

Blame said...

60 or 61 would be nice, but quality counts as well. Particularly when it comes to certain republicans.

I am dreaming of Stevens being offered retirement. Somewhere properly secured would be nice.

Rain33 said...

Hello k,

I really couldn't imagine the Bradley effect being a factor in New Zealand. The issues that could cause such an effect would be unlikely to line up here. It is a very tolerant place, first country in the world to give women the vote and have already have 2 female Prime Ministers. Also had the worlds first transsexual elected to Parliament and currently have a Muslim Member of Parliament. We also have a minimum number of seats allocated in the Parliament for indigenous people to ensure they are never under represented. Our current female PM is considered agnostic, joins in the gay parade and no-one bats an eye.
Obama is very well liked here in this 80% white country.

Rick said...

In regards to Alaska, I think I have a slightly different take on things or perhaps just a hope for a glimmer of sanity. If Stevens is aquitted you could well be right and he and Palin likely prop each other up as they are cast in roughly the same mold. However, Palin's activities having been in the scrutiny of the National Media look to have shown Alaskans some of the things she was up to that they hadn't really been made aware of. The cronyism, vindictiveness and secrecy are quite opposite of what she claims to have run on. It doesn't help that her small town mentality that has never caused her to think of larger issues and her lack of general curiosity and deep thought have also been spotlighted so clearly these past months. That isn't to say that she's stupid, because she certainly showed some cunning to move from small town mayor to governor at just the right time and she knows how to pander to the Alaskan crowd. But it has also been made very obvious what qualities she has faked but doesn't actually have. Now it is up to the Alaskan population to decide if they are content with that.

There is evidence that the same contractor that is linked to Stevens may also be linked to Palin. The personal email accounts to try to get around goverment record keeping. The ethics violations. Potential ties to AIP. The earlier mentioned cronyism and vindicitiveness. I think she will find herself in a fight just for a re-election, let alone trying to move any further forward. Particularly if she were to begin to lash out at those that she viewed as enemies who spoke out against her during her national run. Bear in mind that it appears that simply being neutral in your remarks rather than flowing over with glowing praise is enough to be labeled an enemy. I really cannot predict the outcome at all well as I don't know nearly enough about the Alaskan mindset, but in reading some of the opinion pieces in the Alaska Daily News as well as the comments to follow she's lost a significant portion of her sterling reputation.

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

Aussie said...

cudgel:

Holy crap...

bizkid23 said...

The new Zogby poll is out, great news for John McCain!

bizkid23 said...

Nate,

have you ever considered switching to WordPress for your blog? You could make the comments much easier to follow with that system, including nesting them into conversations.

Cheers

niedda said...

From another kiwi currently living in France.

New Zealand is the only democratic country in the Globe where you're allowed to vote as long as you legally reside there, even though you're not a citizen. I hold three passports one of which is NZ, I'll be voting National because I believe change is needed. In the USA I'll be voting for Obama for the same reason, but also because Obama will make an exceptional president.

I can't wait to go to NZ and Australia in about a month too spend the summer there.......

New Zealand is the best country in the world.

Aussie said...

niedda said...
New Zealand is the best country in the world.

That's because it is the Eighth State of Australia.

Blame said...

Rain

There is little evidence of a Bradley effect in America. If it ever existed it is probably dead now, and Bradley himself was probably the victim of no more than bad polling.

I like the idea of a "shy tory" effect. In essence when people have to choose between their beliefs & their interests, they will speak their beliefs & vote their interests.

Sadly this makes me suspect that Stevens will be reelected. Nobody has ever brought back more bacon.

On a better note, there may be rather more racists voting for Obama than expected. They might believe in racism, but they have a fair idea how the economy will run under McCain.

oct said...

We should all donate to ACORN to help as many people vote as possible.

Good night.

Foregone Conclusion said...

The Stevens Effect: being reluctant to say that you're voting for a crook, but voting for him anyway.

Aussie said...

Blame,

yes!

All politics is local.

Voters don't vote against their own self interest.

Even the most ignorant voter in America must realize that W has ruined the economy and America's International Standing.

Aussie said...

Can a foreigner donate to ACORN?

Nite oct

Blame said...

Rick

Palin is probably in big trouble back home for her cronyism & ethics violations. Good chance she is corrupt too.

However I doubt that her lack of interest in international affairs counts, or for that matter her lack of detailed knowledge of national affairs.

Alaska probably sees its membership within America as more of a marrage of convenience than a love match.

Aussie said...

Blame said...
However I doubt that her lack of interest in international affairs counts, or for that matter her lack of detailed knowledge of national affairs.

Sadly... probably true

But wouldn't being held up to international ridicule have an effect. I mean - wouldn't Alaskans be ashamed to re-elect her?
She's a laughing stock for god's sake!

HaHaHa HaHaHa HaHaHa HaHaHa HA HA HA

niedda said...

@aussie

I love Australia s well especially Western Australia, people are friendly and the landscape is beautifully and diverse, also the average IQ seems to be higher in this part of Australia, due to the number of kiwis who have settled there. :-)

I have relatives living in Canberra.....

Blame said...

aussie

Lol. Voters vote against their self interest all the time.

Voters vote for a mix of theire PERCIEVED self interests, and the PERCIEVED furthering of their beliefs.

Hence the number who voted anti-abortion and trickle-down-economics last time. How surprised they must be to see no change on abortion & the economy gone tits up, after 8 years!

niedda said...

@Aussie

ACT (Australia Capital Territory)is not a State, so that would make NZ the Seventh state?

SHERWICK said...

Latest GOP/McCain Talking Points Memo: Obama is responsible for the Nigerian Email Scams.

McCain: "We feel this will resonate with voters who are sick and tired of getting these email scams, and many of whom have lost their entire life savings to."

Aussie said...

niedda said...
@aussie

I love Australia s well especially Western Australia, people are friendly and the landscape is beautifully and diverse, also the average IQ seems to be higher in this part of Australia, due to the number of kiwis who have settled there. :-)

I have relatives living in Canberra.....

ROTFLMAO

I'm originally from Perth, so that just cracks me up....

Will the last person leaving NZ please turn out the lights.
(Actually not so true anymore, lots of people moving to NZ, Beautiful place (Lord of the Rings Country) and the housings cheap, economy on the rise, and not overly exposed to the global credit crunch).
LOL

Davy said...

Wow, really interesting to glance at MN and see the turn that Franken has taken in the last couple of months. Could that be a result of the negative ads or just the general direction of the nation?

Hincapie said...

Offtopic but....

Nate and the gang have now made it out in the world to international media hehe - I was rather surprised to see a big feature on him/the site in a big danish newspaper sunday.

Wont make sense to anyone, but here goes for the novelty:
http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20081019/valgiusa/710190016/

World famous now :)

Aussie said...

blame,

as per usual - you nailed it.

I hate not being articulate.

Probably a better way of putting it might be that when people finally realise that their party no longer represents what they want - they desert it.

The phrase "getting back to the base" acknowledges that the base is deserting due to a party's policy directions.
I think it will be heard alot in America amoung Republicans after 11/4.

SHERWICK said...

Anyone know the ABC News poll results that were supposed to be relased at midnight????!?!?!

Rick said...

So, does Senator McCain come off as badly rambling and hypocritical to you folks as he does to me in the following interview?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/interview_with_john_mccain_1.html

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

Aussie said...

Hincapie said...
Offtopic but....

World famous now :)

And he made a DOUBLE PAGE SPREAD in a Australian Newspaper! The Sunday Telegraph!!
a DOUBLE PAGE SPREAD
Sorry no link...

cora said...

zogby has it for today at 49.8 O 44.4 M which for any other polster would be 50 to 44. Zogby weighs by partylines as per the 2004 election. It's a 3 day tracker and the last day was conducted mainly after the Powell endorsement. Undecideds heavily shifted to Obama. The "bounce" on the last day (10/19) must have been really impressive. This movement should also be reflected by other pollsters later on. Powell might have closed the game

SHERWICK said...

cora, it's over. Did you hear what Powell said? It was devastating.

cora said...

Sherwick,

I think people are sick of smear tactics and hate robocalls. They feel like being treated as a bunch of brainwashed idiots. I sense Powell's endorsment is a huge shock, not as much in itself but for what he said, but lets wait and see. Some are trying to banalize it as blacks palling with other blacks. But they have to realizae Powell is just to great for this: he's a five star general from the largest desegregated institution in this country: the Armed Forces. He has appointed and promoted tons of officers during his career: had he taken racially biased decisions he would never have gotten to the top of the military.

Djn said...

Heh. The title of that danish article about Nate and this site is "They call him 'The man that can see around corners'".

RedHawksO4 said...

I wouldn't read too much into Zogby. He has been stable, but as Nate says, his weighting is a little off.

The Electoral College and Unemployment

Aussie said...

Rick said...
So, does Senator McCain come off as badly rambling and hypocritical to you folks as he does to me in the following interview?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/interview_with_john_mccain_1.html

YES what an asshole! NOW he's claiming that the Campaign contributions are dodgy and putting it in the same sentence as Watergate! (Wasn't Watergate a Republican President?)

No wonder General Powell endorsed Obama. Anyone with a shred of integrity would want to disassociate themselves from this hypocritical, nauseating McCain Campaign.

And he’s whinging about Obama BUYING the election – as though he didn’t have a choice about accepting public financing.

John, what are you doing to your legacy? Say goodbye to public life after 11/4, because no-one will want to know you. Shame, John, Shame.

Adam said...

As a random aside, amusing contradictions from Zogby:

10/20/08:
Obama has led McCain, an Arizona senator, by between two and six points in all 14 days of polling. "This race has not really moved all that much in two weeks," Zogby said.

10/19/08:
Obama leads McCain by 48 to 45 percent among likely U.S. voters, down 1 percentage point from Saturday. The four-day tracking poll, which has a margin of error of 2.9 points.
Pollster John Zogby said ... "For the first time in the polling McCain is up above 45 percent. There is no question something has happened,"


Something happened yesterday... but nothing has changed in two weeks. But Obama should be worried. Because a change of 1 point in a poll w/ a margin of error of 3 is good news... FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

PeteKent said...

Who is Michael Signator?

As Obama is starting to run away with it, the media are going to start to come out with a spate of stories, releasing all kinds of stuff on Obama, so they can later go on record saying they gave the public all they had.

It won't matter that it was all too late.

http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=2&threadid=1650746&start=1&currentPage=1

SHERWICK said...

lol petekent. you get a couple of points for trying i guess. lol

Rick said...

Not only that Aussie, but any criticism of himself is unwarranted and baseless. He claims that he has instantly repudiated any offbase attacks against Senator Obama, but every attack that his campain has launched is right on the money in his mind. He often contradicts himself in the same sentance to say that Ayers doesn't matter, but then goes on to insist that the people need to know about Ayers.

He blames Senator Obama for "going after" Joe the Plumber. Joe had every right to question the Senator, that's what he was out there for and he was more than happy to explain his position while admitting that Joe himself might not be perfectly pleased with the outcome. I watched the video of it myself, in fact I had seen it before the debate. However, Joe claimed some specific numbers and quite a few media number crunchers wanted to figure out what the exact figures would be since this man put himself forward and lo and behold it turns out that the scenario that was described by Joe as his life story turns out to have been a purely hypothetical that wasn't even remotely reasonable to presume was within his grasp. Now, it is still perfectly fine to ask the hypothetical. But he'd have been much smarter to leave it at that. Still, word is that Joe was on the conservative radio stations before the debate and it was Senator McCain that first brought him up and who brought him up the most and continues to do so. I really fail to see where in this Senator Obama is at fault. It isn't like he selected Joe to villanize or seek out to make a focus of the media. The blame there goes to Joe himself for lying with cameras present to capture it and Senator McCain for bringing him up on a national level.

The robo calls that he hated when they happened to him, but which are justified now because they are about his opponent.

But above those and the other attacks and falsehoods I noticed within the interview, just looking at the transcript shows him jumping constantly and he seems almost incapable of a coherant sentence. It sounds way too close to Palin when she's off script and simply spouting talking points rather than putting forth a coherant argument.

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

Soccer Mum said...

Expecting to find logic in the Republican Party at present is like herding cats - technically possible, but why bother?

Anyone who has seen or read General Powell's interview and can still make excuses for the direction the party and campaign have gone in must be stupid and or insane.

I read a comment on another blog laughing at the Muslim soldier who had died and who was referred to in the interview.

There are some sick people around.

BTW hello fellow Aussies.

Rick said...

Soccer Mum said...
"Expecting to find logic in the Republican Party at present is like herding cats - technically possible, but why bother?"

I'm afraid I must take the utmost offense to this line of thinking. It is just plain unjustified bigotry.

While I cannot at the moment find a need to herd cats, I am quite certain that given enough time I could do so. The rest of that, including the logic in a republican argument I'll grant you without a problem. ;)

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

Aussie said...

Rick said...

But above those and the other attacks and falsehoods I noticed within the interview, just looking at the transcript shows him jumping constantly and he seems almost incapable of a coherent sentence.

I agree. He really is starting to look a bit unhinged.
I really think that he comes across humorous and intelligent when there is no pressure on him. But the moment the pressure comes on he spends all his effort in containing his anger. I mean - he just looks diarrhoeal, badly, urgently, diarrhoeal.

And I hope you get your Blue Ohio!

PeteKent said...

Michael Signator. An ex-cop on Obama's payroll with who he spends A LOT of time. For what purpose?

http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=2&threadid=1650746&start=1&currentPage=1

Soccer Mum said...

Its ok Rick, I am a cat lover from way back, but my boss lady goes where she pleases.

I'm dreaming of a blue America, but hope that somebody gets over to West Virginia sooner rather than later and fixes those voting machines up.

It staggers me that there are people who think its ok to deny their fellow citizens free expression of their voting intent.

But since there are voters should vote in person and check their vote before they leave IMHO.

Rick said...

PeteKent said...
"Michael Signator. An ex-cop on Obama's payroll with who he spends A LOT of time. For what purpose?"

G. Gordon Liddy. An ex convict and spy who McCain spends time with and who helped McCain raise money. For what purpose?

The game can be played all night long both directions. I hope you enjoy the forthcoming Obama-nation.

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

PeteKent said...

Rev Wright always seemed a touch fey to me.

Larry Sinclair seemed like a nut job, but who knows.

An Obama's choirmaster Gay , Donald Young, was murdered under mysterious circumstances.

Now this mystery man whith whom Obama spends lots of time with.

Poor Michelle -- no wonder she is so angry.

Obama needs to explain who this man is and why he spends so much time with him. If there's an inncocent explanation, let's have it.

Aussie said...

G'day Soccer Mum!
You're an Aussie too!
Are there any seppos on this site?
Must be because Aussie politics is so boring!

I've always admired general Powell. Isn't he an amazing speaker! What clarity and authority!

BTW it's much harder herding echidnas

Rick said...

PeteKent said...
"Obama needs to explain who this man is and why he spends so much time with him. If there's an inncocent explanation, let's have it."

If the best you can come up with is insinuation and speculation with absolutely no basis in anything factual at all, I don't see any need to play you at your own game. Come back when you have figured out what facts and logical arguments supported by said facts are.

PeteKent said...

"Obama is known for his workout habits. On one day in July, news reports indicated Obama hit the gym on six different occasions on the same day while home in Chicago. Vogel says one of the attractions of visiting Signator is the gym at his building:"

Google Michael Signator

Curious?

Soccer Mum said...

G'day Aussie. Maybe our politics is boring because we don't bust a boiler about it or try to cheat.

The most impressive thing about General Powell is the careful, considered and devastating way in which he spoke.

It has obviously cost him dearly to renounce his own party's candidate but he has done so for the good of his country.

A true patriot, there should be more people like him. After all it should be possible for people of goodwill to disagree on policy without getting into the gutter.

histocrat said...

You mean to say one of the presidential candidates might be...an adulterer?!

I think I might be able to find some evidence for that, actually.

SHERWICK said...

OMG! Obama works out 6 times a day! What a role model! Thanks petekent!

PeteKent said...

The Politico is reporting this story about Obama's mystery man. I am just passing it on for comment.

Aussie said...

PeteKent
I know I'm not supposed to feed you, but I have watched many many of your posts. Sometimes you really crack me up other times you simply confuse me.

But I am curious. Have you actually considered whether you are better off after 8 years of "W", and whether you really belive that McCain will leave you better off in another 4 - or if he doesn't survive that long Palin?

Serious now, without name calling and ranting (I'm immune to fear tactics too - I'm an Australian. We don't do fear).

Aussie bloke said...

Aussie politics is a little stagnant at the moment, although we just voted in the Greens to hold the balance of power here in Canberra. Not that we need this level of government, but eh!

Powell was one of the few Republicans I respected, barring the UN address about WMD.

I also respected McCain. I was originally pleased he was the Republican candidate cos I thought, well if the Democrats lose it'll be to someone at least near the centre. Oh so wrong that was. Where would Romney be now if he was the GOP candidate?, what actions would the far right base have done to him?...it's staggering the amount of power such a nut base has.
They run the party, the party (attempts to) run the country, the country runs the world.
Permission to call them filthy cunt rags.

This affects us all, not just Americans

SHERWICK said...

aussie, tone it down please. there are ladies present (or 'sheilas' as I think you call them!).

Rick said...

On another topic with Senator McCain from the article above.

MCCAIN: ... or you don't know the difference between that and what is a legitimate issue, and that is Senator Obama being truthful with the American people.

But let me tell you what else I think you should be talking about and the American people should be talking about. In the debate the other night, I asked Senator Obama to repudiate a statement made by John Lewis, a man I admire and respect and have written about, that connected me and Sarah Palin...

Now, I don't know about the rest of the sane world, but when a man that I admire, respect and have written about (not to mention called one of the 3 wisest that he knows) speaks up to complain about something I'm doing, I stop and think about what I'm doing. Rather than jumping on the attack against said person of great respect and wisdom, I would ask myself WHY they are saying this.

Forget a white christmas, I'm dreaming of a Blue Ohio!

PorridgeGun said...

I can't think of a better reason to get a 60 seat majority or put Franken in the senate than "Senior" Democrats hoping against it.

Soccer Mum said...

Too right aussie bloke.

When America sneezes, we catch cold. But the good people on this blog by and large know this and are waiting for the day when normal service is resumed.

I am the same as you - a few months ago I thought either one would be OK, they're both smarter than Dubya, but then McCain chose Palin - not the actions of a smart man.

Aussie said...

And PeteKent,
a final question...
Are you aware of just how low America's International Reputation has sunk under "W", and are you aware of how much the rest of the world wants Obama/Biden elected in order to restore it?

Darío said...

In Zogby today is Obama 50 McCain 44.

Soccer Mum said...

Thanks sherwick. Chivalry is not dead!

But I'm not a delicate little flower. When hit by a car on a pedestrian crossing a few years back I told the driver to f*** off!

And I still get teased about it..:)

SHERWICK said...

aussie, petekent and the other GOPers COULD NOT CARE LESS about how little America is respected around the world. In fact, they see it as a PLUS.

Aussie said...

Sherwick,
that's sexist :)
LOL
It was "Aussie Bloke" not "Aussie"
though I agree about the swearing, many of the trolls are too young to hear that kind of language.

But more to the point, what really offends me are the racist comments being made.

Aussie Bloke & Soccer Mum:
I am astounded at the power of the nutbag brigade too.
And the Religious Right? How does that work? They appear to be the most unchristian bunch I've ever heard of. Jesus was a blatant Socialist - go figure.
Also I would like the greens more if they stopped supporting the decriminaliastion of speed.
That's a policy to nowhere.

Marion in Savannah said...

If you're including Joe Lieberman as a member of the Democratic caucus I think you're making a HUGE mistake. After his public support for McCain he'll most likely be stripped of any committee assignments and make the switch formally to the Republican party. Which richly deserves the little toad.

Soccer Mum said...

A parting thought fellow Aussies - America is the leader of the free world but we are lucky in our own small way to have a mostly civil society where elections are hard fought, but generally fair, where every vote is counted and where everybody who gets sick can receive treatment without going broke.

That's nothing to sneeze at.

Rick said...

Marion in Savannah said...
"If you're including Joe Lieberman as a member of the Democratic caucus I think you're making a HUGE mistake. After his public support for McCain he'll most likely be stripped of any committee assignments and make the switch formally to the Republican party. Which richly deserves the little toad."

I'd wager it is more likely he'll go Independant than full Republican right off the bat. He'll deffinately have to toe the party line a bit better if he wants to keep anything resembling an important committee assignment. I'd agree with him switching parties if Senator McCain won, but when McCain loses, Lieberman finds himself in a very bad spot because it will take time for the Republican party to re-assemble anything remotely like power and authority. Certainly not in the next 2 years.

Aussie said...

Rick!!!
Outstanding point and McCain's Campaign just don't seem to get it.
The more they find that people are turned off by a particular message or meme, the louder they seem to shrill it!

Soccer Mum: was the car damaged? :)

Aussie bloke said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Aussie said...

parting thought fellow Aussies - America is the leader of the free world but we are lucky in our own small way to have a mostly civil society where elections are hard fought, but generally fair, where every vote is counted and where everybody who gets sick can receive treatment without going broke.

That's nothing to sneeze at.
___________________________
Well said

Soccer Mum said...

Aussie - Probably.

When a little Mazda runs into a five-feet-eight cranky CA there's damage on both sides!

Aussie bloke said...

America's image and relationships have been tarnished and the country is effectively still in the year 2000, but they can quickly recover and be the beacon of light again.

Australians like America and Americans, we just don't like where it's headed as a nation.

The quote I think of the most in this electoral cycle was something Bill Clinton said. Can't remember is exactly, but it went along the lines of:
'We should lead by the power of our example, not the example of our power'

I see it as voting in Obama finally brings the US into the 21st century.
If McCain gets in with Palin as the puppets to the religious right I can only see a lot of the social progress of the last few decades being undone.

Aussie:
Don't get me wrong I would not want the Greens to implement some of their far left policies or be in power outright. I merely want to shift things slightly to the left. Small responsible changes for the long term benefit.

Gregory said...

Nate, could you add to your nice little list of election scenarios the percentage chance of a wave or sweep or whatever you want to call ~410 electoral votes for Obama. It is possible to estimate via the histogram but I am curious because I would really like to see what the chances are that his win will resemble George H.W. Bush in 1988. Just a suggestion. Thanks

jwhit said...

Ozfrog, I'm also in Melbourne. Do you happen to know if there are any American election parties on 5 November?

Soccer Mum said...

jwhit,

Just don't stop after Melbourne Cup Day!

Real Joe said...

sherwick said...
Anyone know the ABC News poll results that were supposed to be relased at midnight????!?!?!


ABC poll coming out @ 5 p.m ET

Real Joe said...

good morning guys

Aussie said...

Aussie Bloke,
Sure.
Their main platform is excellent. They make for a great protest vote as well.

I also think that the mere election of Obama/Biden will repair the damage to a great extent. I think that much of the rest of the world is quite well informed about the US politics and I think that is why Obama is universally popular.

I feel confident that Americans will make the correct choice.

SHERWICK said...

Aussies also have some problems. Their national passtime is playing something called 'cricket' which seems to be mostly standing around waiting 6 days for something to happen..
:/

Real Joe said...



Zogby

Obama 49.8%

McCain 44.4%

WTF ?

bizkid23 said...

PeteKent said...

"Obama is known for his workout habits. On one day in July, news reports indicated Obama hit the gym on six different occasions on the same day while home in Chicago. Vogel says one of the attractions of visiting Signator is the gym at his building:"

Google Michael Signator

Curious?

The only thing I'm curious about is how many people have dropped you on your head. There is some damage there.

SHERWICK said...

real joe, good morning.
As you cansee from petekent, the GOP talking point today is that Obama goes to the gym 6 times a day!

niedda said...

todays R2K O50 M42 one point down for M

Real Joe said...

can't wait for Ras, Hotline, Gallup & IBT/TIPP

Real Joe said...

pete is crazy

yesterday he was asking for Obama's Indonesian passport

hahahahahaha

Real Joe said...

any state polls coming out ??

we need state polls

Real Joe said...

morning sherwick

cora said...

PeteKent said...
..........
Google Michael Signator

Curious?

.....Curious and done. All I found was people like you asking "Who is Michael Signator ?". There is nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing. But probably, to your eyes, this nothingness is suspicious.

Real Joe said...



Obama: Powell could have a role in administration

(AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says that Colin Powell is welcome to campaign for him and might have a place in his administration.
Obama told NBC's "Today" show Monday that Powell "will have a role as one of my advisers." Whether Powell wants to take a formal role, Obama said, would be "something we'd have to discuss."
Obama said Powell, a retired four-star general who served as President Bush's secretary of state, did not give him a heads-up before he crossed party lines and endorsed the Democratic presidential candidate Sunday on the network's "Meet the Press." Powell said on that program he didn't plan to campaign for Obama before the Nov. 4 election.
Obama said he would love to have Powell on the campaign trail.

Real Joe said...

"Obama said he would love to have Powell on the campaign trail"

not good news for McCain

Aussie said...

jwhit, zfrog, Soccer Mum & Aussie Bloke:
I know I'll be celebrating! somewhere...

Morning Real Joe!

I may have found an antidote to PeteKent.
I think I scared him off this blog bt asking if he was better off after 8 years of "W" and if he thought that he'd be better off in the next 4 under McCain/Palin. Lets try that on all the Trolls...

Ha HA HA HA Ha

Aussie said...

SHERWICK said...
Aussies also have some problems. Their national passtime is playing something called 'cricket' which seems to be mostly standing around waiting 6 days for something to happen..
:/



Beats the crap out of watching the Supabowl waiting for anything to happen!! LOL
Plus Cricket is about perving at the opposite sex (unless you're gay - which is fine in Australia) and drinking beer.

I'm starting to think Sherwick is a Kiwi.

Real Joe said...



washingtonpost

Updated Electoral Map: Obama at 315

Link

SHERWICK said...

i am not a fruit!

matador said...

it's so nice to realize how many US citizen come here simply to pour their hopes in Obama's presidency.
It's also amazing to realize that when US people are sleeping,the rest of the world come here hoping for the same.

...and then petekent arrives...

Aussie said...

cora said...

But probably, to your eyes, this nothingness is suspicious.

WHAT! are the Republicans using otherness and fear. Nup Nup can't belive it.

Real Joe said...



Democrats outregister Republicans in Florida

Link

Real Joe said...

Pete is not human

robot ??

Real Joe said...

Obama up on Zogby is bad news for Matt

i feel for him

SHERWICK said...

I want to find out more about this 'Obama goes to the gym 6 times a day' latest smear from the GOPers...

Anyone got more info on that? petekent?

Aussie said...

sherwick,
I just woke everyone up laughing.

Who are you??? Michael Signator???

Whoever you are you know too much about Australia. Hmm

matador said...

@Real Joe.

good morning.
I read your yesterday's post.

remember what I told you:
...don't let me down...
Put "country first" and jump that Obama's boat definitively.

hola.
;)

cora said...

Real Joe said...


washingtonpost

Updated Electoral Map: Obama at 315

HI Real Joe,

that map has Hawaii red.

Real Joe said...



From ABC News/WashPost data, among likely voters:

--On Ayers: 60% say Obama's connection to him is not a legitimate issue.

--On Palin: 52% say McCain's choice of her for veep weakens their confidence in his judgment.

Real Joe said...

cora said...

HI Real Joe,

that map has Hawaii red.


it looks like a mistake

Hawaii is blue

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Thanks for the Links Real Joe---That Wash Post electoral map gas got to be scary for McCain---Obama could stand to lose Florida and VA and still win.

Subterranean said...

sherwick -

There's a Politico article on him. Summary: Signator is an ex-Obama aide/driver who BHO still hangs out with on a regular basis.

Not really sure why Pete thought there was a potential smear here. Perhaps he believes that no male-male friendship can be purely platonic?

Projecting a bit, perhaps?

grandpa john said...

--On Palin: 52% say McCain's choice of her for veep weakens their confidence in his judgment.

Weakens? hell it ought to destroy most peoples confidence in his judgement

cora said...

Real Joe,
it's a mistake but it's counted.
So it's Obama 318

SHERWICK said...

lol sub

SHERWICK said...

sub, i thought petekent was insinuating that Obama was too HEALTHY to be President as he goes to the gym so much!

Darío said...

ABC/Wash Post LV:

Obama 53
McCain 43



http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1076a2ElectionofOurDiscontent.pdf

cora said...

Subterranean said...
sherwick -

There's a Politico article on him. Summary: Signator is an ex-Obama aide/driver who BHO still hangs out with on a regular basis.

so....

if Signator is:

1 black Obama - is racist,
2 white Obama - is palling with terrorist
3 muslim - Obama is unAmerican
4 a plumber - Obama is a socialist
5 African - Obama is a Communist
6 a pastor - Obama hates America

MY GOD PETEKENT. We're lost !!!!
No way out of this huge scoop of your's.

SHERWICK said...

thats last week's poll dario

cora said...

no..no...no
wait a second

PeteKent is insinuating:

SIGNATOR IS OBAMA'S PUSHER

right PeteKent ?

cora said...

PeteKent's wet dream:


The Signator Bounce !

LAT said...

dario--those numbers are from last week, they are releasing only some questions and the topline results come out tonight.

joel said...

IT appears that Obama is being treated as president elect already by the media. Even racist Pat Buchanan says he`ll win plus Scarborough and Tucker Carlson pretty much have given up on McCain.
Politcal wire says McCain can`t win the populars vote and his only hope to win is to somehow win the electoral college by barely winning every tossup state.
I still say Obama with over 300 ev. Ohio may go Mccain, to much racism there.
The sad thing is the right wing wacko`s will start planning Obama`s impeachment before he takes office although I would assume in 2012 he will be re-elected in a landslide with the GOP in tatters and maybe a 3rd party stronger than the republicans.

LAT said...

joel--this is why the election is only the beginning. Obama will have a grassroots movement at his back so no matter what anyone tries to do we will be there to guarantee he gets a fair shake. IMHO.

dpldust said...

Pete - - This just in ***********************
BO - has fathered African American children!!!
**************************

No way the guys squirms out of this one - Drudge even has proof!

It's all over for BO now!

what?... He is?

nevermind.

slicknickshady said...

The worst case scenerio imo is Obama 291 and Mccain 247. That means Obama carries NV, CO, NM, and VA.

A win is a win but I would sure like it if Obama takes MO and one of FL or OH.

STepper said...

PeteKent has self-nominated as the designated idiot and rumor mongerer on this thread. As usual.

Michael Signator -- What does it mean? It's all sound and fury signifying nothing, but it is a typical attempt to stir the sh!t. And if it comes from PUMA PeteKent it must be on today's Republican talking points.

It's great here. We get the Repub talking points from PeteKent and the AP wire from crypto-Dem Real Joe, who continues to pretend he is some feckless McCain supporter.

LAT said...

I would personally be happy with anything over 270 but--I would love for a lot of the red states that usually get called as soon as they close to be called as too close to call, even if Obama does not win them, to play well and come close in a lot of red states would just be very cool.

Robert said...

I think real joe is funny. He was more annoying a week or so ago, but after confessing his wife will vote O he seem to settle down.

He might now be as much a believer then some of us but nowadays his points are at least valid

Sedi said...

"IT appears that Obama is being treated as president elect already by the media."

Yes, it's interesting how reality is sinking in, even among the media. They tried so hard to keep the Dem primary race alive WAY after those of us who knew the rules knew that it was over. I think that the subtleties of the rules allowed them to fool people into thinking it was close. With the general election, the rules are better known and the race is a little less close, making it an easy call at this stage.

I was stunned at how more than half of "This Week" yesterday focused on the issues and pitfalls Obama will face as president. Even George Will and Newt Gingrich went along with it, not even bothering to complain that the election technically isn't over. If McCain wins, it will be the biggest comeback in the history of major U.S. elections, I'd bet.

SHERWICK said...

Latest news: Florida GOP (Crist) holding $s back for 2009 campaigning. Asked why he's not appearing in McCain's Florida ads he said 'No one asked me'.

Oh dear.

Real Joe said...

it looks like FL will go blue

Robert said...

Sherwick: Do you have a link or is this just a funny story? Wouldn't surprise me if it's true, I see no reason for the GOP to continue more then bare minimum support for McCain and instead start worrying about the senate races

Real Joe said...

what time will Ras. numbers come out ?

Aussie said...

joel said...
IT appears that Obama is being treated as president elect already by the media.


Ain't it grand!

And the right wing wackos will be marginalised and isolated. Yes it makes them dangerous, but predictable. The rest of America has moved on.

SHERWICK said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Aussie said...

Lat,
as Nate Silver is going to be part of the commentry team - unlike previous years - I think Nate will (Correctly) call the States very early indeed.

But I like what you are saying about full on RED states being too close to call instead of called right away. Oooh just got a shiver down my spine.

If you could only pick one to turn, which would it be?

KIC said...

Somedays I feel like it is too good to be true. All the voter supression tactics by the GOP is so depressing and they are so desperate.

SHERWICK said...

Here's the link, note the article's by a GOP supporter: http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/VA_and_FL_state_parties_clashing_with_McCain.html

Robert said...

Thanks for the link.

I had been surprised I habn't heard more news like this. It's clear the McCain will not win and on top of that he's ruining the GOP name by making it a joke instead of only sinister.

PA John said...

ABC/Wash Post LV:

Obama 53
McCain 43


Dario dude - that's last weeks...

Alamala said...

Let's find out every detail about every member of John McCain's security team!

Oh, wait, that would probably be boring. Let's not.

Why is it that Obama's associations with people we have no reason to think are criminal are more problematic than McCain's associations with people we KNOW are criminal? Liddy, Keating and Palin (ethics violations!) for starters :)

I gotta say though... let's go all the way and assume Barack's having a sexual relationship with this Signator dude... who cares? :O

So glad Powell made the point that even if Obama WERE Muslim, it shouldn't be relevant. Same goes for his sexual orientation.

OK, I guess I care -- I'm in favor :D I personally am loving the mental image of Obama coming out as gay after the election. That would be a historical moment indeed, and a huge step forward for our democracy.

(As for adultery, McCain's is well-known and well-documented... and given that Michelle is healthy and independent, nothing Obama does on that front can possibly be ethically worse than what McCain did... so Obama still wins.)

LAT said...

Aussie--yes I agree that the states will be called early when they know the result. My wish---Indiana. That is my dream red flipped blue state.
You have one?

Real Joe said...



Hillary Clinton, Pelosi campaigning in MN this week

Link

Real Joe said...



Gingrich says GOP can gain if Obama wins

Aussie said...

Cop this,
I was looking at an internet article. On it was a photo of Sarah Palin.

My 7 year old daughter just got out of bed - asking for a drink and wandered in to the study. She saw the Photo of Sarah Palin.

I said (after - what are you doing out of bed etc) do you know who that is?
My little Australian Girl said:
"She's the lady that says: Absolutely, Yup, Yup".

!!!!

LAT said...

I find that Politico story on Signator totally repulsive full of innuendo. They have nothing on Obama so they try to make stuff up. Vogel is an ass.
They try to make this completely normal friendship into something seedy-gosh.

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

Real Joe said...



Marc Ambinder:

Plouffe, Axelrod And The Long Ball

One under-reported skill demonstrated by Obama's communications team is its bility to frame the election on their terms by slowly, meticulously repeating their version of the crucial choice before the electorate. Eventually, their frames have been internalized by voters and members of the media, almost without anyone noticing that it happened: think, most recently, Obama and tax cuts.

During the primary, it was change versus experience. This wasn't an inevitable frame; many observers rightly thought it was a false choice (Hillary would have been quite a change from George Bush). Nevertheless, Obama seemed to embody "change" more than Clinton did; from a substantive perspective, this was most clearly illustrated by Clinton's war vote, and by Obama's opposition to it.

Hillary fell into their trap for quite a while, proudly waving the experience flag for much of 2007. Tellingly, it was Bill -- he of "Change Versus More Of The Same" in 1992 -- who supposedly flagged the dangers for Hillary in accepting this frame.

At a certain point (and it happened very early on; certainly before Super Tuesday), pollsters began asking voters whether they preferred someone who would bring more change, or someone who had more experience. Then , it began appearing in exit poll data. By the time Hillary tried to redefine the choice as being between someone who understands your needs versus someone who is an elitist, it was too late. Obama's frame had stuck.
Right now, it seems that everyone from David Brooks to the Chicago Tribune to the Washington Post to Joe Klein to Christopher Buckley is praising Obama for his temperament.
This, too, is no accident. The Obama campaign has been quietly pushing the temperament frame for months.

This is why voters and members of the media recoiled so quickly at John McCain's repeated stunts in September. It's true; most of McCain's biggest wounds have been self-inflicted. But imagine, if you will, that the McCain campaign had decided to stick with just one storyline about Obama, beginning in the summertime: that he is indecisive and weak, and never takes a stand on real issues.

Forget the Ayers stuff, the Wright stuff, the kindergarten stuff: they could have made his "present" votes the centerpiece of their attack, along with a whole host of supporting anecdotes.

Meanwhile, McCain could have been framed as a bold leader, independent of both parties, who took unpopular stands time and time again. In that instance, the reaction to both the VP picks and to the candidates' actions after Lehman collapsed would probably have been interpreted very, very differently.

KIC said...

KILL OBAMA!!!

Thomas said...

Gingrich is right

The GOP can make big gains in 2010 and 2012 if Obama and the Dems go hog wild.

There are alot of moderates in Obama's coalition and they will up and leave next time around if he doesn't cater to them a little bit.