10.17.2008

Scrap the Squigglys

I'm with Mike Murphy on this one. The presence of on-screen results from dial-testing groups is something that needs to be reconsidered during future presidential debates.



It's not that the squiggly lines aren't fun to watch. Rather, they're too much fun to watch. It's hard to avert your eyes from them. It's hard to separate your own, independent reaction from theirs. And it's certainly hard to integrate back into to the non-squiggly universe once you've gotten hooked on the squigglys.

It was only a matter of time before one of the networks figured this out and started carrying the dial-testing results with their live debate feed. That network turned out to be CNN, which made a terrificly smart programming decision, and was rewarded with ratings comparable to the major networks. (Which channel do you think I watched last night?)

The problem is that the squigglys may give thirty random strangers from Bumbleweed, Ohio just too damned much power to influence public perception. The squigglys influence the home viewers, the home viewers participate in the snap polls, the snap polls influence the pundits, the pundits influence the narrative and -- voilà! -- perceptions are entrenched.

Mind you, I'm not complaining about the post-debate snap polls really, like the ones that CNN and CBS conduct. I'd certainly rather look at those numbers than watch the pundits babble for hours on end, especially as pundits tend to watch for all the wrong things during the debates.

But whereas the snap polls are scientific instruments with sample sizes of 500 or more, the probability of getting an unrepresentative reaction from a 30-person dial-testing group is much, much higher. First and foremost is the matter of sample size. You'd never see a poll conducted with just 30 respondents, because the margins of error would be around 18 (!) points.

In addition, as Mark Blumenthal points out, these focus groups depart significantly from truly random samples. Let me quote from him at length:

Focus groups do have important limitations that are not well understood. Although focus group recruiters try to make the participants as representative as possible, the focus group is not a projective random sample, like a poll. Participants usually live near the facility. As the response rates are miniscule given the time commitment, participants usually receive monetary incentives (usually $50-$75) to encourage participation. Recruiters also seek to fill specific quotas for specified demographic characteristics (a mix of ages, for example). Thus, we simply cannot count answers in a focus group to estimate the reactions of a larger population. In other words, if 20 of 30 "undecided voters” react a certain way to the debate tonight, we cannot conclude that 66% of all undecided voters nationally feel the same way.

A second limitation is what researchers call "group dynamic.” In a focus group, participants are often influenced or cowed by the opinions of others in the group. If one dominant personality loudly stakes out a position, others tend to hide or modify their contradictory views. [...]

Finally, the artificial nature of the focus group is often a poor way to judge how the information from advertising (or the fallout of a debate) will be processed in the real world. For example, focus group participants often express genuine antipathy for negative advertisements and reject the information contained in them as false and unfair. Yet in the real world, as the recent campaign has demonstrated powerfully, such advertising can still communicate negative information with ruthless effectiveness. Also, People no doubt watch advertising much more closely and critically in focus group than in their living rooms.
Mark is talking about interactive focus groups, which are a slightly different beast from the squiggly-line groups that CNN and the other networks use, but most of the criticisms carry over. You're not really getting a random sample when everyone has to be sitting in the same physical location at the same time; maybe voters in Ohio were really grooving on Obama's message last night, but voters in Florida weren't. Moreover, people may react differently when they feel as though they're being watched, and that their reactions are being broadcast in real time to 9 million Americans on CNN. The dial-testing groups may also be paying too much attention to the debate to mimic real-world conditions ... they're sitting there in a room with absolutely nothing else to do but watch the debate and twiddle their knobs. That's not how most people watch the debates. Most people are flipping channels between the debate and Dodgers-Phillies, or trying to put their kids to bed, or are chatting on the phone, or are four beers into a six pack, or all of the above.

What I'd suggest is that the CPD ask the network to refrain from including focus-group reactions in their live broadcasts of the debates. If the networks want to include the squigglys in their re-broadcasts of the debates, or perhaps on their Internet streams, I'd be all for that. But I think the viewer should be entitled to formulate her own, independent reaction to the debate, rather than having to share her television with Joe the Plumber and some guys from his neighborhood.

539 comments

rita said...

Nothing smart to say here- just a chance to be first...

jwhit said...

In Australia, the squiggly line is called The Worm. It's something the audiences love, but the debaters and political parties hate.

The broadcast we get here doesn't have the worm for the US debates. And the CNN feed on the internet doesn't work either.

thanks so much for the range of topics you are covering. this is the best election coverage I've ever seen.

Jan - expat Yank

ciphergoth said...

Excellent observation, and I agree.

More people will watch live online as time goes on, so if the squigglies are on those feeds then the problem will resurface. The debate commission should insist that the squigglies be held back from any channel until, say, an hour after the debate ends.

BTW is there any way I can download the state-by-state information set out in the right sidebar in a spreadsheet or suchlike? I mailed about this but got no response...

Wayward Son said...

I suppose I'd dislike the squiggly line a lot more if it were hurting my candidate. So, let's wait until the Democrats nominate a non-telegenic, sarcastic angerball before we get rid of it.

Let's see.. Obama for re-election in '12, Schweitzer in '16 and '20, how does 2024 sound?

Ben Vollmayr-Lee said...

I totally disagree. You're arguing for pushing back against both technology and the market force of what people want to see. Good luck with that.

Your point about the sample is important. So, let's demand that they find a sample of 500 to dial in with. The technology required for that is pretty minimal - could all be done remotely over the internet. Hell, let's demand that it's 5000. This isn't just a generic poll, it's a presidential debate.

I'd like to see those numbers during the debate.

Real Joe said...

good morning nate/everybody

Real Joe said...

joel said...
The race is tighening, R2000 poll McCain picked up 1 and was only down 6 in thursday`s polling.
You can assume 75% of the undecided are just McCain voters afraid to tell pollsters for fear of looking racist.
Still Obama is leading everywhere except the south so the results may be misleading and for him to win the electoral college would take a miracle.
My guess is rasmussen will be down to 3 today.


hahahahaha

good news for McCain

Real Joe said...

McCain Surge !!

Real Joe said...

Rasmussen Missouri:

Obama 52 McCain 46

DAMN.

Chris S said...

See, this is precisely why I would favor distributing logins to qualified panelists around the country and letting them do the same thing online during the debates. Watch in your own home, and respond. In "the internet age" this should be eminently possible, reasonably secure, and it also negates a vast majority of the complaints about the "focus groups" that are used for these samplings.

rita said...

Actually, this has nothing to do with the squiggly lines thing, but I've been thinking about how a presidential campaign is like a golf open-- you can't win it on any given hole, but you sure can lose it. Obama's been grinding away at this thing-- par, par, par, birdie, par, par, just doing everything right enough, while McCain's trying to string together 5 hole-in-one's in a row. I deeply believe that if McCain had run a campaign that he's the grown up- and STUCK TO IT he might have squeezed this one out.

michiganmaine said...

Missouri Rasmussen Obama 52, McCain 46 Obama +6

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/missouri/election_2008_missouri_presidential_election

Dominic said...

I love the squigglies, but you are 100 percent right that they are very unreliable. Thirty people? And aren't they the same Joe the this and Joe the that for every debate? I don't see why they can't have five or six of these groups around the country and integrate the data for a more believable worm.

FreeThinker said...

Speaking of squigglies, it looks like the IEM Graph is tracking Nate's projection.

Chris S said...

Dominic, why limit this to 5 or 6 locations? Distribute logins to 5000 people around the country, do it online, in their homes. No location bias, then slice/dice data however you want.

Mr. X said...

The squiggly line is interesting for about 10 minutes, after which it is distracting... more important to pay attention to what is being said, instead of how some group of people somewhere is reating to what they've seen. I agree; leave it for the post-debate analysis / rebroadcasts.

Tchaika said...

Nate,

I watched all four debates on PBS. No squigglys there.

The PBS talking heads are also much more watchable (less manufactured outrage) than the ones on the cable channels.

Lucien said...

I agree. The squiggly lines were completely pointless as a result of the sample size, and very distracting. I think it's far more important with a televised debate to be able to see the candidates, and the lines just distract us.

synthetoceras said...

What I wonder is how many of the people in the focus group are truly undecided, and how many just say they are because they want to stay in the "squiggly" group. I know I'd sure lie about being undecided if it meant I could do the squigglies!

Mithridates said...

My thoughts exactly and that's why I never watch the debates with the squigglies. It's pretty much the same as listening to a song or watching a tv show for the first time; when you're on your own you can make up your own mind but when other people are around you they can ruin the experience.

Music and movie critics are also the worst to be with. You'll notice that a lot of critics compare movies to a director's previous films, so I'll watch a movie for example, immensely enjoy it, and then read a review that says "movie x is not bad but it's nothing compared to Director M's previous movie w. He's clearly losing it." Really? But the movie itself was just fine.

That's why talking heads are so bad at determining who wins a debate. I also spend a ton of time watching debates and speeches and I thought that Obama and McCain were about tied in the first debate, but that was because I recognized so much of what Obama said that it didn't sound new to me anymore.

newsfromOH said...

I am as addicted to the squigglies as I am to this site. They may not be good for me, but I'm powerless to resist them . . .

I watch the squigglies with fascination but they don't inform my opinion. They're UNDECIDED voters which means they're either stupid, so insecure they can't form an opinion or too lazy to gather the info they need independently. I would never let a group like that influence my opinion.

pfellah said...

I think it's fascinating to look at AFTER the debate -- I remember a specific occasion from the third debate where even the REPUBLICAN line started to sink while McCain was talking about Ayers/ACORN -- but I agree that I like to watch the debates without the squigglies so my reactions can be my own.

Steve said...

Who was twirling the knob in that Guiliani picture - Bernie Kerik?

PorridgeGun said...

No way, keep the real time debate trackers, post-debate focus groups and snap polls.


If it weren't for the indies and undecideds making their voices heard, the MSM would have awarded the VP and 3rd debate to McCain and Mooseburger by default and this would be manufactures Horse Race. Bill Bennett and Alex Castellanos were doing victory laps around the McCNN Election HQ and slagging off Obama right after the last debate. Then the snap polls/focus group verdict came in and both them STFU. Bennett was nowhere to be see after that. As for the pundits, they analyzed where McCain went wrong. Like Nate, they conluded that he ahd a pretty good first 30 minutes, but then took a nosedive when he went negative with attacks ads, John Lewis, ACORN and Ayres. Bill Schneider's report last night basically summed it up.

John said...

Those irritating squiggles, zig-zaggles and other jingles from the INSTAPOLLING! that the networks and news networks thrust upon us is exactly what sent me and my friends to the buzzless, squiggle-free comfort of PBS' debate coverage. All we had was somewhat more debate analysis AFTER the debate was over.

Wesley said...

Excellent post. I have to agree with a previous poster, that you probably can't get rid of the live squiggly lines, but if they created a focus group in every state, with larger sample size, perhaps a more accurate picture could be drawn from the results. That still doesn't change the way people will be influenced by it.

Real Joe said...

by next week McCain up by 3 ??

Franklyn said...

And the rising Squiggly Graph indicates that Nate shows a far greater intelligence quotioent than "the best political team on television." --forward and without the annoying voice.

But why does Bumbleweed, Ohio get to have all the fun? Why can't we be gauging into that CNN meter for pundits?

Keep up the fantastic work Nate, Sean and company. Your approval line doesn't squiggle here.

Real Joe said...

President McCain

sounds good

:-)

Darío said...

Zogby Obama 49 McCain 44.
No change.

moondancer said...

I found it amusing that NPR tried to stack the deck with a "independent/undecided" debate watch group in Colorado. The composition was two repugs and six independents. When polled live after the debate all eight gave Obama the win, seven decided to vote for him. Imagine the disgust of the NPR news staff.

Chris S said...

Wesley - with a larger group, and done via the internet it would be extraordinarily difficult to do live footage squiglies. It would be pretty much left to post debate analysis of data from select groups.

(hmmm, I envision streaming debate embedded in page with dials, connectivity gatewayed by distributing logins to folks who are better qualified as independents, etc)

Anyhow, time for me to start writing that application and selling it to the major networks :)

mc9cain said...

Here's a comparison to Bush Kerry 2004. Obama looks to be in great shape even with poll tightening.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/chart3way.html

PorridgeGun said...

BTW, I put something in front of the squiggly lines so they wouldn't distract me or shape my opinion of how the debates went. Then I watched the replay or watched snippets of key exchanges to see how the focus groups reacted. And I'll be doing the same thing again in 4 years.

Forrest said...

how about the fact that the networks keep harping on how the squiggles dip when opponents go negative, but it is completely unclear whether or not having an immediate negative reaction to a comment means that comment was effective or uneffective at effecting your longer term position. I think you'd find a similar negative reaction after someone watches a negative ad, but clearly negative ads have impact in the long run.. i dont think politicians are stupid enough to run them if they didn't.

Chris S said...

Politicians would still run negative ads, even if they have negative overall effect. For several reasons - even given a net negative, they fire up the base, and get the talking points into the national political meme for the candidate.

Zatarra said...

I can't figure out why you didn't spell it "squigglies."

Dr. Matt said...

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

President Obama!!!

Real Joe said...

darío said...
Zogby Obama 49 McCain 44.
No change.


no Surge ??

hahahahahha

Franklyn said...

Right. It makes you wonder whether anyone who has already decided how to vote in 2008, since...I don't know, like 1984...would be influenced to switch over because of a dip or something.

Cubfan said...

Wow, we're at the point where the hopeless cling to one poll where they're still behind to say "hey, here we go now."

Randy said...

What I've done for all 3 presidential debates was watch the live broadcast on one network (and I've varied each time - ABC, CBS, MSNBC), then flip around for post-debate polls and discussion for an hour or so. After that, I'd watch the debate again during CNN's West coast rebroadcast at midnight EDT, complete with (as my wife calls them) Happymeters. That tends to work nicely to get an untainted first impression, and then review those bits that produced strong reactions one way or the other.

foreverblu said...

Isn't this just a symptom of the problem with the American electorate? Most people are waiting for the media to tell them what to believe and the media are more focused on generating revenue than on being journalists.

(Wow, I really sound like a nut!)

Still, kill the squiggly!

JimCA said...

I agree with Chris S -- use a more representative sample of 1,000 or even 10,000 viewers.

Dr. Matt said...

Poll: Voters souring on McCain, Obama stays steady

http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-souring-on-mccain

McGrampa is surging into the negative! ...just like Iraq

Ed said...

Good observation, Nate.

While I watched CNN for the squigglies, it was to see how they were doing with audiences. I've liked the intant post debate polls because I am sick to death of the pundits.

CNN had way to many people on after the debate. That was a chunk of change - I think they should spend more money on reporting and less on pundits.

JimCA said...

How long before this information is fed back in real time to the people debating? As a debater, it would be useful to know in real-time when you are moving your target audience(s) and when you are flat or bombing.

J said...

OT, but when Nate says races tend to tighten at the end, when does that tightening tend to occur? The final week? The final two weeks? If tightening happens now, will that be a bit early? I'm just looking at the one-day R2K number that shows an unexpected post-debate drop from +10 to +6 for Obama, which seems to be inline with flat or slightly declining national numbers for him yesterday.

Subterranean said...

If Nate's pollster weightings are sound, then the race has gotta be damn near Rasmussen's 50-45 split. I mean, that's held for 23-24(?) days now.

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen nuggets before the tracking poll at 9 AM:

Rasmussen
Missouri (10/15/08)
O-52
M-46

Missouri is starting to look like Florida in that its a state that rapidly switched

Rasmussen
Who Won the Debate? (10/16/08)
O-47
M-33
Among Moderates:
O-59
M-22
Among Independents
O-42
M-31

Slightly better debate ratings for M this time around.

Real Joe said...

any state polls coming out ???

j & k said...

IT's peer pressure. Know what I mean? Aw, c'mon, man. You know what I mean, dontcha? C'mon. You agree. Look at the graph. You know you agree.

Real Joe said...

antmatic said...
Rasmussen nuggets before the tracking poll at 9 AM:

Rasmussen
Missouri (10/15/08)
O-52
M-46

Missouri is starting to look like Florida in that its a state that rapidly switched

Rasmussen
Who Won the Debate? (10/16/08)
O-47
M-33
Among Moderates:
O-59
M-22
Among Independents
O-42
M-31

Slightly better debate ratings for M this time around.


DAMN.

The Eternal n00bie said...

I actually put the CNN Squiggly feed on the computer near the TV. The feed is delayed about 30 seconds so I get to react first and then I can check the feed 30 seconds later to see if the squigglys agree with me.

PorridgeGun said...

It's clear what the McCain campaign plan was in attempting to somehow win this week. First it was Joe the Planted Wingnut. A NEW speech (which wasn't new afterall) and announce some economic proposals on Tuesday. Have his buddies in the MSM (Tom Brokaw, David Gregory, Joe Scarborough, FOX, AP, Wolf Blitzer, John King, Dana Bash, Bill Bennett, Alex Castellanos, Stephen Hayes etc.) declare him the winner of the 3rd debate, no matter how bad he looked or performed, or even what the post-debate polls said. Thursday, again with the help of the MSM, McCain's the Comeback Kid. Then for the rest of the week, gain some popular culture traction with an appearance on Letterman and SNL with Palin.

Dr. Matt said...

Always remember, herr dubyah, the worst president in history, supports McGrampa.

hahahahhaha

sarasotajoe said...

I watched the first debate on CNN, and despised the squigglies - though I coulldn't stop watching them. I was often horrified at the groups reactions, with the red line going up when either candidate said something reasonable, and the green line going up fo spurious nonsense. It seemed that he group was more concerned with the topic then the substance. If the topic was the economy it went up. If the candidate slung mud it went down. The lines had little bearing on the quality of the comments, just the topic and degree of negativity.

btw - Obama is starting to run ads in WV and KY, and resuming them in GA.

dvogel001 said...

I usually agree with your analysis but do not in this case...it is just another data point to consider. I think people understand that scientific polls are more important than the focus groups. I say expand it with technology to 300 people (30 people in 10 swing states) if you want to dilute the power of a small sample size or geographic lack of diversity. The only problem with that is cost would be much higher...

dvogel001 said...

I usually agree with your analysis but do not in this case...it is just another data point to consider. I think people understand that scientific polls are more important than the focus groups. I say expand it with technology to 300 people (30 people in 10 swing states) if you want to dilute the power of a small sample size or geographic lack of diversity. The only problem with that is cost would be much higher...

Real Joe said...

Obama surge in MO ??

deschoolingh said...

Nate's analysis here gives me an opening to make a claim about POLLS. I'm a graduate student in political theory and teach my students lots of wonderful things like how polls are destroying our democracy by conditioning us to believe whatever "the public" believes.

But that aside, when you make the claim Nate that you are upset about the folks from bumbleweed influencing your perceptions --- what about the larger phenomena of how POLLS influence all of our perceptions on a daily basis? How much different would our perceptions and our culture be if we didn't feel the need to "scientifically" measure every single cough, snort, and whistle out on the campaign trail?

Wow, it might even be possible that the REAL political work of organizations like the Industrial Areas Foundation could get some play instead of conditioning us all to believe that the major parties are God.

Joda said...

I'm gonna sound like Rachel Maddow, but someone needs to talk me down.

All the wingnuts are really expanding this 'spread the wealth' nonsense and attempting to exploit joe the f'ing plumber in the process. My fear is that this will work with the american population who, unlike most of us here, know that Joe will actually fair better under Obama's plan than McCain's.

The repubs are really pressing forward with this storyline and I'm afraid it will work and damper Obama's momentum.

I think Joe the plumber is now the October surprise.

Someone talk me down :)

ericvfsu said...

I watched the debates on "squiggleless" CSPAN so I can concentrate. Alas, putting the rugrats to bed, flipping channels, and the occasional Budweiser ruined my hoped-for trance-like concentration.

Shain said...

I'd say that the major issue here is sample size. Not 30 people, how about 3,000 or heck even 10,000 people who are distributed through out the USA relative to each state's relevance in the electoral college. Now that would be a very interesting squiggly line and it would actually tell us something.

I'm sure that if they had really tried they could have organized something like that for the debates.

Darío said...

Antimatic, the difference in moderates are too high.
And the difference is more high than the first deabte.

T.W. said...

I'm not sure these comments about sample size are correct. For the same reason that MOVES in polls can be statistically significant within the margin of error, so to can MOVING LINES be statistically significant at a much lower sample size than that needed to gauge a percentage of support for a candidate accurately (where there's an important difference between the absolute numbers 49 and 51).

In a nutshell, if McCain starts talking about Joe the Plumber and the dial average moves up, it IS a real phenomenon. Maybe Joe the Plumber is playing great in another part of the country (or in some age or racial group excluded from the dialers), but the movement in the small sample is not noise.

I agree with the big point: this is distracting entertainment, another opportunity to substitute prechewed soundbites for intelligent reflection. But there's some equivocation in complaining that the sample size will make the group "unrepresentative." They need to be broadly representative, but it's not a simple MOE issue. (Because the dial does not produce the result "Joe the Plumber is 80% noxious +/- 3%.") And it's possible that, if CNN doesn't exercise great control in constructing the group, it could.

Jamie said...

Am I the only liberal out there who loves Mike Murphy? He's always got something interesting to say, and avoids repeating campaign talking points like the plague. The news media needs more "insider" analysts like Murphy, and fewer hacks like Paul Begala.

Real Joe said...

Ras projections ??

McCain Surge ?

Obama Surge ?

Darío said...

Rasmussen:

Who won the fist deabte?

O 36
M 33


Who won the last debate?

O 47 (+11)
M 33 (0)

RWD said...

Joda, if the best "october surprise" the GOP can come up with is an unlicensed plumbers who's behind on his taxes, then Obama is in really good shape.

yune said...

HEY! I'M FROM BUMBLEWEED, OHIO!!!

Matt said...

Ras back to 50/45 I reckon.

Real Joe said...
This post has been removed by the author.
NoVa Commie said...

OT - W giving a nearly incomprehensible speech now. Can't be good for McCain

Real Joe said...

yune said...
HEY! I'M FROM BUMBLEWEED, OHIO!!!


we don't give a fu** about where you from

grandpa john said...

aftere reflecting on this poin t, I have to agree. I watched CNN and several times found myself so absorbed with watching the reactions, that I missed points being made by the speakers.

PA John said...

Diageo/Hotline:

Obama - 50
McCain- 40

Darío said...

Who win Ohio yune?

Darío said...

PA John said...
Diageo/Hotline:

Obama - 50
McCain- 40


Bounce?

Matt said...

So Hotline is a +1 improvement for Obama. Let's see where these other trackers go.

Real Joe said...

17 days to go

who will surge to victory ?

Real Joe said...

pa john said...
Diageo/Hotline:

Obama - 50
McCain- 40


McCain Surge !!!!

Judge C. Crater said...

Us Bumbleweedians are proud of our disproportionate influence on the hearts and minds of America. We've erected a giant HDTV screen (we ripped out the fountain) in the town square to better display the results of our work and to provide our citizens with a place to worship.

After the election is over, a profound funk will settle on our little town. Over the following four years, we will hold weekly candlelight vigils to pray for the imminent return of The Squiggle.

PA John said...

"So Hotline is a +1 improvement for Obama. Let's see where these other trackers go."

It's a net +2, O+1, M-1

Real Joe said...

pa john said...

It's a net +2, O+1, M-1


say WHHHHHHAAAT ?

J said...

Joda, I was just listening to NPR this morning, and on their hourly update they said "More is being learned this morning about Joe the Plumber" followed by how he doesn't make anything near $250k, would do much better under Obama's plan, and how Joe doesn't pay his taxes anyway and isn't even licensed to be a plumber. It didn't point out that he's a registered Republican who's father did 5 years in jail in the last savings and loan scandal and who's father-in-law was implicated in the Keating 5, but it was definitely enough to totally discredit Joe the Plumber.

(My favorite part is that he's neither a Joe nor a plumber. His name's Sam and he's unlicensed.)

Darío said...

Rasmussen:


"48% Say Protecting Environment More Important than Reducing Gas Prices".

MysticLaker said...

pa john, where do you get the early take on d/h poll? I've tried all my tricks (changing URL's, etc).

Aunt Karen said...

Interesting article in the NYT today about voting by mail in Colorado:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/us/politics/17colorado.html?hp

antmatic said...

Oliver Stone's W premiers today. Puts W back in the spotlight 2 weeks before the election not good for McCain

PA John said...

Diageo hotline tracker is at:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/hotline/dailytracker/

*Clicky Clicky*

Darío said...

Antimatic, Rasmussen?

Joe said...

DONT TAKE AWAY MY SQUGGLYS U BEAST

newsfromOH said...

Damn--I just read this AM that Obama was releasing another ad that explains how McCain will pay for his health care tax credit by cutting Medicare.

It's already on the air here in Ohio. I think regular programming may soon be suspended here--all campaign ads all the time.

PorridgeGun said...

Obama's holding a rally in Missouri on Saturday morning.

KMartDad said...

Can someone tell me how Zogby shows a 5 pt lead when, according to the Reuters article, Obama has a 19 pt lead among indies? What am I missing here?

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE49G0V320081017?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10112

Wayward Son said...

The actual point I would want to make is that not everyone watching the debate is interested in the policies being sdiscussed. Some of use have thoroughly made up our minds, we know where the candidates stand based on our own research and intellect, and are only watching the debate in order to see how well our guy/gal is doing.

The squigglies ARE the debate, for us.

I can forgive some of the undecideds, if they previously held a position and are trying to justify moving away from it. Admitting you were wrong is never easy. But I can't for the life of me understand anyone who thinks the two candidates this year are equivalent, and are waiting for a end-of-campaign debate to make up their minds. I accept that they are the focus, since each side is scratching for every percentage point they can get, but considering them to be the midpoint of America would be to say America is uninquisitive and lazy.

Alyssa said...

It's the squiglies that drove me to C-Span for my debate and speech coverage. No pundits there, just you the room and the tv cameras.

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen
O-50
M-46

Unchanged.

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen

51% of Missouri voters think raising taxes on those earnings 250K or more would be good for the economy

31% Disagree

Real Joe said...

newsfromoh said...
Damn--I just read this AM that Obama was releasing another ad that explains how McCain will pay for his health care tax credit by cutting Medicare.

It's already on the air here in Ohio. I think regular programming may soon be suspended here--all campaign ads all the time.


Obama pushing hard

i hear that Obama raised $110 million in September

MysticLaker said...

pajohn,

but that shows 49-41 on the graphic, where do you get 50-40?

Real Joe said...

antmatic said...
Rasmussen
O-50
M-46

Unchanged.


no surge ??

Real Joe said...

mysticlaker said...
pajohn,

but that shows 49-41 on the graphic, where do you get 50-40?


it shows 50-40

are you blind ?

KMartDad said...

Ras isn't out with their numbers yet. Those numbers are from Thursday.

KMartDad said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Bryan said...

Rasmussen

51% of Missouri voters think raising taxes on those earnings 250K or more would be good for the economy

31% Disagree


Somewhere, Joe the Plumber just shed a single tear.

Darío said...

The post-debate tracking polls are all in Sunday.

Real Joe said...



Barack Obama's End Game Will Be On The Ground

Link

PA John said...

@kmart

Antmatic is a subscriber, and gets the numbers early.

His numbers are reliable.

Real Joe said...

kmartdad said...
Ras isn't out with their numbers yet. Those numbers are from Thursday.


hahahahahhaha

MysticLaker said...

actually, i am partially blind in one eye....But, it is a different problem. In firefox it shows the updated graphic, in IE it does not.

KMartDad said...

Sam the unlicensed plumber is a perfect representative for McCain. He doesn't pay his taxes (so what would he care if they DID get raised?). He "hates" social security and is "glad" we're in Iraq. McCain can have him.

joel said...

No change in Rasmussen, landslide back on!!!!!!!

Daniel said...

I don't know if somene has said this yet, but let's put those squiggly lines up when PUNDITS talk and let's just see how well (or not) they are received by the public....

Michael said...

Couple things. R2000 gives the Dems a 10% party id edge over Republicans, and a 4% edge for Independents over Republicans. That can be argued to be too high, but nonetheless, even with a 10% party id edge, McCain was only down 6 in last night's polling. He has been down 10-12 in R2000 for weeks. Tightening in that poll.......

Michael said...

RASMUSSEN IS FROM THURSDAY!
9:30- NEW NUMBERS

KMartDad said...

Thanks for the clarification PA John. Mea Culpa Antmatic.

Matt said...

Michael - antmatic is a Ras subscriber and gets the numbers early.

Check your caps lock.

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen Reporting Schedule

9 AM: Premium members get new tracking numbers in a video from Erica Emmich

9:30 AM: Tracking Poll Numbers posted on website

3:00 PM: Premium members get new state numbers in a video from Erica Emmich

5:00 PM: New state numbers posted on website

Mondays:
6:00 PM: Fox News / Rasmussen State #s posted on web site (no preview for premium members)

CommieChemist said...

NRSC Pulling Out Of Colorado:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/nrsc_pulling_out_of_co.php

p smith said...

So, Zogby and Rasmussen steady. Obama up 2 in Diageo. R2K Obama down 1 but the individual day's polling yesterday was much better for McCain. Could be statistical noise but let's wait and see.

There are more hints today that Powell is about to endorse Obama. If that happens, forget the polls, this thing will be done. Look for big Colin to put in a surprise appearance at a rally today or tomorrow.

MysticLaker said...

p smith,

Powell is on MTP on Sunday. I think it will be there.

Today's big story will be Obama's fundraising numbers I think.

KMartDad said...

Does anyone know what the individual days in the Ras poll show? My guess is that Obama did better in Thursday's polling, stopping the slide. If so, he should post better numbers over the weekend.

LAT said...

P Smith Powell will be on Meet the Press this sunday. I doubt he is there to talk about the Stevens trial.

LAT said...

Mysticlaker you beat me to it.

I actually don't think Obama is going to advertise those numbers today. The market is going to be a bad (futures already down) so they will wait until they have to release them next week)

Michael said...

ZOGBY is not steady folks, read what his post said:

“The one-day total showed Obama with a 3.6% advantage over McCain, while the three-day total showed Obama with a 5.0% edge, 48.7% to 43.7% for McCain.”

PeteKent said...

Some terrified poster wrote: "All the wingnuts are really expanding this 'spread the wealth' nonsense and attempting to exploit joe the f'ing plumber in the process."

A couple of observations: 1) "spread the wealth" is not nonsense and it is what Obama said. He opened the door to exploration of his socialist leanings. It compliments the "dangerous radical" meme.

2) Also why is Joe a "f'ing" plumber? What kind of elitist attack on blue collar folk is that.

We can't all be college professors, someone has to fix the toilets.

I think it best the poster stay up on the roof. She may yet want to jump on November 5th.

Antmatic said...

Two things about DailyKos:

1. It looks like McCain's improvement last night is more statistical noice than anything else

2. McCain's numbers in DailyKos appear too low. McCain was pulling 39s and 40s in the DailyKos tracker - it's obvious that McCain has more support than that. The Obama numbers for that tracker were consistent with other polls. If 50-44 is where R2000 ends up, that's still landslide territory for Obama.

KneeCo said...

The debate commission should step in and ban these on live telecasts of the debates.

The debates, especially when they have a good structure (!= the VP debate), can work as very informative broadcasts even if a lot of it is still stump speeches passed off as answers.

Besides, CNN could market a repeat telecast (the next day?) with the dial bar and like pop-up video style fact checks and stuff.

I doubt the commission will step in however, and I expect a race to the bottom next cycle as all the networks try to get into the action.

Sundan Dolayi said...

The premise of this argument is that people are influenced by what they see on the dynamic chart (second-by-second) vis-a-vis what they see and hear coming from the live debate, and their overall attitude of each candidate is biased by the squiggly lines. I would question the validity of this premise. The squiggly line is one source of information among many others (the substance of what is said, how it was delivered, how the opposing party reacts to it, the reaction from the audience, the reaction from others in your living room or the pub you are watching the debate with, the liveblogging you might be reading on HuffPo etc). All these different pieces of information are integrated real-time by the voter. However, if we follow findings from persuasion research (Petty and Cacioppo's Elaboration Likelihood Model), peripheral cues become effective when there is little ability and motivation for elaboration of arguments. I would think that people who watch these debates are not that unable and unmotivated to elaborate the information they receive from the debaters. Therefore, what these peripheral cues achieve is to polarize them further to their pre-existing attitudes, i.e. if I am an Obama-supporter I become even more confident in my choice as I see higher squiggly lines, and if I am a McCain supporter, I try to discount disconfirming peripheral cues (cognitive dissonance) and commit further to my candidate (self-defense). Unable and unmotivated independents typically sit out these debates. Able and motivated independents will not be easily duped by squiggly lines, they use the central route to persuasion by considering the strength of the arguments. If anything, the poll numbers they are bombarded with everyday would affect them more than what they see on the a squiggly line graphic for every milli-second corresponding to every micro-discourse.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

We find ourselves once again at one of those paramount points in our lives and the path to choose at the crossroads could very well determine our future. With this in mind one must ask....to squiggly, or not to squiggly? That is the question.

Sharkbait said...

Can someone please explain the significance of separating the opinions of men vs. women for the squigglies? Why does this metric matter? What does it tell us about the debate, the public that watches it, and how we view and evaluate discourse? If we're going to go there, why not old vs. young? Dem. vs. Rep vs. Other? Or squigglies by race and class? See what I'm saying? (I am not suggesting we do this, just making some ethnographic parallels to male vs. fem.)

newsfromOH said...

Too bad Meet the Press has Brokaw. I'll actually have to watch it again when Colin Powell is on.

I miss Tim Russert. Gosh, he would have had fun with this campaign . . . and it would have been great to have him challenge some of this nonsense.

Joseph said...

As jwhit mentioned, in Australia the dial-testing is called the Worm. It's been a fixture of political debates here for something like twenty years. In the most recent election cycle (this time last year), it triggered a fairly remarkable dummy-spit.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/10/21/1192940909198.html

For the record, although I supported the candidate who was favoured by, and who favoured the worm, (and subsequently won the election), I agree that it is a fairly ridiculous and at times counter-productive device. It works here, very well, because it turns politics into a sport, and that's about the only way we can watch it. I hope you can kill it off somehow, but I doubt it. The worm will stay.

Darío said...

Populism is more dangerous than elitism.

PA John said...

Politico County Polls:

Obama up in key counties in VA,OH,PA and MO

justin32099 said...

"We can't all be college professors, someone has to fix the toilets."

Well it isn't our pal Joe, who doesn't have a plumber's license. Holding this guy, who lied to Obama about his "situation," owes back taxes, and would benefit much more from Obama's tax plan anyway, up as an example of middle America is a bad strategy for McCain.

Real Joe said...



one of the best political ads in 2008

Link

LAT said...

I agree newsfromOH. Brokaw is so bad. Why can't they replace him already and find someone better? As long as it is not David Gregory who suffers (like John King of CNN) of WH correspondent syndrome.

tomthress said...

"Obama up 2 in Diageo. R2K Obama down 1 but the individual day's polling yesterday was much better for McCain. Could be statistical noise but let's wait and see."

No offense, but when two polls that purport to be measuring the exact same thing move in opposite directions, the reason for that HAS to be statistical noise.

Antmatic said...

When conservatives start citing the DailyKos poll, you know we are in silly season

Wesley said...

Idea for testing the effect of squiggly lines on voters watching:

Take two 30 person focus groups of similar constitution. While one is watching a non-squigglied debate, have the other in the another room watching the debate with the squigglies of the first group scrolling across the screen. Compare. Rinse. Repeat.

PeteKent said...

American Democracy and our Constitution would not permit the banning of squigglies. It amazing to me how the Stalinst left would suspend our freedoms in order to suit their political agenda or their generic views of what is right. And i think the squiggles are distraction too. Turn off CNN.

niedda said...

ALLERT ALERT

battleground OBAMA 53 M40

Michael said...

How is this good news?
In Ohio’s Franklin County, the state’s second-most populous county after Cleveland’s Cuyahoga County, Obama leads by a narrower 45-40 percent margin. Kerry carried Franklin County 54-45 percent in 2004.

In the county I live in, Mahoning, it went 62-38 for Kerry. Some expect 55-45 or worse for Obama because of the Hillary effect. She won here 68-32!!!

LAT said...

funny, you know they have been having trouble finding people to ring the opening bell at DOW this week, so today they have... Miss America. boy.

prairiecomm said...

Answer to the question: How can I download the state-by-state information set out in the right sidebar in a spreadsheet or suchlike?

Suspect prob can't download them since they are prob generated dynamically. But just right click to download the images.

Darío said...

American Democracy and our Constitution would not permit the violation of: Saparation the religion from the State.

Michael said...

NIEDDA:

Battleground was 53-40 on the 13th.

TODAY:
Battleground has it 49-45!

Real Joe said...

niedda said...
ALLERT ALERT

battleground OBAMA 53 M40


hahahahahahhaa

McCain Surge ??

Forcefield said...

Battleground O 49 M 45

Real Joe said...

McCain is coming back to save us

McCain Surge !!

Richard said...

The squiggly makes me think of the Neal Stephenson book "Interface". A bit futuristic, here's the blurb for it:

"There's no way William A. Cozzano can lose the upcoming presidential election. He's a likable midwestern governor with one insidious advantage—an advantage provided by a shadowy group of backers. A biochip implanted in his head hardwires him to a computerized polling system. The mood of the electorate is channeled directly into his brain. Forget issues. Forget policy. Cozzano is more than the perfect candidate. He's a special effect."

IBelFuego said...

"I think the viewer should be entitled to formulate her own, independent reaction to the debate..."

There were how many channels showing the debate? And how many of those weren't running the squiggly?

You have the entitlement--watch CSPAN, PBS, or any of the non-squiggly networks. Why would you insist that the already too-powerful CPD prevent you from indulging your squiggle-fetish, when instead you can simply change the channel?

Jeffrey Putney said...

I wouldn't have much reason to watch the debate without the squigglies. I know what my reaction is going to be. I decided who to vote for years ago. I watch the debate just to try to figure out how the undecided voter is going to be effected.

PeteKent said...

Who cares who Joe really is?

He's a civilian.

He raised an issue.

The issue is valid despite who he might be. Obama committed a gaffe that Joe may not have a license iks totally beside the point.

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it is good for everybody."

Herunar said...

That'd make watching the debate so not fun. And who really formulates his own opinions anyway? If voters actually use their senses, Obama would win by a landslide. That's not how the game is played.

LAT said...

dario--this link is for you from a republican in Virginia complaining about what has happened to the Republican party

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/a-republican-in.html

Forcefield said...

Here, here PeteKent! Everyone is much happier when you cram all the wealth into 1% of the people and leave everyone else to struggle.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

When I see the squiggly's I imagine a bunch of adults on the side playing with etch-a-sketches.

Stephen C. Rose said...

Does this make any sense?

Contractions in Gallup Daily -- McCain gaffes receding in memory or nothing much from Obama. Or both.

Expansion of Obama lead: A major Obama good impression or a remembered McCain gaffe.

Yesterday a contraction, prior to debate results.

Today or tomorrow, the differential should grow because of the debate.

The future:

Major potential Obama good events:

fund raiising results.

A great stump response on the McCain Ayers roboballs. Maybe a reprise of brushing them off.

Major McCain potential gaffes:

the Ayers robocalls are shown to be losing him votes.

something related to Todd's influence on Sarah that would give traction to the presently ignored secession issue.

The conclusion:

If McCain fails to shoot himself in the foot for more than two days running, Obama needs to come up with a positive advance.

PA John said...

So the trackers are basically showing no surge today:

Zogby - no change
RS2000 - 1 pt move to McCain
Hotline -2 pt move to Obama
Battleground -2 pt move McCain
Rass - no change

TIPP and Gallup pending.

Avg: Mcain +0.2%

Thomas said...

The issue is valid? Really. The issue was that Joe would do worse under Obama - that regular people like Joe would be worse.

Well it turns out that regular people like Joe would actually be better.

Of course you Republicans will do anything to ensure that the rich continue to get richer, while the Joe the Plumbers of the world continue to struggle.

p smith said...

Re: Colin Powell. While I agree that he is on Meet the Press to discuss his reasons for endorsing, surely it will have much greater impact if he comes out to a crowd of 20,000 screaming Obama supporters today or tomorrow. It would completely dominate the news cycles over the weekend (killing the Joe the plumber storyline and McCain's tenth comeback in its tracks) and the Sunday interview would then prolong the story yet further.

My guess is it will be today as the media will force the story out if they try to hold on to it too long.

PeteKent said...

The blogosphere is out of control on Joe. They think it is Sarah Palin all over.

If this guy gets destroyed by Obama's left wing media add a point or two to McCain's numbers.

Can't we talk abnout tax policy w/o getting to all these distractions about who Joe is.

Joe is just a symbol.

A powerful one at that, given the reaction to him.

Darío said...

Thanks lat.

"A Republican In Virginia
If you want to know why Obama appears to be ahead in this once-solidly Republican state, this reader will clue you in:

They are killing me. I am a registered Republican. I live in Virginia. But I am clearly not a "Virginia Republican". This ticket and loathesome campaign is a disaster - I haven't left the Republican Party so much as it has left me, at least here in the Commonwealth. The party gladly allowed Rove/GWB to cultivate a certain brand of politics to win and hold the White House. And now that the bill has come due, so few wish to face the music. And in the process - and his quest for office - John McCain has embraced that which he professed to repudiate.

Ignorant Christian Fascism is not a recipe for success, it's Saudi Arabia under a different prophet. Count me out. Despite differing with the Democratic platform on a great number of policies, I will gladly vote for the Obama ticket because at a minimum it promises adults at the helm, a rational approach to policymaking, the return of science over theocracy, the restoration of the primacy of the rule of law, and the creative destruction of that assemblage once known as the GOP".

nextweek said...

What drives me nuts about this is it's another way for the media to make public perceptions the focus of anttention instead of whether what the candidates is saying is true or plausible.

How about a network that hired 24 experts in issues various issues and each time a candidate said something false, an expert could vote to flash "false" on the screen. If at least three did, there'd be a big red "FALSE" stamped on the candidate's face.

pourmecoffee said...

Better idea: show analog tracking graph of Dark Side of the Moon. More relevant.

LAT said...

good point p smith. so let's speculate--where would his appearance make the most impact you think?

Real Joe said...

we want more state polls

tomthress said...

"R2000 gives the Dems a 10% party id edge over Republicans, and a 4% edge for Independents over Republicans. That can be argued to be too high..."

First, R2000 gives Dems a 9 pt party ID edge. But more importantly, buried in Rasmussen's Party ID numbers is something very interesting, and not good for McCain.

Rasmussen's Party ID numbers come from a rolling 6-week average. For this week, that 6-week period is August 31st - October 11th. For this period, Ras reports Party ID as follows:

39.3% Dem, 33.0% Rep, 27.7% Ind

But, Rasmussen also reports Party ID numbers by month. For the month of September, they reported the following:

38.4% Dem, 34.4% Rep, 27.2% Ind

This is the smallest advantage for Dems all year and was due to a surge in Republican Party ID associated with the Republican National Convention the first week in September.

Now, with these two sets of numbers, we can estimate what Party ID was for the non-September portion of the last 6 weeks - i.e., the average of August 31st and October 1 - 11:

41.6% Dem, 29.5% Rep, 29.0% Ind

That's a 12.1% Democratic Party ID advantage!

If these numbers, or really anything particularly close to them, hold going forward, look for there to be a BIG movement in Rasmussen's Party ID targets over the next two weeks as the first weeks of September drop out of their 6-week average and are replaced with weeks showing double-digit Dem leads. And with that, look for Rasmussen's daily tracker - which has been showing Obama running around 0-2 points below the Dem ID the last couple of weeks - to move steadily in Obama's direction, even if there's no actual change in the state of this race.

Antmatic said...

Georgia Early Voting Tracking Stats
10/17 (Total)

635,798 early votes cast
229,185 African Americans (36.0%)
384,574 White (60.5%)

On Votes Cast on Thursday, 10/16
32.4% of voters were black, 65.6% of voters were white

NOTE: Early voting had traditionally favored Republicans in prior elections, indicating a significant shift in voting patterns in 2008

NOTE: GA Secretary of State is encouraging early voting this year

NOTE: GA has one of the strictest voter ID laws in the country

NOTE: According to exit polls, black voters made up only 24% of total voters in Georgia in 2004

NOTE: Black voters make up about 29% of registered voters in GA

NOTE: Ludacris cast his early vote in Georgia for Obama a couple of days ago

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Guess what, libs?

Down to four in Rasmussen!

Another close election!

This thing is within three points, either way. God this is exciting!

Kelly said...

Confession: When the 2nd debate got really boring, I muted the TV and tried to do some work, but left CNN on so I could keep an eye on the squiggles. One more piece of evidence that this election is driving me insane.

On an unrelated note, anyone want to place a bet on when RCP starts using the R2K numbers in their average? It should replace Diageo any day now.

Thomas said...

Just a side note

Obama's local minima in polling according to RCPs average have all come on the day or two after the debates.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Hillary would be up like ten or fifteen right now. Why didn't you pick her libs?

Cubfan said...

Joe Plumber is like Sarah Palin with significantly less bounce. He's started as a slight positive, but his reckless under-vetting will bring him into a crashing negative in a few days. Wait and see the effect on the polls. The GOP needs to stop pushing this guy NOW if they want to have a chance.

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Near endorsement from David Brooks of the NY Times today.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

The frenzy about the Powell endorsement has begun it seems like. I sure hope he doesn't endorse gramps.

justin32099 said...

"Can't we talk abnout tax policy w/o getting to all these distractions about who Joe is."

That is not what McCain wants. He realizes that Obama is getting his message across that if you are in the upper middle class or below, you will get a tax cut from Obama and essentially nothing from McCain. McCain doesn't give two shits about Joe or other people in his economic situation, he wants to help the wealthy more, and thinks that this will somehow help everyone. This is exactly what Bush has done, and it's failed.

Joe is a stunt designed to distract everyone from this fundamental issue.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Who cares what the NYT says? It's in the tank for Obama like the rest of the MSM.

But like I said, this race could go either way. Within three. Margin of error. Too close to call. Down to the wire. Recounts. It's gonna happen, libs. I can feel it. The polls are tightening, and the Republicans are COMING HOME!

PeteKent said...

Obama is a socialist.

People aren't even bothering to whisper it now.

Bill Ayers is a terrorist radical.

Obama is trying to steal the election through ACORN.

He believes that more spending is the answer to everything.

Everyone remembers Rev. Wright.

Obama is a race baiter in the mold of Al Sharpton likes to intimidate white people into silence and cower them by accusing them of racism. That's why there will be a big Bradley Effect. Worth close to five points. It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with Stalinist intimidation tactics.

These are among the reasons why Obama will lose.

Joey said...

I came to the same conclusion after the VP debate (which was the first one I watched on CNN). For the 2nd and 3rd Presidential debates I tivoed CNN while watching a different channel, then went back and watched the dials on FF.

I don't think of the control group as being a representative sample, but it is interesting to see the dynamics within the group (e.g. the general shift toward Obama over the course of the debate).

There are also interesting anomalies that come up. In general, the women in their group like Obama better than the men do and vice versa for McCain. There were interesting moments when the men's dials went up while the women's dials went down. Those moments were interesting to dissect.

I find it interesting, though I wouldn't really claim that it's representative or even useful.

Bex of Ambridge said...

@dario:

Thanks that is a really interesting perspective. I wonder how many Republicans are following you? It seems like a lot. It's also a good reminder to those of us not Americans that Republicans are not the devil... ;-)

On a wider note, there were some comments earlier about how polls themselves can actually affect the vote. All the calls on here for polls in Montana, Arizona, further polls in North Dakota etc. Is that just curiosity or is it because a clear indication that these states have a chance of going blue actually might make them MORE likely to go blue?

PS Morning all (or afternoon here in Scotland)

PoorForm said...

@Nate: Nice job using "her" for the generic possessive. I like it.

Cubfan said...

The nuts are delusional and can't read the state polls, apparently.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

YES! REV. WRIGHT!

SOCIALISM! THATS WHAT OBAMA IS!

God, this race is getting TIGHT BABY!!

Subterranean said...

dario quoth:

"I will gladly vote for the Obama ticket because at a minimum it promises adults at the helm, a rational approach to policymaking, the return of science over theocracy..."

That just about sums it up. Especially---the return of science over theocracy.

Frankly, I'm shocked that there's even hope for America in this regard. Let's not hold our breath.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

State polls are ALWAYS a few days behind national polls.

Wait until next week!

Full speed ahead on the McCain/Palin OCTOBER SURGE!!

tomthress said...

"Down to four in Rasmussen!"

That's unchanged from yesterday.

"Another close election!

This thing is within three points, either way."

How do you make the mathematical leap from "down to four" to "within three points" in two sentences without citing any numbers that actually show the race as being "within three points"?

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Liberals oppose genetically modified foods and nuclear power among other things. Who is anti-science now?

Forcefield said...

TWO TENTHS OF A PERCENT BOUNCE FOR MCCAIN! THE SURGE IS ON BABY!

Cubfan said...

The Obama debate bounce hasn't even kicked in yet, dufus.

LAT said...

y'all that quote is not from Dario (though he sure endorses it) it is from a republican in Virginia who wrote to Andrew Sullivan and it was published in his blog. It embodies a crisis brewing in the Rep party and rightly so.
Sorry dario for speaking for you

justin32099 said...

I'm enjoying the right-wing celebration over McCain narrowing the national gap to 6.6 points. Yippie. This race is sure is getting close.

The GOP may get to 200 electoral votes yet!

PorridgeGun said...

Looks like Rasmussen is at pre-convention retard levels, even if Obama is consistently at 50%.


It's funny, I preferred Battleeground when it contradicted every national poll by showing a +2 McCain lead. Now it's just screwy, like Gallup. Granted it was probably an outlier, but how does a pollster explain a 13 point lead for one candidate on Monday, then following a resounding debate victory on Wednesday, end up only +4 on Friday. It's nutty, and lacking credibility. If Hotline is +10 for Obama, at that'll reflect reality.


Time for a shiny new object.

markedman said...

RWC, Jack Be Nimble and Petekent will keep spewing nonsense if you engage them. Please disengage and ignore. They will stop posting if you don't give them attention, just like children.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Laugh it up, libs.

I'll enjoy seeing your hopes CRUSHED on election night as you bite your nails waiting for the final returns from that ONE SWING STATE Obama needs to win, only to see it slip away from your fingers! It's going to be a real pleasure! LOL!

Antmatic said...

Good to see PeteKent and Right Wing Conspiricist in the mix.

Meanwhile, the early voting numbers in Georgia imply that polls are probably undercounting Obama's lead in states like Virginia, North Carolina and maybe Georgia.