Today we continue our Road to 270 series with the Mount Rushmore State, South Dakota.
BADLANDS AND PRAIRIE, South Dakota had the nation's lowest unemployment several months ago, and the home of Wall Drug will be another state John McCain will collect in an effort to get to 270. While it lingers around the median in several categories (education, manufacturing job share and Starbucks:Walmart ratio), South Dakota has a higher percentage of white evangelicals, Catholics and Mormons. What do you get when a Catholic, an evangelical and a Mormon walk into a bar? A bad joke, probably, and you also get South Dakota.
Key Demographics
Note: Factors colored in red can generally be thought to help McCain. Factors in blue can generally be thought to help Obama. Factors in purple have ambiguous effects. Except where otherwise apparent, the numbers next to each variable represent the proportion out of each 100 residents in each state who fall into that category. Fundraising numbers reflect dollars raised in the 2008 campaign cycle per eligible voter in each state. Figures for seniors and youth voters are proportions of all residents aged 18+, rather than all residents of any age. The figure for education reflects the average number of years of completed schooling for all adults aged 25+. The figure for same-sex households reflects the number of same-sex partner households as a proportion of all households in the state. The liberal-conservative index is scaled from 0 (conservative) to 100 (liberal), based on a Likert score of voter self-identification in 2004 exit polls. The turnout rates reflect eligible voters only. Unemployment rates are current as of June 2008.
What McCain Has Going For Him
South Dakota features a few notable sociological factors in John McCain's favor: more than half of South Dakotans own guns, and only two states have a lower percentage of same-sex households. It's also a higher than normal military veteran state. McCain has nearly equal fundraising figures per capita as Obama here, always a good sign for the Republican this cycle. South Dakota is also very male, very non-black, very non-Hispanic, and has a higher percentage of elderly than most states, which in this election would seem to favor McCain, even as he tanks among older voters worried about things like retirement and Social Security in this economic crisis. Last but not least, Republicans still enjoy a large structural partisan ID advantage in South Dakota, one that helped George Bush win by over 20 points and one that had a 15-point gap in partisan ID-hood in 2004.
What Obama Has Going For Him
A decent population of younger voters, as well as a large Native population with whom Obama does extremely well. Obama was expected to do much better in the primary here, however, and fell short of expectations despite widespread support among the state's superdelegates. Obama could wind up getting this state down into single digits, but this is also a ticket-splitting state, and many will opt to vote for McCain, Johnson and Herseth-Sandlin.
What To Watch For
Not much drama in South Dakota. Safe seats abound, including freshman defender Tim Johnson in the US Senate. After Johnson's 2006 stroke, many Republicans openly speculated that his seat was up for the taking. Johnson's seat is safe, as is Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin's House seat -- South Dakota's lone Congresswoman. All we can really tell you about what to watch in South Dakota -- not even the state legislative races hold much drama in terms of control (both should remain in Republican control), is that Deadwood is still the best TV series of all time, tied for #1 with The Wire. So watch it.
10.13.2008
Road to 270: South Dakota
by Sean Quinn @ 1:04 PM...see also road to 270, south dakota
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243 comments
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!
Second?
Too bad SD can't be fun and switch. Doesn't the saying "everyone else is doing it" mean anything anymore?
~Yari
Obama's new plan for the economy:
http://obama.3cdn.net/009ff9aad4fd7f3acf_58l3mvzb2.pdf
I never got the whole first second thing haha.
McCain Surge
hahaha
Gallup O-51 M-41
Yeah, but did they ever finish Deadwood? It seems like there were supposed to be two movie-length episodes to finish it out, and I never saw them. Just left hanging!
Dang I loved that show.
Deadwood was real, real good.
But The Wire is in a league of its own.
Gallup is 51-41 among registered voters, 51-44 among likely voters using "past voting behavior," 53-43 among likely voters using only present voting intentions.
Nate, you know your site has made it once you starting getting "FIRST!!!" trolls like over at Perezhilton
*sigh*
Gallup is out today:
O: 51% (yesterday 50)
M: 41% (yesterday 43)
So much for that "comeback" that Drudge was pushing!
SUSA Missouri
O:51
M:43
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=114e8715-9896-484e-8403-33855cf31617
That terrorist comment by the GOP leader made me so angry I sent Obama another 25 bucks. Anyone care to join me?
Q: What do you get when a Catholic, an evangelical and a Mormon walk into a bar? [...]
A: South Dakota.
LOL!
Can I plagiarize that joke?
Or has Biden already done it? ;-)
Drudge got PWNED by his reTHUG buddies at Gallup
Obama 53% McSame 43%
bwahahahahaha
I guess the gallup reTHUGS don't want to look like idiots with the coming Obama landslide
2 states in 1 day...good start Sean.
This puts you at 30 states with 22 days remaining (including today).
Stock market going up.
IF the market continued a climb over the next three weeks, would that hurt Obama?
Marist
Ohio
O:49
M-45 LV
Penn
O:53
M:41
http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/
Maybe you could just say "ditto" for your other 3 "Prairie" states and move on to some states more interesting where somebody lives. Beautiful land though.
Not sure if I was just meant to be insulted. Frankly have followed everyone else's lead when they see something and post first. Don't hate cause it wasn't you and all the sudden it's a big deal. I am more concerned with who will be voted in as the next leader of this country than how the first person posts on a website. I wish that was all I had to complain about.
The Wire holds its own...
Isn't there a new PPP Colorado poll? Up 10?
@Joey,
A day or two of stock market gains isn't going to change the underlying economic condition - costs of goods are still much higher, credit is tight, jobs are shaky, and people's investments are still going to be significantly smaller than where they were a year or two ago.
A year ago, the market was over 14,000. Today its struggling to stay above 9,000. It won't be back over 10,000 any time soon.
Genevieve said...
SUSA Missouri
O:51
M:43
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=114e8715-9896-484e-8403-33855cf31617
Hot Damn! Not long before RCP moves MO into the "leaning Obama" category. They just moved ND from "solid McCain" to "leaning McCain". Its all falling apart, bit by bit. McCain should be greatful that the election in on Nov. 4 and not Dec. 4!
"Isn't there a new PPP Colorado poll? Up 10?"
Yes, 52-42
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/
Isn't there a new PPP Colorado poll? Up 10?
That was yesterday, and it's already in the system.
Real Joe said.... McCain Surge hahaha
You know, having seen McCain's campaign rallies, the "Surge" is a pretty good comparison.... a military maneuver without a plan to make political progress
Obama leads among independents by 17 in Zogby and he´s winning only by 4????
I already posted this in a previous thread, but it is too funny:
link
Looking forward to an insightful North Dakota report soon (and maybe a very interesting one).
The amazing thing is, for as "red" as we paint North Dakota, it hasn't elected a Republican to the US Congress since the Reagan administration, it borders the two provinces that are the heart of Canadian NDP socialism. I do think the Canadian federal election this week is getting some play into North Dakota.
Prairie populism is not dead in the US, either. Garrison Keillor jokes that "they've installed a latte machine in the basement of the Lutheran church in Lake Wobegon".
JOHN SYDNEY McCAIN: MY PRESIDENT-ELECT, MY HERO, MY FRIEND!
1. John Sydney McCain is a courageous man.
2. John McCain is an honorable man.
3. John McCain never lied.
4. John McCain is a handsome man.
5. John McCain never lied about palling around with Muslim terrorists and voter fraud (ACORN)
6. John McCain is a smart man.
7. John McCain is a sexually arousing man.
8. John McCain is a CHRISTIAN patriot man.
9. John McCain is a mighty mighty fine man.
10. John McCain is a trained fighter pilot.
JOHN SYDNEY McCAIN: MY PRESIDENT-ELECT, MY HERO, MY FRIEND!
WOW!! Look at that margin in Missouri!!
If this margin is duplicated in other polls, then it's game over for McCain
Why is SD's unemployment rate so low? I thought the Plains States were all having issues.
Today's Poll results
10/13 -- National (Democracy Corps) -- O+10
10/13--National (ABC News)--O+10
10/13 -- National Tracker (R2K/DailyKos) -- O + 12
10/13 -- National Tracker (Gallup) -- O+10
10/13 -- National Tracker (Diageo/Hotline) -- O + 6
10/13 -- National Tracker (Battleground) -- O + 8
10/13 -- National Tracker (Rasmussen) -- O + 5
10/13 -- PA (Marist) -- O + 9(RV) +12(LV)
10/13 -- Pennsylvania (Muhlenberg) -- O + 13
10/13 -- MO (SUSA) -- O + 8
10/13 -- Nevada (LasVegas Review Journal) -- O+2
10/13 -- Ohio (Marist) -- O + 8(RV) +4(LV)
10/13 -- North Dakota (Public Affairs Institute) -- O+2
He
People may be inclined to at least consider taking you seriously if you just learned how to spell
Yvonne said...
I already posted this in a previous thread, but it is too funny:link
-------------------------------------------------------------
That's hilarious. If you haven't heard it, your missing out.
I didn't mean a day or two
I mean from now to election day.
If there is a perceived appearance of the economy improving, does that cut into Obama's numbers?
Thanks Matt,
I am still laughing.
IGNORE "HE"
New to all the poll updates, why does RCP show MO blue when it was stated to be a lean McCain? Sorry for the silly questions for you pros, but trying to get things done for the boss at the same time of reading and writing....
Obama speech Live
http://us.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2
Hahhaaha. Looking at today's poll results, i'm laughing hysterically at the drudge narrative.
=) It's good to be blue, thats for sure.
RCP has a new poll factored in the MO Obama+8 SUSA, CJ happenings
that SUSA Missouri poll is NUTS
does it look reliable to you more educated poll watchers?
I can't believe it!
With those polls, I bet McCain pulls out of PA by week's end...especially if the MO polls are true, and WV/ND continue to narrow
Time-CNN polls coming out tomorrow morning
OBAMA is speaking in Toledo, OH this afternoon to deliver a 'major policy speech'
job creation, tax relief, other bold new ideas Obama will propose today...
I thought that was supposed to be McCain's 'new' strategy today ???
will Obama preempt Mac once again ???
this is just getting too weird folks - WTF
Obama must have 'moles' inside the GOPer HQ or else he is using Nancy Reagan's astrologists perhap...
What this doesn't say is that there is a VERY restrictive anti-choice measure on the ballot. A similar initiative failed last election, so this one includes some exceptions. I haven't seen any polling on it, but fear that it may pass.
I was lucky enough to attend his rally in Watertown, SD and got great front row seats. I was shocked at the number in attendance at the rally as the place was filled to over capacity.
I don't think he can win the state as they aren't any advertisements hitting on McCain's biggest weakness here, his staunch opposition to ethanol subsidies. So I think an effort by Obama could easily flip SD blue this election, but for now it is pretty much pointless as he doesn't need it and the flip would be a short term one that is unique to this cycle.
For a bit a felt sorry for McCain as it became clear his whole campaign was falling apart and that Obama had been able to set the "tone" of the campaign ("out-of-touch" and recently "erratic"). I had respect of him in 2000 even if I didn't know much about him then.
But after seeing him and Palin stir the hatred of anyone not man and white I've changed my mid, he deserves no pity.
I'm proud that most American not only (seem to) ignore his attacks; not only choose to vote against him but also speak out against the hatred.
Only in a great and free country will hatred not be tolerated.
While many things looks like 1929 all over again it seems that we have learned. After 1929 came the great depression thanks to countries all going their own separate ways. Hopefully todays actions shows we will not let that happen again.
The great depression enabled fascism to win in Europe which lead to the 2nd great war. When people are fearful (of the coming change) they stop thinking critically. If leaders doesn't try to calm these fears through leadership and instead stoke the flames by providing easy scape goats and targets (say muslims, foerigners and wall-street) bad thing can happen.
Not that I want to compare McCain/Palin to fascists but I am truly afraid that stoking the fears this year could be the start of a downward spiral of hatred/fear.
I'm proud that so many American speak out against any hint of stoking the flames. It gives me hope.
"With those polls, I bet McCain pulls out of PA by week's end...especially if the MO polls are true, and WV/ND continue to narrow"
If he pulled out of all the states he's significantly behind in, he'd have literally no path to victory whatsoever.
He can't afford to pull out of Pennsylvania, it represents his last desperate hope.
Real Joe,
I'm confused... are you supporting Obama now?
todays troll in residence said
JOHN SYDNEY McCAIN: MY PRESIDENT-ELECT, MY HERO, MY FRIEND!
1. John Sydney McCain is a courageous man.
2. John McCain is an honorable man.
3. John McCain never lied.
4. John McCain is a handsome man.
5. John McCain never lied about palling around with Muslim terrorists and voter fraud (ACORN)
6. John McCain is a smart man.
7. John McCain is a sexually arousing man.
8. John McCain is a CHRISTIAN patriot man.
9. John McCain is a mighty mighty fine man.
10. John McCain is a trained fighter pilot.
JOHN SYDNEY McCAIN: MY PRESIDENT-ELECT, MY HERO, MY FRIEND!
------------------
Ok so you couldn't come up with 10 things to say about McCain then, given that you repeat yourself about 4 times there. BUT also McCain never lied? Ever? You sure?
And who are you suggesting has liefd about palling around with muslim terrorists?
Tim Johnson isn't a freshman senator.
is the "McCain Surge" just media hype ?
real joe
Only if you consider the Drudge Report part of the media. If not then it doesn't exist at all.
Been reading longer than I've been posting, as will become obvious in a sec.
Got a couple of questions.
Why is it that I can't see the recent comments once the # of comments goes over a threshold (250, I think)? No, refreshing the page doesn't help.
Why is there a lot of white space on the opening page, between paragraphs of certain articles?
Don't tell me, these are some helpful "features" of stupid IE.
Is it me, or is RCP a little slow in including the Obama +10 Gallup and Democracy Corp. national polls?
BTW, Nate, get on the blower if that crooked shit doesn't include Democracy Corp. He included the last one which inexplicably showed McCain only behind by 3%.
You forgot to mention SD's big "casino" industry. That's probably big for McCain!
Actually, what are called "casinos" in SD are little rooms in truck stops and bars where you can play video poker. But when you drive up I-29 you see a "CASINO" sign for almost every exit.
I'm guessing that most of us think that the MO SUSA poll is on the high side of things. It probably points to a O+2 or O+3 lead in the state.
SD represents what's so detrimental about the electoral college. With a population just below 800,000 and 3 electoral votes, 1 SD electoral vote = approx 266,666 SD voters.
I vote in NY, however, and with our 19,200,000 population and 31 electoral votes, 1 NY electoral votes = approx 620,000 NY voters. So a South (or North) Dakotans vote matters 3 times more than my vote. So much for equal representation!
Even if you're for the electoral college, we should cut out the 2 electoral votes each state gets for its Senators. Nate... after the election, how about using this site as a platform for a constitutional amendment?
Rich
markymark said...
real joe
Only if you consider the Drudge Report part of the media. If not then it doesn't exist at all.
poor Matt will wet his pants
Stefan said...
"Why is SD's unemployment rate so low? I thought the Plains States were all having issues."
Well, we are having some issues w/ manufacturing, but we are less manufacturing oriented than biggest states and have a lot of manufacturing that is still enjoying great success. Add onto the fact that Sioux Falls (by far the largest city in SD) is enjoying a surge as a regional medical provider (Sanford invested a ton of money to the local hospital).
But around here farming is still king and farmers are enjoying grain prices and that lifts up everything in the area. We have long suffered from a shortage in workers (my father is a plumbing contractor and has much greater difficulty getting good workers as opposed to work).
Sp:
To see comments beyond 200 (or so) click the "post comment" link at the bottom of the comment thread. This brings up a new window and in that window you have a "newest" link that you can click. This new window you can refresh to see comments beyond 200.
Took me a couple of days to realize.
John McCain is one ZERO who ISN'T my hero!
@sp
click on the "Post a comment" link. It will bring up another window where you can get to all posts.
MARKY
please do not feed the trolls like HE
best to ignore them, and never repost the dung they paste on the blog...
it only reinforces their message & encourages them
besides he has been proven numerous times to be a fraud...
DNFTT
The Arizona Republic commissioned a second, updated poll with Arizona State University of Arizona voters that was supposed to be published this past weekend. It appears the results were not published as scheduled.
When pressed, their editorial board said they will be combining polls for update next Sunday.
Why not publish the results and follow up with a second poll next week? Here is why:
1008 LV with a weighting of 1.02. McCain 48, Obama 45.5...+/-3 MOE.
...in Arizona.
The Republic has had a love/like history with McCain. They are sensative to not ticking him off since they did some crude cartoons about Cindy McCain's addiction to prescription drugs.
They will do the second poll and if things do not change to McCain's favor, they have a tough decision to make in running the results.
It is nice to have friends at AP.
sp,
if you go post comment thing, a dialogue box opens from where you can read all the posts. (The limit for only reading comments is 200 btw)
Nice to have you commenting!
"Actually, what are called "casinos" in SD are little rooms in truck stops and bars where you can play video poker. But when you drive up I-29 you see a "CASINO" sign for almost every exit."
I was shocked by this when I moved to ND from Illinois last week.
I had always joked that people were idiots for being attracted to big, shiny Vegas casinos, because that big and shinyness was built on the house edge. They should seek out dumpy, run-down casinos.
I had no idea they actually existed...
Rich Merritt said...
"[Complaints about EC]"
Move then.
Go back and read John Adams writing, they are as true today as they were then.
I don't agree w/ my state politically for the most part, but rural America needs a voice and the EC at least helps that.
SP
after 200 comments, you need to click on "Post a comment", it will open a blogger window. On the top corner you can click on newer and newest posts above 200 posts.
I think we all should send Nate an email (address?) to address this issue. Even with the blogger window it is a pain to refresh.
Notice how RCP is slow to update the new Gallup poll... According to what they have for yesterday, they should put the LV method 2, which is 53-43 for Obama...
"I was shocked by this when I moved to ND from Illinois last week."
Last month, I mean.
Drudge won't have the new Gallup poll on his site any time soon.
Instead, he has a lovely picture of Obama kissing a white woman...
You can only see comments up to 200. After that, you have to click on the red "Post A Comment" at the bottom of the comments to see all of those past 200.
Just a funky part of this site...
InkStain said...
"I had always joked that people were idiots for being attracted to big, shiny Vegas casinos, because that big and shinyness was built on the house edge. They should seek out dumpy, run-down casinos.
I had no idea they actually existed..."
There are nice casinos in South Dakota (in Deadwood and Indian Casinos), but "video poker casinos" are a scourge and a pox on the state. It really makes me sick how the state exploits gambling addicts in this way. Hopefully at some point we will be able to get an initiative passed to get rid of them.
Jebus, how do people fall for He over and over again?
The guy is a reverse troll, not even a regular troll. He's not pro-McCain. Chill out.
hurn0003 said...
Rich Merritt said...
"[Complaints about EC]"
Move then.
Go back and read John Adams writing, they are as true today as they were then.
I don't agree w/ my state politically for the most part, but rural America needs a voice and the EC at least helps that."
PLEASE read what I write. I didn't say do away with the EC, simply modify it by removing two votes from each state so that it's democratic, not oligarchical. Rural American will still have a voice this way. BTW I already moved... from South Carolina to NY. So no thanks, I'll pass on the warm invitation to move again.
RichM
Voice of the Midwest
Details please, if you can! :)
"PLEASE read what I write. I didn't say do away with the EC, simply modify it by removing two votes from each state so that it's democratic, not oligarchical. Rural American will still have a voice this way. BTW I already moved... from South Carolina to NY. So no thanks, I'll pass on the warm invitation to move again."
That still significantly shifts power away from one group of Americans and towards another.
ADVICE on the best strategy to efficiently use this site:
RIGHT click on the 'post a comment'
then choose 'open in a new TAB'
that will create a new tab for viewing the comments in a seperate window at the top
now you can monitor both the 538 site separately while blogging & still posting comments on the second tab independently
PLUS that is the only way I know of to view the blog/comments on the thread in a full screen layout rather than in the tiny condensed window
you can still jump ahead on the second tab to the 'newest' comments as well
try it, you will like it !!!
I just interested to know how He can back up what he is saying. (Generally my opinion with trolls is to call them out, and show them up, I tend to think rignoring them just eggs them on a bit to repost and to generally get more annoying.)
Maybe now we know why McCain was in IA. Maybe his best shot at flipping a state is to pray for a ten point swing!
Inkstain--have you been in one of those "casinos"? You will be underwhelmed.
Rich Merritt said...
"PLEASE read what I write. I didn't say do away with the EC, simply modify it by removing two votes from each state so that it's democratic, not oligarchical. Rural American will still have a voice this way. BTW I already moved... from South Carolina to NY. So no thanks, I'll pass on the warm invitation to move again."
Modifying it this way is tantamount to getting rid of it. Already the entire plains region has the EV of a state like IL.
To follow up on Sean's ill-attempted joke.
What do you get when a Catholic, an evangelical and a Mormon walk into a bar?
More meds for your hallucinations.
"is the "McCain Surge" just media hype?" (Real Joe)
While a horse race does sell ad time at a higher rate, there is no real "surge" happening here. Except in Matt Drudge's head.
In a year where 90% of the people believe the country is going in the wrong direction, John McCain - the standard bearer for the party that got us to this pathetic point - will still get 45% of the vote.
Barack Obama will likely get in the 50 to 52 range.
EVs may be a different story.
Anyone who thinks that Wall Street having a few up days hurts Obama is as out of touch with regular folk as McCain is ...
The fact is , unless people can get their credit back, afford houses and jobs become abundant, the economy issue will still hurt both candidates until one of them proves he is better at restoration than the other ...
InkStain said...
"PLEASE read what I write. I didn't say do away with the EC, simply modify it by removing two votes from each state so that it's democratic, not oligarchical. Rural American will still have a voice this way. BTW I already moved... from South Carolina to NY. So no thanks, I'll pass on the warm invitation to move again."
That still significantly shifts power away from one group of Americans and towards another.
Isn't most of NY state rural?
but the power shift is from inequality to better equality. Every American would have a proportionate vote for president. Right now a South Dakotans vote counts 3 times as much as a New Yorkers, Texans or Californians. That violates Supreme Court rulings dictating proportional representation.
And there are plenty of rural areas in NY, CA and TX.
Rich
RCP has Gallup as
O: 52
M: 43.5
Really? We're doing half points now?
Say what you want about Republicans, but they are about as transparent as you can be while still maintaining your property as a solid.
IF there was going to be any change to the EC what I would do is quite simple, retain the 2 votes for winner take all, and then the proportional number give to winners of each congressional district. (I assume thats what Maine and Nebraska do?)
Thanks, y'all for the help. I had very conveniently not noticed the links at the top of the window that would allow for newer posts to be pulled up.
To get back on topic, the SUSA poll for MO looks unreal. I'd be shocked if it is an accurate reflection of the way things are. Then again, I very confidently told my brother back during the primaries that this country is not ready to elect a woman or a person of color to be the president. I'd be happy to be wrong on all accounts.
RCP is going to use the average of the two Gallup likely vote totals
+7 and +10 (for an average of +8.5 for Obama).
I would assume that this site will do so as well.
The Wire is the best show of all time.
It's Barack Obama's favorite show. That's another reason to vote for him.
http://www.motherjones.com/riff_blog/archives/2008/01/6933_barack_obama_sa.html
RCP is posting Gallup at 8.5! They are averaging the old and new likely likely voter screens! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RCP = bias is us!
"RCP has Gallup as
O: 52
M: 43.5
Really? We're doing half points now?"
They averaged together the two LV models Gallup put out. It seems like a reasonable strategy to me.
"but the power shift is from inequality to better equality. Every American would have a proportionate vote for president. Right now a South Dakotans vote counts 3 times as much as a New Yorkers, Texans or Californians. That violates Supreme Court rulings dictating proportional representation."
You are focusing on one type of equality and ignoring another.
In any non-homogenous country, the smaller regions with unique cultures have to be given electoral concessions in order to make their participation in the nation attractive, otherwise they'd be better off on their own.
The EC as we have it may not be the best compromise, but some compromise is necessary.
"That violates Supreme Court rulings dictating proportional representation. "
Actually, it supersedes it.
No, Nate, go with the new Gallup model that is intended to show what is happening today, not in 1860.
RCP has it at 364-174, no toss ups.
@UT,
Gallup issued two sets of likely voter numbers. RCP averaged them.
"that SUSA Missouri poll is NUTS
does it look reliable to you more educated poll watchers?
I can't believe it!"
If you compare it to the SUSA poll before the party affiliations are similiar differ by just 1.
3 big things are different.
1)McCain's 20pt lead among 65+ is down to 9. He was leading 50-64 by 5 now he is traiking by 10. This follows the trend of the polls the last 2 weeks of Mccain lead among older voters shrinking b/c the y are retired or near retirement and think Obama is better on the economy. They are watching their 401K's get killed.
2) Previous SUSA poll McCain lead among Indies's by 7 now Obama leads by 5.
3) Obama picked up 7 pts among Dems support and McCain lost 5 pts among Repubs support.
One could argue that McCain's fav/unfav are at there lowest levels just +7 according to RCP average and Obama's are at the highest +21 in along time. This could illustrate that the negative atacks have not woorked and just turned Indie's more towards Obama.
Rich Merritt said...
"And there are plenty of rural areas in NY, CA and TX. "
First the EC is not unconstitutional.
Second, those rural areas have almost 0 voice in those states which are dominated by urban areas. You really think that NYs EC votes represent the rural areas?
I think the EC gives rural areas and small states some voice and it will never change. Basically because no way would smaller states ratify it.
Yes, and RCP was wrong to do so. It is stupid of Gallup to hedge their bets in the first place, and it is wrong to use the old model when the pollster developed a new model for this election.
Laughable, in fact.
hurn0003 said...
"Modifying it this way is tantamount to getting rid of it. Already the entire plains region has the EV of a state like IL."
it's not really the same as getting rid of it. Just look at what Nate and Sean have posted about the single votes in Maine and Nebraska and how hard the campaigns are working just to get those single votes. With the electoral college, there would still be battles even for states with single electoral votes in close elections. If we did away with the system, THEN the battle would swtich to high population areas where ads reach the most voters. Keeping the winner-take-all system (as opposed to ME and Nebraskas') requires campaigns in individual states.
Rich
more advice to the newbies on this site
besides RIGHT clicking on 'Post a Comment' to view the comment thread in a separate window [choose 'Open a new tab']...
and using the 'newest' link to jump ahead in 200 comment increments...
you can constantly 'refresh' the comment thread [or the 538 site in a seperate window] by simply using your F5 button
enjoy !!!
It may seem reasonable, but it wouldn't happen if it didn't give McCain a bump and if it didn't feed the fabricated comeback story.
RCP has just become a farce.
Obama's economics speech is really good. Shared prosperity, greatness of America stuff...
RE: "people of color" comment above
We are ALL people of color - white is a color too, after all.
/not a shot at the author of this quote, just commentary on the quote itself
I love ya' Sean, but how about a few *seconds* of research to fill out your numbers?
2006 General Election Reigstration:
Rep. 47.34%
Dem. 37.64%
http://www.sdsos.gov/electionsvoteregistration/pastelections_electioninfo06_generalvoterregistrationtotals.shtm
2008 Primary Registration
Rep. 46.31%
Dem. 38.38%
http://www.sdsos.gov/electionsvoteregistration/pastelections_electioninfo08_primaryvoterregistrationtotals.shtm
DCM in FL said...
ADVICE on the best strategy to efficiently use this site:
RIGHT click on the 'post a comment'
How do you do this on a Mac?
But I agree we'll never get rid of the EC. It favors republicans too much.
Rich
another AMAZING & timely speech by Obama just ended in Toledo, OH
WOW - what a stark difference compared to the nasty hatefulspeeches earlier today from Palin & McCain
especially in content & tone
they should show them on split screen
which one is performing in a POTUS mode ???
no doubt about it
and then Bush makes another ill-timed appearance on TV this morning
looks like a fool & sounds like a defeated man
even more BAD news & terrible timing for Mac
his stars are NOT aligned...
Does anybody know what states Rasmussen is releasing polls on today?
6 p.m. Eastern: Virginia President
6 p.m. Eastern: North Carolina President
6 p.m. Eastern: Missouri President
6 p.m. Eastern: Ohio President
6 p.m. Eastern: Florida President
And McCain wanted to rule every news cycle. To rule a news cycle you actually have to present information...
"Details please, if you can! :)" (Joseph)
A friend working out of the a midwestern city AP office worked in a past life with the AZ Republic. He talked to a friend out there who still writes for the paper.
They commissioned the follow up poll with ASU with an out clause that they reserved the right not to publish it. That is fine. But the reporter said the editors are holdouts from the era that the paper was owned by the Pulliams (Quayle's family). They got into a tiff with McCain in the 90s and they remain confused on their relationship with him.
They can poll and not publish it. That is their right. But my friend's pal in AZ was given the horse race numbers (48 M 45.5 O)and told by his editor that they wanted a second run in polling with fewer questions. No matter what, they have to live with McCain after the election and getting a friendlier result with a smaller sample is (as the editor put it) "the safer route we can take".
McCain's past angry calls to the editors have made the publishing of this poll an unimaginable thought for the editors. They don't want the call from the Senator.
If they get a +4/-4 MOE of 600 LVs at 50-40 in McCain's favor, they will publish next weekend. If not, count on crickets chirping next week and the first results from AZ on election night to show Maricopa County voting for Obama and lengthening the night for AZ to go red.
The Wire > Deadwood.
The Wire at least ended.
PEIXEGATO
sorry, I have no advice for the Apple/Macx users...
my shortcuts probably apply to IE only a windows platform ???
but since your system is superior, there must be a way to improve your blogging performance ???
McCain campaign attacks Bill Kristol: "He’s bought into the Obama campaign’s party line."
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/13/nancy-v-bill-kristol/
Palin says McCain will end "abuses of power" in Washington
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/13/palin-abuse-of-power/
Well, Goddamn. I've heard it all now.
If not for Chicago, Illinois would be another Great Plains state.
(And as a deep deep deep downstate native, I'm all for giving Chicago back to Wisconsin.)
Folks, come up with a hypothetical best path for McCain. It's really, really tough. Is it win all of the states other than Kerry + NM and Iowa? If you happen to lose Colorado or Virginia then flip Minnesota and or New Hampshire. Keep your fingers crossed that somehow you win New Mexico and/or Wisconsin and squeak out Ohio, florida and others. I just don't see a reasonable path. Perhaps don't lose any Bush '04 states but NM and Iowa and if you happen to lose Colorado or Virginia then flip Nh or Minny. Seems like very, very long odds.
Voice of the Midwest
Thanks for the details! Personally, I hope that the 2nd poll confirms the findings of the first one, but preferences aside, what does McCain have on the newspaper's board that makes them so scared of him?
It's not like he can get them shut down for publishing bad news...(I hope) ;)
Not trying to split hairs Joseph, but the term 'person of color' (of which I am one) has historically been used in this country to to mean someone other than a white person.
Sorry 'bout going OT, everyone.
As a born and bred South Dakotan, I agree with Sean's take. SD has a split personality. While we consistently elect Republicans to state offices, we also consistently send Democrats to Washington.
I would not, however, be suprised to see SD swing in the next cycle.
Right clicking on a Mac = hit control and click at the same time.
TBender said...
If not for Chicago, Illinois would be another Great Plains state.
(And as a deep deep deep downstate native, I'm all for giving Chicago back to Wisconsin.)
Nobody cares what you want. Just ot give you an idea though. If Chicago were in Wisconsin, then Wisconsin would be worth about 20 electoral votes, guaranteed every cycle for the Dems. Illinois about 10 most of the time for the Republicans. Then how about we merge DC into Virginia. Virginia can be 15 electoral votes guaranteed for the Dems. Your thought process is poor, if you're suggesting the electoral college is not fair to the Pubs.
Oh for crying out loud, McCain is on the cable news live for the second time today. And really long segments too.
PORRIDGE
what a wonderful turn of events to watch the GOPers eat their own
Kristol gets it today, Buckley got it a few days ago when he jumped ship to publicly state he would vote for Obama, even George Will is getting their hate
Gov Crist here in FL has informed the GOPers that he is no longer able to actively campaign for McCain - he reads the wind & they are blue as McCain/Palin favorables tank here & are dragging Crist down with them
Charlie claims he must concentrate on the bad FL economy all of a sudden - so he suspended his 'campaign' for McCain !!!
rats are fleeing the sinking ship
Robert said...
And McCain wanted to rule every news cycle. To rule a news cycle you actually have to present information...
Maybe McCain can talk ACORN and present this as new information. He'll rule at least one cycle.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall
SP
I understand, and the context you used is certainly correct. I was just taking a more existential approach to the concept. :D
/had way too much coffee today
Tom Daschle sucks. He's maybe my least favorite Dem.
"(And as a deep deep deep downstate native, I'm all for giving Chicago back to Wisconsin.)"
85% of all residents in the state of Illinois live north of I-80. I am sure Rockford and the Quad Cities would prefer going with Chicago if you decree the reissuance of that area to Wisconsin! ;)
That means about 90% of the state has 15% of the population. At current, 93% of state tax revenues come from communities north of I-80.
You need Chicago and the northern belt in Saluki Country more than you know. Great city and in my opinion, the best in America. Sorry NY and LA.
Voice of the Midwest...You need Chicago and the northern belt in Saluki Country more than you know. Great city and in my opinion, the best in America. Sorry NY and LA.
Agreed. Got to love Chicago.
Thanks for the info, hurn0003!
Nice to hear that there's one state that's actually doing well. Hope it's sustainable. What are the biggest staple crops in the area? Is it grain-based or more of an industrial corn/soybean economy like Iowa's?
Yvonne.
Having McCain on TV is a great thing. The more people see his angry hysteric wrinkled old face the more they dislike him.
Put him on a 24/7 loop say I.
does anyone else notice how HARD McCain put his emphasis on the word 'kill' in his new stump speech ???
he practically spits it out with contempt - just saw him do it again right now in NC !!!
Mac = kill, kill, kill - even though the speech reference is superficially on Obama 'killing' jobs through his policies, it is the Mccain delivery that has clear subliminal messaging
geez it is a call to arms & inciting hatred !!!
John Lewis was so on the money - it is hateful & fear mongering
Who are the decent Pubs left that could be a national candidate?
Romney
Crist
Jindal
Whitman?
Jeremy,
you might be right, but I always hit the mute button. I just can't stand the guy.
WTF are the morons at RCP playing at? Gallup: Obama 8.5%??? It's either 10% RV or 10% LVII. Where the hell did they pull 8.5% from?
At least now we know why it took so long for the updates.
And why isn't Democracy Corp. national poll included? I don't care what bullshit reason they've given, they included last week's poll which was beneficial to McCain.
Guys, I was joking (sort of).
When I lived in Pope County and then Springfield, it was tiring to hear people say they've been to Illinois when they went to Chicago.
I actually like the town too, perhaps we just move the Suburbs and the Cubs to Wisconsin? :)
Porridge, click on the link there.
They're averaging both LV models.
You gotta love how the MSM is trying desperately to make this race look close. Here's the headline on one of CNN.com's stories: "McCain makes gains in battleground state". When you click on the link, its an article saying that while "Pennsylvania may be slipping from John McCain's grasp", McCain is keeping the race close in OH.
Of course, they are only looking at their own polls and the spin on the story is dizzying.
Unbelievable.
In fairness to McCain and his emotions right now, it must be terrible to be midway through an election and be prettysure of losing it. Some people just crumble, a la Dukakis, McCain seems to be getting angrier and more aggressive to the young upstart who is about to deny him his birthright.
Technical question, as soon as I am in the blogger window and hit refresh, the site always jumps to the top, not the last post. It only does that in the blogger window, not in any other window, so I always have to scroll down after refreshing. Kind of annoying. Anything I can do about that? Computer experts anyone?
McCain = tired old politician.
Obama = Next Generation Global Leader
Its not even close folks.
RCP has still not included the new DCorps poll O+10 - what a joke,
they did find time to include the compromise Gallup average across the polls
but the RCP average is back to over +7% Obama even without DCorps or R2000
some tightening of the race indeed...
next they will try to sell the narrative that a low score is good news for Mccain - like in golf ???
he is really ahead by being behind...
all he has to do is eagle every hole on the back nine
"Thanks for the details! Personally, I hope that the 2nd poll confirms the findings of the first one, but preferences aside, what does McCain have on the newspaper's board that makes them so scared of him?" (Joseph)
McCain and the Republican Party of Arizona are tied at the hip with corporate Arizona. They advertise in the Republic and you know how that industry is going (bad).
When they dissed McCain the first time in the 90s, he faxed them a letter that the state party was going to send to their top corporate contributors if they did not stop with the stories on Cindy and his role in the Keating Five.
It was basically a "Boycott the Republic" letter. Back then, the Pulliam/Quayles owned the paper. When the family editors back in Indy got word that the local editors (all Republicans, all conservatives) were off of the reservation with McCain, they called and threatened their jobs if they did not fly right. The local editors were not convinced that the early 90s John McCain was the same John McCain they endorsed with glee in the 1980s.
But the Pulliams convinced the locals otherwise. The local editors have a bad taste in their mouth over McCain. Embarassing him is a risk they shy away from at the Republic. They knew Barry Goldwater...to them, John McCain is no Barry Goldwater.
markymark,
regarding your comment, did you see my link to a hilarious spoof of a voicemail of McCain on Obama's phone?
I've finally started watching The Wire. I'm on episode 9 of season 1. It's great so far.
Spread The Truth About ACORN.
Yvonne said...
Technical question, as soon as I am in the blogger window and hit refresh, the site always jumps to the top, not the last post. It only does that in the blogger window, not in any other window, so I always have to scroll down after refreshing. Kind of annoying. Anything I can do about that? Computer experts anyone?
I've also got that prop. It doesn't jump to the top if I've clicked on some text before refreshing. Hope that helps.
Stefan said...
"Is it grain-based or more of an industrial corn/soybean economy like Iowa's?"
I haven't recently looked to see what percentage of crops are each in SD, but SD has traditionally been pretty diverse. We often have been near the lead in some categories (honey production, semolina wheat, etc.), but never seem to focus in one area. The Western part of the state is much different than the East as well. West River is a lot more ranching/grazing land.
DCM in FL said...
John Lewis was so on the money - it is hateful & fear mongering
Yeah, you know part of me was scared on the day Barack was nominated that the older Black generation (Cummings, Lewis, Jackson, etc.) was too happy and OBama would suffer a white backlash. A sort of, ok you got the nomination, that seems to be enough to appease you, now let's go ahead and elect the old white vet. The polls didn't look good over the next few weeks for a variety of reasons for Obama and I thought that may have been one of them. Then when Lewis spoke up I cringed a little thinking all the subnconsciously prejudice white folks need is an excuse, don't give it to them. But you know what, I'm glad somebody said it. I was thinking the same thing and somebody had the nerve to actually speak truth to power. The McCain camp has since stood down some. I don't think it was particularly because of LEwis, but I'm glad he stood up. OF course, I'll sing a different tune if Obama doesn't end up winning.
Illinois is not a plains state. Its northern half is prairie; the southern half has more affinity to the south.
Iowa isn't a plains state either - one of the bigger surprises in my travels is how hilly it is as one drives I80 east/west.
The plains begin at the Missouri River from Nebraska south, and then throw in the Dakotas.
YVONNE
use my advice to right click on the comments then open a new tab to view all comments in a full window seperately
I find that when I refresh [F5] in that tab window, I usually remain at the same spot in the comment thread
Jeremy said...
They're averaging both LV models.
Bollocks.
Not what you said, what RCP are doing. It's +10 for Obama.
The bad news for the Dems today: Tim Mahoney probably pissed away his Florida House seat.
The double bad news: it was for...wait for it...adultery, when he was the one who campaigned on replacing Mark "maf54: do i make you a little horny" Foley.
Josh said...
I've finally started watching The Wire. I'm on episode 9 of season 1. It's great so far.
Spread The Truth About ACORN.
More truth about ACORN
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall
1)McCain's 20pt lead among 65+ is down to 9. He was leading 50-64 by 5 now he is traiking by 10. This follows the trend of the polls the last 2 weeks of Mccain lead among older voters shrinking b/c the y are retired or near retirement and think Obama is better on the economy. They are watching their 401K's get killed.
That's definitely the dramatic pull, I agree. But, I think there's been a wider-spread pull that's been going on for a few weeks. I think the older crowd's BS meter is slowly moving as Palin unfolds before their eyes. The bottom falling out of the market gave them a kick in the pants to move en masse. Even without the market, the repulsion to Palin's stench would have ended up putting the elderly vote just about where it's going to be anyway.
Ever since Nate called out RCP their having a hard time deciding between their obvious GOP crooked "Pick and choose" polling, and being a legitimate non-partisan website.
Thus far, they are failing miserably. I have 0 confidence in them and now use Pollster.com instead.
eric,
If I had money on it, my future nominees for the GOP would be
2012 Romney (all the young guns will run away from challenging Obama), though Crist is an interesting possibility.
2016 In a mirror of 2008 Dem Primaries, Jindal vs Palin, Jindal coming out in a close run thing.
Notice how few congressional Republicans there seem to be around who could stand?
(Of course NO ONE in 2000 would have picked Barack Obama as the Democratic challenger in 2008 so who knows?)
Let's give Chicago back to Wisconsin? Um, yeah, great idea. People are flocking from ALL over to visit Peoria, Springfield and Marion. Without Chicago, Illinois is the equivalent of Indiana. Sorry Hoosiers.
piexagato,
The media will do anything to make money and get viewers. Obama is killing McCain in the state polls so they will cherry pick anything to show "tightening". You will see 40 stories in the next 3 weeks on the Bradley effect, though defunct. Anything will be brought up to build the illusion of closeness. The closer the election gets the worse it will becomeon trying to build intrigue.
"Let's give Chicago back to Wisconsin? Um, yeah, great idea. People are flocking from ALL over to visit Peoria, Springfield and Marion. Without Chicago, Illinois is the equivalent of Indiana. Sorry Hoosiers."
I wonder if my (ex-) fellow southern Illinoisers realize how much tax money they lose if they lose Chicago.
CRIST is a real joke once you really get to know him
plus there is that whole 'metro-sexual' [OK, gay like Clay] thang
JINDAL is like PALIN - an ineperienced flavor of the month for the neo-cons
doubt he would hold up to close scrutiny by the national MSM - he would go down in flames like Sarah IMHO
the national GOPers have an extremely thin bench that is mostly dominated by fringe/base elements
and they have no enthusiasm at all for Mac - just look at that metric in every single poll release
the GOPers can still barely tolerate McCain which is why he will most likely be doomed to lose & probably ensure that he will lose by a landslide
"The bad news for the Dems today: Tim Mahoney probably pissed away his Florida House seat."
It is 63% Republican. It was going to require a landslide of Nixonian proportions to win that seat again.
Mahoney was dead anyway. 40 to 50 R seats may offset that loss for the Dems nationwide.
Now there is where the GOP needs to target $160 million instead of $160 million for McCain.
"The media will do anything to make money and get viewers. Obama is killing McCain in the state polls so they will cherry pick anything to show "tightening". You will see 40 stories in the next 3 weeks on the Bradley effect, though defunct. Anything will be brought up to build the illusion of closeness. The closer the election gets the worse it will becomeon trying to build intrigue."
I agree on the results but disagree on the motives. They are just trying to be "fair." They don't want to be seen as tilting too far to one side, even if reality is, because even when they are fair they get hammered from both sides.
If the Repubs continue to chase after people like Jindal and Palin as their nominee for Pres, they will have learned NOTHING from this election cycle. People are growing tired of the right wing idealogues. The only people they speak to are those on the far right.
Of course, I would relish such a move by the Repubs. It would mean a Dem in the WH through 2020.
Can you still call that "base" a "base" if its all you have left?
RCP have REALLY gone off the deep end.
Gerbie and DCM,
thanks for the help, but it didn't work till I switched from firefox to explorer. Guess I have to use explorer for this site.
Yvonne,
Yeah I did, was funny.
The other thing thats hard is going down SO publicly. I mean politics must be great when your winning, but it must feel awful when its all ebbing away from you. No place to hide, can't really just give up, have to keep ploughing on and saying that you can still win when there is sooo much evidence that you aren't going to.
A favourite of British Conservatives during there recent losing run is saying stuff like 'there is only one poll that really counts and thats on [insert date of general election]. McCain hasn't resorted to that one, but its code for 'we are going down big style.'
TREVOR
Mahoney had little chance of winning re-election in FL.
he only barely won against a write in candidate in Foley's district in 2006
that is a So FL GOP district, but then they do like their sex scandals so maybe this will 'help' him ???
I'm sure the McCain camp's subtle racism is playing well in SD. I wouldn't look many votes out of there.
For anyone tired of the rumors about Obama's ties to Ayers, ACORN, bin Laden: http://tinyurl.com/6jb7l6
It's funny and will put things in perspective.
Porridge.
Exhale dude...jesus.
RealClearPolitics is using an average of Gallup's two Likely Voters results in the RCP National Poll Average (Obama 52, McCain 43.5).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/october_13_2008_gallup_trackin_1.html
I agree with Peixegato.
I think the far right, ultra religious candidates are history. Every country have these people and to and from they get included in the ruling Goverment. This when they help the more right leaning parties to a majority without having to go to the center.
In no country I'm aware of are they "the base" of a major party. I know the religious right wants to believe they are "the base" here in US. But they never really where. They where simply used by the right wing politicians to win an election.
For republicans to win in this new more left leaning climate they will have to move to the center. I'm sure they will pick up on this fact in a hurry.
others,including Andrew Sullivan have now picked up on the message that I have been posting all day yesterday & today that Mac is losing FL & losing it big...
Crists jumping ship this weekend is now starting to get the national play it deserves - it confirms reports that FL will be BLUE in Nov...
'A Sign McCain is Losing Florida ?'
see it @ http://politicalwire.com/
markymark said...
"2016 In a mirror of 2008 Dem Primaries, Jindal vs Palin, Jindal coming out in a close run thing."
If Palin is politically relevant in 8 yeas, I will eat my hat.
McCain is going positive to save his political career. I think he knows he's going to lose and has decided to change his campaign's direction to end on a more dignified note.
The problem is that such a change is long overdue and won't be able to alter the trajectory of the election. Most people have already made up their minds, and they're not going to forgive and forget the divisive and incredibly negative campaigning.
A change in your campaign message this late in the election is a clear sign that you know your brand is losing.
I don't want to say it is in the bag for Obama, but personally I would be very surprised if the Democratic ticket didn't win. This isn't going to be a close contest, so political shenanigans, voter suppression, and election tampering won't work. It's one thing if the entire election came down to the wire in 1 state like Ohio in 2004 or Florida in 2000, but when there are a half dozen such states and a consistent lead by the Democratic nominee for the majority of the campaign season, there's no-believable way to steal the election or rig things at such a colossal level that would not invite scrutiny.
No, I think the GOP realizes they won't get this one. And now McCain wants to try to sew up the coat of honor he shredded in the past few weeks with his negative campaigning. So we have a message change.
peixagato
Thats very much what happened to the British Conservative Party in 1997. The lost big in the election that year and spent most of the next 8 years or so confused about appeasing the base or turning more moderate. They never really figured out how to attack Tony Blair, and failed to stake out any moderate ground. My own guess is a similar thing might happen to the GOP over the next couple of election cycles. In short it might look a little like the 1980s in America in reverse. And it may well be 2020 before the GOP take back the White House in the end.
...not trying to be a Jindal sycophant here, but...he is 10X the candidate that Palin is or ever will be. He is soft spoken, not evangelical, and moderate. His ethnicity was not a major issue in Red Louisiana and he also has support in the neighboring southern states. Look for someone like him to be the voice of the "new" south (or republicans) after the Dem trouncing in this cycle.
Hollis said...
"I'm sure the McCain camp's subtle racism is playing well in SD. I wouldn't look many votes out of there."
Why are you so sure about that, you ignorant jackass?
Ever been to South Dakota? I am guessing not, so why don't you keep your 2 cents out of it.
Obama = Next Generation Global Leader
I won't argue that McCain is a tired act, but I really wish some of you would let the Boy Wonder get elected and actually do something productive before anointing him with such hyperbolic titles.
If he gets bitch slapped by Putin and mocked by Hugo Chavez and lets the Middle East continue in disarray while doing nothing to improve our economy during his first term or so, will you still be proclaiming him a "Next Generation Global Leader"?
hurn0003 said...
If Palin is politically relevant in 8 yeas, I will eat my hat.
If Palin is politically relevant in 8 yeas, I will buy a hat and eat it
ignore Mule Head
he is trolling
DNFTT
By mid-2009, Palin - completely irrelevant.
And she'll never again make noise outside of the arctic circle.
Dakotans are more of the libertarian Republican than the social conservative. That's why Obama plays well there. They get that Obama isn't going to intrude into their lives. His focus is going to be on improving the standing of America. They are a pragmatic bunch.
Borderpeak said: "Maybe you could just say "ditto" for your other 3 "Prairie" states and move on to some states more interesting where somebody lives. Beautiful land though."
It's worth noting that SD has like 16.5% more people living in it than does Alaska. Of course, you can't see Russia from SD.
I think people underestimate Palin at there peril. She has a few very important things going for her- firstly she is a woman, and GOPers might want to be the first to nominate a woman. Secondly she is very ambitious. Thirdly, she is perfectly built for an Atwater/Rove type campaign and won't shrink from attacking anyone who gets in her way.
Thats not to say I would expect her to win a campaign in either 2012 or 2016, but I think there are legs in her yet.
The Bradley Effect Never Existed:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html
Bobby Jindal isn't telegenic. He's on the extreme right of the Republican party, and has Exorcist issues. Not to mention he also looks like a suicide bomber.
Bad combo.
DCM in FL,
You certainly don't have to indulge, and by no means should you feel compelled to give me an ounce of respect, but it's funny how quick you are to jump on the "troll" label when I make any kind of assertion at all that is diametrically opposed to what you believe, no matter how legitimate or illegitmate my claim is.
To say I'd like to wait and see if Obama actually can do a damn thing in his presidency before being called a "next generation global leader" is hardly "trolling."
Why don't you just ignore me?
Christopher said...
"Dakotans are more of the libertarian Republican than the social conservative. That's why Obama plays well there. They get that Obama isn't going to intrude into their lives. His focus is going to be on improving the standing of America. They are a pragmatic bunch."
Ehhh, I don't totally agree with that. We have more than our fair share of social conservatives. We also have too much America "love it or leave it" sentiment around here. But there are a lot of libertarian types, especially when it comes to gun control (we rely heavily on hunting to fuel our tourism industry).
But Obama isn't going to win SD or ND for the simple reason that he isn't trying to.
markymark said...
peixagato
Thats very much what happened to the British Conservative Party in 1997. The lost big in the election that year and spent most of the next 8 years or so confused about appeasing the base or turning more moderate.
Yes and similar to Blair replying to any form of attack by the GOP Obama can reply "it's you conservatives that put us in this mess in the first place, we're only cleaning up" for years to come.
Mule Rider said...
"To say I'd like to wait and see if Obama actually can do a damn thing in his presidency before being called a "next generation global leader" is hardly "trolling.""
This statement is hardly trolling. I would tend to agree. I think Obama has the chance to be that type of leader and he is w/out a doubt inspiring. But he still has a long way to go before he is FDR.
POLLSTER appears to have decided to stick with the Gallup RV #'s
under the strange circumstances this cycle, that makes some sense
factoring in 2 LV models is noisy, and the RV model has at least been consistent if volatile...
RCP tries a half-hearted compromise...
how will Nate & 538 decide to account for the various Gallup models & various reported results ?
hhhmmmm.... WWND ???
N = nate
Jindal is anything BUT moderate. Anyone who believes that a 6th grade girl who is raped/molested by her sick-o grandfather and gets pregnant MUST see the pregnancy to completion (i.e. must give birth) is NOT moderate.
He opposes abortion in ALL cases, regardless of the situation or circumstances.
New Thread!!!!!
On the Road!!!!
According to urbandictionary.com
Troll
1a. Noun
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
1b. Noun
A person who, on a message forum of some type, attacks and flames other members of the forum for any of a number of reasons such as rank, previous disagreements, sex, status, ect.
A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic, unlike a "Flamer" who flames a thread because he/she disagrees with the content of the thread.
1c. Noun
A member of an internet forum who continually harangues and harasses others. Someone with nothing worthwhile to add to a certain conversation, but rather continually threadjacks or changes the subject, as well as thinks every member of the forum is talking about them and only them. Trolls often go by multiple names to circumvent getting banned.
Not scientific, but based on the above definition, is my simple, rational question really in the category of "trolling"?
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