10.30.2008

Road to 270: Illinois

Today we continue our Road to 270 series with the Land of Lincoln, Illinois, which is apparently the state that Chicago is located in.



Once upon a time, Illinois was the swingiest state in all the land. Its electoral votes were critical in clinching an electoral victory for John F. Kennedy in 1960, and in each election from 1948 through 1988, it ran within 6 points of the national popular vote -- the only state in the country to do so.

Nowadays, however, save for the large footprint of the Obama campaign, Illinois -- and particularly Chicago -- is perhaps among the least interesting places to be a voter in the entire country. The Democrat wins comfortably in races for President and the state's two Senate seats, while the Republican brand is so damaged in Illinois that corrupt, scandal-prone Governor Rod Blagojevich -- who is now trying to fend off periodic attempts to recall him -- won re-election against a relatively compelling Republican opponent in Judy Baar Topinka by 10 points in 2006.

The story of Illinois' political transformation is the story of the bluing of the Chicago suburbs, which now account for slightly more than 50 percent of the state's population. In 1988, Lake County, the wealthy area to Chicago's north that is featured in all those John Hughes movies, went for George Bush by 27.7 points, making it 20 points more Republican than the country as a whole. But every year since, that number has been pared down some. In 1992, Lake County was 13 points more Republican than the rest of the country; in 1996, 8 points more Republican; in 2000, 3 points more Republican, and then finally in 2004, John Kerry outperformed his national margins there, although still lost the country by a hair (Barack Obama won't have the same problem).



If the suburban Chicago vote is split roughly evenly between the two parties, then two things are guaranteed to happen. One, it will be a hotbed for Congressional races, as it is again this year. But two, it allows the Chicago city vote to swamp the downstate, rural vote. The city proper has no more people than downstate -- actually, slightly fewer -- but when it goes for the Democrat by 50 or 60 points, and downstate goes for the Republican by 15 or 25 points, that gives the Democrat an insurmountable advantage.

Key Demographics



Note: Factors colored in red can generally be thought to help McCain. Factors in blue can generally be thought to help Obama. Factors in purple have ambiguous effects. Except where otherwise apparent, the numbers next to each variable represent the proportion out of each 100 residents in each state who fall into that category. Fundraising numbers reflect dollars raised in the 2008 campaign cycle per eligible voter in each state. Figures for seniors and youth voters are proportions of all residents aged 18+, rather than all residents of any age. The figure for education reflects the average number of years of completed schooling for all adults aged 25+. The figure for same-sex households reflects the number of same-sex partner households as a proportion of all households in the state. The liberal-conservative index is scaled from 0 (conservative) to 100 (liberal), based on a Likert score of voter self-identification in 2004 exit polls. The turnout rates reflect eligible voters only. Unemployment rates are current as of June 2008.

What McCain Has Going For Him

Very, very little, although he'll probably carry a dozen or perhaps a couple dozen downstate counties. When we ran Illinois through our similarity score matrix, one of the first states that came up was California. The comparison seems counterintuitive at first, but each state contains a similar mash-up of demographics, of city, suburb, sprawl, and farmlands, and the two states have voted with one another every year since 1964. Imagine California, throw in a home-field advantage for the Democrat, and you can understand how much McCain is going to get crushed.
Even if Obama were not from Illinois, the state would still not be a good fit for McCain's temperament, as we tend to prefer cool-headed pragmatism to hot-tempered idealism. The only thing that may hold Obama's margins back is that half of Chicago may be volunteering in Indiana or Wisconsin on Election Day.

What Obama Has Going For Him

Well, he's from here, and hasn't been around long enough to make enemies (although I'll be curious to see who Alice Palmer votes for). Illinois has among the largest black populations outside the South, and a rapidly-growing Hispanic population, although much of the latter is unregistered. It's also a relatively young state, as Chicago serves as a magnet for twentysomething professionals throughout the Midwest region.

What To Watch For

Jubilation if and when Obama wins the Presidency, culminating in a rally in Chicago's Grant Park that may draw one million souls. It's not a Cubs' World Championship, but most Illinoisans will take it; what kind of odds could you have gotten in 1908 that a black dude would get elected president before the Cubs won the Series again?

There will be a bit of action to watch after Election Day, when should Obama win, Governor Blagojevich will have to appoint his replacement in the Senate. Jesse Jackson Jr., who represents the Second Congressional District, is reportedly the odds-on favorite, but Blago faces something of a dilemma here: the Jackson name is a liability in a statewide race, and what might otherwise be a safe Democratic seat could become a battleground in 2010, certainly in the general election and possibly also in the primaries. In the long run, this seat probably belongs to Lisa Madigan if she wants it, although she and Blagojevich hate one another's guts, and she may have her designs on the Governor's Mansion instead.

223 comments

Rick said...

Eighth?

jellopuddin said...

Go to sleep Nate.

P.S. My word verification is "nestom." What the heck is that?

Lani said...

Nate,

I appreciate your hard work and dedication to keep us bloggers happy.

But plese get some rest. It was good to see you on Olbermann but you were sooo tired! You're working real hard.

wv = misiste

unertl said...

Hahahaha this is the quote of the day:

"what kind of odds could you have gotten in 1908 that a black dude would get elected president before the Cubs won the Series again?"

Kurt said...

Woo fifth!

How close are we to finishing all 50 states?

EPTABI!

Avery said...

What's next, Rhode Island?

Rick said...

Avery said...
"What's next, Rhode Island?"

If so, expect a rocky Rhode joke in it somewhere.

EmonOkari said...

We can sleep on November 5th.

nick said...

ahem, I'm from that "wealthy area to the north", and we are assuredly in Cook County. Lake county is where we go (south) to get cheaper smokes, and my high school's west campus was the site of The Breakfast Club, so don't tell me I'm wrong on this either by golly gee whiz.

TubeZone said...

Nate, you're a sadist, putting in a picture of a Chicago taqueria, while I'm sitting in the UK, where I can hardly get any decent Mexican food at all! I'd give my two front teeth for a hot gordita right now! (And when I get back I'll equally miss real ale, though!)

I'm guessing by the signs and background the photo probably is of Chicago Avenue, am I right?

Orale, guey! Viva Obama!

Palabra de verificacion: snaten

the.cog said...

11th!

Uma said...

Hi, Nate

Get some rest! We need you at 100% in the coming days.

BTW, 538 is undoubtedly the best elections site around. You are to be congratulated.

Next elections, you may want to add a regular feature that links to selcted articles, and also have some forum software that allows you some control over "spoilers." Threads that escape their sabotage are some of the best discussions around.

Eddie said...

If Blagojevich wants to keep Madigan from running for Governor, putting her in a safe Senate seat might be one of the easier methods.

Dan said...

I live literally three blocks down the street from Obama. I think on the south side he will put up a 60+ margin even among whites and hispanics.

Keep up the awesome work, Nate!

Vote said...

McCain needs 409,239 votes in seven states to win the election, whereas John Kerry needed 118,599 votes in Ohio:
http://voteforamerica.net/editorials/Comments.aspx?ArticleId=130&ArticleName=A+McCain+Victory+Requires...

Debunking the Bradley Effect, Again
http://voteforamerica.net/editorials/Comments.aspx?ArticleId=118&ArticleName=Debunking+the+Bradley+Effect%2c+Again

Obama 359, McCain 179
http://voteforamerica.net/electoral.aspx

Rick said...

Wanted to share this quote about Drudge.

"DEVELOPING" reads the Obama e-mail message announcing the "stunning admission" about McCain's health care plan. I hope this was a bit of wry irony from Obama campaign Press Secretary Bill Burton, parodying the stilted language of the Drudge Report. Drudge has become justly famous by giving us October surprises every month of the year—or every day, for that matter. He is the Town Crier who is always bawling. It's been a wildly successful strategy for Drudge, based on the theory that people never read more than the shocking headline and don't bother to question whether the headline is true. Lately, however, as the gruel has gotten thin, Drudge has had to hype ever-more-ridiculous nonstories and outlier polls to create drama. Soon he may start quoting polls from Mrs. Fleischman's first-grade class.

http://www.slate.com/id/2203238/

crawler said...

Nate, I hope your tip for the Rays on Colbert isn't an omen.

I don't think McCain has a change in PA, CO or FL and I'd like to see GA and MO go blue.

Is there a good statistical analysis of exit polls? I certainly believe something strange happened in Ohio in '04 when early exits polls were replaced by ones that reflected the result.

Rick said...

crawler said...
"Nate, I hope your tip for the Rays on Colbert isn't an omen.

I don't think McCain has a change in PA, CO or FL and I'd like to see GA and MO go blue.

Is there a good statistical analysis of exit polls? I certainly believe something strange happened in Ohio in '04 when early exits polls were replaced by ones that reflected the result."

This is hardly a statistical analysis, but my take on it is ignore the exit polls no matter what they say on election day. With so much early voting going on, they'll only give you a small part of the story. I'd hold off for the actual reported counts.

patricia said...

Thanks nate. Keep up the hard work. Now go back to bed.

Rick said...

The true nail in the McCain coffin.

http://www.slate.com/id/2203241/

Dominic said...

The bluing of the suburbs is a phenomenon that has been going on nationwide for many years. Back when Illinois was "swingy" places like California, New Jersey and Connecticut were decidedly red. These are all quintessentially suburban states. Now the same thing is happening to Colorado, Virginia and North Carolina, as they move further into this socio-economic category. Just look at the election maps on RCP going back to 1968 to see how state voting profiles have changed. The core blue states in 2004 were entirely different from those forty years earlier. Furthermore, if the 2004 map defines the core Democratic bloc as it stands today, hopefully the 2008 map will show McCain reduced to the core GOP bloc... amounting to no more than 200 or so EVs.

wv: alitzoc = the Aztec god of elections.

the fifth assmole said...

We don't want to know about your Doouchebag state, Nate. Just give us the numbers and shut up.

Rick said...

the fifth assmole said...
"We don't want to know about your Doouchebag state, Nate. Just give us the numbers and shut up."

I'm curious. By what mechanism are you being forced to read the commentary posted by Nate? The fact that he provides a dialogue about the states should be quite clear. Particularly as you are, by your very name, a fifth generation reader.

Bilbo Hussein Baggins said...

...just saw last night's Orlando rally vid on MSNBC. I thought Pres. Clinton was very enthusiastically supporting Obama. He looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself...no strained effort noticeable. This was a good forum for him to finally coalesce into the role of an elder statesman for the party.

Juris said...

TYPO? "John Kerry outperformed his national margins there, although still lost the country by a hair."

Should this read "county," not "country"?

Rick said...

Juris said...
"TYPO? "John Kerry outperformed his national margins there, although still lost the country by a hair."

Should this read "county," not "country"?"

Well, Kerry was very close nationally, so if he outperformed his national margins, then he wouldn't have lost the county, but he did lose the country election so I'm going to lean towards not a typo.

Elizabeth said...

U have inspired us in waterown Ma to have a pin the electoral vote on the map halloween party. Gonna use your ratio of ev's and blindfold people and spin and have them try to pin on correct state.. Mamalo in watertown.

Bilbo Hussein Baggins said...

Chicago proper and suburbs make up around 75% of Illinois' population. Downstate is defined as anything not in either of the above categories even though it may be technically north or west. Dems are helped in the downstate areas because a lot of the population centers are college towns (Shampoo/Banana, BloomingOnion/Abnormal), Government,(Springfield) or have a strong union presence (Peoria). It is only the rural areas with low populations that will mutiny and support McCaine.

The extreme southern part of Illinois south of Carbondale (Home of the Salukis) identifies somewhat with the Confederate south. It is probably not well known that the southern seven counties actually seceeded from the Union (from the State) initially during the Civil War. As part of a compromise to bring them back in, some isolated incidences of slavery were permitted to continue through the end of the war.

p smith said...

Today is pushback day.

Zogby: Obama 50 (49) McCain 43 (44)

A 2 point jump in Obama's lead caused by McCain's good Sunday figures rolling out of the tracker and a day yesterday when Obama utterly dominated the narrative with talk of his fireside advert and rally with Bill.

Both events will dominate the news again today, wiping two full days off the calendar, restoring Obama's lead of 6-8 points and leaving the GOP with just 4 days in which they continue to carp at each other and demonstrate their unfitness to lead the country.

Breathe the free air my friends. We are almost there.

stevie314159 said...

New Time/CNN polls:

PA O +12
NC O +6
NV O +7
OH O +4
AZ M +7

Oct 23-38

LAT said...

good morning y'all

well if we needed confirmation that the McCain camp does NOT know what they are doing: McCain is going to Maine. yes you herad that right. They still think that with 15 points down they can get that 1 ec vote. I am telling you they thing the "bradley affect" as the freepers call it is worth 15 points.
worse.campaign.ever!

remidef say I

SHERWICK said...

Does anyone know how many people were at the Obama/Clinton event yesterday?

PeteKent said...

Rachel Maddow had an interesting analysis of the Early Vote. It appears that most of it consists of regular "Presidential" voters and that there is little evidence of a new vote. She also pointed out that turnout overall is expected to be way up this year, muting any particular increase among the Young and Black.

Obama's leads in the polls are dwindling into the danger zone. His campaign is begging for "workers" to come to FL and other states to help. The professionals are seeing the thing slipping away.

Obama closes poorly. He maxes out at his last number in the polls and if he is not over 50% he loses.

McCain is dominating the narrative, continuing to hit Obama as a crypto-Socialist, while attacking the public's favorite bug-a-boo: The Media.

High information Jewish voters are taking note that Obama has something to hide concerning his PLO buddy. This will make the difference in FL and should help McCain in PA and OH.

On election night - - watch Maine and the Woods!

The tortoise and the hare, my friends, the tortoise and the hare!

SHERWICK said...

"PeteKent said...
McCain is dominating the narrative"

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAA HEEEEE HAA HAAAAAAAAA!

Rick said...

LAT said...
"good morning y'all

well if we needed confirmation that the McCain camp does NOT know what they are doing: McCain is going to Maine. yes you herad that right. They still think that with 15 points down they can get that 1 ec vote. I am telling you they thing the "bradley affect" as the freepers call it is worth 15 points.
worse.campaign.ever!"

Morning Lat. Worse even than that. Let's say they see something in the internals and are amazingly giftedly right. They turn Maine and get all 4 of its electoral votes. Yes, that's right, 4 fricken votes. As if that is somehow going to change the face of the race as it is. We can GIVE them main's votes. We are close to tipping GA and NC, so they should be playing some serious defense in those states. Florida is also one they can easily lose if they aren't careful though they have paid attention to it recently. Heck even his own Arizona is at risk of going Dem if they aren't careful. We've stolen VA which they need to win back and that still leaves them needing to flip PA as well.

It goes back to a comment I made a week or so back. For the last month or more they've been at the point where strategically, they needed to identify precisely the exact states which get them to 270 and they have a chance to win and effectively write off the rest of the nation. Anything less (and they are showing how much less they can go) will lose the election and risk a complete rout.

Rick said...

SHERWICK said...
"Does anyone know how many people were at the Obama/Clinton event yesterday?"

The closest I could get to confirming it was a report that there were 20 thousand as that was the max capacity of the hockey rink used.

PeteKent said...

Sherwick:

They call that the laugh of recognition!

Julie said...

Sherwick,
MSNBC said there were 35,000--estimated by the fire dept.

Rick said...

PeteKent said...
"Rachel Maddow had an interesting analysis of the Early Vote. It appears that most of it consists of regular "Presidential" voters and that there is little evidence of a new vote. She also pointed out that turnout overall is expected to be way up this year, muting any particular increase among the Young and Black."

Okay, look. You need to analyze your sources better. Maddow is a concern troll. That's her schtick. It's her brand. That's why she's got a segment of the show labled "Talk Me Down". Nothing against her personally, it's just what she does to stand out. So saying that she's concerned about something isn't exactly a breaking news story, sorry PeteKent.

drgymy said...

"won re-election against a relatively compelling Republican opponent in Judy Baar Topinka by 10 points in 2006."

This is the first mistake I've read here after all these months. She was horrible. I guess the key word is relatively. Relative to what? A corpse?

Keep up the good work though!

HonoreDB said...

Answering a question from the last thread, Obama did show up on the Daily Show. He was mostly dull and careful, but he looked really knock-on-wood happy.

His best moment was when Stewart asked him whether he was concerned about his own vote, given that he's half white and the Bradley effect. Obama mimed one hand trying to pull the lever for McCain while the other hand tried to stop it. He also joked that if white voters are supposed to break against the black candidate, they don't seem to have gotten the memo yet.

Derek said...

I think have a bit of concern is completely justified... Democrats typically lose and this a black democratic. America voted for Bush 2! 2! 2! times... Being a bit nervous is not unjustified and anybody that can volunteer... tack a friend to the polling place... etc. should absolutely do it because this election is not in the bag

LAT said...

Rick-- i made this point yesterday what modern wining campaign has ever relied on their 'internal' polling to say that ALL the polls are wrong and theirs are right and not only that, that their internals go against the demographics that play well with that candidate. Iowa? Maine? PA? huh?

My bet is that when this campaign is over Michael Duhaime of the Florida-only strategy for Giuliani will be seen to have wasted McCain's precious time in these crazy jaunts at the end stretch.

[I am beginning to think the WV is my oracle: serdedu!]

Real Joe said...



TIME/CNN POLLS

Pennsylvania: Obama 55, McCain 43
North Carolina: Obama 52, McCain 46
Nevada: Obama 52, McCain 45
Ohio: Obama 51, McCain 47
Arizona: McCain 53, Obama 46

McCain Surge !!!

Real Joe said...

good morning

Rick said...

LAT said...
"Rick-- i made this point yesterday what modern wining campaign has ever relied on their 'internal' polling to say that ALL the polls are wrong and theirs are right and not only that, that their internals go against the demographics that play well with that candidate. Iowa? Maine? PA? huh?

My bet is that when this campaign is over Michael Duhaime of the Florida-only strategy for Giuliani will be seen to have wasted McCain's precious time in these crazy jaunts at the end stretch."

I'll fully agree that any candidate that relied purely on internals that go wildly counter to the more prolific public polls would be stupid. We are apparently witnessing that. I was just stating that even if we gave them full credit for seeing something we don't in Maine, it's still a horrible tactic and a large part of a horribly losing overall strategy or perhaps lack of would be a better description.

Aunt Karen said...

Well, the Maine trip (depending on where he's going) may generate some news coverage in NH. And I think I read yesterday that he's back in NH before Tuesday, so maybe it's a combo trip.

That doesn't mean it makes sense, I'm just sayin.

Real Joe said...



OCTOBER SURPRISE ARRIVES !!!

ITS OVER FOR OBAMA !

Link

Rick said...

Real Joe said...

"TIME/CNN POLLS

Pennsylvania: Obama 55, McCain 43
North Carolina: Obama 52, McCain 46
Nevada: Obama 52, McCain 45
Ohio: Obama 51, McCain 47
Arizona: McCain 53, Obama 46

McCain Surge !!!"

Morning Real Joe. I see PA if anything has moved up. 55% if legit would be a very hard thing to overcome. And NC has joined the ranks of Nevada and Ohio in being outside of the margin of error in favor of Obama. The only possible McCain bright spot is improvement in his home state.

Julie said...

Sherwick...
another estimate of 35,000

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081030/pl_politico/25002

Rick said...

Real Joe said...


"OCTOBER SURPRISE ARRIVES !!!

ITS OVER FOR OBAMA !

Link"

Wait, I saw that movie. That alien was a complete terrorist! McCain is supported by terrorists!

Bilbo Hussein Baggins said...

Real Joe said...
good morning


Guten Tag!


With these morning numbers (National and State) it is apparent that the rout is on.


But we can't let up!


Q.) What is good in life?

A.) To crush you enemies,
see them driven before you
and hear the lamentations of their women!


*osilini* indicates that the U of I "Chief" is an Obama supporter

Derek said...

ROFL

Larry King and John McCain=The Bucket List

Rick said...

I love the fact that McCain can't stick to a single line of thought for any real length of time.

The following from last nights Larry King Live.

KING: You don't believe Barack Obama is a socialist, do you?

MCCAIN: No. But, I do believe -- I do believe that he's been in the far left of American politics. He has stated time after time that he believes in "spreading the wealth around." He's talked about courts that would redistribute the wealth.

So apparently the whole he's a socialist thing was all a complete lie. Not that this is actually news or anything.

Real Joe said...



Politico:

McCain camp trying to scapegoat Palin

Link

SHERWICK said...

PeteKent said...
Sherwick:

They call that the laugh of recognition!

HEEEE HEEEE HAHHAAAA BWAAAHAHAAA

STOP IT! I CAN'T BREATHE!!!!

Derek said...

OMFG... That is it... I'm done with Morning Joe... I've been loyal because they usually have decent analysis even if it has a republican lean, They are giving more time to the FUCKING LA TIMES stories as aposed to all the Obama stuff last night. I'm so fucking sick of this shit

LAT said...

Rick--oh I wasn't contradicting you i just meant---these people are so so bad. They are leaving totally unprotected states they need for pie in the sky dreams. NH is gone, so is Maine. I think they believe that NH will do for them what it did for Hillary but the comparison is a bit silly but that is just me.

The Bucket List--ha ha ha

Johnny Goodyear said...

I live here in lovely lovely Maine and we're not giving our four votes to McFail that easily. Having said that we're happy to take one for the team if we can keep him stupidly busy when he should probably be elsewhere.

If you have a doubt between now and then: Make calls, drive folks to the polls, talk to your neighbors. Remember, you are the ground game. GOTV!

Aussie said...

"PeteKent said...
McCain is dominating the narrative"

Oh, sorry I hadn't noticed. I was too busy watching a HALF HOUR INFOMERCIAL.

Word: munma: Who PeteKent will go crying to after the election.

mnk4ever224 said...

Hi, I just wanted to know if anyone knows about a poll of PA coming out later today that shows Obama's lead within the margin of error?

Michael said...

BREAKING

NBC-PENNSYLVANIA
MASON DIXON

OBAMA: 48
MCCAIN: 44

SURGE!!

Rick said...

LAT said...
"Rick--oh I wasn't contradicting you i just meant---these people are so so bad. They are leaving totally unprotected states they need for pie in the sky dreams. NH is gone, so is Maine. I think they believe that NH will do for them what it did for Hillary but the comparison is a bit silly but that is just me.

The Bucket List--ha ha ha"

Couldn't agree more. And it's even dumber than that, but first a supporting quote from Larry King's interview.

"KING: OK. You're hot and heavy in these red states. You're -- the final week, you're in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico, I think all of those states went for George Bush four years ago. What's -- why would these be the states?

MCCAIN: Well, they are -- we're within margin of error. Look, this is a tough campaign, as you know, we've come from a long way back, and we're now very close. But those are contested states, and I think we can win in New Hampshire. I have such a long relationship there that -- and that was a -- previously a state that didn't -- that President Bush didn't get."

Okay, first is that he thinks he has some sort of "special connection" with NH that simply isn't reflected in any polls. Second, he thinks he's within the margin of error in all of those states when he isn't even close. Even Ohio has pulled out beyond MOE and you guys were cussing us for being stupid not too long ago I might add.

Lastly, your point about comparing the primaries to the general election and this is done way too often by too many pundits. Let's be quite clear, how the primaries played out means very little at all when simply looked at purely in that context. Imagine a state which is republican controlled, for instance Texas. I'm too lazy to look at how it actually broke down, but let's say for the sake of argument Obama had won every single last democrat in the primary and Hillary didn't get a single vote. Does that mean somehow the state is destined to turn blue? Hell no. So to think that just because a blue state such as NH prefered Hillary to Obama means that it'd swing all the way to the right to accomidate McCain/Palin is simply beyond moronic.

p smith said...

Tpday's CNN state polls are toxic for McCain. Their supposed blue state target of Pennsylvania remains out of reach and Obama has a double digit lead which just is not tightening.

McCain's only hope now is to hold the Bush states minus Iowa and New Mexico but according to CNN, AP and Quinnipiac, he is behind in Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Colorado, Missouri, North Carolina and Nevada and holding on by his fingernails in Indiana. These aren't just averages either, McCain does not now lead in any poll of Virginia, Colorado, Nevada or Ohio.

On November 5th I think we are going to realise that the supposed close race was a media fiction designed to keep their viewing numbers high. Remember that in 2000 and 2004, blue states such as PA, MI, WI and MN were all in play going into election night. Those 4 races are over already this year.

I am looking forward to the Research 2000 and Rasmussen trackers today.

drumice said...

LOL @ Morning Joe desperately trying to convince people that the bradley effect will push john mccain to victory.

Matt said...

MPR/Humphrey poll - Minnesota...

O: 56
M: 37

Minnesota

No numbers on the Senate race.

Matt said...

Field Poll - California...

O: 55
M: 33

California

Ho hum.

Rick said...

Johnny Goodyear said...
"I live here in lovely lovely Maine and we're not giving our four votes to McFail that easily. Having said that we're happy to take one for the team if we can keep him stupidly busy when he should probably be elsewhere."

We salute you for your bravery in the face of stupid. We in Ohio are also doing our part to suck up his time and money though we are not nearly as out of reach as yourselves.

drumice said...

Michael...Morning Joe has been teasing us about those PA polls. If it indeed is a 4pt margin according to the NBC poll, we can expect fox and drudge to play that up until the election.

"reerha"

Buckeye said...

What is this poll in Pennsylvania that Joe Scarbrough claims is in the margin of error? I don't like Joe. One minutes he says the race is over the next minute he is saying McCain can pull it off.

Aunt Karen said...

I am firmly convinced that NH is going Obama, but it's wrong to think that McCain does not have a special relationship there. However, it's a primary time relationship.

In NH, during the primary season, a lot of the politics is retail. There aren't a lot of rallies, but rather, there are social events in people's homes, where the voters and the candidates can get to know each other.

That's just not how things are done once the primaries are over, though, and the negatives of his campaign have turned (as far as I can tell) a lot of people away. Plus, again, this is a report from my sister, whose family lives Seacoast NH, Obama has an outstanding ground game there.

WV = acher. I'm supposed to go to physical therapy later today, and had been contemplating cancelling. Maybe I should reconsider.

LAT said...

LMAO--MD has been the ONLY polling firm that has had McCain close (last time is was 2 points) so 15 other pollsters say the race is high or low single digits and MD says it is 4. Outlier. I love the way the trolls come her and cherry pick instead of averaging all the polls to see where it really is. Keep dreaming!

markymark said...

buckeye,

I have always thought that on his show, Scarborough will say whatever he has to to not get punched by his guest. He is a bit of a suck up as a host really for someone who comes across as an attack dog.

Buckeye said...

BREAKING

NBC-PENNSYLVANIA
MASON DIXON

OBAMA: 48
MCCAIN: 44
------------------
THis is the poll? Mason always trying to have Obama down. Give me more proof of other polls saying the same thing then maybe I will worry. Joe Scarbrough sems to think McCain will eaisly prevail in Florida and has Missouri.

Rick said...

Aunt Karen said...
"I am firmly convinced that NH is going Obama, but it's wrong to think that McCain does not have a special relationship there. However, it's a primary time relationship.

In NH, during the primary season, a lot of the politics is retail. There aren't a lot of rallies, but rather, there are social events in people's homes, where the voters and the candidates can get to know each other.

That's just not how things are done once the primaries are over, though, and the negatives of his campaign have turned (as far as I can tell) a lot of people away. Plus, again, this is a report from my sister, whose family lives Seacoast NH, Obama has an outstanding ground game there."

I'm not trying to discount his primary experience there per se. However, to suggest that that experience where he was really only dealing with republicans and not trying to woo democrats or independants is enough to tip a state that is polling in double digits his way should be viewed as a sign of senility.

SHERWICK said...

Mason Dixon moved PA from +2 Obama to +4 Obama.
Hu hum.

drumice said...

Yeah Buckeye I know what you're saying. I don't know why I keep watching Morning Joe..the guy is a supreme dick who loves talking over anyone who disagrees with him, but they keep sucking me in.

vowrable

markymark said...

Just watching to Obama informercial now, about half way through and it is stunning. Can't uinderstand how any undecideds who were watching could still vote for McCain.

I think it says a lot about McCain's campaign that he hasn't done what Obama did. He hasn't said how he is going to improve America. Obama has run a transparent campaign, and all McCain has tried to do is to muddy that, he has never laid out a vision for America.

LAT said...

sorry it should read low double digits. Also MD has not polled PA in almost a month and a half when there other local pollster (Franklin and Marshall for example) are on the field all the time and have it so different. Too funny.

Aunt Karen said...

Palin's vision of herself in the future, should they lose on Tuesday:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/29/AR2008102904270.html?nav=hcmodule

Real Joe said...

LOL

why do you people(Obama supporters) watch Joe ??

dvdmgsr said...

If Obama's true lead in PA is in the high single digits, and there are roughly five polls a day in the state, you can bet your sweet bippy that there will be a few that put him within the MOE.

A lead of 8-10 percentage points with five days ago is pretty good.

SHERWICK said...

real joe, i thought morning joe was you!

PA John said...

And still.... John McCain has never led a poll in Pennsylvania.

markymark said...

real joe,

Sometimes its nice to see a range of opinions and not just button yourself into to one mindset.

drumice said...

Real Joe...

It's all about Mika lol. I hope she gets the nerve to put Joe in his place on of these days.

Hollie said...

That sign looks so familiar. Is that on Division?

...turns out, we're neighbors.

SHERWICK said...

oh dear me. McGranpa and Failin seems to be surging backwarks in gallup and zogby.

SHERWICK said...

"PA John said...
And still.... John McCain has never led a poll in Pennsylvania."

PA John, when was the last time mcgranpa led a National poll, never mind a PA poll?

Darío said...

Indy-Star/Seltzer Indiana:

O + 0.6


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081029/NEWS0502/81029061

Darío said...

PA John is nervous.
McCain surge in PA!!!!!

PA John said...

"PA John is nervous.
McCain surge in PA!!!!!"


Ummmmm..... No.

Darío said...

"PA John, when was the last time mcgranpa led a National poll".


In september.

Bilbo Hussein Baggins said...

Darío said...
Indy-Star/Seltzer Indiana:

O + 0.6


Indiana has had early voting going on for two weeks now. Has anybody seen any statistics on how this is playing out?

musicman said...

I live 3 blocks away from that taco joint - one of the best in the city.

Any couples going as Sarah and Joe the Plumber tomorrow?

Sam said...

It's interesting that you mention California as a similar state, because in your similarity grid, Illinois is listed as most similar to Minnesota, which certainly is considerably bluer in recent history. The relation is not symmetric (nor does it need to be). California is somewhat different (according to your scores), so it seems that something is missing if they have voted the same way a lot, but that isn't reflected in Illinois' list.

SHERWICK said...

As of yesterday, 366,143 people have voted in Indiana. In 2004 only 250k voted early in total, so already over 40% higher. http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html

Real Joe said...

early voting numbers


http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html

jjcantar said...

Nate! Ok, now you're really killing me. I moved from Chicago in 2005 and have been missing Mexican food ever since.....and El Taco Veloz is my *favorite* taqueria. That's where I first fell in love al pastor tacos. Fk. I totally miss the place and when I opened up your website and saw the picture I thought it was some sort of cosmic joke....but a good one, I guess. Anyhow, I don't worry about you getting enough sleep, as long as you'r fueling your late nights with taco delights at the Veloz. I'll be back in Chicago for the election and it's number 2 on my list of places to go (behind Nuevo Leon in Pilsen, my fave resto). Anyhoo..... keep up the good work; your blog keep me sane.

drumice said...

Taco Burrito Palace is the best Mexican in chicago. hands down

Laura said...

"and particularly Chicago -- is perhaps among the least interesting places to be a voter in the entire country."

Amen to that. Sometimes I feel left out because I could vote for Donald Duck and the democrat would still win the state. But at the same time, I'm glad I'm not being bombarded with a million campaign ads either.

Bilbo Hussein Baggins said...

sherwick, real joe...thanks.

I guess they don't have party ID in Indiana?

Still, the increased vote has to be a coming from the Obama registration and GOTV drive.

Daver said...

Yet another post about missing taco veloz and Chicago - but I do.

Jerry056 said...

DailyKOS R2K 10/30

O 50
M 45

M +1 from yesterday

I'm hoping tomorrow's numbers are better after the infomercial last night.

Liam Hedge said...

My god did Petekent distort that Rachel Maddows piece. She interviewed Professor McDonald. NOTHING that was said in that piece said that the voters were "old" voters. In fact Prof. McDonald I believe said that African American turnout was "off the charts" and they traditionally DON'T vote early. This means people are breaking their habits because of how passionate they are about their candidate.


Given that in 2004 Bush captured 60% of the early vote, this interview should be worrying for McCain. The only "negatives" that were cited had no historical precedence and weren't compared to previous year's early voting.

The good news. In NC we can currently see a partisan gap of approximately 24% compared to 11% in 2004 in favour of the democrats. This is without any huge turnout by African Americans. At least not at the mindblowing levels of Georgia and Louisiana.

All in all, you have to spin pretty fast and hard to pretend the early voter numbers are bad. You'd basically have to read straight off a republican talking point memo. Oh wait. That's what Rachel did for most of the interview.

slicknickshady said...

That Mason-Dixon poll has to be an outlier because every other poll says otherwise.

SHERWICK said...

If I were you, I'd keep a close eye on Tennessee. Over 50% of TN has voted early, compared to 2004 total voters. This is second only to CO, where 52% have voted early...

Liam Hedge said...

Also, it is interesting that the McCain campaign manager should cite Nevada. Currently the data in Real Joe's link above puts the average partisan gap at about +20% Dems. Looking food.

"aligg" - a new word describing McCain's campaign. Slow and sluggish with no real momentum.

LAT said...

Actually the Dkos tracker shows no movement. Nate uses the daily numbers which is still 5 as it was yesterday.

gtuckerkellogg said...

Nate,

Do you adjust your projections for states that have early voting? As I understand the method, your regression model is projecting to a vote on election day, but for those states where for a significant number of voters election day has already passed, projecting forward for all of the voters' positions on Nov 4 doesn't seem reasonable.

Is it worth incorporating a proportional estimate of early vote for those states applicable?

akoolromeo said...

I think McCain will win Missouri. The margin there is too close for Obama, and since Missouri seems to vote Republican, I feel that in a close race, States will revert to their tendencies. That is why I fea Florida, Ohio and North Carolina will revert to their traditional role of voting Republican. Regardless of the polls, I am going to be nervous until November 5th, when the offical polls results are through coming in. I wouldn't get ahead of ourselves thinking this is over. Maybe it's the natural tightening, but when you flip through themorning shows and all you see are headlines of the race tightening, it makes me concerned, because I don't trust a Democratic candidate in a close election. We saw what happened in the last 2 close elections. All this news about the new and young voters not coming out yet is also diconcerting. Hopefully, they are just procastinating, but why would one wait until the last day and deal with lines, when one can find a convenient time and vote early without the hassle?

justsomeguy said...

From Politico:

"

If John McCain’s supporters are hoping for a “Bradley effect” bounce on Election Day, some pollsters and strategists say they may have another thing coming.

Call it the “bandwagon effect.”

While the Bradley effect posits that some white voters who tell pollsters that they will vote for a black candidate often have second thoughts in the voting booth, the “bandwagon effect” suggests that a small but significant number of persuadable voters will decide at the last minute to go with the winner."

NATE - can you look at this?

dwbh said...

Here's a good analysis by Charles Franklin - the only empirically based study on undecided voters I could find - that refutes the CW that the majority of undecideds will break for McCain. Franklin concludes it will actually be 50/50. Worth the read.

zzyzx said...

No Drudge Rasmussen leak? That's promising for this morning.

dwbh said...

Oh, and the Mason-Dixon poll showing Obama +4 in PA is the first poll to have it this close in PA since September 17, six weeks ago. That poll, which had Obama +2, was also a Mason-Dixon poll, so Obama actually gains 2 points for tracking purposes.

p smith said...

We can also be sure that Rasmussen is no worse than yesterday otherwise Scott Rasmussen will have leaked it to Drudge.

Presumably we are due a set of non tracker national polls this evening. CBS/NYT, Fox, NBC/WSJ at the least and possibly CNN.

anbruch said...

Blogger Real Joe said...



Politico:

McCain camp trying to scapegoat Palin


Because McCain is an honorable man.

Darío said...

akoolromeo, the states polls are not tightening.

dwbh said...

@akoolromeo: like dario said, the state polls are not tightening, and there is no real reason to worry. Still, I share your anxiety. I probably won't stop worrying until McCain calls Obama to concede.

markymark said...

I am in a confident mood this morning as far as the election is concerned. Genuinely I believe the election is if not in the bag, then seriously favouring Obama.

Yesterday there was one poll that counts showing serious closing. One poll from a company that we know has a conservative balance, and is only using a likely voter model bassed on the 2004 turnout. Does anyone seriously think the 2008 electorate is going to look like 2004? People have invested time, money, effort in getting Obama elected, what makes anyone think that those people are about to give up when it comes to the most important bit of the process?

Matt said...

Morning Call/Muhlenberg tracking poll (PA)...

O: 54
M: 41

The M-D poll is an anomalous result.

anbruch said...

Blogger Jerry056 said...

DailyKOS R2K 10/30

O 50
M 45

M +1 from yesterday

I'm hoping tomorrow's numbers are better after the infomercial last night.


Once again, the gain comes from added support to McCain rather than loss of support from Obama.

Word verification: punduche—a jurisdiction where you must play word games?

Derek said...

Not sure if this has been posted yet but Mason Dixon has PA O 47- M 43... tight race you guys.

Word=balet

jnorthrop said...

"Word verification: punduche—a jurisdiction where you must play word games?"

I think I would have gone with -- Bill O'Reilly. As in "He is such a punduche (pronouncing the ch as sh).

.. but I've got nothing for plyzi

PA John said...

Morning Call/Muhlenberg tracking poll (PA)...

O: 54
M: 41


54 = Obama's highest support in this poll. Even counting the M-D poll, it looks like McCain has a ceiling of about 44-45 in PA.

slicknickshady said...

some much for mccain closing he gap in PA. Also Mason Dixon always has a really small sample size. I mean it only has a 625 sample size.

MysticLaker said...

Breaking!!!!!!

I found the mason-dixon pollster from PA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTkqosRiyYo

Matt said...

@MysticLaker - That is one of my favorite clips of the campaign. Faux is our own domestic version of the Iraqi Information Minister.

anbruch said...

Blogger jnorthrop said...

"Word verification: punduche—a jurisdiction where you must play word games?"

I think I would have gone with -- Bill O'Reilly. As in "He is such a punduche (pronouncing the ch as sh).

.. but I've got nothing for plyzi


Yours is definitely the better read!

word verification: counbut—What George Will looks like he has.

PA John said...

Not sure if this has been posted yet but Mason Dixon has PA O 47- M 43... tight race you guys.

Sorry, but based on all other evidence, the M-D poll screams "outlier". And even if it isn't if McCain can't break 46 in a single PA poll, well I think you know...

markymark said...

HA ha thats ridiculous mysticlaker. Although I did enjoy the old woman in the background pulling her husbands (?) arm down when the pollster asks who is voter for McCain. (Maybe slightly points to an underlying worry for Obama, a very henpecked husband or a very dumb husband?)

Liam Hedge said...

Morning Americans,

I'm going to hand out these numbers I'd just crunched based on early voting. I hope I haven't made any serious errors in my calculations.

Now, a lot of people seem to be discussing this idea of basing number crunching on 2004, which as mark says is a little absurd. None the less I'm going to make some punts on where NC stands with the ballots cast thus far using some of these number.

I looked at the exit polling from 2004 which you can find on this site to see how partisans generally vote in NC. This is far from ideal but I couldn't find crosstabs on any polling out of NC so they had to do.

Basically, as the partisan divide stands in NC, even if as in 2004 16% of Dems were voting for McCain then the race currently sits +6.8% Obama. Also, 52%! of 2004's total number of ballots cast have already been cast. If the turnout were the same as 2004 then there would have to be a significant shift in election day partisan turnout to turn this around. Whereas exit polling showed it basically dead even on 39/40/20 D/R/I in 2004 if this were the case this year, and partisan voting were the same, Obama is going to take NC. By at least a couple of points.

No need to tell me of the many methodological problems here. For one thing, early voters are more likely to be partisan and as such the election day exit polling isn't going to reflect their voting habits. This goes in Obama's favour. On McCain's side, all the Obama voters may have already voted and as they can't vote again the partisan divide on election day may be much more in GOP's favour. None the less, interesting numbers. Massive turnout. Looking good IMHO

Gwen said...

I would have to agree with what David Gergen said on Anderson Cooper's show last night: "John McCain has convinced himself that he can win because that's the only way he's going to get through the next few days." I really think he's running out of time.

Liam said...

*not liam hedge from previous post*

I've had a nagging question about the simulations that has been driving me nuts. I hope someone can explain it for me - what exactly changes during these 10,000 simulations? Are a few variables (voter turnout, weather, I don't know) randomized? If so, it seems like since Nate's building the model he wouldn't have to actually run the simulations.

Or are individual factors manually tweaked bit by bit over 10,000 gradations? If so, it seems like some of those scenarios would be less likely than others and shouldn't count as much as the rest.

Directly related question: What happened in the simulation where John McCain wins the EC by a landslide?

Thanks for your help in advance! [Talisho!] [wv]

Real Joe said...



Craig Newmark (founder of Craigslist) supports Obama

Link

SHERWICK said...

liam, where do you get 52% early voting in NC compared to 2004?

http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html has it at 45%...

cora said...

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_102908/content/01125108.guest.html


rush associating Obama to "socialist" Presidents FDR and LBJ. Hope they make this October Surprise. Or November, who cares.

PeteKent said...

A Nation of Whiners

"They are giving more time to the FUCKING LA TIMES stories as aposed to all the Obama stuff last night. I'm so fucking sick of this shit"

--Derek at 605AM

How do you think I felt when they spent days talking about Palin’s wardrobe?

The Khalid story and the media cover up is a much bigger story than Obama's pale imitation of Sally Field last night.

As the Beatles said, "Money Can't Buy You Love!"

In the last week of the campaign McCain has managed to install sufficient doubt in the electorate regarding Obama and taxes/economy/Socialism and his associations. The LA Times story is fueling the doubts concerning who Obama really is. It's why you are gonna lose suckas!

markymark said...

liam hedge,

Completely agree, without being into number crunching. MSNBC were quoting Bush winning early voting 60-40 in 2004. Now I tend not to think that means anything in 2008, and worry about the idea that Republicans do early voting and Dems vote on the day. I think we MIGHT be rewriting some of these rules over the next few days and weeks. I tend to think the most enthusiastic voters vote early, which would be Obama's this time around. BUT also I think Obama has a very deep reservoir of enthusiastic voters, whereas McCain has a far shallower pool.

An interesting thing to watch on Sunday is the message coming out of the evangelical churches. Will that be enough to jazz up the GOP vote for election day? Are the white evangelicals going to get enthusiastically and aggresively behind McCain? Thats a small worry I still have. But I don't see it as a big worry, as I think there might be an avalanche of new voters coming out in the end for Obama on the day. I think in the end the election might get to being at the top end of Obama's level of polling- 8-10 points victory, maybe even a few more.

twopennykid said...

Long time Chicagoan here--currently in Logan Square--and El Taco Veloz is one of my favorite Mexican food joints in the whole city!

As for voting here, sure it's uninteresting. But it will certainly be easy to get to the rally from my Loop office!

Irresistable tacos are GOOD NEWS...for JOHN McCAIN!!!

v-word: unenico (spanish?)

Zechaplunga said...

There surely has to be some bounce from the infomercial, speech with Bill and Daily Show tonight (even though he was a bit crap on the Daily Show). The bounce may not show up but it should hopefully neutralise the tightening today at least.

REMALC - to do something malco-ordinated, again. I did actually remalc today. It involved hot tea, an escalator and a mobile phone.

PA John said...

Weather updates for Tuesday:

PA/OH/MO/IN: Mostly Sunny and low 60's

VA/NC: Mostly Sunny mid-high 60's

FL: Mostly Sunny high 70's-low 80's

EmonOkari said...

The closest I could get to confirming it was a report that there were 20 thousand as that was the max capacity of the hockey rink used.

We were standing outside in a field, with grass below our feet. Local news reported 30,000-35,000.

cora said...

pending 1 final adjustment on Mon

RASMUSSEN (almost) CALLS IT

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_larry_j_sabato/the_last_word_almost

danielle9183 said...

ha! you were right down the street from me. i love this site and have been obsessively looking reading it every day. i hope your projections prove correct, or else the rally i'm going to in grant park won't be as jolly as i'd hoped it would be.

rays251 said...

"I think us at fivethirtyeight.com should start a terrorist group to get rid of Fox News..."


Why is this perfectly allowable, but when someone comes on here wanting to kill obama, everyone gets into a panic?


Double standard?


Same with the tape. You all want to say there is nothing controversial? Then, why not release the tape and show everyone?


You act as if people see Obama eating a steak, will cost him votes in the election!!!

Derek said...

Petekent...

1.Obama didn't talk about the Palin wardrobe

2. The story was just about how disfunctional/fraudulent the McCain campaign has been. Images not living up to reality etc.

3. Winning an election by distorting your openent and scaring up votes is not an honorable way to win

4. 3+McCain said he would run an honorable campaign.

5. If you can't win on the issues you don't deserve to win and McCain refuses to talk about issues in a truthful way/refuses to talk about the distruction of the middle class, gay rights, immigration, etc. He only cares about God, Guns, Tax and Spend

Word=poleake John McCain will have a poleake on Nov 4th

PeteKent said...

The Bandwagon?

"Call it the “bandwagon effect.”

I read that most analysts believe it is not applicable to American elections, but applies more in European Parliamentary ones where the campaign season is much shorter.

As we saw in the late primaries overwhelming numbers of people refused to jump on the Obama bandwagon and give him a mandate.

Same will hold true on Election Day. The low information voter sees the election of Obama as assured; many will want to cast a protest vote against him, given his socialist agenda and their perception of a pro-Black bias (of which there is little evidence, quite contrary!)

Mark me: people will come out of the Woods to vote against Obama.

rays251 said...

"PA John, when was the last time mcgranpa led a National poll, never mind a PA poll?"


Only like 6 weeks ago.

Stop exaggerating.


I wish I could have been here when McCain was leading.

Lee said...

PLEASE stop spreading the misconception that Illinois was critical in giving John Kennedy his victory. The popular vote between Kennedy and Nixon was close but Kennedy won the electoral college by more than 50, so he won the election without Illinois. According to Doris Kearns Goodwin, although it is true that the Chicago Democrats stuffed the ballot box for JFK, there is evidence that the downstate Republicans stuffed the box for Nixon and in such numbers that the cheating was a wash. The historians appearing on the PBS News Hour when she said that several years ago also agreed that Nixon and the Republican party started the rumor immediately after the election that Kennedy stole the election with Daley's help. It has been repeated so many times that the American public, event the highly educated part, believes it. Look up the electoral college for that election.

cora said...

364 174

Derek said...

rays251, I was chided over that comment

Number two it was a total joke... Fox is not a person it is a company and defeating it would be getting people to stop doing myspace/wallstreet journal and watching fox news etc. There is a big difference

Also I was mocking McCain supporters

Derek said...

rays251, I was chided over that comment

Number two it was a total joke... Fox is not a person it is a company and defeating it would be getting people to stop doing myspace/wallstreet journal and watching fox news etc. There is a big difference

Also I was mocking McCain supporters

Quadrivium said...

Illinois wasn't as crucial in 1960 as GOP revisionists would have us believe. Kennedy won that election by 84 electoral votes, so Illinois's 27 EV weren't enough to make the difference.

rays251 said...

"Michael...Morning Joe has been teasing us about those PA polls. If it indeed is a 4pt margin according to the NBC poll, we can expect fox and drudge to play that up until the election."


Is this actually confirmed?

MysticLaker said...

Ant...Oh Ant...?

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen is late

EmonOkari said...

M-D's PA poll is just the next version of that old MN poll that the right drooled over. That came...that fizzled...that was forgotten.

Derek said...

Rays251 I was watching Joe and Andria Mitchell released the poll and a graphic was displayed

SHERWICK said...

Rasmussen Reports calls the election 364 Obama 174 McGranpa !!!

(wv = 'comile' as in "the McGranpa campaign will be in a comatose or comile state when they see those numbers lol)

Aunt Karen said...

About this tape, first off, it's funny that McCain is hammering the paper about this, since he has supported shield laws.

Secondly, let's keep in mind that John McCain chairs a group that gave a group founded by this 'radical' $800,000.

This is just another stupid distraction. Don't tell me any more how dangerous Obama is. Tell me what, exactly, is a good reason to vote FOR McCain.

SHERWICK said...

Mason Dixie poll shows Obama support increased 100% since their last poll!!!

Derek said...

Just showed the PA pole again with 9 percent undecided voters

kittles93 said...

Is there any confirmation of the PA Mason-Dixon poll?

Sounds like an outlier anyway, but the fellow who first posted may be a troll.

cora said...

Antmatic said...
Rasmussen is late

??????

it's been released today and it should be based also on today's tracker

Derek said...

sherwick... what do you mean up 100 percent?

Derek said...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7664744

THat is the Mason Dixon Poll

cane said...

"Rasmussen is late"

Pregnant? Drudge's the father?

Balls Explode!!!!!!!

SHERWICK said...

M-D last poll of PA had Obama up 2% and now they have him up 4%.

PA John said...

Derek said...
sherwick... what do you mean up 100 percent?


Derek it's one poll out of about 12 (not an exageration) that show things much different in PA. What they ALL show is that McCain's ceiling in PA is *46*, and that's being generous.

markymark said...

petekent said
Mark me: people will come out of the Woods to vote against Obama.
-------------------

Is this why states with forests are the key? Does make me think that McCain is relying on the hobbit vote mind.

I think that actually, its not the bandwagon effect so much as the 'Being a part of history' effect that might be important. People want to be a part of something in this day and age, and that is why electing Obama appeals to a lot of people. There was an article in the British press a couple of days ago (sorry forgot where!) that basically said this was similar to the 1997 British election where people wanted to vote the Tories out as opposed to voting the Labour in. I actually disagree with the premise here, but I also disagree that that is what America is doing right now. Look at the crowds Obama is drawing. People want something different. They are prepared to give Obama a little benefit of the doubt, and I really believe that the USA is prepared, for once in its life to give a candidate a chance. It might turn out closer than I imagine, but I think that Obama can win by a 10 point margin.

Derek said...

Or if you prefer Daily Kos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/30/64124/008

PeteKent said...

PA Poll is good news . . . FOR JOHN MCCAIN!!!

Obama is below 50% and McCain is within MOE. A recipe for disaster for Obama as we head to the finish line. McCain has been picking up speed since the clubhouse turn; he looks like he is on his horse and is gonna pull this off.

Supertracker taking a nose dive. Vectors appear very bad for Obama.

Unless he is plus 7 in the battlegrounds he is likely to lose.

rays251 said...

"Oh, and the Mason-Dixon poll showing Obama +4 in PA is the first poll to have it this close in PA since September 17, six weeks ago. That poll, which had Obama +2, was also a Mason-Dixon poll, so Obama actually gains 2 points for tracking purposes."


I don't know if that is a valid argument though because wouldn't that mean that the poll was leaning democratic on September 17, so if anything, wouldn't McCain be almost tied now, if you adjusted for the lean?

Also, how many people do they poll?

SHERWICK said...

Rassmussen gives up and throws in the towel. Give 364 EVs to Obama.

kittles93 said...

I believe M-D has a +3 Republican lean, correct?

If so, this ties with Rasmussen's seven point poll.

I believe Obama will win PA by roughly eight.

I work in PA, by the way.

Derek said...

actually MD has a 2 point republican lean I think

cora said...

how many people live "in the woods" ?


petekent ?

anbruch said...

New thread.

word verification: sectori.

Real Joe said...

sherwick said...
Rassmussen gives up and throws in the towel. Give 364 EVs to Obama.



*** Rasmussen's Balls Explode ***

PA John said...

Muhlenberg/Morning Call Pa Daily Tracker:

Obama - 54
McCain- 41

This is a 5-day tracking poll with about 1000 LV.

takestock said...

The M-D PA poll may increase the chance of a Obama landslide. McCain cannot win PA but now he might be persuaded to double-down on PA instead of spending money and time on other battlegrounds. Oh well, it gives the news channels something to talk about for a day or two.

rays251 said...

"rays251, I was chided over that comment

Number two it was a total joke... Fox is not a person it is a company and defeating it would be getting people to stop doing myspace/wallstreet journal and watching fox news etc. There is a big difference"


A company is a group of people.

rays251 said...

"Rays251 I was watching Joe and Andria Mitchell released the poll and a graphic was displayed"


Can you link me to where the poll is displayed?

I don't have access to a TV right now.

Pierre said...

I think McCain is using Mason-Dixon as his internal pollster. There is simply no other explanation; that company has consistently shown McCain doing better than any other pollster.

Zechaplunga said...

markymark -

I think the comparison to '97 works as far as the incumbent part's concerned, though if anything there's even more disaffection with Bush than there was with the tories. The feeling in '97 was that the tories had had their day, that the same cynical, mildly corrupt old culprits couldn't be given power again. I remember the elation when they were voted out - strangers talked to each other at the bus stop a bit, which for London at least constitutes an extraordinary outburst of public joy.

Anger is much higher against Bush, I think. What I don't understand is why anger isn't higher against the Republican party. McCain seems to have been reasonably successful at implying that it's Bush, rather than the Republicans, who are to blame. And Obama hasn't used 'Republicans' much at all in his rhetoric, to avoid seeming partisan.

The other difference from '97 is Obama. Blair and Brown were bright and interesting and a breath of fresh air at the time, and managed to convince the public that Labour was no longer a basket-case. But Obama is in a different league as far as charisma is concerned.

apsyc - an old fruit salad that's gone slightly fizzy

rays251 said...

"M-D's PA poll is just the next version of that old MN poll that the right drooled over. That came...that fizzled...that was forgotten."


What were the numbers from the MN poll and when was this poll released?

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen
O-51
M-46

Back back to reality...

MysticLaker said...

thx ANT!!!

slama is my word

Antmatic said...

LOL, Rasmussen and DailyKos are showing the same margin when their sample weightings are so different.

Charles Crook said...

"The popular vote between Kennedy and Nixon was close but Kennedy won the electoral college by more than 50, so he won the election without Illinois."

In 1960, Illinois had 27 electoral votes. So if Kennedy had won by less than 54, then Illinois would have been the difference. But the final EV margin was much larger:

Kennedy 303
Nixon 219
Byrd 15

So Kennedy won by 84.

Heather Nordquist said...

Thanks Ant

MCCAIN SURGE!!!!!

*foxogaw*

Real Joe said...



Al Gore to return to FL to campaign for Obama

aaronklemz said...

I disagree with your reading of downstate as "red." Having lived in very southern Illinois, I'd characterize the area as more typically rural old-school Democrats who will peel off on social issues from the D party. It would elect a blue dog if it had it's druthers. While the mining days are pretty much over, there's a long history of labor in the region. I agree with pretty much everything else you said - good work and good luck in the last week!

PositiveMode said...

The most notable locations featured in John Hughes films are actually in northern Cook county (Wilmette and Winnetka, primarily).

Paul said...

Most of the John Hughes films shot in Chicagoland were done on the North Shore, which is wealthy but is still part of Cook County.

Rachel said...

"The only thing that may hold Obama's margins back is that half of Chicago may be volunteering in Indiana or Wisconsin on Election Day."

Nate, dude, get some sleep. We have EARLY VOTING. Believe me on this: those of us who are headed to Indiana and Wisconsin on the fourth have already voted. Which, if you haven't done already, you should do-- I think today is the last day of early voting and if the lines are any indication, election day is going to be utterly insane.

Josh said...

I agree McCain/Palin ad: One man has our trust: CHARACK O'BARKLEY.

R2000 seems to be sticking at +5 which is definitely movement for McCain since last week... Maybe it's some of those disgusting LET FREEDOM RING ads that are doing it? Or is the socialism BS really working?

Anyway - it's nice to see Ras back up to +5. I hope all of the polls are at least +5 by election day. That'd be a comfortable cushion.

Geoffrey said...

Yes, just to verify that today is the last day of early voting in IL. So, if you want to go help in some neighboring states, go vote today.

rikyrah said...

I hope Blago does appoint Jackon, Jr. I don't know if the 2 years would be enough time, but I do know this...he's a great campaigner, and nobody would hustle to keep that seat like him. If he doesn't win in the primary in 2010, so be it. But, I've been thinking that he would get the appointment.