Today we continue our Road to 270 series with the First State, Delaware.
LITERALLY, Delaware, ladies and gentlemen, is a state whose three electoral votes are going to Barack Obama. Delaware has gone Democratic by between 8 and 15 points the last four years, so when it goes blue again this time, well, that's not change, that's more of the same!
Key Demographics
Note: Factors colored in red can generally be thought to help McCain. Factors in blue can generally be thought to help Obama. Factors in purple have ambiguous effects. Except where otherwise apparent, the numbers next to each variable represent the proportion out of each 100 residents in each state who fall into that category. Fundraising numbers reflect dollars raised in the 2008 campaign cycle per eligible voter in each state. Figures for seniors and youth voters are proportions of all residents aged 18+, rather than all residents of any age. The figure for education reflects the average number of years of completed schooling for all adults aged 25+. The figure for same-sex households reflects the number of same-sex partner households as a proportion of all households in the state. The liberal-conservative index is scaled from 0 (conservative) to 100 (liberal), based on a Likert score of voter self-identification in 2004 exit polls. The turnout rates reflect eligible voters only. Unemployment rates are current as of June 2008.
What McCain Has Going For Him
Literally, not figuratively, literally John McCain's demographic bright spots in Delaware are small elements, such as the the percentage of military vets resting in the top third, the percentage of voters under 30 not being especially high, and his fundraising in the state being marginally higher than the median. I mean, John's a friend of mine, God love him. But folks, let's get real. Seriously, to say that John McCain is going to win Delaware when his tax policies are the same as George Bush's, when his foreign policy is the same as George Bush's, when his approach to judges is the same as George Bush's, well, folks, I gotta tell ya, that is literally not going to get the job done in this state.
What Obama Has Going For Him
Delaware has nearly everything shading in Barack Obama's direction, but Delaware sports very few extremes. The percentage of female voters (5th highest) and the percentage of self-identifying Democrats (6th highest) are literally the closest categories to one end of the spectrum or the other. Delaware has a huge percentage of black voters for a non-southern state, at over 20%, and 8th on the list. Tenth in same-sex households and eleventh in least gun-owning states, Delaware has literally two Starbucks for every Walmart. That's not change!
What To Watch For
Joe Biden is literally running for both Vice President and Senator, and folks, as my old schoolteacher Sister Mary Catherine McMurphy used to say, he's going to win both races. Mike Castle, the incumbent Republican lone House member, is safe for re-election, and Tom Carper is up for Senate again in 2012. Rumor has it that Joe's son Beau, who literally introduced his dad at the Pepsi Center in Denver for the elder Biden's nomination acceptance speech, is a strong candidate to replace his father in the Senate. Democratic Governor Ruth Ann Minner would appoint someone to the seat for two years until a special election in 2010. Beau Biden, Delaware's attorney general, is literally in Iraq. Literally -- not figuratively -- we've run this joke into the ground.
10.28.2008
Road to 270: Delaware
by Sean Quinn @ 12:41 PM...see also delaware, road to 270
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206 comments
LOL
Maine poll (Zzzzzzzzz....)
O: 54
M: 33
The Northeast and New England getting bluer by the day.
Link
This is great news -- for Joe Biden!!!
http://www.ultrasoundshirts.com
Ladies and gentlemen, LITERALLY! I'm not joking.
Please...no more...eyes bleeding....
"The Northeast and New England getting bluer by the day."
'Cause that be where the smart people at.
liberal elites
LOL my word verification was 'fookin' !
How many states remain on the Road to 270?
There's a three-letter word to describe Delaware in 2008. B-L-U-E.
:-)
Delaware. Hi...i'm in delaware.
Come visit the amazing screen door factory in...Delaware.
all joking aside http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/28/polls-show-little-movement-for-mccain-in-pennsylvania/
mccain has no chance inPA
but but but--Maine was supposed to give McCain that lonely vote to tie at 269. Where did that go? I guess the Palin visit killed it.
Brilliant, Sean. Absolutely brilliant.
Obama is going to win Delaware. Let me say that again....Obama is going to win Delaware.
Wait, did you just refer to Delaware as a "southern state"? No way, man. The south doesn't begin until you get at least down past Richmond, VA.
I lived 20 years in NJ and 5 in NC and I can't say that people in either location ever considered Delaware a southern state.
That said, a trip through "slower Delaware" does have a certain aroma similar to hog country down south.
Real Joe-
Can you at least give us a hint on what the surprise is? Who it favors? Or just flat out tell us...quit being coy
haha -- I didn't get it at first...
That was the funniest Road to 270 yet. Literally.
Still a week left. You can't have a nervous breakdown or develop multiple personalities just yet!
(Ok, the Biden can slide, as long as you guys don't start thinking you're Napoleon.)
I think the suprise is that Real Joe will vote for Obama.
Welcome aboard!
Sorry if this gets duplicated...
Here's a link I posted in the last thread about McCain's navy family protecting and covering up for him:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/28/news-orgs-investigate-pos_n_138449.html
October surprise?
Je suis Napoleon!
too late vegnablitz
Heh...this installment really makes me hope you're going to go beyond the promised 50 states and include a "Road to 270" for DC (hey, we might not have representation, but we've got 3 electoral votes, dadgumit!). Because I literally think McCain has even less going for him here in DC than he does in Delaware. Literally.
Seems RCP is too depressed by all the bad McCain polls to update today. They have only 1 state poll listed today thus far.
well Delaware isnt really a southern state its high black population can in part be explained by the fact that it was a slave state
Please, for the love of all that is pure and true, do one as Sarah Palin!
maine is no zzzzzzzzzzzzz....it tells a lot about nh, especially northern new hampshire which is more conservativce then the rest of the state.
Sean, fun read! :) Nice channeling of Joe Biden, there, God love him!
QT
Run that joke into the ground - literally!
lol
Thanks!
Delaware is a southern state, as defined by the Census Bureau, which makes those determinations.
One might think that a corporation-friendly state like DE would like McCain and his tax policies. But I guess all those types just incorporate in DE, they don't live there.
Speaking of Delaware, I was going to go to Obama's rally in Chester, PA (a very short distance to DE) but skipped it due to awful weather. Fortnately, 9,000 people were braver than me. McCain cancelled his PA rally today.
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/as-mccain-cancels-obama-rallies/
That said... I know what Nate says about PA, but the following makes me nervous:
http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/breaking-heres-what-we-know-about-pennsylvania-right-now/
I know you all say the Bradley effect is dead, but Pennsyltucky is the place I believe is most likely to employ it???
What, no "Ladies and Gentlemen" pun?
Delaware is south of the Mason-Dixon line, so it *was* southern, even if it doesn't culturally fit that definition today.
noiateerickson said...
Real Joe-
Can you at least give us a hint on what the surprise is? Who it favors? Or just flat out tell us...quit being coy
be patient
6 days to go
Delaware is south of the Mason-Dixon line, one of the determining factors in assigning region. It is more of a NE state these days, but honestly, the minute you drive south of Wilmington, it seems more southern, particularly along the shore.
In its politics, though, it has not been southern for a long time.
"Literally."
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
-- The Princess Bride
@Lisa
Friends don't let friends read Hillbuzz.
Voice of the Midwest,
Thanks for your article referenced in the previous thread. I agreed with much of it, though I think the numerous examples that Nate and 538 posters have uncovered about RCP manipulation of what polls they use (and when they use them) means that they DO "mess around with the science of polling."
Also, being a perpetually dissatisfied idealist, I think the media lose credibility when they stray too far from the facts, especially for mercenary reasons. Blogs and websites like Nate's and yours are now around to call them out when they don't tell the truth about, say, the margins of an Obama victory.
i just did some of my own analysis on the RCP poll situation. it shows O+7.2, but that's way misleading right now.
first, i reweighted the average by sample size. a 3000 person rasmussen poll should be worth 3 1000 person polls. next, i threw out the obviously crazy Pew Poll, which has O+15 when Obama is almost or more than ten points below that in every other poll. finally, i threw out the 5 days old Newsweek poll, and average the two gallup polls since they come from the same sample and should only be one poll.
the result is that the unweighted average (what RCP would report if they threw out the two bad polls) is O+5.4, and the weighted average is just O+4.7. it's getting realllllly close!
so let's dig deeper. Just yesterday the poll numbers showed O+7.6 assume a similar issue with throwing out a couple polls and you get down to maybe what, O+6.5 in what my adjustment should show? and most of these polls are 3 day averages...so, if you have two days of O+6.5, what does the third day need to be to bring the average down to O+4.7? after doing the math, its O+1
yes, O+1 could have been the average of yesterday's polling numbers if my assumptions of the world are right....and then there's the undecided lean to mccain which i truly believe.
things may not be over yet!
Hmmm, wow, I guess every single pollster in the entire country is wrong by a huge margin, but hillbuzz is right. LOL. For one thing, polls did NOT show Obama winning PA over Hillary.
also, i would love for Nate to explain his comments from last week that polls do not have momentum. they are 3 day rolling averages. i agree that day to day polling may be a random walk, but if something changes, there are 3 consecutive days in which it should gradually appear in the numbers, so polls by definition have momentum in rolling averages.
yes, theory capital, if you throw out the polls you don't like, and re-weight them to fit your assumptions, you can come up with almost any number...except for one that shows McCain ahead.
@rwd - there was exactly *one* poll that had Obama winning PA, which was (I think) PPP. But that pretty much fit the definition of outlier - no one else had Obama up, not even his own internals.
"If Bounds is right about Palin, the the next question she should expect to field about Alaska's Senate race -- if and when she makes herself available to the press -- will likely be whether she intends to vote for Begich over Stevens, or just leave that part of her ballot blank."
Perhaps the Alaska Independence Party has a Senate candidate...
I desperately hope that after this election the Dems get really serious about election reform and scrap the "Help America Vote (Republican) Act".
The touchscreen machines have got to go and we need a national standard for voting technology preferrably optical scanners as it leaves a papertrail and is nigh impossible to hack.
We need to shorten our campaign seasons and expand voting times. Registering everyone to vote should be the goal but don't make it mandatory because: A. this is America and you have the right NOT to vote, and B. too many people would vote based on idiotic crap like a candidate's looks and we've already dumbed things down too much.
Eric- I was born in that cultural armpit Wichita Falls- but there is a hardcore liberal minority here behind the Zion curtain.
The latest thing that drives me crazy:
The story that news and jokes have been "unbalanced" with negative stories about Mc v O
Well, Mc, if you wouldn't have produced such a gaffefest of a campaign, that might not be the case. I admit that I watch news updates for the latest outrageous moment coming from the Mc campaign because you just know it's only a matter of minutes before the next one.
The stories are the stories. The Dems just haven't offered the same wealth of material.
Fox tries desperately to run stories against O and they just fall flat because they aren't stories, aren't true or end up backfiring into an even bigger anti-Mc story (see, e.g. B-girl . . .)
you write that Mike Castle is a GOP House incumbent from Delaware. I thought you had previously written that Chris Shays was the lone GOP House member in the Northeast. Is Delaware not part of the 'Northeast'???
Joe Biden is pretty funny. He should keep us entertained during Obama's Presidency ;)
Thanks Simeon & RWD, I'll stop breathing into the bag now.
Theory, are you kidding, LOL!
ROFL @ theory capital
all that and mccain still is behind.
you could have at least cooked it a little bit more before you posted that bullshit to give your guy an edge.
Gallup: Big day for McCain...
@ rwd
LOL!!
"yes, theory capital, if you throw out the polls you don't like, and re-weight them to fit your assumptions, you can come up with almost any number...except for one that shows McCain ahead."
That's the funniest thing about this year - no matter how biased the site, no matter how cherry-picked, etc., no one seems to be able to manufacture a poll with McCain ahead even 0.1%. Kind of says it all. I
mean, hey, Kerry was behind in most polls, but at least Zogby would give us a few with him up to give us false hope. But this year, not even that. LMAO.
McCain has a strong day in Gallup.
RV: O 50-43 (-2, +1)
LV I: O 51-44 (-2, +1)
LV II: O 49-47 (-1, +2)
Hope this is a one day phenomenon.
I think there shouldn't be any voter registration. Some states don't require it and it works for them, right? Other countries don't require voter registration. You just show up and vote.
I also think election day should be an election weekend. Something like Saturday through Monday or Tuesday even.
Or at least make Election Day a Holiday. I think that's something that Americans would support. How can you make a good argument against it really?
now we are quoting hillbuzz here? gosh. And for the 100679th time: Obama NEVER led in PA, the average of polls said Hillary was up between 8-10 points she won by 7.3 or something like that.
PSA---DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. PLEASE.
(sorry to yell)
Chris Shays is currently the only R in New England, although he could lose.
NY, NJ, MD, PA all have R reps, so they are covered elsewhere. Several seats will change to D this time though
Theory Capital:
If I add the numbers 2, 3, 4, and 5, but take out 4 because it's an ugly number, and change 5 to 1 because I think all fives should be ones, then weight it to account for the Bradley Effect and for prayer power, it appears McCain will win in a land slide!
Hillbuzz
LOL
Gallup's poll has swung a bit in McCain's favor before - and it's always swung back towards Obama.
I mean there does appear to be some slight tightening in the daily trackers - but then you have the Pew poll which flies in the face of all of that.
I think it's just noise for the most part and maybe some undecideds moving to McCain (but some also appear to be moving to Obama if you look at the pollster.com average.)
Best Gallup quote ever:
"As is often the case for candidates who are down in the polls in the last weeks of a campaign, McCain has incorporated into his speech a statement to the effect that despite polls showing him losing to Obama, he will ultimately win."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111559/Seven-Americans-Believe-Obama-Will-Win-Election.aspx
yeah, yeah, so GOTV
Gallup means a very strong Obama day (Friday) fell off
I'm sure this has probably been answered 1,590 times, but I'm asking anyway:
Does Nate's model compensate for the "internals" of these state polls? Does it correct for oversampling of one party over another?
LOL...great post.
@Sam...best movie ever.
Real Joe's surprise: Palin will be appointing him to Alaska's soon to be empty senate seat.
Real Joe is Joe Biden!!!
Beau Biden replacing his dad is a no-brainer, but I wonder how up-and-coming Delaware Dem pols would react.
McCain's campaign is the perfect finish to this-
http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2303
I just don't see any news events that could possibly be pushing people towards McCain - there's just more and more bad news for them. Their campaign appears to be imploding. They have no new message. There's just nothing there. It's hard to believe any polls that are showing any great shift towards McCain as it doesn't make any sense.
Getting a little punchy now, aren't we, Sean? God love you.
For those saying Delaware's south of the Mason-Dixon: True enough, if you project the Maryland/PA border (the line) on east, but Mason and Dixon also surveyed the Maryland/Delaware border. That's right, Delaware is east of the Mason/Dixon line.
Culturally, north of the C&D canal (about ten miles south of Wilmington) it's very northeastern, south of it, it's very upper-southy.
Former REP Gov of MA endorses Obama...
Too bad it wasn't Mitt Romney (It was some other guy i've never heard of but still fun times) The dems should run an add saying even the former gov of MA has endorsed Obama and have a pic of Mitt Romney...
OK so that would be a McCain add an dnot Obama but still a fun idea
I've given up trying to figure Gallup out. Way too volatile this election cycle.
What a great post.
Exactly in the past didnt gallup only do RV? They should have stuck to one.
First-time post: Heads-up about Indiana!
INDIANAPOLIS -- The fourth and final Howey-Gauge Poll of 2008 will be released today via a conference call at 3 p.m. (EST) today (Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2008) that is open to subscribers, advertisers and media only. The statewide survey of 600 likely voters was conducted October 23/24 and includes poll results for the Presidential, Indiana Governor, Attorney General, Superintendent of Public Instruction and the 3rd Congressional District (northeast Indiana).
What: Howey-Gauge Poll results
When: 3 p.m. (EST)
Dial-In Number
Toll Free: 866-809-6529
Conference code: 6033366#
Press *6 to mute your Individual Line; to unmute, press*6 a second time.
So yesterday DKos tracker was down today it is up all the other trackers are the same and now Gallup has McCain up but all the state polling shows no movement.
More noise. Maybe McCain will go back up to 4 or 5 in Nate's model?
Remember too, the last 3 weeks the Gallup numbers for Obama have been awful so brace yourselves.
I think Rass will show a 5 point race in Nevada like last time. But maybe he will show tightening? Who knows?
@Derek said...
"Former REP Gov of MA endorses Obama...
Too bad it wasn't Mitt Romney (It was some other guy i've never heard of but still fun times)"
That endorsement was William Weld. It was a BIG deal when he won as a Republican in MA. He's well known in these parts.
The city of Chicago's retired top police expert on handling major events says he has been hired to plan for Barack Obama's Election Night rally in Grant Park.
Former Chicago Police district commander Neil Sullivan, who three years ago rewrote the city's disaster and evacuation plans, will coordinate security efforts for the Nov. 4 outdoor rally for Obama, the Democratic U.S. presidential nominee and U.S. senator from Illinois, the Chicago Sun-Times reported Tuesday.
Sullivan told the newspaper it was "not a state secret" that he would be in charge of the event, but refused to talk about plans that include ordering of off-duty firefighters and paramedics to take all of their gear home with them in case of an emergency at the rally.
Ray Orozco, executive director of the city's office of emergency management and communications, told the Sun-Times Sullivan was originally hired to handle possible baseball fan celebrations had the Chicago Cubs and White Sox made it to the World Series.
Chicago Mayor Richard Daley has said the Election Night rally will cost the city $2 million. The Obama campaign has agreed to cover all of the costs, he said.
Delaware voters are clean and articulate.
sorry that should read "the wednesday numbers for Obama have been awful".
RCP cherry picking again. They are not listing Gallup extended.
According to MSNBC there is a conflict in AL law saying that Palin gets to pick the person to hold the Seat until an election... So it is unclear
Delaware also has a historically black (formerly) segregated state college system. You don't have to go back to the nineteenth century to find effects of its slaveholding past.
how funny...RCP has only included the gallup traditional poll.
susan said...
First-time post: Heads-up about Indiana!
thanks for the info
welcome to 538
Isn't Delaware, along with PA, NJ, NY, considered a Mid-Atlantic state?
Who cares..
Pew >> Gallup
RCP is showing traditional and expanded for me.
OK - I did TCs analysis, but used only the trackers, keeping both Gallups and adding R2000.
O: 49.85
M: 45.05
O + 4.8
That sounds about right. The key though is that every single undecided would have to vote for McCain for him to win.
Its clear that whats happening is generally Obama support remains high, but the undecideds are deciding for McCain - which is expected.
McCain may also be wooing some Republicans back to the fold by hammering on the old boogaboo of socialism.
Regardless - 4.8% would be bigger than both of the last two electoral margins combined.
Little secret behind the outdoor Chicago event - it is a major part of the city's plan to get the 2016 Olympic.
It is one of the 5 finalists. Staging a massive outdoor event that the whole world will be watching is a key in impressing the IOC. (Having Pres. Obama personally making the pitch to them next year won't hurt either).
Traditional model is a joke
not here yet..
also...this is when it would help if Gallup did state polling because Obama losing points in the traditional model does not seem to have meant a decline in state polling for obama.
P.S
I almost got in a fight in my conservative private christian college library. I was ease dropping on this guy who was saying how obama wasnt a foreign zitizen and once he get's elected he will get impeached he kept on talking and I got tired of it and went up to him and said it's one thing to support mccain...it's another thing to spread the BS and Hate that you are spewing that you get from Spam Emails and Faux News. (I'm not religious but this is what I said next) God would be very dissapointed in you. You are a hypocrit. You call yourself a christian? Please. We had to be seperated by the coffee lady.
"Isn't Delaware, along with PA, NJ, NY, considered a Mid-Atlantic state?"
You would think - but Delaware has impugned itself by hosting two NASCAR races a year in Dover - making it southern. ;)
delaware is EAST of the mason-dixon line, you numnuts. e.g., elkton, md is in the south. newark, de is in the north.
NEWS fro FL
another election SNAFU...
turns out that many absentee ballots required excess postage for mailing - and this was contradicted by the instructions
I just called my local PO, and they conmfirmed that here in Volusia County amny of the absentee ballots weigh marginally more than required for 42 cents postage - and need 59 cents to mail
BUT to avoid another epic failure in the FL manner of screwing up elections, the PO has decided to deliver all absentee ballots regardles of postage requirements - and then to bill the office of elections for the shortages.
can anyone else believe the sheer stoopidity of this - oh, wait we are talking about FL voting...
Hard to base this election on past history since this is an historic election.
@lat
Bill Weld is the only Republican I've ever voted for in my life. He (not Mitt, though) actually balanced this state's budget. The quality of life here improved immeasurably under Bill Weld, as opposed to Mitt. I really wish Weld had stayed in the NY Governor's race. He's an interesting person, and worth reading up about. /end @lat
Regarding Delaware being part of the Northeast - well, no, it's part of the Mid-Atlantic states.
And on Maine, while I think Susan Collins will win there, she has made no bones about how livid she is at both the conduct of the Presidential campaign and the robo-calls.
Early voting update:
GA:
1,206,891 voted which is 36% of total voted in 2004. Only 20.2% voted early in 2004.
GA is having a big turnout and AA still holding at 35% of those voted. If AA hold above 30% Obama can win. 2004 AA only acounted for25% of all votes cast though they were 29% of registered electorate.
So you eavesdropped on a private conversation and almost started a fight?
Pretty jerky.
People have been asking about the wednesday rally with Obama and Bill? well Bill and O are doing a huge rally in FL on wednesday--at midnight! These guys know how to get the media up in a buzz. The rally will be in Kissimmee (Spelling?)
Despite what several commenters seem to believe, Delaware is not south of the Mason-Dixon Line. The famous M-D line was the result of a survey carried out between 1763 and 1767 by Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon to resolve a colonial-era border dispute. The Mason-Dixon Line, separates Maryland from its neighbors, putting Delaware east of the famous line. I guess that makes it an eastern state, not part of the South.
But in some ways it was not all that different from Maryland, on the other side of the line. Like some other 'border states' that sided with the Union in the Civil War, Delaware has a history as a slave state. And even after the end of slavery, Delaware had racial segregation written into its state constitution and enforced by law until 1954, when it was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of its landmark Brown v. Board of Education decision.
Whoops
Forgot the ABCNews tracker
Make that
O: 50.05
M: 45.05
O: +5
You would think - but Delaware has impugned itself by hosting two NASCAR races a year in Dover - making it southern. ;)
GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!!!
Bla! The World Series game will be on Wednesday night due to rain.
Real Joe said...
Traditional model is a joke
Yes. But this is why Gallup gets the A from me this election. They are the only pollster who is explicitly stating:
We don't know what turnout will look like
Turnout matters
Here's our best guess at results on the two extremes.
The public is informed. I like it - a lot.
InsiderAdvantage Georgia...
M: 48
O: 47
Barr: 1
Wow!
Chambliss barely hangong on against Martin.
Inkstain, I am tired of the hatred. Plus when you talk loud enough for the whole library to hear you then it's all on the table.
Southern New Jersey, Eastern and Southern Maryland and Southern Delaware are all pretty southern.
More so than say northern Virginia.
Voter turnout. Period. End Game.
I hear that in Virginia that AA turnout is expected to be over 90%. In America an overall turnout of 62% is considered good. An AA turnout out of about 2% less than that is normal.
In my 62 years I have NEVER seen youth vote in their own interests in any significant numbers. I expect them NOT to vote much more than normal this cycle. However, I think AA's are going to vote in numbers that are unheard of. Thank God!
The question is; will enough of them vote to make up for the thousands and thousands being culled by voting authorities?
@theory capital
"first, i reweighted the average by sample size. a 3000 person rasmussen poll should be worth 3 1000 person polls."
Sampling error decreases as the square root of the sample size. A 3000-person poll is only worth 1.73 1000-person polls.
["marthial" ??? As in "marthial law"??? Some kind of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy police state?]
Sounds to me that you are as guilty of hatred as anyone.
"so when it goes blue again this time, well, that's not change, that's more of the same!
"
I think Sean is getting a leetle punch drunk! Too much airline food, or QuickStop snacks....
slicknshady - funny story. You should've told him that McCain was born in Panama, then sat back and watched him squirm. (It's true, but Panama was US-controlled at the time so it doesn't bar him from being President, but yes, Obama is not the one who was born outside the USA).
I hope for Obama's sake that Chicago doesn't get the 2016 Olympic bid. It'd be nothing but seven years of bad press and accusations of graft and cronyism for him. I'm glad that the city I was born in is hosting in 2012, but it is a strain on the political elite rather than a boon to them - which is fine by me because I think they can all go to hell, but I'm betting Obama will have a better presidency without that poisoned chalice. Sadly, if he puts a word in for Chicago the world's narrative will likely make it happen.
The funny thing is that of course Obama IS definitely a citizen. The guy didnt even know what he was talking about.
I've been saying for weeks, Obama has at least a good a shot in GA as he does in NC. In fact, it's my quasi-shocker prediction. With the polls as they are, it wont be much of a shocker anymore though.
sorry doesn't the tracker come out at 5pm for ABC? and since when do they do decimals? Am I imagining that they do not?
Aunt Karen--maybe it was someone else that wrote about Weld. I did not. But a howdy to you anyway. ;-)
Early voting NC also strong:
1,411,999 voted
Dems 54.6%
Rep 28.1%
Ind 17.3%
39.7% of votes cast in 2004 already early voted. almost 10% increase in early vote.
AA holding consistently at 28% of votes cast. All the pollsters are forecasting AA as 21% of electorate the same as 2004. Obama's support in the south GA and NC may be being greatly underpolled without them projecting any Increase AA as percentage of electorate from 2004.
"And on Maine, while I think Susan Collins will win there, she has made no bones about how livid she is at both the conduct of the Presidential campaign and the robo-calls." (Aunt Karen)
Senator Collins of Maine has to go national with her dismay. Otherwise, she comes off as Claude Rains in "Casablanca" in her shock that there is gambling in this establishment.
She and Olympia Snowe are more dependable for the Democrats when it comes to a veto proof majority with every percent of the spread that Barack Obama gets in Maine.
Why is it a problem to automatically register every US citizen? Make it like the Selective Service registration--at age 17 everyone must register to vote.
This is not a violation of rights, you don't have to vote even if registered. It would make things far far easier and less prone to these GOP voter purges.
lat, sorry, I was out for a bit and catching up on the comments, thought it was your name. And right back atcha!
If McCain were born in Borneo, he'd still be a native-born American eligible to be president. His parents were both American citizens. That and/or being born in the US (parental citizenship not a factor then) both qualify.
INKSTAIN
you are the one being a hater
very judgmental of you IMHO
you were not there
if SLICK could hear the conversation then it was meant to be a public speech that he was correct to call out as any reasonable person should do
what is your problem man ?
get over your self-righteous self
good for you, SLICK
"what is your problem man ?"
Almost starting fights over political discussions, no matter how ill-informed, is everything that is wrong with this country.
I was disgusted by it when the right started this in 2000, and I'm even more disgusted and surprised at what I've seen from the left this time around.
@lat
Sorry - that was an amendment to my post about a weighted average of the tracking polls
I had forgotten to include the ABC news poll.
Thanks to all pointing out that Delaware is east of the Mason-Dixon line - I had no idea.
Hmm are we really gonna get worried about Obama only having a 7 point lead? (lets all just forget about the useless trad LV model!) RV is exactly were it was 5 days back.
Incidentally, not really seen it commented upon, but given the old days of picking a veep to try and win a state, interesting that in 2008 the veeps are from Delaware and Alaska, combined population roughly 1 1/2 million people.
Thomas can you provide a link to that post of the ABC tracker you said is out? I have not seen it and the usual posting time is 5 and they do not use decimals that I know. Thanks.
Frankly, since Oregon seems to have the vote by mail thing down to a science, I don't understand why every single state doesn't go that way.
Back to Susan Collins, her hands are full right now, her race is tightening quite a bit, but I did hear her on some national program when the robo-calls started calling for an end to them. I am sorry, it's a couple of weeks, I've slept since then, and can't remember where it was.
I happen to be a vocal obama supporter at a christian university and that's not always a good thing. I'm glad that the majority of the professors here are Obama supporters (60-40). I actually have a couple professors (they are married) that are pro-life democrats.
keep your eyes on state polls
thanks Thomas! I thought I had gone insane. You know consuming so much info I can't keep track anymore.
Thomas' #s are a poll average that now includes yesterday's ABC tracker. That # is not ABC.
also i don't think any of the news organizations (besides Faux) shows the gallup traditional model. They always show the RV.
I'm am usuaully in agreement with inkstein here but in this case he was asking for it.
INK
spreading lies is worth fighting against the liars - matter of principle
otherwise you might as well just roll over & just die like the haters want you to do
you got it backwards, stand up for what you believe or you do not really believe in anything
Michael,
Republicans fight every attempt to make voter registration easy. The yfight motor voter laws which register people if they get a drivers liscense. They fight against registration when you have other contact with government agencies that you would be giving over the same info needed to register. Repubs know the more people registerd and thta vote their chances of winning decreases.
InsiderAdvantage seem to have a distinct house effect for the Dems, but Nate pegged their PIE during the primaries as a mere 1.9 points - right in the middle of the table. But still. M+1 in GA, with so many AAs voting, and so many conservatives expressing disinterest and dismay - I'm almost starting to believe this one, god help me.
My word verification is 'taters'. Can I have some neeps and beans with that?
On the citizenship question, isn't it moot? My understanding of US citizenship is that if your mother is a citizen, even if you're born somewhere else, then you are still a citizen until such time you renounce that citizenship, right?
"you got it backwards, stand up for what you believe or you do not really believe in anything"
There's a time and a place for it. Eavesdropping and starting fights is not it.
I happen to be secure enough in my beliefs and my faith in the marketplace of ideas to let good ideas win out and agree to disagree with idiots without being confrontational.
but then the repubs say he lost his citizenship when he moved to indeneishia and so on and on. they keep pulling crap out of their butt.
Speaking of that, even if we only get 59 seats in the Senate, Olympia Snowe and Arlen Specter will likely be heavily lobbied to switch parties.
To be fair on Repubs -
Someone posted here or on Kos about how in Fort Collins, CO, the local Repub clerk is allowing votes to be counted that violate a checked-box technicality the Repub SoS wants to enforce. She said the important thing is to let people vote. GOP poll workers all over the country seem moved by the turnout.
There is much of the GOP base that is decent, fair and honorable. It is too bad that so much of their leadership is not as much so.
33% of the entire United States of America is Kenyan (or Indonisian).
LAT
yeah, the big Bill & Barack FL rally is scheduled for Kissimmee, down by the attractions [Disney, etc] on Wed night
it is outdoors scheduled for 11 PM start - WTF
not a good idea IMHO
I was planning to go, but that is too far, too late; bad time & odd location
I would be amazed if they get a huge crowd which is entirely too bad
especially since it will be up against the World Series & his own prime time address on TV
nyc dem - its not about citizenship, its about the Constitutional requirement that the President be a natural born Dem, which has been taken to mean that the Prez has to be born inside of the US or its territories (including miltary bases).
The accusation is that Obama was actually born in Indonesia, and is therefore not a natural born citizen.
It's a little more complicated. *if* Obama were born outside the united states but everything else were true, he would not be a citizen iirc.
But he was born in Hawaii, so it's moot.
Mark Ambinder:
Rush's Not Sure About "Socialism"
Language matters.
//
Said Rush Limbaugh on his radio program today:
"I am wondering how many people under 50 actually know what socialism is, and if they do, do they know its bad? It may be taught as something fair and great and something that we should aspire to. I learned its dangers from my parents, my dad started telling me about this when I was nine, I'm trying to remember if I actually learned this in school though. This is not to put down the public school system when I was there, but I don't recall socialism being brought up; communism yes, not socialism."
//
Obama was born in HA ,there is no citizenship question.
phil said...
Delaware also has a historically black (formerly) segregated state college system. You don't have to go back to the nineteenth century to find effects of its slaveholding past.
Not exactly. Delaware State University is a historically black university that was indeed segregated until the 1950's, along with the University of Delaware (which admitted only whites). But Delaware has no "state college system" to speak of. We do have campuses of Delaware Community & Technical College all over the state, but Del Tech was established well after segregation ended.
On RCP, McCain has gone from "solid McCain" to "leaning McCain". they have him with a 6pt lead in their averages.
When is McCain up for re-election to the Senate? The result in his home state may be a bad omen for his Senate career. Gore lost TN and nobody at that time believed he could've won a Senate race in that state if he had run in 2000. Edwards could not bring in NC in 2004 and again, nobody believes he would've won his own Senate seat if he had decided to run.
Will McCain suffer the same fate?
I stand corrected on Delaware and its position vis-Ã -vis the Mason-Dixon line. Apparently, it is neither North nor South, but part of the East.
According to Nate, it appears to also be part of "Acela" - whatever the heck that stands for.
Lisa says, "I know you all say the Bradley effect is dead, but Pennsyltucky is the place I believe is most likely to employ it???"
No, actually Pennsyltucky is where it is LEAST likely. The Bradley effect depends on people being embarrassed about racism; in places where people are quite open about it, there is no "Bradley".
I was just on RCP and clicked on a Chicago Tribune article "Reasons why Obama might lose Tuesday", and except for the Trib logo, the page came up completely blank!
IF there was anything to this Berg suit (or BS for short) about Obama's eligibility, it would have already been decided. If there was a good chance the suit could be won, Berg would have gotten a TRO keeping Obama off the ballot.
If McCain didn't run for President, would Arizona be in Obama's column right now?
I was not trying to group all repubs together. I voted for Bush in '04. I'm an Idependent. My dad's side of the family is all for mccain except my dad. Not all of them are ignorant but my Grandpa is a racist. There are a lot of good repubs in the world. I just said repubs because it's easier to group it like that then make a five word name for it.
Check out this video link of McCain on Wealth Distribution and Socialism in 2000 @ a Townhall Debate. You'll be in for a shock.
VIDEO LINK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvtq4UYNIE
Paraphrased Below:
Person: Why does someone like my father who is a doctor have to be penalized in a huge tax bracket
McCain: Wealthy people can afford more
BOO FROM THE CROWD
Person: Aren't we getting closer and closer to socialism?
McCain: I think once you reach a certain level of comfort There is nothing wrong with paying somewhat more
Everyone should put their feet where their mouth is and participate in the GOTV effort for Obama. They are going to need everyone to help secure a large margin to carry some strong political capital to ensure his policy is passed once elected. If he squeaks by in this election, support for his policy will be countered by a marginal win.
Personally, I'm taking off the 3rd and 4th to participate. It will be the best two days of vacation I'll be taking for a long time to help out with this historic election that will change the direction of this Country.
SHOCK! BREAKING!
"J" carved into face of Obama supporter by really old white guy...DEVELOPING...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/26/obama-supporter-j-carved_n_137923.html
I think Inkstain has a point, though I'd hardly call it Slick's fault; there is something toxic about how Americans rarely speak civilly across party lines. I don't follow rightie news & views much, but this toxicity is plainly evident in the American left. I blogged about it a few weeks ago. That was before the McCain camp got truly ugly, but however horrifying they are, the US left has its horrifying moments too. I don't think people like Slick can heal them in a few seconds of conversation, but more dialogue - and less hiding behind deference and bullshit social rules that say you shouldn't talk about this stuff - is required.
Slick, I'd love to hear more stories about being a Democrat at a Christian university. I'm betting you've seen a few things. ;)
INK
you take 'eavesdropping' too literally
SLICK said that he & others could clearly hear the guy talking out loud - so it was a public pronouncement
SLICK was not using technology to listen in on a private conversation
he just used the wrong choice of words - it was not eavesdropping per se IMHO
but you are still wrong in my book - and it cuts both ways
I have told people on airplanes to shut their pieholes when I can hear them spewing noxious hate speech in 'private conversations' that are loud enough that I am subjected to it when I am sitting nearby
if it is offensive, then one should stand up for their principles or you give tacit approval for bad behaviour
freedom of speech does not mean that youy cannot be called on it
John McCain should be called on the carpet for his fear & hate-mongering now IMHO
Jeff -
If one parent is not an American citizen and you are born outside the US, then you need to establish citizenship as I understand - it is not automatic.
On the FL rally - it won't begin until after game 6 (if played) so the huge viewership watching it will seque right into it on the news.
Since it won't in any case be a game in which Tampa Bay can win the series, I guess they are betting the local Fox station would go right to it.
However, the game, based on normal average times, won't be over until midnight.
Then again, there might not be a game tomorrow. Or the game tomorrow could end up being the wrapup of Game 5, which means it should be over early (if they can't get the game in tonight).
They are also looking to get prime coverage on the Thursday AM morning shows, which may be a major factor in the timing.
@Thomas
"nyc dem - its not about citizenship, its about the Constitutional requirement that the President be a natural born Dem, which has been taken to mean that the Prez has to be born inside of the US or its territories (including miltary bases).
No. I was born in Japan. I am a natural born US citizen.
["coplized" - That one makes me a little uncomfortable....]
The 9000 people at today's Obama rally--outside, in the rain--kinda helps answer the questions in the earlier thread about how bad weather might affect turnout. I don't think it's going to hurt Obama too badly.
Somehow the "coffee lady" breaking up slick's fight in the library struck me as funny!
"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."
"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."
"However, the State Department is of the opinion that this does not affect those who are born abroad to U.S. citizens and who otherwise meet the qualifications for statutory citizenship."
by the way, 'literally' literally works as a verification word for this post
Long time lurker, First time poster.
Folks need to quit worrying about the damn daily trackers. This campaign will end tomorrow night. Obama will put it away.
The one parent is a US Citizen, therefore you are thing post-dates Obama's birth. Up til it was changed, both parents had to be citizens.
Still, as this article plainly shows (they did their own research), he was clearly born in Hawaii (and after it was already a state):
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
"According to Nate, it appears to also be part of "Acela" - whatever the heck that stands for"
That's the brand name for the hi-speed train Amtrak runs on the Northeast line from Washington to Boston.
Fismsedo? I got nothin'.
-Thomas
nyc dem - its not about citizenship, its about the Constitutional requirement that the President be a natural born Dem, which has been taken to mean that the Prez has to be born inside of the US or its territories (including miltary bases).-
Once again - WRONG!!
Someone born to 2 US citizens born outside of the US is an American citizen at birth and eligible to be president.
George Romney was born in Mexico to Mormon missionary parents. Had he been elected in 1968, he would have been president, unchallenged.
Suffolk: Nevada, 10/23-27 (9/17-21 in parenthesis)
Obama 50 (45)
McCain 40 (46)
Obama +5, McCain -6 = 11 point change in favor of Obama
http://www.suffolk.edu/offices/20580.html#anchor32718
"Real Joe said:
...Chicago Mayor Richard Daley has said the Election Night rally will cost the city $2 million. The Obama campaign has agreed to cover all of the costs, he said."
Looking out my office window, I can tell you construction on the rally site is proceeding rapidly!
Yes I have thene...I have heard the students here are more republican unlike the professors who leab democratic. for exaple the Spring Arbor Students For Obama group has 49 members and theSay No To Obama Group At Spring Arbor is only 22 and about 5 of them are Obama supporters trying to straighten out the mccain ones. Still it's no surprise to me that Obama is probably going to win michigan by double digits because Jackson MI is the birthplace of the republican party and spring arbor which is next to Jackson is a conservative town and it is really tight this year.
I'll have to post a couple of articles from my schools paper this last week. I was really dissapointed that a girl i like basically worte an article saying abortion is ten times worse then poverty, slavery, and etc. It was on one issue voting. Another by a professor who graduated from harvard who is bashing obama and saying if you vote for Obama you share his guilt and face eternal damnation or some crap. it ticks me off. I had him my first year here and hated him then. He's probably upset that Obamas GPA at Harvard was higher than his. lol.
as I said, Nevada has gone.
Gallup are really starting to get on my tits, likewise the other daily trackers. But it does confirm, as I said yesterday, that Obama has had a significant drop-off across the board. The question is, WHY??? The Republican ticket is imploding, morale is low, yet nationally it's tightening. Nate is surely scaratching his head, slso. How McCain gets any bounce at this point is beyond me. I mean, 3%. WTF???
Obama supporters
watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xnk9aqih8o
haha
"Once again - WRONG!!
Someone born to 2 US citizens born outside of the US is an American citizen at birth and eligible to be president."
Don't shout me off the boards, but was Obama's father a US citizen? I thought he was here only temporarily?
@s said...Folks need to quit worrying about the damn daily trackers. This campaign will end tomorrow night. Obama will put it away.
I don't agree, I think the campaign
will continue to campaign up until
the last day. Obviously there's not
much more he can add to his message
or talking points if that's what
you mean. But the campaign will
continue until Tuesday, Novemeber
4th.
Go "O"
Terrible polling day for McCain thus far, with the exception of Gallup, which doesn't mean much.
I'm very curious as to how accurate the Pew research poll has been in the past?
its over in NV
i need to see some NM polls
Man I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with 538's odds. How can Obama have an 84% chance of winning Ohio, but an 80% chance of losing Ohio and winning the election?
josh said...
I'm very curious as to how accurate the Pew research poll has been in the past?
they predicted 2004 nicely
Josh, They were very accuarate last election. Bush 51 Kerry 48
Thank god SlickNickShady that I don't believe in god. Means no damnation for me, just returning to the dirt.
mystic--thanks for that Suffolk of Nevada. That will even out whatever Rass puts out today. ;-)
Interesting that Rush is now worried that they have not made Obama 'radical' enough by calling him a Socialist I guess he thinks they should call him a communist. Fascinating how these people have NO clue how these arguments are so 20th century and not grounded in reality. If they did they would know that it is a Socialist president in Chile who took the economy to its greatest growth and diminished poverty and made some headway with inequality by hedging pretty close to the Wash Consensus. What world does he and others like him live in. Zero understanding of how the world has changed.
@sfergus483
"If one parent is not an American citizen and you are born outside the US, then you need to establish citizenship as I understand - it is not automatic."
Yes, but the process is anything but onerous. My parents went to the consulate, filled out a couple of forms, and it was done.
["lectan" - I forget what the recommended daily allowance of lectan is?]
Gentlemen: to put this citizenship matter to rest, it is NOT a requirement that the person be born inside the US territory to be considered a "natural born US citizen". If the parents are natural born Americans you may be born in Montana or in Brazil - it doesn't matter, you are a NATURAL BORN US CITIZEN. Period!
I think it's laughable that people keep arguing about this...John McCain was also born overseas (in a US military base in the Panama Canal), so he's also Panamanian!
shady says, "I got tired of it and went up to him and said it's one thing to support mccain...it's another thing to spread the BS and Hate that you are spewing that you get from Spam Emails and Faux News."
To be fair: the "Obama isn't a citizen" rubbish has been the subject of a lot of spam e-mails, but Fox News has never touched that one (Obama does make his birth certificate available for examination, and I have heard that Fox News did take a look at it).
Great video, real joe. Thanks for that!
lucyp said...
Don't shout me off the boards, but was Obama's father a US citizen? I thought he was here only temporarily?
Obama was born in Hawaii
Hawaii is a state at the time of Obama's birth
citizenship of father & mother is irrelevant
Haha real joe. That video is hilarious.
I see we are bouncing around the whole he is not really American thing once again. Pathetic really. The guy was born in Hawaii with an American mother. Get over it please, for the sake of the country.
On the late night show in Florida, maybe the Daily Show will be live on Wednesday night, and do a live feed from that rally? Real Joe informed us Obama is a guest on Wednesday, and the Daily Show site doesn't have the guest for Wednesday yet, so my guess is Joe is right. Obama has done that trick a few times on TV show appearances (he has done it with the Daily Show already, back in the Primary season).
"iron pipes and bottle caps that are on the desk said...
Man I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with 538's odds. How can Obama have an 84% chance of winning Ohio, but an 80% chance of losing Ohio and winning the election?"
That means that OUT OF the 16% of the cases where Obama loses Ohio, Obama still wins the election 80% of that 16%.
conizing!
Real Joe--you are the King of Links.
That video from the Obama camp is the best most inspirational thing I have seen in a long time. Also hugely funny.
liberal_defender_of_freedom said...
Haha real joe. That video is hilarious.
yes, very funny
Obama campaign posted the video
interesting that this year three of the major candidates have some unusual aspects about their being "natural american"
mccain and romney being born abroad, obama of a foreign father
Jeff...I actually may write in to the paper in the opinion area and make a comment that Chuck White (the professor) is a hyopcrit by condemning obama supporters when Chuck calls himself a Christian. I'm sorry but God does not have a party or ideology. I beleive In God but I am not religious. I think of the bible as a fiction book.
Sorry, yeah I know that the question about parents' citizenship is irrelevant, I was just trying to confirm what I had in my brain about his father.... Should have been clearer!
Unless....(*cue scary music*)he was really born on the Pacific island of Atoregu! *duh, duh, duh....* [Atoregu is my verification word!]
Obama keeps losing ground in the polls. Bradley/PDS effect equals 7%. Utter disconsolation for Obamabots on Election Night. Buy stock in Gillette!
Great vid, real joe! Thanks for the laugh.
Blogger iron pipes and bottle caps that are on the desk said...
Man I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with 538's odds. How can Obama have an 84% chance of winning Ohio, but an 80% chance of losing Ohio and winning the election?
This means that even in those scenarios Obama loses Ohio (16%), he still wins the election 80% of time.
one word for you petekent.
PEW
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