A month ago at the convention in St. Paul, I spoke with Jennifer Ping, the Republican Vice-Chair of the Marion County Central Committee. I was asking her what Republicans were doing on the ground in Indiana. The story I’d heard, I told her, was that Obama had a huge ground game there but McCain and the Republicans did not. Was that true? I asked.
After all, Democrats registered the overwhelming majority of the 706,038 newly registered and info-updated Indianans Hoosiers in 2008.
Jennifer told me that they were working hard, and that they still got three “touches” on their voters each year. “Touch” is a field term for voter contact, and as naughty as it sounds, it’s the way campaigns and parties maintain their voter files throughout the year. It’s very difficult for parties to maintain voter files – literally the most valuable property any state party or national party owns – without regular contact. It’s why Democrats have recently put an emphasis on a long-term 50-state program, because these things can’t be built overnight. Getting tired of losing national elections inspires that kind of strategy revision.
In New Albany, right across the Ohio River from Louisville, we saw an effort that included weeknight canvassers and phone bankers, just the customary grinding voter contact game these Obama organizers have perfected.
Another thing Jennifer told me was that the Democrats did not, contrary to their claims, have an office in Columbus, Indiana, that it was “just a desk.” Well, after we stopped in New Albany, we zipped up to the Obama Columbus office and found it both open and busy. Jonathan Swain, Barack Obama’s Communications Director, noted that it was one of 43 field offices open around the state, with the potential for a couple more to be added in the final weeks. In all 92 Indiana counties, Swain said, “Barack Obama always intended to compete and compete hard.”
Obama moved into high gear in the Hoosier State in mid-June, only a few weeks after the May 6 primary, and the ability to have a late primary allowed Obama to essentially continue operating at full bore right from the getgo. With unemployment in Indiana at its highest rate since 1987 and average wages down $4,000 since Bush took office in 2000, Swain said,
Still, Swain acknowledges it's an uphill fight. "History was not on our side" when the campaign decided to work a large campaign here. When the polls were a little tighter, many criticized the Obama effort, arguing that Indiana couldn't possibly go blue, and that working the ground here is a waste of resources. Instead, we have a race that, in Dan Rather-speak, is as tight as a tick. Recent polls have showed the race within the margin of error, and the Obama campaign is confident that in a coin flip race -- a better ground game can make the difference.
Still, Democrats have to be considered the underdog here. Indiana hasn't gone blue since 1964 in LBJ's landslide year, and Republicans won by roughly 510,000 votes in 2004. Still, if we apply our 80-20 split on the self-selecting new Obama registrants (80% Obama registrants, 20% McCain) and a 75% turnout rate (newly registered voters vote in higher rates than regularly registered voters), then Obama just added approximately 318,000 votes in Indiana. Now the challenge is to get about 100,000 existingly-registered Bush voters to switch to Obama, approximately 4% of the roughly 2.5 million Indiana voters from 2004.
We'll be back in Indiana before the end, we suspect, as this could be one of Election night's great dramatic stories. Locals in Lake County predicted a long night, especially as Republicans have resisted early voting centers in Gary and Hammond, Democratic strongholds and the 5th and 6th biggest Indiana cities.
My smashed laptop in tow (and really, what a great debate hosting effort by Belmont University, once again, it was awesome to have five different people flatly refuse us access to even a restroom after we'd had to sit for hours behind a 14-car pileup on I-65), we're already at Barack Obama's Dayton, Ohio rally, and we're headed toward the Palin rally in Wilmington later this afternoon.



206 comments
This is absolutely amazing that Indiana is in play. Excellent work on this On the Road series, Sean.
Nice legs.
Nicely done. I hope that you do one on Dayton, Ohio, my old stomping grounds.
Michelle Obama's coming to Rochester on Monday! Can't wait.
Mark my words: IN will be blue come November 4th.
Hey Nate, we're not "Indianans," we're "Hoosiers"! Thanks for the coverage--it's exciting to have Indiana in the news. I was at Obama's Indianapolis rally yesterday and it was great ...
Nate-
Love the site, but I cannot take anyone seriously when they refer to people from Indiana as "Indianans." That term does not exist. We are called "Hoosiers."
whoops sorry, that should have been Sean instead of Nate
Democracy is sexy.
Sean and Brett... Great work! we love it. I too am a Hoosier and full of hope for my state where I was born and raised to go BLUE. That would be so exciting. I need to relax a bit though and stop reading all night long. I got myself so worried about Mc Cain releasing an ad!! no... Take care and safe travels
Hi Sean,
Any word on what the ground game is planning to combat election fraud on election day? Is it part of the discussion they're having? I've been canvassing in PA, and it isn't believed to be an issue there. I hope the attitude is different in some of the more heavily purge, aggressively voter challenging states.
Hmm, the slideshow photos seem to be more grainy/lower resolution than previously. Any idea why?
1) Yep. Nice legs. When I led my Young Democrats 25 years ago in Orange County CA, in the Reagan years, girls like this weren't volunteering. I think many young Democratic guys need to thank Barack for bettering their chances.
2) I want more details on the debate debacle.
Wow, you're really sore about the hospitality there. Must've sucked.
Is this true? McCain's terrorist ads backfiring?
LINK TO STORY
I'm going to have to agree with the "nice legs".
Hey Sean,
I take it from the article that things have not changed regarding the McCain offices. Are you still not being allowed in to them?
Sean, God love you, but we're Hoosiers, not "Indianans"
matt: yeah, I'm getting the same pixeliness (is that a word?) as you. But it's weird, because the picture of the tank at the bottom of the post is clearer than the one in the slideshow.
The fact that Indiana is now a toss-up when GW won it my 20 points in 2004 says a lot about both Obama and McCain. This is why I think Obama will win in a landslide.
In 2004, Kerry was working hard to hold traditionally blue states. This time around, its the Repubs who are working hard to defend their turf.
cool! I'm from Louisville KY which New Albany is part of the Louisville metro area. It's good to see you so close to the bluegrass state!
Obama will win Louisville and maybe Lexington in KY but that's about it, unfortunately. I'm hoping IN goes Blue and it's very possible :)
Has McCain started to play defense at all in Indiana. If it's left uncontested I think Obama has a shot to win. If McCain has to direct resources to Indiana, I think Obama wins. Good news all around. Now, if I could stop thinking about the wide-scale illegal voter purging...
Virginia went from "toss up" to "Leaning Obama" on RCP today!
The momentum is building.
RCP adds PPP VA
One more poll in CO should push that state to "leaning Obama" on RCP as well.
With VA, that puts Obama at 277 EV!
She's hot!
Wonder if Nate got her number....
Writing in about the "Indianan" thing too. You're not alone. I almost canceled my subscription to the NYer when they used that term. And in the Season 4 opener of The West Wing, Toby doesn't know what a Hoosier is either:
http://communicationsoffice.tripod.com/4-01.txt
Otherwise, you're doing a great job! I'm addicted to your blog.
Obama Rally in Dayton, Ohio
http://us.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2
Nate, just FYI: Folks in Indiana don't like being called Indianans. That's just awkward and, if you said it to someone in Indiana, you'd probably get a really weird or even irritated look. We're "Hoosiers."
The state of denial of Republican officials is just weird. I think it's fairly normal for volunteers to pump themselves up by passing around stories of how bad the other side is doing, but a county vice-chair? And making claims to a member of the press, who unlike your volunteers, can take the time to go and check?
It's just weird.
jeremy said...
She's hot!
ha ha
I miss Inkstain, where is he?
Anyone know of any new state polls today other than that VA one?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_el_ge/voter_purges
I wish Nate would write about the link above. I'm sure it's difficult to figure out what to write exactly. Bottomline: The only way the Republicans will win this election is if they steal it! I'm a realist, never a conspiracy theorist, but I believe this 100%. Ohio is the best example. There are somne states where new registrations have closed Republican advantages to about zero, where all things being equal 2008 would be close to a tie. The Republicans can take their chances in those states, but there are a couple where the Pubs are FUBAR. Best example, Ohio! Bush beat Kerry in 2004 by 119,000 votes. There are 666,000 newly registered voters in Ohio, primarily Democrats. This can't be overcome! If Obama wins Ohio GAME OVER. So what do the "by any means necessary" GOP party do? They have to destroy the voting process to have a chance. By purging voter registrations, they can do tihs. People don't know they've been kicked out of the voter rolls until it's too late. Whatever happens Nov 4th will stick. I've heard of counties in Ohio where the voter rolls have been purged with people being kicked off by a greater number than new voter registrations. Much of this is likely corrupt and not legitimate. By November 4th it's too late. The reason the Republican party would be willing to go this far IMO is it's the only way they can win this time. Apparently it happened plenty in 2004, but to nowhere near the extent they're doing it this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
war hussein obama said...
Rasmussen: Is The Electoral Dam Breaking for Obama?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_larry_j_sabato/is_the_electoral_dam_breaking_for_obama
gene ha: "20 Hours in America" is one of my favorite WW episodes. The scene when they find out they're in another time zone and missed the flight is one of the funniest moments in the entire series.
RCP is a Rethuglican whoor. It posted the VA PPP +8 and then waited for a long time before it acknowledged that Obama was +5.1 in the aggregated polls. Somebody at RCP was trying, desperately, to find a bogus poll, or an excuse, to keep from declaring VA a blue lean.
Remember folks, Sean is "On the Road", not Nate.
Well, it's certainly fun to see you writing from my town, New Albany! The campaign is indeed active here, working hard especially on weekends to get the word out about Obama. Yesterday we drove to Indianapolis to see Obama speak, and let me tell you, Hoosiers are fired up about the possibility of a Democrat carrying our state. We're so close, and I think we can do it!
tiffanytaylor.wordpress.com
Aturi:
Any word on what the ground game is planning to combat election fraud on election day? Is it part of the discussion they're having? I've been canvassing in PA, and it isn't believed to be an issue there. I hope the attitude is different in some of the more heavily purge, aggressively voter challenging states.
Election protection is definitely being taken seriously here in Virginia, and the campaign is aggressively recruiting lawyers and law students to be part of the team on Election Day. (The Virginia Democrats have been doing this for a while, and had a lawyer available for each precinct as far back as 2004.)
I'd be surprised if there wasn't an equivalent effort in Pennsylvania. It doesn't always go through the same channels as the regular volunteer activities. Apparently there's a strong nonpartisan effort there, too, that was active even in the primaries.
RCP has Obama's EV count @ 277 is that new?
Does anyone know when the Supreme Court is supposed to announce their ruling on Troopergate?
Legs!!!
Palin to drop the puck at the Flyers home opener on Saturday. Come on Philly fans - you know what to do!
So we're not supposed to use "Indianans?" Who knew we'd learn so much more from this site!?!
We should be so lucky...
So, Sean, any chance your road trip is going to make it out to the East Coast? You probably already know that because of your yard sign post, you are a god to all the campaign staffers I know, and I can assure you you'd get some fine hospitality here in Virginia.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think the proper term is "Hoosiers" not "Indianans."
SEAN
so sorry that those Bemont folk were so 'unchristian' toward you.
keep up the good work.
BTW - here in central FL, the county election offices got swamped by late voter registrations. Both Volusia & Flagler Counties reported they were backlogged & expecting more by mail since all they required was a Monday, 10/6 postmark.
They said they were going to have to work hard to try to get them all processed in the next 2 weeks before early voting commences on the 20th.
They also confirmed that with 19% absentee votes & 18% early voting in Volusia County in 2004, they were anticipating closer to 50% of all votes to be cast BEFORE Nov 4th here in central FL.
So we are already banking Obama votes by absentee ballot now since all you have to do is request the ballot to be mailed out.
Come on down to Central FL - even Team Obama is sending Paul Tewes to work out of Tampa on GOTV to make sure we go BLUE by enough votes this time to ensure the election will not be stolen away.
Hey, I love your on the road series. Great work.
One thing: please stop trashing Belmont. It doesn't really bother me, but.... why bother?
It's the whole bitter thing, I guess.
You're better than that.
It's such ridiculous sleaze that the Republicans do election after election. Virtually every American citizen over 18 should be able to vote with the exception of felons in some states. Illegal aliens and non citizens would rarely if ever find their way in the ballot box. Somehow they're able to use thes possibilities to get millions scared to vote or convinced they're somehow not registered properly and create a pain in the ass to vote. Screw them!!!!
NamVet - yup.
After they posted the PPP numbers from VA a few hours ago.
Of course, Indianapolis has registered %110 of its population to vote!
ACORN = OBAMA = FRAUD
People denying folks a bathroom break are mean.
I suspect the McCain campaign is pure chaos and dysfunction. Aside from winning a few news cycles they have no actual ground game. The GOP people are bluffing because they are operating on their own. Team McCain are of no help.
That means Obama needs to hold onto PA and VA and it's game, set, match. Sweet.
Quick how to on posting links using the <A> tag.
Format:
<a href="PASTE LINK HERE">DISPLAY TEXT HERE</a>
Example:
<a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com">538.com</a>
Above I used HTML codes for < and >. If you really used them, the above example looks like this:
538.com
Servius,
Need to register 110% so we can overcome your fraudelent voter suppresion tackets. Rather Rovian of us isn't it.
Indiana is in danger of massive election fraud. The New York Times puts it on a list of states illegally purging voters by the THOUSANDS. Everyone needs to demand their rights as a voter, and be informed!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/us/politics/09voting.html?ref=politics
What exactly happened at Belmont? I'm very curious to hear the whole story, as opposed to these little tidbits. Is there a blog about that somewhere? Thanks
That tactics
Great write-up Sean. I like how you get in and get the real story from the on-the-ground volunteers as opposed to the TV surrogates. Also, its nice to see that not all of us political wonks are geeky-looking nerds ;-)
Indiana on the brink is GREAT NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!
Eric said:
"Virtually every American citizen over 18 should be able to vote with the exception of felons in some states."
_________________________________
Every American citizen is legally able to vote that is over 18, except in some states felons. It differs from state to state. California allows people with felony convictions to vote, provided they are not incarcerated or on parole. Florida pretty much completely disenfranchises former felons. I think you have to petition to get your vote back and they hold a hearing.
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Hey there, yard signs can WORK !
I have been fortunate enough to be able to buy the styrofoam ones for $6/pop here in central FL when they are available.
700 went out the door of New Symrna Beach DEM HQ in a few hours last week alone.
In my neighborhood, 2 weeks ago NO signs for Obama, 1 for McCain. An HOA where no yard signs are allowed. But we can put them in windows for short periods of time [like the last month of an election].
I put mine up last week. Within minutes neighbors asked where they could get signs or bumper stickers.
Now I already have over 6 homes in a neighborhood of 100 proudly displaying OBAMA/BIDEN prominently in their front windows.
No more McCain so far. Also plenty of others asked for bumper stickers for their cars.
That has led to numerous late registrations for the DEMs [everyone thought they were the only DEM in the neitghborhood or city], and I have helped bank several absentee ballots by mail for Obama because people know I am an active DEM/Obama supporter.
Suddenly, we have open enthusiasm for the Dems & particularly Obama in this historically GOPer region of central FL.
Yard signs in neighborhoods can lead to GOTV just as effectively [maybe more so] for converting low-info or persuadables IMHO.
Rather than knock on their doors, they come to me. I then send them into the DEM HQ for the final close of the deal since most people have no idea where to go for assistance.
Neighborhood 'offices' identified by 'yard signs' can be extremely effective in assisting GOTV.
I was skeptical before, but now I am sold that it works when done subtely. Most people told me that if I had knocked on their door as a cold call, they would have been much less inclined to talk to me about politics.
Just like with over-anxious clerks in stores who can 'hound' a consumer, many folks - especially the elderly & females in general - prefer to be left alone until they are ready & then they want to make the approach to get asistance.
FWIW
I posted this in the last thread but important:
War Hussein Obama said...
Todd trying to take the fall in troopergate
October 9, 2008 11:10 AM
War Hussein Obama said...
October Surprise = TROOPERGATE
sounds like if Todd Palin meeting with Palin aides to get a trooper fired is the EXCUSE to preempt the report and take the blame off of Sarah Palin.
This thing is going to be pretty damn bad news for Sarah.
If Indiana can bring you great news---Obama is in great shape.
war hussein obama said...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/09/politics/main4511568.shtml
Todd trying to take the fall in troopergate
October 9, 2008 11:10 AM
war hussein obama said...
October Surprise = TROOPERGATE
sounds like if Todd Palin meeting with Palin aides to get a trooper fired is the EXCUSE to preempt the report and take the blame off of Sarah Palin.
This thing is going to be pretty damn bad news for Sarah.
what ???
is this real ????
click on post a comment and follow the thread on pop-up
You must be registered to vote.
In my opinion, you should be a stakeholder in the country to vote. That means you should have a job or own property.
Bth the attorney general of the US is opening a federal investigation of ACORN and their illegal practices.
The problem with ACORN seems to be that they pay their people to meet a quota of registrations, so people trying to make extra $$ try to stuff in obviously false registrations. There's no evidence that this actually leads to people voting illegally.
yeah real joe, its for real. Todd is saying the whole thing was just him and sarah wasnt involved to preempt the investigative report.
Its gotta be bad if he is fessing up to the whole thing on the eve and the McCain campaign and lawyers are putting it out there ahead of time for damage control
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You can only read them in the box that pops up when you click "post a comment". At the top and bottom of that box where they have the comment count, you click "newer" and then the next set of 200 comments are displayed. Continue until you get to the end.
Jack B. You have got to be kidding. So all those unemployed citizens who rent an apartment should not be able to vote? Real American of you.
omg
I think this site should be careful of posting negative blogs and comments...It's obviously biased towards Obama (which I'm cool with), but we don't want to give people the opportunity to start picking it apart.
you can also right click on post comment and 'open link in new tab' - doing so rather than have it in a pop up window, it'll be in a new tab with the refresh button and such.
RWD,
Exactly. I doubt there's a sinister plot to have people coming in election day claiming to be Mickey Mouse or Julia Roberts.
I've read that in the past fifty years, exactly one person has been caught trying to vote twice.
"Jack B. You have got to be kidding. So all those unemployed citizens who rent an apartment should not be able to vote? Real American of you."
It's not about being American (he's not), it's about getting the Republicans to win. Similar to how Ann Coulter says women shouldn't allowed to vote, because if they weren't the Democrats would never win (except maybe this year!). They don't care about democracy, they just want power.
@Matt
Don't worry about us Flyers fans. We'll rock the place with a chorus of boos. This stunt is not going over well at all in Philly.
Philadelphia fans have a reputation to live up to.
That means you should have a job or own property.
And what about retirees in senior living apartment facilites?
So what happened in Belmont exactly? Denied restroom access, smashed laptop... what the hell?
The people need a full report on just what happened at Belmont.
For the record, the only person I know who went to Belmont for college was so miserable she dropped out after a semester, so maybe that's just the kind of place it is...
Also, "Hoosiers."
Finally, Legs.
***DCM***
Where are you???? I am in Orlando and am waiting for my button to wear everywhere for Obama/Biden, where can I pick up a sign to put up in my window? You can see my house from a major pass thru road and when you turn in the neighborhood so EVERYONE would be able to see it, cause well, I am so cool. Can you say where I can find some stuff. New Smyrna is kinda far (gas prices suck as I live in US ha!). Name some cross streets... and I do read almost everyone's blog every day, but don't tell my boss...AND why are you called Hoosiers? I have heard the term but didn't know that was the "formal" name...
Glad to see Jack be Nimble admit that he is un-American. And also a telling sign of desperation that he is openly advocating disenfranchising American citizens.
Based on some of the pics Brett has posted (and especially the one that leads this post), we need a fashion mag to do a "hottest" edition from the campaign trail!
/girl at top of post definitely qualifies
"Starting October 11 RCP says they will no longer include any "partisan" polling data (PPP-D, Democracy Corps-D, Strategic Vision-R)."
I guess they didn't like turning Virginia blue or the fact the SV agreed with everyone in Pennsylvania.
Knowing Philly, I'm surprised it's not "bring a puck, get a free beer" night. God, I'd hate to be in the Secret Service for this!
Not that Intrade is accurate, but check out state by state. Hilarious.
Michigan 92% Obama
Wisconsin 84%
Colorado 72%
Virginia 70%
Nevada 70%
Ohio 62%
North Carolina 55%
Missouri 55%
Indiana 48%
"Damning video of McCain losing his temper at a senate hearing. Worst part comes at the very end."
Obviously fake but funny as BEEP.
Matthew H said...
Knowing Philly, I'm surprised it's not "bring a puck, get a free beer" night. God, I'd hate to be in the Secret Service for this!
Philly fans will likely scream Hockey MILF! Hockey MILF! She's such a dud, she probably won't get it.
does anyone care about this troopergate bombshell?
lol
Fresh batch of screwy ARG polls:
Minnesota
O: 47
M: 46
Missouri
M: 49
O: 46
Montana
M: 50
O: 45
Ohio
O: 48
M: 45
New Hampshire
O: 52
M: 43
Texas
M: 57
O: 38
West Virginia
O: 50
M: 42
As always, please take with a massive container of salt.
Again -- How about a scenario analysis of Obama wins IN, wins election. This will be a state to watch, since this is the first swing state where polls close on election night.
If their returns come in promptly (and they may not, if things are close) and Obama wins, seems like that's the whole bag of marbles. It'd be great to have statistical analysis -- and this would be a source of great press, maybe, for fivethirtyeight?
I'm surprised the McCain-Palin ticket has the audacity to hold a rally in Wilmington.
@caleb: that video is a pretty obvious fake.
wtf up in WV?
War---can you believe it Todd tried to get this guy fired for years without Sarah knowing. Right.They truly believe the American people are stupid.
CORREA_JONES
I live in Edgewater, just south of NSB in Volusia County.
Sorry, I only use the localoffice, which is at least 60 miles from you probably.
The NSB office is on Canal Street in the old historic mailnland downtown district, just 1 block east of US1, just 2 blocks north of SR 44 if you are headed toward the beaches.
the telephone # is 386-423-8100 & alwats wise to check on stock before the trip because of gas prices - which are still way too high after IKE run-up.
maybe try the western offices of Volusia county like out in Deland, or the offices closer to you ?
many FL offices listed @
http://www.fladems.com/content/campaign_for_change
but there are many more localoffices not on that list too
here we are trying to also get rid of that crokk Tom Feeney & elect Suzanne Kosmas for congress.
that is also looking good !
is that WV poll accurate?
I'm surprised the McCain-Palin ticket has the audacity to hold a rally in Wilmington.
It's the audacity of hope.
Why does ARg even bother? If West Virgnia is 27 points more blue than Texas and 7 points more blue than Minnesota than I'd guess Sarah Palin has an IQ over 200 and Pigs fly.
As always, please take with a massive container of salt.
Actually those numbers look pretty reasonable - except for MN and WV.
McCain deserves to get DESTROYED for these Bill Ayers ads, my hatred for this man is soaring to George W. Bush levels. He is a DISGUSTING person.
I like Obama's response ad. I saw it last night (I'm in southwest Virginia.)
WV: surprise, surprise
fellow rednecks in WV gone crazy ?
joey, those numbers from WV are accurate. But ARG is notoriously inaccurate, so make of it what you will.
Re - ARG
GREAT Numbers. The only real questionable one is Minnesota.
Otherwise Obama within 5 in Montana and within 3 in Missouri are great and okay respectively.
Obama up in Ohio by 3 is about right.
Obama up 9 in New Hampshire is with other polls.
And WOW Obama up 8 in West Virginia!!!!
Those are descent ARG Polls, but no way he is +8 in WV and only +1 in MN.
Do you have a link?
That ARG poll on WV, ouch! But as matt rightly added, take with a massive container - not pinch - of salt
There's no way Obama could be +8 in West Virginia and only +1 in Minnesota.
Boy, the Troopergate report must be pretty bad if the best response they can come up with is that Sarah Palin was such a weak executive that her husband, who had no official position in her administration, was able to abuse the power of her office to pursue a personal vendetta and keep her in the dark about it.
Shawn - link...
ARG
TBender said...
I'm surprised the McCain-Palin ticket has the audacity to hold a rally in Wilmington.
It's the audacity of hope.
Are you serious? They're trying to play mind games by showing they can get rallies in California and now Delaware???
Somebody needs to inform the GOP that Pat Buchanon and Ron Paul can get 20% of the country to fall head over heels for them too ie Sarah Palin. The problem is the other 80% of the country that thinks they're scary as hell. The most passionate rallies you find in politics are often the niche candidates. Big freakin' deal. Buchanon is confused as hell right now. He's a smart man, but right now he sees himself in Sarah in many ways and can't bring himself to face reality. The two reasons McCain has imploded in the polling in the last month are Palin and the economy. Anyone that thinks it's just the economy are delusional. I'd actually suggest Palin is his biggest problem. more than the economy. More than Obama even.
OK, I know Nate still wants to use them, but ARG is losing all credibility. They are not a political polling firm, and are not even a public opinion polling firm. They run mostly commercial marketing polls and only add the political questions at the end of their omnibus polls. The nature of their polls will influence heavily who even stays on the line long enough to hear the political questions.
ARG should be completely ignored...IMHO
is there a link for this?
That west virginia poll is totally mind blowingly insane
I just can't believe it
Sean, great reporting. sweet writing. and, though clearly the nightmare foray to Belmont University will never be jake with you, for your readers it's played out as brilliant and funny narrative. i really nice counterpoint to all the on-cameras thanks to whoever is hosting debate/election event of the week.
as a thank you for your insanely high level of work, all of us, every reader of fivethirtyeight should be sending a role of toilet paper to Belmont University's provost.
October 9, 2008 11:51 AM
"Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...
War---can you believe it Todd tried to get this guy fired for years without Sarah knowing. Right.They truly believe the American people are stupid."
And in the same testimony todd stresses how close he and sarah are. But she was in the dark? LOL
Jack-Be-Nimble:
"In my opinion, you should be a stakeholder in the country to vote. That means you should have a job or own property."
Fortunately, we don't have a system of government like that. Or last, not since the late 1700s.
Obama by 8 in WV??. More than Ohio???
That´s a joke.
Palin is in Wilmington, OHIO! not Delaware!
that ARG WV poll is ALL WRONG
as i posted on vacons forum
here is the problem with this poll
Democrats (55%)
Republicans (35%)
Independents (10%)
20% dem advantage?
always wise to read the internals & not just the toplines for every poll release.
for instance the YouGov tracker released today appears to show a tight race with O46, M43 as the topline [O+3]
but the next line is O51, M46 [O+5] with 'leaners'
that is the # that most of the pollsters release after they 'push' to lean
sounds about right, but YouGov model is also an internet sample even though it is well controlled & relatively stable.
it does show trends fairly well all through the campaign cycle so far, and the internals are valuable for data mining
These ARG polls look like Zogby Interactives. I mean, come the f*%k on, Obama is doing better in WV than in MN?
Palin is in Wilmington, OHIO! not Delaware!
That makes more sense.
(But given the campaign "strategy" so far, you really did have to wonder...)
I love the +8 in WV and it'll probably make for a good bit of news on the TeeVee but I don't trust it when coupled with their other results (like Obama only up +1 in Minn.)
the Minnesota poll is no big deal.
Obama only started advertising heavily there last week.
If you just count the "safe Dem" and "likely Dem" states on the current map, Obama has 278 EV. That scenario gives Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Indiana, Missouri and Nevada to McCain.
Of course, on this date a year ago, electoral-vote.com's map looked like this, so it's not chicken-counting time just yet.
McCain has been outspending obama by almost 3 to 1 in Minnesota.
war hussein obama - Dems do have a huge ID advantage in WV. That's not the problem with the poll.
Minnesota isn't as screwy as you might think. McCain was +1 in the latest SurveyUSA poll, so ARG isn't quite all on its own. But you can all look at the other polls on the right hand side of the screen as well as I can.
Neither is WV. The last pollster to poll West Virginia was Rasmussen, on 24th September, but that only gave McCain +8
I'm from Louisville and I wish Obama would do a rally in New Albany to give an opportunity for his substantial Louisville support to come see him.
McCain contrary to popular belief has not pulled out of Michigan and has actually (in conjunction with RNC) doubled his advertising in the state.
Biggest news story on the tube is the Newsweek cover "mustachgate". Republicans upset that the her facial hair was not covered up. It does not get any better.
Those Minnesota and West Virginia do not pass the smell test. Texas also seems a little ridiculous. The others seem fine.
Whatever. ARG has no shame. Weren't they the ones bashing Nate's methodology during the primaries?
GALLUP tracker not out yet, but NOTE the new article upon GALLUP today:
'Obama’s Race May Be as Much a Plus as a Minus'
so much for the 'bradley effect'...
@ http://www.gallup.com/poll/111049/Obamas-Race-May-Much-Plus-Minus.aspx
Thank you for the wonderful service you are providing with fivethirtyeight.com. I look forward to your commentary as much as I do the projections.
I am concerned that the malicious character attacks on Barack Obama with their racial subtext might have the effect on Election Day of negating Obama’s lead in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, given the racism that exists in certain geographic regions of those and other states.
Is it possible to take the so-called Bradley Effect into account by adjusting for some predictable number of people that will tell pollsters they intend to vote for Obama, and then vote against him? I believe that this subterfuge is the only hope that McCain has left, other than getting Republican operatives ready to suppress the minority and student vote on Election Day.
i had no idea it was that huge
Polls Confirm Obama Won Debate
Two additional polls confirm the instant polls that showed Sen. Barack Obama winning his second debate against Sen. John McCain:
USA Today: Obama 56%, McCain 23%
Rasmussen: Obama 45%, McCain 28%
Oh please, Sean, tell us all about Belmont. I know it's not really germane but it sounds like such a good read.
Gallup predictions?
O 50
M 42
dcm,
you're misinterpreting the bradley effect.
Gallup's article that you cited in no way refutes or expresses it as a possibility.
dcm,
you're misinterpreting the bradley effect.
Gallup's article that you cited in no way refutes or expresses it as a possibility.
As others have pointed out, Democrats have a huge party ID advantage in states like WV and KY, they just don't vote for Democrats on the national level.
The issue with ARG is that none of their individual polls by themselves are that bad, but they are so inconsistent with each other that it makes no sense.
Gallup Prediction
52 O
40 M
I'll eat my hat if Obama wins WV but loses MN (or MO, for that matter)
VANESSA
you are WRONG !!
did you even read the article ?
the bradley effect does not exist as it is propounded by stoopid taking heads
For what it's woth...
Morning Call PA Tracker
Obama - 51
MCain - 38
pa john how does that compare to yesterday?
ACTUAL GALLUP
O 52
M 41
NO change
"My Fellow Prisoners" --- Barack Obama must win this election. He really just MUST. McCain/Palin are disgusting human beings.
@dvdmsgr
But look at that map
It was wrong in two places
Kerry lost Iowa and Ohio - but he only had a 1% lead in each.
Of the two tied states Bush won one and Kerry won one.
If you look at their map now - Obama would win even if were barely Dem state and tied state went to McCain.
I'll take another +11 on Gallup. That's for sure. Especially when combined with Research 2000's +12 single day for Wed.
Looks like Gallup is unchanged
52-41
Sean, any comment on this NYT story on the removal of voters from registers in several swing states? It has me very concerned.
From Rasmussen:
"Voters say Barack Obama beat John McCain in Tuesday night’s presidential debate 45% to 28%, but they also think McCain is better prepared to be president than Obama by an 11-point margin.
Over one-quarter of voters (28%) didn’t pick either man as the winner of the debate, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey taken Wednesday evening.
Sixty-one percent (61%) say McCain is prepared to be president, while 50% feel that way about Obama. While 28% say McCain isn’t ready to be the chief executive, 43% say that of the Democratic nominee.
After the first debate between the presidential hopefuls on September 26, 36% thought Obama won versus 33% who saw McCain as the winner.
Nationally, Obama has been gaining ground steadily in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll ever since the turmoil on Wall Street began dominating the news.
Only 10% of voters in the new survey say they did not watch any of the debate Tuesday night. Fifty-five percent (55%) say they watched all of it.
Among those who watched all of the debate, Obama won even more decisively 57% to 29%.
Both men and women declared Obama the winner of the second debate – male voters by 10 points, women by 22.
But, putting the debate performance in perspective, both men and women think McCain is better prepared to be president.
While men are evenly divided on whether Obama is prepared or not, 66% say the Republican is ready, but just 25% say he is not. Among women, 52% believe Obama is ready, while 56% believe McCain is. Thirty-eight percent (38%) of women voters do not believe the Democrat is prepared to be president, versus 31% who believe that of McCain.
Even 36% of likely Obama voters say McCain is prepared to be president, while just three percent (3%) of likely McCain voters believe Obama is ready.
In a survey in mid-September, 63% said McCain is prepared right now to be president, while 44% said the same of Obama. Forty-five percent (45%) said Obama wasn’t ready to be in the White House.
Republicans were less enthusiastic about their candidate’s debate performance Tuesday night than Democrats. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of GOP voters say McCain won, while 70% of Democrats say Obama won. Unaffiliated voters gave Obama the edge 47% to 17%.
Seventy-eight percent (78%) of African-American voters and 41% of whites said Obama was the winner. Thirty percent (30%) of white voters declared McCain the winner, with nearly as many undecided.
In a survey taken after the first debate, voters said they trusted Obama more on all 10 major issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports, including the handling of the war in Iraq.
Voters with family in the military and relatives or close friends serving in Iraq gave the edge in the latest debate to Obama by double digits but are evenly divided on whether or not he is prepared to be president. By more than 30 points, they believe McCain is ready.
Fifty-two percent gave moderator Tom Brokaw good or excellent marks for his performance, but 12% said the longtime NBC newsman did a poor job moderating the debate.
In a survey right before the debate, 62% expected Brokaw to be neutral as moderator, but 25% said he would try to help Obama".
unchanged
"Is it possible to take the so-called Bradley Effect into account by adjusting for some predictable number of people that will tell pollsters they intend to vote for Obama, and then vote against him? I believe that this subterfuge is the only hope that McCain has left, other than getting Republican operatives ready to suppress the minority and student vote on Election Day."
People are going to tell you that there is no such thing as the Bradley Effect. They may well be right, and even if there is, it's probably almost nothing. But, of course, the very nature of the problem means that you can't measure it. And there are no previous returns to go on because, of course, Obama is the first AA to run for the presidency. All we've got to go on is the primaries, and Nate showed pretty comprehensively that there was no Bradley Effect - if anything, there was a REVERSE Bradley Effect (and a Dem primary is exactly the kind of place that you'd find a Bradley Effect - racists feel that they have to hide their hostility).
Prior to the Bush victories in '00 and '04, WV went Republican only in landslide years ('84, '72, '56) going back to before the Great Depression. Lots of registered Dems in WV.
vanessa,
that's +1 from yesterday
Anyone else find all the Hoosiers complaining about the name "Indianan" while calling Sean "Nate" both ironic and amusing?
(By the way, I'm a Michigander, not a "Michiganian".)
Sean, any comment on this NYT story on the removal of voters from registers in several swing states? It has me very concerned.
Nothing personal Leighton, but you're about the 50th-7th person to bring that story up. If they have a comment, bugging them about it in every tenth post isn't going to make it come out any faster.
I think the most satisfying polling of the last couple weeks has been the surge in PA and the steady increase in VA.
Every time I see these ignorant pieces of crap at McCain/Palin rallies and their campaign trying to demonize Obama this campaign gets just that much more personal.
All these polls are the McCain campaigns chickens coming home to roost.
Vanessa -
Obama +1, McCain -1
It's been steady at Obama up 9-13 for over a week.
Hey Vanessa, err its Seje, right??
Fell kinda silly this morning about getting concerned about McCain's News last night?
Damn, listening to McShame in Wisconsin, he should have just phoned it in, he sounds like he just going through the motions, repeating the same old hackneyed harangue and lies.
NPR just had a teaser for syndicated show "Here and Now" for tomorrow. The gist being McCain and lobbyists think Wisconsin is in play and plan a major assault. I see nothing in the numbers to say that is true. Anyone>
also on the alleged 'bradley effect'
it probably NEVER existed as more than an illusion.
the theory was based upon the difference perceived between polling predictions on election eve & post-election exit polls.
but further analysis revealed that this theory was deeply flawed & based on presumptions that ALL the votes were cast on Nov 4th
in fact in CA when Mayor Bradley lost a close race for governor & created this 'myth', he closed strong but trailed earlier.
MANY absentee ballots were cast in advance and heavily favored the white candidate.
Bradley won at the polls on election day - but lost in the end due to the banked absentee ballots weighting down the average.
so a myth was born based on flawed presumptions/exit polls that failed to consider early voting.
same thing will probably happen in this election IMHO.
not only is Obama banking many votes now while his #'s are high, but with undercounting of AA turnout, cellphone only, GOTV & other variables it is almost inevitable that exit poll results will be inacurate because of those reasons listed above.
bet money on it - all the old rules no longer apply
fortunately, Nate/538 is trying to adjust for those uncontrolled variables in his predictive model
go Nate !
Wow. McCain actually brought up Palin stopping the bridge to nowhere. He really is out of it this morning. I think campaigning is starting to wear him down. That's too bad. I was hoping he would be bright and shiny when Obama sent shivers down his spine when the Indiana and VA results start to pour in election night.
haha matt, yeh it's Seje
and absolutely.
Woke up at 3 Am in a Nyquil haze, checked drudge and politico, same at 5:30 AM and finally saw the ad.
J Martin had a headline And the "News" is..Ayers.
He must have felt silly as he changed the lede to link to another item he was reporting on.
Need to hear the whole story on the laptop. I mean, maybe I missed it, but it's driving me nuts to just hear these hints!
As for voter fraud, I sure wish they would talk more about all the bogus mailings McCain sent out in OH and FL.
Help, I need my 538 poll-crack fix!
I agree with DCM. I'll promise you this, any money spent in Nevada and Pa by McCain is wasted.
Wow. Just saw this. Apologies if it's already posted. McCain is really slinging the mud. It's one thing to have Hannity and the McCain surrogates pull these stunts, but another thing to make this a central fixture in the campaign:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfJ7YSXE5w
I can't say for sure, but I think (I hope) it will backfire.
Is McCain an better or worse campaigner than Bob Dole? He's really terrible. Did you all see him this morning in Wisconsin? That guy is a disaster as a public speaker. You combine him with Tucker bounds on MSNBC, I have no idea who could listen to their dribble between the two of them and say yeah I'm voting for that guy.
Seje,
Wow, you are really on the edge of your seat!
I really did thin it was going to be bigger than a new Ayers ad, but not a game changer. McCain's camp just seems clueless and increasingly politically tone deaf (see updated mortgage plan!).
I don't know if I am correct about this, but certainly the 'Shy Tory effect' and I think the 'Bradley Effect', mainly refers to exit polls rather than pre vote polls.
I am a bit confused by the trackers today, Ras down another tick, to Obama +5, Gallup0 maintaining an 11 point gap. Thats a pretty big divergence. Before I chalked some of the divergence in the polls to people not having decided yet. I am not quite sure what to put it down to at the moment. Just house effects?
I love this!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081009/pl_afp/usvoteobamarednecks
I'm listening to McCain on CNN, live, and I actually think the guy BELIEVES all that he's saying. Amazing. It's too early to feel sorry for him (O hasn't won YET) but I'm starting to. :-/
markymark,
It is mainly just noise, random fluctuations within the MOE.
I'm watching McCain in a townhall format at the moment.
Whoever started spreading that McCain was some sort of townhall master is an idiot. He can barely keep a train of thought for more than 10 seconds.
Markymark---I think we need to stop looking at this stuff so closely----think it is important to look at longer term trends---one day does not a trend make. But we are all pretty much junkies so it is tough to do that.
Gallup Tracking: 10/9
O 52
M 41
Steady as she goes...
"Rednecks for Obama".
"Whoever started spreading that McCain was some sort of townhall master is an idiot."
If it was a democrat then they are not an idiot. It was a brilliant way to set expectations, and nearly all the media bought into it.
I'm the biggest Obama supporter their is, but I do respect McCain. I know he's run a viscous campaign, but I have no doubt its tearing him up having to run the kind of campaign he's running. Putting his wife on the stump to tear down Obama, ridiculous.
His campaign is a farce, and for the good of the country he should stop the race bating character assassinations, fire Steve Schmidt and the entire right wing neo-con mud-slinging groupies surrounding him and go down in style. Tell Sarah Palin to go back to Alaska and run solo.
Give it up McCain, you don't need to turn your campaign into a hateful right wing smearfest. The country will forgive you if you turn the ship around before some violent bigot gets liquored up, watches a Palin rally and goes NI@#R hunting with his shotgun.
Tell the right wing to go to hell with their intolerance and bigotry. It will all be over soon.
liberal_defender_of_freedom said...
I'm watching McCain in a townhall format at the moment.
Whoever started spreading that McCain was some sort of townhall master is an idiot. He can barely keep a train of thought for more than 10 seconds.
He's an old man that's been through a lot. He's having to try to keep up with Obama in this sprint to the finish. He's way behind and can taste defeat. I imagine it's really difficult to work the circuit at this point for him. Today was his worst performance I can remeber since the green screen back in June. He's been awful today. He sounds like he's reading a sript and doesn't want to be there.
Blogger Matt W said...
"If it was a democrat then they are not an idiot. It was a brilliant way to set expectations, and nearly all the media bought into it."
Good point.
In theory, about 1 out of every 20 polls should be an outlier outside the margin of error, simply due to random chance.
It seems that ARG's niche in the world of polling is to provide all those outliers, so that other polling firms don't have to.
markymark,
If you look at the 4 trackers that have been in the field a few weeks, the Diageo poll and the Gallup poll are more volatile, and the RS2000 and Rasmussen less so. Rassmussen has been Obama (50-52) and McCain (44-45) for nearly 2 weeks. Unless there is a shift there tomorrow, I would say the last 2 days are just normal movement within the MOE. Right now Gallup is +11, RS2000 is +10, Diageo is +6, and Rasmussen is +5. It averages out to around 7-8 points, where it has been since the 1st debate.
I don't respect McCain.
He was a bad student
He was a bad soldier
He was a bad husband
He used Cindy's money and Keating's influence to get elected as a pawn for Keating from a state he hadnever been to, until he decided that he'd let Keating get him elected form wherever Keating chose
Democrats and Republicans dislike him equally. He's one of the least liked people in Washington
He has no area of expertise
He can't give a speech
He cna't debate
He's willing to be used as a man-whore if it can get him elected
He used his POW experience for his own gain
Why exactly am I suppose to like him?
He's not good a
markymark said...
I don't know if I am correct about this, but certainly the 'Shy Tory effect' and I think the 'Bradley Effect', mainly refers to exit polls rather than pre vote polls.
I am a bit confused by the trackers today, Ras down another tick, to Obama +5, Gallup0 maintaining an 11 point gap. Thats a pretty big divergence. Before I chalked some of the divergence in the polls to people not having decided yet. I am not quite sure what to put it down to at the moment. Just house effects?
No, it's mostly based on party movement. Pollsters who adjust for party are staying around +5, pollsters who don't adjust party have skyrocketed to +11.
In spite of the usual conspiracy theories, the obvious conclusion is that a lot of people are leaving the Republican party, probably due to embarrassment with being associated with McCain and Palin. This means Rasmussen et al are overweighting Republican votes.
Internals on ARG polls:
MN:
M 46% O 47%
Democrats (38%)
Republicans (32%)
MO:
M 49% O 46%
Democrats (36%)
Republicans (36%)
MT:
M 50% O 45%
Democrats (37%)
Republicans (35%)
NH:
M 43% O 52%
Democrats (31%)
Republicans (32%)
OH:
M 45% O 48%
Democrats (38%)
Republicans (38%)
TX:
M 57% O 38%
Democrats (35%)
Republicans (40%)
WV:
M 42% O 50%
Democrats (55%)
Republicans (35%)
---------------------
What I mainly want to know is where these were gathered randomly or whether ARG actually weighted Party ID to these numbers - and if so, where did they get them?
OH:
M 45% O 48%
Democrats (38%)
Republicans (38%)
Way off!!!
527 action
Change to Win hits McCain on healthcare
The labor federation Change to Win will drop about a million pieces of mail ripping McCain's healthcare stance to members in swing states, an official there says.
The mail, which attacks McCain's suggestion that healthcare deregulation should follow the model of finance, is pretty direct: "George Bush and John McCain: Leaving working Americans SICK and BROKE," it says.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Change_to_Win_hits_McCain_on_healthcare.html?showall
As someone who grew up in Wisconsin, I had always thought Indianians were "basketball playing weasel freaks," but maybe my memory fails. Nice story about Indiana. It'll be wild if Obama can win the state.
OK ARG is a joke.
They are not in the business of getting accurate public opinion or political numbers. In fact, they are doing these polls pro bono. Their methodology is incompatible with getting accurate samples for elections.
Ignore them
Anyone know anything about the nightly poll dumps in BO's intrade entry?
It's very obvious when McCain talks about his healthcare plan and/or his buy-up mortgages plan that he doesn't understand what he's talking about. He's terrible at selling the plans, in large part because he doesn't understand the benefits and objections to them. Bill Clinton and ROnald Reagan were great at that part of politics. Obama is slightly above average at it, though sometimes he talks too cerebrally. McCain is awful at it. This is why he has no chance of winning anybody over at this point. He doesn't know how.
Eric,
You are wrong. From what I've read and heard, he's pretty good at gambling (not just in casinos) and was good at chasing women. Oh and has a pretty good temper. Many guys do not excel in those areas.
Eric,
You are wrong. From what I've read and heard, he's pretty good at gambling (not just in casinos) and was good at chasing women. Oh and has a pretty good temper. Many guys do not excel in those areas.
I'm listening to McCain's stump in Wisc. He is crossing lines every day. This guy is embracing populist fascism.
I am going to go out on a bit of a limb here, but I am pretty sure that ARG is the only polling firm that does not ask a single political question in the first 10 minutes of their polls! They run marketing surveys and ask the political questions only at the end. Who the hell has the patience to go through all that?
You took I-65? Dude, seriously, who told you to do that? Sure, it looks great on a map but anybody in Kentucky could have told you to stay away.
I'll bet that pile-up was in Kentucky, probably in the Death Strip between E-town and Bowling Green.
State legislator Larry Belcher just died in a bad crash on I-65 Monday night, man. It's lethal.
Very glad and relieved you survived uninjured.
On the ground here in Wisconsin I do not get the sense that there is much enthusiasm for McCain at all. The telling number for me will be how many people he draws out in La Crosse. Obama was out there last week and drew 20,000. McPalin came to Waukesha, which is the heart of Republican country. Look, McCain will win the Milwaukee suburbs. Obama will win Milwaukee and Madison by a ton. They'll probably be close to even in the Fox Cities (Green Bay, Appleton, Oshkosh). And they should be even in La Crosse. If Obama wins La Crosse or the Fox Cities by a decent margin, it's a blowout. Wisconsin is so tough for Republicans because they can never overcome the margins in Milwaukee and Madison. Obama should rack up HUGE numbers there, especially with same-day registration. Wisconsin is a lost cause for McPalin. If they throw resources here, that's great news for Obama fans.
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