10.15.2008

Obama Dominating Among Early Voters in Five Swing States

SurveyUSA has a lot of good habits as a pollster, and one of them is breaking out the results of early and absentee voting in states where such things are allowed. So far, SurveyUSA has conducted polling in five states where some form of early voting was underway. In each one, Barack Obama is doing profoundly better among early voters than among the state's electorate as a whole:

...    Poll    % Voted                  Non-Early
State Date Early Early Voters Likely Voters
====================================================
NM 10/13 10% Obama +23% Obama +6%
OH 10/13 12% Obama +18% Obama +4%
GA 10/12 18% Obama +6% McCain +11%
IA 10/9 14% Obama +34% Obama +10%
NC 10/6 5% Obama +34% McCain +5%
We should caveat that these are not hard-and-fast numbers. Estimates of early voting results are subject to the same statistical vagaries as any other sort of subgroup analysis, such as response bias and small sample sizes.

Nevertheless, Obama is leading by an average of 23 points among early voters in these five states, states which went to George W. Bush by an average of 6.5 points in 2004.

Is this a typical pattern for a Democrat? Actually, it's not. According to a study by Kate Kenski at the University of Arizona, early voters leaned Republican in both 2000 and 2004; with Bush earning 62.2 percent of their votes against Al Gore, and 60.4 percent against John Kerry. In the past, early voters have also tended to be older than the voting population as a whole and more male than the population as a whole, factors which would seem to cut against Obama or most other Democrats.

Now certainly, early voters tend to be your stauncher partisans rather than your uncommitted voters -- just 1-2 percent of early voters in 2000 and 2004 reported that they would have voted differently if they'd waited until election day. So it's unlikely that John McCain is actually losing all that many persuadable voters to the early voter tallies.

What these results would seem to suggest, however, is that there are fairly massive advantages for the Democrats in enthusiasm and/or turnout operations. They imply that Obama is quite likely to turn out his base in large numbers; the question is whether the Republicans will be able to do the same.

Keep in mind that there are veteran pollsters like Ann Selzer who think that most of her colleagues are vastly understating the degree to which youth and minority turnout is liable to improve in this election; Selzer's polls have been 5-6 points more favorable to Obama than the averages in the states that she's surveyed. So while these early voting numbers could turn out to be something of a curiosity, they could alternatively represent a canary in the coal mine for a coming Democratic turnout wave.

522 comments

Trenchman003 said...

If the masses here really are calling for the head of Mule Rider, that's way more damning as anything he's ever done.
Trust me, I may not post much, but I've scoured through probably every post on this site and a half dozen more and Mule, while I disagree with a good deal of what you say, you and VA Conservative are clearly the class of the "Obama is not the savior the left thinks he is" crowd. You can't even compare being incendiary (which btw Mule, you really should sand off some of the rough edges if you want your points to be taken more seriously) with being a hopeless shill (DarrienCrow) a true Hannity/Rush/Savage slurping dittohead (OzJohnnie) or just a flat out phony (He-my personal vote for most detestable since it mocks the 10 years I actually spent really serving in the Marine Reserves including a real deployment to Iraq in 2003).
So yeah, Mule, you should probably cut out the obvious invitations for people to accuse you of race baiting--it weakens what you have to say. But for those of you who are literally advocating to beat his ass, what makes you any different than the Palin events which you (rightfully) decry as lynch mobs masquerading as candidate rallys?
Oh and let me be the 214th commenter to say to Kenyada--well played.

sfergus483 said...

Add to debate gimmicks and responses

5) We need divided government
Response - How's that worked for everyone the last two years? That's more of the same. A new president deserves a chance to have his agenda given a fair hearing in Congress, and if the public doesn't like it, they can reject it in two years.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Just heard through the grapevine:

McCain state organizers in MN and WI have been told to fill up the gas tanks and head down to IN and OH by the weekend. The offices reportedly will be cut to one in each state capitol.

Will follow up with information as I get it."


Does this mean everything will be ridding on them plucking off PA now or is there some other realistic large EV state they are going to target?

Colin said...

The only way McCain can win now is if the Republicans are able to rig the election through fraudulent voting machines, deregistering voters etc. The Dems better have a strategy to deal with this considering we've known how big a problem it was since 2000.

jqb said...

But it does have some justification.

No more than banning speaking Obama's name generally because it "could be intimidating" to someone.

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Wearing a T-shirt is equivalent to yelling fire in a theatre?"

The First Amendment protects ONLY your freedom to speak out on the issues confronted by your government.

If your t-shirt said, "Get Out of Iraq", then it is protected speech.

If your t-shirt said "McCain/Palin '08", then it is not protected speech. A political party is not your government.

I don't like it, but that is the essence of the argument for electioneering rules.

Wayward Son said...

North Carolina has laws against electioneering, but they don't include a ban on clothes or jewelry. You can vote while decked out in Obama gear from head to toe, if you want. You can't attempt to actively influence other voters by (for example) pointing at the name Obama on your shirt, or discussing him out loud.

Just like NC's automatic online tabulation of registration results, their one-stop registration, the electoronic+paper record requirement, and the no-excuse absentee voting.. this sensible law shows that North Carolina is not the stereotypical backwards Southern state it is sometimes portrayed as being.

Next stop.. vote by mail.

TBender said...

i'll be completely happy seeing Obama break 270 with no states being close enough to contest that would change the outcome, everything else will be meaningless on Wednesday Morning after the election.

Second that.

Rachel Bevilacqua said...

I'm a Georgia voter and I participated in Early Voting last week! The location was very convenient, just a block from my house in the downtown area near the college campus and shopping area. When I arrived there was a line of about a dozen people before me, and a similar number arrived after me while I was there, but the procedure was very fast and orderly and the line moved quite quickly.

The atmosphere had an aura of almost religious significance. People were solemn but very cheerful, many bringing their children to witness this historic vote. One woman's registration was not found in the computer, and a hush fell over everyone. No one moved or said a word until the election workers had taken the woman aside to a private office to thoroughly investigate the matter, as she was on the verge of tears at not being able to vote, which did not seem strange at all, given the sense of historic significance rising from the occasion.

And this is going to go on EVERY DAY right up until Halloween! I think the Republicans are going to be very, very surprised. A lot of people have apparently always wanted to vote, they just couldn't get Election Day off work to come out to the polls. With Early Voting, the genie is out of the bottle and the people's voices are going to be much louder.

jqb said...

If the masses here really are calling for the head of Mule Rider, that's way more damning as anything he's ever done.

Strawman.

Trust me

Uh, no.

You can't even compare being incendiary

You're the only one making that comparison. "At least he's not Hitler!" is the lamest defense.

Kennyb said...

Voice of the midwest, it is completely wrong to say that "The First Amendment protects ONLY your freedom to speak out on the issues confronted by your government."

Your First Amendment rights protects all kinds of other speech as well, although commercial speech does get less protection than political speech. Electioneering restrictions are permitted because they are generally considered reasonable time, place and manner restrictions imposed by government to limit (but not silence) political speech for a legitimate governmental purpose (to prevent voter intimidation at polling places).

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Does this mean everything will be ridding on them plucking off PA now or is there some other realistic large EV state they are going to target?"

PA is in idle for McCain at the moment per my source. They are in disbelief that five straight polls of decent weight are averaging +13 for Obama.

So, OH and IN is the turf they are trying to win and protect. They may send more troops into WV, too.

RWD said...

Basically, McCain has to set up a last-ditch firewall and defend red states now. The fantasy of flipping blue states is over.

slicknickshady said...

I predict Obama is back up 10 tomarrow in Gallup.

Foregone Conclusion said...

Guys, Mule Rider isn't that bad. Why are you setting him up as an uber-conservative straw man?

jqb said...


The First Amendment protects ONLY your freedom to speak out on the issues confronted by your government.


You're a fucking ignorant cretin who obviously has never read the First Amendment, nor paid attention to any of the Supreme Court cases on the matter dealing with, say, pornography.

Matt said...

Doesn't anyone else think that Obama is communist? He sounds like it to me.

jqb said...

Guys, Mule Rider isn't that bad. Why are you setting him up as an uber-conservative straw man?

Nice strawman, concern troll.

SP said...

The CNN poll results from VA is overly optimistic, IMO. What I see on the ground is a lot closer split, although I live in Northern VA (or shall we call it communist country?).

There is still A LOT of closet racism here, and some not-so-closet variety as well, and at the end of the day, I think that a lot of the so-called undecideds will break for McCain. That, and the huge number of military families in the region that vote overwhelmingly Republican will make it very, very close.

In the end, I think that Obama can pull off Virginia because of his ground game. But it will likely not be called until late in the day.

DaWolf said...

@matt

Doesn't anyone else think that Obama is communist? He sounds like it to me.

No. And go and actually read about communism as you clearly don't have a clue.

John Smith said...

@william

Try the Supreme Court

Christopher said...

A Communist? That's funny. What's more troubling is that the vast majority of Americans simply do not understand what Socialism and Communism are.

jqb said...

limit (but not silence)

Ahem. "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, ...".

It would be nice if people, including judges, would just read the damn amendment.

John Smith said...

Matt
Is China Communist? Is Russia Communist? Where are Communists?
Are you in the last century?
Obama is a pragmatist not a Communist?

Charles Crook said...

"So, OH and IN is the turf they are trying to win and protect. They may send more troops into WV, too."

Soon the battle lines will fall back to Georgia, North Dakota and Montana. Then, when those states fall, the final defense of Wyoming.

Meanwhile, McCain is still looking for the holy hand grenade of Antioch.

Alyssa said...

Mule Rider just likes to stir the circle jerk pot in here because he's the ONLY ONE LEFT who has any sort of discerning opinion. Balance.... night and day, love and hate, it's good for you. He should smooth out his roughness but so should all you emo yappy liberals.

It's gone from everyone trying to out nerd each other to INTERNET BRAWLS. Fucking hell.

Voice of the Midwest said...

"You're a fucking ignorant cretin who obviously has never read the First Amendment, nor paid attention to any of the Supreme Court cases on the matter dealing with, say, pornography."

Sir, relax. I gave you the nickel explanation of the First Amendment. I did not refer to subsequent rulings beyond that inalienable right because those are interpretations of the basic inalienable right to speak freely against one's government.

Get it?

You can't wear your Nader '08 t-shirt into the polling place. Sorry and a recommend Prozac for control over your loose cannon potty mouth.

PorridgeGun said...

Colin said...

The only way McCain can win now is if the Republicans are able to rig the election through fraudulent voting machines, deregistering voters etc.


If you're a Republican, that's called Plan A.

Archaeopteryx said...

I note that RCP has just moved FL back into the Toss-Up camp. I hope that does not indicate a trend there.

Alyssa said...

Capitalism + grand larceny = Communism?

J/K

Vanessa said...

This debate tonight is going to be tough.

I'm a bit nervous as I expect McCain to throw a bunch of gimmick curveballs.

Kennyb said...

You're right, jpq, and you clearly have a sharper mind than Oliver Wendell Holmes.

Charles Crook said...

McCain is apparently not buying more ad time in Wisconsin:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/15/mccain_pulling_ads_in_wisconsin.html

jqb said...

I gave you the nickel explanation of the First Amendment

You fucking arrogant asshole. I don't need an explanation from a stupid ignoramus like you who is completely ignorant of both the text and the case law of the the first amendment. Your claims about it are simply WRONG.

Marx was right said...

A Communist? That's funny. What's more troubling is that the vast majority of Americans simply do not understand what Socialism and Communism are.

No kidding. Obama is no more a socialist or a communist than McCain is.

Rush must be telling his listeners that liberals are socialists and commies. That's the only reason I can think that "socialist" and "communist" are back in the lexicon as "debatable" political points about politicians.

Hell, Obama barely passes muster as a liberal. He sure as shit is no socialist or commie.

Michael said...

JOE THE PLUMBER.

If McCain wants to win tonight. Talk about the redistribution of wealth that Obama told a small business owner like Joe the Plumber yesterday.

And getting nasty like Clinton did face to face with Obama wouldn't hurt either.

Anything less is a loss in my book!

Foregone Conclusion said...

"Guys, Mule Rider isn't that bad. Why are you setting him up as an uber-conservative straw man?

Nice strawman, concern troll."

Have a look through previous threads, and you will find that I am no 'concern troll', whatever the hell that may be - I am a surefire liberal. You, however, appear to be jumping around on people's inocuous comments like a rabid ferret. Back off. I am only trying to preserve a modicum of tolerance on this comments section.

*Takes deep breath*

Matt, because of the banking bailout, it seems that we are ALL socialists now. Who'd have thought it?

Kennyb said...

Funny that you should mention the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, Charles, as John Cleese apologized to Michael Palin yesterday for no longer being the funniest Palin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMyNk8J1c8g

niedda said...

October 15, 2008
US: Obama 50, McCain 41 (LABloom-10/10-13)

By Eric Dienstfrey

Los Angeles Times / Bloomberg
10/10-13/08; 1,030 LV, 3%
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews
(story, results)

National
Obama 50, McCain 41

jqb said...

You're right, jpq, and you clearly have a sharper mind than Oliver Wendell Holmes.

It's jqb, moron, and I am right regardless of how sharp Holmes' mind was ... and it did take a pretty sharp mind to craft such a grossly dishonest argument as in his dictum -- which has been harshly criticized by other sharp minds.

jqb said...

I am only trying to preserve a modicum of tolerance on this comments section.

By launching strawman criticisms? Bullshit, you're just stroking your own ego as some sort of "reasonable" person as opposed to all those other "unreasonable" ones.

niedda said...

Latest CNN/Time Magazine/Opinion Research Corporation polls.

Colorado, 10/11-14 (9/21-23)
Obama 51 (51)
McCain 47 (47)
n/c, no swing

Florida, 10/11-14 (9/28-30)
Obama 51 (51)
McCain 46 (47)
n/c Obama, -1 McCain = 1pt Swing for Obama

Georgia, 10/11-14 (no trendline)
Obama 53
McCain 45

Missouri, 10/11-14 (9/28-30)
McCain 49 (48)
Obama 48 (49)
+1 McCain, -1 Obama = 2pt Swing for McCain

Virginia, 10/11-14 (9/28-30)
McCain 53 (53)
Obama 43 (44)
n/c Obama, -1 McCain = 1pt Swing for Obama

markymark said...

I think McCain will do something tonight. I don't know what, but I don;t think it will work, because anything surprising right now can be spun as erratic.

jnorthrop said...

@niedda--

Georgia, 10/11-14 (no trendline)
Obama 53
McCain 45

Really?! Whoa.

al said...

I live in NC, and all indicators say Early Voting Begins tommorow (thurs), at which time I plan to be there. So where are these numbers coming from?

PorridgeGun said...

So, basically, if economic confidence goes up a couple of points, McCain gains...At least according to Gallup's screwy polling.

Does that make any sense?

Forget the fact that Republicans are jumping ship on daily basis, and both McCain and Mooseburger are lying their asses off and whipping up racial hatred at every campaign rally.



Nice.

Kennyb said...

j-q-b? More like a-s-s. While you're at your strict constructionism, why not do something about that "Congress shall not" part and tell us about the horrors of the incorporaton doctrine. And go Gitlow yourself while you're at it.

niedda said...

InsiderAdvantage
Mode: IVR

Florida 10/13, 612 LV, 3.8%
Obama 48, McCain 44

Nevada 10/13, 506 LV, 4%
Obama 49, McCain 46

North Carolina 10/13, 474 LV, 5%
Obama 48, McCain 46

West Virginia 10/13, 522 LV, 4%
McCain 49, Obama 47

Blame said...

There is nothing wrong with comunism. Jesus was a comunist.

Sadly comunist states got as close to comunism as most christians got to christianity. That is not at all.

"From each acording to his ability. To each acording to his need". "Love thy nabour like yourself".

If only human beings could follow such rules. They can't so we live as best we can, with capatalism.

It is indeed possible that Obama is a comunist and he has allways asserted that he is a christian, but if so they are personal beliefs. I can hope that he intends to give acording to his ability, and that he loves us all.

jqb said...

all you emo yappy liberals

Another arrogant ego-stroking asshole. Rather than characterizing people, try engaging the content of their posts.

Voice of the Midwest said...

"You fucking arrogant asshole. I don't need an explanation from a stupid ignoramus like you who is completely ignorant of both the text and the case law of the the first amendment. Your claims about it are simply WRONG."

Oh, well...

I guess the states of Illinois, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and the Supreme Court of the United States should rescind permission to me to practice law in their respective states and chamber.

Chill out. The basic rule in First Amendment law outlined in a nickel explanation as I provided is that you are protected no matter what to question the doings of your government.

Specific case law represent interpretations of the court and its ever changing pillars. All I provided was the basic explanation as basically instructed to me by likely the best Constitutional scholar in the United States - Lawrence Tribe.

You have to have a BASIC understanding of your rights before you can actually understand the perfect and oft-times inperfect rulings of the Supreme Court.

Good day.

jqb said...

While you're at your strict constructionism

You're barking up the wrong tree, dimwit.

Kennyb said...

@neidda

Could be "swings" or could be noise. 49-48 moving to 48-49 is nothing to get excited about.

jqb said...

The basic rule in First Amendment law outlined in a nickel explanation as I provided is that you are protected no matter what to question the doings of your government.

You could only have passed the bar due to incompetent examiners.

Foregone Conclusion said...

As I understand it, what VOTM is saying is that the right to criticise the government is almost inalienable under the First Amendment, but that there is a lesser restriction on other forms of political expression.

Kennyb said...

And you are just plain barking.

Kennyb said...

Thank you, foregone conclusion. THAT is certainly a reasonable reading of the post, and has the benefit of being true as well.

Kennyb said...

While we were busy sniping...new post!

Jason said...

I just finished making
a music video in support of Obama for President.

Just go to http://www.WeLoveToVote.com

or go to the youtube directly at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1IB-r6L_8s



The goal is to get a lot of exposure so maybe we can help persuade potential voters. Feel free to comment about what you think and please send the link to all of your friends and family. You can just tell them to go to www.WeLoveToVote.com If you take the time and send it to just a few people we can make it spread virally and may actually make an impact on what happens come Election Day. Thanks!

jqb said...

As I understand it, what VOTM is saying is that the right to criticise the government is almost inalienable under the First Amendment, but that there is a lesser restriction on other forms of political expression.

Again, he's WRONG. And he didn't just say "political expression"; his statement clearly implied that, for instance, there is no first amendment right to publish Tropic of Cancer.

Voice of the Midwest said...

JQB -

Civility, good sir. Civility.

A lot of good people have called you names within the past half hour. While I agree with their sentiment, I will not lower myself to the gutter in which you dwell.

I respectfully ask for your apology. You might recover an iota of respect among the rest of the folks here by doing so.

jqb said...

And you are just plain barking.

Hypocrite.

jqb said...

I will not lower myself to the gutter in which you dwell.

I respectfully ask for your apology.


Fuck you, asshole.

STepper said...

Voice of the Midwest - You were instructed by Lawrence Tribe? Me, too. What year? (I really doubt you went to HLS, but let's play man up.) I was HLS 1971. I had Breyer, too.

Adrian said...

William: I can think of two jobs she would be excellent at. Senate Majority Leader, to take over from the weak Reid and whip the Senate into passing Obama's health care plan, and Supreme Court Justice, to get someone up there on our side.

Darío said...

Matt is comnunist.

sfergus483 said...

Count me as someone who believes that the right to a free, secure and private vote is as or more sacred than absolute freedom of speech.

I also think anything that interferes with election day - like any dissemination of exit poll data before polls close, and release of voting results before they all close as well - should be restricted.

Canada had its elections yesterday. CBC wasn't even allowed to broadcast in the western part of the country when it began releasing results (some time after the first ridings in the east had closed) because their polls remained open. I don't regard that as a broach of freedom of speech.

Voice of the Midwest said...

JQB-

Sorry I embarrassed you in front of a lot of people who actually understand my initial explanation. I think I now understand why you couldn't understand the explanation now.

The words I used were often multi-syllabic and well beyond the four letter variety you clearly use in daily discourse.

Work on that temper. It will do you in.

VOTM

jqb said...

I really doubt you went to HLS, but let's play man up.

It's possible VOTM has suffered severe brain damage since. Certainly Tribe never told him that "The First Amendment protects ONLY your freedom to speak out on the issues confronted by your government."

jqb said...

Sorry I embarrassed you in front of a lot of people who actually understand my initial explanation

You have delusions of grandeur. And once again, your "explanation", while quite understandable, is WRONG.

sfergus483 said...

There is no chance that Clinton will become Senate Majority leader.

First, Reid isn't stepping down.
Second, Durbin wants to replace him when he does.
Third, Dodd wants the job as well.
Fourth, the job requires working with Republicans,
Fifth, no Senator who endorsed Obama in the primaries will vote for her for fear of retribution.
Sixth, the majority leader's job is organizational, not ideological, and means putting your own agenda second to your caucuses.

As for the Supremes Court - I hope Obama chooses justices in their
49s or early 50s, like Reagan, Bush and Bush did so they'll be around for decades.

Adam said...

@sfergus483

So you mean that there might be a compelling state interest in keeping polling places politically neutral to ensure a fair election process?

but...but...surely we wouldn't make exceptions to the constitution for compelling state interests, right?

:::rolls eyes at jqb's bloviating:::

jqb said...

Count me as someone who believes that the right to a free, secure and private vote is as or more sacred than absolute freedom of speech.

It doesn't matter what you believe, there is no such right in the U.S. Constitution.

jqb said...

:::rolls eyes at jqb's bloviating:::

I see, so it's bloviating to point out that it isn't true that "The First Amendment protects ONLY your freedom to speak out on the issues confronted by your government."

Adam said...

No, it's bloviating to natter on endlessly about how constitutional protections are inviolable (which is baldly false) while calling anyone who disagrees an asshole.

jqb said...


but...but...surely we wouldn't make exceptions to the constitution for compelling state interests, right?


The state always wants to make exceptions for its perceived interests, which are always deemed compelling. But the constitution provides a mechanism for making exceptions to it.

jqb said...

No, it's bloviating to natter on endlessly about how constitutional protections are inviolable (which is baldly false) while calling anyone who disagrees an asshole.

Gross mischaracterization.

sfergus483 said...

It has long been established that courtrooms can restrict free speech, including advocacy tshirts and posters and handing out flyers and so on. Are you saying that is also unconstitutional?

Clearly it, like restricting candidate advocacy at a polling place, has a basis in the Constitution.

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Voice of the Midwest - You were instructed by Lawrence Tribe? Me, too. What year? (I really doubt you went to HLS, but let's play man up.) I was HLS 1971. I had Breyer, too."

Went to Notre Dame Law School and won a Ralph S. Tyler scholarship to do 6 hours of Constitutional work under the master during the summer. I loved it. Summer of '91 and I lived with a friend in Somerville.

BTW, it is Laurence, not Lawrence. I make the same mistake at times.

jqb said...

Adam, I'd say that the sorts of rationalizations people like you engage in amount to bloviating. There are certainly good arguments for various pragmatic interpretations of the constitution -- e.g., the 2nd amendment can't be seen as giving a right to possess nukes -- but arguments such as VOTM gave, that the first amendment only protects speech about government action isn't among those good arguments -- they're just wrong.

Voice of the Midwest said...

JQB -

Apologize to Adam and give yourself a time out. You are beginning to look like Humphrey Bogart in "The Caine Mutiny".

Just because you do not agree with someone, it doesn't make them wrong. Nor does it make them bad.

Please, apologize to Adam and back off. It is getting uneasy around here.

jqb said...

It has long been established that courtrooms can restrict free speech, including advocacy tshirts and posters and handing out flyers and so on. Are you saying that is also unconstitutional?

Clearly it, like restricting candidate advocacy at a polling place, has a basis in the Constitution.


Only in the sense of John Marshall's argument that the constitution provides for judicial review. Or perhaps you would like to quote the sections of the constitution that provide this "basis".

grinningahmet said...

Vegas is giving 3-1 M, 1-5 O. Whatever you think about the accuracy of polling, that's significant.

jqb said...

VOTM: again, fuck you, asshole.

Adam said...

If by "rationalizations people like you engage in" you mean "the accepted standard of judicial review for rights restrictions", then I suppose you have me there. The Supreme Court and I do an awful lot of bloviating.

Worth noting: the state's interest is hardly "always" deemed compelling...in fact, only about 30-40% of the time in cases where such a standard is applied.

Adam said...

Oh nevermind. If you're going to go all the way down to denying judicial review, then I don't think there's much left to talk about. I think the ideological divide here is too deep to shout across.

jqb said...

If by "rationalizations people like you engage in" you mean "the accepted standard of judicial review for rights restrictions", then I suppose you have me there.

No, what I mean is the results-oriented behavior of pulling out of your ass whatever argument suits your ends regardless of its validity -- like VOTM's ""The First Amendment protects ONLY your freedom to speak out on the issues confronted by your government." which you've refused to comment on. My primary criticism was about that ridiculous claim. I also noted that Holmes' "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" was a gross mischaracterization of what he was referring to -- encouraging young men not to register for the draft -- and likewise as a characterization of wearing T-shirts. As I said, good arguments can be made for pragmatic interpretations of the constitution, but the ones offered here aren't among them.

Wesley said...

Whew. It got ugly in here today. Hard to read the good comments with some of these egos posting every two minutes flooding the board. New post soon hopefully, that tends to clean the slate.

jqb said...

Oh nevermind. If you're going to go all the way down to denying judicial review

I didn't deny it, fool, what I said was that it is Marshall's argument justifying judicial review on which the results of such reviews can be said to have a basis in the constitution, not some direct basis. I asked you for a citation of this "basis in the Constitution" for restricting clothing in a courtroom but you offer nothing but bloviation and a gross misunderstanding of my statement.

Voice of the Midwest said...

Oh, please...JQB...denial of judicial review? Really?

Move on. You have no idea what you are talking about. Just move on. But first, apologize to Adam.

His discussion has been cogent and well-defended. You, on the other hand, have resorted to name calling and the conversational defense mechanism of name calling and personal attacks.

For shame. Take some Prozac and apologize to Adam. Be a gentleman.

jqb said...

Worth noting: the state's interest is hardly "always" deemed compelling

It's always deemed compelling by the state, moron. Of course it's not always found compelling by the court.

jqb said...

Oh, please...JQB...denial of judicial review? Really?

No, not really, moron.

But first, apologize to Adam.

For what, his ":::rolls eyes at jqb's bloviating:::"? I'm to apologize to him for his insulting me?

Be a gentleman.

Fuck you, you pathetic hypocritical asshole.

Tony said...

It occurs to me that the early lean toward Obama is mostly a function of his strong ground game. With community organizers ("field staff") saturating all these states, the campaign has the capacity to push voters into the booths early. Many of these voters may well be people who would not otherwise vote, where it not for an Obama volunteer or staffer walking with them to the polling station or handing them an absentee ballot.

LJay said...

that whole map is gonna be blue
minus utah
to hell with utah

Roger said...

Doesn't anyone else think that Obama is communist? He sounds like it to me.

You clearly have either never listened to a communist talk, or have never listened to Senator Obama talk (or maybe both). Communists tend to rant, rave, and foam at the mouth -- try listening to old recordings of Soviet Russian leaders. Obama, on the other hand, is outstandingly calm and reasonable.

Frankly, I think a lot of people on the liberal wing of the Democratic party are going to be complaining in a year's time about President Obama always talking and listening to the Republicans, despite them being a minority. Obama's record shows that he's a pragmatist, always willing to adopt good ideas even from his political opponents, and keen on finding common ground wherever possible. He's about as far from being a communist (or any other sort of fanatic) as I can imagine -- he's non-partisan to his core.

What you're detecting is that he genuinely cares about helping people, especially those in need. But that's not communism (communist countries don't have a good track record of helping their people) -- that's called "compassion". And he's very pragmatic and consensus-building in the way he goes about helping people.

jqb said...

You clearly have either never listened to a communist talk, or have never listened to Senator Obama talk (or maybe both). Communists tend to rant, rave, and foam at the mouth -- try listening to old recordings of Soviet Russian leaders.

That is stupid on so many levels ... even more stupid than the comment it responded to, which was at least about content rather than volume.

jqb said...

he's non-partisan to his core

Um, he's a life-long Democrat, now leader of the Democratic Party, and built a 50-state ground organization aimed not just at electing himself but downticket Democrats. You're living in a fantasy land -- a rather fanatical one. Obama's a good guy, but not at all "non-partisan" -- fortunately.

Bandit said...

Kenyada,

Your post is inspiring. I feel so proud to be part of this movement in my tiny way. Yes We Can.

widmerpool said...

i voted early in GA. lot of early voting here in Atlanta.

Obama is going to have quite a lead built up in GA before election day.

even if McCain makes back some ground, this could be like CA was to Obama in the primaries. too many votes could be in the bank.

Valerie said...

Wow, Kenyada's comment really moved me to tears. Amazing stuff.

Wayward Son said...

niedda, is this a misprint? It doesn't seem to match the results I've seen elsewhere.

Virginia, 10/11-14 (9/28-30)
McCain 53 (53)
Obama 43 (44)
n/c Obama, -1 McCain = 1pt Swing for Obama

thereisnodog said...

"Now certainly, early voters tend to be your stauncher partisans rather than your uncommitted voters -- just 1-2 percent of early voters in 2000 and 2004 reported that they would have voted differently if they'd waited until election day."

Actually, pretty standard social psychology research says that the act of making a choice, such as voting, actually solidifies one's commitment to the choice. So voters are less likely to change their minds once they've voted.
So the level of commitment after the choice is only loosely correlated to the level of commitment before the choice.

thatmarvelousape said...

Communists tend to rant, rave, and foam at the mouth -- try listening to old recordings of Soviet Russian leaders.

Most of the communists I've known mostly droned on and on about the dialectic and commodification. Obama does not sound the least bit like a communist, and anyone who says otherwise is just displaying a lack of education. Wingnut conservatives don't understand that communism involves an entire epistemology and ontology. Taxing people and using it to fund government programs isn't "communism," and if it were, there are plenty of reasons to consider McCain a communist as well.

Lincoln said...

Latest poll shows Obama, a black man, winning the greatest percentage of white votes for a Democratic candidate since LBJ.

How insane is that?

Jen said...

Others have said, and it's true, early voting in NC doesn't start until tomorrow. Is that maybe polling on who intends to vote early? I haven't seen any corrections or clarifications yet.

Wayward Son said...

At least 5 people, including me, have clarified it.

The SUSA poll is referring to North Carolinians who voted via mail-in absentee.

Rafa said...

I am a human with a conscience. I am voting Obama.

Obama +100% over McCain among human voters with a conscience.

sftaxidriver said...

@kenyada
That was a beautiful post...thank you.

jqb said...

Latest poll shows Obama, a black man, winning the greatest percentage of white votes for a Democratic candidate since LBJ.

How insane is that?


It's the opposite of insane.

anthony said...

Nobama is gonna lose. Remember, Gore was up 11 points in the first week of October and Reagan was down by double digits on October 26th. Go McCain-Palin.

Kurt said...

Kenyada, wow. Very moving.


We all march to our own drum, but when we beat them together the world will hear.

Even if Georgia goes red, the rest of us will do our part to ensure your (collective) voices are heard.

Let's make this happen!

Doug in Mount Vernon said...

Wow....Kenyada, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that post.

This election has me more hopeful than I was in 1992. And as a young and stupid political newcomer, I was really excited. This is that times twenty.

I love my country. I love our people. Welcome, President Barack Obama!

facingreality57 said...

Kenyada - I hear you my brother, your comments have been circulated and are now posted on daily kos they are so moving and powerful!

I don't think people truly understand this season - the one spoken about in Eccl 3 that says there is a reason and season for everything under the sun. I have two granddaughters 3/5 who are engaged - I babysat this last week and they teased and fought each other until Obama came on the news at which point they started screaming Grandma - there is Obama - turn the TV up. As they sat intently listening to his speech - I cried. When he went off they wanted more. I ended up finding several speeches on YouTube and they were quiet until their parents returned - laughing and talking about what he said. They are 3 and 5!

I've watched the lines go on forever during the Texas primary/caucas and the Prairie View A&M students walk 7 miles to vote. This season is different - it can't be polled but it can be explained, and your voice lent credence to the battle.

Thank you and God Bless!

platanoman said...

Mccain campaign claims they are winning in absentee balloting, but how do they know?

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Thank you Kenyada for bringing tears to my eyes.

And facingreality--those two grandkids of yours are the "audacity of hope"

facingreality57 said...

Kenyada - I hear you my brother, your comments have been circulated and are now posted on daily kos they are so moving and powerful!

I don't think people truly understand this season - the one spoken about in Eccl 3 that says there is a reason and season for everything under the sun. I have two granddaughters 3/5 who are engaged - I babysat this last week and they teased and fought each other until Obama came on the news at which point they started screaming Grandma - there is Obama - turn the TV up. As they sat intently listening to his speech - I cried. When he went off they wanted more. I ended up finding several speeches on YouTube and they were quiet until their parents returned - laughing and talking about what he said. They are 3 and 5!

I've watched the lines go on forever during the Texas primary/caucas and the Prairie View A&M students walk 7 miles to vote. This season is different - it can't be polled but it can be explained, and your voice lent credence to the battle.

Thank you and God Bless!

Fleisch said...

Kenyada, fabulous post. Absolutely stirring. 538 gets a big audience, but this deserves an even bigger one, and a special spotlight from Nate and Sean.

lost my ocean said...

Kenyada, you've done my heart some good.

gsmikem said...

I live in Alabama and work in Georgia. Both states are going to stay red. I am not rooting for McCain or Obama. I think many people are going to be let down because Obama himself has said he will not be able to do what he wanted with taxes because of the cost of the bailout. Yet, even after saying that, his 30 minute sitcom stuck to the stump speach about cutting taxes for 95% of all Americans. I think he will get elected, and part of me hopes he finds a way to do what he has promised...but common sense says he will not.

Also, many anti-war people are rooting for Obama. Did they not hear him say he would do a troop surge in Afghanistan, go into Pakistan to find Osama, and if Iran doesn't stop with the nukes, he wants to fight them as well. Instead of Bush's two front war, Obama wants to have a three front war. I work on a military post, and that is actually good news for us, but not for the anti-war fools out there who believe Obama is a peace bringer.

Lastly, no president who has come into office during an economic crisis has been re-elected. I am voting Obama, and I urge anyone else reading this in the red states of Georgia and Alabama to vote Obama as well. A vote for Obama now is a vote for Republicans in 2012, and maybe we will have a better candidate than the liberal, John McCain.

Besides, who knows....maybe Louis Farrakhan is right, and Obama is the messiah...I don't think he is, but maybe I am wrong.

Lea said...

Obama's biggest group of supporters will have already voted during the early voting period. He may have a lead right now, but when voters turn out on Election day, there will be a surge of McCain supporters verses the small amount of lagging Obama supporters yet to cast their vote. Add to the list the inevitable advantage Republicans always have through absentee voting, and McCain will surpass Obama in the end.

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