10.15.2008

Obama Dominating Among Early Voters in Five Swing States

SurveyUSA has a lot of good habits as a pollster, and one of them is breaking out the results of early and absentee voting in states where such things are allowed. So far, SurveyUSA has conducted polling in five states where some form of early voting was underway. In each one, Barack Obama is doing profoundly better among early voters than among the state's electorate as a whole:

...    Poll    % Voted                  Non-Early
State Date Early Early Voters Likely Voters
====================================================
NM 10/13 10% Obama +23% Obama +6%
OH 10/13 12% Obama +18% Obama +4%
GA 10/12 18% Obama +6% McCain +11%
IA 10/9 14% Obama +34% Obama +10%
NC 10/6 5% Obama +34% McCain +5%
We should caveat that these are not hard-and-fast numbers. Estimates of early voting results are subject to the same statistical vagaries as any other sort of subgroup analysis, such as response bias and small sample sizes.

Nevertheless, Obama is leading by an average of 23 points among early voters in these five states, states which went to George W. Bush by an average of 6.5 points in 2004.

Is this a typical pattern for a Democrat? Actually, it's not. According to a study by Kate Kenski at the University of Arizona, early voters leaned Republican in both 2000 and 2004; with Bush earning 62.2 percent of their votes against Al Gore, and 60.4 percent against John Kerry. In the past, early voters have also tended to be older than the voting population as a whole and more male than the population as a whole, factors which would seem to cut against Obama or most other Democrats.

Now certainly, early voters tend to be your stauncher partisans rather than your uncommitted voters -- just 1-2 percent of early voters in 2000 and 2004 reported that they would have voted differently if they'd waited until election day. So it's unlikely that John McCain is actually losing all that many persuadable voters to the early voter tallies.

What these results would seem to suggest, however, is that there are fairly massive advantages for the Democrats in enthusiasm and/or turnout operations. They imply that Obama is quite likely to turn out his base in large numbers; the question is whether the Republicans will be able to do the same.

Keep in mind that there are veteran pollsters like Ann Selzer who think that most of her colleagues are vastly understating the degree to which youth and minority turnout is liable to improve in this election; Selzer's polls have been 5-6 points more favorable to Obama than the averages in the states that she's surveyed. So while these early voting numbers could turn out to be something of a curiosity, they could alternatively represent a canary in the coal mine for a coming Democratic turnout wave.

557 comments

Luke said...

Great news.

Robert said...

I wonder if early voters leaning Obama will convince GOP to double down on their GOTV campaign on election day or if it will make them stay home?

How/When will early voters be reported on election night? Will they be counted directly with their district, be added early (as soon as poll close) or on a later day?

NJ_Moderate said...

Not much surprise there given the dynamics of the campaign. By the chart, IA and NM will definitely be blue, NC red, GA likely red and OH leaning blue. I do think the shenanigans in OH by ACORN et al. will formulate a significant backlash against Obama in this state but I didn't think he would win it anyway. I am sticking with an Obama 291-247 victory (Kerry + IA + NM + CO + VA + NV). The race is probably at 5-6% right now since the three A's (Ayers, Abortion and ACORN) are causing some of the Independents to go back to their Republican roots. Even the 6.3% Dem advantage that Rasmussen is using seems slightly high as it will probably be in the 4-5.5% range come election day.

No doubt that Obama will win but it is going to be a rough 2 years since he is still going to have to deal with Pelosi and Reid.

Librocrat said...

These polls make me feel things. Funny things like hope and happiness. In America? I think not.

Nate, I see how you adjust for the youth and elderly vote, but how do you adjust for the rigged election vote? In Ohio, for instance, I expect a very high rigged election turnout this year that I don't think most early voting pollsters are accounting for.

NJ_Moderate said...

If turnout was higher during the early voting period in OH, I would be more bullish on Obama's chances but the light turnout indicates that there is still a substantial level of low-level support for the R's who will come out on Nov. 4th and (grudgingly) cast their vote for McCain. Looking at the McCain campaign, they are boviously more concerned about VA then OH which is probably correct as Obama should do better in the Dominion state.

dpldust said...

538 - The site that never sleeps...

******Republisthugs are trying to have voter rolls purged in OH, CO, VA and NC. They are trying to have early voters votes thrown!!!******

CALL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TODAY, BOTH DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN - - TELL THEM YOU WILL NOT TOLERATE THESE ATTEMPTS TO PURGE VOTER ROLLS AND THROW OUT LEGITIMATE EARLY VOTES CAST. REMEMBER THERE HAS NEVER - NEVER EVER - BEEN A SINGLE PROSECUTED CASE OF VOTER FRAUD.

This is all Republithug operatives filling out thousands of fraudelent voter reg cards and handing them in to ACORN - knowing full well ACORN must under all circumstances submit all voter registration cards to the Sec. of State - no matter what they believe. THIS IS THE LAW. The law is in place to prevent Rep or Dem activists from getting voter reg cards for the other side and not submitting them. (Another dirty trick Reps have tried in the past - - huge voter reg drives in heavily Dem districts and then throw out all the Dem reg cards.)

Reps are trying to steal this election - FIGHT BACK!

the iDiot said...

@ NJ_Mod: Add a 4th "A" to your list:

Appeals Court.

Full federal appeals court sides with Ohio GOP, says elections chief must verify registrations

PHILIP ELLIOTT
AP News

Oct 14, 2008 20:57 EST

A federal appeals court on Tuesday ordered Ohio's top elections official to set up a system by Friday to verify the eligibility of new voters and make the information available to the state's 88 county election boards.

The full 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati upheld a lower court ruling that Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner must use other government records to check thousands of new voters for registration fraud.

A three-judge panel of the 6th Circuit had disagreed last week, but the full court's ruling overturns that decision.

Ohio Republicans had sued Brunner, a Democrat. Her spokesman had no immediate comment Tuesday.

About 666,000 Ohioans have registered to vote since January, with many doing so before the contested Democratic primary election last March between Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton.


----------------------------------

Since the new registrants are overwhelmingly Democrats, this ruling can only hurt the Democratic ticket's chance of carrying Ohio.

kimmy said...

I love the poster who always spams the message:

"This is good news ... For McSame ..."

Lol ...

BTW, why is Nate not asleep ?

Also Joe Scarborough is bitching that Obama is "buying" the election ...

WTF is he talking about. All the candidates buy the elections. That is why public financing is $85 mil and NOT $0 mil ...

That guy can talk out of his azz sometimes ...

Fizz Byers said...

This is great news!! For John McCain!!!!!! http://www.popduds.com

JC said...

Exciting news, three thoughts jump to mind. What are the sample sizes? I hope early Democratic leads don't lead to complacency down the track. And lastly, Nate, are you up really, really late or really, really early. Pace yourself, there's still a debate on tonight - McCain's last roll of the dice...

kimmy said...

the idiot , that is so TRUE ...

The way things are proceeding we might as well put Ohio in the RED ...

cora said...

so much early voting should reflect in the LV polls which should therefore move in McCain's direction. Every early vote necessarely would subtract itself from the LV sample. Since Obama votes are predominant in early voting what is leftover should go increasingly GOP. I believe this is what is happening now. So (very slight)tightening of polls is reflecting also a passage from LVhood to AVhood of Obama's electorate. If early voting will, as I read somewhere, amount to 30% of the electorate someone will erroneously read the final opinion polls as Bradley Effect, fueling right wing ranting.

Nate, you need to take this into account. Opinion polls should consider AV as LV otherwise pollsters and exit pollsters will get it wrong.

John said...

What about the successful voter suppression efforts in Ohio?

cora said...

dpldust said...
538 - The site that never sleeps...

******Republisthugs are trying to have voter rolls purged in OH, CO, VA and NC. They are trying to have early voters votes thrown!!!******



Elections chief has time to fix and he will. No danger here of purging 600+k voters.

cora said...

Ohio democrats are respecting court decision and fixing
THE WERE PREPARED FOR THIS

"It is imperative that voters not be disenfranchised because of federal government red tape, misstated technical information or glitches in databases beyond the control of voters or the Secretary of State," said Brunner, a Democrat, after the ruling.

"That is why we will work with the federal court, even though we believe that the order goes beyond the requirements of (the Help American Vote Act)."

The long-running legal battle emerged from allegations of registration fraud in the crucial battleground state, namely accusing Brunner's office of "turning off" its process for the verification of voter registration while allowing Ohioans to cast ballots on the same day that they registered.

On Saturday, when a three-judge panel of the appeals court ruled against the Ohio Republicans, state GOP Chairman Bob Bennett accused Brunner of concealing fraudulent voter registrations in hopes of swinging the state to Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee.

"Jennifer Brunner continues to do everything she can to help her candidate," Bennett had said. "Her efforts to fight transparency and accountability in the voting process are shameful, and her actions to conceal fraudulent activity only serve to cast doubt on the integrity of this election. "

The majority opinion of the full court called Ohio's current system "essentially useless" and found it does "nothing to address the anti-fraud objective."

Brunner on Tuesday said she prepared for the court's "possible adverse decision" ahead of time by announcing plans to "further improve the statewide voter registration database."

Cin said...

I thought Kerry led in early voting here in Florida in 2004. Of course, he led in exit polls too.

Rick said...

I'll speak up as one of the "Unlikely voters" from Ohio. I haven't voted in years, but I registered this year for several reasons and chief among them is to vote in Senator Obama and do my absolute best to not allow in Senator McCain and Governor Palin as the implications of their policy intents scare me senseless. I'm also representative of the Cell Phone only crowd which if anything I bet is under-estimated.

I hear the many calls to not get complacent and while I fully agree with the thought, I don't find much reason to worry on that issue. There are a great many states with sentatorial races and those voting pro Obama/Biden in those key states are likely going to make sure they hit the polls for those races even if they feel that the presidential race is a lock. While that isn't an issue here in Ohio there are other hot issues in our state such as Issue 6, a controvercial casino item that should help get people in the polls statewide as well. There isn't "just" a presidential race going on and so long as voters remain focused on something that gets them into the polls, we should be able to cheer on President Obama on the 5th.

I have two comments for those that have paid more attention to the numbers game than I have until very recently. Nate, how do you and any other armchair pollsters think that the cellphone only households (which consists largely of younger single voters who have no need of a land line) will need to be accounted for in future years as they grow in number and thus skew the demographics available for polling?

Second, should there indeed be the massive tidalwave of Democratic turnout fueled by the Obama GOTV grassroots movement, how do you forsee this affecting future Democratic Party voting efforts that build upon the network that Senator Obama's campaign has built thus far? I personally see two key factors here. First is the experience and groundwork that has been laid so far during the course of the primary and then general election where the tactics and organization has been refined in what looks to be a very skillful manner. Second, there has often been talk of the youth vote turning out and taking charge of the country, but thus far it has failed to happen which has in turn fueld pessimism for future years. However, should a large turnout occur, particularly among the younger voters in an enthusiastic manner that shows that they do indeed have a voice how do you forsee that affecting future turnouts? If the lack of effect has fueled pessimism and created a self-defeating self-fulfilling prophecy, wouldn't there be a good chance that a successful year where strong change is brought about (assuming of course that Senator Obama can fulfill on his promises and turn around our country in a manner that matches the intent of those very youth voters) would build upon and further encourage that demographic of voters in future elections?

Brought to you by a hope for a Blue Ohio.

Dwade said...

Tonight will probably go a long way to determining how much the race will tighten. If McCain can land solid blows, he will probably make things much closer than if Obama duels him to a draw, as has been the norm so far.

The question becomes, will McCain's aggressiveness a) resonate with voters and b) will it leave him open to Obama's counter punches?

Shadowspecies said...

I just wanted to let those following the indiana situation know that a judge forced open the lake county early voting centers they were fighting about until the indiana supreme court deals with it.

Given the 3 areas where they opened the early voting satellites....i can tell you straight away its going to make a significant difference.

Justin said...

Wow. Those are some ridiculously good numbers. North Carolina is the one that jumps out at you the most - though with only 5% of the sample, it could be wildly inaccurate. Georgia seems in line with AA turnout so far.

Two things that would be interesting to be done with these numbers:

How much do these reflect the resources Obama vs. McCain have devoted to the ground game in each state?

Can we construct an approximate vote differential based on these? What will McCain have to make up on election day (in terms of vote numbers), what is the makeup of those who haven't voted yet, and therefore what are the odds w/ early voting taken into account.

It would be interesting to see some states where Obama already has a solid enough lead in early voting that overtaking him in day-of voting would be nearly impossible. Iowa seems the most likely for this to be possible in. Obama already has around TEN PERCENT of likely voters banked. It's entirely possible for him to build that up to 30 or 40% by election day.

Rick said...

Dwade said...
"Tonight will probably go a long way to determining how much the race will tighten. If McCain can land solid blows, he will probably make things much closer than if Obama duels him to a draw, as has been the norm so far.

The question becomes, will McCain's aggressiveness a) resonate with voters and b) will it leave him open to Obama's counter punches?"


I've got to go with a) it won't resonate with the persuadable voters as almost none of his attacks have managed to do that so far. b) It leaves him very open to counter punches as McCain has been telegraphing/re-using a great many of his stump line talking points in his debate attacks so far which means a prepared Obama already has a counter ready or can develope one quickly.

Brought to you by a wish for a Blue Ohio.

Ross said...

North Carolina early voting does not start until Thursday, October 16!!!

5% is quite an error.

bruce said...

Since the new registrants are overwhelmingly Democrats, this ruling can only hurt the Democratic ticket's chance of carrying Ohio.

This will damage Democrats, because many invalid votes will not be counted. Count all the votes! It's better to have duplicate, votes from non-citizens, underage people, non-existant people be counted then invalidate one valid vote. This is a Democracy!

niedda said...

R2K tracking same as yesterday 52 O

41 for M

Mark said...

I don't think this is too much reason to get excited. Early voting results are more a barometer of enthusiasm during the present election cycle. Those who are most excited to vote do so early. You risk becoming complacent if you expect these artificially high margins to hold on election day.

Ada said...

@Ross:

In-person early voting in NC doesn't start until the 16th, but mail-in absentee has been going on for a while, so it's not unreasonable that 5% have already mailed their ballots in

Edmund Edgar said...

Out of interest, what's the evidence that early voters tend to be more partisan than average? It sort-of seems like common sense, but it's not what seems to have happened in Florida in 2004.

"...Nor, counter to our expectations, do stronger partisans turn out to vote early at higher votes than do less partisan respondants. The estimates in Table 2 show neither an effect of partisan intensity - strong partisans are no more likely to vote early than Independents - nor of party contact..."

http://www.earlyvoting.net/resources/EVIC_APSA_2005.pdf

Alfonso said...

I wonder if there could an unfortunate catch here. Is early voting also going on for the congressional races? I hope so, because otherwise these Obama supporters might fail to cast their vote for their representatives/senators.

slicknickshady said...

I'm not worried about that stuff in ohio. It will be fixed. I think Obama will win OH, NM, IA, and OH. I think Obama will lose GA by 5%.

fred said...

I could kiss Ann Selzer, Ihave had hopes she was right, but now we have some limited evidence.

On another note, is Joe "I'm a republican" Scarborough the biggest most pompous windbag on the planet?

Finally, Zogby seems to be getting alternate good and bad days for Obama, noone else is. More p[roof Zogby is one crappy pollster and deserves the ZogbyLOL label.

Zogby is claiming to be "the best presidential pollster the last three elections" - looks like we need a study Nate!

Rick said...

fred said...
"Zogby is claiming to be "the best presidential pollster the last three elections" - looks like we need a study Nate!"

Because it's easy to be right when you have polls that cover every contingency?

Brought to you by a wish for a Blue Ohio.

fred said...

We may have just lost OH. I want to know who appointed the judge that decided this, he has to watch Fox. It is impossible to verify students, and the repubs know it. Let's hope this gets overturned today.

niedda said...

Obama will win Georgia

Dave-london said...

1. The numbers are so small that they dont really tell us anything. 30 people surveyed in NC have voted and they went 20/10 for BO? tells us nothing am afraid.

2.That JM loses OH wins election stat is just staggering. Especially when compared to the BOP loses OH wins election.

3. the race tighten the media cycles will do the frontrunner/undedog story. JM ability and honesty when he finally gives it up in his own mind will show through and the culture wars arent over - see the thread that got turned into an abortion debate.

Dave-london said...

1. The numbers are so small that they dont really tell us anything. 30 people surveyed in NC have voted and they went 20/10 for BO? tells us nothing am afraid.

2.That JM loses OH wins election stat is just staggering. Especially when compared to the BOP loses OH wins election.

3. the race tighten the media cycles will do the frontrunner/undedog story. JM ability and honesty when he finally gives it up in his own mind will show through and the culture wars arent over - see the thread that got turned into an abortion debate.

kwattles said...

"Canary in the mine" is an odd metaphor. That equates Obama's chances of a landslide with the gases that threaten coal miners. It might feel that way to the Republicans.

bizkid23 said...

This is great news!!!

FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

FreeThinker said...

Zogby may just have the cleanest data if he is not applying smoothing algorithms to "look credible". These are random variables that we are watching so intently, and random deviations do show up.

Alex S. said...

The Obama campaign is changing the way campaigns are done forever. Tactical stunts will get useless because you need to have a consistently good performance from the beginning of early voting to election day. October surprises will lose their meaning. I expect early voting to become more meaningful with each upcoming election.
While it is very early to look at the numbers, I agree with Nate that there is evidence that Obama´s turnout operations will be better. You could say, every voter not having voted already, is a vote you still can lose. I wonder though if this year´s exit polls will be skewed towards McCain if there are so many early Obama voters. This could mean that election evening might last longer than we expect, because we need to factor in early voting.
NJ_Moderate = Tad Furtado?

fred said...

"canary in a coldmine" can mean "leading indicator"

The canary died first, or lived first to fly away to a wonderful life.

DJShay said...
This post has been removed by the author.
tfitznc said...

Early voting in NC does not start until Oct. 16.

fred said...

Joe Scarborough will get fired or demoted after the election, he just sucks.

fred said...

You can vote absentee in NC, methinks.

Dave-london said...

I also wanted to say something about JM strategy, given he went for what some of us might have called winning a big blue one and i was for [playing the if i was JM game, am not supporting him]and its bombed in PA.

JM is far behind in many places so has to draw up the one path to 270 he thinks he can make. Given that it only happens 420 times in your Sim Nate can we have a thread about how JM gets there most often?

Bush -IA,NM,
Bush -IA,NM,NV +NH

The national picture is important in this. In the final couple of weeks with visits etc all you are trying to do is move a state towards you slightly from the national polls. You cant visit them all.

So a hail mary.

JM has to ignore the very red states that now look pink or purple or pale blue. ie NC,ND,WV,MO,IN.

Unless the national picture tightens by a long way he cant visit these states enough - there are too many of them therefore he cant win.

He has to focus on winning the media war and this debate and then visit OH,FL,CO,VA,NV or NH

When hes done that he has to go back to them. Get the most popular GOPs to them.

Basically he has to go all in with a pair or in football talk he's 0-3 and he has to take off a defender for a striker.

Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...

Early voting for Barack Obama is WONDERFUL NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!

Real Joe said...

fred said...
You can vote absentee in NC, methinks.


yes you can

fl dem said...

This is no surprise. . .early voting is vital to the Obama ground game -- it frees up resources in the last days of early voting and particularly election day. Encourage every Obama supporter you know to vote as early as possible!

Real Joe said...

Good Morning !

fred said...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14580.html

VOTE EARLY! GET TO THE POLLS EARLY!

"While the two campaigns Tuesday accused one another of trying to steal or suppress votes, experts in election administration are focusing on the old standbys: Faulty machines, questionable voter lists, last-minute litigation. "

Rachel said...

Not sure if this has been noted

M46
O48

Public Policy Polling

Rachel said...

Thats for Missouri!!!

fred said...

Rachel-

What state?

Rachel said...

Missouri

fred said...

MO in play is great news, it really expands the field in a way McCain just can't handle.

I look forwared to an AZ poll. A rumor exists that a paper did a poll those showed McCain up only 3, but it was supprssed and a second poll done.

Repubs are sending even more lying scurilious emails right now. These people have no shame!

Jeremy said...

According to Drudge, Ras has the race at 50-45 for the 3rd day running.

DoctorMcLovin said...

This is fascinating. Nate, thanks for everything you do. It looks like your model includes these as part of the regular mix (e.g. SurveyUSA OH 10/13). I would love to see you break out early voters again for us with two weeks to go and with one week to go. Given the role of early voting in Senator Obama's strategy it is very illumination to see how well it is working.

fred said...

Politcal Wire on MO:

"A new Public Policy Polling survey in Missouri shows Sen. Barack Obama has taken a small lead over Sen. John McCain, 48% to 46%.

Key finding: "A big trend between the two polls is increased Democratic unity in the state. Over the summer Obama was winning just 78-15 among voters in his own party. That's now up to 89-7. Obama has also cut down significantly on John McCain's margin with white voters. What was a 56-35 lead for the Republican with that group is now down to 52-42."

Recent polls from Rasmussen and SurveyUSA also show Obama with a lead in the state."

tfitznc said...

OT: Intrade this AM
O - 80.1
M - 20.0

Rachel said...

jeremy,
I think he's still linking to yesterday's poll.

fred said...

Ras will move Obama next week, all things being equal, as the repub convention weeks drop out of their party ID and they have already said those were the best weeks for repub party ID.

Jeremy said...

Rachel, it wasn't there last night

Jeremy said...

Actually, Rachel, you're right :-)

fred said...

PPP must have released pretty late. Political Wire did date stamp the poll as released yesterday.

fred said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Dave-london said...

A quick final thing amongst the national trackers what is BOs % for White people?

In the UK there has been some comment of; the well many in The US wont vote for an ethnic minority candidate, but given we are into landslide territory I was wondering how the white vote for BO compared to Kerry and Gore and Clinton.

fred said...

WE can tell which pollstrs are biased republicans - they pre-release their polls to Drudge.

ZogbyLOL and Rasmussen?

Diane said...

Does anyone know which presidential election so far had the largest percentage of turnout of young voters?

fred said...

dave-london-

Go look at the internal in any poll. Obama does not do well with older white folks (60+) but fine with all other groups in most polls. He is getting better with the oldsters to, that is part of this move.

bizkid23 said...

Mark said...

"I don't think this is too much reason to get excited. Early voting results are more a barometer of enthusiasm during the present election cycle. Those who are most excited to vote do so early. You risk becoming complacent if you expect these artificially high margins to hold on election day."

Damn really?! And I thought Obama would win NC by 34 points. Thanks for letting us in on the secret Captain Obvious.

Rick said...

The tables are not readable. Please use a smaller font for your fixed-with tables.

Rick said...

The tables are not readable. Please use a smaller font for your fixed-with tables.

fred said...

?i can read them fine, might be your computer settings.

Jeremy said...

Diane, I think you'll find the data here

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheets/FS_Youth_Voting_72-04.pdf

fred said...

Early voting wetn to Kerry in IA in 2004, Kerry lost.

Charles Crook said...

"How/When will early voters be reported on election night? Will they be counted directly with their district, be added early (as soon as poll close) or on a later day?"

Early voters will be reported as the official returns are being reported.

What will be interesting is that exit polls of voters on Nov 4 might show a trend more favorable to Republicans ( if a lot % of Dems voted early, for instance ) while the official returns might vary substantially from the exit polls.

Darío said...

Iowa is a swing state?

fred said...

The exit polls are essentially worthless in early voting states.

fred said...

Iowa was a swing state in 2004. Do you remember that, or not?

slicknickshady said...

People relax...that ohio ruling is not that big of a deal. it will get straightend out. I'll start worrying if something comes out where it does not get faxed. Stop jumping off the deep end with the "WE JUST LOST OHIO" BS.

CarolinaWren said...

But early voting is not yet under way in NC. It starts tomorrow.

Verb said...

Georgia a swing state? I never thought I'd live to see the day!

Charles Crook said...

"The exit polls are essentially worthless in early voting states."

I wouldn't say worthless.

For instance, an exit poll in a state with heavy (Dem) early voting that shows only a slight Dem lead could actually signal an overwhelming victory in that state, while giving temporary and false hope to Republicans.

the old perfesser said...

I'm in NC, and I want to have explained to me how SurveyUSA can manage an exit polling of mailed-in absentee ballots. I'm not challenging their results, but I just don't get it.

BTW, I suspect that one important additional incentive for Democrats' choosing to vote early springs from their anxiety about Republicans' efforts to suppress voting and challenge voters in blue districts.

justin32099 said...

"I'm in NC, and I want to have explained to me how SurveyUSA can manage an exit polling of mailed-in absentee ballots. I'm not challenging their results, but I just don't get it."

If I understand it correctly, these aren't exit polls, they're regular telephone polls. They ask if you've already voted, presumably, and if so, for whom.

Charles Crook said...

The Ohio decision allows a very simple solution, and one that the supervisor of elections needed to do anyway - verify that registrations are valid. Nothing wrong with that.

But how favorably will the same state court receive any further lawsuits? The Reps used their "get out of jail card" on a situation which very easily solved; this doesn't help the Reps at all.

mecobern said...

You know the Republicans are in deep doo-doo when they start shouting "voter fraud" before the first ballots are cast. Now we can see why.

I find it quite ironic that they are pushing this argument in OHIO, home of Diebold and the voter caging incidents in 04.

Charles Crook said...

"how SurveyUSA can manage an exit polling of mailed-in absentee ballot"

Did the poll ask the poll respondents whether they had voted early, and for whom?

STepper said...

On Morning Joe Obama seems to be stuck at 264 EVs. Chuck Todd just cant bring himself to close the deal. Hypocrite.

But it's a good thing, I think, as by keeping it close the Obama-backers remain engaged. But the RNC is not buying it and will soon pull more money from McCain.

The best part of their discussion was how it would be a burden for Obama to come to Washington with a Dem-heavy Congress. Yeah, right. Nothing fails like success. And Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough both bloviating that the Congress will be far to the left of the electorate.

Where do these buffoons come from? Do they actually get paid to be complete idiots?

UFB

slicknickshady said...

Home Simpson in the upcoming simpsons halloween episode say's it best about Ohio!

Darío said...

Iowa was a swing state in 2004. Do you remember that, or not?


Yes, but not this year.

Charles Crook said...

The Washington Post has an interesting article about retiree voting in FL; "Sun City Center" is in Hillsborough County, SE of Tampa:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/14/AR2008101403382.html?hpid=artslot

histocrat said...

What do you want to bet Fox reports the exit polls all night while only occasionally mentioning that Obama is guaranteed to outperform them?

Aunt Karen said...

Chuck Todd can't bring himself to close the deal because he needs something to talk about on his segment from now til November 4. So, he's going to hold out as long as humanly possible.

On the bringing up Ayers in the debate, in a way, while I'm sick of hearing about it, I wish McCain would. This past week he was proud to accept the endorsement of Lenore Annenburg, who, along with her husband, gave Ayers the $50 million grant to establish that Annenburg Chicago Challenge board. I wonder if that makes her a terrorist, or means that at the very least, she doesn't mind monetarily underwriting one?

Alexandria said...

I'm a little confused....early voting in NC doesn't start until the 16th, not the 6th. I know this because I've been promoting it for a month now.

bizkid23 said...

STepper said..

On Morning Joe Obama seems to be stuck at 264 EVs....



Ahahaha did you see the segment this morning? They put up the chart with Obama at 264 and said "I know Obama is leading these states but let's say Ohio goes to McCain, NC goes to McCain, Florida goes to McCain, etc etc etc goes to McCain, now you have 260 McCain to 264 Obama. Now let's give Nevada to McCain, you have McCain 265 vs Obama 264. That means Colorado which Obama is currently leading by 9 points could be the deciding state in this election!!!"

9 points huh, so why isn't it in the safe Obama category you dolts?

Homespun1 said...

I just voted "Absentee for Barack Obama for 2012".....

not sure if this one has been used yet.....

I thought it was funny, but it is ealry here.

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Do any of the news channels have Obama at 270 or greater?

Dr. Matt said...

Faux is already preparing to give Osarah binPalin her own show after she gets humiliated on Nov 4th.

joel said...

Even RCP has Obama over 270. the networks won`t do that until the election is over, need to keep people tuning in.
Zogby polls for newsmax.com a far rightwing site so he has to keep the numbers close. I think he is using equal democratic and republican weighing which is absurd.
The few days leading up to the election he will get in line with the other polls and then claim he was a great pollster.
Oh yeah if he was a great pollster we would have had president kerry which he declared was going to happen in 2004.

Dr. Matt said...

~~~~~~~~~
Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Do any of the news channels have Obama at 270 or greater?
~~~~~~~~~~

Holy Joe on MSNBC this morning had a segment which suggested the very best McGrampa could do is 273, based on the possible scenarios.

newsfromOH said...

A bit more about the Ohio decision:

Context is really important here. The judge was in Cincinnati (think Utah). The argument was largely about Cleveland (MA, NY or CA). Exactly the same paranoid uberconservative suspicion of the screaming liberals.

Cleveland's messed up in many, many ways but it's political machine is exceptionally powerful. They have been all over voter registration since 2004. Extreme paranoia and care. There is NO evidence that fraudulent registrations made it to the voter books. Local and national news has been all over them for the past year but there's no story there so they went away.

Don't care what comes out of Cincy, Cleveland has done its job and it's Obamaland.

Another aspect of this is that voters are also incredibly prepared. Having worked a special election yesterday, I was seriously impressed by EVERY voter coming in with drivers license in hand--no delays, no questions, just absolute determination that they were voting.

It's going to be an unusual election because there's going to be a very committed electorate.

And that's not good news for McCain.

Real Joe said...




Sen. Clinton says 2nd White House run is unlikely


Link


C.S.Strowbridge said...

"...they could alternatively represent a canary in the coal mine for a coming Democratic turnout wave."

Please let it be a wave. Please let it be a wave. Oh please let it be a wave.

PorridgeGun said...

NJ_Wingnut,


You mean this ACORN backlash?


McCain to ACORN: You Are What Makes America Special'

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/10/mccain-to-acorn-you-are-what-m.html




BTW, Obama won't have to deal with Pelosi and Reid for the next 2 years. Rahm Emanuel will probably become House Speaker, and Chris Dodd will DEFINATELY become Majority Leader. He's highly respected, and both Obama and Biden really like him.




Nice concern trolling though. At least you're consistent.

Malcolm said...

Nate,
Why do your LV numbers for SUSA for all states except NM differ from what you are using in your polling on the RHS? Here's an example: For NC for 10/6 you show McCain +5 in this post, but in your list of NC polls you have McCain +3 for SUSA on 10/6. In fact, all the numbers in your table are worse than for the polls listed on the right.

The only exception of course is NM, but this results from SUSA for 10/13 is new. I guess you'll add that one in today's polls.

jsdrtm said...

I voted early for Obama in Cedar Rapids, Iowa yesterday. I was surprised that there were about 10 other people voting at the same time and this was at 11 AM. Most of them were older folks. A lot of people I have talked to are doing mail-in absentee voting too.

jsdrtm said...

I voted early for Obama in Cedar Rapids, Iowa yesterday. I was surprised that there were about 10 other people voting at the same time and this was at 11 AM. Most of them were older folks. A lot of people I have talked to are doing mail-in absentee voting too.

PorridgeGun said...

Re: Hillary not running again


Don't bet on it. She basically ruled out EVERYTHING politically. Does anyone honestly believe she doesn't have ambitions beyond the senate?

germtan said...

I'm a bit concerned about these poll numbers. I remember in 2000 Al Gore was leading by 11 points three weeks before the election. Same with Jimmy Carter leading by double digits over Reagan three weeks before the 1980 election.

I trust Nate Silver's numbers and methodology but I don't trust the public. I wonder if respondents are saying they would vote for Obama because the momentum is going his way and because they want to appear to back a winner. Who knows what they will do when they enter the voting booth on November 4th.

Real Joe said...




Obama Campaign Buys Ads in 18 Video Games

Link


Dr. Matt said...

Have the reich-wingers blamed ACORN yet for the failures in Iraq?

Dr. Matt said...

~~~~~~~~~~
germtan said...

I'm a bit concerned about these poll numbers. I remember in 2000 Al Gore was leading by 11 points three weeks before the election. Same with Jimmy Carter leading by double digits over Reagan three weeks before the 1980 election.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

You're a f**king lying troll. P*ss off and go commit suicide, please. I said please.

Matt said...

Some fresh Survey USA polls:

South Carolina
M: 55
O: 41

Washington
O: 56
M: 40

New Mexico
O: 52
M: 45

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Germtan:

I don't think people a supporting Obama because of momentum. I think the most important thing that is going on is that Americans are voting their pocketbooks---the economy has gotten so bad that it will override all other issues.

Wayward Son said...

Regarding NC 'early voting'.. true in-person absentee voting starts tomorrow.

Anyone who is in the category of 'already voted' in NC mailed in their absentee ballot. This would normally be dominated by the elderly, but in partisan years like this one you probably also have a good number of people who just couldn't wait to vote for Obama, and went out of their way to request an absentee ballot. It's kind of a hassle, you have to send in a signed letter for each person in your household who will be voting, well in advance of the election.

Tomorrow, we get to vote in person at a surprisingly large number of polling places. This period will also allow people to register and vote at the same time, as long as they are not registered anywhere else in the state.

I would expect the AV percentage for North Carolina to skyrocket after the first one-stop absentee weekend.

alafair said...

OT, but I need some help. I'm in NC and hearing a lot of the "he's not really a citizen meme. I remember that someone here posted a really good link about the guy who started the whole thing...but I don't remember what it was! Something about how he wasn't allowed to file federal lawsuits without prior court approval. Discussion here is so lively that I can't find it.

Anyone remember the link?

Homespun1 said...

okay everyone stop for a moment and thank heaven that the evangelical fanatics just could not get behind the Cultist and the fiscalCons could not get behind the Big Spendin Preacher from Ar-Kansas. Thereby defaulting the nod to McCainiac.

I think it is great we are not facing a Huckabee/Romney 08 ticket. I feel Obama/Biden still wins in this hypothetical, but it would be a damn sight closer without any sort of mandate.

Jeremy said...

alafair

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13martin.html?bl&ex=1224129600&en=4b6a0b6f9f1b411c&ei=5087%0A

Real Joe said...

matt said...
Some fresh Survey USA polls:

South Carolina
M: 55
O: 41

Washington
O: 56
M: 40

New Mexico
O: 52
M: 45


NM is looking good for Obama

Luke said...

Alafair,

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

That should help.

Mike said...

@alafair

The Man Behind the Whispers About Obama

slicknickshady said...

Gore was never ahead 11 on bush.

At this time in 2000 bush was up 13in Gallup.

Antony said...

"Canary in the coal mine" is an unfortunate choice of words. Usually means "first sign of impending disaster." Try "harbinger" or some other wording.

Antmatic said...

National Trackers

Rasmussen (10/15)
O-50
M-45
Unchanged

Diageo (10/15)
O-49 (+1)
M-41 (-1)

ic170 said...

"On Morning Joe Obama seems to be stuck at 264 EVs"

aye speaking of skewed in favour BS, that useless show [Morning Douche} had a poll tracker/ticker from Gallup running at the bottom of the screen which read 46-46, this was about a ten days ago, the bastard thing was 2 days expired! and they were passing it off as up-to-date, when the one for that morning was around the 49-42 % for Obama.

...yeaaah... cherry picking anyone?

bmcworldcitizen said...

McCain just dropped through 20% on intrade. Now at 19.8% ....

Charles Crook said...

Intrade has Indiana at (only!) M 50 O 47, making it the closest bet.

Antmatic said...

There are not enough moderate suburban white voters in South Carolina yet for Democrats to work there

justin32099 said...

"I remember in 2000 Al Gore was leading by 11 points three weeks before the election."

On October 5 Gore led by 11 points in the CNN tracking poll. Two days later, Bush was up by 7. After that, the only time Gore took the lead again was by 1 point on 10/24. Bush led, often by double digits, the rest of the way.

Don't present bogus Free Republican arguments as your own.

Jeremy said...

New FL poll:

Obama 47% McCain 42%

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/15/datamar_obama_leads_by_five_in_florida.html

These mega states are very hard to shift in less than 3 weeks.

Subterranean said...

homespun exhaled:

"okay everyone stop for a moment and thank heaven that the evangelical fanatics just could not get behind the Cultist and the fiscalCons could not get behind the Big Spendin Preacher from Ar-Kansas. Thereby defaulting the nod to McCainiac.

I think it is great we are not facing a Huckabee/Romney 08 ticket. I feel Obama/Biden still wins in this hypothetical, but it would be a damn sight closer without any sort of mandate."


Wow, I was thinking exactly this not but a couple days ago. Given how reverently the media tip-toed around Palin's fringe agendas, Huckabee would have had NO TROUBLE hiding his true colors.

someperson718 said...

Democrats know this isn't a game this time, it wasn't a game before but I don't think I have heard one person that didn't hear the words "this election is the most important one you will ever vote in." It's time to turn them out and Obama's campaign is showing it is as good as that as anyone.

Stephen C. Rose said...

Running Scared Makes Sense - Even with a 14 Point Obama Lead

MORE

SHERWICK said...

"I remember in 2000 Al Gore was leading by 11 points three weeks before the election. Same with Jimmy Carter leading by double digits over Reagan three weeks before the 1980 election."

Yes, we are therefore stepping up our efforts EVEN MORE to canvas, raise money and GOTV for Obama!! Thanks for inspiring us to work much much harder! (I assume that's what you wanted?)
;)

Real Joe said...

jeremy said...
New FL poll:

Obama 47% McCain 42%

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/15/datamar_obama_leads_by_five_in_florida.html

These mega states are very hard to shift in less than 3 weeks.


DAMN.

Darío said...

Who is Datamar?

Real Joe said...

Diageo (10/15)
O-49 (+1)
M-41 (-1)


its tight

hahahahhaha

Diane said...

@Jeremy 7:03

Thanks for that link.

Heather Nordquist said...

This looks good to me. Absentee ballots just went out on 10/7 in NM. Early, in-person voting begins on Saturday. That BO has 10% of those polled this week early voting is good news.

Heather

Anne said...

I have long been asserting that Obama's turnout numbers are going to be record-breaking insane, at least in the African American and youth demographics. But others too - the enthusiasm is infectious and crosses all borders, party lines, and population differences. It's really quite something, and I'm glad to see this borne out by numbers. On election day, when Indiana dings in BLUE, I'm going to joyfully shout "I TOLD YOU SO!"

I can't wait! 20 days!

Mark said...

We need more polls of Arkansas. If Missouri is shaded light blue, and if the Clintons are hitting the trail for Obama, what's to say Arkansas isn't in play? But we don't know because it's never polled.

Marlon said...

Hey Dwade.

What debates have you been watching?

Obama has not "dueled McCain to a draw". He's been kicking his ass!

And I'm not just saying that because all the polls overwhelmingly confirm this. I'm saying it because Obama is kool, calm, collected, articulate, forceful, informative, effecient and pleasant in these debates.

McCain on the other hands, doesn't answers question, appears flustered (treasury secretary question), unstable, meandering, and lacks facts and specifics (bail out question). McCain has been horrible in the debates, the TV people just don't like to point it out.

But even they had to during the second debates (did you watch the CNN grade scores. McCain got killed,even by the conservative analyst)admit that McCain got killed.

Just because there weren't any big fireworks, doesn't mean that McCain wasn't systematically trashed during the debates.

It was quite clear that Obama appeared more informed, stable, pleasant and Presidential, than McCain!

PS: I don't see that changing tonight.

Christopher said...

Obama's campaign has spent the better part of a year assembling organizations in every state and spent hundreds of millions on this effort. They turned the locomotive on a few weeks ago. That's not an easy machine to stop. I don't think the Republicans on this board understand the anger that Democrats felt in 2000, and the sadness they felt in 2004, and the passion and revenge they feel in 2008. There is a determination to not allow the same fear and failure of the Bush years.

Mule Rider said...

Count all the votes! It's better to have duplicate, votes from non-citizens, underage people, non-existant people be counted then invalidate one valid vote.

*sigh*

Right. And heaven forbid we more closely examine young men of Arab descent at the airport for security purposes.

Isn't it better that for politically correct reasons we treat everyone the same, regardless of the potential consequences, than interrogate an innocent Arab man for an extra hour or two and risk coming off insensitive?

I mean, it's obvious that it's far better for us, as a nation, to overlook hundreds of potential terrorists than to inconvenience one innocent man.

Mule Rider said...

Mark,

Here's your poll for Arkansas. It's red. It's not in play. He (Obama) won't need it, anyway, though.

michiganmaine said...

Thanks Ass Rider for bringing racism back to the forum.

Kenyada said...

I suggest that the pollsters throw out all data for African American voting in the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections. This election is very different for AAs. In previous elections, the majority of us voted against Bush, but there was a wedge created by the Repulsicans when they appealed to the black church, and paid off black preachers. Particularly in 2004, where the pulpit of the black church became just another campaign stop for high level Repulsican candidates, including Bush.

In 2008, however, there is a ground swell in the black community, and silence from the megachurch leaders, lest they suffer the price of empty collection plates. In the past, we always had to choose the better of two representatives of the status quo. Change was not an option. This year the choice is as clear as a bell. You should see the lines in Atlanta for early voting. And the faces of the people waiting in lines stretching 60 to 100 minutes in length tell the story. “This one is for Florida in 2004!”… “This one is for Fannie Lou Hamer in 1964!”… “This one is for Katrina!”

Yes, we are voting against McCain, but even more importantly, for the first time, we have a candidate for whom to vote wholeheartedly. I’ve never seen or heard anything like this in our neighborhoods. All across the State of Georgia the racist political structure has historically herded us into “Buttermilk Bottom” isolated pockets of political powerlessness. This is the first time that we have an opportunity to rise up, join together and, in one resounding voice say, “Enough!”

I’m not sure you understand. This vote is 400 years in the making. Pollsters don’t seem to take that into account. My 82-year old mother had to be rushed to the hospital last Sunday – congestive heart failure. One of the first things she asked when the oxygen mask was removed was “Will someone please get me an absentee ballot. I don’t want to miss the election.” Committed? Nah, black folks are *passionate* about this one. This is not only a vote for a candidate; it is a vote for America, the America we heard about from our parents and their parents, across the generations. Freedom and Liberty sound so trite these days, but I remember those words spoken by my Dad on his way to the March on Washington. January 20th will be a dream fulfilled. And if you are expecting only a 95% response on Election Day, you are misinterpreting the sound of the drum.

Jayne4Obama said...

I have been registering voters in Florida and the enthusiasm for Obama is tremendous - especially amongst students and the African American community - they can't wait to vote!

Darío said...

The comment isn´t racist.

bmcworldcitizen said...

I mean, it's obvious that it's far better for us, as a nation, to kill hundreds of foreigners, than to risk the life of one American.

I suspect this is what you'd really like to say, although you may not even be aware of it yourself. It is also the inevitable terminus of your diseased thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tug74L0w0WI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd89nXl5bJU

Mule Rider said...

michiganmaine,

Hardly being racist, my friend. Was pointing out, using an extreme example, how ludicrous it is to assert that it's okay for countless fraudulent votes to count for the sake of making sure just one legitimate vote isn't discarded.

It's absurd to say you'd have to compromise that much just for the sake of not throwing out a legitimate vote.

And I guess you feel safer and better about yourself just lazily hurling the "racist" label around with no regard than actually taking an intelligent look at the problem.

Don't ever call me racist again.

Heather Nordquist said...

Everyone

I have been working with the local BO campaign for 3 months now. The volunteers are fired up. If you want these numbers to stick:

Go to your local BO campaign office
Sign up for a shift
Canvass, call and work on election day to assure that all these votes get cast!!!

Writing a check is not enough this time. Do it for your country.

Working northern New Mexico for the next 20 days.

Obamanos

jnorthrop said...

@kenyada --

That was a beautiful post. Thanks!

michiganmaine said...

Dario,

Racial profiling is racist.

Mule Rider said...

bmcworldcitizen,

Nope. Wrong on all counts. Sorry, you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

Redshift said...

Mule Rider:
There is extensive research showing that racial profiling doesn't work. If you take the easy route and waste your resources interrogating someone who "looks Arab," you have fewer resources devoted to more effective means, and thus worse security.

But just like with torture, racial profiling fits the go-with-your-gut "get 'em" mentality, so why should intelligence have anything to do with it?

1Peter3:15 said...

I voted in Illinois on Oct. 13, and there was great turnout at the central polling place. TV crews were there, and there was a definite atmosphere of excitement.

Mule Rider said...

michiganmaine,

So is affirmitive action.

cora said...

misinterpreting the sound of the drum

kenyada,

nice words, interesting post.

michiganmaine said...

Ass Rider,

Racial profiling is racist. You seem to be for a racist policy. Anyhow, your analogy simply doesn't hold up. Racial profiling would treat all (not just one, as you suggest) young Arab men as suspects. I will call you a racist if you support racist policies. Racism is the institutionalization of racial prejudice. That is what racial profiling is.

Todd Dugdale said...

The wingnut meme is now completely schizophrenic. Democrats ostensibly will not turn out, which is why polling leads "don't matter". Yet, simultaneously, Democrats will supposedly vote multiple times due to registration fraud.

Another ACORN investigation in MN yesterday, which the wingnuts pounced on. However, the issue was that about 100 registrations were turned in late, so it's hard to see this playing out in favour of Democrats. All of those late registrations will be accepted as well, so no real harm done.
As usual, though, facts don't matter - it's an "investigation", which somehow means voter fraud in MN.

Ada said...

@Mulerider & Redshift:

I second Redshift. I don't oppose racial profiling on moral grounds, or because people feel discriminated or whatever, I oppose it because many studies have shown that it is bad for enforcement. Another reason besides what redshift said is that once you implement a system like that, you invite people to discover ways around that system - it wouldn't take very many resources for a group of interested people to figure out who clears the system and who doesn't, and use the people who clear the system. It is just flat out an ineffective method.

Christopher said...

Kenyada, that was beautiful -- please consider writing a blog and posting that. Thank you.

bmcworldcitizen said...

Nope. Wrong on all counts. Sorry, you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

Oh I doubt that. You're an obvious nationalist. Anyone touting McCain now, was certainly touting Bush's "fight them there, so we don't have to fight them here" meme back in the day.

Mule Rider said...

Okay, okay. Evidently I used the wrong extreme example to make a point.

I wasn't necessarily endorsing "racial profiling" of Arab men at airports as a counter-terrorism measure.

I was mocking the statement made above that basically said it's okay to overlook massive voter fraud to make sure we don't invalidate one legitimate vote.

I don't want to invalidate even one legititmate vote. Just like I in no way want to see one innocent man unduly interrogated for the sake of "keeping the peace."

However, to just blindly throw out that it's perfectly fine and good to overlook fraudulent activity to "preserve Democracy" is ludicrous.

There are other ways to reduce or eliminate frauduleant voting without compromising legitimate votes.

michiganmaine said...

"So is affirmitive action."

So you are saying that affirmative action is racist, but racial profiling isn't? Or are you now admitting that you are racist for supporting the racist policy of racial profiling?


Affirmative action rights a historical and social wrong and IS NOT an institutionalization of racial prejudice. It is not anti-white or based on anti-white prejudice. You thinking on this is weak as can be.

nkpolitics1279 said...

John McCain is bitching about John Lewis comparing him to George Wallace- How would McCain react if he was compared to Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms.

livemild said...

i voted early in NM days ago turnout was small but this is a town of 50,000 so... but i wasnt the only car with an obama sticker and this is a HEAVY repub town.

i was polled (finally) on the phone last night and the first question they asked was if i had already voted then they asked who i would vote for president.

Redshift said...

Hardly being racist, my friend. Was pointing out, using an extreme example, how ludicrous it is to assert that it's okay for countless fraudulent votes to count for the sake of making sure just one legitimate vote isn't discarded.

And you would have fallen for the bait-and-switch the GOP pulls every election. There is no evidence of "countless fraudulent votes." The only "evidence" they ever present is of fraudulent registrations, usually of obviously nonexistent voters. These are cases of fraud by employees against the organizations doing registration drives. They are not voter fraud, because no one is going to show up on Election Day and claim to be "Mickey Mouse." After 2004, the Bush Administration ordered Bush-appointed US Attorneys across the country to vigorously pursue the "voter fraud" they were loudly claiming had occurred in swing states and none of them could find a case worth prosecuting (so they fired them and replaced them ones who would follow orders instead of the law, but that's another story.)

So no, it is not worth depriving one person of their right to vote because of this paperwork problem. There is no evidence that significant voter fraud has ever occurred in the past several decades in this country, accusations of it are a standard part of the Republican vote-suppression efforts in every national election and discarding "legitimate votes" in response to it is supporting their effort to win by subverting the will of the people.

Mule Rider said...

bmcworldcitizen,

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not touting Bush's, McCain's, or anybody's crap.

If you've read any of my posts before, I'm as critical of Iraq and how Bush has handled as any Democrat.

Get your facts straight. Talking about making sure our civilian aircraft are safe from terrorists - which I was only doing as an analogy - and talking about the "go get 'em on their turf" stuff is like comparing apples and oranges....make that peanuts and pumpkins.

Get a clue.

Isaac said...

MR,

bruce (the guy you're railing against) is obviously a straw man troll.

chill.

Mule Rider said...

Thanks, Isaac. You always have a level head.

Regarding the "fraudulent vote" or "racial profiling" discussions, they are done. It's a finished conversation.

Heather Nordquist said...

What is most amazing about the SurveyUSA poll is that BO got over 70% of the Hispanic vote in NM. They are 44% of the population of the state.

livemild, where are you? Southern NM? Las Cruces, maybe?

The Fly said...

The fact that a lot of military also vote absentee also helped Bush in 2000 and 2004, and could cut against Obama this year

seer said...

You'll have to excuse Mule Rider. He's just a simple Tennessee based redneck who's internalized the cracker way of thinking over the years. These fools don't even know how fucked up they truly are.

michiganmaine said...

Redshift's comments above are right on the money. Falling for this diversion is the problem. The media, of course, loves it. Anything for some controversy. A the right-wing talk machine on the internet, radio, and TV play it up. It is pure BS. There is nothing to the story. It is ONLY a way to disenfranchise voters, call the election into question, and shift votes to Republicans. Those that spread the story, such as MR, clearly show where their allegiance lies.

But it look like this year this story and Republican disenfranchisement won't be able to hold the Dems back.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Guys. You should all go volunteer at an Obama campaign office. The amount of hot chicks is overwhelming. Imagine, you get a girl that is interested in the same things you are socially and politically. It's almost like a big dating service PLUS you get to help Obama get elected. Just follow THIS link to find an event near you.

On a side note, you can download some stencils for Obama pumpkins here!!! Check these babies out!

Yes We O'Can.

Jeremy said...

Another weird poll from Battleground.

Obama 51% McCain 43% (yesterday was 53-40).

Such erratic movements in a 24 hour period deems them official bullshitters along with Zogby.

http://www.tarrance.com/files/2-way-ballot-trender-10-14.pdf

cora said...

I suggest y'all go back n read Kenyada's post. I also suggest to NATE he put it up as his next article without further comment.
Does anyone agree ?

Correa-Jones Happenings said...

Thanks Kenyada, I agree with you, there can be no accounting for the spirit this election is bringing to millions. I am humbled that I am seeing history in the making, and will have a chance to be a part of it, that my children already know who Barack Obama will be. I am looking forward to standing in line, I do hope it is hours long. It's about time. Great post.

Mule Rider said...

seer,

Yep, I'm f-ed up enough that I could only achieve a master's level education in economics and achieve a successful career in a competitive field.

And through the years, I've also been so f-ed up that I've been in multiple situations - church, graduate school, peace corps - where I was entrenched with vast majorities of other races, creeds, ethnicities, and cultures and was loved and respected by all and the feeling was mutual.

So you can throw out the blanket "racist" claims all day. It doesn't change who I am. You're just little peons on a message boards who nobody knows from Adam.

Good luck making your accusation stick.

STepper said...

Kenyada's post brought a tear to the eyes and a lump in the throat of this 63 year old white lawyer who's seen and heard everything. Very moving.

Mule Rider said...

Those that spread the story, such as MR, clearly show where their allegiance lies.

What's that again? See below.

bruce said...

Since the new registrants are overwhelmingly Democrats, this ruling can only hurt the Democratic ticket's chance of carrying Ohio.

This will damage Democrats, because many invalid votes will not be counted. Count all the votes! It's better to have duplicate, votes from non-citizens, underage people, non-existant people be counted then invalidate one valid vote. This is a Democracy!

October 15, 2008 6:03 AM

Redshift said...

Seer, don't.

I've had some perfectly reasonable discussions with Mule Rider here in the past (and this one was actually pretty useful, too.) There are plenty of real trolls here, but slinging ad hominem attacks against people who aren't does not contribute to the discussion.

(And yes, I know that MR often throws around insults instead of making useful contributions to the discussion, and I would say the same thing to him at those times, but even somewhat inflammatory comments are fine as long as they're substantive.)

someperson718 said...

What are the state poll numbers out today?

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Kenyada.

For some strange reason, your message brings to me a sense of deja vu. I've had dreams of the lines in Georgia for some reason in past weeks. Long lines of African Americans coming to vote like never seen before. In their faces you could see the pains of generations, built up inside. It was a very odd dream but was one of those dreams that felt so real I still had a taste of it in my mouth when I woke.

Anyways. I'm glad this is building up to be a good dream and not another nightmare.

Fwiffo said...

God I wish this made me excited. However, I distinctly remember 2004. I reported for volunteering duty on election day, with promising early and absentee voting numbers in hand, culled from blogs. There was exciting early-voting polls out of Ohio... There were more Democratic absentee ballots sent out and turned in in Iowa...

I won't take any of this for granted this time. SurveyUSA is polling unhatched chickens, not voters.

Mule Rider said...

My "outrageous claim" was only in response to another "outrageous claim."

Okay, now I'm finished with this conversation. I'd get more out of going to the zoo and scratching my ass and hurling feces with the other monkeys than try and explain what should be a very straightforward issue that was discussed.

T said...

thing I just wondered: why is Diageo sponsoring political polls?

cora said...

again, to all those to busy searching new polls and crunching numbers: GO READ KENYADA's POST.
PLEASE.

someperson718 said...

Kenyada got me fired up and ready to go! Can't wait for this debate tonight, I always donate money right after the debate and everyone should do the same.

michiganmaine said...

Florida InAdv/PollPosition Obama 48, McCain 44 Obama +4

North Carolina InAdv/PollPosition Obama 48, McCain 46 Obama +2

Nevada InAdv/PollPosition Obama 49, McCain 46 Obama +3

West Virginia InAdv/PollPosition McCain 49, Obama 47 McCain +2

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/IA_Florida_101508.pdf

bmcworldcitizen said...

So you can throw out the blanket "racist" claims all day. It doesn't change who I am. You're just little peons on a message boards who nobody knows from Adam.

Well strictly speaking we are ALL little peons etc. On this message board though, you are the akward little outlier peon.

However, given your resumé, lets give you the benefit of the doubt. Why on Earth would you be pro McCain? Or if this is too strong a characterisation, why anti Obama? No silly reasons now, everyone here recognises the talking points from both sides.

Matthew H said...

Could we, for the first time in a very very very long time, have a majority of Blacks, a majority of Hispanics, a majority of Asians, and a majority of Whites all vote for the same candidate?

What a strange thought, isn't it?

michiganmaine said...

Sorry, other links:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/IA_NorthCarolina_101508.pdf

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/IA_Nevada_101508.pdf

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/IA_WestVa_101508.pdf

Correa-Jones Happenings said...

Read Kenyada's post to my husband who is black, I am not-he had to ask me to stop crying =). My vote will be for those who judge only by skin color and not by content of character, that anything truly is possible, by anyone. My children deserve better. The opportunity is there.

Darío said...

West Virginia is close.

Darío said...

Who is Adam?

William said...

"Does anyone honestly believe she doesn't have ambitions beyond the senate?"

I think she wants to be the next Ted Kennedy.