From yesterday's CBS/NYT poll:
Fifty-nine percent of registered voters think McCain's economics would favor the wealthy; just 11 percent the middle class. Far more than being a "center-right" country, this is a middle class country, and a candidate who fails to speak to the concerns of the middle class does so at his own peril.
Certainly to some extent, rough economic times favor the Democrats, at least when there's a Republican in the White House. But in general, I think the pundits have been too judicious; Obama has gotten too little credit, and McCain not enough blame, for their handling of the financial crisis.
McCain did himself no favors with his "fundamentals" comment, nor the "suspension" of his campaign. But the former might qualify as a capital-G gaffe -- McCain seemed to want to retract his words as soon as he uttered them -- and the later was a snap decision the implications of which were hard to see in advance. These were arguably errors of tactics rather than strategy, if you will.
There have been plenty of other occasions, however, on which McCain had plenty of time to contemplate his message, and wound up coming across as tone deaf. The failure to mention the phrase "middle class" even once during the three presidential debates was either brazen, incompetent, or both. The notion that a capital gains tax cut would be persuasive to middle class families was naive. Joe the Plumber is gimmicky, and seems that way to most Americans. And McCain's best talking point about the economy -- that of high energy prices -- has been strangely absent from the discussion on the post-Lehman economy, or has mutated into a strident catch phrase about offshore drilling.
Conversely, it is not as though Obama was Hillary Clinton or Mitt Romney -- someone who was seen coming into this crisis as an economic savant. But the basic message that a robust middle class is the foundation of economic growth is exactly the right one in troubled times like these, and Obama has delivered it with discipline and grace.
10.24.2008
The Number That Explains It All
by Nate Silver @ 1:29 PM
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Nebraska chancellor defends Ayers invite
A reader forwards over an email from the Chancellor of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Harvey Perlman, to students, after having canceled a speaking invitation to Bill Ayers, and offers the sort of real spirited defense that's been largely absent from this story:
Given the national focus on his past and the appearance that his visit to Lincoln was related to the election, many people in Nebraska were furious. Although I do not agree with this reaction, I can understand it and the concerns expressed. Given Ayers' background, reasonable people could regard him with disgust, yet our traditions permit individuals to speak, even if their backgrounds or ideas are objectionable. Nebraskans care deeply about their university. We cannot have a great university if the selection of speakers, faculty, curriculum, or activities is governed by the passions of the moment or even the views of the majority.
I want to emphasize one point as strongly as I can. I do not think the selection of Ayers to come to Lincoln to address a student research conference on research methodology was in any way inappropriate. He is an acknowledged scholar, a tenured faculty member at the University of Illinois Chicago, and a high ranking officer in the association dealing with this type of research. He was named "Chicago Citizen of the Year" in 1996 and has worked tirelessly to improve the Chicago public schools. Ayers has spoken at more than 70 universities, including Iowa State, North Dakota State, Indiana, Purdue, the University of Missouri, and Michigan State. In the final accounting of his life, there will be very negative entries for his conduct 40 years ago and there will be more current positive entries as well.
Much is made of the "fact" that he has not repented for his acts of violence. The evidence of whether he has expressly done so is uncertain, which could lead reasonable people to think he had not. It is clear that he currently leads a responsible life, one apparently devoted to improving the lives of school children in Illinois and in the nation. Repentance can come by deeds as well as by words.
foreverblu said...
"During the third debate, did you notice when McCain made such a big deal that Obama thought Joe the Plumber was "rich" because he earned $250,000. Now, that was a tone deaf remark.
I guess when your wife is a beer heiress $250k doesn't seem like a lot of money, but for the vast majority of the country it sounds like a pretty nice income. I think most people would jump at the chance to earn a quarter million bucks annually.
I have been really surprised that no one crucified him over that moment. I thought it was a huge mistake and very telling about how out of touch he really is."
Here's another one from 2006, where McCain is insisting no Americans would do farm work for $50 an hour which, to him, is apparently nothing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOZKeOauNI
mrinsight22 said...
The fool McCain is heading to Iowa again tomorrow where he has absolutely no chance of winning.
i don't believe this shit
Iowa ?
give me a break
its fu**ing blue
Earlier today, John Moody, executive vice president at Fox News, commented on his blog there that "this incident could become a watershed event in the 11 days before the election. If Ms. Todd's allegations are proven accurate, some voters may revisit their support for Senator Obama, not because they are racists (with due respect to Rep. John Murtha), but because they suddenly feel they do not know enough about the Democratic nominee.
I guess he was trying to insinuate that Obama attacked her. Talk about race baiting.
Mahoney a no-show in a televised debate:
So that FL seat returns to Red.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MAHONEY_DEBATE
CBS NEWS:
Fired McCain Cold Caller Attends Biden Event
Link
According to the article FirstLook on MSNBC website, McCain staffer said they have lost NM and IA.
Hey, where's RCW to tell us about Obama supporters beating up McCain supporters?
C'mon, RCW, tell us again how brazen and uncouth us dumb liberals are, and how this incident is going to lead to a McCain's victory.
Do tell us again, you merio!
Has he delivered or just promised it? I'll believe it when I see it as I still think Obama is going to hand out money to the poor.
I read the poll and I still don't understand why Obama is ahead in almost everything, except for the "do you think he's ready to be president" question. If someone is listed as better able to handle a crisis, more understanding of the problems, a better communicator and you are more comfortable with him, than how can more people say that Obama is not ready to be pres? Anyone have any thoughts?
That "readiness" question is the only reason that I'm not putting on my party hat for Obama yet. That's the only thing the McCain camp can cling to at this point - and they will.
Where's my stupid IBP/TIPP update? It was up hours ago yesterday. I need another laugh after the backwards B story.
Maybe they're delaying to to doublecheck their numbers.
ABANDON THE MCCAIN/PALIN SHIP!
Charles Fried, the Reagan official and Harvard professor, asks to be taken off McCain's list of advisors and backs Obama.
Fried cited as a reason "the choice of Sarah Palin at a time of deep national crisis."
He's a big deal in conservative legal circles, though also a harsh Bush critic on some constitutional issues.
So I'm now taking it as a given Obama will win. The new question for me is by how much?
Is it really a 6/7 point lead or is it closer to 10 points? I think we can agree the IDB/TIPP is a totally bunk poll that's probably skewed by a typo no one wants to confess to. Is it pulling down the poll of poll average enough that this thing really is closer to 10 than it is to 6?
It seems the state polling is both showing big margins in blue states and lots of red states getting incredibly close or pulling away for Obama. Those aren't imaginary numbers, so unless Oklahoma is going 80-20 McCain, I'm thinking the popular vote really is nearing a double digit lead for BHO.
That is a very telling comment indeed.
Joe the Plumber says he may run against Rep Marcy Kaptor (D-Ohio) in 2010.
Good luck with that, Joe. She has the safest Dem seat in Ohio outside of Cleveland.
otf said...
According to the article FirstLook on MSNBC website, McCain staffer said they have lost NM and IA.
this was out there for sometime
One thing that strikes me when McCain keeps talking about Obama's "spread the wealth" comment, is that many Americans who are struggling probably like the idea of spreading the wealth, but McCain doesn't realize it. He only thinks from the viewpoint of a rich person.
I'm going to be watching Indiana on Nov. 4, if it's blue at 7pm then we know it's over... hoping for 400+ EV landslide!
To "GaMeS" -- Yes, the pretty little graph (yeah, I had to look, despite my bar license, I'm not yet sure what words are) shows that Obama's plan is a percent or two better in the middle class range. However, that's only true if you believe Obama can fully implement all of his programs while still sticking to his quoted numbers. Personally, I do not believe he can, and I believe taxes will be going up for far more than just those making $250,000 or more. We're going to have damn near 60 democrats in the senate, you're crazy if you don't think it's going to be social-program-central the next 4 years.
And to be clear, I'm for small government, and believe that GWB is certainly the worst president of my lifetime.
charles crook said
Huckabee holds no office. When was the last time an out-of-work politician gained a nomination?
Reagen managed it only because of having California on his resume, both as governor and Hollywood.
Public: You were governor of Arksansa 5 years ago? Who cares?
--------------------
Personally I don't think it is a disqualification. (Actually I don't think voters necesarily would either, especially if Huckabee has a reasonably high profile), if my maths is right 4 of the last 10 Presidents held no elected office at the time they became President, and given that 2 of the ten assumed thre Presidency from VP, we are talking a 50% election rate there. Conversely, I can't think of a person who won the nomination without elected office, who then lost the Presidetial election since WW2, save for Walter Mondale.
My ev prediction
Obama 364
McCain 174
McCain has practically emphasized his dedication to the status quo, to ensuring that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. The man owns several houses. He's not remotely middle class. He has no way of relating nor any intention of relating.
Any middle class and poorer voters who honestly think he'll look out for their best interests are delusional.
"Maybe McCain is trying to lose."
I ask this every day now b/c that's how often a new absurd oddball narrative pops up.
real joe,
It makes little sense but typical of McCain campaign. If the report above is true about going to IA then why are his staffers saying the lost it already. Also, why the heck was he in IA last week? McCain campaign is horrible!
Rasmussen
New Hampshire
O-50
M-46
Iowa
O-52
M-44
Kind of underwhelming, but whatever
Matthew, if Obama is a smart man, and I have no reason to doubt it at this point, he will likely legislate center to slightly right of center. IF he wins, this one would've been hard fought, and I seriously doubt he will give it all away in 4 years by embracing left leaning policies.
Everything I have read about him leads me to believe that he is pragmatic, not an idealogue, and his courtship of the 'blue dog' Democrats affirms it.
sp i agree with you 100%
Now that McCain's win percentage is down to 3.7%, could we see a list of all the scenarios by which he wins?
And remember that Obama or McCain would be only the third sitting Senator in history to become president (Harding and Kennedy as the first two), and the last six presidents had never been Senators,
It has been one of the worst routes to the White House. McCain's campaign (with the length of his service) explains in part why.
Just for interest noone has reported Gallup as far as I can tell today- McCain down 1 point from yesterday across the board.
RV 50-42
LV+ 51-44
LVtrad 50-45
Probably has been reported, but took my eyes of the sight for a while there.
Alyssa,
agreed as well. I've been wondering since the campaign suspension if the gop's been actively trying to throw this thing, under the thinking that 4 years of dem rule in hard times would make them look better in 2010/12. However, this was McCain's last realistic shot for age reasons, and Mr. Maverick isn't nearly enough of a company man to convincingly take a dive like that so close to the brass ring.
Actually, regarding Iowa, the last Rasmussen poll there also showed an 8 point lead, so that is standard for him. New Hampshire may end up closer than its polling average, people like McCain up there, but he can't afford to compete up there anymore.
RealClearPolitics.com is Run by GOP Hacks
Debunking the Bradley Effect, Again
Senate Graphs: Democrats 59, Republicans 41
Just heard a great quote on CNBC
"We tell the young people looking for a job on Wall Street now it's either Shanghai, Dubai, Mumbai or goodbye"
It would be funny if it weren't true.
Dr. Matt said...
WAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAH HA HA HA
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redscan/2008/oct/24/that-mutilated-mccain-volunteer-2/
Jeepers. No commenters on that diary page?
will wonders never cease...
anyone else enjoying making up random meanings for the word capture thingies?
Faking an attack to try to make Obama look bad. Appealing to the most base instincts of humanity. Have the repubs no shame?
Well it took almost a year, but we've finally found him - the Biggest Douche of the Election Season. This guy:
"Earlier today, John Moody, executive vice president at Fox News, commented on his blog there that "this incident could become a watershed event in the 11 days before the election. If Ms. Todd's allegations are proven accurate, some voters may revisit their support for Senator Obama, not because they are racists (with due respect to Rep. John Murtha), but because they suddenly feel they do not know enough about the Democratic nominee. "
Let's just set aside the fact that the event turned out to be a hoax. What exactly is Mr. Moody trying to say here about not only the people of western PA, but the American people?
'Joe the Plumber' Mulling Run for Congress
http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2008/10/24/joe-the-plumber-says-hes-mulling-run-for-congress/
HAHAHAHAHA
Ant thanks for the Rass numbers. The Iowa number shows no change from the last time they polled it. They have been polling Obama very close in this state when everyone who knows the state acknowledges a double digit lead.
The NH is once again completely contradicting what the other polls say. RK2 polled just a few days ago and has Obama up by 8.
"Have the repubs no shame?"
There are crazy, disturbed people on all sides an in all walks of life.
Granted, the pressure of realizing they are going to lose bad may be forcing out a few of the Republican crazies, but they are still everywhere.
Moonbeam said...
foreverblu said...
"During the third debate, did you notice when McCain made such a big deal that Obama thought Joe the Plumber was "rich" because he earned $250,000. Now, that was a tone deaf remark.
I guess when your wife is a beer heiress $250k doesn't seem like a lot of money, but for the vast majority of the country it sounds like a pretty nice income. I think most people would jump at the chance to earn a quarter million bucks annually.
I have been really surprised that no one crucified him over that moment. I thought it was a huge mistake and very telling about how out of touch he really is."
Oh. My. God.
I just "got" this moment for the first time. McCain said "Congratulations Joe, you're rich!"
I thought he was saying "good on your for being a productive engine of the economy."
But he was being sarcastic. Insinuating that Joe's economic future was being held back (by taxes).
Is that how other people read it? Wowowow.
"3.7%, could we see a list of all the scenarios by which he wins?"
It wouldn't be that long--just 370 of them out of 10000.
We know what 23 of them are (Bush's map,) and that he clears 375 in exactly 1. The 0 chance of 2004 is not surprising; the few scenarios where McCain wins Iowa and New Mexico, he almost certainly also wins states like New Hampshire.
There are a few short spikes around the 250-270 zone.
"Where's my stupid IBP/TIPP update? It was up hours ago yesterday. I need another laugh after the backwards B story.
Maybe they're delaying to to doublecheck their numbers."
They're trying to reach Ashley Todd to include her in today's sample.
trevor said
"3.7%, could we see a list of all the scenarios by which he wins?"
It wouldn't be that long--just 370 of them out of 10000.
------------------------
369 of them involve Hell freezing over.
Miranda said...
I read the poll and I still don't understand why Obama is ahead in almost everything, except for the "do you think he's ready to be president" question. If someone is listed as better able to handle a crisis, more understanding of the problems, a better communicator and you are more comfortable with him, than how can more people say that Obama is not ready to be pres? Anyone have any thoughts?
lol
Presidents are white. Obama is not. Obviously he's not ready to be president.
Maybe we should give him a few more years.
Thanks for the numbers again Antmatic. Not over yet.
It's become clear to me that I have no choice but to be Ashley Todd for Halloween.
And so it shall be.
Lore Sjoberg (comic, columnist) pointed out that "Ashley Todd" is an anagram for "Shoddy Tale"
i might just carve a backwards B in a jack-o-lantern's face
I'm starting to wonder if IBP is doing the Rasmussen thing. There was a while when you could tell how good the news was for Obama based around how late the poll got posted. Good Obama polls seem to come up later.
OpenID crwtrobot said...
It's become clear to me that I have no choice but to be Ashley Todd for Halloween.
And so it shall be.
There are going to be a lot of backward B's out there in a week.
Have I just noticed something or has Nate added something new- Obama's likeliest EV totals underneath his EV distibution graph?
Hey, first-time poster here with a dumb newbie question.
Is there a Web site that has historical polling information? Where I could find what the major polls were saying on date "x" for, I dunno, the last four elections?
The password is "opprance."
"Well it took almost a year, but we've finally found him - the Biggest Douche of the Election Season. This guy {Moody of Fox}"
I am amazed that even a Fox "news" person would be that stupid. Even if the B-scratch story had turned out to be true, it would have little to no impact. Willie Horton worked because it directly tied to Dukakis as Governor of Mass. This story, even if true, was not tied to Obama, or his campaign, or anything.
dumbass could have carved an O and wouldnt have had this little "mirror" problem.
Or better yet, a H for HOO-SAYNE
"Faking an attack to try to make Obama look bad. Appealing to the most base instincts of humanity. Have the repubs no shame?"
I'm no fan of how the McCain campaign has conducted itself, but let's not use such a wide brush to paint all the Republicans for the misdeeds of one. That young woman clearly has problems. We can't conclude much else beyond that.
Didn't HE post something remarkably similar to Ashley Todd's story last night? Except he claimed it happened to him?
notopp - ha I'm topless!
Shepherd Smith following up on the story now on Fox - Todd will face charges, moving on...
Apparently Rick Sanchez on CNN did raise the issue of media culpability and complicity in spreading this story - did anyone see this?
Obama has a 3.5pt advantage in the new Ibd/tipp poll.
45.8 - Obama
42.3 - McCain
sp said...
I'm no fan of how the McCain campaign has conducted itself, but let's not use such a wide brush to paint all the Republicans for the misdeeds of one. That young woman clearly has problems. We can't conclude much else beyond that.
Actually, when both McCain and Palin call her personally, they inadvertantly and purposefully politicize the event. We can conclude that they are willing to politicize unresearched, unfounded, poorly thought out, and specious themes.
bryen193 said...
Anybody have an thoughts on the weirdness of Palin giving a "major policy address" limited to the single subject of special needs children just 11 days from the presidential election?
Why does everyone consider her the parent of a special needs child at this point? Yes, she has a child that is going to have special needs in the future, but is just like every other infant at this stage. She is not yet a parent of a special needs child!
" We can conclude that they are willing to politicize unresearched, unfounded, poorly thought out, and specious themes."
Which wouldn't even be that big a deal, if it wasn't the third time they've done it in the campaign (Palin and Samuel the Fake Plumber being the other two).
SP said...
I'm no fan of how the McCain campaign has conducted itself, but let's not use such a wide brush to paint all the Republicans for the misdeeds of one. That young woman clearly has problems. We can't conclude much else beyond that.
I get where you're coming from, and my liberal sensibilities often knee-jerk me in the direction of greater understanding...
but they way that they siezed upon that story and made this dubious woman's alleged pain their own?
They hold high the standards of douche baggery.
What pisses me off with her "special needs" stuff is the fact that she didn't appear to care at all until it affected her family.
Dems consistently push for this type of funding, even if they aren't personally affected, because we know it is important.
CNBC quote:
If Obama wins, you want to own solar & wind stocks.
If McCain wins, you want to own oil & coal stocks.
I think Rass is trying to raise some spirits. If NH is +4 O only, I'll eat my shoe.
All I'm saying is that if the shoe were on the other foot, we wouldn't be so high-horsey about the top of the Democratic ticket reaching out to a 'fallen soldier'.
Of course, this does smack of desperation, but that's where the McCain campaign finds itself. In the grand scheme of screw-ups in this particular campaign, this one is small potatoes.
Whoever wins won't have many choices.
As the current crisis shows, massive goverment intervention is the only option.
Massive goverment intervention needs must continue:
Else huge numbers of citizens will be homeless while perfectly good properties are reposed & boarded up for lack of affordable morgages.
Else universities will lie empty with staff unemployed & idle while student quit for lack of student loans.
Else good people who worked & saved all their lives will lack medical atention because their jobs & saving have vanished.
There is enough work & food & healthcare & housing for all, but the economic system that distributed these things is on life support. It will be years before it recovers. In the meantime life must go on, and so - goverment intervention.
I won't use the word socialism because nobody seams to like it, but you get the picture. It won't be any different if McCain should win.
"It appears that it won't matter in the long run, but it IS worrisome, that the most prepared, well-equipped, thoughtful and articulate candidate has to wade through this sewer of racial tension that still pollutes this country..."
Very well put.
HAHAHA....
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/Polls.aspx?id=309726105567795#pollb
internals are still great. I hope Nate runs the stats on the 18-24 again!
RCP is up to 7.8 now. Will it hit 8?
And that's without using the Kos poll...
About the only mileage the McCain campaign has gotten out of Joe the Plumber is that he got Obama to utter the words "spread the wealth around". In any other election since the 1970's, that gaffe would have cost Obama the election. But in this campaign, calling him "Obama the wealth spreader" just makes you sound like you've been drinking too much of Limbaugh's Kool-Aid. And in this economy, a lot of folks like the idea of a "wealth-spreader" a lot more than the idea of a "manure-spreader".
The White House says the President and his wife participated in Texas' early voting Friday, casting their ballots for McCain.
Their votes will be sent back to the Lone Star State and the President will remain in D.C. on election night.
Mule Rider with ID ending 424 has intelligent discourse.
Mule Rider with ID ending 549 is a nametroll.
I so hope Nate does some sort of awards post for the pollers during this election season. I think Zogby might be about to lose its worst poll of the year award.
2 votes for McCain
:-)
Press conference in Pittsburgh: this was handled by their assault unit (women officers);
1) they doubted the story from the beginning
2) they wasted many manpower hours, it took time away from important real cases
3) they knew they had to do it because of the racial and national implications.
Apart from the criminal charge, Todd should also be billed for this, even if she can't pay.
(talkingpointsmemo has the clip)
I assume this is going to get big play (as in lead story) in the Pittsburgh press tonight.
Bush + Mrs Bush votes for McCain = FInal two nails in the McCain campaign coffin.
@Marc King
There are plenty of legitimate bones to pick with McCain/Palin, I see no reason to resort to that kind of nonsense.
Palin mis-spoke again. What she meant to say was: "God will do the left thing on election day."
I was really looking forward to the republicans running loads of "big scary black men attacking simple volunteer plumber white woman" ads. Dang! The mirror writing thing gave it away -- sorry for her, but she has become a metaphor for the republican way: fake, yet dumb.
Real Joe, the president and his spouse may as well have cast those two votes in DC for all the good it's going to do.
But, I'm glad he is fully supportive of John McCain, even after his utter denounciation of the Bush policies and presidency. That'll help put some distance between them.
Ashley Todd is what is wrought from Lee Atwater.
These people are everywhere. Remember Susan Smith, the mother in South Carolina who locked her two children in the car and rolled them into a lake and to their deaths? She was wrought from Lee Atwater.
Bill Cunningham of WLW 700 in Cincinnati? Straight from the loins of Lee Atwater.
Why? Because they all have used black males as the strawman. Ashley Todd was no different than Atwater in that she blamed a black man for her attack. Susan Smith had a Willie Horton in an imaginary black male who kidnapped her kids when she was the culprit all along. Bill Cunningham injects race into every discussion he has and acts like Claude Rains in "Casablanca" when he is called out on it ("I'm shocked such an accusation can be made!").
What do they call have in common? They are all products of the post-Nixon Republican Party. Todd in her role now, Smith as a strong supporter of the SC GOP, and Bill Cunningham in his support for all things Southern Ohio GOP.
Race matters to these people and it is killing them that a black (actually, half black) man may become President. They are the last vestiges of the ugly divide that has split this country since Abraham Lincoln read the Emancipation Proclamation.
Far right observers now use the tact that Democrats are racists, just look at the Dixiecrats of the days of yore. I have some news for them - the last Dixiecrat left the party for the GOP in about 1988. A few straggled along like Zell Miller into the early part of this century. Point is, if you are racist, you have a home in the party that can no longer be called Abraham Lincoln's.
With the impending voter suppression and caging that will take place on Election Day, I implore all good people no matter their politics to stand up and be counted when a person is being harassed at the polls and their right to vote put at peril. A lot of people died for that right - and a lot of people died at the hands of racists so we could assure that it was a civil right for all.
Not all Republicans are racists, but most racists tend to be Republican. They have a home in the GOP forged from forty years of division in this country.
Time for the division to end and the veil to be completely lifted on racism in this country,
In a way, I'm kind of glad that the Bushes voted for McCain. I mean, if they had voted the other way, like Scott M is doing, I might just have to re-evalute my support for Obama. :)
Matthew said...
To "GaMeS" -- Yes, the pretty little graph (yeah, I had to look, despite my bar license, I'm not yet sure what words are) shows that Obama's plan is a percent or two better in the middle class range. However, that's only true if you believe Obama can fully implement all of his programs while still sticking to his quoted numbers.
By that logic, then, you must similarly discount everything McCain wants to do. Moreso, in fact, because he would face a Congress controlled by the opposition.
Matthew said....
Personally, I do not believe he can, and I believe taxes will be going up for far more than just those making $250,000 or more.
And you have nothing but your own gut reaction to base this on. You think he's a "tax and spend liberal," so you just assume he's lying and will raise taxes on far more people.
Because, I don't know, you must think liberals get off on raising taxes or something.
Seriously, we don't like it, either. But unlike the moronic right-wing ideologues, we believe in paying our bills.
That Tax Policy Center article I linked to projects that McCain would add $1.5 trillion more to the debt than Obama would.
For all your talk about Obama's big spending programs, McCain would spend even more -- that tax cut is a giant earmark for the top 1%, welfare for the rich paid for by inflation that effectively taxes the middle & working class and debt that will burden our children and the unborn.
So, really, who's being irresponsible here?
It's a fact that as your income goes up, you spend more on investment and less on consumption. Taxes are an investment in our nation's future, building infrastructure, protecting our borders, rebuilding after disasters ... all the things that are just too fucking big to be done privately. Because you spend more on investment as you move up the income ladder, so too should you spend more on taxes as a part of that investment.
So, here's a question: Why are the right-wingers so damned opposed to investing in their own country?
Seriously, I don't get how these jackoffs can scoff at the idea that paying taxes is patriotic. Really? You think supporting our troops is not patriotic? Well, where do you think their body armor, bullet, humvees, etc. come from? The Army Fairy?
To me, these assholes are saying they value having an extra couple of percent on everything past the first couple MILLION in a single year more than they value the lives of the soldiers who are overseas being KILLED to defend the rights (and property!) of those same assholes.
They're motherfucking ingrates, if you ask me.
Matthew said ....
We're going to have damn near 60 democrats in the senate, you're crazy if you don't think it's going to be social-program-central the next 4 years.
So, again, your argument hinges on phantom programs that no one has suggested, that they will want to add to the budget just for shits and giggles?
And you really think that will catch up with the $1.5 trillion of extra debt McCain would add?
And, for that matter, what do you consider a "social program"?
* All of Obama's tax credits are dependent on the recipient working, so it's certainly not "welfare."
* Investing in infrastructure ("green collar jobs," developing alternative energy)? No, that's really "public works" ... so unless the Hoover Dam is a "social program," this isn't it.
* Helping to pay for college in return for community service? OK, that's arguably a "social program," but at the same time you're getting them to contribute directly to the community. As far as I'm concerned, that's no different from public works (hiring people to do stuff that the community needs), and it's directed in a way that is investing in infrastructure (i.e. an educated, competitive workforce). But I'll spot you that one if you want to call it a social program. =)
* Health care? Well, McCain has a plan for health care, too (and a giant tax hike on benefits to boot!), so it's not entirely fair to single this out. On top of that, the whole reason we need health care reform is because the system doesn't work when left to private industry, as evidenced by our skyrocketing costs vis-a-vis countries with universal programs. So, when you really think about it, this isn't a "social program" so much as an investment: People will have more money to spend elsewhere (good for the economy) and people will get better preventative health care (reduce future costs of medicare). But, again, I'll let you call this one a social program if you really want. =)
So, other than health care (which McCain also tries to address) and allowing students to work for tuition (which we already have at a smaller scale in "work-study" programs, and we're already providing Stafford loans, Pell grants, etc. anyway), I really don't see the giant government bogeyman you guys are always talking about.
Matthew....
And to be clear, I'm for small government, and believe that GWB is certainly the worst president of my lifetime.
Well, no disagreement there. The biggest difference between us is that I want "small government" as "not intrusive, not neglectful, and not bigger than necessary to fulfill these two criteria." Some public goods simply cannot be left to the private sector -- it's the prisoner's dilemma, the collective action problem, the tragedy of the commons. Basic game theory predicts it and empirical studies prove it -- and that's why I'm a liberal and fucking proud of it.
p.s. squie!
LMAO!!
A Comment about the Robbery Hoax Superstar Ashley Todd:
"What do you say to a McCain supporter with two black eyes? Nothing. You've already told her twice!"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/10/24/2008-10-24_police_john_mccain_volunteer_ashley_todd.html
She looks horrible in the picture.. she must be mentally ill..
Obama is the black Bill Clinton combined with Dwight Eisenhower. AKA complete dominance of democrats for at least 8 years unless the Palins get kicked out of the GOP
Ike was very steady and did the right thing. He had to foricbly integrate schools. A good choice. He was a good Republican long ago before the "Southern Strateg.y"
GaMeS said...
Yeah, that Ashley Todd thing almost had me pissing my pants with laughter. =)
Really, what kind of a fucking idiot (or, as my word verification might say, a "uredab") carves a BACKWARD "B" in their face? Like she didn't know that mirrors have a backward image?
I mean, that's like sub-chimp-level retarded.
====
Games,
I attended a high school whose initials were D.V.. It never failed that, at the football games, I would see more than one idiot who clearly had used the mirror when writing "DV" on their faces with face paint. I suppose they didn't realize that the rest of us saw "VD." I always got a good laugh out of it.
toelent is the magic word this time.Would have been funnier if it was "toelint."
What is the deal with that moron Fox exec? Yes, I know that is redundant.
How does this 20 year old stupid girls actions reflect on the candidates.
It sort of does on McCain, and not because she was working for the campaign. It is because, in typical incompetent fashion, he jumped all over it.
If it was true, how does that reflect on Obama or his campaign? It is not like it is the Obama campaign that has been stirring up hatred.
Kurt said...
Moonbeam said...
"foreverblu said...
'During the third debate, did you notice when McCain made such a big deal that Obama thought Joe the Plumber was "rich" because he earned $250,000. Now, that was a tone deaf remark.'"
....
Oh. My. God.
I just "got" this moment for the first time. McCain said "Congratulations Joe, you're rich!"
I thought he was saying "good on your for being a productive engine of the economy."
But he was being sarcastic. Insinuating that Joe's economic future was being held back (by taxes).
Is that how other people read it? Wowowow.
I remember McCain saying that and having a weird "huh?" feeling, and at the time I thought it was a botched prepared line or something ... and he had that creepy-ass grin on his face as if he was cracking a joke, but it didn't match what I thought he was saying. I couldn't put my finger on what it was that bothered me about it until just now.
It think you guys are right -- we was saying that $250K/year isn't rich. This concept by itself isn't hard to defend (well-off? sure, but not "rich"), but him saying it in such a scoffing, sarcastic way is going beyond that: "This idiot thinks that $250K is rich! HAH! I pay people $250K to wipe my ass!!!"
When a substantial number of people are making $25K, this really is a horribly tone-deaf way to come across. ("Hey! Turns out I have to make 10 times as much money to even get up to 'not rich'! Well, as long as those who really are rich get their tax cut, that's all that matters!!!")
What a minifi gaffe. =)
Obama = Our Reagan.
or our Barry Goldwater.
or our FDR.
This time the youth have spoken.
here in Pittsburgh, the lead story on all the news stattions is the hoax from the Todd girl. Tone is a little on the wasting taxpayer money and police time when we have "real crime" to deal with.
games: I am a long time lurker, first time poster. I had to do it to express my admiration at your response to Matthew. Wow! Thank you for articulating perfectly what I am constantly thinking while reading posts about the horror of taxes.
-diathral-
I would never compare Obama with Reagan or Goldwater
brerger
@sfergus483:
Well, there are some pretty big stories here in Western PA today: A major bank merger (PNC buying National City), a labor dispute in the regional transit system, a Steeler getting busted with pot, the Palin visit, and the sage of this sad young woman. Certainly the impact of the Barracuda's "major policy address" will be, umm, muted.
We've lived in Pittsburgh for 7-1/2 years, coming from DC. It's true that the Democrats around here are on the conservative side, but they're still conservative Democrats. The local suburbs are Republican-leaning, but for the most part they aren't wingnuts; they just don't especially like paying taxes.
With the enormous registration advantage Democrats enjoy here, I'm hard-pressed to believe that McCain could make enough inroads in Western PA to swing the state if he had 11 years, let alone 11 days.
"listicc"
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/pains-makeup-stylist-fetches-highest-salary-in-2-week-period/?hp
So, Palin's makeup artist gets 22,800 for the first two weeks of October, and her hair stylist gets 10,000.
Just another regular gal.
It's over for McCain.
KY, TN, AR, LA too.
Stop pretending it's not over stop being a concern troll ANYONE! But still vote. Vote early... and vote once.
"Mule Rider with ID ending 424 has intelligent discourse.
Mule Rider with ID ending 549 is a nametroll."
Actually, neither is intelligent and I suspect it is the same person posting with both accounts. The AssRider of old was very bi-polar. The "name troll" posts the exact same crap the real Ass Rider posts when he is off his meds. The Ass Rider posts the same jibberish minus the hate when he is on meds.
It is simply the case that each mood swing has its own Mule Rider account. He has a love/hate relationship with attention and this is the best way to get it.
Either way Ass Rider is a dumb ass troll that needs to be banned if not outright ignored.
With all due respect, your assumption that Governor Douglas is "safe" doesn't tell the whole story. There is a very real possibility that Governor Douglas wins a plurality of votes but loses the election. Unless he wins more that 50%, the legislature (which has veto proof majorities in both the House and Senate in favor of the Democrats) will then make the call. There is a good chance that the Progressive or Democratic candidate could throw his or her support to the candidate that took more votes between the two. If that were to happen, then, arguably, the State House could, with some level of confidence that it wouldn't come back to bite them in the butt, vote for either Pollina or Symington... This is NOT a done deal for Governor Douglas, and he knows it. If it was, he wouldn't be running such an aggressive campaign. Finally, there's a darn good chance that, given the state of our State, those folks that Governor Douglas is counting on right now decide, while they're voting for Obama, to go ahead and vote for either Pollina or Symington as well!
There once was a eunuch named mule rider
Who's asshole could not have been wider
He was often obscene
In truth rather mean
But as a whore he's quite a provider
Mule Rider said...
Here's a joke for you libruls, how many blacks can you get into the white house at one time?
I'm guessing two: Obama as president and Colin Powell as a cabinet member, probably something defense-related. Which is of coiurse the same number that Bush had in his first term (Powell and Rice).
(Of course, one could argue that Rice is more authentically 'black' than either Powell or Obama.)
One thing that strikes me when McCain keeps talking about Obama's "spread the wealth" comment, is that many Americans who are struggling probably like the idea of spreading the wealth, but McCain doesn't realize it. He only thinks from the viewpoint of a rich person.
That struck me, too -- I really thought it was a counterproductive line for McCain. Particularly in the weeks following press reports about Wall Street bankers giving themselves huge bonuses and then getting bailed out by the government, and in a year when the wealth disparity between the rich and the middle class in the US had finally reached levels only seen once before, just before the Great Depression.
Real Joe said...
2 votes for McCain
If one of the Obama supporters here posted "2 votes for Obama", you'd be asking hium about voter fraud. I'm just going to assume that you found asomeone as misguided as yourself who'd marry you.
I can say with 90% certainty he was referencing George and Laura Bush's votes for McCain.
Someone in McCain HQ: 'Hey I got an idea! In the midst of a financial crisis spurred on by greed and excess in the finance sector, resulting in a $1 trillion dollar bailout by the taxpayers, while those CEOs responsible take multi-million dollar severance packages, all while our campaign supports an indefinite war costing $3B/week, let's focus our economic rhetoric on opposing any tax increases for the wealthy and use a fictitious plumber making $250K as our mascot.'
McCain: 'Hmmm, I like it. Let's take it one step further and insinuate those opposed to this game plan are socialists.'
Semi-competent adviser: 'But you yourself opposed those same tax cuts in question.'
McCain team in unison: 'And your point?'
I can't imagine why it isn't resonating with the middle class.
Neo-conservative Republican dude just came out for Barack on Hardball. He went even further by saying McCain is displaying signs of senility and that Palin is a frightening prospect. Hmmm....
I e-mailed 538 requesting that Mule Rider be outed from this forum. I'm all for free speech but once you start bandying threats about, you've crossed the line. Personally, I'd like to track his server down and prosecute him but I'll settle for a concerted effort to get this offensive troll out of here.
Join me? 538dotcom@gmail.com
MrInsight22 wrote:
"Maybe McCain is trying to lose"
I've been considering this seriously for a while.
Was choosing Palin his masterstroke, not his fatal error?
Is ignoring (or at least under-schmoozing) the battlegrounds in VA, PA and OH totally deliberate?
But why should he do this?
Perhaps he sees it as his last great act of public service. Perhaps he's so appalled by the the kind of party the GOP has become that he wants to force a cathartic choice on it. Either it sticks with the neocons and the religious right, dooming itself to irrelevance in a USA which WILL be changed by Obama, or it purges itself, or even splits into two conservative groupings, one full of maniacs, and one not.
Or perhaps it's more personal, it's McCain's revenge on Bush for 2000, a dish best served cold - i.e. once Bush is out in the cold and can't do anything about it.
Just my 3 cents' worth of food for thought.
This presidential election is more than just an historic event, it is a defining moment in our history. Barack Obama will be one of the greatest presidents that we have ever had.
John McCain might have been a better choice in 2000, he is not the change America needs now. He has 10 days left in his campaign to salvage his reputation and heal wounds within his own party.
McCain often reminds us that he has been reaching across the aisle for 26 years. If McCain doesn't finish this campaign with dignity and humility, nobody will be reaching back across the aisle to him when he returns to the US Senate.
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