10.03.2008

McCain and Michigan

I never had the chance to comment on yesterday's big news that the McCain campaign is pulling out of Michigan and re-directing those resources to other states. To evaluate this strategy, we need to ask at least three distinct questions:

1) Was the McCain campaign spread too thin?
2) If so, was Michigan the right state to pull out of?
3) Are they redirecting those resources to the right states?

1) Was the McCain campaign spread too thin?

The Obama campaign has essentially succeeded in what it wanted to do: forcing McCain to play a big map. While Obama has had to give up on a couple of states they had hoped to compete in originally -- North Dakota, Alaska, and maybe Montana -- they have been able to maintain tight races in states like North Carolina and Indiana, as well as all of the states that people expected to be swing states to begin with, like Virginia and Colorado, as well as the more traditional battlegrounds like Ohio and Florida.

McCain's problems ultimately stem back to the early summer, when his campaign decided to throw a ton of money into negative advertising rather than to build a robust field operation. That decision might have "worked" in the near term, as McCain chipped Obama's lead down from about 5 points in mid-June to a virtual tie heading into the conventions. But, as with many McCain campaign decisions, it may have been one more engineered to win the battle rather than the war, as Obama's position has bounced back with surprising vigor in the past two weeks, and the Britney Spears ads now seem like a distant and irrelevant memory.

That said, the McCain campaign can't go back and redo the resource allocation decisions it made in June, and pulling out of one or more states may be the correct adaptation to the current milieu. I suspect the facts that North Carolina and Florida have shown especially strong numbers for Obama and now clearly require their attention were major motivating factors behind their decision.

2. Was Michigan the right state to pull out of?

If you look at yesterday's return on investment index in the four large Kerry states that McCain had hoped to compete in, this is debatable:

Michigan         2.4
Pennsylvania 1.9
Minnesota 1.9
Wisconsin 1.7
That is, Michigan actually appeared to be a slightly better place to spend their marginal resources than states like Pennsylvania or Wisconsin; a dollar there goes about 2.4 times as far as one spent in an average state. However, the differences are not large, and certainly within the range where McCain's internal polling could plausibly have informed his decision. In addition, we are not yet reflecting the new SurveyUSA poll that actually shows McCain with a 1-point lead in Minnesota. So Michigan is probably as reasonable a place to pull out of as anywhere else.

With that said, I know that as of a couple of weeks ago, the Obama campaign had been more worried about Michigan than any of these other three states. Also, according to the New York Times, they had held three events in Michigan since Mid-September, as compared with two in Wisconsin, one in Pennsylvania, and none in Minnesota. So I suspect they'll be pretty relieved not to have to compete there.

3) Are they redirecting those resources to the right states?

We have less information about where the McCain campaign is putting resources into than where they are pulling out of, but Jonathan Martin's article reels off a whole litany of states, including Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and the first second Congressional District of Maine (which our return on investment index thinks is a smart decision). All of these states are perfectly reasonable ones to put resources into, although Wisconsin, where Obama overperformed during the primaries, which has same-day registration, and which the Obama campaign can flood with volunteers from Illinois is on Election Day, is tenuous.

There is also a question about whether Minnesota and Wisconsin offer large enough electoral prizes. If Obama wins the Kerry states plus Iowa, New Mexico, Colorado and Virginia -- all states where it appears to hold significant leads -- he would still have a winning map if he lost Minnesota or Wisconsin, but could not win without Pennsylvania.

On the whole, however, this is a pretty reasonable reaction to what has become a very tough election for McCain. But remember that Obama campaign now gets to pull its resources out of Michigan too, although there are some sunk costs (like rent paid on field offices) that it won't be able to recoup.

133 comments

Genevieve said...

Gallup Daily Tracking

O: 49
M: 42

neil said...

what state will be next? NH going by the polls today.

John said...

Nail. Coffin. Period.

John M. said...

SUSA MN crosstabs seem pretty unlikely.

18-34 22% O 47-43
35-49 35% (!) M 55-39(!!!)
50-64 23% O 49-44
65+ 19% O 52-42

So Obama's best group is 65+, and he's behind because he's losing a giant group of 35-49 year olds by a massive margin?

Groucho-Marxist said...

This morning NPR reported that the resources from Michigan are going into Indiana. Apparently Team McCain is regretting their ignoring of a stalwartly GOP state that's threatening to tip for the first time in a generation.

Looks like Obama's strategy is working - make them fight for loyal states, and pick off a couple for the win.

Another Mike said...

SUSA seems to consistently poll Obama's support among younger voters at a much lower level than just about every other pollster. I'm guessing the cell phone effect since they do not call cell phones.

STepper said...

The Hurricane Campaign's spin is that he has states in the bag with 260 Electoral votes and needs to wrap up one of three states, including Pennsylvania, Minnesota or Ohio. Sure. I guess they have to pull the wool over their eyes and pretend they're still competitive in order not to lose tight down the ticket races. And pray for Rapture.

Did Palin actually use 3 x 5 cards last night?

Real Joe said...

bailout vote going on

Zac said...

It strikes me as a smart move by McCain. They have seem to have had better luck in PA than MI for most of the year.

Here's a scenario that looks quite promising for them. First, they compete hard in CO. But even if McCain loses the Kerry States + IA, NM and CO, they still could win the election by flipping NH + the 1 Maine EV.

If this is the case, they are banking on closing the overall popular vote gap, allowing them to prevail in all the hard defensive states (OH, VA, NC, FL, NV).

I'd be curious to know if the simulations where McCain loses the popular vote but wins the electrol college consist of this map (minus obviously the 1 Maine EV).

PorridgeGun said...

Okay, what's the deal with Battleground?

Yesterday, they had Obama +5, and this morning it was Obama +7. Now it's down to Obama +3. WTF?

Blame said...

Obama won't close down the offices. He will staff them almost entirly with volenteers and keep up most of the GOTV, at least for now. He has to assume that the RNC & 527's will keep advertising. That will allow him to fight limited GOP cash with enthusiasm.

Besides, he can probably break even selling lawn signs.

raj said...

Heard they're stepping up in Maine of all places.

New England ... for McCain!

Christopher said...

That would be hilarious if McCain were moving his resources into Indiana. That would be checkmate. Indiana isn't even all that necessary. It's the cherry on the landslide.

Looks like the Obama strategy is working at stretching the other candidate too thin and slowly wearing them down. Where have we heard that before?

Jordan said...

McCain might be pulling out of Michigan, but will the RNC stop? If not, Obama can't really just pull their resources can they?

Real Joe said...

Maine is too blue for us

Real Joe said...

bailout passed

Continue to Spread the Word!!! said...

BAILOUT PASSES.

I am upset with McCain pulling out of Michigan. Palin wants to stay, but I assume the internal polling isn't pretty. I am guessing Minnesota and Wisconsin look better for him, and that +1 is fabulous for McCain, though it is probably an outlier.

This bailout passes, time for the tide to change. John McCain, you have 4 weeks, get it done!

Blame said...

THe 1 Main vote was yesterdays good idea.

Today there has been 2 polls in New Hampshire that paint it deap blue. Without it, I can't find a plausable combination that gives McCain exactly 269+1.

Randall said...

It's annoying that intrade just lists the EV totals, since what we're really interested in is probabilities of each candidate winning.

I've put together a tool that takes the Intrade state-by-state prices and runs them through a Monte Carlo sim like the one used here (mine uses 100,000 runs instead of 10,000 because I'm more manly). You can see the results here:

http://xkcd.com/intrade

But a neat side-effect of this is that I can run hypotheticals -- "what if McCain is guaranteed to lose state X but everything else fits the current Intrade probabilities?" In the case of Michigan, McCain was at a 20% chance of winning. Pulling out, putting him at 0%, has the effect of about two percentage points on his chances. Probably better used in Florida or Ohio.

McCain's win chances:
With Michigan: 18.3%
With yesterday's chance in Michigan: 10.3%
Without Michigan: 8.3%

(As Nate would be quick to point out, this model isn't necessarily an accurate predictor, since states aren't independent and things are likely to swing groups of states at once. This is simply asking what would happen if all the Intrade probabilities accurately and independently described the candidates' chances in each state.)

jakam said...

Yeah, those SUSA Minnesota numbers are garbage. Nate should feed them into his model, and let his model laugh at them as it digests it.

Rich (vtslayer) said...

I think that this move reflects the McCain campaign's recognition of the facts: their only path to victory now is really Bush states minus IA and NM. McCain has to play huge defense in FL, VA, CO, and OH. He has to win NH. And he cannot lose any of the close Bush states. McCain just doesn't have the money left to run that kind of campaign, nor does he have the money left to plow into a huge nation-wide negative ad campaign which might bring Obama down over-all. This is a desperation move, but it's about the only one left to him.

nirad said...

a bit offtopic, but anyone have the crosstabs on this poll? ;-)
McCain losing core Republican voter bloc

Anne U. said...

I'll be interested to hear what Nate says about MN. I find it hard to believe. It says Obama is only winning the Twin Cities by 3 points? No way.

Posit said...

How are the spammers going to spin this one?

Waving the white flag of surrender in Michigan is great news!!! FOR JOHN MCCAIN!!!

???

Paul said...

Dumb question:

If McCain still had a slight chance in Michigan, and his pulling out prompts Obama to also pull out, doesn't McCain still have the same slight chance that he had before?

In other words, should Obama still spend a little in Michigan to make sure McCain pays for his decision to leave?

Floyd said...

What about Indiana where as of now McCain campaign has spent whooping $64 on advertising... would not that be his primary concern now given the unexpected tied race there?

Anne U. said...

>How are the spammers going to spin this one

They are actually spinning it--I kid you not--that this was McCain's plan all along. Making Obama think he had a chance in red states and having him spend money there, and then SWOOPING IN at the last minute.

MAVRICKY!

sunkid said...

McCain's campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan seems to have left some Republicans scratching their heads too, at least judging from Rollins' comments on CNN last night. Although the guy had lost a lot of credibility with me when he started scoring for Palin the moment she walked on stage, he did have a point when he said that the RNC has enough money to stay in MN.

JustAGuy8282 said...

Elon North Carolina:

Obama 44 McCain 42
(Previous O 35 M 41; Obama is up nine, McCain down one)

The wording on the poll raises some flags, if you ask me ("When asked who would do a better job managing the economy") but it's being reported as a O 44 M 42 head to head.

http://www.elon.edu/e-web/elonpoll/100308.xhtml

Rich Merritt said...

Guess this kills the theory that Palin is going to withdraw for family reasons so McCain can substitute Romney in a last-minute bid for Michigan. Would Romney have helped in MI anyway? Is McCain cursing himself for choosing Palin instead of Romney?

Rich Merritt

Mainer said...

It's the second congressional district of Maine McCain will try to poach, not the first cd.

Bush tried, too, in both 2000 and 2004 and didn't make it. Not only is the economy in especially poor shape in the 2nd cd, but the Obama campaign is extremely energized and well-organized. Obama got 10,000 people to see him in Bangor before the caucuses, a huge crowd for Maine. McCain came in second in the Republican caucuses, not far ahead of Ron Paul.

It's certainly in the realm of possibility that McCain could get the district, but it's not an easy reach. We'll see how seriously they take it by who shows up. There were rumors that week that Palin was coming but no announcement.

Jack said...

On McCain's reallocation:

Except for the big traditional battlegrounds (OH and FL), all the places McCain is reallocating resources to are offensive. He doesn't realize he's on the defensive. No NC? No MO? No IN? While 1 ME may be good for ROI it certainly isn't a big enough prize when you're behind. It's a good play for Obama to go after NE-2 because he has the luxury of money and a lead.

sunkid said...

... that should have been MI, of course :(

Here is more on the GOP reaction to the campaign's decision: http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/03/mi-gop-calls-mccain-decision-tough-blow/

Steve said...

It is amazing to me that in the end McCain will have failed in a way not all that different from how Hillary failed during the primaries. Failure to see the bigger/biggest picture and plan strategy accordingly. Given the additional advantage McCain had of watching the primary campaign through May, one would have thought their lessons would be drawn first and foremost from her actions or lack of.
Instead they basically took over Hillary's strategies and pressed them further.
The Obama campaign meanwhile stuck to an incredible amount of prep work and research done by Plouffe and Co., ignored distractions, played the 50-state strategy extremely well given the circumstances, gambled on turning down public financing, gambled on rejecting the town-halls and basically ran a flawless campaign January through October.
I can't wait to read the insider book. (Plouffe, you are going to write a book right?)

sarah marshall said...

Typically erratic behavior from McCain: he says to Obama in debate that it's crazy to reveal your strategy (re. international diplomacy) and then he does it himself. So he had to withdraw from Michigan. It would have been smarter to re-allocate resources much more quietly. Talk about white flags!

kurt said...

As a Badger (albeit in Madison), I will be VERY surprised if Wisconsin is in play. Same day voter reg is very friendly to Obama. Already, we're getting a lot of IL volunteers for things like monitoring polls election day. Obama drew 15K to Lacrosse which the campaign sees as entirely gravy (their win scenario doesn't expect much out of there).

I also think MN will be relatively safely blue. Obama just started voter protection up there (we share resources) and may have let things slide a little, but it will shore up.

Up here, Palin played pretty well in getting the base out (and we love our hockey). We saw a short term bump with her that I think made it a race again. However, negative ads don't work well up here at all, and if McCain goes that direction, look for it to crumble. That's what did Hillary in during the primary... remember her going negative and losing WI by 17 points?

Cnt Zro said...

Nate, I think he will be going into Maine's second district primarily. The first district includes Portland and is strong Obama. The Portland headquarters actually calls second district households looking for support. Because of the geographic breakdowns of the state, however, the TV ad buying will be across the state, and portland ads will run in NH. Time to get a TIVO.

roryburns said...

"While Obama has had to give up on a couple of states they had hoped to compete in originally -- North Dakota, Alaska, and maybe Montana --"

Pulling out of MT would be a folly for Obama - none of the polling here has taken the Ron Paul effect into account. What's going on is Ron Paul will be on the MT ballot as the Constitution Party candidate for the GE. Ron Paul beat McCain in MT in the GOP caucus (although Romney took the state)and will take a large number of votes from McCain's totals. Until there are polls out that take Paul into account and still show McCain with a sizable lead, MT still looks good for Obama.

JPGoldberg said...

You say

McCain's problems ultimately stem back to the early summer, when his campaign decided to throw a ton of money into negative advertising rather than to build a robust field operation.


I think that even then McCain didn't have a choice. Until the selection of Palin, McCain didn't have a large enough pool of volunteers for a robust field operation. Even if he threw a lot of money behind it, it would have pretty much been the paid operatives only.

jonathan said...

"Looks like Obama's strategy is working - make them fight for loyal states, and pick off a couple for the win".

Every strategy looks like it's working when you're up by 7!

PorridgeGun said...

Here's what I woke up to this morning.


Obama McCain

Research 2000: 51 (51) 40 (40)

Battleground: 50 (49) 43 (44)

Rasmussen: 51 (51) 44 (44)





Seriously, are Battleground at the capers again?

wheels said...

Here's my typically Minnesotan response to the notion that McCain can win there.

1. MN also has same day voter registration.
2. MN hasn't gone for a republican since 1972. Only DC can claim a longer streak.
3. It's the state of Paul Wellstone, for the love of Pete.
4. Minnesota, along with Wisconsin and Iowa, has had one of the highest HS graduation rates, and one of the highest rates of people seeking higher education, in the country, which favors Obama.

Every dollar McCain spends in MN is wasted.

Alex S. said...

Nate, I agree with your argument that McCain went for tactical gains in the summer, instead of building an organization. It is hilarious, but the McCain campaign doesn´t understand the difference between tactics and strategy!
Just like the SURGE was a tactic, not a strategy!

Every politican is twisting the truth to his own advantage. Sometimes you spin it in a way that your argument is only half true. But the McCain campaign is in fact spinning the facts 180 degrees against reality!

realistxxx said...

Rich Merritt said...
Guess this kills the theory that Palin is going to withdraw for family reasons so McCain can substitute Romney in a last-minute bid for Michigan. Would Romney have helped in MI anyway? Is McCain cursing himself for choosing Palin instead of Romney?

--------------

Results-based analysis of hypotheticals is usually flawed. It's like leaving a pitcher in to face an extra batter in the 8th and him giving up a 3-run HR to lose the game. "HE SHOULD HAVE PULLED HIM!!!!!!!!"

Now that McCain is trailing badly, Romney looks better, but we would have never known what would have happened immediately after the pick. Palin clearly energized the campaign and helped with McCain doing better in the polls right away. It reminds of all of the discussion about HRC versus Biden when Obama was lagging a bit.

In the absence of knowing the econmic crisis was coming and that McCain would be tanking in the polls I believe a Romney pick would have been slightly better than the Palin one, but it wasn't a no brainer before the fact. I also don't think it would have changed the outcome of the election because VP's almost never do.

Randall said...

> Today there has been 2 polls in New Hampshire that paint it deap blue. Without it, I can't find a plausable combination that gives McCain exactly 269+1.

Out of curiosity, I ran that through an Intrade sim. The most frequent (still rare) McCain-270 scenario was where Obama got Kerry+IA+CO+NV except McCain got Minnesota. Another was Obama Kerry+IA+CO+NV+MT and McCain got PA. Unlikely-sounding.

sethdavis said...

Winning the battle but losing the war? It seems Senator McCain does not understand the difference between strategy and tactics. Ha ha ha.

Eric said...

Eric said...
If Obama has a mandate with 60 senators and a landslide electorate. What will he od with it?

Universal Healthcare: Check

End Iraq War: Check

Create Kennedy to the moon like Energy policy : Check

Deal with Darfur and Afg/Pak: Check

Educational opportunites for everyone: Check

Oil ompanies and rich pay more taxes, everyone else pay less: Check

Infrastructure focus: Check

Restored standing in the world: Check

Mandate for Dems: PRICELESS

Blame said...

Don't panic. Mccain will attack Main with all the determination of his "suspended" campaign.

Without NH main is worthless.

anonymous said...

"Looks like the Obama strategy is working at stretching the other candidate too thin and slowly wearing them down. Where have we heard that before?"

Vietnam, late 60s-early 70s? /rimshot


Its looking bleak for McCain, thats for sure. Thanks to his incredibly stable performance thus far (ha!) he's handicapped his campaign--he needs to shake things up, but he's already tagged himself as an unstable drama queen. So any further shake-ups cannot appear to come from him directly or he'll just appear to be totally unstable and unfit.

Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...

Cutting and running is WONDERFUL NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!

Randall said...

Correction -- that first one was Kerry+IA+CO+NM+NV, the second was Kerry+IA+CO+NM+MT. I get NV and NM mixed up :)

raj said...

Randall,

McCain winning PA or MN based on Intrade results sounds realistic only if you think Intrade measures a more realistic result than 538, RCP or Pollster's averaged state polls.

Put it this way, if you do a Monte Carlo based on Intrade (national not state) data, Hillary Clinton could win some simulations (she has a non-zero price share). This is clearly unrealistic.

fred said...

A pro-life group is running ads in central WI accusing BO of voting to kill babies. Saw the article this morning.

Wesley said...

Whoa... The Randall Munroe? I'm star-struck.

nirad said...

McCain's strategy of going for PA or the upper midwest makes no sense. He can still possibly win this if he holds on to traditional swing states OH, FL and wins VA & NV, and spends some serious money to win CO.

Real Joe said...

fred said...
A pro-life group is running ads in central WI accusing BO of voting to kill babies

some good news for us finally :-)

where the big 527 attack dogs ??

i have a cheque for them

Real Joe said...

where are the big 527 attack dogs ??

i have a cheque for them

Rich Merritt said...

Eric said...
"If Obama has a mandate with 60 senators and a landslide electorate. What will he od with it?

Universal Healthcare: Check

End Iraq War: Check

Create Kennedy to the moon like Energy policy : Check

Deal with Darfur and Afg/Pak: Check

Educational opportunites for everyone: Check

Oil ompanies and rich pay more taxes, everyone else pay less: Check

Infrastructure focus: Check

Restored standing in the world: Check

Mandate for Dems: PRICELESS"

UNFORTUNATELY
Like FDR, Obama will have a contrarian Supreme Court, his "four horsemen of the apocalypse" being Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito, with Kennedy joining them frequently. (Hmmm, wonder how many of those Palin could name.)

Like in FDR's case, this court will become the most "activist" court in a generation, striking down every Obama initiative they can. If we were God-fearing Republicans, we'd pray for God to strike one of our "enemies" on the court dead. But we're not. So we have to hope one of these guys comes to his senses and switches sides, preferably the Chief Roberts.

Interesting, the Supreme Court convenes the new session Monday. Let's hope they aren't the body deciding the outcome of McCain v. Obama.

Rich Merritt.com

realistxxx said...

INTRADE:

Obama 68.2 (+3.2)

McCain 31.5 (-2.9)

An air of inevitability is settling in.

Eric said...

I'm trying to visualize an electorate that actualy swings toward McCain, I can't see it at this point. There's no reason to vote FOR either McCain or Palin. McCain got elected to the House of Representatives in 1982 by exploiting his POW status, his wife's money, and Charles Keating's pull. He brings nothing to the table. I acknowledge strengths of my opponents. He has none. That's for real. I'm not sure why getting shot down in a war we eventually lost makes you a strong foreign policyl eader who know s how to win wars. What are you talking about? All I see is a fly off the handle, belligerent whom I don't want in charge. See Dr. Strangelove. Palin is useless, Joe Scarborough said he doesn't think she's a true ideologue, she adopted the spekaing points as a power grab. She's the most unqualified candidate I've ever seen run for any office in politics. They say she's an epxert in energy. Clearly she's not. For God's sake, the only thing she knows something about is oil. ush and Cheney likely know more about oil than she does. So what exactly does she bring to the table? My point is if you have no reason to vote for your ticket, you have to create a referendum on the other guy/gal and have him/her fail. Obama has earned his stripes with enough voters that this thing is over barring something ridiculous happening.

yiannis said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

Randall,

Just want to say I love your webcomic. Bought an "I'm about to do science t-shirt" awhile back - my lab mates love it! :)

yiannis said...

While I don't believe that McCain is ahead in MN, the race there is closer than most people think.

You have two polls (Ras at +8 and CNN at +12) and 4-5 that show it a tie.

I am a bit concerned about WI, MN and PA but we're doing well.

+11 at R2000
+7 at Gallup
+7 at Ras
+7 At Hotline

Real Joe said...

realistxxx said...
INTRADE:

Obama 68.2 (+3.2)

McCain 31.5 (-2.9)

An air of inevitability is settling in.


noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...........

Jeremy said...

Seems like McCain's presidential hopes got shot down in Michigan...familiar theme in this goofball's history.

Randall said...

> McCain winning PA or MN based on Intrade results sounds realistic only if you think Intrade measures a more realistic result than 538, RCP or Pollster's averaged state polls.

I think it tends to follow 538/RCP consensus pretty well. There's nothing magical about intrade -- it's just a pretty good summary of the informed consensus (and I reckon quite a bit of that consensus comes from 538's analysis itself).

Anyway, Clinton could not win. The odds against winning 270 votes with 3% in each state are virtually zero, and that result wouldn't show up in any Monte Carlo runs (her actual chances would be higher than MC would suggest, since if she actually wins one state, chances are something crazy happened and she might do well in others too).

Anyway, it's moot -- she is not in the state-by-state polls. It's just "DEM", "REP", and "FIELD", and I ignore "FIELD" since the DEM and REP contracts generally sum to 100 and FIELD is not really being traded anywhere.

(Part of the reason I did this was so I'd have something to watch on election night that responded quickly to exit polls by doing the full combinatorics, not just the "Hmm, McCain's winning Ohio -- how does that change things?" whiteboard speculation. I'm sure Nate will have liveblogging, but I don't know if he'll rerun his sims based on exit polls or anything.)

Juris said...

TYPOS: "where Obama overperformed during the primaries, which has same-day registration, and which the Obama campaign can flood with volunteered from Illinois is needed, is tenuous."

SHOULD BE . . . "can flood with volunteerS from Illinois IF needed. . . ."

Great analysis.

Robby said...

Randall

I love your comic. I'm glad to hear you're a poll junkie too.

InkStain said...

There's a floor and a ceiling on intrade where people are buying with their hearts and not their heads.

This election isn't turning out to be particularly exciting. Then again, neither are the Cubs.

Anne U. said...

fred said...
A pro-life group is running ads in central WI accusing BO of voting to kill babies

Real joe said...
some good news for us finally :-)


You must be so proud!

Brandon said...

fred said...
A pro-life group is running ads in central WI accusing BO of voting to kill babies


I just saw this abhorrent ad. It is absolutely disgusting.

They are making a big mistake running it here in Central Wisconsin. Madison and Dane county will go 60-70% for Barack Obama and they are just antagonizing us to get out there and volunteer more and more.

I'll be canvassing this weekend because I can't take the right-wing smears anymore.

Strangeite said...

Randall: I love xkcd!

I wonder how many other celebrities we have lurking around on 538. ;)

Eric said...

Ink,

You think it's unfair that California has about a 90% chance of at least one team making the playoffs in MLB every year? That seems really unfair to the rest of the league to me.

MATT J. H. said...

We must wait and see how the electorate reacts to the next disruption in the campaign. Maybe a foreign policy crisis?

It's not over yet, It will likely tighten over the next 5 weeks, the good news is i have complete faith in the Obama campaign. These guys are re-writing the book on campaigning. If the white house is run as well as this campaign, the country is in good shape.

realistxxx said...

Randall,

What happens to McCain's chances at 270 if he is 100% guaranteed to lose FL or IN?

Thx

Mason said...

Nate:
That's ME-2 (LA, Bangor, The County), not ME-1 (OOB, Portland, Augusta).

Stuart said...

Wesley: "Whoa... The Randall Munroe? I'm star-struck."

Me too! What all the baseball fans were thinking when Nate outed himself - that's approximately what us geeks feel seeing Randall posting a comment here.

Incidentally, a couple of nights ago I was up until 2am playing a flash game. Two days later: http://xkcd.com/484/

I guess I need to join the chorus of "Randall, get the hell out of my head!"

Wesley said...

Ok so according to our celebrity guest, the in-trade price for obama is slightly inflated compared to our nearly psychic projections here. Does that mean some money is to be made by buying up McCain while it's still low and then selling it off in a week or two?

I've never actually done intrade, just watched it in recent weeks.

kellysirkus said...

Pennsylvania will be the next Ship that McCain JUMPS from.
This is going exactly as planned.
Whose laughing at the Community Organizer now?

J said...

Who the hell are they trying to pull in with the "killing babies" ads? This country by an overwhelming margin supports Roe v. Wade.

Real Joe said...

McCain Campaign ~ Best Campaign Ever ~

Real Joe said...

any more polls coming out today ?

Wesley said...

Yes Real Joe

Fox News
Texas - Pres.
Obama 45
McCain 46

Michael said...

Obama's operation won't withdraw from Michigan, because they need to protect the votes of all the foreclosed people that the Michigan Republican Party has been trying to cage and prevent from being able to vote. Let's not forget that wholesale vote fraud can steal elections.

RWD said...

"where are the big 527 attack dogs ??

i have a cheque for them"

Ok, joe, you just outed yourself. Where are you from? I've never met anyone from the USA who calls it a cheque.

PorridgeGun said...

Nate, I take it you're already on this, yeah?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7297262

Randall said...

> What happens to McCain's chances at 270 if he is 100% guaranteed to lose FL or IN?

If you're asking about *exactly* 270 votes:

If he loses Florida, he has no realistic exactly-270 scenarios. The only ones that come up involve McCain taking California.

If he loses Indiana, he could get 270 if he gets Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, but Obama takes Kerry+IA+NM+CO+NV.

If you're just asking about winning period (more likely, in retrospect):

With IN and FL: 17.3%
Without Indiana: 5.9%
Without Florida: 4.0%
Without Either: 2.5%

realistxxx said...

Wesley said...
Yes Real Joe

Fox News
Texas - Pres.
Obama 45
McCain 46

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Linky?

BTW Obama has matched his all time high on RCP-National today at 49.2. The previous time he was this high was at the peak of his post convention bounce.

It appears he has a new set point which is very close to the magical 50%.

OTF said...

PA worse for McCain than MI.
PA: O +7.9
MI: O +7
He should couold be pulling out of PA soon too and go compeletely defensive of the 8 Bush states and try to run the table.

RCP polling averages of Blue states McCain competing in:

WI O +5
MN O +5
NH O +5.6
PA O +7.9
McCain has no real good offensive options all polling outside the MOE



RCP averages McCain defensive states: He has to hold every one to have a shot and he trails in 6 of the 8

IN M +2.2
MO M +1.7
NC O +0.5
NV O +0.5
OH O +2
VA O +2.4
Fl O +3
CO O +4.4

Alex S. said...

McCain needs to face it, he is behind. So he should look at the map and look at the states he is closest to Obama, while yet behind. Pennsylvania is NOT one of them, not anymore. Going for Maine is useless, too. It´s probably just one EV. He should go to Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and Indiana. Of course, it´s damn hard to build a state organization within a week and you only have 4 weeks left... well, that´s what a bad strategy does to you! But if you don´t, Obama will win North Carolina, Indiana, and Missouri - where McCain has no organization. And Pennsylvania won´t help him, because it´s only 21 EV McCain might gain, while he loses up to 37 EV in the other states.
McCain should DEFEND the primary swing states (Virginia, Colorado, Nevada, Florida, Ohio) and hope that he somehow gains a few percent nationwide so that he carries the secondary swing states (North Carolina, Indiana, Missouri) by momentum.

I know, McCain wants to go for Pennsylvania so he can "broaden the playing field". But that is just a losing move! He has to face it, he is behind, he must defend. Ok, his temperament probably tells him to attack, take the war into enemy territory. But the attack will always make you bleed more than defense if you don´t break through the enemy lines. And that´s something McCain has not achieved and will not achieve.
McCain has to: play culture war ads in Ohio, play the race card in Virginia and Florida, get folsky with elder voters in Florida, criticize Obama on immigration in Nevada and Colorado and excite the evangelicals and mormons there with conservative populism (Huckabee would have been great for that).

Wesley said...

realistxxx

Oh I was kidding. Just thought I'd give a couple of people who refresh these comments too much whiplash.

Paul said...

I know that a sinking economy helps Obama, but I don't know how much.

Michigan has the worst unemployment rate in the country. Other economic metrics are also down low. If McCain believes that the Michigan economy will continue to decay farther than other states, then it makes sense for him to write it off.

Randall said...

> the in-trade price for obama is slightly inflated compared to our nearly psychic projections here. Does that mean some money is to be made by buying up McCain while it's still low and then selling it off in a week or two?

Well, the specific state-by-state prices. But the important thing to remember is that there are good reasons the overall Obama-to-win intrade price could be lower than what is suggested by all the state-by-state prices. States tend to move together, so just because two states are at 60% Obama doesn't mean his chances of winning at least one are 84%, like you (and a simple Monte Carlo) would expect. They could just be 60%, if the two states are guaranteed to move together.

realistxxx said...

Randall said...


If you're just asking about winning period (more likely, in retrospect):

With IN and FL: 17.3%
Without Indiana: 5.9%
Without Florida: 4.0%
Without Either: 2.5%

-------------

I was asking 270 or greater. Thanks for the quick reply. Really cool stuff you're doing!

That's amazing that with 16 less electoral votes IN has only 1.9% less impact.

This highlights the O-camp's smarts in targeting IN and how dumb the McCain camp was to ignore it.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Watching McCain react to polls kind of reminds me of Bagdad Bob doesn't it?

fred said...

Randall Munroe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Munroe

Randall Patrick Munroe (born October 17, 1984) is a programmer best known for creating the webcomic xkcd. He and the webcomic have developed a cult following, and he is one of a very small group of webcomic artists who are self-sufficient.[1]

Eric said...

There is a distinct possibility that Florida is the hardest of the 8 for McCain to hold on defense. If Obama is willing to spend $40 million there in the last 40 days or so, McCain can't possibly keep up with that kind of spending there. The polling seems to be solid Obama right now in Florida. 7 Florida polls came out this week. Obama +8,8,4,3,3, tie, -1. I don't think it's easy to flip back.

Sonora said...

Here's my un-edumacated guess on this: The McCain camp probably didn't write off Michigan as completely unwinnable. However, they're looking at Ohio, Florida, and Indiana. If Obama manages to pick one of those states off, that's game, set, and match. Team McCain is willing to sacrifice Michigan to save those three. Which is anything but a lock.

Carlo Graziani said...

MATT J. H. said...

"We must wait and see how the electorate reacts to the next disruption in the campaign. Maybe a foreign policy crisis?"

---------------------

The possibility of a classic "October Surprise" -- like some terrorist attack somewhere -- changing the dynamic of the election has been on my mind lately. The conventional wisdom seems to concur in the judgment that such a thing would favor McCain, because of his supposedly superior national security credentials. I thought I'd file a dissent, for what it's worth.

An attack large enough to affect the election would fall under the heading of "Crisis". And the thing is, we just saw how the candidates react to a serious crisis, and we've seen how the voters assessed those reactions. During the financial meltdown and bailout crisis, Obama remained cool-headed, did nothing risky, and appeared to be genuinely working to limit the economic damage to the country. Meanwhile McCain went apeshit, firing daily contradictory volleys from the hip and bouncing off the walls, while spewing shamelessly partisan accusations the whole time. The contrast appears to have settled much in the mind of undecided voters, who have increasingly been declaring themselves Obama voters in the past week.

If there were another crisis, terrorist or otherwise, I believe that the candidates would run true to form. Obama would be issuing calm, reassuring, low-risk, rational statements and actions, while McCain would again go apeshit, bounce off the walls, flip positions from day to day, and talk openly partisan trash.

We've already seen how that contrast plays. I can't imagine it would help McCain. It might actually drive the last nail into his campaign's coffin.

Another Mike said...

Fox News
Texas - Pres.
Obama 45
McCain 46
-----------

Holy shit Batman!

I've been slacking off here in Texas thinking Obama couldn't win here. Time to get back on the phone.

gjdodger said...

The overnights by Nielsen: The debate got a 45 rating. Not share. Rating. Highest of any pres. debate series since Bush I/Clinton/Perot II. It may weaken as smaller markets come in; otherwise, it would eclipse Bush/Ferraro. I'll betcha, as The Divine Ms. P might say...McCain gains 1-2 points from this.

realistxxx said...

Sonora said...
Here's my un-edumacated guess on this: The McCain camp probably didn't write off Michigan as completely unwinnable. However, they're looking at Ohio, Florida, and Indiana. If Obama manages to pick one of those states off, that's game, set, and match. Team McCain is willing to sacrifice Michigan to save those three. Which is anything but a lock.

-------------

Agreed 100%.

McCain's best and probably only strategy right now is two pronged:

Nationalize a message about the economy that somehow brings the national polling back to within 2-4 points and then play defense of the Bush 2004 Map minus IA and NM.

Alex S. said...

I want RCP to replace Pennsylvania with North Carolina in their frontpage "Battleground States" window. PA is currently averaged at +7,9 Obama, that´s no Battleground. Get realistic and don´t show any Kerry states as battlegrounds anymore.

fred said...

That Fox News is a real joe poll. Not real...

Kennyb said...

I read somewhere that the decision to exit Michigan was based on two things: A PROJECTION that with the current economic climate, it would not be winnable and that this conclusion was reached because Obama's lead widened fasted in Michigan as the economy sucked the air out of all other issues over the last few weeks. If that was the reasoning, I give them credit for a rational, metrics-based approach.

Real Joe said...

rwd said...

I've never met anyone from the USA who calls it a cheque


you need to meet more Americans

don't call me a liberal

;-)

Another Mike said...

Oh I was kidding. Just thought I'd give a couple of people who refresh these comments too much whiplash.
-----------------

Awww! My neck! My neck!

Above my Paygrade said...

I think it was Nate that said if the National Number is +4.5 or greater for Obama then the state polls do not matter. What McCain is looking at is where the state results are trailing behind the national number. If the National stays at +6% Obama, its a landslide I think we all agree. If Obama loses say 5% points in the polls and he is +1 going in, which states would tip at this point. You take anywhere he is leading by less than 5% and say they could be flipped, correct?

So we are talking Colorado, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Minnessota, Pennsylvania, Nevada, New Hampshire, and several others within this 5% range.

If the national number does not come down he is going to lose no doubt. If it does come down there is a lot of room for movement in specific states. that trend worse for Obama than the national numbers. So it is a new ball game. Do your best to capture some national Momentum, while attacking and spending only in those locations in the margin of a close campaign (where Obama underperforms his national numbers). If he pulls it off he deserves the win.

Real Joe said...

new thread

Mark said...

Friend of my dad, a labor organizer in MI has this to say

"I smell a Karl Rove-republican dirty trick here.
The ads are still running, but it would take a couple of days to pull.
I haven't checked on his staff yet.
I think either the State R pary will pickup the slack OR the 527's will step in and that gives McCain deneyability when they start slashing. I think we are about to see the vicious and or racist shit start."

Wesley said...

Randall, thanks for that answer. I think I'll familiarize myself a little more with intrade before asking somewhat simple questions like that.

Tarik said...

So please update the scenario analysis to replace the irrelevant "Obama loses OH/MI" with "Obama loses OH/PA".

Michael said...

Those of you who think Florida may be harder for McCain to win than other states where Obama is leading a bit lately are ignoring the fact that in Florida, elections are very stealable. We don't know what the participants in the recent secret meeting of Republicans in Florida talked about, but you don't have to be paranoid to strongly suspect that vote-suppression and vote-counting tampering were probably on the agenda.

syncbox said...

"...to win the battle rather than the war..."

Does this mean that McCain failed to understand the difference between tactics and strategy?

And, in case you missed it, read the Rolling Stone article on McCain's past -- what makes him the creep he currently is.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

Alan Robinson said...

I hate to disappoint the Obama supporters but the Minnesota numbers may make some sense. I lived in Minnesota when Democrats lost everything (1978), and Coleman won the Wellstone seat when the Democratic party picked a weak replacement. Minnesota has two things going for John McCain. 1) Western and southern Minnesota as well as the Iron Range is a lot like the Dakotas. There are a lot of prairie populists who are conservative on social issues and almost socialist on economics. 2) Minnesota has an independent streak and the independent candidate for the Senate now has 19% support and that is rising. I would not be surprised if his supporters also support Nader, Barr, or some other independent candidate and independent candidates as a group get as much as 10% of the vote there. (My daughter is one of those potential voters.) So as long as McCain's populist message is believable, he has a shot in Minnesota.

Cugel said...

"jakam said...

Yeah, those SUSA Minnesota numbers are garbage. Nate should feed them into his model, and let his model laugh at them as it digests it."


The REASON why the SUSA polls tend to be all over the place is that they don't weight by party ID. So, the try and get the right demographics by age and race, but with a small sample size they can get a sample that's totally SKEWED for one candidate or another.

Or in this case they wind up with too many Republicans and right-wingers among young voters and middle-aged voters. Suddenly Obama is winning the elderly, McCain's best category, while only carrying under 30's by 4%?

NONSENSE! That flat can't possibly be right.

IF Obama were winning Minnesota seniors McCain wouldn't win a single age group! He'd be down 15% or more.

I haven't seen any studies, but I'd bet the only states where Obama is winning retirees by 5% or more are Massachusetts and Vermont. Obama is probably doing alright with retirees in Florida, but they tend to be Northern Democrats transplanted to FL.

pdb said...

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet. The Obama campaign is still pushing hard in Montana. TV advertising has continued and they are cycling through two to four different commercials each day. We are also getting GOTV e-mails here in Wyoming to go help in Montana on the weekends. The internals must show that MT is closer than the polls are showing.

enso said...

The affiliates gathering the data for SUSA were Rochester Alexandria and Duluth, correct?

Duluth is the only one that worries me. I think it could use a Biden visit maybe.

Alan - cities resident here.

All I see are Obama and Ron Paul lawn signs. I don't see GOP induced excitement. The non-blue element is the Barr/3rd party/I'm disgusted one, I think. Anecdotal and visual, but there it is.

The Animal said...

I'd like to see the ROI for all of the states.

Voice of the Midwest said...

Michigan is -15 on average on the issues for McCain with the economy at -23. Similar trends and numbers exist in WI, IA, and MN. Bagging those may be next for McCain.

As a native Hoosier, I can safely say if a Republican Presidential nominee is spending money in IN with less than five weeks to go, then two things are true: 1) the GOP brand name is beyond repair, and 2) nationally, the candidate is dead.

McCain is akin to Hitler in early 1945 and Obama is like the allies in Europe. McCain is being pinched into giving up the eastern front (PA) and pinched in the west (MN, IA, WI, and MN) and he is forced to defend occupied France (Ohio) and home turf of Germany (Indiana).

As said before, McCain is not going to have it easy in IN. It is not like any other year and this state is trending independent since Evan Bayh was elected governor in 1988. Libertarian Barr and independent Barr will pull votes from the GOP in this state and they ignored it. Bad move.

Two People Voting for Different Candidates: said...

On choosing to leave Michigan, versus Wisconsin or Minnesota, isn't McCain also making a bad choice when considering the number of electoral votes? There are only 10 in these other states, and the blog here suggests that they have less of a return on investment for McCain. Then again, perhaps he needed to cut in a place where he was spending more money than WI or MN. Hmmmm.

roryburns said...

pdb said: The Obama campaign is still pushing hard in Montana.

That's right pdb - what the Obama internals are showing is that Ron Paul is on the ballot here and there haven't been any polls with him included. Since Paul is wildly populare in MT and beat McCain in the prima-caucus, he'll strip away a lot of McCain votes. The realistic MT numbers are probably more like the polling from back in July, not the polling now.

Voice of the Midwest said...

WI and MN have 15 to 20 media markets to buy in collectively and a ton of ground to cover.

MI has one large media market, five smaller media markets, and people living more compact giving up less ground to cover.

I do not understand the logic of staying in MN and WI and giving up MI. MI is the bellweather of the the eastern part of the Midwest and IA is the bellweather of the upper Midwest. Both are double digit Obama.

McCain should pull completely out of the upper Midwest and aim at saving IN, holding OH, and pulling a rabbit out of his ass in western PA. The Progressive Range of the Upper Midwest is a waste of money for McCain, especially in this economy.

invisible hand said...

My question is: If McCain is right to leave Michigan and all but 1 poll show it pretty close, what does that imply about any skewness in polling data from other states? That is, are things worse for McCain everywhere than public polls suggest?

VP said...


Here's a scenario that looks quite promising for them. First, they compete hard in CO. But even if McCain loses the Kerry States + IA, NM and CO, they still could win the election by flipping NH + the 1 Maine EV.


I believe this is McCain's final Hail Mary attempt. He obviously can't pull out of all the states he was trying to flip at one time, so he started with Michigan. He isn't flipping Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Minnesota either. He knows this. What he is going to do is start gradually shifting his operations to defensive states (Florida, Ohio, Indiana, Virginia, NC). Colorado looks really bad for him now, so he is thinking, I am going to lose Colorado, Iowa and NM. That gets Obama to 273. So, his best path to victory becomes precisely what you described. Flip NH (where he actually has a chance). That makes it 269-269, which goes to Obama. So, he then tries to flip ME-1 to win 270-268. That is clearly what his strategy appears to be developing into. Somehow go on an incredible run where he holds onto VA, FL, OH, IN, NC...then flip NH and ME-1. Longest of longshots, but probably his best chance to win at this point.

Eric said...

MCCain needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat Tuesday. This is the only moment where he could get lucky aside from something insane happening. Early voting has already started. Obama will, at worse, tie in the economic debate Oct 15th. Tuesday or never or McCain to close this race IMO.

Sephinroth (Warlock) said...

First of all, the recent poll numbers spell disaster for the McCain campaign, and this Michigan decision proves that they are panicking---not even necessarily over Election Day itself, but the resource allocation crisis they face now. I'm sure the McCain camp expected to spend time in MI, OH, PA, FL, WI, CO, and MN in the final month. Spending the final few weeks of the election defending FL, NC, IN, and NV was not what they were looking for at all.

Second, I don't think Michigan was a good target in the first place, nor was Minnesota. Their best chance of flipping a Great Lakes/Upper Midwestern state was Wisconsin. It was closer in the last election (Kerry won it by only 0.38%) and doesn't have hard-hit towns like Detroit (huge black population; unemployment), Flint (unemployment and angry unions), and Ann Arbor (big college town).

It'll be interesting to see what McCain chooses to do with NH and ME. They will encounter a massive ground game from the Obama camp, no doubt.

David said...

"All I see is a fly off the handle, belligerent whom I don't want in charge. See Dr. Strangelove."

How long will it be until McCain starts going on about precious bodily fluids?

David said...
This post has been removed by the author.
egapre said...

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! ^@^

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平平 said...

^^ very nice

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