10.29.2008

In Oregon, Turnout is Down, But Especially in Red Counties

Uniquely among the 50 states, Oregon conducts the entirety of its voting by mail, which among other things can provide early clues as to what the electoral battlefield might look like elsewhere in the country.

Surprisingly, perhaps, turnout is down this year in Oregon. According to statistics compiled by the state's Elections Division, the state has received 522,188 ballots through the first seven days of its early voting window. This compares with 645,473 ballots received during the first seven days of 2004 -- a 19 percent decline.

There are many possible reasons why turnout has been sluggish in Oregon. The state, a hotly-contested battleground in 2004, has been largely ignored by the presidential candidates this year. But also, Oregon has been subject to a relatively nasty and senate race, and there is some feeling among voting officials that Oregonians are turning in their ballots later and later each year as they familiarize themselves with the early voting process (in which case, turnout should eventually catch up to its norms).

More importantly, however, the counties most culpable for the depressed turnout appear to be those that voted substantially for George W. Bush in 2004. For example, in Multnomah County, which is largely coincident with the reliably liberal Portland, turnout is down 16 percent as compared with the comparable period in 2004. Downstate in more rural Douglas County, meanwhile, where Bush received two-thirds of the vote in 2004, turnout is 27 percent off-pace.

We can look on this a bit more systematically, focusing at the 16 Oregon counties where population exceeds 50,000. In all 16 counties, turnout is behind its 2004 pace. As you can see, however, the counties experiencing the steepest declines are mostly red counties, whereas the drop-off has been milder in the blue portions of the state:



We can also look at a scatterplot of these results:



Although the data contain a handful of outliers, that is a reasonably strong trend. Note also that I have extended the regression line to predict the behavior of hypothetical counties consisting entirely of Bush voters, or entirely of Kerry voters. In regression line predicts that, in a county consisting of 100 percent Bush voters, turnout would be off by about 40 percent. Conversely, in a county consisting entirely of Kerry voters, it would be essentially unchanged.

(I checked to see whether these results may have been dictated by patterns of population growth -- perhaps people have been moving out of the Republican counties and into the Democratic ones. Growth, however, has been fairly uniform across Oregon over the past four years, and so this did not materially affect the results.)

One underdiscussed scenario in this election is the one wherein Republican base
turnout is relatively low. Although this has generally been an engaging election with engaging candidates, the base remains considerably less enthusiastic about John McCain than it was about George W. Bush, and McCain is also lacking Bush's ground game. While the natural assumption is that Democrats would prefer a large turnout, what they are really aiming for is something in the medium-to-high range: one where their base turns out but the Republican one doesn't.

251 comments

Real Joe said...

wow

He said...

Low turnout in GOP counties in Oregon is great news....FOR JOHN MCCAIN!


Word verification: Amyoppi.

Siempre Fi

bizkid23 said...

Real Joe as the first comment is GREAT NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

April said...

Republicans...continually driving down the vote. They try to do this in Democratic areas, but who knew it would have the adverse affect of working in the Republican areas.

I'm Liverpool 'til I die said...

So who is coming down to Grant Park on Nov.4th?

don't panic said...

this is great especially for the down-ticket parts.

InkStain said...

Democrats would prefer if their voters showed up and Republicans' didn't?

That's the groundbreaking, conventional-thinking-smashing, utter shock punditry that we've come to expect here at 538 :)

MysticLaker said...

Is Ras cooking the books?

Someone at pollster said it is McCain +1 on economy and McCain +10on national security.

That contridicates every other internal in every poll released this week (including the abcnews tracker)...

If someone has any explaination for this please let me know...I am really confused.

Jon said...

How strong is the regression though? You forgot to tell us...

Cascadian Engineer said...

On a side note, Washington is almost entirely mail-in ballot as well. Only King (Seattle) and Pierce (Tacoma) counties are not.

Nima M said...

First class commentary.

InkStain said...

"If someone has any explaination for this please let me know...I am really confused."

Normal statistical variation. We need to stop accusing pollsters of fraud every time we don't like the results.

Christopher said...

Rass uses a very conservative model for his numbers. I like to use it as an Obama supporter so it keeps things in perspective, but he's probably a little too cautious in estimating Obama's support.

InkStain said...

"If someone has any explaination for this please let me know...I am really confused."

Normal statistical variation. We need to stop accusing pollsters of fraud every time we don't like the results.

LAT said...

I have a question---is Rass asking the economy question in a regular way or is he now asking something about socialism and redistribution by Obama? That I could see making the economy numbers in his poll tilt that way. otherwise this goes against ALL the pollsters.

Andy JS said...

According to uselectionatlas, turnout in Oregon in 2004 was 86% of registered voters and 68% of the voting age population.

That was the second highest turnout of registered voters after Colorado (89%), although 4 other states had higher turnouts of the voting age population: (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Maine, New Hampshire).

Across the whole nation, turnout was 73% of registered voters and 56% of the voting age population.

I'm assuming turnout of the VAP will be over 60% this year. How high do people think it might go?

joe said...

Bad news for Gordon Smith.

InkStain said...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/15059.html

I would pay $500 to hang with John Kerry. On a personal level, he's my favorite presidential candidate of my lifetime.

Nickname unavailable said...

I can't get the new Obama ad to load. You guys commented on it in the last thread. Real hard hitting, etc., etc. Is there an alternate site to it? The Obama site is not loading at all.

[slatingu]

Heather Nordquist said...

SUSA says that the OH early votes in their latest poll break for Obama by 13%

poll

Poll 51/46 Obama

Heather Nordquist said...

My husband works in Santa Fe with a couple of cons that say they simply aren't voting this time. I think the general disarray of the McCain camp has definitely taken its toll.

Daniel said...

What's the r^2?

Michael said...

SURGE! 8 TO 3!

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows Barack Obama attracting 50% of the vote nationwide while John McCain earns 47%. This is the first time McCain has been within three points of Obama in more than a month and the first time his support has topped 46% since September 24 (see trends).

Chi said...

Ras

O50
M47

PA John said...

FWIW From Ras:

"Among those who “always” vote in general elections, Obama leads by just a single point. Obama does better among more casual voters. However, among those with a high degree of interest in this year’s campaign, Obama leads by four. Among those who say they are following the race closely on a daily basis, Obama leads by five. "

Heather Nordquist said...

Concern trolls about to come out.

InkStain said...

"Among those who “always” vote in general elections, Obama leads by just a single point. Obama does better among more casual voters. However, among those with a high degree of interest in this year’s campaign, Obama leads by four. Among those who say they are following the race closely on a daily basis, Obama leads by five. "


So we've got another likely voter screen fight!

dvdmgsr said...

Didn't Oregon have an anti-gay ballot measure in 2004?

Christopher said...

So, the difference between the Rass model and it's extra numbers, and the difference between the Gallup traditional and extended is just turnout. If all the new people turn out, Obama wins in a landslide. If that all fails, Obama wins in a closer race. Got it.

Heather Nordquist said...

Yeah, but among those that already voted Obama +9

Thomas said...

I'll take an Obama lead in those who always vote any day.

Gwen said...

Hmmmm...interesting. Sounds like they could use a full-fledged Joe-the-Plumber campaign.

Heather Nordquist said...

Would be really great to see a comparison of the ones who have early voted vs. the likely voter model. Hmmmmm...

dwbh said...

So when was the last time McCain actually had a lead in a tracking poll?

MysticLaker said...

@Ras...Is this also the first time RAS is including third party candidates?

The internals sound weird. I told you there is some fishy stuff going on over there...Not fraud, just fishy...

Aaron said...

It's worth noting that Umatilla County (the one red county bucking the trend) is the home of incumbent Sen. Gordon Smith's frozen food plant. Helps explain why it's an outlier.

Heather Nordquist said...

BTW, I have no trouble getting to BO's website

shadowguidex said...

"I'll take an Obama lead in those who always vote any day."

Hell yeah. The answer is already known - Obama victory - the only question remaining is the margin.

Chun said...

Any chance we can see if this trend is happening in other states?

Heather Nordquist said...

RAS will have a new NM poll out today. WOOHOO

PA John said...

"So we've got another likely voter screen fight!"

Exactly. I'm not accusing any pollster of cooking the books, but it comes down to the model they choose to use.

mc9cain said...

Jeremy said...
@mc9cain:

Ras has one of the highest Dem ID parity numbers out there, so there's no proof for a 2 points for Republican lean.

I wish ppl would stop peddling this Ras=GOP lean bullshit when his numbers show a tightening. We were perfectly cool with Ras when he was showing a consistent 8 point Obama lead. This childish turning on pollsters who dare deliver news we don't like is so childish.

October 29, 2008 8:23 AM

Jeremy,
I would caution you on the use of the word childish. You know nothing about me. Perhaps you want to do a little research on Nate's site where he talks about a Republican lean for Rasmussen or better stated, a conservative number for Obama. Every day I've seen the Ras polls it's fair to assume 1-2 points shortage for Obama. Not just today. Every day.

InkStain said...

"So when was the last time McCain actually had a lead in a tracking poll?"

GWU-Battleground before they fixed their weighting, I think.

Seretse said...

John McCain and Barack Obama are tied at 47% each in Ohio, among voters who have not yet cast a ballot, but who tell SurveyUSA they are certain to do so on or before election day. But, among those in Ohio who tell SurveyUSA they have already voted, Barack Obama leads by 13 points.


Perhaps this *is* a demonstration of the cellphone effect and underrepresented youth support.

Stephen C. Rose said...

AActually this is why I suggested some time ago that the story of this election would be of Republicans unable to vote for Obama but damned if they will vote for McCain Palin. This is merely confirmation of a discernible drift that will contribute to an landslide when added to other changes in electoral behavior.

Dave from San Antone said...

inkstain,
I'm talking about those 2% outliers, and if you read my post again, I was talking about exactly the same unique circumstances as I presume you are talking about. For sure, even though I have closely watched at least 15 presidential elections, this one is by far the most unique one, but it is also the first one after the COLLAPSE of the Trickle Down Theory which I honestly believe will radically (revolutionarily) change the precept of capitalisim so the greedy fat cats can NEVER again do what they did to get us into this mess (take all the money honest people invested in the stock market and run).
I think Obama is going to bring out the model of PRAGMATIC (no, not "liberal") capitalism, which is not "socialism", but capitalism for the masses. That is a safeguard we really need, and I think our country, the wealth of our people, and our infrastructure will benefit greatly from it. That's why he talks about how we are all responsible for working hard toward contributing something.

October 29, 2008 8:40 AM

ScottGA said...

I'd love to see what how likely to vote these polls would have considered the early voters. In other words, would many of those that have voted early have been considered unlikely to vote beforehand?

Josh said...

I read an article recently that said something similar is going on in Tennessee. Turnout so far in early voting is still increasing overall, particularly in Memphis and Nashville (the two bluest parts of the state). But turnout has decreased in Knoxville (the largest red city). It didn't go into any further detail, such as other cities or counties, but I think it says something when turnout is way up in blue cities and actually down in a red city.

don't panic said...

the likely vote vs already voted discrepacy needs to be weighted to party ID before it makes a gutliz ofsense

Seretse said...

I mean such a stark contrast can point to one of two things. Either the electorate is genuinely divided from here on out or perhaps they should be taking cues from past voters in adjusting their likely voter model.

Wa7th said...

Verification word is "duped." I don't think I like the word verification system's attitude. It's a mean accusation from such a heartless soulless sprite.

Could there still be many undecideds in the OR Senate race? Any controversial initiatives on the ballot? From my POV the rhetoric in the Presidential race has been so loud for so long that the local races seemed late oout of the starting gate. Sure, I may have decided on BHO a year ago, but there are still other races I haven't decided on yet.

Heather Nordquist said...

@seretse

That's why I'd love to see the difference between the actual early voter demographics vs the weightings that the pollster uses. Shucks, I have to go to work or I could try to look at that.

*adoradip* -- adjective for Sarah Palin?

Adam said...

Oregon's voterfile tracks party affiliation, and the counties keep track of who has voted, (not just how many.) The counties make that info available, and every serious campaign and org in the state is currently getting daily voterfile updates for all of the important counties.

Ergo, it shouldn't be that difficult to actually take a look at current turnout in Oregon by party, which would take a lot of the guesswork out, no? Surely someone attached to 538 has a contact or two in Oregon who would pass along those numbers. They're hardly a state secret.

Nickname unavailable said...

Obama website has been down for an hour.

[dowel]

Matt said...

Concerned, but not a troll. National numbers are tightening. "Spread the Wealth" is this years swift boat. In a tie race, it sank Kerry. Fortunately, Obama's not been in a tie race. Still, the "Spread the Wealth"/socialist meme is probably working with low-info undecideds. Its like the swiftboat in that Obama has not countered it very well (though the tax calculator ad could be helpful).

I'm not concerned that BHO is going to lose. If Ras really is correct, 3% is still a bigger win than Bush had-- and GOTV/undersampled-youth/AA vote/early vote will have BHO do better than the polls will show next Monday.

Still, I want a lot of blue on that map Nov 5-- tightening national numbers could leave a few battleground states red (though still not enough for McCain to win).

LAT said...

I think one of the problems is that most pollsters do not know if the increased early voting turn out is, as Ink says, cannibalizing of the actual vote. From what I have heard of those who work on the ground the early vote has been targeted on the O side to very specifc voters, those who have are infrequent or have never voted (not just youth) and will target those from these grouo who did not early vote plus others on election day. We do not know what will happen with turn out on election day but it seems to be that the assumption that this is just the surge of voters and election day will be ruled by the republicans in turn out is off. I think one can assume the opposite actually---that the Obama team has proven with this early voter turn out that their machine works and they have laid the groundwork for closing strong on election day in GOTV

kittles93 said...

Can someone tell me what percentage of registered voters are African American?

If theoritically every registered voter turned out to vote, what percentage would be A-A?

Aidan MT4 said...

I wish Nate and Sean would start their own polling firm, and vet all of their polling questions, techniques, and analysis on this site publicly before doing interviews. All of the pollsters are flawed. Thinking over my own interview with Rass last weekend, I agree with some of the comments made here about its potential biases. Mind you, I don't think it biased MY answers at all, but we always have to think of the David Sedaris ("chicken or a plate of shit with glass") undecided voter, an almost mythical creature with an IQ in the 1-10 percentile range.

I'm Liverpool 'til I die said...

All this hyperventilating about polls when they are not "as good" as whatever arbitrary number you have stuck in your head is annoying. If you are worried that Obama "only" has a 3-7 point lead in the daily trackers thrown in with double digit leads in the MSM polls, I am wondering then if McCain supporters all have bleeding ulcers. Not to mention double digit leads or close to it in Virginia, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Ohio, a slight lead in Florida, and true tossups of Missouri, Indiana, North Carolina.

Have a little faith, take prozac and relax.

MATT J. H. said...

It's gonna be close on election day. McCain is still screwed in VA,CO and PA, so I still can't see how he can win, but it sure makes it interesting.

Remember,the Obama camp could care less about tracking polls. State numbers folks.

Heather Nordquist said...

@nickname

I was just there.

*hoperles* -- The McCain campaign

LAT said...

Matt--huh?You are wrong, I have to say, with this idea that Obama has not countered the socialist thing? Just because McCain keeps hammering at it does not mean Obama has not answered it. He has, so has Biden so have all the surrogates. Constantly.

This has been going on for 2 weeks already and the numbers are tightening because we are closing the elections. There is no cause and effect here. No way that you can make that connection. The republicans are coming home the independents are not responding to this, Obama is still leading this group by pretty large margins.

Andy JS said...

Latest early voting figures from Georgia:

Total votes cast so far - 1,387,145
Total votes in 2004 - 3,301,875

Percentage of 2004 votes already cast: 42%.

p smith said...

A bit of tightening is just fine and should sweep away any cobwebs of complacency amongst those Obama supporters who think they can ease up in the final week. The important point is that on average Obama continues to lead by more than 6 points in national polls and his electoral lead in state polls is even bigger. Back in August I would not have dreamed we would be in this position just 6 days from the election.

It's also important to remember that this is just natural tightening and that there has been no actual event that suggests a turnaround. The McCain campaign continues to fight with itself and today Obama will campaign with Bill Clinton and we will have his 30 minute informecial.
If anything we may see a boost in Obama's support.

Most importantly, the election is being won as we speak. Go to SUSA's website and you will see that in Oregon and Washington more than 50% of LVs have voted and Obama is ahead by 20 points. The networks could legitimately call those two erstwhile swing states today!

And look at this from Gallup

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111580/Early-Voting-Now-18.aspx

18% of voters have already voted and Obama leads by 10. Even Rasmussen confirms that Obama leads by 9 among early voters. Those votes cannot be lost. McCain on the other hand will suffer from Obama's big Wednesday and the real prospect of low turnout from his supporters.

This is going to be a big win but I am quite happy for the media to say it is close.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Hey libs, did you see the Rasmussen tracking poll?

It's Obama ahead by only three. McCain is catching up fast!

TOO CLOSE TO CALL!

I told you libs that's how it would end! It all comes down to Pennsylvania.

www.democratz.org said...

Every state should have vote by mail with paper ballots. You won't have any more Effing Republiklan party ballot security teams and with civil servants registering voters and counting the votes, the Republiklan party will go the way of the whig party.

Zogby has played around with the number of Republicans and Democrats in their sample to make it a tighter race. Zogby has increased the numbers of Republicans in his sample and reduced the Democrats which in my view doesn't reflect the 2008 raw samples.





Please answer a poll on universal health care at http://poll.democratz.org



You can watch Countdown with Keith Olbermann at
http://liberal.democratz.org



You can watch The Young Turks Liberal talk show after you watch Countdown by clicking on the link that reads Watch the Young Turks, near the top of the page.


Mark said...

Ras has O+3. However, it looks like they included 3rd party candidates this time.

Bill Cameron said...

One thing that could be slowing ballot returns is the large number of murky ballot initiatives to sort through. Oregon criminal scumbag Bill Sizemore has larded up the ballot with a number of murky and execrable initiatives designed to improve the lot of rich pukes such as himself.

At the same time, there are a few measure that merit consideration, so you might be seeing a case where people are trying to figure out what's what. The Voters Guide is its usual dense-packed mix of "Vote Yes and you'll crap gold nuggets/Vote No or your clothes will burst into flames!", and the local media seems particularly thin on information this year, not that the local media is worth two farts in the wind anyway.

Maybe it will just take a while.

Steve_OH said...

@Dave from San Antone

"...change the precept of capitalisim so the greedy fat cats can NEVER again do what they did to get us into this mess..."

What will happen is that, over the next few decades, as we dig ourselves out of this mess, the middle class will gain wealth and influence. As they find themselves having increased wealth and political power, it will once again go to their heads, the pendulum will start to swing back towards favoring the very wealthy (where they all imagine themselves ending up), and 75 years from now, it will all come crashing down one more time.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

["comera" - Better than Ambien! You'll wake up the next morning feeling like you've been in a coma all night long!]

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Looks like Nader could win it for us again, LOL!

Cugel said...

Oregon may be a unique case. You've got some very strange factors:

1. Extremely conservative Republican base that isn't excited about John McCain.

2. Extremely Liberal Democrats very excited about Obama.

3. Wide Obama lead trumpeted in all the media.

4. Oregon is a blue state and Republicans know that it is going for Obama, no matter how much they don't like that.

5. Do they really want to make an effort to vote for McCain if they know it's futile, when they don't even like him that much to begin with?

See, if they had "NoBama" hopes to cling to, then they could turn out and at least PREVENT Obama from winning their state.

But, if they are going to lose anyway, and are even denied the satisfaction of having their vote AGAINST Obama mean anything, why bother?

In Northeastern Blue states you won't find as hard-core conservatives as in Oregon, so there's more reason to actually like McCain. Thus, even though Massachusetts Republicans know McCain won't win there, they can still be happy to vote FOR McCain.

I imagine that right-wing Republicans who don't like McCain, who also happen to live in deeply Blue states, might have some trouble bothering to vote.

It's rather like liberal Democrats who didn't much like Kerry having to rally themselves to vote in Kentucky. How much effort do they want to make?

Are they really willing to wait 3 hours in a line to cast their ballot for somebody, KNOWING that their candidate is going to lose their state and will probably be defeated anyway?

Battleground states are probably a different case.

kittles93 said...

State polls (wich are now congruent in time with the national polls for the most part) generally follow the national tracker, but not in lockstep.

If more people in a certain region already strong for either candidate starts to flow a little bit toward the other candidate, it makes no difference in the electoral college math.

The battleground states have yet to reflect any McCain surge. If anything, Obama is surging. McCain basically needs to go six for six on OH, FL, VA, NC, CO, MO.

And even them Obama could sneak a win with IA, NV, NM at 269 plus maybe one in Nebraska.

Juris said...

Would a surprise trip by Palin to OR tomorrow stimulate enough GOP voters to catch the Obamans by surprise? This could also be due to general complacency by Dems.

Gary said...

Any explanation of why national polls seem to be tightening , but state polls seems to be widening? I'm confused.

Forcefield said...

Cue Vanessa hand-wringing in 1...2...3....

War Hussein Obama said...

I still believe on election day..

Obama will win the popular vote by double digits.

And will get at least 364 EV.

its alot easier to answer the phone than brave the lines at the polls, especially when you know your candidate is not really competitive.


the Enthusiasm gap is a big deal. Even if this race were tied in the polls, i dont think McCain voters will turn out like Obama's will.

Matt said...

RWC - If it all comes down to Pennsylvania, you are fucked.

LAT said...

I think this is pretty funny--the new McCain ad says that Obama is not ready YET. They think they can make the argument that if you want Obama you can vote for McCain now and get Obama later. does this remind anyone of the last few weeks of the primary when Clinton kept pushing these ads that suggested you could have the to of them? Remember that? Incredible how similar their cmapaigns have been.

In the psychological scale of steps for dealing with loss this is call--Bargaining. I guess we are getting past denial?

Megan said...

Nate,

I don't think a straight line is a good fit here... you've got a trend going where all data are above the line for a good bit, and then all are below the line for higher values of x. A quadratic curve might be a better fit.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

McCain is surging, libs, deal with it.

The socialist line of attack is sticking haha!

God bless JtP. He may have won this election for McCain/Palin!

Heather Nordquist said...

NM also has high early vote numbers. McDonald has only gotten Bernalillo County on its sheet. That is Albuquerque's county. I saw a figure of about 335,000 early votes, or nearly 50% of the total 2004 vote. Dems are outpacing Repubs pretty large here (55/32)

Christopher said...

"Would a surprise trip by Palin to OR tomorrow stimulate enough GOP voters to catch the Obamans by surprise? This could also be due to general complacency by Dems."

Ha. Wait. Hahaha.

You think Oregon is in play? Seriously? And you think bringing in Sarah Palin to the pro-America parts of Oregon wouldn't energize the hell out of the liberal base? Wait, are you Rick Davis. Please!?

chuck said...

Hi,

Could someone please explain something to me? How is it possible that there is such a gulf between the state polls and the national polls (which are showing "tightening"). Obama has HUGE leads in very populous states like CA, NY, IL, while McCain is only managing a +10 or so in states like Texas (the most populous red state). Add to that, that all the polling in the various swing states (esp. Ohio, Colorado, NV) are showing a widening Obama lead. The national polls and state polls are simply impossible to reconcile. Maybe Nate could take a crack at this one.

LAT said...

kittles---this lag you talk about was true when states were polled infrequently. There is no lag now as states are polled daily. The states do not lag a McCain surge because everything is polled at the same time. If this were the case PA would tightened last week a lot, when McCain was up, it did not. Ohio is now being polled every day. It isn't happening. Look at Nevada and Virginia. NH too. Until we see Co, PA, or VA within 2 points by 2 pollsters there is NO tightening that can affect the race on election day.

PorridgeGun said...

MysticLaker said...

Is Ras cooking the books?




Yes, as are other national trackers.



Given the current landscape and the inevitability of an Obama victory which has crept in, even in the MSM, the PEW poll released yesterday showing Obama ahead by 15% is how I'd expect the national polls to look right now.

Either PEW is gonna come out looking like the greatest pollster of all-time next week, or it's reputation will drop to Zogby-like levels.

But not as low as AP/Dunkin' Donuts.




Personally, I'm going with the PEW numbers. Not for obvious reasons, but because I find it unbelievable that anyone outside of the conservative nutbase sees the Republican ticket as anything other than laughable. I'm serious, Bush/Cheney has more credibility at this point.

Martin van K said...

As far as I can make something out of this from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, it seems to be a significant lack of motivation in the ranks of the McCain infantry...
No surprise after so many signs of quarreling staff and senior GOP topguns, and a candidate showing no leadership of any effective quality.
What more prove of disqualification for the job could a man ever deliver?!

Forcefield said...

Chuck,

I think we're seeing undecideds in red states (who were always going to vote McCain anyways) are finally saying so in interviews. Red states are getting redder. Shrug.

takestock said...

State polls are showing a big shift to Obama while national trackers show the opposite? It looks like their tracking models are weeding out the undecideds -- treating them as non-voters -- as we get closer to the election, and assuming the soft support for the repub is more likely to vote than the dem's soft support based on prior elections. The difference between Ras and Pew though is staggering -- one of the two will be taking a hit to their reputation after this election is over.

Based on the state polls I also think the tightening is mostly in non-battleground states like NY and CA and deep red states. Does anyone really think this is a 3-pt race when GA, MT, and even AZ are in play!

For those concerned, take note of the fact that right now Obama has > 50% leads in 286 EV states. So for McCain to win he either has to suppress an awful lot of dem voters -- unlikely with interest this high -- or he needs to convince dem voters to switch sides in the final days. I don't see that happening.

Hank Gillette said...

There seems to be a missing word in the third paragraph, third sentence.

But also, Oregon has been subject to a relatively nasty and senate race...

Ever thought of developing an algorithm to delete comments that have no content other than their position in the queue? That would make you a hero in the entire blogger community.

Steve_OH said...

@Gary:

"Any explanation of why national polls seem to be tightening , but state polls seems to be widening?"

McCain is gaining ground in states that don't matter (either too blue or too red).

@Megan:

"A quadratic curve might be a better fit."

It might, but you can't do curve-fitting based on what "looks like" a better fit. A linear regression simply shows that there is a trend. If you're going to use a more complex curve, you have to have a theoretical basis to explain why you expect the data to fall along that curve.

["demeness" - That slightly uneasy feeling that you're somehow channeling Demi Moore.]

Heather Nordquist said...

MCCAIN SURGE!!!

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!

Where have all the Freeptards gone?

*pastoldo* -- HEHE - perfect description of mccain

Juris said...

@Chuck: many things may be going on, including slight lag in timing between state poll field dates and national trackers.

Another factor may be that all of the trackers now are coming up with (and Nate is using) likely voter estimates of one kind or another. And the LV adjustment matters a fair bit. It is possible that the application of LV procedures in national trackers is somewhat different from (for better or for worse) what's done in the state one-off polls.

In earlier times (months ago) when this kind of thing was noticed (then using registered votes) the state and national estimates realigned at some point, IIRC.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Yup, there is a McCain surge.

This race is three points EITHER WAY, libs. You will be real nervous on election night.

Andrew said...

@takestock

Based on the state polls I also think the tightening is mostly in non-battleground states like NY and CA and deep red states.

Unfortunately, the most recent polls from NY and CA show an ever-growing Obama lead. Meanwhile, deep red states such as MS are in single digits.

So what we have is blue states trending toward Obama, red states trending toward Obama, battleground states trending toward Obama, and national trackers trending toward McCain.

Weird.

OryJTgun said...

Palin to Oregon? Ha! Not gonna happen. I'd go though, just to throw lipstick at her. Don't forget, Bush1 called Portland, "Little Beirut". Some of us are quite proud of that.

As well as the Smith/Merkely campaign, there's another race that's been really nasty - I think both are having some effect.

There are also quite a few ballot measures this year. It takes time to figure out how to vote on those.

Cugel: I don't recall if there was an 'anti gay' measure in '04. Might have been.

I still haven't voted -- because of the ballot measure thing, but will likely turn ours in this weekend. I expect turnout in OR, in the end, will be pretty high.

Love the site -- great info and insight here.

Seretse said...

Obama has cut his national advertising by about 3/4's since last week.

PorridgeGun said...

Heather Nordquist said...

Where have all the Freeptards gone?




They're currently rubbing one out to the Raspublican poll, which for 2 months declared as cooked and it's pollster in the tank for Obama.

takestock said...

Andrew, other than the Ras NY poll, I haven't seen any polls from NY or CA in the past week so we really can't say for sure if the non-battlegrounds are closing in. Maybe we'll get some hints in the next couple days.

Juris said...

@p smith. Thanks for infor about EV in OR and WA. I'm not worried about either of those states. At the same time, I don't think the networks would/could call those states today, or for that matter before 8 PM local time on Nov.4.

It will be interesting to see whether Nate who will be live on HD-Net with Dan Rather on election night sticks to the network convention about not making early calls. Maybe he can differentiate between "late forecasts" and "calls."

MysticLaker said...

If only there was a way for Obama to talk to America to reinforce his message and talk about all the political noise...if only there was a way...

MysticLaker said...

I have a question. The informerical will be on primetime in all markets? Correct? It's not just 8 PM EST, but prime time in all markets? Is that how this is going to work? Except for fox I guess which will have baseball during primetime on the west coast?

RWD said...

Obama is still at 50 or better in Ras as he has been for the last 5 weeks. Whether McCain's number is 44, 46, or 47 doesn't really matter much.

Funny how even the polls that make Repubs' balls explode still show Obama in the lead.

PorridgeGun said...

Seretse said...

Obama has cut his national advertising by about 3/4's since last week.



They shouldn't have. When you've got a huge money advantage, both statewide and nationally, you use it. Like James Carville said: "When your opponent is drowning, throw the son of a bitch an anvil."

Josh said...

I guess it was to be expected but it's hard to argue that the trackers aren't tightening now. BUT, McCain is running out of time and most of the tightening appears to be coming from undecideds and some Republicans coming home. It seems unlikely that McCain would catch up enough to win - but he may be ruining Obama's landslide chances. I'm hoping tonight's TV special really does the trick and we get one more big Obama surge.

John McCain Is A Socialist.

Daniel said...

I was feeling that strange anxiety this morning after seeing the Ras poll but my spirits rose because........just posted on MSNBC (AP poll release):

The polling shows Obama holding solid leads in Ohio (7 percentage points), Nevada (12 points), Colorado (9) and Virginia (7), all Republican states won by Bush and collectively offering 47 electoral votes. Sweeping those four — or putting together the right combination of two or three — would almost certainly make Obama president.

SHERWICK said...

Yes, I wish there was a way for Obama to somehow go on National TV to have 30 minutes to himself to explain his position to America...

Some day, my wish will come true..

:/

RWD said...

"They shouldn't have. When you've got a huge money advantage, both statewide and nationally, you use it. Like James Carville said: "When your opponent is drowning, throw the son of a bitch an anvil."


Maybe they should do something like, I don't know, buy 30 minutes of prime time on every network. That might help.

SHERWICK said...

rwd, it will never happen.
:(

dwbh said...

@MysticLaker:

I have a question. The informerical will be on primetime in all markets? Correct? It's not just 8 PM EST, but prime time in all markets? Is that how this is going to work? Except for fox I guess which will have baseball during primetime on the west coast?

They aren't cutting into the baseball game on the West Coast to show this. So that would mean showing Obama at 5 PM PST, and the game starting at 5:30 PST.

MysticLaker said...

Buying 30 minutes of tv - that is crazy. Who could afford that? if only american people could contribute to a presidential general election directly to help fund someone they believe in? that would be amazing...maybe next time?

MotherHoose said...



for anyone who wants to see new Obama ad and can't get it...

It's over on Huffington:


Link

madamerica said...

The tightening in national trackers is inexplicable. I have prepared myself for the worst numbers from those trackers in the next few days. Regardless, I think the ignored parts of the country are moving towards McCain and Obama is going to maintain his lead in battleground states. An Obama victory seems like fate to me, considering the stark contrast between the two campaigns and their messages.

Daniel said...

And I wish He would post another story of his combat hand-to-hand battles with the insurgents in 'Fallogia' or his confrontation with some Liberal at Walmart. Talking about his Marine training, using his Marine sword, hitting libs in their solar plexis, good stuff!!

Those stories are some of the funniest stuff I have read on the message boards.

clubok said...

Maybe they should do something like, I don't know, buy 30 minutes of prime time on every network. That might help.

That's crazy talk. To be able to afford something like that, a campaign would have to be able to raise well over half a billion dollars. Let's try to be realistic here....

Todd Dugdale said...

lat wrote:
This has been going on for 2 weeks already and the numbers are tightening because we are closing the elections. There is no cause and effect here. No way that you can make that connection.

Amen, sister. This is absolutely right. McCain's support among Republicans has been rising, and that is the short and long of it.

And those Republicans aren't turning out in early voting. In NC, for example, Republican turnout is down 9% compared to 2004.

"Socialism"/JTP is just the last in the parade of "base appeals" that have no draw for anyone that matters in the race. It's ridiculously weak that McCain is still devoting his efforts to rallying his base in the last week, and pathetic that even this effort is apparently failing to turn out that base.

We're supposed to be worried that Republicans are voting for the Republican candidate now? That brings hand-wringing into a previously-unexplored territory of lameness.

MATT J. H. said...

McCain is catching up on the economy big time with Obama. Obama got lax the last 10 days as he tends to do when winning. Obama will still win the election, but its going to be closer than it has to be.

Obama's greatest strength, he's so nice. Obama's greatest weakness, he's too nice.

Adam said...

There are a lot of initiative measures on the ballot this year. I know a lot of friends who plan to vote, but they have been slowed down by tryig to figure out how to vote on the measures.

Also, Nate, I was wondering, Drudge has been cherry picking daily tracking polls for two weeks now to try to drive the narrative. How do pollsters like Gallup compensate for people who have already voted? Are they not included or are they likely voters? Or does the poll not account for them? Is this why Gallup shows the race tightening??

NoVa Commie said...

MysticLaker said...

Buying 30 minutes of tv - that is crazy. Who could afford that? if only american people could contribute to a presidential general election directly to help fund someone they believe in? that would be amazing...maybe next time?

Yes, I wish that could happen - it's too bad that community organizing doesn't allow someone to develop management, organizational, or fundraising skills...

oh well.

joel said...

Rasmussen had Obama up 26 points in CA. a few days ago. I bet today is as close as McCain gets.
I just can`t see any way for him to get to 270 electoral votes, it may not be the landslide people are predicting but it would take a miracle for Obama to lose this.
On the other hand maybe turnout won`t be what people are expecting especially if conservative sstay home.

Jeff NYC Dem said...

Let's everyone who is panicking remember that

1) the most "conservative" tracking poll is still showing Obama +3 with less than a week to go (Rasmussen is conservative in that its mostly understated in its results and is therefore not subject to the wild swings of polls that consistently show greater leads for a particular candidate.

2) The state polls are what matter here, and Obama has over 50% of the vote and wide leads in states adding up to 264 electoral votes. In order for him to win, he needs ONE state from the following list (in order of liklihood)- Colorado, Virginia, Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Mossouri and Indiana.

3) In order for McCain to win he has to win ALL of the aforementioned states.


So, who has the tougher task on election day? Don't feed the surge trolls, it didn't work in Iraq, it's not working now.

Brandon said...

So when the Obama campaign last week said the numbers were going to tighten, did everyone think they were joking?

Relax, folks. People in the know say this coming. Personally I never thought Obama would win the pop. vote by more than around 4%. I guess that's the kind of perspective you get living in a red (hope to turn blue) state.

Mr. MacGregor said...

As an Oregonian and Portlander here are some possible reasons turn out is lower:
1.) Oregon is not being contested at all this year. In '04 both candidates visited and there were several canvassers for both sides. This year, even with all of the yard signs, the election doesn't have nearly the same presence here.

2.) In '04 there was an anti-gay marriage amendment on the ballot which actually got more total votes than the presidential election. In other words people got their ballot, voted "no" (more likely than not) on the gay marriage and then mailed it in without voting in any other race. There are no really compelling ballot initiatives this year.

3.) Although polls show Jeff Merkely with a slight lead against Gordon Smith I suspect that there are some people who are hesitating a little bit on that vote. Mark Hatfield is still a demi-god here; Oregonians know the power of seniority in the senate.

So, overall, probably good news for Obama and not as good news for Jeff Merkely.

I voted a week ago, so I did my part.

MATT J. H. said...

The state polls will close this remaining week, but keep an eye on VA, CO and PA. Thats where the action is at. McCain can spend all he wants in Florida, its irrelevant.

Ian Rasmussen said...

Also, in 2004 there was a hotly contested gay marriage act voted on, ballot measure 36. This drove up voter turn out in many of the red counties, as it had in many other parts of the country. It might be unfair to say that a decline in voter turn out in these counties suggests that the conservative base is feeling luke warm over John McCain, when it is just as likely that conservative or religious groups have been less successful in driving voters when large moral/human right measures are not up for vote.

PorridgeGun said...

RWD,


But the danger is, if Obama does drop below 50% in the Raspublican poll in the next couple of days, the narrative is set for the home-stretch that Obama hasn't closed the deal and is dropping. And it sure as shit will be leaked to Drudge.


With Rasmuseen's conservative bias push-polling and leaking results to Drudge, he's buggered whatever credibility he had left.

Roderick said...

PA will be a mess on election day since there is no early voting, with all of the attention it is getting, as if it really is the decisive state right now, or is even truly in play for that matter.

Darío said...

A lot of Redneck will vote.
Obama can lose. A lot of people vote for "idols" not for issues.
Remember that.

researcher said...

please remember that there is little early voting in the northeast where obama's lead is strongest

the early voting results for obama from national polls are better than people realize because they should be compared to his performance in early voting states

the analysis needs to be done within state and aggregated to have any validity

non-early voting states (i think)

Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Connecticut
New Jersey
New York
Vermont
Delaware
Maryland
Wash DC
Washington
Michigan

New Hampshire
Virginia
Pennsylvania
Minnesota
Missouri

Kentucky
Mississippi
Alabama

Andrew said...

Seretse said...

Obama has cut his national advertising by about 3/4's since last week.


Actually, he's cut his cable and national ads by about 90%. Link

That money is instead going into the states directly.

Seems logical to me.

Eric said...

Perhaps there's reason to be slightly concerned about Gallup and rasmussen tightening. If a lot of those undecideds come home, that'll do the t ightening tick, since they're mostly republicans that hadn't decided yet. That said, look at the state polling released in the last 48 hours and tell me what I'm missing.

Nevada
Obama +10, Obama +4, Obama +12

Ohio
Obama +7, Obama +4, Obama +9, Obama +9

Pennsylvania
Obama +12, Obama +12, Obama +12, Obama +7, Obama +13

Virginia Obama +7, Obama +9

Colorado Obama +9, Obama +8


So what? Are all of the pollsters wrong? OR are they all polling old data and everything's shifted in gigantic fashion. Every poll I listed has come out in the last 24 hours. All 5 states have early voting. The polls are from 9 different polling organizations.

They must all be wrong.

RWD said...

"the narrative is set for the home-stretch that Obama hasn't closed the deal and is dropping"

So what? People who look to Drudge to tell them who to vote for aren't going for Obama anyway. Honestly, the "tightening" narrative at this point in the game helps Obama by motivating his supporters.

Christopher said...

There is the elephant in the room that we're not discussing with 'tightening' polls. In many of the swing states (FL, OH, CO) people have been voting for a while. Colorado is already at half. Florida is well on it's way. Ohio has seem massive uptick in Dem counties. These votes are already banked. So, we'd do best to just aggregate the polls over the last two weeks for states with early voting. The final number will matter little for polls. That will only really matter in backwards states like PA, where everyone votes on election day (!). The nerve. :) Isn't that the sole reason that McCain chose that for his moonshot?

Ken said...

One other potential factor not mentioned by Nate is:
The Ballot measures are particularly complicated and confusing. Oregonians are used to vote-by-mail and like the fact that they can take their time over voting in the quiet of their homes. They may be taking time to figure out the confusing ballot measures; or similarly they may be taking time to consider Gordon Smith's fate.
I am an Oregonian and I spent about 10 hours reading and studying the ballot measures.
I have already voted and I voted for Obama, and I have a picture of my filled in ballot saved on my computer!

OTF said...

"The tightening in national trackers is inexplicable."

FOR THE 100th TIME THIS EWLECTION SEASON NATIONAL POLLS MEAN VERY LITTLE!

STATE POLLS MATTER and they are another good day for Obama with great numbers out of CO,PA,VA,NH(big leads in all). FL and NC are Obama leads also and the models are greatly underestimating Obama's support. They are modeling 2004 level tunrout of AA and that is not happening. NC,FL,GA all have hige lines in Dem areas. FL has to keep polls open 12hrs instead of 8.

For all the worry warts keep doing what your doinf if you are already volunteering at a phone bank or GOTV and if you are not use your worrisome energy to volunteer this weekend.

Ignore Rasmussen he threw the Republitards a bone to keep their hopes up.

Matt said...

Harris Poll (national)...

O: 50
M: 44

Harris Poll

RWD said...

"Oregon is not being contested at all this year. In '04 both candidates visited and there were several canvassers for both sides."

That's a big difference overall between 04 and 08. In 04, places like Oregon and Wisconsin were considered swing states, while places like North Carolina and Indiana were solidly GOP. This year, Ore and Wisc are afterthoughts while the battles rage in traditionally red states.

Jeff NYC Dem said...

ha! here's my validation word

FRETA

As in everyone stop FRETAing

SlipperySlope said...

Nate, I appreciate your turnout analysis for Oregon, but I wonder to what degree low red county turnout is already reflected in the Oregon snapshot poll.

According to uselectionatlas.org, Oregon voted 51.35% D and 47.19% R in 2004. Splitting the undecideds 50-50 in your current Oregon snapshot poll yields 57.5% D and 42.5% R. Thus the 2004 spread is +4.16 and the 2008 adjusted snapshot spread is +15.0. Assuming that polls incorporate some screening for likely voters, would not this difference completely explain the observed 19% reduction in red county turnout?

My point is that your analysis may be already incorporated in current polling, and not be a phenomenon beyond what current polls tell us. Please talk me down...

InkStain said...

"FOR THE 100th TIME THIS EWLECTION SEASON NATIONAL POLLS MEAN VERY LITTLE!"

And for the 101st time, this isn't true. This site's statistical model is based on the idea that, absent evidence to the contrary, states move with the national polls to a certain degree.

Juris said...

@Christopher: you may be right that the lack of early voting induced the McCain focus on PA -- that plus the lingering hope that they could the race card in the T ("Alabama," as Carville calls it) -- or, as Nate pointed out, some internal polls that suggested PA was more accessible to McCain than the public polls have shown (possibly simply an outlier).

Another explanation maybe just logical, mathematical: they needed at least one big takeaway from the Kerry states to soften the need to run the table on VA, NC, FL, CO, IN, OH.

Another Mike said...

Can someone tell me what percentage of registered voters are African American?

With the exception of states covered by the Voting Rights Act, I do not believe states compile data on the race of registered voters. So, for some states, mostly southern states, there is an answer. For most and overall, there's only guesses. Based on exit polls, however, we do know that AA vote share is historically slightly under their population share.

Mascalte--my word verification or a type of liqueur?

War Hussein Obama said...

Some of ou guys are like leaves in the wind.

by tommorrow we will have plenty more good news for Obama, and everyone will be dancing and proclaiming obama landslide margins.


I've been calling for Obama to win with over 330 EV's since around February when he had his primary streak.

The only two times I have felt less than confident of that have been a) the peak of the reverend wright controversy, and b) during the week when people apparently were loving palin despite all of her bullshit and scandals.

I'm a pretty realistic person, but I just never saw John McCain as a candidate that was capable of matching the movement that the Barack Obama campaign has become. Especially when it came to both increasing registration, and getting people to actually stand in line to vote, both of which require motivation and enthusiasm.

Simeon said...

@matt

What's the trendline on that Harris poll?

sabr_blogger said...

Poll out last night has McCain only up by 2 in Arizona.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/129144

Nate, in your copious free time, I'd love to see you take a deeper look into Arizona. I think something is happening there too. I think some of the pollsters are still using 2004 registration rates, while there has been a huge shift from Republican to Independent in the past 4 years.

I post over at the Intrade forum (as Delphi), and I've looked at the internals of a few polls. I think one recent poll would have had Obama up by 10 if they had been using up to date party ID weightings. See:

https://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/2915.page

Thanks for the great site and strong statistical work.

RWD said...

New Q-Pac polls...FL too close to call but O still has a huge lead in PA

Florida: Obama 47 to McCain's 45 percent, compared to 49 - 44 percent October 23;
Ohio: Obama up 51 - 42 percent, compared to 52 - 38 percent;
Pennsylvania: Obama ahead 53 - 41 percent, compared to 53 - 40 percent last time.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Well Jeez War Hussein Obama, why didn't you tell us this back in February and we could have just saved all this time and effort of battling back trolls and concern trolls and gone back to our normal lives.

David said...

"And for the 101st time, this isn't true. This site's statistical model is based on the idea that, absent evidence to the contrary, states move with the national polls to a certain degree."

The model at 538 incorporating the national tracker numbers is not evidence that national polls effect state to state polls by a meaningful amount.

It seems to be true in swing states, but that could mean that those states drive the trend lines.

Researcher,

Washington State is more or less vote by mail now.

PA John said...

To qoute Nate Silver:

"There is a lot of discussion going on about whether the national race is tightening; our model concludes that it is not. But what would meaningful 'tightening' look like in terms of the Electoral College?

Let me be oddly specific here. In order to conclude the Electoral College has tightened to the point where the outcome on November 4 is at least moderately uncertain, I would want to see the following between now and the election. Call it the 2/2/2 condition:

John McCain polling within 2 points in 2 or more non-partisan polls (sorry, Strategic Vision) in at least 2 out of the 3 following states: Colorado, Virginia, Pennsylvania.

If this condition is met, then I think there could be some drama on Election Night (though by no means would McCain be the favorite). If not, then it's very hard to imagine McCain winning."

Matt said...

@Simeon - Harris trend is unchanged from previous week. 50-44. Was 47-46 in September.

A note of caution - this is an online poll, so take it with a grain of salt.

Harris Tables

I have not seen these surveys included on any of the major polling aggregation sites.

Eric said...

FOLKS THIS IS A BIG DEAL! THEY"RE NOT ALL WRONG!!! ALL OF THESE POLLS HAVE BEEN RELEASED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS!

Nevada
Obama +10, Obama +4, Obama +12

Ohio
Obama +7, Obama +4, Obama +9, Obama +9

Pennsylvania
Obama +12, Obama +12, Obama +12, Obama +7, Obama +13

Virginia Obama +7, Obama +9

Colorado Obama +9, Obama +8

PorridgeGun said...

MATT J. H. said...

McCain is catching up on the economy big time with Obama. Obama got lax the last 10 days as he tends to do when winning. Obama will still win the election, but its going to be closer than it has to be.

Obama's greatest strength, he's so nice. Obama's greatest weakness, he's too nice.





I've been saying that for days. And the reaction: CONCERN TROLL.


Obama has more money, advertising, surrogates and camapaign rallys to steamroll McCain for the final week... and so far, he's hasn't used any of it to his advantage. He's been on the defensive. Tonight better be the turning point. He's got the 30 minute TV spot, and is on The Daily Show.



BTW, those 30 minutes better be worthwile in defining both Obama and McCain, because this reminds me of the Olympic ad buy. The Obama ads were weak that had no positive effect. The McCain campaign matched the buy, but ran Paris/Britney and Celebrity attack ads that resulted in Obama's number dropping.

He said...

Today's Gallup will show:

Obama 46
McCain 48

McCain +2 Traditional Likely Voters

Developing...

Davy said...

While I generally agree with HAL 10K's projections, I think you might be missing the substantive results in Oregon. Roughly 1/4 of the votes are in (out of 3.7 million people that amounts to 520,000). Voter registration is up heavily in the Democratic column. The majority of which live in the I-5 corridor; from Portland, the capital Salem and Medford, to College towns of Corvallis, Eugene, and Ashland. This is a game of numbers now.

Gordon Smith is a good guy but the backlash from the previous eight years is likely to propel Jeff Merkley into the senate seat. We may be 'mavericky' out here, but we're not stupid. There's a change on the wind.

Andrew said...

Blogger Eric said...

FOLKS THIS IS A BIG DEAL! THEY"RE NOT ALL WRONG!!! ALL OF THESE POLLS HAVE BEEN RELEASED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS!


Eric, I think the fear people are having is that the tightening in the national trackers hasn't shown up in the state polls yet. (The state polls you cited are all slightly older than the trackers.)

Personally, I think we'll see the state polls tighten as we head into the weekend. But not nearly enough to make McCain competitive in the states that count: CO, VA, and FL.

ChrisG said...

Probably a few of these polls tightening is a good thing for Democrats because that will keep them motivated to take nothing for granted.

In the end though what this tightening may be showing more than anything is McCain hardening his support in the very red states. The base is coming home to him, as was always expected. In just about ever single major battleground state Obama looks better today than he did two days ago. Of course they're going to hype the closest poll there is. Look at early voting, Republicans are very worried. Every minute Obama is locking down more votes than McCain across this country.

Andrew said...

CO, VA, and PA, that is.

RWD said...

Porridge, I would call you more of a worry-wart than a concern troll. A concern troll (as I understand it) is a McCain supporter who feigns concern about Obama's "poor performance". You seem to be a genuinely worried Obama supporter.

Andrew said...

BTW, those 30 minutes better be worthwile in defining both Obama and McCain, because this reminds me of the Olympic ad buy. The Obama ads were weak that had no positive effect. The McCain campaign matched the buy, but ran Paris/Britney and Celebrity attack ads that resulted in Obama's number dropping.

Correct me if I'm wrong, porridge, but you're Canadian or British, right? If you were American and were able to suffer with us through NBC's Olympics coverage, you would know that McCain's ads were of the cheesy "Original Maverick" variety.

lucyp said...

I have to work until 9 tonight, and have no way of recording tv!! Wonder if the 30 minute Obama Show will show up on the internets anywhere?

[My verification word is mental--a real word! And easy to use in a sentence: You're mental if you think the phrase "President McCain" sounds good. (imho, of course!)]

jnovkov said...

Former Oregonian here:

On Oregon, I have been watching the return numbers with some concern as well, comparing against 2004 and trying to come up with explanations. But this morning I realized that the appropriate comparator might not be 2004, but rather 2000. If you look at the percentage of ballots in the day-by-day returns, the comparative track is pretty similar (though I could not find county level historical info in a readily comparable form on the SOS website).

I suspect that we'll see something similar to 2000 in the turnout pattern -- more people voting later, but ultimately a very high total turnout (in 2000 the turnout was about 80% and in 04 85% in Oregon). Another thing to note in the comparison is that the 04 election featured 8 measures, most of which were either pretty straightforward legislative cleanups or at least fell out along clear ideological grounds. (The only real exception was the abolition of SAIF.) 2000 had more than 20, several of which were Sizemore hot messes. This year there are twelve, most of which are Sizemore/Mannix, and people are probably taking a little longer to figure out how to parse the different crime measures.

I've convinced myself not to worry too much . . . . but thanks so much for your take on it as well!

Julie Novkov

justin32099 said...

"Obama has more money, advertising, surrogates and camapaign rallys to steamroll McCain for the final week... and so far, he's hasn't used any of it to his advantage. He's been on the defensive."

I just don't understand this. No, Obama's numbers haven't continued to improve, but there wasn't much room for improvement in his numbers anyway. As they are they're remarkable. How has Obama's campaign become defensive? He's continuing the same message he's had for months: McCain is too similar to Bush, especially on the economy, and Bush was bad for us. This is not a defensive message.

Seje said...

eric said...
FOLKS THIS IS A BIG DEAL! THEY"RE NOT ALL WRONG!!! ALL OF THESE POLLS HAVE BEEN RELEASED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS!

released in the last 24 hours but samples were interviewed more than 48 hours ago.

Andrew said...

Obama's greatest strength, he's so nice. Obama's greatest weakness, he's too nice.

I've been saying that for days. And the reaction: CONCERN TROLL.


My reaction: BULLSHIT. Ask Hillary Clinton or Alice Palmer whether Obama is "too nice."

Juris said...

According to the best available estimates, AA voters made up 11% of all voters in 2004 election.

It's fair to assume that it will be roughly the same or slightly larger percentage in 2008, given overall increases in registration and early voting this year.

However, all indications are that the AA voters will be somewhat more pro-Dem this year than in 2004. In terms of contribution to overall Obama vs. McCain outcome, I'll let others make the calculation -- maybe net <1 percentage point for Obama on national scale?

However, Nate has done some calculations about net impact of upsurge of young voters, AA, and Latino voters (search Google for "Poblano Effect"), which together might make a lot of difference on net.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

To be honest, I'm surprised the McCain campaign hasn't focused more on Obama's infomercial and tried to minimize it more. They did a bit yesterday but no coordinated effort. I wasn't going to say anything to help them out but if I were in his campaign, I would have tried to cheapen the infomercial somehow and attempt to make it look silly.

But, as Obama did with his acceptance speech rebutting the attacks building up to the event, he would have just slammed them out of the park with the ball most likely.

SnapShot said...

But what about Tillamook county?

I was kind of curious where my home -- back when I was a child -- falls on the red/blue divide.

I assume it's faint red, but would love to see the data.

justin32099 said...

"released in the last 24 hours but samples were interviewed more than 48 hours ago."

Also, the "fresh off the press" Rasmussen number everyone's been talking about included interviews from Sunday.

There's always a lag between the interview being conducted and the poll being released.

RWD said...

"According to the best available estimates, AA voters made up 11% of all voters in 2004 election.
It's fair to assume that it will be roughly the same or slightly larger percentage in 2008"

But this is a case where a national perspective is not that relavent. What is important is whether AA turnout is up, and by how much, in southern swing states like VA, NC, and GA.

word: chaggen. If I were a brit I might say, "we were chaggen when me mum walked in on us"

MysticLaker said...

Does anyone know what national polls we will be seeing today?

NBC/WSJ?

Davy said...

For those of you wanting to keep up with Oregon's voting stats:

http://www.sos.state.or.us/elections/nov42008/daily.pdf

1/4 of the populace has voted already.

Bilbo Hussein Baggins said...

When are new National non-tracker polls coming out (NBC, CBS, Time, CNN, etc)? These polls show a much larger O spread than the trackers.

Eric said...

African-Americans make up 13.8% of the population, estimated at 38,662,569 total. 24,910,000 were 18+ years old in 2004. 16,035,000 were registered. 14,016,000 voted. 8,875,000 were not registered. 10,894,000 over 18 did not vote.

% breakdown

64.4% Registered
56.3% voted
43.7% did not vote
35.6% not registered

For whites, the #s look like this:

67.9% Registered
60.3% voted
39.7% did not vote
32.1% not registered

Assuming similar turnout % to Whites in 2004 for Blacks in 2008, we'd have about 1,000,000 more African-American votes.

Green said...

I work from home and do some channel surfing during the day.
The Obama camp has not shut down the Socialist BS effectively.

Some of their spokespersons (Bill Burton is the ABSOLUTE WORST!) just don't know how to articulate.
Maybe they are told to stonewall it thinking it will go away.

But there must be a reason the McCain camp keeps pounding. They must see at least some traction (and don't tell me that the natl. polls should be tightening this much- I think they should be widening for Obama)

Anyway, look at this and swingstaters out there let us know what, if anything, you are seeing on the commercials that refutes the Socialist shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EyGpOU3qM&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/

All that said, I think it's too late for McCain. The cake is baking before our eyes.
But, shit, I want blood and a landslide and a repudiation of the entire Republican 28 year crime against this country I love.

lillyahoo said...

I wouldn't read too much into the light early returns in Oregon - they got the ballots out late. Most people I know only received theirs Friday or Saturday, and mine didn't come until yesterday. There's also been a mixup in at least one county where they didn't mail them to people with PO box addresses. So I think you'll see these coming in in the next few days.

sfergus483 said...

Bottom line - Obama might not be able to get more than 50-51% ultimately. And 49% will likely be enough to win the national popular vote.

AND with the EV map, he could actually lag behind McCain in the PV and still win.

If the national margin is tightening, then expect in a day or two the state margins to tighten as well - that always happens. So brace yourself for that.

This quasi-surge for McCain - if it exists - then forces swing voters to take another look at McCain. Or rather McCain/Palin. It's good that, if it is happening, it is doing so now rather than over the weekend.

The ground game counts easily for 2-3 extra points for Obama. Always remember that as well.

MysticLaker said...

Where McCain is...

http://www.johnmccain.com/calendar/

All campaign stops in PA, OH, VA for McCain.

Palin does the same plus IN, MO...

CO, NM, NV, NC are left undefended. IN, MO are basically left undefended. This is great news for John McCain.

Eric said...

Nevada
Obama +10, Obama +4, Obama +12
You guys are missing my point. I've watched this thing extremely closely all the way through. i watch all of the polling data as it comes out. State polls lag nationals, but look at the margins. Then realize that McCain is not going to win Pennsylvania and has to win ALL of the other 4 plus a bunch of others I didn't mention. Obama is building a cushion, based on current status in those states. MCcain will probably have to move all 4 of those states 8-10 points inorder towin the election. Obama is spending money targeting states riht now. Even if we assume MCCain has made up 2-3 points in those states, how is he going to make up the other 6-8 points? He's not.



Ohio
Obama +7, Obama +4, Obama +9, Obama +9

Pennsylvania
Obama +12, Obama +12, Obama +12, Obama +7, Obama +13

Virginia Obama +7, Obama +9

Colorado Obama +9, Obama +8

OTF said...

Rasmussen is setting back laughing right now. He throws a bone to Repubs and people are gettin worried.

McCain has to win every battelground state Bush won in 2004or pull a miracle in PA and still win 6 of them.

In PA 3 polls today and all huge Obama leads.

OH Obama has had some of his best polls in months the last few days all +4 to 9. All pollsters are consistent at atleast +4

CO, VA Obama clearly outside the MOE

NV is now a Obama lean and he has lead every poll in October.

NC,FL Obama up and his turnout is huge thus far and 2004 models are being used.

RWD said...

"CO, NM, NV, NC are left undefended"

I think McCain has written off Co Nm and Nv and is just hoping NC goes red b/c it always does.

Another Mike said...

Interesting stats eric re black voting. What is the source?

OTF said...

Rasputin state polls today:
AK,MI,MN,NM

sfergus483 said...

The scary thought is that the less a state sees of McCain and/or Palin the better they do.

The happy thought is that even if they avoid a bunch of states, PA, VA and FL will see a lot of them.

Ceolaf said...

Any time you are looking at changes over time -- think of how schools are rated in NCLB -- the most extreme changes will be the smallest units.

For schools, that means that the one that show the most improvement and the worst decline with invariably be the smallest schools.

In this sample, the two obvious outliers are the smallest counties.

This is entirely expected. It does not mean that small schools are better or worse, or that small towns vote more or less. It means that smaller samples have more variable averages. Small sample size.

Predictable.

muzzybeat said...

I live in Oregon, and as much as I love Nate's articles, he seems to have missed perhaps the main reason election results are lower SO FAR in Oregon. This ballot we received this year is stuffed with ballot measures. There are 12 this year as opposed to 8 in 2004. Some of them this year really require a good deal of voter contemplation, such as the two revised sentencing measures. My Voter Guide booklet comes in two volumes and the ballot measures one, with arguments for and against, this year is HUGE. It's almost like a telephone book. So, I personally let it sit there a lot longer than I would have normally... just not wanting to do all that extra work until I have to.

-Michael

Eric said...

It's like the quote from Nate paraphrased above, basically,

show me two non-partisan polls within 48 hours of election time that show 2 of these 3 states within 2 points:

Colorado
Virginia
Pennsylvania

Then maybe we'll pause. Otherwise, no worries.

Christopher said...

What's really striking is that the suppposed 'Western' candidate is doing awful in the actual west (CO, NV, NM). I'd also throw AZ in there since it's his home state. Arizona has been killed by the housing crash. They are in dire straits there. If the home state guy weren't running, it would be a runaway Dem state this cycle.

HA. Word verification: woryer

melquiades said...

Could you please STOP drawing trendlines on your scatterplots?

My eyes work fine; I can judge the trend for myself. The trendline is just junk, a distraction.

Thanks.

LAT said...

can you hand wringers stop second guessing Obama? Someone here saying Obama is slacking off? what? in what world are you living?

If you are so worried than do something like phone banking instead of playing arm chair general and freaking out.

Me I am off to call florida because this hysterical hand wringing is pissing me off.

Sorry for the rant. Just hate this fair weather freak out who dance when Obama is up 15 on PEW (oh wait that was yesterday) and then get all critical because Rass is 3.

Another Mike said...

The overall turnout in Oregon is the much less interesting aspect of Nate's post. The important point is the relative turnout between Rep leaning and Dem leaning counties. Unless there's some other explanation for it, it seems like good evidence that Dems are more excited about this election and more likely to turnout than Reps. Nothing really shocking given all the circumstantial evidence of the same and early vote totals elsewhere.

Juris said...

Nate, if you're reading for this, here's an exercise: Suppose your "SuperTracker" estimates relied only on state polls (plus the nearest neighbor adjustments) but did not take national trackers/polls into account. How much different would the tracker look over the last few weeks without that last step?

I realize that you're using the national polling data in part to smooth your estimates at state level as well as at national level, but now that the density of state polling has increased a great deal (though not uniformly across states), it would be interesting to see how much the inclusion/exclusion of national polls matters to the super tracker and also to your electoral vote projections.

This might also be a useful tool for you on election night -- the "state only" and "state + national" tracker and EV projections. How easy is it to back out the national polling from your model?

Green said...

HELP MAKE THIS YOU TUBE GO VIRAL.

MAKES MCCAIN LOOK LIKE THE TOTAL STUNT MAN HYPOCRITE HE IS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EyGpOU3qM&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/

Pass it around folks...

Eric said...

Palin is dumb. They'll cut parts of her speech and show tidbits later, but I watched the whole thing. She's an awful orator. doesn't understand what she's saying. Diarrhea of the mouth, constantly losing the audience in Ohio about energy.

Buckeye said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/us/politics/29anxiety.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

Reading this article I believe you will see something historical. I believe polls that are supposed to be close at between 7-9 in the south will see lines not stopping until 3-4AM.

dvdmgsr said...

To be honest, I'm surprised the McCain campaign hasn't focused more on Obama's infomercial and tried to minimize it more. They did a bit yesterday but no coordinated effort. I wasn't going to say anything to help them out but if I were in his campaign, I would have tried to cheapen the infomercial somehow and attempt to make it look silly.

It will probably be more effective to cast aspersions about it after the fact. "Did you see Obama's informercial last night..."

I share the same doubts that many of you have about this television appearance. It seems like something you might do when you're behind. Of course, Obama's campaign has exhibited a fair amount of strategic wisdom up to this point, so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'm still uncomfortable with it.

Josh said...

Obama should make a few strong arguments against the BS "socialist" smear.

1. John McCain is a socialist by his definition.

2. Medicare & Social Security are examples of "socialist" programs. Remind voters that the GOP used the same "socialist" scare tactics against Medicare.

3. Sarah Palin comes from the most socialist state in the United States and has used the "spread the wealth" phrase herself in the past.

4. The entire basis of the "socialist" attacks are that Obama is rolling back the tax cuts for the rich that Bush put into place. His tax rates will be the same (or lower) than they were during Clinton & Reagan. If McCain is calling Obama a "socialist" then he's calling Reagan one too.

---

The "socialist" BS is pretty easily knocked down if you fight back with the facts - I do think they need to do that. It doesn't seem like something you want to wait until the last second to do either.

osyntax said...

lurking for months and love the site! I'm an Oregon voter casting my ballot today. I even took a photo of it to keep for a souvenir showing my vote for Obama. I would have voted sooner, but for the nasty senate race referred to above. I didn't want to vote for either candidate, but finally chose the democrat. Also, my dad a long-time republican in a conservative area is voting Obama and he said many of his old-boy friends are too. Just because republicans are casting votes, doesn't mean they are voting McCain.

Davy said...

@muzzybeat

True dat:

I confess I let myself be guided by the local rag on the issues simply because I wanted to get out the vote for Obama, Merkley and Eugene city Mayor Kitty Piercy.

I did; however, vote down (as usual) anything promoted by anyone named Sizemore or Mannix. What a couple of douchbags.

chopperjc said...

n 04 The final results were 51 48. 3 million votes nationally. Before I get concerned I asked myself 3 questions.

1. Has the campaign moved 2% of the voters that will vote? George Bush did that on his own. The democrats have a candidate that has solidified the base and has moved more than 2% of the voters into his camp. The Obama campaign has been perfect so far.

2. Are the democrats organized? Money! Look at the money that has been raised. Sure big donors account for a lot but 3.1 million people + volunteers have invested in the campaign. The ground game from every one you hear from is powerful. The democrats are organized for once. This is new. The net roots has more people involved with more information in the mainstream than ever. It is easier to vote know than it ever has. Any voting problems are being watched very close. There are still problems and I am afraid Pennsylvania may be a voting nightmare because of no early voting. Florida will be better this time. We went to optical and Crist even changed hours. He does not want to be the Governor who screwed up another election. In places of Democratic possible pickups early turnout has been very good.

3. Has there been any external events? It is the economy stupid. In '04 the house lost 3 seats down to 200. Some estimates could put the democrats in charge of 260 seats. In the senate the Democrats lost 4 and they were down to 44. Estimates her look real good for 58. The change did not just happen. It has been coming since the end of '04.

In conclusion get a bottle ready it is going to be fun on the 4th. Keep working though!

Joseph said...

AGK Polls

AP-Gfk
10/22-26/08
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews
(source)

Colorado 626 LV, 3.9%
Obama 50, McCain 41

Florida 600 LV, 4%
Obama 45, McCain 43

Nevada 628 LV, 3.9%
Obama 52, McCain 40

New Hampshire 600 LV, 4%
Obama 55, McCain 37

North Carolina 601 LV, 4%
Obama 48, McCain 46

Ohio 607 LV, 4%
Obama 48, McCain 41

Pennsylvania 607 LV, 4%
Obama 52, McCain 40

Virginia 601 LV, 4%
Obama 49, McCain 42

WOW! Nearly 20 pts in NH!!

Andrew said...

The "socialist" BS is pretty easily knocked down if you fight back with the facts - I do think they need to do that.

You're right about that. It's pretty easily refuted.

"John McCain says I'm a socialist. But the tax rates under my plan would be lower than what Ronald Reagan enacted. Does John McCain think Ronald Reagan was a socialist?