10.06.2008

In Georgia, Small Improvements in Black Voter Participation May Make Big Difference

Perhaps the only happy consequence of the segregation era is that a number of Southern states like Georgia are required by the Voting Rights Act to keep statistics on registration and turnout by the race of the voter. Those statistics suggest that black voter registration is up materially from 2004.

Here are the numbers. In November 2004, black voters represented 27.4 percent of Georgia's active registered voter pool. As of October 1st, that figure has increased to 29.0 percent.

Now, that might not seem like all that big a difference. But suppose that the black vote is split 95/5 between Obama and McCain, and the nonblack vote is split 30/70. (Obama probably will not win 30 percent of the white vote. But since Georgia also contains material numbers of Hispanic and Asian voters, winning 30 percent of the nonblack vote is probably reasonable).

In 2004, also according to statistics from the Georgia Secretary of State, black voters made up 25.4 percent of election day turnout (this means that they participated at slightly lower rates than white voters). Applying those 95/5 and 30/70 voter splits to the 25.4 percent figure would work out to a 7.0-point win for John McCain, about where polls seem to have Georgia now.

Now suppose that black and nonblack voters each turn out at the same rates as they did in 2004, but that we account for the increase in black registration. According to our math, John McCain's 7.0-point lead is now cut to 4.9 points.

But that is probably too conservative an assumption. Newly-registered voters -- and nearly half of Georgia's newly-registered voters are black -- turn out at higher rates than previously registered voters. In addition, one would assume that the opportunity to vote for the first African-American nominee might be just a little bit of a motivating factor for black voters. Suppose that African-Americans represent 29.0 percent of Georgia's turnout, matching their share of active registrations. Using the splits we described above, McCain's lead is now cut to 2.3 points.

Even this, however, may be too conservative. For one thing, the registration window in Georgia is not yet over ... it concludes today. The statistics I cited above only reflected registrations through September 30. There is typically a surge of registrations in the final few days before the deadline. In 2004, Georgia's active voter rolls increased by about 150,000 persons in the first four days of October, before the registration deadline closed. That was more than they'd increased in the entire month of September.

So suppose that by tonight, black voters have increased to 30 percent of Georgia's registered voter pool. Plugging that 30 percent number in, McCain's advantage is a mere 1 point.

Think these numbers sound unreasonable? Early voting is underway in Georgia, and according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, black voters do not represent 30 percent of Georgia's early voter turnout. Instead, they represent almost 40 percent. Although early voting figures can be idiosyncratic , Barack Obama certainly seems to be having little trouble getting his vote out. Indeed, Barack Obama is winning Georgia right now.

A related question is whether the pollsters are underrepresenting the black vote in their turnout estimates in states like Georgia. I think they might be. In their past two surveys of Georgia, SurveyUSA pegged black voter turnout at 25-26 percent. This is a pretty safe assumption, since it exactly matches the Secretary of State's turnout estimate from 2004. But this isn't 2004. I would be surprised if black turnout wasn't at least 27-28 percent, and somewhere in the 29-31 percent range is entirely possible. If those numbers are achieved, Georgia is pretty close to being a toss-up. And if it is a toss-up for Barack Obama, it is probably also a toss-up for Jim Martin, who is attempting to unseat Saxby Chambliss from the Senate.

Georgia is not quite a tipping-point state. In order to win it, Barack Obama will have to have made at least some inroads with Southern whites, and if he's done so, that will mean that he's won states like Virginia and North Carolina and won't need Georgia's electoral votes. But I'd guess that it represents a more plausible pickup opportunity for Obama than states like West Virginia and Montana, which are nominally closer in the polling. And if these black voter registration numbers are replicated throughout the South, Elizabeth Dole, Saxby Chambliss and Roger Wicker could all face tough re-election battles, substantially increasing the Democrats' chances of winning 60 Senate seats.

417 comments

bm said...

Really nice scenario. But Obama doesn't seem to believe in it:

"Georgia may be one of those cases [where the Obama campaign missed its registration targets]. Obama aides say the campaign has 53 paid staff in Georgia, down from at least 75 last month and more than 100 at an earlier stage" (LA Times, October 6, 2008)

Real Joe said...

hurn0003 said...
Real Joe,

I am confused. You are concerned about the market but voting for McCain, a man who is completely ignorant about the economy(by his own admission). Mind if I ask your motivation for voting for McCain?

John

i'm voting for him because he will cut my taxes :-)

i don't mind a bear market

i'm making money

d.K. said...

I may be mis-reading, but a political scientist quoted in the WaPo today (page A4, re: voter registration gains) seems to assert that "new registrants tend to vote at reasonable high rates but not "very" high rates...Most surge in turnout comes from already registered voters."

I'm wondering what your evidence is that new registerees vote in higher numbers (though I agree, it seems logical)? Is this supported by studies?

Voice of the Midwest said...

Georgia has demographically changed a lot since the Civil Rights era. The AA vote will likely have its' highest TO in '08 since 1964, there has been an exponential increase in new residents of suburban ATL from the north over the past two decades, and there is a Libertarian on the ballot from GEORGIA this year.

This makes the state a 45/45/10 state on election night.

Real Joe said...

intrade

Obama 66.0

McCain 34.7

Real Joe said...

DOW down 500

OTF said...

DJIA down 550+ ...9777

Frank Drackman said...

McCains secret weapon is that Obama looks like the guy that stole your Car Stereo, buys Heiniken with Food Stamps(I know its illegal, still happens),and will give you Genital Warts if you're unfortunate enough to get thrown in the Fulton County Jail(its the Deputies you gotta worry about). And don't call me racist or I'll sick the JDL on Y'all.

Finch said...

Real Joe - The problem is that your argument won't work for most Americans, the majority of whom will save something like $700 more under Obama's tax plan than McCain's. I'm assuming you make more than others here, based on your comments (no need to share your income, of course).

CA-8 said...

Cugel is right. Republicans bank on lateral demonization instead of vertical demonization. The white guy working on the assembly line in the factory is supposed to hate the guy standing next to him because of his skin color. Even though the white guy has more in common with his coworkers, no matter the color of their skin, than with the Republican politicians he votes for who make it easy via their policies for the factory they are working in to close up shop and leave them BOTH unemployed.

Richard said...

Voted early in Georgia last Thursday (10/2) 45-minute wait in line, and this was before the VP debate. Georgia is ready to be flipped. Strong turnout for AA and young people so far. And in areas that are predominately black, turnout has been very heavy since day one. I think the pre-vote estimates have been low because no one recognizes the fact that this is the first time AA's have have an opportunity to vote for a presidential candidate like Obama. I think the Dems will do very will in Atlanta and other major cities; not too sure about rural Georgia, though.

OTF said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Charles Crook said...

Dow down 500+.

See you at the bottom.

Finch said...

Republicans bank on lateral demonization instead of vertical demonization.

Absolutely. This has been their key anti-labor strategy for nearly a century.

OTF said...

The campaign is not turning away from the economy. If the DJIA closes below 10K the lead story on the evening news is going to be Dow closes below 10K for the first time since 2004.

hurn0003 said...

Well Real Joe I certainly give you credit for your honesty, but don't you have kids or anything that you worry about?

What makes me maddest about these tax cuts, is that they are essentially a tax on the young and unborn upon whom they are shifting their debts upon.

michiganmaine said...

Dow down more than 500 points. Must be that terrorist Ayers' work.

Dmitry said...

Keep on smokin' that weed, Nate.

Real Joe said...

Good Morning dmitry

markedhomo said...

ooh dmitry troll is here!

Charles Crook said...

WSJ describes McCain plan to cut Medicare / Medicaid by " $1.3 trillion over 10 years" to pay for the 5K tax credit.

The words "cut Medicare" don't make elderly Floridians happy.

CA-8 said...

Real Joe, is it all about making money for yourself? Do you not see other advantages to voting for Obama? (e.g., increased respect in the world, less militarization/more diplomacy, a more humane health care plan, the assumption that Obama will put qualified people into government positions instead of unqualified cronies and partisan hacks, etc., the crushing debt that will only increase under McCain)

I'm not begrudging you making money, but does your individual "need" to make money undermine at all any philosophy you have about the U.S. in other realms?

Hope I'm being clear. :)

ialex said...

AA turnout was high in 2004 and 2000. They're consistently just behind non-Hispanic whites in turnout with the second highest rates of turnout. I guess the numbers will go through the roof, but we'll see.

Big No said...

Any early turnout numbers from previous years in Georgia so that we could compare the 40% to something?

So What Exactly Is a Maverick?

Real Joe said...

charles crook said...
WSJ describes McCain plan to cut Medicare / Medicaid by " $1.3 trillion over 10 years" to pay for the 5K tax credit.

The words "cut Medicare" don't make elderly Floridians happy.


now thats not a good thing if its true

link ?

Alex S. said...

"McCains secret weapon is that Obama looks like the guy that stole your Car Stereo, buys Heiniken with Food Stamps(I know its illegal, still happens),and will give you Genital Warts if you're unfortunate enough to get thrown in the Fulton County Jail(its the Deputies you gotta worry about). And don't call me racist or I'll sick the JDL on Y'all."

You´re a racist.

Charles Crook said...

wsj.com

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Aaron said...

AA turnout was high in 2004 and 2000. They're consistently just behind non-Hispanic whites in turnout with the second highest rates of turnout. I guess the numbers will go through the roof, but we'll see.

Yea. I'm not sure why people think AAs don't vote. They do. As you said their turnout rates are second highest among all groups. Asians and Hispanics are next.

Voice of the Midwest said...

i'm voting for him because he will cut my taxes :-) (Real Joe)

He is not cutting taxes as much as he maintaining the same rates Bush established.

The same tax code that led to a lack in incentive to invest in the market and establish new businesses. Why would you want that if you have a yen for the free market, as do I?

I agree with Warren Buffett: Take the top bracket up to 39% (as Obama is suggesting) and graduate capital gains tax rates (you pay less the longer you stick with an investment and paying no more than 5% after five years in the stock - as Obama has intimated).

You will stimulate the market for the long term, pay down the deficit, and restore the value in the dollar while stabilizing credit markets.

The Republicans were once the party that said they were the adults in the room on economic issues. They were once deficit hawks. Those conservatives are gone and have been replaced by the "all government is bad" crowd. Clinton balanced the budget and grew the economy: this forced the hands of the GOP to be the party of low taxes only, damn the torpedoes on deficits.

Deficits kill. Now the Democrats hold the title of adult in the room when it comes to balancing the budget. Clinton did it with lower tax rates for the wealthy than Reagan had for the same group he called his main constituency.

The myth is that Republicans are the fiscal conservatives just because they say "tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts". Truth is, adults pay their bills and balance the budget. The Democrats are now the deficit hawks. Deficits are double the taxes fifteen years from now to all tax brackets.

OTF said...

aaron,

It's very state dependent on the turnout numbers, it was like 54% in florida in 2004. 600,000 registered AA people didn't vote and the 400,000 eligible AA weren't registered.

pbocaps said...

thatmarvelousape said...

Well, it looks like, despite the furious spin from the media, the people have clearly ruled Thursday's debate in Biden's favor. Thanks but no thanks, Governor Palin.


I agree, but do you have any partic. polls to link to?

CA-8 said...

@alex s.: "McCains secret weapon is that Obama looks like the guy that stole your Car Stereo, buys Heiniken with Food Stamps(I know its illegal, still happens),and will give you Genital Warts if you're unfortunate enough to get thrown in the Fulton County Jail(its the Deputies you gotta worry about). And don't call me racist or I'll sick the JDL on Y'all."

That's very offensive stuff.

Do you think you capitalized enough words in that paragraph? Yeesh.

Alex s.: Living proof that defunding education doesn't work.

David said...

RWC and Drackman,

Keep clinging to the notion that racists are going to save McCain!

What does it say about McCain, that his best hope are racists who can't admit they support McCain over the phone?

Alex S. said...

ca-8:

I quoted! I quoted frank drackman.

Real Joe said...

ca-8 said...
Real Joe, is it all about making money for yourself? Do you not see other advantages to voting for Obama? (e.g., increased respect in the world, less militarization/more diplomacy, a more humane health care plan, the assumption that Obama will put qualified people into government positions instead of unqualified cronies and partisan hacks, etc., the crushing debt that will only increase under McCain)

I'm not begrudging you making money, but does your individual "need" to make money undermine at all any philosophy you have about the U.S. in other realms?

Hope I'm being clear. :)


increased respect in the world -

i don't care what foreigners think

less militarization/more diplomacy -

are you a pussy ?

a more humane health care plan-

i have healthcare

he assumption that Obama will put qualified people into government positions instead of unqualified cronies and partisan hacks-

i don't want liberals in the government

CA-8 said...

Alex s: So sorry. My bad. :( No coffee yet.

CA-8: Living proof that coffee before posting is a good thing.

Real Joe said...

charles crook said...
wsj.com

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html#articleTabs%3Darticle



nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... :-(

bad move !

we are so fu**ed in FL

Real Joe said...

thanks for the link charles

Voice of the Midwest said...

"now thats not a good thing if its true" - (Real Joe)

McCain's policy papers and stump speech outside of Florida is to take Medicare further into the private market and with that "privatization", in turn cut the Medicare budget by "$1.3 billion to $1.5 billion".

Considering he is wanting to turn this money back to seniors so they can buy their own health insurance (that his other policies say should be taxed), I do not think the overall message will sell with retired Floridians who are not used to taxes on most anything.

Real Joe said...

McCain ~ Country First ~

McCain=Tax Cut

JD said...

Nate way overestimates these effects. I have debunked these myths at length.

David said...

Joe,

You should care what foreigners think. It has a direct relation to the stability of the world.

Oh yeah, you are for endless war because you are afraid that not having a war will make you less of a man.

You have healthcare for now, but it is 100% dependent on your employers financial status, and if you look at Wall Street, that could change for the worse.

Your "me first, screw everyone else" is exactly why we are slipping into a third world nation.

Finch said...

i don't care what foreigners think

It's a globalized world. It's foreigners with whom we do business, and foreigners with whom we have to compete. American interests abroad are advanced by the respect we engender.

are you a pussy ?

Penis envy, is it?

i have healthcare

Everyone knows the current healthcare regime has become a drag on business, on consumers, on government - on everyone. If SEIU and Business Roundtable can sit down together, you know it's legit. Your attitude places you in the minority. Not that minority status necessarily makes you wrong, just irrelevant.

i don't want liberals in the government

Get used to it.

Real Joe said...

FL seniors will stay home or worse vote obama

if the local FL media picks this up...OMG

this is really bad :-(

we need to win FL

DCM in FL said...

GA - somewhat surprised that Nate's post did not mention that there will probably be hell to pay in GA & other SE states right now during early voting & absentee balloting because of the runup in gas prices & the 'shortages' since Hurricane Ike.

that is the most primal of urges - to hold those in power responsible. which is the GOP in the SE & Bush/McCain nationally.

gas here in FL spiked over $4/gal and is still over $3.60 on average - which is higher than in SoCal !!!

every absentee ballot that I know of returned already in FL voted to throw out all the GOP bums that were on the ballot - all the way down the line.

Besides high AA turnout in GA for early voting, I would expect most other early voters to bet their pocketbooks too [and their last good nerve from the gas lines] and vote AGAINST against McCain [& Chambliss] - even if it is a protest vote for Barr, that would help Obama.

Foregone Conclusion said...

Real Joe,

Has it occured to you that, if people find McCain's policies disturbing and frightening, you don't actually DESERVE to win?

Real Joe said...

david said...
why we are slipping into a third world nation.


we are turning into a third world nation because our borders are wide open

where the fu** is the wall ??

if things go on like this

whites will be the minority well before 2040

i'm not anti immigrant but i'm anti ILLEGAL immigrant

ialex said...

wsj.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html#articleTabs%3Darticle



...The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates....

Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, which would offer subsidies to help consumers pay for premiums. The Tax Policy Center estimates that his plan would cost $1.6 trillion over 10 years and cover 34 million more people.

ScottGA said...

Real Joe, you just said it was all about yourself.

"are you a pussy?" - You really think that's the best policy? I can't even argue if it really is. Do you really think foreigners are all stupid?

"I have healthcare" - So do I, but I can't just say screw everyone else. I'm not quite comfortable with a nationalized system yet, but I can look beyond myself and hope we can find a way to get those that really are trying coverage. Go talk to Europeans and get an idea of what they think. Don't just believe all the hype generated by the few bad examples that make news here.

"he assumption that Obama will put qualified people into government positions instead of unqualified cronies and partisan hacks, i don't want liberals in the government" - I just want intelligent people in place that can look at problems without making partisan assumptions. I can't guarantee either candidate will. IMO, Obama seems more likely to be able to do this though.

markedman said...

"i don't care what foreigners think" - Real Joe

wow joe I was just beginning to like you, that's both arrogant and dangerous.

:(
not cool

Real Joe said...

foregone conclusion said...
Real Joe,

Has it occured to you that, if people find McCain's policies disturbing and frightening, you don't actually DESERVE to win?


fu**ing medicare is not good :-(

Voice of the Midwest said...

McCain ~ Country First ~

McCain=Tax Cut (Real Joe)


Sorry, Joe, but you are not putting your country first if you want to increase the deficit and hand the debt and responsibility off to our kids. Now more than ever, we need to be adults and straighten out our economic house.

Increase the top tier rates (my rates) to 39% and pay down the deficit. It is how adults behave. Don't think so? The biggest proponent of that approach is Warren Buffett - a billionaire.

Close the loopholes that hurt our country by taking jobs out of country and renegotiate the free trade agreements that take jobs elsewhere and give dictators and ne'er do wells incentive to violate human rights.

Real Joe said...

markedman said...
"i don't care what foreigners think" - Real Joe

wow joe I was just beginning to like you, that's both arrogant and dangerous.

:(
not cool


Mark

foreigners don't give a fu** about us

DCM in FL said...

JD said...

"Nate way overestimates these effects. I have debunked these myths at length."

these are not Nate's 'myths' - his scenario is based upon solid data to support his speculation.

this year cannot predictive modeling must consider valid NEW assumptions rather than rely only upon past historical trends that there is no rational reason to presume will apply.

your 'flatearth' logic clinging to old models is no better or no more accurate [since at this point it cannot be 'proven accurate] than Nate's forward thinking scientific projection of recognized variables that support these underlying trends.

both approaches are best guess estimates - we shall see on November 5th which one is more accurate.

I am with Nate on hedging his bets this cycle.

same scenario with the cellphone effect - it may prove to be quite dramatic but cannot be 'proven' until November 5th.

in reverse, that old canard the 'bradley effect' - hopefully the results will put that to rest come November...

Black Political Analysis said...

I think I've read all the comments, but maybe I missed one. Yes, there will be a surge in black and youth turnout in GA, but won't there be a surge in white turnout too? I live in MS where the young white vote is very much energized by McCain/Palin.

Voice of the Midwest said...

we are turning into a third world nation because our borders are wide open

where the fu** is the wall ?? (Real Joe)

Joe:

The borders were wide open from 1885 to 1945 and we established the greatest middle class and economy known to mankind.

BTW, did you spring forth from the ground? You are the product of immigrants, Joe. There is immigrant blood in your history - don't lie and say you are the only "pure 'murrican!".

Your attitude is why we are dying as a country internally and losing respect externally. To be so insular in such unstable times is dangerous.

The Klan and John Birch Society depend on such narrow-mindedness to thrive. You aren't with them, are you?

Real Joe said...

black political analysis said...

I live in MS where the young white vote is very much energized by McCain/Palin.


there is "hope" :-)

DiZmO said...

I wonder, does your analysis of Georgia take into account third party candidates like Bob Barr?

While I think his overall effect will be negligible, he was a Representative from Georgia so if he were to have any affect on the race It would be in his home state.

It may be that Obama only needs 46 or 47% of the vote in Georgia to win. Barr gets 5-6% McCain gets around 40%.

Roderick said...

Why do you guys even acknowledge this annoying and lame troll Real Joe.


Cant you see this guy is just an obsessive dickhole.

Cooper said...

Nate,
Being an Atlantan, I've been hoping you would address the interesting situation in GA. Everything I see on a daily basis makes me think Georgia is closer than everyone thinks (I've just been nervous to say it out loud). I won't get my hopes up but I would love to see this wonderful diverse, progressive state I grew up in go blue. I definitely think the excitement here is being underestimated.

Nick said...

My prediction on the Fox/Rasmussen polls.

MO= M+4
OH= Tied
FL= M+1
VA= O+2

Real Joe said...

voice of the midwest said...
we are turning into a third world nation because our borders are wide open

where the fu** is the wall ?? (Real Joe)

Joe:

The borders were wide open from 1885 to 1945 and we established the greatest middle class and economy known to mankind.

BTW, did you spring forth from the ground? You are the product of immigrants, Joe. There is immigrant blood in your history - don't lie and say you are the only "pure 'murrican!".

Your attitude is why we are dying as a country internally and losing respect externally. To be so insular in such unstable times is dangerous.

The Klan and John Birch Society depend on such narrow-mindedness to thrive. You aren't with them, are you?


i was talking about ILLEGAL immigrants

i'm not in the klan & i'm not a racist

Real Joe said...

roderick said...
Why do you guys even acknowledge this annoying and lame troll Real Joe.

Cant you see this guy is just an obsessive dickhole.


fu** you liberal hippie

DCM in FL said...

also it seems to me that Palin urging "drill, baby, drill" is gonna hit the wrong notes at this time.

it was popular at the RNC - but since things are changing...

the gas shortages & price gouging in the SE & FL in the last few weeks reminds people of the underlying problem which is the BIG oil monopoly is playing us all.

Biden brought it up in the VP Debate not by accident, I would bet. My guess is that it was an intentional talking point to lure Palin into that trap [which she fell for].

DEM polling most likely is showing a growing backlash to unfetterred drilling, especially in key states like FL.

McCain wants to drill on our coasts - where are the refineries to process this oil ?

NIMBY & we do NOT want rigs off 'our' coasts !!!

plus, the word is just now getting out about the environmental nightmare in TX around Galveston [or what is left of Galveston rather].

destroyed rigs & refineries, pollution everywhere from IKE - are real nightmare that people here in FL do not want for our coasts !!!

GOPers - I beg of you to keep pushing 'DRILL, BABY, DRILL'.

that will guarantee that FL flips & flips by a big enough margin that you will not be able to steal our EV votes again this year through fraud.

markedman said...

real joe, foreigners DO care about us

our economy and policies effect people around the world

Don't you know that?

This election is being VERY closely watched all over the world as it will effect the entire world

cynthia.b.lee77 said...

An important data point for your analysis: Georgia's black turnout for the 2008 presidential primary was 29.7%.

markedman said...

i always fuck up affect and effect

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Can we change the abbreviation for African American voters (AA. I keep thinking that we are talking about all my friends in the program.

David said...

I used to enjoy your posts Joe. As McCain slips in the poll your racist, xenophobic views become apparent.

Illegal immigrants are not the reason the white population as a percentage is decreasing, using illegal immigrant as a modifier on your racist comments, do not make them any less racist.

Real Joe said...

Wolfson:

It's Over: Why Bill Ayers Won't Save John McCain

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_flack/archive/2008/10/05/it-s-over.aspx

eve said...

Chambliss is taking a nose dive in the polls.

Real Joe said...

fu** Wolfson

this is not over

28 days to go

Daniel said...

Can you please look at South Carolina? I did some rough estimates in my head, and the Senate seat is actually a lot more interesting, and I see South Carolina as less competitive then Georgia, but maybe within a few points?

Daniel said...

Can you please look at South Carolina? I did some rough estimates in my head, and the Senate seat is actually a lot more interesting, and I see South Carolina as less competitive then Georgia, but maybe within a few points?

Daniel said...

Can you please look at South Carolina? I did some rough estimates in my head, and the Senate seat is actually a lot more interesting, and I see South Carolina as less competitive then Georgia, but maybe within a few points?

Daniel said...

Can you please look at South Carolina? I did some rough estimates in my head, and the Senate seat is actually a lot more interesting, and I see South Carolina as less competitive then Georgia, but maybe within a few points?

Daniel said...

Can you please look at South Carolina? I did some rough estimates in my head, and the Senate seat is actually a lot more interesting, and I see South Carolina as less competitive then Georgia, but maybe within a few points?

niedda said...

I have been saying since very early this morning that the stock market is heading to another crash today, following the world markets.

This should keep focus on the economy and not peripherals that mccain's camp wants us to distract with.

Real Joe said...

david said...
I used to enjoy your posts Joe. As McCain slips in the poll your racist, xenophobic views become apparent.

Illegal immigrants are not the reason the white population as a percentage is decreasing, using illegal immigrant as a modifier on your racist comments, do not make them any less racist.

David

i'm not a racist

what are you smoking ?

iayork said...

Nate has posted again and again about how the BRADLEY EFFECT NO LONGER EXISTS IN ANY IMPORTANT WAY.

I don't think that's quite true. Nate has cited studies that say the Bradley effect either does not exist any longer, or is countered by a reverse Bradley effect, as suggested in this comment:

In fact, it may be more realistic that there is a 'reverse' effect (however small).

But in this context, that's double-counting. Here the argument is that Blacks are disproportionately likely to vote Obama. If you then say that Blacks are disproportionately likely to vote Obama because of a reverse Bradley, you're counting that effect twice. So if there is a true Bradley effect (and if it's present anywhere, surely Georgia is likely place for it) you can't use this to discount the anti-Obama effect.

So the question is, Is there a Bradley effect in Georgia, not whether it can be discounted by a reverse Bradley. And I don't think Nate's cites can rule that out, though they do suggest that any Bradley effect is relatively small.

assmole said...

That's four times we have to look at south carolina?

DCM in FL said...

Nick said...

"My prediction on the Fox/Rasmussen polls."

why are you so conservative ? RR national tracker is growing wider by the day. Since RR has it 52 - 44 today which shows upward movement for Obama then Scottie R can hardly pull back in the 4 battleground polls or he will look foolish...

as a base for comparison, add +4 Obama to each of your state projections IMHO

MO= tied
OH= O+4
FL= O+3
VA= O+6

I can hardly wait !!!

another GREAT day of polls so far for Obama - even the Battleground Tracker has moved him up to a solid lead @ +7 & 50% [wow]

Hotline is now the low-end of the range at 6% lead for Obama with R2000 at 12% so the consensus is in the range between those #'s...

assmole said...

Oops, five.

assmole said...

dcm/anyone : know anything about the 'democracy corps' polls they list on rcp? are they at all credible?

David said...

Joe,

Your comments say otherwise.

Voice of the Midwest said...

If the Dow is under 10,000 and a good chunk of Americans have received and digested their quarterly 401K statement, then McCain will have a difficult time getting past 45% nationally and in just about every battleground state.

Roderick said...

Real Joe said...

fu** you liberal hippie


once again, you are not only incredibily stupid, but incredibly wrong.

I am pro gun, pro life, and anti gay marriage/equal legal treatment.

Antmatic said...

I like the USA Today / Gallup poll showing Obama winning 18-29 year olds 61-32.

Also, party ID with this age bracket is 40-D, 21-R.

Like the GW / Battleground fiasco last week showed, party weighting and age weighting are closely related. You get the correct number of Democrats in your poll sample, and your age weightings become more accurate, and vice versa.

GOP is facing some structural challenges that will hurt them for years to come...

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Don't forget guys n gals, the full Keating documentary will be up in 17 minutes HERE .

ialex said...

Mishaps mark John McCain's record as naval aviator

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aviator6-2008oct06,0,876358,full.story>M

Finbarr said...

Cugel - I think you're spot on and have hit the nail on the head there. The "when you take away the cheering crowds" line that the GOP is peddling most definitely does have nasty racial overtones. I hope it galvanises the minority vote and backfires for them.

David said...

While the rise of Obama gives hope that America can crawl out of the sewer, current events have shown Americans in a bad light.

Now, Americans want answers and substance. When things are good they enjoy mindless negative campaigning over substance. When they allow fear to rule their lives(see 2001-2005), they don't mind negativity or totalitarianism.

If we can collectively demand substance over hate always, we would have fewer bad times to deal with.

If Obama rights the ship how long before America slips back into its bad habits, which will allow another Bush to rise to power, starting this insane cycle over again?

DCM in FL said...

ASSMOLE

D Corps is not a rated pollster by Nate/538 & as I recall he does not consider their polls since they are id as a DEM pollster.

but throughout the entire cycle of this campaign, it seems their poll 'releases' have shown a GOP 'house effect' or a smaller DEM lead than in other polls.

seems odd, but it must be in selected releases or else their model has small party ID weighting or something.

anecdotally, myself I have been discounting them as one of the low-end outliers whenever encountered.

but that would explain why RCP includes an identified DEM pollster & not use R2000. supports Nate's 'flaming' of RCP last week for playing 'arbitrary' games with their poll of polls.

why include DEM Corps & exclude R2000 [non-partisan] ? hhhhmmmm

markedman said...

real joe doesn't want me to have the same tax breaks he does or equal treatment

:(

Real Joe said...

negative campaigning works

this is not over

28 days to go

Daniel said...

Dow is down over 400, NASDAQ down another 100...both now well below the levels they stood at the day George Bush took office in Jan 2001.

People are hurting, they are losing their jobs, their retirement funds are drying up, the unemployed can not afford health insurance, we are dumping $10 Billion into Iraq every month even as the homeland is in a deep recession and the McCain campaign actually comes out over the weekend and says it needs to turn the page on the economy.

So Palin starts in with the Ayers stuff, Rezko is soon to follow....do they really think the Soap Opera stuff is going to work this election? I think the country has had enough of folksy Joe Six Pack politicians to last them a lifetime.

I seriously believe the McCain campaign 'jumped the shark' when McCain went on 'the View' about 4 weeks ago and just got hammered by a bunch of tv personalities over his 'lipstick on a pig' horeshit. He looked woefully weak in his defense of his campaign's tactics -- and if Joy Behar can bring you down imagine what Putin can do.

Eric said...

John McCain has never been good at anything he tried.

#1 He finished about 580th out of 584 in his class. Not necessary to finish near the top, but this kind of placement makes GW Bush look good.
#2 Got in the Naval Academy in the first place because his father and grandfather were famous Admirals.
#3 Got shot down as a pilot in Vietnam.
#4 Moved to Arizona to run for the House and after cheating on his first wife with Cindy, he used Cindy's beer money and Charles Keating influence combined with a sob story about being a POW to get elected to the House
#5 People say he appeals to independents because neither Republicans or Democrats like him
#6 He got whooped by Bush/Rove and company in 2000 and decided if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, sold out all his principles!
#7 After having his top 5-10 choices denied by his party, he drew a name out of a hat to be his VP, the most underqualified person ever to be put up for the office
#8 Has no accomplishments of record that he earned
#9 None of his supporters can give reason to vote for him

He's a less accomplished, more belligerent Bob Dole.

Roderick said...

David, i think the fact that Barack Hussein Obama is now the frontrunner for the office of president of the united states, and defeated hillary clinton in the primaries shows that this election is a major transformative landmark in the United States. These younger "informed" voters who are going to put Obama over the top in this election, are going to be voting again next time, and the next time.

With that, i think the days of just voting party lines despite the candidate and pure identity politics are comming to an end.

While I cant say there will be another Bush in the near future, I dont think another Bush will get to serve TWO terms before getting thrown on his ass

Voice of the Midwest said...

i was talking about ILLEGAL immigrants (Real Joe)

You and I both are products of millions of poorly processed, if not illegal, immigrants.

Herein lies another cunundrum for Republicans: the schism in their party over immigration (illegal or not). You have economic conservatives who own corporate farms, meat processing plants, and construction companies who do not mind the cheap labor. Then, you have cultural conservatives who want them all out of the country no matter the cost to the government they do not believe in.

Thus is why immigration is a losing issue for Republicans. You cannot both turn a blind eye to the issue for economic gain and also demand all of them be sent back to their countries of origin.

As we have always found out, the dollar bill wins out.

TBender said...

Forget about what Ike did to Texas. Anyone remember what happened with Katrina/Rita? Oil rigs went missing. Not damaged, but completely gone.

And considering Florida has three exposed coasts that tend to get hit more often than the Texas/Louisiana coast...

Real Joe said...

markedman said...
real joe doesn't want me to have the same tax breaks he does or equal treatment

:(


Support McCain

you will get a tax cut

Jackie said...

J.D., to expand on your comments on Christians voting for McCain (actually to take it in a different religious direction), I live in Georgia and I have been told by my Southern Baptist friends that Southern Baptists really cannot tolerate Pentecostals (as an agnostic, who am I to know such things?), and once the lovely Southern Baptists in Georgia find out Sarah Palin is a Pentecost, they might not show up at the polls at all.

It's the speaking in tongues and the absolute wignuttery of one Christian denomination as seen by the member of a more modest denomination, I suppose. The nuances are lost on a non-believer like myself, but they seem genuine to those in the know.

I'm driving people to the polls here in GA on election day - wish us luck!


A small, impromptu haiku:

If Georgia goes blue
I agree with all of you:
McPalin boo hoo.

Nicholas said...

Research 2000 has Obama down 50-43 in Georgia. That's in between the -6 by Insider Advantage and -8 by SurveyUSA.

So, if there's a huge surge of AA voters, along with other minorities and youth, then Georgia could definitely be possible.

Finch said...

If Obama rights the ship how long before America slips back into its bad habits, which will allow another Bush to rise to power, starting this insane cycle over again?

David, you raise an important point. At the end of the day, Americans have only ourselves to blame - for the mortgage crisis, the credit crunch, the living outside our means and incessant borrowing, the foreign policy blunders - all of it.

The eternal liberal fear is that - what if people really aren't good enough to ever collectively end these crises? And the eternal conservative conviction, philosophically speaking, is that people and institutions are in fact not up to the task. Hence the need to stand athwart history etc etc.

It's for these reasons that I'm a liberal who nevertheless empathizes quite a bit with true conservatives.

TBender said...

Daniel: And now Palin says Wright should be in play, contradicting McCain. Yet another case of wondering how much input Palin has in the campaign.

Christopher said...

Georgia only folds in a MASSIVE electoral landslide. But still, if it's enough to get Chambliss out of offive -- it will all be worth it.

David said...

"Support McCain

you will get a tax cut"

Despite everything that McCain has said, you think everyone will get a tax cut?

Wow!

Darío said...

Zogby:

Obama 48-44.

Eric said...

This is true, the fact that Plin is a Pentecostal is far scarier than Mitt romney being a Mormon or Joe Lieberman being Jewish. Race, Religion shouldn't matter. The Republicans are the ones that like to divide and conquer based on things that don't matter and they claim it points to content of character when really it simply points to different vs same. All that being said, I've heard from a number of folks who would have no problem voting for a Mormon, or a Jew, Or an African-American, but the whole Pentecostal thing freaks them out.

David said...

"Daniel: And now Palin says Wright should be in play, contradicting McCain. Yet another case of wondering how much input Palin has in the campaign."

If that is true, than Palin is more stupid then she has let on.

Let's show Joe Sixpack her pastor!

Let's call out her husband for his ties to a secessionist group!

It is pretty funny, she is more or less just talking to the wind these days.

Karthik said...

Bob Barr will have a really interesting affect on this face. What about the new R2K poll that shows Chambliss running for his political life?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/6/1152/98507/228/618110

David said...

"I've heard from a number of folks who would have no problem voting for a Mormon, or a Jew, Or an African-American, but the whole Pentecostal thing freaks them out."

That is because Jews and Mormons are decent and reasonable people.

Pentecostals are the very definition of extremists.

TBender said...

Politico's Martin blog about Palin & Wright

OTF said...

Morning Call PA tracker:

Obama 49
McCain 38

Obama+11

Daniel said...

tbender: Yes, you are correct, Palin will now be using Wright in her stump speeches. Amazingly, there is video out of her pastor in Alaska, exorcising demons from Palin -- I kid you not, Countdown ran the video a week or so ago. And Palin has ties to the Alaska Independence Party (you know, the people who want Alaska to cecede from the USA), she is about to be reprimanded by the state of Alaska for pulling strings to get that police chief fired....add in McCain's Keating 5 history and you've got a bunch of hypocrites at the top of the GOP ticket.

America is just totally done with this character destruction crap -- they want a president that actually understands the economic pitfalls we face as a country and a president that can at least attempt to lead us out.

Troy said...

Do Nate and Sean get more advertising money if we click on the McCain banner ads? Maybe McCain will think we really love him and spend more of his campaign money advertising here!

Voice of the Midwest said...

"negative campaigning works" (Real Joe)

It is not negative if it is a fact.

The Keating Five association for John McCain was direct and a documented fact. To say a Barack Obama was tied to "terrorists" because he had served on a board with a guy who 25 years earlier was ACQUITTED for such acts as a member of the Weather Underground is a desperate stretch, a lie, and negative.

McCain should know that negative is not working after throwing the Rezko stuff out there and LOSING in the polls over the past few weeks.

It is the economy, stupid. It is the 800 pound gorilla in the McCain campaign room and trying to change that issue on a day where the Dow is down 450 points is pissing in the wind.

McCain will go negative, but it hasn't worked yet. If there was something that could stick, they would have been pounding it already. But there isn't. The next step is to lie for McCain and he will go there: power is more important to Republicans than principle.

This is coming from a one-time Republican, too.

TBender said...

"Those in glass houses..."

Nicholas said...

Is it me, or is the report in the WSJ that McCain wants to have cuts to Medicare and Medicaid a really fucking big deal, election-wise? Can McCain really reclaim Florida once this is known? And doesn't this fit right into the wheelhouse of the Obama's recent emphasis on health care?

assmole said...

Thanks, dcm. I'm still intrigued by their numbers - are all pollsters including Barr and Nader in their choices?

Finch said...

Nicholas - Not just you. That's a HUGE f'in deal in FL. Depends on how deep it penetrates, but if it sinks in it will make it very hard for McCain to hold on to FL.

OTF said...

Nicholas,

The answer to all your questions is yes. Hopefully it comes up in the debate tomorrow and Obama strts hammering McCain not only on the economy front, but the healthcare front. A multi front war.

Real Joe said...

troy said...
Do Nate and Sean get more advertising money if we click on the McCain banner ads? Maybe McCain will think we really love him and spend more of his campaign money advertising here!


please don't click

we are running out of money

Finch said...

Would that be like a reverse Google bomb?

ialex said...

ugh! Palin was just on CNN spouting bs. I cannot stand that snarky cunt.

assmole said...

Negative attacks on Obama now could knock a few points off his vote into Barr/ Nader's but it won't add to McCain- he's toast.

Real Joe said...

ialex said...
ugh! Palin was just on CNN spouting bs. I cannot stand that snarky cunt.


that's Vice President Sarah Palin

get used to it

OTF said...

McCain isn't running out of money. The campaign finance laws are full of loopholes. Who really thinks that the RNC and McCain aren't coordinating on spending above the 19 million allowed. It is impossible to prove if you do unless someone internal blows the whistle.

TBender said...

Let her talk. The more she talks, the more undecideds/independent move toward Obama.

Real Joe said...

finch said...
Would that be like a reverse Google bomb?


please don't click :-(

Eric said...

McCain knows the only reasonable possibility he has at this point is to count on riling up as much fear of the Black man as possible and hope it's enough. It's lame, but it's his only option. I don't really blame him, but I hope that Palin's career goes down in flames after this. Either that or maybe she can run for Prez in 2012, win the Pub nomination, and be a gift that keeps on giving as a joke with no chance that gives an automatic win to the Dems in 2012

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"that's Vice President Sarah Palin

get used to it"

Sorry, we don't share your rich fantasy life, you spamming moron.

OTF said...

Palin is a show piece not even in tune on the campaign. They pull out of MI and she doesn't know about it till the press tells her.

Eric said...

PAlin is symbolic of everything worng with the current GOP. The party will implode and resurrect as a viable party, focused much more on fiscal conservatism and much less on social issues in about 30-40 years. In the meantime, the Dems can fix this mess. This is my vision.

Real Joe said...

i'm not a big fan of Sarah

but she's only what we got

assmole said...

eric: would Palin be able to defeat Jindal in 2012? Is Romney finished?

Real Joe said...

Jindal

give me a break

assmole said...

Give who a break?

RWD said...

Palin/Jindal 2012

Obama wins re-election in 45-state landslide...

Finch said...

I really don't think the GOP is ready to elect a non-white nominee.

Marlon said...

He Ffoont.

I think what Nate is basically trying to say about the new registrations (or in this case mass registratiosn), is that these new voters are not registering to sit out the vote (like the average new registrant). Their registering now to vote for Obama; so why wouldn't they?

EmonOkari said...

That is because Jews and Mormons are decent and reasonable people.

Pentecostals are the very definition of extremists.


I come from a 3rd generation Pentecostal family (father and grandfather both pastors). I would say their hearts are in the 'right place'. Their views, however, are quite extreme (and even hateful). When you take a completely literal viewpoint to EVERYTHING biblical, it creates some narrow-mindedness that refuses to take anything different at face value.

My own Pentecostal family's viewpoints that get pounded into me nearly every day:
1) A Vote For Obama Is Sin And Must Be Repented
2) A Vote For McCain Is Mandated By God
3) We Have No Free Will As Christians, We Surrendered That To Christ, And Therefore Must Vote According To How Christ Instructs Us To Vote (Which Somehow Is Republican)
4) Tolerance Of Homosexuality And Abortion Has Brought God's Judgement And Wrath Against America.
5) Our Economic Problems Are Due To Said Tolerance Of Homosexuality And Abortion. Elimination Of Both Will Bring Back God's Blessing And Fix The Economy.
6) Since Abortion Is Murder, All Women/Doctors Who Participated In Such Should Be Prosecuted. Since Murder Has No Statute Of Limitations, Past 'Murders' Should Also Be Prosecuted. Any Family Member, Friend, Husband/Boyfriend Who Didn't Stand Up Against The Abortion Is An Accomplice To Murder, And Should Be Prosecuted.

OTF said...

Palin is having her 15 minutes of fame. Anyone who thinks she would win the nomination in primaries is delusional. She has no understanding of issues beyond programmed catch phrases. Her fellow RepubliCons would shred her in the nomination debates.

Thomas said...

Perhaps Palin is intentionally saying those things to get that reaction out of Obama.

better to get these untowards things out of the way now when her campaign has little shot at winning than in 2012 when she will be the frontrunner for the Rep Nomination

assmole said...

finch: the same kind of comment has been made about America -as a whole- electing Obama.

Finch said...

The Keating documentary is now live, although the site traffic is predictably slowing things up.

TBender said...

Palin should focus on the available AK Senate seat in 2012.

That would give her the chance to learn the difference between AK politics and US politics.

moondancer said...

assmole@11:18

Jindal though a wackjob creationist, graduated from Brown. That eliminates his chances with the GOP. If he was an illiterate dropout, the wheels would be greased..

Eric said...

You guys might be overestimating the RepubliCON party, but I'd tend to agree. She's unlikely to get the nomination. She'd flame out in a long battle to win it. I'd just hope she would so the Dems could have the easiest path possible.

J said...

McCain's campaign has been trying to "get a rise out of Obama" since the beginning. It won't work. A friend of mine who doesn't follow politics all that closely but is an Obama voter called me up after the sex education ads were aired and she was crying - literally - because she was terrified that Obama would "lose it" after witnessing the ads. Of course he didn't. He's smarter than that. So much smarter than that.

I fell a little bit more in love with Obama after a comment he made about the attack ads early on. It may have been after the sex ed ads, it was earlier in the campaign. He said "I don't care what they say about me, but I love this country too much to let them use smear campaigns and hate to appeal to Americans." It was something like that.

A totally above-the-fray "we are ALL better than that" remark. It was classy.

OTF said...

SurveyUSA NH:
Obama +13

Obama 53
McCain 40

3 polls in a row double digits in NH for Obama!

Kelly said...

Suffolk U. has Obama +12 in VA (51-39)

Definitely an outlier, but I think it puts to rest any concerns that Obama's lead in VA is not real.

Darío said...

RCP no includes the Zogby poll.

PA John said...

PA Morning call daily tracker:
Obama 49
McCain 38
(O+11)

SUSA New Hampshire:
Obama 53
McCain 40

Suffolk VA:
Obama 51
McCain 39

Darío said...

The Granite State.

Thomas said...

Romney wins the nomination in 2012

Jindal doesnt run. if BO is vulnerable then its because he didnt fix the problem, and Jindal is smart enough to realize that a 41 year old novice isnt going to get elected to replace a 51 year old novice.

Palin and Huckabee split the primary vote along geographic lines with Palin taking the west and huck the south - but Romney carries the populous northeastern quadrant - who are more small govt conservatives than social conservatives.

Plus again - if Obama is vulnerable then an economy guy like Romney has the upper hand.

If Obama isnt vulnerable then it doesnt matter - maybe Palin wins in that case, but then I would guess that Obama would ditch Biden and get Hillary or another woman in there, since she would be more viable in 2016 than Biden.

Nicholas said...

Obama +11 in PA
Obama +12 in Virginia
Obama +13 in New Hampshire

Good times.

Eric said...

So it seems Obama has 264 electoral votes locked down. The question becomes which of these is his tipping point? The first state on the list that goes Obama is the state that gets him there. Here are the choices. The slightly uncomfortable thing is I'm not sure if Obama is ahead in any of these by more than his national lead, meaning if this thing closes to a virtual tie, where's the tipping point?. Here's the list in approximate order of likelihood to win:

Colorado
Virginia
Nevada
Ohio
Florida
North Carolina
Indiana
Missouri

There's a good reason to choose any of the first 7 as most likely to tip IMO, but I'm not sure which he has the best chance in.

OTF said...

Thomas,

Romney's economic credentials are overblown. He made his money by taking over companies, cutting domestic jobs in many cases and shipping things overseas. That's not going to play in many areas of the country. He't the guy that liad you off or closed your plant.

Nicholas said...

SurveyUSA also has Obama +10 in Virginia (Oct. 4-5).

Holy crap.

Eric said...

Oh SHIT!!!!


+10 and +12 in Virginia!!!

Holy CRAP! Game OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kelly said...

Okay, now SurveryUSA says Obama +10 in VA to go with Suffolk's +12. That's either 2 outliers or Obama's kicking some ass in the Old Dominion.

Eric said...

Virginia is already voting!!!!


This thing s over

277 is the least Obama will end up with!

Kerry states + Iowa + New Mexico + Virginia

Darío said...

Go Romney!.
Palin Go....home.

Chi said...

otf, I'm with ya. Sarah is living out her 15 minutes of fame. If McCain loses (and by God, he should), she's going to go back to Alaska never to be heard from again. I doubt she'd even win re-election because Alaskans are seeing her in a different light now.

OTF said...

Look at the internals of the polls and then compare to the last poll in the states. Obama is running even among 50+ year olds. As they see their 401K's get hit they seem to be turning towards Obama. It's all about the economy!

Eric said...

General vs Primaries

Beginning of the end in Primaries for Hillary:

#1 South Carolina, Ted's endorsement, Bill's Jesse reference = DNC COnvention/ Palin pick

Sign the end was coming, just a matter of time

#2 Super Tuesday = "The fundamentals of our economy our strong"

The end of the end

#3 North Carolina by 15 for Obama/Indiana virtual tie = Suffolk and SUSa polls from VIRGINIA show Obama up 10 and 12 after ealry voting has started there, putting Obama over the top in states with leads way outside the margin of error!


GAME OVER!!!!

realistxxx said...

Wow on the Ras tracker and the PA, VA and NH numbers.

NM at O+5 ain't nothing to sneeze at either.

Today may turn out to be the single best polling day for Obama this cycle and he's had some pretty amazing ones lately as is.

Maybe McCain will just walk over and punch him during tomorrow's townhall. Does he anything else left?

John Nail said...

Nate, I was out registering folks on Sat. and we had volunteers galore and we were near a mall and transit station - not even a heavily black area.

We will have a huge GOTV effort here if the campaign wants it or a lot of us will got to FL or NC to help if we are out of reach...

The volunteer work here that the paid staff set up all summer is working like crazy. There are still 30-50 staff in town and lots of offices but about 125 were sent to other states.

Bill Clinton was here last week for a fundraiser w/ Hank Aaron.

If we could get Barack to spend a day here I think we could get it done...

Eric said...

One thing to note looking at the internals of VA polls, it seems they interviewed more Dems overall. The breakdown in virgnia is about even right?

Finch said...

Assmole: the difference to me is that when you talk about GOP voters you're talking about only a minority segment of American voters - specifically, the segment that includes many more of those who would have trouble voting for a nonwhite. The GOP is not a true microcosm of America, just like the Dems are not.

OTF said...

McCain's internals must have been showing bad results for him and thus starting to throw the kitchen sink starting this weekend. After the polls released thus far today this is going to get really nasty. Can't wait to see Ras polls CO, FL, MO, OH, VA at 6pm.

mirrormirror said...

"Someone recently wrote theres no reason why the Republican party COULDN'T become something similar to the Tory's in Britain"

Err .... the Tories have been out of power for 11 years now and their next chance might not be for another 2 years. Not a place to look for inspiration.


As a Brit who's recently moved to Seattle, thanks first of all for your fascinating site which has been an invaluable guide to this incredible election. I've been wondering for some time whether the AA vote hasn't been massively understated in the polls if they're using previous demographic data.

Anyway I wanted to comment on the above. The Conservative party in the UK IS the natural party of the metropolitan and rural middle class in England.

The Labour party only got in eleven years ago by calling itself 'New Labour', promising fiscal responsibility, ditching previous socialist policies and shoring up its vote in the industrial heartlands of the North of England and subsidised and disproportionately enfranchised Scotland (which has many more MPs than say, London, despite having a smaller population). It is no coincidence that both Blair and Brown are Scots.

Looking at opinion polls over there, Labour is going to get SPANKED when it finally calls an election.

The HUGE difference between the English Conservatives and the US Republicans is that there is NO religious right in the UK (we shipped them over to you guys a few centuries ago). Most people are extremely apathetic on religion, turning up once or twice a year at church to attend a wedding or sing carols at Christmas.

Social conservatism is just NOT an election issue (I'd never even heard the term until I got here). The battles for abortion within limits and gay marriage have been won. I DO NOT KNOW nor care where any politician in the UK stands on abortion. Their views are private to them and unlikely to split along party lines. It's about as likely to be discussed in a UK election as euthanasia and be just as relevant to the outcome.

I would consider myself to be fiscally conservative but extremely socially libertarian (for me both areas are about the freedom of the individual and sit naturally together) and as such would have no trouble voting for the Conservative party in the UK. However wild horses could not make me vote Republican in the US.

Nicholas said...

Obama hits 90% today in Nate's model.

John Nail said...

bm - GA actually was leading the country in its registration targets. We had f/t staff here from mid May on, a few stayed with me and they and the Organizing interns (250 of them or so) did a great job getting the volunteers organized and then 3 weeks ago or so moved about 100 elsewhere but as my prior post showed the volunteer network - w/ a little help from the local HQ are doing yeoman's work...

mirrormirror said...

Oh and I also wonder what effect on turnout Obama's amazing funding campaign might have? If you've actually DONATED to a political party won't that make you more likely to make sure it also gets your vote?

Kelly said...

eric,

Virginia doesn't allow registration by party, so any party break-down in polls is guess work.

markymark said...

I think a landslide might consign Palin to political history. A narrow result and she could be back.

And with Ras ticking up another point for Obama, this is beginning to look like it might be a landslide.

Nicholas said...

If Obama is actually up ~10 in Virgina, then he's winning North Carolina, and close in South Carolina and Georgia, right?

Real Joe said...

OMFG

:-(

realistxxx said...

Nicholas said...
Obama hits 90% today in Nate's model.

----------

I doubt it. The model is pretty resistant to big changes now. If things settle in like this and as we move closer to the election, the model will keep increasing Obama's win% by fractions of a percent.

bmcworldcitizen said...

@mirrormirror However wild horses could not make me vote Republican in the US.


I'm an Irishman living in the (near) socialist Utopia of Sweden:-) Barack Obama is frankly a little too right wing for my tastes. I do enjoy a good laugh at the idea that he is a marxist.

I imagine you and I are politically quite far apart, yet I similarly find the republicans quite repellent. There is nothing like them, outside of the near-fascist hyper nationalist parties of Europe, and in the context of the EU these have become increasingly absurd and irrelevant. I don't think a typical republican would get 5% of the vote anywhere in the EU, except maybe Austria.

Nicholas said...

I doubt it. The model is pretty resistant to big changes now. If things settle in like this and as we move closer to the election, the model will keep increasing Obama's win% by fractions of a percent.

Probably. It did jump about 3 points yesterday though.

Eric said...

God call Kelly. I just figured that out. The whole no VOter ID by party in Virginia is the big reason the polls are so all over the place there. Those polls have to be taken with a grain of salt somewhat. That being said 10 and 12 points is nothing to sneeze at. Voting already started there. I think this is good confirmation of what we've been looking for. A state way outside the MOE that provides a tipping point for OBama

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

OK people, Palin is getting people fired up enough to have them shout

KILL HIM!

referring to Barack Obama.

Someone, anyone with any control, needs to stop this psychopath Palin lady, seriously.

The link to the article is HERE .

PA John said...

Obama 50-42 in Gallup.

Brennan said...

We should fear that we don't live in a democracy any longer. The cyber security with current voting machines is in the bronze age and paid GOP computer hackers alter results going from polling stations to district offices which total the results. Also, GOP members in office are purging voters in VA, MO, and LA. Please see the videos and sites below, then call the Obama campaign to express your concern and voice your opinion (especially if you are a contributor like I am) and tell them you want something done about it.

Obama campaign number is 1-866-675-2008 and press option 6 to speak to a volunteer. They are answering the phone 7 days a week.

>>>

How the next election will be stolen:
http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/2008/09/spoonamore-reveals-plan-to-steal-next.html

>>>

We need to take action:
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/

>>>

The voter purging in Virginia (and in general):
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voter_purges

>>>

It is our responsibility to take action. Call someone, write someone, pass this along, talk about it, etc. We can't just sit idle and read about these things that are happening in our country and be passive.

Please act somehow in whatever way you are comfortable with doing. I hope these sites and videos educate you on what is really going on with the GOP and that we need to do something... anything, except sit idly behind our keyboards.

Please act now.

markymark said...

I think a 5 point lead for Obama is on the cards for Nate quite soon. That strikes me as a big move. It really is looking increasingly bleak rioght now for McCain, thats not to say that there might not be another swing in this, but with markets tanking around the world today, there is no quick sign of a change in the issues as far as voters are concerned in this election. I kind of think that McCain is in the position where he should say fairly soon, that his best move is to preserve as much dignity as possible, put the gloves on and run the cleanest possible campaign possible. It might bring one or two voters back on side and will preserve his reputation to an extent.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Brennan,

Brad Blog is also a great site to keep track of GOP vote suppression efforts...cheers.

STepper said...

@iayork

Bradley Effect = lying to pollsters because of peer pressure and then voting against the AA candidate. (Other stuff, too. The other candidate is a douchebag and you're embarassed to say you'll vote for him.)

Reverse Bradley Effect = lying to pollsters because of peer pressure and then actually voting for the AA candidate. (In this case that's not too hard since the other candidate is turning into a douchebag.)

Chi said...

markymark, you're assuming that McCain is decent enough to think the way you're thinking. Unfortunately, he's not.

bmcworldcitizen said...

that keating video is soaring to the top of the youtube ratings.

McCain barely knows it exists, won't he be surprised when it flattens him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g72BuIvMbWY&eurl=http://www.keatingeconomics.com/

markymark said...

Chi,

Oh I wasn't saying that is what I would expect McCain to do. But I think the point of no return is fast approaching and I think that going negative may even be a waste of time, and is going to build up a hold lot of Democratic resentment on the hill, so he will almost be stuck in a little caucus all of his own. (maybe he could get Lieberman to join him.)

lamh3176 said...

Here's the thing, about a month or so ago, I commented on how nationally syndicated Urban radio host and urban radio stations were keeping African American and other Urban radio listeners (Hispanics, younger whites, etc) up on voter registration, voter surpression and GOTV. Many people (mostly non-minorities) pooh-poohed it. Well it's in states where most of the voting population is centralized in the large urban cities like Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and places in the South where if African Americans may be a large but still minority portion of the electorate, where having a larger turnout than ever before, could be a difference between Obama winning a state, or just losing a state by a smaller margin.

People should really not underestimate that.

Brennan said...

We should fear that we don't live in a democracy any longer. The cyber security with current voting machines is in the bronze age and paid GOP computer hackers alter results going from polling stations to district offices which total the results. Also, GOP members in office are purging voters in VA, MO, and LA. Please see the videos and sites below, then call the Obama campaign to express your concern and voice your opinion (especially if you are a contributor like I am) and tell them you want something done about it.

Obama campaign number is 1-866-675-2008 and press option 6 to speak to a volunteer. They are answering the phone 7 days a week.

How the next election will be stolen:
http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/2008/09/spoonamore-reveals-plan-to-steal-next.html

We need to take action:
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/

The voter purging in Virginia (and in general):
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voter_purges

It is our responsibility to take action. Call someone, write someone, pass this along, talk about it, etc. We can't just sit idle and read about these things that are happening in our country and be passive.

Brennan said...

test

DCM in FL said...

Gallup - +8:

summary

"Looked at broadly, Obama's percent of the vote has been within a very narrow range of 48% to 50% over the last ten days, and McCain's has been within an equally narrow range of 42% of 44% over the same time period. These results suggest that aside from normal sampling error, the underlying dynamics of the race have become quite stable, and underscore the degree to which there has been little meaningful change in the race in well over a week.

The election has entered its final month, with the two remaining major campaign events being Tuesday night's presidential debate in Nashville, and the final presidential debate on Oct. 15 at Hofstra University.

Early voting is now open in many states, meaning that for some voters, the election is already over. -- Frank Newport"

amen to that !!!

layneandjulie said...

I'm so glad to see this entry! I check this site every day, watching especially to see if there are any indication of what I think might be the "Georgia Surprise" coming our way. Perhaps as a volunteer here in Atlanta I have a skewed view of the whole state, but the response here in the city has been incredible. I was so impressed this weekend with the organization and mobilization for Final Weekend Registration, and everywhere we went we received affirmation. Now, to be a realist, I know there are several more rural communities outside the city that have some very vehemenant opponents to Obama, but I also know folks here (like my father-in-law) who have voted Republican their entire lives and intend to cast for Obama in this election. I know the campaign repositioned some paid staffers from GA not long ago, but the volunteer effort here is so energized I think the momentum continues progressing in Obama's direction here. I am holding out hope and belief that a Blue GA is possible!

haribelafonte said...

If people are disgusted enough with the Republican Party and the bailout that they give Bob Barr more than 5% of Georgia's vote, Obama will come close to carrying the state through his GOTV effort. The best gift of the night would be going to bed with GA too close to call.

Herunar said...

A lot of people seem to be asking whether increased registration will actually lead to an equal increase in turnout percentage or number of votes. That should be pretty obvious. If you aren't going to vote, what did you register for? And newly registered voters tend to be apolitical, which is why they weren't registered in the first place. Already registered voters are likely to have an enthusiasm far larger than newly registered voters, and their turnout percentage is very likely to increase more than the overall percentage increase in registration.