10.06.2008

In Georgia, Small Improvements in Black Voter Participation May Make Big Difference

Perhaps the only happy consequence of the segregation era is that a number of Southern states like Georgia are required by the Voting Rights Act to keep statistics on registration and turnout by the race of the voter. Those statistics suggest that black voter registration is up materially from 2004.

Here are the numbers. In November 2004, black voters represented 27.4 percent of Georgia's active registered voter pool. As of October 1st, that figure has increased to 29.0 percent.

Now, that might not seem like all that big a difference. But suppose that the black vote is split 95/5 between Obama and McCain, and the nonblack vote is split 30/70. (Obama probably will not win 30 percent of the white vote. But since Georgia also contains material numbers of Hispanic and Asian voters, winning 30 percent of the nonblack vote is probably reasonable).

In 2004, also according to statistics from the Georgia Secretary of State, black voters made up 25.4 percent of election day turnout (this means that they participated at slightly lower rates than white voters). Applying those 95/5 and 30/70 voter splits to the 25.4 percent figure would work out to a 7.0-point win for John McCain, about where polls seem to have Georgia now.

Now suppose that black and nonblack voters each turn out at the same rates as they did in 2004, but that we account for the increase in black registration. According to our math, John McCain's 7.0-point lead is now cut to 4.9 points.

But that is probably too conservative an assumption. Newly-registered voters -- and nearly half of Georgia's newly-registered voters are black -- turn out at higher rates than previously registered voters. In addition, one would assume that the opportunity to vote for the first African-American nominee might be just a little bit of a motivating factor for black voters. Suppose that African-Americans represent 29.0 percent of Georgia's turnout, matching their share of active registrations. Using the splits we described above, McCain's lead is now cut to 2.3 points.

Even this, however, may be too conservative. For one thing, the registration window in Georgia is not yet over ... it concludes today. The statistics I cited above only reflected registrations through September 30. There is typically a surge of registrations in the final few days before the deadline. In 2004, Georgia's active voter rolls increased by about 150,000 persons in the first four days of October, before the registration deadline closed. That was more than they'd increased in the entire month of September.

So suppose that by tonight, black voters have increased to 30 percent of Georgia's registered voter pool. Plugging that 30 percent number in, McCain's advantage is a mere 1 point.

Think these numbers sound unreasonable? Early voting is underway in Georgia, and according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, black voters do not represent 30 percent of Georgia's early voter turnout. Instead, they represent almost 40 percent. Although early voting figures can be idiosyncratic , Barack Obama certainly seems to be having little trouble getting his vote out. Indeed, Barack Obama is winning Georgia right now.

A related question is whether the pollsters are underrepresenting the black vote in their turnout estimates in states like Georgia. I think they might be. In their past two surveys of Georgia, SurveyUSA pegged black voter turnout at 25-26 percent. This is a pretty safe assumption, since it exactly matches the Secretary of State's turnout estimate from 2004. But this isn't 2004. I would be surprised if black turnout wasn't at least 27-28 percent, and somewhere in the 29-31 percent range is entirely possible. If those numbers are achieved, Georgia is pretty close to being a toss-up. And if it is a toss-up for Barack Obama, it is probably also a toss-up for Jim Martin, who is attempting to unseat Saxby Chambliss from the Senate.

Georgia is not quite a tipping-point state. In order to win it, Barack Obama will have to have made at least some inroads with Southern whites, and if he's done so, that will mean that he's won states like Virginia and North Carolina and won't need Georgia's electoral votes. But I'd guess that it represents a more plausible pickup opportunity for Obama than states like West Virginia and Montana, which are nominally closer in the polling. And if these black voter registration numbers are replicated throughout the South, Elizabeth Dole, Saxby Chambliss and Roger Wicker could all face tough re-election battles, substantially increasing the Democrats' chances of winning 60 Senate seats.

417 comments

Sedi said...

This is the great question of this election: will the surge in registration among AAs, young voters, and the politically disenchanted translate into a big surge in actual participation (voting). If it does, nothing that McCain does or says from here on out is at all relevant. If it does not, then McCain has an outside chance at pulling off the upset. The initial numbers out of GA certainly look encouraging for Obama.

EmonOkari said...

I'm curious how much the National Popular Vote could relate to Georgia's State Vote. How much would Obama need to win the National Popular Vote by, to have a 'realistic' shot at flipping Georgia? 8 points? 10 points? 12 points or more?

Meg said...

One of my white friends living in Georgia has told me that despite being a lifelong Republican who has always voted straight-ticket Republican, she's voting for Barack Obama this year. The same goes for another white (male) friend of mine in Arkansas -- also someone who always had voted Republican in the past. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Obama is making significant headway among Southern Whites.

Can you just imagine Obama taking Georgia? That would be an incredible moment, indeed! :)

Roxanne said...

This is nice and everything, but the Bradley effect scares the hell out of me. Can we have statistics for this?

moondancer said...

I think we got a preview of how this will play out in the huge upsets in the special elections this year. Democrats swamped the traditional GOP candidates on their home turf.
Turnout and new registrations won those, expect more of the same.

wartank777 said...

If one more person mentions the Bradley effect, I think I might scream. Nate has posted again and again about how the BRADLEY EFFECT NO LONGER EXISTS IN ANY IMPORTANT WAY.

Charles Crook said...

If GA turns blue this year, I would expect that MS would as well. MS has a higher AA percentage of the population and its interesting Senate race.

But if either turns blue, it would be as part of an overwhelming Dem victory, involving VA, NC and even FL.

What would this mean to Nixon's Southern Strategy ( target Southern voters unhappy with the Democrats' Civil Rights Act ) even if FL is not considered a Southern state )?

Sedi said...

If turnout among AAs spikes in a similar way in VA and NC -- states in which Obama will undoubtedly get a higher percentage of the white vote than in GA -- then he has to be considered the favorite to win VA and probably also NC. I don't know VA and NC both have limited early voting systems that Obama can take advantage of with his superior organization and ground game. It really is a chance to post an early lead and put the pressure on McCain to either spend time and resources in the mid-Atlantic or risk losing one or both states.

lorisc said...

I have been volunteering with the Obama Campaign in SC for months now. Registration ended on Saturday with a huge surge in voter registrations. The campaign far exceeded their goal of new registrants.

Watching the news and reading the blogs can get a bit depressing at times. I am much less anxious when I volunteer for the campaign. When out among the African American voters it is clear that they will vote in numbers never seen before. They have always been a loyal Dem voting block, but they are engergized. They will not only vote, they will be sure their family and friends vote. The same is true of all Obama supporters I have met. I don't know if there is any polling model that can accurately measure what we will see in November. Despite the low road that the McCain Campaign will take, I am confident Obama will be our next president.

Bobby said...

I was just at the Obama rally in Asheville North Carolina yesterday; 28,000 people turned out to hear him! In North Carolina! I was impressed with the GOTV effort going on at the same time. As the crowd of 28,000 waited in line to get into the stadium where Obama would address the crowd, workers were all around ensuring people were registered to vote, making available registration forms and early voting forms and information. Workers also made sure that every single person registered their name and zip code before getting in. The GOTV effort on the Obama side is very impressive; the possibility of winning Georgia hints that a landslide is possible and perhaps even likely...

Sean said...

The better point is, if AA voter turnout is that high in Georgia, what must it be in other, similar states? If things are that well in what is considered a fairly safe Republican state, then the numbers in Virginia and North Carolina must also be equally stark.

Not to be crude, but demographically the Republican party is on its way to oblivion unless it finds someway to increase minority involvement and turnout. And I just don't see that happening as long as, voter wise, they believe themselves to be inextricably bound to white, social conservatives. Someone recently wrote theres no reason why the Republican party COULDN'T become something similar to the Tory's in Britain, by dropping social conservatives and refashioning themselves as a white-collar, professional urban party. But that would require a separation more dangerous and fraught with peril than any Siamese twin operation ever performed.

Frank Drackman said...

Talk about Unintended Consequences, one of the other aspects of the Voting Rights Act is the DOJ observing the polling places, making sure noone is forced to prove they can read. Unfortunately, they drive the same unmarked Crown Victorias that DEA and Georgia Probation officers love, which have the same effect on minorities, as Garlic on Vampires. Georgia votes for a Black Democrat when the Cubs win the World Series, around 2100 or so.

Sedi said...

Roxanne,
The preponderance of evidence suggests that if there ever was a Bradley Effect, it no longer seems to exist. Recent elections (post 2000) have shown no evidence of it, as black candidates have generally had results in line with their polling. Nate has posted on this topic: it is listed in the topic on the left hand side of the page in the section listed "Labels."

In general, it would be a good idea for new people posting questions to look at the "Labels" section to see if the topic that they are asking about has already been addressed in a previous post. Some of us 538 veterans can get a bit testy when people stop in and casually ask about the cell-phone effect or what would happen in the case of an EV tie. I try to have sympathy, but others can (semi-understandably) get snippy.

EmonOkari said...

Nate has posted again and again about how the BRADLEY EFFECT NO LONGER EXISTS IN ANY IMPORTANT WAY.

In fact, it may be more realistic that there is a 'reverse' effect (however small). Folks in Red-Red rural communities who do not openly admit their support for Obama, yet will go to the ballot and punch his name. I know 3 relatives in my own family who have admitted to me they will 'secretly' vote for Obama, but don't want to be disowned by the rest of our family (as I have been), or their local church (which, from the pulpit, is VERY biased in favor of Palin). I'm curious how many other rural conservative communities will have these types of voters...who don't want to support Obama 'publicly', out of fear of rebuke from friends/family.

Steve said...

"Someone recently wrote theres no reason why the Republican party COULDN'T become something similar to the Tory's in Britain"

Err .... the Tories have been out of power for 11 years now and their next chance might not be for another 2 years. Not a place to look for inspiration.

Andrew said...

Dude, don't get my hopes up.

J.D. said...

I'm always intrigued by your take on things, so I wish you would at some point bring up a point I find not only salient but extremely relevant. How can Evangelicals and other fundamentalist Christians justify supporting McCain, claiming that they are voting on Christian principles? John McCain committed multiple adultery on his wife before leaving her to marry a much richer woman so he'd have financial backing to run for President. How can people who claim to be good Christians support someone like him? I realize that many big time Republicans have done much similar things (Newt Gingrich comes to mind), but I remember reading many times about Republicans chortling over the stupidity of fundamentalist Christians. I just find it so odd that Republicans constantly claim to be "good Christians" while voting for people who violate their supposedly strict ethical standards and who patently despise them.

Achille said...

Nate, you linked to the 2007 data. Here's the correct data for October 2008: http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/voter%5Fregistration/SSVRZ193.pdf

cane said...

Nate, as always your demographic analysis is right and significant. With Georgia and even more so with North Carolina, a neglected factor is growth of Latino population. Still small as general percentage, but high enough to decide a close election. Look at the maps for Latinos from 1980 to current estimates in GA and NC. And keep in mind that Latinos are voting 65-70% Obama (probably 75% if you leave out Cubans).

http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/files/Internet_Hispanic_in_US_2006.pdf

Juris said...

Nate, one other element that you didn't mention is that mobilization tends to foster countermobilization. That early voting is so disproportionately among enthusiastic Obama voters is likely -- once it is publicized (follow the papers on this) -- to engender redoubled efforts by those on the McCain side. Whether it will all balance out, in terms of turnout from the supporters of both sides, remains to be seen of course.

histocrat said...

emonokari,

Generically, you can estimate the national popular vote needed for Obama to carry an individual state by adding the projected state-level victory margin for McCain to the projected national-level victory margin for Obama. Obama is at +4.5% nationally and -6.6% in GA, so the model says he'd need to be +11.1%, which would mean about 55%, nationally to have a shot at GA.

Of course, if AA turnout is extremely high in ways the polls aren't measuring, that would have a disproportionate effect on southern states, so a better estimate would be lower.

Nicholas said...

I'm curious to see what effect Bob Barr will have on the race. Nationwide he doesn't look like much of a factor, but he is a fairly popular native son of Georgia. If he were to siphon a few percent of white voters away from McCain that could tip the race in Obama's favor.

fred said...

SC will turn blue before Georgia. Wouldn't it be nice to see that whole cost go blue just like the West coast?

Nate - you seem to read comments, I have brought this up several times but you, of course, do it justice with numbers and stuff.

joel said...

The bradley effect exists in the minds of McCain supporters only. that`s the only hope they have of winning, believeing that there is a bradley effect out there.
I think anyone who doesn`t want to vote for Obama because of race don`t have to lie, they can just say he is inexperienced or something.Besides a lot of the polls are automated so there is no need to lie. We will find out if anything in a month Obama`s support may have been underrepresented.

Mary Mary Quite Contrary said...

Thank you so much for posting this.

I'm a worker for the Obama campaign in Georgia, and we've all worked very very hard, even with the realization that we won't win the state.

We aren't quite seeing Obama winning, but we are seeing a huge, ridiculously large increase over the numbers pulled in by Gore and Kerry, and other past elections.

Some might say "Well, if you don't win the state, who cares?" For one, a highly detestable man, Saxby Chambliss is campaigning to maintain his Senate seat, and Obama supporters coming out in force will help Jim Martin, his Democratic opponent.


And every year we increase the blue vote in Georgia, it becomes that much easier the next election.

We've been working our tails off, on voter registration, etcetera. So thank you, Nate, for noticing!

fred said...

Joel-

How true, and how pathetic. I talked to a guy who really buys the 6 point Bradley Effect. I have a bet that Obama is with in one or better of the RCP average (I picked it as it will be a conservative extimate of Obama's numbers going into election day). I can't wait to take some repub money!

Juris said...

Informative AJC article about status of registration in Georgia.

Rich Merritt said...

I'm a Georgia "ex-pat" living in Manhattan but I've retained my Georgia residency long enough just so I could vote against the shameful Chambliss. I'm a veteran and his and Karl Rove's treatment treatment of Max Cleland in 2002 is one of the darkest chapters in American politics. I hope Obama wins Georgia, but as Nate wrote, it probably won't matter. I just hope that he has enough coattails to sweep Saxby into the dustbin of history where he belongs.

Because of the high evangelical vote in Georgia, expect to see more of this kind of ad, at least in the fundamentalist mafia: Obama is the Antichrist.

ffoont said...

Nate, I am interested in your assertion that "newly-registered voters ... turn out at higher rates than previously registered voters." This contradicts everything else I've read about new voter turnout. So are you (once again) overturning conventional wisdom? I would be interested to see you expand on this.
Thanks for 538.

histocrat said...

Heh, a 6-point Bradley Effect wouldn't even swing the election. If you're going to fantasize about being rescued by mysterious masked racists, you're not wishing up enough of them.

Finbarr said...

What was Sarah Palin doing in California over the weekend? Surely there were other states where she would have been better off spending her time?

reiya said...

As awesome as this is even in a purely enfranchisement perspective - really, there's nothing more heartening than to see greater numbers vote - I'm curious as to how African Americans can be 40% of the electorate. Even the Wikipedia puts Georgia's AA population at 29.58%. Has the AA population increased by 10% in eight years?

don't panic said...

i was wondering if this high and apparently skewed early voting will significantly affect the exit polls.

how will pollsters take it into account?

and: when are early votes counted? before or after the 'regular' ones?

don't panic said...

reiya,
not 40% of the electorate, 40% of the early voters

Juris said...

Joel: The vast majority of people who talk about the "Bradley Effect" don't know what it means. They confuse the Bradley Effect -- which refers to people misreporting in pre-election surveys how they intend to vote -- with race-based voting -- people voting against a candidate because of race.

What Nate and most recent research has shown is that while many people's votes may be race-based (i.e., they may vote against Obama because he is African American), they're not disguising their vote intentions when they respond to pre-election surveys (i.e., the race-based voting is accurately reflected in what people way to pollsters).

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen
O-52, M-44

O's biggest lead ever
Bigger than any lead recorded by Rasmussen in 2004

He must have had a good Sunday night, I was worried because DailyKos ticked down a bit.

Obama wins men 49-47, dominates among women and independents

Favorables: O-56, M-53
McCain risks making his favorables worse if he himself tries to mudsling on the debate

Anne said...

I was literally just talking to my friends about the high possibility that the polls are underestimating black voters (as well as the young?) and that can only work in Obama's favor. Thanks for the concrete numbers supporting that!

First time commenter here - I want to thank you, Sean and Nate, for a fantastic site. It has made me more engaged in politics than I ever have before. I'm voting in PA, so hopefully I will help tilt this important state in the right direction. Obama-Biden 08!

bizkid23 said...

fred,

You are going to lose that bet. Obama is going to OUTperform the RCP average by more than one point.

mark said...

Ok I 've never commented on the Bradley effect but I keep hearing posters yelling "it does NOT exist!!!"

what I don't understand is how it doesn't. I mean truly there are still very racist people that will at the last minute at the polling station have that moment "I just CAN'T vote for a BLACK man"

no?
Saying there is no bradley effect is saying that wont happen, seems impossible to me
can anyone explain how it no longer exists??

Daver said...

Don't forget that people in Metro Atlanta were waiting hours in line for gas and in some cases parking their cars in line and returning when the gas trucks (ostensibly delayed by Hurricaine Ike disruptions) showed up to the individual filling stations. They were then gouged to the tune of 8 bucks a gallon in several cases.
This is just the kind of pocketbook issue to cause "reddies"
to go "blue" as a protest.

Antmatic said...

Obama gets 12% of GOP vote in Rasmussen's new survey. This kind of confirms my anecdotal evidence that some Northeastern type Republicans are fed up with the Palin-McCain antics and are voting Obama. This doesn't make a difference electorally but it can turn states like NY and MA bluer.

Huffy Henry said...

If Obama could swing a few percentage points of Georgia's white males and win the state, I wouldn't just call him good. I'd call him Cracker Jack.

Irving said...

Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate, is also more of a factor in Georgia than anywhere else. Barr was a Representative from Georgia before he started drinking Libertarian Kool-aid. Neal Boortz, a self-proclaimed Libertarian (which in his interpretation is a political stance just to the right of Ron Paul), also makes his home in Georgia. These factors may well shave five or so points from the white Republican vote in Georgia, possibly more.

Antmatic said...

I would love to hear Obama say this on election night:

"With your help, even the red clay of Georgia is a little bit bluer tonight!"

Sedi said...

"What was Sarah Palin doing in California over the weekend?"

Fundraising. Although McCain/Palin can't officially raise money for themselves, they are bypassing the campaign finance laws and calling it the "McCain/Palin Victory Fund." This is money that can be used on their behalf, although they can't legally coordinate with the RNC about use of the funds (there is clearly some indirect coordination going on, however). Is this blatantly violating the spirit of the campaign finance rules that McCain helped to write? Yes, absolutely. Was this scheme part of the reason that Obama opted out of public financing? Unquestionably.

fred said...

bzkid-

I agree, if he is within one point OR BETTER of the last RCP average, I win. It's easy money, there is no Bradley Effect.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

You libs are delusional.

Obama will not play well out in the real world, in the heartland, in that part of the country between Manhattan and Malibu where regular, normal Americans live.

They won't vote for someone like BHO who is exotic, liberal, big city, and pals around with terrorists!

Darío said...

I think Barr is more competitive in NC than Georgia.

THE Bob said...

what I don't understand is how it doesn't. I mean truly there are still very racist people that will at the last minute at the polling station have that moment "I just CAN'T vote for a BLACK man"

But the Bradley effect involves ONLY people that say they will and THEN they won't. There is no indication there are that many 'wishy washy' racists any more. The ones that won't vote for Obama because of race are already in the McCain camp and answer pollsters accordingly.

Bryan said...

Nate, I am interested in your assertion that "newly-registered voters ... turn out at higher rates than previously registered voters." This contradicts everything else I've read about new voter turnout. So are you (once again) overturning conventional wisdom? I would be interested to see you expand on this.

Nate probably has some actual hard data on this, but it does make some sense intuitively; if someone's interested enough in the election to register to vote, they are very likely interested enough to actually vote in that cycle.

Frank Drackman said...

Keep telling yourselves theres no Bradley effect, although it'll be the "Obama Effect" for the next 40 years or so. Its not so much bigoted whites lying as the normal minority, hmm how shall I say this umm hell, Laziness, same reason they don't mail wellfare checks anymore, mfs too lazy to walk down to the check cashing place. We'll see Nov 5th, McCain 285, coincidentally, the Interstate that surrounds Atlanta, wierd, isn't it.

p smith said...

I think we were all expecting the McCain smear attack but I never expected them to be so dumb as to openly admit that they are actively trying to avoid discussing the economy by raising these personal character attacks.

McCain has received no bounce out of Palin's disgraceful comments not least because the Ayers story is old and a non story but because people are sick and tired of this stuff. I truly believe that for every voter McCain scares into line, he loses a voter who was originally attracted by McCain's integrity and record of bipartisanship.

The big unknown is whether McCain has the balls to raise the personal issues face to face in tomorrow's debate. My guess is he is not. If I were Obama I would hit him head on and accuse of him having no solutions to the nation's problems, just smears and personal attacks. He should challenge McCain to say what he has to say to his face and not hide behind Palin's apron strings. McCain will either respond and look angry or he will back off and look like a pussy.

It has got to the stage where I want to see McCain humiliated in a landslide with not even his integrity to comfort him.

fred said...
This post has been removed by the author.
bizkid23 said...

Achile,

What are you smoking?

"Nate, you linked to the 2007 data. Here's the correct data for October 2008: http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/voter%5Fregistration/SSVRZ193.pdf"

fred said...

bryan-

I have always heard that newly registered voters show up in higher numbers, but I don't have time to do a lit search right now. You should be able to google it.

Will said...

Mark,
Please see Nate's numerous posts about the Bradley effect. He's explained it quite well as to why it is rather insignificant.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect

domineydesign said...

I live in Atlanta, and a week ago had a local rep for the GA Democratic Party knocking on my door. I spoke with him for at least 15 minutes about their game plan, and it was quite interesting. He noted the same points in this article, that they were registering massive numbers of voters, with many being in rural areas that don't have public transportation and no means of transport to the polls. They were raising money to pay for all the buses, vans, and volunteer's cars to get people out to the polls. He's obviously a kool-aid drinker, but he was overflowing with confidence that with the numbers they've been seeing Barack *will* take GA.

And yeah, I donated a nice chunk of change. Nothing would make me happier than seeing GA turn blue.

cora said...

I'm sure there are also "hard-working" white males in places like WV hiding their intention to vote Obama. Thought about this after the WV miners' strike over the FOX interview story.

fred said...

Also remember, based on back rolling Rasmussen numbers, democrats indentifiers by Party ID were 3% BETTER last week than Rasmussen is using. Rasmussen is using a 6 week rolling average, but by looking at the numbers it is clear last weeks dem identifiers by party ID were used it would make the race:

53.5 Obama
40.5 McCain

Let's hope the dem identification stays high through election day.

Let's all keep in mind though, Gore was up 8 points in October and LOST!

Cullen said...

Are there any sites out there that have historical Presidential polling data? Google doesn't help and it doesn't appear to be on Pollster.com. For example I'd like to see full Gallup poll trends for as many Presidential elections as possible.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

He only based that on primaries.

A general election could be totally different, and we WILL see a Bradley/Obama Effect in it.

reiya said...

mark: The Bradley Effect is all about statistics. The behaviour that you correctly mention, namely people telling pollsters that they'll vote for a black person and ending up voting for his/her white competitor, might still happen, but Nate and co's (and we're talking heavy-weight 'and co' here; lots of academic research on this) point is that it is no longer statistically significant. People might still lie to pollsters, but they won't do to an extent that our numbers here are wrong because of the said lying.

Hope this helps!

hermance said...

Living in Texas, I really appreciate reports like this that complicate the very unnuanced view of red state versus blue state. Indeed, I don't expect Obama to come close to carrying Texas, but as many point out, his GOTV efforts will really make a difference in many of our local elections.

One thing folks haven't pointed out, though, is that the popular election number will give Obama credibility. He needs to come into office looking like he has people's support. And if McCain wins while losing the popular vote (which I do understand is highly unlikely), I think that this will really draw attention to the undemocratic nature of our presidential elections, which in my opinion is also a good thing.

And RWC poster, the fact that Obama plays in the heartland is evidenced by the fact that they needed to send Palin to Omaha, NE to fight for one EV. Many people understand that the real elitist in this election is the guy who's lived in Washington for over 30 years and got into college as a legacy, then still performed terribly in both his academic and military service. The Republicans blew their wad trying to pass this same lie off about privileged, political legacy Bush; it just doesn't hold up anymore.

Sedi said...

Wow, Frank Drackman, do you want to make any other sweeping racist characterizations that stereotype everybody not of purely European ancestry?

bizkid23 said...

fred,

Great bet. Get me in on that action, any amount. :)

Antmatic said...

Conservatives:

1. Why do you think you have to rely on a Bradley Effect to even have a competitive race

2. How could you be even proud of that fact? Seems anti-American to me.

fred said...

All - let's quit giving Drudge hits. He is all anti-Obama right now and lying about records. I guess the repub liars are having an easier time getting irrelevant stories about coffee shops carried by Drudge than real news stories.

Will said...

Let's all keep in mind though, Gore was up 8 points in October and LOST!

Not quite. He still was ahead after all the votes were counted, I don't think he ever trailed in the popular vote polls. He just didn't manage to win the electoral vote majority.

Darío said...

What do you think guys?.
Bradley Effect is pure racism or not?

R-Boy said...

As a member of the Department of Justice who will be on election coverage, I can state with Certainty to one Frank Drackman that we do not drive around in Crown Victorias. We rent cars from Hertz or other places just like everyone else.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

McCain is going to win this election by getting 70% of undecided voters in PA.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Democrats are POOR CLOSERS.

Antmatic said...

Right wing conspiricist - Too bad over 50% of PA voter seem to have decided for Obama already. 70% won't get you where you need to be.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Some of them will change their minds at the polls.

fred said...

RWC-


What about OH, CO, FL, IN, NC, VA, IA, NM, MI, and MN? Obama wins a few of those and this is OVER. And you can have PA (even though PA is bluer than amny statres mentioned).

Real Joe said...

Morning Music !

Real Joe said...

Good Morning guys

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

I'm not surprissed to see Ras tick up for O considering he's always polled a bit better on weekends.

Question for you all and I think I've seen this addressed before.

On the ballots in VA, Obama-Biden are listed first, as are Warner and Moran the Democratic Senate and House members.

Does being listed first help your chances? If so, that's good news for Obama in VA.

Real Joe said...

any new polls ?

Judge C. Crater said...

"What would this mean to Nixon's Southern Strategy (target Southern voters unhappy with the Democrats' Civil Rights Act) even if FL is not considered a Southern state)?"

I can't help but be reminded of the Jesus Jones song:

"I was alive and I waited waited,
I was alive and I waited for this,
Right here, right now, there is no other place I want to be,
Right here, right now, watching the world wake up from history."

fred said...

Hi real joe-

Ras 52-44 for Obama.

Chris1974 said...

This is my first time posting on this site, although have been reading it for several months. I grew up in the Atlanta area and my parents still live there so I have some insight into the politics in GA. For one, Bob Barr probably won't have the influence several of you think. For one, he was a controversial representative in Cobb county and didn't represent the whole state. And he ended up losing his seat in a primary to John Linder. Secondly, GA is not a particularly libertarian state. Barr would probably have more influence out west than anywhere in the south. Believe me, I would love to see Barr take votes from McCain, but I wouldn't count on it.

real joe said...

Hi guys!

I'm a douchebag!

Frank Drackman said...

Just posted on DRUDGE

"OBAMA FATHER OF BRISTOLS LOVE-CHILD!!"

cora said...

REAL JOE is back !

Good morning REAL JOE

Jeremy said...

Diageo/Hotline tracker:

Obama 47% McCain 41%.

All data is post Biden/Palin.

real joe said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Real Joe said...

fu** you sockpuppet

real joe said...

Good morning!

I kicked my meth habit today. :)

real joe said...

Stop sockpuppeting me!

clubok said...

Battleground:

Obama 50
McCain 43

Battleground has finally caught up to the other trackers!

This includes polling from 9/30-10/2, plus 10/5.

STepper said...

Right Wing Conspiricist is annoying. He can't even spell Conspiracist right. A true Sarah Palin Kool Aid drinker.

After you get by reading his illiterate name, how can anyone give any credence to what this idiot posts?

That's a rhetorical question so that RWC doesn't get tripped up on it.

Darío said...

What State is libertarian?
Montana? Nevada?

real joe said...

I have no real life. :(

Real Joe said...

cora said...
REAL JOE is back !

Good morning REAL JOE


morning cora

cora said...

Rasmussen

O 52 M 44

Diageo

O 48 M 41

R2000

O 52 M 40


REAL JOE DAILY TRACKER ?

O ? M ?


REAL JOE ?

histocrat said...

The reason Nate dismisses the Bradley effect is not so much his own analysis as this study:
http://people.iq.harvard.edu/%7Edhopkins/wilder13.pdf

which did a massive analysis of old elections and demonstrated that there was a Bradley effect through 1989, and that there isn't one now.

The one thing that might grant hope to those fantasizing about secret racists is that there is, of course, no data on a major-party mixed-race Presidential candidate. So it's possible that racists somehow are more ashamed of voting against Obama while he's running for President that they would be if he were running for Congress.

Oh, and Frank? The hate is an addictive drug, and it's bad for you. You can ease yourself off by finding other ways of getting an adrenaline rush, and get the poison out of your system by talking to some real live poor non-white Americans. It's a painful and humbling process, but worth it in the long run.

Sedi said...

Real Joe,
There is at least one result this morning that looks decent for your guy. An Albuquerque Journal poll has Obama leading in NM 45-40, with 14% undecided and 1% for Ralph Nader. A write-up of the poll notes that Obama has a much bigger lead among Hispanics, 62-17 with 21% undecided. Obama is getting only 73% of Democrats, however, with 16% undecided. That seems like a unrealistically low number of Democrats for Obama to be pulling in at this stage. The good news is that Obama is winning independents in the poll 44-29, with 22% still undecided.

This poll has a lot of undecideds, and basic on the demographics one would expect them to break more for Obama than for McCain. Still, being within 5 in NM isn't such a bad result for McCain given the national numbers right now.

fred said...

MT is very libertarian and Ron Paul is on the ballot there (Constitution Party). Could that flip make MT blue? I need MT polling with RON PAUL!

Real Joe said...

fred said...
Hi real joe-

Ras 52-44 for Obama.


thanks Fred

michiganmaine said...

CONspiRACIST and Drckman,

You right wingers seem unable to base anything on facts or polls or any real argument. Just asserting something is going to happen despite the facts isn't convincing to anyone except the already blindly convinced. What do you think you are accomplishing with your fantasies?

Frank Drackman said...

So Whens Joe Biden coming to Georgia? I know that Scranton Workin Stiff Image will do well in the Peach State. Might want to change your stance on Assault Rifles though, if you want to keep that 99.9% share of the felon I mean minority vote. He could even tell Max Cleland to Stand Up! and give yourself a hand!

Real Joe said...

sockpuppet's don't have a life

aqueous said...

Interesting math, but as you say, it seems to me that if Obama wins Georgia he'll have won a lot of other traditionally red states too. So it's unlikely. But amazing that he's doing so well nonetheless!

I'm continually amused by the 'Is it over for Obama?" Newsmax ad that keeps showing up on this site.

It's been showing up since the Primary, IIRC. Reality, meet wingnuts. Wingnuts, this is reality.

Shanni said...

I am a black voter living in Atlanta, and I can tell you now the black vote will come out in full force. I personally think that with the youth vote, the black vote, and good percentage of white southerners, Georgia will go blue, or at the very least dark purple. The AJC has been reporting for several days the level of black turnout this year. You are right in saying that black people in general are not going to miss an opportunity to vote for the first black candidate on a major ticket.

I'm a certified county registrar for Fulton County (The largest populated county in Georgia) and I can tell you that we have been registering many, many, new voters who most likely lean towards Obama. I wish Obama would come back to Georgia. He came to Georgia Tech, but I wish he would come to Georgia State University where I attend.

Real Joe said...

any state numbers coming out today ?

don't panic said...

i believe this november will see what will be forever remembered as the "real joe™ effect", where staunchy conservative will vote blue in protest of the Abject Red Duo, even if it will cost him 50k in added taxes!

Real Joe said...

aqueous said...

I'm continually amused by the 'Is it over for Obama?" Newsmax ad that keeps showing up on this site.


Ha Ha

clubok said...

Real Joe:

Ras has polls for a bunch of juicy swing states coming out at 6:00 EST. I don't have the list in front of me, but I know it includes OH, FL, CO, and VA.

John said...

Today's GWU/Battleground tracking poll:

Obama 50
McCain 43

Caution: These numbers may be "revised" to be more favorable to McCain later today.

Real Joe said...

don't panic said...
i believe this november will see what will be forever remembered as the "real joe™ effect", where staunchy conservative will vote blue in protest of the Abject Red Duo, even if it will cost him 50k in added taxes!


huh ?

someperson718 said...

I keep saying one of Obama's worst decisions this election was not pursuing WV. That state is RAVAGED right now and I think if he had put some work in there he would be either very close or ahead, even with all the racists.

Kelly said...

Cullen & others looking for polling data for past elections,

Here's Pollster.com's composite polling trends for the last two elections:
http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/426/CF_Oct.jpg

As you can see, Obama's doing much better than either Gore or Kerry was.

Darío said...

clubock, and Rasmussen includes MO today.
And exclude PA.
I think for Scott PA isn´t a battleground state now.

Real Joe said...

clubok said...
Real Joe:

Ras has polls for a bunch of juicy swing states coming out at 6:00 EST. I don't have the list in front of me, but I know it includes OH, FL, CO, and VA


thanks clubok

tomorrow morning:

Time-CNN battleground numbers ?

Shawn said...

FreeRepublic is hilarious today. Here is there Rasmussen Daily Tracker post for today. 50/50 split for concession and denial. Happy reading.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2098616/posts

don't panic said...

real joe,
my crystal ball is predicting you'll end up voting obama, even at the cost of your tax return.

and instead of the bradley effect, we'll be talking about the"real joe™ effect"

;o)

Real Joe said...

stocks are going down

not good for us

Shawn said...

"Any state numbers coming out today ?"

From Rasmussen -
New polling will be released tonight at 6:00 p.m. Eastern with statewide results from Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and Virginia.

don't panic said...

not good for anyone

Real Joe said...

lol

Real Joe said...

@shawn

looking forward to it

don't panic said...

besides real joe,
since you are going to pay more taxes anyways, might as well vote for it and claim you did it on purpose for the good of the nation

Darío said...

Missouri?.
It´s a battleground now?

Antmatic said...

Georgia is similar to NC and VA in two ways:

1. There is a large black population, with a lot of middle and upper middle class Af-Am families

2. There is a sizeable moderate-to liberal white population, largely concentrated in Atlanta and some inner ring Atlanta suburbs. This population is exploding, especially as more younh people move to the city

3. More Hispanics are moving in

The issue with Georgia is that

1. It has a larger rural / farming population both in North GA near the Appalachians and in the vast South GA region than NC or VA

2. The suburbs of Atlanta are a magnet for upper middle class graduates from all across the SEC. Once these folks have families, they essentially turn into the Republican base. There is less of this in VA and NC, where the suburbanites tend to be a bit more liberal.

thatmarvelousape said...

Well, it looks like, despite the furious spin from the media, the people have clearly ruled Thursday's debate in Biden's favor. Thanks but no thanks, Governor Palin.

Cullen said...

Thanks Kelly. I've seen that chart. What I'm hoping for is something more along the lines of.. raw Gallup data for, say, 1988 Dukakis vs Bush. Maybe this is only available to people willing to pay for it, though.

aqueous said...

"So Whens Joe Biden coming to Georgia? I know that Scranton Workin Stiff Image will do well in the Peach State. Might want to change your stance on Assault Rifles though, if you want to keep that 99.9% share of the felon I mean minority vote. He could even tell Max Cleland to Stand Up! and give yourself a hand!"

Congratulations to everyone, I think we have found ourselves a real Southern racist who visits this blog. I wasn't sure that Southern racists could even use the Internets, but it turns out they understand it at least at the rudimentary level.

john said...

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Barack Obama attracting 52% of the vote while John McCain earns 44%. This is the highest level of support ever recorded for Obama and is his largest lead of the year. It also continues a remarkable twenty-five days in a row where the Democrat’s support has never declined by even a single point. The Democratic candidate has gained six full percentage points of support since Lehman Brothers collapsed to start the Wall Street mess

What can I add? nothing

mark said...

Real Joe, you've managed to go from annoying poster to one of my favorites!

I love your attitude even though I thoroughly disagree with your politics

Good Morning to you as well!

ps. I want to change my username from mark to something more individual but I'm not entirely sure how to change that

:\

don't panic said...

"something more individual" is kind of a long handle...

mark said...

I find the MSM argument as being so liberal is such bullshit, I wish someone could factually disprove sarah and her lies about that

drives me insane

just because you say stupid shit , doesn't make the media any more or less "liberal" or "elite" for that matter

just makes you stupid

Real Joe said...

don't panic said...
besides real joe,
since you are going to pay more taxes anyways, might as well vote for it and claim you did it on purpose for the good of the nation


haha

i know my vote alone can't stop Obama :-(

lets see how these attacks will translate into numbers

28 days to go

EmonOkari said...

Well, it looks like, despite the furious spin from the media, the people have clearly ruled Thursday's debate in Biden's favor. Thanks but no thanks, Governor Palin.

But, but...Scarborough and Buchanan are touting her praises saying she "cleaned Biden's clock"! Even those two 'Far Left-Wing' pundits of NBC are admitting she won!

*shakeshead*

Whew, sorry about that. Just a bit of the Old-Republican still in me. /wink

PorridgeGun said...

You libs are delusional.

Obama will not play well out in the real world, in the heartland, in that part of the country between Manhattan and Malibu where regular, normal Americans live.

They won't vote for someone like BHO who is exotic, liberal, big city, and pals around with terrorists!




OMG, is that you, Mooseburger?



Didn't Rudy 9iu11ani pull that same cosmopoliatn shit at the Republican convention? How exactly do you conflate "exotic" and BIG CITY with Illinois and Scranton, Pennsylvania?

mark said...

haha


true dat don't panic
true dat

how about fagottymark

that'd be a nice memorable username

fred said...

It is over for Obama! The poor guy is going to inherit two wars, a tanking economy, and a bunch of racists who hate him.

This will take years off the guys life, I am just thrilled the guy wants the job! VOTE OBAMA!

Rich Merritt said...

Right Wing Conspiricist said...
You libs are delusional.

Obama will not play well out in the real world, in the heartland, in that part of the country between Manhattan and Malibu where regular, normal Americans live.

They won't vote for someone like BHO who is exotic, liberal, big city, and pals around with terrorists


Who do you think lives in Manhattan and Malibu? People like me, from Piedmont, South Carolina, a place I couldn't leave fast enough because of the incurious, bigoted, racist attitudes. I've lived in Los Angeles and now in Manhattan and as a 13-year veteran I've more than earned the right to call myself a normal, regular American. And I'm campaigning in Pennsylvania for Barack Obama!

But Seriously...

Jonny said...

The biggest losers in this campaign have been the pundits. Have they been right about anything this season?

Real Joe said...

mark said...

ps. I want to change my username from mark to something more individual but I'm not entirely sure how to change that

:\


its simple

1. go to

http://www.blogger.com/edit-profile.g

2. change the display name

3. click "Save Profile"

Frank Drackman said...

Have any Y'all(We really say that) ever BEEN to Georgia? There is a large Afro-American population, unfortunately most of it is either locked up in the Georgia State Prisons, or home taking care of Prisoners Kids. Liberal Atlanta Suburbs? Give me some of what you're smokin, theyre still pissed about Sherman burning Atlanta down. Your most heavily minority areas are SOUTH Georgia, which is where I'll be with my Crown Vic and Deputy Dawg Badge. DOJ observers don't venture south of Macon, Hell even Jimmy Carter won't go there.

fred said...

Frankie-

There is alot of support for Obama in the white Atlants 'burbs. Ever been downtown? Huge black and white professional support for Obama.

Get a clue!

Real Joe said...

frank drackman said...
Have any Y'all(We really say that) ever BEEN to Georgia? There is a large Afro-American population, unfortunately most of it is either locked up in the Georgia State Prisons


huh ?

most blacks are not in jail in GA

give me the numbers

markedhomo said...

thanks Real Joe!

I'm really bad with computers

Real Joe said...

Dow down 300 points

meconella said...

Real Joe..

Please stop spamming the place.

You are ruining it for a lot of people.

You are not funny nor creative, and are just plain boring.

Please go away.

markedhomo said...

any predictions for today Rasmussen polls?

I say MO is tied

Ohio +4 for O
FL +4 for O
Va +4 for O

I think his leads might have shrunk a bit

:(

but i"m not sure
I guess I Just can't believe all this can keep happening eventually his numbers must go down

honestly I'm most concerned about Colorado

markedhomo said...

meconella, Real Joe is a regular here and I don't think he spams anymore at all


cut him some slack

Sedi said...

"I think for Scott PA isn´t a battleground state now."

Good observation, Dario. Actually, I think that for anybody who follows the polling numbers PA probably isn't a central battleground state right now. A tracking poll and a bunch of state polls consistently show a high single-digits lead for Obama in PA. If he were blowing off the state I would say that McCain might have a chance to flip it, but Obama keeps going there and doing events. I think Obama sees that if he holds PA he is very likely to win the election.

p smith said...

PPP will release a new poll for Ohio this week. Early indications suggest it is more in line with Quinnipiac (which showed an 8 point Obama lead) than Rasmussen (tied).

If McCain starts to slip back in Ohio, his firewall is gone.

The trackers confirm that the Palin debate performance was a wash or possibly a net plus for Obama/Biden with Obama increasing his lead slightly in all of them.

Real Joe said...

one of my babies(google)

down 3%

down 46% for the year

whooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooo!

short baby short

Real Joe said...

meconella said...
Real Joe..

Please stop spamming the place.


WTF is wrong with you ?

i don't spam

Real Joe said...

PA is drifting away :-(

someperson718 said...

thatmarvelousape


I LITERALLY heard a pundit say "Sarah Palin did not fall on her face so it should be considered a DRAW." I almost shit myself in anger.

fred said...

The LA Times confirms, this crazy losing strategy of a McCain campaign is SteveSchmidt's:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-schmidt6-2008oct06,0,555417.story

fred said...

Real Joe is being sockpuppeted, not even sure these last posts are his. They do not sound like "our" Real Joe.

ialex said...

Dr. Drackman, what would the AMA have to say about your rhetoric? your patients?

PorridgeGun said...

At this point, FReeptards and conservatrolls have doubled down on large sections of the country being RACIST, or praying for a national security tragedy, like another 9/11.


This basically gives you an idea of how "Un-American" the whole right-wing idealogy and mindset is.

markedhomo said...

psmith, where do you get your early indications?
do they leak early polling data before releasing the results?

markedhomo said...

classic real joe is

"PA is drifting away :-("

usually he's just sad about good news for obama and uses a lot of sad faces

EmonOkari said...

Summary of the last 2 weeks of the McCain Campaign:

"The Fundamentals Of The Economy Are Strong."

"Oh wait, we're in a crises."

"Its so bad I have to suspend my campaign."

"I brought Republicans and Democrats together to pass a bailout."

"Dammit, its the democrats fault it didn't pass."

"There its now passed, and I voted for the bailout. And I'm against everything it stands for."

"DOW still tanking? Ah, fuck it. I'm done with the stupid economy. So, any of you folks ever heard about Ayers?"

eve said...

drackman, take your sheet and go home. No one cares to read trash from trash.

Todd Dugdale said...

roxanne wrote:
This is nice and everything, but the Bradley effect scares the hell out of me. Can we have statistics for this?

Yes, I am shocked - shocked, I tell you - that no pollster has polled people asking if they lie to pollsters or not.

Let me guess: you think the Bradley Effect means that racist people won't vote for minority candidates, right?

Wrong. It means that people lie to pollsters and say they will vote for a minority candidate, but then won't because of racism.

Short of telepathy, how do you imagine such "statistics" could be gathered?

The Bradley Effect is a myth, and it's putative existence is not in racist areas, but in areas considered to be not inclined to racism. Openly racist people are open about their refusal to vote for a minority.

Real Joe said...

fred said...
Real Joe is being sockpuppeted, not even sure these last posts are his. They do not sound like "our" Real Joe.


Fred

its me

there was a few comments from a sockpuppet earlier

someperson718 said...

The dow is falling, FUCK!? Am I the only one that sees early voting going HORRIBLY for McCain at a time like this? This is the worst time for him considering with news like this a majority of early voters will surely vote for Obama AND those votes will be in the bank no matter what.

Redshift said...

antmatic:
2. The suburbs of Atlanta are a magnet for upper middle class graduates from all across the SEC. Once these folks have families, they essentially turn into the Republican base. There is less of this in VA and NC, where the suburbanites tend to be a bit more liberal.

Not "a bit more liberal" in VA; they're the Democratic base here. (I hope you're right about and there's a similarity to the Atlanta suburbs, though! :-) The Republicans were crowing after 2004 because the exurbs, which they generally won across the country, had the highest percentage growth. What we saw in 2006 was that as the population in those areas increases, they get more Democratic.

ransomweaver said...

J.D said--
"How can Evangelicals and other fundamentalist Christians justify supporting McCain, claiming that they are voting on Christian principles"

maybe this is why the MacPal offices are deserted. Hold nose and vote but no volunteering...

@Juris- regarding countermobilization by MacPal in GA due to indication of high BO early voting - hard to do with no volunteers?

@kelly- BO shoulda paid attention to WV-- maybe, but WV is *really* hard to get around in. Hard for him and his surrogates to visit, and I got to think that it makes for bad efficiencies in the ground game.

Redshift said...

someperson718:
I LITERALLY heard a pundit say "Sarah Palin did not fall on her face so it should be considered a DRAW." I almost shit myself in anger.

Well, it worked with Bush in 2000 -- they successfully lowered expectations to the point where if he didn't drool on himself, he'd be declared the winner.

ialex said...

The dow is falling, FUCK!? Am I the only one that sees early voting going HORRIBLY for McCain at a time like this? This is the worst time for him considering with news like this a majority of early voters will surely vote for Obama AND those votes will be in the bank no matter what.

unless they meet a shredder...

Frank Drackman said...

Eve, I told you not to bother that Snake!! Anyway this isn't Russia(not yet)and I'll take my Sheet when Y'all stop playing that Rap Music in Y'alls Cars so loud.

fred said...

We need MT with Ron Paul, is some pollster listening? What other states is Ron Paul on the ballot in? This fiancail mess will make more libertarians vote Barr and Paul.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/022703.html

J said...

Big thanks to all the Dem workers out there checking in. I love hearing the stories! :)

Jesus Christ, when this is over, Schmidt won't be able to get hired running a campaign for dog catcher. :)

fred said...

Europe is now jumping in to save their banks, the plunge has little to do with our bailout. The BBC was crazy about Germany overnight, Germany jumped in to save a bank after saying they had no issues Friday.

Redshift said...

Real Joe:
Dow down 300 points

The traders probably heard the news that even though last week it was an extreme emergency requiring legislation to be passed NOW! without thinking too much about it, Paulson doesn't expect to be using any of these new rescue powers until November at the earliest. WTF?

Jonathan said...

Anyone else notice how RCP is increasingly having to go to either obscure (2nd tier local paper) or fringe sources to be able to find anyone willing to say anything good about McCain? Even those are increasingly weighted towards being negative about Obama as opposed to anything positive about McCain.

niedda said...

Rasmussen having Obama at 52 is remarkable.

fred said...

Killing Schmidt and Rovian tactics should motivate us all through election day!

ialex said...

Not "a bit more liberal" in VA; they're the Democratic base here. (I hope you're right about and there's a similarity to the Atlanta suburbs, though! :-) The Republicans were crowing after 2004 because the exurbs, which they generally won across the country, had the highest percentage growth. What we saw in 2006 was that as the population in those areas increases, they get more Democratic.

Atlanta's suburbs are not similar to NoVA's. Some may be as affluent but they're RED and I don't see them turning blue anytime time soon. They're dominated by right-wing Jesus freak types. You know the kind who go to churches with 10k people. The only blue area is within I-285. ~750k people.

Redshift said...

Don't feed the trolls, people.

Alex S. said...

Thanks Nate, I once made a similar calculation for Mississippi and I think it´s going to be close, too. Btw, if McCain keeps on looking like a sure loser his turnout will suffer. But that would be at the point where it doesn´t matter anymore.

Joey said...

I keep saying one of Obama's worst decisions this election was not pursuing WV. That state is RAVAGED right now and I think if he had put some work in there he would be either very close or ahead, even with all the racists.

I was just watching this morning on CNN how they are ravaging the tops of mountains digging for coal, basically stripping the tops. The people are angry about it and want to put wind turbines up top.

Sounds like a good time for Obama to swing in.

Though really...it's pretty red now and not as battleground as other states that are turning on their own.

fred said...

Niedda-

Ras is truly remarkable, particularly considering their party ID is getting bluer and with the real Party ID instead of last week (instead of the last 6) Ras is underpolling Obama by 3 points!

Redshift said...

ialex:
That's what I figured based on what I'd heard. I mostly wanted to disabuse the notion that VA (and NC?) suburbs are like Atlanta's.

markedhomo said...

no predictions for this afternoon's Ras polls?

Real Joe said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Matt said...

Diageo/Hotline tracking poll:

O:47
M:41

Real Joe said...

markedhomo said...
no predictions for this afternoon's Ras polls?


i'm praying for a McCain comeback

:-)

Real Joe said...

matt said...
Diageo/Hotline tracking poll:

O:47
M:41


thats old ?

Real Joe said...

Nasdaq down 5%

Finch said...

Dow drop is almost at 400 on the day. Ugh.

Real Joe said...

DOW down 400

Real Joe said...

DOW could break 9800

Cugel said...

In 1968 Nixon inaugurated the Southern Strategy for getting white southerners (some northerners too) who were angry about the civil rights movement to switch to the Republicans. It worked.

If you look at the electoral map of 1948 (see Wikipedia) it's completely the reverse of 2004. Truman won with states like Missouri, Texas, Virginia, while the Republican Dewey won California, New York, Connecticut.

But white working class voters have been convinced since 1968 that minorities are stealing their jobs, and they've voted Republican as a result.

Meanwhile there was a delay in the Northeast, the upper Midwest and far West (and now the Rocky Mountain West) turning blue. That made it possible for the Reagan coalition to dominate America for 40 years.

But that's slowly changing. There is really NO question it will happen, because we have history as a guide!

In 1996 the white vote was 83%.
In 2000 the white vote was 81%.
In 2004 the white vote was 77%.
In 2008, even without massive new registration efforts, just normal demographic increase, the white vote will be around 73%, maybe 72%.

By sometime around 2040 America will be a minority majority country and it's happening about 1% a year.

There's just no future for a party that alienates minorities. Yet ONCE AGAIN the Republican party is demonizing, not Obama, but his supporters!

We're not "real Americans." Obama is "too foreign" "too different" "elitist" (i.e. urban, northern, too hip, too BLACK!)

In short he's black and thus "not one of us." He's an empty suit. "Take away the cheering crowds and what do you have?" McCain's ads ask. We all know the answer. A black man!

These code words are understood by everybody. No African American or Hispanic or Asian American doesn't understand. Everybody's heard it all before from the "English only" assholes.

And Republicans just haven't caught on. They are still running the same code-word racist "white backlash" "Southern strategy" that worked so well for Nixon in 1972. In 1972 McGovern lost in a landslide. But, now? Things have changed.

Republicans keep trying to win by stomping on minorities and playing up white fears, even as minorities become the majority! Where's the future in that?

They didn't realize that the same sorts of "culture war" attacks that were marginally tolerable against a rich white man like John Kerry are totally out of bounds against the first African American candidate!

Because if Obama isn't a "real American," if he isn't "one of us" then 27 million Americans aren't either.

And the message that sends is: "it doesn't matter how smart or handsome or successful you are, how hard you work or how great your accomplishments. It doesn't matter how perfectly you embody the supposed American dream. You will NEVER be 'one of us.' No matter how hard you try it will never be good enough. And white America will NEVER accept you."

Now you think people aren't going to resent that? It's PERSONAL! Everybody always knew it, but now Republicans are rubbing everybody's face with this stuff and nobody is ever going to forget it!

This IS a watershed election all right, but not in a way Republicans are going to like. The South didn't vote for a Republican for 100 years after the Civil War. Nobody forgot. The same thing will be true today.

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

Real Joe said...

this is not good for us

pension funds are getting hit

widmerpool said...

i live in Atlanta.

i think NC is more fertile than GA but i've always thought a big AA turnout could have a big effect.

you can't find a McCain supporter within the city. Admittedly, the suburbs have huge populations but i don't sense any enthusiasm for McCain.

at the very least, McCain could be forced to defend GA. what a disaster that would be for his campaign.

Real Joe said...

we republicans will never win an election if we don't get the "minority" vote in the future

"minority" will be the majority in the future

hurn0003 said...

Real Joe,

I am confused. You are concerned about the market but voting for McCain, a man who is completely ignorant about the economy(by his own admission). Mind if I ask your motivation for voting for McCain?

-john

Voice of the Midwest said...

DOW down 400 - Real Joe

I think this reality and the debate tomorrow night give no traction for McCain on the William Ayers ads or Obama on the Keating Five ad.

The economy is front and center the overwhelming topic. Any effort to go negative in the face of a crisis on the economy will be disregarded by the majority of people.

McCain erred worse than Obama on the tit for tat, though: McCain paid for TV ads and Obama ran an internet ad which costs much less.

beehive maiden said...

All very encouraging but I'M GOING MENTAL as I wait for the election to finally take place!

joel said...

Fred Rasmussen increased his democratic party id from 5.5 to 6, he didn`t add more republicans, So his daily tracker should be more pro OBAMA BY .5%. The daily Kos tracking poll and Rasmusssen have pretty much both has Obama`s support equal the only difference is the Kos poll may understate McCains support a few points at 40%I don`t see why RCP doesn`t use it except it`s less favorable to McCain.
Anyway if the dow is under 10,000 tomorrow night McCain is screwed because people won`t want to hear about his personal attacks on Obama.
The guy knows he is going to lose he should go out like a champion with a little dignity instead of trying to destroy the man who will be out next president.