10.13.2008

If The Bradley Effect is Gone, What Happened To It?

It was Tom Bradley's 1982 race for governor of California, in which he lost to George Deukmejian in spite of leading in the public polls, that gave the Bradley Effect its name. But now Lance Tarrance, the pollster for Bradley in that race, has an article up at RCP suggesting that the Bradley Effect was merely a case of bad polling -- and that his campaign's internals had shown a dead heat:

The hype surrounding the Bradley Effect has evolved to where some political pundits believe in 2008 that Obama must win in the national pre-election polls by 6-9 points before he can be assured a victory. That’s absurd. There won’t be a 6-9 point Bradley Effect –- there can’t be, since few national polls show a large enough amount of undecided voters and it's in the undecided column where racism supposedly hides.

The other reason I reject the Bradley Effect in 2008 is because there was not a Bradley Effect in the 1982 California Governor’s race, either. Even though Tom Bradley had been slightly ahead in the polls in 1982, due to sampling error, it was statistically too close to call.
Tarrance's article is a fascinating read into the way that polls are spun and campaign narratives are spread. It is well worth your time to read the entire piece.

With that said, the evidence is pretty strong that the Bradley Effect in fact used to exist in the 1980s and probably through some point in the 1990s. In this Pew Research article you will find several examples of it, spanning the window from Harold Washington in 1983 to Carol Moseley Braun in 1992.

The evidence is perhaps equally strong, however, that the Bradley Effect does not exist any longer. As can be seen in the Hopkins paper for Harvard University that I have referenced many times, at some point during the mid 1990s the Bradley Effect seems to be disappeared.

(A brief aside: This is not to suggest that there was no relationship between race an errors in polling during the Democratic primaries. There is clear evidence that Barack Obama overperformed his polls in states with a large number of African-American voters, a.k.a a Reverse Bradley Effect. There is not any statistically compelling evidence however that Obama routinely underperformed his polls in states with a large number of white voters).

If the Bradley Effect has disappeared or at least dissipated, it is worth thinking about why. I can think of several plausible answers.

1. As Hopkins suggests, racial hot-button issues like crime, welfare and affirmative action are largely off the table today.

2. It may be generational. Expressions of racism are strongly correlated with age, and is much more common among pre-Boomer adults. However, a smaller and smaller fraction of the electorate each year came of age in the segregation era. The Pew study that I linked to above reports that 92 percent of Amerians are now comfortable voting for an African-American for President. In 1982, when Bradley's race occurred, that number was more like 75 percent. (Although the Bradley Effect isn't about racism per se -- it is about people misleading pollsters because of social desirability bias -- racism is nevertheless one of its prerequisites).

3. Racism also has a strong inverse correlation with education, and the country is much more educated than it used to be. In 1980, 55 percent of the electorate had attended at least some college. By 2004, that number had increased to 74 percent. Most colleges are racially diverse, at least to a degree, and so the experience of interacting with African-American students as friends and classmates may be a significant deterrent to racism.

4. There may be some relationship to the revival of the religious right in the 1990s. For members of the religious right, there are now ample and automatic reasons to vote against any liberal candidate, a.k.a. their positions on issues like abortion. In addition, the religious right has made voting along cultural grounds (as opposed to policy grounds) more socially acceptable in general. So long as the voter believes he or she can articulate a "valid" reason for voting against an African-American candidate, there is little reason to deceive a pollster about one's intention.

5. Relatedly, there may also now be less overlap between those sorts of voters who are more likely to harbor racist sentiments and those who are more likely to vote for a Democrat. One test of this hypothesis would be to see whether black Republican candidates still suffer from a Bradley Effect, even if black Democrats largely do not.

6. Polling techniques may have improved. For instance, "pushing" leaners toward one or another candidate with an appropriate follow-up question may be a good way to tease out the preferences of voters who are shy to reveal that they won't support a black candidate.

7. People's attitudes toward polls may have changed. Our society has become more and more impersonal, and so when a pollster calls, the respondent may no longer regard the interviewer as a "neighbor" to whom he or she must seem socially desirable. This would be taken to the logical extreme by IVR polling technologies (a.k.a. "robopolls") in which there is no interaction with a human at all.

8. African-American candidates may have gotten smarter about how they market themselves to white voters.

399 comments

Jace Mace said...

being first is overrated

Matthew said...

Do you think this post will stop people from posting every thread with "but what about the Bradley effect"?

Hmmm, no, me either.

SBT Staff said...

This is great news...for John McCain!

STepper said...

Kep up the great work, Nate. What is your next TV appearance?

Jeff said...

Fifth!

Rich Merritt said...

Hey Nate, obviously you have your reasons for posting this but we banned any mention of the "Bradley" effect a long time ago.

Also, the commenters are tired of reading it, but because Obama is white, his 6% Bradley effect is only 3%.
Thanks for listening.
Rich

Real Joe said...

hahahahaha

Rich Merritt said...

of couse, in my haste to be sixth, I mistyped. Obama is half-white so he gets only half the Bradley effect. And I concur with Matthew, this ends the disussion!
The shamless self-promotion whore.

Christopher said...

Yeah, can we please ban the use of this term FOREVER!

Eric said...

Tina Fey to leave Earth

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/13/tina-fey-on-sarah-palin-i_n_134188.html

Brian said...

Thanks for posting this Nate. It seems that people are so tied up with the Bradley Effect this year, that they don't know what to do. I think it's the Republicans' only hope at this point (that it still exists and is actually going to somehow be anywhere from 6-11% depending on what they need to feel good about themselves). I am cautious about buying into it. I think we've seen enough African American and other minority candidates get elected to know that it is not going to effect the Presidential election this year.

thatmarvelousape said...

Regarding point #5, Lynn Swann and Ken Blackwell provide the strongest case against the Bradley Effect.

Frank said...

Another reason for the reduction in a Bradley effect is technology. Studies show people are more willing to express such opinions to a computer (voice dialog system) than another person.

The one time I answered the phone to participate in a survey this year, it was a voice dialog system.

Segelke43 said...

Actually, Nate, as Tarrance's piece points out, he was Deukmejian's pollster, not Bradley's.

Adrian said...

Do Voter Surveys Underestimate the Impact of Racial Bias?
Jennifer Couzin
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5899/180

As a grueling, multiyear presidential campaign comes to an end, a touchy question hangs in the air: Have voter polls been skewed by an inability to detect racial bias? Some social scientists think that many voters who say they support Democratic candidate Senator Barack Obama in fact may be uncomfortable with the prospect of an African-American president--or that polls have failed to reach Democratic voters most likely to harbor such prejudice. On election day, the theory goes, some fraction of those people may vote for Republican Senator John McCain--or not vote at all.

A few social scientists are trying to quantify this hidden racial bias. But in presidential politics, they're traversing new terrain. "Since polling began, there's never been this situation," with a white presidential nominee facing off against a black one, says sociologist Maria Krysan of the University of Illinois, Chicago. Although pollsters assume that some voters reject Obama because of his race, they don't know whether the polls are capturing all of that bias. One voter model that does attempt to factor in hidden racial bias, being published this month, suggests that it may drag down the numbers for Obama by 6%.

Concerns about this hidden factor, commonly called the "Bradley effect," date back to 1982 when Tom Bradley, an African American, lost the race for governor of California despite being ahead in polls prior to the election. A similar pattern showed up in 1989, when African-American Douglas Wilder had a 15% lead in the Virginia gubernatorial race but scraped by with a half-percent win in the election.

Evidence for a Bradley effect is decidedly mixed in the presidential campaign this year. Many African Americans have won elections for mayoral, state, and congressional offices since the Bradley days. Daniel Hopkins, a political scientist at Harvard University, notes that "Americans' racial attitudes have shifted markedly" in this time. Still, Hopkins was intrigued by the Democratic New Hampshire primary in January, when Senator Hillary Clinton pulled off a decisive win even though Obama had surged ahead in the polls the week before.

Turning to past elections, Hopkins examined every gubernatorial and Senate race from 1989 to 2006 that included either an African-American or a female candidate, on the rationale that a woman could also experience voter prejudice. Of the 133 elections he analyzed, just 18 included an African-American. Hopkins found no Bradley effect for blacks after 1996, and none for women at all. Before that time, African-Americans appeared to lose 2% or 3% of support stated in polls. Hopkins presented the work in July. "As best I can tell, unless race really became a central issue in this political campaign, I don't expect a Bradley effect," he says.

Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center in Washington, D.C., which performs public opinion polls, rejects the argument that voters are dishonest when asked whether they'll support Obama. That's partly because asking someone whom they plan to vote for is different than "if you ask them about race head-on," he says. But Kohut does worry that polls may still be skewed, because studies have shown that what pollsters refer to as "reluctant respondents"--people less likely to participate in a poll--tend to have less favorable attitudes toward racial minorities, and their intent may be missed in current polls.

"We are in an unknown world; we don't know what's going to happen with a black candidate," says Michael Lewis-Beck, a political scientist at the University of Iowa in Iowa City. Like others in a small cohort of election predictors, he combines voter polling responses, economic data, and public perceptions of the White House incumbent to forecast presidential elections every 4 years. Of nine groups publishing their models this month in PS: Political Science & Politics, Lewis-Beck is the only one who has adjusted his model to take race into account. His fine-tuning is based on voting patterns in the primaries and on how honest individuals are in saying they will support an African-American presidential candidate.

His prediction? Obama is likely to corral 50.1% of the popular vote but lose the election in the electoral college. Running his model, without taking race into account, Obama would capture 56% of the vote, says Lewis-Beck, a figure that's higher than most of his colleagues give. (Six of the nine models predict that Obama will win with at least 52% of the vote.) "It's a feel-good thing; people don't want to admit that race is a factor," he says, noting that on average he's been off by about 1.5% in his predictions in the past. Those who disagree that race will have much effect on voting patterns, he says, "live in ga-ga land."

Few analysts have tried to quantify the problem of hidden bias, precisely because it is so hard to detect. Most polling is done by phone and involves a one-on-one interaction. "It's not a positive attribute in general to express racial prejudices to a virtual stranger," says Krysan. But bias has been detected. Krysan recalls a study she did back in 1994, asking white residents of the Detroit metropolitan area whether they would vote for an African-American candidate: 11% said in a face-to-face interview that they would not, and 22% said no in a mail survey, which they filled out privately.

A pair of graduate students tried to measure such racial attitudes in a June 2007 survey of 1500 people, whom they divided randomly into three groups. Brian McCabe and Jennifer Heerwig, sociology students at New York University in New York City, used statistical tools to unmask covert attitudes. They asked their control group of 500 people point blank whether they would vote for an African-American president, and 84% said yes--a lower percentage than other polls. McCabe and Heerwig attribute the difference to greater privacy: Their survey was taken over the Internet. They asked the second group three questions unrelated to race, such as whether presidential campaigns are too costly. The third group was asked those same three questions, plus a fourth about whether they'd vote for an African-American candidate. McCabe and Heerwig knew only how many statements the respondents in those two groups agreed with, not which ones. "If you have a socially undesirable answer, you can hide it," says McCabe. With some statistical analysis, they determined that assuming the three groups were similar, 14% of their first cohort lied, and in truth just 70% would support an African-American. Democrats were much more likely to be dishonest than Republicans, proffering up the socially desirable answer, as were those with less education.

However, it's not clear "how well a question about a generic black presidential candidate translates to Barack Obama in particular," says Heerwig. The two have presented the work at meetings but not yet published it.

Some analysts argue that racial bias is clearly visible, however. "I think it's already shown up in preference polls," says James Campbell, a political scientist at the University of Buffalo in New York state and the only one of the forecasters to predict that McCain will capture the popular vote. "This should be a very strongly Democratic year," he says, but McCain still has a shot at the White House.

Eric said...

Ken Blackwell is probably my least favorite person in politics. I like Sarah Palin and Dick Cheney more than Ken Blackwell. He's the antichrist!

Juris said...

To add to this, I heard Douglas Wilder interviewed a couple of days ago. He said that HIS internal polls also showed a much closer race than the published polls. Of course, unlike Bradley he won his race, but by a much smaller margin than the published polls though largely in line with his internal polls.

barath said...

I'd also add:

11. Many top-rated pollsters are automated, making voters more likely to express their true preference. (I'd bet that voters are more likely to lie to a human pollster rather than a computer.)

Oliver said...

The real Bradley effect: losers in the 2000 presidential primaries never go on to do anything.

Eric said...

As generations pass, there's less prejudice. Combine that with Obama who is mixed and his father is directly from Kenya and the way he carries himself, if there is a Bradley effect, I think it would be marginal at worst. I also believe that Obama will win a landslide, but in the end we can look back at the numbers and say his race might help more than it hurts.

Rich Merritt said...

And why don't we just start calling it the "Gantt Effect"? I realize Bradley was first, but Gantt suffered from it twice! And let's just do something different, for crying out loud. WAAAAH!
Rich

PS - and instead of posting entire articles...can we just put links??? Pretty please?

Matt said...

Ken Blackwell wrote a book with Jerome Corsi!? Interesting.

bryen193 said...

"To add to this, I heard Douglas Wilder interviewed a couple of days ago. He said that HIS internal polls also showed a much closer race than the published polls. Of course, unlike Bradley he won his race, but by a much smaller margin than the published polls though largely in line with his internal polls."

Judging by the way he's running his campaign, John McCain's internal polls must suggest that John McCain is getting trounced.

Ruth said...

Some researchers are finding a reverse Bradley Effect in the Southeastern US. Try this link: http://www.physorg.com/news142862643.html. Ignore the comments though. There seem to be a lot of crazies on this site.

CA Hawkeye said...

Nate,

Great post. I wish it could get to the MSM. They are repeatedly discussing the Bradley effect as if it is real, still in existence, and large. CNN should interview you!

BTW, hope you're feeling better.

GOBAMA!

Real Joe said...

never underestimate any effect including the Real Joe effect

reelgeist said...

Harold Ford

He polled lower than his eventual outcome in 2006. Yes he lost the race, but by less than the polls said he would lose. He's not a Republican, but he was an extremely conservative Democrat runnning against a moderate/conservative Republican. This was also after, by the way, the attempts of the GOP at the time to use race against Ford (remember the Ford dates white women campaign?). I hate Ford. But, he's illustrative of the fact that if you can't use race in even TN to win based on expecting a Bradley Effect- the likelihood of it occuring in the rest of the country is slim.

RWD said...

"His prediction? Obama is likely to corral 50.1% of the popular vote but lose the election in the electoral college"

So, you run a model with some racial adjustment, based on no hard data, and you come up with an absurd prediction. Seriously, how does he think this is going to happen?

CA Hawkeye said...

BTW, maybe the Bradley effect disappeared in the mid 90s after we elected our first Black President - WJC!

Eric said...

Sarah Palin!

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

DUMBASS TOOL!

James said...

Nate, the link to the Harvard paper doesn't seem to be working. I would like to read it, thanks.

Brian said...

@ eric -> did you see this article about Palin trying to reprimand her dumb supporters today?

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/13/politics/fromtheroad/entry4518952.shtml

Rich Merritt said...

The "Real Joe" effect:

When a McCain supporter begins posting frequently to a liberal-leaning but statistically neutral blog and over time grows to like Obama. Admit it, RJ!
Rich

He said...

As a Marine officer who is currently serving as a combat sniper (Special Ops) in Bagdad, Iraq, I do not want a Muslim terrorist president.

If Hussein Obama is elected, we will all be speaking Muslim = and our school childrens will be forced to salute the Communist flag, and also they will learn muslim practices and how to be homosexual and be anti-Christian.

This proud devil-dog Marine did not fight with great bravery and honor just so you libs can destroy this great Christian country.

In Iraq on my 2nd tour, my special radio operator private first class dyed in my arms, knocked subconsious after a muslim terrorist detonated a bom which hit our Hummvee.

"MAYDAY MAYDAY!" I yelled into the subconscious radio operators radio "BOGYES AT OUR 6 OCLOCK POSITIONS! AFFIRMATIVE! ASSUME THE ATTACK POSITION! OVER AND OUT!"

I then killed many terrorist insurgeants that day with my machine gun, Barack HUSSEIN Obama's Al Qaeda friends, and I won my 2nd bronze medal that day for bravery.

Why must you libs hate our troops so?

JOHN MCCAIN/SARA PALLEN 08!
SARA PALLEN/GENERAL PETRAYUS 12!

synthetoceras said...

Of course, one has to wonder about the real purpose behind pushing any sort of excuse that "explains" why polling and reality don't match...

Perhaps the constant trolling about it is less about people believing in it, and more about ensuring that the meme exists and is well-entrenched.

Eric said...

thene said...
eric - who is the 'Claire' to whom you refer alongside Hillary, Michelle and Jill?

Claire McCaskill. She's a pimp. Claire McCaskill, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and Jennifer Granholm would eat Sarah Palin's lunch. Claire's pimpin' for Obama. I didn't think he'd win Missouri until I saw her become a superstar national pol and the mizzou polls swing heavy to OBama at the same time. Go Claire!

DCM in FL said...

CA HAWKEYE

good analogy about William Jefferson Clinton

I am afraid that WJC may have lost his honorary lifetime membership in the NAACP hall of fame during the primaries - but regardless of the spin made on some of his comments this spring, Bill should still get major credit for his civil rights efforts IMHO

both for blacks & gays too

Obama is much less likely to push agressively on either of these fronts when he is POTUS

Rich Merritt said...

HE
You are not a Marine officer. You've been exposed. You're a toll booth attendant in Ohio. We know that now. Stop impersonating a Marine.

Gerbie said...

Sarah Palin crowd!

We can't hear you!!!! Louder !!!!
Sarah Palin

"I would hope at least that those protesters have the courage and the honor of thanking our veterans for giving them the right to protest!"


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/13/161153/81/55/629470

CA Hawkeye said...

Related to your reason #3 above cocerning the effect of education:

"dagnabit, you mean all that gosh darn multi-cultural teachin' has been corrupting our children."

Jim said...

Reason #4 is a big one. I did some focus groups for the armed services in the 1990s, and found that racial prejudice was strongly diminished, even among former rednecks. They were open about the reasons: (1) heavy-duty indoctrination at boot camp, but more importantly (2) working side-by-side with people of different races and coming to know that you could respect somebody without having to be their buddy. My hunch is that Nate's conjecture about contact in college is accurate, but let's not forget the Army either.

SalP7 said...

Drudge is firing up the "George Wallace" vote with a photo of Obama kissing a blond with the caption "Obama goes door-to-door to drum up votes..."

Bill Maher drew attention to this a couple of weeks ago.

PorridgeGun said...

If anything, the FReeptards and racists shouldn't be pinning their hopes on the Bradley/Wilder Effect, but instead the Ford Effect. Afterall, McCain did hire Terry Nelson, the prick responsible for the "Harold, Call Me!" attack ad, which likely hurt him in the Tennessee senate race.

Gerbie said...

Nice Post

However, look up the freetards, we know exactly what size of the Bradley effect (BE) is;


If (Obama lead in polls < 3%; BE=3%; Else BE = (Obama lead in polls + 3%))

bpt said...

Perhaps habituation is another reason. There have been so many more African-Americans at top levels of so many fields in the last 20 years - politics included.
I suspect, also, that racial discomfort may be related to ethnicity - an "ethnic" black - with an inner-city accent and strong, large physical presence comes across very differently than our beloved trim, Ivy-league, Midwestern accented BHO.
ALso, he's been running for over a year and nothing more exciting than Rev. Wright has turned up.

el ganador said...

Don't forget the number of movies and TV shows that presented a black president as a matter of course....C'mon, who wouldn't support Morgan Freeman as prez, or that dude from 24?

The perception that only a white guy can be prez was reinforced by media narratives that assumed that as a baseline. Everything that presented an alternative (woman, black guy) did so as a means of exploring the nature of our racism and sexism. Then a slew of programming in the 90s and 00s began to show black presidents as a code for "this is your world, but just a smidge into the future"...and so Obama seems like us catching up to what teevee already told us was OK.

I'm only mostly kidding...

DCM in FL said...

SUSA is unreliable this year since some of their polls are all over the place...

but the new GA polling does seem to indicate that GA is trending toward a more competitve race for both POTUS & Senate

Maybe Obama can help martin win even if he does not beat Mac in GA

but the impact of Barr & Nader seems to be underestimated in GA IMHO

also, SUSA does make note of the early voting favoring Obama by 6 [?]

hope that all pollsters start tracking those who have already voted early & by absentee for the balance of the cycle

those banked votes are 'gold' & will make all the difference in at least a few close states - maybe even in GA, but certainly a BIG perceived advantage for Obama here in FL where up to 50% of the voters are expected to cast votes before Nov 4th

DCM in FL said...

MSNBC

Tom Brokaw on Hardball deconstructing the last debate

Jeff said...

I have a new drinking game... How many factual/spelling/grammatical mistakes "he" makes in his posts.

On a serious note... If the "Bradley Effect" actually does have an effect as many of the GOP pundits seem to believe, and actually swings the election to McCain...

What kind of sad statement does that make about our country?

BobEL said...

But there may be something else that's similar to the Bradley Effect. Call it the "Cold Feet Effect".

We know that racism is deeply ingrained in many white folks - not necessarily the blatant "hate" type of racism, but more a more subtle "fear" or "suspicion". This is true especially with older voters.

Imagine, for example, an 80 year old white woman. She won't admit to racial prejudice, but nevertheless is wary of blacks. They have never been part of her social circle. This time around she sees Obama on TV and is impressed with him. She confides to her younger friends, and they assure her that, yes, you can trust him. Her mind is made up. A pollster calls her and she honestly proclaims her intention to vote for Obama.

Then comes election day. In the booth, she ponders and thinks. "This is the real thing, not an opinion poll. I like Obama, but now I am a little afraid. I think I'll play it safe and vote for McCain."

Maybe this effect is insignificant-I hope so. But otherwise would have the same result as the Bradley Effect while having a different cause.

Rasputin said...

Thank you Proud Devil-Dog Marine for serving.
I am sorry you are in harms way and watching your buddies die in the war that was forced upon you by powers that do not care about you. I hope you remain safe, regardless of your distorted, ignorant, and close-minded views.

newsfromOH said...

Then there's the idiot with the monkey in PA . . .

But if you haven't seen the follow-up video, after network news cameras spotted him, you just must:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXOLCR9FHvs


I just don't see people like this having the "sense" enough to misrepresent . . . although it's actually good to see that this tool had just a tad of embarrassment left in him.

CA Hawkeye said...

@ DCM in FL:

I agree, WJC has lost a lot of stature in many people's eyes including my own. Really too bad. He showed just how petty he can be. Hopefully, WJC can redeem himself. Hillary lost because she ran an awful campaign, and JM is repeating it. She looked physically terrible at the rally in PA yesterday.

As for He...go away.

Pot Kettle Black said...

He said:
"Why must you libs hate our troops so?

JOHN MCCAIN/SARA PALLEN 08!
SARA PALLEN/GENERAL PETRAYUS 12!"
I assume this is a joke, but let's work like it isn't.

I don't hate our troops. I hate our foreign policy that puts our troops needlessly at risk. What is real hatred of our troops? Putting you in harm's way needlessly and not supporting you when you return, or seeking to only send you out when there are real enemies who need your services? I think the latter.

PS- thanks for my latest misappropriate of a name.
We have McShame and McSame and McInsane.
We have Sarah Failin.
Now we have General Betrayus.
Thanks.

Mule Rider said...

I think BobEL hit the nail on the head...a "Cold Feed" Effect.

I suspect it will show up but in a very small quantity, maybe shifting the electorate as much as 0.5%...but no more.

haiweiad said...

The link to the Hopkins paper doesn't seem to work. Presumably it only looks at general elections, as the effect would be expected to be different for those than for primaries?

What is the name for the effect where white and asian voters gradually get used to the idea of voting for a black candidate? I've seen many of my relatives make this transition over the last 9 months. Seems to take 8-10 weeks...

Dave C said...

IMO, it is mostly the #4 point.

For whatever reason, people 20+ years ago thought they had to "lie" to pollsters about who they were going to vote for, because they thought they might be asked why they are going to vote that way.

I think most people, even if they are voting against Obama because they are racist, assume now that the only question that is going to be asked is "Who are you voting for?" and not Why, and even if they ask why, they'll just give some other reason other than "I don't like black people".

Which means, also IMO, the polls are already reflecting the fact of any racists voting against Obama, and he is still leading by 6-8 points. I think Obama negates the "racist" vote with the "novelty" vote anyway (people who would otherwise also be "on the fence" between the two candidates, but, look to voting for a minority candidate as a positive/interesting thing, the opposite of the racist supposition).

bryen193 said...

"I have a new drinking game... How many factual/spelling/grammatical mistakes "he" makes in his posts."

Stop making fun of our troops' spelling! "He" suffered a minor brain trauma battling "gorillas" so that we might remain free...

Shap said...

Hi,

This is a good website, but I wish you weren't so clearly in the tank for the Democratic candidate.

I was just wondering, have you considered the fact that many voters will tell pollsters that they would vote for Obama (the black candidate) but then change their vote in the privacy of the voting booth on election day?

Do you figure this type of situation in your statistics? I am curious.

I believe this happened once in the past, in a large city's mayoral election. In fact, the results of the situation may still be named for the black mayor who lost, I think is name was Barkley or something...

Anyways, sorry for posting off-topic, but I am concerned that you may have overlooked this in your analysis.

Thank you,
Shap :)

Mule Rider said...

read: Feet

Rich Merritt said...

Rasputin:
HE is neither a Marine nor an officer. Officers aren't snipers and they have to have at least a bachelors degree from an accredited college, so you'd hope HE could spell. No, HE is McCain's chief strategist, sent here to damepn our spirits and scare us. Actually HE might even be McCain, learning how to use the blogspot.

seth said...

Actually I believe a Bradley effect definately does exist and will be present on election day. I was canvassing in PA this week end and met many folks who were "undecided" but actually were just too bigoted to vote for Obama. One woman went on for 20 minutes about how much she hates republicans and bush and Palin and likes what Obama has to say - but she is undecided. She will vote republican, if she votes.

I would say that 2/3 of the white undecideds at this point are just folks unwilling to confront their own racism. That said, I think the unbelievablely one sided ground game will juice Obama's numbers substantially over what the polls predict. It will be hard to tease out these counter balancing effects after the fact.

Right Wing Conspiricist said...

Wait for the RASMUSSEN POLLS tonight that will show a HALT to Obama's rising poll numbers and the beginning of a MCCAIN SURGE!!

Rasmussen is the TRUE and ACCURATE pollster in this race!

CA Hawkeye said...

Shap,

Try reading the article before you post.

ozzie said...

If Obama outperforms the polls as he did in many primary states, then can we call it the "McCain Effect" instead of the Reverse-Bradley Effect?

eve said...

HE is still in high school. Or possibly middle school. And not making very good grades. What he knows about the military he gets from movies, video games, and comic books.

PorridgeGun said...

SalP7 said...

Drudge is firing up the "George Wallace" vote with a photo of Obama kissing a blond with the caption "Obama goes door-to-door to drum up votes..."



Republicans are so predictable. But what if it were a brunette Obama gave a peck to? Would their whole line of racist attack be fucked?

Eliot said...

Another likely explanation for the absence of any Bradley effect in this election: social psychological research shows that people withhold or conceal racially motivated opinions or behaviors only when there is no plausible nonracial reason that they can cite.

Someone who doesn't want to support Obama for racial reasons has plenty of plausible nonracial reasons that he/she could use to justify this position -- McCain was a POW, he is more experienced, etc., etc. So there is little likelihood that such a voter will conceal his opinion; he will be open about his support for McCain over Obama. Hence, no Bradley effect (defined as a difference between poll support and actual Election Day support).

Rich Merritt said...

Seth:
UUGGGHHH!! What you wrote just completely DISPROVES the Bradley effect! People, please for the love of God understand what this is so we can give it up like McCain gave up his campaign for a day or two. If a voter tells you they are undecided, then they are not part of the BE. !!!!

Sharp. You are too hilarious. Love the dry wit. Tell me tho you are a dem please, I don't think reps can be that humorous.
xo
Rich

DCM in FL said...

BOBEL

those folks are already 'persuadable'here in FL

they have come to the conclusion I have discovered that they can safely rationalize their prejudiced views & vote for Obama because:

- now the polls & MSM in FL are confirming to them that their friends & neighbors are cool with Obama, so everyone is doing it...

- he has such a nice message & a fine family especially compared to Mccain & Palin

- Biden provides a HUGE safety net since he is so white, experienced & balances the ticket

- but mostly, I hear over & over here that they are now OK with voting for Obama because "his mother was white, he was raised by his white grannie from Kansas, and after all - Obama is 1/2 white and only 1/2 black...

trust me on this, that sort of rationalization can make all the difference this year

FL is going BLUE !!! I was very skeptical until the entire narrative here changed in the last 3 weeks or so...

FL Crackers are now supporting Obama

Eric said...

Right Wing Conspiricist said...
Wait for the RASMUSSEN POLLS tonight that will show a HALT to Obama's rising poll numbers and the beginning of a MCCAIN SURGE!!

Rasmussen is the TRUE and ACCURATE pollster in this race!


This rising tide has floated all boats from coast to coast and virtually everyhwere in the middle.
The only exception is 5-10 hardcore red states. All other red states are pink, pink are purple, purple are light blue, light blue are blue. Across the board Obama has gained 5-10 points in almost every state. With these exceptions: Utah, Oklahoma.

Shap said...

Right Wing Conspiricist said...
Rasmussen is the TRUE and ACCURATE pollster in this race!


This was the Top Story on Rasmussen's website:

55% Expect Obama Victory, Only 15% Believe McCain Will Win

My friends, that's not change we can believe in!

TSG said...

The Bradley effect still exists, but is smaller because in the national races it is easier to claim other reasons to dislike a candidate. Then there is the 'reverse Bradley effect'. This will be in the Red states mostly, but also in the battleground states.

Daniel said...

Nate,

Great post, but you've got to correct one extremely important error:

Tarrance was Deukjemian's pollster in the 1982 California gubernatorial race, not Bradley's pollster

SalP7 said...

Yep, the Faux/Rasmussen polls are the Fool's Gold Standard.

Seriously, is the House Factor for the Faux/Rasmussen polls the same as the Rasmussen polls?

Shawna said...

At the risk of treading into Biden gaffe territory, I think there's another factor here in Obama's favor that isn't getting much play: He doesn't fit the stereotypes.

He has a flat West Coast accent, for one (slightly tinged with Chicago, but not much.) He doesn't have the religious background of Jackson or Sharpton or even King. He talks like a newscaster, not a preacher.

While educated and intelligent people don't assign value judgments based on such nebulous characteristics, those things nonetheless do have a subconscious effect on some voters, who are used to seeing a particular kind of black politician--one who comes from a Dr. King mold, rather than one whose cultural roots are almost entirely outside of that.

It isn't that Obama is "articulate" and other black folks aren't. And it isn't that he "seems white," either. It's just that he comes from a different cultural tradition than many prominent black politicians and thus he stands out from that crowd.

I personally think it's criminal that so many people have dismissed many strong, capable black leaders because of stereotypes, but I also think it's worth noting that Obama just doesn't fit those. Yes, he's black. Yes, he owns that and is proud to represent that part of his background. But he's a different kind of black leader than what we're used to, and that's making him stand out in a way that others who have gone before him may not have been able to.

These things don't make him a better leader or a better person than other black leaders. He's just different. And different makes people pay attention.

Tina said...

I still can't think of a reason a rascist would say they are voting for Obama to be PC. They could just honestly say they are voting for McCain w/o any repercussions (even in the most liberal bastions in the nation).

Shap said...

ca hawkeye-

when I end a post with ' :) ' it means I'm being facetious.

:)

Christopher said...

Shap:

This sentence is a lie.

Christopher said...

Point taken, though. ;)

eve said...

As much as I appreciate Nate trying to deal with the Bradley nonsense with real information, I hope we have no more posts about it. I'm sick of it because people won't even read enough to know what it refers to much less to know whether it has ever even existed.

Too many people refuse to even read the data about it.

Just go vote and quit worrying about a non-problem.

CA Hawkeye said...

Shap,

Sorry, I didn't catch it.

I am multi-tasking - applying for jobs while posting.

musicman said...

Obama eclipses 50% for the first time in RCP national averages.

Rasmussen has an interesting poll out today...47% support Obama's tax plan, 31% oppose. Fox News and Drudge are having a field day going after Obama's tax plan (They are showing that plumber who Obama said it's time to spread the wealth around to)...what they don't realize is that the American people support it.

bryen193 said...

"Another likely explanation for the absence of any Bradley effect in this election: social psychological research shows that people withhold or conceal racially motivated opinions or behaviors only when there is no plausible nonracial reason that they can cite."

The theme Obama is a "socialist" is commonly expressed, but poorly hidden way of expressing a racial preference in this election season. There is an excellent article on it at the American Prospect today.

Matt said...

Aren't quite a few of these pollsters robo-calling? Why would someone lie to a pre-recorded message?

Rich Merritt said...

ShapDawg, some of us got it. This site is great but some here need to visit getafrigginsenseofhumoralready.com

Shap said...

This sentence is a lie.

Everything I write here is false. Otherwise, I wouldn't exist!

Eric said...

For people like that 60 something yr old ignorant white woman at the Minnesota town-hall I"d like to see this:

Sometime in 2010, President Barack Obama went by Barry until college. He was born Barack Hussein Obama though and decided that, as a man, he should go by his given name. Now, as President of the United States, and in his 40s, in part ot elevate thep eace process at least in perception, he'd like to hearken back to his grandfather (Hussein) and would like to now be referred to as President Hussein Obama or just President Hussein if you like.

Haha! Ignorant filthy Americans! Ok, ok I'm just kidding!

eve said...

shawna

you went way over into gaffe territory

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen

Florida
O-51
M-46

More as they come...

Brother Wolf said...

We can't forget the "five thirty eight effect" where large groups of Obama supporters spend there time hopeless addicted to watching their candidates polling numbers instead of working to elect their candidate. Must be worth at least 2% of Obama's potential win -- Arm Chair warriors are we all?

More Shameless Marketing of vaguely related links

CA Hawkeye said...

I lie, therefore I am. Sounds like the McSame-Failin' campaign slogan.

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen

Missouri
O-50
M-47

Developing...

PorridgeGun said...

Oh yeah, and RCP sucks balls.

Real Joe said...

???????????????

DCM in FL said...

SHAWNA

actually, Obama has been getting speech coaching for years now, which is why he can deliver such a rousing message using a teleprompter script

back before his big break at the 2004 DNC, he was not a good orator - but he realized that limited his effectiveness [insert ambitions if desired] and he put his head into playing a stronger pol game...

I personally find that Obama uses a type of lazy north/central southern drawl in his speeches to try to sound 'familiar' to as many people as possible rather than speaking in his normal clipped 'elite' speech pattern

it is extremely effective apparently, and he learned well how to use classic call & response, cadence, inflection & lots of other effective speech 'tricks' to deliver his messages

however, since he never lived in the south, his affectation of a southern draaaaawl sorta bugs me sometimes

but he is an orator of note & manages to connect on a personal level IMHO

now waiting for the RR releases any moment...

markedman said...

excellent news about Florida

on pins and needles for the rest of them

@Brother Wolf, well said except I have donated as much money as I can and don't live near anywhere remotely resembling a battleground

Matt said...

Wow, BHO ahead in MO according to Ras?! Fantastic!

Robert said...

Shawna:

I agree with your thinking. Remeber in the beginning when blacks where against him because he wasn't "black enough"? At least that's what media wanted to state...

Me? I think he's a generation shift in politics. He's of my generation instead of my parents. He uses things I take for granted for great effect. And his opposition is not only of my parents generation but older.

It will be refreshing with this nerd in the white house!

Antmatic said...

By the way, I get these early by signing on to my premium account and directly putting in the "crosstabs" html with an October 12 date (it's easy to figure out out Rasmussen names his web pages).

GaMeS said...

Nate, I think #6 is the one that comes closest to the true cause:


Poll questionnaires -- just like psychological testing questionnaires -- have become substantially more sophisticated in the last two decades, and more sophisticated sampling and analytical techniques now exist to ensure the acquisition of better data and the production of more valid conclusions.


First, the advent of cheap, affordable computers to do statistical analysis made it much, much easier to evaluate much more complex questionnaires than in the 80's and earlier.

Specifically, one of the most critical tests is to determine if a particular question is, itself, biased in some way that doesn't match the rest of the test, or if a question only has discriminative power for a subset of respondents. These days, that's a simple push-button report, allowing you to drop suspect questions or reevaluate their phrasing. Back then, though, that was very labor intensive.

Now, add in the additional variables of slight differences in language, word choice, etc., that have caused standardized tests to provide inaccurate results across ethnic lines. Today, this is relatively correctable, but back then, it was hardly even recognized to be a problem. (People had the bad habit of reading such results at face value rather than challenging the validity of the measure; e.g. The Bell Jar.)

This certainly match the observation that internal polling -- which would tend to be less standardized and more tailored to a particular need -- was apparently less susceptible to this effect.

Finally, in addition to the questionnaire becoming more reliable, other statistical techniques made it possible to have more carefully tuned polls (e.g. stratified cluster samples, multivariate regressions to weight voter characteristics, etc.). Imagine how far off your sample could drift if you only stratified based on one or two characteristics (e.g. age, income) while ignoring others (e.g. ethnicity, education, ideological self-identification, etc.).



All told, I've long been of the opinion that the Bradley Effect may very well have never really existed in a meaningful form. I think that measurement error -- both in terms of sampling and the questionnaire itself -- it largely at fault, and this would help explain why this "effect," in the brief period that it seems to have existed, was never remotely consistent.

Mule Rider said...

Bradley Effect is essentially non-existent. It won't show up on election day.

If Obama carries a 5 pt or more lead going into Nov. 4th and still loses, that won't mean it (Bradley Effect) actually exists. It just means polltakers around the country are incredibly flawed and need to overhaul their entire strategy and methodology before the election cycle.

Antmatic said...

Rasmussen
Virginia
O-50
M-47

Developing...

markedman said...

That IS fantastic results for MO

especially coming from RAS

really curious about their Ohio numbers. What did Ras have for MO before?

Allen said...

Ras is out:

VA - O 53 M 47
OH O 49 M 47
FL O 51 M 46
MO O 50 M 47
NC 48 48

markedman said...

tightening in VA

that's not a number i'm thrilled by

but better he's ahead then not

Mule Rider said...

"next" election cycle.

Rasputin said...

Rich Merrit:
You are probably right -- except for the speculation that McCain might have learned to turn on a computer!!!!
:)

Adrian said...

The problem isn't that people would lie, it is that the same people who would vote against a black man based on race are more likely to just hang-up on the polling bot.

And as much as everyone here seems to think that the Bradley effect is done and dusted, there are serious political scientists who believe it is still alive and they have reasonable data for their models.

There will be hidden effects in this election that will only come out with the results. Most likely these will tend to favour Obama, but in some regions they may favour McCain.

markedman said...

Whoa! He's FINALLY AHEAD IN OHIO from RAS

FINALLY

was hoping for more from NC

OOH, I didn't see VA is 53/47? Or 50/47

hoping it's 53 and Antmatic was wrong

newsfromOH said...

My grandmother is a great example of the changes that have occurred. Her reflex is racist. Immediate suspicion of black people. But, to her credit, it truly seems to be some deeply ingrained thing that doesn't represent her true feelings. One on one, she's absolutely fine and, in fact, will tell me about a conversation she had never mentioning that the other person was black.

She's been taking on her 80 something friends who are more racist. She voted early and voted for Obama--despises Palin with a passion and thinks McCain's "too damn old!!!!!"

Twenty years ago, she might have been swayed by a Bradley effect. Today, she wants to hit McCain supporters with her cane. She's trying to plot how to deface one of her neighbor's McCain signs . . .not like she can make a speedy get-away.

DCM in FL said...

ERIC

at first when you referred to our dear Claire M as a pimp I was offended

but then you made it clear that it was a term of endearment - and I could not agree more with you !

what was that Oscar winning song last year 'Good to be a Pimp' or whatever ?

Claire will help Obama win the 'show me' state in 2008 & she has a bright future in an Obama administration

GO Claire - take that Mule Head

Eric said...

BLOWOUT!

McCaskill has delivered Mizzou for Obama. Virginia +6. Thems some tast apples! Booyah skeedaddy! Florida +5, hoorah

Matt said...

Excellent numbers, especially considering how Obama has done in the past in Ohio Ras polls. Very few undecideds left from the look of it.

Andrew said...

VA is 50-47

From Scotty's write-up

The national results indicate that Obama is running eight or nine points better than John Kerry did four year ago. The state polling released this week generally shows Obama doing eight or nine points better than Kerry as well.

sfergus483 said...

Adrian - are you Canadian? (favour) - if so, happy Thanksgiving - any guess on your elections tomorrow?

Robert said...

Games:

Thanks for an insightful post

Antmatic said...

Huge news in Ohio. Rasmussen was the last holdout there.

Ras has shown a close race in Virginia all year. To be honest I think PPP has a better grasp on that state.

NC movement is within MOE. Remember, NC voters are already voting.

Daniel said...

State
Cand.
Total
GOP
Dem
Other

FL
Obama
51%
11%
87%
56%

McCain
46%
87%
10%
37%


MO
Obama
50%
8%
91%
48%

McCain
47%
92%
7%
47%


NC
Obama
48%
10%
82%
46%

McCain
48%
85%
16%
49%


OH
Obama
49%
12%
84%
49%

McCain
47%
86%
15%
42%


VA
Obama
50%
6%
91%
48%

McCain
47%
91%
7%
48%

Eric said...

"It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp"

Claire is an O.G. though. She from way back. She more O.G. then Barack even. She mos def a PIMP

MysticLaker said...

The only notable change in the horse race results this week come from Ohio where Obama is now on top, 49% to 47%. For each of the previous two weeks, McCain was up by a point in the Buckeye State after enjoying larger leads earlier this fall. The race for Ohio’s 20 Electoral College votes is now well within the margin of sampling error but trending towards the Democrat.

In Virginia, a state that no Democrat has won since 1964, Obama earns 50% support for the third straight week while McCain is at 47%. Those results are essentially unchanged from each of the past two weeks.

In Florida, it’s Obama 51%, McCain 46%. That’s a bit closer than last week when Obama enjoyed a seven-percentage point lead. But, as recently as mid-September, McCain had been leading by five. This is the second straight week that Obama has been over the 50% mark in Florida. McCain has not topped 47% in any of the last three Florida Fox News/Rasmussen Reports polls.

In Missouri, the results are unchanged from a week ago—Obama 50%, McCain 47%. A month ago, before Wall Street’s financial problems became visible on Main Street, McCain was up by five points in Missouri.

The first Fox News/Rasmussen Reports poll in North Carolina finds a tie in the Tar Heel State. Both McCain and Obama earn 48% of the vote. These numbers represent a very slight improvement for McCain compared to earlier Rasmussen Reports polling in North Carolina but the fact that the race is even competitive in this southern state signals trouble for McCain.

Andrew said...

@markedman

Ras's last number in VA (10/5) was O 50 - M 48.

So no "tightening" there.

Adrian said...

sfergus483: not Canadian, an Australian living in Seattle. But thank you for the good wishes anyway :)

T-Bone said...

Well, Bradley was running for Gov of California, so I thought perhaps there were racist Democrats who were expected obviously to vote democratic. Racist independents or Republicans obviously wouldn't have that dilemma.

Also, I don't know exactly what happened in the primaries, but I heard Obama over-performed in southern states. I thought perhaps there were racist areas where you would be pressured to say you'd vote against the black guy, even if you weren't racist.

Alternatively, maybe some blacks did not want to seem to be voting for the black guy because it might appear as if that were the sole reason they would vote that way. They might have wanted to appear even-handed, perhaps especially black women who might have felt voting against a woman for a black man would appear particularly racist.

seth said...

Rich,

If your argument is that the Bradley effect is folks saying they will vote for Obama but really voting for Mccain, then your right - but if you read the PEW piece, in all of the elections where it has been seen the Black candidate got pretty much the vote percentage expected but the white candidate got almost 100% of the undecided voters. Folks who want to vote democratic, but are bigots and cant admit it, are conflicted and "undecided" now. In many past elections, their bigotry won over their economic interests in the voting booth. at least in PA, I think that will happen again.

michiganmaine said...

VA is 50-47

All of this is just fine.

Redshift said...

CA Hawkeye:
Shap,

Sorry, I didn't catch it.


It was pretty deadpan; I almost missed the smiley myself.

Good one, Shap!

CA Hawkeye said...

As was posted in a previous thread, I think there is also the "Blazing Saddles" effect. When the town is going down the crapper, people will turn to whomever will actually help - be it the "ni**ers, jews, and darnit we'll even take the Irish."
:)

Antmatic said...

VA is 50%. Obama has been at 50% in the last 4 Rasmussen VA polls; he's not gonna do that much better with this pollster. McCain's numbers fluctuate from 45% to 48% in Rasmussen's VA polls.

Again, 50% is not too much different than what SurveyUSA and PPP are reporting, it's McCain's numbers that change, and lets be honest, McCain will get closer to 47% in VA than 43%.

beach said...

There could just as easily be a Reverse Bradley Effect.

There may be many people uncomfortable with publicly saying that they are voting for Obama, but in the privacy of the voting booth, they do.

I don't see any reason why this idea is any less viable than the traditional "bradley effect."

Mule Rider said...

DCM,

I've got you covered in just about every area of life.

Mocking me does you a complete disservice.

Eric said...

NC
Obama
48%
10%
82%
46%

McCain
48%
85%
16%
49%


OH
Obama
49%
12%
84%
49%

McCain
47%
86%
15%
42%


I don't think the numbers above add up. bottmline, I think there are more Dems as a % than are being polled by Ras in those two polls.

DCM in FL said...

say what ?

all of those RR results are excellent for Obama

remember these are from Scottie R who has a strong GOPer 'house effect'

especially FL & VA - both well above the MOE

FL is going BLUE, the election is over when the polls close on Nov 4th

with a lead here now, Obama is banking a nice big cushion...

the other states are gravy !!!

where does Mac make a stand on defense with that many RED states turning & staying blue ???

markedman said...

@andrew

Thanks!

I got worried as I've been used to seeing +5-8 for VA lately for Obama

thanks for putting it in perspective

:)

Christopher said...

I just can't imagine Joe Six-Pack walking into an anonymous voting booth and knowing one candidate is better for his pocketbook and voting against him because he doesn't like blacks. Not in the 21st century. And I cannot imagine him telling a pollster that he WOULD vote for said black man days earlier.

sfergus483 said...

Adrian -
It is always interesting to seeing non-Americans (often not living here) who know far more about our politics than many of our own citizens.

And belated congrats on kicking out John Howard last year finally.

Matt said...

Will be interested to see the PPP results tomorrow from MO and NC in the context of these Ras polls.

Les said...

Nate Silver's analyses are always compelling, thoughtful, and provocative. However, while even evidence from the Democratic primary season suggests that the Bradley Effect, indeed, may have largely dissipated, there is the Reverse Bradley Effect where Obama overperformed his poll results at the ballot box. This, I believe, matters in the upcoming election and it does raise questions about how well pollsters do on these issues and with African-American voters, in particular.

Hopkins may indeed be correct as well as the more complex manifestation demonstrated by Anthony Greenwald and Bethany Albertson of the University of Washington (where among 32 primary states, the reverse Bradley Effect showed up statistically significant in 13 states and the Bradley Effect, albeit at a much lower comparative magnitude, appeared in 3 states).

Hopkins' widely circulated paper has received a great deal of attention in blogs and in media. Keep in mind, though, the PDF version being circulated is a pre-print version. That is, journal editors considering his submission may ask for further statistical tests and calculations of rigors to validate his conclusions.

From a position of research responsibility, however, we should not yet lay conclusively to rest this question as we have the first presidential election in which this question truly matters. Do the results of state-level races that have largely comprised the research literature translate the implications of their conclusions to the national level? This is not dealing with racism per se as it is reflected in the traditional definition of the Bradley Effect but I do believe we do need to consider these questions of polling effects in this historic presidential election. Hopkins, I believe, though considers that extrapolation from his work can be justifiably applied here as well.

In particular, I am curious about a handful of southern states, most particularly Georgia. The analysis of Greenwald and Albertson shows that Obama overperformed the polls in Georgia's primary by 18% (a state with a large African-American population). The researchers set the benchmark for identifying the effect at a prediction error of 7%, well outside the MOE of any poll.

While most pollsters consider Georgia safe McCain territory (a margin of 8-15%, depending on the day and the poll), I'm intrigued by the prospect that Obama -- whose momentum is solidifying in virtually every region of the country -- will surprise the pundits and pollsters and take Georgia, perhaps by as much as 7%. Of course, that question might be moot as Election Day approaches and Obama moves ahead or stays within the MOE in a GA poll.

Vanessa said...

I think of these results, the Ohio poll is the most attractive.

markedman said...

who is more accurate, PPP or Ras?

Shawna said...

Eve: I figured that might happen.

I stand behind it, though. Truth is, Obama IS different from Jackson/Sharpton, etc.

In terms of leadership skills, he's not more qualified just because he doesn't come from a Southern religious tradition. But in terms of public perception, the difference does make him stand out from that crowd.

If you want, you can take race out of the picture, and compare it a different way:

Imagine that most of the Southern politicians we've seen come from a specific kind of tradition: They're Baptist, social conservatives, talk folksy, etc.

Now imagine we have a politician from, oh, Arkansas who's Methodist, went to Oxford, socially moderate and has little to no Southern accent.

Chances are pretty good that people outside of the South are going to pay more attention to that candidate than they might otherwise have.

Welcome to President William J. Clinton.

Obama is to the tradition of black politicians what Clinton was to the tradition of Southern ones.

Heck, one could actually argue that Palin has some of this going for her, too. It's rare to see a young, particularly feminine conservative woman on the national stage, and that's gotten her more attention than she might otherwise have earned if she were liberal, older or didn't doll herself up the way she does.

Again, this isn't a value judgment. It's just noting part of the reason why Obama's gotten a lot more attention than those who have come before him. Different gets people's attention, and that makes him a lot harder for people to write off.

tomthress said...

"but if you read the PEW piece, in all of the elections where it has been seen the Black candidate got pretty much the vote percentage expected but the white candidate got almost 100% of the undecided voters. Folks who want to vote democratic, but are bigots and cant admit it, are conflicted and "undecided" now. In many past elections, their bigotry won over their economic interests in the voting booth. at least in PA, I think that will happen again."

I don't really expect to see a "Bradley Effect" (although I'm sure somebody will point to every state where Obama underperforms his pre-election polling average, even if there are only 2 or 3 such states, and call it "teh Bradley Affect!!"), but we're to the point where it doesn't matter. Look to the right here - Obama's over 50% in PA, CO, VA, and (barely) FL. He can lose ALL of the undecideds in all of those states and he's still the next President of the United States.

Adrian said...

sfergus483: It took us far too long to get rid of Howard, and we'll carry the shame for years that we were willing to overlook his disgraceful behaviour in return for a bribe every three years.

Now it is your turn to experience the fun of chucking of right-wing nutjobs :)

niedda said...

JUST OUT


USA Today / Gallup
"Over the weekend"; 1,269 adults, from a sneak-peak blog post from the USAToday OnPolitics.
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews

National

Registered Voters
Obama 51, McCain 44
(9/27-29: Obama 49, McCain 45

Likely Voters
"A measure that takes into account the individuals' past voting histories."
Obama 50, McCain 46

"A measure of 'likely' voters that does not take into account the individuals' past voting histories, and instead focuses solely on their 'current voting intentions.'"
Obama 52, McCain 45

DCM in FL said...

ERIC

damm straight. I am down wit dat... lol

Maab said...
This post has been removed by the author.
SalP7 said...

And poor Scotty Rasmussen probably has to go and explain the results to Hannity tonight. Set your tivo.

Maab said...

Unbelievable.

McCain Claims that Obama Supporters Call him "Terrorist" As Well.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ND9DKa8TXwk

David Fox said...

Reverse Bradley Effect = African Americans who say they will vote for Barack Obama but then don't? Who say they won't but then do?

Akoolromeo said...

I don't think the undecided voters is where the Bradley effect is hiding. It sounds like something believe it may be hiding in the Obama's numbers. The theory is that people are telling pollsters they are voting for Obama, when they really aren't, because they don't want the pollsters to think they are racists, if they tell them they are voting for McCain. Those people aren't undecided, they already told the pollsters who they claim they are voting for. (Something I don't get, because I wouldn't assume someone is a racist, just because they are voting for McCain) If that is the case, then if the Bradley effect was still true, Obama's numbers would be inflated. I hope there isn't any, but I think it would behoove Obama to try and get a 10 point lead by election day, just in case.

markedman said...

HAHAHA

FLORIDA IS LIGHT BLUE ON RCP


O___o


HAHA

yes!

tomthress said...

"I don't think the undecided voters is where the Bradley effect is hiding. It sounds like something believe it may be hiding in the Obama's numbers."

I could be wrong, but I think the historical "evidence" such as it is, is tied to "undecideds". That is, I think Bradley and Wilder ended up getting a similar vote % to what they were polling but undecideds broke very strongly toward their opponents - e.g., Wilder might have been leading in pre-election polling 50-35 (+15) but ended up winning 51-49 or something like that.

oct said...

Florida is now leaning Obama

Shawna said...

It will be refreshing with this nerd in the white house!

I completely agree. That's 80% of my reason for voting for him.

I've gotten so ridiculously tired of willful ignorance being seen as a virtue, and success achieved through education seen as being a character flaw.

I WANT my president to be a geeky constitution scholar who got into Harvard on his own merits.

And honestly, I wish more working class folks would understand that he's so, so much better for them than the people who are pandering to them with fear of terrorists and gays and abortion (oh, my!)

Not because he's condescending or paternalistic to the working class, but because he wants to remove the barriers to their success by reining in how corporations are exploiting their labor.

He doesn't want to set up a bunch of insulting handouts. He just wants to get greedy execs out of the way of the average working stiff making what he's really worth. That's a faith and belief in the working class that McFailin has never, ever shown.

Congratulations to President-Elect Obama!!! said...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Florida now lean dem

New projection:
Obama 304
McCain 158
Toss-Up 76

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

I think that the "Tiger Woods Effect" effect is going to be far more important than the "Bradley Effect". Tiger has made it OK for white men, who wear funny colored pants, to vote for an African American.

Mike said...

@David Fox

Reverse Bradley Effect = white voters who outwardly claim support for McCain but will secretly vote for Obama.

Subterranean said...

Wow, the LA Times reports that Obama is getting nearly 3x as much support from independent ad campaigns: $15.8M to $5.4M since Labor Day.

Didn't realize that.

Uplifting polls today, very nice to see Florida staying blue.

Simon said...

david fox: reverse bradley effect = white people saying they'll vote for McCain, especially in the south, (presumably because they think their friends will see them in a different light if they vote for the "black guy"), and then voting for Obama.

Subterranean said...

nam vet -

Wow, that would be a super interesting effect to study. But yeah, Tiger is an absolute god. Pretty hard to hate on that.

Robert said...

Shawna:

Amen! Let put the best nerds into power. I see Obama similar to Nate. A nerd that is very good at what he does. Sure he migth have some quirks but he still does a damn good job!

After having average people and cronyism for the last 8 years without anything to show for it let's try something else.

musicman said...

Why no Colorado from Rasmussen? On election night, if the east coast goes bad for Obama(VA, NC, FL and even OH), Colorado might be the one that turns it for him. Colorado might be Obama's best fail safe. All summer and early fall, Obama has been polling better in CO than the rest of them.

oct said...

Inverse Bradley Effect

The number of times Repubs mention the effect diminishes its impact by 1/iBE where 'i' is the Bradley effect imaginary number.

Mazza said...

Has early voting started in any of these swing states yet? The more votes Obama can bank at this time, the better. That would be a nice insurance policy.

phaedruscj said...

BUt can Obama keep Vera Baker locked up until after the election?

tomthress said...

"Why no Colorado from Rasmussen?"

I think you answer your own question: "All summer and early fall, Obama has been polling better in CO than the rest of them."

To me, the most obvious sign of how dramatically the race has shifted to Obama is in Rasmussen's list of swing states. I think their first set of "swing states" after the Rep convention included Colorado, New Mexico, and Pennsylvania. Those states are no longer "battlegrounds" because they're all safe Obama wins. Instead, the close states are the next tier - North Carolina, Missouri, and Florida.

Subterranean said...

Christopher Hitchens takes a sledgehammer to the GOP ticket, and then endorses Obama as an afterthought. ("Vote for Obama. McCain lacks the character and temperament to be president. And Palin is simply a disgrace.")

gillers said...

I just had to leave a comment ... you point out in reason #3 that55% of the population had a college education in 1980, opposed to 74% by 2004. That's frightening to me, considering how I feel today's "educated" population seems so incredibly dumbed down. I love my pop culture too, but not to the exclusion of "traditional" educational values. Just because you've gone to college doesn't mean you're any smarter....

Ellen said...

I'm not about to believe the Bradley Effect has died, even if Nate and Sean say it has. As others have posted, there are plenty of social scientists who say it isn't dead.

I don't think that the presidential nature of this election means we have to throw out the data from gubernatorial, primary, and senate elections. Presidents are elected state-by-state, through the electoral college. So having past elections simply allows us to examine the potential Bradley or Reverse Bradley effects state-by-state, and compare them to the state polls. That makes more sense to me than trying to examine the aggregate national polls.

Dr. Killjoy said...

Whatever happened to the Dewey Effect? You know, the theory that voters would lie to pollsters but, ultimately, would vote against the guy with the greased hair and the pencil moustache?

Okay, I don't think that theory ever really existed. However, I think the root causes for both theories are identical: bad polling, bad polling, bad polling.

DCM in FL said...

most of the people spouting off about Tom Bradley's 'legacy' in the 1982 governor's race in CA really do not know what they are talking about

revisionist history or too young or relying upon anecdotal evidence drawing faulty conclusions...

I lived in SoCal for over 20 years, even while Bradley was mayor of LA

- Bradley did not lose because he was 'black' IMHO & having been there

- Bradley lost because he was perceived as a liberal DEM from SoCal who just happenned to be black

- no other DEM candidate would have made the race even close, so he probably over-performed in fact

- yes, the polls on election eve predicted his win, but it was a close race in which he had been behind.

- many absentee ballots were banked in advance in CA then & now, and they strongly favored the GOPer George D [the Duke] from northern CA, central valley

- more than race [Duje was armenian], the difference was most likely the entire N / S divide in CA

- especially in the 80's & 90's, the state of CA was divisively antagonistic between Northerners [even of the same party] and SoCals

- in fact, there was a rather strong movement afoot for the Northern CA to split/secede from SoCal [look it up], and that trumped partisanship for enough people to make a difference

- don't believe me ? research the difference in voting patterns of NoCal vs SoCal

- the slights are much less now as evidenced by both CA senators being NoCal/bay area female DEMs

- yes, there is animosity in CA between black & hispanic & asian blocs as well & that also did not help Bradley

- but it was not a white/black racial divide in CA that cost Bradley the win

much more complicated than that, but the easy thing to do was to blame white voters for lying to the exit pollsters when there is no hard evidence they really did

to his credit, Tom Bradley was a man of great dignity & honor & did not make a fuss

check out the real history of CA voting patterns in the 80's before you postulate or repeat faulty revised 'facts'

FWIW - McCain would have a better chance to knock Obama down a few pegs by pushing harder & louder on the 'typical Chicago Pol' meme tahn trying to stoke racial or terrorists subtext.

anti-Chicago politics as a message & tied to business as usual in DC does carry a far greater chance of penetrating the electorate in 2008 based on historical memories for the public IMHO

but then I do not want to be accused of lending a strategic advantage to the GOPers...

Sean said...

Where's Right Wing ConspIrIcIst to throw in our faces the fact that the race is clearly tightening?

phaedruscj said...

Trus Gillers Obama is a good example. He's a college grad but refuses to release any information about his college record (unlike Bush) so we don't really know if he is the smartest guy on earth, next to Joe Biden.

The Bus said...

Even when I did look at the Wiki for the Bradley Effect, the polling data suggested a closer contest similar to Bush/Kerry '04.

To say that there will be a Bradley effect to the extent of Obama's lead is inane.

Tom said...

We are reaching a point where it will take a huge misstep/mistake by Obama in the debate or a scandal enveloping Obama or some catastrophic foreign affairs event to prevent Obama's election.

In fact, with new National Polls showing Obama with 9-12 point leads, hitting 52-53% consistently now, the possibility is growing that Obama will in fact get 53-55% of the Popular Vote nationally, which would undoubtedly translate into an Electoral College landslide. This combined with an increase in the Senate majority to 58-61 seats is going to provide the opportunity to claim a "policy mandate" much as Reagan claimed after 1980.

In quarrelling over the Horserace details, I think many are missing the larger impact of this Election. We may be in the midst of a Change Election of great magnitude, an election which will not only result in a change in parties controlling the Presidency but combined with the Economic Crisis is going to allow Obama and Democrats to argue that deep fundamental policy change is required, and that Americans have voted for that.

This is why it is very important for Obama to continue to lay out his economic vision, to expand his program as he did today, to clarify for everyone that Obama represents a major break from the economic policies of recent years. Obama needs to keep pounding on the "Failed Conservative Economic Theory" theme that he has been developing on the stump to ensure he will have the opportunity to confront Congress with a Change Mandate.

If he's asked about budget deficits, Obama must lay the blame for those at Bush's feet, blame the Iraq War as he has, and talk about how the highest priority is to get the economy going, to preserve the Middle Class, to reduce unemployment, to create productive jobs, to enhance economic security. Getting the economy going will result in expanded government revenues, which will allow some paying down of the deficit, but the economy is perilously close to collapse. Government must rescue the economy, and unleash a serious period of investment in job creation which will be the economic engine.

There is a widespread consensus that Health Care must be addressed, that the current system is broken, as even McCain has admitted. By continuing to put pedal to the metal on the economic issues besetting the nation, Obama will be able to claim the mandate necessary to legislate real change on health care by overcoming the powerful entrenched insurance interests.

Notice how well-tuned the Obama campaign and its surrogates were today. As Obama was laying out new elements of his economic plan, with a keynote of JOBS here in Ohio, Hillary Clinton held events in Pennsylvania addressing Jobs. There is a crescendo building for Economic Change. This is going to provide the opportunity for real policy change in governance.

I think perhaps part of the reason why we have been hearing these desperate anti-Obama messages from the right wing at McCain/Palin events is because these are folks who are not used to losing. They have been dominating Presidential elections and policy-making since 1968.

Clinton and Carter, who while progressive on racial issues were policy moderates, not progressives/liberals, are the only Democrats elected President since 1968. Obama represents a clear break from the moderate Southern Democrats like Carter and Clinton. He is pragmatic, solutions-oriented, consensus-oriented in approach, but while he is not an ideologue, he is clearly to the left of both Carter and Clinton. Proposals like his tax credit for businesses who create jobs here at home while penalizing companies who export jobs are more populist than liberal, but they will provide the opportunity to build widespread support for his plans. There is an opportunity to forge a new national majority, and Obama must continue to attempt to seize that opportunity.

Rand Careaga said...

Look, "He"--

No doubt you're having fun with this overbroad lampoon of a Rightie troll, and you've even provoked some responses from the credulous, but it seems to me that we should be better on this side than to dress ourselves up in straw to discredit the opposition further. They're doing that quite adequately all by themselves: why poison the well with these spurious performances, unless you value your own self-indulgent amusement over our common cause?

I speak as the son of a WWII USMC Gunnery Sergeant (Edson's Raiders) who stopped a slug on Guam in 1944. He's just turned 87, and is on the frail side, but is feisty enough that he'd want to kick your ass for this dreary imposture.

trevin said...

It occurred to my last night to be a little bit worried about a related possibility.

I accept that there will be few voters who lie about whom they are voting for because of race.

What about "undecided" voters who are not racist or undecided but who decline to answer because they are embarrassed to be for John McCain?

There are some parts of where I live that I would not relish answering that I am a McCain voter.

JhEnglish said...

"I'm not about to believe the Bradley Effect has died, even if Nate and Sean say it has. As others have posted, there are plenty of social scientists who say it isn't dead."
And more who say it is...So who`s right???
Great blog btw!!Keep up the good work

Cary Robinson

eponymous said...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

Is there, is there only one red poll on that list?

(rubs eyes)

Aunt Karen said...

@BobEl, my dad is 88 years old, and definitely has a great deal of racial 'wariness'. As a bit of background, he lives in NJ, I live in MA. He's very conservative, but in the true sense of the word, not a neocon. I'm very liberal, also in the truest sense of the word. That's been true for many years.

He's voting for Obama. He hates George Bush, and he's mad at McCain, too! He's never voted off the red ticket in his life. But he's going to make the effort to get to the polls, and do his duty.

On a slightly different note, during one of the Washington Post live chats today, I saw a question from a gentleman in Cheyene, Wyo., in which this fine fellow referred to Sean Hannity as somewhat middle-of-the road. I find that, frankly, frightening. Anyone that can have the sense that Sean Hannity (or Keith Olbermann, for that matter), is leaning towards the mainstream is not watching what I'm watching.

I'm just sayin'.

Roger said...

I have a new drinking game... How many factual/spelling/grammatical mistakes "he" makes in his posts.

Umm, "He" is clearly somone parodying republitrolls -- I mean, "Simper Fi"? A sniper with a machine gun? The reletlessly comic spelling mistakes? Come on!

And to "He": clearly you're not being rediculous enough, some people are still taking you seriously. I think you need to tell them about your "backpack newkliar wepun" next time...

tomthress said...

"As others have posted, there are plenty of social scientists who say it isn't dead."

Has anybody posted a link to a social scientist who actually studied the issue and CONCLUDED that "it isn't dead"?

Shawn said...

RCP has turned Florida BLUE! Not that we care what he thinks.

Without Leaners -
Obama - 304
McCain - 158

Subterranean said...

tom -

Great post!

Dr. Killjoy said...

trevin:

I haven't looked deeply into it, but I don't think there's much evidence to suggest that people are reluctant to state a preference for a candidate just because he's a damned loser.

Mike said...

@trevin

Obama's lead in many key states is so big right now that if 100% of undecideds went for McCain, he would still win.

Robert said...

Tom:

Well said. I think this election hints at a generational shift. And That One will def. have a mandate when elected. I strongly believe the country will be a far stronger/better place because of it

Adrian said...

tomthress: "Has anybody posted a link to a social scientist who actually studied the issue and CONCLUDED that "it isn't dead"?"

Yes. Try reading this article, in the latest edition of Science Magazine (one of the most respected scientific journals in the world, not a media outlet).
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5899/180

If you don't have access (requires university registration) I posted the content above:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/if-bradley-effect-is-gone-what-happened.html#comment-3185142089445683622

OTF said...

Another great day of polling for Obama. McCain is ahead in just 1 state (Indiana)of 8 states he must win.

Yvonne said...

CNN is really trying hard to make this a horserace with the following arguments:

1. Obama might have peaked too early
2. Obama might play defense and lose
3. Previous presidential races tightened too.

eponymous said...

roger,

I believe He is playing the Youtube game: namely, try to make a post so idiotic no-one could possibly take you seriously.

The joke is that it isn't possible.

Dr. Killjoy said...

tomthress:

Does Chris Matthews count as a social scientist?

Hang on - I'll answer that myself. No.

Jack-be-nimble said...

For every 500 points the Dow gains, McCain will gain one point in the polls. So based on today, he will gain two points in the next few days. If the Dow gains another 1000 points he will draw into a tie.

Also splashed on Drudge is a picture of Obama with his tongue on a young blonde woman's cheek. This is obnoxious.

OTF said...

yvonne,

They are trying to gather ratings. A blowout is the worse thing for the 24 hr news networks. They floated every scenario in the world in the Dem primary when it was clear Hillary couldn't catch up in delegates and they will floata every scenario to make the race tighter now.

sunshine fortress said...

Okay, I hardly ever post here, but I'll tell you why I fear the Bradley effect: because Obama is winning and the right is the party of Karl Rove.

I think republicans will do anything to win, I fear Acorn and the Bradley effect are the planting of seeds that on election day will be used as evidence why McCain miraculously won the election despite such bad polling. Am I a freaked out lefty? You betcha. I've already heard, maybe from this site I don't know, about efforts in Pennsylvania to enforce electioneering laws and disenfranchise any one who is wearing an Obama shirt. This is really going to happen, not just in Pennsylvania, but other states too. And what about all the registration purges? Hundreds of thousands and maybe millions of voters who thought they were registered won't have their votes count. What about voter machine tampering?

I agree with Nate's numbers, in a fair world Obama would have about a 95% chance of winning, but this isn't a fair world, Republicans cheat. Democrats cheat too, but Republicans are better at it, they just are. I put the odds right now at about 60% once you factor in the cheat factor.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

max_hartman1@yahoo.com

Luke C. said...

The Bradley Effect is a lie.

DCM in FL said...

JACKIE B....

and your factual evidence to support your semi-random assertion is ______ ???

obnoxious is for you to even mention that photo on Drudge IMHO

Dr. Killjoy said...

Jack-be-nimble:

Gee whiz, mister, that's some cracker-jack cipherin' you done there!

Robert said...

And MSM still refuses to acknowledge that that one has played this presidential election like a stradivarius.

I think most are underestimating his political skills.

He sure has chosen good advisers. Let
s hope his cabinet is equally good

Yvonne said...

OTF,

I know, I am just incredulous at their audacity.