10.28.2008

The Black Turnout Surge, Already In Progress

According to Michael McDonald's terrific website, there are three states in which early voting has already exceeded its totals from 2004. These are Georgia, where early voting is already at 180 percent of its 2004 total, Louisiana (169 percent), and North Carolina (129 percent).

Hmm ... can anybody think of something that those three states have in common?



The African-American population share is the key determinant of early voting behavior. In states where there are a lot of black voters, early voting is way, way up. In states with fewer African-Americans, the rates of early voting are relatively normal.

This works at the county level too. In Cuyahoga County, Ohio (Cleveland), which about 30 percent black, twice as many people have already voted early as in all of 2004. In Franklin County (Columbus), which is about 18 percent black and also has tons of students, early voting is already about 3x its 2004 total.

So when McCain's pollster talks about Obama's black vote being "locked in", he is at best getting the story half-right. It's true that there aren't very many African-Americans who are reporting themselves as undecided. But any polling based on 2004 assumptions about what black turnout will look like is probably going to miss the mark significantly.

Frankly, I do think that McCain is the favorite to win a majority of undecideds (but a majority means like 55-60%, not some ridiculous fraction like 70%).

But I also think that the polls are probably undercounting Obama's decided vote, particularly among African-Americans, and young persons with cellphones.

250 comments

Smunker said...

Surely top 10?

Matthew said...

I would have liked to see a datapoint for Oregon, where all voting is early voting. (More or less), but there is not a high percentage of African-America voters.

Actually, Oregon (and probably Iowa, Vermont and Hawaii) is probably the state with the highest margin for Obama with a small African-American population.

Dmitry said...

Racist blacks.

Eric said...

@Matthew:

Don't forget us here in Washington State :)

ZY said...

NC is very promising.

nate, any point for late stage state-national poll relationship?

Mom101 said...

The revolution is coming. And not a moment too soon.

Nate Silver said...

I deliberately excluded OR because all the voting there is considered "early".

If I included it, it would make the relationship appear even stronger, but it's not a legit data point.

Ames said...

Nate, why is McCain the favorite among undecideds? That might merit a post of its own... I hope you haven't done one and I've missed it :)

John Vance said...

How's NM's early voting turnout. I voted around lunchtime Monday last week, and there was a 20 minute wait for 20 voting booths.

I stopped by the UNM Obama rally. Now way could I get in - it was packed! I swear every single black person in the State was there.

Boxcar Fritz said...

Random Number!

Matthew said...

Washington would also be up there, but Washington still has twice the AA population of Oregon by percentage...although it is only 3% to 1.5%

Franco said...

read this article from McCain's polster, what do you all think

NATE?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/15052.html

Wesley said...

So Nate, will you adjust the model to account for it?

Darío said...

What said McCain is the favorite in the undecideds?.
The polls didn´t said that.

Michael said...

I keep hearing discussion regarding the cell phone/non-landline argument for tipping polls off-center and I recall the realization that it wasn't playing for more impact in the primary polling. Nate, why does it supposedly hold more water now in the general?

Lea said...

For those curious about the Oregon rate of return for this election, here's a link to our results:

http://www.sos.state.or.us/elections/nov42008/daily.pdf

As Nate says, don't roll this into the concept of the above trend. This is provided only for the generally curious.

Geoff said...

There's a big hubbub going on in Lake County, Indiana (where I live), next-door to Chicago, about early-voting centers available. Basically Republicans don't want them, Democrats do. Full story here, and here.

Indiana does not have a huge black population, about 8.9% (of 6 million people). But Lake County does... around 26% (of 500K people).

Ain't that somethin'?

Nice post, Nate!

Indiana Census data here.

He said...

Black surge is GREAT NEWS...FOR JOHN MCCAIN!!!


Simper Fi

Lisa said...

OK, I'll say it since no one else has...

THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN!"

P.S. word verification fratizat!

Sara A. said...

They are voting early for several reasons: 1) Urban areas like Atlanta have the highest AA population, and are most likely to be affected by a huge turnout on Election Day, 2) They know from previous experience that vote suppression and other shenanigans (such as inadequate and malfunctioning machines) are most often aimed at areas with a high AA population and voting early is one way to prevent that, and 3) Enthusiasm.

Mule Rider said...

Olbermann referring to Sarah Palin as a fraud is GREAT NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!

Matthew said...

http://www.dataplace.org/area_overview/index.html?category=5&compare=1&place=x124790&replace_place=0&z=1


If you really want to get into wonkery (and I know this is off-topic) here is dataplace.org's comparison of Oregon and Washington in almost every demographic category imaginable.

Jim said...

One quibble... Texas only reports Early Voting turnout for the 15 largest counties (Harris = Houston; Dallas = Dallas; Travis = Austin; Bexar = San Antonio, etc.) while voting is going on.

Your numerator in that fraction for Texas is for the 15 largest counties ONLY, but your denominator is for the ENTIRE state in 2004.

Texas currently reported 2.069 million early votes in the 15 largest counties through yesterday. We're getting about 400,000 votes per day. The early vote total for the 15 largest counties in 2004 was about 2.4 million.

There is a very good chance Nate that Texas will report tomorrow that 2008 early voting totals in the 15 largest counties have already exceeded 2004 early vote totals in the 15 largest counties.

Also, please fix your regression to reflect this fact.

Lefty said...

There were around 822,000 black voters in Georgia in 2004. There have been 427,000 so far just in early voting this year. Pushing AA turnout from 25% to 28% could have a big impact. But what if it gets pushed to 30%? or anything close to the 35% we're seeing right now?

Holy cow...

MysticLaker said...

@franco:

from dailykos internals on male/female support.
M: 38 O: 56

Every poll that has released data has shown 10+ support from woman for Obama. He is right, woman are going to going make this election, for Sen. Obama.

Turn out will be huge. It will be GYNARMOUS.

eve said...

I love early voting. Makes it easy. We should also change election day from Tuesday to Saturday.

Nate, thanks for more kinds of data. Makes watching the history being made even more fascinating.

Kenyada said...

There was a time – not too long ago – when it was not healthy for a black person to even register to vote, let alone voice a preference to a total stranger. If you want to understand the black vote, you’ll have to delve into American History, as well as statistics. Yes, this is 2008, and there are laws against voter intimidation, but once you have lived through it, or are related to someone who did live through it, it never leaves you. Just check the numbers on November 5th and you’ll see that this election changes American politics as we know it.

John said...

"If I included it, it would make the relationship appear even stronger, but it's not a legit data point."

Meaning that Oregon's early voting numbers are down?

Justin said...

?! Is HE finally back? I was starting to get bored since all the Repub Trolls had left.

yune said...

GOD, NATE, SURE HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT.

the old perfesser said...

The late-undecided are going to break unevenly in favor of McCain because they have to be comfortable with change to vote for it. If they aren't yet comfortable with the new kid, they'll vote McCain - or (I propose) they won't vote at all.

MysticLaker said...

Stop the presses!!!!

Stop the presses!!!!

Senator Obama is black? Is that what you guys are insinuting? WTF? He is black! I thought he was just Hawaian? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

cher said...

Regarding Colorado. I have been so stressed out with all that I was reading online that I wrote to the County where I reside. I voted by mail along with my two sons. I was stressed about everything but one of my sons does not have a driver's license which is part of the problem with the ballot. I recieved two emails from two different people. Here they are:

From: Election Department: electiondepartment@ci.broomfield.co.us
Date: Oct 27, 2008 6:16 AM


I verified all three records and all of you are fine. We do not need your IDs. We will be comparing the signatures on the envelopes with records on file.

If you have any questions please contact me

Jim
303-464-5898

--------------- 2nd one


From: Richard Perkins rperkins@ci.broomfield.co.us
Date: Oct 27, 2008 9:39 AM


I have checked all three registrations, and none are required to provide any additional identification. The ballots will be processed by the Mail-In ballot board and would only be rejected if the ballot was not signed, or if there was a question about the signature. Even then, a letter would be sent and the voter would have until 11/12/2008, to clarify the situation.

If I can be of any further assistance, please contact me either at 303.438.6213 or at rperkins@broomfield.org.

Richard Perkins
Elections

------------------

Considering that two people responded to my one email and that one wrote at six in the morning I am calming down a slight bit about the Colorado situation and it seems they are interested in putting my concerns to rest.

Well at least about my Colorado situation.

Just heard Rachel Maddow mention 538 and started to write "us"... that is the difference between this site and RCP, etc.

Vinny said...

GA is cool. Not because I actually think Obama can win it, but hopefully it's enough to kick Suxby to the curb.

Lisa said...

olf perfesser - my preference would be the latter. :-)

H IN FLORIDA said...

I'm in Broward Count FLORIDA and early voter turnout has been crazy. Lines for 3-4 hours has been commonplace. I wouldn't be surprised to AA turnout near 100% in FL. That would be a significant increase of thousands of votes. The Hispanic vote is going to be huge as well. I know Cuban American families that are all going for Obama as well.

MoralMajoraty said...

38.5% maximum marginal tax rate is SOCIALISM. What part of SOCIALISM don't you understand? 36% maximum marginal tax rate is the only AMERICAN maximum marginal tax rate there is.

John said...

Anyone, on either side, who intentionally tries to disenfranchise voters should go directly to hell.

If you can sleep at night while doing that than you are, by definition, a sociopath.

panic slowly said...

surely the axes should be switched...

AA is the independent variable here

also, i think states below the trend line favour obama

true/false?

KMartDad said...

Like Ames, I'd like to see a rationale for undecideds breaking for McCain. Pollster.com indicated that since 92, undecideds tend to break for the Dem at the last minute. Also, it would seem that they would break for the "challenger" in a "change election" (like they did for Reagan v. Carter).

Justin said...

Rachael Maddow will be interviewing Obama on Thursday! Exciting!

breadandwine said...

I love it! White people vote for a white candidate ... that's not racist. Black people vote for a black candidate ... Dmitry calls that racist. Race probably is a factor in the decision of most (not all) African-Americans to vote for Barack Obama ... but so what if it is? Have black Americans ever had an opportunity to vote for a black person for president? Can anyone really blame them if they take this first-time chance to do so? I sure can't. (BTW, I'm a white man and I have voted early for Sen. Obama.)

panic slowly said...

states below the trend-line "outperforming" the "AA effect"

more enthusiasm = more obama support

livemild said...

dont know if anyone else read the wsj piece from mccain camp on how polls are turning their way. it was funny-\
non college men
rural voters
right to lifers (their wording!)

are the votes that are now coming towards mccain-HOW DUMB ARE THEY? didnt they already have these people? i thought that was the entire base of the repubs?

are they counting votes twice!!

btw my word was mania! kind of fitting

Justin said...

Here's another white man voting for Obama (granted I am in the "League of First Time Voters", only 20...wasn't old enough in 2004)
Icing on the cake...I'm in Wichita, KS

itsSlipK said...

EVERYONE WORRIED ABOUT PENNSYLVANIA READ!

LOOK HERE: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_obama-244.html

MCCAIN HAS NOT LED IN ONE POLL SINCE APRIL 24TH !

NEED I REMIND YOU HILLARY CONCEDED JUNE 7TH.... SO THE SO CALLED PUMAS OUT THERE ARE FULL OF IT.

OBAMA HAS HELD A LEAD IN PA THE WHOLE GENERAL ELECTION, HE'S NOT ABOUT TO LOSE BECAUSE JOHN MCCAIN IS FINALLY MAKING A RUN FOR IT WITH A WEEK TO GO.

OBAMA'S BASE IS BUILT.

SORRY FOR CAPS :P

Darío said...

Dmitry is racist.

Justin said...

Actually I got that last post wrong. I'm not voting for Obama, I already voted for Obama

Clarissa said...

yes- Panic slowly the states that are below the trend line all favor Obama. Being below that line means that they have a high turnout but low AA population. NV and CO are definately swing states and McCain wanted IA & ME to be swing states so there were resources invested there. Except Florida all the states above the trend line would be considered safe R.

Justin said...

AHHH...capslock makes my brain itch...lol

Lisa said...

John:

When either side employs a GOTV effort, they do NOT call ALL voters in the area. They call on a list of voters sympathetic to their candidate. That's the nature of the beast.

L

bizkid23 said...

I am in Louisiana and I so wanted Obama to make a play here. Not sure what his strategy is in avoiding the deep south but I'm sure they've thought it through completely. Maybe in 2012 Obama? :)

obamamama505 said...

Happy, happy, joy, joy (does a little dance.)

Looks at her children who are asian, hispanic, native american, and white (Thai-Mex IndiGlos) and sees a bright future for them.

Happy, happy, joy, joy....

Nate said...

I'm not sure that this data is especially strong evidence for your content that african americans will disproportionately turnout . High early voting turnout for African Americans might only indicate that a disproportionate number of African Americans are choosing to vote early this year, which does not demonstrate that turn out might be ultimately be higher.

If you were right that the polls were understating the African American vote, then the polling should show that a growing percentage of the electorate in early voting states is african american because as african americans who did not pass likely voter screens voted, those voters should become "likely."

Indeed, PPP's North Carolina poll suggests that this is not the case. African American early voting totals are roughly in line with pre-election turn out estimates.

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2008/10/early-voters-in-north-carolina.html

Justin said...

GO ObamaMamma

Selden said...

Just as the Clinton campaign during the primaries failed to grasp the importance of caucus states, so the McCain failed to grasp the importance of early voting. I voted 8 days ago; granted, the demographics of DeKalb County show that 54% of the population is African-American, so this county is not representative of Georgia as a whole, but of approximately 1000 people standing in line on October 20, I saw 20 white faces. By getting out the vote over a period of weeks in advance of November 4, the Obama campaign has that many fewer people to mobilize on election day. This is the proverbial game changer — and the McCain campaign was caught sleeping at the wheel. I still think it extremely unlikely that Obama will win in Georgia, but the vote will be much closer than anyone could have imagined 6 months ago.

Lisa said...

Justin -- Congrats on your first vote! You've made a good choice! :-)

Zenu said...

I got some lovely propaganda from my countys' republican committee..full of lies, god i had that, from BOTH sides. Why isn't it illegal? Some poor old person could read it and end up voting for a douchebag against her or his interests (which is what most republicans do anyway...).

This is really interesting, though. I always wondered why some of these states like GA and LA have such a significant McCain lead. Even though they're typically republican strongholds, they have a large black population which are coming out like never before. If Obama doesn't win it, I still think they'll be close point-wise and it's going to shake things up even more than expected.

Pollsters are a joke this year, and they need to really re-evaluate this come next election. From everyone under 35 attached to cell phones and a large percentage not even owning landlines, to the unprecedented amount of minority voters, things are going to be very good for obama next tuesday.

PorridgeGun said...

The Black Turnout Surge, Already In Progress



And right into the McCain column, courtesy of Diebold, or into the bin, courtesy of Republican Secretaries of State.


OR



McCain/Palin stir up enough hatred and racism at campaign rallys, that a couple of Neo-Nazi skinheads decide to go on a shooting and decapitation spree.

John said...

lisa... I'm not sure what you mean.

Did you think I was talking about GOTV? I'm talking about deliberate attempts to keep people from voting or to make their votes not count.

No one is under any obligation to motivate people to vote, but they have a moral imperative to not try and disenfranchise voters.

Terrell said...

Just for the record, Justin, I am a 61 year old Georgian white guy who voted proudly for Barack Obama two weeks ago. I actually believe we have a shot at Georgia. Keep working folks!!

Don't forget to tap Jim Martin's name as well on that blasted paperless Diebold monster.

Justin said...

@Lisa
Thanks...I did find it rather "Crazy" though...I was a staunch Clinton supporter and never ever ever thought that Obama would end up getting the Nom (until it became painfully obvious) I just found it as a huge historical moment that the first vote I will ever cast for President was for a Bi-racial man named Barack. During the early primaries I always thought that there was no way Obama will ever beat out Clinton. His name and background are too funny/different...mainstream America will never accept him as a candidate for President. But I've got my DNC Convention DVD (for donating to the Obama campaign) coming in the mail and my three buttons I bought online..Def saving those as a historical momento of sorts for myself. Whoever woulda thunk it

Lisa said...

oh... nevermind. :-)

Nathan said...

zenu, let's hope that we're right to be so confident about the real electorate relative to the pollsters. i believe it. hopefully the numbers will reflect it.

Jeremy said...

So Drudge doesn't have the Zogby numbers up for Wednesday, even though the "tightening" Tuesday numbers were up before 7 pm yesterday.

Hmmm...could this be because Obama is up and the fuckturd doesn't want to publish it?

LAT said...

in the comments section in PPP there was a lot of push back against Tom with this assumption that black voters are simply voting now and that that will be it. This whole assumption seems flawed to me. It assumes that Obama is getting votes now and is running out of them. Makes no sense. Voting will be out all the way through election day and ON election day.

Porridge---what have you been on the last two days? Maybe change to something a little more uppy? Or something that will chill you a bit? You seem to be concern trolling every thread. Quite exhausting really. Sorry bud but it has gone on and on all day.

Vinny said...

Exactly. Talking about PA is stupid. It's like if Obama started devoting all his resources to Texas in a last ditch effort to win. Everybody would say he is insane. Yet now suddenly PA is flippable just because McCain is gambling on it? wtf?

Justin said...

@Terrell,
I as well believe strongly that GA could easily go for Obama...it did in '92 for Clinton..(who was labled as the "first black president") so why not?

UK Obama Fan said...

Is anyone getting really fed up of PorridgeGun's pointless negativity?
Dude! Chill the F out!!!!

Lisa said...

@Justin:

my "nevermind" was for John :-)

You should be very proud that you are taking an active part in making history. My 20 yo niece is choosing not to vote b/c she's afraid that registering to vote will make her more likely to receive jury duty...

Justin said...

Agreed, PA while be Blue by 8-8:30 CST on all the networks maps...(polls close at 7:00/8:00 EST)

H IN FLORIDA said...

I tend to think that Obama's 30 minute commercial tomorrow night will result in another 2 point bump for him like following the debates. It is a great opportunity to remind voters of specifics and erase all of the Republican lies and chatter of the past week.

I am starting to think the polls are way off the mark with AA's and Hispanics and younger voters. These are not groups that typically vote early if they vote at all. The fact that they are swamping early voting sites leads me to believe their turnout will be through the roof.

stevieboy said...

"PPP's North Carolina poll suggests that this is not the case. African American early voting totals are roughly in line with pre-election turn out estimates."

You miss the point.

PPP is one of the pollsters who assume/expect a higher turnout this year among African Americans this year compared to 2004, and this is already reflected in their poll numbers.

There are other pollsters, however, who still weight to the 2004 turnout demographics. These pollster likely understate Obama's support. Nate's comment applies to this latter group of pollsters.

Jeremy said...

UK Obama Fan:

Is anyone getting really fed up of PorridgeGun's pointless negativity?
Dude! Chill the F out!!!!


FUCK YEAH! Enough with this whiney concern troll bullshit. If you're that freaked out go soak yourself in a tub of gin till 8:05 PM on next Tuesday night and get over your gloomy weird self. Jesus!

Vinny said...

Drudge is hilarious. Not only does his website look like it was made in a freshman Computers 101 class, he not only ignores all other polls, but ignores Gallup's other 2 models.

Clarissa said...

Jeremy- yeah- if Drudge posts a Zogby number it is probably favorable to McCain. If he doesn't it probably isn't. But I do think that he did leak the O +12 highwater so Zogby could be leaking to him every day (in a pathetic attempt to get attention) and whether its posted or not is simply Drudge's discretion.

Either that or Zogby is only leaking polls whose movement is dramatic enough to get the siren in a pathetic attempt to get attention.

LAT said...

UK fan--lol. You and I on the same page on the negative vibe. I am all for being realistic but this is getting to be almost performance art of uber negativity.

Jake formerly of the LP said...

"Is anyone getting really fed up of PorridgeGun's pointless negativity?
Dude! Chill the F out!!!!"

(Raises hand) Yeah, that act's getting very tired. look, I can understand a bit of paranoia because an Obama win seems so obvious that it's almost too good to be true. And I get that the GOPpers will cheat to try to counteract the will of tens of thousands of people who have been polled in these last few months.

But Porridge gun needs to know that there's enough Chitown in Barack to make sure he doesn't have it taken from him when it's rightfully his. And there's millions of 30-something white guy like me who finally get to vote for our generation's Reagan- a transformational figure that will drag the country out of the mess that it's currently in.

Porridge- Calm down and watch it play out. I think things will be OK, and if not, it's not your country that burns to the ground, it's mine, OK?

Afternoon said...

Nate, could you address this internal McCain memo regarding polling being off and the race being closer than it appears?

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/28/in-memo-mccains-top-pollster-sees-tighter-race/#more-6546

It would be interesting to hear your take.

Justin said...

lol...it might seem kinda absurd but when I did register I did think about being called up for jury duty (however this would never actually end up in me not registering. I was out canvassing my suburban Wichita KS neighborhood (extremley Republican) in 2004 trying to get people to vote for John Kerry and a prop for a sales tax for a downtown arena to revitalize the downtown area...regardless to say I was very dissapointed on NOV 2nd that Kerry lost, but did feel I at least made some difference as the arena is currently being built (sedgwickcounty.org/arena))
However, orginal reason for the post..I'd love to be called up for jury duty...my employer actually pays me normal pay (up to three months) as well as $20 a day (i guess for fullfilling your civic duty) if you serve jury duty....COME ON COURT SYSTEM, I'll do it anytime, lol.

Eric said...

Listening to people like SARAH HUGHES and ARI FLEISCHER makes me laugh. Folks aon the wrong side of history, attached to the worst President by a mile in the 232 year history of the United States will go down in the history books as pathetic jokes. they will be remembered for their weakness and pathetic lack of ability to do what their jobs required. No one will forget them. Their families for generations tied to them as pathetic excuses for public servants. It's hard for me to hate, but I hate them. So do millions of Americans. They have virtually noone's respect or approval and noone likes them. Millions hate them and they die of cancer for it. See Tony Snow.

LAT said...

stevie--I think I may not have explained myself clearly enough. I was arguing agaisnt the idea that early voting is ALL the increase we will see and that is not Nate's point but a point being made by a lot of people. Tom at PPP was speculating about that and a lot of his posters discussed with him how even the statistics of early voting were sort of contradicting that presumption. But Tom knows NC very well so we have to take what he says seriously.

Jeremy said...

Porridge isn't even American?!?

WTF is his problem then?

Vinny said...

Lol, don't be worried about McCain stealing the election. This isn't 2000 or 2004 -- there won't be a collective mutter and bitterness and then we move on. If this election is stolen...bad things will happen, I'm sure. The American people won't let America become a one-party state.

Jim said...

Again regarding Texas...

In the fifteen largest counties (fourteen actually; Jefferson County was dropped from the tally and replaced with Cameron County, so only 14 counties have data for both 2004 and 2008) There is a relationship between early voting turnout and race, but it is not as strong as I thought.

R-squared is .38.

County 2008 / 2004 EV Percent Black
Harris 0.97 19
Dallas 0.86 21.1
Tarrant 0.85 14.1
Bexar 0.89 7.6
Travis 0.82 9
Collin 0.82 7.4
El Paso 0.68 3.4
Denton 0.81 7.6
Hidalgo 0.8 1
Fort Bend 1.13 21.3
Montgomery 0.89 4.4
Williamson 0.82 6.4
Nueces 0.74 4.4
Galveston 0.73 14.8

It should be noted however that Galveston County was hard-hit by Hurricane Ike, and the AA community particularly was exposed (as in Katrina). So, there may be a good reason why early vote is so low in Galveston compared to the rest of the State.

mc9cain said...

I'm going to try and make one defense of Porridge and then that's it because the concern trolling has gotten out of hand.

But I do realize that not being in the U.S. is a disadvantage knowing what is going on - particularly with election fraud prevention controls that the Obama campaign has in place. The Obama campaign has at least 1,000 - 5,000attorneys in each battleground state who will physically be present at polling locations.

That is in addition to all those who are set up in war rooms to handle the phone calls in from these attorneys. The Obama campaign has been working 24/7 for a year to make sure that the laws are correct in each state, that officers are put on notice that any election fraud attempted will not be successful AND a ton of this work has already been accomplished.

It's working like a machine right now, has been working that way for over a year and there is no reason they are going to not work well the remaining 7 days.

sfergus483 said...

My nightly reminder on Drudge:

It's a business plan. He rose to fame and major fortune because of Monicagate. Then for a decade he was the go-to site for GOP slanted coverage of the news. Then he seemed real favorable to Obama until the GOP convention, to the point where the freepers wrote him off.

He wants and expects Obama to be president. If Obama loses, he will cry as hard as the rest of us. Why?

Because he wants to return to his glory days, with a Dem president, and him as the place to see all the scandals and controversies that might take place. And to set this all up, since Palin has been chosen, he has returned to the old Drudge.

It's not worth getting all excited about. It's what he wants.

I'd bet my Kos TU status that he votes or has voted for Obama. It's in his interest for him to win.

He said...

I will not allow a black man Muslim communist to become my president, which is why I voted 3 times in Virginia...for John McCain. I plan to cast more votes for McCain/Pallen before election day.

I did not witness my fellow Marines dye in my arms in Iraq, just so I can home and see my once-great country being taken over my liberal atheist Marxist homosexual Muslim fundamentalist and black racist Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

MCCAIN/PALLEN: THE CHOICE OF PATRIOTS
SIMPER FI
GO MARINE CORE!!!

Katherine Derbyshire said...

My guess is that AA turnout approaches 100% of eligible voters.

Especially in the South, we're talking about people who were (or have relatives who were) beaten and murdered for even trying to register, and now have the chance to vote for a viable black candidate. They'll vote -- and drag everyone they know to the polls -- if they have to crawl across burning coals to do it.

Josh said...

I think Obama will win GA, LS, & MS.

But just because I am hopeful of a great day on 11/4 doesn't mean I'm going to let up.

lilgoodi said...

Michael:
"I keep hearing discussion regarding the cell phone/non-landline argument for tipping polls off-center and I recall the realization that it wasn't playing for more impact in the primary polling. Nate, why does it supposedly hold more water now in the general?"

I can't be sure but I imagine the reason the largest population that is cell phone only (no landline at all) is young people. Not only will young people vote more in the general election than the primaries but also they are more tilted in the general election towards one candidate. Not sure what the young people split was for Obama vs Clinton but I'm sure it will be bigger Obama vs McCain.

Justin said...

Vinny..agreed..the media has played up Obama's large lead in the polls already...if McCain wins it'll look fishy. The media will dissect what went wrong for Obama and find the flaws. Than after that happens the public will not allow for an excuse such as "oh it's just the liberal media elite looking for a story" Enough said. Do your part, get off your ass and vote. Better yet, learn your rights as a voter, than get off your ass and vote.

Eric said...

Reagan's neo-conservatism got out of hand because millions of Americans are easily brain-washed. See Evangelical Christianity. These morons elected total fucking idiots int office like 85 IQ Dumb Senior Bush and his Dumber son W.. They surrounded themselves with ideological fuck-ups and we ended up with a lesser country than an of us could have imagined 30 years ago. We're a sorry excuse for the superpower great USA we're supposed to be. I believe and hope Obama and the Dems can salvage us and get us back to the goodness we once were, but my how the mighty have fallen. Pray for the US to the beacon of hope it once was and is capable of being. We've lost our way!!!!

Bob Jones' Neighbor said...

@MysticLaker -

No Obama's not black! He's as white as Strom Thurmond's oldest daughter....

Oh...

Wait...

Never mind!

justin32099 said...

"I did not witness my fellow Marines dye in my arms in Iraq"

There's nothing worse than getting dye on your arms.

Jim said...

For the visually inclined:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/texasyojimbo/texas-fourteen-largest-counties-thr.jpg

Chart: County Percent Black vs. County EV Turnout (Ratio 2008/2004). Fourteen Largest Counties in Texas. Through 10/27/2008

Mason said...

PorridgeGun said...
The Black Turnout Surge, Already In Progress



And right into the McCain column, courtesy of Diebold, or into the bin, courtesy of Republican Secretaries of State.


OR



McCain/Palin stir up enough hatred and racism at campaign rallys, that a couple of Neo-Nazi skinheads decide to go on a shooting and decapitation spree.


Quit your bitchin' and do something about it?
kthaxbai.

Ative: adj. What PG is not being about this vote stealing shit.

Fran said...

Whil there can be no doubt that getting as many democrat leaning people to vote early suits the Democrats -- since as a whole they tend to be less reliable in casting votes, are more often suppressed, challenged etc ... there is a temporary downside.

The more successful they are at getting out their supporters early, the worse the exit polls will look for Obama, since those voting late will be a depleted pool. It may be that the early voting surge discourages some Republicans from bothering to vote at all, or perhaps encourages some Republicans to also vote early, or simply enbsures that Democrats who might have forgotten otherwise turn up on Nov 4 and make sure they do it.

Still, I want the exit polls to show up strongly enough for an early KO on the Bush years. After 2000 and 2004, exit polls that are close would worry me.

Justin said...

Good for you HE...go to f-in bed...I now remember why I despised you so, go crawl back into the dark whole you came from.

@sfergus483
Good insight. I know the right wingers (Rush especially) can't wait for Obama to become President so they can whine and whine about how the Democrats are truely ruining their lives. Pathetic fools, if I must say so myself

Eric said...

THE HATRED FOR THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES IS WELL-EARNED. THEIR PARTY IS DONE. IT ENDED CIRCA 2005! KARL ROVE DESTROYED IT BY OVER_REACHING! DEMOCRATS RULE FOR 40 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bobnsj said...

Fran

Quit worrying about the effect of early voting on exit poll results.

1. The exit poll outfit all of the networks use have taken it into account.

2.After being burned by exit polls in 2004 the networks are going to want lots of REAL votes before calling any close state.

Jeremy said...

I dare predict that by this time next week the networks and cable TV (maybe with the exception of Fox) will be reporting on the landslide win of President elect Obama

Juris said...

NATE - Can you investigate this?

We are 1 week from election. What is typical percentage "undecided" in polls 1 week from election day -- and how does 2008 compare with 2000 and 2004?

Also what's typical relationship between percentage undecided (at this stage) and turnout rates? (could use earlier national elections or state level data).

Answers to these quex would give more clue to where the undecideds are going to end up.

Justin said...

Oh my Eric, what happy pills of yours suddenly kicked in? lol

damitajo1 said...

Aren't you assuming that the increase in black early voters translates equally into an increase in black voters overall? Isn't it possible that many blacks are voting early because they are exicited about voting and do not represent a surge in the total numbers of black votes?

Vinny said...

McCain's chances to win this election went into the toilet once Obama solidified all the Kerry states. I mean, it's just NOT feasible to hang on to almost EVERY state Bush won, especially when even ONE, such as Ohio or Florida, could lose it for you just like that.

McCain had his best chances back when he was competitive in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and Minnesota.

prairiecomm said...

Anyone, on either side, who intentionally tries to disenfranchise voters should go directly to hell.

It does occur to me that such people are already living in hell -- their own hell.


carbonon
again, the google oracle ...

PorridgeGun said...

UK Obama Fan said...

Is anyone getting really fed up of PorridgeGun's pointless negativity?




Yeah, it's not like blacks have never been denied the right to vote, or been targeted for "caging" by Republican Secretaries of State, or that suppression and fraud and faulty Diebold voting machines is always reported during US elections, or that the Bush DOJ is going after Ohio voters.


Pointless negativity. Sure.

AnnWC said...

HE, great that you're back! Some people actually think you're serious!
lol

Kevin said...

It could be a "black turnout surge", as you suggest, or it could be simply the Democrats placing extra emphasis on early voting.

A better regression to run may have been the black voters a portion of early voters vs. the black voters as a portion of Democrats, or better yet just to include Kerry's performance in the 2004 election as a second independent variable (though this would have been difficult to express visually in a chart)

Zenu said...

Eric,

I really hope so, and I tend to agree. Neoconservatism is for people who want to go back in time, and most people want to go forward so there's really nowhere for them to go but back to the hole they came from.

Isn't it interesting that Rove of all people is an atheist, though? The talking heads for neocons are all obviously the bad, batshit kind of religious people who have no idea what the message of religion brought, but Karl Rove, us atheists don't want you either, gtfo.

Steve_OH said...

@justin32099

"There's nothing worse than getting dye on your arms."

No, he said in his arms. I think He must have been talking about tattoos.

["pelpsy" - The preferred soft drink of the really, really old generation?]

Jake formerly of the LP said...

I'll add a second about cell-phone effects, not just because of the fact that many of my friends are both cell-phone-only and Obama voters, but because the cell phone numbers skew where a person is "from."

I assume pollsters are dialing random numbers in a certain area code that matches a state. Well for example, my cell phone is an Indiana number, but I live in Wisconsin, and I can think of friends with Wisconsin numbers in Minnesota, and Illinois and Colorado numbers in Wisconsin, among other combinations. I can't think those people are being reached accurately nearly as much as older people who are more likely to have land lines and local area codes. This more mobile, less-locatable group is general more pro-Obama, so I agree that it should counteract all but the most flagrant cheating attempts in the final numbers.

Anyone know if pollsters ask what state someone is from when they reach someone on the phone, or do they (sometimes wrongly) assume the person answering must live ina certain area.

Clarissa said...

Juris-

Pollsters recent article on late deciders might help with that, though it probably isn't strictly 'undecideds' and also includes soft support that changed.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/late_deciders_in_recent_presid.php

InkStain said...

"Isn't it interesting that Rove of all people is an atheist, though? The talking heads for neocons are all obviously the bad, batshit kind of religious people who have no idea what the message of religion brought, but Karl Rove, us atheists don't want you either, gtfo."

We're mixing up some terms here. Neoconservatives used a surge of social conservatives to come to power, but neoconservatism has nothing to do with religion. It's about American foreign policy.

Lisa said...

@afternoon I read your WSJ link and it doesn't worry me as much as makes me sad. The McCain campaign is actively courting uneducated, low income "Walmart Women" (their term not mine) to vote against their own self interest.

As they roll back to the Rove tactic of dividingand scaring our country using thing like threats of a second holocaust and now McC/P have Joe the plumber on the campaign trail agreeing that "a vote for Barack Obama is a vote for the death to Israel."

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/joe-plumber-backs-claim-obama-bring-death-israel/

It is truly nauseating. Tuesday can't come soon enough.

Eric said...

How would the all gay Charlie Crist/ Condoleeza Rice ticket do in 2012? Among their gay/lesbian constituents? Less than 50% for sure. Certainly it's a far superior ticket to the 2008 version the GOP came up with.

takestock said...

Pew did some good analysis of the undecideds in their poll today:

http://people-press.org/report/465/mccain-support-declines

The demographics of the undecides favor McCain a bit: churchgoers, older, and mostly white. Most will probably not vote, or go third party, but those that do I expect will break 60/40 for McCain, as Nate suggests.

Pew, IMO, is the best poller out there and understands the polling issues, like cellphone-only voters and likely-ness of voting, better than anyone. They don't push the undecideds though so the 53-38 result would probably look like this (my guess) next week if nothing changes:

Obama 55%
McCain 43%
other 2%

Justin said...

OK, look...I never thought I'd say this because I do not want to be conceived as a "concern troll" nor do I like when I ready when people do the whole "this is great news for..." but....
The DOW soars by 10.88%, this is great news for JOHN MCCAIN

InkStain said...

Count me in the group that thinks that the undecideds will either stay home or vote for McCain. He won't get 70% of the people who list themselves as undecided now, because a large portion will just not vote at all. But I bet he gets 70% of those that do show up.

Andy said...

Hey, does anyone know what the scenario is in the simulation that's happening 1500-2000 times every day where Obama wins about 380 electoral votes? Has anyone already commented about that?

mc9cain said...

Porridge gun,
You are annoying and boring and pompous. Right behind some basic freedoms, those were probably the two reasons the smart English got on a ship and got a new address over here. Leave your annoying and boring and pompous self off this blog please. We can't help it if you don't get to elect your Queen.

sfergus483 said...

Please stop misusing the term "neo-conservatism." It does NOT mean what people here are using it to mean.

Neoconservatism describes a policy that says the US has a duty to be militarily strong and aggressive in defending what it sees as defending democracies around the world, and take a pro-active position in doing so. Invading Iraq was a neo-conservative policy.

It has NOTHING to do with other core GOP values. You can be a neoconservative and operate an abortion clinic, favor gay marriage and not find higher taxes for the wealthy to be socialist. It is a foreign and military policy only doctrine.

Please stop using it to mean all of the recent GOP. Social conservatives and economic conservatives are not neo-conservatives.

Yvonne said...

Does anyone from Colorado know why only 1/3 of requested ballots were returned? Is that the same as early voting or strictly absentee.

Stan said...

I always find it funny when people take He seriously. I don't think it could be any more obvious that he's a parody. "Atheist Muslim fundamentalist," the judicious use of the word "dye," any time he and his fellow Marines "pole" each other.

Does it really need to be pointed out? Regardless of whether or not you find him funny (and I find him hilarious) his posts are meant to be taken as jokes.

InkStain said...

"Hey, does anyone know what the scenario is in the simulation that's happening 1500-2000 times every day where Obama wins about 380 electoral votes? Has anyone already commented about that?"

I'm guessing that's 378:

Kerry + NV, CO, NM, MO, IN, OH, VA, NC, FL and either ND or MT.

379 would be -ND/MT and either IN or MO, but +GA.

Jon said...

I voted early yesterday in Cobb County, Georgia, and have 2 comments to make related to this post:

First, I had to wait seven hours to vote. By the time I got to the election office to vote, a half hour after the polls opened, there were, by my rough guess, 700 people ahead of me.

Second, About two hours into my seven hour wait, I walked the line to go to the bathroom. While I was walking the line, I counted the number of non-African Americans I saw on the line. I counted 22, again, by a rough count.

I wouldn't be in the smallest bit surprised to hear that AA turnout exceeds 90% in this election.

Justin said...

@Eric...
"all-gay"? I, being a gay man...and being politically involved..had never even heard of these rumors before you just mentioned them. I just had to google these talking points to see what you were talking about. These are internet rumors scathed by obscurity...I guess if they were to go into the cross-hairs these issues could possibly surface up (ie Obama is a muslim, etc.) but these issues however, I feel would not matter. They are Republicans...republicans aren't gay (unless of course you are a foolsih Log-Cabin Repub)

GregM said...

Someone posted a link to WSJ Numbers Guy post...it had a link to this interesting article article regarding the jumps in Intrade prices. Apparently it was a "rogue trader" after all.

InkStain said...

" They are Republicans...republicans aren't gay (unless of course you are a foolsih Log-Cabin Repub"

Someone's never been to an airport restroom...

tkk13above said...

I think the McCain pollster got it less than half right. According to him:

"In most polls, McCain is losing these African American voters by margins like 97% to 1%."

Wrong. I mean, I look at those state polls of battlegrounds like IN, MO, NC, GA, OH, and FL released by surveyUSA and I keep seeing the margin more like 85-15, which is similar to what they say it usually is and they can expect less. So not only have they underestimated turnout as Nate said, but I think they are still counting on some black votes that they won't get, that is, if they read the same polls that I do. If they don't then their internals are probably telling them an even worse story, and they should get ready to lose all of the states I mentioned above, including GA.

sfergus483 said...

There are numerous on the record reports confirming that both Crist and Rice are gay. This is old news.

(fable - my WV - a real word!)

Justin said...

@Jon..

Regardless of who you voted for (and I can only hope it was for Obama) I commend you for waiting 7 hours to vote. I luckily only had to wait 15-20 mins. (early voting was available on a Saturday..I was surprised that it wasn't busy, though early voting times/locations haven't been publicly emphasized here in KS)
Anywho..back to the original point. Waiting 7 hours to vote goes to show that there are still great Americans out there who realize they are lucky to be able to vote their leaders into office. So, heres to you!

macona7 said...

Just voted today in VA with a friend. We both Baracked the Vote. And, we're both unnaccounted for cell phone votes.

Woohoo! Go Obama! Save Rome from falling!

Still really, really afraid that the Repubs will try to steal it again. Another reason not to be complacent and...VOTE dammit!

PMOC said...

Just an early voting report:

90 minute lines in downtown Orlando. Minorities were approximately 25-30 percent of my line. Obama +1

Clarissa said...

Yvonne- Not from Colorado but 1/3 one week out is not all that poor in my uneducated opinion. Some are just still in the mail. Some will be sent off later this week. Some will just decide not to vote absentee and show up at the polls on the 4th anyways. And some will note vote at all. I'd have to see the average absentee non-responce rate to know if its good or not but instinctually it doesn't worry me as odd.

Justin said...

Oh Inkstain
That's bad, lol..funny but bad. Okay, to edit my previous post...A republican is prob gay if they support staunch anti-gay agendas. If you hate the act so much to support measures in the senate that are reprehensible to gay rights..you probably "dabbled" when you were younger (as Ellen put it so wonderfully).you gotta be hiding something and feel angry about it...right?

mc9cain said...

With all the discussion about Undecideds, perhaps some of you read this in the recent New Yorker magazine by David Sedaris:
An exerpt:
...I look at these people and can’t quite believe that they exist. Are they professional actors? I wonder. Or are they simply laymen who want a lot of attention?

To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. “Can I interest you in the chicken?” she asks. “Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?”

To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.

I mean, really, what’s to be confused about?

...

I wonder if, in the end, the undecideds aren’t the biggest pessimists of all. Here they could order the airline chicken, but, then again, hmm. “Isn’t that adding an extra step?” they ask themselves. “If it’s all going to be chewed up and swallowed, why not cut to the chase, and go with the platter of shit?”

Ah, though, that’s where the broken glass comes in.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2008/10/27/081027sh_shouts_sedaris?currentPage=all

Fizz Byers said...

Young people + black people = lights out GOP
http://www.VoteRobot.org

Eric said...

First off, regarding Cons/Neo-Cons.

Fiscal conservatism makes sense in many respects. That said the new breed of Conservatives, symbolized by W and his crew are not fiscally conservative. I disagree with them 99% on foreign policy, 100% on social values, 99% on fiscal policy. Call it whatever you want. I'm not for trickle-down economics. I'm not for aggressive preemptive wars and I'm not for any of their social policy at all.

Justin said...
@Eric...
"all-gay"? I, being a gay man...and being politically involved..had never even heard of these rumors before you just mentioned them. I just had to google these talking points to see what you were talking about. These are internet rumors scathed by obscurity...I guess if they were to go into the cross-hairs these issues could possibly surface up (ie Obama is a muslim, etc.) but these issues however, I feel would not matter. They are Republicans...republicans aren't gay (unless of course you are a foolsih Log-Cabin Repub)


Rice was not picked because they're almost certain she's a lesbian. She's owned a house with a woman for many years. It's not super-important to me because I couldn't care less. I generally like lesbians. Certainly not biased against them or gay men for that matter. Just pointing it out, because the GOp wouldn't let McCain pick her because she might be and probably is gay. So we got stuck with unqualified PAlin as a VP. Crist might be a similar story. Never married. Seems like he just might be gay. Gets engaged for first time in what his 50s, right as he amy be considered for VP. Noone has refuted it. Again it doesn't matter. I just don't like that it does seem to matter to the hyper-hypocritical GOP who pretend like they're the good party and instead they're prejudice/bias evil.

Juris said...

@Clarissa: Thanks, I'll check that out.

Justin said...

BTW, in accordance with my new title from Sarah Palin...I shall now be known as "Justin the gay"

Kinda has a ring to it....right?

newsinOH said...

P.Gun,

A request was sent to the DOJ to investigate voter registration in OH. I would be very surprised if anything substantial happens in response to the letter prior to the election. The DOJ will ordinarily request documents, giving the respondent time to gather and forward the info. We're now at less than a week for the letter to go out, get there, get a response and get the info back.

Additionally, DOJ jobs can be "cleaned out" when administrations changed. Not necessarily--there are lots of people who keep their jobs through multiple administrations. With the economic conditions, I would be surprised if there were that many people who would want to stick their necks out that far, clearly become a target for possible axing.

Oh, for God's sake, I just saw part of a f@#king JTP press conference. WTF is wrong with people that they'd give that jackass the time of day--especially when he's talking about Iraq!!! This just has to stop

Heather Nordquist said...

@john vance
NM has only given gmu its Bernalillo numbers, which are good. However, statewide, we have about 353,000 votes, or ~1/2 of the total 2004 votes as of Friday. No ethnic breakdown, though. 775,000 total votes in 2004

verf word "iniesse" Just liked it.

InkStain said...

"Fiscal conservatism makes sense in many respects. That said the new breed of Conservatives, symbolized by W and his crew are not fiscally conservative. I disagree with them 99% on foreign policy, 100% on social values, 99% on fiscal policy. Call it whatever you want. I'm not for trickle-down economics. I'm not for aggressive preemptive wars and I'm not for any of their social policy at all."

We'll try this again :)

Neoconservatism has *no* social or fiscal policy. It's strictly a school of thought on American foreign policy.

Rich Rifkin said...

"According to Michael McDonald's terrific website ..."

Who knew that when Michael McDonald was not singing for Steely Dan or the Doobie Brothers, he was getting into the political website business?

John said...

I live in a nice part of Los Angeles. I have never had to wait more than three minutes to vote.

These people waiting in line for hours to vote... well, I couldn't be more impressed with you. I don't care who you voted for, the fact that they made it so hard and you still insisted on casting your vote... hats off to you.

It is a f**king disgrace that people have to wait in line seven hours to vote. That is incompetence on a Katrina level.

Why does it take me three minutes and them seven hours?

brooklynkevin said...

Hey, Nate! Getting quoted all over the place: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/28/its-always-darkest-before/

Nice going, Mr. Silver, Sir!!!!

Keep up the great work.

Kb

newsinOH said...

Hey, Obama said opportunity is as American as apple pie!! He's back to pie--he did well when he talked about pie!

Justin said...

@Eric
Interesting...something I never knew about either two people before. Never even crossed my mind...my gaydar must be broken...perhaps I should go meet Charlie Crist in an airport to confim the speculations. lol.

John said...

According to Michael McDonald's terrific website African American voters yah mo b there.

Mr. X said...

The better Obama's polling numbers are, the closer he gets to his "ceiling" of support, wherever that may lie. As a corollary, the bigger his lead over McCain, then the fewer persuadable voters there are, and the harder it will be to convince each successive percentage point. What this means is that with the consistent edge Obama has had, he should expect the majority of the undecided left to break to McCain unless some external event within the next week dictates otherwise.

Not that this is a big problem. Even if one assumes a 70-30 split, if Obama's lead is 51-44 or the like, that merely means that the election ends up 52-48 (to be extra generaous to McCain). I think Obama, Axlerod, Plouffe et al. would live with that quite happily.

Troy said...

"He" voted early and often!!!

yes, porridge's concern trolling is getting annoying, but don't nock it because he or she doens't live here.

There is a lot internationally resting on this election. McCain as president could be really bad, especially if porridge lives in Iran. (some sarcasim here, but not much.)

sfergus483 said...

Charlie Crist was married for a couple of months in his 20s. He has announced engagements several times in the past as his political career advanced, but has yet to make it again to the altar. His presence, with names, places and dates being a regular presence in the Tallahassee gay scene prior to his becoming more prominent in government have been widely reported in the Florida weekly independent press, both gay and straight.

Justin said...

@John
Agreed..I don't think I'd have the patience to wait 7 hours...nor the time for that matter. It is kinda ridiculous that with all the technology we have it seems that people in "certain states" have to wait so long to vote. WTF do the require you to vote on..a stone tablet?

"I'm sorry sir, but your carvings on the stone aren't quite deep enough...could you please re-mark all of your choices?"

DDAWD said...

Ok, I've looked at the site. Where exactly does it say that those three states have over 100% of the 2004 vote? NC seems to be the max of those three with 40%

Simon said...

Hey guys,

Off topic but,
Biden said in the VP debate that McCain has voted for 4 out of 5 of George Bush's budgets. Anybody have the numbers for how many Biden or Obama voted for?

I just want to find out the answer. Curiosity... you know...

6 days 1.5 hours

sfergus483 said...

Also, when Crist was prominently mentioned as a running mate, it was widely reported that the fundies were livid because of his orientation. They certainly believe it.

(dearma - WV)

LAT said...

newsinOH--yay pie! I so agree with you he should talk more about pie. we like pie.

About neoconservativsm--exactly no economic/social component. It is all about projection of power abroad. Those who advocate these kind of economic policies are called neo-liberals. The religious ones are called theo-cons.

It is true though that the neocons and the theocons came together in a sort of awkward alliance because of the Israel thing (re Irving Kristol meets Pat Robertson back in the last 70s)

Clarissa said...

DDAWD- The numbers are 2004 *EARLY VOTE* that he is comparing 2008 early vote with, not the final tally.

Heather Nordquist said...

@ddawd
>100% of the AA 2004 votes

Justin said...

Thank you sfergus483..
You have induced enough question into my mind. I'm hopin on an Air-Tran flight to FL right now! lol...
God where the F was I when all this talk started...I feel ashamed as a gay man/liberal.

(BTW, as I'm typing this Sarah McLachlan's commerical popped on. If you can please donate to save helpless animals in shelters. www.helpaspca.org)

imadis said...

I, imadis, says Real Joe's surprise. . . .

Joe=He

Eric said...

InkStain said...
"Fiscal conservatism makes sense in many respects. That said the new breed of Conservatives, symbolized by W and his crew are not fiscally conservative. I disagree with them 99% on foreign policy, 100% on social values, 99% on fiscal policy. Call it whatever you want. I'm not for trickle-down economics. I'm not for aggressive preemptive wars and I'm not for any of their social policy at all."

We'll try this again :)

Neoconservatism has *no* social or fiscal policy. It's strictly a school of thought on American foreign policy.


Ink,

I don't have a problem with you pointing out my gaps in thought or lack of understanding in certain areas. I'm not a know-it-all and appreciate the insight. Bottomline is what I first understand Conservatism to be as I think Goldwater and Buckley would have described it has been bastardized IMO. They threw out all of the good parts. This new breed of Republican I'm the polar opposite of in my ideology. As in, you know Opposite George on Seinfeld. If you took the exact opposite of what Bush/Cheney would do, that's my platform. I used to believe I was a lean left dem, but what's happened to the Republican party over the last 15 years or so is awful to me. Preemptive War/Bush Doctrine stuff is appalling to me. This, I assume is what is the "Neo-Conservatism" you refer. I'm also 100% against the social values that Karl Rove has pushed to get the Evangelicals to run to the polls and guns issues and oh by the way a $10 trillion debt from the "fiscally conservative" party that spends our money by mortgaging our future, but we have nothing to show for it and never do. I also disagree with them on every other major issue. So, i'm calling Neo-Conservatism, this nasty new Party and that's not the right word for it. Sorry about that.

newsinOH said...

john,

I, too, never waited for more than a couple of minutes to vote. Then I served as an attorney for Kerry in the last election, in an urban polling location. It was appalling.

Not enough voting booths and the worst poll workers in the history of elections. In the 'burbs, the retired folks work the polls. Not so elsewhere. It's people who will take the work for one day but who have very little skill or experience in handling a task that can be as complex as a challenging election.

Because of that, I promised myself that I would do whatever was necessary to be able to work at future elections, requesting that I be placed in an urban polling location.

PorridgeGun said...

You reap what you sow, bitches!

Anthony Kennerson said...

Delurking once again....

As much as I would love it to happen, there just isn't any way that BHO's carrying Louisiana...not even with a vastly upgraded and motivated Black vote. The virtual ethnic cleansing of New Orleans after Katrina basically destroyed the political networks which usually provided the foundation of Black voter turnout there, and the Black vote in other parts of the state are simply too spread out and diffuse to make much of a difference. Plus, the evangelical vote in the North and the Catholic Cajun vote down in South Louisiana has turned pretty hard to the right of late; even the Democrats who do get elected there are pretty far to the right (see Congressman Don Cayazoux, who represents the Baton Rouge-Livingston-Donaldsonville area, for an example of such a "John Breaux Democrat"). I just can't see Obama gaining much strength beyond the Black community here.

That doesn't mean, though, that if McSame/Caribou Eva Braun do melt down further, and BHO does do the improbable and flips Mississippi and Georgia, that it's not beyond the possibility that LA could be flipped as well. I just don't see it happening right now....Texas would probably flip long before we do, and if that happens, we are approaching Reagan-Mondale 1984 "SuperLandslide" levels. (Gee, wouldn't that be nice.)


Anthony

Vinny said...

Seeing this link disappointed me (because I wanted Hillary to run in 2016), but it should at least shut the scarce remnants of PUMAs left up.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7297

Tom said...

Voted this afternoon in Roswell, GA (took 2 hours). Demographics for this area are (roughly) 80% white, 10% African-American, 10% Hispanic.

I'd estimate that 40% of the people in line were black. Which is pretty stunning. I did not see many Hispanics; maybe 5% or less.

Oh, and according to the poll workers, the lines were much longer yesterday; 3-4 hours. There are some local news reports of 12 hour lines yesterday (which is beyond absurd).

Davy said...

@matthew & nate

As an Oregonian (who already voted for Obama) and a campaign volunteer, I think you're going to see a sizable win for both Obama and Merkley for Senate. Gordon Smith (R incumbent) is a good guy who has leaned across the aisle but I think you'll see a shift. Most of those who will vote Democratic are in the populous I-5 corridor. There is a strong Libertarian crowd in the mix but I think the current distaste in politics will overcome it.

newsinOH said...

ddawd,

The stat on early voting compares early voting this year to total early voting in 2004. For example, in 2004, approx 12% of Cuyahoga County Ohio voted early. This year, it's already over 24%.

America4US said...

I heard on Ed Schultz program today that despite the rotten weather out in PA, Obama still had his rally and 9000 turned out. What did McCain do? He cancelled his because of bad weather. You know what I call McCain? WIMP-O! By the way, I did early voting today in my county, which is experiencing record early voting turnout. I darkened that little oval next to OBAMA. Don't forget about Obama's 30 minute tv ad tomorrow.

DDAWD said...

Well, if we are comparing early voting, then just so you know, Louisiana early voting ended today, so the modifier "already" isn't really appropriate.

But still, its 200% of 2004, so its pretty impressive

Troy said...

John, I like your awareness and outrage! I, too, have never had long lines, but I'm in rural WI. A big thank you to all who take so much time!

It is a f**king disgrace that people have to wait in line seven hours to vote. That is incompetence on a Katrina level.
Yes it is.

Why does it take me three minutes and them seven hours?
I think you know...

Can you say realignment? said...

, imadis, says Real Joe's surprise. . . .

Joe=He


Actually, Real Joe's surprise...

Real Joe = Nate and/or Sean

Verification word = thinq- hmmm

sfergus483 said...

Modern neo-conservatives (the movement was started by ex-Trotskyite Irving Kristol in the 1950s because of the Cold War and the formation of Israel; William Kristol is his son) was bolstered by merging with a bunch of ex-Democrats from the hawkish Henry Jackson wing of the Democratic party (Jeane Kirkpatrick, Paul Wolfowitz) who entered the Reagan administration. It is an international movement with many British, Canadian and Australian members (David Frum, Bush axis of evil speechwriter, who has been prominent Palin basher, is a Canadian who became a US citizen only last year; so was press baron, now in prison, Conrad Black).

Their alliance with the fundies, people like Grover Norquist et al is a marriage of convenience grafted together by Karl Rove.

Josh said...

John, I've never had to wait a long time to vote either. I don't understand how the system could be set up so poorly. It shouldn't take anyone more than like 15 minutes (at most) to vote. There has to be some better way of doing it. Election reform should be on the table.

Ask McCain/Palin This Question.

newsinOH said...

john,

One more factor with long lines now is that the sites for early voting are limited--not as many as on election day in most states.

In Cuyahoga County, for example, an in-person ballot can only be cast at the Board of Elections. They're doing a tremendous job moving people through, but it's one place.

I know that a lot of AA are going to the Bd of Elections because they are so sure something will happen to screw up their votes. They want to scan it themselves, early. Good for them--they've been gamed forever.

Tim said...

This is good news and I hate to be a rainy day but I am not sure that this is all that big of a deal. In 2004 87% of AA's voted. Only 2 mil REGISTERED AA's stayed home for the 2004 election.

Now, there are likely more registered AA's today than there were in 2004 and many of the few who voted Bush are likely to vote Obama.

With that being said, what we are seeing now is most likely a function of AA's voting today instead of Nov 4, which in the grand scheme of things isn't all that big of a difference.

The Latino vote is probably going to have a bigger impact than the AA vote unless the AA REGISTRATION numbers have been increased dramatically.

Davy said...

@kenyada

I have referenced your posts previously. I hope your Mom is doing well and that she got to vote. I think it is one of the most important vote in this campaign.

newsinOH said...

sfergus

Their alliance with the fundies, people like Grover Norquist et al is a marriage of convenience grafted together by Karl Rove.


So what should we properly call this evil alliance of convenience? I can think of plenty of terms, none would play on broadcast TV . . .

Susan said...

Stumbled upon worrisome post at HillBuzz, Oct. 25, 2008

I was having dinner a night ago with a friend of mine who is a statistician for a well-regarded private polling company. They do some work for Republicans in California, but most of the work they do is for Democrats or Democrat leaning operations (Unions, etc.). Anyway, her shop was retained to do a few Presidential polls for targetted states on behalf of a union so the union could decide where to spend their ad dollars for the last week. They did Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Missouri. After mocking the hell out of the voter id spreads used by Rassmussen, Zogby, etc. (and this is coming from a committed Dem who will be voting for Barry O) she said the results of their polling lead her to believe that McCain will definitely win FL, OH, NC, MO and NV. She says Obama definitely wins New Mexico. She said that Colorado and New Hampshire were absolute dead heats. She said she thinks there is a 55% chance Obama holds on in Pennsylvania and a 75% chance McCain wins Virginia. She absolutely laughed at the public polls showing Obama leading Virginia–and pointed out that all of those polls rely on Dem turnout being +4 and as much as +7, when in 2006, Republicans actually had the advantage by +3. She also pointed out that the numbers for Obama in SWVA look absolutely awful and that McCain is running 10 points better then Allen did in NoVa.

Anyway, her companies conclusion is that the election will come down to Colorado, New Hampshire and the Republican leaning district in Maine, which in her opinion might very well decide the Presidency (apparently the district in Nebraska that Obama thought he might be able to get is now off the table). She said she has very little doubt that the public polling is part of a “concerted voter suppression effort” by the MSM. She said IBD/TIPP was the only outfit doing public polling that was “worth a bucket of warm piss”.

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/hey-eeyores-another-take-on those-polls/

Could somebody talk me down?! Thanks!

Davy said...

@kenyada

P. S. I hear the drums

Anthony Kennerson said...

OK...that would be Cazayoux....sorry.

Oh...and to all the right-wing trolls (MuleRider, He, Jack-be-thimble, et.al.) that are still hanging on to the fantasy of McSame/Caribou Eva snatching victory from the jaws of defeat due to the efforts of Diebold and Ashley Hill and Joe the Plumber....I simply have this to say:

The scoreboard on November 4th will tell it all. You can sing it, guys, but can you bring it?? Barack Obama is Tiger Woods, and you will be the golf ball he hits into the cup. Bring your worst, because it just won't matter this time; there's more of his voters than there are of you; and we have lawyers, too.

See you next Tuesday, fools.


Anthony

ralphhaven said...

John said...

According to Michael McDonald's terrific website African American voters yah mo b there.

Well done.

Justin said...

Yeah here is your talk-down...
Your friend is full of shit....that's as basic as it comes, "my friend"

newsinOH said...

susan,

It's a crappy urban rumor. Bad source--don't go there. Zogby's got the worst demographics and his polls are more promising than that.

InkStain said...

"So what should we properly call this evil alliance of convenience? I can think of plenty of terms, none would play on broadcast TV . . ."

At the moment? Republicans.

Seje said...

susan said...
Stumbled upon worrisome post at HillBuzz, Oct. 25, 2008

Susan can you name a union that has a significant presence in Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Missouri and Maine's second electoral district?

I can't.

dkan71 said...

Whoo hoo! I'm black and I live in Phoenix, Arizona, which just may be turning blue...and I got my ass out to vote early just in case I came down with a cold or got strep on election day or something (jk).

newsinOH said...

susan,

that article is so ridiculous that even Beelzebub himself doesn't buy it:

http://www.rove.com/election

LAT said...

sfergus, news, ink

I agree that Rove did much to make this unholy alliance the basis for his 'permanent' majority the alliance dates back to Reagan.
A great documentary about all of this is "Debating the World" with in depth interviews with Papa Kristol plus other luminaries of the Partisan Review where all the neocons got their start (more or less)

CZ said...

@Lisa,

Your niece should register and vote AND DO JURY SERVICE. They are both part and parcel of our civic duty which sets our nation apart from the vast majority of nations and history. It is a government for and by the people protected by the right of jury by our piers rather than government tribunal. Both protect our liberty and rights. One without the other is woefully inadiquate.

Seretse said...

If 70% of Undecideds break for McCain then we do have a pretty close race.

Redshift said...

Susan:
Stumbled upon worrisome post at HillBuzz, Oct. 25, 2008...

Oh, Noes!!! A post at a rabid anti-Obama blog! I'm sure that's much more reliable than all this public polling data!

Get a grip.

jslater said...

Gosh, I would think that a well-regarded polling company so confident of results that were so at odds with all other polling company would want to publicize their findings, so they could be even more well-regarded. I wonder why they are keeping their findings -- next to which, all other findings are "laughable" -- secret? I mean, if *I* was part of a well-regarded polling company that really had things figured out in a way that nobody else had, I would think it good business sense to make my predictions public beforehand, so I could reap the good rep and business that would follow.

That's what I would do, if any of that were remotely true.

Steve_OH said...

@Andy said...

"Hey, does anyone know what the scenario is in the simulation that's happening 1500-2000 times every day where Obama wins about 380 electoral votes?"

The tallest peak is at 375 (the EVs of the highest peaks are listed below the map). Go to http://www.270towin.com/. The blues plus the undecideds give you 375. Subtract either MO or IN to get to 364 (the next highest peak).

["concl" - Whatever it is, it sounds uncomfortable.]

Jake formerly of the LP said...

Susan= concern troll/ paid staffer. (who calls Obama "Barry O"?)

It's not just black folks that are voting early out of worries over Election Day cheating. I voted early in Wisconsin because A.G. J.B Van Douchebag (GOP, chair of Mccain campaign in Wis.) tried to get people challenged on the basis that driver's licenses and current addresses may not add up. I voted around the second day to keep that garbage from even coming up with me, and his suit got tossed.

But again, Obama's from Chicago. I think he knows the tricks well, and knows how to make sure the laws are followed and that his rightful victory comes home.

Can you say realignment? said...

Rove and the Neo's played the fundies like... well they played them really well.

Here's hoping that The social and fiscal cons wake up after Bush and Co. send them flailing in the political wilderness for the next few cycles and purge the Neos like Uncle Joe whooping up on Trotsky.

Intersetingly, Bill Kristol has stood by Sarah Pailin and was pimping her hard on Fox for weeks before she was picked, and now he's calling out all the "intellectual cons" for abandoning the ticket. I wonder if it has anything to do with his daughter starting her career in the party (she worked on Fred Thompson's joke of a campaign, not an auspicious start) and him wanting to play a bigger role in things after getting the cold shoulder from the Bushies all these years.

Have any of you looked at the new american century site? Those guys envision a Pax Americana, which sounds great in theory but is so utterly delusional it makes the wildest-eyed radically idealistic Liberals look like soul-dead cynical realists.

After this current debacle, the principle of America comfortably fighting a two front war is revealed for the myth it is. Ironically, these guys have made America weaker by trying to project power unilaterally in the world, and the bad guys know it.

takestock said...

Susan, polling companies are just that, companies. And they won't be in business for future elections if their numbers are way way off, just to benefit the MSM or whomever. BTW, Fox is one of the MSM's showing Obama with big leads.