Like Andrew Sullivan, I think that the Obama campaign has little to lose and everything to gain by encouraging the CPD to have Gwen Ifill to pull out of moderating the VP debate.
It's not that the right's critique isn't utterly transparent, but media backlash was one of the principal dynamics in motivating the Palin bounce in the first place.
But there's another factor here too. In preparing for a debate, you are often preparing nearly as much for the "judge" or moderator as for the opponent. Both campaigns probably have a pretty good idea of what types of questions she is likely to ask, how he is likely to ask them. Palin and Biden have undoubtedly watched videotapes of Ifill moderating the 2004 debate between John Edwards and Dick Cheney.
By changing the moderator, you're throwing everyone a curveball, and catering to the candidate who is better able to adapt on the fly. Which, most likely, is not going to be Sarah Palin.
10.01.2008
Debategate
@ 2:20 PM
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Yeah, that would be interesting. Of course, there's also the argument that Palin has been so terrible in prep that she's less prepared for a specific moderator than Biden is. ;-)
That depends on who you get to replace her.
I agree, take the GOP excuse away.
I agree with your analysis; but, I really like Ifill.
I hate seeing a good reporter get thrown under the bus.
How about Sean Hannity :)
Seriously though - how about Dan Rather?
OT: McCain opening 12 new offices in VA. That brings him to 24 to Obama's 43.
Since you can't turn on a dime for things like this, it obviously doesn't reflect the latest polling, but it's a hint as to where they're planning to put their resources.
Or we could have moderators on a giant rotating table, and you never know who's appearing next.
Up next! It's Paula Abdul!
After that, It's Former Secretary General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan!
I say get rid of Ifill, all it will do is give the conservatives something to whine about, and God knows no one whines like a conservative, they are like third grade girls......
Good debate moderators goe through a tremendous amount of preparation. They have to know the material well enough to fact-check the candidates in real time. Swapping out moderators with one day's notice could have a severe negative impact on the quality of the debate.
That is so evil.
I like it.
Nate,
Replacing Ifill will a random or consensus chosen moderator would definitely disadvantage Palin.
What happens when you replace Gwen with a GOP hack that's already given Palin the questions (and the answers)?
/tinfoilhat
What an awful thing to do to Gwen Ifill. Are any of her colleagues coming to her defense? You know they will consider anyone that is left of Sean Hannity biased.
I disagree - this is about rules and agreements, law and order. If the republicans don't like it even after they've gamed it to death they should go suck an egg.
And it will appease none of them. They'll just try harder again later. Like children they must know the meaning of No.
Likely already noted, but Nate's analysis pointing out the trouble with the Battleground polls is on their front page news stories at the moment.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26973270/
Interpretation: Nate enjoy the game. You've earned it.
And yes, although I love Gwen Ifill, I would make the change to insulate everyone from a quill of GOP barbs....
I guess I agree, although pity the poor moderator who is called in at the last moment -- a no-win proposition. The moderators appear to spend as much time as the candidates, as well as spending weeks ahead of time mulling.
Either way, Gwen's book just got a bounce!
Do they have a runner-up like Miss America? Or they could ask that infamous hot-head Margaret Warner to step in. I bet Palin never heard of her, and she would be up to the challenge on short notice.
Obama has everything to lose because if he did this: He'd look easily intimidated. There's no percentage in giving in to racist garbage.
I read stuff like Sullivan's report and feel like Sam the Lion in The Last Picture Show: I've been around this kind of trashy behavior all my life and I ain't puttin up with it no more. Gwen Ifill is a serious journalist, a professional in every sense of the word. Anyway, the McCain camp already agreed to her as moderator, so where's the complaint?
(not from the UK)
The form, structure, and moderator of these debates is settled by the campaigns after long, tedious, talks. They aren't going to replace her unless she is physically unable to do the job.
Wondering out loud: After watching Obsession (then sand papering my eyeballs and breaking out the mental floss) I have to wonder: Is McCain's plummeting polls numbers linked, in some manner, to this DVD? The timing is there ... yet -- post hoc ergo promptor hoc & all.
At this stage, switching to an unbiased moderator would introduce bias.
After all, there has to be an excuse for how badly it went.
Ergo, the biased moderator must stay. :)
The question is, who can step in at the last minute and do a credible job? On the one hand, Ifill has been preparing for this for a while (since before she broke her ankle), on the other hand the issues and question areas are pretty well known.
As for the wild card factor, again because the issues are pretty well known I don't think that will be a problem.
Maybe we just have Jim Lehrer do it again. Stung by the criticism about letting McCain close, he won't do that again, although this time I would love for Palin to keep closing. And talking. And talking.
Nate,
I think you are showing your youth here and suggesting the kinds of lurching moves that McCain has been doing recently.
Think about it, Nate. Irrespective of Ifill's book, she is a woman. People already have their view that 90% of all AA support Obama. People also have been brainwahed by Fox and The Right (who are really wrong) that it is the media who are doing this McCain/Palin, vs. them doing it to themselves. None of this is going to change!
The KEY ISSUE here, is the format:
- IFILL will ask pretty much the same questions of both. So, any independent person can decide for themselves if there is bias.
- IF another AA was picked, the FOX and conservative hard right would say the same thing!
PLUS IF YOU CHANGED MODERATORS AT THE LAST MINUTE, McCAIN WILL GET WHAT HE WANTS: TO MOVE/DELAY THE PALIN DEBATE A FEW WEEKS!
**THIS IS A SET-UP. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
*THAT"S WHY THEY WAITED UNTIL NOW TO BRING IT UP. SO, Palin does not do well, they can blame it on IFILL.
**It won't work!!!
She could always bow out because of her injury yesterday...
Oprah Winfrey!
They always wanted Palin to talk to Oprah. Here's their chance.
Most of the people who would watch 'Obsession' are already xenophobic. Xenophobes probably break 90-10 towards McCain in this one. Unless they are highly-educated mixed-race xenophobes, but I haven't met many of them.
TOTALLY disagree with Nate and Andrew. It's outrageous to remove Ifill, especially with reference to her race. She's of course ten times as qualified as the person she'll be interviewing. If that lets the Roves of this world shore up the racist vote, so be it. Far preferable to race driven pre-emption. Come on Dems, where are your principles? Obama has the votes to spare.
Palin will crush Joe in the debate
McCain Landslide !!
This is another one of those occasions where Obama needs to be the cooler head and let the repugs back themselves into a corner. Right now they look like whining bullies, afraid while they try to throw their weight around. Obama has nothing to lose by standing by and letting things settle, as long as there is no possibility of collusion between the McCainenites and the CPD. He is getting great respect for knowing which fight to fight and which to walk away from.
Bring on Bill O' the Clown. The right can't complain and no one, not even Hannity or Hewitt could make Palin look good.
RichMerritt.com
---encouraging the CPD to have Gwen Ifill to pull out of moderating the VP debate.---
They'd laugh and say "no."
Maybe Palin can duck out of the debate claiming that the mud people are out to get her.
Maybe they should get rid of Gwen if McCain agrees to get rid of Brokaw.
I'm concerned about this. The GOP is always looking for a built in excuse and Ifill would be just that.
I think the Obama campaign shouldn't have agreed to her in the first place knowing she had this book coming - they should have known the GOP would play this card. You have to expect the worst with these people. They are slime.
I absolutely understand the call to replace her, if for nothing else than to prevent those GOP pundit trolls from saying the debate was biased (Bay Buchanan anyone?)
HOWEVER...
Gwen publicly talked about this book back in August before the debate talks were finalized. If they Republicans had a problem with this they should've made it known THEN. Waiting until two days before to make this a talking point is clearly a campaign scheme, and the media should call them on it and shut them up!
And one more thought- if they do replace her, it should be with another female moderator. You don't want the appearance of two men beating up on a woman.
I don't doubt that Ifill is biased, but I think she'll be fine.
That said, what is your justification for saying, "By changing the moderator, you're throwing everyone a curveball, and catering to the candidate who is better able to adapt on the fly. Which, most likely, is not going to be Sarah Palin."
Why? Haha, she's a stupid baby-generating hick! LOL!
I don't see why the real person wouldn't be able to adapt better than the career politician whose whole career is to prepare (and so is more likely to be thrown off his game by a late format change).
The McCain campaign has been complaining so long about how the media has been out to get them, that at this point it's like crying wolf.
It doesn't matter who the moderator is, the McCain camp will claim the deck was stacked against them. Reality (and the impression of non-neutrality) was never a factor in their claims of media bias.
If Obama campaign asks for Ifill to be replaced, it will only justify the McCain campaigns general hyperventilating about media bias.
It would be a horrible mistake.
“But Fox News reported that the McCain campaign did not know about the book, and suggested that its impending publication distorts Ms. Ifill’s objectivity as a moderator.”
Either:
1) McCain is asleep at the wheel, AGAIN, or
2) McCain shiftily waited until the last moment to cause the maximum amount of damage.
Either way, McCain should never be President.
If they can get Ifill gone, they'll then turn to "the other moderator is not ready". I.E., we have to delay the VP debate. Wait for it.
I thought I was on top of things until this hit. Campbell Brown? Anyone?
---I don't doubt that Ifill is biased---
I agree, she's a woman, Palin's a woman, connect the dots.
On cnn:
'The Dow's is up and down all morning. Foreign markets are crashing. The senate is voting today after sundown on the bailout. Btw: at live grenade was planted next to the Egyptian embassy in DC. Now what do people on the street feel about how the economy is doing?'
I think that answers the question of what it would take move the media to discuss security rather than the economy at this point. Appartenly, bombs would actually have to go off.
WWOD?
(What will Obama do?)
Pretty much what he alweays does. He won't fall for it. He will keep moving forward, relentlessly. No gimmicks. No changes of the rules. He's insulated. They already agreed to her. And she is a consummate journalist.
Gwen Ifill is very well respected, so the press won't echo any Republican memes on this. More likely, they will come to her aid and defend her. Except for the usual buffoons, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh. But it gives them something to talk about that will be a distraction from the distraction.
Whatever we may suggest, Obama is going to keep on keeping on. And the Debate Commission, with the final word, is not going to change.
Of course, this may be a reason for Palin to "suspend" her campaign and not debate. But the public will see it for what it is. More b.s. from Steve Schmidt. I doubt now that guy could successfully pee into a urinal.
Re: Obsession.
Make a good poll question, tho.
We're getting down to micro-demographics now. And the people who fit that profile are usually uninformed, loosely attached voters who make up their minds based on who-knows-what. Something like this, arriving at their home, could very easily tip some of them.
Or not.
'Twould be nice to know if there was an impact or if "The Clarion Fund" - whoever they are - wasted their money.
Is Walter Cronkite still kickin'? Who doesn't like that guy?
"If you never change your mind, why have one>"
So said Edward De Bono. Anyway, I rethink my take on this.
They should stay with Gwen Ifill as the moderator. Reasoning: there will be complaining either way. If you don't change they will complain of moderator bias. If you do change, they will complain of last-minute-rug-pull. So why pander to the complainers. Give them something inconsequential to complain aobut.
That Ifill is biased would not be in doubt were she writing a book on the "historic candidacy" of John McCain and what it means for America, that was due for release on Inauguration Day, 2009.
But it is impossible to be "biased" for Obama, since supporting Obama is the result of rational, right-minded thinking, unclouded by hateful prejudice and divisive thinking. Right, team?
I totally agree with Strageite; I LOVE Ifill and think she would do a great, fair, and impartial job.
But, given the situation, it is best to replace her with someone the McCain/Palin camp can't complain about. I like the idea of Couric, but they could say that Couric has been out to trip Palin for over a week. Andrea Mitchell could be painted as representing 'liberal' MSNBC. I say give them a woman from FOX News, so there's no chance of Palin crying foul. How about Greta Van Susteren?
Let's go with someone Palin's already very familiar with: Katie Couric. THAT ought to work out great for them.
---I don't see why the real person wouldn't be able to adapt better than the career politician whose whole career is to prepare---
Because Palin is far less intelligent than Biden, and far less able to think on her feet.
It has nothing to do with politics, she's just not nearly as bright. Stupid people react more severely to change than intelligent people.
Am I the only person who is behind on this story, and can't find any mention of it in the usual places?
Wouldn't it be a refreshing change if the repugs would simply agree to play by the rules they agreed to play by?
I agree about replacing her. Where is Charlaye Hunter-Gault?
---But, given the situation, it is best to replace her with someone the McCain/Palin camp can't complain about.---
Such a person does not exist.
Sarah Palin doesn't like black people.
Judge Judy?
---Am I the only person who is behind on this story, and can't find any mention of it in the usual places?---
It was the Drudge headline, ie: a fax from Charlie Black sent to all of the GOP controlled media outlets.
By the way, people who look at the Dow Jones are looking at the wrong indicator. This is now playing out in the credit markets. That makes it much more dangerous, because the way things are going you'll see payments not being made, including paychecks.
It's an excuse not to have her debate. "They've all aligned against her - the elite, leftist media conspiracy" so she can't debate.
Or "she needs time to prepare for a new moderator, and we need to now re-negotiate the terms of the debate..."
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Paul Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, Germany, circa World War II
Matthew (and anyone else that missed the main story here...):
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/debate-moderators-objectivity-questioned/
They cant pull her from the debate after McCAins stunt last week, and her horrible week this week.
Goebbels was right - the problem is that McCain couldnt shield the people from the political consequences of his lies.
---By the way, people who look at the Dow Jones are looking at the wrong indicator.---
That's largely untrue. The Dow reacts to information. The fact that this involved the credit markets as opposed to the equity markets is meaningless.
What this says to me; debate prep can't be going very well, babbling Sedona brooks notwithstanding. This is pretty clearly preemptive excuse-making for a bad performance--if she were knocking it out of the park, they'd be very quiet (or, knowing them, taking out an ad to proclaim victory ahead of time).
Why must the media add "gate" to the end of every controversy?
I agree Nate. It won't matter if she's fair or not, if Palin goes down they'll blame Iffel anyway.
Get rid of the scape goat.
Ifill is fine. Try finding a media type who doesn't support Obama (or McCain). Good luck.
I just disagree with the media narrative that Palin is stupid. I guess I'm not a sheep that believes everything he's told. So I disagree that Biden would adapt better to a moderator change. Apparently, since he is "smarter," he would adapt better to anything. Palin is a stupid troglodyte who somehow became governor of her state.
Off topic but where do I find a replay of Nate with Dan Rather?
I'm sick of the McCain. Always trying to throw folks off balance cause he's off balance.
It ain't gonna work. Deal with it McCain.
Nate, and especially Andrew Sullivan should know better.
CPD isn't going to remove her, short of Biden and Palin refusing to show up. Possibly not even then. This is complete fluff blog fodder.
Just saw some examples of Palin Debating.
This is a setup. The woman is actually pretty good.
Michelle Obama "Jazz Hands" video out now.
Obama going down!
sure, swap in keith olbermann
The flagrant phoniness of this complaint is obvious. The format and moderators were chosen almost a month ago. If there were really any doubt about Ifill these could, and should, have been raised back then.
The fact (if it is indeed a fact)that McCain's campaign just learned about Ifill's book within the last several days (at least that's what they're saying) is a demonstration of gross incompetence. This was known before the CPD made these decisions four weeks ago.
It is impossible to change moderators now. This is simply an attempt to explain awayPalin's expected disasterous performance and/or lower expectations even further.
If Obama were to give in to this it would be a proclamation of weakness.
McCain, although getting his attacks in, appears to have stopped short of calling for her replacement.
The best the wing-nuts can get is for Ifill to tone done some questions or to use un-toned down questions as grounds for claiming bias.
It reflects the desparation of the McCain camp. I think this incident will be mild compared to the all out attack mode that will appear shortly. They will make Richard Nixon's early California campaigns look sedate.
---I just disagree with the media narrative that Palin is stupid. I guess I'm not a sheep that believes everything he's told. So I disagree that Biden would adapt better to a moderator change. Apparently, since he is "smarter," he would adapt better to anything. Palin is a stupid troglodyte who somehow became governor of her state.---
Due respect, I'd have to guess that you're functionally retarded in some manner. No objective observer could possibly conclude that Biden and Palin were anywhere near equal in terms of intellect or knowledge.
Her being less intelligent *THAN BIDEN* in no is an assault on her ability to win elections in Alska, or to Govern. It's just a statement of fact. If Sarah Palin and Joe Biden take an IQ test, Biden scores higher. If they take a test on US history, Biden scores higher. If they both take the bar exam, Biden scores higher.
If they have a contest involving applying Vaseline to teeth, she kills him, hands down.
This is a "lowering expectations" head-fake and I think the Obama campaign is aware of that (although the punditocracy is not). The problem for Palin is that she's already in a pretty deep hole as far as public perception is concerned.
Hell no they should not change the moderator.
I agree it could be to Biden's advantage, but bowing to the howler monkeys (thank you whoever first used that here) of the GOP and their media outlets is a bad idea.
Let them yell and scream. I don't hear them complaining about McCain's good FRIEND, Brokaw, moderating a debate.
Just because a few fools are making a lot of noise over nothing is no reason to listen to them. We need to NOT allow the Paris Hilton-type mentality determine what should be decisions made by the grownups.
John Peterson said...
"* * * I just disagree with the media narrative that Palin is stupid. I guess I'm not a sheep that believes everything he's told. * * * [including that] Palin is a stupid troglodyte who somehow became governor of her state."
John - Have you ever heard the expression that in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
Long live the bell curve! It's skewed left-sided in Alaska.
Agree with ya, Nate. The moderator is meaningless and Obama has alot of gain from the switch (and that's not just goodwill).
---Agree with ya, Nate. The moderator is meaningless and Obama has alot of gain from the switch (and that's not just goodwill).---
Regardless, it's not Obama's decision, or McCain's.
the switch isn't going to happen.
..but if it did, the only credible person who could be substituted now is Jim Lehrer.
Hmm... continue with what has been a winning strategy so far, or cave to right-wing whiners because they're giving you an excuse to do something where you see a chance that it may help you in some convoluted way. (And crap on an honorable woman in the process).
Pretty much sums up the opposing strategies to a T. I wonder which way Obama will go this time?
Nate: over at the WaPo, you said, the Obama campaign has been playing with a pretty big map, but the one area that they clearly seem to have excluded is Appalachia.
That's mostly true, but not completely true. Obama kicked off his national campaign in Bristol, VA, which is definitely Appalachia (trust me - I lived there for 5 years!) and he and other campaign figures have been back to SW VA a few times since.
At some point it would be nice if black folks said "fuck you" to white folks who project their racism onto black folks, pretending to claim that you can't have one black person give questions to another black person.
And yes, at bottom, that's all they're claiming.
For the record, Ifill has been promoting this book all summer:
AP story July 21: http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/jul/23/smiley-faces-blog-anger/
WaPo story Sept 4: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090303319.html
This is working the refs, pure and simple. And I'm sure Ifill will be well-prepared, I don't want to see her pulled.
Does anyone here enjoy broccoli slaw?
Two things.
First, it's not like switching moderators would be easy at this stage. These people spend a lot of time and effort into studying which questions to ask and doing general planning and research. A substitute could do the job, but not as well.
Second, McCain himself just said that Ifill is objective and that he doesn't doubt that she will be fair and act like a professional. This attack on Ifill is coming from the right-wing media, not the McCain campaign. If McCain says she is okay, then I don't see this argument going anywhere. If Ifill actually acts in a bias way, of course, she will be justly criticized.
The Obama camp has just suggested Whoopi Goldberg as the replacement.
Just kidding.
I doubt any other polls are gonna back up Quinnipiac's absurd O+15 in PA that makes no sense when Gallup and ABC say Obama leads by 4 nationally.
Do they eat Broccoli Slaw in Appalachia?
@Van
"Just saw some examples of Palin Debating. This is a setup. The woman is actually pretty good."
Except for... it was on Alaskan issues to an Alaskan electorate. I don't think you can compare. Go look at some of the Primary debates. Biden did very, very well. He has been on a stage at high level before in debates, and knowing how well the Obama campaign has been run so far they are not taking this debate lightly at all.
OK, I give up.
I understand why some people think Palin is stupid.
Why in the world do some people think Biden is smart?
Why in the world do some people think Biden is smart?
MR. RUSSERT: Senator Biden, would you pledge to the American people that Iran would not build a nuclear bomb on your watch?
SEN. BIDEN: I would pledge to keep us safe. If you told me, Tim -- and this is not -- this is complicated stuff. We talk about this in isolation. The fact of the matter is the Iranians may get 2.6 kilograms of highly enriched uranium; the Pakistanis have hundreds, thousands of kilograms of highly enriched uranium.
If by attacking Iran to stop them from getting 2.6 kilograms of highly enriched uranium, the government in Pakistan falls, who has missiles already deployed, with nuclear weapons on them, that can already reach Israel, already reach India, then that's a bad bargain.
Presidents make wise decisions informed not by a vacuum in which they operate, by the situation they find themselves in the world. I will do all in my power to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons, but I will never take my eye off the ball.
What is the greatest threat to the United States of America: 2.6 kilograms of highly enriched uranium in Tehran or an out of control Pakistan? It's not close.
YES! Obama needs to request for a different moderator immediately! You can see the McCain campaign spinning this instantly. At this point, it seems to be there only strategy. Eliminate their excuses!
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
sockpuppet
fu** you
The problem is, the McCain camp has moved to such a position that they will attack the moderator whoever it is.
Keep Ifill. Let the McCain camp continue their assault on the media.
The more they attack the media, the less they can defend territory or attack Obama directly.
Republicans are a bunch of wimps.
What a group of tired old babies.
Debate. Show up at the debate and debate.
Can Repubs debate or not?
I don't think Palin is stupid, just ignorant and lazy. There's a reason she doesn't know anything about national and international issues -- they don't interest her. Her debate prep has been about stretching some mental muscles she has, but has not used for a while, if ever. Remember the old "governing is not rocket science" comment? Well, actually, it is. No way can she learn it fast enough to really debate, and no way can she fake it deep enough or broad enough to make a good showing.
I predict a loyalty test result post-debate -- if you like her going in, you'll find some reason to like her afterwards, and if not, you'll roll your eyes. We are having a dinner party with popcorn and champagne....
Let the eye rolling begin!
101st Post!!
let them cry. waaah waaaah
its the eve of the debate and this is just another stunt.
Ignore it and move foward and let them make fools of themselves complaining and crying wolf every step until election day.
If they do feel the need to have Ifill step aside (I see no reason for it, but Republicans are whiny pieces of work, especially when they're losing), I suspect that Judy Woodruff would be the replacement.
Woodruff is also female, and is also from PBS.
Problem solved.
The McCain campaign is actually very lucky that Gwen is such a straight arrow. The insinuation that she would sacrifice her well earned reputation as a quality reporter just to sell a few books is incredibly insulting.
A lesser person might take their indignation about this to the debate.... ;)
McCain just praised Ifill and says she's staying. Smart move for a change.
Hosting one of these debates is the highlight of a career. Ifill has proven she's qualified and deserves the opportunity. The unqualified white woman, Palin, gets nominated for Vice-President of the United States and enjoys tremendous support, but the black woman, Gwen Ifill, one of the most respected journalists in the country should step down?
It seems the McCain campaign didnt know about Ifill´s book. Obviously, Lindsay Graham was unprepared when he discussed the debates with Rahm Emanuel! Obviously the McCain campaign didn´t do the vetting (again)! Sad, sad, sad. I agree that the Obama campaign could play it safe and just replace her with someone else. But I think it will not be "bad" for the Obama campaign if Ifill stays.
Sorry, don't buy it.
This big bad Gwen bullshit is something that's occupying us and a few pundits on cable TV. If you think swing voters give a fuck or are even aware of this silly nonsense then you're mistaken.
And if the Malkin's and Scarborough's of the world want to march on TV after the debate and tell swing voters that Palin failed because Gwen is writing a book about black leaders and oh, she's black too - it'll do their cause more harm than good.
Remember, the debate is for swing voters and not for the convinced.
Hmmmm... another wrinkle (is that all this campaign is -- wrinkles?). So many journalists coming to Ifill's defense that it may be that no one else would accept the job in protest over her treatment.
Of course, that would mean canceling, or letting Biden go it alone. Oops, I think we've heard that one before somewhere....
What makes anyone think that Obama runs the Commission on Presidential Debates? I doubt if they care what Obama or McCain thinks of Ifill.
Given what we believe we know (thanks Nate), it seems like McCain, the NeoCon pundits and the American Taliban are up to whatever stunts they think will play. The campaign suspension. The postponement discussion around the first debate. And now tossing Ifill under the bus. It's sad. It will be tragic if it wins, but that seems ever more unlikely, despite Real Joe's best Comical Ali impression (anyone remember that guy... "The Republican Guard is in full control.").
But to the matter at hand. We suggest with all things that the appearance of a Conflict of Interest IS a conflict of interest. I cannot imagine that there is not an understudy moderator. Ifill should step down, to remove this tool and let Palin really screw herself with a honky cat moderator like Lehrer.
You know, I wonder if Comical Ali is available for the Republicans to rent. I mean, he already has great optimism in the face of complete adversity and he has a good command of the English word Republican (thanks Republican Guard). Wouldn't he be great on the talk shows.
"Palin has destroyed Joe Biden and is in Full Control of the debate." "McCain is leading a complete route and his Republican undercard will be in Full Control of both the House and Senate. After the victory, they will hunt Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid down." Man, what better stunt.
McCain endorsing Ifill is a safe move since it allows him to be even more "disappointed", "outraged", and/or "shocked" when Palin tanks and he has to line up the scapegoats.
WOW!!!! Is Grampa angry or what?
...snark...
Sorry for the length of this thing but you really have to watch it to see how angry he is!!!
I don't have a problem with replacing Gwen
however, if they're going to try to throw in a Stephanopolous or Brokaw -- Fuhgedaboutit
The White Lady Palin is INCOMPETENT, POORLY EDUCATED and CANNOT put a coherent, complex sentence together either on foreign Policy or the Economy, AFTER be prepped for days by Experts!
SO, what do they do?
ATTACK THE BLACK LADY!!
That's Republican Style, McCain military style! That's what they do to blacks in the military, cut them down to size. Powell being a fairly exceptional exception.
quantman:
Exactly!
Certainly doesn't hurt with the conservative base of the Republican party to attack minorities, or the press.
McCain just praised Ifill and says she's staying. Smart move for a change.
And Palin already said she has no problem with Ifill. This is a non-story.
John Peterson, search for "palin couric interview" on Youtube. This is why people think she is less than capable. Let me know if you have any questions.
Of course, I think the plan was not to replace Ifill, but to intimidate her. It's like working the referees in a ballgame. I think their approach is to let Ifill know they're watching, and hope she'll give Palin some slack to curb anyone suggesting she's not fair.
CNN Battleground state polls:
Missouri: O 48%, M 47%
Minnesotta: O 54%, M 43%
Florida: O 51%, M 47%
Virginia: O 53%, M 44%
Nevada: O 51%, M 47%
:-)
LOOK OUT!!!!! It's a LANDSLIDE!!!!!
(But keep working folks, take nothing for granted.)
what really chaps me is this won't affect Obama in the slightest.
But it's going to affect Gwen Ifill, who has been a rock of non partisan balanced coverage.
It's absolute garbage for them to bring this up now as if she started writing the book two weeks ago.
Well, liberal black female Gwen Ifil is clearly a biased choice in favor of the Obama/Biden side.
Pardon me if someone else has suggested this, but she needs to be replaced immediately, and a by an upper-economic class, white male. Someone without bias.
I suggest Keith Olberman.
Obama asking Ifill to step aside could possibly be a huge political blunder for Obama. After working so hard on his GOTV with the AA vote (among others, of course), asking Ifill to bow out might seriously impact that segment of the vote and have some people so disappointed that they stay home election day.
This idea could help win the debate and lose the election.
I think it could alternatively make plenty of Dems of all races mad and add to their motivation to vote. But it would be nuts to take such an unnecessary risk.
Well, liberal black female Gwen Ifil is clearly a biased choice in favor of the Obama/Biden side.
Pardon me if someone else has suggested this, but she needs to be replaced immediately, and a by an upper-economic class, white male. Someone without bias.
I suggest Keith Olberman.
Now I think that's just sexist. White? Sure. Male? No. That's a bridge too far when you're still courting the Hillary voters.
It should be Rachel Maddow!
(who, despite her political leanings would do a very very good job.)
Quick! Let's give the whiny-ass Republicans whatever they ask for! Maybe they'll stop complaining then....?
Jeez, people, haven't we learned anything? The Reeps will whine because that's their M.O. in all situations. Whine, whine, whine. They have no argument here, just complaints that the ref is against them. At some point, you have to tell the whiny child 'NO!' so that they learn to respect you.
Strongly agree with Eric. This is absurd. MCCAIN AGREED TO IFILL. The Republicans whine--it's what they do. We need the grownups to discipline them and make them take their medicine, not give in to their every little tantrum.
If the Repubs wants to change moderators, tell them in exchange that the format should be changed.
I'm with Marc Ambinder on this one ...
everyone should just roll their eyes and laugh at the McCain Camp tactic
I support McCain I'll be pissed if they swap out Ifill. She's a good moderator and she'll be judged on her performance. If she is biased toward one candidate or the other, it will show.
Who is actually asking that she be swapped out? It seems like it's just a bunch of right-wing bloggers who are commenting that this is just another example of the "left-wing" media.
Something this lame couldn't be the Repubs October surprise, could it?
They've totally lost their touch if so...
heh
Maybe Sander Vanocur is available
My suggestion: Judy Woodruff (sp?), also from pbs, any complaints?
"El Cid said...
Or we could have moderators on a giant rotating table, and you never know who's appearing next.
Up next! It's Paula Abdul!
After that, It's Former Secretary General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan!"
LOL! I'd LOVE to see Kofi Anan asking questions of Sarah Palin:
Kofi Anan: "Madame Governor this question is for you. Ali al-Adeeb of President Maliki's governing Dawa party has stated regarding the question of recent negotiations on the status of forces agreement, specifically on the question of extraterritoriality for U.S. servicemen, that "although the Americans made some concessions in the latest round of negotiations, they are not sufficient, and the latest American text includes expressions that are vague and elastic, and floating and conditional, and they bear many interpretations. He added: "if American soldiers commit any crimes outside of those missions approved by the Iraqi government they are subject to Iraqi law, and without the condition of American agreement."
My question for you Madame Governor is: what is your position with regard to the negotiating position of the Bush administration on extraterritoriality for U.S. servicemen in the newest round of the status of forces negotiations? Would you make any changes and if so, what changes would you propose to meet Iraqi objections such as those expressed by Ali Al-Adeeb?"
Ha! That would be a fun filled exchange!
Gov. Palin: "I'd like to use one of my lifelines now!"
Fuck 'em. Don't give credence to their baseless whining
I agree. It should be a woman. I don't see the Republicans agreeing to Campbell Brown or Katie Couric though.
It seems too late for a "debate over the debate". Philosophically, I also don't like the idea of throwing Ifill under the bus at this point. They had the right to lodge an objection and choose another moderator during the initial negotiations. Why didn't they?
But still I agree. I think the new moderator would probably ultimately be tougher on Palin than Ifill would. No journalist wants to be seen as being in the tank and they all overcompensate. Ifill probably let idea of being a closet Obama supporter get in her head. The new one would fight back against the idea they were handpicked by the McCain campaign.
Also, there would be no way McCain could complain about Moderator #2 after handpicking them to replace Moderator #1.
They want someone new. Give it to them!!
New Rasmussen state polls (August poll):
MS 44-52 (43-56) M+8 (M+13)
TN 39-58 (35-60) M+19 (M+25)
TX 43-52 (44-54) M+9 (M+10)
Mississippi and Tennessee seem to be moving in line with the nation as a whole. A little surprising Texas has not tightened up any more. Regardlesss, if Obama wins any of these, it's a landslide.
I think I see your point. Of course, I do think it may hurt the McCain camp in another way. How can they accurately argue "bias" when the entire debate format and replacement of moderator was done ESPECIALLY for their candidate? They'll look like spoiled divas.
I have watched Gwen quite a bit. She has been especially good when dealing with or commenting on the Imus controversy. I can't imagine a better person to moderate "against" airhead Palin. Ms. Ifill deserves to moderate what will probably be the biggest VP debate event of all time. Go on YouTube and research Gwen's journalism style. She has my vote.
From my blog:
Malkin thinks Ifill is in the tank for Obama
And, later, Nate of 538 argues Obama forces would do well to agree to a new debate moderator, partly because it would throw a curve at the McCain forces, but mainly to avoid massive media spin. Yet more drama. Only, everyone knew this. The McCain campaign went along with Ifill. And McCain himself gave her an OK. This is a Malkin and Company hissy fit.
Nate, I love reading your blog, but you're giving the GOP's overt racism toward Ifill validity by suggesting she recuse herself--or worse, Obama ask her to step down.
Because Ifill is black, and she's writing about blacks in politics, she's therefore biased in favor of Obama. And because Ifill's black, Obama can ask her to step down, and she's going to be cool with that because it's for the black "Cause". WTF?
I'm going to pretend you didn't write this post and continue reading your blog anyway.
Do we have to put up with these children anymore? This is a tangent off the Pelosi made them cry story of earlier in the week.
They are bullies when in power but as soon as the power might be taken away they cry to mommy. If Palin isn't capable of handling questions asked by Gwen Ifill what would she do with Putin?
Let them cry.
Halt!
Has anyone read the book? If Ifill wrote it, its probably a scholarly analysis of the current successes of black politicians.
Who cares what the 30 per cent on the far right have to say. Its the 40 percent in the middle who will decide the election
Book isn't to be published until Jan, 2009.
The only person I'd want to replace Ifill is Judge Judith Sheindlin.
Long time viewer, first time poster...and all that jazz.
First off, props to Nate for having this site.
On the Ifill brohaha: I have to disagree respectfully with you, Nate: in my opinion, the best thing for Obama to do is to just let it ride and let the WATB noisemakers complaining about Ifill's "bias" to scream into the darkness. More than likely, Sarah the FauxMILF will sink or swim on her own without any help or harm of "bias", and there is really no need to upset the apple cart by making such a change so late in the game.
Besides, calling for Ifill's replacement would seriously harm Obama's standing within the Black community...which is already, in some quarters, being questioned due to his general pandering to conservative (if not right-wing) memes about "self-responsibility".
The Repubs have done such a remarkable job of destroying themselves. Why risk putting Obama's own brand into harm by adding to the fiasco?
BTW...if you think that the 538 map looks foreboding, check out the map put out by Dick Morris of late. He has Obama winning by a 350+ EV landslide, with even such Republican locks as Louisiana, Mississippi, and Georgia as toss-ups. And Dick Morris is no liberal, either.
I'm still planning to vote for Cynthia McKinney since she's closest to my personal ideology...but seeing McBush/FauxMILF get their kiesters canned would be no hurt to my heart.
Anthony Kennerson
Lafayette, LA
Call for Ifil to step down? The day before the debate?
Don't be ridiculous. This is a McCain manufactured controversy, one about which Obama has nothing to say. And he won't either
This is bullshit, not a big deal. Don't add to the fire.
Point:
Conventional
Wisdom about VP debate is wrong!
Counter-point:
VP
Debate: The Burden Lies with Biden
Nate - stick to the polls, stats and data analysis. Leave the rumor and spin to huffpost or dailykos
OMG, KO just lit into the McCain campaign on this issue. I was ROFL
Gosh, there goes any pretense of your objectivity. Silly me, I thought this site was about the numbers.
Ok, I gotta add another comment.
Biden has been bullshitting for so long, compared to Palin, that I would not be surprised if he does better with less prep.
Of course, given Biden's history, who knows who he will be plagiarizing at that moment?
Anthony--I laughed when I heard about Dick Morris's new map because just a few days ago he had it skewed far out the other way (he had Iowa and Hawaii if I remember right red, LMAO.)
As far as I'm concerned, both maps show Morris doesn't have a clue and at best is blowing whichever way the political winds go.
Nate,
Sorry, I have to disagree.
It is a parenting issue. The Republicans are throwing a tantrum. You cannot give in to a tantrum, even if you feel you would be better off.
Analogy: Your child whines that he wants to go out for fast food, because the dinner you are making includes broccoli, and he will whine, scream and cry to get out of this. Secretly, you are not crazy about broccoli either, and a burger sounds good to you.
As a parent, you say no, even if you secretly feel it would be better to give in.
In this case, Obama must act like the parent, and say no, despite the fact tht the campaign may feel it would benefit them to switch moderators.
Palin is such an embarassment. That right-wingers defend her just shows how either cynical (if they don't buy their transparent spin) or brainwashed (if they do buy it) they are. I know if the Democrats nominated someone as ill-prepared and ignorant as Palin, most liberals would be outraged, instead of trying to bullshit people about what a great choice she was.
The demand that Ifill be replaced is groundless on the merits, as her book has been known about for months. And to suggest that she be replaced because Biden might get a leg up on Palin as a result is pretty lousy. Obama is starting to run away with this precisely because he doesn't roll that way.
Rush Limbaugh? He's got that feminazi schtick going for him.
"rynato said...
Palin is such an embarassment. That right-wingers defend her just shows how either cynical (if they don't buy their transparent spin) or brainwashed (if they do buy it) they are. I know if the Democrats nominated someone as ill-prepared and ignorant as Palin, most liberals would be outraged, instead of trying to bullshit people about what a great choice she was."
So instead the Libs picked a lying, plagiarizing, racist windbag! Go figure...
This is probably the first post by Nate here that I've solidly disagreed with. This is exactly the wrong tack to take.
If they replace one of the fairest moderators out there with anyone who doesn't work for Fox News, the right is just going to shout "BIAS!" even louder because:
1. Whoever they replace her with probably WON'T have as fair of a track record.
2. The media will have proven to them just how successful their dishonest "working the ref" tactics are, emboldening and energizing the right.
It will be a net loss for EVERYONE but McCain/Palin. This is doubly true if it's someone like (as Sullivan mentions) Couric or Campbell Brown, both of whom the McCain campaign have spent considerable time painting as "anti-Palin/McCain" already.
But let's face it: the time to change moderators was WEEKS ago, not a day and a half before the debate. None of this has a chance in hell of happening. It's all just part of the same old expectation-lowering working-the-ref game the right always plays.
I just never thought I'd see it work so well in a place like this.
I know if the Democrats nominated someone as ill-prepared and ignorant as Palin...
They did. His name is Barack Obama.
They did. His name is Barack Obama.
You know, it seems the more you guys say this, the fewer people there are who actually buy it.
Pull a fantastic moderator like Ifill because the lunatic right website WorldNetDaily says she's baised? I couldn't disagree more. If she gets pulled, the same wingnuts who are screaming bias will be screaming that our side is full of weakling pushovers - and it would be one of those once in a hundred year occassions where these wingnuts would be be absolutely right.
You all appear to be missing the point, that it is a racist book, trying to teach black people to use their race to advantage themselves both monetarily and politically. If a white person wrote the book about white people they would be severely punished. Could you imagine a book being published called the Age of McCain and explaining how white men because of their race can stay dominant for 100's of years if they use the race card succesfully. See the book is about the race card and how African Americans can use it to gain power. It is distinguishing Obama's use of race to propel his carreer from that of a Jesse Jackson and the like. Use race covertly through the system, not overtly through civil rights action. Its brilliant but still racist.
On the moderator issue, why not Jim Lehrer, he is fair and does a good job, and is already prepared since he did the presidential debate. He has left leanings, but these do not pop up in his debate questioning. Who cares if it is Ifill though. Her racist book, and desire for Obama to win, should not effect her moderating, she is more professional than that.
Paygrade said:
You all appear to be missing the point, that it is a racist book, trying to teach black people to use their race to advantage themselves both monetarily and politically.
I really hope your post was snark. If not:
You haven't even read the f*cking book! How do you know it's racist? Oh--wait--because a black woman wrote it. Who's the racist again?
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