10.22.2008

The Bradley Effect, Revisited

I doubt that I get as many e-mails on any single subject as I do on the Bradley Effect. In a feature for Newsweek, I take one last more look at the phenomenon:

There is little doubt Obama is losing some votes due to his race; a recent Associated Press survey suggested that as many as 6 percent of the electorate may be voting against Obama because he is black. But that's not what the Bradley effect is about. As long as those prejudiced voters are telling pollsters that they're going to vote for McCain, their sentiments will be reflected accurately in the polling. The Bradley effect emerges when voters tell pollsters one thing and then do another at the ballot booth.

So the question is why, if a voter does not intend to vote for Obama, would he or she feel compelled to lie about it? There are perfectly legitimate reasons not to vote for Obama; a voter who wanted to vote against him because of his race would have little trouble rationalizing his vote. If a voter felt compelled to lie to a pollster, he might tell them that he was voting against Obama because of his inexperience or his liberal politics—when, in fact, he was voting against him because of his race. But the pollster would still tally the vote correctly in the McCain column. By contrast, in cases where the Bradley effect existed, including Bradley's race itself, the black candidate was as much or more experienced than the white opponent. So voters found it harder to excuse their racism and may have misstated their voting intention to pollsters as a result.
My conclusion?
With so many "X factors" like race, cell phones and turnout, there is probably an extra margin of error this year. And polls aren't terrifically accurate to begin with. But there is no reason to conclude that the polls are systematically overestimating Obama's support; the reverse is at least as likely to be true. McCain, in all likelihood, will need to win this election fair and square—which means that he has his work cut out for him.

435 comments

Kid G said...

1st?

Brandon said...

I'm so tired of pseudo-intellectuals trotting out the Bradley Effect as if they're so damn smart for realizing it may have existed in a few races in the 80's.

Kid G said...

1st! It looks like Obama has hit a new high in his vote % on RCP. Momentum is swinging!!! To John McCain!!!

jlberg25 said...

3rd?

Leigh said...

Great! Now we just have to stop supression of the vote in North Carolina and elsewhere.

Real Joe said...

Good Morning

Zogby looking good for Obama

Kid G said...

Leigh:

I hadn't heard of concerted vote suppression in NC. Do you have anecdotal evidence of this?

Grant said...

Nate, what do you think about an inverse Bradley Effect: Republicans telling their friends and neighbors that they'd never vote for a black guy but then getting in the voting pull and pulling the lever for Obama?

zozie said...

I agree that few racists now feel it is necessary or important to hide their feelings.

Just watch the spewing in the line-up at a McCain rally. Is this the death of political correctness? /snark

rosidae said...

Technically, we can't know about any Bradley effect until after the race. Granted that this is a concern for discussion, but I don't think anyone can make a call on this anytime before the election results come in.

joe said...

Nate spends his days thinking up ways to work the phrase 'my column ran in Newsweek' into conversations with strange women in bars.

Congrats.

Alyssa said...

Except "fair and square" is the newest/oldest problem.

Repub arrested in voter fraud

MysticLaker said...

Haven't see this:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=91fdafc8-d133-4fe3-b651-4d15afd0d335

ME

54-39

Kid G said...

I think the Bradley effect, if operative, will be more than cancelled out in many states by the overperformance of the AA vote. Polls haven't factored this effect in enough because it would be un-PC.

invisible hand said...

If the Bradley effect is that people are somehow embarassed to say they are not voting for a black man, then perhaps there might be insight in comparing human interviews with recorded voice internviews. Presumably, no one cares what a machine thinks and they will answer honestly. So the difference in support between the 2 styles of polls might give us a Bradley effect for Obama.

War Hussein Obama said...

thank you. Now hopefully commenters can STFU about the bradley effect every new thread for a day or two.

histocrat said...

Zogby's bias confirmed!

...

Speaking seriously, I suspect that Powell's bump occurred mainly among Republicans, and that due to his outdated party weighting Zogby's poll magnified its extent. His poll might be the hardest hit by a reverse Bradley effect for the same reason.

Adrian said...

What you are saying is that the net underpolling effect is likely to be in Obama's favour. That makes sense to me, but it does not rule out a race-based effect against Obama of a smaller magnitude than the effects for him. We should rename the race-based effect because obviously the lying to pollsters thing is dead, however there are legitimate concerns by political scientists published in good journals that you have never brought up - such as the trend to omit from polling samples the type of areas where racial bias is strongest.

Base said...

Grant -

I think you have an interesting point about an inverse Bradley Effect. Obviously people votes are effected by their biases. However, I still think that survival and self-interest trump everything. And given the fear in the US over the economy and the realization of the incompetence and morally bankrupt policies of the Bush administration by even many hardened GOP supporters I can see where you could have more people in 'Real America' vote for Obama.

Shall we call this the 'Grant Effect'?

SureshChandra G said...

can some one please ask the people who post 1st ? 2nd? 3rd? not to post here. There are so many people with exceptional comments and i really like this site just for the huge volume of the comments. Also i tried posting some questions and ever time i got an answer and good one too. Love this site. Please do not post useless comments that make people loose interest in reading the comments.
Thanks
SCG

Alyssa said...

Invisible Hand,

Did you read what Nate wrote in Newsweek above?

Sedi said...

It's stunning how many people have misconceptions about what the Bradley Effect is, evidence for its (non-)existence, and the likelihood that it will impact this race significantly. Roger Simon had a great piece in Politico today about Democrats being all depressed about the presidential contest, assuming that something bad will happen and they will again lose the race for the White House. I think the Bradley Effect is propped up as much by nervous Democrats as by scheming Republicans. Of course, the media is its biggest proponent, because it's another reason to pay attention to the election and a factor that, if true, could make the contest closer.

Kid G said...

suresh:

lighten up, dude.

Antmatic said...

Let's look at the two tracker outliers (Hotline and GW)

Hotline
O-47
M-42
This poll has a party weighting of 41-D, 38-R, 21I
Way too tight

GW Battleground
O-49
M-47
This poll contains data from 10/15 and 10/16, which were relative strong days for McCain

GW Battleground should get right by the end of the week, while Hotline will probably remain an outlier.

Fatmop said...

Grant said...
"Nate, what do you think about an inverse Bradley Effect: Republicans telling their friends and neighbors that they'd never vote for a black guy but then getting in the voting pull and pulling the lever for Obama?"

That would be a reverse Bradley Effect. An inverse Bradley Effect would be more like "racists voting Obama and openly admitting it."

I guess that's happening.

SureshChandra G said...

Kid G,
I understand your enthusiasm and the effort you go thru to refresh the page to be the one to post the first comment. I really admire your interest, how about also adding a little opinion of yours in the comment. 1st comment oughta be a good one dont you think?

DaWolf said...

Nate, I'm possibly misunderstanding the Bradley Effect. But I don't agree with your characterisation as people obviously lying - they could, for instance, change their minds due to race BUT have honestly said they were planning on voting for Obama up until then.

Johnny said...

A woman called Sally comes on
wearing heliotrope hair to match her blouse
and she's talking to a shortish man
about this film he's seen professionally.

Between clips the film reviewer gives Sally a little kiss
and then they're wondering about inter-racial sex
and what the public will put up with
whether Belafonte counted.

While they're talking
ten little white boy in ruffs and surplices sing behind choir books
as their West Indian choirmaster looks on
maybe thinking about the Ten Little Niggers
and how things do get to change, but only ever slowly.

There's stained glass all around
an old SS eagle miserable as sin, doubling as a lectern
and seven golden lampstands projecting light.
This is nighttime television
and anything can happen.
A choir boy slips, falls
and then there are nine.



www.johnnygoodyear.com

Bex of Ambridge said...

real joe, your posts have been a source of absolute fascination to me over the last few weeks. They would make such an interesting study of a moderate centerist (don't know if you're registered either party) who's mind has been swayed and gone back and forth. Seems like, although undecideds come in for a lot of bad press, you're constantly weighing the issues.

I know you either haven't decided who to vote for, or aren't telling, (which is your total right of course!) but I do hope that after the election you come on and tell us who you DID vote for!

Have a good one,
Bex xxx

Eric said...

Besides the fact that McCain is way behind according to every metric of measurement, the true problem for him is how to close.

We've got 13 days till election day. The news cycle will likely be very positive for obama from tomorrow into the weekend. Then we are thrust directly into the big prime-time tv purchases... keeping the news cycle for the next couple days.

Then we hit the weekend. The weekend before the vote.

Makes me feel a little bad for Petey

Alyssa said...

sureshchandra g said...



It's annoying yes, but so is the bubbling overflow of self-righteousness on this site. But guess what? We live in America. We can do whatever the hell we want.

Vote said...

If you assume the Bradley Effect will happen (it may not, but as a worst case scenario) with a racial bias of 5%, (as dictated by Princeton) Obama still wins 274, 264.

Minnesota Meta-Polling: Franken riding Obama's coattails to victory

MysticLaker said...

I think there will be one more stunt...I am not sure what it is, but another one...

Fatmop said...

DaWolf said...
Nate, I'm possibly misunderstanding the Bradley Effect. But I don't agree with your characterisation as people obviously lying - they could, for instance, change their minds due to race BUT have honestly said they were planning on voting for Obama up until then.


On such a mass scale that actually affected the Bradley race, I'd say Occam's Razor applies. It's more likely that people were lying than that, en masse, huge numbers changed their minds.

Juris said...

Nate: I'm impressed by the breadth of your reach into the MSM these days. Surely it will lead to some interesting opportunities down the line. But you should take a week or two off to recharge your batteries after the election. Put your blog on a dimmer and get outta the country -- to Europe, perhaps. (But, of course, you'll have the PECOTA's to do when you get back.)

adam said...

Neither the Bradley Effect nor the Reverse Bradley Effect is relevant. If people are going to lie to pollsters, they will likely do it for considerations other than race. Some people just don't like to share their thoughts on a candidate with pollsters...imagine telling a telemarketer something personal like who you'd be voting for?

PorridgeGun said...

Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight.com took a look at all the tracking polls published during the final weeks of this campaign. His overall assessment? “In summation, none of these tracking polls are perfect, although Rasmussen -- with its large sample size and high pollster rating -- would probably be the one I'd want with me on a desert island.”

-- Rasmussen





Ha! What'd I tell ya?



Fuck, it only took Scotty 24 hrs.

PMOC said...

50 words complaining about having to scroll through 1 word posts...oh, nevermind.

dps said...

Nate,
Yesterday I heard Robert F. Kennedy Jr. make an interesting point about The Bradley effect. He posited that it could be due to voter suppression and that black votes were 9 times more likely to have their vote not count, either due to uncounted provisionals or old/broken voting machines. thoughts?

Kid G said...

Blogger SureshChandra G said...

Kid G,
I understand your enthusiasm and the effort you go thru to refresh the page to be the one to post the first comment. I really admire your interest, how about also adding a little opinion of yours in the comment. 1st comment oughta be a good one dont you think?


No, I don't think. Actually, I just happened to come back to this page when this article was first posted. I don't refresh this page obsessively trying to be first. In fact, you will notice that I have never actually even attempted to post 1st before. I just thought it would be amusing. Like I said, I don't mind the inane 1st comment from others a bit...maybe others do. Sorry for irking you all, then; I won't do this in the future. And if you will notice, I subsequently did post my opinion on this article. Suresh, IMO your complaint makes the mood in this thread just a little more uptight. We're all here for good times, well everyone except for Mule Rider.

Blame said...

Nth lol.


Reverse Bradley effect?

Racists ashamed to admit they are voting their wallets? Much more likely. But why not perswade them to come out. It will make them feel so much better.

I am going to get rich selling buttons:

"I'm voting for the Ni**er"

"The Whitehouse ain't in our Nabourhood"

"Send the C**ns to Washington, where they belong"

Alyssa said...

Ohhh helllllllo Scotty!!! Hahaha.


Turd.

Mark Thompson said...

The original "Bradley effect" was a misinterpretation of the data. The California election that it refers to was actually explained away as poor exit poll strategy that failed to account for absentee voting. Also, the newspaper that made the story had virtually ignored the election until the election and misinterpreted how public opinion was changing prior to the vote. Overall, this is a cases that deserves much greater scrutiny.

eve said...

I have been known to yell at the TV when the infamous Bradly effect is referenced as a real concern. I started to post that I hope all the talking heads read this in Newsweek, but it won't matter if they do.

No matter what they know, they will pretend there is the possibility of a Bradley effect. They will be digging deep to come up with scenarios of how McCain could still win. They want an audience from now until late night on Nov. 4. We are in for two weeks of weird theories.

Fatmop said...

kid g wrote...

I don't refresh this page obsessively trying to be first.


Dude, you're busted. We installed a camera and watched every single click of the refresh button over the past half hour. 521 of them.

:P

Darío said...

Scott Rasmussen, President of Rasmussen Reports, noted that “Nate Silver and fivethirtyeight.com are a great example of how the online community is improving election coverage. His quantitative approach is a welcome addition to the debate and a valuable resource for any serious electoral analyst or armchair campaign manager.”

Silver said, “I’m thrilled to be working with Rasmussen Reports in this endeavor. In addition to being one of the most active and reliable pollsters, Scott and his team have made every effort to consider other sources of information in order to provide their readers with the most comprehensive electoral picture possible”.

Kid G said...

Blogger Fatmop said...

kid g wrote...

I don't refresh this page obsessively trying to be first.

Dude, you're busted. We installed a camera and watched every single click of the refresh button over the past half hour. 521 of them.

:P


Damn the Patriot Act!!!

Matt said...

For the poll junkies, the second edition of the Big Ten battleground poll will be released tomorrow at 4PM ET.

InkStain said...

IIRC, the original Bradley race actually involved people refusing to temper their expectations when the polling started to turn against him.

Jeff NYC Dem said...

Nate is straight? Cross another one off the list!

Real Joe said...

CNN-TIME polls coming out today

anbruch said...

The "Bradley Effect" is just the cover name for the "Diebold Effect."

Seriously, there are plenty of good reasons to vote for McCain that no one has to lie about it. I have far more fears about voting machine fraud than I do about systematic lying to pollsters.

The Fly said...

My theory is that if there is a Bradley effect, it has nothing to do with lying. It would more likely manifest itself in the 70% or so people who screen pollsters' phone calls or answer and decline to participate.

takestock said...

If the Bradley Effect exists, it's probably more of a local phenomenon where a racist may be concerned about the possibility that an AA mayor or councilman might attract more AA’s into their community. Obviously, that doesn’t apply to President.

Alyssa said...

iirc? I keep seeing this all over the place. What is that?

acorvid said...

Nice article. Thanks.

Darío said...

Why Obama is polling well in NC, VA and GA?.
reverse Bradley Effect or +95 of the AA vote?.

Kid G said...

anbruch said...

The "Bradley Effect" is just the cover name for the "Diebold Effect."

Seriously, there are plenty of good reasons to vote for McCain that no one has to lie about it. I have far more fears about voting machine fraud than I do about systematic lying to pollsters.


I second this sentiment. Hopefully one of the first things the new Democratic majority (god willing) does is institute more stringent universal guidelines for how elections and counting are carried out.

InkStain said...

"Obviously, that doesn’t apply to President."

Obama will be bringing all his relatives over from Kenya.

Eric said...

Did you hear RFK Jr. talk about voter purging last night on Rachel Maddow's show? I had mentioned the Rolling Stone article he wrote and that I hoped MSM would get him on to talk about it. A smart response I got, was it's so hard to prove and stop that it may be anu nfixable problem at this point. I think they were right. RFK Jr. claimed that t his is the expanation for the so-called "Bradley Effect". He said as an example in the 2004 election there were 2.7 million votes trashed because of names not matching up or no drivers' license match or whatever else the Secretaries of State could come up with. Hem entioned Colorado and said 19.2% of all registrations were trashed as of earlier this year andanother 50,000 or so since. This is hyper-focused on the African-American community. Over 1,000,000 African-American votes were purged in 2004. The focus is entirely on would-be Demorat voters in their targets. African-Americans, 1 in 5 don't have a drivers' license. Hispanics with names that are soemtimes slightly different in Spanish than English, youth and seniors. He mentioned African-American voters are purged 9 times more than average and it's rarely legitimate. Bush Jr. got some of this legislation passed through as an effort to "protect" from what happened in 2000. But, what it really does is give the PubliCONs the ability to steal elections. We need to get a list of names of Secretaries of state in all of the battlegrounds together. Who is a Democrat and who is a Republican? They don't necessarily match up with the party of the Governor. If a state is very close and the elction is in the balance, they have the capacity to steal the state for the GOP and I believe they will. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's the truth. Exit polls are often 3-5% off for the Democrats because their votes get purged after the fact. I don't think McCain has a likely path at this point. But, in a fairly close election, states can be stolen. Colorado may be close because of this. Florida was stolen in 2000 by purging among other things. Ohio, by a combination of voter suppression and purging might have been handed to Bush Jr. by Blackwell. Look into this and report.

Fatmop said...

iirc? I keep seeing this all over the place. What is that?



Integrated Internet Relay Chat.

Er um. Also "If I Recall Correctly."

Blame said...

The real reason for the mistaken Bradley effect was early voting.

That is going to be a problem this time too.

Say 50% of those who say they are going to vote for Obama vote early. That make their votes a certainty.

But what of the other 50%? Do they follow normal likely voter models, or are tho no-shows for the entire 100% concentrated in their number?

I doubt there is precident for early voting in these numbers.

anbruch said...

GW Battleground
O-49
M-47
This poll contains data from 10/15 and 10/16, which were relative strong days for McCain


Except according to the arguments yesterday, this was supposed to bounce back significantly today due to a big day for McCain falling off the back end. I'm not buying it. I think they had a screwy sample on Monday night.

PorridgeGun said...

Here's the understatement of the week...

Battleground and Hotline are in serious danger of looking out of touch. Even Zogby has latched onto recent trends, post-Powell.


Two consecutive outliers for Battleground. Are they going for the Gold in irrelevancy, or are they back to McCain +2 retard levels???

Bry said...

Bin Laden Watch: Al-Qaeda Supporters Endorse McCain

Bwaa? They're either being weirdly transparent, or this is some very clever hacking by Obama supporters.

moondancer said...

The issue for the election now is gooper vote crime and suppression. They are putting more energy into these "fields" than the campaign. I agree with the upthread sentiment that the Bradley effect is GOP crime.

Alyssa said...

Thanks fat

michiganmaine said...

I put this up on an earlier thread not realizing there were new posts. Sorry if you have already read this.....

Nate was mentioned by Nobel-(sort of)-Prize-winner Paul Krugman.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/manipulating-the-future/

What next, a Nobel for Nate?

Kennyb said...

Completely off-topic, but IMO you will see a tightening of the Senate race in New Hampshire. Shaheen did a horrible job in her debate agains Sununu last night. It's as if she cannot speak except in talking points.

Full diclosure: Registered Democrat working on the Obama campaign who did not like Shaheen as governor.

Kid G said...

@kennyB:

Do you think enough people watch senate debates to make a significant difference in the vote?

DanP said...

Landslide warning.

As I expected, Rasmussen is up +2 for Obama this morning.

The Pew poll is not so much an outlier, either, as it is a bellwether for the political tsunami approaching.

In spite of other opinions, I think we are still seeing the Colin Powell bounce which will begin to be reflected in the tight battleground polls today or tomorrow.

That, coupled with the cell-phone-only effect being worth at a minimum two points, leads me to look again at the distribution of results in Nate's model.

Look at the big clump of blue results are 375+ in the model with about 200-180 simulation outcomes for each bin. The model is now saying that a landslide is just about as probable as any other result.

Showing a cumulative frequency distribution would give us a more quantitative view of that, but we can still see this in the results.

In any case, watching what the model says for Indiana, North Dakota and Missouri over the next days will be interesting.

Florida, and particularly Ohio, are just camp followers for the larger influences. Strangely, Missouri again appears to be leading the trend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_bellwether

Beyond that, statistical evaluation of the outcome of this election will likely largely discredit the Bradley effect. In fact, the Obama effect may show the reverse!

At least something fun for Nate to do after a few days sleep...

d pleasants said...

Thanks for your clear and concise explanation of the Bradley effect. for some time now I've believed the pundits have been over over emphasizing it's relevance.

Antmatic said...

Joe - source for the CNN Time polls coming out today?

Alyssa said...

This Al-Qaeda shit is so stupid. Seriously. Stop it.

Leigh said...

KID G:

Are you in the South? Love your use of the word "irked."

Anyway, maybe some of the stories I've heard about supression are not true.
http://www.democracy-nc.org/whatsnew/2008/False.shtml

I have heard from sources in Winston Salem that some have been successfully and fraudulently registering Forsyth county voters as Republicans.

I don't know the details, and whether they were also "helping" folks to vote.

Matt said...

Another Wisconsin poll (Wisc. Public Radio/St. Norbert College):

O: 51
M: 38

A ridiculously long interview period for such a small sample.

Link

Fatmop said...

Grant said...
"Nate, what do you think about an inverse Bradley Effect: Republicans telling their friends and neighbors that they'd never vote for a black guy but then getting in the voting pull and pulling the lever for Obama?"

That would be a reverse Bradley Effect. An inverse Bradley Effect would be more like "racists voting Obama and openly admitting it."

I guess that's happening.

Alyssa said...

Wisconsin is close to lookin like NY in polls.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Has anyone taken into consideration seriously the reverse-reverse-Bradley Affect. The hidden racist claiming to vote for Obama then upon reaching the polls, actually votes for Obama because being racist is just a front to his friends and he finds out at the last minute he's not really racist?

There is also the reverse-reverse-reverse-reverse Bradley affect in which reverse psychology takes affect on one's self.

Real Joe said...

antmatic said...
Joe - source for the CNN Time polls coming out today?


that's what i'm hearing

release after 2 ET

Kid G said...

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Has anyone taken into consideration seriously the reverse-reverse-Bradley Affect. The hidden racist claiming to vote for Obama then upon reaching the polls, actually votes for Obama because being racist is just a front to his friends and he finds out at the last minute he's not really racist?

There is also the reverse-reverse-reverse-reverse Bradley affect in which reverse psychology takes affect on one's self.


Win!

zan said...

Unfortunately, I fear that everyone bringing up the Bradley Effect as gospel are just leading the way to a stolen election. By planting the seeds of doubt in everyones mind, political operatives will be able to manipulate the electronic voting machines to swing towards McCain by 6% and then blame the discrepancy on the "Bradley Effect"

Princeton University was finally allowed to release a study on the popular Sequioa voting machines that showed that not only can such a machine be hacked in 7 minutes by poll workers, but that only one machine per voting location would need to be hacked since vote tampering code could spread like a virus using the "audio cartridges" for blind voters. See http://citp.princeton.edu/voting/advantage/.

The Diebold Accuvote machine are just as vulnerable accoring to another Princeton study. See http://citp.princeton.edu/voting/.

The Bradley effect is nothing but a plausible explanation to cover electronic vote stealing. I'm not trying to sound like a paranoid tin-foil-hat guy -- the threat of vote stealing with electronic voting machines is VERY real.

Real Joe said...



Bachmann denies remarks on Obama

"Despite the way the blogs and the Democratic Party are spinning it, I never called all liberals anti-American, I never questioned Barack Obama’s patriotism"

Matt said...

Bachmann running scared. Time to give El another $50.

Stefan said...

I never get why the Bradley effect is so often couched in terms of "if a voter does not intend to vote for Obama, would he or she feel compelled to lie about it?"

That's not the only the Bradley effect can appear. Instead, voting for a black candidate can create a 'gut level' discomfort or 'yuck', 'not one of us' feeling that just isn't there (or which people can manage to ignore) until they are actually about the pull the voting lever. People may not know they are not going to vote for Obama until they just cannot pull the voting lever for him. No lie required.

brooklynkevin said...

Hey, Nate. Great article. I don't mind that we keep talking about this topic. We will keep talking about it until race is no longer an issue in this country, so probably for a very long time.

On another topic, what's up with the youth vote. Gallup has this out (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111310/Young-Voters-Favor-Obama-How-Many-Will-Vote.aspx).

Nate, do you think that Gallup's approach to this is helpful, or would you use other more recent metrics, such as the youth turnout during the primaries?

Real Joe said...



Is the Race Breaking to Obama?

Link

Bry said...

This Al-Qaeda shit is so stupid. Seriously. Stop it.

I think it should be stupid, but it seems to have made a huge difference in 2004, when cool heads should've prevailed but instead we got a bully for four more years.

Real Joe said...



Fox To Give O'Reilly Over $10 Million A Year

Real Joe said...

i love Bill's show

congratulations to Bill

Real Joe said...



Obama On SNL? Rumors Swirl That Barack Will Be On The Last Show Before The Election

Marathon and Malawi Blog said...

Nate - Why you are wrong on the Bradley effect

Here's how the Bradley effect will work. There is a LOT of literature in the field of political science to suggest this scenario.

Bradley effect: Respondents tell Polls prior to the election that they will vote for a black candidate, but then do not.

Some important points
1. The world is not divided into racist and non-racists, but along a continuum of racial prejudice
2. People can hold conflicting values, beliefs and attitudes.
3. Simplified racial attitudes are made up of (1) cognitive components, (2) affective/emotional reactions.
4. Racial prejudice has both conscious and subconscious manifestations

This is how the Bradley effect will likely impact Obama.

1. Premise the predominant majority of whites hold some degree of racial prejudice. This can be said of most racial groups.
1. A white voter who has some degree of racial prejudice whose interests are best represented by Obama's platform will cognitively understand that an Obama Presidency would be best for his/her interest, e.g, Health Care, Taxes, Consumer and Environmental protection, etc.
2. The white voter will have varying degrees of cognitively held racial prejudice (schemas). In short, beliefs about blacks as demanding, violent, lazy, etc.
3. The white voter will have varying degrees of negative affect/emotional reactions associated with blacks.
4. Those beliefs and affects effect their evaluation of black candidates.
5. When polled, the white voter will mostly use their cognitively held evaluation when selecting a candidate (Obama) because they realize that he best represents their interests.
6. When going to vote, the white voter's beliefs and emotions, both consciously and unconsciously, will increasingly come into play when making "the final judgment". This is because the polls are 'hypothetical' rather than actual.
7. The negative beliefs and affect will cause some percentage of white voters to switch their vote "in the voting booth" to McCain, overwhelming their purely cognitive evaluation based on interests.
8. Very likely, these same white voters (because of social desirability) may in fact report in exit polls that they voted for Obama.

-- Homie

Kid G said...

@Leigh:

Nope, I'm in Jersey. Hmmm...that sounds kind of bad. Given McCain's inept ground game, hopefully that won't lead to a lot of extra votes for him.

Real Joe said...



9 Afghan Soldiers Killed By US Airstrike



blue on blue

:-(

Alyssa said...

real joe, link?



O. M. G. Bachmann is completely BATSHIT CRAZY. I always knew it by seeing her googly eyeballs before this anti-American bullshit but damn....

RWD said...

"Nate - Why you are wrong on the Bradley effect"

So, do you have any actual, specific facts to back up your assertion? Or just 8 speculations?

Carlo Graziani said...

Insofar as the cellphone effect is concerned, it seems to me that it ought to be correctable by pollsters, short of actually calling people's cell phones.

What would be required is data on the universe of people reachable by cell phone, but not by landline: How many of them, their distributions in age, geography, race, income, religion, etc. Then a quick regression tells you how to correct the land-line only data.

I don't know how much of this data exists, or is publically available. However, a gedanken-poll tells me that the age variable clearly favors Obama, income probably favors McCain a hair, other distributional factors are hard to read, and the overall numbers of this universe are too small for this effect to be as important as it's made out to be. Your own gedanken-polls may vary.

InkStain said...

"That's not the only the Bradley effect can appear. Instead, voting for a black candidate can create a 'gut level' discomfort or 'yuck', 'not one of us' feeling that just isn't there (or which people can manage to ignore) until they are actually about the pull the voting lever. People may not know they are not going to vote for Obama until they just cannot pull the voting lever for him. No lie required."

Because such people would be "undecided," and that wouldn't be the Bradley effect.

Alyssa said...

bry,

Al-Qaeda endorses McCain.

Just think about it for a bit.

War Hussein Obama said...

On the Al Qaeda endorsment. I think it should be discussed in the MSM for one reason. Not to condemn McCain, but instead because of the statements made about acts of terrorism before the election in order to help mccain win. People need to be aware that there are threats of terrorism, and the motive, so that it can be prevented, or if it does happen, it will not have the desired effect of terrorists having the final say on our future as americans.

Kid G said...

@Marathon and Malawi Blog:

You just restated the Bradley effect. Your post is based on theory, not empirical evidence.

Eric said...

There is a possibility that Howard Dean and David Plouffe have cracked the nut. I'm not sure if the GOP can counter at all. It's hard to guess if the can in any way duplicate what we're doing in the future in the GOP. I'm certain, the Dems will be doing it for the foreseeable future. I get emails constantly giving me the path to make calls to Ohio or fly there to knock on doors. To go to New Mexico or Colorado or Missouri. If I want a call list, it's at my fingertips. If I want to make a donation, it's easier than ordering something online. Constant touches from the campaign, about 2-3 times a day. 4,000,000+ donors. It's truly remarkable. There's a chance that the GOP won't be able to compete well goingforward. If they demand changes in the system, they won't get them for a while if Dems are running everything. I'd love for the Dems to finally wield the power in this country. It's been too long. community organizer baby, eat it Rudy!

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Alyssa said...

bry,

Al-Qaeda endorses McCain.

Just think about it for a bit."

Maybe one of McCain's lobbyists running his campaign is lobbying for Al-Qaeda?

InkStain said...

"What would be required is data on the universe of people reachable by cell phone, but not by landline: How many of them, their distributions in age, geography, race, income, religion, etc. Then a quick regression tells you how to correct the land-line only data."

I've seen a few attempts at this (I think Pollster.com had one), and they've generally concluded that cell-phone only people are more likely to support Obama even beyond their demographics.

Bry said...

Just think about it for a bit.

Please don't ask me to read your mind. I said "They're either being weirdly transparent, or this is some very clever hacking by Obama supporters."

Option 3, I suppose is that it's a kind of reverse-reverse psychology.

Option 4? It's a fake story.

Alyssa said...

@war
The MSM would never spin it that way.
And please, people are aware.

But this Al-Qaeda endorsement of McCain is so transparent and stupid. WHO FUCKING CARES who they want to see president. People don't care. This is not 2004. Not even close.
Any attention is "good attention" by today's standards. 2 words. Paris. Hilton.

Kennyb said...

KigG, I doubt enough pay attention to the Senatorial debate for it to swing the race, but it got play on NHPR and above the fold on all the newspapers, and no one was exactly singing Shaheen's praises.

War Hussein Obama said...

alyssa, its not spin.

"To help encourage Americans to vote for McCain, the website suggests a major terrorist attack against US interests prior to the election. "

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17374

Kid G said...

Morning Call-PA:
52O-41M

At this rate, McCain would need a 1% point gain per day just to have the Bradley effect(TM) matter.

Alyssa said...

bry,

I wasn't asking you to read my mind.
Nor did I direct my first comment at you directly, only after you responded. I was making a broad statement b/c many others keep bringing it up.

Craig Hickman said...

The media is wearing this story out.

syncbox said...

Nate... How much of the "bradley effect" could be attributed to voter purging and throwaways?

Having recently watched RFK Jr. discussing the real issues of "voter reform" being run by republicans -- where states are using "matching" to purge voter roles and later, after voting, actual ballots...

It seems to me that much of this creates vote loss on the Democratic side... which is often ethnic and low-income voters.

That would include black votes (at some percentage) that might otherwise go to the black candidate. There's no way to know WHICH votes constitute the "6%" or whatever amount is considered the "bradley effect" loss, is there?

brooklynkevin said...

Hey, Nate, you got a cool callout on Stumper: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/

Fatmop said...

I gotta be honest, I've never been personally afraid of terrorists. I've also never been in an attack or anywhere near one, like 99% of the population. Go figure.

Not to be callous to those who lost family members or friends to terrorism, but it simply is not the US's most pressing concern in the world and I wish it would stop being treated as such.

InkStain said...

"At this rate, McCain would need a 1% point gain per day just to have the Bradley effect(TM) matter."

Clearly you aren't familiar with the formula for calculating the Bradley Effect.

Where O = Obama's lead in a given poll
and M = Margin of Error
and BE = Bradley Effect

The formula is

BE = (O-M) + 1

InkStain said...

"Not to be callous to those who lost family members or friends to terrorism, but it simply is not the US's most pressing concern in the world and I wish it would stop being treated as such."

Remember that study floating around the news that showed that people with conservative beliefs have strong visceral reactions to threats, and people with liberal beliefs have weak ones.

Intriguing.

Fatmop said...

"Not to be callous to those who lost family members or friends to terrorism, but it simply is not the US's most pressing concern in the world and I wish it would stop being treated as such."

Remember that study floating around the news that showed that people with conservative beliefs have strong visceral reactions to threats, and people with liberal beliefs have weak ones.

Intriguing.



They're on me! I'm gettin' careless!



Do a barrel roll!

Kid G said...

You know, I've been thinking, and I think a possible real effect in this race might be a new effect which could hurt BHO. In my calling, I have encountered what I would call the ahole effect: people who, upon hearing that I am a volunteer for the Obama campaign, immediately hang up the phone. It got me thinking about the number of aholes who hang up on pollsters, because they are upset that the only reasonable choice in this election is a Arab Muslim terrorist whose middle name is Hussein. What I mean is that perhaps the people who simply hang up on pollsters are overwhelmingly skewed towards McCain. Your thoughts?

Marathon and Malawi Blog said...

Re: Evidence

Like I said there is plenty of studies in the field of political science. My favorite that uses a very simple experiment to obtain empirical evidence of these effects.

The experiment
- single hypothetical candidate with 1 set of policies
- using graphics, slight manipulate skin color (white, light black, dark black) and facial features (Caucasian, Black)
- Results: Differential effects by skin color

Terkildsen, Nayda 1993. When White Voters Evaluate Black Candidates: The Processing Implications of Candidates Skin Color, Prejudice and Self Monitoring." Amer. Journal of Pol Science vol 37, no 4. (avail as PDF online)

Andrew Saturn said...

what's the name of the effect when a lot of the votes are thrown out because the voter is from a black precinct?

Fatmop said...

Like I said there is plenty of studies in the field of political science. My favorite that uses a very simple experiment to obtain empirical evidence of these effects.


The point he was making when asking for evidence was asking for evidence pertinent to this election. We'll get into your experiment in a moment - but basically, you've provided a nice little set of theories that cannot be proven to coincide with reality. Nate and others who have studied the demographics extensively have concluded that the Bradley Effect is unlikely, and you do nothing to refute that.

On to the experiment: Congratulations, you proved that racism exists, not that people will lie to pollsters. Back to square one.

War Hussein Obama said...

the institutional racism effect @ andrew

DanP said...

Other evidence of Democratic momentum:

Reuters/Zogby are now O+2
Research 2000 are now O+2
McCain down to under 14 on Intrade.

Is the election breaking for Obama in a big way? Nice analysis:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/22/72954/496/583/638095

Look for more +O movement in the state polls over the next few days...

Alyssa said...

Thanks for the link war.

I just can't help but laugh at this "terrorist group endorses so-and-so" shit. I do not take it seriously in terms of CREDIBILITY.
Have there been previous terror groups playing "american politics" prior to 2004...? I can't think of any but I'm not a political junkie.
Look, I don't take terrorism lightly... and just to be clear I say this as someone who ran for her life from a dense blanket of suffocating debris, walked almost 2 hours across a bridge to get home, lost a friend, and watched people forced into jumping from the top of the WTC on 9/11. Not that a terror attack can't happen again. They've been talking about that for a while now. But I just think it's absurd, that terrorists are playing american politics.

InkStain said...

M&M

Your study references the effect of race on people's opinions of a candidate. It makes no mention of those effects showing up by polling data being wrong.

Try again?

Bry said...

what's the name of the effect when a lot of the votes are thrown out because the voter is from a black precinct?

Breaking The Law.

Sfuturist said...

I don't think the difference between polling and votes has anything to do with the Bradley effect, I think it has to do with vote fraud. As of today, at least 6 voters in W.V. have reported that they tried to cast a vote for a Democratic candidate, but the machine marked his vote for the Republican challenger instead. Election officials are blaming the voters.

For more info on election fraud see this week's Rolling Stone article Block the vote http://tinyurl.com/5wwnn2 Also watch the documentary The Uncounted that documents election fraud in the 04 and 06 elections. http://www.uncountedthemovie.com/about-the-film.html

Effective ways to protect your vote are to vote early and to refuse a provisional ballot if offered one. See Steal Back My Vote.org http://www.stealbackyourvote.org/

Darío said...

Neither post here.

DaWolf said...

I don't think the difference between polling and votes has anything to do with the Bradley effect, I think it has to do with vote fraud. As of today, at least 6 voters in W.V. have reported that they tried to cast a vote for a Democratic candidate, but the machine marked his vote for the Republican challenger instead. Election officials are blaming the voters.

If they complain straight away, can their vote be changed? Or are they basically forced to vote for the wrong person?

LAT said...

alyssa and others--the McCain camp already has a conference call with journalists and his foreing policy crew to talk about terrorists attacks and endorsements. So they see this either as a problem or an opportunity.

War Hussein Obama said...

i'm with you Alyssa. I think the use of the "terrorist" as a political boogeyman is domestic terrorism in itself.

Sure ,we need to be aware, but how the Bush administration in particular has tried to replace america's sound judgment and reasoning with a visceral fear vote is pretty sad. I hope that its played out this time around and the "terror card" falls flat.

Real Joe said...



McCain can't make attacks stick to Obama
Reuters

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

LOL. Someone tried a citizens arrest on Karl Rove HERE

Real Joe said...



Ralph Nader campaigns in Oregon

Stefan said...

In response to my

"That's not the only the Bradley effect can appear. Instead, voting for a black candidate can create a 'gut level' discomfort or 'yuck', 'not one of us' feeling that just isn't there (or which people can manage to ignore) until they are actually about the pull the voting lever. People may not know they are not going to vote for Obama until they just cannot pull the voting lever for him. No lie required."

Inkstain writes:
"Because such people would be "undecided," and that wouldn't be the Bradley effect.""

Hm, no. People who think they are voting for Obama and then don't are not undicided in polls.

Real Joe said...



Details of Barack Obama’s visit to Central Indiana on Thursday have been revealed.

Obama’s “Change We Need” rally will begin at 11 a.m. at the American Legion Mall in downtown Indianapolis. Gates open at 9 a.m. and tickets will not be required, but those planning to attend are encouraged to RSVP online at www.in.BarackObama.com

Real Joe said...



Daniel Craig: 'Barack Obama Would Make a Good James Bond'

LAT said...

ps I agree that this whole idea that the 'terrorists' prefer one candiate used as a political advantage is silly but this is where 8 years of Bush have gotten us. And McCain has made it a central point of his campaign. That the terrorists ar afraid of him.

PorridgeGun said...

Last time Big Ten polled:


Illinois
Obama 53, McCain 37

Indiana
McCain 47, Obama 43

Iowa
McCain 45, Obama 45

Michigan
Obama 48, McCain 44

Minnesota
Obama 47, McCain 45

Ohio
Obama 46, McCain 45

Pennsylvania
Obama 45, McCain 45

Wisconsin
Obama 45, McCain 44







Expect another set of ridiculous polls from these pranksters. Fuck me, these were only done last month.

InkStain said...

"Hm, no. People who think they are voting for Obama and then don't are not undicided in polls."

Okay. But is there *any* evidence for such people existing?

InkStain said...

"Hm, no. People who think they are voting for Obama and then don't are not undicided in polls."

Okay. But is there *any* evidence for such people existing?

RWD said...

"Like I said there is plenty of studies in the field of political science"

And which of these studies use empirical evidence from actual elections to show the "Bradley effect"? Remember, the Bradley effect is NOT people refusing to vote for a black candidate. The Bradley effect is people saying in polls they will vote for the black candidate, and then not doing it.

Kennyb said...

Sfuturist, I read the article about the West Virginia problems, with quotes from the voters. It seemed like a case of machine error, recognized and addressed (or claimed to be addressed) quickly. And, frankly, the reporter dropped the ball in that he failed to ask if the voters intents were, in the end, wrongly recorded.

War Hussein Obama said...

LDOF, i saw that on CNN last night. Hilarious, i wish she would have gotten the cuffs on him

RWD said...

BTW, folks, thinking back to one of the "Bradley" elections...Wilder in Virginia...remember that, in the end, Wilder did win the election and became the nation's first elected black governor.

So if you somehow think Virginia is too southern and too racist to elect a black executive, think again. Plus, this was back in 1990, almost 20 years ago.

cora said...

morally we are discussing the bradley effect in very neutral terms. This I believe is the problem. There is no effort to simply define the Bradley effect as testimony of a sick society and, therefore, make those who exploit it appear guilty. McCain is going to PA to plainly exploit the Bradley effect - he has allways played on negatives but this is a very subtle negativity. It is a bit as discussing historical consent (which existed) to Apartheid or Nazism in purely technical or sociological terms.

Ken said...

Hey Nate,

How about the Bradley Effect with the favorability ratings? It seems to me that with Obama's sky high numbers there, but not all voting for him, screams people thinking that they can not say they do not like the black guy.

Ken said...

I don't honestly know about the so-called Bradley effect -- it seems more likely that this time there's a substitution effect, with folks supporting McCain because of his race, and saying it's about "ties to terrorists," and other tripe.

I'm more interested in seeing whether there might be bias due to the blocks on polling via cell phones, especially given the strong support among younger people for Obama.

Rightwingsnarkle said...

McCain, in all likelihood, will need to win this election fair and square

Well, then, he's totally fucked, isn't he?

Alyssa said...

Re: Citizens arrest on Karl Rove!!!! Oh man. LOL


And the candy keeps comin!
538: A 1990 New Jack City political crack house.

janna said...

"Remember that study floating around the news that showed that people with conservative beliefs have strong visceral reactions to threats, and people with liberal beliefs have weak ones."

So conservatives are cowards? Fraidy-pants? Running scared?

Seems right to me.

Fatmop said...

morally we are discussing the bradley effect in very neutral terms. This I believe is the problem. There is no effort to simply define the Bradley effect as testimony of a sick society and, therefore, make those who exploit it appear guilty. McCain is going to PA to plainly exploit the Bradley effect - he has allways played on negatives but this is a very subtle negativity. It is a bit as discussing historical consent (which existed) to Apartheid or Nazism in purely technical or sociological terms.

I assumed that was because the general sentiment was "racism is wrong but what can we do about it."

War Hussein Obama said...

i cant wait until election day so we can end or confirm all of the speculation about the bradley effect.

PA John said...

"Ralph Nader campaigns in Oregon"

LOL

RWD said...

"McCain is going to PA to plainly exploit the Bradley effect"

i think this is another example of confusing racism in general with the Bradley effect. You can't really "exploit" the Bradley effect; all it does (if it exists) is to add uncertainty to the polling.

Joseph said...

Excellent writing Nate! Good to see you in Newsweek!

InkStain said...

"i cant wait until election day so we can end or confirm all of the speculation about the bradley effect."

You wish.

"Well, Obama only won by 7 in Pennsylvania, by 2 in VA and he lost by 22 in Kentucky. That PROVES the Bradley Effect!!!111oneoneonewonone!!"

Fatmop said...

"I assumed that was because the general sentiment was "racism is wrong but what can we do about it."

Also, because this isn't a site dedicated to discussing moral quandaries. Head to Daily Kos if you want to tell the world that racism is wrong. Here at 538 the discussion revolves around polling.

InkStain said...

"So conservatives are cowards? Fraidy-pants? Running scared?

Seems right to me."

Either that or liberals are head-in-the-sands wimps who would rather pretend threats don't exist.

one of the two...

newsfromOH said...

Something I'm curious about, sort of related to the topic and previous topics, is the effect on racists of being identified as a racist ala Murtha. Someone out there has to know a dyed in the wool racist so how about a quick, nonscientific, anecdotal survey on this.

At this point in time, I tend to believe that the overt racist don't care about being called a racist and wouldn't lie about it in a poll and aren't going to take offense at Murtha's remarks.

The reflexive racists, those who have the immediate knee jerk fear of AAs generally but, in fact, don't harbor prejudices against minorities they "know" might actually feel great that Murtha said that, they plan to vote for Obama, ergo they aren't racists.

Just random thoughts to toss out there.

Alyssa said...

"Well, Obama only won by 7 in Pennsylvania, by 2 in VA and he lost by 22 in Kentucky. That PROVES the Bradley Effect!!!111oneoneonewonone!!"


HAHAHAHA /snark



Side note: rightwinsnarklepants just one-upped buffalo wing conspirisisisissssist with the best poster name ever.

Carlo Graziani said...

The idea that a last-minute terrorist attack would help McCain is part of the conventional wisdom, but it's probably wrong. It is predicated on the notion that McCain's security credentials trump Obama's, but it neglects the probable reactions of the candidates themselves, and how those reactions would go over with voters.

We already saw the contrast between Obama and McCain in a crisis, at the time of the Meltdown/Bailout fiasco. Obama was steady, calm, measured, reassurring, and obviously working seriously to solve the problem. McCain, on the other hand, was erratic, reckless, bounce-off-the-walls shoot-from-the-hip buffoonish, changing his mind and his positions every day, suspending his campaign, then restarting it, rushing to DC where he made delicate bailout negotiations crash, declaring success, taking credit for Republican House members voting for the final package right before they voted against it, etc. It was a stunt-of-the-day performance, with no underlying reflection or seriousness.

The contrast between these reactions is what impressed itself on the voters, and will almost certainly be recognized as the moment Obama's election became inevitable.

I believe that if there were a late-breaking terrorist attack, the candidates would again run true to their crisis form. Obama would be calm and measured, taking no risks, making sense. McCain would go batshit, making strident, reckless, contradictory statements, and generally looking unstable. And voters would feel confirmed in the judgements they made in late September.

arnieh said...

So, if Nate's ROI is greatest for NH, NM and CO, why is McLame going after PA????

Blue in PA said...

"So, if Nate's ROI is greatest for NH, NM and CO, why is McLame going after PA????"

More electoral votes in PA (and he can focus on one state for them).

NoVa Commie said...

arnieh said...

So, if Nate's ROI is greatest for NH, NM and CO, why is McLame going after PA????

because:


"For better or for worse, our campaign has been fought from tactic to tactic."

-- A senior McCain adviser, quoted in the forthcoming New York Times Magazine.

newsfromOH said...

On the terrorism angle, I don't think we can underestimate the disproportionate response that smaller towns have to this. Living in Cleveland, I was amazed at how fearful people were of future attacks and anthrax. I was constantly reminded folks that the United 93 turned around over Cleveland!!! So not a target . . .

Yet people in even smaller towns are just certain that they might be targeted . . .

Even so, I am positive that the O campaign already has an extensive strategy planned out should something of this sort rear its head (like Putin over Alaska!!)

cora said...

Fatmop said...


Also, because this isn't a site dedicated to discussing moral quandaries. Head to Daily Kos if you want to tell the world that racism is wrong. Here at 538 the discussion revolves around polling.

Fatmop,

polling is about numbers which are a measure of reality. So there is nothing really neutral about numbers unless you believe we should only consider ourselves as passive, if not brilliant, observers. I cannot reason on numbers without anlyzing the phenomena which cause them.

PA John said...

RE: Big ten Battleground

"Expect another set of ridiculous polls from these pranksters. Fuck me, these were only done last month."

I posted a link yesterday to the internals of the PA poll. The party ID breakdown was basically just +1 Dem, in a state thats more than +10 Dem.

These polls are done by the Big Ten universities in those specific states, so basically - you are dealing with a different polling unit in each state.

The good thing with PA polling is the Muhlenburg/Morning Call poll is a very good reference point, as they started tracking this when it was an Obama +4 environment, and it has moved along accordingly.

hurn0003 said...

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

"LOL. Someone tried a citizens arrest on Karl Rove HERE"

When will these silly liberal activists learn...

You have to subdue him before you cuff him, might consider using a taser or an open hand chop to the throat. Only then do you apply the cuffs (or the boot if he continues to resist).

Alas, silly liberals will never learn.

SlipperySlope said...

Could anyone educate me on what constitutes a "trap state" with respect to campaign resource allocation? Specifically, I wonder if it suits the Obama campaign to temp the McCain campaign to over allocate scarce resources into Pennsylvania. There are important down-ticket races in states McCain must surrender if his campaign gambles everything on PA. Is this not a desired result of Obama's expand-the-map strategy?

James said...

There could be no net impact on national polls but interesting (and opposite) local impacts. This is something that's hard to pick up or adjust for in polls.

For example, arguably the "socially acceptable" answer for a white voter in a state which sees itself as quite liberal may be to say to pollsters that you are voting for Obama. Actually, a minority of these people may like McCain for reasons of race or totally unconnected reasons (experience, military service etc). In parts of some states with a greater history of racial tension, white voters may feel some social pressure to back "their" candidate (i.e. McCain). A minority of these may privately prefer Obama for any one of a number of reasons (connection with youth, economic issues etc) and may reflect this in the privacy of the booth.

There may arguably have been some evidence for this in the primary season. It may not swing the national result but it may lead to a couple of surprises in both directions on election night.

shiatt said...

>>By contrast, in cases where the Bradley effect existed, including Bradley's race itself, the black candidate was as much or more experienced than the white opponent.<<

This doesn't make much sense, actually. It speaks only to the question of experience. But someone who didn't want to vote for Bradley could also have said, "He's just too liberal" or "He would raise my taxes" or "He wants to take away my guns." Someone who harbored racial reasons for voting against Bradley (or Dinkins or Wilder) would have had numerous other reasons to offer a pollster.

In fact, people forget that in 1982 there was also a gun control initiative on the California ballot that brought every gun nut in the state out in opposition. Likely these were folks who also didn't like talking to pollsters and were underrepresented in samples.

As the Wilder and Dinkins: I don't know much about Wilder, but re Dinkins: he was a weak, though well-intentioned guy. I would have voted for him, but I can see voters "on the bubble" who decided against him at the end of the day on that basis.

NoVa Commie said...

On family values, a subject Republicans have used to court Christian conservatives and suburban moderates since the 1980s, likely voters now prefer Obama over McCain by 8 points. That's up from 3 points in mid-September.

wow
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/54535.html

War Hussein Obama said...

@ Carlo Graziani
But would we have Time to weigh the reaction of the candidates, say if something happened the weekend before election day?

It would be a time where Obama calm and measure can be perceived as being slow the the punch.

It worked out in the end for Obama with initial market meltdown and bailout, but we went in knowing that McCain wasnt the economy guy, and people were criticizing Obama while the problem was fresh for his hands off approach. If McCain hadnt rushed in an totally bundled the response to the crisis, he could have potentially seized the economy as his issue while Obama stayed back.

It only looked good in reflection, but in an event where conventional wisdom says McCain is the guy to handle national security, a national security event and an immediate reaction from McCain just prior to election day will look like McCain comming to the rescue i'm afraid to many americans who still buy into McCain as the one to "keep our country safe" when they head to the polls.

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Meweb said...

Nate, you did great on Olbermna's show last night. I am greatful for thisw site. I turn to it about 50 times a day. Is it still going to be up after November?

InkStain said...

"polling is about numbers which are a measure of reality. So there is nothing really neutral about numbers unless you believe we should only consider ourselves as passive, if not brilliant, observers. I cannot reason on numbers without anlyzing the phenomena which cause them."

You aren't analyzing them, you are passing moral judgment on them.

There's a time and a place for moral judgment, but this isn't it, generally. Or at least, you can't really wonder why the rest of us aren't doing it.

Seretse said...

Do you guys think McCain will approve the use of Jeremiah Wright?

Robert said...

So while it seems McCain won Joe the Plumber, Obama won Public the Voters :-)

hurn0003 said...

Seretse said...

"Do you guys think McCain will approve the use of Jeremiah Wright?"

Of course he has.

Fatmop said...

Fatmop,

polling is about numbers which are a measure of reality. So there is nothing really neutral about numbers unless you believe we should only consider ourselves as passive, if not brilliant, observers. I cannot reason on numbers without anlyzing the phenomena which cause them.


Ok, fine. Racism is wrong. What can we do about it?

Back to discussing whether the Bradley Effect will play in this election, as the topic of the posts reads.

War Hussein Obama said...

seretse, if he thinks that can potentially win him the election, or even just PA, i think he will.

InkStain said...

"Do you guys think McCain will approve the use of Jeremiah Wright?"

He would if there were people lining up to pay for it. But there aren't. See Politico's article today.

There are 13 days left and voting in some swing states has already reached 1/5th of the expected turnout. It's too late to pull out any last punches.

Kid G said...

Blogger Seretse said...

Do you guys think McCain will approve the use of Jeremiah Wright?


Am I missing something, or does Rev. Wright carry absolutely no weight anymore? I don't understand how bringing him back suits McCain's tactics and strategy.

Seretse said...

I haven't seen any political ads featuring him.

Do you guys think it will be effective?

MysticLaker said...

Everyone should read this article. It's fascinating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html?hp

Antmatic said...

To be honest, I don't think McCain will use Wright. It looks to me like he is going with the Joe the Plumber, no-socialism message or bust.

newsfromOH said...

Just saw Mc's JTP ad here in OH. Distinctly a "Roaches for Raid" commercial.

Forcefield said...

Do you guys think McCain will approve the use of Jeremiah Wright?

I don't think it matters one iota. Every attempt at petty mudlinging and making associations has been EPIC FAIL for McCain (and Clinton, as you may recall).

Clingin to guns: FAIL
Love country for first time: FAIL
SweetieGate: FAIL
Pig Lipstick: FAIL
Ayers: FAIL
Wright: FAIL
Socialist: FAIL
Joe the Plumber: FAIL
Lapel Pin: FAIL
.....

Antmatic said...

If McCain was going to use Wright, he would have done it along with his Ayers push. The earliest he could really introduce Wright would be this weekend (too late), and right now, ad buys are being finalized through the rest of the race.

cora said...

InkStain said...
You aren't analyzing them, you are passing moral judgment on them.

There's a time and a place for moral judgment, but this isn't it, generally. Or at least, you can't really wonder why the rest of us aren't doing it.

I'll take it on your first sentence

On the second: I'm free to wonder as much as I want. Since a few have replied to my post I don't really feel so off topic

Burke said...

Where I'm living, I doubt the Bradley Effect carries much weight. The racists here make their intentions very, very clear.

Seretse said...

InkStain said...
"Do you guys think McCain will approve the use of Jeremiah Wright?"

He would if there were people lining up to pay for it. But there aren't. See Politico's article today.

There are 13 days left and voting in some swing states has already reached 1/5th of the expected turnout. It's too late to pull out any last punches."


1/5th of the expected turnout in total or the expected early voting turnout?

I don't know man, Wright is pretty inflammatory, it's not just another tangential association.

hurn0003 said...

Antmatic said...

"To be honest, I don't think McCain will use Wright. It looks to me like he is going with the Joe the Plumber, no-socialism message or bust."

The question wasn't will he use it. He may or may not use Wright, that will depend on the political winds.

But will he have approved the use of Wright, I believe he most certainly has already discussed it and approved it. He has totally bought into the Rovian style of politics this campaign and he is so desperate to win, I doubt there is much he wouldn't do to win at this point.

War Hussein Obama said...

i hope he does bring back wright.

great way to waste another week and look like a desparate fool going into election day.