As we've done on the sixteenth of every month since June, FiveThirtyEight presents the our final update of battleground states, now a mere 19 days before the election. It is not a pretty scene for John McCain. For Barack Obama, the view looks pretty sweet.
Senator Barack Obama now holds states totaling 286 electoral votes outside the battleground zone. We project 78 more electoral votes to go blue on Election Night, for a total of 364 in Obama's column. West Virginia's 5 votes are pure tossup, and states totaling 169 electoral votes for Senator John McCain.
Again, when you look at the pie chart on the upper left of the page, you see a decimal point to one place on the electoral vote projection. That number comes from the 10,000 daily simulations the model runs. Essentially, it's the final outcome simulated 10,000 times and then divided by 10,000. This monthly snapshot says, if we give 100% of the electoral votes for each state we project into one candidate's column, the final tally would be:
Senator Barack Obama, Democratic Party: 364 electoral votes
Senator John McCain, Republican Party: 169 electoral votes
Undetermined: 5 electoral votes.
Battleground States:
This list has changed dramatically from mid-September. Not only are Virginia and Colorado no longer on John McCain's side of the battleground list, they're in Barack Obama's Penumbra State territory.
Obama Penumbra States:
Due to both movement in the numbers and heavy African-American turnout in southern states, John McCain's Penumbra States are ones he'll need to cross the 150 electoral vote barrier:
McCain Penumbra States:
You'll notice that Nebraska's first congressional district actually appears closer than Nebraska's second district, which we visited at the end of September. In the absence of much public polling data at the specific district level, we may see unexpected predictions like this, but hopefully the district will see more polling.
It's important to notice that New Hampshire is the closest Kerry state, and it's 8.9 points in Obama's favor, barely holding onto the Penumbra State. Iowa, which George Bush won in 2004, is projected at 15.0 points.
Michigan, Pennsylvania, Oregon and Wisconsin, which were battlegrounds in our mid-September projections, are now all double digit spreads. Every one of Obama's penumbra states from that report is now double digits. The red states moving into McCain's penumbra zones are moving there as the newly registered voters begin to get polled. When the Travis County, Texas Democratic Party Coordinated Campaign registers 30,869 new voters in a cycle when Texas isn't supposed to be on the map at the presidential level, something seismic is happening.
The debates are now over. Nineteen days, and America will have a new President-Elect. From every bit of available evidence, that person looks to be Barack Obama, distinguished Senator of Illinois.
10.16.2008
538's Battlegrounds as of Mid-October
by Sean Quinn @ 1:35 PM...see also battleground states, electoral math
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588 comments
I'm looking forward to see what effect the final debate will have on the polls.
But for Kansas and Utah, we'd have a blue bridge linking the coasts and I'd feel comfortable driving it again.
McCain surge ?
can't wait till tomorrow
can McCain comeback & save us ?
joe the plumber is a republican. he says he doesn't need social security or "parents" to look after him.
LOL...who does this guy think he's fooling?
If georgia is the closts of mac's penumbra states, how come it's not lighter red on the projection map in the top-right corner?
err, closest
Real Joe said...
"can McCain comeback & save us ?"
Save us from?
Take that Joe the Idiot Plumber...you want 4 more years of the same Bush BS, go ahead and vote for McSame!!!
This is great news for John McCain!!!
Let me be the first to say,
This update is great news! For JOHN McCAIN!!!1!1!!tilde!backtick1!!
Obama is up 6 in Gallup and has been at 50% or above in the Fox-News funded Rasmussen poll for his longest time ever. Rasmussen has a house effect of at least +4 for Republicans, so Obama is actually up double-digits there once you account for it.
Not to mention that McCain lost every post-debate flash poll last night, with some blue-collar voters calling his performance "vile," "misleading," and even "erratic," and this election is over. McCain is unfortunately not viable because of his shaky judgment, which is shown in his relationships with people like Keating and with Sarah Palin's unpatriotic secessionist husband.
I hope so, make a few calls, talk about policies every chance you get with undecideds, knock on a few doors and just maybe I won't have to buy a place in Toronto!!!
245 electoral votes for Obama *outside* the Penumbra. Getting close to 100% here.
Travis County is a bit of an outlier. It encompasses Austin, the states liberal haven. Obama excitement is big there, so this registration number isn't as surprising as it should be.
The media will try and make this race tight for the next 3 weeks, and the "Comeback" line will be spoken a million times, but its over.
All thats left is margin of victory.
Prediction: the media spends the rest of the week writing McCain campaign obits, the polls tighten by another point or two, the media spends next week freaking out about the "McCain comeback," then Obama's GOTV brings it home with about a 3% popular vote margin.
those numbers hurt
Ouch.
Sean, in the tables presented in this post, "win%" should be changed to margin or spread. For example, the model projects Obama to win Colorado by a 6.4 point margin, but his win% in Colorado is 91%!
The most accurate pollster in 2004 was IBD/TIPP which was off only .4%on the final margin.
The second most accurate in 2004 was Rasmussen.
Today's Rasmussen tracker has Obama ahead by 4 points and yesterday's TIPP tracker had Obama up by 3.
It'll be interesting to see the state polls that come out starting on Monday with 2 weeks to go.
The post debate polls are not accurate. the fat lady is not singing yet. 19 long days left.
This election can turn on a dime. Here is a little tidbit from Frank Gallup:
The "traditional" likely voter model, which Gallup has employed for past elections, factors in prior voting behavior as well as current voting intention. This has generally shown a closer contest, reflecting the fact that Republicans have typically been more likely to vote than Democrats in previous elections. Today's results show Obama with a two-point advantage over McCain using this likely voter model, 49% to 47%, this is within the poll's margin of error. -- Frank Newport
This analysis shows the task McCain faces is really bigger than gaining a point or two in national trackers. This week, polls show Obama is closer to McCain in Georgia than McCain is to Obama in Virginia. Obama's EV advantage is pretty stiff.
keith said...
The post debate polls are not accurate. the fat lady is not singing yet. 19 long days left.
McCain Surge !!!
Joe the Plumber also doesn't believe in paying his taxes considering he owes $1,182.98. What a maverick!
As an Apache Helicopter Pilot in the US Marine Core, I urge all those who love the troops to vote for a hero, John Sydney McCain, distingished war hero and Arizona Senator.
I am here in Iraq, and just the other day as I was parachooting from my Apache Helicopter behind enemy lines to ingage the enemy, me and my Delta Force Marines poled eachother.
The pole results:
John Sydney McCain 100%
Barack HUSSIEIN Obama 0%
Even our token mulatto, Private 1st Class Tyrell Jones, voted for MccCain because he does not want to see his little black children grow up speaking muslim and saluting a communist flag under the dictatoship of Barack HUSSEIN Obama.
McCain is closing the gap. We have momentom on our side. The boy Hussein is toast!
SIMPER FI
JOHN MCCAIN/SARAH PALLEN 08!
PALLEN/HANNITY 12 & 16!
Jack be nimble -
How do you square the "traditional" model with early statistics out of state like Georgia which indicate Obama's base is already turning out in numbers that are closer to the "expanded" model?
Thanks in advance for your answer
Totally beside the point of the post, but it's as relevant here as anywhere:
If you have free time, and you want to ensure the map stays looking as it is, make some phone calls on Obama's behalf. Just go to his website, and you will get a list of names and numbers. You can even surf the web and read 538 at the same time.
Please.
(And to be fair and balanced, if you are a McCain supporter, he'd probably appreciate it if you did the same thing. Start calling those West Virginia voters now.)
Keith said...
"The post debate polls are not accurate."
Based upon?
hurn0003 said...
Real Joe said...
"can McCain comeback & save us ?"
Save us from?
Tax increase
argaen said...
Joe the Plumber also doesn't believe in paying his taxes considering he owes $1,182.98. What a maverick!
i pay my taxes on time
damn!
But in all seriousness, I think the columns headed "Win %" are mislabeled. They indicate the margin one candidate has over the other in that state, not the margin in win %.
This also explains why GA is as red as AL or SC: It's close, but the polls there have been consistent in showing McCain leading there, and thus McCain's win % is 90%. Still, McCain's win % in GA is less than Obama's in NM, and yet NM isn't as blue as CA and NY, for example. So beats me.
I am leaving cautiously optimistic and entering pretty hopeful. Yeah!
Real Joe said...
"Tax increase"
Then I think you mean "Save me."
My taxes for the next couple years at least go down under Obama.
Real Joe - McCain surge - you bet!
My work colleagues thought McCain had his best debate last night when it mattered most (they have been so consumed with the economic crisis they have not been following then election).
The base jumping ship because you're wacked is GREAT NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!
Sean/Nate,
Does the model expect tightening as election day draws closer to be uniform across all states? Why or why not?
Not to be worry mongering, but...
The national polls seem to have tightened quite a bit over the last few days - just noticed the Gallup one saying 49-47 (traditional option) - and the state polls seem to be lagging behind the national polls usually.
So, couldnt we be about to witness a week of significantly tighter races in the state polls, once they start reflecting the tightening?
What Obama needs to make clear is that it is not _just_ that those making less than $250K will not see their taxes go up, but that every single person in the United States will not see their taxes on their first $250K go up either.
So, suppose Joe the Plumbob wants to buy a company worth $280K, which is something close to what he said (assuming that he means that the company earns profits of $280K). If so, the first $250K of those profits are taxed at the old rate, and only the last $30K are taxed at the newer, slightly higher rate. That's an increase in one's taxes, to be sure. But it's not like Joe will be penalized for earning $280K.
"The national polls seem to have tightened quite a bit over the last few days - just noticed the Gallup one saying 49-47 (traditional option) - and the state polls seem to be lagging behind the national polls usually."
Not really. You are focusing on one or two polls and not the majority.
The RCP average is right where it was a few days ago.
SEAN
nice analysis & commentary. you were able to maintain some sense sense of decorum, but geez we all know you must be feeling giddy by the results you posted here...
have a beer & play some poker to celebrate
Every day, I will post early voting #s from Georgia and compare them to 2004 exit polls.
10/16
Georgia
585,398 early votes
212,853 African American voters
Af-Am Voter Percentage: 36.4%
Af-Am Voter Percentage in 2004: 25%
He,
Who are you kidding? You bring up this fake military crap daily. It's Semper Fi not Simper Fi moron. It's from the latin semper fidelis....always faithful.
Hurn 003,
I tried to participate in 3 post debate polls online and by phone, to test the process I tried to vote McCain but got cut off on the phone and had my online score reverted from an A to a F. We have to be careful about this polls.
McCain surge to victory ??
can it really happen ?
if this surge continues i'm getting on the ship
TAX CUT !!!
I can't blame our Republicans friends for focusing on a few cherrypicked national trackers when the real story is in the state polling. Certainly, McCain will be focusing on the national polls in trying to spin a 'comeback' story. Unfortunately for all of you, this is a game for electoral votes, not a point or two on Gallup's statistical rollercoaster. If you keep that in mind, my spare yourself many days of unnecessary anticipation and disappointment.
On that note, Obama posted his best result yet today in the Morning Call tracking poll for Pennsylvania.
would be nice if Sean could interview good ol' 'Joe the Plunger'
find out what really makes him tick & act the phool...
Turns out that as expected, 'Joe the Plumber' is not what he claims to be...
his local paper is checking him out already @
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418
turns out he is not even a licensed plumber !!!
claims his boss discussed 'maybe' selling him the small plumbing company 6 years ago - but he could not buy it anyway since it is illegal to work without a license
plus, 'Joe' [real name Samuel] "He voted in his first primary on March 4 of this year, registering as a Republican."
He won’t say who he will vote for on Nov. 4, but did say he likes Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin.
'Joe' is in favor of Huckabee's flat tax, and only reported earning $40K in 2006 court records [divorce]
In December, 2007, the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against him because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid, but there has been no action in the case since it was filed.
He said he was born in the Toledo area, lived until he was 13 in the Florida Panhandle area, went to Springfield High School, and then entered the U.S. Air Force. He was stationed at an Air Force base in Alaska from 1992 until 1995. He said he was honorably discharged.
Mr. Wurzelbacher also said he lived in Arizona from 1997 until 2000.
-------------------------------------------
Guess the GOPers once again neglected to properly 'vet' or even do any background research on this guy before they made him their newest 'common man' - which he is not...
more bad news to follow as this stoopid story develops into another GOPer embarrassment...
Keith said...
"Hurn 003,
I tried to participate in 3 post debate polls online and by phone, to test the process I tried to vote McCain but got cut off on the phone and had my online score reverted from an A to a F. We have to be careful about this polls."
LOL you are a fool. Get out of here troll.
I was disappointed in Obama's handling of "Joe the Red".
How hard is this to understand: If the nation overspends, you will pay for it ... in sinking currency and/or (as we've seen) in sinking economy. I'd rather get taxed up front so we see who the money comes from and where it goes and can do some voting about it than the slimy repulbican way of just spending, waring but not taxing and so the money bleeds from everything.
Bush was the greatest taxer in our nations history. Period. You will pay much less of your wealth under Obama than McCain EVEN if you, like me, are considered "rich" by Obama.
Duffus Joe just cannot understand that and cannot understand that in a nation with the concept of "the common good", you often do better than a nation with huge divides in wealth and little growth.
We may see tighter state polls if this trend continues; given Obama won last night's debate, that is doubtful.
Anyone who thinks that obama will cut taxes if elected is smokin crack. Oh that's right Obama is the crack smoker.
Obama's only tax cut is a welfare hand out to those who pay no federal taxes and little or no FICA.
His plan raises social security taxes, raises taxes on the small business that create half of the new jobs in the country. What obama doesn't tell you that there are many one man businesses that create no jobs, so not raising their taxes means nothing.
Obama will raise tax on capital and further the road to recession.
McCain should have asked the country last night if they are ready to move ever closer to a socialist nation.
The people McCain is so proud of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0&eurl
antmatic,
Thanks for the numbers. I don't think Obama wind GA unless he already hits 375 and GA pushing him to 390. But he is going to put up ads in GA again from reports and the GOTV never left. I think it could be close and possibly he's looking at down ballot stuff like he is in KY.
Obama winning Georgia (where I grew up): sweet
Obama helping defeat Chambliss: priceless
hincapie,
Are you really going to Chicken Little over LV1? You do realize that the separate RV poll reflects what we've seen in Gallup throughout the year, and hence, there really is nothing for state polls to 'follow.'
Also, the idea that state polls 'lag behind the national trackers' is nonsense.
Possible explosion in Clayton, MO
A possible explosion has led to evacuations of high-rises and businesses in Clayton, Missouri
Dear Trolls,
You would be a little more convincing if you would at least spell check your drivel.
HE said: "me and my Delta Force Marines poled each other."
Can we please keep the gay porn out of this forum?
...not that there's anything wrong with that...
(By the way, did anybody else notice He's slide from mildly amusing satire to broad parody?)
For a married couple filing jointly making between 75k and 100k, with two children, child care expenses, and 100k left to pay on a mortgage, Obama's plan saves the family $1800, while McCain's saves the family a mere $120.
He said...
As an Apache Helicopter Pilot in the US Marine Core
October 16, 2008 12:48 PM
***********
@He
Hi He,
looks like you can't even fly a kite...
Jack be nimble - You didn't answer my question...
friendly reminder to click the advertisers links on this site so Nate, Sean and Brett can make some money.
Rich
Oh, and HE - the Marine CorPS flies Cobras, not Apaches.
I don't think that Real Joe or He are trolls at all--they're some of the most effective parodists I've seen on these sorts of blogs, and the chief reason I read 538's comments.
"SIMPER FI"???!?
I call fake troll **and** fake Apache pilot.
Better trolls, *PLEASE!!*
18 days to go
a game changer coming ??
Just watch out for rigged voting machines, deregistering voters etc... that's all McCain has left.
Hahaha@traffic!
Don't you just hate ignorant trolls?
We all still need to vote (except anyone who already did, or isn't a US citizen), and those of us voluenteering need to keep up the good work and GOTV.
But for anyone with money to contibute, the Presidential race is now looking solid (and if we do somehow lose it, it won't be for lack of funds). So the next place to contribute is trying to get a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate (with, or ideally without, Lieberman), or at least getting close enough that the number of Republicans who need to break ranks to defeat a Republican filibuster is very small. Otherwise, on past experience, the Republicans are just going to filibuster everything out of spite, and in the hope that if they cause continuing gridlock for next 2 years the voters will get fed up with the party in power and vote Republican.
So the place to contribute is the Senate races for:
Franken (MN) https://secure.alfranken.com/page/contribute
Begich (AK) https://donate.begich.com/page/contribute/cconline
Musgrove (MS) http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/18711
Merkley (OR) https://www.mediamezcla.com/campaign_engine/2.0.4/process_cc.php?code=www&id=www.jeffmerkley.com
Hagan (NC) https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/khagan
Martin (GA) https://services.myngp.com/ngponlineservices/contribution.aspx?X=NqjXO81IXYZntPaqXypreP1LqSo0CHUy
And, on the subject of trying to get a filibuster-proof senate majority, what would happen if then-President-elect Obama offered a Republican senator an important position in the new administration, and the senator accepts? Is there a special election (with no incumbent), or is this one of the situations where the state's governor appoints a replacement?
jason said...
I don't think that Real Joe or He are trolls
i'm not a troll
Arkansas = battleground state?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
*wipes tears away from excessive laughter*
Mr. He,
When you say that you "poled" your fellow macho-man marines, you might have made a spelling mistake. You're voting for the wrong guy either way, but McCain/Palin will certainly not defend your rights to pole each other.
I won't be comfortable until November 5. These huge poll numbers just make me nervous.
Also I am really looking forward to a Palin meltdown.
McCain supporters thinking an Obama +7 average is good is GREAT NEWS!!! For BARACK OBAMA!!!!!
(AP) - A high-rise office building in the St. Louis suburb of Clayton has been evacuated after reports of an explosion.
Police evacuated several hundred people from the building just after 11 a.m., and several neighboring buildings were also evacuated as a precaution.
Witnesses told KSDK-TV they saw one person who appeared injured, but that was not immediately confirmed by authorities.
No smoke was visible from the building after the evacuation.
I've been waiting for you to start talking about NE-01. While Omaha has liberal strongholders in some very affluent areas as well as the majority of the less-affluent downtown area, Lincoln has always been more liberal and as such I would assume that if any of the districts were to flip it would be the fighting first
mule rider said...
Arkansas = battleground state?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
we need to see more polls from AR, WV, GA
He:
I know you're a troll, but your posts absolutely crack me up. I have to assume you're intentionally spelling Semper Fi incorrectly to signal that you're in on the joke.
If you're actually serious, then I have a message from the US Army: They want their Apache Helicopter back. The Apache is only deployed by the Army, not the Marines.
Nielsen: 38% of US households watched 3rd debate
Somebody tried to kill their lawyer in Clayton it looks like. Not a terrorist incident.
HAHAHAHA!!WV is a toss-up!! HIlarious
Anecdotal:
My father's girlfriend, who is a lifelong Republican (due to her father's influence), watched a presidential debate last night for the first time in her life. Her thoughts:
She was embarrassed of and for McCain and that she didn't see how anybody could not vote for Obama after watching the two of them.
My boss is a lifelong Republican who has become disillusioned with the Republican party by George W. Bush. He pays pretty close attention to politics and he stated that his mind is made up for McCain after last night's debate.
from the AP report on 'Joe the [not] Plumber'
Joe said, "I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself," he added.
----------------------------------------
speaks volumes as the guy is a total tool !!!
@ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_el_pr/joe_the_plumber
I was with you until you said "distinguished Senator." The only thing he has done as a Senator to distinguish himself is run for President. He's going to win, but he has wasted his opportunities to avail himself of the legislative powers that the state of Illinois provided him with. Lets just hope that he is a better executive than he was a legislator.
Gary said...
He:
The Apache is only deployed by the Army, not the Marines.
*************
excellent point:
game,set,Gary.
;)
Real joe said...i pay my taxes on time.
That, my friend, is because you are a PATRIOT!
Here's a quick Obama vs. McCain tax calculator.
There are more in-depth ones out there if you want to spend the time, but this is a good reality check. Seriously, it only takes a second.
Also, here's Obama's original conversation with Joe the (Real?) Plumber, in which he mentions, among other things, that by eliminating the capital gains tax on small businesses, he in some cases more than offsets the increase.
Sean,
A request that you re-post this analysis the day before Election Day!!
From the St. Louis Post
Unconfirmed reports from workers say a man found a box near his car and it exploded when he picked it up. The man's face was bloody and his hands were blackened by the blast, they say. Workers saw him wheeled away from the structure on a gurney.
Doesn't sound like a terrorist incident. The guy is lucky to be alive still, too.
kennyb said...
Real joe said...i pay my taxes on time.
That, my friend, is because you are a PATRIOT!
:-)
@He - do you have a blog? If so, what is the link? If not, GET ONE NOW - please - love your comments
Just heard Leslie Sanchez dismiss the CNN debate flash poll as "tilted to the Democrats".
Newsflash:
It was a 10 point Democrat tilt. The consensus opinion is that there is an 8 or 9 point tilt in the electorate.
I'm happy to cede the point that perhaps Obama only won the debate by 25 points and not the 27 that the poll said. I don't think that was her point.
I wonder if on November 5, we're going to be hearing "The election was unfair. The voters are tilted to the Democrats"
My favorite quote from last night:
Obama campaign spokesperson David Plouffe: “We came into the debate with two thirds of the American people thinking that John McCain is running a negative campaign, and Senator McCain spent 90 minutes trying to convince the other third.
Tightening in the polls is good.
A little panic in the ranks is good.
Complacency is not good.
Finish the race, folks. 100% effort until Nov. 5.
catsandbeer.com said...
@He - do you have a blog? If so, what is the link? If not, GET ONE NOW - please - love your comments
hahahahhaha
Race over, bookmaker pays on Obama bets!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081016/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_bookmaker_obama_odd
any polls coming out ?
Real Joe
Rasmussen will have Ohio and Oregon #s out at 3. I'll post them here.
I like He. He kills terrorists and doesn't afraid of nothing.
And he poled his buddies, I thought that was still something we didn't ask or tell about.
justsomeguy said...
Race over, bookmaker pays on Obama bets!
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :-(
Nobama is going to lose. Gore was up 10 points in early October and Reagan was down by double digits on October 26th. The new Gallup poll of likely voters has this a 3 point race. Factor in the Bradley effect and Nobama is probably down 3-5 points.America is a center right country and is never going to elect a tax and spend ultra liberal peacenik. You guys can stop dancing in the end zone now.
Real Joe the Plumber ???
WTF
Joe the...WHO GIVES A FUCK, is a McCain campaign plant. Just another stunt to trip up Obama. Has anyone heard this nutjob's views? Josh Marshall @ TPM pretty much nailed it.
thatmarvelousape said...
I certainly hope youre spot on in your predictions.
But I did find more comforting a week or so ago when Gallrup showed Obama +11 on the tracker (+6 now on the favorable one), Rasmussen has moved by about the same margin etc.
Might be noise, might be alterations due to the models etc - and hopefully the debate will give Obama another bounce anyway to put the matter to rest.
As for state polls lagging - in what way nonsense? I seem to have registered it on every single movement - and its kind of common sense as well, given they tend to span more days and come out with a bit more of a delay.
"Are you really going to Chicken Little over LV1? You do realize that the separate RV poll reflects what we've seen in Gallup throughout the year, and hence, there really is nothing for state polls to 'follow.'
Also, the idea that state polls 'lag behind the national trackers' is nonsense."
If you're actually serious, then I have a message from the US Army: They want their Apache Helicopter back. The Apache is only deployed by the Army, not the Marines.
LOL and his "Delta Force" Marine buddies are obviously lost as well.
(Reuters) - Ireland's biggest bookmaker Paddy Power said Thursday it would pay out early more than 1 million euros (782,776 pounds) on bets that Barack Obama will be the next U.S. president, three weeks ahead of the election.
The Dublin-based bookmaker said it made the "unprecedented decision" to pay on bets taken so far, following Wednesday's final campaign debate between Obama and his Republican rival John McCain, which polls judged the Democrat to have won.
"We declare this race well and truly over and congratulate all those who backed Obama," Power said.
"Although he seemed a little out of sorts in last night's final debate we believe he has done more than enough to get him across the line on November 4."
The bookmaker said the overall betting trend had shown "one- way traffic" for the Illinois senator since the start of the summer, with odds shortening to 1-9, meaning a bet of 9 euros is required to make 1 euro profit.
Power said it had taken more than 10,000 bets on the 2008 U.S. presidential election, the majority in support of Obama.
In June a wager of 100,000 euros was placed on Obama to win at odds of 1-2, yielding a payout of 150,000 euros, it added...
(Reporting by Kevin Smith; editing by Andrew Roche)
HOT Damn.
"HE" is playin you guys. He or She is just being hilarious.
gary,
don't be such a douchebag. back up your claims w/ real facts instead of spouting dumb claims that have already been debunked.
i hate people who refuse to accept reality.
stepper said...
Real Joe the Plumber ???
WTF
huh ???
It really has been amazing to watch the McCain electoral strategy completely implode over the last month. The Repugs want to lay the blame solely at the feet of the economy, but the groundwork was laid several days earlier when Palin's first interview (with Gibson) started showing up on TV. The "Palin bounce" began to fade at this point. The McCain "fundamentals" gaffe on Sept 15 started substantial movement toward Obama, but the real nail in the coffin was the first debate -- Obama had a HUGE jump in polls after that because he was able to put fears to rest that he wasn't up to the job.
In other words, the only thing that was holding people back at all was that they wanted to see him in action, to see if he looked credible and presidential. Once that happened, Obama won. Everything after that has ultimately been no more than afterglow as undecideds started to bandwagon.
Oh, completely unrelated point: Anyone else think the Joe the Plumber thing was pathetic? The very idea of calling him "middle class" if he's earning a PROFIT greater than $250,000 per year is just fucking absurd. (And some of the digging others have done does look awfully suspicious, like he might have been a Republican plant; even if not, he still seems to have misrepresented himself because he apparently already owns several businesses, so it's not like he's just a working joe [ha!] who finally saved up enough to buy his place of employment.)
Also, is this guy related to Steve Schmidt?
"Nobama is going to lose. Gore was up 10 points in early October and Reagan was down by double digits on October 26th. The new Gallup poll of likely voters has this a 3 point race. Factor in the Bradley effect and Nobama is probably down 3-5 points.America is a center right country and is never going to elect a tax and spend ultra liberal peacenik. You guys can stop dancing in the end zone now."
Intrade is that way *points*
If you are so confident in your cherrypicked analysis, feel free to go bet your life savings over there. You can get a 5:1 payoff on McCain.
antmatic said...
Real Joe
Rasmussen will have Ohio and Oregon #s out at 3. I'll post them here.
thanks :-)
Factor in the Bradley effect
Boy, it says so much about the state of the right wing that they're banking on closet racism to save this election. lol
Jonger27, what did I say that has been debunked and is false?
Is it possible though--even with his huge advantage--that Obama will lose because of a rigged election?
I know it sounds silly, but I'm not ruling anything out until the race is over.
Everyone in my family knows that I'm a Democrat. My fam could be labeled as either independent or Reagan Democrats, they have voted for both major parties, but this year I was surprised my uncle calling me from Fla and other relatives elsewhere supporting Obama 100% without my influence. Members of my fam don't pay close attention to details, they don't believe that either party can really make any big changes in our lives, but I was surprised on how well informed they are about Obama's tax cuts proposals. I believe this reflects what is happening all across the country. Best thing that has happened is that Democrat nominee Barack Obama decided to fight back. It was about time.
I had to read this post twice.
I'm sort of sad. I want Obama to win, yes, but McCain has run such a poor campaign full of so many errors, that now I guess I don't feel like Obama had a decent enough trial by fire.
I guess the primary will have to suffice for that. I said repeatedly during the primaries to my friends that Hillary's stubbornness was going to guarantee Obama a win, both by keeping him in the public eye and by building the Democratic turnout. I had no idea how spectacular a result that would be, I was not thinking of ground game specifics at all.
Those are pretty amazing stats Nate has up there. The path to 400 is not impossible, add WV and Georgia and you get pretty close, if Georgia falls then Montana and Louisiana might be in reach. And wouldn't that be a perfect line drawn under the Bush years. Louisiana falling into the Dem column.
Some days the GOP just makes me sick:
http://www.sacbee.com/812/story/1314854.html
First, please remember that there are 70 year old grandmothers and 10 year old children reading your posts. Offensive language offends some people. And it may turn someone against your message.
Also, please spread the word, and carry this information with you when you go to vote: if voter fraud or vote suppression is suspected: call the Election Protection Hotline at 866-OUR-VOTE (1-866-687-8683). Their Web site is www.866ourvote.org. They also need volunteers.
You may also want to read the following article on protecting voter’s rights:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=protecting_voter_rights
Oderus Ungerus said...
Factor in the Bradley effect
Boy, it says so much about the state of the right wing that they're banking on closet racism to save this election. lol
Not necessarily. There may be people voting against Obama for his policies but are afraid to say so for fear of being labeled racist by the Obama campaign. After all , Nobama is very astute at playing the race card. Dont take my word for it. Ask Bill Clinton, your hero ......until you found Nobama
Nobama is going to lose. Gore was up 10 points in early October
1) No he wasn't
2) It's mid October
The new Gallup poll of likely voters has this a 3 point race.
And CBS has it as a 14-point race. And R2000 has it as an 11-point race. Your point?
Factor in the Bradley effect
Debunked, even if it does exist, it will be insignificant and minimal.
America is a center right country
Not anymore =)
and is never going to elect a tax and spend ultra liberal peacenik.
The polls disagree with you.
You guys can stop dancing in the end zone now.
Nah ;)
drangnon - great comment. Iirc Obama said recently that he had learned a lot of things from Hillary Clinton, and the NH primary in particular had taught him not to be complacent about poll numbers.
I think this is great news for McCain, from a personal standpoint. Do you see Obama's hair turning gray? And McCain's face swelling and aging before our eyes? Neither of them even have the job yet! Both are serious patriots with empathy for people. This job, this cycle, is going to grind the president down. I'm sure it would kill McCain.
@ Gary
America is a center right country and is never going to elect a tax and spend ultra liberal peacenik
He's not raising taxes for 95 percent of Americans. You can find that info everywhere.
And how many times have Nate said there is no Bradley effect? Go check out http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect
Also, Reagan was down in the polls before the one and only debate he had with Carter.
I like how conservatives are grabbing hold of the probabkly least accurate of Gallup's 3 numbers and claiming it shows how close the race is.
No one should put too much credence in the Gallup Poll for estimations of either a McCain surge or an Obama lead. Gallup has a long history in polling but the accuracy of their projections is not impressive.
Since 1936 with over 18 presidential elections, Gallup's final polls have been off by an average of 3.6 points. They got the popular vote winner wrong altogether in the 1948 and 2000 elections. They showed close elections in 1944, 1952 and 1980 that ended up being blowouts and projected a tight race in 1992 that Clinton won going away.
Nor has Gallup become much more accurate over time. They have been an average of 3.1 points off in their final polling projection since the 1980 election.
Being realistic, looking at WV polls, the only firm that has given Obama an advantage over McCain has been ARG, and their results are usually way off. I think that WV is solid McCain. I wish it wasn't but wishful thinking won't help make it a reality. (((( North Carolina one stop early voting starts today. If you're in NC make sure you early, today if possible. I'll try to vote today, I'm at work right now, the only thing that's preventing me from voting is my job right now)))
Semper Fudge.
I like how conservatives are grabbing hold of the probabkly least accurate of Gallup's 3 numbers and claiming it shows how close the race is.
It's even funnier when they were cherrypicking those M+1 polls and celebrating when all other polls were O+double digits.
Insider Advantage has WV at M+2. It's a toss-up.
In an opinion piece in the WSJ Rove spoke candidly about McCain's electoral hopes claiming his ceiling is 274.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122411909182439021.html
Rove released the McCain/Palin schedule: they will only appear in states McCain is defending: CO, NV, FL, VA, NC, FL and OH. Rove concedes MN, WI, PA, NH, IA and NM. Now out of all of these Obama needs the smallest, NV, to reach 269.
McCain is currently behind in all these states, particularly VA by 7.3, FL by 4.6% and CO 6.4%. My guess is that pollsters overestimate big city turnout and that the actual numbers are lower particularly in VA.
Obama's first three stops after the debate are: NH (he's in for a fundraiser in NY tonight) Roanoke, VA (tomorrow) and St. Louis MO, on Saturday.
I am rather surprised that he maintains his schedule at one event/day. I hope this changes next week particularly given the contrast this can draw with tired McCain. I really think Obama should have a schedule like this:
From next Monday onwards Obama will have 15 days till the election. He needs to spend 10 of them in FL, NV/CO and VA. There's no scenario in which NC, MO or WV fall before VA or OH before FL.
Please have two events a day.
There's been about a 3 day lag between Obama winning these debates and the poll numbers reflecting that. If the first 3 debates are any indicator, don't worry about it until this weekend.
Jonger,
jonger27 said...
@ Gary
America is a center right country and is never going to elect a tax and spend ultra liberal peacenik
He's not raising taxes for 95 percent of Americans. You can find that info everywhere.
I know he's not raising it for 95%. What about the other 5%?
And how many times have Nate said there is no Bradley effect? Go check out http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect
Who cares what Nate says? I prefer to trust history more than Nate.You can never poll people's deepest feelings.
Also, Reagan was down in the polls before the one and only debate he had with Carter.
That's what I said, didnt I? He was down, yet he won the election in a landslide. Kind of like McCain is going to do.
Mike Durham NC said...
"Being realistic, looking at WV polls, the only firm that has given Obama an advantage over McCain has been ARG, and their results are usually way off. I think that WV is solid McCain. I wish it wasn't but wishful thinking won't help make it a reality. (((( North Carolina one stop early voting starts today. If you're in NC make sure you early, today if possible. I'll try to vote today, I'm at work right now, the only thing that's preventing me from voting is my job right now)))"
You ignore the predictive power of Nate's model. It shows WV as a tossup and I am inclined to believe it.
Obama generally holds several events a day, it is McCaina nd Paling that only have one event.
yiannis
Obama has two events on Saturday. He'll be in St. Louis in the afternoon and then Kansas City later that day. He usually has two events per day. Those may be in the same state but still more than one area he's hitting per day. He's in Virginia tomorrow.
Hillary has events in Ohio today and tomorrow.
Jill Biden has two events in Missouri tomorrow.
Joe Biden has two events in New Mexico tomorrow.
Saturday Obama is in St. Louis in the afternoon and KC in the evening.
Those of you responding to He's idiotic posts -- I'm pretty sure they're satirical. They sound like they could have been written by Betty Bowers or Stephen Colbert.
Obama campaign spokesperson David Plouffe: “We came into the debate with two thirds of the American people thinking that John McCain is running a negative campaign, and Senator McCain spent 90 minutes trying to convince the other third."
LMAO. Outstanding!
Maybe a dumb question.
Pie chart:
Obama 353.9
McCain 184.1
Blog:
Obama 364
McCain 169
tossup 5
What relationship does the pie chart have to the numbers shown in the projection in the blog?
The blog made a specific reference to the pie chart. Therefore, it seems like there should be come words to reconcile the different sets of numbers.
I realize this is going to be a landslide, whatever the final numbers. But, am I being picky to ask for some clarity in the numbers on a Web site whose slogan is "Electoral Projections Done Right"?
Hahahaha, it's pretty bad when your ceiling is only 4 EVs more than what is needed to win.
So they've finally given up on the Kerry states + IA + NM. Finally. Now Obama OFFICIALLY only needs 1 toss-up state to win, and he's ahead in most of them. =)
What's weird about the Rove article is that he get's the fundraising wrong....He says $66 million in September. It was $66 million in August. Sept is unknown. You think he would know that.
Gary,
So what's the right percentage for you? 99 percent? 100 percent?
The debates are over and McCain is still behind.
Bradley effect: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95702879&ft=1&f=1001
When has the Bradley effect ever occurred in history?
I don't think it is possible to get 353 EVs, Nate went with the most common outcome of his simulations, the 353 is the average of the 10,000 simulations.
McCain needing ALL of the toss-up states to just barely win is GREAT NEWS!!! For BARACK OBAMA!!!
The pie chart is the average number of electoral votes from the simulation, the mean. The number Sean discussed is more like the median.
obama1fan
The pie chart is an average of all the projections Nate runs. 364 is how things stand today, if all of the state projections work out. (You obviously can't get .9 of an electoral vote!)
Very slow polling day thus far.
MA SUSA:
Obama 59
McCain 35
this just in...
"Joe the Plunger" used to be a woman.
Obama Election Night Party Likely In Grant Park
developing...
LOL, there was no Bradley effect for Bradley himself. His opponent's polling director debunked the whole idea last week. It was nothing but bad polling that didn't take into account absentee voting.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html
Any polling today will be redundant. We want to know what, if any, effect the debate had.
Obama Election Night Party Likely In Grant Park
It's not a done deal yet, but all indications are that campaign officials are leaning toward Hutchinson Field on the south end of Grant Park as the site of their election night party, CBS Informed.
The field is home to softball diamonds, the popular summer Lollapalooza music festival and was the site of the mass pope John Paul held in Chicago nearly 30 years ago.
If Grant Park is chosen as the venue, it would not be the first big outdoor event for Obama. He announced his presidential run outside the old state capitol in Springfield on a very cold day last February and gave his nomination acceptance speech at Denver's Mile High Stadium.
CBS 2 first reported last month that Grant Park was on Obama campaign officials' shortlist. They tentatively decided on it late last week. The negotiations with the city and park district have begun. Security arrangements are reportedly starting to take shape, and Mayor Richard M. Daley reportedly said it was a great idea.
The record low for Nov. 4 in Chicago is 15 degrees. CBS 2 Chief Correspondent Jay Levine asked Chicagoland Chamber of Commerce President Jerry Roper what he anticipated for the night.
"Weather's never a problem Chicago. We know how to handle it," Roper said. "And there'll be a lot of warmth that night, if indeed it does take place in Grant Park."
Roper added that the event would be a "huge economic boost for our city."
"People have been following Barack Obama around the world, and the world will have their eyes on Chicago that evening," Roper said. "With the Pope's visit from 30 years ago, to Lollapalooza, this city knows how to handle big events. … We're prepared."
justsomeguy,
I remember reading that actually the only EV numbers its impossible to get are 1, 2 and 536 and 537. I am not enough of a nerd to check it out (though enough of a nerd to read an article that would include that fact) but it sounds pretty accurate. (Assuming DC has 3 EVs)
Anyone who's taking that TIPP poll seriously should head over to their website, here, and take a look around. Look at the top of their front page: "Are We Ready for Socialism?"
Some of the questions include: "Agree or disagree: The U.S. is evolving into a socialist state?" and "Agree or disagree: I believe it is the government's role to redistribute wealth and income?"
Then go over to their "Americans on the Issues" page and you'll see this question:
In your opinion, generally speaking is "Black Anger"...
Real - 65%
Fiction - 18%
Not sure - 17%
Now, legitimate pollsters do work for partisan clients all the time. But here, TIPP isn't the client, they're the pollster, and they are ludicrously biased.
And also, it's worth noting that even in the most biased, right-leaning poll out there, Obama still has a statistically significant lead.
Based on how polling has gone. It seems McCain's only chance is to stop campaigning. The more people see him and Barbie the farther they fall in the polls.
markymark, you could get that number if you only won a district or two in nebraska, or only lost one or two of the districts there. Maine also.
n September 2008, FiveThirtyEight became the first blog ever selected as a Notable Narrative by the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. According to the Foundation, "In his posts, former economic analyst and baseball-stats wunderkind Nate Silver explains the presidential race, using the dramatic tension inherent in the run-up to Election Day to drive his narrative. Come November 5, we will have a winner and a loser, but in the meantime, Silver spins his story from the myriad polls that confound us lesser mortals."
just read this at wikipedia
Congrats, Nate!
Real Joe
obama needs to have his party on the weekend. doesn't he know people have to work on Wednesday, Nov. 5?
I guess RCP needed a replacement for Battleground since it started to get the numbers right. Their replacement? TIPP.
Based on how polling has gone. It seems McCain's only chance is to stop campaigning. The more people see him and Barbie the farther they fall in the polls.
And if he does that, he runs the risk of turning into Generic Republican in the middle of an anti-Republican year. That isn't much better.
markymark--actually, it's possible to split Nebraska and Maine (although it never does every time we think it might) and get 1,2,536, or 537.
This is to say nothing of faithless electors (John Edwards actually just violated that rule in 2004 by getting one vote in Minnesota.)
wesley, thats true, I think maybe the article wasn't taking into account the fact that sopme states split there EVs like that. And I wasn't awake enough to pick up on it then or now.
AFP:
Former UN chief mulls 'phenomenal' Obama presidency
Link
jonger27 said...
Gary,
So what's the right percentage for you? 99 percent? 100 percent?
Of course, 100%. That's fair isnt it? Would you like it if you had to pay more for a TV or a car or a gallon of milk? more than someone making less than you?
The debates are over and McCain is still behind.
What counts is who is ahead on Nov 5th. Everything before that is just to keep people amused and occupied.
Bradley effect: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95702879&ft=1&f=1001
When has the Bradley effect ever occurred in history?
Ummm...I dont know ....Oh yeah....wait, New Hampshire.
He . . . as a 1LT in the US Army in 1979, I tested the TADS/PNVS system for the Hellfire antitank missile on the Apache Attack Helicopter at Redstone Arsenal, AL. They needed an officer with a Computer Science degree, and it was "tag, you're it," from my Engineer unit for 6 months.
Having tested this device and actually flown in such a helo, I have a serious question - how in hell can you parachute out of one? It's an utter impossibility.
Or are you exaggerating, just like you're hero, Sen. McCain?
jonger27 said...
Real Joe
obama needs to have his party on the weekend. doesn't he know people have to work on Wednesday, Nov. 5?
Obama fans can take a day off
"I remember reading that actually the only EV numbers its impossible to get are 1, 2 and 536 and 537."
That is so obviously wrong, given Maine and Nebraska's split electoral vote possibilities.
I think that was the case of poor polling, Gary.
gary,
There is no evidence that Hillary Clinton's come from behind win in NH had anything to do with the Bradley effect. Much more likely scenarios are the closing ranks of women behind there tearful and (at least in women voters minds) bullied in the debate 2 days before the election, candidate.
There was no Bradley Effect in New Hampshire. Tanenbaum @ electoral-vote.com commented at length on it. The only reason Obama didn't win NH is because Edwards was still in the race.
markymark-
That;s it! McCain needs to cry!!!!!
Hey, quick OT question, you folks would probably know the answer to this, when is Selzer's poll results for Indiana will be released? Anyone have an idea?
gary
i didn't know obama was planning on raising sales taxes on tvs, cars and milk. i must have missed that one.
you were the one whining about how mccain was behind 3 points in the polls, not me.
are you talking about when polls had obama ahead and then clinton won the primary? that's your definition of the bradley effect? a poll that wasn't correct?
last trade on Intrade for Arkansas Dem contract 37.9!
37.9 for Arkansas!!
I hate bringing Joe-the-plumber up again but since the readers of this site also happen to be big fans of numbers:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small_biz_taxes_factcheck.smb/index.htm
justsomeguy,
That would be fun to see. I think it might be regarded even more cynically than Hillary's tears though. Hanoi Hilton couldn't make him cry, but Barack Obama could??
real joe
ya, i'll just run that by my boss. "hey, I'm an obama fan. I need a day off so i can celebrate."
don't think that would go over so well especially since she's a mccain fan.
And lest we forget . . . a lot of NH independents who supported Obama decided that he was up by enough and they decided to vote in the Republican primary for McCain or Romney.
Would people (pundits) STOP with the Bradley effect in New Hampshire nonsense? NONE of the analyses of the NH primary done at the time thought Clinton won because of the Bradley Effect. They all thought that it was her "crying moment" that occurred too closely to the primary to be included in the polls. Plus the polling was all over the map pre-primary, nowhere near as stable as it has been.
Indiana will turn before WV. West Virginia is way more Pennsyltucky than Pennsyltucky.
37.9 North Dakota
37.9 Arkansas
85 Colorado
80 Virginia
WOW!
You'll know that the Obama campaign is worried by the public poll numbers, debate reaction and/or guys lacking in hair/judgment if they release the details on their September haul during the next 3 hours.
loner said...
You'll know that the Obama campaign is worried by the public poll numbers, debate reaction and/or guys lacking in hair/judgment if they release the details on their September haul during the next 3 hours.
Karl Rove said the number was $67 million. I would've guessed more than that. He stated it as a fact in an article released today.
i think the fundraising numbers will be tomorrow...so they can have them out there for the weekend news cycles. monday is deadline anyway.
Some random points:
1) Campaigns always plan for election night rallies. Kerry did in 2004, Dole did in 1996. It's normal. Not sure if we've heard if McCain will be in AZ or Arlington.
2) Don't believe Rove's map for a moment. He's obviously will put VA, FL & CO back to tossup and claim the momentum is changing.
3) There is more poling between Marines than any other branch. It is common knowledge that it is the most gay (although deeply closeted) branch of the military. The most macho parts of any group (military, sports and so on) are always the most gay.
The sad thing is the deluded right wingers here are nothing compared to the ones on Pollsters. Get it through your heads: Bradly Effect doesn't exist and still couldn't make enough of a difference if it did.
67 million was August. Rove is an idiot. If Obama doesn't reach 100 for September million I'll eat my shoe.
A lot of serious political scientists have studied the alleged Bradley Effect and the vast majority have concluded that if it ever existed, it no longer does.
Then again, one is free to believe that a small army of professional pollsters are all wrong and a few internet cranks are right, I suppose.
*****BREAKING NEWS********
John McCain has just replaced Sarah Palin with....
.....
.....
JOE (samuel) THE PLUMBER!!!
"Hey, quick OT question, you folks would probably know the answer to this, when is Selzer's poll results for Indiana will be released? Anyone have an idea?"
Word I have heard is that tonight is the last night of a four-nighter in Indiana for Selzer. The Indy StarNews likely commissioned it. They always publish polls and endorsements on Sundays.
Ummm...I dont know ....Oh yeah....wait, New Hampshire.
FAIL.
Obama's support never went down in NH. Clinton's went up as Dodd and Biden dropped out, and she pulled in their supporters. The "Bradley Effect" would have meant voters saying they were voting for Obama, then didn't. His support didn't move down.
I still have a funny feeling that TX will be a very narrow win for someone.
With big urban areas like Dallas, Houston and Austin, and a huge influx of hispanic and AA voters, I think there is more to TX this cycle...
1) Campaigns always plan for election night rallies. Kerry did in 2004, Dole did in 1996. It's normal. Not sure if we've heard if McCain will be in AZ or Arlington.
Wasilla? Joe the Plumbers basement?
Rasmussen
OR (senate):
Smith (R) - 47%
Merkley (D) - 47%
Last month:
46-45 Smith
Link.
What's most amusing about the direction of this thread is how, a week ago when the polls were showing double-digit leads, the wingnut refrain was that the polls could not be trusted because of this and that, and now that we're showing tightening in a few, we're supposed to reverse course and take those as gospel.
LOL. Poll-bashing and cherry-picking are signs of desperation.
Joe the Plumber is beginning to look more and more like a plant by the hour.
No license, says he doesn't need one, county says he does, never really had a plan in place or money to buy Newell Plumbing, and is a registered Republican who was never really going to give Obama the time of day...but wanted to show up at a rally. Me thinks I smell a rat.
He was rather testy when confronted on his inconsistencies this morning, too.
This one ain't flying with me and I can see it unraveling within the day. The guy was a plant, a set up, a a dummy.
Anyone have any first-hand reports from North Carolina? I think voting started today.
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