9.14.2008

Was Obama's 50 22-State Strategy a Mistake?

Some scattered thoughts on the ponderable above:

1. Thave been some particular resource allocation decisions made by the Obama campaign that I've been skeptical of from the get-go. The one that always stood out was Georgia, with the criticism stemming from Electoral Portfolio Theory 101. Namely: while it was possible to conceive of a world in which Georgia went blue, it probably wasn't going to turn blue before North Carolina, and it certainly wasn't going to turn blue before Virginia. Obama very probably will have won the election if he wins Virginia, and he'll certainly have won the election if he wins both Virginia and North Carolina. So the resources deployed to Georgia are arguably redundant; it was hard to think of Georgia as providing better than about Obama's 320th electoral vote, even under the best case scenario.

2. Arguably also, the Obama campaign was too eager to defend certain states, such as Maine and perhaps Washington.

3. There is also one state that the Obama campaign arguably missed from his group of 22, which is West Virginia. Our tipping point model has always liked West Virginia because it is so demographically unique. It is easier to conceive of Obama winning West Virginia while losing a state like Virginia (if, say, he gained traction by positioning himself as a populist) than to conceive of his winning North Carolina or Georgia while losing Virginia. And what if Obama had selected Hillary Clinton to be his running mate? The two states that I think would have come into play almost immediately were West Virgina and Arkansas, but Obama had no real field presence in either state.

4. If the intention was to draw resources out of the McCain campaign, Steve Schmidt certainly didn't take the bait, never really venturing into states like Indiana or Montana.

5. But clearly, the post-convention electoral map appears to have been affected heavily by the choice of Sarah Palin, which fired up the Republican base and returned traditionally red states back to the red column. If McCain had instead picked, say, Mitt Romney, who ran poorly in the South during the primaries, it is much easier to conceive of North Carolina becoming an interesting state. If he had picked an insider like Joe Lieberman or Rob Portman, it is much easier to conceive of Montana, which doesn't like Washington DC candidates, becoming fertile ground for Obama.

6. Indeed, perhaps one of the reasons that McCain picked Palin was precisely because the Republicans were having trouble in states like Montana and Indiana. So maybe Obama did not bluff McCain into opening a field office in Kalispell, MT, but he might have scared him into thinking that drawing the Republican base together with the VP was a necessity, even if Palin may eventually present problems for him in other areas.

7. One further point to consider is whether polling generally becomes more partisan as the election nears. That is, was it in some sense inevitable that North Dakota would turn more red? My guess, after peeking at a bit of 2004 data, is that there probably is some tendency for states to "partisanize" themselves as the election draws closer, but nowhere near the scale of movement that the Republicans seem to have gotten post-Palin.

8. Keep in mind that the resource allocation choices made by the Obama campaign aren't necessarily focused on the goal of getting him elected President. They may also be motivated by a desire to expand the party's reach in future election cycles, or to help Democrats in downballot races.

9. Finally, this entire discussion is premature to some extent, since we don't yet know to what if any extent Obama's ground game advantages will be worth something. Take a state like Indiana, where Obama has an enormous field presence and McCain has almost none. I doubt that there has ever been such an imbalance of resources in any one particular state in the modern era; game theory would dictate (I think) that allocations of resources between different states ought to be about equal between the two major parties. What if the disparity is worth 3 or even 5 points above and beyond what is reflected in the polls? Then Indiana could very well be a tipping point state, and Obama's decision to set up shop there would look like a stroke of genius.

Lastly, a quick note. I'll be on the road for the next couple of days and as such, posting schedules are going to be a bit erratic. We'll do the best we can and appreciate your patience.

453 comments

Geoff said...

Good points nate - we'll see if he can focus like a laser on CO and OH from now on.

live renats said...

Investing in georgia was a good idea but it needed backing up by actual campaigning personally by him (maybe as part of a general southern swing by) and secret funding of bob barr's campaign.

live renats said...

Unless he knows something we don't he ought to forget ga. and redeploy forces in ohio, co., etc as geoff says.

Baz744 said...

It's only September, Nate. The week after the Republican convention.

Sometime around October 20, when the polls have evened back up, and McCain is desperately trying to keep Georgia in his column because he knows Virginia and North Carolina are desperately out of his reach, you'll be singing a different tune about the Wisdom of Obama's resource allocation strategy.

Shap said...

I agree with Geoff and renats about CO and OH, but what about NV? It's #1 on Nate's ROI Index.

Okla-bama! said...

First time blogger on this site, and this is amazing...however, this is my comment. If something were to happen to either McCain or Obama, who would I rahter have serve as president? Biden or Palin? Is that a pretty reasonable concern?

SNED said...

Good post, I've always been leery of Georgia and North Dakota. What I don't get most is how Palin is playing so well in Florida. Theres no way she should have brought anything south of Gainsville on board, and I imagine broad swaths of the Palm Beaches, Broward, and Miami-Dade just not going for that pick at all.

Geoff said...

Shap - NV would have been next on my list, but i think less important than Colorado because Obama might pick up those EV's (NV's) somewhere else, but he has to have CO to win, IF he loses OH.

kaiserbrown said...

Nate: Are you seriously arguing given the demographics of WV and his drubbing in the primary at the hands of an electorate wherein 20% of his own party said they were voting in large part based upon race? If there's anything we've seen thus far in the general and can draw from the primaries it's that Obama has some of the toughest sledding amongst Appalachian and Southern rural whites. Putting an effort into states like WV would have been pointless, even moreso than spending seed money on places like Georgia which have far more favorable demographics, and is worth more in the electoral college. Putting resources into WV would have been political malpractice.

As to the plays for places like Indiana and Montana, I see no problem with Obama using the pre-convention period to see if those areas are flippable, and then reallocating resources if they are not. Voter contacts made in July are less valuable than those made in September and October, and it behooves Obama to probe non-traditional swing states to see if he can pull one from McCain's column. Up until the Palin pick, which energized the Christian Right like nothing short of nominating Billy Graham could, it looked like a savvy strategy that would afford Obama multiple fronts on which to force McCain to defend, and where only a couple of the states would have to fall his way for him to win the presidency. Now he's more or less down to hoping he hangs onto the Kerry states + IA/NM and making sure he can get one of Colorado Nevada or Virginia to fall into place on election day.

kimmy said...

NO ! ...

Sergeiy said...

Look, the point is that Obama's ground game actually turns people OFF. He has unbelievably high strong negatives in Ohio, polls strangely bad in Washington state. People don't like to be bugged that much that early!

I'd say the ground effort is the main reason for McCrap's closing in on Obama over the summer.

Jen said...

New Iowa poll from the Des Moines Register.

Obama 52, McCain 40 Likely voters

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_el_pr/poll2008_iowa_2;_ylt=AlTtuKHO4ewkp5NIVAljFblh24cA

How weird that everyone was asking for one last night.

Ask and ye shall receive evidently.

DarienCrow said...

You guys better drop back into a 4 state strategy.

If your lucky you can hold Illinios, California, New York, Mass., oh yeah... Delaware too.

I hear doors slamming in the faces of Obama robots everywhere!

Geoff said...

That one from Iowa looks really good for Obama - the evangelical push did not make Iowa tighter. I think that McCain's anti-ethanol stance (which, keep in mind, ethanol is driving up food prices in the third world and hence hunger there) is what is keeping him artificially low in Iowa - plus McCain dissed Iowa in both 2000 and 2008, and Iowa dissed him back. :)

Wes said...

test

MidPointMan said...

Iowa is 100% Corn Ethanol fueled.

Obama is in bed with the Corn Ethanol industry.

McCain told them to go screw.

Special Interest at work. Obama wins Iowa by starving Africa, which is a trade-off he is apparently willing to make.

Fizz Byers said...

The '50 state strategy' was a bit silly... build the firewall and game the map. Will Obama's edge on the ground in key battle ground states pull it out in the end? Will Palin's bubble pop or land softly as Chuck Todd debated in his latest column? Will I go surfing later today or just watch football?
http://www.VoteRobot.org

Geoff said...

This MN poll should give McCain fans some comfort, just like CO polls are giving Obama comfort now. But honestly, its the 100 million each spent in each state respectively that is holding the numbers artificially up for McCain in MN and Obama in CO. Obama wins MN by 2-3 points, CO is a tossup - could be recount redux

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/president/28353589.html

MidPointMan said...

His 50 state strategy is laughable...and so is Howard Dean.

a 22 state strategy is laughable.

The REAL swing states are 10 maybe 12 states.

Yet another reason why the Obama campaign has thus far been one of the worst run in recent history...

...despite the hype. It is badly run.

Hillay would be up by 10-12 points right now.

MidPointMan said...

Hillary would be up by 10-12 points right now.

cora said...

the "big" news up are Obama's 66 m. raised for Aug + the NYT article on Palin. Some evangelicals will start having doubt and lose exitement. The NYT enquiry is thorough and cannot be ascribed as campaign-issued propaganda. It's on the front page and many papers will carry it. The 66m. spell well and they should have reflections in the polls soon because the base is inspired and the groundgame is paying. Due to the way it's organized I believe Obama's fundraising is part of the same groundgame that brings voters.

Brad said...

I am just too confused to know who is corect right now.

Would Obama's ground game have held up if McCain made a conventional VP pick? Even with this crazy VP pick, can Palin really hold up for even 8 weeks without a MAJOR gaffe?

WV was never in play, GA was due to the highly repressed black vote, and the young 'uns down there.

Is going on the road now kinda like Obama taking a vacation at the primary moment in the campaign...

filistro said...

It's all been brilliant. The Obama 50-state strategy goaded McCain into making a base-pleasing pick... and Obama wins a base war every time.

But it's even better because of the pick he made, which was so spectacularly misguided. Palin is so unprepared that they can't put her in front of the media to shape a narrative, thus allowing the opposition (and the media) to define her instead.

She is gradually emerging as a lightweight, a liar, a wacko, an abuser of power. And her inadequacies, which normally wouldn't be as important when she's only the VP, are significant this year because it reflects so badly on McCain's judgement.

Everything in McCain's favor right now... the excitement, the movement in the polls, the reddening of the map... it's all based on Palin..

And Palin is a bubble. I always thought the final vote would be really close. Now I think Nate should be updating the landslide chances for Obama. The chances are far more than 50-50 that Palin will implode in the next month, leaving McCain with nothing.

Okla-bama! said...

Fellow Obamabots, no fear! McCain's record month of $47 million for August was just matched with Obama's (new record) month of $66 million!!!!!!

Jen said...

Geoff, I think ethanol is one of the keys to the Iowa numbers, also personality. My family is from Iowa and I think Iowans respond well to the low key nature of Obama.

I agree with the earlier poster regarding West Virginia. After the drubbing Obama received in the primary, I do not see him winning this state in the election. If 20% of Dems there won't vote for him due to race, and other Dems may not vote for him for some other reason, he would have trouble winning there, in my opinion.

Chun said...
This post has been removed by the author.
zozie said...

I wonder - has the McCain campaign outspent Obama in Virginia or NC?

I've gotten the impression that the expenditures across the country are part of the implicit agreement with the myriad donors to Obama's campaign. If he is getting shellacked in the ad campaign expenditures in Virginia then this was a poor judgment. If he is just spending the money he has and staying on par or higher with McCain, then it is more moot.

By the way - I noticed that his big expenditures on ads in the primaries hurt him as he looked like a fat cat compared to Hillary. At some point there isn't much upside to more ad spending.

Ad spending won't win the election - it's a factor.

pythonm said...

I'm confused by the dogma here that "ground game" or presence or grass roots or whatever you want to call it leads to state electoral grabs.

Is there any history of a traditionally Dem/Rep state moving based solely on the quality of campaigning versus the issues/candidates?

Another issue is that when our fearless leader miscalculates we are so gentle and say we are "confused" but whenever Bush/McCain miscalculates we call them idiots or connivers or liars, etc.

I'm telling you guys, the angry left doesn't win votes. I've said it on every post since I came here. Moderate your views, and learn how to sway the swayable.

Everyone here is screeching to the choir.

mikewpbfl said...

MN "Star Tribune" Poll: Tied at 45%.

Ras Rep. Daily Track...
McCain 50% Obama 47%.

Prediction: The Obama fan base will bitch and moan about Ras Reps shift in party ID... yet not mention any of the news articles that confirm the ID shift.

A slight shift in Obamas favor however is Ras Rep, "by the numbers."

mikewpbfl said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Chun said...

Strategically speaking, and I am not saying who would be the better leader because I think Obama blows by everyone on the republican side and the democratic side on that, but strategically speaking I think the game winning ticket would have been Clinton/Richardson.

Win the blue states and New Mexico, win the rust belt and make Arkansas and Florida, with its large Hispanic population, competitive.

Indy said...

As a canvasser in Indiana, the suggestion above that Obama is getting negatives from too much ground game does not fit with my experiences. Most people have reacted positively to being asked about their preferences. But maybe that is because no one ever cared what Hoosiers think about presidential politics before.

MidPointMan said...

Obama's new lobbyist ad is both terrible as an ad.

...and to top it off is a lie.

It claims that his advisors are current lobbyists.

They are not. They have formerly worked as a lobbyist.

...so has Joe Biden's son. It can be argued that Obama himself was a lobbyist during his community organizing days. He worked on behalf of political groups.

Why can't Obama make a decent ad?

I thought this election was supposed to be about issues?

Alex S. said...

I agree with lots of this post. NOW we can say that Georgia was a mis-calculation because the Barr candidacy never gained any traction and the general election has become more partisan than expected.
Maybe the Obama campaign thought that the general campaign would become a little less confrontational than the primaries against Clinton. West Virginia had been out of reach if people had mainly wanted to vote AGAINST Obama. But now they see that McCain vs. Obama is a real choice they have to make, and the Democrat looks not bad in this comparison. But it is doubtful if the Obama campaign can make a last minute effort there (Biden and Bill Clinton?).

The case of Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia is interesting because I believe that there was a certain ranking of priority. Georgia was only of tertiary importance, based on tactics (Barr), strategy (low McCain enthusiasm), and organisation (record turnout). Now that 2 of these preconditions are not true anymore they have moved the Georgia staff into a state of secondary importance: North Carolina. My guess is that, as the campaign goes on, a further concentration will take place IF the race is not going too well. North Carolina is almost in reach, but still leaning red. And the research triangle is a 2nd demographic that adds to Obama´s chances, in addition to African Americans.
But I would guess that the campaign will check their numbers in a month and decide if North Carolina is worth it and if not, they will send their NC staff into a primary battleground state: Virginia.

The same development is happening in Texas at the moment. It was only worth a shot if we had seen record support of latinos and the youth, and if the Texas senate race had been more competetive. But now it isn´t happening and they send their staff into a secondary state: New Mexico, secondary because it was already leaning Obama. In a month, the campaign will check if New Mexico is still threatening to stay red and if not, they will send the New Mexico staff into a primary battleground, Colorado.

DarienCrow said...

Oklabama...

If you really live in Oklahoma I suggest that you keep your love for Obama deep in the closet.

They have guns there.

live renats said...

Anyone who can say definitively which way things will go at this stage is wacko.

DarĂ­o said...

Rasmussen is McCain 50-47.

Geoff said...

mikew - whats the shift in obama's favor?

live renats said...

dariencrow is wacko.

Wes said...

Dems in GA usually top out in the mid-40s in statewide races. Estimate today on 538 has Obama at 43.3%.
I assume Bob Barr is on the ballot in his home state. Without a monumental effort by the Obama campaign, Barr's presence to siphon votes from McCain is the only reason I'd consider GA in play for Obama. If Barr can make Obama's 45% the plurality, Obama will win Georgia the way Clinton did in 1992.
There is a mixture of national security Republicans, Main St. Republicans, and social conservatives in the state. Palin will appeal to the social conservatives, but her record raising taxes would make her suspect to the economic conservatives.
I haven't followed what Barr is doing in GA, but there is a libertarian constituency in GA that he would appeal to. Libertarians get 3-4% in statewide races without candidates as well-known as Barr. I'd like to hear what people closer to the ground in GA can add. Is Georgia legitimately in play for Obama?

Brad said...

pythonm-

Bush ground game moved swing states, but the Obama plan included lots of new voters, not just energizing the base. If Palin fails, there is a good chance the Obama ground game will look like genius and make filistro into a savant.

Obama is still in the lead, and I think McCain is at a high point he won't be able to maintain.

The Numantine said...

GA and the "50 State Strategy" was always about your #8--down ballot. Obama has always been saying that it is about more than just the Presidency.

Yeah--I wondered about the WV decision. Hey, it borders OH, PA & VA--at least visit and pick up a few votes in these border areas.

M. said...

Yes, Montana or West Virginia or North Dakota or Georgia might not turn blue in 2008. If the work begun by Dean and continued and reinforced by Obama will be kept up it might do so in 2016 or 2024 or 2040...

live renats said...

The sooner Bill Clinton is out stumping through appalachia and the south, the better. He'll get better media coverage for Obama than Biden, I expect.

DarĂ­o said...

I think Obama will win MN at the end.
In 2004, Bush leads in some polls before the election and Kerry won the state.
Obama might focus in CO, NM and Nevada and he should campaign in PA and MI, maybe OH.
For McCain, i think he might have the same of Obama, focus in CO and NM.

EzE said...

Wow nate, I think we all just need to calm down. Was it a mistake for Obama to campaign in GA? Remember Dean's 50-state strategy back in 2006, we are tired of being the "minority" party. For the past 30 years we have had the smaller base. Obama isn't campaigning in Georgia because he thinks he can win it, but he does have an over abundence of resorces. Only 3 Democrats in history have won more than 50% of the vote. The second Obama slips in the polls, everyone starts second guessing his strategy. He painted JonnyMac into a corner, which led to the Palin pick. Now the Conversation is no longer "Can I vote for Barack Obama?", it is now "Who is Sarah Palin?" We should all wait this one out. Remember why CO was turning blue? Because the Independents were tired of the Evangelical Right running there state. People are going to wake up, and in a months time Democrats are going to be very very happy. Palin changed the question, she didn't change the dynamics of this election, Obama did by pushing JonnyMac into choosing Palin.

seer said...

This is my first time posting, but i visit this site very often. When Obama was leading in the EV estimate no one was questioning his strategy then. Now that he is behind his strategy is being questioned? Hmmmmm!

bipartisan said...

Another over reach by the suddenly misguided Obama campaign. $66M is great, but they opted out of public financing because of the $100M months they were going to have. He can still win, but clearly it is slipping away absent a huge debate performance on 9/26. If he loses that debate, swing voters will tune him out and it's over.

MidPointMan said...

If McCain breaks 49 it is over.

McCain will get 70% of the undecideds.

If Obama does not break 48 it is over.

Okla-bama! said...

Darien Crow! I know...But beleive it or not, there are more registered democrats than republicans, (many of whom wont vote for Obama b/c of his race unfortunately), plus a VERY popular two-term democratic governor in Brad Henry. I'm alright, but thanks for the concern!!!

widmerpool said...

the Obama campaign needs to DO something before anything is going to change in the polls.

my only hope is that McCain/Palin shot their wad too early.

but i don't understand why some are some confident that Obama will automatically close the gap in a few weeks.

Sam said...

There are many other items to consider in resource allocation, some of which you've looked at before on this site. (1)There is a declining return on investment as you throw more money at a state. (2) Ground games in additional states are relatively cheap compared to media buys. (3) Each investment can have two impacts, it can build the vote and it can build the rest of the campaign, including the fundraising side. It is much easier to raise money where people see an active campaign, especially money from grassroots donors. (4) There's an overlap feature. Georgia's media market is huge, overlapping in the south with Florida and in the north with North Carolina and even western Virginia. Yes, it also includes states that aren't targetted, like Alabama, South Carolina and Tennessee.

All of these suggest that a broader campaign is more productive, even if the countervailing argument is that this whole race can come down to a handful of votes in Ohio, Florida, Virginia or Colorado.

John K. said...

Democrat shills always tell us to "wait".

Well, we've waited, and Obama is blowing the election. He's shooting your only chance of winning the white house to hell.

Good job for not picking Hillary, libs. McCain/Palin thanks you ;).

The Bubba vote will lead to a McCain landslide, he will sweep the rustbelt handily (PA, OH, MI).

Namų Darkytoja said...

Democrats have a puzzle with a code name "Palin Problem". They have to solve it, and to do it effectively, because the prize is the White House.
Sarah is everywhere these days. No matter, if there are negative responses, rumors and resentments; or praises, support and encouragements. She filled media, and not only in America. Palinmania is spreading all over the world - everybody has their opinion on the new political celebrity of US.
The Palin avalanche is winning against Obama inundation. How should Democrats defeat her? Would it be better just keep their line of campaign and ignore populist idol of Republicans? Or should they put out their claws, oppose her and show her the real politics? http://www.votetheday.com/polls/to-defeat-palin-260/ - give advice to Democrats, if you think there still is an effective advice for them...

live renats said...

The des moines poll is better news for obama. Strange how many supporters though dislike the choice of Biden in Iowa- didn't they do any poll-testing of prospective vp's?

MidPointMan said...

Chuck Todd on MTP:

"McCain will get 70% of the undecideds, and the Obama campaign knows it."

"A number to watch is whether Obama breaks 48% in these swing states. If he does not, he will likely lose."

Chuck Todd is in the tank for Obama, too.

bipartisan said...

That's an over reach John K. Ohio will be won handily by McCain, but I suspect Obama will win at least one of PA and Mich. If he loses one it will be <4%

John K. said...

No no bipartisan PA and MI Won't bring themselves to vote for a black guy with an exotic background, and they LOVE PAlin!

Wes said...

I wonder if anyone knows in which states/markets Obama is running the ad about McCain not being able to use a computer. That seems to be a new line of criticism, a little different than merely saying McCain is out of touch. It is almost inconceivable to me that he can't send e-mail. I can understand the ad strategy, but I wonder if it will be effective.

live renats said...

2 months to go and you're predicting who's winning Ohio? It'll be too close to call even on election night.

John K. said...

"2 months to go and you're predicting who's winning Ohio? It'll be too close to call even on election night."

It will be too close to call on election night, but McCain will win handily and everyone will be shocked.

Because of the "bubba" vote.

Alex S. said...

To emphasize that the EVIL east coast liberal media is in the tank for Obama:

Currently 8 (!) of the 10 most popular NYT articles on their web page are anti McCain/Palin.

And 3 of the 4 most viewed articles of the Washington Post are anti McCain/Palin.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

We don't really know how the ground game will be used. It is like the chess piece on the board staying toward the middle, tying down another piece of McCain's, and has the potential to win the checkmate. But the game has to play itself out.

We do know that Senator McCain's honor will be put into question in the next two weeks. It's a subtle difference than calling him a liar. But it has vast consequences. As a Navy man through and through, McCain's response to this is critical.

Chuck Todd says the magic number for Senator Obama is 48. Obama has to be at that number in the trackers as we get closer to Election Day. Now that we know the middle class independents are having doubts about voting for a black man, there's two ways around this: fight to switch just enough of these voters back or expand the pie.

kaiserbrown said...

A note on the misnomer "50 state strategy." Opening 2 offices with 12 paid staff in a state like Alaska might cost ~250,000 over the course of 4 months. Obama and McCain spent a combined 11,000,000 on ads during the Olympics. Small sized ground games and offices in states that might be marginally competitive are not expensive propositions, especially not when Obama can easily pull those 12 paid staff and any technology assets he has out of Alaska within 2 days and redeploy them to a battleground state at the time the state proves uncompetitive. Further, the vast majority of totally uncompetitive states (Vermont, Oklahoma) will see nominal staffing by volunteer groups who may get a few boxes of "chum"- attacking Obama for running a "50 state strategy" smacks of either lax analysis or ignorance.

Elfouegh said...

The 50 state strategy would be more efficient if the top of the party was more engaged in the campaigning.
Harry Reid is Senate Majority Leader from Nevada, right ?
And isn't Bill Clinton rather appreciated in the South ?
All I've seen Hillary do is one event in Florida, when she could be influential there.
That's just to name the top dogs. I may be wrong and they are doing their jobs outside of the spotlight, but doesn't seem that way.

In any case, I think the 50 state strategy was never about winning the election, it was carrying on Dean's work to bring the dems into the majority (just as long as they don't think it'll be permanent...).

I do hope the Palin bubble deflates sometime in the next month. Obama doesn't need it go any faster, but I do hope it happens. In any case, Obama, rightly or wrongly, put together an entire strategy for this campaign, and it's playing out. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt a little bit longer.

And if he succeeds, it'll be all the more reason for him to be President.

Brad said...

Alex S. -

That does not indicate bias, it simply means they know less about Palin.

Let's not panic, the thing is essentially a draw and will come down to the debates - but it always came down to the debates ANYWAY!

filistro said...

McCain has lost Tom Friedman, too.

(from today's NYT)

[McCain's campaign is] now built on turning everything possible into a cultural wedge issue -- including even energy policy, no matter how stupid it makes the voters and no matter how much it might weaken America.

I respected McCain's willingness to support the troop surge in Iraq, even if it was going to cost him the Republican nomination. Now the same guy, who would not sell his soul to win his party's nomination, is ready to sell every piece of his soul to win the presidency.

In order to disguise the fact that the core of his campaign is to continue the same Bush policies that have led 80 percent of the country to conclude we're on the wrong track, McCain has decided to play the culture-war card. Obama may be a bit professorial, but at least he is trying to unite the country to face the real issues rather than divide us over cultural differences. [...]

I don't know how much steel is in Obama's belly, but I do know that the issues he is focusing on in this campaign -- improving education and health care, dealing with the deficit and forging a real energy policy based on building a whole new energy infrastructure -- are the only way we can put steel back into America's spine. McCain, alas, has abandoned those issues for the culture-war strategy. [...]

There is no strong leader without a strong country. And posing as one, to use the current vernacular, is nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig.



As I said yesterday... I don't think the righties in here have a full awareness of how disastrous... how LETHAL... it is when respected members of the establishment media start saying things like this about your candidate.

And say what you will about Obama's overall strategy, but I maintain that the fact McCain is still doing this despite the obvious risk shows me that his own internals are just as dismal as they were before he was forced into the Palin choice.

prairiecomm said...

I agree w/ filistro

to paraphrase the remarks of one of the more reputable newsmen recently - ~"the scales are falling from the eyes of the established media newsmen - the 45 to 65 year olds who had highly respected John McCain in the past - but who are seeing his integrity head south.

yes, the palin bubble ...

John K. said...

OH NOES!

Tom Friedman. THE Tom Friedman?

How many swing voters in the heartland do you think really read the NYT?

John K. said...

I hope the media attacks. A lot. The anti-Palin media bias will blow the election for Obama.

Catherine said...

To answer the Barr question... I grew up in Barr's former congressional district. My honest belief is that the Barr problem in Georgia is that the people who were big Barr supporters back in the day are NOT the libertarian crowd. And the libertarian crowd did NOT like Barr. I understand he's trying to spin some sort of a revisionist tale about his record now, but what I primarily remember Barr for was a) being all over the impeachment of President Clinton, b) being all over the gay bashing and DOMA stuff, and c) being a virulent race baiter despite looking rather mixed-race himself. None of these memories are things that endear him to my libertarian sensibilities

filistro said...

John K, does Mummy know you're on the computer?

Look, you've got peanut butter and jelly all over the keyboard again.

presidentraygun said...

Jesus, Nate, you're the last person I would have thought would have resorted to hysterical negativity. This is still the bounce. You can start being hysterical if Obama duffs a debate.

Brad said...

I can "feel" a Palin bubble. You know, sometimes you just have the feeling in your spine that things are moving. The overseas speeches bump Obama got felt like a bubble too.

sleeguy123 said...

"If your lucky you can hold Illinios, California, New York, Mass., oh yeah... Delaware too. I hear doors slamming in the faces of Obama robots everywhere!"

dariencrow, are you dumb? please go crawl back into your hole.

John K. said...

Why don't you answer my question, Filistro?

How many heartland swing voters read the New York Times?

Answer Guy said...

#8 is an important point. Local Democrats had long gotten used to the Presidential campaigns writing off most of the red states. This led to a lack of enthusiasm for Democrats in those states generally and the GOP could take them for granted and exploit their leverage there into down-ballot wins. The whole idea behind the 50-state strategy was to reverse this trend and contest races everywhere.

As a loyal Dem, I'm concerned but I'm not panicking yet. I don't think the GOP wins a base vs. base election in 2008, and that is what the Palin phenonemon and the general tenor of the campaign are transforming this election into.

filistro said...

John K, I will start responding to you when your questions start to show even a vestige of intelligence.

John K. said...

Shorter Filistro:

"I'm an isolated blue state elite who is completely out of touch and think steel workers in Ohio read Tom Friedman".

markymark said...

I wonder if there is anyway of really telling if a 50/22 state strategy has been effective/a stupid mistake until election day. What effect has Obama's ground game had? Well if it has had any effect, its probably mostly on what we can consider 'unlikely voters'. Do polling companies take into account the ground game at all? I suppose there is some sort of notive taken with party id taken into account. But what happens if the polling companies have hit at more likely groups of voters, who have consistently voted, and then on November 4, lots of those who in the past maybe haven't voted show up to vote? Never mind the Bradleu Effect, which may or may not come into play, what happens if Obama can boost his numbers by 3-4% by getting out new voters?

Brad said...

john k.-

I know the heartlend, live in IA, MO, and IL until last month. Lots of people do read the NYT, they are not a bunch of knee jerk idiots.

Who doesn't read the NYT? The evangelicals because they cannot handle anything shaking their rather insane god-based world view as if they question it much, it becomes very obvious that it is non-sensical.

Also, the WaPo and the NYT are read by ALL the newspaper folks out there.

Alex S. said...

@ john k.

I agree with you that the negative press coverage will not have a significant impact in certain heartland states. I think Indiana and Ohio will be rather unimpressed. It will hurt McCain in highly educated states: Minnesota and Colorado, and in a state with lots of New York "exiles" - Florida.

Andrew said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Daniel said...

Just got up (CA), gonna watch the football pre-game stuff to see who to start in my fantasy league.

Ok, let's see, RAS remains McCain +3, MN is tied and Obama is like +12 in IA. And the McCain trolls are out in full force like it's Christmas.

That RAS +3 is nice for McCain because it's consistent, but can he hold it? And really, who cares because IA is Obama's, he's holding Kerry's states (the MN poll shows a tie during McCain's best possible week), Obama is up in CO and most will agree that NM will a difficult climb for McCain. So, even during a great McCain week and a not so great polling week for Obama -- Obama still has the Electoral College lead or if you believe Nate's model, Obama is one good polling week away from taking back the electoral college.

It's Sept 14 -- do any of you remember the polls (or even care) from Aug 14? Of course not -- and by Oct 14 no one will be thinking of today's polls.

The fact remains that McCain/Palin are starting to get taken to task all over the internet and the MSM, Obama is firing back and just had a $66M fundraising month, the BLUE states are still blue, IA and CO are bucking McCain's surge and remain with Obama -- and let's not forget it wasn't too long ago that CNN had Obama up like +13 in NM.

One other thing -- a very good interview by Univision of McCain is making it's way around -- trust me when I say the hispanics of NV, CO and NM will be happy to read it and then vote Obama.

McCain trolls can talk all they want -- there's still 4 debates to go and McCain has nothing but stupid sound bytes that substitute for policy.

js said...

I'm surprised no none here is talking about SNL from last night. It seems to me that the media frame on Palin is starting to crystallize between that and the swarm of articles on her corruption and McCain's divorce from his own integrity. There may very well be a backlash building, and if it is, the result won't be pretty for team McCain.

Brad said...

markymark-

Polling orgs continue the same thought base no matter the election - and that is the only people who will vote this time are the people who voted last time. At least in their likely voter models.

John K. said...

Big city coastal newspapers are hemorrhaging readership numbers alex. Get real.

The only newspaper that actually has increased readership is USA Today.

MidPointMan said...

filistro -

Friedman is so transparent in his bias. He is anti-drilling and pro-Obama.

McCain has not changed, the polls changed. The media expected McCain to play nice and lose like a gentleman.

Well, they should have known better. McCain is not selling his soul, he is winning. It makes them angry.

Tom Friedman is a neophyte on energy issues, but fancies himself an expert. He is part of the hype machine that has over-hyped offshoring as a way to scare people.

His pet theories have been discredited in recent years and he is angry about it.

...and nobody who is a swing voter relies on his opinion, I can tell you that.

The snobbery in his commentary is manifest: "makes the voters look stupid"

Somebody is an East Coast arrogant ass...

booond said...

Friedman's a tool. He won't convince anyone. The person that will help Obama is Joe Klein who is also a tool but sounds like an everyman and has a big mouth.

Anyone see George Will lie about the Bush doctrine today. If there is a hell there is a special place for people like Will.

Andrew said...

Not to oversimplify things but:

If Obama wins Colorado, he wins the election

If Obama loses Colorado, he loses the election

It would make sense that Nevada is the number one tipping point state as it is polling +2/+3 in McCain's favor and it's state poll results are the most like the National numbers. Colorado is around +1 Obama, so it's about +2 in favor of Obama in comparison to the rest of the country. In theory, if Obama wins Nevada, that would mean the polls came back to +1/+2 Obama nationally, which would leave him around +1/+2 in Nevada, thus +3/+4 in Colorado. If we use the tipping point approach as of today with a +1 Obama win, he would win the Kerry States + Iowa + New Mexico + Nevada + Colorado. Ohio is about 4 more points toward McCain then the national polls, so he wouldn't win Ohio nor Virginia (3 pts McCain) in a +1/+2 Obama victory.

However, I have two problems. (1) The Simulations are showing more frequently that Obama is winning the Electoral College without winning the Popular Vote. Meaning that Obama would win states trending more towards Obama then the national numbers would indicate. Thus, he would win Colorado and New Mexico and Iowa, but dead-even states in comparison to the national trend would be lost, such as Nevada. (2) We are assuming that Nevada goes to + 1 Obama with the national trend in a few weeks, yet Nevada has continuously been +3 for McCain. So while the model sees the trend in Nevada and the trend nationally as one and the same, I bet Nevada's polling doesn't change and it moves down to number 4 on the Tipping Point List. That's still pretty good. I think this intuitively makes sense. If the trend moves back to +1 Obama and Colorado adds another point and moves to around +2 for Obama, it will become the Number One Tipping Point State again.

live renats said...

Colorado doesn't have enough electoral votes for it to be 'decisive'. You're confusing it with ohio.

MidPointMan said...

Obama raised $66M in mostly corporate cash last month...

Hope and Change...

MATT J. H. said...

Wisconsin is back in play. We have not yet seen polling but both camps claim that its dead even there now. The biggest change in this election is that Obama has gone from a position of strength, playing offense, to playing defense.

Virginia, IN, MT, MO, FL and even OH look out of play now. Wisconsin MN,WI,PA and MI are now all in play, which is bad news for Obama.

The only good new for barack is the West is wide open and Chuck Todd believes with the huge democratic registration advantage that Obama may sweep the west.

So, McCain is on offense in the Mid west, and Obama is on offense in the west. The new swing states are

NV,NM,CO,MI,PA,WI, and MN.

filistro said...

Alex, it's not just an issue of who reads "negative press."

These memes work like dropping a spoonful of intense dye into a basin of water. The dye spreads, suffuses and soon disappears... but the color of the water has changed forever.

The way it works in politics is awesome and fearful to watch.

If we have two more weeks of this, the national impression of McCin will have changed from war hero and maverick to liar and gossip-monger.

And it will have happened not only among readers of th NYT, but somehow, (mysteriously) also among people who never read a newspaper.

MidPointMan said...

Minnesota being tied portends disaster for Obama...

Brad said...

midpoint-

where do you get it was "mostly corporate cash" - I guess those 500,000 new donors were all Fortune 500 companies?

John K. said...

Yup, Obama is sinking, sinking, sinking...

*glug glug glug*

Chris Of Rights said...

I've always felt that in the end the Governor's race in Indiana would be the tipping point for McCain here. Governor Daniels (R) is very popular with Republicans, and early indications were that it would be a fairly tight race. My reaction to that was that it would help energize the Republican base here to defeat Jill Long Thompson (D), and that McCain would benefit.

However, it now appears that the wheels have fallen off JLT's campaign. It now appears likely that she will get less than 40% of the vote, and sub 30% is not completely out of the question.

This may actually depress Republican turnout and may be, paradoxically, exactly what Obama needs to win the state.

Brad said...

MN being tied portends nothing.

Midpoint, make a real post and quit spinning and lying like your candidate.

"Somewhere in America, a conservative is lying"

harold said...

Darien Crow -

"If you really live in Oklahoma I suggest that you keep your love for Obama deep in the closet.

They have guns there."

I read this comment with interest. And it filled me with a deep, cold rage.

So you threaten my fellow American with violence for his democratic choice and free expression do you, you filthy, fascist traitor against freedom?

In doing so, you spit in the face of every man, woman and child who ever sacrificed to keep this great nation free.

You dirty, filthy, ungrateful coward.

Others - I apologize for the uncivil tone of this missive, but I think that cheap threat needed to be countered.

Answer Guy said...

While most swing voters in the Midwest don't read the NYT/WaPo regularly, these articles are the sorts of things that filter their way onto televised news outlets.

While GOP base voters are often sympathetic to the idea that the media are all conspiring against them, are swing voters necessarily going to be impressed by that argument? (It's especially laughable when applied to longtime media darling John McCain.)

AxmxZ said...

People seem to think that McCain's 3-day run of +3 in Ras means something. It does, but not what you hope it means. It means he polled well on September 11th. That's all. That number will drop off the tracking tomorrow, and the race will be back to tied. His lead in Gallup, meanwhile, has already diminished to statistical dead heat. His 2.4 RCP average is being propped up by the ridiculous +10 poll, which is bound to drop off the average in a couple of days.

And this is smack in the middle of the predicted RNC bounce, which, if you remember, Nate had modeled to peak between 9/11-9/15 and gradually diminish only by the time of the first debate.

GregM said...

Daniel said: That RAS +3 is nice for McCain because it's consistent, but can he hold it?

That's what I thought at first, too, but some calculations with the new numbers seem to lend evidence suggesting that McCain's good polling day on Thurs. 9/11 (as described in the Friday Ras. Report) was an anomaly . My guess is that tomorrow will be McCain +2 (or maybe even +1) once Thursday drops out.

Brad said...

axmxz-

Add the Palin backlash, and Obama is way ahead.

On to the debates!

Foregone Conclusion said...

"To emphasize that the EVIL east coast liberal media is in the tank for Obama:

Currently 8 (!) of the 10 most popular NYT articles on their web page are anti McCain/Palin.

And 3 of the 4 most viewed articles of the Washington Post are anti McCain/Palin."

Perhaps because those who use the internet - and particularly those who use the internet to obtain their news - tend to be of a liberal bent? Says nothing about the NYT.

As for what Filistro and John K. said about the Friedman piece... I wish people would stop thinking that 'heartland voters' are completely dense and can be appeased by a ridiculous piece of fluff such as Palin.

Alex S. said...

Great metaphor filistro. Yes, these memes will spread via mouth-to-mouth campaigning and popular culture (like SNL). It takes time, but there are still 8 weeks left, and that´s more than enough.

pythonm said...

Wes,

Not sure if others have commented but you wrote "I wonder if anyone knows in which states/markets Obama is running the ad about McCain not being able to use a computer. That seems to be a new line of criticism, a little different than merely saying McCain is out of touch. It is almost inconceivable to me that he can't send e-mail. I can understand the ad strategy, but I wonder if it will be effective."

McCain is too handicapped to use a keyboard according too http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=

If this ad gets sent played too much it will be the death of Obama's campaign, I am serious. Obama has the intelligent, caring image; the ad is neither. It will easily be portrayed as hateful, divisive, and Palin already has the special-needs child thing.

MATT J. H. said...

Rassmussen decided to change the party affiliation numbers mid month guys. The GOP convention changed the party ID a lot and they didn't want to wait until October to start implementing the new change. They claimed the 3 point McCain bump in one day was polling, but come on. I have no problem with this. If McCain is really up 3 points, but party ID was keeping it BO +1, implement the change. it should be about accuracy and not silly rules about when to make PID changes.

harold said...

Darien Crow -

You cheap piece of feces.

How dare you imply that the people of the great state of Oklahoma would act out in amoral violence, in order to fulfill the sadistic fantasies of a pathetic, America-hating wretch like you?

The people of Oklahoma have already experienced the rotten fruit of the twisted, evil, violent minds of the extreme right, in the form of the Oklahoma City bombing - the second worst terrorist act in US history (and by far the worst in terms of deaths of young children).

How dare you open your smirking face and flippantly imply that they would welcome a repeat of such behavior?

justcanada said...

The poll results (how representative is this?) show a McCain tilt now, ONLY due to Palin I think. Almost every single piece of information about Palin is so dangerously negative, except the facts that she is a reasonably good speaker (though with no content, mostly parotting) and a female candidate. The sad, really sad fact seems to be that a vast section of Americans is so insulated against good information (wants to have Bush III regime) and so receptive to such shallowness even with such high stakes. Just recently Palin herself asked what is it that a VP does and yet in her ABC interview she claims she is wired to be a VP. Why didn't Charlie Gibson confront her about her earlier cluelessness??! Palin's actions even in such small town affairs are so unfair and scary! Almost everything mentioned by Palin is truly troubling (outright lies and distortions). Is it at all possible that so many Americans can be this naive?
With such a low approval rating of a Republican President, with so many mess ups from Katrina to unprecedented downfall of financial institutions (Bear Sterns, Freddie, Fannie, Lehman), manufacturing (Auto, GM, Ford,..), death of more than 4000 soldiers and two terrible wars and not catching Bin Laden,..., such strained international relations.. basically to mismanage a nation in every possible way...how on earth any can anyone support McCain-Palin? If a Democrant can not win this election, it would be unbelievable. As they say you deserve the kind of leaders you elect. I can't think why Obama is not +10 or +15 !!

Brad said...

I like the McCai nspin, especially considering they have never brought up this typing thing in this whole round of campaigning.

Tyrone said...

1) How much longer are you Obama supporters going to discredit all of pro-McCain polls because of his convention bounce? It's been 10+ days since the convention... this excuse doesn't hold much anymore.

2) Why do the stupid Obama supporters on this blog continue to state that Obama has a chance in Georgia? The last two Georgia polls have been McCain +13 and +18... should McCain supporters begin to state that McCain can win California or New Jersey? McCain is polling better in California/New Jersey than Obama is in Georgia.

Brad said...

matt j. h.-

It usre look slike Ras is cookingthe numbers. He cahnged party affiliation during Obama's convention bounce, and now mysteriously is changing to favor McCain even more during McCain's bounce. Pretty slimy, he does alot of polling for Fox. Rupert must have called him.

NJ_Moderate said...

EVERYONE, getting attacked by the New York Times will only increase McCain's margins. It is a mark of honor for a Republican and since 75-80% of independents believe that the NY Times is biased, it will be completely tuned out.

Remember, McCain's campaign hit the skids when he got favorable treatment from them.

JamesW said...

Is it possible that Obama has longer coattails than coat? In other words. his base-building strategy may have paid off more for Congressional candidates than for himself, essentially because of a racial bias against him personally. I still think he'll win.

Brad said...

tyrone-

Go read Nates post of yesterday, and his posts on the convention bounce from BEFORE the convention. In both he says McCain's bounce is plus two to three right now.

He said it before the convention, but being a repub you can never lets facts get in the way of a good story.

"Somewhere in America, a conservative is lying"

Andrew said...

Nate,

I was wondering if you could create an Electoral Elasticity Index. For example, if the polls in the next few weeks go from +3 McCain to +1 Obama, that should theoretically mean that Nevada will move to +1 Obama, Colorado +3 Obama, and Ohio +1 McCain. While all states will move with the national trend, I feel that some states are more stubborn. Would Nevada have a lower elasticity in relation to the national polls because of its stubborness to move. Would Colorado have a higher elasticity? I think that would be a worthwhile venture.

Juris said...

"Fifty state strategy" was never more than a figure of speech. I always took it as a declaration that Obama was going to challenge prior assumptions about where he could compete. And that's what he's done.

Time will tell whether he's concentrated resources -- his time, his field offices, and his advertising -- in the critical areas.

In any case, a campaign is a process. A learning process. I wouldn't second-guess his state-based strategy. I would be more concerned, if I were an Obama supporter, with his message, which plays both within states and in the country as a whole.

BTW/ Nate there's a typo in the very first word of your article.

NJ_Moderate said...

brad, I think McCain's margin is even larger then Ras is showing. PA is at most a 2-pt Obama lead, MI is a 1-2 pt lead, OH is a 4 pt lead, MN was tied, WA is a 2pt lead, etc. To see poll results like thes, McCain would be leading by 3-5 points minimum in the national vote.

AxmxZ said...

"1) How much longer are you Obama supporters going to discredit all of pro-McCain polls because of his convention bounce? It's been 10+ days since the convention... this excuse doesn't hold much anymore."

Uhm... as long as Nate's mathematical model designates the poll advantage to be influenced by the convention bounce? You DO remember whose site you're on, right?

Here, refresh your memory.

Brad said...

Andrew-

I think that would be great, and it should work because we have enough data now.

Question -

Would the elasticity correction be the same when the national polls are moving blue and red? I can see a state being more eleastic in one direction than another based on demographics.

That said, maybe all this is accounted for in the demographic portions of the model.

Alan said...

Progression of Obama's campaign:

50-state offensive strategy to

22-state offensive strategy to

3-state offensive strategy to

(with latest WI, MN, PA, MI, WA, NJ, NM polls/rumors)

a 10 state defensive strategy.

Do I have this right?

Tyrone said...

By all means Obama supporters and media, continue to attack Sarah Palin... it only helps John McCain. Sarah Palin is like a sponge and is absorbing all these attacks, letting John McCain do what he wants worry free. The more the media attacks Sarah Palin, the more there are diminishing returns, eventually people will get fed up with it because its no longer news. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

The longer this election is about Obama vs. Palin, the better news for John McCain.

MrInsight22 said...

According to NBC's Chuck Todd, strategists believe that 70% of the "undecideds" in the final polls will break for McCain due to the Bradley effect -- that is, they were not undecided at all that close to the election but did not want to seem polically incorrect to the pollster by saying they were opposed to Obama.

MATT J. H. said...

Palin changed the equation with women. The Obama camp has admitted as much and are going on a full court press for Women votes.

Women had their hearts set on Hillary becoming President. When this hope was crushed, the women were supporting Obama, but barley so. When Palin hit the scene they jumped over and changed the race dynamic.

I remember two weeks before the conventions and VP picks, Howard Fineman reporting that the Obama camp believed their support with women was fine and it was men who they needed help with. I thought this ridiculous as clearly Women were the danger group, but they did not. This fundamental misconception, that women were in their corner may go down as Obama's undoing. If Hillary, or Sebelius, or any woman were on his ticket, he would be winning right now.

Chuck Todd reported that Fararro brought a huge bump in 1984 as well, but it faded. The republicans are trying to not let it fade by keeping it front and center. If it fades, Obama will win the election. if it does not fade, he's in for a dog fight.

Brad said...

nj_mod-

Why? It is easy to throw out plaititudes (look at Palin) but is harder to back them up.

Why do think that? Explain...

Michael said...

Minnesota Star Tribune Obama 45, McCain 45 Tie

The 'money' factoid from the poll and quoted from the Minneapolis Star Tribune this morning is:

"Despite the widespread belief that Obama is overwhelemingly popular among young voters, he and McCain are essentially tied with voters younger than 35" (Actual numbers for 18-34 are: McCain 46 and Obama 45.

Obviously, with Minnesota tied, Obama is in very serious trouble nationwide.

Over half the population of Minnesota lives outside the seven county metro area and they moved, en masse, to McCain-Palin in this poll. This part of rural/outdoors Minnesota are wild about the pioneer huntress as VP. This is not a bubble and its obvious from the Gibson interview she won't be making any 'gaffe's', that's Joe Biden's job.

Brad said...

I agree that undecideds will break for McCain. Obama needs new voters to make up for it, and he has them.

Tyrone-

The eleaction is not about Palin, and the press will tell Palin's story - that is not attacking but the right wing liars have somehow convinced the dittoheads that any negative story, even if factual, is an attack.

Independents do not think this, thank God.

John K. said...

The election is over, the pool of undecided voters is too small to make a difference, Ras stopped reporting on them. =)

Brad said...

"Chuck Todd reported that Fararro brought a huge bump in 1984 as well, but it faded. The republicans are trying to not let it fade by keeping it front and center. If it fades, Obama will win the election. if it does not fade, he's in for a dog fight."

Yup, Ferraro was viewed as apoor pick in the end. Palinwill be a bad pick too.

Look at Ferraro this cycle and her insane race comments...that is Palin is a few years. Palin will earn the Huckabee vote...no more though.

Andrew said...

Brad,

I agree with you. I would say that a state like Virginia would be less elastic upon trending Blue toward Obama and more elastic upon trending Red toward McCain. The opposite could be said of Oregon.

pythonm said...

Brad,

"I like the McCai nspin, especially considering they have never brought up this typing thing in this whole round of campaigning."

The Boston Globe article quoted in the link I provided was written in 2000. I don't suppose his typing has improved since then.

Are we trying to win, or just prove we are right?

NJ_Moderate said...

brad, Obama has a paper-thin record and all he has been doing is (largely) throwing out platitudes. Having the press being so biased in favor of Obama is innocuating the McCain campaign. I have a relative who is out in Chicago and it is common knowledge out there that Obama is a dirty politician, probably far worse than McCain but there has only been sweetness and light in report for him.

Therefore, as long as the news is not reported on Fox, independents and Republicans will discount any story based on media bias. Had they been more even-handed earlier and did not try to smear Palin with falsehoods, these stories would have some impact. However, with their credibility in tatters, no one is going to pay them any mind.

Brad said...

john k.-

I think you are Scott Rasmussen, you posts are nonsensical, just like his biased party changes and headlines on his site.

BO will win, no problems.

MATT J. H. said...

John K. said...

The election is over, the pool of undecided voters is too small to make a difference, Ras stopped reporting on them. =)


It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

MJH

Brad said...

pythonm-

Yes, it was from 2000, that was my point.

Foregone Conclusion said...

"The election is over."

And I'm J. Edgar Hoover.

Seriously, we've still got six weeks to go, during which time we will have three presidential debates, a VP debate which will be more interesting than the usual, and the real start of the Obama groundgame and the ad wars (which McCain seems to put more trust in).

I'm not saying that there's an inevitable progression towards glorious Obama victory. What I am saying is that public opinion is still highly volatile and undpredictable.

Stephen said...

Interesting to note:

Today the model here projects McCain 50.7% - Obama 48.3%. This is exactly the result of the Bush vs. Kerry election.

AxmxZ said...

Man, Maureen Dowd is being just vicious to Palin.

Brad said...

nj-mod-

You either lying or an idiot. I went to U of Chicago and know exactly what is happening there. You are worng, or just making shit up (I think the latter).

NJ_Moderate said...

I concur with John K, If Palin can get through her debate and not "Stockdale" and McCain doesn't show senility in the debates, he will win. In my area, it has gone from 80-20 Obama to 60-40 and perhaps less. Some people have removed Obama signs and replaced them with McCain/Palin signs so the evidence is very real that there has been a fundamental shift in the campaign.

NJ_Moderate said...

You went to a college, you have not lived there for 50 years. The housing initiaitve that Obama run is a public embarrassment and an eyesore.

John K. said...

Nope. Just like the Civil War was essentially over at Gettysburg, and World War II was over at Stalingrad, this election ended with the pick of Palin and the media's hysterical reaction to it.

It will drag on for six more weeks just as the Civil War did for two years after Gettysburg and WWII did for three years after Stalingrad, but the rest is pointless.

AxmxZ said...

nj_moderate: LOL, you are SO full of shit. I'm a University of Chicago grad; I live in Chicago. Obama is the city's own darling. Aren't you tired of humiliating yourself every time you type something?

Bets n today's Gallup? I say it stays at McCain +2 or drops to +1.

Brad said...

Time will tell, both John K. and NJ-mod are right about that.

Too bad that bounce is already ending. Remember when Obama was up 2.4% and you screamed it was not staistically significant - but it sure matters now!

LOL! Conservative lying bait.

MATT J. H. said...

McCain is running on images and story. Obama is running on policy. Policy loses. Obama was at his best when he never mentioned policy, now he's become a policy wonk.

He needs to get off policy, and to a story of what he's going to do. I know the media wants policy positions but voters don't care.

OTF said...

NJ Moderate,

I live in Chicago and you no shit about Chicago.

MidPointMan said...

brad -

So far $30+ Million from "Lawyers and Lobbyists"


This was as of July and he has taken in $100M more since then:

Lawyers & Lobbyists $24,279,665

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/indus.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

Over half of his money is coming from Corporate sources...

Agribusiness
$1,199,042

Communications/Electronics
$13,938,812

Construction
$2,928,408

Defense
$479,588

Energy & Natural Resources
$1,459,153

Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
$24,860,257

Health
$9,527,306

Lawyers & Lobbyists
$24,279,665

Transportation
$914,172

Misc Business
$17,174,268

Labor
$150,538

Ideological/Single-Issue
$3,821,384

Other
$41,526,292

Trevor said...

The MN and IA numbers are surprising even given the convention; the "MIMAL elf" should be a straight blue-to-red gradient from north to south if there are no other factors (such as Clinton being from Arkansas, which made it unusually blue in '92 and '96.)

My guess is that both will settle down to about O+5 within 2 weeks.

John K. said...

"My guess is that both will settle down to about O+5 within 2 weeks."

I heard that from libs. Two weeks ago.

MidPointMan said...

Top Donors to Obama: Law Firms and The Investment Groups That Brought You The Sub-Prime Meltdown...

Goldman Sachs $691,930
Citigroup Inc $448,599
JPMorgan Chase & Co $442,919
Google Inc $420,174
UBS AG $404,750
National Amusements Inc $389,140
Microsoft Corp $377,235
Lehman Brothers $370,524
Sidley Austin LLP $350,302
Moveon.org $347,463
Skadden, Arps et al $340,264
Time Warner $338,527
Wilmerhale Llp $335,398
Morgan Stanley $318,070
Latham & Watkins $297,400
Jones Day $289,476

MidPointMan said...

Brad -

The bounce is not ending. Nate's data proves you wrong.

Do you read this site?

VinceP1974 said...

I'm amazed at how some of you Left-leaning folks still hold out hope that the media will uncover some dirty that will then cause people to leave McCain.

Are you really that blind to the fact that the majority of people in this country have utter contempt for the media?

The fact that all the Media people are saying negative things about Palin has absolutely no bearing on what the voters think of her.

How could you not realize the enormous backlash against the media that is going on right now?

Do you think people think it's a bad thing Palin wanted a cop who tasered a child to be disciplined?

Do you think people will be impressed that Mr Hope and Change is attacking McCain for not using a computer because of his war injuries?

Do you think people will be impressed when Obama shows that he is anything EXCEPT the guy he pretended to be?

The entire (False) premise of his candidacy was that he represented a new approach to politics. Take that away , and what do you have? You have a cynical Democrat machinie politician from Chicago with a very questionable past and absolutely no record of accomplihsment


You people are going to give that credibility .. especially if Team Rasputin goes for Palin's jugular (as if they haven't already)?

Palin is exactly what most of the people in thsi country want.. someone from the outside who is going to stop with this destructive partistanship , and help solve hte problems this country i s facing.

People know that something isn't right about Obama.. he's hiding stuff. And people LOATHE Congress.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are the most disgracful politicians in this country.

Do you know how upset people are when that idiot Pelosi is on TV sayingn how she wont do a thing to drill for oil because she's trying to save the world?

A lot of people i know are using words like Marxist to describe what the Democrats seem to have in store for us.. and it's gettinng louder and louder.


When the facts come out about the very close association with Bill Ayers as well as an assortment of shady Muslims and Middle Easterners

and also

the role Democrats have played with Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac (basicalyl these companies were the playgrounds for Democrat high rollers) and the extent to which democrats in Congress tried to block any meaningful reform of these companies for over a decade and the fact that Obama was Fannie's 3rd highest donated to Senator,

I think we'll be lucky if there isn't a revolt against the Democrats in this country

Why do you think it is that the normally shrill and hysterical Democrat Congressial leadership is not calling for people's head over the Fannie Mae thing? Because it's their head.

Brad said...

LOL!

I guess you can count me as a lawyer, because I am, but that does no tmean I am a Washington insider.

I am also a member of agribusiness (through my employer) but that does not mean my money has any effect on policy, or was bundled in any way.

You can spin giving numbers into lies if you want - but I did not give to Obama as a lawyer, or a member of agribiz, but as an American.

I guess if you are spinning the numbers like that, it is bad that anyone with a grad degree gives to Obama as they are likely working for a large corp - but that does not mean they give as a member of large corp.

Peephole said...

I think the 22-State Strategy thing is a bit overblown.

In 4 of those 22 states (Maine, Minnesota, Oregon and Washington) Obama never ran ads but only set up field-offices. He also only visited Minnesota twice. Of the four, Oregon and Minnesota aren't exactly the safest states for Obama. Nothing seriously lost in here.

12 of the remaining 18 states were completely justified to advertise in and visit (Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Hampshire, Florida and Virginia).

Of the 6 remaining states, the amounts of money poured into Montana, North Dakota and Alaska are negligible and those first two were actually looking pretty good up until recently. Obama also never visited Alaska.

So does this leave North Carolina, Georgia and Indiana as states in which serious amounts of money and visits (3 in Indiana, 2 in North Carolina and 2 in Georgia) by the candidate were wasted? It remains to be seen.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Obama made the massive, unforgiveable mistake of trying to actually run for all Americans.

He should have been like John McTraitor and ran only to win 50%+1 of the electoral votes, by creating a culture war, pandering to extremists with a nasty, unqualified, fringe wacko VP, and pissing off everyone who didn't vote for him.

kaiserbrown said...

One variable we have no clue how to model is the voter registration drives being helmed by the Obama campaign. Places like Virginia are reporting massive upticks in Democratic voter registration, on the order of several hundred thousand votes.

Given that these voters are being registered by the Obama campaign and it's auxiliaries, the Obama campaign is immediately able to enter them on the GOTV lists, and given that many of these voters are specifically registering to vote (instead of, say, a motor voter law that causes registration as an added benefit to a main, nonpolitical, goal) the turnout of these new voters might reach a level higher than that of the general population.

If that happens, this could be a significant swing towards Obama, one that is unlikely to be seen in the polls focusing on "likely" voters who are generally screened at least in part by past voting history. If we're talking a narrow 1-2% margin of seperation amongst the population of a state like Virginia, the new voters might be dispositive in the outcome of the state, and hence the election.

OTF said...

MPM,

Once again you prove yourself to be an idiot, liar, and incapable of doing simple math.

NJ_Moderate said...

otf, anmxz you mistake popularity with performance. Everyone knows that Fast Eddie Rendell is as crooked as the day is long but he is beloved by many in the middle and left and by a few on the right even. Obama may be just as beloved but it is known that he is a Chicago-style pol at heart.

Foregone Conclusion said...

"Nope. Just like the Civil War was essentially over at Gettysburg, and World War II was over at Stalingrad, this election ended with the pick of Palin and the media's hysterical reaction to it.

It will drag on for six more weeks just as the Civil War did for two years after Gettysburg and WWII did for three years after Stalingrad, but the rest is pointless."

First of all, the media's reaction might have been hysterical, but it was a hysterical choice. The woman has serious flaws, not so much in her politics as in her governing style and general philosophy - she reminds me strongly of Bush in that way. And when people compare her to Margaret Thatcher, I crack up. For one thing, she makes Thatcher look like a member of the Fourth International.

Secondly, McCain is not really running on a positive message. Neither is he really running on a succesful negative message, other than screaming 'Barack Obama is popular!' (In the interests of balance, I should point out that Obama has no successful negative message, because the only people being persuaded by the McCain=Bush argument are people like me. He has a good positive message, but it's kind of hard to hear above the current mud-slinging). This election depends how successfully both sides communicate.

So, this election is NOT over, and the media has a crucial role to play in how it goes.

Brad said...

"Brad -

The bounce is not ending. Nate's data proves you wrong.

Do you read this site?"

Yes, clearly you don't though. Lok at the post from Nate or Sean yeasterday that says we are still int he bounce.

You can't even lie consistently.

Trevor said...

Geez John K., that's a rather hostile response to a completely fair numerical analysis.

If anything, I underestimated the two states' blueness right now on average, did I not?

If you're talking about how the national race would settle down, where did I even mention anything about it?

MidPointMan said...

Obama fundraising:

Percent of Funds Number of Contributors Total Amount
Female 41.7% 72613 $75,320,799
Male 58.3% 96515 $105,179,341


160,000 donors account for the majority of fundraising.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"According to NBC's Chuck Todd, strategists believe that 70% of the "undecideds" in the final polls will break for McCain due to the Bradley effect -- that is, they were not undecided at all that close to the election but did not want to seem polically incorrect to the pollster by saying they were opposed to Obama."

The United States of Racists.

All hail our new vice-president, patron saint of corrupt, lying rednecks.

MidPointMan said...

Brad -

So how does that mean the bounce is ending?

Give it up. You have no facts.

John K. said...

I love seeing liberals like Charles whine, bitch, and moan about what a rotten country this is just because it won't elect the Pope of Hope.

Got that Canadian visa yet, Chuckie?

MidPointMan said...

Here comes the race card...

Charles, how many are voting FOR Obama because of his race?

If they were racist, they would not be undecided, would they?

Pathetic logic is in play this morning.

MidPointMan said...

Charles -

Chuck Todd never referred to the Bradley Effect.

You are lying to us. Again.

AxmxZ said...

NJ_Moderate said: Oh, so now you concede he's popular in Chicago, just not competent? Funny, just a couple of posts up you said that "it is common knowledge out there that Obama is a dirty politician." So which flavor of bullshit are you going to be go with: 'Chicago knows that Obama is a dirty politician' or 'Chicago has been bamboozled by Obama's flash and blinded to corruption'?

Or I guess you could go for a combo: everyone in Chicago knows Obama is a dirty crook and loves him for it!

Oliver said...

You made your points in the reverse order of importance.

1. It's only September
2. There's more at stake than the presidential election.
...and so on

On that second point, I think the efforts in places like North Carolina will boost the chances that we flip more Senate and Congressional races. I also think that from a message standpoint, his efforts in longshot states drives home the principle behind the 50-state strategy: We are in this together.

Oliver said...
This post has been removed by the author.
MidPointMan said...

otf -

Go to opensecrets.org. You are calling them liars?

Nice. Obama has been lying about his fundraising sources throughout the whole campaign.

You like being lied to.

VinceP1974 said...

"I have a relative who is out in Chicago and it is common knowledge out there that Obama is a dirty politician, probably far worse than McCain but there has only been sweetness and light in report for him."

I live in Chicago. Obama is part of the machine that has brought us the highest taxes in the country. Everyone knows that Obama is the total opposite of his campaign persona.

Obama was the stooge of Emil Jones, Senate President. Jones is a Machine guy 100%. Obama didn't do anything to help get rid of the Cook County Board President Stroger who is as corrupt as they come.

All of these black "leaders" have setup monarchies in their districts.. Jones is running for reelection.. gets on the ballot, then retires and the party replaces him with his son on the ballot by decree.

Stroger was running for reelection. He had a stroke... they replace him with his son on the ballot by decree. Everyone knows his son is out of his league. Reformers appeal to Obama for help Obama gives them the finger. Son Todd Stroger wins election then announces he has had prostate cancer the whole time.

That the Democrat Party has put Obama so close to the White House is something they can't apologize enough for, IMHO

Brad said...

mnidpoint-

go to this link and then go read the ENTIRE post from Sept. 13. We are still in the bounce you ass.

Read the site, please!

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bounces

Chun said...

Tina Fey on SNL. She played Palin like a bimbo and everyone loved it. Will this image stick throughout the campaign and is that something worth worry about?

DarĂ­o said...

At the time NOW Obama takes all Kerry plus Iowa. It´s 259. He need 11 EV more.
I think the most important states for wast mony and time (for Obama) are: Kerry (Michigan, Minnesota, Penn and Winsconsin) Bush (Colorado and New Mexico).

Vanessa said...

NJ-Pres
Sep 14 Res. 2000
Obama (D) 50%, McCain (R) 41%

Was waiting on Petekent and NJ "Moderate" to break this one...

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Got that Canadian visa yet, Chuckie?"

I moved here from Canada because I loved what the United States represented. But that's all going straight down the toilet.

You people who are only concerned about winning at any cost, who don't care about voting for a guy running a racist campaign, who want a VP to an old cancer victim who doesn't know shit from shinola only because she's "like you" -- you are traitors to this nation.

Enjoy watching it implode.

Brad said...

Tina Fey took the SNL because she is perfect for it. Her impression is damn near perfect, isn't it!

capt said...

Those "national polls" suddenly matter? Waiting for the "bounce" based on your postings?

You make no sense at all sometimes.

UGH!

Thefact that you think yourself in a position to offer advice that is contrary to what you post is at minimum confusing.

Nate, stick to what you know - numbers - the advice for Barack is just too effin weak for words.

AxmxZ said...

VinceP1974: Uh huh, everyone in Chicago knows that Obama is the darling of the black establishment. They WUV him.

This place is crawling with Chicagoans. Whom are you trying to bullshit?

MidPointMan said...

Chun -

Tina Fey's caricature of Palin will not hurt her at all.

It contrasted her classiness with Clinton's anger.

It was funny. I doubt people make their voting decisions on things like that.

Casting a mother of 5 as a bimbo is a reach.

It did not come off as "bimboesque"

Charles M. Kozierok said...

P.S. I'm not a liberal. I would have voted for Ron Paul if he had gotten the Republican nod.

I love this country. I am sickened watching it being torn apart by warmongers, religious zealots, lying sleaze merchants and fools who don't care enough to inform themselves.

If McCain had run a clean campaign and convinced voters based on the issues, I wouldn't have minded him winning. But winning like this? He's a traitor to his own honor and to the country he served.

OTF said...

Vincep74,

Do you think people will be impressed that you spew the RepubliCon lines and have no sense to actually find factualk information.

My dad has had 4 rotator cuff surgeries, 2 on each shoulder, had bursitis, osteophytes, and osteoarthritis. He can't elevate his arms higher than 1/2 way the height of his chest and he can send me emials daily. Unless you fingers are broken you can use a computer. Are you really that dumb to belive every line the RepubliCons spew? Yes

Whether the trooper tasered his son is irrelevant(the kid asked to see what it was like on test setting). The trooper had already been disciplined and suspended and the case was closed. She kept pushing the case that was closed for personal vendetta relating to a family situation.

What you do prove si you are utterly stupid. It is highlighted by the usually religious bigotry at the end of the post. Thanks for proving yourself an idiot on your own.

DarĂ­o said...

Gallup

Mac 47
Bama 45

Same as yesterday.

Foregone Conclusion said...

Chun,

Frankly, Palin can't say 'I'm just a hockey-mom', and at the same time claim credit as Commander-in-Chief of Wasilla. She's not a bimbo - she's pretty darned canny, actually - but she'd be a poor VP.

As for the matter of the bounce... I've always thought that Nate has put too much store on the importance of the typical model. But no election year is typical. McCain's bounce (or, more accurately, Palin's bounce) could last til election day. Or it could fade. We simply don't know.

MATT J. H. said...

Democrats find a way to lose Presidential elections. Their doing their damnedest to do it again.

Bill Clinton spent every day he was a candidate on a focused message of being the true American from Hope Arkansaw, all the while ripping Bush 42.

Obama behaved as though the election was his, and its now a toss-up. If I were to lay odds right now, I's give McCain a 60/40 edge.

McCain is now seen as not Bush. Much of this due to his 2000 image. I believe Obama has to get off the McCain=Bush and tell us why McCain is bad news. Forget Bush, the voters have moved on.

Obama may win this election, but it is slipping away. This is very similar to 2004. Obama looks just like Kerry. No fight, the voters will see the truth, the GOP are bad, voters will see my policies are better, bla bla bla.

I'm actually thinking about laying some money on McCain now, while the price is still cheap.

DarĂ­o said...

PeteKent was from New Jersey?

Vanessa said...

capt, anybody can write anything on the internet. Just like you think you're in a position to advise somebody that they cant give advice on their private blog. If you are unhappy with what nate is writing why dont you go post comments elsewhere.

Mark said...

MPM:
You have a certain opensecrets.org link in mind? The one below shows that 29% Of Obama donors gave more than $2300 compared to MCain at 54%. 50% of Obama's donors gave less than $200.




http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/donordems.php?cycle=2008

Brad said...

midpoint-

At least you can stick to your guns even when your argument is laughable.

Tina Fay may not hurt Palin, but to act like she came off as classy in that impression is hilarious.

Are you Karl Rove?

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Matt: If Obama loses it will be because he loves his country too much to do the sort of scorched-earth campaign McCain has run.

That's not a fault. It is better to lose with integrity than to win while ripping the country apart in the process.

And it's *still* just September.

Vanessa said...

Dario, I think that's actually a good number for Obama, let's see what the poll's say once Sept 11th is removed.

Kind of worried about that Rass poll though.

No PeteKent and NJ Moderate are the resident curs.

MidPointMan said...

What we have seen is not a bounce...

It is Republicans coming back home now that there is hope they can win.

The palpable desperation on the Obama side and the media is just hilarious to watch.

It is jaw-dropping how badly they are handling the realization that they are going to lose...again.

The funny thing is that they may still win, but the spectre of "here we go again" is causing them to lost their grip on sanity.

I just pop some popcorn and enjoy the show...and laugh my ass off.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Brad: even Rove is more honest than the GOP liars on this site.

Brad said...

In this clip:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=Sarah-Palin-Gender-Card

midpoint = Rove

John K. = O'Reilly

AxmxZ said...

As to McCain's boloney about being too crippled for the interwebs - GTFO, if Stephen Hawking can write entire books from a freaking wheelchair, where he sits paralyzed in his entirety, then Mac could write a goddamn email if he had the desire to do it.

Vanessa said...

I think the conservatives were out in force yesterday after the NJ O+3 now it's +9.

NJ-Pres
Sep 14 Res. 2000
Obama (D) 50%, McCain (R) 41%

Charles M. Kozierok said...

midpointman: You are a piece of shit.

This isn't people being upset over losing. It's being upset over watching what McCain has done to try to win.

It's being upset that people like you are such racists that you don't care about anything other than the black guy not winning.

AxmxZ said...

brad: And yet both O'Reilly and Rove have called McCain out on his bullshit in the last few days. You'd think our dear trolls would know when to let go of a talking point.