Yesterday, we saw a lot of places where the McCain bounce wasn't; today we see some places where it is:
The theme here is simply traditionally red states coming home to John McCain in a big way, likely cordoning off certain corners of the electoral map to Barack Obama. A 20-point lead in North Carolina? Wow -- that's a big, shiny number. And it's probably an outlier to a certain extent, considering that Obama's numbers didn't appear to have suffered very much in neighboring Virginia. But even if it is a big outlier -- say Obama is really down 10 points rather than 20 -- and even if it's owing in part to the convention bounce -- say Obama rebounds to 5 points behind -- is there any way in hell that it's going to be a tipping point state? I think the answer to that is pretty obvious. The only reason for Obama to be maintaining a field operation in North Carolina is to help Kay Hagan.
Montana, on the other hand, I don't think is worth completely giving up upon. Obama still retains (barely) a net favorable rating in the state, and the Rasmussen poll did not include Ron Paul, who will be on the ballot. Still, Montana has gone from something like Plan D to Plan Q.
I don't know what the post-convention numbers will like in Indiana and Missouri, but I don't expect they'll be good for Obama. North Dakota, which is a little different demographically and more moderate culturally, is perhaps more likely to remain within striking distance.
Outside of those shock polls in North Carolina and Montana, things are kind of a wash. The pair of Strategic Vision polls in Wisconsin and Michigan, Obama ought to be feeling all right about, as Strategic Vision has a fairly notable Republican lean (Obama was ahead by 5 in Strategic Vision's most recent survey of Wisconsin; this is the first time they've polled Michigan). It appears that there's been some movement toward McCain in New Jersey, but FDU switched from a registered voter model to a likely voter one, rendering trendline comparisons dodgy; in any event, the Democrats have bigger problems to worry about.
Lastly, there's a PPP poll out in Florida that does not show the race tightening, as Rasmussen and Mason-Dixon did; instead, McCain has moved from a 3 to a 5-point lead. I continue to think that, as some of the red states come off the map, Florida is a state where Obama should be moving resources in.
Our trendline, although confused by some of the weird polling out today, has now almost caught up to the national averages and shows the popular vote dead-even. Obama, however, retains a lead in the electoral college projection, as the Kerry + NM + IA + CO combination remains intact, however tenuously. Obama would not be favored in any of Ohio, Virginia and Florida if an election were held there today, but they remain perfectly viable alternatives if and when he gets some arm's-length distance from McCain's bounce.
Note: the charts and graphs will be updated momentarily.
9.09.2008
Today's Polls, 9/9
by Nate Silver @ 5:34 PM...see also electoral math, florida, maryland, michigan, montana, new jersey, north carolina, oklahoma, red states, today's polls, wisconsin
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)

895 comments
Rumor about new NBC/WSJ poll that will be released on the Nightly News tonight:
Poll conducted Sept 6-8
Margin of error for an 860 registered voter cross section is 3.3 percent.
48 percent male
52 percent female
Obama/Biden 46
McCain/Palin 45
The PPP numbers in Florida look a little off to me- they surveyed more registered Republicans that Democrats, which seems to be an unlikely composition of the Florida voters.
Nate,
A few weeks from now when the polling is less volatile, I'd be interested in seeing how it is that your convention bounce correction would have interpreted this period. Have you run the results with the correction recently?
Ed Koch Endorses Obama
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Koch_backs_Obama_calls_Palin_scary.html
If you are one of the 80% that think the country is going in wrong direction, and vote for McSame, then here is what you ought to do...Take your birth certificate, go to your local county court house, go up to the person at the desk and say "Here is my birth certificate, I'm giving it to you because I'm just too STUPID to be an American"
definitely a bad polling day for Obama. So much for expanding the map...looks more and more like it will be the same old, same old for democrats. With NC, FL, OH, VA, and likely MI off the table, there is not a whole lot of options left.
Obama is flirting with the 50.0 mark on InTrade. If nothing significant changes over the next couple days McCain could surpass him to become the "favorite".
OK, I'm an Obama fan, but this is pretty funny:
Rev. Wright in sex scandal
I guess everybody's got a nut in their lives.
Charlie: Is that what Halperin was crowing about? "The race changes! OMG! WOW!" I don't get it: what's the big?
Maybe the Democrats were smart enough to leave ahead of the hurricane?
I continue to think that, as some of the red states come off the map, Florida is a state where Obama should be moving resources in.
Anybody remember a site called, I dunno, some number dot com? Seems to me back in July there was some guy there named Nate who thought that Obama was spending way too much on Florida, who wasn't going to be a swing state anyways, and that he should be putting more money into Pennsylvania and similar states.
Anybody remember a site like that?
With the exception of mountains, North Dakota is virtually identical to Alaska. (Remember that Palin accent, Nate, that you ridiculed as "Fargo?")
Both states are oil heavy. Both states are very rural, very low population density. Both states are culturally center/right, but heavy on what they perceive as "common sense."
Its crunch time in this election, I remember months ago getting all worried/excited each time a poll came out. Moods shift, Palin is a liar, and I really don't see this McCain bump going any longer than this next week or so.
Natilie-
Looks like Rev. Wright digs white women!
Best political ad I've seen in years... it's almost too good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hck2mnDqBdE
What intrigues me is that this Republican bounce is entirely driven by Palin to the extent that this has become a Palin/McCain ticket.
At their rallies, McCain is essentially, thrown in for free: Palin is the draw. We know it. The attendees at these suddenly popular rallies know it, and sure as hell the McCain campaign knows it.
Do they care about this?
MI off the table? Huh?
North Dakota? Are you smoking and inhaling? Continue to recommend pouring resources into Montana after todays poll showing a reversion to the norm in that state? (Yes, I told you so) Obama has zero chance in ND and Montana!
Obama needs to be building firewalls now and forget this 50 state strategy that morphed into an 18 state strategy and get in down to a 6 state focus (CO,MI,VA,NH,NM,&PA) If he doesn't he will stand no chance of winning.
Dammit, Nate, this is ALL transparently sexist!
The PPP numbers in Florida look a little off to me- they surveyed more registered Republicans that Democrats, which seems to be an unlikely composition of the Florida voters.
The Obama number among young voters was also lower in that poll, IMO, than it should be. He's likely up something closer to +15 with young folks in Florida. I promise.
MI: How is it "off the table"? McCain has lead in exactly zero polls there since May, including those at peak RNC bounce.
CO+NM+IA has always looked like Obama's best shot to me. I posted a diary on DKos pointing out the backdoor in I dunno, January? I thought it looked better than Hillary's chances of peeling off OH or FL or MO. Totally ignored of course, but oh well, that kind of analysis is not really what DKos is about.
If true, tomorrow's NBC/WSJ poll doesn't seem like too much of a big deal unless you were hyperventilating in response to the Gallup poll. The ABC/WaPo poll showed Obama +1 in RV, McCain +2 in LV. And if I were a betting man, I would bet we see O+1 in Ras tracker tomorrow as well, as my breakdown suggests he had a good night last night.
These results are counterbalanced by several other polls showing a small McCain lead. I really don't see the huge deal here... if there is any truth to this poll result, anyway.
I don't understand how Virginia could be a two point race and McCain is suddenly ahead by 20 points in North Carolina, when the two states have been polling about 4-5 points apart from each other for the entire election. One of these polls has to be way off.
NC poll doesn't make any sense. I live in Raleigh and teach in a neighboring (rural/redneck) community and the support for McCain just isn't there.
4-6 for McCain... maybe, but it is VASTLY underestimating the number of new voters that were registered during the primary.
Let's find out what another poll says before anyone jumps off a bridge here.
Palin is a very new commodity. She hasn't faced the mud yet. She will.
Right now she is equivalent to "unnamed Republican" and we know "unamed Republican" and "unnamed Democrat" always do better than real people whose flaws have been exposed to the light.
Side note: the guy who thinks Michigan is "likely off the table" needs to put down the crack pipe.
McCain gets polling bounces when his message is the only one on TV. After the convention, he won't have that opportunity again.
(And yeah, NC won't be a tipping point. If Obama wins NC, he's well beyond 300 EVs.)
Sorry, copy/pasting from the Alabama thread:
I have a (maybe) stupid question.
I read this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/poll-madness-mccain-takes_n_125158.html
And in combination with Scott Rasmussen´s commentary: "Looking at the data before adjusting for partisan identification, the Republican convention appears to have created a larger surge in party identification than the Democratic convention the week before."
taken from:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
I wonder, and it´s really a bit stupid if that´s the case, is there a large number of currently McCain-leaning voters that simply are not registered, yet when they get called they identify themselves as Republicans?
That´s the conclusion I draw from comparing the registration numbers with the developments in Party ID. Is that how it works?
@ RWD, if you're referring about my MI comment, I said its likely off the table.
This comes off 2 things. 1) the local democrats their are extremely unpopular, and may drag O down with them.
2) there was some discussion of leaked internals from O, and its not good.
but, we'll have to wait and see. I still think McCain could take MI if he fought for it. He doesn't need to defend NC or other southern states.
TorrentPrime:
I don't know. Maybe that McCain/Palin peaked?
If I was in Obama's position I wouldn't do anything for a week until I could get a clear picture of what's going on. Certainly this is no time for a radical strategic shift. Though I admit they could stand to hit back a little harder.
This bodes well:
No Maverick
bryen193 said:
I don't understand how Virginia could be a two point race and McCain is suddenly ahead by 20 points in North Carolina, when the two states have been polling about 4-5 points apart from each other for the entire election. One of these polls has to be way off.
Actually, if the VA numbers are wrong, two polls would have to be off.
Wow, krwlngwthyou, full of shit much?
Obama's only needs Iowa, New Mexico and Colorado. As long as he holds onto Kerry states, he's sitting pretty.
2) there was some discussion of leaked internals from O, and its not good.
Where?
Mazza 4:46,
He could care less! They love it.
1) McCain gets credit for this audacious pick, and gets a free ride with a lot of women. 2) He gets to sit back and watch people compare Obama and Palin, which is really apples and oranges, while he sits above it all as the real boss. 3) His very personal speech moved a lot of men practically to tears at the end - which would have been a tree falling in the forest with nobody around EXCEPT for the fact he picked Palin, and the press went berserk at her, so everybody watched her, and she hit a home run, and THEN people tuned in on McCain which they would neve have done otherwise and saw this amazing personal, emotional, speech which is unlike anything he's ever done.
He's in the catbird seat.
His very personal speech moved a lot of men practically to tears at the end...
Bullshit.
I believe there is one reason why Michigan won´t go for McCain: unions.
Pennsylvania has got Ed Rendell´s party machine.
Virginia has got Kaine/Webb/Warner.
Michigan has got the unions - a mobilization advantage that McCain cannot match.
That´s what I believe, but I also think that it will be really, really close. A high-level-gaffe by Obama would turn the state red.
Republican scum are at it AGAIN!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/09/virginia-county-issues-chilling-voter-registration-report/
Newly released video shows how easily electronic voting machines can be hacked, pried open
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Video_shows_how_electronic_voting_machines_0909.html
NAFTA + High Unemployment + "Those jobs aren't coming back" + Union help...Obama will win Michigan.
Citizen Grim said...
With the exception of mountains, North Dakota is virtually identical to Alaska. (Remember that Palin accent, Nate, that you ridiculed as "Fargo?")
Both states are oil heavy. Both states are very rural, very low population density. Both states are culturally center/right, but heavy on what they perceive as "common sense."
Both have most of their population on the border with a Communist state....
I mean... Come on, James...
They couldn't even find men in the hall that were being moved to tears.
Nate:
You're awesome, but you're being a bit hysterical on the NC poll. Am I the only one who thinks SUSA might have jumped the track? And not because I don't like their results - it's just that they're all over the place. Their congressional polls just don't make much sense or seem to correspond to each other. And, I could be wrong, but I highly doubt Washington is all of a sudden in play, unless it's just a brief identification with Alaska and Palin.
What is Halperin's deal about hyping up the NBC/WSJ poll? We've seen the numbers, O46-M45 (unless those numbers are wrong). Is there some historical trend about the first WSJ poll after the conventions or something? I'm not buying into anything about "historic trends" this year. This is a different race.
"TO Whispers" you said 'She hasn't faced the mud yet.'
Whattttttttt? You are joking, right? The attacks against Palin began the instant McCain made his announcement and have been constant. You Dem's are just in a state of shock and cannot see that the mud you are throwing is making Palin stronger and immune from futher attacks. But, what the heh! You Democrats - you do the same stupid things every four years! Thank You!
Charlie: that was my guess too: Showing how McCain is *not* pulling ahead significantly.
Nate,
Why are you showing the popular vote prediction as tied? Shouldn't McCain be ahead according to the national polls? Are you afraid of making Obama look bad?
J/K :)
I was just pretending I was one of the conservatrolls that will inevitably criticize Nate on something along these grounds.
ha, I didn't want to say this because it will light just another fire.
I guess I did that, anyway.
The DKos is where the internals were, this weekend. Somebody who posts there works in MI. and I'm not outing them, because we don't do that. So live with it. And if you think I'm full of shit, so be it. I really don't care. At least I am an O supporter living in reality.
Charlie's 'rumor' on the NBC/WSJ poll result is purposeful misinformation. You'll notice his post states the poll was taken with '866 Registered Voters'
NBC/WSJ poll always samples approximately 1070 (plus or minus 5) people in each poll.
Charlie is yanking our collective chains.
P.S. The poll will show McCain up two-three pts vs Obama
We still have to wait a few days for the convention bounce to (probably) wear off. Using Nate's Rasmussen daily estimates, Obama has won the past two days by 2.6 and 1.7. Any polls with data prior to 9/8 are probably inflating McCain's numbers.
The DKos is where the internals were, this weekend. Somebody who posts there works in MI.
The DKos is a big site. Got a link?
We still have to wait a few days for the convention bounce to (probably) wear off. Using Nate's Rasmussen daily estimates, Obama has won the past two days by 2.6 and 1.7. Any polls with data prior to 9/8 are probably inflating Mc Cain's numbers.
FINALLY! Some internals on North Carolina:
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=9d3db8ba-996f-414f-b9d0-5bc16f50d34d
Apparently Obama LOST the 18-29 crowd (22% of the sample) by 3 points, and there was a 41R/40D/16I breakdown of party, with only 74% of Dems going for Obama. That's where they get their +20.
Excuse me, the 18-34 crowd.
Scott is engaging in wishful thinking.
North Carolina is now as solidly Republican as Alabama or Wyoming.
By comparison, Obama WON that group by 11 in the last polling.
I don't get the discussion about Palin's accent. I don't hear one.
But then, I do hear a fairly strong American accent from McCain. What that tells me is that Palin sounds like someone from western Canada (the traditionally mocked Canadian accent with the rounded vowels mostly exists in Toronto).
Maybe that's why I like her. She talks like an Albertan. It would be interesting to see her talk to Laureen Teskey (wife of Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper), because the accents are very similar.
Scott needs to realize that Palin energizes young voters as well.
Hello?
Hello?
Hello?
Sorry for that...I'm working out some kinks in the system here.
To add to the polling discussion, I called 7 people in Michigan about who they were voting for. Five said Obama. Two said McCain. By my count, Obama's up by a 71-29 margin there.
For Obama to only get 38% of the vote in NC, he'd have to get barely 20% of the white vote. I'm not buying it.
Scott is engaging in wishful thinking.
Odd. I never saw him say that that result is wrong.
North Carolina is now as solidly Republican as Alabama or Wyoming.
Possibly. But don't you want to wait for another poll before you walk out on that limb?
NC is not +20 for McCain. I dare say +10 is a bit of a stretch....between +4 and +7 is my guess.
to link it would mean I out the poster. Not gonna do that, sorry.
If someone else wants to find it, go ahead. But I won't be the one who outs a poster.
You can either take my word, all call me a shit head. Your choice. I don't care either way.
Nate, I'm sure this has been asked before, but is there any evidence of a convention in a state providing either a temporary bounce or a significant effect in the election results? Because Colorado looks really important in your metrics and the value of Rasmussen's Obama +3 this week is riding pretty heavily on the answer to that question. If there is no effect or a permanent one, good news for Obama; if there is only a temporary local convention bounce, not so much.
Obviously 2004 would be of no help with Boston and NYC as convention locations, but maybe going back a little further there's some sort of findable effect?
Apparently Obama LOST the 18-29 crowd (22% of the sample) by 3 points, and there was a 41R/40D/16I breakdown of party, with only 74% of Dems going for Obama. That's where they get their +20.
Hmm, that doesn't make any sense.
From SUSA - "Data Collected: 09/06/2008 - 09/08/2008"
I wonder if tropical storm Hanna had any impact on this. No major damage, but any utility outages? Not that I care too much about NC one way or the other.
I will say that with Duke, UNC, et al in the state, there's no way that Obama is -3 on the 18-34 voters in November. No way.
Jakam-
The poll says 26% Obama to 70% McCain.
Meghan McCain is one dumb bint... I just saw her take an elephantine piss on America's military families.
She's just as insane and out of touch as her Mom and Dad. Bless.
the North Carolina poll is almost certainly an outlier. Still it's bad news for Obama, 20 points is a lot. The cross tabs on young voters are out of whack, but perhaps not THAT far out of whack. There are plenty of young evangelicals in North Carolina.
I think North Carolina is out of reach, and that while Virgina certainly remains in play, it probably is not Obama'a easiest route to victory.
Totally a serious question:
Do you really think that 25% of Democrats in North Carolina won't vote for Obama like that poll suggests?
The poll says 26% Obama to 70% McCain.
If I'm not buying the poll, why would I buy its internals?
The black vote will be higher than this poll indicates.
SUSA always underestimates the black vote for some reason.
If Scott would look at the political situation in North Carolina Scott would understand the poll better.
North Carolinians call themselves Democrats, elect Democrats to the legislature and Governor, but when it comes to the Presidency they vote for Republicans. That's because the Democrats in North Carolina are conservative Democrats.
But the whitey video is real.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU
So when is this magical new MBC/WSJ poll supposed to be dropped?
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/080909_NBC-WSJ_Released.pdf
Poll is up - just not linked to on either website yet...
Nate,
You ignore the news from Michigan that the race within ONE point. So does your map, showing Michigan pretty dark blue for having two polls come out showing it as a 1 point race.
That destroys your narrative of "Red States Gain only" for McCain, but just because it doesnt help your narrative you should not ignore it.
Hurts your credibility.
Isn't the NC number actually GOOD news for Obama... because if the Palin pick has made the red states that much redder, then don't the national trackers really look pretty good for Obama at thsi point?
OK then, it is Obama +1. That's some good news for a change.
Well whadda ya know. The poll is real.
Mule Rider said...
NC is not +20 for McCain. I dare say +10 is a bit of a stretch....between +4 and +7 is my guess.
I'm guessing the same as Montana- +11 now, +6 or so in a week (post bounce) and, barring serious money being thrown at it from one side or another, about 7 points more towards McCain than average (so if the country is Obama +2, it'll be McCain +5, if it's McCain +2, North Carolina will be McCain +9). That fits what we've seen here so far on 538 and the polling.
With the usual caveat- if blacks have a much higher turnout than usual, opf course that will benefit Barack enormously, and we won't see it in "likely voter" polls.
You so cagey, MR!
krwlngwthyou said...
"to link it would mean I out the poster. Not gonna do that, sorry.
"If someone else wants to find it, go ahead. But I won't be the one who outs a poster."
If you don't want to out someone, why tell everybody what site they're posting on?
More than that, if a person doesn't want to be outed, why post on a website?
In other words: Why the hell did you bring it up in the first place?
1. The DNC "Running Man" ad located HERE is brilliant. Obama should call the creator and hire him, his campaign needs the help.
2. Palin has changed the race. She's energized the base, brought small town roots to the ticket, she sucks up undecided women, and the media loves her. Could this pick turn sour? Sure. But right now it looks brilliant.
3. We have to wait a week and check out the polls. A lot has happened the last 2 weeks and we need time to take stock.
4. As an Obama supporter, I have to rag on his campaign a little. It appears not taking campaign Finance will be a mistake as Obama is behind in the money race and struggling. Secondly, his non-combative personality has allowed McCain, and now Palin, to step on him and he and his campaign look weak. Really, really irritating. Thirdly, not picking the obvious VP choice of Hillary Clinton has allowed McCain to step up and make a game changing play. Which I must give credit, McCain had the guts to do.
In summary, Obama is in trouble in this race, and its all his own doing. He has made numerous blunders from Campaign Finance, to FISA, to not attacking, to not picking Hillary and he's on the ropes right now. If he wins thie election, I will be the first to congratulate him for his coolness under pressure. However, if he loses, he will go down as the most stupidly arrogant presidential candidate in history. The man who seemingly wanted to prove a point in winning the Presidency rather than just winning it. If he loses I do believe the democratic party will never be the same.
According to the WSJ/NBC poll Obama leads McCain heavily in voter enthusiasm.
Obama Voters:
Excited - 55
Satisfied - 33
Lesser of Two Evils - 12
McCain Voters:
Excited - 34
Satisfied - 44
Lesser of Two Evils - 22
This could be bad news for McCain, and could point to a quick drop-off from the last week of "Palin Fever".
This is an interesting take on the recent polling samples......
In a year in which Democrats have a lead of 11 million registered-voters over Republicans, and have been adding to that advantage through a robust field operation, are pollsters over-sampling Republicans?
Despite a raft of advantages in the electorate for Democrats, in September's first Gallup Tracking poll, an equal number of Republicans and Democrats were surveyed (including "leaners") from Sept. 3-5, compared to a 10-point Democratic identification advantage two weeks ago. That partisan makeup of the polling pool resulted in a 5-point lead for McCain in Sept. 5 tracking poll. Meanwhile, the new CBS poll features a 6-point swing in partisan composition toward Republicans, which plays some role in the poll's two-point lead for McCain. Finally, the latest USA Today poll, which claims a four-point edge for McCain, was arrived at after a 10-point swing in partisan makeup toward GOP respondents.
Some polling experts say the changing state of party affiliation in the field is slow to be reflected in polls themselves. Democratic pollster Anna Greenberg told the Huffington Post that "when it comes to registration and turnout, the polls often do a very bad job of taking those [factors] into account," because newly registered voters aren't in the voter files used by firms that survey public opinion. "You could make the argument they are under-representing new registrants," she said, which would mean that the Democrats new edge would not be taken into account.
Monday's USA Today poll had a 48-47 split between Democrats and Republicans surveyed. That represents a nearly 10 point shift in party identification toward Republicans since USA Today's July polling. When asked for comment, USA Today polling editor Jim Norman wrote that "it's possible" that their latest sample includes too many Republicans. Though he added, "it's also possible that we have too many Democrats," because "there's always the chance of an over- or under-representation" in polls.
Still, Norman admitted that the GOP identification in the latest survey has spiked. "The party ID in our most recent poll does show a shift away from what Gallup has been getting in earlier polls, going all the way back to 2005," Norman said. "But previous conventions -- the Republican one in 1988, the Democratic one in 1992, the Democratic one in 2000 -- have also shown shifts in party ID toward the party that had the convention, and those shifts seemed to last, to greater or lesser degrees, though the election. Further, I've been told by Gallup that their tracking poll has shown a similar shift in party ID since the Republican convention. ... I guarantee you we will be watching closely in all of our polls between now and election day to see whether there are further shifts in party ID in either direction."
And it's true. Gallup's own GOP identification (including leaners) has swung six points in the last month, from 42 percent of voters to 48, according to tables provided to the Huffington Post. Meanwhile, solid and leaning Democrats have fallen from 52 to 48 percent of those polled. For political scientists who believe that partisanship is largely stable over time -- and who take note of the advantage in voter registration being experienced by Democrats during the same period -- the newly GOP-heavy poll samples can raise eyebrows.
Emory University political scientist Alan Abramowitz is highly skeptical of the new Gallup, USA Today and CBS polls. About the latter, which showed a statistically insignificant two point lead for McCain, Abramowitz said: "One reason for the dramatic difference between the two recent CBS polls is that the two samples differed fairly dramatically in terms of partisan composition. The first sample was 35.2% Democratic, 26.2 percent Republicans, and 38.6 percent independent. The second sample was 34.9% Democratic, 31.1% Republican, and 34.0% independent. That's a change from a 9 point Democratic advantage to a 3.8 point Democratic advantage. That alone would probably explain about half of the difference in candidate preferences between the two [CBS] polls."
Wow, those polls are intense.
Nate, you should go back to making the swing states shade toward white, rather than purple, in the column on the left. It's much easier to read that way.
The Survey USA Party ID numbers (41 R, 40 D, 16 I) are COMPLETELY out of whack for North Carolina:
The voter registration stats as of today are:
2,690,910 Dems (45.3%)
1,942,232 Reps (32.7%)
1,303,207 Indies (21.9%)
People are being kind calling this piece of crap poll an outlier...adjust the numbers for Party ID and you remove about 7.5% of McCain's 58% just from moving the Republican number back to 32.7%.
Adding 5% to the Dem party ID gives Obama 4 points.
Factor in the indies and you get a much more realistic looking poll:
McCain 52
Obama 44
Which is perfectly in line with the bounce (about 5 points McCain got from his convention)
www.fivethirtyeight.com
krwlngwthyou-
I searched DKos high and low and all I found was a comment on 9/5/08saying that "Michigan Hangs in the balance". No data at all. Then she tries to get people to come up and register voters.
CNN just said Ron Paul is about to make a presidential endorsement...
Nate and Sean:
Is there any significance to a state, like NY (where I live) being 100 to 0? Would you describe how that happens?
Also, is there anything to say about several states going to 100 to 0?
Is this the same phenomenon of more and more of us living in landslide counties?
I don't know if this ads to the discussion, but I thought I'd post it anyway:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/poll-madness-mccain-takes_n_125158.html
Wonder if North Carolina is evidence that folks who were afraid to seem racist voting against Obama feel like they get a pass opting for a ticket with a woman on it.
jakam -
Really? My guess is Bob Barr. Ron Paul seems to have the Republican party as much as the Democrats do, but there's not way Paul's gonna endorse Obama.
Is there any significance to a state, like NY (where I live) being 100 to 0? Would you describe how that happens?
Doesn't that just mean that the state went for that candidate in every single one of the simulations that was run?
TIto,
The excitement for McCain in the 30s is a big jump for him from the teens that he was previously in the NBC/WSJ poll. HOwever, it is telling that even with that bump he still lags bigtime. Of course, Obama's excitment number was in teh 40s...now it's in the mid 50s..
Thanks Palin!
MR-
To get a link to linkify you've got to type this:
[a href=http://www.siteyouwant.com]Text you want to anchor [/a].
Replace the brackets with greater than and lesser than signs.
Ron Paul seems to hate the Republican party as much as the Democrats do
NBC/WSJ: Obama 47, McCain 46.
For once, a rumor was right on the money.
Like I said upthread, not too interesting if you're keeping a level head. McCain got a bounce, it's receding, polls will be within the MOE going into debate #1.
Mason,
Thank you. Once again showing your coolness.
[a www.fivethirtyeight.com] [/a]
Barack Obama will lose the debate.
Obama is great on the teleprompter. But when he has to speak "off the cuff" he stammers and stutters. Perhaps this is because, as Sean Hannity suggested, that he's afraid if people find out what he is really about America would never vote for him. Pure nervousness of that.
[a href=www.fivethirtyeight.com] [/a]
Dammit!!!!
Just a general question... with so much volitility in the polls (sampling errors, poor representation of new voters, etc.), how likely is it that Nate's entire system is thrown off?
He's basing things off of years of data, but everything points to this being an unprecedented election.
Anyone see the party ID breakdown used in the NBC poll? That will explain the differences with other polls.
I can't find it in the PDF.
Really? My guess is Bob Barr. Ron Paul seems to have the Republican party as much as the Democrats do, but there's not way Paul's gonna endorse Obama.
Works for me. The more votes Barr takes from McCain, the better ;)
Yeah, I want another NC poll before I start worrying. I don't buy it that he's losing the youth vote.
Finally someone speaks to what Obama supporters have been feeling in the gut. It was especially keen for me when I saw Obama totally lacking passion on Keith Olbermann. Here it is -- this is valuable:
http://tinyurl.com/5654qj
MR-
Replace the '[' with a (shift-,) and ']' with (shift-.).
46-45 Obama-McCain from WSJ/NBC
So much for this being a McCain runaway.
And it pales in comparison to the 8 point lead Obama was posting during his bounce. McCain has found his ceiling, and its a lot lower than Obama's.
ww
Mule... use the pointy brackets
Hey Mule rider, this page explains the link creator
I just realized, I can't remember how long it's been since Palin's speech. (I'm afraid to look at my calendar)
Six days? I think I've entered a time warp.
tibor -
Yeah, I think Palin has moved Obama's numbers too. The best way to look at the enthusiasm numbers is:
88% of Obama's voters are happy with the ticket with most (55%) being excited.
78% of McCain's voters are happy with the ticket with most (44%) being merely satisfied.
10% less of McCain's supporters are enthusiastic with most of them simply being "meh" about it all. This plays in to turnout and GOTV strategies.
The answer this seems fairly obvious.
McCain got an enormous bounce from social conservatives, who are heavily concentrated in the South and rural plains states (e.g., Oklahoma, Montana). But his bounce was not so great elsewhere - he got a smaller advantage in Pennsylvania and Michigan.
Watch out: I think Iowa polls will show the state much closer next time.
Mason, I was able to find the comment.
try doing a search about public polls undersampling conservatives.
then again, I know the posters name and thats how I found it just now.
Mule... you need quotation marks too. Best bet... look at the source code for a link which works upstream and copy that (Ctrl-U if you're using FireFox or Chrome).
Obama is not a particularly strong debater, but I chalk it up to law professor syndrome. I should know, my dad is one. Having watched interview, it seems to me that he would like to give a 20 minute answer to each question that explores all of the nuances. Unfortunately you get 60-90 seconds and need a good soundbite. He improved significantly over the course of the primary campaign, but I have to think McCain is expected to perform better in the debate format. Which, of course, worked out fine for Bush.
RE: The WSJ/NBC party IDs...
I can't find party ID in the results, but if you want to try to extrapolate from this:
49% had a positive view of the Democratic Party; 17% Neutral; 33% Negative
40% had a positive view of the Republican Party; 15% Neutral; 43% Negative
I'm pretty skeptical of these polls right now for a few reasons.
First, you've got RV and LV numbers being mixed and match without regard to, or even disclosure of, the differences.
Second, just as when Obama was up, you've got a fairly short-term phenomenon happening, i.e., not just a convention bounce but a flavor-of-the-week story.
Third, a lot of these results seem inconsistent with each other, and the swings are just too large to pass the smell test.
Fourth, I really am wondering more and more about the wireline vs. wireless phone issue and what it's going to validity in general. I'm not one of these people who thinks that cellphone users are one big pack of raving liberal Democrats, but you just don't have too many people under 30 with wireline phones. I realize the pollsters adjust for this, but as the wireline-wireless balance tips toward wireless I am wondering whether the adjustments are becoming impossible.
Of course, and this is a HUGE caveat, I'd also notice that I'm posting this at a time when the polls are running against my preferences. That's enough to make ME stop and wonder about the validity of my own doubts.
OBAMA TRIPS UP
This one will get some media play
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_Lipstick_on_a_pig.html
Thanks to all for all the help. I'm such a dope.
To the article jumpin jehosophat linked, I'd point out one problem on the Democratic side. Using hyperbolic statements like:
"We're coming off the worst eight years in our country's history."
Seriously? I'll admit there's been some bad shit in the last eight years. But even the liberals among us would have to agree that you can pick out any number of things just in the last century (Depression, WWII, WWI, Vietnam Era) that can pass as "worse years" or go back even further to the Civil War or whenever slavery was accepted as normal to find years things were worse than the last eight.
Until you get away from such loaded statements, many people in the electorate will not take you seriously.
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/9/6/163110/9871/110#c110
That's what he's talking about.
Obama was already losing women voters. I wonder how this will help?
Obama poked fun of McCain and Palin's new "change" mantra.
"You can put lipstick on a pig," he said as the crowd cheered. "It's still a pig."
"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink."
"We've had enough of the same old thing."
A few trends that seem to repeat daily on each thread - The internals on pro-McCain polls must always be wrong. Obama ground game is always superior and will win many states in the end. Any McCain gains in any polls must only be the GOP bounce. Nate is always right. Those who support conservative views are dumb, racist, or warmongers....
Mule:
(a href=URL) your text (/a)
but use the pointy brackets instead of the rounded ones.
Get a kleenex, topshelf.
A couple points...
It's too early to write off NC - I'd want a second poll showing me double digits. As I recall, SUSA wasn't very good on NC in the primary (I believe they were the primary fuel behind the OMFG!! It's single digits freakouts), for whatever that is worth. Maybe NC isn't atop the travel plans, but unless money is a bigger issue than anyone believes, no reason to close the wallet just yet.
MT and ND - I see differently. Paul will be a big factor in MT. I'll bet he approaches 7-8 pts in the finally tally, and no matter who wins -- I'm willing to bet the final tally will be a plurality, not a majority. Both states are cheap as hell. Not to mention, Obama needs to shore up out west, where I think Palin might hurt him.
CO is the obvious target, but neither NV or MT should be written off.
On the wireline phone issue, a young person with wireline service is increasingly out of step. This is even truer for, say, a college student or recent grad. So, when the reach a 24-year-old on a wireline connection, I'm wondering how randomized that data point really is.
They've posted the WSJ/NBC poll at RCP -- McCain's lead averages out to 2.4 points. Once that +10 McCain USAToday poll factors out, we are looking at more or less a dead heat.
Some things have changed in the past two to three weeks and some things have not. Yes, some red states have probably come off the table (MT, NC, IN, ND, SD, AK) in recent weeks but what hasn't changed is the fact that we are still talking about the electoral college battle that rages in primarily red states. McCain, even at his high water mark this week, is trailing in the electoral college. Obama can lose VA, FL and OH and win the electoral college. McCain must carry all three of these states.
Polling out in the two states that OBama is truly vulnerable (MI and PA) still shows Obama with a slight lead -- again, during McCain's high water mark and BO still has the lead.
Palin -- great pick to stir up the base, but going from +18 in OK to +32 means nothing overall.
Romney may have tipped MI and NH. If McCain loses the electoral vote and MI and NH by less than 1%, he will go to his grave knowing Romney and not Palin was the wiser choice.
topshelf,
Get a life. You can't put a lipstick on a pig is one of the oldest sayings ever. Only the moronic would think anything ouf it, which is RepubliCons to play victim just like they have with Caribou barbie's record of lies.
Thanks, filistro.
Mason it doesn't matter to me, I know the context and I'm fine with it. Unfortunately for Obama most people who see this don't know the context and wont. It will be picked up by the media. Nice job.
topshelf -
Pig is not a gender specific insult. Stop being such a whiny, weak, little wuss. If you think playing the victim card is gonna help McCain, you're gonna get schooled in how politics works pretty fast.
Of course, we can send in the waaaambulance if you feel like you've just really been mortally insulted.
So, I'm just pulling this out of my ass, but I'm thinking that the Palin scandals are Obama's best hope for victory. If something huge breaks out (the Troopergate investigation results in misconduct charges against Palin) combined with high media coverage of the smaller scandals (rape victims in Wasilla paid for rape kits until 2000, banning books, bridge to nowhere flip flop) then cultural conservatives might get disheartened enough to depress turnout for McCain.
Of course this assumes that an Obama victory can only result from a depressed conservative voter turnout in battleground states. A post on response bias by Nate brings up the possibility of conservatives now "coming out of the woodwork" because of Palin, and that, not the convention bounce, may explain McCain's huge rise in the polls.
Palin, not McCain, excites conservatives, so a good tarnishing of her image might depress their hopes, and thereby depress turnout.
I'm certain Obama has many opposition researchers gathering all kinds of goodies on Palin, but he has to put together a strong case against her with solid evidence and leak it to the media through third parties for this to work (publicly keeping his hands clean of the manner, of course).
So I suppose my argument boils down to this: if you take down Palin, you bring down McCain.
Scott,
That's my point. If you oversample Dems, than those partisan favorability numbers are meaningless.
NBC did not release the weighting numbers, so it is clear this poll was weighted back to the old partisan ID numbers pre-convention to help Obama, as NBC is clearly in the tank for Obama.
McCain has a 2-3 point lead right now, all the other polls show this except this one.
It is not an "outlier" per se because of the cynical manipulation of party ID to Obama's advantage. Perhaps lefties do not want to admit this, but McCain and Palin combined crushed Obama and Biden combined in ratings in the convention, and there was some disaffected ex-GOP'ers that came home after the GOP convention.
This NBC poll ignores that, hence it is inaccurate.
Tim R: How do we know that Dems have an 11m Party advantage, though?
"Get a life. You can't put a lipstick on a pig is one of the oldest sayings ever. Only the moronic would think anything ouf it, which is RepubliCons to play victim just like they have with Caribou barbie's record of lies.
"
How about the stinking fish comment about a woman? I'm sure that will sound GREAT! Is that one of the oldest sayings ever also?
Obama's statement proves that the angry left is still flat-footed on how to deal with Palin. The liberal left is truly stumped, frustrated, and rife with panic. The election is slipping away from them, and the vicious attacks on Palin are their last gasp.
Am I the only one who remembers the cell phone vs. land line issue coming up in 2004?
I keep hearing people bring it up, but it didn't seem to be a huge deal in the polls back then, so I'm skeptical of its effects this time around. (Even though I, personally, got rid of my land line in the past 4 years.)
I also remember hearing about the Democratic groundgame last time. Obviously, Rove's was better. However, I do have hope that Democrats really have improved this time around. (Supposedly they studied Rove's tactics and even improved upon them.)
Topshelf-
Everyone knows the context of "lipstick on a pig". He's calling the ticket a pig... with lipstick.
the "stinking fish" is the old Bush policies.
I loved this. Go Obama!
(Even though I, personally, got rid of my land line in the past 4 years.)
For the record, that makes two of us.
Ladies and gentlemen, may I present for your entertainment, a completely wild theory that occurred to me this afternoon.
Comments and flame-throwing welcome. :)
Jon,
Palin's under all of that assault right now and its not moving the numbers. If the Dems ratchet it up more on Palin, that opens the door to Obama's associations without the blowback because the public will see it as tit for tat.
Obama's associations are much more damaging to the Dem ticket than the Palin scandals are to the GOP ticket.
How about the stinking fish comment about a woman? I'm sure that will sound GREAT!
You think this is about her? Get real.
We'll see what Sarah Palin says to Charlie Gibson. All she has done so far is give several versions of the same speech on the stump and at the convention. Some people think this makes her "qualified". I hope Gibson asks questions that are not pre-canned or softballs, like any responsible journalist should.
Greg,
They're flat-footed because it's another GOP candidate with a dearth of ideas and actual leadership experience who has been shoved to the forefront where she doesn't belong yet gets adoring praise.
Wouldn't you be flat-footed if your company hired your kid sister who is still a drunken sophomore delta delta zeta at Nowhere University to be their CFO when you were in line for the position?
Interestingly Gallup is one of the few pollsters that includes the cell-phone only crowd among its respondents. And we all know how those numbers look.
NBC in the tank for Obama? Gee, maybe that's why it's the NBC/WALL STREET JOURNAL poll.
let me guess, WSJ is also in the tank for Obama?
I love how on a statistical website that only 2% of the people actually look at the internals of the polls. If you did you would see that NC poll is fradulent. SurveyUsa last LV poll had 46D/33R/18I suddenly it is 40D/41R/16I...that explains the results easily drop dems by 6 and add 8 to R that's a 14 change in party ID. If you run the same poll numberswith the sample voter ID they used last time you get McCain +7. That's the real gap in NC!
Might work Charles - Clinton would shake up race
Ladies and gentlemen, may I present for your entertainment, a completely wild theory that occurred to me this afternoon.
One of the main drawbacks to choosing Hillary CLinton would be that she'd excite the Republican base to the polls. With Sarah Palin, that ship has sailed anyways, so there is little harm in doing it now.
I don 't think its outside the realm of possibility to swap Biden for Hillary, as I suspect that in such a deal, Joe Biden would almost certainly be promised the State Department.
Charles understands that the only way for Obama to win this election is to dump Biden and pick Hillary.
"Charles understands that the only way for Obama to win this election is to dump Biden and pick Hillary."
Learn how to read. I said it was a hypothetical scenario, that's all.
And even if it would work, it doesn't mean it is the only way for Obama to win. Geez.
Charles,
Not a flame throwing comment, but I'd have to say you over-analyze things a bit much. Then again, I guess that's a good trait for a political junkie.
gibson's interview is going to be all softballs. at least, that's what I expect.
the wsj/nbc poll is interesting because it seems to buttress what nate said here about red states becoming redder.
Charles,
Not a flame throwing comment, but I'd have to say you over-analyze things a bit much. Then again, I guess that's a good trait for a political junkie.
The meeting with Bill Clinton on Thursday will be interesting to be sure, and almost certainly followed by some kind of press release.
"Any McCain gains in any polls must only be the GOP bounce."
When people predict ahead of time that there's going to be a poll movement and the movement then happens, the person gets some extra credibility for saying it would happen in advance. The bounce was predicted weeks ago. The question now is what will happen next week.
Okay. I still would like some explanation of the 100 to 0 states: what does it mean in terms of the model? What does it mean in terms of the campaign?
New question: do pollsters go back to the election commissioners to get new lists of voters? If they don't, then the new registrations, which, I read, are much more for Democrats, would make much of the polling questionable.
Mason said...
"How about the stinking fish comment about a woman? I'm sure that will sound GREAT!"
You think this is about her? Get real.
Mason, you stumbled onto a very good point there.
Topshelf is the actual sexist here. Anyone who wants to turn this "fish" comment into some slam against women must already have a pretty despicable view of women himself to begin with.
Swapping for Clinton now would do one hugely negative thing for Obama: underline the flipflopper, do anything to win, no core principles, throw people under the bus at a moment's notice narrative with dark black ink.
Bill Maher today:
"John McCain is like the air marshal who tells everybody on the plane, "My friends, we're under attack. Al Qaeda is on board and wants to take our plane down. You must follow my cool, courageous leadership and do everything I say or we're all going to die.... But of course if something should happen to me, the stewardess here can take care of things."
Geoff,
Yes, Palin is currently under assault, but nothing has been proven yet, and that's why nothing is sticking. It's all rumors and speculation.
However, if someone can prove that these scandals are true, then that changes everything. It would no longer be rumor, it would be fact.
I mentioned the troopergate scandal because there is currently an investigation underway and the results could prove damaging to Palin. That would be enough to cast doubts upon her innocence in the smaller scandals, regardless if they can be proven.
jumpin jehosophat said...
Finally someone speaks to what Obama supporters have been feeling in the gut. It was especially keen for me when I saw Obama totally lacking passion on Keith Olbermann. Here it is -- this is valuable:
http://tinyurl.com/5654qj
No, its not the media's fault. American presidential elections are unique because we're the only country with 24h news networks devoting significant time to the race, and they do not follow journalistic standards like other countries, they are there no make money. This need to be profitable moves the coverage from fact based, to opinion based news and thus a medium that can be used by campaigns to their benefit.
The McCain campaign's goal is to win news cycles. It's Schmidts goal and it was Roav's goal. They release ads, use media spin and intimidation to win these news cycles and thus the voting public who get their news from these sources get biased coverage.
Democrats on the other hand do not employ this tactic, with one exception, and thus are always one step behind. The exception? The Clinton's. They have figures this out and play the game as well. They have numerous trained operatives (Lanny Davis, Kiki McClane, James Carville, Paul Bigalla) among others who are experts at this. Obama has who? Obama has campaign associates but their message is undisciplined and uncoordinated and lacking.
Paul Begalla from 2 months ago "Presidential campaigns are won in the free media,Obama must learn this". James Carville from the first day of the Democratic convention "If theirs a message behind this convention, they're hiding it really well."
The Clintons understand its about a singular message to be repeated over and over relentlessly on every network by every democrat and associate for weeks and weeks. "Its the economy stupid" was Bill's. "Maverick" and "Reform" are McCains. Obama has "Change" but its too abstract.
Obama is trying to sell his economic message but its not a simple slogan to be boiled down in 5 seconds. He seems unwilling to emply these tactics, and along with his unwillingness to fight, will be his downfall.
Jon,
I agree the scandals could tip against Palin.
You underestimate the space being built for the GOP to go on a frontal assault of Obama, and the effect of that assault on his character.
The Palin assault only paves the way.
The NBC/WSJ poll internals show that McGenius/Palin have succeeded in dividing the country along cultural issues.
This is the best way for Republicans to win the election.
Not to elaborate too much on the "stinks like fish" topic, but I've sniffed around a few women that smell about like a sea bass "down there."
The NBC poll is ridiculously tainted and should be ignored. Can anyone guess what the first question out of the box was???
That's right, the favorability of GW Bush. The favorability of Bush is irrelevant to getting good results in the poll regarding the presidential race and could have been easily asked at the end.
Gallup doesn't do this. Please see interview bias on their site.
It's like starting off the interview with "as you know, Republican President has one of the lowest ratings in history. What do you think of him."
Next question, Republican McCain is running as George Bush's third term. What do you think of him?
I exaggerate a small bit only.
Filly:
If McCain is the pilot and Palin is the stewardness on a plane where McCain is trying to stop Al Queda, what are Obama and Biden in the same analogy?
Obama is the passenger who thinks he can talk Al Queda into not killing everyone on the plane, and Biden is the old guy in the background who seconds the notion out of a belief in the good of humanity.
Unfortunately, talk and belief in fairy tales about Al Queda won't get the job done either.
yup yup. The Palinista factor is gonna fizzle out like flat coke in the coming weeks. Looks more and more like 2004 with slight map advantage Obama. Frankly I don't care how he wins. Just win it!
Good point Jack - that is probably the most biasing question you could possibly ask in this political environment.
Swapping for Clinton now would do one hugely negative thing for Obama: underline the flipflopper, do anything to win, no core principles, throw people under the bus at a moment's notice narrative with dark black ink.
In other words, what the Sarah Palin did for John McCain.
A lot of Minnesotans were pissed at the way McCain led Tim Pawlenty on, or "thrown under the bus as you put it".
Minnesota is off the table.
filistro,
I heard this Bill Maher comment, along with some by Letterman, Leno, Comedy Central.
Can not be sure, but Obama supporters dumping on Palin may be a reason for 12% of white women moving from Obama to McCain in this latest NBC poll. To his credit, Senator Obama took the highroad, but with friends like these....
Latest Polling Developments
Interesting state of the race!
If Obama's lead in Colorado holds in upcoming polls, McCain will likely need to flip Michigan or Pennsylvania. Doable, but tough.
too funny to hear the GOPer trolls complaining about 'bias' in polling questions...
HA
but seriously, Obama is ready to fight back:
""You can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. You can wrap up an old fish in a piece of paper and call it change. It's still going to stink after eight years. We've had enough," [Obama] exclaimed to a standing ovation."
@ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080909/ap_on_el_pr/obama_palin_10
'Obama puts heat on Palin as she boosts GOP ticket '
lipstick indeed !
If McCain keeps up with the slimy stuff like that new ad, he's going to open Pandora's Box.
The Dems are going to go straight after the base of his personal mythos, his so-called "heroism" and "honor" in Viet Nam. Then the fun will really begin.
I'm not sure how much more of this sickening garbage the Obama camp will tolerate before letting loose the floodgates.
FloridaGOP,
Yes everyone is dumping her...in other words asking why it has taken two weeks to hold an interview and in the mean tine repeating the same lies daily on the bridge to nowhere and earmarks. The level of hypocrisy is outstanding by RepubliCons. There were people in the GOP inteviewed the day she was picked that didn;t know the hell she was..99% of the public doesn't and the media isn't suppose to find herrecord since she gave no interviews and nobody heard of her. The false victim bullshit is the ultimate level of hypocrsiy but par for the course for the RepubliCon party!
FL GOP... boy, are you wrong about women!
The most important thing for women is to feel safe. They want to know that their kids will be safe, and their home will be secure.
Ask any woman how "safe" she would feel if Sarah Palin suddenly had to take over the presidency.
Sure it might be fun to watch Geena Davis on TV in that role (shudder) but trust me, it doesn't play well for a woman in the voting booth.
For those of you that are concerned that Charles Gibson might toss softballs to Palin, Consider these questions:
"What, he asked Obama, could he do to prevent people from lying about his record? "Why do people hesitate to use the word `lie' about these things?"
Olbermann drew the smile from Obama when he asked whether the candidate should use more "exclamation points" in its statements. "Have you thought of getting angrier?" he asked.
He praised Obama for his use of the word "enough" in his convention acceptance speech and wondered why the Republicans, in his words, were having success muddying the waters of the campaign."
It is a shame that this is what passes for a tough interview these days.
Some conclusions:
Montana is out. North Carolina is likely republican.
Michigan is lead dem (no toss up because Strategic Vision is a GOP pollster).
Winsconsin is likely dem (the same as Michigan, +3 in a GOP pollster).
New Jersey is likely dem (same).
Dario - Dem pollster PPP showed the same single point lead for Obama, so you're wrong on that state.
It is a tossup in Michigan.
RE: the Paul (non-)"endorsement"
Texas Republican Rep. Ron Paul will call on supporters to back a third party candidate for president Wednesday, rejecting his own party’s nominee and offering equally harsh words for the Democratic candidate, according to a senior Paul aide.
Paul, who unsuccessfully sought the Republican presidential nomination, will tell supporters he is not endorsing GOP nominee John McCain or Democratic nominee Barack Obama, and will instead give his seal of approval to four candidates: Green Party nominee Cynthia McKinney, Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr, independent candidate Ralph Nader and Constitution Party candidate Chuck Baldwin, according to the aide.
The announcement will take place in the morning at the National Press Club in the nation’s capital.
(via CNN wire)
FloridaGOP,
I don't think anyone doubts that Olbermann is an Obama cheerleader. If Obama refused to grant media interviews to anyone except Keith Olbermann, he would be justifiably criticized (and would have never gone anywhere in the primaries let alone the general election). But of course, Obama has done scores of other interviews with other members of the press who have asked tough questions...this week even going on Bill O'Reilly's show. (Side note: has McCain ever gone on Keith Olbermann's show?)
So you're right to point out that an interviewer such as Gibson tossing softballs to a candidate is hardly a rare occurrence...it's when these interviews are the candidate's only appearances that is a problem.
"For those of you that are concerned that Charles Gibson might toss softballs to Palin"
The difference is that:
1. Obama didn't just get pulled out of someone's ass 10 days ago; and
2. Obama doesn't hide like a coward from the press.
Christ.
Lol @ all the people saying the lipstick/fish thing will have no impact. Really? It wont have any impact because it's one of the oldest sayings? I'm sure it would have no impact if McCain, referring to Obama, dropped a "monkey see, monkey do" line. It's an old saying so what's the problem? Only delusional partisans can't see the idiocy in Obama's comments.
The only way Michigan goes Red as a tipping point for McCain is if there's a Bradley Effect there. Kwame doesn't help. I figured when I first heard about Kwame's misgivings back in the middle of the primaries that he could be the one thing to stop Obama. That better not be the case. It would be fascinating to see a map with Romney as the Veep. I know McCain didn't like him, but Michigan would've probably flipped Red. There's Mormons in Nevada and Colorado too. I'd still guess Obama wins Michigan in a tight election.
Top:
Are you crazy? If MCCain said that, it'd be front page of NYT/WAPO for a week and every cable network....
Filistro,
I am just attempting to give you another view.. Let's translate Bill Maher -- You have this Senator who is going to protect you from terrorists.
And then we have a college educated, 12 year politician, elected governor, managed the state and it's budget for a couple of years, and for all of that -- she is JUST a stewardess.
We obviously talk to different women. This infuriated them -- some joke,
"Lol @ all the people saying the lipstick/fish thing will have no impact. Really? It wont have any impact because it's one of the oldest sayings? I'm sure it would have no impact if McCain, referring to Obama, dropped a "monkey see, monkey do" line. It's an old saying so what's the problem? Only delusional partisans can't see the idiocy in Obama's comments."
It won't have any impact while John "Watch My Honor Disappear Before Your Very Eyes" McSlime is running ads suggesting Obama wants to teach kindergarteners about sex.
McCain has become a total piece of shit, and anyonme who supports him should seriously think about what that says about them.
The new John McCain ad is hard hitting. It will be a game changer that helps the American people see what Obama really is.
With the Detroit Mayor scandal and the poor approval job of the Democratic governor, this polls are good for Obama.
But about it, one thing is a governor election and other is the presidential election. The Bush´s approval job in Michigan is one of the worst in the country and the high unemployment not helps McCain in MI.
The last Detroit Free News said that Michigan voters prefer Obama in economics issues for a large margin.
And remember that Michigan is the rusbelt state with more left elements. At the end, Michigan go blue.
Well, with Charles's hateful comment above, it looks like this site is going hateful again against anyone who doesnt toe the lefty line. It never ceases to amaze me that allegedly open minded liberals are so authoritarian and hateful to anyone who supports the opposing side.
Take care folks.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/9/18192/04144/290/592615
Post a Comment