Here's the long and short of it for John McCain: Barack Obama has as large a lead in the election as he's held all year. But there is much less time left on the clock than there was during other Obama periods of strength, such as in February, mid-June or immediately following the Democratic convention. This is a very difficult combination of circumstances for him.
On the strength of a set of national tracking polls that each show Obama at or near his high-water mark all year, our model projects that he would win an election hold today by 4.2 points. It discounts this lead slightly to a projected margin of 3.3 points on November 4, as most races tend to tighten as we approach election day.
This lead might not sound like that much, but it's fairly significant: we've been through two conventions and one debate, voters have dug their heels in, and Obama's position in the Electoral College is extremely robust. Trimming away a 4-5 point lead isn't that difficult over the summer months -- in fact, McCain accomplished exactly that in July and August -- but it's a steeper hill to climb after Labor Day. And if anything, our projection may be lowballing Obama slightly, as the aforementioned national tracking data (which incorporates one day of post-debate interviewing) has Obama's lead in the range of 5-8 points; the model will need Obama to hold those numbers for another day or two before it catches up to them.
Democrats have no reason to be complacent. Although the situation looks dramatically better for them than it did two weeks ago, so too have the stakes of the election increased. The next president will face perhaps the most challenging set of circumstances of any since Franklin Roosevelt, and could potentially have nearly as much impact on the future direction of the country. Obama could very easily lose, and even if he wins, odds are that there will be at least one more swing back toward McCain in the intervening 37 days. Nevertheless, as Isaac Chotiner suggests, I believe that the national punditry is understating the difficulty of the position that McCain finds himself in.
*-*
There is almost no action at the state level today. Mason-Dixon has John McCain ahead by 16 points in Tennessee and 12 in Kentucky; SurveyUSA has Obama up 16 in Connecticut. Among these results, the only remotely interesting one is Kentucky, and then only because it suggests that Obama might be able to avoid a complete disaster in Southern Ohio.
9.28.2008
Today's Polls, 9/28
by Nate Silver @ 4:01 PM...see also connecticut, kentucky, national polls, tennessee, today's polls
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Matthews calls McCain a troll.
I apologize if someone else posted this, but I just saw it, and it's pretty funny. McCain is described as using "feel good Reaganesque" language but without any of the body language or temperament to go with it, so there is some cognitive dissonance coming across between what he says and his delivery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suaSR9NvwqM
And now for something completely different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNVuuhurbZA
He disdained wielding power, but when he did as Consul of Rome, he suppressed the Plebians.
Which makes him a good paleo-con. I'm not one, don't like those guys, but squashing the proles is their game.
Neo-cons are dangerous for a whole different set of reasons. It's a whole different ideology. A neo-con Cincinnatus may have encouraged the domestic Plebians while invading Dacia to supposedly free people.
thanks, fred
VC:
>>What part of "I will vote for the bailout" don't you understand?
We understood it. We also understood "I won't be at the debate if there isn't a deal on the bailout"
I'm thrilled Obama is doing so well in tracking polls, but in this *particular* election, I'll believe it when I see it.
Throughout my life, I've had run-ins with vast array of racist pigs who were seemingly otherwise normal. The United States remains one of the most unenlightened countries in the world with regards to tolerance of others.
I'll believe Obama's 5-7 point edge (or whatever it is at the top of November) when I see it on the other side of Election Day. I personally suspect a large (though perhaps not enough to make the difference) number of voters will "chicken out" at the polls, and give in to their inner racist.
Such is my low estimation of the average American.
I can only hope that:
1) The number of people who fall into this group is less than I fear
AND/OR
2) The number of "cell-phone/young" voters being consistently underrepresented by tracking polls eats into the effect enough to make a difference.
I've heard and read about the lack of a "Bradley Effect" and agree with most of what I have read. I don't think the effect is nearly as large as some have proclaimed. Then again, these studies are based on actual races involving an African American candidate -- not a single one of which has been a presidential race.
As this is brand new territory, I'll wait and see what happens. Indeed, I will continue to be heartened by Obama's performance in the polls. However, by no means will I become the least bit complacent...primarily because of the reasons outlined above.
Just something I wanted to get off my chest.
Here's to hoping everyone who wants to vote for Obama, indeed does vote for Obama.
-- Joe
(Not "Real" Joe, thanks.)
(I guess that makes me False Joe. So be it.)
(False Joe sounds like a fun name for a chain of Decaf Coffee Shops.)
(Try out our brand new Counterfeit Frappucino today.)
(Nope, didn't spell check it. Errors? Oh well. :)
There is hope yet for the ancient one. I am sure everyone saw his new surrogate this morning. One William Jefferson Clinton. He, in his own take on English, sang McCains praises and damned Obama with his very faint praise. Paybacks are a bitch mofo
Don't get shaken by the bad news.
Don't get cocky about the good news.
Don't get distracted.
Just pay attention to what needs doing, and keep working.
@ He:
New Florida poll:
McCain 75
Obama 2
McCain +114
New Virginia poll:
McCain 60
Obama -5
McCain + 53
You're going down libtards!!!
LOL
From Reuters
http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/09/27/mccain-disappointed-that-media-declared-debate-a-tie/
“I was a little disappointed the media called it a tie but I think that means, when they call it a tie, that means we win,” McCain said...
As I've joked, KY and TN are very grave news for Obama, because they have both voted for the presidential winner most of the last few decades. :)
Seriously, Indiana at Obama 55%, Florida at 59%? wow.
Check out the flickr of behind the scenes pics Ben Smith has up on his Politico blog. Some great shots
http://www.flickr.com/photos/barackobamadotcom/sets/72157607533135519/
NEW PA POLL!!
Fred - 52
Pete Kent - 30
Bradley Effect - 10
NEW VA POLL
Va. Con - 80
He - 22
NEW NY POLL
Jets - 56
McCain(AZ) 36
THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR 538 FANS!
I'd love to see a few polls from Texas. There haven't been any since 08/21, when McCain was averaging a lead of about 10%. It could well be into single figures now.
^^ More to the point, there's no reason that Cornyn should be running ahead of McCain, either (box turtle has been below 50% approval.)
While I believe in polls, I have been around for a long time. And Joe expresses my fears quite well. I hope that there are not a lot of secret racists out there, who won't even admit it tothemselves until they "pull the lever." That is the Bradley Effect I still fear. (I voted for Mayor Bradley, by the way.)
CAreful. Bush is closing in on bin Laden. I think they are going to try and bag OBL, and make their own October surprise.
@stayathomedad
Unless Sarah Palin bags him and John McCion flies the pane I don't think it's going to have any effect. (And if they do -- it's a stunt!)
IDEA:
THE GAMBLER
Picture footage of McCain throwing the dice in a craps game slow motion, as we read this statement that McCain made in his biography:
"I make them (decisions) quickly as I can, quicker than the other fellow, if I can. Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint."
Right after the baritone voice finishes reading this statement..we cut to raPId fire images of foreclosures, coffins draped in flag...cutback to dice flying through air......cut rapid fire images of poverty, sarah palin and war, cut back to dice landing on table....
Screen goes black narration voice says:
McCain is willing to gamble with our future...Are you willing to take a chance on John McCain?!
something like that!
thoughts?
SvK
The bradley effect discussions just will not die. Use the post tags on the left to find Nate's excellent discussions on the Bradley effect. Remember, since Republicans already have good reason to vote against Obama, we are most worried about secret racism of Dems and independents, a population that is at least partially represented by the Democratic primaries (which were competitive and representative). Nate uses primary results to dispute the effect. Other studies point to the effect not being seen in most elections since the early 1990's.
However, I will add that I wasn't thoroughly convinced by Nate's arguments in the Midwest (Obama did over-poll a bit there). One of the reasons that I'm not willing to call this election quite yet is that I'm not comfortable with putting PA, NH, OH in the Obama column(the latter two being less relevant, I know, due to their status as a low-vote and landslide state, respectively). However, he is strong on offense, never thought NC, IN would be in play. Luckily, those worried about racism should be heartened by Obama's strong polling in MI, a state where recent political events have made attacks with racist undertones slightly more effective.
“I was a little disappointed the media called it a tie but I think that means, when they call it a tie, that means we win,” McCain said...
Which only goes to show what a loser he is.
BTW/ I share the "don't start celebrating" sentiment of several other Obama rooters here. We have to weather 5 more weeks of deceptive campaign ads, 527 ads, efforts by the McCainers and his supporters as well as Bush to scare everybody, vote suppression efforts -- all kinds of dirty tricks.
And there really still are undecideds out there and potential Obama voters to register. Not to mention, our own candidates can make mistakes along the way.
I agree with Juris' pessimism. But we have one secret weapon in reserve.
And our secret weapon is --
S A R A H P A L I N
Haha the freepers are losing their freeping minds:
Ras is not very accurate period.
People go on and on about him because he called the 2004 election but so did the Battleground Poll.
He blew the 200 election by 8 points .
In fact, his state polling track record is not great but POOR.
The Mason Dixon polls ( if there not subcontracted by NBC etc..) are fairly accurate .
Btw, someone is claiming to be registered as a "chaos" Democrat... what the hell does that mean?? Republican in disguise to confuse polling or someshit?
Yes, Sarah is probably McCain's greatest gift to the Obama campaign. But in keeping with her witchcraftery links, I suspect there's some sort of secret message in hidden in her name.
An anagram. When properly decoded, it may even suggest extraterrestial connections.
My aging dad thought that Sarah must be secretly Jewish. The first name, after all, was a signal. And her, as he put it, "brashness." Even her last name, he said, "Palin." Must have been a reduction from Palinovski or somethin Russian.
Never mind that her actual family name was Heath, and her parents were Roman Catholics (if not devout), and that the Palin name comes from her husband and he's partly descended from indigenous peoples.
Mind you, he didn't think the Jewis connection was a bad thing. It implied a certain pedigree, as far as he was concerned.
Still, that S A R A H P A L I N. There's a message in there somewhere.
I think my favorite FR comment was: "It's too bad that the party in power always gets blamed for these kinds of economic problems but Hussein is going to get in because of it anyways"
Or something along those lines.
I mean seriously, why can't the public understand that the party in power should never be blamed for when the country gets off-track? It's crazy, I tell you...
Bin Laden probably died of natural causes a few years ago, so Bush isn't going to bring him in this October or any other time.
Yeah, the FR should rename itself the Scot Free party. No responsibility, no accountability, least of all when you really fuck up the country for 300 million people.
CAreful. Bush is closing in on bin Laden. I think they are going to try and bag OBL, and make their own October surprise.
The more bullshit I hear, I'm starting to wonder if Bin Ladin isn't in Detroit somewhere. We swear he's in Pakistan, Pakistan swears he's in Afghanistan (outside Kabul there isn't a great deal of difference between tribal Pak and tribal Afghanistan).
There was just a story out of Canada where someone had a bad name so he changed it so he quit getting flagged at airports. All bin Ladin has to do is switch out to Bob Bin Ladin and he could be living in NYC for all we know.
I live in NYC... I'll keep an eye out for him.
Nate couldn't agree with you more:
Nate, couldn't agree with you more: http://theliberalcrab.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/keep-plugging/
KARLO said...
The bradley effect discussions just will not die. Use the post tags on the left to find Nate's excellent discussions on the Bradley effect.
Thanks for the information, Karlo. As I believe I mentioned, I've read many studies on the supposed Bradley Effect, including Nate's fine work.
First, I'd like to note that by no means am I arguing that there will be one, nor even that one is likely. I am simply expressing an opinion that I personally believe some variation of it to still be a possibility.
Second, with regards to such in a presidential election, I have issues with the studies I have seen in general...
A) The primary results Nate uses are those of the most recent Democratic Primary.
"Democratic Party Primary Voters" is a sample-size that carries no small amount of selection bias, in my opinion. I would strongly suspect those who are enrolled in the Democratic Party AND care enough to vote in the primary (many enrolled don't care about or vote in the primaries) would tend to be more left-leaning than your average Democrat or Independent.
At the risk of having several flame-throwers aimed squarely at my ass, it is my experience that these voters -- the ones who identify with the Democratic party strongly enough to vote in the primaries (some may call them more "liberal" the Sally and Sal Sixpack) -- are far less likely to be vaguely racist than Democrat and Independent voters in general.
This makes Democratic Primary polling and subsequent results a poor fit for arguing against any variation of Bradley Effect in a general election.
B) The use of mayoral and senate races certainly gives us valuable information. But there is no study that involves a presidential race.
Well, duh! Of course not, because there's never been one. So this is not the problem I have.
I personally know -- unfortunately -- at least two people who say they could accept a black congressman or mayor, but not a black president. They just can't "wrap their heads around it". They insist -- of course -- they are not racist, blah blah blah.
(Side note: I'm working hard on these two poor souls, I promise.)
I suspect the number of people who fall into this boat is small, but not insignificant. After all, we've already had African-American mayors, governors, senators, etc. But never before a president. It's a first, and that makes it a harder nut to crack practically by necessity.
It's absolutely naive to assume that the following is not true:
Some voters can accept one (a "fill-in-the-blank" senator) but simply not the other (a "fill-in-the-blank" president").
Therefore, I feel the studies I have read ignore this effect. Namely: that of the higher office necessitating a higher threshold of tolerance for some people. Not all bigots are of the straight "all or nothing" variety.
Having said aaallll that...I'd like to reiterate that I *agree* with Nate about the cherry-picking of results and the over-reliance on decades-old data to support a strong Bradley effect.
Hell, I don't even think those I worry about would even *lie* to pollsters. The Bradley Effect -- as strictly defined -- is not something that concerns me as much. I simply think there will be a non-insignificant number of people who flat-out change their mind when it comes time to vote, or in the immediately preceding days.
I hope not. But it wouldn't surprise my perhaps overly-cynical mind in the least.
Ah well.
-- False Joe
Gallup had the race tied on the Wed. morning that McCain made his crazy suspension and McCain is now down 8 in Gallup. What could have made McCain make such a self-inflicted wound that makes him look unsteady and ties him to the unpopular bailout?
I think Steven's idea of the gambler ad at about 9pm is excellent. Its good straight forward but it has legs too. A lot of people don't know McCain loves to gamble. So, when people talk about it and someone tells them its more than a metaphor they will go "wow". Just the thing, clever for those tuned in, a jolt to the dolts. Way to go Steven, named after the first christian martyr, thinking for the cause.
"I'm going to make sure you have Miss Alaska standing by in your trailer waiting to blow you at all times"
Ha-Ha
Ari Gold. From Entourage September 28th. Seriously. Strangely timely.
www.sarahpalinrumorcheck.blogspot.com
www.cuttingconfessionsfilm.blogspot.com
www.myspace.com/370392338
There is a stark lack of state-level polling to back up the model's projections in IN and FL. Is everything functioning properly? McCain leads in the last 5 state level polls in FL, but Obama is projected to win? Same basic thing in IN. I thought the model was built to undercount changes in the national trackers, but it feels like they're weighted much too heavily if they're swinging states away from the clear trend of state-level polling.
Ummm...the sox weren't eliminated from the post-season this afternoon. It only feels that way because they have to beat the Tigers and Twins in back-to-back games to get in.
Maybe if the Sox brought in a rookie with utterly no experience to pitch tomorrow. He could just keep hitting batters and walking people, then claim victory based on a lack of hits in his box score.
Where are you getting 59% chance for Obama in Florida and 84% in Virigina?
Alyssa--
"He blew the 200 election by 8 points ."
200? They're talking about elections during the Roman Empire now, and Rasmussen was around to predict them? :)
'Btw, someone is claiming to be registered as a "chaos" Democrat... what the hell does that mean?? Republican in disguise to confuse polling or someshit?'
Rush asked his viewers to participate in "Operation Chaos" after the Republican primaries were over by temporarily registering as Democrats to scramble the remaining primaries and damage Obama/keep Hillary in the race.
I suspect this is where we got so many "PUMAs"--many were technically registered as Democrats late in the game but were pulling for McCain. Moreover, states like WV and KY had many right-leaning Dems to begin with.
was out in my front yard yesterday evening when an older couple pulled up to say hi. they are well-known republicans in our precinct. they told me they are emphatically voting obama--they'd just seen the series of Palin interviews with katie couric and were throwing in the towel. They asked me to keep the information secret, as they are very active in the local republican scene and didn't want to be punished, as they had to sign a loyalty oath in 2004.
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