9.22.2008

Today's Polls, 9/22

We may now be getting a firmer sense of how the electoral map has changed in the post-convention universe:



Where is Obama polling well? In Virginia and North Carolina, where he gets a couple of very strong numbers today. Both SurveyUSA and the ABC/Post poll show him with a lead outside of the margin of error in Virginia, although the latter depends on just which version of the poll you use (we use the registered voter version with third-party candidates included; as of next week, we'll switch over to the likely voter versions). And in North Carolina, Civitas confirms PPP's finding from yesterday and shows the race as a dead heat. Rasmussen is more tepid on both states, but still, the trend on balance is favorable for Obama in this part of the country.

Virginia is now projecting very slightly ahead of Obama's national trendline, and would seem to represent a better pickup opportunity for him than Ohio. I'd assume that the Obama campaign is fairly pleased with that, because this is a state where they overperformed during the primaries, where they have Tim Kaine in the governor's mansion, and where the Republicans don't have quite as much of a ground game, as they are not used to having to defend the state in Presidential cycles (remember, John McCain is mostly relying on George W. Bush's scraps from 2004).

So where isn't Obama polling so well? In Ohio and Pennsylvania, where his numbers remain sluggish. While Obama would very probably win Pennsylvania if the election were held today -- he ticked up a couple of points in Rasmussen's numbers -- it has gradually moved toward Obama's national averages. What that means is that if the national numbers revert to a tie, Pennsylvania may be vulnerable, which is why it has moved up and now rates as the most important tipping point state.

The model's thinking is basically this: in a very close election, Obama probably won't have too many problems flipping enough Bush states. Iowa and New Mexico seem to be absolutely in the bag for him. And somewhere -- maybe Colorado, maybe Virginia, or, somewhat less likely, Ohio, Indiana, Florida, Nevada or North Carolina -- he'll pick up that last state he needs to get him to 269 or 270 electoral votes. We don't know exactly which one of these states he'll flip, but he'd have to have a fairly bad run of luck to come up short in all of them, particularly as they are pretty well diversified across the demographic spectrum. But all of this could be for naught if he blows Pennsylvania or Michigan. Michigan seems to be moving in his direction, whereas Pennsylvania is going the opposite way.

(Why are the states moving in opposite directions? Michigan has notably higher unemployment than Pennsylvania -- meaning that Obama's newfound economic populism may have better resonance there -- whereas Pennsylvania has a lot of pro-life moderate Cathloics, a group with whom Sarah Palin probably performs well).

Obama doesn't appear to have any such problems in Minnesota and Wisconsin, each of which gave him a good poll today, and which probably represent big teases for McCain. But he does have trouble in New Hampshire, where the University of New Hampshire gives McCain a 2-point lead. This was a weird little poll -- it was in the field for a week and there are different versions floating around of its numbers -- but UNH has a strong track record, and with little other polling to look at in the Granite State, it needs to be taken seriously.

311 comments

AnotherMike said...

Great day of polling for Obama.

David HG said...

It seems your state-projections may be placing a bit too much emphasis on national polling trends. While Ohio is blue currently in your model’s simulations, polling there has been consistently leaning toward McCain (including today’s Rassmussen numbers). I know you know this, Nate, and perhaps it’s due somewhat to your regression analysis that Ohio shows as an Obama pick-up when polling shows that it is likely not.

But I’ve been forcing myself into reality checks vis-Ă -vis the model’s current Ohio/Nevada projections. They simply don’t seem to reflect current state polling, some of which has been conducted during the Market “boom.” for Obama.

Just my thoughts. Any reactions?

MikeAipe said...

When certain polls show John McCain leading, you will say they are outliers. When polls show Obama leading, you will say they are very 'accurate'.

If NORTH CAROLINA is a dead heat, why isn't MINNESOTA? 2 polls have shown McCain and Obama tied in Minnesota.

Mike He said...

What about PPP with NM as O 53, M 42, +11 O?

De Montfort said...

Losing Virginia might be fatal to the GOP this year.

Tito said...
This post has been removed by the author.
AxmxZ said...

What about the +7 Republican ID advantage in the NH poll, doesn't that undercut the +2 M a bit?

michael said...

Thanks, Nate, and btw, thanks for the RCP explanation. I agree with you that reserach 2000 should be on the "inside" of the RCP smell test line, but at least their rationale does not seem nakedly partisan.

Speaking of house effects, 3 Virginia polls today

survey usa Obama +6, ABC Obama + 8, Rasmussen, McCain +2. Are you factoring in the apparent GOP house effect of Rasmussen on polls in states like PA and Ohio?

Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...

Today's polls are SURREAL NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!

Tito said...

Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...

Today's polls are SURREAL NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!



^^^ Drugs are bad for you kids.

Dan said...

You said that PA is the 'most important' tipping state? Why is it in position number 4?
Sorry if it is obvious, but I don't understand ...

invadermarx said...

Seeing the race fall into a relatively steady state like this coupled with the new study that shows a potential for a ~1% bounce either way, historically, from the debates, and this looks like a very good position for obama.

And that is without the ground game disparities and cell phone problems being taken into account.

Hopefully my optimism is borne out on 11/4.

ialex said...

What the hell is up with Georgia? I actually don't believe it. Not that I think Obama will win it, but hell, even Bush didn't win Georgia by that much in '04.

Fizz Byers said...

I can't eat enough polls, please feed me more! In other news, I'm a 27 year old independent from South Carolina and I recently closed my first international trade with China. I really hope Obama and McCain debate their plans for free trade and the role of globalization in our economy this friday... http://www.popduds.com

InkStain said...

"If NORTH CAROLINA is a dead heat, why isn't MINNESOTA? 2 polls have shown McCain and Obama tied in Minnesota."

Learn to read. Please.

He didn't say NC is a dead heat. He said the poll in question showed it as a dead heat. One poll, in NC or Minn, don't mean the state is a dead heat. Keep beating those strawmen, though.

AxmxZ said...

One thing is for certain: we need more CO polls. VA seems to be turning blue ahead of Obama's national numbers. Now we need at least two more polls to see if CO is turning blue at the national rate, ahead of the national rate, is staying the same or trending towards McCain.

CA Hawkeye said...

Nate or anyone else, what is the historical pattern of PA? Does it tend to flucuate or continue steady trends in one direction. Show dramatic changes as we get close to Nov., etc.? Any other insight would be interesting.

Roger said...

I've been scratching my head all day about the Diageo poll: How could it have swung from O+1 yesterday to O+5 today, YET at the same time show McCain closing the gap on "best on the economy" to O+1?? I can't figure out what would lead to a strong one-day top-line uptick for Obama if the sample is so much more skeptical of him on the economy than the day before?

By the way, I am completely in the tank for Obama, so please don't attack this as "conservatrolling." I'm just confused.

Also, what is the story with the "Battleground" tracking poll?

CA Hawkeye said...

Nate: Forgot to say good analysis in the previous post on RCP. Thanks.

Jordan said...

At the end of the day Obama will win all those states that Kerry won in '04.

He's got New Mexico and Iowa all but wrapped up. He just needs 1 more to flip.

It wouldn't surprise me if he gets 3 or 4. My only question is how big the Obama victory will be.

Mark said...

Nevada is very intriguing, and I am more and more convinced it will flip. Kerry lost there 50-48, and with Obama's strength with Hispanics, I have to believe he will improve on Kerry's numbers in Clark and Washpoe counties (Kerry got 52 and 47), as well as in more rural areas like Elko, where Dems completely ignore.

I am very interesed to see how Florida trends in the next 1-2 weeks. I think it might go back towards McCain, but if it stays this close, he's done come November 4.

NC_voter said...

Day (13) of the "fundamental shift" toward McCain that PeteKent, Greg, and Michael were telling us about.


On this day, September 22nd, in 2004, President Bush led John kerry 48.5% to 42.8%.
For final results, please see presidential inauguration, January 2005


At no point from now on did John kerry ever retake the lead.



Wow, look how BLUE that map is!


Things are looking like 1980 all over again...

Looks like I finally will be living in a blue state this year :)

Kris said...

Things are looking pretty good for Obama, but he'll probably have to watch himself a bit in Pennslyvania. I don't think he'll end up losing it, but it's one that's vital to keep. New Hampshire too, but it's less vital due to the low number of electors at stake.

There's a big disparity between Rasmussen and SurveyUSA and the ABC/Post in Virginia ... eight and ten points. I wonder what's causing that. If I were to hazard I guess, I'd say that Obama's probably ahead in Virginia by a few points. It's a big pickup opportunity for him and it should be taken for all it's worth.

North Carolina is looking increasingly good, and it would look really good for Obama if he won it, in terms of shaking up the red/blue state dynamic. My gut reaction is that Obama will not win North Carolina, but he'll come close.

I'm still wagering on Colorado and Virginia as Obama's tippers. I would never call myself a statistics expert, but I think he'll win both of them. I don't have a strong gut about Florida or Ohio- Rasmussen is fairly Republican-leaning, though. Nevada is a good opportunity for Obama too.

In short, my current prediction is an Obama victory via Kerry States + NM/IA/CO/VA, with the possible loss of New Hampshire.

287 to 251 if he loses New Hampshire. Huh. That's a familiar-ish number. The best case, if Obama wins North Carolina, Ohio and Florida would be 349-189. I don't think that that is likely, though.

There's still an avenue for McCain to win if he wages a good defence and seizes Pennslyvania. But overall, I'd say Obama's probably about a 65% favorite to win.

Mark in VA said...

I'm glad to see Ohio looking more white. It gives me more confidence in the model, because frankly I see FL turning blue before OH. This week has been a full-on spotlight on economic woes, Obama's strongest issue against McCain, just about as uniformly bad for McCain as it can get. If OH is still polling +M, it's over.

Hold the Kerry states, except maybe NH, and go get IA, NM, CO, and VA. I wouldn't want to have to depend on NH. Do whatever it takes to hold on to MI and, especially, PA. I say let OH go the way of WV.

Andy said...

Team Obama has a bit of a dilemma: should they try and consolidate in states like Virginia, Colorado, and North Carolina - or should they still put a lot of effort into winning places like Ohio and Indiana? They won't want to split resources in such a way that they end up losing them all by a tiny margin.

AxmxZ said...

nc_voter: The GOP will rue the day they mocked community organizers. It's that focus on small communities that's going to turn Obama's macro advantages into votes in every crucial county of evey crucial state.

InkStain said...

" I've been scratching my head all day about the Diageo poll: How could it have swung from O+1 yesterday to O+5 today, YET at the same time show McCain closing the gap on "best on the economy" to O+1?? I can't figure out what would lead to a strong one-day top-line uptick for Obama if the sample is so much more skeptical of him on the economy than the day before?"

When you only poll 300 people per night, you'll get some wild swings and wonky nights. The night that went off was a wonky pro-McCain night.

Virginia Conservative said...

Ohio is irrelevant.

Pssst said...

Hey Nate, thanks for the update --- speaking of polls, I was just looking at your pollster ratings, and I'd seriously suggest that you remove Zogby Interactive from your calculations. Their level of accuracy is nowhere near the other pollsters, and your ratings seem to agree.

I know that every pollster comes up with wacky results occasionally, but Zogby Interactive is regularly weird:

McCain +10.3 in FL?
McCain +6.3 in NH?
McCain +4.8 in PA?

I mean, they aren't even close to the other polling done in those states. I know you give Zogby Interactive less weight in your averages, but I'd guess they actually inject more noise into your numbers than useful data. Better not to include them at all, I'd say... Anyway thanks as always for the service you provide --- this is a great site.

tomthress said...

"I've been scratching my head all day about the Diageo poll: How could it have swung from O+1 yesterday to O+5 today, YET at the same time show McCain closing the gap on "best on the economy" to O+1?? I can't figure out what would lead to a strong one-day top-line uptick for Obama if the sample is so much more skeptical of him on the economy than the day before?"

There was some talk in an earlier thread that the move in the Diageo poll was driven by a very good polling day by McCain last Thursday (the day that Diageo first narrowed to a 1-point lead) dropping out of the poll.

As far as why Diageo shows Obama and McCain even on the economy, I don't know what to tell you. Like you, I find that odd, and inconsistent with an overall 5-point Obama lead.

Guancous said...

I discussed why the old Republican smear machine is losing its draw in my blog, Heartless and Brainless. It bodes well for people looking for fresh solutions.

InkStain said...

Zogby Interactive once showed Obama ahead in Arizona.

Geoff said...

Before patting yourselves on the back too much about this polling sample, keep in mind this is Obama's peak of the Dem economy message.

AxmxZ said...

andy: Well, we know from Plouffe that they are making a massive play for Florida, on the scale of $39m. This is clearly a provocation to McCain: he can't afford to lose Florida under pretty much any circumstances, so they are probably just drawing money war of attrition.

InkStain said...

"As far as why Diageo shows Obama and McCain even on the economy, I don't know what to tell you. Like you, I find that odd, and inconsistent with an overall 5-point Obama lead."

Most polls show Obama and McCain fairly close on the economy.

This is *very* good news for Obama. McCain needs to win independents by a fairly large margin. If the focus is on foreign policy, it's doable. If the focus is on economy, then they split, and splitting independents is a big win for Obama.

AxmxZ said...

geoff: It's hard to say ahead of time what anyone's "peak" is. It looks like a peak now, but it could very well be a hilltop. Or not. No way to foresee.

InkStain said...

"Before patting yourselves on the back too much about this polling sample, keep in mind this is Obama's peak of the Dem economy message."

Funny, it looks a lot like the race has looked the entire time outside the convention bounces.

Hillary said...

Based on the statistical evidence abstracted here I am prepared to declare that Obama will win all 57 states and over 70% of the popular vote. Who's with me?

Virginia Conservative said...

It looks a little different. I've never seen Virginia this blue and NC/FL this pink while Ohio is white.

InkStain said...

See, this is why the lying conservatives around here have such a good racket going.

I recall that geoff got caught lying yesterday, but I get his lies and PeteKent's lies and MR's lies mixed up, so I'm not sure how to mock him.

Vern said...

There was something somewhere about how the Survey USA poll was conducted Sunday morning, meaning church goers were under-represented.

Given the ridiculously high correlations to party and other demographics, it's almost like the polls should stop asking who the person is going to vote for and just try to measure how many of which demographic group is really in the state, and then what percent of them will vote.

Think of it as party ID adjustment taken to the next level.

Speaking of which, I know polls like RasRpts adjusts, but do they do this differently by state? I have to think some states vary hugely in party ID - such as MA vs. UT. If you use the same 38-33-29 split everywhere it just can't be right.

Brandon said...

There was a poll right around this same time in '04 that actually showed Bush leading in PA.

I guess that's why I don't worry too much about PA turning red this time around just because McCain is within a couple of points.

DarĂ­o said...

PA is more swing than NC.
NC is a traditional red state, so is more trouble for McCain in NC that Obama in PA or MN.

MrInsight22 said...

A week before the election in 2004, half the pollsters had Kerry ahead and on election day the exit polls said Kerry would win, carrying FL and OH. We know what happened. And that was without a Bradley effect.

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

The most important states are Colorado and Virginia. If the republicans hold both, they win. If the dems get one, they win.

All the other swing states (PA, MI, FL, OH, NC, etc.) are likely to be irrelevant, since if the republicans win both (CO and VA), they'll definitely be keeping all their former territory and maybe more, and vice versa for the Democrats.

Also, look at all the BLUE on these polls!!

joshua said...

this isnt obama's peak, it might be in state polling, but in the national treds obama's been losing since saterday, at obama's highest he was up 8 in gallup, today obama 4, ras has been same everday, even the crazy's at kos has obama losing 2 points or so. obama's high was sat now it'll be coming close again just like it was before the vp's and conventions.

everyone knew this election would be close, and anyone who would want to say otherwise i would laugh at them.

Geoff said...

Ink
Disagree - Obama is in better position now than before the conventions, based on the financial crisis. He's maxing out on the fervor.

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

"keep in mind this is Obama's peak of the Dem economy message."

Bullcrap. This is the convention bounce and Palin effect wearing off, and now down to nothing.

NC_voter said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Inkstain said...

I think Obama will not only win all 57 states but Europe as well. He truly is the saviour we have been waiting for.

Alex S. said...

Aah...I cant remember having seen Virginia that blue... I am 100% sure it will flip. The 2 Kerry states Obama needs to worry about are Pennsylvania and New Hampshire. (Personally, I believe Pennsylvania will become a red state in the future; with Philadelphia being the new New Orleans) If Obama manages to flip one more state, either Indiana, North Carolina, Florida or Ohio (in that likelihood) he doesnt even need to take car eof that anymore. And that would decide the election (Nevada alone is not enough without New Hampshire).
The attacks on Indiana and North Carolina were brilliant calls of the Obama campaign... even IF the McCain campaign opens a few more offices, they won´t have the time to turn it around. I think the Obama-wave will be too fast for them, especially in Indiana. Sometimes you just have to try I guess.... (and the "pundits" said it was all about Missouri/Ohio....)
I heard the Clintons will campaign in Ohio. Apart from the fact that they say a lot and don´t do much, I still think Ohio will be a pure toss-up. If Obama was white he would have the state in the bags.

InkStain said...

"A week before the election in 2004, half the pollsters had Kerry ahead and on election day the exit polls said Kerry would win, carrying FL and OH. We know what happened. And that was without a Bradley effect."

Lying again, I see?

http://www.pollingreport.com/2004.htm

Only two polls had Kerry ahead in their final 2004 numbers, and they were Democratic house polls.

Brandon said...

A week before the election in 2004, half the pollsters had Kerry ahead

Uh, no they didn't.

http://www.pollingreport.com/2004.htm

DarcyPennell said...

I will be SO SAD!!! when Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! stops posting. His non-sequitur posts always make me SMILE!!!

Jinnantonix said...

Wow! Look at all the blue in those polls!

DarĂ­o said...

Please, stop to talk about the Bradley Effect, stupid racists.

NC_voter said...

Well with MI and MN constantly polling outside the MOE in favor of BO - Including in Scotty R(epublican)'s polls! - I think it's time that even the McCanities here should admit it's a lost cause.

PA polling better than they were for kerry four years ago (bush had a lead), without ever showing a lead for McCain? I think it's safe to say that PA is to the DEMS what MO is for the GOP. Sorry folks, but you can scream "BRADLEY AFFECTT!!!" (which also means you clearly have no idea what the effect actually is) all you want, but PA is gonna stay blue this year. Which is sad, because it was your best and really only chance in the rust belt. It was a nice pipe dream for you guys, but the economy issue has shown everyone that McCain isn't wearing any clothes, no matter how many times he tries to tell you that "the fundamentals of the economy are strong"

VA now polling in favor of obama the last 3/4 polls?? Two polls now showing NC polling TIED?? Considering these are two states that Obama over-performed the polls in during the primaries, this is HUGE NEWS. You guys can have NH - we'll take VA any day of the week.


PS: Folks, when you have the regular trolls talking about how the latest biden/obama/surrogate "gaffe" is going to be HUGEOMG!, it means they have NOTHING. Remember, they've been peddling this "omg this is huge!" BS 100 times over the last 3 months, and never has it gained any traction whatsoever. Forgive them though, it's all they have.

PPS: Out of the last 15 elections, whoever was polling ahead at the end of september ended up winning the election 13 times.

nc_voter said...

Although I will admit that the "I was shot down in a helicopter" gaffe by Biden is probably going to hurt Obama six ways til Sunday. It would suck if Obama lost the election because of one stupid statement.

sdf said...

I guess that's why I don't worry too much about PA turning red this time around just because McCain is within a couple of points.

And I don't see this as a bad polling day in PA either -- moving +3 from last week's Rasmussen to this week's would seem to be more than noise. It would have been nice to have some internals from the Mason Dixon folks, but oh well. (Keeping in mind in particular that the internals from the PA Big Ten Battleground poll were a bit off -- e.g. only 5% of people polled were African American, compared to 13% of PA electorate in 2004 exit polls.)

Steve said...

My parents are moderate, middle class, pro-life Catholics in the Philadelphia suburbs. When I talked to them by phone the week after the Palin pick, they thought she was an absolutely insane choice that cemented their intention to vote for Obama. Now this is anecdotal evidence, they'd already voted Obama in the primary, and their demographic may track completely differently on Palin outside the Philly area. But Biden actually is a Catholic, and evangelical churches aren't exactly know for being Catholic friendly. I don't see her as appealing much to mainstream Catholics as such; if she does do so in PA it's probably more that she's appealing to small-town, hockey (more likely football in PA) mom types that happen to be Catholic. But despite his performing below expectations in the polls here, I'd be very surprised if Obama lost PA.

InkStain said...

I'm going to post this again because so many people want to talk about the Bradley Effect without knowing what it means.

The Bradley Effect is not the idea that a black candidate will always underperform his polls.

It's a *specific* effect in a *specific* type of race. It's an effect where a black candidate is widely considered superior and well-ahead of a damaged or inferior white candidate, leading to white voters who support the inferior candidate to be embarassed.

To argue that the Bradley Effect is going to exist in this election is to argue that McCain is a weak, damaged candidate who is widely considered inferior to Obama.

I don't think that's true, but if you want to argue it, great :)

AnotherMike said...

I've been scratching my head all day about the Diageo poll: How could it have swung from O+1 yesterday to O+5 today, YET at the same time show McCain closing the gap on "best on the economy" to O+1??

It's likely that a very bad polling day for Obama rolled off the three day average. On 9/18, Obama was +4. On 9/19, Obama dropped sharply to +1. The likely very bad polling day that caused that sharp drop just rolled off their average.

jpindenver said...

Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...

Today's polls are SURREAL NEWS!!! For John McCain!!!


Do you know what 'surreal' means?

The Fly said...

Remember, had Gore not lost New Hampshire, Florida would not have mattered.

People overlook it for some reason, but New Hampshire is vital

Becky Sharp said...

A prize for the first Republican to admit Palin was a terrible mistake!

Strangeite said...

Thank you 538. You have convinced me and my wife to spend a week in Ohio with family volunteering for Obama.

joshua said...

umm, 3/4 poll's havent show'n obama up in VA, 2/2 have had both up in the last few day's.

joshua said...

palin's better pick then biden, she's still beating him on who people would pick for pres if they elected the VP. so how's she a worst choice?

Stuart said...

I wonder if the NM number for Obama means they can move some resources from there to NV.

Intrade currently has Obama at 278:

Kerry + IA+CO+NM+NV.

I'm kind of surprised VA is still pink at Intrade. Based on today's polls it sure looks blueish to me.

Vanessa said...

Obama is like so going to win. He is like oh I don't know +100 everywhere now. Like he is so going to win everywhere. Even Delaware. Which you know was going to go for McCain before the Biden pick. He'd like better not take Biden's gun though.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

We got awfully close to focusing on PA like we did with VA this morning.

PA is made up of six distinct regions as polled by SUSA: They break out as follows:

Northwest - 5%
Southwest (Pittsburgh) - 22%
West Central - 7%
South Central (Harrisburg) - 13%
Northeast (SWB) - 13%
Southeast (Philly) - 41%

We know the big registration advantage in SE PA.
We know there is a N-Effect in the Northeast and the Western regions. We think this effect will break out 60% for McCain and 40% not voting or staying home.
We know that PA races are pretty tight in general.
We do know that the Democratic party has been on a bit of a roll in PA with four presidential wins in a row, a pretty popular (not great) Governor, Senator Casey, etc.
We do know that the economy has taken quite a hit, not as bad as Ohio or Michigan, but pretty tough.
We also know that PA is slightly more educated than OH, but not as much as a VA, NJ, etc.

What else do we need to know?

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

I live in the Philly suburbs, and my family and I are all voting Obama. Even my mother said that McCain just picked Palin to try to trick women into voting for him, and she isn't politically savvy at ALL! LOL!

But yeah, Obama won't win Ohio. I honestly can't see it happening sans a landslide.

charlie45 said...

The Fox-Rasmussen polls look a little more skewed than the other Rasmussen polls. Note the Virginia +2 M compared to the other Virginia polls today +6&+3 O. Also Florida +5M compared to yesterdays two Florida polls +1&+2M.

InkStain said...

"People overlook it for some reason, but New Hampshire is vital"

Not this year. Few of Obama's paths to victory flip if he loses it.

Even without NH, the following paths work:

Kerry, IA, NM, CO (tie, likely though not certainly resolved in Obama's favor)

Kerry, IA, NM, VA

Kerry, IA, NM, OH


The only path NM takes away is Kerry/IA/NM/NV

DarĂ­o said...

The fly, Gore lost NH because the liberal NH vote went to Nader. Only fot this reason.

Strangeite said...

Actually, I meant to say I will be working for McCain in Ohio. He is a war hero and a far better choice than a community organizer like Obama.

Kevin said...

The Kerry + IA/NM/CO path is still intact. The polls in MI/MI/WI should put the "Obama's in trouble" to rest in those states. The 3 states voted Dem in the last FOUR presidential elections and will not flip in this political/economic environment. In PA, frankly, a 2-3% lead is fine with me. The Rendell machine and Pitt/Philly markets seals it for Obama in that state. Obama is on offense. I still predict a 273-265 Obama win, but it's nice knowing that Obama has more paths to 270 and McCain has to defend ALL of OH/FL/NC/IN/MO/VA/NV just to have a shot.

Sedi said...

"I cant remember having seen Virginia that blue... I am 100% sure it will flip."

No, no, no! It will be difficult to flip VA. Obama has a great organization here and is working very hard, but VA is NOT a lock. Let me repeat: VA is NOT a lock to flip. I just don't want folks getting carried away here, counting chickens before they are hatched. It might be because I live in the most conservative part of the state, but VA also has a long history of going for the GOP. Obama has a good fighting chance to win it. IA is a lock, perhaps, not VA.

NC_voter said...

Check the BLOGGER ID's folks, that NC_voter that posted after me is an impostor.


Silly RepubliClown trolls. Losing your mind already? It's going to be ever worse after the debates, by the way.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

We know that the war has been deeply unpopular in PA for some time, too - for more than four years.

InkStain said...

Holy hell, Vanessa's got a faker and I don't.

What the *hell* do I have to do? I've been practically guaranteeing a narrow Obama victory since July!

Virginia Conservative said...

The only thing Virginia is a lock for is a recount.

Jeb said...

"palin's better pick then biden, she's still beating him on who people would pick for pres if they elected the VP. so how's she a worst choice?"

Is that you, Mo? Mo Ron?

InkStain said...

"He is a war hero"

How many times do you have to lose a plane to lose that status?

Tito said...

The Fly -

NH was vital in that race. And if this race came down to Kerry+IA+NM+NV then losing NH would be the deathblow for Obama. But, with it trending towards McCain while VA and CO are trending towards Obama, NH isn't high on the radar. If it came down to focusing resources in NH or PA to hold one of those states, those resources are going to PA.

Every EV counts, but a 4 EV state is lower priority than a 9, 13, or 21 EV state.

DarĂ­o said...

Ohio goes to McCain because more people in Ohio don´t vote for Issues, only for "moral" reasons.

Roger said...

Thanks for the insights on Diageo, but it still seems strange that Obama would get a big topline night on the same night as McCain getting an almost equal jump in the "best on economy" measure....

Anyways, I hate to agree with agree with the more partisan GOPers here, but it probably IS true that--once last week's economy issues are fully digeted into the swing state polls (which, I suppose, may yet be a few more days)--that will probably be Obama's high-water-mark as far as economy-driven votes, barring some REALLY HUGE economy developments before November.

That is NOT to say that Obama's lead will inevitably come down.... I just think it means that will represent all the juice he'll be able to squeeze out of the economy lemon (an apt metaphor, I like to think).

Polls showing movement TOWARD McCain in places like OH, OR, CO(and NH?) despite last week's economic developments are troubling. If those don't consistently turn back to Obama, that could mess up a whole lot of nice paths to 270.

Virginia Conservative said...

Any poster from Colorado here to breakdown the regions/demographics?

InkStain said...

"barring some REALLY HUGE economy developments before November."

How much huger does it have to get? We haven't begun to see the end of this.

"Polls showing movement TOWARD McCain in places like OH, OR, CO(and NH?) despite last week's economic developments are troubling. If those don't consistently turn back to Obama, that could mess up a whole lot of nice paths to 270."

What polls showed movement to McCain in Colorado?

AnotherMike said...

Team Obama has a bit of a dilemma: should they try and consolidate in states like Virginia, Colorado, and North Carolina - or should they still put a lot of effort into winning places like Ohio and Indiana?

We've seen lots of changes among the states just in the last two weeks. Nate's already written stories about possibly pulling out of FL and NC. The last week suggests that would have been way too premature a decision to make. Obama has pulled out of GA, AK, and ND. Right now, I wouldn't pull out of any more. But if he were to pull out of some more, I'd drop MT, MO, and IN, in that order.

DarĂ­o said...

He´s a war hero?
AND?
Kerry was a war hero too.

dario said...

Actually I've been more concerned about Vermont flipping this year. The proximity to New Hampshire which has boosted McCain's presidential aspirations in times past have made Vermont more open to the "Maverick" overtures. And I wouldn't get too excited about Virginia. Ain't no chance that baby is gonna go blue barring a huge landslide for Obama. Same thing with Ohio, although I think PA is relatively safe for our blessed hope Obama.

tibor75 said...

What are the odds that Obama wins VA, but loses PA? I guess that is possible given the polling, but somehow I don't see that scenario happening.

Eric said...

For what it's worth, I believe this is the key to the whole elction. Nate's explanation is concise, perfect, and probably the most relevant thing anybody has written lately. Pennsylvania is the key.

Burt said...

At this point, it looks like VA, CO, IA, and NM are lost causes for McCain. They should abandon those states, throw everything they have into defending NV, NC, and OH, and try like hell to flip MI or PA. That's their only path to victory at this point.

NC_voter said...

On further inspection it appears to be the user "DARIO" that impersonated me.


I suppose I should take it as a compliment. As they say, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Though it sure as hell didn't help McCain by imitating bush's economic policy!

Obama:286
McCain: 282

...and that is a conservative estimate!

Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...

Maine is LOOKING GOOD!!! For McCain!!!

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Thanks for the updates from the Philly suburbs. Do we have any Lehigh Valley people in the house? What are you seeing? I know they ran the Babbington AP analysis article in the Morning Call recently.

DarĂ­o said...

I´m the true DarĂ­o.

Boulder Liberal said...

Actually the Colorado internals are very interesting for a number of reasons. Colorado Springs is a very conservative area, but Denver is trending liberal. It's all over the board and the other races sure help, but I don't think Obama is as strong here as you might think.

Kevin said...

meant MI/MN/WI

Eric said...

There's a decent chance that the death-nai in the coffin for McCain was picking Palin. Perhaps she'll wow everyone from heretofor, especially in the debate, but my sense is she's those internet stocks that went bankrupt. She's a net negative and could be the reason he loses.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

More regisration numbers from the Harrisburg Patriot News.

dario said...

Knock it off nc-voter. Quit impersonating me jerk. It's not funny. We only do that to conservative voices around here.

Clay said...

I'm starting to think we have a problem in PA. The trend there is not encouraging when the national trend has been the opposite. Obama is not in a good place at 45-46% of the vote right now. Could North Carolina, Virginia and Pennsylvania all flip this cycle? That would be wild!!

I'm in South Florida and I think Florida is looking better for Obama everyday. Sarah Palin has not played well here with undecides and indpendents. If Obama performs as well in Florida as is shown nationally with Non-Cuban Hispanics and African American's I think McCain will have trouble. WE NEED BILL AND HILLARY TO PARK THEMSELVES IN FLORIDA FOR THE TWO WEEKS BEFORE ELECTION DAY!!!

C.S.Strowbridge said...

Almost no change in the numbers today. That's what I want to see... stability.

To me this indicates that the model used on this site is accurate.

No major news should result in to major changes in the numbers.

eric said...

In fact it says a lot about Alaska that someone like Palin could be elected to statewide office. Let's send her frostbitten butt back to the hind end of the union. Obama has 143 days more experience on the national level before running for office than this Tina Fey-impersonator. She'll probably cry when she loses too.

InkStain said...

"I'm starting to think we have a problem in PA."

That poll McCain led was really scary...

Alex S. said...

The ABC/WashPost poll was almost scared to project the huge news for Obama, so they covered it in a jungle of different results. And while Virginia is not a lock, I think the "trend" towards Obama is there. A trend that will carry him to a +3/+4 point win in Virginia. A few moderate republicans will come on board, Warner coattails, higher turnout. (the 100% sure is just my feeling)

NC_voter said...

My apologies darĂ­o. It appears that even our dumbass impersonator forgot the accent of the "Ă­" in your name.

He has used the names:
"nc_voter"
"dario"
"Boulder Liberal"
"eric"

and his user ID (which doesn't change) is:
08742999642953783214

So if you see a user with that user ID, it is the impersonator. Maybe someone with some more time can examine user ID's from common trolls and figure out who it is?

AnotherMike said...

Although I will admit that the "I was shot down in a helicopter" gaffe by Biden is probably going to hurt Obama six ways til Sunday.

It's customary to put things in quotes that were actually said. Unless, of course, you're a lying piece of shit.

Kevin said...

McCain better beat Obama decisively during Friday's debate, or else stick a fork in him - he's done. Only option McCain will have is to make election strictly about distractions from the issues. Don't think it will work.

Tito said...

NC_voter -

I don't think that was Dario impersonating you. I think the person impersonating you was also impersonating Dario.

This shit is getting old, guys. I'm already getting turned off by the same partisan arguments day-in and day-out, all the trolling, lack of reality-based thinking by some posters and just bullshit in general. I'm holding my breath that maybe the debates will spark some change in the dialog here.

Without some way to validate who's posting thus leaving it open for impersonation, and the lack of any ability to rate good posters up and trolls down, the comments on this site are going to shit really quickly.

lee said...

I have a similar reaction as Strangeite today, after reading about the effectiveness of door-to-door and seeing these numbers.... I can't move to NV for the whole month, but I am now planning to drive out for at least a couple weekends next month.

Of course, we are looking at things with the first debate on Friday... who knows what could happen.

Sedi said...

"that will probably be Obama's high-water-mark as far as economy-driven votes, barring some REALLY HUGE economy developments before November."

We are about to spend up to a trillion dollars on a MASSIVE bailout package for the banking industry. The debate over the bill, what happened, what the implications are, etc., will likely last for weeks. Is it conceivable to have a much bigger economic development than this? The economy will be front and center from here on out. This isn't an issue that will just fade away in October.

C.S.Strowbridge said...

"I'm starting to think we have a problem in PA."

Same here. I'm not panicked, but it could turn out to be really, really close.

Losing PA and NH would make it difficult, but not impossible for Obama to win it all.

DarĂ­o said...

NC_Voter, my accent in the "i" is because i´m latin.

km said...

i look at the simulations, and the color of the peaks. right now it looks like the 8th or 9th most likely outcome is a win for mccain. that's too close for my comfort.

also, the trouble with this sort of thing is you're using averages. but sometimes weird stuff does happen, and you're never going to predict that if you're using a central tendency from a statistical model.

DarĂ­o said...

And if McCain lose NC and VA, what happened?

NC_voter said...

anothermike: That wasn't me, it was the impersonator with user ID
08742999642953783214

Check my USER ID. You'll notice that it's been consistent for the last month.

I agree Tito. This shit is starting to get old. Nate needs to hire some moderators (i'd donate to a paypal for that purpose) or make registration a little more difficult.

This blog could do without users like "mule rider" or CTPEM who do nothing but make trollish and/or profane statements.

STepper said...

NC_Voter wrote:

"Obama:286
McCain: 282

...and that is a conservative estimate!"

You've got them both winning. Only McCain can hold two contradictory positions at the same time!

All of this news is very significant, but it will pale when Obama and McCain debate and McCain's dementia seeps in.

Watch for that strychnine grin and the blinkning eyes.

I've been studying him for a month and he's going . . . going . . . going . . .

And there will be some subtle triggers set off as well. I think it's even possible the Keating 5 will come up -- in the middle of a discussion about national security.

Oh, yeah!

PorridgeGun said...

Don't know about the rest of you, but I was on the edge of my seat waiting for the Lifetime Television poll. Forget those other polls, that one was the biggie.



McCain at 50% in ANY battleground poll? After the week he's had? And Obama is only a few points ahead in Pennsylvania? Sorry, ain't buying it. Just as well it's the Faux News, otherwise I'd take it more seriously. I mean, who are they trying to kid?

BTW, check out the numbers for Rasmuseen's polling of Ohio last week, and compare to today.... it's laughable. I haven't even looked at Virginia. The fact that he's still got McCain in the lead runs contrary to other Virginia polls released recently.


From his push-polling, to the Palin propaganda, Scott Rasmuessen has been the good little Christian soldier these past 3 weeks. But he's kinda let the cat out the bag with his association with FOX, and Sean Hannity, in particular.

joshua said...

while i do believe if mccain doesnt do well in the first debate he has a pretty good chance to lose the election take a trip back to 2004

all the new's people were saying everyone thought kerry won every debate yet lost the election. the said he won big over pres bush in the first yet pres bush still won, that's the only thing history doesnt seem to work like some are saying they already had a poll out saying debates dont give a big bounce in the polls.

InkStain said...

"And if McCain lose NC and VA, what happened?"

He won the nomination in a year where his party was highly unpopular, and then ran a campaign that couldn't stay on message.

Simple.

DarĂ­o said...

I agree, the site need a moderator.

Johnny said...

Ok, longtime lurker finally posting. Love the site nate.

Two points:

1. Those banking on a Bradley effect is nonsensical. It's almost alarming how the GOPers are counting on racists to put them over the top. Is that what you are banking on?

The country has changed in this regard. No one is saying they are going to vote for Obama and be for McCain. It doesn't seem plausible in the current environment and doesn't have any empirical evidence in the primary season. The "racist vote" is already manifested as evidence by Obama running behind on the generic ballot and struggling in rural working class white America.

The racist vote has pretty much been chased out of the Dem party anyway except in pockets. They are all Republicans now.

It's likely that undecided's in certain demographic groups break towards McCain. This is a national election in 2008, not a state election in 1980s. Is the race close and can those votes swing it? Sure, but it isn't a "Bradley Effect," which means he has lost support he thought he had.

Also, did anyone ever think in the Bradley and Wilder elections that the data was bad in the polls? Obama isn't the first black politician since then to run for office.

I think OBama's support right now is solid and real. There are also so many other factors including "reverse Bradley effect", and GOTV.

2. What doesn't seem plausible is a 4 or 5 point Obama win nationally and losing Ohio. Rasmussen said in his report today that while OBama's numbers have moved nationally, it hasn't moved at all in Ohio. That doesn't make sense. He had the same numbers in Ohio down 3 as up 1? Ohio is not that isolated from the country.

I still think Colorado and Virginia are better targets and Obama should just try and hold PA, MI and other Kerry's get Colorado, Iowa, NM trio.

I see Obama as an incredibly stronger candidate than Kerry in 2004.

If you think a 2 point Bradley effect nationally is going to swing it back McCain's way I don't think it will manifest. Undecides may break heavily one way, but Obama isn't going to mysteriously lose support. BIG DIFFERENCE.

InkStain said...

joshua - Kerry was trailing the polls going into the debates (outside of his convention bounce).

When you are trailing after the conventions have played out, you almost always lose, debate wins or not.

Tito said...

Dario -

If McCain loses NC and VA (he probably will have lost IN too) then I think Obama could lose PA and still win the election.

Strangeite said...

WOW! I had someone try and steal my handle and make it appear that I would be volunteering for McCain in Ohio.

Let me state that in no uncertain terms that my wife and I will be walking for Obama.

If you have any doubts to the authenticity of THIS POST, follow the link and check out my blog. I have been posting webcomics for Obama for quite some time.

NC-voter said...

I looked into it a little more and our impersonator is the same troll who was impersonating Virginia Conservative and all the McCain supporters the past few days. Apparently he trolls for Obama on odd days and McCain on even days. He's pretty effective though. I for one am going to stop posting here because I'm tired of all this crap.

C.S.Strowbridge said...

"Of course, we are looking at things with the first debate on Friday... who knows what could happen."

There will be a lot of talk between Friday, the debates, and Monday, the first we will see any real movement in the polls.

Obama just needs to hold his own on Friday for it to be a win. Any McCain gaffe will be the story, after all, this is supposed to be his signature subject.

tomthress said...

"I'm starting to think we have a problem in PA. The trend there is not encouraging when the national trend has been the opposite."

I'd say that PA is the most worrisome Obama state (except for perhaps NH, but the fact that NH is only 4 EVs is why it's probably less worrisome). But I think this may be an over-reaction.

The trend in the last 4 PA state polls is actually toward Obama:

9/13 - Tie
9/16 - +0.4
9/17 - +2
9/21 - +3

And check out what RCP reports as the polls in PA for the last week on October, 2004:

SurveyUSA, Kerry +1
Zogby, Kerry +4
CNN/USAT/Gallup, Bush +4
Quinnipiac, TIE
Rasmussen, Kerry +2
Mason-Dixon, Kerry +2

RCP's average of those was Kerry +0.9. There hasn't been anything close to as bad as that CNN/USAT/Gallup poll from 10/28-31 showing Bush up 50-46. In fact, in late Aug/early Sept, 2004, Bush was pretty clearly actually winning PA. In a 12-poll stretch, Bush had 7 leads (as high as +5) with 2 ties and 3 Kerry leads.

We haven't seen anything like that this time around.

MATT J. H. said...

A CNN analyst on CNN from New Hampshire just stated that young people at the universities in New Hampshire are registering in record numbers and are likely to beat every age group besides the Boomers. They are voting Obama.

Roger said...

Sedi:

I'm just not sure how the debate over the bailout package will shape economy-sensitive voters. It is a bit of a wildcard, IMO, since the presidential candidates (both sides) have to be a little careful how they inject themselves into all of that (other than, of course, in their capacities as senators). Unfortunately, how this all plays out could be hazardous for Obama, just as much as for McCain.

Strangeite said...

Damn. I thought I was special that he was impersonating me.

Oh well.

I do want to thank 538 for the increased views to my webcomic though.

NC_voter said...

Thank you for correcting my stepper. I of course meant:


Obama: 286
McCain: 252


And that's assume things trend back toward tied until election day! If the election were held today, Obama would win Kerry + IA + NM + CO + VA + NC + NV and get 300+, possibly winning OH (which I think at this point is in the bag for McCain) and IN.

Becky Sharp said...

Google Biden and Helicopter and you will find a total of THREE stories in the entire Google News!

One is Jake Tapper with a mild rap on the knuckles. Another is some ghastly right wing site with bad grammar and worse spelling. The last one doesn't give a damn about the helicopter line outside the context of it being off-script

Sorry! No helicopter gate here!

lamh3176 said...

I think many pollsters and MSM type will be very surprised by the African American(AA) turnout this year. Due to the historic nature and interest in the election by AA, I really believe that AA turnout will be phenomenal.

I'm guessing that as in the rest of America, AA are in the minority when it comes to blogging, but I bet not many of the MSM or white people in general listen to Urban radio. People like Tom Joyner, Michael Baisden, Steve Harvey, to name a few, who are nationally syndicated urban radio personalities.

I'm telling you, ya'll should check these shows out one day. All they talk about daily seems to be this election, and Barack Obama. They are on point when it comes to registration, voter suppression, and GOTV.

Not only that, there are AA church groups, fellowships, greek organizations, NAACP who are all doing all that they can to GOTV, and help elect Barack Obama. Trust me when I tell you that this election cycle, you won't have to worry about the turnout of AA voters. It's the voter suppression tactics that will be attempted that will need to be watched out for. And even on that subject, Urban Radio host daily talk to their listeners about voter registration and voter purges.

There are a lot of Urban Radio stations, they may not individually have the numbers that Rush or Hannity have, but as a whole, they reach a lot of young people, AA, other "urban voters".

Don't underestimate AA voters this year, you will be in for a surprise. This won't be another "why didn't AA turnout" type of election. This is our time, this is our moment."

dennis580 said...

I totally agree with PA being the #1 tipping state. Obama fans can ignore PA all they want, but the fact is this state is going to be extremely close, and could very easily flip to McCain.

As the Jermiah Wright, and Obama's cling to guns and religion ad blitz the Republicans will throw out in October will be extremely effective in PA

matt j. h. said...

The youth in New Hampshire are voting 100% for Obama according to CNN. It sounds like they are supporting him in the same way the Iraqis used to vote for Saddam Hussein. Must be the middle name or something.

Bradley Effect said...

Just wait you libs this will turn around for McCain.

Sedi said...

Roger,
I get your point that we don't know quite how the economic and financial debate will play out. But, as an Obama supporter, if I had to pick one issue for the debate to focus on during the last 6 weeks, I would pick the economy. Yes, it isn't a slam dunk for Obama, but it plays to McCain's weakness and it's where Americans agree most with Obama. I'm not at all certain that Obama's high water mark was last week. It's possible, but by no means certain, in my view.

NC_voter said...

bradley effect:

That's what you GOOPERS were saying after the palin bounce.

LOL "FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT". Haven't seen Michael's or Greg's faces around here since that gem!

InkStain said...

"I totally agree with PA being the #1 tipping state. Obama fans can ignore PA all they want, but the fact is this state is going to be extremely close, and could very easily flip to McCain."

Never. Led. A. Poll. There.

Not. One.*

(except for the quasi-poll internet surveys run by Zogby Interactive, which also showed a lead for Obama in Arizona)

Roger said...

From Taegan Goddard:

"A new Washington Post poll in Virginia shows Sen. Barack Obama leading Sen. John McCain, 49% to 46%"

Reality Check said...

To conservatives--

Obama will get 85-90 percent of the black vote, however a large portion of lifelong democrats will just not vote for him, they will stay home or vote McCain.
Call it racist (although you would have to say the same for his high % of black vote), but it is a reality.
You are beginning to hear a little of this reality slip from the pundits, however it is still the 800lb gorilla that has yet to be dealt with.
You will also see more women move towards the McCain ticket as the “freaky left chicks” alienate their “sisters” by continuing their disparaging remarks.
Women flat don’t like to be told their “ignorant” because they support someone other than a democrat.
Once you aggrieve them your outta luck. If you don’t believe that then ask your wife (or in the case of the libs here, ask your momys when you crawl out of your her basement for dinner)

NC-voter said...

Yes, PA is definitely a concern. In all likelihood based on what we're seeing in the polls it will end up in McCain's camp due to the "guns and religion" garbage the Republicans will be spewing throughout October. Obama will likely pick up Colorado, Montana, and South Dakota to put him over the top. I wish he could pick up my state and Virginia but the polls are showing that while it's narrowing he hasn't led at all in any real polls and it's a pipe dream to think that will change. Go Hagan! Kick Liddy's butt!

AnotherMike said...

NC_Voter, I know it wasn't you. It was that matt j. h. dufus posing as others. Weak.

PorridgeGun said...

joshua said...

while i do believe if mccain doesnt do well in the first debate he has a pretty good chance to lose the election take a trip back to 2004

all the new's people were saying everyone thought kerry won every debate yet lost the election. the said he won big over pres bush in the first yet pres bush still won, that's the only thing history doesnt seem to work like some are saying they already had a poll out saying debates dont give a big bounce in the polls.



Bush had a double-digit lead going into the first debate. After winning that debate, on foreign policy, Kerry closed the gap overnight to within a couple of points. And it stayed that way until election day.


Bush also had a little help from Jeb, Glenda Hood, Ken Blackwell, and Diebold.

Randall said...

CA_Hawkeye:

http://electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Graphs/pennsylvania.html

Pennsylvania tightened in mid-September last year, when heavy polling started, then widened a bit (but only a bit) toward the end. IIRC, the end vote was only a bit wider than Ohio.

becky sharp said...

I know there won't be a "helicopter-gate" because we control the media. The only stories on Obama will show what an amazing transcendent being of light he is at this critical juncture of our nation's history.
So say we all!

NC_voter said...

No it's not matt JH. The real matt's ID ends in "345", while the latest fake matt is the -214 troll.

Look, he just imitated me again.




DO you guys know how desperate you look praying that the secret racist vote is gonna save the election for JMAC? You guys really have no idea how the Bradley effect actually works, do you?

Roger said...

Ooops. Nevermind re the Wash Post... I didn't realize it was the same thing as the ABC poll, above.

DarĂ­o said...

Nate needs a moderator for this site.

dennis580 said...

Palin was NOT a mistake. Palin was HANDS down the best pick on the board, and the only true game changer for McCain.

People want to like her. If she has a good debate with Biden and proves she is competent McCain will probably win this election.

All she has to do is prove she is competent against Biden, and she will most likely lead McCain to victory

Reality Check said...

the Real Racists are the 96% of the black vote voting for obama, but you would already know that if you didn't live with your parents.

Johnny said...

What was election eve polls in Ohio in 2004?

Subterranean said...

What happens if the GOP ticket loses chiefly because they are bloodbathed in the Midwest Hispanic demo?

That's what I want to know.

DarĂ­o said...

Reality chack, i´m not an Obama supporter, i hate the left but the Hillary supporters who vote for McCain are racists or ignorantes because the Hillary´s plan is more likely Obama´s plan than McCain´s plan.
For this reason are racists (or ignorants).

strangeite said...

That was very flattering to be impersonated. The person who did it must be an intellectual giant. It was exceptionally funny when he was mocking the conservatives before but now that he's moved on to us progressives it's not funny. Or is it?
Getting back to polling looks like Obama is taking New Mexico handily. I wonder how he's polling in old Mexico?

InkStain said...

"What happens if the GOP ticket loses chiefly because they are bloodbathed in the Midwest Hispanic demo?"

We have a universal amnesty bill supported by both sides within two years.

DarĂ­o said...

For Raelity chack the Bradley Effect is not racism, it´s only an "effect".

NC_voter said...

Dennis:

We've heard this "Palin will be a game changer!" RepubliClown BS talking point before.

It was a honeymoon that lasted for approximately 10 days.

Should have picked Romney! Not only would you have a fighting chance at MI, but with the economy being THE issue, he actually would have HELPED the ticket!

Ed Meese said...

Kerry - PA + IA NM NV CO VA = 270EV = President Obama

No PA? No sweat :)

(NH has to stay blue, of course)

NC-voter said...

Fortunately for Obama the real racists are on our side. Boya! We are voting based entirely on skin color in numbers roughly double to white voters voting for McCain. If we weren't His Illustrious Being of Light wouldn't have a chance.

Bay Area Resident said...

Inkstain, the "Bradley effect" was a term coined with the Bradley loss to Deukmejian for CA governor in 1982. Deukmejian was not an inferior candidate, but for whatever reason Bradley was polling better until election day.
I have often wondered about the Bradley effect myself, just because Tom Bradley was a Los Angeles Mayor... theres a secret prejudice right there with CA voters. It could have been more than race. But anyway that was 1982, would never happen today.

DarĂ­o said...

Majority of blacks vote for democrats since 1968. So the blacks Obama supporters are not racists.

InkStain said...

"For Raelity chack the Bradley Effect is not racism, it´s only an "effect"."

An effect that has been debunked, and wouldn't apply to this election anyway (unless McCain is considered inferior to Obama by a wide majority of Americans).

ed meese said...

And before you say it of course I realize that if the bitter clingers put McCain over the top in PA they're probably going to do the same in NH. But let me have my dream. Obama will be the next president of the world!

Strangeite said...

This impersonating gambit is odd.

Does the person stealing mine (and others) handles really think that it is helping their cause, or is it some 14 year old in their mother's basement frustrated because they know they are never getting laid.

Andy said...

The exciting thing about this election is that we could have 20 states as genuine toss-ups come election day.

Reality Check said...

it doesnt matter inkstain if i were you id be sweating on election day because those whites who support mccain but are afraid to tell pollsters because of the PC police will vote for mccain.

but you obama lemmings dont want to admit it, but on election day youll be crying in your mamas basement.

tomthress said...

"What was election eve polls in Ohio in 2004?"

Pretty accurate, on average, although a little bit of a wide spread.

"RCP Average, 10/25-11/1, 48.8-46.7, Bush +2.1 (actual: Bush +2.1)
Zogby, 10/29-11/1, Bush +6
FOX News, 10/30-31, Bush +3
SurveyUSA, 10/29-31, Bush +2
CNN/USAT/Gallup, 10/28-31, Kerry +4

Ohio Poll/UofC, 10/27-31, Bush +0.9
Mason-Dixon, 10/27-29, Bush +2
Rasmussen, 10/25-10/31, Bush +4
Clev. Plain Dealer, 10/26-28,Bush +3"

source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry_sbys.html#oh

dennis580 said...

""I totally agree with PA being the #1 tipping state. Obama fans can ignore PA all they want, but the fact is this state is going to be extremely close, and could very easily flip to McCain."

Never. Led. A. Poll. There.

Not. One.*"

That is completely false. McCain lead in a good amount of polls in PA before May including having a double digit lead in poll.

Matt W said...

I think that the Hispanic voters opinion on migration is much more complicated than it is often portrayed. Remember Cesar Chavez was opposed to immigration and older immigrants or hispanic families who have never migrated but rather got annexed have a diversity of opinions about migration policy. Even here in Mexico a lot of people are not in favor of migration amnesty. It is a mistake to think that this is their one issue and they all want the same thing

InkStain said...

"That is completely false. McCain lead in a good amount of polls in PA before May including having a double digit lead in poll."

It's generally assumed that we're all here talking about the general election. Not the primaries.

Reality Check said...

Screw you all you looser Obamaites living in the basement. Go ahead and vote for the black guy. When the negroes rise up and rape your sister you'll come crying back to me and the other conservitives here like me and Mule Rider. Screw you and ask your mommy now for some dinner...waaah!!!

NC-voter said...

I'm curious which party freed the slaves back in the 1860s. What party was Lincoln a part of? Oh that's right, he was a Republican. Which party in the Deep South fought desegregation for so many years? Oh that's right, it was the Democrats. But I'm part of the new advanced Democrats in North Carolina. Hagan is awesomer than Liddy!

DarĂ­o said...

I said yesterday that the bad of democracy is the ignorant vote.

Ed Meese said...

Someone just stole my ID, too.

I'm the first Ed Meese about the EVs.

I have no idea who the second one is.

couchpotatoxxx12 said...

"the Real Racists are the 96% of the black vote voting for obama, but you would already know that if you didn't live with your parents."

LOL, you have no clue what you are talking about. Democrats always heavily carried the black vote. The sad thing is, if Obama was white, he's probably have 100% chance of winning right now.

Kevin said...

"Don't underestimate AA voters this year, you will be in for a surprise."

lam, yes, AA turnout will increase but you're mising the point. Obama has mainstream appeal: he is leading in the national polls and more important, enough state polls to have a path to 270 with 6 weeks to go. AAs are only 13% of the population, so do the math on how Obama has a great shot at being POTUS. The key will be the huge turnout of the under 35 vote, and youth in particular - of ALL races. Yes, the pundits wait for the youth vote to emerge. This will be the election they turn out in droves. This is the demographic that will offset most of the "bradley effect" the GOP loves to talk about when Obama is in the lead. The beautiful thing is that the pollsters are vastly underestimating this turnout dynamic.

Reality Check said...

the child impersonating me above is typical of obama supporters, laugh it up lemmings.

DarĂ­o said...

Reality check, your racist message don´t help McCain.
I can´t think all McCain supporters are like you.

NC_voter said...

Sorry RepubliClowns. Your misunderstanding of the BradleyAffect isn't going to give you a magical 3 points in all the rust belt states on election day like you trolls have been hoping.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to vote for McCain OR obama that someone wouldn't mind telling a robotic poster. Racism has already manifested itself in the fact that obama is NOT up by 10+

What's more likely: Someone in the rust belt (nearly split) claiming he is supporting Obama when he will vote for McCain, or someone in a community to ashamed to admit to his republican and/or racist friends that he is voting for Obama?

The "reverse bradley affect" is more prominent than anything else now a days, as evidenced by Obama over-performing in NC and VA during the primaries (which if he does again, he will win both)

Joko said...

Reality Check:

Are you a fucking moron? My guess is yes.

Run along now.

InkStain said...

"the child impersonating me above is typical of obama supporters, laugh it up lemmings."

It matters not how smart we are, only that there are more of us and we are almost certain to win.

Inkstain said...

Does anyone else think we should ask Nate to throw out Rasmussen? The guy is clearly on the payroll of the RNC and his results are skewing the figures. Let's replace Ras with the Kos D2000 polls. Or let's just make up our own and say that Obama is +17 in PA and up +22 in Ohio. If our media friends pick it up and run with it we will have accomplished our objective of seeing the creme of the Chicago crop heading up this great nation.

joshua said...

ture, Reality Check. we dont know how many people arnt being truthfull, but that's the exciting thing about this election so many thing's could and will happen, there will be a lot who wont vote for obama only cause his color, but that could be offset if a big enough youth vote come's out.

but that doesnt happen at all so will have to see if this election will be a game changer who knows that's what make's them fun. just a wait and see game.

PorridgeGun said...

joshua is the designated douchebag on this thread.

InkStain said...

Yes! Finally! I got impersonated! I'm cool!

jack black said...

Dear Nate,

I see you have snatched your head out of your ass when talking about today's polls.

8 out of ten polls in VA in September have come out with McCain on top.

You use a poll by ABC and take the worst part of that poll and use it in your analysis. a likely voter poll is the most accurate, as I think u stated many times before( unless it fucks up your numbers), with RAS. 2 point lead, ABC 3 point lead for ODUMBO and the SUSA Poll, along with the other polls that show MCCAIN AHEAD this state should be red.

By the way NATE, you have still been bitch slapped by Sean and have never answered him, yet. which means you are full of shit and he was right.

I think you had better start working in the Bradley effect into your analysis. Subtract 3 to 5 points from every ODUMBO lead.

ed meese said...

The impersonator is a jerk. He even wrote the last message saying that I was him impersonating me. Now I don't even know if I'm me or not. I only know that Obama has my vote and my never-dying affection.

DarĂ­o said...

Some people help to polarize the country.

sporcupine said...

For Ohio and Pennsylvania, it's time to send in the Clintons, big time, maybe full-time. Hillary's already started, and should keep it moving.

As I understand it, Bill Clinton's got a big charity-works conference this week, with McCain as a speaker. Once that's past, I'm hoping he'll earn back all his hero-of-the-party stars in four heroic weeks.

He should do it in those states, retail, in small towns and union venues, speaking well of Obama and well of Democrats and letting the strongest word he uses against McCain be simply "Republican."

Joko said...

LOL @ 'joshua'

love laughing at douchebags!!

Tito said...

Politico has a story about Steve Schmidt's continued attack on the media. And as expected they called him out on his over-the-top exaggerations. Maybe I'm missing something here, but if this is a strategy, it's a stupid strategy. Love them or hate them, if you attack the media they will turn on you. I don't understand why the McCain camp keeps going down this road, especially in the week leading up to the debate.

I remember hearing reporters talk about 2000 and how traveling with Gore was boring while traveling with Bush was fun, and that helped shape media opinion. The McCain traveling press has been constantly complaining that McCain ignores them and collectively they feel like it's a waste of time to even be on the trail with him. I don't see where going hostile helps any of this at all.

Matt W said...

If you are gonna steal IDs at least spell, capitalize, and hyphenate them correctly

Reality Check said...

if you libs were really serious about winnning this election hillary would be your nominee or at least vp. too bad even bill said today she didnt want it, probably because they know obama will lose in the end, and his lemming followers will go right off a cliff. its the 800 lb. gorilla no one wants to talk about in the room.

Johnny said...

I do wonder if people even know what the Bradley Affect is.

It's people saying they will vote for the black guy, and then the don't.

Not happening in 2008. If you think that way, you were a republican long ago. The Dem party has lost all of its cultural populist roots. Palin was meant for those people to give them an out to not stay home.

We'll see, but it's Obama's to lose.