Another fairly strong polling day for John McCain:
The University of Cincinnati's highly-rated Ohio Poll has John McCain leading by 4 points in the Buckeye State. There are no particular demographic quirks in these results; Barack Obama is simply a little behind where he needs to be across the board. The U. of C. (no, not the real U. of C.) had surveyed Ohio once before in February, at that point showing Obama with a 1-point lead, but that was a poll of registered rather than likely voters so the results are not directly comparable.
Rasmussen, meanwhile, shows John McCain closing to within 2 points in Washington, a state in which Obama has generally held large, safe-looking leads. This seems to confirm SurveyUSA's finding from earlier in the week, which showed Obama's lead diminishing to 4 points. The Pac Northwest has a decently-sized evangelical population that may be taking well to Sarah Palin. Still, our model can't imagine Obama losing Washington except in a catastrophic landslide. Oregon, on the other hand, might merit watching. (Edit: Although it looks like there's an Oregon poll out that shows Obama up by 7; it came in too late for our early deadline today).
North Carolina's results have been all over the board, but a new Research 2000 survey for Daily Kos would tend to confirm the pessimistic assessment of Obama's position offered up by SurveyUSA, showing Obama down by 17 points. Whether or McCain's lead in North Carolina is in the double digits or the single digits, it is pretty far removed from being a tipping point state.
Finally, in Missouri, Rasmussen has McCain ahead by 5. This is actually not a terrible result for Obama, as Rasmussen's August poll of Missouri had shown him down 7. Although Obama is clearly losing Missouri, it has moved closer to his national averages as those numbers have regressed, and so retains some currency as a potential swing state.
9.12.2008
Today's Polls, 9/12
by Nate Silver @ 2:09 PM...see also missouri, north carolina, ohio, today's polls, washington
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320 comments
Bryen,
You just described stupidity of voters.
Actually, the absurdly implausible Gallup Congressional poll just serves to confirm that they're putting out crappy numbers.
It's like that Zogby poll from mid-August showing a 5 point McCain lead. The half dozen polls before that showed a single-digit Obama lead. The half-dozen polls after that showed a single-digit Obama lead.
Again, Greg, if you were making a serious effort and not just spinning like a top, you wouldn't look at individual polls, but at aggregates.
I saw the following posted on digg, and I thought it was so powerful that I wanted to share it with all of you:
I've said it before and I'll say it again there are NO republicans in the republican party and a vote or support for McCain/Palin is tantamount to accepting everything over the last 8 years. In my mind if you support this party that means you have to OWN everything that goes along with it you don't get to pick and choose if you whole heartedly support the GOP then you OWN all of it's failings too and that diggers is the cold hard reality of it all and I'm sorry to say it but it makes you a hypocrite of the highest magnitude.
Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Katrina, FISA, the Patriot Act, Stevens, DeLay, Abramoff, Enron, Worldcomm, 9-11, Gonzalez, Rove, CEO bail outs, Plamegate, loss of Habeus Corpus, Shredding of the Constitution, $4 gas, Voter caging in Ohio and Florida, racism against illegal immigrants, LGBT hate crimes, "Mission Accomplished", 1 Million+ Iraqi civilian causalities, 1 Million+ Casualties and refugees in Sudan/Darfur, 10,000 fold increase in heroin production, the worst "Dollar" in American history, 6.1% unemployment (conservative), tent cities, 40 Million+ uninsured, Walter Reed, Drill our way out, from the most respected to the most hated citizens on Earth, Coalition of the Billing, multi-billion dollar profits for Big Oil, mulit-billion dollar contracts for Halliburton, the most secretive gvt in modern history, commuting of sentences for convicted traitors, Supreme court standing by big business, Gulf War Syndrome vets class action lawsuit quashed, Abstinence Only education, public schools failing our children, bridges collapsing in Minnesota, our highway and infrastructure in complete disarray, the fight for Net Neutrality, 8,000 dead Americans, ........
OWN IT GOP Supporters. OWN IT. Lock, Stock and Barrel.
When you post up your support of McCain/Palin then you by default agree with and standby the short list noted above. NO you don't get to pick and choose, this is YOUR party, OWN IT. Yes a vote for McCain/Palin IS a full throated endorsement of the Bush Administration. PERIOD. End of discussion. The Republican party didn't change and to think that it did is a level of naivety that should only be displayed by toddlers. Once you decide to actually OWN your party and all of it's failings
Bryen: You make good points. Thanks.
Maybe it's not stupidity, it's just ignorance. But whatever it is, it's shameful that people take their responsibilities as citizens so lightly.
Anyway, I've been saying for some time that the stuff about Obama "not going after the VP" is bullshit. Maybe not him personally, but they need to knock down the phony myth about this phony candidate. She's doing a fairly good job herself, but they need to 'assist'.
Interesting post on Andrew Sullivan's blog:
Like many Obama supporters, I’ve been in a poll-induced funk recently. So I went to the Obama HQ in downtown Orlando looking for a t-shirt, a bumper sticker, something, anything, to make myself not feel so damn worried. Here’s what I found:
1. A brisk campaign operation staffed mostly by 25-35 year olds, all at computers, all analyzing data on GOTV operations.
2. After speaking with my precinct captain who was present, she told me that since August 1, the downtown HQ has registered 80,000 new voters. Let that number sink in. In the last 40 days or so, they’ve registered an average of 2,000 voters per day.
I know they probably won’t keep up that pace, but even half that is good.
more...
Bryan 193 is exactly right. It's not about issues. The peole left to decide don't give a hoot about issues. Its culture, and who they like. McCain is making sure they don't like Obama, Obama, well he's talking. but its not getting through the McCain fog. Obama can take his high minded politics straight back to the classroom because he's gonna be the National joke in 6 weeks when he loses this election.
Dems should panic but not give up.
Donate. Volunteer. Make sure everyone under 30 votes this year.
It's time to take to the streets.
Can we all agree on a few things please.
1- The polls are all over the place. (Even if they are showing a small McCain lead, they are headed in different directions and jumping all over the place- Gallup goes up when Ras goes down? Some polls show narrow Obama leads. Even the state polls don't seem to show much of a logical pattern.)
2- Sarah Palin has shaken this thing up. Obama has been put off his game, McCain reenergised.
3- Who knows where this thing is going anytome soon? I haven't got a clue.
BO could Swiftboat McCain, where it hurts most: crashed five planes, bottom 1% of his class at West Point, parading an admiral's star while he couldn't get one. Swiftboat, except these are facts.
Combine "reckless" (cf Palin's must not blink) and "privileged/spoilt" to counter the "Maverick" narrative. When you're born with a silver spoon you can afford to gamble and screw up, your daddy will help you out. But we Americans can't afford McCain's gambles. Highlight obvious parallels with previous rich-boy. How many boys got to fly another plane after the first four? (obviously fly plane > govern is part of McCain's subconscious appeal).
Check this out, Joe!
State averages in the rust belt!
PA: Obama +2.3 (way down!)
OH: McCain + 2.2
MI: McCain + Obama +2
With the hidden Bradley Effect, Obama is in BIG TROUBLE in the rust belt. The Democrats are worried!
The Congressional Poll: over at Pollingreport.com, every generic Congressional poll done in September shows Democrats with a 3-9 point lead, even Fox - except for the one Gallup poll. This includes several polls that were done after Gallup.
Greggie reads the ticker at the bottom of the Fox screen and tells us every time a poll comes out that he likes.
Sounds to me like what someone who's panicking would do, eh?
If I hear Bradley Effect one more time...
BRADLEY EFFECT VOTERS WOULD VOTE MCCAIN ANYWAYS
DH, with respect to McCain's class rank, c.f. NRO article here: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTM3ZmE0YTE1MTVmZjQwZjQ3ZmY0NzQ1MDk0YzRjYWU= The bottom of the class has produced many brave warriors.
I think both Obama and Palin are transcendent political figures.
With Obama we have seen that much of his post-partisan, no more red or blue America patina, has worn off and he has been shown to be a rather ordinary, left wing politican with an excellent command of oratory, but lacking substance. His race was his ticket to prominence.
With Palin it is her femininity. But it also her ordinary middle class background and the breathtaking possibility that we are about to take someone so like ourselves and thrust them into the very seat of power.
To many that is heady stuff. And it is very appealing.
Palin's power comes from her gender, but alos from her power to advocate for the regular Joes and Janes out there.
This is no Gerry Ferraro and she will not fade or shrink from her task.
Scott--
Democrat strategist Pat Cadell said on Fox that there's a lot of hidden racism among Democrat union members in MI, OH, and PA, and they would have voted for Hillary but won't vote for Obama even if they won't admit it to a pollster.
Sad, but true!
Now this is more like it:
Today on "The View," John McCain defended his campaign's latest ad campaign, which has been debunked repeatedly as both false and sleazy. In running the sleaziest campaign since South Carolina in 2000 and standing by completely debunked lies on national television, it's clear that John McCain would rather lose his integrity than lose an election.
Thank you for posting those numbers showing Obama leading in all of the rust belt states he has to win, the week after the Republican convention ended. I'll now run around in circles and panic at my candidate's ability to hold his lead during the least favorable period on the election calendar.
scott-
The only "Bradley Effect" that worries me is with the undecideds. Are the undecideds not going to break 50/50 due to racism, and break, lets say, 75/25 instead.
byren193 nailed it: the undecideds always, always break for personality. Why the Democrats fail to realize this is beyond me; election after election they talk about issues, they go to their websites and cheer over who won this or that debate point. People don't give a damn about the debates, they care about who they like. It's time for the Democratic party to stop hiding from the truth, and start running a campaign based on a coherent narrative, on personality. And above all, on destroying your opponent. That is the ugly, ugly truth, and unless Obama wises up to it, he will lose.
Matt J.H....
I would certainly hate to be stranded in the wilderness with you after a plane crash.
You're the type who runs around screaming, "There's WOLVES out there! It's so COLD! We don't have enough FOOD! I'm SCARED! We're DOOMED! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!"
Meanwhile the rest of the group are quietly rolling up their sleeves, assessing the situation and making plans, doing what needs to be done.
You need to be gagged and tied to a tree well away from camp for the duration. And if the wolves should nibble on you a bit while you're out there, I don't think anybody would really care.
"BO could Swiftboat McCain, where it hurts most: crashed five planes, bottom 1% of his class at West Point, parading an admiral's star while he couldn't get one. Swiftboat, except these are facts.
Combine "reckless" (cf Palin's must not blink) and "privileged/spoilt" to counter the "Maverick" narrative. When you're born with a silver spoon you can afford to gamble and screw up, your daddy will help you out. But we Americans can't afford McCain's gambles."
I think they are saving this for October, if they need it. Someone will do it, if not him, because he is SO begging for it with all the bullshit patriotism and honor stuff, combined with his own sleazeball campaign.
charles-
I sure hope you are right. Wasn't there some ex-general Obama used earlier that said getting shot down was not heroism or something. Hmmmmmm....perfect water carrier.
Hurricane is pushing Obama's newfound attacks off the screen. Also, being aggressive on a day where a natural disaster looms is risky. Unfortunate timing for Obama.
Something to consider about the two campaigns. Obama's main guy has never won a national GE campaign; McCain's guy has, or at least has been pretty closely involved in one. It's starting to look like the NBA playoffs with teams evenly matched on talent. Generally, the team with more playoff experience tends to win. It looks like the Obama campaign needs to bring in one of the old Clinton hands, but I don't get the feeling that they want to be beholden like that.
byren193 nailed it: the undecideds always, always break for personality.
Yet another bonus for Obama. The guy who says hi to his adorable kids on stage at the convention vs. the grouchy old man yelling at the cloud.
Palin's got an appealing personality. Too bad for the Republicans that she's just the running mate.
@ DarienCrow - Sorry, but Greg tried to defend his argument that McCain will win 40 states by the idea that Connecticut is in play for McCain to win it. His proof was Joe Lieberman. Go reread the thread. Then think to yourself what you would say if an Obama partisan said "Georgia is in play for Obama." Think about it.
@ Matt JH - You're right. It's not about issues. It never is. If it were, people would vote their interest, and there's a mountain of evidence that they don't. But it's not about who wins the media debate, either. If it were, someone would be tracking this every day for the last five Presidential elections. If you know of someone doing this, by all means, send us the link.
Charles... whining about the ads doesn't help Obama win.
When Obama lied about McCain wanting 100 years of war in Iraq I knew it was going to be a dirty election.
McCain has a liftime of knowing how to win... wars and elections.
Obama is an amatuer and a loser
What I really want someone to ask Palin is:
"If you were a twee, what twee would you be?"
Greg, honey, be careful with those exclamation points.
You could put an eye out with one of those things.
"The "Reverse Nader Effect" makes little intuitive sense to me. Anyone here want to explain this phenomenon? it can't be Barr hurting McCain since he is only polling in at 1.5% on Pollster."
I bet that there are many PUMA's out there who hate Obama but have trouble bringing themselves to vote for McCain. Nader is probably a better protest vote in that case.
"Charles... whining about the ads doesn't help Obama win."
Showing that McCain is a liar and a fraud will help him win.
His popularity is based on a myth. So is Palin's. They need to dispell those myths. NOW.
Mike-
I didn't say McCain WOULD win 40 states, I said it is way more possible that he would win 40 states rather than Obama, and that Obama can only absolutely 100% count on about 10-12 states. The rest COULD be taken by McCain in a landslide, which we are on track to be on the verge of by the first week of October. =)
I do not think Diageo/Hotline is a three day tracker. They are releasing their daily amounts I believe. Check out their description. It sounds like each day is a one day poll they way I read it. Or am I wrong on that?
If you want to swift-boat McCain, make the ad a 2008 version of the Daisy ad, showing McCain advocating endless war with all countries that oppose us. His whole "Country First", opposed to people first, freaks me out sometimes.
"Maybe it's not stupidity, it's just ignorance. But whatever it is, it's shameful that people take their responsibilities as citizens so lightly."
Perhaps, but it's also shameful that the democrats don't know how to properly campaign reach these voters. Obama's task in 55 days is to make these voters not like McCain. It can be done.
btw- McCain going on The View and tossing Roe v. Wade in the garbage can was a bad idea. First rule of politics - know your audience.
McCain has a liftime of knowing how to win... wars and elections.
You mean like Vietnam and the 2000 primary?
Anyone here watch "Two and a Half Men"?
Go watch the part of the interview last night where Gibson asks here about the Bush Doctrine. When she replies, "In what respect, Charlie?", it could SO be Rose talking to Charlie on 2.5 men, couldn't it? LOL.
Greg is right: the Rust Belt will be a wasteland for Obama. Lots of hidden and not so hidden animosity to him there. So-called undecideds will break against him strongly just like they did when he ran against Mrs. Clinton.
The Obama-Biden ticket has very limited appeal. Where do you think Obama is going to get the votes he needs to expand the coalitions he had in OH and PA to beat McCain? There is little upside left in those states.
McCain is bringing a new populist message on the economy which is stressing low taxes. Obama really has not made his argument.
He likes to say he cares about "people like you", but Palin owns that demographic now, I am afraid.
DH,
That's not swiftboating. Swiftboating would be if a large number of POWs who were in captivity with McCain said his story was a bunch of BS.
Palin's interview was good, wasn't it? I mean, she said America might have to go to war with Russia, but she said so in the context of Russia invading a NATO country. In that circumstance, all of NATO would be compelled to go to war with Russia. That's how mutual defense treaties work, and that's fundamentally what NATO is.
"That's not swiftboating. Swiftboating would be if a large number of POWs who were in captivity with McCain said his story was a bunch of BS."
A few will try that too, but I don't think it will stick.
If I hear Bradley Effect one more time...
BRADLEY EFFECT VOTERS WOULD VOTE MCCAIN ANYWAYS
More importantly, they would tell pollsters they're voting for McCain because that Obama guy is just too green.
But you're shouting into a hurricane, Scott. :-P
Like my dear old daddy said yesterday, the republicans are running on unfounded optimism right now and the dems on unfounded pessimism. He said the debates will settle the election once and for all..........
I actually regret that Palin decided to give an interview to Hannity 2nd.
I more likely would have done Chris Wallace IF I decided on FOX. But my real 2nd choice would have been Anderson Cooper on CNN or Gwen Ifel on PBS. They have a reputation for integrity.
My 3rd Interview would be Katie Couric or Tom Brokow on Meet The Press, or Bob Schieffer.
The final place I would go would be MSNBC --- I am OK with Olberman because he is a loose cannon, and she can make him look like a foolish bully.
All of this HELPS McCain . If we are talking about Palin Interviews in 4-5 weeks ----
Palin's interview was good, wasn't it?
The takeaway today is her freezing on the Bush Doctrine question.
Honeymoon's over. The press is turning on both of them: McCain for lying, Palin for corruption and cluelessness, and both of them for whining above and beyond the call of duty.
Seriously, Republicans, there were people openly talking about how they wished the ticket was reversed, and you think this was a good thing? Ask Vice President Bensen about that.
Hary Reid just got busted on tape referring to "President McCain"
Oops. Knocking Obama off message.
Yes Joe...
He knows how Viet Nam was lost and he knows how GWB won the 2000 primary.
Hillary knows that it was the DNC's method of proportional delegate distribution that made her lose. Watch carefully as they will now change these rules.
Obama exploited these bad rules and made his own party look foolish. Democrats are stupid for trying to be so fair. Maybe just stupid all together which would be my guess.
The press NEVER gave Palin a honeymoon. What planet are you on Joe?
They've been hammering her and attacking her and smearing her ever since Day One.
Charles,
That's why whatever Obama does in response couldn't be called swiftboating. It would just be typical negative campaigning that we see every cycle. Swiftboating is a little different.
Flipping it around, swiftboating Obama would be if a bunch of his colleagues from his community organizer days said he was FOS.
Whadda we do about the bitch?
@Matthew= Your technical question comes up over and over again. The answer is simple: NO. A 500 person poll is equally precise for a state with 200,000 voters or a state with 2,000,000. Please have a look at any elementary statistics introduction.
"I actually regret that Palin decided to give an interview to Hannity 2nd.
I more likely would have done Chris Wallace IF I decided on FOX. But my real 2nd choice would have been Anderson Cooper on CNN or Gwen Ifel on PBS. They have a reputation for integrity."
Exactly. Hannity is a pundit, not a journalist and highly partisan hack. Everybody knows it, and this will be viewed as a slap in the face to voters who may like Palin, but have reservations regarding her preparedness. Another misstep by the McCain campaign to go along with today's showing on The View.
Disasterous appearance on the View...check out the Whoopi comments. Talk about going into hostile ground.
Now I am starting to feel a bit better.
They need to call out these lying fucks each and every time they do this. Every time. Loudly. Make sure people know about it.
Knock down the lie about McCain being "honorable". He isn't.
Darien Crow,
The bad rules that have been around for decades and the orginal committee that has 12 Clinton supporters in October that sanctined Fla and MI. Facts are impossible for your ilk to state, they are like kryptonite to superman.
"I actually regret that Palin decided to give an interview to Hannity 2nd.
I more likely would have done Chris Wallace IF I decided on FOX. But my real 2nd choice would have been Anderson Cooper on CNN or Gwen Ifel on PBS. They have a reputation for integrity."
She really needs to not screw up with Hannity. There's a flipside to low expectations. If you fail to meet them, the blowback is mulitplied.
Charles,
Isn't that a little hard to do when Biden's complimenting McCain on a daily basis??
Obama and the campaign on the ground....
Maybe Sean and Nate can tell us if they are just over-confident or if there is something really revolutionary happening, something so fast that it escapes pollsters.
Even if I don´t believe all the hype I am slightly optimistic about the 2 recent Missouri polls. This 4-5% difference is exactly what the campaign could make up with their ground efforts.
Even in the best stages of the Obama campaign I thought that it´s going to be very close. The reason?
The 30% approval rating for President Bush. These people are the core of the current Republican Party. Remember that the Republican turnout was quite impressive and Kerry´s turnout was not THAT bad either.
Now, take a look at the turnout:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_presidential_election
1996 was a record low in turnout, probably because of the bad campaign run by Bob Dole. 2000 was only a little better. 2004 however, saw an astonishing GOTV effort by the republican party and a 5% boost in overall turnout to 56.69% overall. Thanks to the continuing polarization of the country we can expect a turnout of at least 60%.
So 60% of the country will be voting, and 30% of the country agree with the policies of President Bush. And that means:
If the Republicans can mobilize their hard-core support they will get 50% of the vote just like that!
That´s where Obama´s GOTV comes into play. The more previously uninvolved people they can get registered, and the higher the actual turnout will be, the less important are the Bush supporters going to be (and we can assume that newly registered voters will overwhelmingly favor Obama - if not they´d probably just slam the door when the Obama activists come knocking for the 3rd time).
I have help for a long time that John McCain is losing this election and I still believe it. I think that he was losing by big numbers 2-3 weeks ago and now he is losing by less. We have the polls, Obama's ground game and all the fundamentals are wrong for McCain.
Unpopular War, Republican Corruption, Economy in trouble, housing crisis. energy crisis, Unpopular President , unpopular Republican brand. How much do you need?
I can not fathom why the Obama Campaign is spending so much time focusing on the VP, allowing her to consume all the oxygen.
If he can even get back to Issues, then he will rebound.
I watched the interview in real time on AMC News last night before the pundits had a chance to comment. I thought Palin did a great job sounding composed and knowledgeable on matters of foreign affairs and betrayed no level of discomfort.
Her mettle was clearly tested by the dubious, “schoolmarmish” tone take by the normally affable Charlie Gibson who seemed to be trying to prosecute Palin and never once seemed willing to make his subject more forthcoming or comfortable. Palin did not seem rattled in the least and I gave her high marks for her confident, well-expressed answers.
The whole “Bush Doctrine” snark was so far off target. She did not try and BS her way through it; instead she questioned her questioner to get to what he was after and when he refused to give her help, she plowed on giving a good answer about Bush’s world view. When Gibson finally offered clarification – for the viewer as much as Governor Palin – she again answered well, without hesitation in “full paragraph mode”. Even David Gergen on CNN was forced to admit that no one much talks about the “Bush Doctrine” any more and she should be forgiven for not knowing what snarky Charlie Gibson was up to.
He tried again with the “God and War” question which I thought showed Palin at her best: lyrical and historical and more than up to the task of being interviewed by the lions (jackals?) of the media!
The whole attempt at being cold and unfriendly by Gibson and his attempt at a “gotcha” or two coupled with Palin’s unflappability and smart answers made the interview a home run for me. And for her.
Disasterous appearance on the View...check out the Whoopi comments. Talk about going into hostile ground.
Yep...that scowl he made when Joy called him on his lies will linger in people's minds long after they forget the words.
It was akin to getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
People hate liberal Hollywood elites like Whoopi Goldberg.
Alex S.,
Did you see the internals on that Fox poll which asked newly registered voters (since 2006) who they were supporting?? It was Obama 47-44. Now it's only one poll (I haven't seen the question asked anywhere else) and there are obviously sample size issues, but that can't be good news for the Obama campaign.
John Peterson says "It looks like the RepugniCONS are up to their dirty, divisive hate-smears again."
Please elaborate.
It's Obvious that the Gibson interview is very tough ground.
I'm sure the Hannity interview in happening to have some fun and let people get to know her better.
Sorry you libs feel... what was it?... slapped in the face?
I can not fathom why the Obama Campaign is spending so much time focusing on the VP, allowing her to consume all the oxygen.
He's not anymore...he escalated his campaign today, but just John. Plus, today began the 527s. I suspect he'll ignore Sarah from here on.
What kind of ratings does "The View" get?
Wait till Palin does the The View.
She will own those Bitches!
The View under Goldberg is averaging 3.5 million total viewers, a 7% increase from 3.3 million under O'Donnell last season.
Src: wikipedia
Wes Clark was the water carrier for that.
DanP said...
So, if we shouldn't panic now, when is the appropriate time to panic, friends?
After the first two debates.
Obama's bounce needed to have him winning by a comfortable margin. He did that. McCain's bounce needed to have him winning by a comfortable margin, and he did that too.
Now comes the period of high "information", when each politician locks in their and their opponent's public views. While the campaign is often won and lost at this time (and you can often tell), surveys are worthless. Nobody cares about what people think now, both sides are working on stuff that will work in two months.
For example, Bush came out of the conventions with a huge lead. Over the next couple of weeks, the lead dwindled to 0, and actually Kerry took the lead for a short time. But it didn't matter. The poisonous stuff being dripped on Kerry hurt Bush in the short term, but killed Kerry in the long term.
Right now, all the surveys show is what we already knew- it's a close race. You can panic all you want, but the kiddie stuff is over. The races will be won or lost in the next 3 weeks, and this is work that gets handled by professionals. The moronic advice being offered, whether here or by pundits, is worthless. You'll just have to trust your side's doing the right thing. You likely won't even know until it's over.
I liken it to a video combat game. The video game might teach you how to position people to have crossfires, what the effective range of a weapon is, how to keep communication and supply chains open, and so forth. Heck, it might even teach you how to do it better than a grunt that has no interest in the T-stuff.
But when the shots start flying, if you think playing a video game made you a better soldier than the grunt, you're fooling yourself badly. Sit back, relax, and let the soldier do his job, cause believe you me, yelling at him that his doing a bad job because of some video game you played isn't going to win you any friends.
The serious shooting started on Monday, folks. Time to stop second-guessing your candidate. Ain't gonna do any good.
Wait till Palin does the The View.
I won't hold my breath.
She will own those Bitches!
Only people with no class refer to women as "Bitches".
Why are Americans so concern on stats when the "Federal" reserve, (not the government but a private corporation who print money not backed by anything and who can lessen the amount of money in circulation)determine the fate of the US economy. Individuals from the families of JP Morgan, Rockerfellas, Bushes, etc., to included the "Ten Men" of "Bankster" who created the federal reserve decides who will be the next president by the amount of money raised during the campaign as a percentage of the money raised is then paid to the Banksters. The presidency is decided on who will raise the most money to pay their way into the presidency. These private corporation under the idealogy of the Illuminati own and run the central bank (federal reserve) which Americans pay their taxes to as they are free from regulations, laws or governing bodies other than their own. The world of peace or war is decided by profit and power and enslavement to these Banksters. Are we all "zombies". WAKE UP!!
3.3 MM viewers? Thats more than I thought. 1% of the population and a greater percentage of the voting population.
@bryen193
>>>>>It does not mean that they are stupid or idiots. They just don't care about political issues - either way. They vote for who they LIKE. The the presidential campaign comes down to a human interest story and the Republicans are still miles ahead of the Democrats in running this type of campaign.<<<<<<<
Wow -- you are absolutely correct! @filistro said something similar a little while back. I do not think you are amazed that I have seen numerous posts saying " Voters are stupid, morons, rednecks, etc" from democrats on a ratio of 100s of instances to 1 Republican.
The thought does not cross my mind and I do not want to be part of any party that believes it. I do not see how democrats can ever win national elections. You seem to despise the voting public.
Why are Americans so concern on stats when the "Federal" reserve, (not the government but a private corporation who print money not backed by anything and who can lessen the amount of money in circulation)determine the fate of the US economy....
Sound the Paultard siren on the 1MC!!
AWOOOGA! AWOOOGA!
Set Standard Condition Gold, Repeat: Set Standard Condition Gold. This is not a drill.
Good points MatthewH
Eric said...
What kind of volume are we seeing on IEM? I just checked it out, but can't figure that out. I notice the same thing on Intrade, low volume and liquidity, makes it very imperfect.
it is pretty small too. It is an academic exercise actually. But real money. Maybe total 80-90.000 $1 contracts. But there is a $500 limit. Intrade does not have a limit (I think) and it is $100 contracts.
@Mason said...
3.3 MM viewers? Thats more than I thought. 1% of the population and a greater percentage of the voting population.
Real question is: With Barbara Walters, Whoopi, and a heavily liberal group of women, how many of the 3.3 million viewers are independent, or moderates that would be attracted to McCain or Palin. This interview , similar to many others that McCain has given where he is reaching out to those who dislike him the most.
It is an indication of his maverick status and deep belief that he wants to be the President of ALL Americans. It would be like Obama going to an NRA meeting.
@ millco88:
I don´t think this poll was accurate at all, for the simple reason that the Obama campaign is not that idealistic to register McCain-voters along the way. And Democrats have beaten Republicans in registration efforts by 10:1 or even more. So if the FOX poll was accurate it would mean that around 40% of the people registered by the Obama campaign are McCain voters - that´s not just accurate, that must be totally wrong.
In national polls, Obama has so far peaked at 51% (after his convention). McCain has so far peaked at 48% (right now). I think this might be significant. Obama has already shown that 51% of the American public has considered voting for him. McCain has shown that 48% of the American public has considered voting for him. McCain has been successful with attacks and distractions at bring Obama back down to 46-48%, but the potential is there for Obama to win. McCain, as of now, hasn’t shown that. I imagine it being easier for Obama to pull the people who have very recently said they’d vote for him back than it is for McCain to find another 2-3% of voters who has have yet have never said they’d vote for him.
I wonder how long it will take for the Palin interviews to affect the polls, if they do at all (I read a piece last night that estimated it would have a neutral affect).
Alex S.,
Nor do I think the Obama campaign is that idealistic; I just wonder how "real" some of those registration numbers that are bandied about actually are. But like I said, it's one poll, although I do wish we could see that question asked in other places.
It would give a good indication of whether this ground game effect that the Obama campaign is obviously counting on is sound strategy or not. If the margin among newly registered is anything less than 20-30 points, I think most of the assumptions regarding the ground game might be off.
McCain's convention bounce will disappear soon.
New Mexico has moved toward McCain, as has Colorado. I already concluded the South and Ohio were lost. Obama MUST WIN New Mexico, New Hampshire and Colorado to win the election.
Right now there is NO SIGN OF LIFE for Obama in NM. No signs. Almost no bumper stickers. Virtually no events in Albuquerque.
I stand by my predication. Absent a major shift (like a complete blowout in the debates-which is unlikely as they are pre-scripted) McCain with 273-279 EVs. At this rate, he may also win Oregon, which would make his margin larger.
Right now, Obama is not outperforming McCain on any level in this campaign. And these numbers do not indicate a "bounce" any longer-we're getting far enough out to see the writing on the wall, here.
Oh-and Mike-you're right. But I lost faith in the general electorate when it re-elected George Bush the II in 2004. Given what we knew even then, that decision showed most Americans do not bother to study the facts before making a decision, and we don't teach them to do this. After all, how much did you learn about "responsible voting" in school?
what make's you people so certin that mccain's bouce will go away like tomorrow?
you people have been saying this ever since the start of the rnc, will you people ever shut up? i mean come on it get's old.......
everyone knew it was going to come just wernt sure how big it was or how long it'll last and it's bigger then everyone seemed two thing for the most part and has lasted longer then you people seemed to want people to think it would..... so shut up about it going away...it'll go away when it's suppose to.
Gallup Daily Tracking today has McCain up by 3, but yesterday it was 4, and Tuesday and Wednesday it was +5. So has McCain peaked, at least for awhile?
politicalcynic--a few things,
Nate clearly said that convention bounces last several weeks. It may not be the case, and I'm not going to say it's definitely a bounce, but you can't say with any certainty that it's definitely NOT a bounce. It's only been a week. Nate's numbers predicted a 2-point bounce benefit to McCain at this point.
Seriously, everyone calling the race is over is crazy. The sim today indicates a 48% win percentage. I know those of us on the Dem side want it at 100, but it's not going to happen. And the McCainites getting psyched over their 52%....it's not that exciting.
Really, the race is a tie right now. The only Kerry state in which McCain has had the lead in A SINGLE POLL post-convention is Michigan, and he's only 1 for 5. Several of these states are in doubt, but at the absolute peak of McCain's bounce he couldn't take a single one of them. What makes you think he's going to do it as his bounce fades? In addition, Iowa is pretty much firmly Democrat (though why no polls since the convention?) and Ohio, Florida, Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado are all most certainly within reach, he's definitely leading in Colorado (with O up in every post-conv. poll, how has Colorado moved towards McCain?) and he only needs one other state.
Really, it's a dead heat.
It's human nature. If a poll or the stock market or the weather jumps 2% every day for three days, you convince yourself it'll keep jumping.
It's a form of gambler's fallacy.
inkstain--I understand that. I hope no one on this board plays or plans to play the stock market, because you would all lose a lot of money. It's astounding.
If McCain's lead was still growing, I'd probably be concerned too. But it isn't, and whining about McCain having all the momentum and Obama being "off his stride" is just feeding into the narrative that the McCain camp is clearly encouraging and fueling. 99% of the public (including me before I found this website) doesn't understand the convention bounce theory, so if you're in the 1% that does don't ignore it when things look bad!
Will people get tired of hearing about Sarah Palin?
Rather than her loose her glitter and glam, as she'll be TMZ mats for a while, people will get burned out with her. Like, when you get tired of seeing Brad/Angelina/twins, on the cover of each and every magazine. I think that is to come. But I think right now, we are still experiencing McCain's bounce. If Obama is as good a campaigner as people here post he is,then we are soon to see some changes.
And, things might change when we get New York, and Cali.
the it prof -
But other polls show him sustaining a lead, Rasmussen showed tremendous momentum for McCain.
The Hotline poll showed a big downswing for McCain too, but with a radically smaller sample among RV's, not LV's.
My guess is that McCain is holding up quite well among LV's, but RV's are regressing back to the Obama side slightly.
LV polls are more indicative of the final result at this stage, and in the final weeks, just about every poll will be an LV poll.
We are now a week past the RNC convention, and it is not apparent that McCain's advantage is slipping.
It is not growing, but Obama is not gaining any noticeable ground.
"Why is McCain surging ahead in the polls, Joe?
It's a little late to still say it's a "convention bounce". Looking like a permanent Palin Effect instead! =)
LOL!"
Surging in the polls? You should be lol'ing at yourself. If you had half a brain cell you'd realize he's receeding more every day. It'll be back to a tie again in a week.
I just saw Palin's teasers, and again it looks like a fairly strong performance.
She got the "Bridge to Nowhere" question and she did fine with it.
If the only criticism is that she changed her mind, well that is not going to hurt her.
I am mystified as to why the left thinks this "supported it before opposing it" is a workable attack.
When you change your mind to make the right decision, that is not a negative.
John Kerry changed his mind to oppose funding the troops. That is a negative.
Biden and Obama voted for the bridge, multiple times. She could have spent the money on the bridge. She simply chose to spend it elsewhere.
The Dems are walking down a blind alley on this one when everybody learns that Biden and Obama favored that bridge over aid to Katrina victims.
She also made some comments that will only serve to embarrass Obama and further enrage Hillary supporters when she says that Obama made a mistake in not choosing Hillary.
Looks like Palin and Biden agree.
If McCain's performance on "The View" is any indication, Obama has a lot to worry about in the debates.
It was 4 on 1 during that show and McCain just knocked it out of the park.
Every line of attack was batted down pretty summarily.
I think he scored points because he locked horns with Barbara Walters and came away looking fine.
This is no sleepy old man. Obama better bring his A game to the party.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, will the baseball metaphors for every single appearance by either campaign please end?
Convention bounces do not last several weeks.
That kind of sustained momentum is due to other things.
Obama was ahead by 2-3 points going into his VP pick and convention, surged to nearly a 7-8 point lead, and is now behind by roughly 2-3 points.
Obama got 6 points, and McCain got 11 points for a net gain of 5 points for McCain.
McCain's lead was probably 4 points at the peak, but we have seen some stability for several days now.
It is a 1-2 point spread among RV's and a 3-4 point spread among LV's.
It is hard to imagine that as time goes on the electorate will swing strongly to Obama without a major, game-changing event. There's a reason Republicans finish strong historically, and there's no reason to think this year will be different. Obama should be up 10 points right now in the polls to pull this out. He will need to absolutely trounce McCain in the debates to regain the momentum. The Obama team is crazy to be focusing so much energy on Sarah Palin.
Nate: Let's leave Ohio out of this for a moment. If Obama wins Ohio he takes the election. But Ohio is hard, the most likely of any state to suffer from a Shy Torry effect. Assume he doesn't.
It looks increasingly to me like the race is coming down to NM and CO. We need more polling in NM. I don't understand how your model has Obama losing CO and winning NM. Obama needs to win both of those states to win the election. Recent polls look promising in CO, unnerving in NM. Lose either one and in my opinion he loses (if he loses CO or NM he'll certainly lose Ohio).
Talk about smart to hold the convention in Denver. That could turn out to be Obama's saving move. But we need more info on whether that Ras poll in NM is an outlier, or what's going on down there.
"Convention bounces do not last several weeks."
Wow...IT'S ONLY BEEN ONE WEEK!!! Geez, the McCain supporters seem to be losing their grasp of time.
To be honest I think this is over pending some sort of huge surprise in the world or a huge surprise in the debates.
The O-Campaign does not seem to even be bothering to get any opinions other than itselfs on how to do this.
Don't lose hope!
The Empire may have struck back, but we still have an entire movie left to go!
http://tinyurl.com/anewhope
two quick points about washington.
Sarah Palin' family is from Richland, WA, so she has strong state ties.
Wa and Alaska are very connected economically. They are "BFF".
I think the poll is accurate.
"Convention bounces do not last several weeks. "
There are two horrible things wrong with this sentence that make you look like a fool. Wanna guess before I tell you?
"Convention bounces do not last several weeks." -MidPointMan
This might be the silliest thing I've seen written on this thread, and that's pretty impressive. If you want to look at... I dunno, the numbers generated on this site... you could easily convention bounces are predicted to last several weeks.
The silly partisan bickering is one thing. But please, at least pretend you didn't just find this site five minutes ago.
People have to keep the faith - Obama is going to win this ...
Its going to be very nerve racking all the way until the very end, and there will be people who will doubt along the way - perhaps all the way to 11/4 .
But he is going to pull through .
And it will be the greatest election victory in the history of the United States .
But people, definitely have some faith .
One more thing: if, and I mean IF, Mccain and Pailn win the election it is going to be the end of America`s great power in the world as the country is at a crossroads - so is the world .
The balance of power is shifting in terms of global finance, access to energy and raw materials, right before our eyes and few seem to be fully aware of it ...
Obviously, Palin is not aware of it and the Republican / special interests (Oil, Aerospace/Defence, Pharmaceuticals) party are in denial with their call for more tax cuts and the ridiculous "drill baby drill" (I know that one is pleasing the oil companies) and the "we are all Georgians" nonsense .
Mccain might be aware although he is selling his soul to win the election and will be a pawn if elected - or, face it, gradually ineffective as age wears him down .
I just wish middle America was aware of this ...
In a sense you can`t blame them because the world is changing so fast it is hard for most people to keep up with it and envision where everything is going ...
Anyway, keep the faith people; Palin`s interview was ridiculous yesterday and the people who are aware of what is going on will come out in droves to make sure America makes the right choice and on 11/4 you will be in for a big surprise .
And you will feel hope again ...
Good example of how to get a point across without sounding incredibly bitter or snobby...
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTliMTNiZjg5ZDEwZWNiZDYwZWFjN2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=
Second thoughts anyone? I am sure that some of the Superdelegates are experiencing buyer's remorse. The honeymoon is over; and many democrats are finally begininning to realize that they erred in nominating Senator Obama. Polls don't lie....and that's not even taking into consideration the "Tom Bradley Effect." It appears as if we democrats have handed the election to John McCain and Pistol Packin' Mama Palin!
As the expression goes, "screw up once, shame on you, screw up twice shame on me." In the case of the democrats, "screw up 100 times and we still don't learn."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110263/Battle-Congress-Suddenly-Looks-Competitive.aspx
From Gallup: "If these numbers are sustained through Election Day -- a big if -- Republicans could be expected to regain control of the U.S. House of Representatives."
Guys this makes me nervous. The angry, extremist approach is not working. Who here can sway an uncommitted voter? It's not through blogging about how stupid our opponents are.
Nate's Super Tracker graph looks a bit like a "head and shoulders" pattern from stock technical analysis, or the profile of a baboon (tilt head to left). It's the neckline that scares me.
In response to this comment
Mike said...
"I'm losing what little faith I had in this country."
So you argee with Michelle Obama in that you only have any pride in our county when Obama is winning elections? It is no wonder the left doesn't have the guts to win a war, they don't have the faith in our own county to win an election.
I love this county, no matter who wins this election, no matter who wins this war, because I believe in its underlying principles. Do you?
Mike, the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the underlying principles of our country. Don't try to give the b.s. answer that we went there to free Iraq from Saddam and give Iraqis their deserved freedom! If that were the case why didn't Bush invade N. Korea and other authoritarian regimes? Come on buddy don't deny the obvious.
"Matt Damon was right about Palin and the dinosaurs. Madonna and Barbara Streisand are also on our side."
I would be VERY concerned if this actually made me feel "better" about US politics.
Full on progressive Dem/Obama fan here, and I'd have to say that I totally agree. I'm REALLY sick of celeb commentary on politics, regardless of what side they're on.
Matt J.H. is the best or worst of concern trolls, depending I suppose on how you look at it.
Either way, Obama supoorter or McCain supporter, I'd suggest just skipping over what he says. His "discourse" is starting to look eerily familiar to what drove me away from Politico and to 538 in the first place.
The comments on this site are only useful insofar as they avoid becoming constantly partisan above analytical. I've seen good analysis from both sides, so can we keep that aspect up as much as possible?
This is depressing.. I sure hope this is just a short term bump.
If not, let's hope the checks and balances still in place will keep the jerks from doing too much harm.
But they will be busy ripping those down so when it's Palien's turn to be Pres. it will be nice and easy to screw us all.
This interview , similar to many others that McCain has given where he is reaching out to those who dislike him the most.
It is an indication of his maverick status and deep belief that he wants to be the President of ALL Americans. It would be like Obama going to an NRA meeting.
No, it would be like Obama going on the O'Reilly factor on the Fox News Channel. Which he did.
Just my "humble" opinions, as they say:
She got the "Bridge to Nowhere" question and she did fine with it.
She didn't dig herself a hole, no. She didn't really address the specific question directly either, though.
If the only criticism is that she changed her mind, well that is not going to hurt her.
My memories are foggy. I seem to recall from an election four years ago that "flip-flopping" is right up there with feeding toddlers angel dust.
I tended to disagree.
I don't think having changed her mind will hurt her. But, she "changed her mind" about something that she later touted as Reason Numero Uno she makes a a fine Mrs. Maverick. That may well take some sheen off with some voters.
I am mystified as to why the left thinks this "supported it before opposing it" is a workable attack.
It's more about the "thanks, but no thanks line" and her reasons for discontinuing her support.
If someone offers me a piece of cake, and I say "thanks but no thanks", you typically won't fine me with a forkful of sweetness five seconds later.
When you change your mind to make the right decision, that is not a negative.
The Kerry campaign could have really used that sort of insight -- where were you four years ago? ;)
What makes it fishy is not "she changed her mind".
Rather it is that she (arguably) had her mind changed for her.
I had a situation like this in my youth:
Me: "Mom, I want $5,000 for a car."
Mom: "You can't have it."
Me: "Fine, then I don't want it."
Biden and Obama voted for the bridge, multiple times.
Irrelevant.
If Obama had listed "I opposed it" as a major qualification to be elected, then I would understand you point.
She could have spent the money on the bridge. She simply chose to spend it elsewhere.
"Thanks, but thanks"?
The Dems are walking down a blind alley on this one when everybody learns that Biden and Obama favored that bridge over aid to Katrina victims.
Cite this sucker.
You have to back up your gross oversimplifications/radical distortions.
Well, you don't have to. That makes it far easier to spew nonsense.
John McCain favored funding the the Iraq War over helping our war veterans.
See? Fun. And pointless!
+You are right it is the ECONOMY STUPID and anyone who has ever taken Econ 101 knows that higher taxes on the rich and corporations result in much higher prices to consumers. The cost of high taxes on the super wealthy will hurt the poor far more than help.+
Ooh. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, my friend. Let's try a little Econ 201:
Economies need to be defended. They also need strong infrastructure to grow. It takes money.
If you spend massively while cutting taxes - the Bush economic doctrine if you will - you create massive deficits which must be financed. To attract capital interest rates must rise or the currency devalue. Voila, much higher prices to consumers (and choking off of all investment in future economic growth)
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