9.12.2008

Today's Polls, 9/12

Another fairly strong polling day for John McCain:



The University of Cincinnati's highly-rated Ohio Poll has John McCain leading by 4 points in the Buckeye State. There are no particular demographic quirks in these results; Barack Obama is simply a little behind where he needs to be across the board. The U. of C. (no, not the real U. of C.) had surveyed Ohio once before in February, at that point showing Obama with a 1-point lead, but that was a poll of registered rather than likely voters so the results are not directly comparable.

Rasmussen, meanwhile, shows John McCain closing to within 2 points in Washington, a state in which Obama has generally held large, safe-looking leads. This seems to confirm SurveyUSA's finding from earlier in the week, which showed Obama's lead diminishing to 4 points. The Pac Northwest has a decently-sized evangelical population that may be taking well to Sarah Palin. Still, our model can't imagine Obama losing Washington except in a catastrophic landslide. Oregon, on the other hand, might merit watching. (Edit: Although it looks like there's an Oregon poll out that shows Obama up by 7; it came in too late for our early deadline today).

North Carolina's results have been all over the board, but a new Research 2000 survey for Daily Kos would tend to confirm the pessimistic assessment of Obama's position offered up by SurveyUSA, showing Obama down by 17 points. Whether or McCain's lead in North Carolina is in the double digits or the single digits, it is pretty far removed from being a tipping point state.

Finally, in Missouri, Rasmussen has McCain ahead by 5. This is actually not a terrible result for Obama, as Rasmussen's August poll of Missouri had shown him down 7. Although Obama is clearly losing Missouri, it has moved closer to his national averages as those numbers have regressed, and so retains some currency as a potential swing state.

320 comments

Mike Cohen said...

I'm losing what little faith I had in this country.

joe said...

Obama is working North Carolina mainly to boost turnout for Kay Hagan.

Heck, at this point, he might be trying to ride her coat tails. Good Lord, Liddy Dole is a terrible politician.

Matthew said...

Technical question: how is the size of the state versus sample size worked into the model?

500 seems like a pretty small sample size in a state of close to 6 million people.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Mike, relax. It's just a bubble caused by McCain's 'surge' in lies about himself and Palin.

william said...

At least he closed the gap a bit in the Gallup poll, although McCain's numbers haven't dropped.

Matthew said...

The next few days is probably one of the few times between now and November that the election is not going to be top-ranked news.

Hurricane Ike looks like it is going to be a lot of trouble, all around. I wouldn't usually be so crass as to guess at its political effect at a time like this, but since this is a political effect, I will say that it might have some effect on politics for the next few days or even weeks. The AP said that the wholesale price of gas is now 4.85 a gallon...

tdc2000 said...

new tracking:

Diegeo: 045 M 44
Kos/ Research 2000: 0 47 M 46 N 2 B 2

earlier:
Gallup: M 48 0 45
Ras: M 49 O 46

So, a 2 point McCain lead overall?

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/us_daily_tracking_9911.php

Pacific moderate said...

It'll be interesting to see if Palin's deer-in-the-headlights performance on foreign policy starts being reflected in the polls in a few days. Or am I the only independent voter who want's a President to be better prepared than Charlie Gibson?

Tarik said...

Wow, who'd have thunk it. According to the 538 model, the following are now Obama's most likely paths to victory in order:

1. Colorado: 56% McCain
2. Ohio: 64% McCain
3. Nevada: 65% McCain

All require Mich.; #3 requires N.H. too.

william said...

The gas prices shooting up will favor McCain/Palin. Ain't no hurricanes in Alaska.

takestock said...

Only problem I saw in the Ohio poll from my alma mater (go bearcats!) was Nader getting 5% of the AA vote. Otherwise, looks like Obama needs to play catch up in my home state.

Andrew said...

Now I know how Patriots fans feel about Tom Brady going down and being replaced by Matt Cassell. You start to lose hope and the Superbowl strategy goes out the window. At least there's still a chance at the wildcard.

Matthew said...

Mike said...
"I'm losing what little faith I had in this country."

So you argee with Michelle Obama in that you only have any pride in our county when Obama is winning elections? It is no wonder the left doesn't have the guts to win a war, they don't have the faith in our own county to win an election.
I love this county, no matter who wins this election, no matter who wins this war, because I believe in its underlying principles. Do you?

The Real Mike Is Back said...

When you go to the real U of C's site, there's a nice article about Joe Novak. I encourage everyone to read it.


Repost: Those registration numbers I cited above all happened before the end of July. Certainly, Senator McCain can count on some of these new registrants to vote for him. But every cross tab I've seen by age averages to a 58 to 42 percent advantage for Senator Obama. If that spread holds in Colorado, and consider there have been only 100K new registrations in January to June 08, it's a net gain of at least 16,000 votes for Obama in Colorado. President Bush won Colorado by 4.5% and 100,000 votes. Consider the at least 16K net new votes Obama is likely to get with the fact that Senator McCain has not led in any Colorado poll by more than 3 points, and I draw a lot less noise out of the race there.

Now, I said the word "if" once, and I acknowledge that. Therefore, if you have a fact-based, numerical point to raise that refutes my model, I'd be happy to hear it.

bryen193 said...

Rassmussen Washington state poll is crap. Rossi surged the exact same 10 point's against Gregoire as McCain did against Obama? I think they just called alot more Republicans.

william said...

People who like Palin right now, already know she knows squat about foreign policy. They're still voting for her. So yesterday's interview performance means squat to them. It might lose a few independents, but there will be more interviews in the future, and she'll get better at them (like Obama has).

Obama's earlier interviews and debates were equally deer in headlights.

tibor75 said...

The model is confusing when it comes to Colorado. The model seems to say that McCain is favored in CO because McCain would win teh national vote by at least 2%-3% right now, and with that margin, he should win CO. BUT, there are 3 state polls that all have Obama ahead, albeit narrowly and within the MOE. So, the national polls trump the state polls. Personally, I should think it should be the opposite. If there was no data on CO I would understand, but 3 polls in a week is a lot.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Mike Cohen. A bit of advice. Ditch the faith. Try reason and numbers. I'd hope and pray that America would no longer have racists in this country, but I'd get a big headache from such a futile cause.

bleigh82 said...

In this episode of:

Americans fall for negative campaigning every time...

DarienCrow said...

Good Afternoon all...

Whoa!!!

Look at all the RED on those new polls!

Tim R said...

Another republican administration would be disastrous for this country. It would lead to a massive financial collapse that would start a depression even greater than the one in the 1930's. But stupid voters get what they vote for. That is the mistake the dems always make, they think the voters are smarter then they actually are......

Charles M. Kozierok said...

William: Don't kid yourself.

All "celebrities" go through a honeymoon phase. It's still September. She's still new. She's still hiding from her critics and her opponents and the press and "lip synching".

Sarah Vanilli Wins the Grammy!

fred said...

It will take quite a ground game, and a lessening of the historic voter repression in St. Louis, to win MO. You might want to check into both those stories for the "ground game" reports.

Zach said...

Hey Nate,

I'm a little curious. What would you model predict right now if you had left in the adjustments for the convention bounces?

Charles M. Kozierok said...

This isn't about negative campaigning. It's about the Palin bubble. McCain has to keep it up for 7 weeks, even when Palin herself talks.

She's a fraud lip-synching to the neo-con playbook. Americans need to be smart enough to wake up and see through it. If they don't, they get the disaster they deserve.

markymark said...

Right now I still have faith. I think that McCain is just ahead, but I think thats fairly flimsy right now. I think that one thing that has happened in the polls is that Obama's bounce is wearing off at a point where McCain is still riding his. I think that the polls are all over the place, and part of this is the strange calender this year. I'd be interested to see what Nate's bounce allowance would do to the numbers at this stage?

william said...

Tim R said...
"Another republican administration would be disastrous for this country. It would lead to a massive financial collapse that would start a depression even greater than the one in the 1930's."




And people say only Republicans fear monger.

Tim R said...

I can't even listen to Palin anymore, her voice sounds just like the kidnapped wife's voice in the movie "Fargo". It drives me up a wall..

Tim R said...

It's not fear mongering, it's fact. Just check out the last eight years of republican rule.........

dbnwsnc said...

McCain IS NOT ahead by double digits in NC! That is absurd. Notice the R2000 poll only gives Hagen and Perdue 20 some % of the white vote. That is way off. I am here in NC, and from what I see on the ground, the PPP poll and Civitas Poll, both in NC as well, are much more in line w/ what will happen in November.

Geoff said...

Looks like the election will come down to Ohio and Colorado. No other serious plan to victory for either side. McCain has to win both, Obama needs one.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Another Republican administration is going to be tempered by a 55 non-Republican Senators.

Before anyone jumps off the bridge with a stack of polling, let's stick to real disasters today, like the one that's going to happen to Galveston and Houston. 25 foot high wall of water. God help them all. No exceptions.

william said...

Kozierak, so does this mean Obama is the new Britney Spears? And Palin is Miley Cyrus?

I don't doubt you that Palin will lose her glitter soon. But the problem is, by then, people would have already made up their minds.

DarienCrow said...

McCain is getting close in Washington state?

Rumors must be true about voter supression.

I hear the gun toting farmers from east Washington are invading the streets of Seattle gunning down anyone with a rainbow sticker or a joint in their hand.

Good luck with that.

fred said...

The horrendous thing in Houston is the inability to evacuate everyone. This one could be ugly. God help them.

JRS said...

Although the Daily Kos research 2000 tracking poll has Obama up by 1 point, it is a poll that includes third and fourth party candidates. The inclusion of "other" candidates seems to favor Obama throughout this national election cycle.

Pollster.com has Mccain up 3.1 in a two-candidate contest but only .7 in the polling with four or more candidate options in the race.

The "Reverse Nader Effect" makes little intuitive sense to me. Anyone here want to explain this phenomenon? it can't be Barr hurting McCain since he is only polling in at 1.5% on Pollster.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Agreed, Geoff. When Colorado went pink in Nate's model, it left Obama with 264 EVs. Thus, the plan to victory for Obama most likely goes through Colorado.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"I don't doubt you that Palin will lose her glitter soon. But the problem is, by then, people would have already made up their minds."

Just remember that while Obama has had some celebrity aspects to his personna, there is something behind it.

There's nothing behind Palin. She is a total fabrication of the McCain campaign and the right.

We simply have to hope that eventually people will see through her and realize the danger they put this country in by voting for a clueless fanatic.

fred said...

OH and CO, yes.

I also think FL, MI, NV and PA are a bit more in play than people give them credit for.

cincyr said...

I am shocked with the reviews of Palin's interview yesterday. Had it been Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden or any of the people on McCain's short list (Romney, Lieberman or Pawlenty) we would not be hearing things like, "it wasn't a disaster but it wasn't a home run either" or "she passed". We would be saying they are wholly unqualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency. This is not a high school exam, this is possibly running the most powerful country on earth!

I feel just like I felt when we found out Iraq didn't have any WMDs and that the war was based on a lie - completely and utterly powerless.

Greg said...

Here a little more bad news: AP tracking poll: McCain 48 Obama 44

http://www.syracuse.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/politics-17/122123214520850.xml&storylist=topstories

takestock said...

I think poll-watchers are so focused on today and tomorrow’s results that they’re completely misunderstanding Obama’s game plan. His ads and campaign messages have one purpose: to plant the seeds of doubt against McCain and to slowly grow them towards the Nov 4th election. He’s playing the Long Game. Unlike McCain, who seems to be trying to win the next Gallup poll with his attack ads that twist Obama and Biden’s messages, the Obama team is sticking with these simple themes: McCain=Bush, McCain is not change, McCain will not improve your economic conditions.

If you asked voters I bet 90% of them could not tell you the difference between the two candidate’s healthcare plans, or tax plans, or education plans. They don’t care right now because it’s mid-September and who wants to do any homework this far in advance? But as the election draws near and people start really looking at what’s at stake, those seeds Obama planted will start to grow. Do you think on Nov 4th people will be thinking of “lipstick on a pig” ads or the “more of the same” ads?

Now, I do think Obama needs to keep the race close to keep democrats from getting too discouraged. A close election is ideal for him because it keeps his forces mobilized and motivated to work on the ground game. In fact, even if he could deliver attack ads to open up a big lead, I’d doubt he do it this early because the momentum will fade and democrats will get complacent. It would also escalate the fighting and distract from those seeds he’s planted.

In summary: right now is a popularity contest because voters aren’t ready to study the issues and when they do – and they will with the economy so weak – the Nov 4th winner will be the one that has the best message about their future.

Daniel said...

It's still a race. Don't let the trolls dampen your spirits.

McCain is definitely winning right now -- Nate's model show that but if you look at Diego and Gallup you will see that Obama has flat out won the last two days of polling. Rasmussen shows otherwise for yesterday but still, no state polling shows Obama losing any Kerry state to McCain. Yes, the blue states aren't as blue but they are all still blue (some troll better not tell me about Oregon going red -- new poll out showing Obama +7 in Oregon).

This race is slowly trending to a 50/50 horserace -- of course, Hillary would be up about 8 points right now but Obama's not dead in the water.

Right now, it's the bottom of the 7th inning, McCain is winning 4-3 but team Obama's got a runner on 2nd base and nobody out. They score that run - it's a different ballgame.

tommybacon said...

Obama won't lose Oregon or Washington unless it's the landslidiest of landslides. Do you not remember 75,000 people coming out in Portland to see him? King county (Seattle) dominates Washington just like the Willamette Valley (Portland to Eugene) dominates Oregon. All along the I-5 corridor are liberal hotbeds.

tomthress said...

"The model is confusing when it comes to Colorado. The model seems to say that McCain is favored in CO because McCain would win teh national vote by at least 2%-3% right now, and with that margin, he should win CO. BUT, there are 3 state polls that all have Obama ahead, albeit narrowly and within the MOE. So, the national polls trump the state polls. Personally, I should think it should be the opposite. If there was no data on CO I would understand, but 3 polls in a week is a lot."

I mentioned this in yesterday's polling thread. Having thought about it a little more, I think the problem is that Nate's model is fundamentally at odds with Nate's theory in yesterday's polling thread (expressed elsewhere as well) - that McCain's national bounce is primarily (but not exclusively) the result of red states getting redder.

In effect, I think what's happening in Colorado is that the OLD polls (pre-convention) in Colorado are being trend-adjusted down. But this makes little sense to me - we have 3 polls since the conventions that show Obama up by about 2 points. It's not a huge advantage, but logic would seem to suggest that, as of now, Colorado is probably leaning to Obama - which puts Obama right on the cusp of being the favorite in enough states to win (depending on your take on NM and/or NV).

Then again, it probably wouldn't change the win probability by more than 3-4%. While that might push Obama's win percentage back over 50%, it's not like that would change the fundamental shape of the current race - McCain is up slightly in the popular vote (+2 or so?) while the Electoral College looks to be a bit closer to a pure tossup.

Perhaps pre-convention polls should be downweighted somewhat so that the model is more sensitive to potential changes in the distribution of the race since the conventions, instead of JUST the general trend toward McCain.

Matt said...

Are the national polls being reported too?

Just found this:


AP: MCCAIN/PALIN UP 4...
GALLUP DAILY: UP 3...
RASMUSSEN: UP 3...

fred said...

Nader pulls the whackos, and who know who whackos vote for. Since they are whacked they do not easily fall into our voter categories.

I bet Barr puills almost solely from McCain.

william said...

My girlfriend is in Houston right now, and she says all the gas stations are sold out of gas. For those further inland, the best move would be to just stay home, tape up the windows, and be ready. A last minute evacuation, stuck in traffic, could be a greater disaster.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Admittedly, I don't know the Galveston/Houston area of the country very well. But I do know that the elevation above sea level in Houston alone is about 45 feet. NOAA predicts the storm surge in Galveston Bay is 18 feet.

Get everyone the hell out of there.

fred said...

Tomthress-

Exactly. The model assumes that a national poll is spread across the country evenly, if the red states get redder, and the blue bluer, the national poll will move the purple farther in one direction than it should (the direction of the momentum).

bryen193 said...

Huge news that will shake up the race! Next week, Governor Palin will be interviewed by, wait for it....

Sean Hannity on Fox News

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Daniel: this isn't the seventh inning, more like the fifth.

As I keep saying, it is all Palin and it is all based on smoke and mirrors. People like her because the only things they know about her are the lies McCain says about her and the lies she spews about her record.

fred said...

Tomthress-

Of course, if the purple states are moved to far the state polling should have them back in line in the mdel within a couple polls. We will see if CO is over-corrected.

Mike Cohen said...

I love this country no matter who wins, I'm just shocked at the inane garbage that seems to be moving the numbers recently and anyone who lived through the 2004 election would have their faith in the american people's decision making skills rattled.

Scott said...

Do you think the "undecided" numbers are really as high as the polls indicate, or do you all think there are a lot of people on both sides willing to listen to the other and jump?

Eric said...

I was a little concerned this thing was over this morning. Rasmussen obviously polled huge for McCain last night. This is a poll that probably has a slight lean Dem because of their likely voter model being based over the last 90 days. Rasmussen had been kinder than some, so I kinda thought McCain was up 5 or so nationally. But, Gallup, Diageo, and Research 2000 indicate Obama did well last night, Diageo and Research 2000 have him up 1 and 2 points respectively in last nights polling. Gallup was probably close to even last night. It looks like it's very likely that Obama's tipping points are New Mexico and/or Nevada. They will probably go the direction of the popular IMO. Obama can't behind by more tha 1 point in the popular and expect to win the electoral IMO. But, good news, I have a feeling if the elction were today, it would be within 2 points. I was thinknig for a second there McCain was pulling away and hiding. Obama will probably not be able to make up the difference if the next surge is to grow the McCain lead. Kerry blew out Bush in the debates and it wasn't enough to catch up.

fred said...

That Hannity interview will be a real knee knocker. I bet it is taped to so she can re-do the hard answers.

william said...

Charles M. Kozierok said... "Just remember that while Obama has had some celebrity aspects to his personna, there is something behind it."


Pray tell, what is that something? Hype? Seriously, Obama's earlier interview performances were on par with Sarah Palin's yesterday. I was underwhelmed by her interview, just as I was underwhelmed by Obama's. Palin and Obama are twins, it's just Obama has had the last few months to sharpen his interviewing skills a bit (though his ABC interview last Sunday was pretty subpar too).

Geoff said...

Those Diego/Hotline numbers are troubling for McCain - a three point swing in a single day on a three day tracker. That seems to support the Gallup drop for yesterday and dispute Ras gain. No telling what's really happening out there.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Sean Hannity. Wonderful.

"Great and Esteemed Governor Palin, we've all seen how that evil mulatto bastard Barack Obama, when he isn't trying to teach preschoolers how to have sex, has been taking cheap shots at your experience, even though you manage the biggest state in the Union and he's only a lowly community organizer. How do you manage to maintain your composure so well when any one of us mere mortals would probably tell him to go straight to hell?"

Subterranean said...

matthew asked:

"I love this county, no matter who wins this election, no matter who wins this war, because I believe in its underlying principles. Do you?"

Um, I hope you're being sarcastic here? Being emotionally enslaved to a nationalistic identity is not conducive to clear thinking.

If you must think of yourself as a "citizen" of someplace, make it Planet Earth. We're all in this together.

fred said...

I think the undecideds are very high due to a large number of folks just turned off, or not tuned in.

The huge numbers the convention speeches pulled are still only a fraction of voters.

MATT J. H. said...

I would like to know, at what point should democrats start getting worried about losing?

He's got a great ground game, OK. McCain is getting a bump, OK. Thats not whats worrying me. The press, even Liberal press are admitting Obama is way, way, way, to weak. He's running a high school campaign and McCain is running a win at all cost campaign.

It's far from over but come on Obama. The GOP are lying, tearing you apart and you come back with a very safe ad saying McCain is out of touch, and another saying McCain is not change, at the same time McCain runs an add saying your defaming and being an ignorant sexist jerk to poor helpless Sarah.

When EJ Dion and Anderson Cooper start questioning your toughness, you got problems. I'm in shock about what i see from the Obama campaign. Shock. I'm sure republicans even have to be a little surprised at the lack of fight. This is redickulous.

MichaelR said...

Charles Kozierok - Due the Surge is lies? I don't think the lie level is going to drop. This is not a reason to relax.

I also don't feel the deer in the headlights performance is going to hurt them unless the MSM makes a big deal of it. People will concentrate on her actual response (not answer, response) and decide based on that.

Michael Rasmussen - no relation to Scott the pollster.

bryen193 said...

I wonder if they'll let Alan Colmes mumble in the background or just turn off his mike...

Sebastian said...

Yeah i agree, CO seems to be over-corrected with the national brush...

I always worried that the trend-adjustment might be a little to trigger-happy for individual states, but this weeks Colorado ist the best example to demonstrate it yet...

Scott said...

Do you think the "undecided" numbers are really as high as the polls indicate, or do you all think there are a lot of people on both sides willing to listen to the other and jump?

I totally meant that are the undecideds so "low" - as in, we're seeing like 5-8% undecided. Are there really only 8% of people that can still be swayed?

Arun said...

Evidently, the McCain bounce has not yet peaked.

Eric said...

This is an uncomfortable subject, but coud be decisive. People refer to a "reverse Bradley effect". In some instances, perhaps it could exist like Virginia maybe, but I think unfortunately overwhelmingly the reverse would be true. We have to remember the Democratic Primaries are generally for Democratic voters. This 1/2 of the electorate might prefer to choose something different, the "change" agent, the black man, vs something same and safe all things being equal. The other 1/2 of the electorate or more, the group not voting in the Dem primaries, Republicans and many independents will heavily skew toward looking for a reason to not vote for the different, change, African-American all things being equal. Meaning,if they can get comfortable with the other guy that's not African-American they'll go ahead and vote for him even though they may not admit it. Let's not pretend this isn't true. It could hurt Obama in places like Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire.

takestock said...

I thought the Ras jump for McCain in the nationals was because of the focus yesterday being on 9/11 and terrorism, his strength. But the other polls seem to say otherwise. Who knows and should we really care that much in mid-Sept?

Kid G said...

I predict Gallup will be a near draw, maybe a 1 point lead for McCain, by the end of the weekend. He had +5 for two days in a row, but now the 3 day tracker is down to +3. There is a trend, but a little subtle for now. My theory is that The Palin Effect was maximized 4 days ago, and as people find out more about her, they will run away, far, far away. She is one of those choices which looks terrific for about 2 weeks, and then crashes so hard because of the lack of substance beneath the image. Also, I believe the "McCain is a liar" meme will catch on around the same time.

tomthress said...

"Those Diego/Hotline numbers are troubling for McCain - a three point swing in a single day on a three day tracker."

Well, Rasmussen showed a three-point swing TOWARD McCain today. And Ras polls about 3 times as many people as Diageo.

That said, I'd guess that both of these numbers are just noise at this point. We might see some real movement over the next few days in response to Gov. Palin's interview (I'm honestly not sure which direction that's likely to be; the parts of the interview I saw were underwhelming but not overwhelmingly so, and I don't really get her appeal (aside from her being attractive) so I can't really judge how others might view it).

Jonathan said...

The way 538's Electoral College Map looks right now, it should read Obama 264 McCain 274, not 261-277.

Obama still stands in a really good position to win the election. I'd say he's almost certain to win all of Kerry's states as well as Iowa - which is 259 EV's. All he needs after that is one out of Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and Missouri OR 2 of New Mexico, Nevada, and Colorado (or, Colorado plus the EV in Omaha, as Nebraska splits their electoral votes).

It seems unlikely that of all these 7 battleground states, McCain would win 6. He's barely leading in 6 of the 7 currently, but that is with the new excitement of Sarah Palin as well as the convention bounce. Once they figure out "what (to) do about the bitch", the Obama campaign can't help but win probably over 300 EV's.

Michael said...

Palin easily exceeded the low expectations set-up by the Democrats and the MSM. When she gave Charlie Gibson the Abe Lincoln answer to his 'gotcha' God question I thought his head was going to explode.
Bottom line, she did no harm and the Democrats hopes for a gaffe are dashed. It is also obvious she is quick on her feet and will not make "Biden like" remarks. Obvious take away from the Gibson interviews is that Sarah will be able to handle Biden easily in the VP debate. Unless some external event happens between now and election day I don't see the dynamics of the election changing much. The debates are shaping up to be no better than a wash for both sides (except for Palin crushing Biden). Advantage McCain

realistxxx said...

bryen193 said...
Huge news that will shake up the race! Next week, Governor Palin will be interviewed by, wait for it....

Sean Hannity on Fox News

------------

First Question:

Governor Palin, do you think Barack Obama is too elitist or too inexperienced to be president?

CS said...

I would like to see some polling data about the "undecided" voters in the swing states. My hunch is that they are less educated and less informed about the politics of the world than Sarah Palin and that it will have to be really huge gaff for them to care. I don't think Gibson will be able to provoke it especially when he visits her home and helps her send her son off to war-

Swift Voting and Rove lies work because the undecided voters have decided the last two elections and they seem to be the lowest common denominator.

william said...

Kid G, I wager just the opposite. The Gallup will stay at +3 to +5 range for McCain. If you actually bothered to look at the Gallup poll, McCain's numbers have held steady at 48%. I don't see that 48% changing anytime soon.

Geoff said...

Ras Oklahoma 63-32

MATT J. H. said...

By the time two more months are over, it's not only Obama who could be losing, the democrats are starting to lose their congressional edge.

We are watching history alright this year. This will go down as the biggest collapse in the history of American politics. Its hard to watch. Even republicans must be a little squeamish with watching Bambi get raped from behind in front of the world. All you liberals who think this is going well, and its not time to change strategy, your ignoring reality.

4fathers said...

this election will come down to colorado, since JM will hold onto OH, FL, VA and BO will hold onto MI and PA.

i think MC wins NV and NM. thus making CO, IA and NH the winning triple aces for BO. since we have seen yet to see any strong indication of movement from IA and NH to MC, i think those are locks for BO, making CO the only state in doubt.

call it dumb luck, call it divine intervention, but the dems having their convention in CO, and more importantly, using BO's outdoor acceptance speech to register 46,000 will give him the miniscule advantage he needs to tip the state in his favor. im even willing to go as far as saying he win by only 20 thousands votes, thus making that 46,000 # look awfully ironic.

Scott said...

Ras Oklahoma 63-32

Oh crap, it's over. Let's pack it in, Obama supporters.

:)

Bad Poet said...

Why is everyone with Republican/conservative views called a "troll"?

Mason said...

I would like to know, at what point should democrats start getting worried about losing?

November 5th.

Scott said...

I would like to know, at what point should democrats start getting worried about losing?

November 5th.


I'll do you one better. If by 10PM EST on Nov. 4th the exit polls aren't looking good, that's probably a good time to worry.

bryen193 said...

Re: Bradley Effect

If it even exists anymore, it is likely to manifest most in states with older populations. It's also most likely to manifest in exit polls where the interview is conducted face to face with a live person. It's less likely to manifest in a telephone interview, and even less likely to manifest in a telephone poll conducted by an automated recorded voice which gives the interviewee the feeling of total privacy akin to being in a voting booth. One of the most interesting aspects of this campaign to me is the "bradley effect" versus the much hyped Obama ground game and new voters. Which side is going to outperform the polls??

Tim R said...

"Huge news that will shake up the race! Next week, Governor Palin will be interviewed by, wait for it....

Sean Hannity on Fox News"


I bet the first question will be her favorite color...........

fred said...

Dems are trolls too, just stick around.

We love Virginia Conservative because he posts real data and has real discussions.

trolls are folks who just agitate, we do get more repub versions of those - draw your own conclusions.

Mason said...

Why is everyone with Republican/conservative views called a "troll"?

They aren't. Stop trolling.

G.I. Joe from PA said...

Polls have been all over the place for some of the smaller, not-so-battleground states; however, the polls are so close that I believe if WA or NC were to change color this election, then that would bad news for whichever candidate you support.

Reports in the early summer predicted a complete re-organization of the Electoral Map, but I think the candidates will pretty much follow the '04 model with slight movements, assuming neither candidate doesn't make a major screw-the-pooch move.

Good and insightful reporting from the 538 field team! Keep up the SITREPS.

Bad Poet said...

Why is anyone with Republican/conservative views called a "troll"?

Eric said...

takestock said...
I thought the Ras jump for McCain in the nationals was because of the focus yesterday being on 9/11 and terrorism, his strength. But the other polls seem to say otherwise. Who knows and should we really care that much in mid-Sept?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry_hth.html

See above, historically a cnadidate can't make up big ground in the last month and a half. Kerry was down huge, massacred Bush in the debates and couldn't close the gap. Only twice recently has a candidate that was behind Mid-Sept caught up and overtaken their opponent. Reagan v Carter '80 and Kennedy v Nixon '60. Both instances Kennedy and Reagan were barely behind. Enough of the electorate makes up their mind before the debates that you're not going to have a huge swing between now and then. 2 or 3 points maybe, 5 points no way.

rosidae said...

Please stop saying "we get what we deserve". I'm a citizen, and it's very depressing. Do I get what I deserve if I do all I can to elect Obama?
Do I get what I deserve if they stopped counting votes in 2004 in Florida?

takestock said...

"Huge news that will shake up the race! Next week, Governor Palin will be interviewed by, wait for it....

Sean Hannity on Fox News"



Q: Would McCain be a great president or the Greatest president?

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Charles - You forgot uppity.

@ Mike Cohen - One cohort's stupidity is another politician's path to victory. :-) A good swatch of the country is just not mentally prepared to see Barack Obama as President. Is that a majority or a plurality? That's what this election will decide once again!

@ Matt J.H. - When Colorado went pink, I posted that was the "Alamo" position. That gave Obama 264 EVs. If New Mexico falls apart amongst the noise, that's the sign that he's in real trouble. A very successful politician once told me that the key to winning in politics is to keep your powder dry and not fire until you see the whites of their eyes. Obama might have been waiting until the convention AND 9/11 to cut through the noise. Many posters here have taken a wait and see attitude until the 15th or 16th.

Scott said...

I STILL wouldn't be surprised if there were a big shift in the electoral map in some places. I don't expect it, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Here's my question - how long before the MSM starts calling foul on the divergent poll results and realizing that their sample sizes have been terribly skewed (on both sides many time)?

tomthress said...

"This is an uncomfortable subject, but coud be decisive. People refer to a "reverse Bradley effect". In some instances, perhaps it could exist like Virginia maybe, but I think unfortunately overwhelmingly the reverse would be true. We have to remember the Democratic Primaries are generally for Democratic voters. This 1/2 of the electorate might prefer to choose something different, the "change" agent, the black man, vs something same and safe all things being equal. The other 1/2 of the electorate or more, the group not voting in the Dem primaries, Republicans and many independents will heavily skew toward looking for a reason to not vote for the different, change, African-American all things being equal."

Remember, though, that the "Bradley Effect" isn't a claim that people are racists. It's a claim that people are racists WHO LIE TO POLLSTERS. It seems to me that Republicans and Independents should feel perfectly justified in voting for McCain over Obama because McCain's a Republican and a man who has obvious appeal to independents. I would think the people most likely to LIE about their racism would be those who SHOULD be voting for Obama - i.e., Democrats.

As long as racists are honestly telling pollsters that they're going to vote for McCain, then the racism in this country is already being accurately reflected in the polls.

Stuart said...

Intrade has CO at 55 dem 48 rep, so clearly they are favoring the more recent polls more than Nate's model.
Dem Ask is 60, bid 52.1
Reb Ask is 48, bid 42.2

Another interesting point is that based on Intrade's state by state prices Obama is the winner (273 EV), but the top level has McCain 53 and Obama 45.

fred said...

We are looking at 2-3 points nationally, and a more divided electorate than normal. Don't get worried yet.

MATT J. H. said...

I'm not panicking or anything, I just see the obvious. Look at the super tracker. Since July when McCain hired Schmidt and started going negative, the tracker is straight down except for the democratic convention, 1 week blip.

Obama has been on defense for 3.5 months. You can't win on defense. What ever happened to bringing a gun to a knife fight. What ever happened to not being swift boated. The Obama campaign new slogan:

"ALL TALK, NO ACTION"

Jake Tapper from ABC wrote that Obama has said 4 times now that the gloves are off. When the F**K are the gloves coming off.

Daniel said...

For those who are posting that they are losing faith in america -- why just now?

The people that decide who becomes president live in the heartland and have 90-95 IQ's. America is a land of below-average intelligence drones who only understand easy to remember sound bytes and can be easily fooled. It's a fraternity mentality -- they may not like the situation they are in, they may feel left behind but they can always claim to be americans and it's this lowest common denominator that they treasure. So, the GOP runs the country into the ground, the heartland gets pissed off at them, the GOP re-tools their message directed right at the 90-95 IQ folks and they come home to the GOP -- like a heard of cattle.

Has the GOP even tried to tailor a message to secular america -- of course not, you are all posting here on 538, by simply posting on a blog makes you too intelligent to approach. The McCain campaign knows they can lie and get away with it because the lies are simply reinforcing the backwards thinking the 90-95 IQ people already believe.

The GOP are masters at winning presidential elections but are woeful at actually leading. They win with 51% of the vote and then say f*** you to the other 49% and severely underperform for the 51% that voted them into office.

McCain will likely win and be a horrible president - he'll start some war with Iran in 2010 and then rally the heartland around the troops and the flag to win again in 2012.

It's just the way it is. If the DEMS stopped running lawyers who talk too much and lean left, perhaps the people in OH and IN and VA would give them a chance.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Of course, how could I forget 'uppity'! Thanks.

I updated it.

"Great and Esteemed Governor Palin, we've all seen how that evil mulatto scumbag Barack Obama, when he isn't trying to teach preschoolers how to have sex, has been taking cheap shots at your extensive experience, even though you manage the biggest state in the Union and he's only a lowly community organizer. How do you manage to maintain your composure so incredibly well, inspiring all American women to hit new heights of achievement and patriotism, when any one of us mere mortals would probably tell the uppity conniving bastard to go straight to hell?"

I hear Colmes will be assigned to polish her guns while Hannity interviews her.

takestock said...

eric, the difference this time is the economy. People vote for self-interests when the economy is weak. Issues will matter much more as we get closer. I do agree that Obama must be careful to keep it close leading into the debates and start pushing the issues after the debates much harder.

James said...

To answer the question of why people vote republican, I would suggest this article by a liberal, UVa psychologist -

http://edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html

One interesting outcome of his research is that it's far easier for a conservative to play the liberal role in a debate, for instance, than the other way around.

Interesting piece.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"It's just the way it is. If the DEMS stopped running lawyers who talk too much and lean left, perhaps the people in OH and IN and VA would give them a chance."

I suggest they recruit Paris for 2012. She already makes better attack ads than Plouffe. LOL.

tomthress said...

"i think MC wins NV and NM. thus making CO, IA and NH the winning triple aces for BO. since we have seen yet to see any strong indication of movement from IA and NH to MC, i think those are locks for BO, making CO the only state in doubt."

If McCain wins NV and NM, then Colorado doesn't win the election for Obama. Kerry + Iowa is 259 and Colorado's 9 - which adds up to 268 for Obama and a 270-268 McCain win.

Scott said...

Obama NEEDS to make sure the vast majority of Americans know that the economic plans are tax cuts for many-verus-trickle-down from the top, and one would think that would be enough to put him over the top. John McCain will eventually HAVE to address his economic plan.

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!

Mason said...

It's just the way it is. If the DEMS stopped running lawyers who talk too much and lean left, perhaps the people in OH and IN and VA would give them a chance.

You lost me here... If the Dems start doing that, they should strike the tent because they'd just be GOP-lite. What the hell is the point of that? Just having power? What good is that if you're going to do the same thing the GOP would do with it.

David said...

There's a great article up on Politico this morning.

Bill Clinton's advice to Barack Obama

There's only one Democrat alive in the world who seemingly knows how to win an election anymore and that man is William Jefferson Clinton. The Obama camp needs to quit thinking it can forge a new strategy for victory and get back to those that will actually work.

I also think it was a mistake, in hindsight, for Obama to turn down the town halls with McCain. The physical distance between the two candidates has opened the door for the "campaign via attack ads" that the Republicans are just simply better at.

fred said...

"I hear Colmes will be assigned to polish her guns while Hannity interviews her."

I thought Colmes would be licking the dominatrix' boots...

DanP said...

So, if we shouldn't panic now, when is the appropriate time to panic, friends?

Nate says the heavy up cycle of the bounce ends this week, but instead we see the otherwise steady Rasmussen poll showing McCain going up like gang busters.

I think Obama needs to pull out a trump card, or maybe a joker from the deck.

What I am thinking: Biden announces that he is resigning as VP candidate to take on the promised duty of Secretary of State in the Obama administration. He is doing this because he feels his experience will best be used in this role and that the new VP candidate in waiting will best serve the electoral process for the new administration. Guess who? Hillary Clinton comes in as the new Obama VP candidate.

Sounds crazy, right? But certainly, it would shake things up like nobody's business and Obama would have the headlines for the next two weeks for certain. And can you imagine the vice presidential debates?

william said...

Daniel, there are just as many stupid liberals as there are stupid conservatives. Get over yourself. I live in Chicago, where it's fashionable (like an iPod) to be a liberal, no kidding.

AxmxZ said...

Heh. Shout-out to the real U of C! Crescat scientia!

Overrated said...

Don't lose faith. Obama's ground game is going to do it. His 50 state move is not dead. He will flip several states because I see a lot of bumber stickers and yard signs for Obama. The hype is real. His fundraising will improve. Please, please, please do not stop believing! Help is on the way from Hollywood and the Clintons. Matt Damon was right about Palin and the dinosaurs. Madonna and Barbara Streisand are also on our side. I'm going to go and make some more phone calls and canvass my neighborhood.

fred said...

Shout out to the real U of C. What right minded individual who went to the real U of C (I did) would be proud of that...aren't we all just bitter from the experience?

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Daniel, there are just as many stupid liberals as there are stupid conservatives."

No, actually, there aren't. Sorry if the truth hurts.

McCain's entire campaign is designed to appeal to the stupid. The stupider and more easily manipulated, the better. The fact that it is working is proof that what you said is false.

McCain has abandoned any sense of honor or decency or focus on real issues. He has made it a referendum on the intelligence of the American people. If he wins, we lose.

jakam said...
This post has been removed by the author.
william said...

Amen axmxz! The real UofC alumni here!

DarienCrow said...

"Bill Clinton's advice to Barack Obama"

Funnel campaign millions into offshore accounts

jakam said...

From the clips I saw on Huffington, I don't think John McCain will be agreeing to any more appearances on The View...they pretty much tore into him like a pack of vultures on a carcass.

Geoff said...

Daniel - damning commentary, but accurate.

I think you're overlooking the skill of GOP campaign teams and overstating the "fact" that the country has been run into the ground.

We're at 6.1% unemployment - and the average for the 2000's is lower than the 80's or 90's. I'm not saying this isnt an economic slowdown and shaky time, but let's not overstate things that are statistically disprovable.

fred said...

It is far from over. Kerry plus IA are still very safe and McCain has to pull OH, FL, etc. 600,000 new voters in FL!

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"I thought Colmes would be licking the dominatrix' boots..."

Nah, that wouldn't seem 'fair and balanced' enough.

Eric said...

For whatever it's worth, I think if you aggregated all of the polling done just yesterday from all of the polls, it was probably dead-even. That's good for Obama.

william said...

Charles M. Kozierok, shut the f'uck up.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Scott - The MSM will NEVER say the polls are wrong. They pay for them to take place. And you're once again correct about the economy. It's too big an issue to either ignore or lie about for the Republicans.

@ Daniel - What have you done today to register your neighbors or convince them that your side is worth their vote? Don't bitch here - everyone except those who think one candidate is going to win 40 states is of above average intelligence.

Zornorph said...

Ras Oklahoma 63-32

Oklahoma, Okay!

Why does anyone even bother polling a state like that? Where is the VT poll? 'cause I really want to know!

MATT J. H. said...

The real Mike is back said ...
@ Matt J.H. - When Colorado went pink, I posted that was the "Alamo" position. That gave Obama 264 EVs. If New Mexico falls apart amongst the noise, that's the sign that he's in real trouble. A very successful politician once told me that the key to winning in politics is to keep your powder dry and not fire until you see the whites of their eyes. Obama might have been waiting until the convention AND 9/11 to cut through the noise. Many posters here have taken a wait and see attitude until the 15th or 16th.


Thats bullshit. It's what my ultra liberal friends say about Obama. The guy is weak. I don't care about any polls, or the electoral college for the moment. He's getting swift boated on a daily basis and his responses are laughable. "Look at the article ths Wash. Post. wrote calling out McCain, and the New York Times"

Obama campaign yesterday "The gloves are coming off"
OK, Im waiting. Not those two lame ass ads you released. You coward. Obama is redefining pussy. From now on, we'll refer to cowardly behavour as Obama'd.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

At least Charles didn't say "I thought Colmes would be polishing Governor Palin's guns with his mouth..." :-D

william said...

Isn't Oklahoma declaring sovereignty or something? Has it passed the state senate?

Greg said...

The McCain surge goes on.

CONTINUE TO SPREAD THE WORD!!!

Obama, Kerry or Dukakis?

When did he lose the elction? Was it the European trip, or the selection of Palin, or was it Saddleback?

Discuss!!!

phaestus said...

"Matt Damon was right about Palin and the dinosaurs. Madonna and Barbara Streisand are also on our side."

I would be VERY concerned if this actually made me feel "better" about US politics.

Cugel said...

It looks like McCain's lead in national polling is starting to regress towards a tie, the way Nate's model predicted weeks ago, down 2 in the Gallup polling the last 2 days, and other pollsters showing a -1 McCain lead (although he seems to have bounced in Rasmussen by by +3% today. Well have to see where that goes.) .

Having the 2nd convention gave McCain about a 2 week bounce just as Nate predicted earlier whereas Obama's was short-lived.

Certainly, Republicans are all on board. Obama has still NOT gotten to 89% like Kerry did and he only has 6 weeks to do it.

We know from Bush 2004 that the best possible GOTV effort can only make up about 2.4% nationally on election day, because that's what Bush accomplished. Party ID going into the election was 37% Democrat - 37% Republican, but Bush won by 2.4%, so that was the margin produced by his ground-game.

So, if McCain is ahead by 2% on election eve Obama is facing a steep hill at best, and if McCain is ahead by 3% or more he'll win no matter how good Obama's GOTV efforts are.

On the other hand, if Obama can draw to a tie, or even a +1 - +3% lead then he'll be in good shape in November.

Probably McCain cannot maintain his lead without some additional outside influence, such as winning the debates (possible given the stupidity of low-information voters and the fact that the News Media are "my base").

But, it's equally unlikely that Obama can pull from a tie into the lead without doing something to shake things up. He needs to go all out on the offensive to rally his own base. "Sharpening" his attacks is not going to be enough. He's got to engage voters and inspire them the way he did during the nomination campaign, especially on economic issues.

He doesn't want to go into the election with NO lead and having to pull it all out on election day with a GOTV effort. That didn't work for Kerry and it's certainly possible that McCain would be able to largely offset Oabama's GOTV efforts. Indeed it's likely if Republicans can move into a tie with Democrats nationally on Party ID.

G.I. Joe from PA said...

DanP: "Hillary comes in as the new VP candidate"

I don't think you sound too crazy at all. That would definitely make things interesting, even if he did it as late as OCT. I would even enjoy watching that campaign more.

I suggested that possibility to a family member this morning....

Relyzinger said...

Stuart said...

Another interesting point is that based on Intrade's state by state prices Obama is the winner (273 EV), but the top level has McCain 53 and Obama 45.


Because some people are rigging it. IEM still has it at 52Obama 48McCain. Intrade gets a lot of attention and it's volume is very low. If you're willing to lose $5000-$6000 a day you can push Obama's price a couple bucks down and McCain's price up. It's a lot cheaper than a TV ad and really depresses the dailykos crowd. See?

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Where is the VT poll? 'cause I really want to know!"

If only I could properly describe the look on the face of a friend of mine at the grocery store yesterday when I mentioned Sarah Palin. That would do fine as a "VT poll" from what I can tell. LOL

Overrated said...

Yo, Charles M. Kozierok, you need to seek therapy soon. All this anger and resentment is going to destroy you from the inside/out. Are you taking medication?

Tim R said...

Chuck Todd on MSNBC yesterday said his feeling is that whoever is ahead on Oct 15th will end up winning on Nov 4th.

joe said...

Fivethirtyeight's aggregations, heck everybody's aggregations, seems to be lagging indicators. For example, Colorado stayed blue well after the Republican convention, when McCain was regularly polling ahead, and now it turns pink, when several polls in a row have come in showing Obama ahead.

jakam said...

Obama wins the moderates handily in that UC poll, so Ohio must have a lot of voters who self-identify as both conservative and Democrat for McCain to win the overall count.

jakam said...
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Trevor said...

The Rice/Inhofe race is worth a poll, as it's been within 9%, although I still expect Inhofe to win it going away.

Oklahoma actually has almost even registration of Dems and GOP, but most of the Dems are more of the Zell Miller or at least Ben Nelson persuasion.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

I don't think the Hillary thing will happen. But I did posit a few days ago that it was possible not just that she would be a last-minute replacement but that Obama planned to bring her in late all along.

It could explain the weak campaign behavior over the last couple of weeks.

bjb1968 said...

"Scott said...
Obama NEEDS to make sure the vast majority of Americans know that the economic plans are tax cuts for many-verus-trickle-down from the top, and one would think that would be enough to put him over the top. John McCain will eventually HAVE to address his economic plan.

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!"

You are right it is the ECONOMY STUPID and anyone who has ever taken Econ 101 knows that higher taxes on the rich and corporations result in much higher prices to consumers. The cost of high taxes on the super wealthy will hurt the poor far more than help.

Mason said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Mike Cohen said...

Good post Charles. That's the only way republicans can win elections.

fred said...

I think there is an outside shot at 3% nationally and 5% in some states with the ground game. Energizing the youth is great, if you can herd them to the voting booth.

Remember your youth? I was even passionate about a few things then (before I went to the "real" of U of C - who taught me to have no hope...Nietzche was right, wasn't he?)

Greg said...

The only way Democrats win elections is...oh wait, they never win! =)

Mason said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Mason said...

Matt JH-
STFU already. You post that same shit three times a thread. You're like the liberal PeteKent. Get your ass out on the street and start knocking on some god damn doors, if you're so pissed.

joe said...

When did he lose the elction? Was it the European trip, or the selection of Palin, or was it Saddleback?

McCain lost the election when "tire gauge" failed to become a punch line.

It's impressive that your shiny new Christmas toy Palin didn't get broken until after mid-afternoon, but she's getting killed today. John McCain has made one presidential decision in his life, and it was to have Gidget assume the role of Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces if bin Laden blows up the White House.

You can put as much lipstick as you want on this pig, he's still a pig. And now the lipstick is wearing off.

DarienCrow said...

Won't happen Charles.

It would underscore the judgement problem Obama has and the next ad from RNC would be a constant 24/7 loop clip of Rudy saying... "Joe Biden... if I were you I would get that VP thing... IN WRITING!"

David said...

"Funnel campaign millions into offshore accounts"

You take what you can get.

InkStain said...

"You are right it is the ECONOMY STUPID and anyone who has ever taken Econ 101 knows that higher taxes on the rich and corporations result in much higher prices to consumers. The cost of high taxes on the super wealthy will hurt the poor far more than help."

That's not what they taught in my Econ 101. They taught that the price of the inputs only indirectly affect the price of the final product.

David said...

"When did he lose the elction? Was it the European trip, or the selection of Palin, or was it Saddleback?"

You forgot the selection of Biden.

Greg said...

Why is McCain surging ahead in the polls, Joe?

It's a little late to still say it's a "convention bounce". Looking like a permanent Palin Effect instead! =)

LOL!

cincyr said...

Why doesn't McCain go on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann"? Obama went on the "O'Reilly Factor". I'd really like to see how McCain would hold up.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

I understand, Matt. My very successful politician friend is not an ultra liberal, for the record. But you're watching the contest through the media's eyes, not your own. That's a terrible surrender of your own ability to reason.

PeteKent said...

The Lib Dem trolls on this board simply refuse to recognize the transcendant power of Governor Palin.

The public does not care a whit about media characterizations of her performace which were as partisan as everything else about the coverage of this iconographic lady from Alaska.

Her exposure from the Gibson interviews will only serve to further improve the popularity of the McCain-Palin ticket, as the people go ahead and prove that the media are irrevevant as are Liberal Democrats.

Mike Cohen said...

Greg seems to think this is sports argument. I hope you enjoyed the Bush years because your "team" won.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Why doesn't McCain go on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann"? Obama went on the "O'Reilly Factor"."

Because he's a coward. Just like Palin.

Eric said...

Relyzinger said...
Because some people are rigging it. IEM still has it at 52Obama 48McCain. Intrade gets a lot of attention and it's volume is very low. If you're willing to lose $5000-$6000 a day you can push Obama's price a couple bucks down and McCain's price up. It's a lot cheaper than a TV ad and really depresses the dailykos crowd. See?


What kind of volume are we seeing on IEM? I just checked it out, but can't figur that out. I notice the same thing on Intrade, low volume and liquidity, makes it very imperfect.

Daniel said...

William,
There are tons of stupid liberals, like the ones who nominated Obama instead of Hillary but that's not the point.

Liberals almost always vote their circumstances. If they are poor, they vote for a change. Conservatives in the heartland don't vote their circumstances, they vote their reptilian instincts which say we've got to keep america white, keep our guns (never understanding what the NRA really stands for), keep our flag, keep our pastor. They hate anybody who is not like them, even if that person can help them. And they never know exactly what they can accomplish. The GOP drives these points home election after election. "We'll protect you, we'll get rid of abortion, we'll allow you to keep your guns" -- the problem is, they already are protected no matter who is president, abortion will never be illegal again in america and nobody will ever take away their guns. So the GOP promises things that are inconsequential because no matter who is president, it will not change but the heartland never seems to realize this.

My brother is a doctor in Arkansas/Tennessee and he tells me he can't believe how many white people don't understand their rights with respect to their health insurance and they just figure they have to pay out of pocket every time. The GOP knows this, so they sell national healthcare as a gimmick to the heartland -- just one more thing the mexicans get, the blacks get that you won't get.

And yes, to an earlier comment, the Paris Hilton ad was probably the best attack ad against McCain this election cycle. The guys running Obama's campaign have probably lost it for their guy. They must be telling Barack every day, "Baby, you're money...don't worry about these polls because we've got the ground game going on...take another week off and head to Hawaii because we're gonna win, don't you worry".

Linus said...

At this point i feel like asking more about Geovany Soto's PECOTA projections and comps than I do about the polling data.

I do wonder how Sarah Palin's Charlie Gibson interview played out. She did not come across as knowing anything about foreign policy, but people may still be blinded by her personality.

fred said...

Petekent-

She is a transcedent power? Kinda like you used to call Obama? Why is that a good thing now when it wasn't before?

The Palin shine will wear off....

Scott said...

The Lib Dem trolls on this board simply refuse to recognize the transcendant power of Governor Palin.

What is transcendent about someone who gives a strong boost in the south, but gives a net loss everywhere else?

I'll actually be interested to see that breakdown again in the next weekly recap.

Mason said...

See what I mean Matt JH?

PK's all over Palin the point of absurdity.
You're all over Hillary.

Hell, I'm no shrink I'd say both of you have mommy issues.

InkStain said...

"The Lib Dem trolls on this board simply refuse to recognize the transcendant power of Governor Palin."

I recongize the power the right, desperate to win, has chosen to imagine she has, which in an election will be just as good as having it.

joe said...

Why is McCain surging ahead in the polls, Joe?

He's not, Greg. Obama is polling better now than he was at the beginning of the week, and was polling better at the beginning of the week than he was over the weekend. I guess this what you'd call a "French Surge."

Seriously, read some numbers. I kan haz calkulatr?

Charles M. Kozierok said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Scott said...

I kan haz calkulatr?

Very few things on this site do, but that made me LOL.

Greg said...

Behind only two in Washington state is a "French surge"?

Going UP in Rasmussen is a "French surge"?

How about steamrolling Obama in North Carolina?

Face it, libs. it's over.

The rust belt won't go for a black guy, you lost that when he didn't pick Hillary.

And you lost the west when McCain picked Palin.

MATT J. H. said...

Mason, FU.

McCain is barley competent to run a cardboard box. Palin doesn't even know what the Bush Doctrine is, and they're going to be running the free world.

We hired Mr Harvard to win the election and he's f***ing useless.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Pete: Earlier today I called you a 'shitstain with a keyboard'. This was not what I meant to say precisely.

I actually meant to say that you're a shitstain with a keyboard *and lipstick*.

Sorry for the confusion.

James said...

Nate, no-one at the University of Cincinnati calls it "U. of C." so there is no confusion with Chicago. The correct term is "U.C." There are sometimes confusions with the California system, but Cincy has the uc.edu domain, so they can deal with it.

DarienCrow said...

Yeah Scott that 10 point shift in Washington state... do you mean everything south of Alaska?

Nicholas said...

Palin is like Ferraro in '84. A lot of excitement and hype that--coupled with the convention--is holding her candidate up with a very, very slim lead. Unfortunately, the hype is based on nothing but identity and mythology, with an underbelly of scandals, lies, inexperience. This is already beginning to peek through and by November 4th, we’ll have realized she is at best a wash and possibly a negative on McCain.

Mason said...

People-
Don't engage Greg. He's illogical:

He was defending Palin;s statement about war with Russia before it was known she was talking about NATO.

MATT J. H. said...

Danial said ...And yes, to an earlier comment, the Paris Hilton ad was probably the best attack ad against McCain this election cycle. The guys running Obama's campaign have probably lost it for their guy. They must be telling Barack every day, "Baby, you're money...don't worry about these polls because we've got the ground game going on...take another week off and head to Hawaii because we're gonna win, don't you worry".

Yup, thats about right.

Mason said...

We hired Mr Harvard to win the election and he's f***ing useless.

You want some cheese with that whine?

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Greg is the perfect example of someone who thinks the candidate he supports is going to win 40 states.

Alex S. said...

Hmm, I guess Rasmussen polled rather late yesterday, with the 9/11 anniversary in the evening news.

Nate, what do you make of the 4 MC polls, 2 showing a close race, and 2 showing a blowout?

Overrated said...

Is it true that Charles M. Kozierok felates Olbermann?

joe said...

Behind only two in Washington state is a "French surge"?

Going UP in Rasmussen is a "French surge"?

How about steamrolling Obama in North Carolina?


This is the type of statement you make when you cherrypick individual polls. There have been just as many polls coming out showing Obama close in NC, for example. There has been precisely one poll from Washington state showing a close race. Rasmussen shows him going up, the Gallup tracker shows him dropping.

In the aggregate, McCain had a good-sized lead at the end of last week, and it's been dropping, to where it is now close to even. Will it continue to drop? We'll see. Signs point to yes, sez the magic 8-ball.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Matt, relax. It's September. It's way, way too early to panic.

If Obama is still behind and running anemic ads in a month, then you can panic. He won't be.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

LOLCATZ!!! LOL!!!

DarienCrow said...

I think Greg is just saying that you all have 40 states to worry about.

James said...

Obama may just not be the guy. He seems incapable of doing anything now that the "inevitable" history idea is failing.

GOP now up 5% in Gallup's likely voters in the generic congressional poll. Dems are not too happy running with Obama, especially those in Red seats who only got in last time.

It's crumbling. Not to say that it won't come back, but wishful thinking (Palin will suddenly implode, Hillary will come on the ticket) won't make it happen.

Will PA and MI turning pale pink on Nate's map make it happen??

Mason said...

Matt JH-
Hillary got her ass handed to her as a candidate by an upstart. There is no reason to think that the GOP wouldn't have done the same to her that they're doing to Obama. You're such a jumpy frontrunner that probably tossed your Tom Brady jersey in the trash last Sunday.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Is it true that Charles M. Kozierok felates Olbermann?"

Aw, now you're just making me blush!

Charles M. Kozierok said...

James: you sound like a football fan panicking in the SUper Bowl because his team is down 20-17 at halftime.

Relax. Plenty of game to go.

Scott said...

what do you make of the 4 MC polls, 2 showing a close race, and 2 showing a blowout?

IIRC, the 2 blowout polls grossly misrepresented younger voters (like 4% in one of them), while the 2 closer ones shifted a little too much on Democratic party IDs; wasn't the consensus that the real margin was probably in the 8-10 range right now?

Overrated said...

Charles M. Kozierok said...
"Is it true that Charles M. Kozierok felates Olbermann?"

Aw, now you're just making me blush!

LOL!

Above my Paygrade said...

Nate can you run Obama loses OH/CO and wins election. I would like to see that number. It appears from the other stats that OH and CO are the two either or states for Obama here in the winning scenarios and he is hard to beat if he gets both.

takestock said...

Re: the stupid economy

I posted a CCI chart the other day, but let me show the Univ of Mich sentiment chart which got some new numbers today:

Univ of Mich


Focus on the green line, the expectations of the future – that’s what drives voters. A few months ago we hit an all-time low in that number in the CCI, I think a low in the Univ of Mich survey. Much worse than 2004, 2000, and even 1992. You’ll note it has bounced up quite a bit lately, mostly due to lower gas prices, which have made folks a little less fearful, although that will likely change as the economy begins to show weakness (sidenote: the oil decline is likely more from a global economic slowdown, not good). But consumer (ie voter) outlooks are still very negative and will likely lead to people voting against the incumbents. Keep an eye on the economic news though. Good news is good for republicans, but really good news may be needed to help in time for the election. I don’t see that happening.

MATT J. H. said...

Charles, when Obama keeps saying he's going to take the gloves off, and then he precedes to not take the gloves off, I get worried.

Everyone keeps saying, "Don't worry, it's coming. give it a few more weeks. When the time is right."

Have you guys considered that there is no fight coming. We've seen it. The ads Obama released today are his hard hitting ads. Thats what worries me.

InkStain said...

" Nate can you run Obama loses OH/CO and wins election. I would like to see that number. It appears from the other stats that OH and CO are the two either or states for Obama here in the winning scenarios and he is hard to beat if he gets both."

The only winning scenarios there are Florida, Virginia, or NM/NV and a house vote?

Only the latter seems even plausible.

Greg said...

Dems must be seriously panicked about that Gallup Congressional poll!

SPREAD THE WORD!

The Real Mike Is Back said...

That Politico article about the Clinton/Obama meeting is a hoot. Does the author really think Bill Clinton said to Barack Obama "Don't make this about you?" That's nice advice to give anyone running for president... in January of 2007.

bryen193 said...

"McCain's entire campaign is designed to appeal to the stupid. The stupider and more easily manipulated, the better."

No no no... You don't get it. The majority of the voting population that cares about the issues and public policy is polarized to such a degree that any successful campaign has to be run appeal strictly to that 15-20% of the voters who vote like clockwork in presidential elections because it's their civic duty, but do not follow politics and have no interest in it or any of the issues. It does not mean that they are stupid or idiots. They just don't care about political issues - either way. They vote for who they LIKE. The the presidential campaign comes down to a human interest story and the Republicans are still miles ahead of the Democrats in running this type of campaign.

I was at a family gathering talking to my mother and her sister - women in their 70's. My mother asked me what I thought of Sarah Palin. I said "I dunno Mom, what do you think?" She said "Oh I LIKE her!". My aunt agreed. When I pressed for a reason, they didn't have one, they just LIKE her - alot. I asked them about Obama and guess what? They don't like him. If pressed about their opinion on the issues outside of the context of the presidential campaign, I bet they'd agree with the Democratic party position on virtually everything. Does this mean they are idiots? Of course not. They just don't care about political issues and don't make the connection of how who wins the election will impact their lives in any meaningful way. You don't think that Reagan got elected twice because the electorate liked his politics, do you? People just liked Reagan. The only reason at this point that Obama even has a chance is that it's become pervasive common knowledge among people that pay very little attention that the Bush administration is corrupt and incompetent.

John Peterson said...

It looks like the RepugniCONS are up to their dirty, divisive hate-smears again.