9.18.2008

State of the Race: Is McCain In Trouble?

One of the unpleasant things you discover when you sit in major league baseball press boxes from time to time is that the press -- or at least the print media -- actually do not like close baseball games. A walk-off home run or a blown save means that they have to re-write their lead paragraph and perhaps their entire game story, leading to angry phone calls from their editors, and forcing them to work later than they might otherwise like to.

I was reminded of this when seeing this headline from Mark Halperin today:



A tight race? It certainly is a tight race, and has been all year. But this, of course, is not really the lead story. The story is that there has been a rather dramatic shift in the national polling toward Barack Obama in the past 2-4 days, coinciding with the Wall Street financial crisis. Some pundits will love this, since it gives them something fresh to talk about. But others, like those cynical beat writers in the Wrigley Field press box, will be annoyed, because it means that the the story they were telling us just a few days ago -- that the Obama campaign was in trouble, that Sarah Palin was the greatest thing since sliced bread -- has now been more or less invalidated.

Is this shift really a result of the economic crisis? I believe that's part of it, but I believe there are at least two other factors at work as well.

The first is that McCain's performance in the polls in the 7-10 days following the Republican convention did likely reflect a bounce of some kind, rather than a permanent shift in the state of the race. As I wrote just after the Republican convention concluded:

[We] should evaluate the robustness of the Republican bounce by how well it holds up to the currents of political time, rather than any specific date on the calendar. Specifically, I would want to see how the bounce holds up to the next major development of the campaign, particularly if it is a pro-Obama development. For example, let's say that Colin Powell endorses Obama tomorrow morning. I might expect a fairly strong reaction to this in the polls, not because the endorsement is all that important unto itself (most endorsements aren't), but because it displaces the GOP Convention as the most recent event of the campaign -- it pushes political time forward. And if the polls didn't move in reaction to such an endorsement, I'd think Democrats would have reason to worry.
The Wall Street crisis was the first major event of the post-convention news cycle -- the first thing that really tested the robustness of the Republican bounce. And what happened? The bounce proved to be about a mile wide but an inch deep. McCain consolidated elements of his base (evangelical conservatives) during the Republican convention; Obama did likewise with many Clinton Democrats during his convention.

But the two campaigns also had a tug-of-war over independent voters, with first Obama and then McCain winning them over. Independents, however, are notoriously fickle in their Presidential choices, and as the afterglow of the Republican convention wore off and was replaced by news about the economy, they reverted back to the equilibrium point they've been at all year, roughly splitting their votes between the two candidates (Quinnipaic has independents dividing their vote 46-45 as of this morning).

McCain's other problem is that Sarah Palin may no longer be an asset to the ticket; in fact, she may be a liability. Averaging the candidates' favorability scores across four recent polls -- as one should always try and do when looking at favorability numbers since they can vary greatly depending on question wording -- Palin now has the worst net scores among the four principals in the race:



Palin's average favorability score is now a +7 -- about 10 points behind Joe Biden's numbers. Perhaps more importantly, these numbers are 10-15 points behind where Palin's numbers were just a week or so ago. If voters come in not knowing very much about a candidate -- and the more they see of the candidate, the less they like of the candidate -- this is a major concern.

The McCain campaign may be in some trouble. We should learn over the next several days, as further polling results roll in, whether they are in a little trouble or a lot of trouble. I would certainly not rule out the latter possibility. There are now 46 days left until the election. The Obama campaign must feel like, if they can spend 35-40 of those days talking about the economy, they are in a very strong position. Excepting the three or four days surrounding the foreign policy debate in Mississippi next week, and the residual possibility of an unanticipated foreign policy crisis, the inertia of the campaign probably means that they will have the opportunity to do so.

Unless, of course, the McCain campaign can throw up some roadblocks and distractions. McCain's is a creative campaign -- more creative in many ways than the Obama campaign. As such, we should not discount the possibility of their finding an effective way to alter the momentum, perhaps one -- like their 'celebrity' critique of Obama -- that was difficult to envision in advance.

At the same time, the campaign cost itself a lot of credibility -- certainly with the media, and to a lesser extent with voters -- with some of their shenanigans of the past week, most notably Lipstickgate, "Thanks, but no thanks", and the Obama kindergarten commercial. To use a crude metaphor, the McCain campaign may have blown its wad too early. Organic shifts in the momentum of the race can and probably will still occur, but they may find it more difficult now to synthesize one.

699 comments

LibraryPolitico said...

I like how Halperin also gives "the week" to McCain. Dear lord.

s.b. said...

But wall street will recover significantly over the next 7 weeks, if not sooner and the American people will be reminded that the House and Senate are democratic controlled, and Joe Biden will keep reminding them that they should pay more taxes in order to be patriotic. ie This too shall pass.

Christopher said...

Yeah Halperin is the worst. Not even the McCain campaign would've given 'the week' to themselves. This was a shift in momentum to Obama/Biden. Now, we just have to wait until the debate to see how far the effect goes or whether it stops.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

The shift in polls due to Obama having a good last five news cycles, I believe, is being compounded by the natural deterioration of the convention bounce.

But have no fear, McCain's camp will come up with some completely outrageous ad to eat up some news time and we'll all forget what a putz McCain and his team are when it comes to choosing VP's, coming up with explanations as to what he means by fundamentals, and his sudden embrace of regulation.

AxmxZ said...

s.b.: Will Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Lehman Brothers likewise magically coalesce back into existence and stalwart solidity, O Great Guru?

Darío said...

Go Quinnipiac Bobcats!!!.

Mark Irish said...

IN Poll-

Obama 47
McCain 44

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080917/NEWS0502/80917076

Its Selzer, so the highest rated poll on this site.

Dick said...

@s.b.--Oh, but wall street very likely will not recover in a few weeks. We're talking about some of the largest debt issuers in the country being essentially bankrupt and then nationalized. Even if that were the extent of it, the followup conversations will surely last longer than two months--and I suspect that there are more bankruptcies and nationalizations to follow. Small crisis start with small asset holders failing, followed over time by larger firms failing; a major crisis starts with the larger firms collapsing and the smaller firms falling into the large gaping hole that was created.

p smith said...

Mccain is fucked. The likes of Steve Schmidt will be sat there trying to calculate how long to leave it before they can get away with running a non story distraction (Obama is an American hating pedophile etc).

As Nate points out, by blowing their wad too early, the media are just waiting for the McCain team to produce more lies and in the light of the economic crisis, there will be a pushback. For the next week, McCain has no choice but to actually attempt to discuss the economy. As we all know, he has nothing to offer us in that regard.

Obama needs to continue to tread the fine line between hammering McCain's impotence on this issue and also stating a positive economic message (tax cuts for the middle class to stimulate economic growth and greater regulation of Wall St).

The first debate next Friday will be make or break for McCain. He will go into it down 3-4 points in the national polls and I just wonder whether he might lose his temper and the election under pressure.

T-Bone said...

Did you know that McCain is older than sliced bread? I'm serious. It's absolutely true.

JohnNYC said...

Mark seems like a nice enough guy, but he's an example of Washington nepotism if ever there was one. His father has been a fixture of the Democratic Party Establishment in DC ever since he earned his place in the Party's Pantheon by getting placed on Richard Nixon's infamous "Enemy's List".

In this case, he is either just oblivious (always a possiblity by the sloppy standards of what passes for "journalism" on MSNBC) or he is trying to show that he is not on the payroll of the Obama campaign after all.

Catherine said...

Don't worry. Once it becomes apparent the election has swung back Obama's way, the press will start beating up on him the way they've been pounding McCain for the last couple of weeks in order to keep it close. Do you know how much money they made in advertising revenue off of Bush v. Gore?

Democrat or Republican, there's one thing I think we can all agree on--the press in this country is fundamentally broken.

Countdown to major Obama slamming in the so-called "liberal media" begins immediately...

El Cid said...

If nothing else, this should be a reminder to all how important to elections unpredicted events are.

(And yes, people were long predicting a financial crisis, but not with specificity on the week or day.)

Because of my beliefs on what would actually be better for the country, its people, and the world, I hope the landscape continues to favor Obama.

But you never know what will happen or what stunt or gaffe will be generated.

I'm Liverpool 'til I die said...

Finally some good state polls in the past 24 hours.

CNN with their Ohio and Florida number, Selzer with Obama lead in Indiana, and Survey USA with a big Obama lead in New Mexico. Although I must say this Survey USA has been all over the place so I am not sure how to interpret it, but none the less it is good to see some state polling coinciding with the big swing in the national polls.

Toby said...

An international crisis cannot be ruled out.

Russia has met its goals for the moment & the Georgians have been thoroughly smacked down. So I think the Bear will sit and enjoy its gains for a while.

That leaves Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan as the possible sources of trouble. This last is most likely. An affray on the Pakistan-Afghan border involving American and Afghan troops against the Pakistan regular army is a real possibility.

A second possibility is a major terrorist attack on the US itself (not likely) or on a US installation overseas (happened in Yemen two days ago, but no US personnel were affected). Not sure if the capability exists in Al Qaeda to rock the US this way.

Another possibility is a third party attack, maybe involving Israel. An Israeli attack on Iran could happen, yet there is no rational reason right now - they have a new, untried Prime Minister who needs time to settle in.

So, the international situation is quiet right now, but who knows? A major incident would be bad for Obama. If people feel the country strong leadership in the international arena, McCain is the natural choice.

Against that, the Diageo/ Hotline polls shows 40% of people believe that the economy is the priority right now. Only 8% believe it is national security.

Denise said...

When all the connections between Obama and Fannie Mae are revealed, he'll drop like a rock.

McCain tried to stop this nonsense in 2005 and the dems wouldn't let him. Read Barney Frank's stupid remark.

Darío said...

The economy is in bankrupt.
And you talk about Georgia and Russia?.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Blowing one's wad" has crude connotations now in some circles, but it actually dates back many years, referring to firearms.

As for McCain being in trouble -- somewhat. But as I said when Obama looked to be in trouble, it's too early to draw grand conclusions. Obama fans shouldn't get complacent over a swing of a few days.

Obliterati said...

McCain didn't do himself any favors last night by apparently confusing the Prime Minister of Spain with some communist dictator in South America.

The debates are going to be interesting...

cskendrick said...

Since the bottom 95% get tax cuts under the Obama plan, naturally that plan is unforgivable to Republicans.

The affronted 5% might have to sell one of their houses.

Of course, if they got a jumbo loan to own the home, that might have to be the case regardless.

(I hope no one here thought predatory subprime lending practices was the only problem.)

Charles M. Kozierok said...

The Republicans are also feeling the heat as a result of their incredibly stupid decision to try to demonize the media. Some of them have decided they've had enough of that, along with the lying and attempts to run away from their own record.

Darío said...

"The fundamentals of our economy are strong".

Ignorant.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Since the bottom 95% get tax cuts under the Obama plan, naturally that plan is unforgivable to Republicans.

The affronted 5% might have to sell one of their houses."

Obama's problem is that the Republicans are succeeding in convincing people that Obama would raise their taxes. Look at the polls and Obama is failing big time here.

AxmxZ said...

Performing some quick calculations, we see that Obama, who is currently at +1.7 at RCP, has been averaging gains of 46 basis points a day for the last ten days. How long before he runs into his natural ceiling?

miceelf said...

Forgive me if I'm a little dense, but doesn't this trend at least slightly affect your overall estimates of the outcome?

Charlie said...

It's going to get ugly.

Also, Halperin's a dummy.

markymark said...

Halperin almost seems to be going out of his way to not have a liberal bias right now.

I think what has happened this week is the deterioration of the McCain bouce, coupled with a bad week, giving Obama an edge, back to something like what it was back in pre convention times.

The problem with McCain's camp now is that the Palin pick begins to look panicky, and most attacks on Obama can be mitigated to some extent by throwing it back to Palin. The McCain camp seem to need something totally new. But how many times can they change there gameplan?

I think actually thats what has been most impressive about the Obama campaign, hardly ever have they been forced off the plan. It might not always seem to be working, but they have never stepped away from there gameplan. McCain has been all over the place from time to time. In that way its an interesting mirror of the 2000 campaign. Gore seemed to be constantly changing the plan, Bush seemed to stick to his guns no matter what. I wonder if thats any kind of omen or any kind of a way of reading theses things? (Incidentally, I think that was the worst thing about the Palin pick, it fenced off the inexperienced attack, just think how useful that might be about now? Can you trust the economy to a guy in his 4th year in the US Senate? Weelll could you trust it in the hands of a 2 year Governor of Alaska?)

AxmxZ said...

Who wants to bet Nate's model will put Obama back into lead today?

McFloat said...

"But wall street will recover significantly over the next 7 weeks, if not sooner and the American people will be reminded that the House and Senate are democratic controlled, and Joe Biden will keep reminding them that they should pay more taxes in order to be patriotic. ie This too shall pass."

While it is possible that the market may recover somewhat, the fundamentals -- yes the fundamentals -- are in deep trouble. Any talk that doesn't address the fact that we're in a "once in a century crisis", and, subsequently, how to get out of it, is quite frankly not in the best interest of our nation. Yes, this turmoil may pass, but we'll have to pay a heavy toll to get through it.

Billy said...

That's a great point Catherine. I noticed the same thing. I fully expect that media to resume pounding Obama any day now.

AxmxZ said...

mcfloat: Also, as someone very clever indeed once said, "In the long run, we're all dead."

SHF said...

To all those slamming Halperin, I wholeheartedly agree. He is such a hack & media tool... Him giving the week to McCain leaves me speechless.

Also to put another shiny object out there for the MSM to chase, I suspect Rev. Wright will be making a comeback in 3, 2, 1.

And for all of McCain's foreign policy expertise, he doesn't seem to know Prime Minister Zapatero from Spain is a NATO ally from Europe. In a Spanish language interview, he kept equating Spain with Latin American thugs, even when the interviewer kept saying 'No, Spain in Europe.' Between him & Palin, foreign policy will be a bit like pin the tail on the donkey.

Obliterati said...

SurveyUSA Georgia: M - 57, O - 41

I wonder why the Obama campaign ever thought they could be competetive in GA?

Dash Riprock said...

Bush/Cheney/McCain/Palin will come up with an international crisis if they have to do it themselves. I would guess in the next week or two. I think the Georgia thing was cooked up by Bush in cahoots with Putin.

Obama must continue to focus on the economy. He must not take the bait into the culture war.

Anyone who thinks the stock market will recover in the next two weeks doesn't know what they are talking about.

Just take Lehman Brothers. They are going to default on 600 billion dollars of debt. That means the lenders are left holding the bag on that. It's a ripple effect. We're seeing Morgan Stanley and even Goldman Sachs wobbling. The underpinnings of the mortgage and credit markets are very shaky. The next great crisis may be the consumer credit market. These things will all need to shake out. That will take at the very least 6 months or so. Perhaps longer.

Darío said...

Quinnipiac works with Wall Street Journal, so it isn´t liberal bias.

markymark said...

Does anyone seriously think there is too much play left in Rev Wright? I think actually one thing that the long primary campaign may havedone is tire out all the none stories from it.

Billy Ayers is the one story I wonder if it might get any traction if someone wanted to throw dirt at Obama, but I also kind of think thats a none story, or someone would have picked it up seriously earlier? I mean the right wing media have been pushing that story for a while and noone in the MSM has picked it up yet.

tomthress said...

"When all the connections between Obama and Fannie Mae are revealed, he'll drop like a rock.

McCain tried to stop this nonsense in 2005 and the dems wouldn't let him. Read Barney Frank's stupid remark."

In some ways, I think that the bigger problem for McCain isn't the economy, it's that he's been called out in the press as a liar(the "liar, liar, pants on fire" meme).

I think that people's reflexive response to the economy is to favor Obama, because he's the Democrat, but I think that McCain could have made inroads here. The quote above from Denise has a strong element of truth to it, and, from my perspective, Obama's actually been fairly disappointing in terms of offering specific solutions. In fact, while the topline polling numbers have been unambiguously turning in Obama's direction the past 2-3 days, there's arguably been a hint of a trend toward voters actually trusting McCain more than Obama on the economy. For example, Rasmussen actually has McCain scoring higher on the economy than Obama (47-45), although Obama has gained 3 points in the tracker over the past about three days and they're now all tied (48-48).

So it's not clear to me that McCain couldn't "win" on the economy. I think that McCain's problem is that if he tries to blame this on the Democratic Congress and Obama personally, I'm not sure that the press is going to buy what he's going to be trying to sell. He cried "wolf" (or "pig") too often too soon and I think it might hurt his chances now to take advantage of a real opportunity to debate the issues.

Greg said...

AxmxZ said...

Who wants to bet Nate's model will put Obama back into lead today?

Looking at the National Tracker, and knowing that Nate's model is still is tuned to be a little on the relaxed side, I'd guess a very slight McCain lead in today's update. Obama takes the lead tomorrow.


(Not the arch-conservative Greg that has been posting recently)

FloridaGOP said...

@Denise
When all the connections between Obama and Fannie Mae are revealed, he'll drop like a rock.
McCain tried to stop this nonsense in 2005 and the dems wouldn't let him. Read Barney Frank's stupid remark.

I may be one of the few on this blog that Obama and the democrats may be vulnerable on the the points you make. I do not think they will "drop like a rock" but it should hurt a little,

Democrats Dodd and Obama received the most contributions from Lobbyists representing Fannie , Freddie, and Lehmann.
In 2005 McCain warned and Barney Frank called hism out and said that Freddie and Fannie were is great shape.

Should at least be good ads. We will see the effect. Right now everything thinks the meltdown is McCain and the Republican's fault.

Obliterati said...

Wright, Ayers and Rezko are done. If there was anything interesting there, the Republicans would have already used it.

I suppose Wright might come up with some lunatic statement, but would anyone even notice at this point?

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Wright is another area where Palin neutered a line of attack for McCain. Because her church and preacher are equally nutty.

Even if Wright scares voters more than Palin's preacher, far more people already know about the former than the latter.

AxmxZ said...

koz: Yeah, if the right brings out Wright, the left will bring out "God punishes Jews through Palestinian terrorists." That's bound to go down smoothly in Florida

Overrated said...

Finally, Nate! I was waiting for you to join the herd in piling on the McSame "now has no chance" meme this week. With the financial crisis taking front and center it is clear McSame is toast. Secretly I am hoping Wall Street continues to plummet and the financial crisis worsens as I know this can only help Obama. Folks, the ends justify the means here. We must have Obama in the White House. Registering everyone we can and pounding the class warfare rhetoric are two sure paths to victory. And now that the calvary has arrived with Barbara Streisand and other Hollywood stars raising 11 million, we are going to beat McSame like a rented mule! (how ironic that an ass is our national symbol) Who says its over when the fat lady sings? The fun has just begun! Thanks Barbara and Leonardo for your continued support. Its stars like you that can help us make this evil and broken America good again!
Obama/Biden '08

Darío said...

Overrated, you support Obama now?.

Adam said...

FloridaGOP:

I agree that a line of attack based around financial industry contributions could hurt Obama somewhat, but I don't think it necessarily should. I mean, in how many business sectors is Obama beating literally everyone that ever ran for president? Considering that the bulk of his contributions come from individual donors, I happen to consider that to be a positive result for Obama. It says to me that the people who are at the forefront of our private economic institutions trust him to enact the proper policies.

Jared said...

"and the residual possibility of an unanticipated foreign policy crisis,"


Cue up the capture of Osama bin Laden. (I know, I know, I'm cynical...)

s.b. said...

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae always were government institutions designed to support US homeowners in times of economic crisis. They have been woefully mismanged, and since they are esentially government owned they need to be regulated as such. However, Obama is the #2 recipient of money from the mismanagers FM and FM with only 3 years in the senate. That's quite a record.

McCain is right. The fundamentals of the US economy are sound. The GDP went up 3% in the last quarter. 95% of working Americans are employed. 90% of Americans pay their mortgages on time. Home ownership is at an all time high. Ther is no recession. The most irresponible in fact downright wreckless thing a nominee for POTUS could have done this week is start talking about the depression and how bad things are, when they aren't and there is nothing like the depression happening.

The stock market is not the economy and it will rebound. it already is. Commodities and bonds have gone up. Banking stocks are not the US economy. They just aren't.

People who made bad investments with companies offering frauduletn loans to people who couldnt pay for them will lose some of their savings. It's called the free market. It's a good thing. AIG should not have been given a 2 year loan, it should have been told to sell its assets. It has been nationalized and that made the stock marlet even less happy, but its still not the US economy.

Stocks will rebound to a large degree. The US economy is fundmentally sound and John McCain was right. he was also right that AIG should not have been given a 2 year loan as a fed takover of 79.9%of their holdings.

What does Obama want to do? Nationalize more and increase your taxes. He thinks taxpayers should pay for bad investments and fraudulent lending practices. Those CEo's, who donate to Obama's campagin will still be collecting their paychecks will ordinary American spay and nothing has been done to assure the stock market it can funtion without interference.

AxmxZ said...

overrated: LOL.

FloridaGOP said...

@Obliterati
Wright, Ayers and Rezko are done. If there was anything interesting there, the Republicans would have already used it.
I suppose Wright might come up with some lunatic statement, but would anyone even notice at this point?

This stuff came out in the Spring, and everyone on both sides says that no one except partisans pay attention until after the conventions. Is that conventional wisdom wrong?
I would likely start a simple ad on "cling to their guns and religion." I am amazed when I reference that, that so few know what I am even talking about.

Jason P. said...

Right on about inventing an international crisis. Remember how George H.W. Bush invaded Somali in his lame duck months? I suspect something similar.

davelondon said...

First a scouser, then someone quoting Keynes 538 is very international these days.

Alex S. said...

If McCain is able to get any credibility on the economic sector the Obama campaign will use the most effective weapon against McCain - Keating Five. It´s already bubbling under the radar, just a matter of time, and necessity, until it surfaces.

Obama has found his tone now. I was a little critical before, but he has found the right mix of anger, sarcasm (not cynicism!), and his old change rhetorics.
The McCain campaign is going to try to fish in muddy waters, but the debates will keep the race on the track that they are now. The last chance to turn it around comes after the debates, during the few weeks between the final debate and election day.

J.R. said...

Look for McCain's campaign to divert attention towards the Palin e-mail hack with a clever pivot off any hints that she may have acted unethically:

A) It's just like you libruls to take advantage of poor Sarah during this emotionally-trying invasion of her privacy...
and
B) How do we know Obama's campaign isn't behind this?

It's the converse of Swift-Boating: turning a weakness into a strength!

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Denise - First we were told to wait for Wright, Ayers, and Rezko to finally come out. It did. Pfft. Now you want us to go down that road again with Fannie? What are you waiting for? Why don't you expose them now?

It's as dumb as the Karl Rove song and dance that Obama shouldn't attack anymore.

FloridaGOP said...

@Adam,
Thanks for the reasoned response. You may be correct. There are always arguments on both sides of an issue.
I think it is dangerous to be seen as taking contributions from the very companies that just failed and were bailed out.
McCain is on the list but way down. Being at the top can not be a good thing, and if McCain pushes it hard enough, Obama will have to respond, either with his own ad, or in the debates.

pygmy_owl said...

I acknowledge that this is a progressive journal, but I think the view on the Fannie/Freddie connections and the Community Reinvestment Act is sufficiently covered here. Obviously, decide for yourselves.... but those of you who may be swayed by the wingnuttery of some posters here may be heartened to read that most financial blogs do not even come close to suggesting that this has anything to do with regulation of Fannie and Freddie back in 2005.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_crisis

pygmy_owl said...

What I meant to say: I acknowledge that the link I'm about to give (which I give above, and here again: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_crisis) is from a progressive journal....

zzyzx said...

I posted something similar yesterday but I feel like the polls have been "wanting" to go to about Obama +4 throughout the election season. Also Obama has found it easier to push the polls in his direction. The European trip and the DNC both made the election come close to being a blowout which forced McCain to work hard to get the polls back in his direction.

Unfortunately for him, he's shot a lot of his ammunition already. He's pissed a previously sympathetic press off and impressions of him being a serial liar and Palin being both a liar and kind of clueless are starting to sink in, which limits his future moves.

I'm sure he'll come up with something, but he'll have to use whatever it is in mid September instead of late October, which will make his job harder again.

Alex S. said...

By the way, I have just caught a new poll on the New Mexico Senate race. I wonder how the economy will alter the situation in the Congress. Now there is a chance to run a heavily populist anti-incumbent race. I already thought that the pick of Sarah Palin will give the Oregon and Minnesota seat to the Democrats. And I think the seat of Sen. Dole is in danger now. The Democrats just need to get ahead in one other senate race I think, either Musgrove vs. Wicker, or Lunsford vs. McConnell.

MrInsight22 said...

You overlook that McCain has improved by a point since the last national poll in August before the conventions by Dem-leaning Quinnipiac (their OH and PA polls are more in the Dem direction than other pollsters) and that McCain does better among independents and men than he did in Quinnipiac's August poll.

The Daily Kos/Research 2000 national tracker is worthless (except to observe trends) because it has 53% women instead of 51%, a 9-point Dem ID edge instead of the 5 or 6 point Dem ID edge everyone else now uses,and has a 13% Latino component even though Latinos only make up about 7-8% of actual voters (despite being 15% of the population).

FloridaGOP said...

Let me make my position clear. I have always considered McCain the underdog, I believe he has been hurt this week and is in worse shape.

Having said that, many comments by democrats seem to imply that there are no arguments against Obama that can be effective. In Politics, there are always arguments. I am just providing some examples for those who think there are none.

KS. said...

@overrated - Those Dems sure are a bunch of f---ing traitors, that's for sure! Openly hoping for the downfall of our great nation! They'd rather lose a war/economy than pretend nothing is wrong!!

Voice of the Midwest said...

Keep an eye on the week to week polling through the conventions and until October 4 for the states of NV, IN, and WV. I am noticing a dramatic shift in each of these states when the economy takes center stage.

I call it the Barney Smith/Smith Barney Effect. As you know, Barney Smith was a former Republican who spoke at the Democratic National Convention and hoped for an America that "Valued Barney Smith over Smith Barney". As $900 billion is dished out to Wall Street to save their necks, what do these voters see?

They see jobs heading overseas to benefit the companies who have money in these bailed out entities. They see foreclosure notices from the banks protected by Washington and still traded on Wall Street. They see $4.00 a gallon gas, they see dwindling 401Ks, and very few options for their kids post high school.

Populism is tied to the pocketbooks in states like NV, IN, and WV. For that matter, NC, GA, NM, and CO.

In 1992, the Clinton campaign message was "It's the economy, stupid". In 2008, Obama has tied into a very effective message that reaches these voters: "It is the economy and the GOP thinks you are stupid".

The Palin choice and the attempt to turn this into a culture war by Steve Schmidt and Co. after the convention was a roll of the dice. They did not anticipate the free market to turn sour on their effort to distract from the overwhelming issue of the economy.

The McCain campaign may be forced to run ads in these states dragging out the Obama quote (taken out of context, mind you) that rural folks are frustrated and seek comfort in hunting or faith in tough times. It is another risk that will work for a bit, but not take away the misery of this economy through election day for these voters.

Mark said...

McCain's is a creative campaign -- more creative in many ways than the Obama campaign. As such, we should not discount the possibility of their finding an effective way to alter the momentum, perhaps one -- like their 'celebrity' critique of Obama -- that was difficult to envision in advance.

I think the creative destruction of the economic crisis and its demand for change will overwhelm any creative destruction attempted by the McCain campaign.

Obliterati said...

@FloridaGOP:

I get what you're saying, but it seems to me that a swiftboat-style attack on Obama using Ayers or Wright would be drowned out right now by all the other media noise.

Remember when the Right tried to make a huff about Rezko after McCain's "7 houses" stumble? It never got traction because there was too much noise, and it just became a wasted shot.

Just my totally unprofessional opinion, but it seems to me that those kinds of attacks work better during slow news cycles, or when the user is not already playing defense. Neither case is true right this minute.

boobot said...

Even without the Prospect link the connection between Obama and the current financial crisis is extremely strained logic. Obama has virtually no oversight into the workings of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, yet because individuals who work for those companies privately donated to his campaign he's responsible for the current crisis? I think even the economically illiterate will see through that one.

Besides which, it's fairly easy to see that the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac collapse is a symptom of the current crisis, not its cause. It's certainly fair to say that not every Democrat has clean hands in this mess, but it's a dazzling leap of intellectual dishonesty to attempt to lay blame entirely at the feet of Democrats.

Scott said...

The +16 for McCain out of SUSA is good for McCain, but if there's anything Obama can take from it:

- The polling was done as the economic crisis was unfolding, not after we saw all of the fallout

- He strongly underperformed among young voters

Still, a nice result for Mac.

Blame said...

Predicting Obama is easy. How many times have we screamed for him to do something. Wait a week or two & he gets round to it. Not the quickest reflexes, but he eventualy gets the point & gets it right.

McCain is a different can of worms. He reacts fast & hard. Then again perhaps God understands his decisions. I certainly don't.

He broke the first rule with Palin - "do no harm". He chose a VP in the middle of a developing scandle!

He also broke the rules on Negative Campaigning - do it hard, but do it late.

Then again, attacking the press & denying them access to Palin. The mind just boggles. What does he do for a encore - beat up a few voters?

When they do the movie of McCain's campaign it will be a comody. There will never be a movie for Obama's because nothing happened - he just got elected.

Stuart said...

Intrade now has a state by state map based on their trading on their front page. If you select "leaning" Obama is at 278 EV: Kerry+IA+CO+NH+NV. VA is at 50-49.

WI, which was close in Rass, is NOT close in Intrade 31M-74O. MI is at 35M-67O

Top level is O51.1 M48.6

MakingTufteCry said...
This post has been removed by the author.
InkStain said...

"Who wants to bet Nate's model will put Obama back into lead today?"

I'll take that bet. It takes a lot to move the inertia in the tracker. A few more days.

johnsonct5 said...

What does a pundit have to do to lose their job?

Halperin is a hack. He reminds me of the kid that is not athletic but nonetheless wants to be on the team. So he becomes the team manager and carries all the gear for the team, never realizing that he's still not a member because they just make fun of him when he's not around.

Eric said...

This is important for all of us trying to find tipping points in a tight election. I personally think Obama's is Virginia over Colorado if he can hold the blue states.

The numbers will look screwy both here and RCP for Virginia because of one poll. That poll is bunk and should be completely trashed. NATE, remove the CNU Virginia poll!!! Here's the main reason (directly from their poll): Only 3 percent of the CNU survey participants were under 30 years old; such voters made up 16 percent of the state's voter turnout in the 2004 election, according to Election Day surveys at polling places statewide. Ten percent of those surveyed by CNU identified themselves as African American; the black turnout in Virginia in 2004 was 22 percent of the total vote. If McCain won the white vote 60/40 and would lose the AA vote 90/10, then this oll would flip 11 points or so. Obama would be ahead a couple points instead of down 9. This is simply if they went according to the true electorate. Not even taking into account that A the AA vote will be higher than 22% in 2004, much less 10% and B) The youth vote is heavy for Obama and measured at 3% in this poll. The oll shouldn't be discounted, it should be completely removed. Totally throws off the true math. Nate, you're a statistics guy from Chicago, I know you know I'm right here.

InkStain said...

"I think that people's reflexive response to the economy is to favor Obama, because he's the Democrat, but I think that McCain could have made inroads here. The quote above from Denise has a strong element of truth to it, and, from my perspective, Obama's actually been fairly disappointing in terms of offering specific solutions. In fact, while the topline polling numbers have been unambiguously turning in Obama's direction the past 2-3 days, there's arguably been a hint of a trend toward voters actually trusting McCain more than Obama on the economy. For example, Rasmussen actually has McCain scoring higher on the economy than Obama (47-45), although Obama has gained 3 points in the tracker over the past about three days and they're now all tied (48-48)."

If independents care about the economy, and the economy is a split decision, then that means independents are split. And McCain can't win splitting the independents.

"What does a pundit have to do to lose their job?"

People stop caring about them.

MakingTufteCry said...

What does Obama want to do? Nationalize more and increase your taxes. He thinks taxpayers should pay for bad investments...

s.b., Didn't the Bush administration just nationalize stuff and use taxpayer money for it? I didn't realize that Obama is already running the country :)

And, when you you say "increase your taxes", exactly who are you talking to?

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Scott - The other nugget I took from the GA poll was that 88% had made up their mind already. Too late now for Obama there to try anything. But thanks for sharing.

Jocelyn Testes-Harder said...

put your finger on the pulse
of america at filthyrichmond

Shap said...

Overrated-

I have to disagree with you that Obama is the better candidate in this election.

Clearly Sen. John S. McCain III is the most qualified to serve our country, as he served our country in a war, and was a POW. He will protect us from terrorist-sponsoring countries like Iran, Syria, and Spain. He knows the threat of the Russian bear, and he has dispatched Palin the Hunter to kill it. He understands that the fundamentals of this economy are stronger than ever, and that $12 trillion debt is an inconsequential, peripheral detail. He understands the threat of lobbyists to Washington, which is why the employs them as a majority of his staff (keep your enemies close!)

McCain/Palin 'O8

zzyzx said...

GOP - I'm not as overconfident as many. Right now things look pretty good for Obama but McCain has shown that he can attack in ways that are effective in the short term. The problem I think he has though is that these attacks have diminishing returns and he might be forced to use some of them in the next week which is earlier than he would want.

"Remember when the Right tried to make a huff about Rezko after McCain's "7 houses" stumble? "

Yeah, that was a stumble. There was a time for that but instead they just fired it at random.

Does McCain have a long term plan at all? He spent a month defining Obama as a celebrity and planned to have a convention with the theme Not Ready '08 and then threw that away for Palin. Right now I know what the Democrats' themes are - Obama is change we can believe in and McCain is more of the same. What are the Republican's theme for themselves - I guess it's "reformers" now - and against Obama?

Trevor said...

Obama should just be happy that not a single GA poll has shown him doing more than 1% worse than Kerry did (18 point loss;) the state has slid right faster than almost anywhere else due to the old Dem machine that produced Carter/Nunn/Zell before he became conservative/etc. dying off, and conservative yuppies moving into the state.

Vernon said...

It's pretty clear there are two types of people in this country: Those who revel in the bad times our nation experiences when they think it helps their candidate and those who want their country to do well at all times. Naturally, those who enjoy these financial problems are mostly the same as those who blame America for all the problems in the world. They have no moral center, only subjective truth that tells them they can do or say whatever it takes to "help their guy win". They're the people who opposed the Vietnam war, damaging our nation in the process and who drive Mercedes while decrying others for their lack of care for the poor. It's interesting to see the differences in who supports which of these two candidates. The far left, the frenzied masses of Europe, Hollywood's elite (Lindsey Lohan, Matt Damon, etc.), and all the usual hate America crowd are on one side. On the other side you have... Americans. Those who haven't bought into the celebrity culture of Obama regard him, fairly or not, with suspicion. They are the people of "flyover country", the people who never get a poll call, never plaster their cars with bumper stickers telling everyone else who they have to support to "be cool". They give to the needy, live their lives in an effort to do right, and... they vote. Consistently. They are both Democrats and Republicans. And they don't elect far left socialists. You do the math.
See you in November.

Eric said...

Ben Stein (Ferris Bueller's Day Off) who is an econimcs expert and hardcore Republican was on CNN yesterday and said basically the only reason he won't vote Obama this time i because he's pro-life. He agrees with the Dems on taxes and thinks McCain/Palin are clueless. He basically said he wishes they could get locked in a room with someone like Warren Buffett to talk some sense into them, but buffett is for Obama. He completely admitted the Republicans are dead wrong about taxes this time in this environment and he has no idea why they won't pivot.

MrInsight22 said...

NH-based ARG was biased in Obama's favor in NH's primary (like almost everyone else). Today's ARG poll has McCain ahead by 3 now in NH, a 4-point gain since their last NH poll on August 20.

McCain's 16-point lead in GA accoding to SUSA shows how silly Obama was to spend like $3 million on ads there. Bizarre creep Bob Barr is at 1% in his home state.

Selzer is very accurate in its home state of Iowa and very Dem-biased in its forays into IN and MI where it has given Obama some of his biggest leads of any pollster.

The Portland Tribune Fox poll today in OR gives Obama a 10-point lead in OR, which I think is accurate. OR is not a battleground. WA is closer this year then OR.

William Ockham said...

The election won't be that close. Obama will win and the only thing in doubt is the size of his victory. I'm putting this prediction in a comment so that I can point you all to it on Nov. 5.

Obama will win by at least 7 points more than his national poll lead two weeks before the election (unless he's already ahead by 10 points by then). This will happen because the remaining undecideds will break his way and the +3% due to his ground game that the polls are missing. Undecideds will break his way because the economy sucks.

Best case for McCain: he polls 45% and third-party candidates get 5%.

Best case for Obama: he gets 57%, McCain 40% and third-party 3%.

Likely outcome: Obama 54%, McCain 43%, Others 3%.

I'll get back to you on the electoral college outcomes, but I don't see McCain being able to break 200 unless he gets very lucky.

Matthew H said...

MrInsight22 said...
.
.
.
The Daily Kos/Research 2000 national tracker is worthless (except to observe trends) because it has 53% women instead of 51%,


That's correct, about 53% of the voting populace is women. Men are more likely to die in their teens, be felons, or just not care.


a 9-point Dem ID edge instead of the 5 or 6 point Dem ID edge everyone else now uses,

Then "everyone else" is wrong. Gallup hasn't released their latest, but they're probably at 9 now, same as they were before the conventions. Other than Rasmussen, who's using a 5-6 point Dem edge?

and has a 13% Latino component even though Latinos only make up about 7-8% of actual voters (despite being 15% of the population).

But they're about 12% of the registered voters. So if they're going RV instead of LV, that would fit.

Rodger said...

You do great work here, but this post has an error. The debate in Mississippi next week is on domestic policy.

The foreign policy debate is last, on October 15, at Hofstra in NY.

quantman said...

Folks, MORE than a week ago, I had warned everyone that there was a major mess in the financial markets that was about to unravel, AND that this would impact the campaign.

People here pooh-poohed me! Some asked about the relevance, others called me a scare monger.

Well folks! What do you say now??

I had cautioned everyone to be careful with their own investments more than a week ago, and well the markets are down MORE than 10% since.

This is NOT done yet!

I think there is an invisible hand at work here that will bring things to a head in the next few weeks, right before the elections.

My only hope is that the world markets and world economy is not so fractured that it takes years, vs. months, to put the Bush war/taxcuts deficit spending, dollar weakness combination of Humpty Dumpty back together again.

MARK my words, the longer this goes, the greater the loss of confidence the world will have in our country's debt!!

ONCE that confidence in our debt is damaged beyond the tipping point, we are screwed. WHY? Because, we CANNOT under any circumstances fund our own debt!

The only way then will be pay foreigners higher rates of interest for our debt, which will royally screw our economy.

WATCH out folks! PLEASE!

presidentraygun said...

Nate, You made me visualize McCain "blowing his wad" I will never forgive you.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"NH-based ARG was biased in Obama's favor in NH's primary (like almost everyone else). Today's ARG poll has McCain ahead by 3 now in NH, a 4-point gain since their last NH poll on August 20."

This simply shows that ARG polls are useless. McCain is not going to carry NH in this overall electoral environment.

Real Joe said...

some crazy people here

ROFL

Shap said...

Eric-

Ben Stein is a douche. He cried when Paris Hilton made fun of the McCain celebrity commercials.

The man has no talent, and is only famous because of a funny cameo role in an 80's movie.

Politically, he's rotten to the core.

Real Joe said...

great site Nate & Sean

big fan !

Matthew H said...

Eric said...
Ben Stein (Ferris Bueller's Day Off) who is an econimcs expert and hardcore Republican was on CNN yesterday and said basically the only reason he won't vote Obama this time i because he's pro-life.


Richard Nixon's speechwriter said that?! On top of the former TNR editor in chief going Obama.

As Ben Stein would say: wow.

I'm Liverpool 'til I die said...

I don't know about you Republicans, but our country can't get more socialist than it has become right now. If any of you on the left or right think that the next President whomever it might be won't have to raise taxes you guys are kidding yourselves. You can't just spend, spend, spend, and cut taxes and then go and provide 300+ billions in subsidized loans for corporate bailouts.

This has been the most reckless administration and congress I have ever seen! Talk about monday morning quarterbacking.

Eric said...

MrInsight22 said...
NH-based ARG was biased in Obama's favor in NH's primary (like almost everyone else). Today's ARG poll has McCain ahead by 3 now in NH, a 4-point gain since their last NH poll on August 20.


ARG is close to worthless. 1/2 of thier polls are completely absurd. Not as bad as that Virginia poll from CNU, but shouldn't be included. So much demand for polling is making certain outfits release lots of polls. Many of them are worthless. They're not measuring the states properly. The demographics have to be measured correctly or they're wasting our time.

zzyzx said...

Rodger - they flipped the debate topics.

Jon said...

NEW Polls

**American Research Group**

Florida
McCain 46
Obama 46

New Hampshire
McCain 48
Obama 45

South Carolina
McCain 59
Obama 37

Nebraska
McCain 60
Obama 34

**Survey USA**

New Mexico
Obama 52
McCain 44

Georgia
McCain 57
Obama 41

**Indianapolis Star/Selzer**
9/14-16/08, 600 Likely Voters

Indiana
Obama 47
McCain 44
Barr 2
Nader 1


If more Indiana polls show a close race, then Obama investing in the state won't seem so far-fetched after all. Obama needs to write off Georgia, unfortunately. New Mexico looks strong for Obama, and Florida is still very competitive. Obama needs to make the trek up to New Hampshire because its very close and McCain has akways been competitive there. Those 4 electoral votes will be crucial!

InkStain said...

"The Daily Kos/Research 2000 national tracker is worthless (except to observe trends) because it has 53% women instead of 51%, a 9-point Dem ID edge instead of the 5 or 6 point Dem ID edge everyone else now uses,and has a 13% Latino component even though Latinos only make up about 7-8% of actual voters (despite being 15% of the population)."

You keep saying women should be 51%, but I've never seen any evidence about that. Do you have a link or source? I was under the impression it was higher.

MATT J. H. said...

So Obama gets a little swing in the polls back to pre-convention levels, relax guys were still a long way from November. Maybe Obama takes a small electoral edge, we still have debates and 6 weeks of campaigning. Don't get your pee all hot.

Just last week Palin was a rock star, Obama was a weak incompetent, and McCain had all the momentum. How things change.

Obama had been on defence all summer, and his poll numbers were sagging on a weekly basis. Supporters like myself were enraged with his lack of fight. Indeed, the biggest thing we have seen this past week is Obama's new tougher tone, thank god.

It appears Obama has finally got in the game, and is on offense on a daily basis, this is very good. It will be much harder for McCain to manipulate the narrative with Obama not allowing McCain too.

The biggest shift, Obama owns the economy, that narrative has settled in. The media believes it, the Obama camp believes it, and now the voters are starting to believe it. If this belief settles in among the voters, this election is over.

Vernon said...

Guys, let be honest. The Palin "developing scandal" is going to result in nothing. The so-called investigation is already falling apart. The jerk tasered a kid. You go ahead and defend him. And just because the left controls the media (come on, does anyone dispute this any more?) they have been successful in tearing her down over the past couple of weeks. There has been no comparable effort to look into Obama's past. You have instead seen the media running interference like they did for FDR and his wheelchair and JFK and his various romantic entanglements. Obama is "their guy" and they abandoned any pretense of objectivity. So now the polls all reflect the constant bombardment of the media against Palin. Drudge had an interesting comparison yesterday using ABC News' Blotter and there were 24 references to Palin, 2 for McCain, 1 for Biden and NONE for Obama. And ABC is one of the more objective alphabet news companies. MSNBC didn't even pretend to be during the primaries. How will the backlash against the ridiculous media coverage be? It depends on the success of the right-wing 527s to further define Obama. If Americans were truly comfortable with him, he'd be up 10+% after this financial crisis. The fact that he's not is very telling, IMHO.

Overrated said...

Shap said...
"Overrated-
I have to disagree with you that Obama is the better candidate in this election."

Shap - You are the devil. Palin is a witch! Burn her at the stake! As for McCain, he is an old coot that has lost his mind and wants to start wars, nothing else. RepubliCons are money-grubbing idiots that rarely attend Harvard. You are going to lose this election and I will be laughing as gov't finally fixes all the ills of this fallen nation. We need Big Gov't now!
Obama/Biden 08

relyzinger said...
This post has been removed by the author.
DaWolf said...

[i]In some ways, I think that the bigger problem for McCain isn't the economy, it's that he's been called out in the press as a liar(the "liar, liar, pants on fire" meme).[/i]

John McCains Straight Lie Express

bpulliam said...

It's hard for me to fathom how a candidate who has EVERYTHING against him and remains within striking distance in a couple of swing states is in trouble. The truth of the matter is that McCain need only do slightly better in the debates and Palin to be equal to Biden ... no way Obama wins. Further, I am convinced that the republicans have an elephant gun or two they are saving for the last two weeks.

Remember that Obama is SUPPOSED to win this thing. It's like when a team that is a three touch-down favorite is only up by a field goal
in the fourth quarter. Would hardly consider that the underdog is "in trouble".

You know, I really enjoy the numerical analysis of this site but the constant democratic rationalizing gets a little old.

Namekal said...

Point of clarification re: "blown his wad." The expression (more conventionally "shot his wad") has no sexual connotations, as the article seems to imply. It's a military term from the age of musketry. In the heat of battle, panicked soldiers would pack the powder and cotton wadding while forgetting to load the musket ball. To "shoot your wad" means to shoot nothing. It has nothing to do with releasing any other substance, prematurely or otherwise.

Matthew H said...

Vernon said...
Guys, let be honest. The Palin "developing scandal" is going to result in nothing. The so-called investigation is already falling apart. The jerk tasered a kid. You go ahead and defend him


So she fired the guy's boss' boss.

Brilliant!

P.S. He was investigated, judged, and punished. The process went through. The boss was just doing his job.

Eric said...

I don't think Georgia is a likely tipping point, but SUSA seems close to worthless also. If you're looking at the polls for guidance, then look at the internals. Many of them are absolute garbage and not an indicator of anything.

Nicholas said...

he'd be up 10+% after this financial crisis. The fact that he's not is very telling, IMHO.

As an Obama supporter, it's very comforting to see this lame argument from the right again.

InkStain said...

"The Daily Kos/Research 2000 national tracker is worthless (except to observe trends) because it has 53% women instead of 51%, a 9-point Dem ID edge instead of the 5 or 6 point Dem ID edge everyone else now uses,and has a 13% Latino component even though Latinos only make up about 7-8% of actual voters (despite being 15% of the population)."

Actually, the more I look into this the more BS I have to call. I think you just made all your baseline numbers up.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

Women made up 54% of the vote in 2004.

"The jerk tasered a kid. You go ahead and defend him. "

Is two wrongs don't make a right too difficult a moral concept for you?

RWD said...

"There has been no comparable effort to look into Obama's past."

How can you possibly say that with a straight face? Are you really that stupid, or just willfully blind?

thesuperzman said...

Nate:

First your polls are the best and I trust them because of the analysis and detail you demonstrate in putting them together.

I agree with everything you stated. Last week, while everyone was complaining about the Obama campaign - I wrote some articles on my blog about the over reaction. Sure enough, it's coming true.

Everyone needs to realize there will be swings in the process. My one criticism of your polls, is (at least from what I understand from others) there is some type of assumption trying to predict the election outcome rather than just a snap shot in time. As such, I think these polls may sometimes help the sky is falling syndrome that some might have.

Having said that, I think you provide relatively good analysis to counter what the stats bear out. Unfortunately, I think folks may gloss over them.

boobot said...

Vernon said...

"Guys, let be honest. The Palin "developing scandal" is going to result in nothing. The so-called investigation is already falling apart. The jerk tasered a kid."

Walt Monegan tasered a kid?

Seriously, though... either he was fired because he refused to fire Palin's ex-bro in law, who had already been disciplined for the actions that could be proven (and who is still a State trooper, BTW), or he was fired because he was seeking additional funding for sexual assault cases in opposition to Palin. I fail to see how either of these scenarios amounts to "nothing."

Nicholas said...

Point of clarification re: "blown his wad." The expression (more conventionally "shot his wad") has no sexual connotations, as the article seems to imply. It's a military term from the age of musketry. In the heat of battle, panicked soldiers would pack the powder and cotton wadding while forgetting to load the musket ball. To "shoot your wad" means to shoot nothing. It has nothing to do with releasing any other substance, prematurely or otherwise.

Point of clarification: it USED to mean this. Now it also means, you know, the nasty.

InkStain said...

"It's hard for me to fathom how a candidate who has EVERYTHING against him and remains within striking distance in a couple of swing states is in trouble."

Because you vastly, vastly overrate the importance of "close."

If you constantly poll behind in a state, without ever leading it, you aren't winning it whether you are close or not.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"Guys, let be honest. The Palin "developing scandal" is going to result in nothing. The so-called investigation is already falling apart."

Really.

If there's nothing there, why are the Republicans trying to do everything they can to cover it up?

"The jerk tasered a kid. You go ahead and defend him."

Yeah, and Bill Clinton only got a blow job. Well, it's not about the taser, the kid, or Billy's willy. It's about honesty and whether or not Palin abused her power.

"they have been successful in tearing her down over the past couple of weeks."

She tears herself down: she's a joke. And she STILL hasn't held a press conference.

"There has been no comparable effort to look into Obama's past."

Bullshit. Obama was put through the ringer for months.

Let's see Princess Sarah go through an interview like the one O'Reilly did to Obama? Well?

"So now the polls all reflect the constant bombardment of the media against Palin."

Boo hoo. Maybe if McCain had picked someone qualified for the office, and had allowed the media proper access to her, and hadn't told the media "screw you, we'll lie if we want to", things would be different. He's reaping what he's sown.

"If Americans were truly comfortable with him, he'd be up 10+% after this financial crisis."

If a big chunk of Americans weren't racists and bigots, he would be.

Stuart said...

Palin "kill wolf from planes video" - and u get $150 for the foreleg. Focus groups indicate it really drives up Palin's negatives.

https://secure.defenders.org/site/Donation2?idb=0&df_id=1547&1547.donation=form1&s_src=6JY08WDC4F&s_subsrc=6JY08WDC4F_EJI08D1web

Scott said...

The jerk tasered a kid. You go ahead and defend him.

No one has ever defended the trooper. In fact, if Palin had just allowed the investigation to go on like she originally stated, it wouldn't be a big deal. Because of all of this ballyhoo, it makes it look like she's hiding more. The story likely just goes away if she and everyone else cooperates. There would be sympathy for her having to look out for a family in trouble rather than questions about her ethics and what she's hiding.

Eric said...

MSNBC is liberal, but not as biased as Fox News, they serve to balance each other out. Did anyone see Chris Matthews light up Eric Cantor last night on Hardball?

Andy said...

I wonder how much longer Obama's win percentage will be at only 45.1%?

zzyzx said...

"The Palin "developing scandal" is going to result in nothing. The so-called investigation is already falling apart. The jerk tasered a kid. You go ahead and defend him."

I actually agree with you there. Palin's problem wasn't the scandal nearly as much as the word about her view and record getting out. Unfortunately for her it has. Still though, it's weird how hard she's fighting back all of a sudden against troopergate. It does make one wonder if there is something surprising there.

"Remember that Obama is SUPPOSED to win this thing. It's like when a team that is a three touch-down favorite is only up by a field goal
in the fourth quarter. Would hardly consider that the underdog is "in trouble". "

It depends if your goal is a moral victory or winning. Yes it would be nice for my side if Obama were up by 20 points but the presumed better team is winning after a couple of successful desperation plays from their opponent and has momentum, the odds are still in favor of them emerging victorious. You can't throw a hail mary on every single down; some of them will fall incomplete or be picked.

fang2415 said...

Looking at the dates on those polls, are we really sure that the breaking point here is the market collapse?

The market news hit big on the 15th. That means most of those respondents wouldn't have heard about the market news when they were polled. The Research 2000 poll, done entirely after Lehman fell, shows the biggest drop for McCain, but the other polls show that the trend moved before the crash.

The new CW will undoubtedly say that the economy has provided the big turning point for Obama, but I have to wonder how much the Gibson interviews hurt Palin, especially with women. The only other factors I can see pre-crash are lipstick fatigue and convention fade, but neither of these seem like they'd move polls this much...

bryen193 said...

Anybody catch Matthews with Eric Cantor on the grill yesterday? Matthews was practically begging him to admit that these are actual Republicans in the race, not members of an imaginary "Maverick Party" that favors things like government regulation and government oversight over private enterprise and decries Wall Street "greed". It was priceless.

InkStain said...

"Looking at the dates on those polls, are we really sure that the breaking point here is the market collapse?"

No, but just like McCain benefitted from the view that his campaign bounce came from Palin, Obama can benefit from the view that he's winning on the economy.

joel said...

The daily kos poll is valid. It is done by an independent pollster. The only pollster who has a 5 point democratic advantage is rasmussen everyone else is in the 9 point range.
Rasmussen does all he can to spin for McCain but now that every major polling firm has Obama leading he will have to adjust his party ID or be the outlier and look foolish.
Remember in 2000 he had bush up 10 points on election day and we remember what happened. ARG is a useless pollser, sometimes they get lucky and call a state right but they are pretty bad.

Vernon said...

William-
You may be right on some points. However, if there is a landslide it will not be Obama (this is a Center-Right country and the last Democratic landslide was 1964 while there have been four Republican landslides since then). This little uptick for Obama may hold until the debates but that event will be the next game changer. If he outshines McCain he probably can win barring an unforeseen international crisis (which could happen). Think about it, if you were the new Israeli PM and you knew Bush was possibly be leaving the office to Obama what would you do about Iran? Bush also seems to be stepping up the attempt to deal with AQ in Pakistan. Who knows what will come of that? That could help Obama because he's been saying the US should have gone in their before. However, if there is a shooting war that could turn people to McCain because of fear as well as the association with Obama about going in there. This election (once again) will not be about the popular vote. It will be centered on winning enough of the swing states to give one or the other candidate a small win in the Electoral College. Unknown quantities like Biden's gaffe today about low taxes being unpatriotic and the like (shades of Mondale in 1984) could have an effect as well. Also, no one knows how Palin will do in the debate (she could make Biden look bad or have her clock cleaned) or what problems McCain's temper could cause. So... like it has been all year it will be close with minor events nudging things one way or another. Truly the last man standing will limp over the finish line and it's going to be an ugly last forty-some days.

Scott said...

InkStain said...

"...benefitted from the view"


I'm not even kidding, but I bet McCain's disaster on "The View" is part of the tanking among women more than anything else.

Obliterati said...

Yeah, Matthews basically challenged Cantor to a knife fight last night.

Somebody spike Tweety's coffee or something? That was ugly...but hilarious.

quantman said...

FDIC Head Sheila Bair will be announcing more bank failures in the next few days.

Govt will have to take them over, just like Indymac.

The key question is whether someone will buy Washington Mutual quickly. IF not, the Feds will have to take them over soon.

In any event, guys should expect some mid size regionals in NV, CA and FL to go under soon.

The news stories on this CANNOT in any way help the Republican brand or McBush, but more importantly it will squeeze any media oxygen or traction from the McCain campaign right until the first debate.

The first debate is next week and supposed on be on Foreign Policy and National Security.

Watch for Obama to make National Security to be an economic issue.

WHY?

Because if our stock markets and banks are failing/dropping by the wayside every few days, THIS affects foreign policy more than anything else, even Al Qaeda.

Without economic security NOTHING else matters, even defense.

McCain's lack of real understanding of macroeconomics, global markets and the impact of our debt (e.g. addiitonal tax cuts), will be become even more apparent for those watching the debates, as their 401K's crash and burn! And banks and insurance companies go BUST!

Scott said...

Yeah, Matthews basically challenged Cantor to a knife fight last night.

And Cantor looked kind of like a goon just sitting there and laughing and smiling the whole time. He had literally no defense.

It made him look worse when Wexler said, without hesitation, the he takes responsibility for Congress' performance the past 2 years.

Shap said...

Overrated-

You LIEberals always think you know what's best for the country, but you don't! Your candidate Obama is an uppity elitist who only rubs elbows with Hollywood celebrities and spends all his time in fancy country clubs sipping martinis. If we elect Obama, he and his angry wife, Michelle, will take ALL the hard-earned money from wealthy, hard-working American patriots, and give it to poor blue-collar families who are too lazy to work and get fat off of gov't handouts. This type of socialist Marxism is bad for America, just look at how bad the economy has got in the last 2 years with DEMONcrats in power!

St. John McCain the Patriot and former POW will liberate America from the extremist Muslims and the Mexicans, and squash the homosexual agenda!!! Sarah Palin will stamp out fascism with her charm and stunning good-looks!!!

McCain/Palin 'O8

bpulliam said...

InkStain said...
If you constantly poll behind in a state, without ever leading it, you aren't winning it whether you are close or not.

What swing state has McCain never led in at least one poll? If anything the models show that voters can change their mind in 72 hours or less. It would be unfortunate but watch out for the "get whitey" tape or Israel attacking Iran late October.

Eric said...

Vernon said...
William-
You may be right on some points. However, if there is a landslide it will not be Obama (this is a Center-Right country and the last Democratic landslide was 1964 while there have been four Republican landslides since then).

You guys will just say anything, regardless of whether it's true or not. Bill Clinton MASSACRED Bob DOle in 1996.

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=0&year=1996

MATT J. H. said...

Culturally conservative swing voters don't want to vote for Obama, duh. However they know the republicans are an economic disaster. They don't like Obama, he's black, half muslim, too liberal, but democrats run better economies.

In the end, whether they vote McCain or Obama depends on how they feel about the economy on election day. Bad economy = Obama win.

Patrick said...

I fear Catherine is right. Much like it seemed to me during the Clinton/Obama race, the big news networks want a horse race because it's good for ratings. Their coverage appears to shift toward those ends.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"St. John McCain the Patriot and former POW will liberate America from the extremist Muslims and the Mexicans, and squash the homosexual agenda!!! Sarah Palin will stamp out fascism with her charm and stunning good-looks!!!"

Don't forget our new enemy, Spain!

InkStain said...

"What swing state has McCain never led in at least one poll? If anything the models show that voters can change their mind in 72 hours or less. It would be unfortunate but watch out for the "get whitey" tape or Israel attacking Iran late October."

Pennsylvania, as long as you don't mind me discounting the pollster who showed Obama winning Arizona.

zzyzx said...

OK Obama must be doing well if the Whitey tape rumor is resurfacing.

Eric said...

Obliterati said...
Yeah, Matthews basically challenged Cantor to a knife fight last night.

Somebody spike Tweety's coffee or something? That was ugly...but hilarious.

Yes. I think when Palin accepted an interview with Couric on CBS after Gibson on ABC, they slapped NBC in the face (Brokaw or Williams). McCain/Palin/GOP is basically saying we don't want to have anything to do with NBC. Matthews I think decided you know what, screw it, I want the Dems to win, if they do great. If they don't I'm not going to be in good graces with the Pubs anyway, so screw 'em.

quantman said...

Markets were up this morning and Dow was at one stage up 176 Points!

BUT NOW, all indices have gone red, after the 1000 point drop in the Dow last few days!

WACTH OUT FOLKS!!

THIS WILL AFFECT THE CAMPAIGN MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE!

People, you are losing the forest for the trees!

bryen193 said...

"Looking at the dates on those polls, are we really sure that the breaking point here is the market collapse?"

I don't think so. I think that the McCain's appearance on The View shitcanning Roe v Wade in no uncertain terms, combined with Palin's interview with Charlie Gibson are the key factors that caused the bounce to recede faster than scheduled by Nate's model. However, on the economy - IF it becomes a common perception among the electorate that the financial secotr meltdown is tied to Phil Graham and McCain - it could be huge for Obama, but again - the Obama campaign cannot simply wait passively for the media to do this.

Fizz Byers said...

I just blew my wad reading this post.. I hope to see the 538 numbers sliding to the blue soon... Robot / Robot '08

IMHO said...

Over the last 7-10 days, the media have punched back at McCain/Palin with hasty stories and the Obama team has called McCain a liar while lying themselves.

The Debate at the end of next week is the next game changer, Obama-philes delight in the market woes notwithstanding.

If I were an Obama-phile, I'd be worried. Those of us not under his spell see a clumsy off-the-cuff speaker. I'm still shocked he calls his opponents liars. very unbecoming.

Vernon said...

Charles--
You're already parroting the Obama party line. If people don't support him they are automatically racists and bigots. That is already the prepared rationalization if Obama loses in November. Way to insult Americans. I don't doubt there are some racists, but what about people who vote in 90%+ numbers for a candidate because they share the same ethnicity? What if whites were doing that for McCain? Would that be racist? Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion and other's are entitled to theirs. Good luck supporting your candidate and if he wins the American people will have spoken (assuming a lot of dead people don't push him over the top or other Acorn shenanigans don't occur).

Daniel said...

The dramatic shift in the campaign from lipstick on a pig to the financial services meltdown on Wall Street now underscores how poor a candidate McCain really is.

Those words of his 'I don't know as much about the economy as I should' are going to kill him now, just kill him. His campaign manager saying, just last week, that this would not be a campaign about issues is going to kill McCain, just kill him. And, most importantly, taking Palin, an economic neophyte instead of Romney, an economic master, is going to kill McCain just kill him.

And where are all the McCain trolls today -- not exactly shooting their mouth's off today, are they?

Eddie said...

It's all downhill from now on for the McCain campaign. When it's about the issues, the Obama team is on top, which has been seen with the crumbling of the Lehman brothers, and the bail-outs, and struggling economy. When McCain can smear, and call Obama a celebrity, he'll be on top. The election is serious now, and it should be. The American people want a leader with a plan, and who has been consistent. Since what, last week, John McCain has been an avid deregulator? Now all the sudden he's regulation all the way! He's always switching back and forth on issues, ridding whatever political wave is best, and there's no consistency in this campaign coming from him. I can't believe he's fooled so many Americans thus far. But a change is gonna come. Obama is going to win the election.

InkStain said...

"If I were an Obama-phile, I'd be worried. Those of us not under his spell see a clumsy off-the-cuff speaker. I'm still shocked he calls his opponents liars. very unbecoming."

Hmm, heard that one before. How many debates did he have with Clinton that were supposed to be her chance to stop him?

Adam said...

Shap:
I see what you did there.

Scott said...

Back to polls:

Other than the Big Ten this afternoon, what else is coming down the pipe?

counsellorben said...

quantman said "Folks, MORE than a week ago, I had warned everyone that there was a major mess in the financial markets that was about to unravel, AND that this would impact the campaign."

quant,

I must have missed those posts.  I recall you taking me to task for expecting a major meltdown in the markets on the Monday after the Fannie/Freddie takeover.  I further recall you predicting a market rally last week.

I have to disagree with your assessment regarding US debt and interest, as (at this moment) rates for US government debt have declined in a "flight to safety."  There were reports yesterday of US government short-term debt selling for zero percent interest.

In many ways, this crisis now resembles the Japanese economic crisis of the 90s.  The only reason we may avoid a deflationary spiral is due to the inflationary pressures from energy prices and our substantially lower savings rates.

All of that aside, I do agree with your sentiment that the markets have not hit bottom.  Today's dead cat bounce lasted only through the first hour of trading.

Eric said...

"Big 10 Battleground Polls" come out this afternoon. Should tell us something if they're conducted well.

http://www.bigtenpoll.org/results.html

MrInsight22 said...

The Daily Kos/Research 2000 tracker is supposedly of likely voters so its 13% Latino composition is way off in light of Latinos making up only about 8% of actual voters.

Also, I suspect that Latinos are more prone to the Bradley effect (not wanting to sound racist against blacks when dealing with pollsters) than white Anglos. The Bradley effect was first recognized in CA and also seen in NYC.

The Economist/You Gov internet poll has McCain ahead by 2 points (a gain of 3 points since last week). Internet polls are bogus for actaul numbers but they have some meaning in terms of trends and are more noteworthy when they show McCain ahead because his best age group 65+ is the one that uses the internet the least (as McCain himself goes to prove).

Vernon said...

Eric-
Get your facts straight, sir. You can't claim a landslide when the majority of the voters vote against you, as happened in both 1992 and 1996. And I'm guessing many of your Clinton-istas aren't quite as happy with him after the primary, are you?
The debates will make a big difference this year, unlike in other years. The campaign will restart next Friday.

presidentraygun said...

BTW Nate, I thought you should know that Rush Limbaugh is using your EV projection to prop up his listener's faultering faith in McCain.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"If people don't support him they are automatically racists and bigots."

I never said that, you lying moron.

I said some people won't support Obama because they are racists and bigots. That's a fact, and I don't really care if you don't like it.

InkStain said...

"The Daily Kos/Research 2000 tracker is supposedly of likely voters so its 13% Latino composition is way off in light of Latinos making up only about 8% of actual voters."

Well, at least you removed your false female voter assertions.

Foregone Conclusion said...

Eric,

Vernon is right about one thing, if not anything else. Clinton didn't achieve a majority of the popular vote in either 1992 or 1996 (in both cases he had Perot running against him, of course).

dpldust said...

Wow the nonsence from the right is almost deafening. Of course BO got more money from individuals at FM/FM. Helloooo..... He gets more donations from people of most every organization in the US. Its why he is the only candidate in US hstory who is funded almost entirely by small donations!!!! 80% of all donations under $300.00. COME ON! Even in my firm, a far right leaning bastion of old white guys, there are enough progressives who have decided it time for a real change and want to contribute to help America recover.

OTF said...

vernon,

---"I don't doubt there are some racists, but what about people who vote in 90%+ numbers for a candidate because they share the same ethnicity? What if whites were doing that for McCain? Would that be racist?"

What % of black vote did kerry, clinton, gore, etc... get?

Your argument is so easily refued it's a joke. Blacks consistently vote for Dems at a 90% rate. But I guess this year they were somehow racist b/c McCain unlike any other RepubliCon in the last 30 years is suppose to get higher % of the black vote. Get real.

bpulliam said...

InkStain said...

Well you are discounting more than one pollster and you will follow up with "Well, since the nomination". But you know the truth on how close the race is and how fickle the voters are. Again, see my comment on rationalizing. Heuristic driven biases all around.

Re get whitey ... I hope it is a rumor but personally, I was never satisfied with Obama's response on the matter nor ever figured out what "bomb" Hillary had that she chose not to use. I am just saying I would not be surprised at all if it were real and is the republicans October surprise.

Cugel said...

We don't know what will happen in the future of the race but two things are sure:

1. McCain wants the race to be about "Personality" and his "POW!" 35 years ago. That and "Sarah's a hockey mom!"

Any serious issue piercing that bubble of mindlessness is a drag on him.

2. He's very vulnerable on economic issues because:

a. He was a key sponsor of the deregulation that caused the market meltdowns.

b. His economic message is blatantly contradictory. He was against the bailouts before he was for them. He was against market regulation before he was for it.

Summation: McCain's entire campaign depends on voters being too stupid to put two and two together and realize McCain is just flat lying about everything.

He's opposed to big oil? He's the champion of workers? He's in favor of market regulation? He's opposed to Wall Street? Lobbyists? He's a "Maverick?"

His actual record flatly contradicts all this, which might not be enough to trip him up because of the servile press corps who refuse to call a lie a lie, but his own words are contradictory.

And these are not long-ago contradictions, this stuff is RECENT. Like last week "the economy is fundamentally sound." Then this week it's "in crisis."

Obama ought to be putting McCain's own words up in attack ads every single day between now and the election so that every voter would be familiar with McCain's twisting in the wind on economic policy.

Of course, McCain has one thing going for him. The media is endlessly fickle. Thus, while the economic crisis won't subside, the "next new thing" will suffice to push real news off the agenda and they'll all be happily back to commenting on Britney Spears new pregnancy or something and how that impacts the race.

The media in America is totally broken and needs to be broken up via hard-hitting anti-trust legislation/enforcement and reimposition of the fairness doctrine.

Unfortunately we can't begin that work until January 2009.

tomthress said...

"What swing state has McCain never led in at least one poll?"

As InkStain said, PA if you exclude Zogby Interactive. Also, depending on your definition of "swing state" it's worth noting that McCain hasn't led in any poll showing on this site right now in IA, MN, or WI, and that he's only got one 1-point lead in a single Michigan poll.

If you exclude all of them as swing states, then the problem for McCain simply becomes what it always has been - he has to run the table and win all of the "swing" states to win, because they're all Bush states that McCain is defending (except for NH) - NM, NV, CO, VA, OH, FL, IN.

InkStain said...

"Well you are discounting more than one pollster and you will follow up with "Well, since the nomination". But you know the truth on how close the race is and how fickle the voters are. Again, see my comment on rationalizing. Heuristic driven biases all around."

The only pollster I discounted is Zogby Interactive, the one that polled Obama ahead in Arizona.

So please either retract your "more than one pollster" comment and admit that like so many of your brethren you just can't stop lying, or cite a quote that shows me discounting another pollster.

Nicholas said...

"I don't doubt there are some racists, but what about people who vote in 90%+ numbers for a candidate because they share the same ethnicity? What if whites were doing that for McCain? Would that be racist?"

Fucking moron.

A) Blacks vote for the Democratic ticket in general by 85-90% because the Democratic ticket is the party most interested in racial equality.

B) There's a huge fucking difference between a black person feeling excited and proud that one of their own is finally, finally having a chance to be president of a country that IN ITS OWN CONSTITUTION regarded black people as less than a white person, that was built on slavery of the black race, and until 40 years ago, was deeply segregated. If Obama wins, this will be a huge source of pride for black people and this country. They can look to their kids and say "Look at how far this country has come."

On the other hand, you have stupid racist fucks that don't want a black man as president because their either think they aren't as skilled as white people, they simply hate black people, or they are paranoid that the black man is out to get them.

In a generation, when there's truly racial equality in politics, and black people are still voting overwhelmingly for black people, regardless of party, then that is a form of racism. Until then, shut the fuck up.

MATT J. H. said...

This site has become nothing more than a venting station. Readable comments are few and far between. Come on guys, no post is better than the crap posted here today.

quantman said...

CounsellorBen:

Please check your facts again.

I did say that when the Fannie Freddie takeovers were announced that the markets would be up 200-300 points, AND I was right.

AFTER that when the Lehman, Merrill stuff was happening and then culminating in AIG, I posted on this at those times. I am sure Nate can validate everything I am saying.

The problem now is an world markets interconnectedness problem and liquidation by many funds!!

I expect we will see huge mutual fund outflows this week, causing even more liquidations.

I cannot believe that last night's new short sales rules, did not produce a sustained rally from short covering and a bounce for all the sell off!

This augurs very very poorly for us and our money!!

VERY VERY BAD!

fang2415 said...

bryen193: "...the Obama campaign cannot simply wait passively for the media to do this."

Agreed, in spades. Events go one way and events go the other way, but if Obama is going to consolidate his gains, he's got to do a better job of controlling the message.

This is a little o/t on a stats blog, but if Obama can place the market events within a compelling moral framework (like the one I suggest here), McCain could be in real trouble indeed.

Roberlin said...

The McCain campaign's "creativity" was fueled by a lot of lying and was based solely on "personality politics." The campaign will be hard pressed to come up with similarly creative ads and memes if the campaign remains centered around the issues.

InkStain said...

"The media in America is totally broken and needs to be broken up via hard-hitting anti-trust legislation/enforcement"

I could go with that.

"and reimposition of the fairness doctrine."

Over my dead, freedom-of-speech-loving body!

The Fairness Doctrine *only* made sense when a small number TV stations using public airwaves dominated the market. In a world of Cable TV and the internet, it makes NO sense.

Eric said...

Vernon said...
Eric-
Get your facts straight, sir. You can't claim a landslide when the majority of the voters vote against you, as happened in both 1992 and 1996. And I'm guessing many of your Clinton-istas aren't quite as happy with him after the primary, are you?
The debates will make a big difference this year, unlike in other years. The campaign will restart next Friday.

A) I agree the debates matter
B) I acknowledge more of Perot's vote would've gone Republican than Democrat, but...

Clinton would've still destroyed Dole in 1996 with or without Perot. Look at the numbers. McCain has an enormous uphill battle even if the is country is center-right like you say. First off his running-mate is a joke. Second, he knows nothing about the economy, and his advisors will recommend more of the same. That mountain is extremely hard to climb. I'll admit this election is likely to be close and this country has voted center-right for President ever since the Civil Rights Act LBJ and the Dem Congress signed in 1964. Badge of honor

bpulliam said...

Pennsylvania: McCain vs. Obama
FOX News/Rasmussen 09/14 - 09/14 500 LV 47 47 Tie
Rasmussen 04/24 - 04/24 500 LV 43 44 McCain +1
Strategic Vision (R) 04/11 - 04/13 1200 LV 39 49 McCain +10
Rasmussen 03/10 - 03/10 500 LV 43 44 McCain +1
Susquehanna 03/05 - 03/10 700 RV 41 45 McCain +4
Strategic Vision (R) 03/07 - 03/09 1,200 LV 44 47 McCain +3
SurveyUSA 02/26 - 02/28 608 RV 42 47 McCain +5
Franklin & Marshall 02/13 - 02/18 640 RV 43 44 McCain +1
Morning Call 02/09 - 02/17 588 RV 39 42 McCain +3

Beth in VA said...

To the commenter above who said Obama hasn't come up with specific solutions: rubbish.

http://www.barackobama.com/2008/03/27/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_54.php

Read this speech--at the time the media's eyes glazed over at the boring specifics. Everyone stopped paying attention when the shiny object that was Mayor Bloomberg introduced Obama.

But it is a damned fine speech on Obama's economic philosophy and his detailed economic plan. He made this in March. The man is smart, very smart, and people shouldn't make comments about Obama's economic positions without reading it.

InkStain said...

Okay, fair point then.

I wasn't discounting any pollsters, I was simply being lazy and glancing at the 538 polling breakdown.

I will restate my position:

"If you haven't led a poll in a state since April, outside of Zogby Interactive, you aren't winning the state"

Nicholas said...

Nice, bpulliam. All but one of those polls is before May, when Obama wasn't yet the nominee, the Democrats were in a bitter primary fight, the height of the Wright scandal, and/or a lot of the country still didn't know what he was all about it.

There's a reason why polls taken before Hillary withdrew aren't really considered part of this election cycle.

Foregone Conclusion said...

I'm going to have my first and last word on the idea that vast swathes of the country aren't going to vote for Obama because he's black. Quite simply, I don't believe that there are more than a couple of percentage points, most of whom wouldn't have voted for a Democrat at Federal level, and most of whom live in very Republican states.

However, there is a kind of implicit racism in the targetting of Wright, etc. The black churches are alien to most Americans, and the conservative forces have played on this quite successfully. We haven't heard much at all about Palin's church, which is at least as offensive in the views it provides, and possibly more anti-Semitic (but it's unstintingly loyal to the Church of the United States of America, of course). But the fear of Jeremiah Wright was at least partly a fear of the unknown and the radical, the kind of fear that gave the election to Nixon forty years ago and has reappeared at frequent intervals since.

tomthress said...

"But it is a damned fine speech on Obama's economic philosophy and his detailed economic plan. He made this in March. The man is smart, very smart, and people shouldn't make comments about Obama's economic positions without reading it."

You might be talking to me. If so, I was referring to the past few days. Obama's recent stump speech is mostly boilerplate - times are bad, McCain's out of touch, we need to change Washington. I agree that Obama actually has an economic plan (I think I probably disagree with you about how good it is, but that's not important), but as of right now, he's not pushing it so much as he's coasting on the general perception that he's better than McCain on the economy. Basically, I think that Obama needs to re-give that speech he made in March right now.

Eric said...

I love how Sarah Palin, whom nobody respects, won't cooperate with an investigation and yet the one thing she touts is she's gonna clean up Washington. Who exactly is going to repsect her authority. She's a moron. All of the women in Congress look at her and know they're more qualified than she is. What exactly does she think she's going to get done in Washington? Obama hasn't closed the deal. He still has to porve he can do that, but the MCCain/Palin ticket is an absolute disaster. He knows nothing about the economy and she's pathetic.

Vern said...

538 should know better than to fall into the "war for independents" analysis. This election is not fundamentally different than 2004 - the most energized base wins.

The scary thing for McCain was realizing that he could NOT win against Obama's energized base. Even if the new young voters are flighty only a decent percentage of them need to vote to tip things.

Palin, no matter how high her negatives get, will never be a drag in a war over the base.

This is not about "appeal" either, but about driving up the distinction between registered voter and likely voter. Palin turns many more registered voters into likely voters. When a polarizing candidate gets into the race, it tends to have the effect of turning off independents period - not causing them to vote the other side. So there is always a net gain.

bpulliam said...

Like I said "...since the nomination". However by that logic I can simply point to the most recent Rasmussen poll and point out that Obama isn't winning Penn. either.

Point is that it can change rapidly.

By the way, "with respect to my brethren", I have degrees from Berkeley and Harvard (fairly liberal places), lived for 10 years in San Francisco, and voted Democratic the last four cycles. I see the Democrats this time every bit as evil as the Republicans were 4/8 years ago. I am simply trying to fight fanatacism.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Quantman - Holy shit. I just turned up CNBC again. $180B of liquidity NOT good enough for the markets.
We are all in this together. Bye-bye, Wachovia.

quantman said...

IF the markets do NOT recover very significantly by tomorrow Friday evening:

WE are all screwed!!

Then this weekend, Europe and Asian markets will totally collapse, and by the time we open on Monday (after they all do), we will NOT be able to do anything.

WE are on the cusp of either getting things really under control or not at all.

At this time, an RTC type entity is needed to buy up all the bad mortgages.

IF not, banks will collapse!

MrInsight22 said...

The 2004 exit polls were famously off and showed Kerry doing about 4-5 points better than he actually did due in part to demographic errors like the percentage of voters who were women (which are much stronger for Dems than men). So don't rely on the screwed-up 2004 exit polls tp prove voter composition.

National polls typically use 51% or 52% women composition. Daily Kos's 53% gives women a 6% edge over men that cannot be justified any more than Kos's 13% Latinos as likely voters. RCP is justified in not including Kos in its averages.

Most of ARG's 25 polls yesterday looked within the range of reasonableness. Most funny was Obama only up 6 in Illinois. McCain/Palin should do a rally in downstate IL near the IA or MO border which would get a lot of coverage where they could focus on going on offense in blue states.

BTW, where's Michelle these days?

Vern said...

P.S. The Dems should have realized the same would be true of Hillary. High negatives are a red herring.

Both Reagan and Clinton had some of the highest negatives ever and both won two terms easily.

InkStain said...

"Like I said "...since the nomination". However by that logic I can simply point to the most recent Rasmussen poll and point out that Obama isn't winning Penn. either."

Umm, no you can't. Everybody here knows that single polls don't provide meaningful data. Ranges of polls do.

You are trying to use the concept of cognitive dissonance to equivocate a lot of things.

And I didn't mean "winning" in the sense of "currently" winning.

I mean if you haven't won any poll since the general election began in a state, you will lose the state on election day.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Hey, it's 40 minutes before the Gallup daily track comes out. Let's hear some predictions out there.

I say M-47, O-48.

Namekal said...

Point of clarification: it USED to mean this. Now it also means, you know, the nasty.

Nicholas, I'm sure to some people EVERYTHING means, you know, the nasty. And I've got nothing against talking about, you know, the nasty. The problem is that a lot of useful phrases get lost in the process.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

SEC Chairman Chris Cox to be fired. Source: CNBC

malanb5 said...

McCain's message is all over the place and his credibility is eroding rapidly. He needs to find another Palin so the country can start talking about stupid shit again.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"BTW, where's Michelle these days?"

Helping ensure her daughters don't end up like Bristol Palin.

Eric said...

quantman said...
IF the markets do NOT recover very significantly by tomorrow Friday evening:

WE are all screwed!!

How can this be fixed? My degree is in finance from a good school and I'm a numbers guy. Know about the world around me. Can't figure out how to fix this mess. The one thing I don't know is how much in total bad mortgage dollars is currently in the system. I assume the government could come up with enough money to keep the financial system afloat, although it might hurt for years and years to come.

Charles M. Kozierok said...

"McCain's message is all over the place and his credibility is eroding rapidly. He needs to find another Palin so the country can start talking about stupid shit again."

He could force Palin to quit and then bring Paris Hilton onto the ticket. She's more famous and only slightly less ready to be VP.

War said...

O-48 M-45
Gallup Daily prediction

Scott said...

Basically, I think that Obama needs to re-give that speech he made in March right now.

I kind of agree. Especially if he can step in and give that kind of speech now while everyone is wondering where the heck the President is amid all this mess, it will make him seem very Presidential IMO.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

MY BAD - CORRECTION:

McCain says Cox should be fired.

Eric said...

The Real Mike Is Back said...
Hey, it's 40 minutes before the Gallup daily track comes out. Let's hear some predictions out there.

I say M-47, O-48.

Obama 48-44

Charles M. Kozierok said...

Everyone likes to mock people like Ron Paul for wanting us on the gold standard. And it may well be that the gold standard wouldn't work. But basing an entire economy on debt financing is what gets us this kind of mess, and a gold standard is one of the few ways of preventing it.

InkStain said...

"National polls typically use 51% or 52% women composition. Daily Kos's 53% gives women a 6% edge over men that cannot be justified any more than Kos's 13% Latinos as likely voters. RCP is justified in not including Kos in its averages."

I'll ask you again to cite some links for that 51-52% number.

The U.S. population is 51.5% female and women turned out at a higher rate. 53% isn't out of range.

quantman said...

McCain just said that Bush Appointee AND Republican Congressman should be fired!!

Bush and the Republican Party are the ones who appointed Congressman Cox to the SEC head job!!!!

Cox is the one who deregulated as McSame, McBush wanted and eased all short selling rules, including the uptick rule for short selling.

Hey, McCain do YOU have clue what you are really saying??

Guess what: He is saying McSame and McBush ARE responsible for this mess.

Yeah, let's privatize Social Security as McCain wants to do and put it in our stock market!

Yeah, let's deregulate and cut funding for the SEC, FDIC and every other regulator like McCain and McSame and McBush have done.

p smith said...

Well here it is. This is the latest dirty McCain trick designed to deflect attention. They are going to accuse Obama of cheerleading the crisis because he dares to challenge the record of Republican failure.

These Republicans really are a bunch of lying cunts

Scott said...

"BTW, where's Michelle these days?"

She's hosting a couple of women's events in the Atlantic Coast region today. An economic roundtable and a town hall, I believe.

War said...

MrInsight22 I saw them breifly cut to michelle stumping somewhere yesterday evening on CNN.