Although the Democrats have gained ground in a handful of key races, their chances of picking up a working, 60-seat majority in the 111th Congress have diminished.
The principal states for Democratic gains are in Minnesota, where Al Franken now rates as having a 42% chance to upend Norm Coleman, up from 29% in our last update, and in Oregon, where Jeff Merkley now has a 38% chance of beating Gordon Smith, considerably up from 22%. The Democrats have also picked up a little bit of ground in North Carolina, where the polls tightened significantly as of about a month ago and have remained that way ever since.
The good news for Democrats, however, ends there. Sarah Palin's candidacy has resurrected Ted Stevens' prospects in Alaska, who now has a 25% chance of retaining his seat, up from 12% in the last update. There is no small irony in the fact that Palin, who has branded herself as a reformer, is carrying coattails for one of the most corrupt members of Congress. Nevertheless, having turned our collective gaze toward Alaska politics, I think we can perhaps better understand how Stevens' success in bringing pork to Alaska -- though it makes him an object of ridicule elsewhere -- is fairly popular with the natives. Democratic challenger Mark Begich remains ahead in all polling and is still the favorite, but with the Obama campaign in the process of pulling its resources out of the state, the situation there is much more tenuous.
Palin -- or the renewed enthusiasm among GOP base voters that she is associated with -- has also pushed some second- and third-tier races in red states back toward the Republicans. These include Idaho, Kentucky, and Georgia, where Republican leads have expanded, perhaps to the point where the races are out of reach. Nor have the Democrats been able to gain any traction in Maine, where Susan Collins' approval ratings remain sky-high.
The Democrats still retain one fairly clear path to 60 seats, assuming that Joe Lieberman and Bernie Sanders are counted with the majority. (I think, by the way, that there has been too much attention given to the party label that Joe Lieberman will choose to affix himself with. He is likely to stand with the Democrats on cloture votes related to domestic policy, which is why the 60 seat number is salient in the first place). This path would involve flipping Virginia, New Mexico and New Hampshire -- all of which remain near locks for the Democrats -- along with Colorado, Alaska, Minnesota, Oregon, North Carolina, and Mississippi/B.
It's that Mississippi special election race that has yet to really come together for the Democrats, as Republican Roger Wicker has inched upward in the polling since the summer, when the race was closer to a dead heat. But it remains by far the best opportunity the Democrats have to acquire a 60th seat, a fact which will make some coastal Democrats unhappy, since Ronnie Musgrove would probably be more conservative than several Republican members of Congress.
The Democrats could also try and put another race into play. The Scott Kleeb people insist that Nebraska will tighten as their candidate's name recognition improves, and the Democrats also field a compelling candidate in the form of Andrew Rice in Oklahoma. But time is running fairly short, and either race -- as well as something like Kentucky or Texas -- will probably require at least one fairly significant gaffe from the Republican opponent. On the flip side, the Republicans have yet to make a good race of Louisiana. New Jersey, where an array of recent polling has Dick Zimmer down in the high single digits, might make for the more interesting sleeper race.
Polls follow below.
9.20.2008
Senate Polling Update, 9/20
by Nate Silver @ 7:13 PM...see also senate, senate polls
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210 comments
Mark Warner disappointed me at the convention. I had heard great things. Not impressed.
The AK race won't be decided until a verdict is returned in the Stevens trial.
I'm not sure how the senior Republican Senator being found guilty 2-4 weeks before the election would not be the #1 story for at least a few days (barring a major gaffe by a candidate or international incident.)
If he is found guilty, the Dems pick up AK, and I suspect there'll be a push toward the Dems akin to the Foleygate push (but smaller IMO). I also suspect McCain picking Palin will prove even more toxic as the Dems will get at least some headway in attaching Stevens and Palin.
If Stevens is innocent, I think he will get by and that'll provide a small bump to the GOP as the biggest perceived crooks in Congress after that are Rangel and Jefferson.
I think the Public Integrity Section of the DOJ has a 90% conviction rate and the trial being in Washington helps a lot -- I think if it were in AK there'd be a hung jury.
The Idaho Senate poll is actually only for the First Congressional District, which is the one LaRocco used to represent 1991-94. It polls slightly better than the statewide poll by Rassmussen, but nowhere near enough. Might need to put a fork in this one.
Obama 289, McCain 249
Their Possible Pasts
Cindy McCain's Fallacious Rebuttal
The Red November: An analysis on campaign marketing
Speaking as someone from Georgia... Jim Martin will run a close race and has a good amount of support, particularly in Atlanta, but Saxby Chambliss is just too strong everywhere else, especially in what is called "Middle Georgia," the area around Macon. I would love to see him kicked out, but it's just not going to happen.
Georgia remains probably 5-10 years away from becoming a more "progressive" state if that ever happens at all-- many of the recent emigres to the area are from the Midwest, which is a mixed bag politically. It will take Atlanta dominating the political and economic scene even more than it already does for the inertia to shift.
www.approximatingpoliticaltruth.com
Great work guys
Stay on the numbers for us. We depend on you guys.
Thanks
Thanks for the update!
Hmm, I expected a movement towards the Dems because it looks to me that Oregon, Minnesota and North Carolina will turn blue. Oregon and Minnesota BECAUSE of Palin, and Dole because... I sense a lot of anti-establishment feeling towards her. I agree with shawn that we will get clarity in Alaska after the Stevens-trial. But that still leaves the Dems with 59 seats only (I guess Obama will help tremendously in Colorado.). So the 60th seat can only be Mississippi (though it would be the icing on the cake to beat McConnell, but let´s see how he deals with the current financial crisis).
Maine really is its own world, isn't it. Two popular republican women Senators...
Isn't there a third-party candidate in Minnesota that's attracting 13% of the vote? Do those polls include him?
Thanks for the update!
href="http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/News/US-on-financial-turmoil-so-what.aspx" Americans Shrug Off Crisis
This election may be "all about the economy" but it looks like a lot of people aren't on the edge of their seats as we're made to believe, and it looks like the impact it's having on the race is also overstated.
Americans Shrug Off Crisis
Let's try that.
This underlines the real brilliancy of selecting Palin as a VP candidate. GOP gave up on winning the general election 2008 soon after the fall of 2004. Palin is there to secure some senate seats.
Mule Rider, do you agree with me that many current internet polls, especially Zogby´s polls are getting manipulated by Free Republic?
So assuming that Obama wins, what happens to the Obama & Biden seats?
The amazing thing to me is that so much ticket-splitting happens in these red states.
For example, Arkansas.. dem up 47 in Senate, yet those same people are going for McCain. Makes no sense. Shows how people vote on emotions and not logic, i suppose.
You just wait until the debates!
As Dick Morris said, Barack Obama comes off as a law professor. John McCain comes of as a COMMANDER!
As a NJ native and someone who is registered to vote there, I can assure you that Lautenberg will not lose his seat. NJ is notorious for polling better for Republicans than the actual election results.
Plus, Obama is even more popular than other Democrats in recent elections and the anti-Bush sentiment here is off the charts. If there is any danger at all for Lautenberg, Obama's coattails will help him.
Lautenberg will keep his seat.
I'm more excited to see other seats get closer within reach for Democrats than I am concerned about the few Democratic polling numbers that slid back a bit.
Great post Nate
:-)
@ jake:
As far as I know, the governor of that state gets to decide the replacements.
This is the headline everyone will wake up to on Nov 4
Say it with me Republican trolls (Mule Rider)
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Alex S.,
Don't know about "manipulation" but there may be a small amount of twisting.
benh57,
Re: Arkansas. You just have to know the state. Extremely socially conservative. The Dems there are very conservative compared to the rest of the Democratic party. It's not too far-fetched that they would support the local Dems and the perceived Rep "maverick."
Deadpixel,
I get tired of telling people I'm not Republican....never voted for one...but talking to liberal shit-stains, it's no wonder the message doesn't get through...I'm no McCain supporter, although I unabashedly dislike Obama.
But if calling me a "Republican troll" makes you feel good about yourself...where you can wet the end of your finger, stick it in the air, and then yell "Gotcha!" at the computer, feeling good about your "zinger", then be my guest. I couldn't care less.
As I said on another thread, if you consider a blowout getting 52-53% of the popular vote and maybe 300 EV's, then I agree that Obama has a chance at a blowout. But anything above that is purt near impossible.
If Obama has 53% of the vote, he's clearing way more than 300 EVs.
53% means 45.5% for McCain and 1.5% for third-party candidates.
In an Obama +7.5 environment, Obama picks up Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Indiana and Nevada, more than likely, in addition to his Kerry + IA + NM floor. Maybe Missouri too.
53% of the vote is 350+ EV territory.
D.W.: While Atlanta the city is very liberal, I'm not sure a shift to Atlanta the metropolitan area dominating politics even more would actually help, since some of the biggest Republican voting blocks are the conservative northern Atlanta suburbs. If anything, middle Georgia is actually more competitive for the Democrats than suburban Atlanta is.
Okay, I revisit my claim...a "blowout" for Obama is getting 50-51%...max. I don't believe there's any way he'll exceed that short of J Mac or Sarah Palin sacrificing a baby on live TV.
You are probably right. I think Obama wins easily, but that's not the same as winning big.
I think 1.5% going to third party candidates is way overshooting the mark...maybe 0.1% or 0.2%.
This election has your typical "bases" going at it. And it has people who are dead set to step in and end Republican rule, even if they aren't fans of the Democrats, or there will be people dead set in making sure the slickster liberal black man from Chicago doesn't get in office either.
A lot fewer people will go 3rd party this time around because there is not as much complacency as there was before (1992, 1996, and 2000).
Remember, this is truly a "high stakes" election. Obama's words. Not mine.
Isn't there a third-party candidate in Minnesota that's attracting 13% of the vote? Do those polls include him?
Dean Barkley is the Independence Party candidate and he was included in the 2 latest polls (getting 13 and 14% of the vote). Barkley is actually a former US Senator, Jesse Ventura appointed him to fill out the last 2 months of Paul Wellstone's term. With Coleman and Franken hammering each other with negative adds I wouldn't be suprised if Barkley continues to rise in the polls. He won't win but a 20% showing wouldn't suprise me.
or there will be people dead set in making sure the slickster liberal black man from Chicago doesn't get in office either
And I meant to add that these people normally aren't big fans of Republicans.
It is also worth thinking about cabinet issues should Obama win. Specifically, Chris Dodd is often talked about and would be a Republican appointment.
National polling shows third party candidates in the 1-2 percent range.
This election isn't any more polarized than 2004, where third-party candidates got exactly 1.00%.
Do you have any evidence that it will be .2%?
J Mac or Sarah Palin sacrificing a baby on live TV.
Hahaha!! Some things are worth repeating.
National polling shows third party candidates in the 1-2 percent range.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Barr failed to get on the ballot in many states? In other words, people in many places couldn't vote for him whether they want to or not. It means the national polling isn't truly reflective of what we might see, because it's likely there are people telling the pollster they are going 3rd party when ultimately, they won't even have that choice.
But I guess 1% for all other parties isn't that far-fetched.
This election isn't any more polarized than 2004, where third-party candidates got exactly 1.00%.
That's a matter of debate. I still think there was more complacency then than now. It's like I said before, for each guy will be their base + people determined to vote against (another lying Republican/a liberal black man).
Obama has made this such a "high stakes" election with his loaded rhetoric. His own words have made this a definitive contest FOR or AGAINST him and less likely that throw away votes will happen.
I believe Barr is on 44 state ballots, that should be plenty.
He's even hoping he'll be the only one on the Texas ballot :)
Any possibility of factoring out a cellphone effect here? I see that Selzer is being reported here, so we could perhaps get an estimate of the effect on senate races from that poll (though it would be nice if we had more), or we could just assume the effect would be the same as the effect on the presidential race.
It will be so much fun when the liberals are crying on election day when the Bradley Affect kicks in. ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Barr failed to get on the ballot in many states?
Barr is on the Ballot in 44 states (all but Con, La, Me, Ma, Ok, WV and DC). Nader is on the ballot in 46 states.
http://www.ballot-access.org/
Mule Rider cites an on line poll to prove Americans aren't moved by the financial crisis. And this on line poll shows McCain ahead 45-42. Goodwork Mulie.
By the way, Mulie keeps bragging that he's never voted for a Rethuglican. I believe it. I don't think pimply faced 17 year olds, in front of Mommy and Daddy's computer, currently have suffrage.
45-42 on the economy is a victory for Obama.
If independent voters decide they care about the economy and only break 45-42 for McCain, Obama wins easily
I don't think PPP really is going to release tonight... :(
The connection between Palin and Stevens sure is an interesting one. She is running from her association with him and claiming to have said "thanks but no thanks" to DC for the infamous Bridge to Nowhere, yet Ted Stevens' re-election prospects are improving on the McCain/Palin coattails? It would seem that Palin's popularity in Alaska and her use of the infamous Bridge line (or lie) would hurt Stevens in his re-election bid, no?
Anyone care to place odds on Stevens guilt or innocence when the trial is completed?
Online polls are not useless. They are WORSE than useless.
Bad information is worse than no information. Online polls are incredibly easy to manipulate. They should be completely ignored.
Hey Chalres you gonna be CRYING when Obama loses in the debate next week? ;)
ROFL!
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080920/NEWS0108/309200010/
I think this is a new poll:
McCain 48, Obama 42, Nader 4, Barr 1 in Ohio. +/-3.3, 869 LV.
I think Mule Rider is a Canadian skinhead.
STepper,
I'm 29 whether you believe that or not. Come up with a more intelligent/witty response, and I'll indulge you in banter. Otherwise, you're just another ignorant blowhard.
InkStain,
In 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004, third parties picked up 20%, 10%, 4%, and 1% of the vote respectively. Pretty obvious trend. And I don't think any of this year's fringe candidates have remotely the appeal of Perot or the Nader of 2000.
Following the trendline and based on that, that's where I'm coming up with less than 0.5%.
He's (Barr) even hoping he'll be the only one on the Texas ballot :)
Barr lost the the first round in his fight but the case was not thrown out of court.
http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/09/19/barr-loses-first-round-in-fight-to-keep-obama-and-mccain-off-the-texas-ballot/
Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr has lost the first clash in his strange Texas fight to keep John McCain and Barack Obama off the ballot in that state.
Campaign manager Russ Verney put out word this afternoon that the Barr campaign’s request for an emergency stay, to block the mailing of ballots to overseas military personnel, has been rejected.
The Texas attorney general successfully argued that an order to halt the shipping of ballots would violate the voting rights of those in the armed services....
....The Supreme Court has refused to dismiss the case outright and has asked all parties to file their response to the lawsuit by Monday.
Part of the legal basis for the suit is Bush vs. Gore, by which the U.S. Supreme Court held that “the clearly expressed intent of the legislature must prevail,” and that election laws must be uniformly applied and interpreted.
“Sound familiar Mr. Bush? Sound familiar Republicans?” Mr. Barr said, adding that the state law is unambiguous.
Projecting based on trends that like is reverse gambler's fallacy.
STepper,
WTF? Canadian skinhead? Are you the 17-year old pimply prick? Come on now. You're going to piss me off, and then I'm going to have to threaten your life. That's just how it works.
Congrats to Pres-Elect McCain,
Dude. Seriously. I like torturing these liberals/Obamabots/left-wingers, but you're just swooping in with your ridiculous one-liners like "McCain CAN and HE WILL. Liberals WILL CRY on NOV. 4th!!" which are a bit ridiculous.
Give it up or at least wait until after the election to come on and talk shit like a cock-happy teenager.
You can take a trend and use it to project that things aren't improving for third-party candidates, but you can't automatically project further movement.
Ink Stain cites an Ohio poll taken during the last Ice Age, 9-12 to 16. Good work Ink Stain. (Is that an ink stain or did that poll just really excite you?)
As for you, Mule Puncher, I'm no longer interested. Go back to your reliable on line polls.
"I like torturing these liberals/Obamabots/left-wingers,"
You are failing miserably. You are *amusing* us.
reverse gambler's fallacy
What do you mean exactly? Just curious.
lol, stepper. The poll was taken 12-16, which is an important thing to note, but it was *released* today. It's new news.
"I think this is a new poll:
McCain 48, Obama 42, Nader 4, Barr 1 in Ohio. +/-3.3, 869 LV."
I think it was mentioned a couple of days ago.
Is 45D/47R/8I a valid ID split for Ohio??
InkStain,
Funny thing is that you liberal assfucks amuse the hell out of me too. Isn't that great how that works out?
"What do you mean exactly? Just curious."
Gambler's fallacy is the assumption that past events have an impact on future results. It's generally expressed in someone believing that red is "due" on a roulette wheel because a large run of black has hit.
Reversing it is still the same fallacy. Four straight dips in the the third-party percentage isn't automatically a reason to think there will be a fifth dip (though it is reason to expect it to be much lower than the original number).
STepper,
You were never interested to begin with. Your IQ is too fucking low to make a cogent point, so you scream and throw a tantrum like a 5-year old with ADD.
Grow up and grow a pair of testicles before you ever talk to me you waste of seminal fluid.
STepper, Mule Rider is currently not acting like a dick so I think you should lay off. If he gets all dickish, then make all the Canadian skin head references with my blessing.
"Funny thing is that you liberal assfucks amuse the hell out of me too. Isn't that great how that works out?"
It works for me. If it still works for you when I'm proven right about pretty much everything on Election Day, I hope it still works for you.
Though I've gotten your "heart racing" at least once, so I hope it doesn't cause any long-term physical damage.
Democrats are going to pick up
1)VA- Warner-D
2)NM- Udall-D
3)NH- Shaheen-D
4)CO- Udall-D
5)AK- Begich-D
6)MN- Franken-D
7)OR- Merkley-D
8)NC- Hagan-D
We need to win MS-B(Musgrove) and either ME(Allen),KY(Lunsford) before telling Lieberman(CT) to go Cheney himself.
InkStain,
Gotcha. That's what I was thinking you meant, but I was just making sure....yep, that roulette wheel has made many a sucker out of some poor souls.
I still think based on those numbers, the current batch of 3rd party dingbats, and with how the Rep vs. Dem electorate is shaping up, anything more than 1% is almost impossible...and I think more than 0.5% is unlikely. But it's not a big deal either way.
If the Ohio poll is dated, I apologize, the link I posted is dated today.
Only teenagers reliably use profanity to try to make a point. They lack the intellectual depth required to use other literary forms.
But, on the other hand, Mule Fornicator, your spelling is first rate. Too bad neither your reasoning nor your weak sense of humour follows suit.
(BTW, I was 17 46 years ago, and graduated from BO's law school possibly 15 years before your parents were hatched.)
Back to polls, it looks as if PPP is not going to make it tonight. Sad. I'm sure Mule Skinner was hanging on here just waiting for it. Now he'll have to be escorted back to his padded cell.
"Funny thing is that you liberal assfucks amuse the hell out of me too. Isn't that great how that works out?"
Dammit MR, could you just rise above it once, so I don't feel like an idiot for defending you?
STepper: I'd take twenty of Mule Rider's worst posts over one of yours any day. At least he's entertaining to read.
Oh, wait, I forgot. I have to make a blithely partisan post, or I won't fit in!
"did you hear to the news. banks are closing haha. Capitalism? More like capitalISN'T. DO YOU GET IT. HAHAHAHA OH GOD RETHUGLICANS ARE THE WORST HAHAHA I HOPE YOU WILL CHANGE i like bicycles anyway 400+ ev vote landslide or its major fraud everywar (tm)
OBAMA/BIDEN 2008"
If you're a McCain troll, just replace "Obama" with "McCain" and "capitalism" with "socialism". It's a very versatile post.
New NC poll
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/
With a high number of new and first-time voters, the Dems have a chance of beating the polls. I've noticed when canvassing that some of the voters aren't sure when I ask about the downticket candidates by name. So I ask, are you voting a straight Democratic ticket? Answer: Yes.
PPP NC -
Obama - 46
McCain - 46
Barr -5
think this is a new poll:
McCain 48, Obama 42, Nader 4, Barr 1 in Ohio. +/-3.3, 869 LV.
An interesting note in the crosstabs, their sample included more Reps than Dems
47.3% Rep
44.9% Dem
7.9% Ind
In contrast the last SUSA poll had
35% Rep
44% Dem
17% Ind.
The 4% in 200 is only because there are thousands of elderly Jewish voters in Florida who absolutely LOVE Patrick Buchanon. They love him. Why, in that one county, he amassed tons of votes...
Only teenagers reliably use profanity to try to make a point
And then you immediately refer to fornication. Touche.
Aaron,
Thanks.
Jen,
Sorry. I was doing well. See how I've been getting along with InkStain?! I will keep trying to avoid the "dickishness."
Aaron and Mule Humper, here's something just for you from one of your heroes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVynnbx1Xsc
On the Ohio Poll, this was an interesting question:
The poll also illuminated the difficulties of reaching consensus on energy policy:
- 70 percent agreed that global warming is a proven fact, not an unproven theory. However, fewer than half — 46 percent — blamed man-made emissions.
- 55 percent said investing in alternative energy sources should be the top priority for U.S. energy policy, while 29 percent saw expanded exploration and drilling for oil and natural gas as the top priority.
- 59 percent favored building more nuclear power facilities.
McCain has advocated nuclear plant construction and additional off-shore drilling, while Obama has promised a massive investment in alternative and renewable energy sources.
I was not aware that the energy question was so important in Ohio.
Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! said...
Hey Chalres you gonna be CRYING when Obama loses in the debate next week? ;)
ROFL!
I just read somewhere that McCain-Palin negotiation team requested an open-book multiple choice format debate for the VP debate. Ha ha.
Charles M. Kozierok said...
"I think this is a new poll:
McCain 48, Obama 42, Nader 4, Barr 1 in Ohio. +/-3.3, 869 LV."
I think it was mentioned a couple of days ago.
Is 45D/47R/8I a valid ID split for Ohio??
No, it's very inaccurate. This link suggests party registration in Ohio is 37% Dem, 25% Republican.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/773/fewer-voters-identify-as-republicans
They also polled from 8/12-16 which was a much better time for McCain. That poll is wrong, though I'm not sure by how much. Surprising, you would think if the Ohio newspapers all got together they'd get it right. There's a chance that they're right and that link and our thinking are wrong, but I'd bet the voter brekadown isn't close to that. That accounts for all 6 points of the lead probably.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/773/fewer-voters-identify-as-republicans
I found a video of Mule Rider!
http://api.seesmic.com/#/video/wiZcKsNmJI/watch
Hagan will never, EVER win ;).
I would be nervous if I were Lautenburg or Franken, though. LOL!
Is it just me or is deadpixel my side's version of "CTPEM"?
I checked the PPP results. My heart says yes, but my head says probably not. Does anyone know if there is a "local advantage" in polling?
That Hagan lead is sizable in that poll.
My last comment to/about STepper...
Cause at first I was fooled into thinking he was actually a credible critique...
You insist on referring to "mule fornication" and "mule humping" and you include a link to a video of Bush flipping the bird, yet I'm the childish idiot?
You call me a Canadian skinhead, yet you spelled humor as h-u-m-o-u-r? What the hell?
Get a freaking life.
Hey MN Mike how's Stuart Smalley doin? ROFL!
They also polled from 8/12-16 which was a much better time for McCain.
Actually it was 9/12-16.
Agree that the party breakdown is off though.
You were being completely un-dickish this whole thread MR; that is why it caught me by surprise. Reading it again, I think you were more bantering with bad words with Inkstain.
Tied in NC is a huge result for a single poll.
The number of "outlier" polls for Obama taken in the post 9/14 era is getting larger and larger. The state polls are beginning to reflect the bounce.
I don't think he's really tied in NC, but I don't believe he could even hope for a single tied poll in an even or even O+1 national environment.
That PPP poll is NC showing a dead heat (with Barr siphoning off 6%) under-polled AAs by about 15%. AA make up 25.3% of the population but the poll reached only about 22% who so identified themselves (in an automated telephone poll). So, while these figures will now go into the "hopper," I suspect they are a bit "conservative" for BO's actual position.
And it looks like Sen. Dole is starting to slip big time and will lose, too, in the Demo. onslaught.
In MR's defense, I totally bait him.
I have a good working relationship with InkStain.
This is the most childish, least informative thread on the site to date. sigh.
Minnesota Mike, where do you believe Dean Barkley is getting his support, more Dems, more Repubs or is it about equal in disaffected voters? Is Franken really running that bad a campaign? Is his support among Minnesota progressives still strong? He can't seem to break 45%, which does not bode well.
Love you too, Jen.
Honestly, I'm just trying to get a little balance in these comments and hopefully I can show these trolls just how stupid they look by exposing them to a mirror image of themselves.
By the way here's an interesting video of Mule Rider...
http://api.seesmic.com/#/video/wiZcKsNmJI/watch
The party id from the poll was pretty skewed, so I am not letting myself get too excited about it. I don't think Dems have a 14% party id advantage.
Wow are people not surprised by that NC PPP Poll showing a tie game?
That North Carolina poll is interesting. Certainly the internals/crosstabs give the impression that this state was swayed a fair amount by events last week. 4 point move in that poll. What's particularly pleasant for me is this. They had 21% African-American vote in that poll. The actual % African-American vote in 2004 was 26% in North Carolina. It will almost certainly be higher this year. Meaning what? Well, all things being equal if you shifted the poll to represent voting demographics by race in 2004 Obama would be ahead, perhaps making North carolina a potential tipping point. You Dems out there, tell me if you're catching my drift. This looks really good. Especially compared to a couple virginia polls that reflected a McCain lead of 7 and 9 points, but underrepresented the African American vote substantially. I'm a statistics guru. An area I'm knowlegeable in. I'm telling you, I'm almost certain if the elction were held today Obama wins North Carolina and Virginia.
eric do the 76% dems for obama sound right to you?
Minnesota Mike said...
They also polled from 8/12-16 which was a much better time for McCain.
Actually it was 9/12-16.
Yes my bad, 9/12-16 which was a much better tim e for McCain then say 9/16-19
Deadpixel, I would not compare MuleRider's posts to CTPEM.
MR does contribute to the debate at times when he is in a good mood. CTPEM is a drive by idiot.
Every post I have seen so far have been like CTPEM's but I may be missing some.
Deadpixel,
Have you ever thanked "mommy" for being on her back the night you were conceived instead of working the late shift down at the bordello for another $50 "job" from a trucker?
PPP has it's new NC poll up.
Kay Hagan is now ahead 46/41.
Obama and McCain are tied in NC.
Minnesota Mike wrote:
With Coleman and Franken hammering each other with negative adds I wouldn't be surprised if Barkley continues to rise in the polls.
Interesting view, but I tend to disagree.
As for Barkley in MN, I think his support is "soft". Personally, I think that about a third of his supporters will vote Franken in the end and squeeze out Coleman.
Coleman is such a chameleon that he can point to virtually any position and claim it as his own. This is working against him as people who once supported him as "nervous about Iraq" now see him posing as a full-tilt Bush supporter, for example. His perpetual "changing of spots" has cost him credibility among the Republican base, and he only won with a plurality last election.
The IP is doing great work against Bachmann, but her gerrymandered district will probably let her slide by 5 points.
Jen,
Sorry. I realize I'm letting you down, but once again, when confronted with idiots who just like to wrangle with me because I'm not an Obamabot and call me things like "Republithug troll" and "McLovin' some McSame" and "sore loser" and other bullshit, I give 'em some dirt right back.
Jay,
Conventional wisdom has always been that Independence Party candidates take more votes from Dems than Reps but that does not appear to be the case this time. In the Last 3 SUSA polls Coleman recieved 52, 46, 41%. Franken recieved 39, 39, 40%. Franken has held steady while Coleman has dropped.
OMFG !!!!
WTF IS GOING ON NC
i need a drink
Vanessa said...
eric do the 76% dems for obama sound right to you?
I don't know the state that well.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/773/fewer-voters-identify-as-republicans
There are probably a lot more Democrats voting in North Carolina than Republicans (see the link above), but they always vote Republicans in. It probably is close to accurate at 76%, though I bet if you pushed the 21% AA up to 26% AA or a little higher, the Democrat % would be higher for Obama as well.
Tied makes me much happier than the fake +7 from earlier. +7 is too much. I couldn't buy it. Tied is somewhat believable.
Jen, I think you made Mule Rider cry...
"Tied makes me much happier than the fake +7 from earlier. +7 is too much. I couldn't buy it. Tied is somewhat believable."
Don't dismiss either.
Mule Rider is from the KKK camp in South Montana
MR- since you are not the agressor tonight I will leave you alone.
Jen,
Thank you. You are polite.
And I see that since I'm getting lumped in with the KKK, it's time for me to exit.
Thanks, guys, you really know how to further an intelligent discussion.
as a redneck i don't like CNN
how about you guys ?
This ad got almost 80,000 views alone today on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJThPjvscFs
fellow redneck Mule Rider
admit your in the camp
i'm looking at your federal file
The actual % African-American vote in 2004 was 26% in North Carolina. It will almost certainly be higher this year.
I believe the 26% number is wrong. I know that is the number the 2004 exit polls show but according to Census Bureau only 21.7% of North Carolina's population is black. I believe the last exit poll number is flawed.
PPP isn't exactly the most dependable pollster, but if it makes you feel better go ahead and believe their NC stats. Remember it wasn't long ago that McCain was +20. I don't think there is a chance NC goes for him. And even though I'm not a fan of Mrs. Dole she will draw a majority of the vote in part because of McCain-Palin coattails. As far as Minnesota, there seems to be a different dynamic there than much of the rest of this country but Franken just has too many skeletons for me to believe he will beat Coleman (his tax evasion issues, his previous foul media presence, and the unfolding drama of him "penning a skit critical of McCain" which may help him with diehard extreme leftists but not the average Minnesotan who knows he's a carpetbagger). In Oregon Merkley has a shot due to the Obama popularity, but I live here in a very blue part of the state and I tell you Merkley's chances are overblown (if you don't know why see "Georgia/Hot Dog" for some of the reasons). I do think that the Dems will take 55 seats or so but they will not have the election cycle that the Repubs did in 2002 to take all these seats which is the reason the Repubs are defending basically twice as many seats as the Dems. The House is probably going to be much closer due to the Palin effect, which is powerful in many communities and will likely flip back some of the seats that went blue in 2006.
It would be great to see a PPP Virginia poll. They're releasing Colorado and New Mexico this week, but Virginia could confirm North Carolina. I believe that that 46-46 tie should actually show about 47.5-44.5 Obama ahead if the African-American vote was accounted for properly. There are two issues, the economy was overwhelmingly important in the poll. Though it will almost certainly stay the #1 issue, not at that high of a rate. Some of those voters could probably be peeled back to McCain just from a (McCain doesn't know what he's doing on the economy and that's all that matters right now bubble). Barr at 5% is probably high. But, a lead is a lead, the 26% AA should stay with Obama, research triangle should stay with him. Charlotte should stay with him. I hope Plouffe is paying attention there. 15 electoral votes sitting there to be had.
Congratulations to President-Elect McCain!!! wrote:
Hey MN Mike how's Stuart Smalley doin? ROFL!
Perhaps you should just stay there on the floor laughing and stay away from the keyboard.
The grown-ups are talking.
Looks like the volatility in NC is the values voters checking their wallets and finding a lot less there.
Suddenly the economy becomes the big issue in a state which is the home of Bank of America, Wachovia and NASCAR.
McCain's huge polling leads of just a week ago (+20?) evaporated as Gov. Palin's negatives grew, McCain demonstrated he was in dementia meltdown, and the "fundamentally strong" economy demonstrated that McCain's guess was off by a mere 180 degrees.
Absent a major gaffe by BO, or the revelation that Michelle Obama is actually an alien from another solar system, this is going to be a blow out. And I now think the Dems will get a bullet-proof (filibuster-proof) Senate, possibly without Lieberman's help.
(As for the skew in the PPP, I noted @8:06 that NC is 25.3% AA, and the poll underrepresents them by 15%. The 25.3% figure is a 2007 US Census Bureau estimate.)
Real Joe,
Don't mistake my "federal file" with the underside of my scrotum. They look just about the same.
more ni**ers will come out this year
wait & see
fellow rednecks, you guys underestimate ni**ers
i can't wait for the first debate
49% Dem to 35% Republican in the PPP NC poll is probably not quite right. It was close to even in 2004. The numbers have shifted to more Dems, but I don't know if by that much.
I see Real Joe, aka "eh" the conversation killer is back so once again there will be no conversation for those who aren't Obamatons. *Goodbye* before others start getting lumped in with the KKK. (By the way, the AP story Nate quoted earlier says it's 1/3 of DEMOCRATS that are racially biased. Just FYI)
Mule Rider
don't worry
your not my problem
your file is with a other agent
i don't fu**ing want your case
I'll tell you one thing thats going on in North Carolina. Raleigh Technology Park, also called RTP is accepting quite a large influx of silicon valley engineers, high ethnic populations, almost all Democrat. Cisco Systems is one Northern CA company that has moved thousands of people from the San Jose area to RTP since 2004- and there are others. Depending on the high tech economy, NC might go bluer, faster, than many think.
too many drinks * dizzy *
This PPP result seems to confirm the consensus view, one that I was a bit hesitant to agree with. Obama got a major boost this week. I wasn't quite sold on it; the state results weren't reflecting a major shift, at least not in the way the McCain bounce was very suddenly apparent in the red states. But the "outlier" looking results are definitely stacking up.
This seems to indicate that, during the height of McCain's bounce, NC was about +7 to +10 for McCain. Now that the bounce has receded, it's looking like McCain +1 to a bare-knuckle tie. That's about 3-4 points behind Obama's national average. That is, NC is the landslide state. If he's at 52-48 on election day, NC would be the "tipping point" from a comfortable victory to a 330+ landslide. Not useful in a close election, but it would mean Hagan would probably win the senate seat, and that strengthens his governing majority. Not very useful for him directly, but a very good investment down the line. I'd be very happy about this if I was Obama. All of those incessantly whining about his strategy of strengthening infrastructure nationwide are eating a healthy amount of crow right now.
Jen: NC has a very large democratic tilt in party ID. Lots of them are Wallace Dems, though. And this poll undersampled the AA population something fierce, so I would venture that in the end it's a bit of a wash. Probably shows things as they are.
vernon
wtf are you talking about ?
The 25.3% figure is a 2007 US Census Bureau estimate.)
Where did you find the 2007 Estimates? All I could find on the Census Bureau's website was 2006 numbers and they had AA listed as 21.7% of the population in NC. I have a hard time believing the % jumped that much in one year.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/37000.html
Every state poll w/ internals should be redone based on 2004 African-American turnout. Some of these state polls are not close for that number. It severely skews the data when in many of these states McCain wins Whites 60-40 and loses Blacks 90-10. I don't expect Nate to do that with his model or anything, but just for our honest assessment of trying to figure out what's going on.
lot of asian americans work @ Cisco
@minnesota mike
ni**ers move quickly
LOL
McCain +14 according to RCP
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/
The GOP Brand is Hot Again
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/585kcgeg.asp
Bay Area Resident posted
"Depending on the high tech economy, NC might go bluer, faster, than many think."
Looks like it may have already happened. And not just the high tech sector. Also the banking sector. A lot of BofA personnel moved from San Francisco when NationsBank took it over and changed its name. And then Countrywide, from Calabasas, CA, was acquired at the beginning of the most recent round of this meltdown.
I think we are seeing a paradigm shift and it's coming out of NC. Amazing. I would have thought VA first, but it makes sense.
While it's much too early, and I won't buy the champagne until 11/3, I think BO is going to get at least 350 EV. Had he been Barry O'Bannon, it would have been 385, but 271 looks good.
@Minn.Mike - I hate to say it, but the 25.3% figure came from Wikipedia. Yikes. But I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy as no 538.com trolls knew about this PPP until now.
Real Joe-
I know you're the same guy ("eh") who likes to impersonate different handles on this site and post crap to try to advance your leftist ideology. When I see you show up (any version of you using whatever handle you choose for that moment) I leave. You have singlehandedly destroyed this forum by chasing away any discourse that doesn't buy the "Obama is Really Dreamy" belief. So goodbye troll.
Wow, Vanessa thanks for that link to the youtube (anti) McCain ad. Who is behind this ad, its pretty effective?
That clip of McCain saying, "I stood beside George Bush, I did everything I could to get him elected", should be utilized HEAVILY by the Obama people. It is very effective.
Aaron, RE: NC Tipping point.
It's a distinct possibility that rising tides don't float all boats equally. McCain could flip Pennsylvania, wisconsin, or Minnesota where North Carolina, Virginia, and/or Indiana might be necessary. I'm referring to a popular vote that lands Obama ahead say about 2 points. His ground game, etc. work well in some states, but not others. Definite possibility. The map might not be 2000,2004.
vernon said...
McCain +14 according to RCP
LOL
Holy crap, that article from the Weekly Standard is from nine days in the future!
There's some serious money to be made on InTrade with this info...
The PPP Colorado poll could be particularly interesting
"Pennsylvania, wisconsin, or Minnesota"
That seems likely, given all the polls he's led in those states... *eyeroll*
vernon said...
Real Joe-
I know you're the same guy ("eh") who likes to impersonate different handles on this site and post crap to try to advance your leftist ideology.
WHAT ?
vernon, you got me confused with some crazy liberal
Jen: NC has a very large democratic tilt in party ID. Lots of them are Wallace Dems, though. And this poll undersampled the AA population something fierce, so I would venture that in the end it's a bit of a wash. Probably shows things as they are.
_________________________________
I hope so, but my blue state is only +8% so I remain skeptical, be hopeful.
The party ID stats in NC's PPP poll are as follows:
49 D
35 R
16 I
4% too many democrats, 3% too many republicans. I think the poll favors obama by about a point and a half...but both campaigns are throwing the kitchen sink at the state in terms of money and staff, so it really is ultra close there
Real Joe-
Read the link. I didn't make this up. Just reminding you that your chilled champagne may need to chill a little longer.
One good poll for Obama in NC is a *long* way from putting the state into play.
http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/content.aspx?ID=33
Most recent real numbers on party affiliation in NC, by voter registration. Obviously, could change in 2008.
Kos has corrected it's post on the Idaho Senate race and it was after all a statewide poll, notjust the 1st CD. Same result.
Kos has corrected it's post on the Idaho Senate race and it was after all a statewide poll, notjust the 1st CD. Same result.
guys watch the Craftsman Truck Series on SPEED right now
now this is cable
:-)
NC is a 50% Democratic state. Wow. The Deep South is going to rise for Obama in this election. I love how you guys are trying to parse out this or that group to vote 100% for the empty suit who's never accomplished anything like they're lemmings marching to their death. People do think for themselves and you'd be surprised the number of Dems who have racial problems with Obama. Oh wait, no you won't because the AP story says it's 1 out of 3 Dems who may not vote for him because of race. Don't count your chickens folks. This election still has a long way to go.
InkStain said...
"Pennsylvania, wisconsin, or Minnesota"
That seems likely, given all the polls he's led in those states... *eyeroll*
I'm an Obama supporter, but if you think those 1 or 2% leads are safe with a big chink undecided (many think McCain will win the undecideds), then we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally think OBama is solid in Michigan and has a better chance in most swing states than the overall consensus, but in those three states, I'll believe he wins them on November 4th, until then I'll believe the endless slew of polls from all 3 states saying OBama's barely up and 10% are undecided.
Vernon, an article about the GOP brand being "hot" again by the Weekly Standard has about as much validity as the Avon catalog saying that frangrances that smell like old lady are hot again.
Correction, by the way, my blue state registration is +9.5 now; it was +8 in 2004.
Sorry if I've been a bit snarky. That idiot "eh/real joe" really makes me angry with his racist garbage posing as a Republican.
"I'm an Obama supporter, but if you think those 1 or 2% leads are safe with a big chink undecided (many think McCain will win the undecideds), then we'll have to agree to disagree."
Fair enough. I still say people significantly underestimate the difficulty of turning even a two-point lead into a victory on election day. You have to win almost all the undecideds (whom you have to convince to actually vote).
Okay, it's time for my nightly contribution (Since Jen let me know I haven't posted anything useful in this thread yet...)
PPP is based out of North Carolina so I would say that makes them the MOST reliable pollster when it comes to North Carolina numbers.
Who would know a state better then the pollster from that state?
Vernon
Realclearpolitics is way off, once you go behind its electoral map facade. When you go into the "battleground states" it identifies, many of them are heavily Obama, but RCP hasn't admitted it in the map.
When you dig into the actual stats it's currently Obama at least 273 with 30 "ties" that are actually lean Obama. (In other words, about what we have here.)
So, RCP is totally unreliable. This site's stats are probably the most reliable, although they are yet to catch what I think is about to become a landslide.
Looking at the PPP NC poll internals, I was a little surprised at the 76-18 break in the Dem group for Obama. Where else does he lose 18% of the Dem vote and still have an even moderate chance to win the state? Something doesn't seem right about this. I'm not sure that this is a great result for Obama. The D+14 party ID looks off-base to me.
vernon said...
Sorry if I've been a bit snarky. That idiot "eh/real joe" really makes me angry with his racist garbage posing as a Republican.
Huh ?
Jen-
I know it was the Weekly Standard. I was just sharing that not everybody buys the echo chamber here that Obama is going to win with 538 electoral votes and that the Dems will have 98 Senate seats. Trends are one thing, and if another pollster besides PPP shows a tightening race in NC it will be interesting. On the other hand even if the Dem registration in that state was 60% do you think they're all San Francisco Dems who will support Obama? McCain is probably the one candidate on the Repub side who would have a chance to win this year. How ironic.
InkStain said...
One good poll for Obama in NC is a *long* way from putting the state into play.
I don't think anybody but the Obama crazies are. I think the point is that if the election was held today, I think NC would probably be sort of a secondary tipping point. He would win easily without it, but if he won WITH it, he'd have an easy, verifiable landslide.
Eric: I sincerely doubt McCain can win Pennsylvania without being at +1 or +2 nationally. Same with Michigan. New Hampshire's a toss-up, to be sure, but still. At the height of his bounce, the closest he got in PA was a set of two tie polls. He'd have to be outperforming his bounce in order to pull a better result in PA. I don't think that's likely, not unless Obama implodes.
Also, as to the undecideds breaking for McCain... I think it's likely, but not nearly as likely as breaking for their party. The most potent indicator of how someone will vote is their party. I think the undecided Democrats will skew disproportionately towards Obama and the undecided Republican disproportionally towards McCain. Independent undecideds will probably skew with a slight advantage to McCain, but there's too much being made right now of some intrinsic advantage McCain supposedly has among undecideds.
Folks:
The 2004 North Carolina exit poll was way off on the black vote. It was actually under 19%. The exit polls also over estimated black turnout in South Carolina for sure, and I think Virginia as well:
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2008/07/more-erroneous-exit-polls.html
Tom Jensen, PPP
"Looking at the PPP NC poll internals, I was a little surprised at the 76-18 break in the Dem group for Obama. Where else does he lose 18% of the Dem vote and still have an even moderate chance to win the state? Something doesn't seem right about this. I'm not sure that this is a great result for Obama. The D+14 party ID looks off-base to me."
Are you familiar with NC? It has a very high D party affiliation advantage, but it's a lot of soft Democrats who vote Republican a lot.
VA is also experiencing a massive high tech influx from here, but not as much as NC. The VA area that coincides with RTP is Tysons corners. The RTP area is really ahead of the curve however. Most of the facilities in RTP that I am aware of (Siemens, Cisco etc) were procured in the 2000 timeframe. Then there was a significant technology recession, and not much movement until after 2004, when we started running out of space in the bay area peninsula again. Currently some significant portions of telecommunications are centered in RTP- this was not true in 2000 or 2004. I am trying to get some hard data to backup my opinions and will post when I find it- but thousands of tech workers have transferred to RTP and more coming every day.
I should also say that the technology workforce is completely multicultural- significant numbers of non-whites, H1-B workers who are obtaining permanent residence etc., and my experience is that these people are afraid of the republican agenda that they view as racist, and they are not complacent when it comes to voting or participating in the process. When the VA Allen/Macaca moment happened a few years ago I had to laugh, that incident was a reflection of my area of the country moving to VA, and the locals think they can treat this group with disrespect - little do they know these are the highest wageearners in the state.
Does anybody have a list of Polling Firm addresses. I'd like to compare their accuracy when it comes to home field advantage.
Nate mentions Setzer is based in Iowa. And that their Iowa polls are the gold standard. So would the same work for PPP since they are from North Carolina. it's an interesting question I think...
Stepper-
I am quite familiar with the structure of RCP and how they figure their totals. If Obama was up 8+% in most of the battleground states I would subscribe to your interpretation. But even if he's at 273 (which I would say he probably is) as people go into the polling booth (or mail their ballot in like we do here in Oregon) he will have had to convince them that he's up for the job. As a certain top Democratic pollster stated 70% of undecideds/late deciders will probably break for McCain at the end. So if Obama is only up 2-5% points I think he could be in trouble. As I've said for days his performance in the debates will be HUGE. Look at the bump the unofficial Saddleback Forum gave to McCain and they didn't even debate head-to-head.
The line between 8% and 6% is very arbitrary, and if they had set it at 6% then Obama would lead your RCP number easily.
They cooked it.
Fred Barnes article in the Weekly Standard about the resurgent GOP Brand is hilarious.
It misses Palin's gravitational collapse, ignores the polls that say most people buy the Bush-McCain tie in, and was apparently written before the mortgage melt down this week. Yet it's dated for the 29th of September.
In an age when a new news cycle in politics occurs every hour, that's a dangerous thing to do. Barnes looks even dumber than Bill Kristol, though that is not possible -- and it was Kristol who predicted the Palin pick. Palin now appears to be about the dumbest thing McCain could have done; Mitt Romney looks pretty good right now, cooling his heels on the sidelines, and waiting to don his Superman suit to fix the economic meltdown singlehandedly.
@Vernon - Assuming Obama is up 2% in a swing state, with 7% undecideds, they will have to turn out (less than 50% will; after all, they can't make up their minds) and more than 75% of them will have to break McCain, which is highly unlikely. In fact, that turnout and break will still yield an Obama victory by about 0.25%.
PPP is based out of North Carolina so I would say that makes them the MOST reliable pollster when it comes to North Carolina numbers.
Who would know a state better then the pollster from that state?
_________________________________
That would make sense, but I do not know if it is the case. Does anyone remember how PPP stacked up in the NC primary?
I still think there are too many Dems in this poll, but I think it does show a welcome "surge" for Obama. Whoever said it is a landslide-only state is right on I think.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/09/report-democrat.html
Headline: Report: Democrats Voting On Race, Republicans Not So Much
Quote: " Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.
More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views."
---Live by identity politics, die by identity politics.
Since nobody wants to debate the home field advantage effect when it comes to polling firms. Ill revert back to my previous line of inquiry.
Why is Vernon so damn racist?
Brian in IL
NC is actually highly democratic in terms of party ID
45 D
32 R
23 I
About a quarter of those dems are old school southern dems from the old south days, who may still vote dem on the local and state level but would not vote for a dem. President
"---Live by identity politics, die by identity politics."
Yeah, they're really dying right now...
Inkstain-
I just picked 8% myself. It's not from any official figure. I just tried to estimate some of the "play" in the polls going into November 4 based on my experience with past elections. If he's up outside of the margin of error I think even if/when he underperforms he will still pull it out. But if it's within 1-2% in any states going into Nov. 4 I would bet money that McCain will overperform.
new post !
time to move
Deadpixel-
I am probably the least racist person you will ever meet. But since you are intent to lie and slander rather than discuss and debate. *Goodbye* Enjoy the echo chamber of "Obama is Awesome, Dude! He Rocks!"
@Deadpixel
Observing racism and being a racist are two different things.
vernon is probably a realist. Sadly, for our country and the human race.
There's a huge different between Obama underperforming on Election Day because of racism (i.e. he'd have way more support) and Obama's support being overreported because of racism.
There's evidence of the first, the evidence contradicts the second.
By the way, deadpixel, I no longer consider you the Dem version of CTPEM. :)
NC is actually highly democratic in terms of party ID
45 D
32 R
23 I
______________________________
Wow. I guess 14% party advantage is not that far off.
Why is it that when I assume the best about someone they say something obnoxious?
Are you familiar with NC? It has a very high D party affiliation advantage, but it's a lot of soft Democrats who vote Republican a lot.
Actually, this is news to me, thanks for clarifying InkStain. But with a 14% advantage in party ID, an unpopular president and unpopular war, etc., etc., then why is it so hard for Obama just to pull even with McCain? Another website still places NC in the "Safe R" category (clearly this is prior to the latest PPP poll however). With party ID clearly in the Dems favor (plus the GOTV effort, increasing AA population), this should be more "in play" than it has appeared all along.
Thanks for the update. I suspected that the race in Oregon might be tightening.
Obama (and most D presidential candidates) lose because white Southern Democrats aren't always supportive of the national candidate, even if they vote D on the state level.
"Where else does he lose 18% of the Dem vote and still have an even moderate chance to win the state?"
He'll lose MUCH more than 18% of the Dem vote in WV, but have a decent shot at it.
Back when GA was looking close, same thing.
Incidentally, Oklahoma (yes, Oklahoma) has close-to-equal party ID, but massive Dem defection.
Tom,
Would just like to thank you for the transparency in your polls. I appreciate any pollster who shows their work.
Thank you Jen. Woohoo!
Of all the polls taken within the week leading up to the NC Dem primary it appears PPP did pretty well:
ACTUAL: O - 14.7%
Zogby: O - 14.0%
PPP: O - 10.0%
Ras: O - 9.0%
R2K: O - 7.0%
Mason: O - 7.0%
SurUSA: O - 5.0%
InsAdv: O - 4.0%
Hey! wait a minute...
Watch Mississippi very closely. Musgrove could be poised to win.
If you look at the cross-tabs of the latest poll (from R2K), while only four percent of whites (Wicker's base) are undecided, 18 percent of blacks (Musgrove's base) are undecide). If three things happen, Musgrove will pull ofh a shocking upset:
(1) He holds onto the 23/24% of the white vote he already has;
(2) He's up 75-7 with the black vote today, he needs the remaining undecideds to break the same way so he can claim 91% of blacks; and
(3) hope black turnout hits 39%+. Blacks make up 37% of the state. If turnout goes to 39%, and Musgrove holds those numbers, he will win. The math is there.
This race is extremely winnable and close, which is why Barbour is trying every dirty trick possible to win.
I've moved to DC recently, and people here really are hopefully for statehood and 2 senators. I'm not sure what cloture rules would be, but if the Democrats get 59 seats, two more would be 61 out of 102 or 60%. Think it could happen?
Again I find Nate's win percentage not even close to neutral. Their is more volatility within that statistic than the stock market right now.
Sam, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but Nate has at least explained (in detail) his methodology. How did you come to find "Nate's win percentage [is] not even close to neutral"? Would you explain your methodology?
If that N.C. PPP poll is even close to accurate, it spells trouble for McCain in Virginia. No way that N,C. is that close without Obama leading in Virginia.
Nate - I think your Senate tracker should now be over 56.
As for a early post saying Ted Stevens' guilt or innocence would be decided before the election, I think the opposite will happen. At some point next month the trial will get continued "by stipulation." The last thing Stevens wants is a trial before the election, no matter what anyone may have said.
If Stevens is innocent, I think he will get by and that'll provide a small bump to the GOP as the biggest perceived crooks in Congress after that are Rangel and Jefferson.
The difference between Stevens (Rangel and Jefferson) is Rangel and Jefferson represent heavily safe Democratic Districts- 85% Democratic. They don't have a serious Republican opponents. Rangel and Jefferson can hold on to their seats until expulsion.
Stevens is facing a strong top tier Democratic challenger- Mark Begich is a popular mayor of a big city- Anchorage. He is a son of a popular Democratic Congressman.
Anyone care to place odds on Stevens guilt or innocence when the trial is completed?
My WAG is 3-1 in favor of conviction. DOJ has a great record of getting convictions and a DC jury will not be sympathetic to Stevens. OTOH, he won't be lacking for the best lawyering that money can buy.
Barr lost the the first round in his fight but the case was not thrown out of court.
There is absolutely NO WAY the courts will take McCain and Obama off the ballot. The Texas Supreme Court is Republican controlled and taking both off the ballot will hurt McCain. Besides being a weak legal argument and totally contrary to any sense of equity, the politics of the situation guarantee Barr loses this suit.
We need to win MS-B(Musgrove) and either ME(Allen),KY(Lunsford) before telling Lieberman(CT) to go Cheney himself.
We won't tell Lieberman to go Cheney himself no matter how many seats we pick up. 60 Senators is only important for winning cloture votes. Each cloture vote will be unique. We cannot count on every Democratic Senator going with the party on every vote, so every extra vote we can get may be important. And that means we will not kick Lieberman out of the caucus as long as he generally supports us (which except for foreign issues, he generally does). Besides, he's friends with many Democratic Senators and the good ol boys network will stick together.
The Dems may or may not kick Lieberman out the caucus, but they will take his committee and sub-committee chairmanships from him.
It's not so much that he has endorsed Mcain. Actually appearaing and speaking at the Republican convention will be the reason.
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