9.11.2008

The Road To McCain Runs Through Palin

This number, from the new FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll, is not a good one for Democrats:

28. Regardless of how you might vote, which
presidential ticket do you think will bring
the right change to Washington?

Dem Ticket Rep Ticket
Total 46 39
Democrats 84 5
Republicans 7 82
Independents 36 38
It's the number at the bottom that ought to be a concern. Obama presently has no edge on "change" among independents. In fact, the Republicans lead in that category by two points.

You think that's because of John McCain? You think that McCain would be polling evenly among independents on "needed change" if he had selected Mitt Romney as his running mate? No, it's because of Sarah Palin.

But here's the tricky thing: it's not directly because of Palin. In this survey, when questions were asked about Palin herself, she performed well, but not all that well. As might be expected, she leads Joe Biden on the have-a-beer-with attributes and trails him on the ready-on-day-one attributes. Overall, Palin scores at a +9 among independents when they were asked whether they were more or less likely to support the Republican ticket because of her presence. That isn't a bad number, but Joe Biden, at a +7, is right there with her.

But Palin is McCain's warrant for his claim to be a change agent. She is his lipstick.

Of course, the Democrats ought not make it personal against Sarah Palin. That will fail.

(And no, "lipstick on a pig" is not a personal assault on Palin. In fact, the Republican reaction was so overwrought today that it probably enables the Democrats to use this line however they see fit. More on this in a moment).

The Democrats, however, do have a couple of things working in their favor. Firstly, voters do not know very much about Sarah Palin apart from the personal stuff. In a Pew survey released today, 69 percent of voters said they'd heard a lot about Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter. By comparison, just 35 percent said they'd heard a lot about her record as a reformer, and just 30 percent said they'd heard a lot about troopergate (fully 28 percent said they'd heard nothing about troopergate at all). So there is ground to be made up here.

And fortunately for Democrats, the ground is fertile. It is fertile because the Republicans significantly overplayed their hand on earmarks. Palin was before the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. John McCain was against $3 million to study bear DNA in Montana -- but how does he feel about $3.2 million to study the DNA of harbor seals in Alaska? It was in Alaska's earmark request (last row of the second page). Or the mere fact that Alaska is the nation's runaway leader in earmark requests, as Josh Marshall so aptly caricatures:



Earmark reform is Palin's warrant for being a change agent. Palin is McCain's warrant for being a change agent. "Right change" is the argument that McCain has staked his election upon. You win this argument, you probably win the election. It's not that complicated.

Of course, there is the argument from conventional wisdom that a presidential candidate should not be attacking a vice presidential candidate, as Karl Rove espouses today:

Of all the advantages Gov. Sarah Palin has brought to the GOP ticket, the most important may be that she has gotten into Barack Obama's head. How else to explain Sen. Obama's decision to go one-on-one against "Sarah Barracuda," captain of the Wasilla High state basketball champs?

It's a matchup he'll lose. If Mr. Obama wants to win, he needs to remember he's running against John McCain for president, not Mrs. Palin for vice president.

Michael Dukakis spent the last months of the 1988 campaign calling his opponent's running mate, Dan Quayle, a risky choice and even ran a TV ad blasting Mr. Quayle. The Bush/Quayle ticket carried 40 states.

Adlai Stevenson spent the fall of 1952 bashing Dwight Eisenhower's running mate, Richard Nixon, calling him "the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, and then mount the stump and make a speech for conservation." The Republican ticket carried 39 of 48 states.

If Mr. Obama keeps attacking Mrs. Palin, he could suffer the fate of his Democratic predecessors. These assaults highlight his own tissue-thin résumé, waste precious time better spent reassuring voters he is up for the job, and diminish him -- not her.

Rove draws an analogy to Michael Dukakis attacking Dan Quayle. But Dan Quayle, from the moment he was selected as George H.W. Bush's running mate, was a liability for Bush. Dukakis was wasting his time attacking Quayle because he had already won the argument -- but it wasn't a winning argument.

On the other hand, Palin may be a winning argument for McCain. Rove ought to know this, because he knows all about attacking an opponent's strength. But as the Pew numbers reveal, the argument is very much unsettled. It should not even be a particularly difficult argument for the Democrats to win, but they need to make sure that 90 percent of the voters know about harbor seal DNA by the time that Election Day hits.

*-*

Indeed, not only was Barack Obama's "lipstick" comment today not something he should need to apologize for -- it is precisely the right metaphor for the campaign. If the Republicans get their way, and "right change" versus "wrong change" becomes the prevailing narrative of the campaign, it will be Obama's best argument, and maybe his only one. I had a friend who suggested to me today that rather than cut and run from the metaphor (which Obama, wisely, has not done), Obama go full boar -- er, full bore -- and build an advertising campaign around it:
Just thought I'd share an idea circulating among my circle of friends. The Obama campaign should cut an ad featuring a real pig wearing real lipstick. A funny ad ---- when I was a kid liberals actually had senses of humor and weren't afraid to provoke; it'd be nice to see that back in the playbook.

In this hypothetical ad, the pig roots around in its sty, wearing lipstick and a pink bow. The soundtrack just consists of pig sounds ---- grunts, hooves in slop, &c. After a few seconds, the words "John McCain's agenda --- more of the same." Those words fade out, followed by (one at a time, in sequence): "Unfair tax policy." "Foreign policy failures." "War on the middle class." "Irresponsible energy policy." "Corporate welfare." etc etc etc.
Two-thousand and seven was the year of the pig in the Chinese calendar; maybe it can be 2008 here in the States.

159 comments

markymark said...

Quick thought. Is it worth, given that the GOP seems wo want to tie Palin to McCain and have them campaign completely together, to find someway of breaking that up? Like a new stump joke? 'We'vew worked out how Sarah Palin has worked out her babycare problems- she's hired John McCain as her nanny.' Or suggesting the GOP won't dare put Palin on the stump seperately, because they don't have confidence in her?

Qute said...

McCain on his own could not have energized and mobilized his Evangelical base. Palin was his rearguard but she was not without risk as her extreme views and corrupt record could alienate the Independents. Attacking Palin might rally the base but it could peel off the Independents, so it's a risk worth taking. However, Obama needs to step up to the game. He is losing ground with the Independents because he appears to be moving ever closer to the Washington Establishment with his FISA votes and choice of Biden. *I'm* turning skeptical with every such move to this mythical "centre". He is not winning more votes and he is demoralizing his base. I haven't been giving money even though I might still vote for him, but Ron Paul is looking more like the real Change with every passing day.

Tito said...

So basically, I guess, what your saying is "so goes Sarah Palin, so goes the country." If she continues to be a winner for John McCain, the Democrats have problems. But if she becomes a liability then the Democrats have the edge.

And here I thought no one voted for the VP.

I think we're just in a Palin+Convention bounce. The RNC was pretty much a 3-day long Obama-style rally for her, and it's been keeping on for this week. But she's gone home for now. McCain's on his own. The news from the continues on without her, and her re-introduction back to the trail won't be as big. This thing starts to recede this weekend. That's my guess anyhow.

Qute said...

In contrast, McCain's pick energized his base and even roped in the Independents. The energy of a campaign is contagious. Right now, I'm not feeling any energy from Obama's campaign, they've lost the mo, and McCain has found his. Obama better think of a way to win his alienated supporters back, get back on message, etc.

Joe Perez said...

Great pig ad (I noticed that it didn't mention Palin anywhere, that's smart). Much better than your suggestions from the other night, IMO. I hope Obama's listening.

On a side note, I think it's worth observing the fact that Sarah Palin may yet turn out to be as utterly disasterous a VP pick as Eagleton or disappointing as Quayle. Everythng will depend on how she does in the upcoming campaign, so I would take all these polls showing a Palin bounce with a grain of salt. People will be taking stock of the Governor for the next several weeks, and the current emotional fondness many white women feel towards her will either be firmed or weakened in the weeks to come.

Tito said...

Qute -

Whoa there Chicken Little. 538 puts this thing at a near tie. RCP's average is +2.2 McCain. Pollster.com has McCain at +1.5 in their national trend. The EV map is roughed up, but essentially the same as it was before the conventions. It's one week post-conventions. It's 54 days to the election. There's 3 presidential debates and a VP debate to go.

Breathe. Everything is okay.

Tito said...

Hey Nate, that USA Today/Gallup poll that showed McCain +10 in the LV model and +4 in the RV model also held another surprise. The generic congressional ballot was +5 Republican in the LV and +3 Democrat in the RV.

+6% swing for Republicans in the presidential contest and +8% Republican swing in the congression ballot. Does this say anything about the underlying data being strong, or does it say anything about Gallup's LV model being screwy? Would these two numbers normally swing together in such a near-uniform fashion? Seems odd to me but I don't know the intricacies of polling.

footstep said...

Can I say something controversial? I think Palin's success is actually down the fact that many people now think they can vote for a "historic" candidate without having to vote for a black person. Being female, she has allowed many voters to have a "historic" choice that they can feel comfortable with. All the arguments about experience and celebrity have been completely ignored - since when have concerns about hypocricy worried Republicans? Palin has given one speech (written by a man) and suddenly the droves are flocking to her. Obama simply cannot dare to talk about being black the way that Plain can talk about being a woman. This is tragic and underlines a deeply worrying sign about the state of the eduction system in America.

OzJohnnie said...

footstep;

Must it all come down to racism?

I love it how you guys have got to keep up that "speech written for her (by a man)". Get that bar set really, really low. Just when the MSM is coming around to saying she's pretty sharp and youtube vids of her AK gov debates come out showing her not to be a drooling chillbilly. Just as those expectations start to rise you look for ways to knock them back down.

The one thing Biden has going for him in these debates is that he's such a gaffe-aholic that people are starting to expect an epic fail from him. Do your best to raise him back up again and lower her, if you don't mind.

Do what you like. I can't believe you don't learn from mistakes, however.

Oz.

markymark said...

Here is somethng that not many people seem to talk about- McCain's Palin problem. I am not sure that he is locked into a lose-lose position now. On one hand, if Palin flunks eventually, he made a rushed choice for VP, and is taken down with it. If she continues to be a huge factor, that takes some of the gloss away from McCain, and when people finally have to settle on a choice, and they remember they aren't actually voting for Palin, then who says they, especially women, go automatically to McCain?

Tito said...

footsteps -

I don't think that necessarily controversial to say. The observation that Palin can talk about it and Obama can't is something I've honestly never even considered. Good point. I think if she were to talk about it too much though it would undermine the Republicans cry of "sexism". Plus, like Obama, Hilary Clinton already put the possibility of a historic candidate in everyone's head for a year now. Ferraro, too, in '84. Palin isn't exactly treading new ground here.

I think what the point you make is, and I'm not meaning to put any words in your mouth, is that does Palin assuage what Rush Limbaugh kept (or maybe keeps) referring to as "white guilt". I dunno. I guess it depends on how much you believe people, specifically white people, are voting for Obama because he's black. And that, just like the supposed Bradley Effect is a great unknown.

OzJohnnie said...

markymark;

The first half of your problem is a concern, but I don't think those in the know are worried.

The second part, however... If she does really well then women voters will go back to Obama because McCain nominated this really good, really dynamic woman to the VP position? In order to show their unhappiness about a competent woman only being second on a ticket, they switch votes to the ticket that passed over an obviously qualified woman? More hopeful than real, methinks.

Oz.

OzJohnnie said...

tito;

Obama hasn't talked about race? "I don't look like the other Presidents on the dollar bill"?

Obama can talk about race all he wants, but not as a reason to vote for him or against him. Talk about how being black in Kansas taught him something. How being raised in a white family taught him something. And, if he's smart, he'll talk about hit it taught him that anyone can do anything in America.

Use race as a hammer to beat on the competition, and by extension it's supporters, when then he'll be a loser.

The same is true about Palin. She doesn't say she should be elected because she is a woman, but talks about the advantages of electing a woman because of her experiences. She's never made the argument that those that oppose her are sexist (except for Sullivan, I guess).

So, talking about race is not a non-starter. It depends on the message sent. America bad because of race, bad message. America good... well you get the drift.

Oz.

jaywoods said...
This post has been removed by the author.
jaywoods said...

I guess the lack of enthusiasm is pervasive throughout the Democratic Party. I definitely feel angst, and had second thoughts about voting. I'm not sure why the campaign took so long to rebut all the lies. Moreover, refuse to put up any decent ads, other that the dull shit- nothing with excitement. The campaign better wise up before its too late.

Tito said...

Oz -

He has talked about race in a positive way. He's talked about growing being raised by his grandparents. About being the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. He has talked about overcoming what people would view as divides and how being raised multi-culturally is part of the essence of America.

But he can not go out there and say things like Palin does about (using the Clinton line) 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling. He can't go out there and say "maybe we need a black man [woman] to get the job done right." She has a contextual advantage for how directly she can use her gender as an asset, while (by even your own points) Obama would have to craft a way to be more subtle and not so direct. And THAT is the underlying difference between how the two can represent themselves.

Everyone is equal, but Obama has to appear to be more equal than Palin or else he's exploiting race.

x0lani said...

Holy crap, that's a lot of money! They want $6.7 million for "Rural Drug and Alcohol Interdiction" in a state with 700,000 people!? Maybe there's more to it, such as preventing Alaska from becoming a illegal substance entry point, but it still seems excessive. Does Alaska have a serious drug problem we don't know about?

It would probably be cheaper just to give them all drugs! ;)

Nate: Can you get a threaded comment widget? Your readership has blossomed to the point that the comments are difficult to follow...

Alex S. said...

I believe the McCain campaign is trying to milk the little advantage in favorability rating they have. They´ve had it since Palin. And as long as they continue to have it they can tell whatever lie they want because there is a chance that more people believe him than Obama.
They are also playing on time. They have that shiny little toy called Sarah Palin and hope that her shine wears a few more weeks.

Pig and Pork... that´s the way to go. Throw in a few oil lobbyists, the Senator Stevens investigation, and McCain-Bush.

Tito said...

jaywoods -

You're gonna not vote because the way the campaign is functioning? Please. The ads aren't directed at you. The enthusiasm is up to you to bring to the table too you know? So stop being a down and do something to pick up the pep. Unless you're just a concern troll (which is my gut instinct}, and then that's just sad.

djl said...

New Quinnipiac this morning:
OH: Obama 49-44
PA: Obama 48-45
FL: McCain 50-43

It just moved on the AP wire at 6AM...the story includes this link, which appears not to have been updated yet.

markymark said...

Ozjohnie

I guess the issue is that lots of women right now are supporting McCain-Palin because one member of the ticket has a womb. What happens when some of those people begin to think about if thats enough of a reason, if voting for a right wing nut just because of her chromosome mix is a good enough reason. (I also wonder if the same issue might not occur to independent men). Lets face it someone with Palin's views shouldn't appeal to moderates.

And the bigger issue is that McCain seems happy to bask in Palin's afterglow right now. The McCain campaign have signalled they expect a ton of joint appearances. That either doesn't give off a lot of confidence about Palin, or a lot of confidence in McCain's popularity. In the end either of those things could come back to smack the GOP right between the eyes.

Tito said...

djl -

You got a link to the AP story? Obama up by 5 in OH? I'm as skeptical about that as I am about Gallup/USA Today. Though Quinnipiac is a higher rated pollster...

Alex S. said...

The Ohio/Florida discrepancies of Rasmussen and Quinnipiac are staggering. That has been going on for a while. My gut feeling tells me that Quinnipiac, as a pollster with a scientific background, is more to be trusted than a commercial pollster like Rasmussen. Although I´d rather like to see Obama win in Florida than in Ohio.

OzJohnnie said...

markymark;

And the bigger issue is that McCain seems happy to bask in Palin's afterglow right now. The McCain campaign have signalled they expect a ton of joint appearances. That either doesn't give off a lot of confidence about Palin, or a lot of confidence in McCain's popularity.

If you take the most pessimistic view possible, then that's true. Or maybe the campaign figures that joint rallies pulling 23,000 are more effective than separate rallies pulling 800 and 100, as Obama and Biden are doing. If joint appearances between Obama and Biden pulled 23,000, do you think they would be doing them?

A second consideration: what's the chance of Obama and Biden scheduling a joint appearance any time soon? What if they only get 1,500 people or less? How does that message play.

The disadvantage you have in your thinking is that you are always trying to work the angle that is to your best advantage, rather than trying to figure out what could go wrong. That's why McCain has had the jump on Obama ever since Berlin. Obama keeps thinking what will go right, while McCain keeps thinking how can he make things go wrong. And how can he keep the initiative.

Oz.

zwrite said...

THIS FORUM SHOWS WHY McCAIN IS WINNING

The GOP has suckered Obama into the wrong battle, and this forum proves it.

In looking at the 300 posts responding to a story posted on Wednesday night, I did a search of a few key words.

Do you want to guess how many times the words "health care" were in the posts? Uno. "Economy?" Two. "National security?" ZERO.

How about "lipstick?" TWENTY-SIX.

Like most of the people on this forum, I favor Obama, but the debate I'm reading on this forum is silly and counterproductive at best. Instead of debating whether Obama should respond to McCain's third-grade behavior, the debate should be turned to ISSUES. Obama hitting back is WHAT McCAIN WANTS. Don't you people favoring Obama get that?

The less time Obama spends on economy, health care, and yes, national security the better McCain’s issues-free, bullshit, personality campaign will do.

Remember that Bill Clinton won by BRIEFLY hitting back on character issues, mainly by saying that the American people wanted a better campaign, and then pivoted into discussing the issues and kept pounding on the ISSUES.

Obama's campaign was mostly vacuous for months. It pivoted in a positive direction with a strong convention speech and a strong VP pick, but it has returned to being empty-headed, issues-free, and vacuous.

Please help Obama take his campaign in a new direction rather than arguing about lipstick and hitting back. I don't want to live in a nation with a radical Supreme Court for the next 30 years. Thank you very much.

Shalom,
ZWrite

OzJohnnie said...

markymark;

I guess the issue is that lots of women right now are supporting McCain-Palin because one member of the ticket has a womb.

And doing this "Woe is me, we're victims to identity politics" routine is about the surest way possible to make sure women stay away from your preferred ticket. The vast majority of women would find that insult to their intelligence particularly insulting.

Oz.

PeteKent said...

The portrait of the independent electorate in this and other polls shows them to be much closer to Reps than Dems. this reflects that Inds are more or less conservative, but resist party identification.

McCain's strategy of running idependent of his party aids him in garnering independent votes.

Obama is running within his party as a tradtional liberal. You can call it "change" but that is only putting lipstick on the pig!

Ha!

What an ass the McCain campaign has made of Obama.

First off, Palin owned the word "lipstick" after her RNC speech. His use of the pohrase was a snide referece to her and his audience reacted accordingly.

You could see his sense of embarassment at what he was going to do when he passes his hand over his face when he said it.

The loser got caught being the smarmy guest at the country club making fun of the other guy,s date, lounging against the wall, smoking a cig and sipping a martini, just as Rove said he was.

The whole thing is a mess.

Biden had the best line of all yesterday, admitting that Hillary would have been a better pick than him!

djl said...

I do now, Tito. Linky.

Alex S. said...
This post has been removed by the author.
x0lani said...

zwrite:
While I agree with you in spirit, I think you confuse the symptom with the cause. If you look at these comments as a microcosm of political thought, most people really don't want to get into the issues. How many people want to discuss detailed trade figures or statistics? People already have their minds made up on the issues, regardless. It's a lot easier to just have an opinion on "lipstick" and to sway people that way.

I can't think of a president that won on issues since Reagan, and that was because of the Cold War, IMHO.

Nate/Sean: Please please please get a threaded comments widget! It's a bit tricky, but look...

Alex S. said...

"And doing this "Woe is me, we're victims to identity politics" routine is about the surest way possible to make sure women stay away from your preferred ticket. The vast majority of women would find that insult to their intelligence particularly insulting.

Oz."

Or they find it insulting that McCain thinks that he can get their votes this easily. The identity politics argument works both ways.

markymark said...

Oz,

Are you seriously suggesting that McCain's bump hasn't been fired by women? Go look at the jump in white women backing McCain since Palin has been on the ticket. I am not claiming to be a victim of identity politics, because thats how the game works. But what happens when people begin to have the second thoughts moment? What happens when they think about themselves and there children rather than about Palin.

Zwrite has it right, the Obama team has been knocked off its stride. The 9/11 pause may do them some good, if the next thing they can do is to go out and pivot back to issues. I would hit healthcare big over the next few days. Talk about the amount of people not covered, talk about getting coverage for them. Emphasise McCain's weakness on that issue.

Qute said...

jaywood, Watch it dude. The Thought Police are out in force. Feeling disappointed? Unmotivated? You're *not allowed* to harbor such feelings or thoughts. Unhappy with Obama's campaign? You must be a Republican troll. Open your wallet, CTFO or STFU.

At least when the rank and file Republicans express dismay and display a lack of enthusiasm for their candidate, their Party ponies up and their candidate bends over backwards/scours the backwoods/braves the snowstorm to headhunt their Evangelical Boudicca. Forget about building "bridges" to the Dems and Indies. And *they're* supposed to be the "authoritarian" party.

Even a slave wage service job in our great disintegrating economy would have had the employee inducted into the soundness of *listening* to their customers lest they head elsewhere. Only the Obama campaign would tell his disgruntled donors and supporters to STFU. Yes, piss off the base, way to win the election.

Toby said...

I'm with zwrite.

Obama can respond intelligently to the lisptick & sex eduation smears by including a hit on McCain in his defence

"McCain is so afraid to discuss the economy, he' talking about lipstick ... " or some such.

Each attack exposes McCain in some way. Obama should be just zinging them back real sharp, with interest. That's what Bill Clinton did, and it worked. If you visit "Open Left", you will find out why Clinton was teflon-coated, and Dukakis, Gore and Kerry were vulnerable. There is a distinct "how to" about returning attacks... its sad that Obama seems to be only learning it now.

He also needs better attack ads... more on the "bridge to nowhere" lies ... McCain has a short fuse, he's an old guy with anger management problems. The re-iterated accusation of liar! might cause him to lose his cool in public. Its worth the shot.

I think a "moral high ground" speech about how McCain is dodging the issues, and trivializing the campaign might not be a bad idea either. Obama can end with the regretful "We didn't want to go there; we have no choice; you know who started it... but here are some sad truths about John McCain". He'd need to have his attack ads ready to follow.

I find it hard to believe that no one in Obama's campaign has not studied the last 5 elections (back to 1988) and come up with counter-measures to the Rove playbook. It seems not. Then he needs to fire a couple of advisers and get in someone who has.

Alex S. said...

And the comment that Obama played the race card first, because he said that "he doesnt look like the other presidents on the dollar bill" -

take a look at your own campaign ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDTJDv4hevU&feature=related


I think we agree that Obama will not literally redesign Mount Rushmore. So the ad has a symbolic meaning, the meaning is that he doesn´t belong there, he is different.

Qute said...

Women are *not* going to vote for Palin because she's a woman. She's getting McCain's numbers up because she's perceived as a "maverick" and Obama appears to have abandoned the Change platform and moved closer to the Establishment. What matters most to Indies, most of whom are fiscal, not religious conservatives, is someone who will headbutt Washington and kick out the bums. Palin is popular because she is perceived as someone who would do that, someone who is more authentic as a Change agent. Exposing her as a fraud is one thing, moving the mo back to O is another, and both needs to be addressed *soon*.

Michael said...

Obama’s campaign should issue a kindergarten-level Report Card on Palin, using McCain’s own standards where possible, with grades formulated or endorsed by prominent Americans of both parties (former Cabinet secretaries, retired military, economists, policy experts, etc.) and supported by publicly reported comments and criticisms from credible sources. Stress should be put on violation of clearly established standards of conduct, falsehoods, and hypocrisy.

Suggested categories and related Palin conduct:
* Follows rules (troopergate)
* Functions independently (no solo campaign appearances)
* Seeks help when needed (reliance on speechwriters – ONE speech, teleprompter)
* Shares ideas willingly (refusal to cooperate with current investigation
* Works and plays cooperatively with others (various unilateral decisions)
* Respects property of others (raised taxes, Wasilla debt)
* Uses materials appropriately (appropriates materials: see bridge and road to nowhere)
* Makes relevant contributions to discussions (no unscripted contacts as candidate)
* Is responsible for own things (expensing home stays and family travel)
* Shares in clean-up (environmental record, denial of man-made climate crisis)
* Problem solves with respect to others’ needs (various self-serving actions)

Palin can even be given an “A” – hedged with well-worded caveats – for:
* Accepts new situations
* Shows positive attitude
* Demonstrates self-confidence (well-known dangers of overconfidence; remind you of anyone?)
* Respects authority (too much? the right ones – church vs state?)

A Palin Report Card would give the public easily grasped CONCLUSIONS well supported by facts which few are likely wade through. It also opens up a range of rhetorical approaches that use educational metaphors with an around-the-kitchen-table feel, such as “We’ve been learning a lot about Sarah Palin lately, but what does she KNOW about what matters to US?” or “Most Americans have given George W. Bush a failing grade. Now Republicans want to put Gov. Sarah Palin the nation’s next VP, a mere ‘heart beat away,’ as they say, from the most powerful office in the land. Maybe we should have looked more closely at Governor Bush’s credentials – a “C” average at Yale, no distinguished service, businesses that went bust – instead of judging him on his personality or taking his competence on faith. Sarah Palin has a record – a brief one – as a public servant and as her party’s VP nominee. What does HER RECORD tell us about what her FINAL GRADE might be?”

cora said...

so Lipstick is the new battlecry !
I'd go even further in lipsticking: not only a pig but also a pitbull.

footstep said...

I doesn't have to be the dreaded "card." The question is, could Obama really overtly say something like "As a black man, I am shattering another kind of ceiling - one that began with slavery..etc." or "What is the difference between me and a pitbull. I'm darker."

The point is that he can't even get too angry because of the angry black man fear. He has been very careful not to play himself as a racial candidate and that is a plus. BIden could diffuse all this in the VP debate with a simple Reagan-esque joke: "Let me begin by saying that I don't want any softer questions just because I am of retirement age."

markymark said...

I've been trying to think of new ways Obama can focus more on issues, and get the issue more on issues.

And here is a quick way I could come up with. Borrow from Gingrich's Contract With America, and Tony Blair's 'pledge card' (A card with 10 pledges of what he would do that he came out with before the 1997 General Election), and come up with 5-10 headline points that he will achieve
(I am not saying these are ones he should use, they are just examples of the language)
*guaranteed medical coverage for all
*All US troops out of Iraq by _____
*Tax cut for all earning less than _________
*Reduce the Federal Budget deficit.
*Help for all families whose houses are threatened by foreclosure
etc etc

footstep said...

Maybe this is one for Nate - how to beat this with a mathematical formula?

-Republicans say something that is not true. They then repeat it over an over again. (Gore says he invented the internet, Kerry is French, Palin said no thanks to the bridge from nowhere etc.)

Response 1: Ignore
Result: Dems lose as people believe it and media can't overtly call people liars.

Response 2: Call them out on it, but move on.
Result: Dems lose. Lies and slogans stick in the brain, nuanced explanations don't.

Response 3: Make news by calling them liars once or twice.
Result: Lose as opposition then calls you hysterical. You lose your own ability to spread positive message.

Response 4: Lie yourself.
Result: Lose. Republicans have a field day.

Response 5: Take every lie they say and call them liars over and over again. Make ads, t-shirts, mocking slogans and just don't stop, back down or hesitate until every single voter says to you automatically "Palin is the biggest pork spender of all." "McCain is a flip-flopping opportunist with a bad temper."
Result: Possible win. Elections are actually all about words and sub-conscious rote learning. If the (less educated) electorate remembers the seed you give them, then they will vote for you. That is a trick the Republicans have used over and over again. If the Dems want to win, they need to take things like McCain's housing gaffe and run with it all the way till the election, not forget about it after a week. You have to say the same thing over and over again, until people know it by heart. You have to say the same thing over and over again, until people know it by heart. (get it?)

Andy said...

RealClearPolitics has Ohio as a tie once again in it's polls average, as a result of the latest Quinnipiac poll.

OzJohnnie said...

markymark;

liars

Your problem, in a nutshell, is that word. What you call a lie is often not a lie. It may be an issue you don't agree on, and interpretation you think is wrong. But so rarely is it an actual lie. And for most voters that aren't obsessive political junkies, the word 'lie' means something really bad (which, of course, is why you use it so much). If it's really bad, then it must be used correctly.

You start doing things like pushing books called "Lies and the Lying Liars That Tell Them" kind of discredits all the ability of the left to call "Lie!"

Just like with Palin and the feral attack in the first three days of her nomination, you have over played your hand. By calling everything a lie, nothing is.

Oz.

OzJohnnie said...

That last comment should have been addressed to footstep and not markymark.

Oz.

markyt said...

New Ohio poll from Quinnipiac shows Obama ahead by 5 ! .... huge sample size, btw, almost 1400.

Nate ... humble request for you:

PLEASE do a post re. how the Ohio numbers would look if Rasmussen was taken out of the equation. Ras is the ONLY pollster over last 6 months to show McCain ahead in OH (other than the 1 point lead McCain had in a deeply flawed -- according to you and others -- Columbus Dispatch poll). It seems there's something in Ras Ohio model that is way off. Ras polls for virtually every other state seem to match up generally w/ other pollsters' predictions, but not Ohio for some weird reason. Thanks.

Jon said...

I wonder why 24 percent of Independents offer no opinion as to which ticket would bring change. I find it hilarious that Republicans feel so strongly that McCain and Palin represent change even though the Republicans controlled Congress through 2006 and have had the White House since 2001. Shouldn't they have tried to push for "change" then? I guess its deer-in-the-headlights syndrome with those folks.

Anyway...
*BREAKING POLLS*

Quinnipiac

Ohio
Obama 49
McCain 44

Pennsylvania
Obama 48
McCain 45

Florida
McCain 50
Obama 43

The polls were taken with likely voters from September 5-9. The Ohio sample size was 1,367 voters. The Pennsylvania sample size was 1,001 voters. The Florida sample size was 1,032 voters.

I find the Florida and Ohio numbers to be weird. Most pollsters have recently showed Ohio leaning towards McCain or in a dead heat, while Florida is becoming much more competitive for Obama the past few months. These results suggest the reverse.

Quinnipiac claims that in Florida, 25 percent of Clinton supports are backing McCain, up from 14 percent last month. Doesn't this defy the polling numbers showing Democrats becoming much more unified? I don't know what to think of Florida because there are so many new transplants and affluent suburbanites, along with a large elderly population, a solid Cuban base, and prominent Jewish and African-American communities. It seems to favor McCain, but the poll numbers are all over the place, and with such a diverse constituency, it seems difficult to figure out who will tip the state to a particular candidate.

Bryan said...

Other Quinnipiac results: FL is 50-43 McCain (from 47-43), and PA is 48-45 Obama (from 49-42).

Rhonda said...

Quick thought. Is it worth, given that the GOP seems wo want to tie Palin to McCain and have them campaign completely together, to find someway of breaking that up? Like a new stump joke? 'We'vew worked out how Sarah Palin has worked out her babycare problems- she's hired John McCain as her nanny.' Or suggesting the GOP won't dare put Palin on the stump seperately, because they don't have confidence in her?

A few more National Enquires, and Us, and uch articles int he gossip magazines might help bring Sarah Palin down. But she is tough, but maybe if it keeps on, we have a chance. She will wallow in her own dirt. No one will believe her at the debates, if the magazines and bad publicity continues. Ofcourse, that doesn't stop the absentee ballots.
New ads will help. I watched Obama last night on David Letterman. Great show! more publicity, call them hippocrits, and continue to bash them and don't stop.

footstep said...

OzJohnnie:

Not sure I agree. The "hysterical left" tag is used too often. I've read that book by Al Franken, and it was quite amusing, I thought. Bill O'Reilly really is a liar.

It was fascinating to watch Gore-Bush debate their respective tax plans back in 2000. Bush's actually offered smaller tax cuts for most people than Gore's, but that is not what most people eneded up believing. Much of the electorate chose the comfotable slogan over the nuanced truth - Bush appealed to an almost gutteral aversion to intellectualism, one that somehow makes a Republican more American than a Democrat. It is as if Republican means "cowboy", and Democrat means "Indian."

Remember how excited Republicans were when Fred Thompson announced his candidacy? It was the old cowboy riding into town thing again. The fact that he had so many obvious weaknesses and limitations didn't matter for that brief moment of "huray!" Now it is Palin that is getting that moment of blind faith.

Sedi said...

Folks,
Pay no attention to those Quinnipiac polls. Sure, it is a highly rated, unbiased pollster that always has huge sample sizes. But the OH result must be wrong since lots of people who post on this blog have told me flat-out that the KNOW that Obama won't win OH. They must be right, of course, so this set of Q-polls must be wrong. Plus, Rasmussen had a small-sample-size poll out a few days ago showing a McCain lead (though no other serious pollster has shown a McCain lead since May), so there's even more proof. Please, folks, ignore the evidence in front of you now and realize that Obama can't win OH.

joel said...

The Q numbers are good for Obama. If he wins Ohio it`s pretty much over for McCain, hard to see how he gets to 270 without ohio.
Seems like PA. has gotten pretty close but If your not for McCain now doubtful. you will move to him in November.
Obama better pull out of marginal states and concentrate on Ohio, florida, Pa and Mi and I think he will win.
For what it`s worth my neighbor is an astrologer and she says based on the stars Obama will win the election. She also says Obama faces danger 9-15 to 9-20.
She called 2004 on the nose,saying bush would win by taking one big state by a nose.

terror byte presents said...

Hey I heard Sarah Palin was the frontrunner in the US elections... oh thats right she the running mate of that old guy who doesnt know how to use email and refers to pigs with lipstick all the time! Palin is Bush in drag.

tibor75 said...

I agree, the Q results are good for Obama. I gotta laugh at the Halperin headline: "PALIN BOOSTS MCCAIN IN FLORIDA, OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA"

Uh, sorry, if McCain can't pull ahead in a single poll in PA even after this weeklong lovefest, it's going to be uphill for him. Sure, it's close, and it was close for Kerry and Gore too. And Obama can't afford to lose any ground because he has zero chance of winning without PA. But still, he's ahead. And the OHio results are very good.

That being said, maybe Nate can talk about the huge difference in FL and OH between Q and Rasmussen. It's really bizarre.

sarasotajoe said...

markyt,

In April and May (4-5 months ago) there were two Quinnipiac polls and a SUSA poll with McCain ahead in OH. That said, you have a point that out of the last 14 polls in OH, only the four Ras polls and the one Columbus DIspatch poll had McCain ahead. And the latest Quinnipiac poll is highly encouraging (though their result in Florida not so much).

Charles M. Kozierok said...

The numbers are still in a state of flux. Voters are in the "honeymoon" phase of their relationship with Her Royal Highness, Princess Sarah Palin, Precious Flower Who Must Be Revered At All Times. The McCain campaign has painted a ridiculously rosy narrative of her, pumped it up at the convention, had her run around the country giving a speech full of lies, and then ensured nobody could question her.

Not surprising that it would work. It's a great propaganda campaign.

But it's not going to last. At some point she has to come out from her bear cave and face the people she wants to lead. At some point, those people will want hard answers to hard questions.

By creating a cult of personality around Her Royal Highness, Sarah Palin, Precious Flower Who Must Be Revered At All Times, John McCain has set himself up for an equally quick fall once people get to know her better.

In addition, she's been a rather major turnoff for lots of people in key states. If that Ohio poll is anywhere near correct, McCain has a problem.

Andy said...

That Ohio poll is great news for Obama. He just needs a few more polls like that in Ohio to confirm it.

Darío said...

God bless the Victims of the 9/11.

TroutyLuc said...

But if Democrats outnumber Republicans and if DEM are stronger with on the ground get out the vote ressources then this poll looks good to me.

Citizen Grim said...

Nate, the Obama camp does not want to make an issue out of earmarks, because McCain and Palin, despite their indiscretions have a far better record on that issue, and it's perceived that even if they were wrong at one point, at least they have the correct position now. Obama and Biden don't need to stir up ads labelling them as "unrepentent earmarkers." For that matter, Obama would probably like to keep the money flow to his wife's employer as quiet as possible, because regardless of the facts, it's going to look fishy to the public. Old fishy.

Darío said...

And now my opinion.
The Q polls are good for Obama in Ohio but no in Florida.
Forgot to see a blue Florida.
In PA the average for Obama is less but i think he win the state at the end.

quantman said...

Major Economic disaster is nearly upon us.

Markets look like they crash today and counterparty risk is very high.

Dominoes could fall and ripple effect of Lehman and Washington Mutual and others failings could cascade down further.

Please watch out!

Homespun1 said...

The blowback is happening right.......wait for it...now. I think we are going to be seeing alot more balanced coverage of the Governor from Alaska. I think that the MSM is starting to feel used by the McCain campaign and you can get a sense of it by looking around at the most recent articles about McCain/Palin campaign, the MSM seem to losing their shine for the "Talk out the Side of your Mouth Express" or alternately the "Two faced Express".

Though there was a huge amount of unsubstantiated blog hyperbole garbage about Palin in the days after the convention, we are starting to see the real dirty laundry hung out to dry.

When every major media outlet other than Faux News is calling McCain's campaign a liar, there is a change in the air.

Now for all the defeatist and/or pseudo-defeatist, just calm down. If you are really so worried about the Democratic cause then get off your butt and go knock on some doors. I have been doing everyday for an hour after I get home from work. Let me tell you there are alot of people out there that are uninformed. If you need some paperwork to support Obama's policies, go to the website and get your local Obama field office and go by and pick up some pamphlets.

Obama IS standing up to these snake oil peddlers!

McCain has become a one trick pony and the media is getting tired of the same lying cheating conniving trick.

Cheers to all.

Homespun1 said...

Most Americans have no idea what an earmark is, it is we the politonuts that know this stuff inside out and upside down.

Ask the guy at the cash register what is an earmark? 1 in 10 give you an answer.

Overrated said...

Sedi -

I'll take that bet. OH goes south on McCain while all the other midwest tighens toward McCain? You have high hopes for OH, like your VA, well....

FloridaGOP said...

@Dario, Thanks for the reminder,
The 2nd plane hits at 9:03 AM. I still do not like watching this.

zozie said...

This DKos diary by greginga from a couple of days ago is talking your language.

I really think hitting hard on the pig thing and not letting go and tying it directly to McCain's policies with questions: What is McCain's policy on the banking crisis? What is McCain's policy on Iran? What will McCain do in Georgia in Eastern Europe? Are we ready for a third war?

And staying funny - might change the discussion. I am so not looking forward to the "deferential interview" of Palin. Hope ABC News has lots of gauze to throw over the lens and make it all misty looking.

markymark said...

I wonder how long McCain-Palin can continue not to address issues? I mean there own issues. They should be asked in every interview they give what are there plans for healthcare or for education or whatever.

I heard McCain saying it was Obama's fault the campaign had gone negative as he didn't agree to the Town Halls McCain 'wanted'. (Which makes me think they were a tactic to allow the campaign to go negative.) That strikes me as a plain nutty argument. I mean we won't have Town Halls so I get to call you names, and slander and lie about you? Ridiculous.

Toby said...

Some pro-Obama feminists have come up with some good ideas on this one ...

Sarah Palin is a feisty, tough opponent who introduced herself as "a pit bull with lipstick".

McCain and his (male) Republican party are just being so old-fashioned and fuddy-duddy by rushing to the defence of someone who can defend herself just fine ....

It would capture the age gap, and the fundamental mismatch between McCain and Palin.

Homespun1 said...

Quantman is our resident economic Hyakuist...

Ian Burns said...

Just a reminder of how low Republicans are willing to go. No one should be campaigning on the backs of the dead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDx80bnFrVs

davelondon said...

Istn the latest pretend conotroversies a way of attempting to divert a possible rebalancing of Palin by the media?

Anyways If BO wins OH its clearly all over.

One last thing umm not sure what to say other than I was a tourist NY Aug 01. I found it to be the friendliest city i had ever visited and there are plenty of people in the uk thinking about 11/9 and its sad consequences for the world.

joel said...

TODAYS RASMUSSEN POLL TIED AT 48%. SEEMS LIKE THE RACE IS STABLE UNTIL THE FIRST DEBATE NOW.
If you throw out the gallup which seems to be an outlier all the other polls show a dead heat nationally.

Thinker said...

Is there any truth to the story that the major pollsters are sampling Republicans and Democrats in equal numbers now, as opposed to how they are actually reflected in the total population--slightly more Dems than Repubs?

Last week, Seth Colter Walls at the Huffington Post ("Poll Madness: McCain Takes Lead Even As Democrats Out-Register Republicans?") said that the major polling organizations have admitted they are skewing Republican in their sampling. Of course that would make it look like McCain has a bigger bounce than he really does out here in realpeople land.

If this sampling is good methodology, then go ahead and sample equal numbers of Ron Paul or Ralph Nader fans to McCain and Obama, and they'll probably beat both candidates, too. Gimme a break.

Darío said...

Nate, in your proyection McCain is leaning in Colorado.

IMHO said...

Anyone ever think that voter registration drives are tainted by the fact the people trying to register people are paid piecemeal? ACORN seems to have systematic problems with fake registrants.

I know I give a lot less credence to new registrant numbers since them seem to defy election results.

Bryan said...

Reminder: today will be the first day that the Research 2000 tracker releases results. They'll also have NC results today.

Reader said...

And staying funny - might change the discussion.

Absolutely it will. If there's one thing John McCain can't stand, it's being mocked - and the notion that his adminstration would in any meaningful way represent "change" from the last eight years is eminently mockable. I have yet to speak to a Republican who can articulate anything specific that McCain/Palin would actually change. The Democratic platform is much better defined, and zinging these differences right back at McCain's head, using jokes at his expense to open the door, is the way to beat him.

Also, OzJohnnie, the massive overuse of the word "lie" to the point of farce comes straight from the Karl Rove playbook circa 2000. It's not a Democratic invention. But admittedly the Republicans seem to have a lock on mock outrage at this point.

dominoid73 said...

Rasmussen Daily
Obama - 48
McCain - 48

quantman said...

THE reason for my asking people to pay attention to the world equity and debt markets is simple!

- Banking system is under systemic default threads

- If things unwind, then it's feeding frenzy

- we will see pictures on TV of people lining up near Washington Mutual and a number of mid and small size banks across the country (all at the same time) to withdraw funds.

- That will then create a scare that builds on itself

- This then makes it difficult for banks to lend, or refinance current debt for automotive guys like GM and Ford, whose auto loan business financials are in VERY big trouble

- If GM or Ford files for bankruptcy then MI, PA, OH will all be affected

- THIS can have a huge impact on the elections!!

- That is why people need to pay attention, as well for themselves and their finances.

Jim said...

Insightful analysis- but be careful not to read your own prejudices into the earmark argument, or the lipstick one. Alaska's waste and earmark spending aren't going away overnight- but they've more than halved since Palin took office. It's not a silver bullet.

Also, while the McCain campaign needs to drop the lipstick outrage quickly, "attacking the attack" was not a smart strategy for Kerry. Obama needs to stay on message, and not look like he's trying to double down on what many, fairly or not, took as a cheap shot at Palin.

NB: Quayle was a huge liability for Bush in 1988? What would he have won without him, 45 states?

Overrated said...

Quantman -

If your melt-down scenario does take place, I can promise you that it is not good news for Obama. Risk aversion pertains to this election much like the current state of the market

Darío said...

Rasmussen 48-48.
Now poll in Michigan today.

Bryan said...

Rove ought to know this, because he knows all about attacking an opponent's strength.

Oh, I'll bet he knows it.

Jackson said...

With Rasmussen remaining tied even as the likes of Montana and North Dakota lurch towards McCain, there must also be a lurch somewhere towards Obama.

Today's Quinnipiac has Obama up 5 in Ohio, which is even better than Obama's 3 point lead in Pennsylvania.

Paul said...

Is it possible that the polling question about "the right change" is biased?

It presupposes that both candidates will bring change and then asks which change will be better.

I think the answer might be different if the question were phrased: "Regardless of how you might vote, which presidential ticket do you think will bring change to Washington?"

justin32099 said...

Paul: I agree totally. To me, the question "which candidate will bring the right change?" is really no different from 'which candidate do you support." If you think Obama is going to bring the right change and you're not voting for him....um, why not?

It's hard to write a poll question, IMO, that doesn't ultimately ask the question "who do you support?" Only so many ways to put lipstick on the pig. (And no, that was not a personal attack on Sarah Palin.)

PeteKent said...

Quinn polls traditionally understate McCain strength; OH poll is an outlier is this regard.

More shattering news for Obama is the Ras NM poll. A huge reversal for him. Hispanics seem to be rallying and it is very possible that Palin is having broad (ahem!) appeal in the West.

Camille Paglia's article in Salon yesterday, which you can find in yesterday's Real Clear Politics archive, demonstrates Palin's true feminist appeal. She is not to be judged by the standards of old line feminists like Gloria Steinham whom Ms. Paglia points out have become Democratic party hacks.

Paglia also points out that Palin has a frontier woman's appeal, esp. to resilient western and women and women who like among trees!

Palin is not courting the harpy vote. The shrill, strident man-hating Dem women who have made the murder of innocents in the womb the litmos test of their support.

BTW, it seems the number of comments have declined precipitiously over the past day or so.

I think the Obama folks are a very dispirited lot.

And they have good cause to be!

Everywhere you look, you are losing!

Fun for moment . . . where will the comeback come from?

quantman said...

Well, Mr. Overrated:

- IF gets real bad, people always look for answers not from God, but something more tangible like the Govt

- I don't agree with this but the common person will think that way. History shows this. They will want something like the New Deal, with huge govt infrastructure and the like

- If people can't buy cars, and very little auto financing is available and used repo cars are stocked up the wazoo in used car lots, How many new cars do you think Ford and GM will sell???!!

- It's the auto industry, the auto industry's ecosystem, the real estate market and the home builder ecosystem (i.e construction) which employs tens of millions of people which will be critically impacted

- I will be fine, you probably will too! BUT the family that makes under $60K in income per year, will be devasted.

- All one has to do is play McCain himself saying he does not understand the economy much a million times on TV and that should do the trick

- Tax cuts ONLY work IF people have jobs and income, where they pay taxes!

- If they have losses and no income, where do they go: TO the Govt. And they KNOW, their friends in such a situation will NOT be the rich and greedy Republicans!!

Eric said...

It feels like the Midwest battleground (Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania) and West battleground (Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada) are very hard to gauge right now. One thing seems certain, if Obama sweeps the Midwest battleground, he's won the election, if McCain wins 2 of 3, he's got it. These polls are crazy, expecially Ohio and New Mexico.

Eric said...

It feels like the Midwest battleground (Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania) and West battleground (Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada) are very hard to gauge right now. One thing seems certain, if Obama sweeps the Midwest battleground, he's won the election, if McCain wins 2 of 3, he's got it. These polls are crazy, expecially Ohio and New Mexico.

johnsonct5 said...

Overrated said:
"If your melt-down scenario does take place, I can promise you that it is not good news for Obama."

I guess that's a why a so-called free market republican keeps on intervening finacial markets, because they want Obama to win.

Relyzinger said...

Here is my take on this Palin issue; she had no effect whatsoever on anything, the republican base panicked and rushed behind McCain like the way the democratic base panicked when Jennifer Flowers story broke and rushed behind Clinton. Well Clinton won. So McCain might win too. But I doubt anyone thought McCain did not have a chance. This is America. We give everyone a chance.

Now the Republican base panicked because it was a senile decision. People suspected that his cognitive function was somewhat lacking but this proved that it was real and happening. So they rushed behind the second guy; Palin. So I think this is different than the Bush/Quayle ticket. Even for Republicans.

How to deal with it? Earmarks. I am an economist and every time McCain uses the word earmark I want to shout at the TV set. in 2007 total federal receipts were $2.3 trillion. Total federal spending? $2.8 trillion. WHOA right? Federal government is borrowing in an unprecedented way and they are not even supposed to be spending the social security and medicare taxes anyways, which they are. McCain used to say that they're spending like drunken sailors but apparently he changed his mind along the way. He wants to talk about earmarks; lets talk about it; total earmarks in 2007:
$2.8 billion. Yes. That is 0.1 percent. 1/1000th of the federal budget. Everytime McCain wants to talk about earmarks, I imagine him as the senile guy on a big corporations board whining about how much money the company is spending on erasers. Guess what cute old guy? Corporation is going bankrupt. Corporation is spending $200 billion in Iraq while it is borrowing $500 billion a year, spending the medicare and social security taxes that are supposed to be saved for future since we promised to pay it back, taking over Fannie and Freddie so that now we are promising to pay up to $200 billion in loans if they fail (i can go on forever) and you want to cut eraser spending? Good for you.

So that is how he lost my vote; I was strongly for him during the primaries by the way. But man! I don't care if his VP choice is hypocritical. His main point is demented. If the democrats can make this clear, they'll win.

dominoid73 said...

"Most pollsters have recently showed Ohio leaning towards McCain or in a dead heat"

Actually as pointed out, only Rasmussen has shown a lead in Ohio in any recent polling. CNN & Quinnipiac have consistently shown Obamam leads in Ohio.

Kennyb said...

Guys, I know we are all political and polling addicts, but let's remember that the race is in flux now. It will settle down in a couple weeks, maybe with a permanent McCain bump, maybe back to a small but comfortable Obama lead, but the polling for this week will be weird. Let's also remember that these polls have margins of error. We cannot possibily draw conclusions about how a state is going to vote by looking at an Obama +1 poll versus a McCain +1 poll. Some of the polling changes are always just noise. And lastly, remember the victims of September 11 with the honor and non-partisan deference that they deserve.

p smith said...

The Ohio poll is great news for Obama and the question is whether Quinnipiac or Rasmussen is right. I'd put more faith in Quinnipiac although that means accepting that McCain is likely to hold Florida.

The discrepancy in the Quinnipiac polls between the proportion of Hillary voters who are voting McCain (20-25%) and the fact that Dems unified after the conventions is easily explained. If you look at the cross tabs, it confirms that in all 3 states polled, Obama only loses 10% of Dems to McCain. What we can safely conclude therefore is that many of the McCain supporting Hillary backers, are not Dems but were Republicans looking to skew the Dem primary. The reality is that Obama is not going to win back all of that 20-25% of Hillary supporters because some of them never had any intention of voting Dem in the general election.

On pig-gate, watch this story die. The McCain team were clearly surprised by the ferocity of the backlash on this. Even Bill O'Reilly said he believed Obama and that McCain should back off or face a backlash. With the 9/11 anniversary today, all this crap will drop off and we'll see how things stand tomorrow after Palin's interview with ABC news.

I will fucking kill Charlie Gibson personally if he gives her a soft ride and they show the two of them visiting kitsch Alaskan scenes like two long lost lovers. My guess is that Charlie will share the view of the MSM that they have been duped thus far by the McCain campaign and if he doesn't vet her properly, he will be a laughing stock. We shall see.

dominoid73 said...

Didn't Gallup say they were changing from registered voters to likely voters after the conventions? That could explain their gap in the daily tracker because they were McCain +7 from reigseter to likely voters in the Gallup/USA Today poll. They have some weird likely voter algorithm.

PeteKent said...

Obama seems in real trouble in the mid-west. it is unlikely that the race is closer in OH than PA, but poll aftert poll is showing PA to have narrowed considerably there and in MI as well.

I expect McCain now to hold the West thanks to Plain and his new refromist image and take at least OH and MI.

PA will be taken in the evnt that this turns into a rout like Bus v. Dukakis.

The debates could very well do that to Obama.

I am betting also that Governor Palin will start coming out of the cocoon and will acquit herself real well with the media. Charlie Gibson alone over the next two days should shut a lot of Palin bashers up and should add a couple of points in the polls.

Palin is enormously popular and generates a lot of supprt and enthusiasm whenever she appears. She has been managed brillianly by McGenius, much to the consternation of OLoser.

Overrated said...

Quantman -

If we reach financial disaster (which I doubt) then yes, it will take big gov't and it will reflect a similar New Deal position. My pt however is that the more uncertainty that is created, the more risk aversion people will share. Despite the echo chamber on liberal blog sites, Obama and risk aversion do not go hand-n-hand. Market meltdown or International incident of epic size will not favor the community organizer from Chicago.

Eric said...

PeteKent, you don't seem to want to blog "fair and balanced". I guess you're representing the Sean Hannity crowd out there. That's fine I guess.

Do me a favor if you're so sure that McCain's got Ohio in the bag, get in touch with your people and tell the GOP camp they should pull out there, because they have nothing to worry about.

To me this election is probably down to 6 states if we're close at the end.

Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan
Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico

bryen193 said...

"Quinn polls traditionally understate McCain strength; OH poll is an outlier is this regard."

Yes indeed, the Quinnipiac poll of Ohio is definitely an outlier understating McCain's strength, compaired to the obviously more accurate Rassmussen poll.

Also, the Rassmussen poll of Florida is definitely an outlier that's understating McCain's strength compaired to the obviously more accurate Quinnipiac poll.

Daniel said...

This race seems to be approaching the 2000 election in terms of state by state electoral polarization. Replace CO for FL as the state that will be within 0.1% to decide the election.

As depressing as the last couple of weeks have been for Obama supporters (like me) -- it's not like McCain has landed the knockout punch. We just finished the 12th round, McCain won the round easily. But we're in the 13th round now and Obama seems to have steadied somewhat.

Today is a 'cease fire' day in terms of campaigning. A good thing for Obama because the 'lipstick' stuff probably filters out of the MSM rhetoric and perhaps issues take center stage tomorrow.

All in all, as horrendous as the Palin pick has been to the Obama campaign, he is even with McCain after McCain has established his high water mark.

If RAS has this thing dead even nationally while McCain has expanded his leads in red states like AK, MT, ND then Obama should be doing just fine in blue states and purple states.

I still think McCain is the favorite to win this thing because Obama's campaign keeps making blunder after blunder.

Eric said...

PeteKent said...
Obama seems in real trouble in the mid-west. it is unlikely that the race is closer in OH than PA, but poll aftert poll is showing PA to have narrowed considerably there and in MI as well.

I expect McCain now to hold the West thanks to Plain and his new refromist image and take at least OH and MI.

I would argue the opposite! If the election were held today, I believe McCain would Gore it. He'd win the popular and lose the electoral. Obama wins Mich, Penn, Colo, NM. Nevada and Ohio too close to call. I'm assuming today McCain is ahead in popular +1. To think differently, you'd have to assume that not only will 100% of this bounce stick, but it will become a trend that grows. May or may not happen, but not super-likely.

dominoid73 said...

bryen193 - LOL

Overrated said...

What happened to Obama's 50 state strategy? In August it became 18. I imagine by Oct in will be 4 with a major defense of all the Midwest. Hype, baby, Hype.

quantman said...

Overrated:

Risk aversion in military and/or defense matters will favor McCain and the Repubs, BUT not when it comes to Economy and Jobs!

- Pretty soon I am sure the Obama camp will be playing McCain himself saying he does not really understand the economy.

-The Obama camp should probably plough $30 Million of this same ad, AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, into the battleground states of MI, OH, PA, VA, FL and NV (last 2 due to housing and the impact on that on the FL and NV economy).

- McCain looks too old and is too old. Is a military man and POW. Just about everybody knows that he never to a regular college (Naval academy only) and never held a real job in the private sector.

-Old guys look better when it comes to defense. McCain has very little credibility on defense, that is why he is 100% about the war and Iraq, with tax cuts thrown in for good measure.

IN the end this ELECTION in the above battleground states WILL COME DOWN TO, the government please help ME, please for tens of millions of voters!

Security means little if one has no money to eat or carry on a normal life with the basics of food, shelter and clothing for the parents and their kids!

McCain does not address that and seems to exude no passion in this area whatsoever!

Andy1979 said...

Rasmussen:
Florida 48-48
Ohio 51-44 McCain

Quinnipiac:
Florida 50-43 McCain
Ohio: 49-44 Obama

You see what all these polls means. Nothing! :D

bryen193 said...

" will fucking kill Charlie Gibson personally if he gives her a soft ride and they show the two of them visiting kitsch Alaskan scenes like two long lost lovers."

Governor Palin, some of us in the media have been heavily criticzed along with various "bloggers" on the internet for conducting a smear campaign against you and your family. It must be very difficult to hear these types of things said about your defenseless children. How are you holding up?

quantman said...

BUSH is on TV, all the networks. This is great!

75% of the audience is looking at his face and is pissed off!!

Keep him up there for HOURS folks!!

Let's get the electorate to remember who is in charge NOW and who has been in charge for the past 8 years!!! BUSH Republicans and Karl Rove and Dick the dick Cheney!

I love it!! Keep THE man on TV all the time!

Overrated said...

Quantman -

that seems logical - As the economy goes south and financial markets sell-off, Obama gains votes. I would argue that Americans want change but not radical change. There is a great deal of uncertainty in the public's mind. The more uncertain things become, the more likely the public will be less willing to take risk. When the curtain closes on Nov 4 and the voter actually has to make a decision, I think people may be shocked at how profoundly this nation will reject Obama. Just a hunch. Many states have 10% or more that are undecided or say they might change their mind before Nov. If it truly was "Its the economy, stupid" then BO would be up 10+ in several midwest ststes. Obama is in a major battle in Michigan and it has the highest unemployment rate in the nation at 8.5%. Go figure? Americans are not in the mode to take risks, especially on a rehash of John Kerry - but this time with a different skin color and a funky sounding name.

quantman said...

The comment on Gallup's shift after the conventions to move from Registered Voters to Likely voters algorithm is a KEY point, in the Gallup numbers the last few days.

The key difference between Gallup and Rasmussen, or even the WSJ poll, is that Gallup is overstating Republican % for LIkely Voters in their stats, BECAUSE of the past voter history.

- Gallup has disregarded the shift in new Democratic voter registrations in many key states and also the pent up utter distaste for Bush in the voting public.

- Therefore, Gallup has a decidedly Repub bias, not in their minds, but rather in the stats, due to this likely voter mix % being so off from current reality.

Jackson said...

Quinnipiac:
Florida 50-43 McCain
Ohio: 49-44 Obama

You see what all these polls means. Nothing! :D


Pretty much. The election will be decided by turnout among key demographics.

Blame said...

Rasmussen polls in Ohio shifty a long way Republican relative to the others.

Odd. This seems to be a state effect. Ignoring Rassmussen Ohio has polled cosistently Obama or close.

All told I believe the Qinnipac Obama +5 result is a fare statment of what non-Rasmussen polls would get.

Regardless the rasmussen result does not deserve as much respect because it was held on a single day. There is an awful lot of jitter in single day results.

Panic not people. Ohio is every bit as much in play as Michigan or Pennsylvania.

The Election will now be won or lost on Palin. She has stired the pot, loosing almost as many votes as she has gained. Should her negatives rise those losses will be staggering.

After the spending of something like a billion dollars by the candidates the final result is probably up to the National Enquirer.

It is a sad truth that the fate of the most powerful nation on earth is in the hands of a gossip magazine.

Jim said...

Relyzinger,

You are missing the main point about earmarks. They are not a large piece of the budget, that's true, and they merely allocate money set to be spent anyway. However, they encourage the kind of bribery and horse-trading (fund my projects and support my bills, and you'll get some sugar)that has given Congress it's sterling approval ratings today. It's only a step, but it's a significant symbolic one, with real, tangible effects on the incentives of congress-folk.

whispers said...

Nate, I'm curious as to why you think it would fail if the Democrats were to make personal attacks against Palin. It seems to me that personal attacks have proven themselves to be the weapon of choice in political campaigns over the past few decades, and indeed, it is hard to think of a Presidential race that didn't turn on effective personal attacks.

With that in mind, why do you think that personal attacks will fail? It seems to me that this is a knee-jerk reaction of the mindset that says that Democrats should never use personal attacks, since they will always fail. And yet, the Republicans can use personal attacks that are supposed to fail (like accusing a thrice-decorated war hero of being a fraud) and get traction out of them.

Personally, I think personal attacks in the right place and manner are needed to take lightweight Palin down a few notches. It is absurd to say that, because she has a positive aura right now, the Obama campaign shouldn't even try to tarnish her image.

whispers said...

More to the point, if your expertise is in interpreting polls, why do you consider yourself an expert on strategy?

whispers said...

overrated: the 50-state strategy is a long-term project. It doesn't mean Obama is going to spend as much time campaigning in Utah as in Ohio or Florida. It means that the Democratic party isn't simply going to write off traditionally red states.

Also, the 50-state strategy is not an Obama idea. Nor is it about the Presidential race.

What party controls the governorship in Kansas and Montana?

You need to pay better attention to facts. If you only see hype, that's because you're only looking for hype.

Chun said...

Quantman

You forget that today is political bizzaro day. Bush is popular, Rumsfield is a heroic leader, and Cheney shoots old men in the face with flowers.

Mike said...

I can't figure why Obama hasn't jumped on the "Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?" line?

It would hammer McCain.

"8 years ago... we had a Democratic president and we had the most fruitful 8 year period since World War II. [Or whatever... something to make 1993-2000 be remembered fondly]. Gas was $1.50. Unemployment was 3%. We weren't mired in 2 wars and prodding Iran and Russia with sticks, trying to cause 2 more. And then George Bush became president. We were attacked on our own soil by Al Quieda 7 years ago, and Osama Bin Laden is still roaming free. Gas costs have nearly tripled. The national debt has doubled. And unemployment is the highest it's been in 50 years. Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago? You see, John McCain represents a 3rd term for George Bush. He's voted with him more and more every year for the last 3 years. He may have been a maverick at one point, but he's since fallen in step with the same failed Bush policies that got us in the weakened position we are in now. He talks about change alot lately, but I his definition of change sounds alot different than our definition of change."

That line of attack would suck the air out of McCain's momentum real quick... I just can't understand why he's not doing that more forcefully!

justin32099 said...

mike--
I do think that message with resonate with voters. However, I would certainly leave any reference to 9/11 as it would certainly be interpreted as blaming the attacks on Bush. I think 9/11 should be left out of all propaganda whatsoever. I think the way the GOP used it as a rallying tool was disgusting and don't even get me started on that scumbag Giuliani.

The point is that though. Bush's presidency has been a failure, which most of the country (certainly anyone who isn't blindly voting for McCain anyway) accepts and believes. Obama has said clearly "If you are happy with the Bush presidency, vote for McCain...if you aren't, vote for me." If this presidency is about whether Bush's policies (which are exactly equivalent to McCain's) are what the country needs, the election will be a blowout.

Everything cooling down with the 9/11 pause and nonpartisan event should allow the campaign to refocus. Enough with the games, enough with the lies, get voters to decide on who is going to do the right thing for the country.

quantman said...

FRom the Washington Post.com:

Obama camp people tell the Wash Post that Obama broke his previous fund raising record of $55 Million, in August.

They did not say by how much. This will be known on Sep 20th, the last date for filings.

MY guess is that the number is over $60 million.

Sep is likely to be at least $75 Million. Oct likely will hit $100 Million.

Jason said...

Obama's fundamental problem is he's a black man telling people how bad things are in this country. People don't want to hear it, even if it's true, and they especially don't want to hear it from a minority.

The McCain-Palin package is prettier. The old war hero and the pretty, tough gal. It doeshn't matter if what's inside the package is ugly. People don't want to look. They want to believe America is great. To many, those two symbolize it.

Obama was better off before he became so detailed and full of substance. In a general election, people don't vote substance. If they did, Bush never would have won.

RanxeroxVox said...

Karl Rove doesn't think Obama should go after Palin?

I don't know if Obama is using Rove's playbook, but this is certainly a page from it: Attack Your Opponent's Strength.

McCain's only strength right now *is* Palin. Get her on the defensive sooner rather than later, give her no honeymoon, no time free from attacks, point out every little inconsistency and gaffe, and McCain will have that much less on his side. If Obama can remove her from the equation early, McCain is an easier target later.

RV

markymark said...

One or tewo people here seem to be challenging the 50 state strategy. I think one thing the 50 state strategy has done is open up the fireld a bit and mean that areas such as the west are approachable for Democrats. Some people might have preferred an election strategy that is basically geared to getting 270 ECVs, as if thats the sole purpose of the Democratic Party. One of the reasons the GOP has caught up the Democratic Party nationally in the last 20 years is an understanding of the importance of building an electoral strategy from the bottom up. Winning town council elections, small town mayoralties, are important.

Now what all this does to Barack Obama and the Democratic Party nationally is give it a wider base. Without the 50 state strategy, do you think many Democrats would give Montana a second look?

Relyzinger said...

Jim said...

You are missing the main point about earmarks. They are not a large piece of the budget, that's true, and they merely allocate money set to be spent anyway. However, they encourage the kind of bribery and horse-trading (fund my projects and support my bills, and you'll get some sugar)that has given Congress it's sterling approval ratings today. It's only a step, but it's a significant symbolic one, with real, tangible effects on the incentives of congress-folk.


Agreed. But you don't talk about erasers as the CEO of a corporation; you let the accountants deal with that and you talk about long term strategy. I mean if you were to buy a stock and the CEO kept talking about cutting the stationary expenses, would you buy that stock? As a senator (or as an accountant) it definitely made him look good. But as a presidential candidate (or in our example as the head of the corporation)? It is petty.

If we're talking about corruption in Washington; it is the lobbyists. Cut the lobbying activity, you cut earmarks. Cut earmarks, you save 1/1000th of the federal budget and the corporations keep getting their pork. But he does not want to talk about that when most of his top campaign managers are lobbyists now does he? As I said it is petty. He had my vote and lost it.

Qute said...

Bad economic news = Obama Blowout, no question about it. If it's just a teeny, tiny Recession to Nowhere like Bush & Bernanke are trying to sell us, they wouldn't be bailing out Freddie & Fannie, Citi, WaMu & Lehman. It's a loud sucking HISS, sucking voters away from the reviled Republican Party. I won't be surprised if guillotines make a comeback. Do you think voters will be in the mood to elect an arriviste aristocrat who married Marie Antionette and owns 8 chateaux?

Call out Palin if you must, but for Obama to get back his mojo, he has to HIT HARD about the bread and butter issues EVERYWHERE around us, encourage the storming of the Bastille. This scares the Brioni suits like nothing else on earth.

bryen193 said...

"Personally, I think personal attacks in the right place and manner are needed to take lightweight Palin down a few notches."

Of course. McCain has put himself in a weird position of being on the rise, but that rise being entirely dependent on and tied to his running mate. If she goes down, he goes down. Has it ever happened in presidential politics where the running mate, out of nowhere, became the most important force in the campaign - totally overshadowing the actual nominee? Is there any precedent to this? Karl Rove knows the situation, and his "advice" to Obama this morning - don't campaign against Sarah Palin - confirms this. Thanks, but no thanks Karl.

The Obama campaign needs to come up with a coherent message on Sarah Palin, and they need to do it now. Obama out there on the second day, admonishing reporters not to attack her family was his strongest moment of the "Palin rollout", but unfortunately was followed up with nothing of substance and nothing coherent. Instead of projecting shock and horror that McCain BROKE HIS PLEDGE to seek the person most prepared to step into the presidency in the event of something unforseen, and instead selected the candidate most representative of the FAR RIGHT FRINGE (the two capitalized phrases should have been recited over and over by every Obama surrogate in the days between her naming and her convention speech), they mumbled nonsense and congratulations about nomination. They made it so Palin had no neccessity to answer any charges or justify herself in any way in her convention speech.

Now that Palin was free to define herself (as oppose to justify herself) for an audience of 40 mil, it will be doubly difficult for the dems to define her now.

applecrispbetty said...

Palin's support is at a high water mark now. Almost every day something new is revealed about her which is negative. This would tend to diminish support for her ticket not increase it.

bryen193 said...

"Palin's support is at a high water mark now. Almost every day something new is revealed about her which is negative. This would tend to diminish support for her ticket not increase it."

The biggest mistake that the Obama campaign could make is to sit passively and expect the news media to take down Palin.

RidleyGriff said...

What about tying Palin to Bush?

I had posited in a DKos diary earlier this week that the Dems needed to take away Palin's persona as a Reformer, as it was what allowing McCain to run against the GOP.

However, many elements of her candidacy are extraordinarily similar to that of Bush himself, as demonstrated in this ad. Would trying to link her to Bush be an effective rebuttal against her reformer street cred?

dave in boca said...

Sarah should just silently accompany the old war hero & keep giving Barack the space to fall on his face.

You know that Sarah is bouncing around inside Obama's melon on a 24/7 basis and to watch the YouTube is to see that Barry was trying a snarky stand-up schtick that went horribly wrong. The first half had the crowd in titters as it got the reference---he just tried a double-bank cheap shot and now the MSM is trying to pull his chestnuts out of the fire [metaphor alert!]

BHussein-O is unaccountable and is now running to media morons like Letterboy to help extricate himself from his silliness. He flipped a bird to Hillary & the MSM gave him a pass on that---maybe he doesn't like strong women? Next he'll be on Keith Odorboy trying to dig out of the quarry pit of stupidity he has managed to dig for himself.

And people who bring up McCain's ancient love life should ask about John Sinclair's allegations---if only to refute them definitively, which noone
has done [just as with Rezko, Ayers, Dohrn mentoring Michelle, Rev. W[rong]'s millions, and a lot of the Chicago Daley Machine earmarks for Michelle's workplace---that her hubby sponsored!!!

Not a word about The Anointed One's adventures before he climbed Mt. Olympus.
Unless he grabs Hillary & ditches Biden, Obama may be in a tailspin that's hard to pull out of.

Patrick J. Kiger said...

McCain seems to be able to attract crowds on the trail only when he's got Palin with him, and his campaign has indicated that they'll be doing a lot of joint appearances. Also, they seem to want to keep Palin close by so they can protect her from questions and potential gaffes. I think that could emerge as a problem/ Obama advantage down the line because that reduces by half the amount of appearances they can make. Obama and Biden, in contrast, can campaign separately in different battleground states, and they have the Clintons, who are extremely popular with the base and with independents, to work other states as surrogates. I don't think that Rudy, Romney and the Huckster can match that on the GOP side, and they don't dare to send Bush or Cheney out there.

gabrielbrown23 said...

So what is everyone so worried about?

Obama has a massive advantage on policy and his record is now fully vetted.

Palin is new, mysterious, and fascinating, but her record is a disaster for the Republicans and her policy positions are ridiculous.

The Republicans are in desperation mode, relying fully on slime to win, and hopefully this election, the Dems have a better solution than the last two elections.

I would hope that over the next couple of months, especially with the debates, the trend is slowly but steadily for Obama.

Honestly, if the Dems can't beat this ridiculous Republican ticket, then I think they may be either too weak or too stupid to govern.

filistro said...

Patrick makes an excellent point. The Palin pick halves McCain's campaigning punch and exposure. It's pretty much just the two of them, and they need to be together because in some kind of weird symbiosis, neither can function without the other.

This is soon going to become ever more evident, and be very damaging to McCain.

And have you noticed? McCain has no surrogates. Really, other than Lindsey Graham (oh, please) who can you think of?

OTOH Obama has a powerful four-pronged attack, with himself, Biden, Bill and Hillary, plus strong lower-level surrogates.

filistro said...

I've just figured out who Pete Kent reminds me of. He's the guy at the baseball game who sits in the third row behind home plate, and for the entire game (regardless of what is happening) he keeps screaming, "Yer a BUM! Is that all ya got? That was a STRIKE! Yer a BUM!"

I've always wondered why the fans sitting around that guy don't just get together and quietly dispose of him. Everybody in the world would consider it justifiable homicide.

p smith said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Hagen said...

Are Fox News polls credible? Weren't they calling states Republican and getting it wrong on the night of election in 2000 and 2004?

DarienCrow said...

So how much per person in Delaware?
How much per person in Rhode Island?

This is, as you well know, misleading.

When you are a mayor of a city, or the governor of a state, it is your JOB to bring federal aid to your city or state.

A building costs just as much money to build no matter how many people live there. A highway costs just as much no matter how many people travel on it.

You showing how much federal aid she was able to bring in just shows she did a great job. Governors and Mayors do not aquire earmarks... Congressmen do. She cannot be held responsible for any federal aid coming in.

Elliot Tarabour said...

I'm sure Axelrod is going to follow Rove's advice to the letter. NOT

Best new name for the GOP ticket - McPain.

e.

wildwestauthority said...

Nate, you and Josh Marshall are, once again way off.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but Governors don't control earmarks. Senators and Congressmen do.

Alaska has a bunch of earmarks because of Alaska's corrupt congressional delegation, which has no shame.

This is the same delegation that has controlled the states politics and that Palin has fought against.

once again, Civics 101: Governors do not control the amount of money given to earmarks. And as a previous poster noted, they have still gone down by half in the mere two years she has been in.

This is a bad issue for Dems as Obama and Biden are big spenders.

I swear, you guys have no clue what works politically.

Steve said...

I'm an Ohioan, a democrat, and a Obama voter, even I don't think Obama has a chance in Ohio. The caging has already started, I got my letter the other day. How many votes will be disallowed this time?
If you need some reference check out these articles.
http://www.truthout.org/article/nearly-600000-voters-subject-possible-caging-ohio
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

aaron said...

If every indicator seems to imply that Palin has more appeal than McCain, then why does it make sense for Obama to continue attacking her? Will the people who moved toward McCain from Obama come back even if me manages to tear her down? I think Obama needs to refocus on McCain and the issues for a bit--he stands to lose far more if he cedes that territory.

markymark said...

Wildwestauthority makes the mistake of making contradictory arguments. (Palin doesn't control earmakrs but they have gone down since she has been Governor?) Actually often state governments, and the Governor in particular have a large say over earmarks. They request money from Congress.

Actually, I am not so sure why earmarks are soooo bad. Earmarks are often made for capital projects, such as bridge building, or dare I say it Bridge Repairing, that otherwise wouldn't be funded.

wildwestauthority said...

markymark:

the earmarks have gone down since Palin became governor because, while she doesn't control the voting of the earmarks, she can control how the money is spent. She has clearly sent the message to Alaska's delegation that she won't go along with their business as usual and that's one reason the earmarks have decline.

Governors can request money all they want. But they don't vote on earmarks. That's for Congress.

Earmarks are bad because they encourage corruption and they tend to be wasteful. Besides, if a bridge needs to be repaired, let the state raise the money. Why should someone from California pay taxes that go to a bridge in Maine?

whispers said...

"If every indicator seems to imply that Palin has more appeal than McCain, then why does it make sense for Obama to continue attacking her?"

Obama has been attacking Palin? That's news to me.

Palin is an untested person and comes in with the natural positives that untested candidates have. If you unilaterally decide to leave such a person unchallenged, then of course she'll continue to enjoy positive ratings.

Some comments show a complete lack of tactical sense. Politics is a competition where the participants have to actually fight to win.

eatbees said...

The right response to "lipstick on a pig" is that Obama wasn't calling Sarah Palin a pig ... McCain's agenda is the pig, and Palin is the lipstick as she said herself!

whispers said...

Guys, the problem is not that Palin was a bad governor for getting big earmarks for Alaska. It's that she's a liar when she says she's opposed to earmarks.

And while Congress decides how much money will be sent to the states, it's up to the state governments to actually spend that money. And Palin took the money that was earmarked for the bridge and spent it on other projects. Because by that time, the bridge had become a huge political embarrassment.

markymark said...

wildwestauthority,

All of that is fine except, the earmarks don't come in as random money- its not the Congress saying our state wants $5 million dollars. Its we have this project that we need money for, please could we have $5million.

Now there are reasons why some states get more earmarks than others. Take Alaska (at the risk of saying something vaguely nice about Palin). Its a physically big state, with a very small population. It could not possibly raise enough tax to fund say a hockey arena. Should Alaskans suffer just because they live in Alaska?

The earmarks system is by no means perfect. It is a system that is open to playing. But neither is it the absolute curse that people like John McCain make it sound as if it is, and in a large, federal nation like the USA probably is necesary.

Oren said...

Uh... much to the point of your post, change/change is what McCain wants this decision to be about vs change/nochange.

For that, as you said, you need to frame the question....

which is EXACTLY WHAT THE FOX POLL JUST DID FOR MCCAIN!

"Which politician will bring the right change to Washington?"

as opposed to:

"Which politician will bring change to Washington?"


The question has already been framed to suggest both candidates are as they say they are, change candidates. So this poll is basically 100% meaningless.

whispers said...

Alaska cannot afford a hockey arena?

As I understand it, Alaska is rolling in cash from the oil companies. Each Alaskan gets a dividend check of over $2000/year.

Why, then, should citizens of Rhode Island or South Carolina or New Mexico pay for a hockey arena in Alaska?

Alaska also takes far more back from the Federal government than it puts in.

It's quite funny - Alaska gets $506.34 per capita in federal earmarks, which puts it #1 in the country. #50? That would be Arizona at $18.70 per capita.

Senator McCain could not have picked anybody more out of line with his anti-pork message than Sarah Palin.

see http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-03-22-earmarks_N.htm

zwrite said...

The below chart seemed relevant due to the debate on this forum.

By the way, in response to some posts on the lipstick analogy, I believe Obama was saying that Bush's policies is the pig and McCain's change claim is the lipstick.

Shalom,
ZWrite


CHART ON STATES THAT ARE GIVERS AND TAKERS


Federal Spending in Each State Per Dollar of Federal Taxes
FY 2005
Source: Tax Foundation, Census Bureau

State Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Rank
New Mexico $2.03 1
Mississippi $2.02 2
Alaska $1.84 3
Louisiana $1.78 4
West Virginia $1.76 5
North Dakota $1.68 6
Alabama $1.66 7
South Dakota $1.53 8
Kentucky $1.51 9
Virginia $1.51 10
Montana $1.47 11
Hawaii $1.44 12
Maine $1.41 13
Arkansas $1.41 14
Oklahoma $1.36 15
South Carolina $1.35 16
Missouri $1.32 17
Maryland $1.30 18
Tennessee $1.27 19
Idaho $1.21 20
Arizona $1.19 21
Kansas $1.12 22
Wyoming $1.11 23
Iowa $1.10 24
Nebraska $1.10 25
Vermont $1.08 26
North Carolina $1.08 27
Pennsylvania $1.07 28
Utah $1.07 29
Indiana $1.05 30
Ohio $1.05 31
Georgia $1.01 32
Rhode Island $1.00 33
Florida $0.97 34
Texas $0.94 35
Oregon $0.93 36
Michigan $0.92 37
Washington $0.88 38
Wisconsin $0.86 39
Massachusetts $0.82 40
Colorado $0.81 41
New York $0.79 42
California $0.78 43
Delaware $0.77 44
Illinois $0.75 45
Minnesota $0.72 46
New Hampshire $0.71 47
Connecticut $0.69 48
Nevada $0.65 49
New Jersey $0.61 50

zwrite said...

FOLLOW-UP TO EARLIER POST

This morning, I posted a blog saying that Obama should FOCUS ON ISSUES. I wanted to thank the people who replied and also wanted to point out that I do NOT want a detailed discussion on trade statistics, as one blogger suggested.

Rather than copypaste a long column on this topic that I wrote in August, I just wanted to copy/paste two things:

1. A tip from Howard Feinman of Newsweek. He listed the tip as fifth or sixth, but I'd put it first, second, and third.

2. A short list from my August column.

Here is Feinman's tip:
FAILING TO STATE A SWEEPING, BUT CONCRETE, POLICY IDEA
It is not enough to be for change –– everybody is, or is trying to be. To make it stick, Obama needed, and needs, to put forth an easy-to-grasp grand proposal, one that would encapsulate what his central message. That tagline? That he is dedicated, body and soul, to advancing the economic interests of hard-working, average Americans. He has the makings of such a proposal –– his tax cuts for low and middle-income families. But he has yet to package that, or anything else, in an easy-to-grasp, hard-number plan for voters. Instead, he’’s got more of a laundry list than an actual rallying cry.


Here is my list:
1. BETTER HEALTH CARE.
2. A FAIRER TAX SYSTEM.
3. GET BIN LADEN.
4. BALANCE THE BUDGET.
5. TOUGHER NATIONAL SECURITY.

This is NOT quantum physics. How difficult is it for Obama to convey a few points and repeat them over and over again until they penetrate the American brain?
(50 percent believe Obama wants to raise taxes because McCain keeps repeating that lie)

It is frustrating as hell to watch this campaign. This is Gore and Kerry all over again.

Shalom,
ZWrite

Glenn-in-Colorado said...

The Big Kahuna, CA, is now inside of NC in Nate's model. Cali will never tip but O's structural advantage is weakening, still intact, but weakening

Glenn-in-Colorado said...

Quinnipiac has FL at M+7 today, if someone were to poll CA, I'd expect it to be O+7 ... ouch. The most likely result is that neither will matter, but we should start seeing far lefthand simulations with a few CA flips out of 10,000 runs and McCain popping a few 400+ EV blowouts. CA will require indies, women and Hispanics to all break McCain. While very unlikely, its no longer an impossibility.

egapre said...

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平平 said...

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