9.12.2008

Road to 270: Minnesota

This afternoon our Road to 270 series continues with the North Star State, Minnesota.

ONCE A DEMOCRATIC GIVEN, Minnesota has tightened up in recent cycles. It’s no longer the same state Mondale won in 1984 against Reagan, his home-state popularity notwithstanding. That said, it’s still an uphill fight for Republicans to take the state, exurban growth aside. John Kerry held off George Bush by 3.5%, and Bush is deeply unpopular in the state. Republicans clearly see the Upper Midwest as the first place to break out of the tight blue-red map of the last few cycles. The St. Paul convention was the equivalent of Democrats planting a flag in Colorado and the Mountain West to expand their base reach.

This year, a highly competitive top-tier Senate race is on tap in the land of 10,000 lakes. Norm Coleman remains a moderate favorite to hang on against comedian-turned-political aspirant Al Franken. In that race, if Franken wins, a lot of credit will go to Obama-generated enthusiasm that drummed up high voter turnout. Considering that Minnesota consistently ranks proudly at the top of the highest voting rate states (almost 77% in 2004!), it’s unclear whether there is room to grow that would provide Franken the coattails he’ll likely need.

Key Demographics



Note: Factors colored in red can generally be thought to help McCain. Factors in blue can generally be thought to help Obama. Factors in purple have ambiguous effects. Except where otherwise apparent, the numbers next to each variable represent the proportion out of each 100 residents in each state who fall into that category. Fundraising numbers reflect dollars raised in the 2008 campaign cycle per eligible voter in each state. Figures for seniors and youth voters are proportions of all residents aged 18+, rather than all residents of any age. The figure for education reflects the average number of years of completed schooling for all adults aged 25+. The figure for same-sex households reflects the number of same-sex partner households as a proportion of all households in the state. The liberal-conservative index is scaled from 0 (conservative) to 100 (liberal), based on a Likert score of voter self-identification in 2004 exit polls. The turnout rates reflect eligible voters only. Unemployment rates are current as of June 2008.

What McCain Has Going For Him

If anything, McCain has the tightening trend in recent cycles going for him as well as a convention that saw the Republican base jolted in the arm by the Palin pick. Looking through our demographic chart, there’s nothing particularly striking about Minnesota aside from voter turnout – it’s within ten spots of the middle in nearly every comparative ranking. The few areas where Minnesota lands on one end or the other tend to favor Obama.

If there is any hidden factor in Minnesota this year, one undercurrent I sensed from attending the St. Paul convention was a potential backlash against the protesters. While many felt outraged about the very heavy-handed police crackdown, the reality is that I talked to a number of local folks, including older Democrats and undecideds, who were angry about the costs to the state incurred by the protests and police effort. It’s all about relatability. The image of a few folks smashing windows and wearing costumes designed to provoke and/or speak out added a few lines of cultural division. That's not to say the protesters shouldn't have protested, just reporting a not-all-that controversial result: dramatic protest provokes strong reactions. This is also not to say that protest backlash equals a McCain victory in Minnesota. But if McCain were to win, I’d venture you’d hear a lot of this type of analysis in the post-mortem.

What Obama Has Going For Him

Minnesota’s high education rates favor the Democratic candidate, as does the relatively high liberal score on the Likert scale (which is just over 50%). There are more DFLers (Dems) than Republicans, and Obama’s fundraising indicates an enthusiasm gap. Minnesota ranks just inside the top third on our Starbucks:Walmart scale, and is relatively high in per capita income, a factor that doesn’t track significantly more clearly with one party or another.

Obama has paid attention to Minnesota, both running up a large Super Tuesday victory here in the caucuses and delivering his nomination-clinching speech on June 3d in St. Paul. The other big thing Obama has going for him is that it’s low on the Tipping Point scale, meaning that the McCain camp surely has better and more efficient pickoff targets over the 2004 map (e.g., Michigan, New Hampshire). That means Obama isn’t likely to need to mount any tough defense, even if some polls show a close single-digit race as opposed to the double-digit polling we’ve often seen this cycle out of the state.

What To Watch For

Minnesota will likely be a single-digit race at the presidential level when all is said and done, but pay close attention to the Coleman-Franken race. Not only is it a brutal fight already, with each candidate wounded by tough criticism and a torrent of attack ads from each side on the air, but also note that if Franken cannot pull off a victory then Democrats have very little chance of getting to the magical, filibuster-proof 60 seats they hope for.

There’s also a tough fight in MN-01, with freshman Democratic Congressman Tim Walz having pulled off one of the bigger upsets in the 2006 wave year. The biggest House tossup is in Minnesota’s 3d district, where Republican Jim Ramstad is retiring. This is the wealthiest of Minnesota’s House districts in the Hennepin County suburbs of Minneapolis, with Ramstad staffer Erik Paulsen (R) in a “no clear favorite” dogfight with 30-year old Iraq War veteran Ashwin Madia (DFL). Since both Walz' district and Ramstad's former district are very narrow +1 R on the Partisan Voter Index scale, the presidential coattails and ground organizing will certainly come into play in these races.

528 comments

OTF said...

qute,

According to her interviews she spewed McCain talking points without depth. The synopsis was:

1)Bush tax cuts are good a typical Repub talking point.

2)Cut earmarks as their big budgetary fix. Hilarious since earmarks is 18billion out of 3trillion national budget...it's

3)Find inefficiencies in government agencies but couldn't name any.

OTF said...

Geoff,

Keep spinning that! She had no clue and she was asked what it meant to her and she had no clue. Sje could have given any of the nuance interpretations that RepubliCons are tryingto cite after the fact and she gave none. She had no clue by her response..she said his world view...with a questioning tone making it clear she had no clue!

Daniel said...

These daily tracking polls are starting to settle at about McCain +2. But so much of that surge for McCain in popular vote is coming from the southern states and the prairie states -- where he already led in the electoral college -- McCain has yet to flip a blue state red. IA is pretty safe for Obama, Obama is running well in CO and if he shores up support in NM he has an electoral college win.

What should be alarming for the McCain campaign is that the MSM is starting to say, "wait a minute, all this shit you are saying about EVERYTHING, it's all lies". It's not just liberal blogs calling McCain a liar anymore. If the MSM runs with this liar tag for too long, it will hurt McCain badly.

Going on 'the View' may turn out to be no big deal but it may also be the 'jump the shark' moment for the McCain campaign if the MSM keeps branding him the liar that he is.

Geoff said...

That was Gibson's intent, OTF.

Please, read about hte Bush Doctrine and its changes over time. Don't simply repeat the attack points you hear from the media and Obama. Think for yourself.

It was clearly an attempt to nail Palin no matter what she said. If she said he's antipreemption, then Gibson would have said well the Bush Doctrine isn't preemption anymore, its pushing democracy.

Silly season in politics.

Want to talk silly, explain how the amazing 21st century internet driven campaign would put out an ad ragging on mccain's computer illiteracy when several articles from liberal newspapers in 2000 explain both that Mccain was then cutting edge on web technology deployment and web industry developments, and further, that mccain had to use staffers and his wife to punch out emails because of his war injuries.

mccain had been using his pow status to get out of issues that have nothing to do with it - like housesgate. Now, Obama sends a fastball down the middle to mccain by putting out an ad that appears to directly mock mccain's war injuries by saying he doesnt know how to send an email.

Truly sad for the 1st day of the new obama economy/out of touch messaging.

Geoff said...

Dan,

The general public thinks at about 50-55 percent that the media is in the tank for obama - that's why the media alleged "confirmation" of mccains lies (really the media is playing its role in the new mccain out of touch//economy obama narrative) will not sway many opinions.

John K. said...

Exactly. Eeveryoone knows the media lies about Republicans, so the media claiming Republicans are "lying" is irrelevent and people will ignore it.

Daniel said...

True, the perception by a majority of people is that the MSM is out to get McCain. But in these close RED states, NV, CO, NM, VA -- being branded a liar needs to only sway 1 or 2% of Independents and/or Hillary backers now with McCain and the election tips to Obama.

Look what happened to Allen in '06 in Virginia after his 'macaca' moment. Allen was up in the polls and then lost a nailbiter to Webb. Sure, all of Allen's GOP support stayed with him - probably conservative democrats as well - but just a few IND's change their mind in a close election....

And the other thing is that McCain's 'honor' and 'integrity' is his strongest suit. He loses that armor and it will not be good for him.

Like I said, all indications are that McCain will likely win the popular vote, but it is very very close in the electoral college and even with McCain +2 right now nationally, Obama still has a narrow electoral college lead (per RCP and Pollster).

Brandon said...

Don't know if this has been posted already, but here is some interesting data on how party ID has changed in some key states.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/the_changing_partisan_landscap.php

FloridaGOP said...

Qute said... Has any Palin supporter heard anything about *her* fiscal policy, or is it more or less the same as Bush's? <<<<<<
I do not know that there is a "Palin" fiscal policy distinct from McCain's. I suppose that we would look to what she has done in Alaska.
1)McCain will lower Taxes compared to Obama especially for small business owners who make over $250k and file Individually because it has some benefits.
2)McCain will slash government. He states he will veto any budget that has earmarks not voted on by the appropriations committee, and he will publish the names of the sponsors and those who voted YES. Obama has also stated he will publish the names,
3) On Healthcare, McCain will go for private investments rather than a big entitlement program. He said he would take the tax deduction for Healthcare premiums away from Companies like IBM, GM, Intel, and five the deduction to their employees. It would force employees to care about costs ans "shop" for best healthcare price,
4) McCain will cut the Corporate Tax rates, supposedly generating more jobs and investments. Obama plans to go after Big Oil excess profits. I think most economists will side with McCain, but we can argue this forever.

There is likely a lot more, but enough to start the discussion

FloridaGOP said...

Geoff,
You are very unlikely to get any agreement, but thanks for a post that includes some facts and insight. It is a lot better on this site when we actually provide some data, some information, along with opinions.

Chun said...

I hate to say this but the old and feeble ad has some legs. Obama should just ignore the POW excuse for not using a computer and keep at it. It's a weak point and the average voter isn't going to know about the POW injury keeping him from a keyboard.

Honorable? No. But honorable was thrown out the day Paris Hilton was made a part of this election.

Qute said...

When a huge MNC like Enron goes under, you place the blame squarely on the top tier for enabling a culture of unbridled greed, fraud and corruption to permeate the corporation and bringing it down. You don't reward the Chairman with a golden parachute and then hire his Deputy to take over. How does it make sense when the country is brought down to its knees in almost every fashion, we vote in a close ideological twin of Bush backed by the same corrupt power-brokers?

Lunacy is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Things were bad enough in 2004 with the Iraqi occupation deteriorating, the looming crisis of the housing bubble, Wall St in a greed orgy, the economy anemic, the Dollar losing its value, prices escalating, did voters expect that by getting Bush in for a second term, it'll change things for the better? That the incompetent partisan corrupt neocon Washington insiders, and the entire Administration, Gonzales, Cheney, Rumsfeld, will suddenly reform themselves under Bush's 2nd term? You don't need a clairvoyant to tell you things *will* worsen, it continues that particular trajectory leading to the meltdown 2008. Do you think the same entrenched powerful interests will suddenly remove themselves from Washington with their man, McCain safely installed in the WH?

takestock said...

qute, I really liked your post from an hour back on the economy. I trade stocks for a living and spend a great deal of time analyzing economic conditions, and I have to say most people just aren't aware how BAD things are right now and how they're going to get MUCH worse over the next several years. Frankly, whoever wins this election will probably not get re-elected because they'll likely receive much of the blame for the downturn that's just beginning to hit. I personally feel more comfortable with Obama in office because from listening to him speak and reading his take on the issues, he appears to understand the structural weaknesses in the economy. Most of his promises to lower taxes and invest in infrastructure will not happen, IMO, but I think we'll do a lot better than from someone following the neocon approach of just sitting back and letting the unregulated free market fix everything.

Anyway, the campaign and this election might seem like fun and games but you folks might want to get serious about the issues and understanding how each candidate's solutions will effect your lives. This isn't 2004. The next president's leadership will have a huge impact on your lives over the next four years.

PeteKent said...

Interesting polling thus far today.

The Marist Poll in NJ shows McCain only 3 pts behind among LVs. With this group McC picked up 5% vs. 1% for Obama as compared with RVs. This is a pattern we have seen in numerous states and is quite magnified in NJ. Notably, McCain has as high a favorability rating in the Garden State as Obama, indicating the potential for upside.

The Ras tracker is showing stability over two days at McC plus 3. This after a spate of even days shows that there has been a big up tick in that poll.

Gallup has been more stable of late with a fairly consistent lead for McC since the Conventions, and other polling (AP, etc.) suggests McC has built a relatively stable lead.

Obama is doing little to overcome any of this. He has announced an intention to run a tougher campaign. The whole post-partisan theme is out the window so he is running counter to brand.

At Columbia he chastised his Alma Mater for failing to permit ROTC recruitment on campus, no doubt infuriating the Daily Kos crowd that remains his base (along with AAs).

He has cancelled his SNL appearance tonight out of respect for Ike or some such. I think this is further evidence of Obama being afraid of his own shadow; no doubt he is concerned about the whole "celebrity meme" taking off on him again.

It appears that it is Obama who is wearing the lipstick these days and McCain and Palin are the ones who have smeared it on him, making him look weak and reactive. The “girlie meme” in evidence again?

For McCain and Palin the vectors remain positive and in place.

Whatever happened on the View is being ignored as result of Ike.

Palin got boffo ratings for ABC on Thursday and Friday and again she acquitted herself well, confounding the low expectations that the Rachel Madow types set for her. She remains a phenom and will continue to build support as she spends more time in the public eye.

McGenius is managing his campaign McBrilliantly. He is controlling the narrative and reducing his opponents to a nullity.

The debates will be crucial. McCain is a very smart man who knows what to say. The only coaching he will need is on demeanor. He must come across as determined but genial and he will win.

Palin will do very well. Her confidence and poise is now established as is her ability to answer even the snarkiest questions and remain on message. The puditry spin is not a factor since the public now thoroughly distrusts the media and believes it is out to get McCain and Palin and help Obama win. She benefits from the public's desire to see her succeed.

As the week progresses we should see continued stability in the trackers with an upward drift for McCain and positively alarming state poll results for Obama fans.

Now that McCain has settled into his lead, the state polling should start to reflect it. He is doing demonstrably better than Obama among independents and white women and this should tell the tale of the election.

The only suspense on election night will revolve around the number of seats the Democrats lose in Congress.

PeteKent said...

Chun:

I had no idea that McCain's injuries have kept him from the internet and email.

Imagine how it will seem when that is flung back into the snide, condescending Obama's face.

In any event McCain is held to a different standard on these things, given who he is. Palin provides that humanizing element in any case. The two of them look great together, dontcha think?

Alex S. said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Geoff said...

Alex, I was definitely cutting and pasting the history of the Bush Doctrine, sorry if that wasn't clear.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/charlie_gibsons_gaffe.html

Despite the talk about plagarism, you did not address the central point of my post - that Gibson got it wrong, and the media doesnt know the difference between Bush 2001 and Bush 2008, and somehow that means Palin is stupid? Why?

PeteKent said...

Daniel and others:

Obama calling McCain a liar is not making it so. You are indulging in wishful thinking. Obama has very little credibility and seems increasingly desparate as is now running counter to everything he stood for.

The liar thing resonates only with the Keith Olbermann crowd. And, as you know, nobody watches him.

If that is the best you got, bring it on!

FloridaGOP said...

@Chun said...
I hate to say this but the old and feeble ad has some legs. Obama should just ignore the POW excuse for not using a computer and keep at it.

Isn't this a great country. We are on different sides and we both like this ad and agree that Obama should pitch it as hard as possible,
There are already articles by Slate, and NRO, and LA Times on the disabilities, war wounds angle. I have taken the article and sent it to my independent and moderate friends. It will be repeated all over FOX tomorrow.

We will get a chance to see if it has legs and how it plays.

Geoff said...

PEte,

On the geeky poll analysis side, i think you're wrong in several respects. McCain's bounce has been slowly diffusing - but not nearly as fast or as much as widely predicted. However, McCain's numbers are showing serious softness which will lead to a point lead or tie by mid next week unless McCain reseizes the initiative. The polling evidence is out there:

1. Hotline switched from Cainer plus one to Obaminator plus 2 - that means thursday's numbers were great for obama comparatively.
2. Gallup fell another point- and my math breakdown says a reduction to two points is inevitable unless mccain seriously surged yesterday - could even fall to even or cainer plus 1
3. Ras showed a big cainer day on thurs, evening off friday however as the lead stayed at 3. Expect Ras to decline as the big day thurs will be gone by monday tracker.
4. Newsweek shows a tie for the 10th and 11th - probably about right on gallup and ras or just off

The POW gaffe by Obama re ability to type will cost Obama only if Cainer seizes the initiative and he may, but Hurricane Politics make that very difficult this moment.

Chun said...

Pete,

You know how the game is played. Obama will do what McCain did when he was asked about the harshness of his ads. Just say that they are all true and that he stands by them. Will Obama get some flak for it? Sure, but mostly from the right and they weren't going to vote for him anyways.

As for the two of them together, I get the feeling that McCain looks like a corpse next to Palin. She's got a lot of spunk and vibrancy while McCain looks like her grandfather. So playing the old angle will help when you see the two of them together.

Not the election I would have wanted to see but I guess we get the election we deserve. Sad huh?

OTF said...

Geoff,

Get over yourself. Watch the interview and se her response. She ahd no clue what the hell it meant and was given an opportunity to say what it meant to her. She came up with zero of the many interpretations. She is clueless. Keep spinning!

Geoff said...

OTF, you went into watching the interview wanting to see Palin as "clueless" and therefore your brain interpreted those images to confirm that belief, and now, with facts in front of you about the Bush Doctrine and the silliness of the question, you turn off and claim "get over yourself".

SAd.

Geoff said...

Palin outlined the traditional conservative doctrine of striking militarily only if there is an immiment threat - a clear departure from the preemptive doctrine of yesteryear Bush.

Did you watch the interview?

OTF said...

People will not ignore McCain lies as the trolls propose. The yare blatant and egregious.

McCain said yesterday that Palin took no earmarks as Governor. That is a blatant lie and everyone knows it.

Chun said...

Floridagop,

McCain's handicap can be pasted on FoxNews day in and day out and it won't reach the average voter. Just the conservatives.

I also wonder if McCain will want to stress that handicap thing too much. He wants to appear like he's strong enough to live for the next 8 years remember?

filistro said...

If their lips are moving, they're lying:

Sarah Palin's visit to Iraq in 2007 consisted of a brief stop at a border crossing between Iraq and Kuwait, the vice presidential candidate's campaign said yesterday, in the second official revision of her only trip outside North America.

Following her selection last month as John McCain's running mate, aides said Palin had traveled to Ireland, Germany, Kuwait, and Iraq to meet with members of the Alaska National Guard. During that trip she was said to have visited a "military outpost" inside Iraq. The campaign has since repeated that Palin's foreign travel included an excursion into the Iraq battle zone.

But in response to queries about the details of her trip, campaign aides and National Guard officials in Alaska said by telephone yesterday that she did not venture beyond the Kuwait-Iraq border when she visited Khabari Alawazem Crossing, also known as "K-Crossing," on July 25, 2007.


Also, the "Ireland and Germany" stops were for refueling. She never left the plane.

Why are they doing this? There's no need to keep lying on this scale when the truth would serve just as well. It's like they've decided lying is more fun, so why not do it?

Breathtakingly stupid. Really.

GregM said...

Speaking of polls, I just noticed that the Hotline tracking poll is out today...I thought they weren't going to release on weekends?

OTF said...

Geoff,

Keep spinning! I have taught medical students and I know when they have no freaking clue when are asked a question. They are much more intelligent than Caribou Barbie in trying to cover it and give a repsonse that might sound intelligent while having no idea about the real answer.

Qute said...

" I think most economists will side with McCain, but we can argue this forever."

I'd like to see some big names backing McCain's claims with their reputation because frankly, this is a staggeringly ridiculous list.

Nowhere in your list of McCain's to do did he acknowledge the trillions of dollars in natiobnal debt, the collapse of Wall St and where the billions or trillions of bail-out money is coming from.

Slash a billion here from infrastructure, slash a billion there from welfare, but what's he going to do about the *daily billions* going down the Iraqi blackhole? He'd better have a budget, he thinks we're there for the long, long haul. He's not drawing down, he's doubling down, and maybe even wars with Iran and Russia as hinted darkly and strongly.

He throws a few peanuts at his base while ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room, the unsustainable debt, the collapse of the financial structure, the nose-diving Dollar.

Let me tell you my friend, there's gonna be more wars, more debt, more spending, more inflation, more bankruptcies, no healthcare. More of the same from the Cut Taxes Hike Spending Like No Tommorrow crew.

It's as if the family owes a million dollars in mortgages and bills when the banks and debt collector come a-knocking, the Dad is talking about cutting out soda in the family budget. Not to mention he's throwing a few grands at the Iraqi casino every other day in an attempt to beat the house. He's none too concern because, well, the debt will be left to the kids someday.

What's needed is a real plan, not a wish list like you've posted. A plan substantiated with stats and figures and projections about solving the insolvency, about reducing the debt, about cutting the biggest spending, about outstanding Entitlement, about fulfilling Social Security obligations. A plan with a time-frame, with a proposal for a balanced budget at the end. And I want to know what the GAO thinks about this non-existent McCain plan, because from what I've seen of the GAO's report, we're over $50 trillion in red.

PeteKent said...

Actually Chun, Fox News reaches a lot of moderate voters. Thats why Obama appeared with BillO, but Mccain will never need to sit down with Olbermann.

Geoff said...

Even your precious Washington post agrees, even if they cant help but sound condescending:
Intentionally or not, the Republican vice presidential nominee was on to something. After a brief exchange, Gibson explained that he was referring to the idea -- enshrined in a September 2002 White House strategy document -- that the United States may act militarily to counter a perceived threat emerging in another country. But that is just one version of a purported Bush doctrine advanced over the past eight years.

Peter D. Feaver, who worked on the Bush national security strategy as a staff member on the National Security Council, said he has counted as many as seven distinct Bush doctrines. They include the president's second-term "freedom agenda"; the notion that states that harbor terrorists should be treated no differently than terrorists themselves; the willingness to use a "coalition of the willing" if the United Nations does not address threats; and the one Gibson was talking about -- the doctrine of preemptive war.


"If you were given a quiz, you might guess that one, because it's one that many people associate with the Bush doctrine," said Feaver, now a Duke University professor. "But in fact it's not the only one."

PeteKent said...

OTF: Palins denial of taking earmarks got millions of viewes and the highest ratings for ABC News in years. No one is listening to the "Amen Corner" calling her a liar.

The media has little credibility.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Brandon - Thanks for posting the article. Fascinating stuff.

The Democratic registration advantage in Florida is such a tease. Even after Obama comes back in the next three weeks, the odds of him winning FL are still 3-1. Yet, how can a campaign not put in major resources for 4 million people? It also gives pause to the article linked yesterday about the "massive" registration going on in Orlando.

Those numbers ought to put the "PA in play" thoughts to rest.

Again, thanks.

Geoff said...

GregM- what are the numbers? Last release i see is 09/09-11 at obama plus 2

Geoff said...

er plus one

PeteKent said...

Chun,

I get the impression that more and more the voters have tuned out Obama. He is a voice crying out in the wilderness. And like John the Baptist will be handed his head on election day!

filistro said...

Geoff, please.

You sound like all those Clinton supporters who kept trying so earnestly to explain why she might really have thought she was under sniper fire in Bosnia.

Everybody's formed a firm opinion about Palin and the Bush Doctrine, and nobody's going to change now.

The damage is done. It's over. Move on.

OTF said...

Pete Kent,

Yes, I know you bank on those as stupid as yourself to disavow a clear fact. McCain lied willingly saying she took no earmarks! That is a lie and he knows it. Ofcourse supporting blindly lying scum is why you are a RepubliCon. It makes you feel at home along with being proud of your ignorance!

Trevor said...

PeteKent--

I suppose your statement could be considered accurate because "a lot" is not assigned a certain percentage.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/news_you_watch_says_a_lot_about_how_you_ll_vote

I'll admit a certain percent of that 87% could be considered "moderate" (along with a certain percent of every other category,) and there are some undecideds on every station (4% on Fox, 9% on CNN, 7% on MSNBC.)

But an overwhelming majority have already decided on McCain, just as much less overwhelming majorities decided on Obama for the other two stations.

Geoff said...

Filly, those two instances could not be further apart. I know its chic to rag Palin for anything possible, but facts and logic must be applied to emotional attacks, shouldnt they?

I guess it makes no difference either way at this point in reality, the demagoguing of the issue by the left media has been done.

Chun said...

I'm sure Fox get's it's share of moderate and liberal voters. Heck I turn in just to see what the other side is doing. I'm not talking about Fox's demographics in regards to percentage of moderates, I'm talking about the fact that the average voter won't any cable news channel.

Most people just don't bother with the news. They come home from a full days work and they watch TV for entertainment. Maybe they will catch a few notes here and there but that's about it.

GregM said...

Geoff,
At diageohotlinepoll.com, Sept 10 to 12 is McCain-Obama: 45-44.

Geoff said...

another flip ...that poll is easy to tip it appears...thats cainer plus two, obama plus one, cainer plus one over the last three days.

Relyzinger said...

PeteKent said...

Daniel and others:

Obama calling McCain a liar is not making it so.


True, but him saying things that are absolutely contradicting the reality does. You know in your heart of hearts that McCain took the low road and turned this campaign into something repugnant but you want to win this election and you do not care if they will be able to govern at all. Let me tell you something; this is not football. This is about our country's future, our children's future and if the last 8 years is an indicator, you won't benefit from that, I didn't, I'm not better off, but the oil companies did, the corporations did.

Geoff said...

Okay folks, taking bets on the Gallup number?

I'm going mccain plus 2

Alex S. said...

Geoff,

I deleted my post because it wasn´t 100% right. Charles Krauthammer did not plagiarize anything, so sorry about that, but the article he refers to is deleted from the web, because 9/11 changed everything. It was 9/11 that created the Bush doctrine - the first meaning you mentioned was only created by Charles Krauthammer! Read the link I gave before:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/still_more_confusion_about_the.html

"Karen Hughes: On Tuesday of last week, Tuesday, October 2nd, after his National Security Council meeting, he called me to the Oval Office and told me that he was preparing to launch a military operation and asked me to start thinking about an address to the nation. He was very aware that he would need to define the goals of the operation to the nation. ...And I have a quote here. He [President Bush] said, "The Bush administration will enforce its doctrine." And that's what he told me as part of explaining that the military operation would be part of a long and broad effort on a lot of fronts and that its goal would be to help disrupt the terrorist network in Afghanistan and clear the ground there for sustained operations."

Referring to Sept, 20th, 2001:

"We will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime." - George W. Bush

And remember the reason to go to war with Iraq, it´s hard to remember it because we have heard them change over time, but the one reason given BEFORE the war, was that Iraq was harboring terrorists, that Saddam Hussein was indirectly responsible for 9/11. Even today, there are still people that believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 because that´s what the government said!


So, Charles Krauthammer said the Bush doctrine was undefined anyway, because Charles Krauthammer HIMSELF got it wrong.
And the only reason we don´t know what the Bush doctrine is today, is that the government has constantly changed the reasons why they went to war with Iraq AFTER they didn´t find a connection between Al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein.

Charlie Gibson could have been more precise, but to say that we don´t know what the Bush doctrine actually is, although we went to Iraq as a consequence of it, is the real issue here. Palin didn´t know anything about it. She didn´t know that the Bush government attaches nice slogans to their deceitful policies - that´s not to her disadvantage, but it reinforces the impression that she is just a fig leaf, a lipstick for the Republican Party.

Geoff said...

Strange Greg, that's not up on my computer for diaego - just shows the friday number of o45/m44

The Real Mike Is Back said...

I will say McCain +3.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

The Diageo/Hotline is on pollster.com

PeteKent said...

Geoff,

Re poll anaysis, I must respectfully disagree.

I do not see any real diffusing of McCain's bounce. He seems to be maintaining a fairly consistent lead of 3 to 4%. It has come off a bit, but he haa a structural lead on which to build.

I do not see the "serious softness" in McCain's numbers that you do at all.

The polling evidence is contrary to your view.

Your anaysis of the Ras tacker is all wrong. McCain had a huge day on Thursday that moved him from Even to Plus 3. That this was maintaned on Friday shows that he has continued to signficantly outpoll Obama or the lead would declined with any decline from Thursday's numbers. That he maintained the lead shows that he did as well on Friday as he did on Thursday and Weds. That's pretty damn good and if he can maintain that -- and I see no reason to see him fall in the short run-- he will have built himself a nice lead.

It is Obama who needs to take the initiative, but not with shrill attacks that do not suit the kind of post-parisan candidate he claims to be.

Chun said...

Pete,

I was a Patriots fan last year and I thought they were a lock for the Superbowl. I even bet my friend a pie over the game and I'm now down one pie.

I'm also a Lakers fan and I cheered like hell as the Lakers got into the finals this year but once again I was disappointed.

The one thing I learned about cheering for your horse this year is that being confident in your team is one thing, but being over confident sets you up for major disappointment. Now I am not going to counter by telling you how Obama will take over the election and body slam his competition on election day. I'm just giving you fair warning that crow tastes really bad.

Geoff said...

Alex, good points, but I still think that it was a gotcha moment and it didnt matter what palin said, she's be claimed to be uninformed - either of the recent changes in the doctrine or not being aware of its earlier incarnations. That's why its an overblown controversy.

Check the washington post, notorious obama wingmen:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091203324.html?hpid=topnews

Geoff said...

Pete, the new Hotline number does alter my analysis somewhat - but if my poll cracker is right, gallup and ras are both trending obama.

FloridaGOP said...

@Qute,
I thought you were requesting some specific policies that McCain was proposing on the economy that are different than Bush. Was that incorrect? Were you just trolling for an opportunity to rant about your view?
If you still want to discuss individual programs related to the economy, how about Healthcare? I know a little about McCain's view and also the plan implemented in Mass. Do you know how Obama plans to PAY for healthcare for 47million Americans?

Geoff said...

Chun, good points, the momentum will shift another 3-4 times at least.

PeteKent said...

Relyzinger:

It was your candidate's overconfidence and refusal to do the townhalls that has caused this problem.

McCain went so far as to say the two of them should travel the country together. Imagine how the tone might have chnaged if Obama has really accepted instead of pretending to like it.

Like public financing of his campaign.

It is too bad that Obama will raise so little money in September. Especially after the bad August he had.

The HRC folks and the Daily Kos crowd have closed their checkbooks and are moving on . . . .

Geoff said...

Greg - not on pollster.com that i can find, i guess i'm a computer illiterate :)

keepsake said...

When people get bored with Palin saying the same old crap over and over, watch cainer's poll numbers drop. should be a tie going into the debates.

keepsake said...

at least.

Vanessa said...

petekent what makes you feel that he had such poor fundraising in August?

The Real Mike Is Back said...

I found this story from the prince of the losers a hoot. You can buy some nice Swedish Fish with this kind of advice.

A Patriots anda Lakers fan? Oy vey gevalt...

PeteKent said...

Geoff--How in the world do you see the ras tracker trending toward Obama? McC has maintained a3 poit lead now over three days. if there had been any drop off on Friday, the lead would have declined.

Vanessa said...

although petekent I've been warned not to address or take you serious. I have been told that your sole purpose on this blog is to get someone to respond to something you say.

Trevor said...

New poll, M+17 54-37 in SD.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/south_dakota/election_2008_south_dakota_presidential_election2

No real surprises; there was the offchance the state would get a bit closer like other plains states (although Obama did poorly in the primary compared to the others,) but it was lopsided enough to begin with, and slightly redder than MT and ND.

Conversely, there will also be a Dem landslide in SD as Tim Johnson never drew a serious challenger; the real race will be in '10 when Thune, narrow victor over Daschle in the heavily Republican '04 year, might face someone like Herseth-Sandlin.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Vanessa - Don't worry about ol' Pete. He believes Obama will euphemistically get his head cut off on Election Day. Then he tries to dispense advice to the Obama campaign, all the while assuring us that he has no more money to execute said advice.

Qute said...

takestock, Thank you for your support and you probably have a good insight into the viewpoint of the staunchly Republican business community. I don't want to go down the "nasty attack ads" route - it obfuscate all of our most urgent concerns and I hope that our Republican fellow posters appreciate that this is also about Democrats being completely clear-eyed when the lever is pulled.

I dug deep into the origins of this economic meltdown, this has convinced me more than anything else that the current power brokers have got to go. They put up a good dog-n-pony show about cutting our taxes and then cynically rob us in broad daylight. I hope all McCain voters do the same, they owe that to themselves.

Attacking McCain/Palin/Obama won't make the other side vote for my side. Ultimately, we all will vote our interests. That is reality. I'm trying to further the dialogue on common ground, so I don't find for/against "noise" Palin particularly helpful. She's a bit player after all, a sideshow, not the main event. The main event is the state of the country.

It's not about getting Republicans or Independents to like Obama, it's about whom they would trust to clean up this mess, the Dems or the current GOP in its Cheney, Bush, Gonzales, McCain, incarnation. Don't forget the Government works for US, don't ever forget that.

And it's not just one person, it's an entire Party modus operandi. Clinton, Bush, which team ran America better? Were you better off in 2000 or 2008? They don't have to ever like any of us Dems, hell, I'd vote the Dems out myself if they ever turn soft, rotten, incompetent, just vote one's conscience, vote for the right choice for the sake of country. Country above politics.

Geoff said...

Look at the last three days, and do the math. McCain's plus three is being held up by thursday's numbers, and those will be gone on monday.
9/10/2008 46 48.6
9/11/2008 44.6 50
9/12/2008 47.4 48.4

PeteKent said...

Excellent article by Michael Barone on Real Clear Politics.

Barone is perhaps the smartest observer of elections in this country today.

He has forgotten more than Chuck Todd or John King will ever learn.

OTF said...

Pete Kent,

So the brilliant logic, which morons like you accept is that if they would have done joint appearanes Mccain wouldn't lie and have no honor in purposely distorting Obama's record. Right!
That idiocy is why you are a Republicon and lap up any bullshit they feed you.

McCain sold what little of his soul was left when hired Schmidt and brought in the rest of the Rove proteges. He had little soul left, since he changed his positons on the bush tax cuts(which called irresponsible at a time of war and gave so much to so few, who already were so well off); his abandoning his own immigartion bill to appease the rightwing "claiming I get it", embracing the previous people he called "agents of intolerance" to appease the bible thumpers, and abandoning his anti-torture stance by voting against a bill that would enforce the army field manual which explicitly bands torture.

Vanessa said...

geoff how are you able to figure out the exact spread on each of the polling days

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Dammit! I lose! Gallup track:

M-47
O-45

Vanessa said...

gallup M47 O45

FloridaGOP said...

I saw someone's analysis recently that in the average of these national polls, Obama at his best hit 51%, and that represents his potential. McCain is at 49% now and so that represents his potential.
There is no guarantee that a lead in National polls will result in an electoral win.
The polls are unlikely to change significantly before the 1st debate, Sept 26th.

That all seems to make sense. I do not see anything to generate enthusiasm or panic on either side.

Geoff said...

Looks like i was right - McCain plus 2.

Vanessa said...

what were you predicting real mike?

PeteKent said...

Geoff:

You do the math.

If Friday had shown a trend toward Obama, then the overall result would have fallen. That McCain maintained his lead means that on Friday his net OVER Obama was somewhere bw his result on Weds and the excellent result on Thurs; Fri was at least as good as the prior two day average. Given the bump on Thurs that must have been pretty damn good.

Geoff said...

A statistical computer program that figures out the prior days using the three day averages over time. the problem is that gallup rounds their number so its an inexact science.

filistro said...

vanessa, Pete is a guy who is in touch with his Feelings. He believes that everything he Feels is important, not only to him but to others as well. Every time a Feeling rumbles to the surface of Pete's consciousness, he crafts that Feeling reverently into words and shares it with the world (not just on this blog, but, verbatim, on many others as well.)

If you're into Feelings, Pete is definitely your guy.

But... if you like facts... well, then, not so much.

topshelf1205 said...

Not sure if it's been posted but Obama up 3 in New Jersey in latest poll:

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/nj_obama_48_mccain_45_marist95.php

Chun said...

What can I say? I am a SoCal boy and I love my Lakers and I hated the Raiders so much for leaving LA that I cheered for the Patriots to clobber them in the playoffs and then they went on to win 3 more rings.

Not a good time to be a Pats fan these day though. Poor Brady, at least he has his supermodel girlfriend and three rings to comfort him as he nurses his knee.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

I predicted McCain +3. :-)

It now looks like Senator McCain is sliding off of his high of 49. In four days, the spread has gone from +6 to +2.

@ Florida - That's well said. I do believe Gallup's high for Senator Obama was 50. In this business, as I have just pointed out, you can't be off by just one point!

Daniel said...

Yes, Gallup -- McCain +2. As Sarah Palin filters out of the conversation (Hurrican Sarah, right, just like Gustav - come and go) the race reverts back to McCain and Obama.

Obama's been having a couple of good polling days in a row -- could be because he decided to finally go on offense, who knows?

I still think McCain looked horrible on 'the View' and it's getting a lot of play on YouTube.

Popular vote vs. Electoral vote -- what will the trolls do if McCain wins the popular vote by over a million votes and loses in the Electoral College.

Perhaps James Baker comes out of retirement to help count chads in New Mexico.

Relyzinger said...

PeteKent said...

Relyzinger:

It
McCain went so far as to say the two of them should travel the country together. Imagine how the tone might have chnaged if Obama has really accepted instead of pretending to like it.

Like public financing of his campaign.

It is too bad that Obama will raise so little money in September. Especially after the bad August he had.

The HRC folks and the Daily Kos crowd have closed their checkbooks and are moving on . . . .


I notice you still are not saying anything "positive" about "your" candidate and only attacking Obama. Is that McCain's plan to govern the country? Is that his policy position? Attacking the opponent?

I repeat, in your heart of hearts you KNOW that he has no plans, you know he has no policy difference than George W. Bush (and please don't give me the earmark crap, I've had enough of it; he picked a VP who asked for an earmark for a research about the mating habits of crabs, holy crap) and he will govern the country exactly like the last 8 years: he will let lobbyists and corporations run the country.

And don't get your hopes up about Obama's finances going bust. Guess what? I voted for McCain at the primaries and I just topped off my contribution for Obama after it was obvious that McCain did not vet this woman. Because unlike you, I think I deserve better. I cannot take 4 more years of oil companies running my nations energy policy, 4 more years of corporate banks running my countries economy... I deserve better. Do you?

Geoff said...

I did the math pete - see above. The numbers are the numbers...

Chun said...

I'm wondering if all this hurricane coverage is bad for Bush and therefore McCain.

Anyone have Bush's numbers during Gustav?

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Chun - That's the soundest defense of your position that I've seen on 538 in a while. Well done. :-)

I know Tom is the Golden Boy, but the O-Line is still one of the best in the business. And knowing Belichick, he trusts and knows his entire team so much that they can rewrite the playbook in three days and everyone will learn in in three more.

Daniel said...

McCain plus +17 in SD, up +30ish in ID, WY, AL, OK -- these add up to huge popular votes -- that are completely wasted.

So we have McCain stretching the RED states so far they can't get any REDDER yet no BLUE states have flipped to RED. To be +2 with huge gains in RED states and narrowing margins in BLUE states can only mean 2008 may very well be the Bizzaro repeat of 2000.

Like I said, James Baker counting chads in New Mexico only this time his guy is down 537 votes and not up.

Qute said...

floridagop,

I think it's not quite fair to describe my posts as 'trolling", that word is overused. We're all more intelligent and civilized than that here. I cannot take such McCain's ideas seriously because none of it address in any meaningful way the biggest problem we all face today, the $50 trillion debt. Cutting taxes is a no-brainer, that increases our debt, keeps us on the same Bush trajectory. Cutting spending is a little more interesting but vague promises with no specific figures don't mean much, and complete denial of some of our biggest expenditure, eg, Iraq, the Wall St bail-out, the looming Social Security crises, etc....I mean his advisor called us "a nation of whiners" until he was fired just before the Convention, this goes to show how deeply he must have delved into our problems!

Read up on David Walker's crusade, I Googled this:

http://jeremiasx.wordpress.com/2008/01/12/gao-comptroller-david-walker-warns-of-financial-crisis/

In the family analogy, the Dad promised to cut off spending on soda and even candy bars but couldn't give an answer about the million dollars owed even as the debt-collectors came a-calling. But the kids should be happy because they got more pocket money!

Geoff said...

AGreed Mike.
Here's the Gallup dailies for the past three days:
9/10/2008 46.2 49
9/11/2008 46 47.3
9/12/2008 42.8 44.7
I see a trend here of McCain down by 4.3 over three days, and Obama down 3.4 over three days.

Seems like both are shedding supporters, but McCain at slightly quicker speed.

Hence, the decline from mccain plus 4, to 3, to 2.

Vanessa said...

People assume that McCain's convention bounce should be just as short as Obama's but I believe that the Sarah Palin announcement and the GOP convention basically put a stop to that.

Obama was surging in state polls after his conventions. We'll have to see how things look going in to the debates.

I am getting the feeling though, that Sarah Palin, although she'll cause Euphoria among evangelicals, really completes the McCain campaign as a house of cards. Gibson was tough on her but that was hardly the treatment she could expect from a press conference where the questions are varied, cutting and implicative. The questions at a press conference are ALL phrased like that War with Russia question where a simple non-answer can turn in to a wreck. My guess is that she doesn't do a press conference but eventually I think the growing narrative in the media will drive up her negatives.

Daniel said...

The Patriots will be just fine. Cassell throws 25-28 TD's this year, their Defense is very good, Maroney runs for 1,200 YDS and 12 TD's, and the Pats finish no worse than 10-6. Buffalo may take that division but I think the Pats make the playoffs either way.

Darío said...

Gallup

McCain +2.

Vanessa said...

Additionally, you can't just recall statistics like "6.1% unemployment" in a debate and expect credibility. In fact I think it makes her look un-knowing but well studied.

Vanessa said...

are you guys expecting any state polls there?

Geoff said...

not that i know of...just the new montana ras poll...m big lead

Trevor said...

Daniel--Only thing is most of those states are so sparsely populated that the swing might not affect them.

The likelihood that Obama will make the deep south purpler without winning it, due to AA turnout, makes a repeat of 2000 without the mirror image reasonably likely, too. Remember, Georgia is 5 times larger than Alaska and the Dakotas combined.

The Real Mike Is Back said...

@ Vanessa - That's all well and good, but it's going to take something from Obama to blow the house down.

In 1980, with a week to go and in the last debate, Ronald Reagan asked the country, quite simply, if people were better off now than they were four years ago? He's got to do or say something that connects and seals the deal. Nobody knows what this is yet, but that's what's got to happen.

Chun said...

Mike,

We'll see how they do this Sunday. Favre will be a good test for them.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of Maroney this week and from now on. Might be a good pick up for fantasy football guys.

Daniel said...

Obama may be building some momentum -- small at first, but most believe he won the week. In addition, McCain ain't gonna campaign this weekend so Obama gets to set the narrative starting next week.

This should be interesting. McCain has thrown everything (mostly over the top lies) at Obama yet Obama is right there and he's trading punches with McCain now.

I honestly feared last Friday that with 9/11 coming up and Sarah Palin dominating the news and Obama looking lost that by today (9/13), McCain would be up around +6. So, all in all, we're in round 13, Obama survived a very rocky round 12...but round 13-15 are the championship rounds.

This is shaping up like Leonard-Hearns I. Hearns (aka McCain) led on the scorecards going into the 13th round but he ran out of gas and got stopped by Leonard (Obama) in the 14th.

Geoff said...

Daily Ko's // Research 2000 shows a move back to mccain, like hotline, from obama plus one to tie, with yesterday's daily number mccain plus 1
Today's Daily Kos Tracking Poll: Obama 47% McCain 47% Barr 2% Nader 2%

bryen193 said...

"petekent what makes you feel that he had such poor fundraising in August?"

About to announce breaking the record for largest single month of fundraising in the history of presidential campaign fundraising means "poor fundraising" to ol' pete.

In other news Bloomberg has an article up about McCain campaign making up crowd size estimates for Palin/McCain ticket rallies, then attributing said estimates to local fire marshalls and local officials who claim not to know what they're talking about. Either way, McCain has put himself in a situation where he can't hold campaign rallies by himself without Palin.

Darío said...

Why RCP din´t put the Research2000 tracking?

Daniel said...

Trevor,
Correct, a lot of those states are sparsely populated (the Upper East Side of Manhattan has more people than Wyoming) but taken as a whole (including TX), with such enormous REDNESS it actually trumps Obama's collective BLUE advantage in CA, NY, and IL.

So many blue states are closer MI, PA, WI, NJ, MN, OR but are not likely to switch from BLUE to RED so that a McCain +2 nationally is actually not at all a bad number for Obama with respect to winning the Electoral College.

Vanessa said...

haha dario my boy, because the last thing RCP wants to do is create any link (however small) with the daily kos lest The resident curmudgeon chuck krauthamer shit his diapers....

Chun said...

Daniel,
You talk as if getting into the playoffs is the seasonal goal for a Belichick led team. I assure you, it is not.

Qute said...

otf,

Just spotted your Palin "fiscal policy" post...her answers scare the daylight out of me too. At least most of the Republicans here acknowledge she's out of her depth in this respect, or so I hope.

Vanessa said...

bryen did you read that off of talking points memo?
Just wanted to see if we both saw the same article from different links.

OTF said...

I find the mindless pontification on national polls hilarious, if it weren't so utterly futile and stupid. We have an elEctoral college system. State polls matter. As illustrated by me atleast t times if you change 50,000 votes in the right states in 2000 out of 100million..thats's 0.05% folks. Bush or Gore could have had 310+ EC votes, which is an easy EC win.

IT MATTERS WHERE YOUR SUPPORT IS CONCENTRATED. THERE ARE NO BONUS PTS FOR WINNING BY 20PTS COMPARED TO 1 PT IN A STATE...IT'S THE SAME # OF EC VOTES! PONTIFICATION ON EVERY TICK IN NATIONAL POLLS IS SILLY!

The Real Mike Is Back said...

Actually, Daniel, the better analogy is that Texas offsets New England. If New England were one state, it would be a Democratic stronghold of 34 EVs.

Similarly, the Pacific West offsets Dixie.

Zack said...

Pete,

The fact that McCain held the Thurs Ras numbers after Friday was added doesn't mean that Friday matched Thursday. It means that Friday matched Tuesday (the day that fell out). If Friday matched Thursday, McCain's numbers would have gone up (since the 3-day tracker would have consisted of 2 really good days instead of one).

There's a whole lot of imprecision in the individual day cracks, but it's pretty clear that Thursday was a great day for McCain (since it moved him from even to plus 3). It's also pretty obvious that Friday was closer to even, since the new info didn't increase the number at all.

Bede the Youthful said...

Gallup Daily tightens again:

M: 47
O: 45


"These results, based on interviewing conducted Wednesday through Friday, indicate that the presidential contest is -- for now, at any rate -- settling back into the close race that it was before the two weeks that marked both candidates' selections of their vice presidential running mates and the two conventions. In the weekend before the Democratic convention, the race was tied 45% to 45%. Now, as the "convention dust" is settling, the race is at 47% McCain, 45% Obama, only slightly different.

During the time period of the conventions, of course, the race underwent predictable "bounces" -- first for Obama, who at one point had moved out to an eight percentange point lead, and then for McCain, who moved out to a five-point lead. Now, it appears that the structure of the race -- after all the sturm und drang of the convention period -- ends up not all that different than when the conventions began.

Recent days have seen intense media focus on Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's widely publicized television interviews with Charles Gibson of ABC News, hard-hitting television ads, and the usual campaign back and forth. The next major planned event involving both candidates will be the first presidential debate on Sept. 26. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.) -- Frank Newport"

bryen193 said...

"bryen did you read that off of talking points memo?
Just wanted to see if we both saw the same article from different links."

Can't remember, but I read it this morning. I remember the article saying Obama people being "tight-lipped" about the number that's going to be released on the 20th, but it will be historic. About every month, they seem to float a fundraising scare leak designed to get people to pony up even more.

Daniel said...

OTF, exactly! Winning a state by 1 vote or 5 Million nets you the same electoral college votes so McCain is hemhorraging popular votes right now in all these really really red states.

Chun, my wife's family lives in Hartford, CT (45 minute drive to Foxboro) so I can assure you that you are correct in saying that just getting to the playoffs is not enough for the Pats. However, you still need to make the playoffs to eventually win the Super Bowl.

bryen193 said...

Oh here it is:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&refer=politics&sid=auPofEVcBXrs

OTF said...

qute,

Making a logical argument to Republicons is futile b/c they can not be swayed by fact, logic, or reason. They don't utilize higher brain function in determing their votes, they utilize the primative structure of the amygdala based on emotions and in many cases negative emotions of fear, resentment, etc. Republicons have a rigid construct and are incapable of change and mold their views to retain that rigid contruct even in the face of unequivocal facts to the contrary of their construct. This is a thinking or lack thereof that is inherent in some mental diseases and psychoses.

Daniel said...

One last thing before I hit the gym. Sooner or later RealClearPolitics is going to have to drop that ridiculous USAToday McCain +10 poll from Sept 7th.

Now really, had that poll been Obama +10 does anybody here really think RCP would have kept it in their polling avg. for so long?

The +10 comes out and we will see this race is around McCain +1.7 nationally.

Josh said...

Gallup looks to be moving closer. McCain's lead is now down to 2. Statistically tied. Considering everything I think Obama should feel pretty good about this position. The facts are totally on his side. McCain/Palin's ads/speeches/interviews are full of LIES and that's becoming more and more obvious. Those lies will put off independent voters. Only right wing lunatics will stick with them. They'd vote for McCain/Palin no matter what though, you obviously can't worry about them.

John McCain Is A Liar.

MrInsight22 said...

1. McCain has gained 13 points since Rasmussen's last SD poll in July. Obama's hopes in ND, MT, and one CD EV in Nebraska are now dashed. I expect MN and IA to show some spillover effect too from their conservative neighbors.

2. Disregard a candidate's maximum polling number all year as a guide to election day. At one point, Dukakis was ahead by 17 points in the polls and he ended up posing by 8.

3. With respect to 3-day trackers, even if you can know to a certainty what the numbers were for the day that is dropping out, you don't know what the new day will bring (unless you are a psychic) so why try to figure such things out mathematically. Just take a guess and have fun seeing if you are correct.

AxmxZ said...

I still don't understand how Gallup managed to poll McCain's support as consistently slipping and Rasmussen somehow pulled a +9 day on 9/11. Even with the "house" lean Republican, this is odd.

Geoff said...

Am-its a tough electorate to poll right now...too much uncertainty and fluctuations

Minnesota Mike said...

1. McCain has gained 13 points since Rasmussen's last SD poll in July. Obama's hopes in ND, MT, and one CD EV in Nebraska are now dashed. I expect MN and IA to show some spillover effect too from their conservative neighbors.

Minnesota is not nearly as rural as ND, SD, or MT. Most of the states population lives in the 7 county Metro area. The Twin Cities suburbs lean conservative but Minneapolis and to lesser extent St Paul are as liberal of cities as you will find anywhere.

westcoast conservative said...

In response to overrated's comment regarding Harvard education vs intelligence.

Matt Damon did indeed attend Harvard but dropped out prior to finishing his studies and did not receive a degree. George Bush also attended Harvard Business college and graduated with an MBA.

I have seen endless posts regarding President Bush's alleged inferior intellect. According to you, everyone who went to Harvard (and I guess that means any ivy league college) is not only not an idiot but instead is a person possessing considerable intelligence. Does this mean you really believe GW's IQ is well above average? Btw.. did you graduate from Harvard?

AxmxZ said...

There's also the small issue of how one gets accepted into Harvard and later doesn't get flunked out. You can do it by performing spectacularly in high school and excelling in your studies, or you can be a legacy, or you can do and be both. Bush was either the second or the third. I'm willing to bet my entire intrade account that he was not the third.

Francis Deblauwe said...

Using Pollster.com's excellent interactive feature, I've just compared Google Insights graphs of the parties' popularity in MN with Pollster.com graphs of the candidates in the same "toss-up" state. Interesting similarities and contrasts... See my Word Face-Off blog.

egapre said...

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平平 said...

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