Today our Road to 270 series continues with the Hawkeye State, Iowa.
A FIELD OF DREAMS and a classic Midwest battleground, Iowa is not easily categorizable in our demographic data. It's also a state that tends to know presidential candidates very well due to its critical early caucus, though not always. Bill Clinton essentially skipped the state in 1992 because home-stater Tom Harkin (up for a shoo-in Senate re-election this year) was sure to win it. Perhaps because candidates tend to work the state so hard, or perhaps because Iowans take extra pride in their civic responsibilities, the state ranks high in voter turnout.
Other than its very high senior population, with nearly 20% over 65 years old, and its high share of manufacturing jobs, Iowa sits squarely in the median of most American states on most other categories we track. In religious categories, for example, it has a nearly median white evangelical vote, a median Catholic vote share, and a median Mormon/LDS share. Education, "American" ancestry, and the Likert score for liberal-conservative rating sits squarely in the median as well. Iowa is a classic battleground.
Key Demographics
Note: Factors colored in red can generally be thought to help McCain. Factors in blue can generally be thought to help Obama. Factors in purple have ambiguous effects. Except where otherwise apparent, the numbers next to each variable represent the proportion out of each 100 residents in each state who fall into that category. Fundraising numbers reflect dollars raised in the 2008 campaign cycle per eligible voter in each state. Figures for seniors and youth voters are proportions of all residents aged 18+, rather than all residents of any age. The figure for education reflects the average number of years of completed schooling for all adults aged 25+. The figure for same-sex households reflects the number of same-sex partner households as a proportion of all households in the state. The liberal-conservative index is scaled from 0 (conservative) to 100 (liberal), based on a Likert score of voter self-identification in 2004 exit polls. The turnout rates reflect eligible voters only. Unemployment rates are current as of June 2008.
What McCain Has Going For Him
John McCain can be happy that Iowa, which gave its Democratic caucus vote in 2004 to John Kerry, went on to prefer George Bush by less than 1%. Bush won Iowa's seven electoral votes. However, McCain didn't fare well in the Iowa caucus, finishing a distant third behind Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney with 13% of the vote. His politically gutsy opposition to corn ethanol didn't win him many admirers in Iowa, and this is probably one reason McCain is struggling to stay in contention here for the general election. It's likely a huge factor in McCain's terrible per capita fundraising numbers here (3d worst).
On the other hand, it's likely the pick of Sarah Palin has helped McCain consolidate his Republican base here. Since Mike Huckabee's religious conservatism played well enough for him to beat Romney's massive money operation, we know that Iowa Republicans are, in their base, the type of voters who we've seen drawn to Palin's candidacy. Still, McCain has an uphill climb in Iowa.
What Obama Has Going For Him
Barack Obama has a huge head start in Iowa for the general election based on the long retail politics campaign he ran during the caucus season. Voters know him in the state. The grassroots volunteer organizations simply came over intact for the general election and were up and running full bore from the getgo. McCain has had to build his from scratch.
As has been widely discussed, this is one of those states where Obama may have a reverse Bradley effect going on, if such an effect still exists. Nate projects that 56.9% of undecideds in Iowa will break for Obama.
Recent polling of the state point to Iowa being the Democratic Party's safest pickup from 2004, as multiple polls show Barack Obama with double digit leads. Five Thirty Eight currently projects Obama outside the Penumbra Zone here, at 10.5%, though as a red state in 2004 it can't be taken for granted. We'll somehow be there tomorrow night and Thursday morning, and we'll check whether McCain is seriously contending the state, or has pulled his resources out.
What To Watch For
The first thing to watch for is if and when McCain essentially concedes the state. It seems at this point that he's more likely to pick off Minnesota than hold Iowa. Barack Obama is not taking Iowa for granted, as Kerry States + Iowa is usually the starting point for plotting out a winning Democratic map. If you see either candidate scheduling visits this late in the campaign, it indicates their internal polling is telling them the state may be in play. If not, it's a tell that both know which way the 7 EVs will blow.
Another thing to look for in Iowa is the House races. In the rising-tide-lifts-all-boats sense, if 2008 is another downballot wave year, look for the longshot 4th and 5th CDs. Iowa Dems pulled off one of their most stunning upsets at the House level in 2006 when Dave Loebsack picked off moderate Republican (and Denver convention speaker) incumbent Rep. Jim Leach. The governor's seat is next up in 2010.
Note: please excuse our delay in this series, and strap in for a day-by-day sprint to the finish.
9.23.2008
Road to 270: Iowa
by Sean Quinn @ 6:20 PM...see also iowa, road to 270
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369 comments
Does anybody know when CNN/TIME is supposed to come with new swing state polling?
Looks like both McCain and Obama have some work to do. If the polls are tied Friday for the first debate this could get very interesting.
So Iowa has shifted since 2004...why is that? Is it because the demographics of the state have shifted, with more young and immigrant voters, or are the voters that are there voting differently than they did in 2004?
I've long thought that Iowa was firmly in Obama's camp. Is there really any thought that McCain could do well here?
Perhaps no state is divided in their party preference east and west as much as Iowa.
You can draw a line along the Avenue of the Saints (aka I-380); between that and the Mississippi R.- blue. Between that and the Missouri R. - red.
There is an interesting ribbon of liberalism that starts along the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities and extends to both banks in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa and Illinois.
The key to 270 in the Upper Midwest will be found along that ribbon.
LA Times / Bloomberg poll:
When asked which candidate could do a better job of handling the financial crisis:
Obama 48, McCain 35
79% of adults also say they think the country is “on the wrong track,” the highest ever recorded by the Times Poll.
QuadCity poll Iowa
Obama 52
McCain 39
thats a fake poll..LOL
McCain has no chance in Iowa.I think he is starting to pull out of the state and moving to Indiana.
Real Joe-
What do mean it's a fake poll? I've heard of it before. Quad City is a place in Iowa too.
;-)
It´s all about ethanol... the one special interest Obama decided to pursue.
Btw, Sean & Nate, you might want to check out the latter Colorado Springs comments in regards to comment moderation.
Perhaps no state is divided in their party preference east and west as much as Iowa. :
Oregon or Washington.
I've been wondering why Iowa is so blue this year, and Nebraska so red? I would think some of the same factors would impact Nebraska. For instance, some speculate that Iowa is blue, due to ethanol, Isn't corn a major crop in Nebraska?
I don't think the long primary season in Iowa is the only reason. Nebraska went strongly for Obama over Clinton in the primary as well, I think he got twice as many delegates.
Anybody have any ideas about Nebraska?
Technically, there is no Quad City in Iowa.
There's a Quad Cities that spans both Illinois and Iowa. Amusingly enough, it's actually a combination of five towns (Bettendorf, Moline, East Moline, Rock Island, Davenport).
Maryland is deeply red on the eastern side of the Chesapeake, and deeply blue on the western side (though it gets redder again as you move into the northwestern panhandle).
Perhaps no state is divided in their party preference east and west as much as Iowa.
Even California. The coast areas (including Los Angeles and San Francisco) are very Democratic. Every inland is very Republican. San Bernardino county was one of Bush's best counties, I believe.
Alex-
Ignore the trolls. They seem to have left. Comment moderation would just make this another Daily Kos and now with the other forum we have another option anyway.
Oregon and Washington are certainly blue in the metro areas and red everywhere else. Much like Iowa.
It was strange that Bush won Iowa in 2004 when Dukakis won it easily by more than 10% in 1988.
So Iowa has shifted since 2004...why is that?
Two big reasons, both alluded to by Sean: (1) Obama, being from a big corn producing state, has always supported ethanol while McCain hasn't and (2) Obama campaigned intensely here for months before the first caucus, while McCain focused on NH. Throw in a general shift toward Democrats across the country and you have an Obama blowout in a once and future purple state.
will walker when is the rest of that poll coming out?
Please no comment moderation. It's stupid and leads to acrimony.
Just ignore posts you don't like.
I've heard Orange County, CA is very republican. That they even really like Nixon there. Is that true? Iowa is closer in some polls than I would think and a blowout in others. What is the chance for McCain in the 538 poll?
Today's polls are WONDERFULLY WINNING!!! For John McCain!!!
Anybody have any ideas about Nebraska?
Obama is doing as well as or slightly better in Nebraska, relative to Kerry, than he is doing in Iowa, relative to Kerry.
I've always felt that Iowa has a strong tradition of being anti-war (some would call it isolationist), and the Iraq war has been very unpopular there nearly from the get-go. At least, that's my humble impression. Perhaps this helps Obama a lot too?
Kelly>
Nixon was from somewhere in California so it makes sense they would consider him a local guy. LA is definitely not Conservative though. Just think of where Hollywood is located.
Nebraska looked like a possible pickup for Obama a couple of months ago but it looks like he has no chance there now. The whole election basically is coming down to one or two states like CO and PA.
Obama has no chance in Nebraska.
Iowa not only has a "very high senior population," it has a high very senior population; Iowa has the nation's highest percentage of people 85 and older.
Have you guys checked out the new forum yet? It's neat!
Iowa + New Mexico + Colorado = MMM!
OBAMA 4 PREZ
I've never been anywhere with better people than those in Iowa. Iowans are good, serious, honest, decent, kind people. Not all of them, of course, but a startlingly high percentage.
I've heard Orange County, CA is very republican. That they even really like Nixon there. Is that true? Iowa is closer in some polls than I would think and a blowout in others. What is the chance for McCain in the 538 poll?
Very, very true. Orange County is an absolute lock for Republicans for every election. It has never voted for Republican for president since FDR. Bush got about 60% of the vote in 2004; 55% in 2000. Even Goldwater in 1964 got 55%.
"I've never been anywhere with better people than those in Iowa. Iowans are good, serious, honest, decent, kind people. Not all of them, of course, but a startlingly high percentage."
I recently moved to North Dakota, and they are absurdly nice.
Nate,
You should really update your data from 2004.
2004 IA Rep +4400 Voter registration.
2006 IA Dems +18000 voter registration
2008 August IA Dems +99,000 voter registration.
In a relatively small population state like IA a shift of 105,000 voter registration is huge. It's 35D, 30R, 35I
IA is an easy flip for Obama but wehn you do these state profiles you should really look for some more up to date voter reg data.
McCain closes office in Iowa - Forced to defend Indiana
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/23/144745/150/435/607725
Given how moderate Iowa looks on the stats, it would be interesting to know why it's a +8 for Obama on the 538 regression.
I understand why he's winning the polling there. He's campaigned there continuously for well over a year, and McCain blew them off. But I don't understand how that feeds into the regression model. (Unless the model is taking campaign visits into account, which would be smart, but not the kind of thing I thought it did.)
Bloomberg numbers can be inferred from article:
Obama 45.7
McCain 43.4
McCain came in fourth in the caucus, behind Fred Thompson.
otf-
Could some of that registration shift be that absurd "Operation Chaos" thing that Limbaugh did last spring. Someone was talking about it earlier on another thread and I'm curious if people in the midwest listen to that arrogant blowhard.
As an Iowa resident, I found this analysis perfunctory. The one thing that seems obviously wrong is the suggestion that CD's 4 and 5 might go Democratic. As has been pointed out, there is a marked East (Blue), West (Red) divide here. Some of the northwestern counties are remarkably conservative. Check out Sioux County, which in each of the last two Presidential elections went Republican about 7 to 1. This place is a lot redder than stereotypically blue Johnson County (home of the University of Iowa and me) where the voting has been about 2/3 Democratic.
The other thing that I hear over and over (comments here, a West Wing episode, the NYTimes) is that x's courageous opposition to ethanol really hurts X in Iowa. Without going into the pros and cons of corn ethanol, this just isn't as influential as people think in determining voting patterns here. Iowa now has, for example, a Democratic governor and the Democrats control both houses of the legislature. Yet both Democrats and Republican politicians ardently support ethanol.
A commentator wondered why Iowa went for Dukakis in 1988. Remember the farm crisis of the 1980s. Iowa's economy really was hurting leading to anti-incumbent (Republican in this case voting).
Why is Obama doing well here? (1) the caucus where lots of people got to know him, while McCain campaigned half-heartedly; (2) his laid-back manner plays better here than hot anger; and (most importantly) the state has just trended Democrat in the past four years and Obama is part of this.
Finally, Iowa isn't much like Nebraska -- it has more affinities (especially in the East) to Minnesota, western Illinois, and Wisconsin,
porridgegun,
Look for McCain to move to defend NC soon too. The last 4 polls are:tie,M+3, tie, M+1
Those Bloomberg numbers are awfully close considering that it is a Dem-leaning poll. I would be much happier if Obama was up five or more points. With the economic news it's crazy that McCain even has a chance.
InkStain...where at..I am a lifelong North Dakotan
Are those Bloomberg numbers for the national race or just one state? That is pretty close, considering most of the others are in the 47-44 range for Obama. He has to debate well on Friday. Hopefully he is practicing his butt off down in FL.
Xbox live polled 100,000 gamers.
Here are the results:
Obama/Biden: 43 percent
McCain/Palin: 31 percent
Undecided: 13 percent
Other: 13 percent
Oddly, A large number of gamers support Ron Paul.
I have no idea what any of this means. Take it for what it's worth.
I just moved to Williston. I lived my whole life in rural Illinois, needed a new newspaper job, decided to move somewhere far away to get a change of pace.
The appeal of covering sports in a region where they actually play high-school hockey was too much to resist.
alex keaton,
IA has a caucus and they are the first on the election schedule. There was zero influence on it by the supposed "chaos" theroy".
Porridge gun, that Indiana story is BS.
Ben Smith erred in his reporting.
otf,
Those polls were taken during the economic panic. Lets see where they are after the debates. Polls taken last week during the "sky is falling" phase are as accurate as polls taken 7 days after the republican convention.
"Oddly, A large number of gamers support Ron Paul.
I have no idea what any of this means."
Gamers and libertarians are both inside the "Can't Deal With Reality" oval in the Great Venn Diagram of Life.
Inkstain-
You in the Fargo-Morehead area? Maybe we could get a pizza sometime and talk polling. I love this stuff. Pizza, that is.
"With the economic news it's crazy that McCain even has a chance."
1) He has very little chance.
2) The race returned to its natural state, the economic crisis just happened to speed up the move from the convention bumps. Obama +2 to 6 points is where the race has been almost the entire time, and that's where I expect it to end up.
McCain will flip NJ before he wins IA so it is no surprise if he is closing up shop now. It is a natural leaning (slight) Democratic state and with its proximity to IL and McCain's aversion to ethanol .. he could only win this state in a landslide. I think this was the one state everyone knew was going into OBama's corner.
@Inkstain -
In the heartland things are bigger than we think. Quad City is made up of 5 cities and the Big Ten encompasses 11 football teams.
Iowa is a lock for Obama.
"You in the Fargo-Morehead area? Maybe we could get a pizza sometime and talk polling. I love this stuff. Pizza, that is."
Sorry, about as far from there as you can be and still be in North Dakota. I'm up in Williston.
NaftaBlows---Williston is about as far away from FM as you can get.
InkStain..You should have moved to Eastern ND if you wanted to follow *good* HS hockey. I live in the western half and it's pretty bad. Welcome to the state though, you're right I haven't found nicer people anywhere
congratulations, the polls suck for McCain .. his only saving grace is that the Biden gaffe-machine is giving the RNC plenty of material to use in October.
".You should have moved to Eastern ND if you wanted to follow *good* HS hockey."
I've been a hockey fan since I was nine, and I've only gotten to see four games live. I won't know the difference :)
Dude you almost in South Dakota. They play HS hockey down your way? Who'd a thunk it. McCain's gonna win ND by a large margin I think based on all the McCain-Palin signs that are cropping up everywhere. This is a red state if there ever was one.
WARNING and CALL TO ACTION!
1. Someone clearly is using my screenname here deliberately, and I believe there are some others to whom this has happened!
2. I have been busy on the phone with a couple of internet experts and my lawyer to a)track this person down and b) take action for the damages that I have suffered.
Here's what I ask for as help:
1. If there are any internet experts here who can positively track ID this person down, I will provide a 4 figure sum as reward to the first person to do that.
2. Since whoever is doing this had done so with malice and forethought, my lawyer is looking into potential legal precedents. Clearly, the intent of this person besides damaging me personally in a public setting is also to squelch my free speech rights, which he/enjoys in this forum.
3. My intent to track this person down, find out how much he/she has in assets, that person's political affiliation (relationship to McCain camp) and then to take those actions that make sense. I am willing to spend up to $25K on this.
4. My goal is take this person to task and make the person pay!
I am the last person this person should have tried to screw with.
Anyone else who wishes to join in the effort, please speak up and I will provide contact info.
I have not run large global organizations to take this stuff lying down. I have time, money and the desire to bring this person to justice on my own!
Gamers and libertarians are both inside the "Can't Deal With Reality" oval in the Great Venn Diagram of Life.
This absolutely true. I used to be a big time gamer and would hang around videogame forums and whatnot. They were overwhelmingly libertarian, mostly because they have a rather simplified view of it and didn't really understand its application in reality.
I've always thought libertarianism sounds great in theory, especially when projecting oneself to all of society, but I never thought it made much sense as a practical governing philosophy in the modern world.
Inkstain is covering hockey as engaging as your previous post?
Yeah ND is very red, presidentially anyways. I really do believe that if all the young voters actually voted Obama would have a shot, but I just don't think that will happen.
Thank you Michael, that makes sense.
After leaving my post here, I went to the Lincoln Sentinel(? I think) and looked up comments to see which way things trended. There had recently been a question about what most people's concerns were in the election and a good number said the economy. However, another paper, I think the Beatrice Daily Sun had an article on voter disinterest in Nebraska.
I know Nebraska isn't consider a swing state this time, I just wondered why. Well, back to agonizing over VA, CO, and FL!
"Dude you almost in South Dakota. They play HS hockey down your way? Who'd a thunk it. McCain's gonna win ND by a large margin I think based on all the McCain-Palin signs that are cropping up everywhere. This is a red state if there ever was one."
Not exactly, Williston is in the northwest corner of the state, an hour south of the Canadian border (to facilitate my immigration in a few years. I love hockey that much :) ).
We briefly had an Obama office up here, but it closed this week before I ever got a chance to visit it :( It was supposedly the first Presidential office ever opened in Williston, N.D.
"Inkstain is covering hockey as engaging as your previous post?"
I dunno, I haven't done it yet. Season starts in late November. Counting the days.
PPP: CO 51D/44R
Nice. Kerry + IA + NM + CO (maybe - NH) looks very possible now.
"Nice. Kerry + IA + NM + CO (maybe - NH) looks very possible now."
It's hard to see how it doesn't happen unless McCain has an incredible October surge. He'll need to gain around 5 points over current polling before he's safely breaking up that winning combination (3 points and he's got a chance, 5 points to be certain).
well InkStain if Williston makes the state tournament I'll buy you a beer. I go to school about a 5 minutes walk from where it is every year.
I'm originally from Trinidad and Tobago, and after emigrating here and watching hocky on TV i just never got it. Then I went to a live game. And my opinion changed completely.
The pace, the action, the violence it's a thrill.
Kerry - NH + NM + IA + CO = 269
As long as Obama wins in the end, that would be great! Probably the end of the electrical college as we know it (courtsey of Homer Simpson)
"I am the last person this person should have tried to screw with."
Lighten up, Francis.
Could any of you 538 veterans (I've read the site a bit but haven't commented) enlighten me on how ND's percentage for Obama is much much higher than all the other Plains states? Not that he's going to win ND either, but it is still interesting I think.
Quantman-
Noble effort but I'm afraid impossible. I've worked in IT for many years and I can tell you there's a number of issues with what you're thinking technologically and legally. Number 1 you wouldn't be able to prove any sort of malicious intent even if you could track down the people through any of the methods you suggest. You might, however, be able to get someone to ban their ISP from the forum. But then all they have to do is go to a coffee shop or public library to set up another account. This is a voluntary forum and it's possible some names would be duplicated accidentally due to the way Blogger works as well which poses further problems. So proving that someone actually did you material harm intentionally by their use of a similar name would be problematic. There are many other holes in your idea so if you've talked to an attorney I would guess he's pointed them out. Until greater regulation comes to the internet there will be people posting dumb crap just to see how others respond. Ignore all these trolls and they'll go away. Let's just defeat them with our ideas and they'll go home crying in November when their guy loses.
My sneaking suspicion:
Bradley Effect is a no-show on election day, but maybe, just maybe it shows up in the Electoral College in a 270-268 or 269-269 scenario.
I just can't imagine the pressure on those guys if it turns out that way.
Boulder Liberal:
'Lighten Up" after someone impersonates me in a public forum deliberately and with malice!
No way, Jose! No way.... Never!
I WILL track this person down!!!
I have a few solid security internet experts working on it, with a large financial incentive to track this person down!
He had some good polls in ND early, the demographics aren't horrible for him.
Think of 11% to win ND as the Reverse Reagan. The 11% of elections where Obama pulls ahead late and gets a bandwagon effect.
Valerie said...
Those Bloomberg numbers are awfully close considering that it is a Dem-leaning poll. I would be much happier if Obama was up five or more points. With the economic news it's crazy that McCain even has a chance.
Bloomberg/LA Times has consistently polled Bush as having higher approval ratings than other polls. LA Times has also become more right-wing in the last few years. Something to do with having new owners and the editor.
NaftaBlows:
I am tenacious! I never give up!
I did not get to where I am in life by giving up and doing the easy things!
Absolutely, this persona CAN and WILL be tracked down!
I will not TELL anyone here when I DO!
Sometimes it takes a while to smeel a rat. I've determined RCP leans Republican. Their website definitely focuses on the pro-McCain polls more than the pro-Obama polls. This has nothing to do with the credibility of the source of the poll. It has been consistent to my eyes for months now. It's okay to be partisan, but preferable if it's less subtle for those of us looking for good information.
If I impersonate quantman and turn myself in, can I collect the reward?
Bible and Gun in Hand:
Thanks for that compliment.
However, you don't scare me one bit!
I traveled to places and been in places for work and pleasure where there have been bombs and other stuff going on, in Latin America, Asia, Eastern Europe/Russia, pre Reagan.
So, I don't scare at all. Death never scares me......it ONLY motivates like nothing else!!
"I traveled to places and been in places for work and pleasure where there have been bombs and other stuff going on, in Latin America, Asia, Eastern Europe/Russia, pre Reagan.
"
Quantman is Bill O'Reilly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WObY922U-Ms
I recently moved to North Dakota, and they are absurdly nice.
I'm from Michigan and we're all total dicks. Ohio is the effing worst state in the union, though.
Inkstain:
I am looking for the person, or persons, who through impersonation say something here with malice and forethought about me, in a public forum. Since this is a strong arm attempt to squelch my free speech rights through impersonation, and thereby meant to limit and damage my free speech rights, I have the right to a remedy(ies) under the law!
We're a long way from President Obama yet. Schmidt, Rove, the whole GOP infrastructure are going to go down swinging. We're going to see Jeremiah Right, Aires, Bin Landen, Jesse Jackson, Al quaida, Black panthers, flag pins, Everything.
If McCain is behind, watch out. The GOP isn't going to let the first African American beat them without shooting every piece of ammo they got. It will be unbelievably ugly.
They're gonna paint Obama as a comme-marxist-radical-American hating traitorous terrorist from tribal Indonesia.
ERIC
RCP is a right-leaning neo-con website, but they have been around for awhile so this bias is well-established & fairly transparent.
They are closely tied to FAUX & Murdoch including on agenda & narrative.
Just like on FAUX News, they 'profess' to be fair & 'balanced' - but the scales tip so much toward the right that this is ridiculous assertion.
They will provide a few links to center & liberal articles, but the bulk of their links & the slant of the commentary as well as the polls chosen tilt heavily to favor the GOPers.
RCP features anything Rove or Dickie Morris to further the 'house effect'.
Pollster.com on the otherhand clearly tilts to the left, but with much more subtley IMHO.
so do like many of us do & monitor multiple sites as well as 538 for a range of coverage then do your own 'weighting'...
OK, where's the motherkissing polling update?
McPOW cuts ad purchases by 40pct in Iowa, closes offices. To send staff support and ad buys to defend Indiana. Moves of a losing campaign. Two weeks and he'll abandon Nevada...watch.
Hey dcm old pal! I had no idea about RCP -are you sure?
"I am looking for the person, or persons, who through impersonation say something here with malice and forethought about me, in a public forum. Since this is a strong arm attempt to squelch my free speech rights through impersonation, and thereby meant to limit and damage my free speech rights, I have the right to a remedy(ies) under the law!
"
No, you don't. Their right to parody you is free speech as well.
Number1Stunner:
I abhor violence!
My goal is to find the appropriate legal remedy (ies). Since I have the time and money, I can delegate this to others.
If by doing so, I can bankrupt the person(s) doing this to me by making them defend themselves in court, then the money would be well spent!
The power of the pen and money working through the courts is more powerful than the sword!
Anyway, I delegate my stuff......
The press's attempts to interview Sarah Palin get desperate:
http://images.politico.com/global/callme.jpg
mccain is fucked!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/politics/w24davis.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
ink: I thought Palin could have showed more 'leg' to Karzai- what's your view?
Inkstain:
Then if you do it, it would my pleasure to delegate to others, some of my assets, in search of a legal ruling that could perhaps set a precedent.
In any event, I find public good in going after people like you! MOney well spent!
assmole
you have to sincerely ask Nate in a 'nice' socially acceptable voice for him to provide his daily polling update...
is that even possibly ?
My view? If Palin becomes our official "hot politician," we will essentially be tied with France and behind the Ukraine.
That is not acceptable. America can not deal with mid-range looks in its hot politicians. We should be a world leader.
dcm: I don't like these 'on the road' shenanigans now- nice concept but now it's messing my timings up.
Are we seriously going to bring this:
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/photos/Gov-Palin-2006_Official.jpg
To the world stage and let Ukraine laugh it up and respond with this?
http://en.for-ua.com/files/images/blog/Yulia_Timoshenko.jpg
Utterly embarassing.
stunner: all the trolls here got their asses kicked when small. or worse.
I was reading the new york times article on McCain's debating style.
Strikes fear in to me man! Guy is pugnacious, funny, wry, aggressive, pithy.
He's going to be much harder to tie than Hillary.
Quantman-
Here are a few of your problems. You can't claim defamation when using a screen name. You can't be defamed if nobody knows who you are. Legally, fraud and misrepresentation just like trademark infringement require you to show some sort of commercial or other injurious effect. Once again since nobody knows who you are you would not be able to show that. And as all electronic personalities are anonymous in some manner (how do you prove who was at the computer that day and typed a specific passage) you have no real footing. If you are that concerned about your prestige here in the forum you can create a new Blogger identity. I feel for you man as I've been impersonated here too but I know that I just need to ignore the trolls. They seem to have left anyway and we also have the new forum if they're getting on our nerves too much. I'd also be cautious of some of the threats you are throwing out. Someone pretending to be you can not be shown to be a material threat. You saying threatening things and using a lot of exclamation points could cause someone to believe you are unbalanced and could desire to harm them. You might be the one this comes back on, especially now that you're getting into it with multiple posters. Just don't feed the trolls and they'll go away.
OK, no more talk from me on this stuff...........
ONLY ACTIONS!!
I will delegate!
Over and OUT!
Looks like we North Dakotans are decidedly overrepresented at 538 compared to our population at large.
Maybe I'm biased, but it appears to me Pollster is balanced, no bias whatsoever, RCP on the other hand is biased to the right. I will admit freely that NBC has a left bias, CNN has a slight left bias, FOX has a hard right bias, WSJ right, NYT left, AP right. The only fair arbiter is PBS, C-SPAN doesn't count since they're procluded from having any opinion at all. It's bad, I'd say if I remember the media wasn't really biased at all up until recently. Reagan got them to tilt left, then Clinton and the left tilt, got the right wing radio and FOX to go hard right, and now we have a clusterf*** of bad journalism or at least journalism where it's hard to find any truth.
"Looks like we North Dakotans are decidedly overrepresented at 538 compared to our population at large."
Well, so are Alaskans on Presidential tickets. Wyoming needs to step up.
this imitating other people's profiles and arguing is so ridiculous.
Honestly---why?
just ignore the annoying people , they thrive off of a reaction like a childish bully.
Ignore 'em and they'll go away or at least you'll learn how to skip their posts and spot them easily.
assmole
but the 'road' series is Sean
and the polling updates are exclusively Nate from his secret bunker below the U of Chicago
- or is Nate running his simulations from the pressbox @ Wrigley Field or US Cellular Field [ugh what a name...] when the BB teams are in town...
I don't get the bias idea for pollster and rcp -since they just pool stuff from both sides.
"we have a clusterf*** of bad journalism or at least journalism where it's hard to find any truth."
Chant it with me now: TV news commentary isn't journalism :)
The NYT editorial board skews left. Their news staff does not.
I watched FOX for a while this evening, even their news coverage is tilted right. Its ridiculous. For a political ideology to have a propaganda network for public consumption, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.
"I don't get the bias idea for pollster and rcp -since they just pool stuff from both sides."
RCP is known to change around cut-off dates for polls, not to mention their decision to include Battleground but not R2000.
So Sarah Palin has decided to sue SNL and Tina Fey for daring to impersonate her. By name no less. How far do you think that will go?
dcm, I heard nate was also on the road but if he's not then he has no excuse for tardiness.
When are the polls out today?
Who is polling today?
note to self: don't talk to 'stunner'.
Polls? This is the North Dakota meet-up thread.
"America can not deal with mid-range looks in its hot politicians. We should be a world leader."
Since when has America been a world leader?
Like, when we "led" the coalition of the willing (US, Britain, and maybe 10 Australians) into war in Iraq.
Thanks to GWB, the neocons, and their enablers, "the world" thinks we are a joke.
Stunner, you're antagonizing him and annoying the rest of us as much as he is. Just let him vent, and enjoy the rest of the show.
I going to give a confident retort to Vanessa's worries. I'm someone who never expects my tema to win, but this time I feel good actually. 98% chance that this is your worst case scenario: McCain whoops Obama in the debate. Most of the MSM agree and MCCain makes up 5-7 points in the polls. Now he's up 3-4 points, Obama's got good ground to win on after that and unless McCain proves beyond a shadow of a doubt he's far more ready than Obama, Obama will have another surge back to the top or at least trickle back to the top. Don't forget McCain virtually has no chance of looking good in the last debate October 15th. He's had two surges in the general and hasn't held them for more than 5 minutes (about two weeks), because this country wants to vote for Obama, unless it just doesn't feel it can. It seems Obama will have to totally blow it at this point to not at least be even on election day. I've been watching him and McCain closely for 18 months or more. I see virtually no way McCain looks obviously more Presidential than Obama for the next 40 days, where Obama can't come back from it. That's worse case. Best case is Obama beats McCain and this thing is over. Tie goes to Obama too. close where McCain seems to be the winner and Obama stays at least tied. This is OBama's to lose, I don't think he'll choke. He's in a much better position.
stunner, please delete some of your posts - if nate reads them he will probably start molesting himself and forget to put up a polling update. And save the rest for the shrink.
hello losers
This blog is a lot of things it seems.
Seriously, are there any polls today to look out for. I am bored as hell.
I see that the NYT blogs, in light of Obama removing his resources from the state, have taken to calling North Dakotans racist.
Never mind the fact that, even if Obama loses the state, he's still set to do better in North Dakota than any white Democrat since LBJ.
Actually, the case could be made that Mr. Quantman is actually threatening to abuse the tort system for purposes of intimidation as well as threatening to cause bodily harm to specific members of this site (number1stunner, InkStain). He should tread very lightly at this point. Let's just drop this crap and talk about polling. This stuff is just silly. How about all the people online who have posted that Bush caused 9/11 and all that crazy crap? What if Bush went after them the way that this Quantman is blustering about. He doesn't have a leg to stand on and is just bloviating to try to intimidate other people on this site.
"No more trolling, let's talk polling!"
At this point, Obama has clear leads in Kerry + IA + NM + CO (+/- NM) and he's expanding the field to which McCain must play defense. The election is clearly his to lose.
After the first debate is out of the way, his campaign has to decide if it wants to consolidate and play a prevent defense, or keep McCain off-footed and continue to push Virginia and NC.
assmole
RCP 'selectively' chooses & highlights the polls it decides somewhat arbitrarily to include in it's survey. It is NOT entirely inclusive. Their decisions are singularly subjective. they also do not try to hide their agenda or ties to FAUX.
But the RCP polling averages does provide a useful snapshot approach for what it is. And RCP does include scarcer congressional & senate polling - but the confidence of that data is much lower.
Pollster is more inclusive of the polling data & avoids adding their own 'commentary' attached to the summaries provided. They let the data speak for itself mostly. RCP & Gallup & especially RR attach much too much partisan commentary.
However, Pollster separately does provide analysis & links that are clearly skewed toward a center/left bent IMHO. BUT Pollster is best at keeping the data apart from the analysis & charts & maps. The best of the lot for 'snapshot' analysis, but 538 & Princeton are best for predictive analysis - even though both have modeling flaws of their own...
jakam - do you have a link for that? Or the offending quote?
I'm looking right at the recent NYT political blog discussing ND, and race isn't mentioned once. It just says Obama is giving up on it.
eric: I see the polls as tied now with Obama getting a 7 point bump which he doesn't really need. I don't mind being wrong about it - makes election night more fun.
"Please no comment moderation. It's stupid and leads to acrimony.
Just ignore posts you don't like."
---
Personally, I'm fine with this plan except for the comment spoofing. I read here all day every day, but I don't post enough to have had the trolls spoof my username. That must be dealt with, however. I tried to read through the famous thread earlier today and it was so distracting I actually turned back to Politico.
In order to be able to really focus on the comments from both sides, you can't constantly be wondering whether those comments were actually posted by the regulars you've come to know. Whatever must be done to keep that from happening, it's got to be done. Otherwise, the intelligent commenters here from both sides of the election will have no choice but to move on.
Hell, I can't stand DarienCrow, but I sure don't want to see him having to deal with his username permanently being associated with gay porn. While there's nothing wrong (to me) with gay porn, I'm assuming he doesn't want to have Google searches on his moniker turning that up...
OK.
I think Obama should not play it safe since a lot of things are in the air. Go for VA and NC and FL and NV. Why not? Is it a matter of PA resources? Forget GA. Move that into NC.
It takes three seconds, usually, to figure out who the spoofer is.
And besides, why does it matter who posts what? The value of an idea is not in the poster.
"eric: I see the polls as tied now with Obama getting a 7 point bump which he doesn't really need. I don't mind being wrong about it - makes election night more fun.
"
Seven-point bump? Have the polls even been seven points worse for Obama than they are now? That'd be an RCP average of McCain +4. Have we ever seen that?
jakam - do you have a link for that? Or the offending quote?
I'm looking right at the recent NYT political blog discussing ND, and race isn't mentioned once. It just says Obama is giving up on it.
The one called "North Dakota Who?"
No I meant after the debates he gets 7 pts.
Rollbiz-
Agreed. Let's knock off the spoofing. It's annoying and not really that funny. Let's just talk about the polls.
Obama is looking solid in most of the Kerry states (other than NH). Things are close in MI, WI, and MN but does anyone think those will swing red unless somehow people get scared off by Obama? He looks strong in CO right now, and VI appears to be a long shot but a possibility. FL and OH probably go McCain, but Iowa and New Mexico are looking better for Obama all the time. The national trackers don't tell us that much because the winner of the popular vote could very easily lose the elctoral vote this year.
I am a first time voter in Iowa, feeling pretty good about that. In my area, a very rural area, we tend to be mostly pro-life and against same sex marriage, so McCain/Palin appeal to us. But we also have been hard hit, like everyone else, with factory closings and the loss of many jobs overseas. So we want a change in policy, and keep those jobs here, which some think Obama/Biden can do for us. So I think that is why we are on the fence. Of course, that is only an 18-year-old kids view, take what you want from it.
From the National Review | Good Read:
ARG puts Obama ahead of McCain, 50 percent to 46 percent (in PA…)
And I’m usually willing to cut a pollster some slack on the partisan breakdown of their sample. But for this poll, the sample was 53 percent Democrat and 39 percent Republican. And the 8 percent of independents break for McCain, 51 percent to 41 percent.
A reader notes that on Election Day 2006, exit polls found the voter pool in Pennsylvania to be 43 percent Democrat, 38 percent Republican, and 19 percent independent. In 2004, it was 41 percent Democrat, 39 percent Republican, and 20 percent independent.
If you plug in the same ARG results with the voter makeup of 2006, you get, by my calculations, McCain 49.1 percent, Obama 46.19 percent.
PENNSYLVANIA IS A TOSS UP
"The one called "North Dakota Who?""
Okay, I"m looking right at it. Here s the entire text of it:
"Senator Barack Obama started out the general election campaign with a strategy to inundate all 50 states with ground troops and extensive get-out-the-vote efforts. But at least one state has dropped off the list.
The campaign closed down its offices in North Dakota and transferred most of its staff members to neighboring Minnesota and Wisconsin, crucial swing states for Mr. Obama.
The Obama campaign also has a minimal staff in some states, including Georgia, Alaska and Idaho, implicitly acknowledging that it has given up on winning there.
But Wisconsin and Minnesota have potential for Mr. Obama. Minnesota, which has 10 electoral votes, has not voted for a Republican presidential candidate since 1972, and the Democratic margin increased in 2000 and 2004.
Wisconsin, which also has 10 electoral votes, has voted for the Democratic presidential nominee in seven of the last eight elections, but not by much: former Vice President Al Gore won by only 5,708 votes in 2000, and in 2004, Senator John Kerry carried the state by 11,384 votes."
Not one mention of race. Why is it that Republicans on this site just can't stop making stuff up?
NATE
looking like you may have to revise your senate power ratings.
a stunner if true:
Kentucky Senate SurveyUSA McConnell 49, Lunsford 46 McConnell +3
You have KY as a SAFE GOP hold - this result should drop ol' Mitch down to a leaner perhaps ?
he may be yet another in a long line of GOPer darkhorse losers out to get the boot in '08 - like Libby Dole is shaping up to get her fanny paddled in NC...
GO LUNSFORD !!! the path to 60 DEM seats [maybe even without Lieberman] continues to grow...
"
If you plug in the same ARG results with the voter makeup of 2006, you get, by my calculations, McCain 49.1 percent, Obama 46.19 percent.
PENNSYLVANIA IS A TOSS UP"
So if you use an imaginary poll that pretends this is 2006, Obama is losing in Pennsylvania.
If you use something the big people call "real life" and all the polls taken there, Obama is winning.
How can a state be a tossup if one candidate has failed to lead a single poll in the general election there? How many polls in a row does McCain have to fail to win before it's not a tossup?
Not one mention of race. Why is it that Republicans on this site just can't stop making stuff up?
Did you read the posts?
Also, I'm not a Republican.
If Dems want 60 seats then Obama's 7 point post-debate lead will come in handy.
Okay, I reread your original post and misunderstood it.
When you said "NYT blogs" you didn't mean the bloggers for the NY Times itself, you meant the commenters.
My bad.
ink: Nate is actually impersonating all of us with multiple identities. So technically he is responsible.
"Did you read the posts?
Also, I'm not a Republican."
So wait, you just tried to accuse the New York Times of being racist because of something the *commenters* said?
Seriously? Is Nate Silver responsible for everything the commenters say on here?
I said the blog. Without comments, a blog is just an article.
Withdrawn.
The Dems don't stand any chance of getting 60 seats in the Senate. NONE.
Mark My Words on that.
michael: as the polls stand of course they don't. that's a bit fricking obvious. If Obama gets the bounce I predict then its a doozy.
"The Dems don't stand any chance of getting 60 seats in the Senate. NONE."
That I will agree with. And I'm including 59+lieberman in that.
It's like McCain winning the GE, they'd have to win virtually every close race, and the odds are enormous.
MYTH OF A POLL EHHH?
Link: http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2008/PA08.html
Withdrawn.
Anyways, it wasn't every comment, just a handful.
I was just reading them, but I had to respond to the one that was clearly a Hillary supporter who whined about Obama "being shoved down their throat".
INKSTAIN
do you suppose that VA CON got Jack Black & Mule Rider & Pete Kent and some of those other trolls to follow him to his private oasis ???
geez, wouldn't that be nice....
I wouldn;t say there's NO chance of 60, but it is quite remote.
On the other hand, SUSA has Lunsford pulling within 3 points of McConnell today.
DCM--
If they act like assholes they get their IP address banned. It's not that difficult.
assmole... Would love to know of your future telling powers because no-one in their right mind can predict what will happen in a debate.
I mean I predicted McCain would get raped at Saddleback, turned out the man that got raped was Obama.
http://pollwatcher.forumcircle.com/index.php?
If anyone else wants to sign up.
"?MYTH OF A POLL EHHH?"
That's the real poll, where Obama was winning by four. Just like he's been winning every other poll in the GE.
Two things, first off to the idea that Pennsylvania is tied based on citing the ARG polls voter ID breakdown. There are over 1,000,000 more registered Democrats in Pennsylvania than Republicans. Her's a relevant link, though not the best one:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/22/opinion/main4034171.shtml?source=RSSattr=Opinion_4034171
Partisan right wing nutjob media use 1/2 facts to make their point. They're rarely accurate. I thin the number is 500,000+ more Registered Dems vs Repubicans than in 2006. Sorry to burst your bubble.
InkStain said...
At this point, Obama has clear leads in Kerry + IA + NM + CO (+/- NM) and he's expanding the field to which McCain must play defense. The election is clearly his to lose.
After the first debate is out of the way, his campaign has to decide if it wants to consolidate and play a prevent defense, or keep McCain off-footed and continue to push Virginia and NC.
I beleive Obama will win Virginia. I thin he's about 5 points ahead there right now. The earlier olls from a couple weeks ago were slightly misleading because both the McCain polls at +7 and +9 were severely flawed to the point of being useless. There are three polls out recently there where Obama's up 3,6, and 8 points and just one where McCain is up 2. That one is Ras and we all know about Ras.
If Pennsylvania is a tossup, so are:
WV, WY, UT, TX, TN, SD, SC, OK, NE, ND, MS, LA, KS, ID, GA, AZ, AR, AL and AK.
Those are all states Obama has won polling in as many times as McCain has won in PA in the general election cycle.
McCain seems to be heading out of Iowa and heading to IN...closing at least one office...
He had a big move for NC adding all of a platoon of 10 there ....what an idiot..
Michael,
You can't re-weight an unweighted poll. That's a population sample. It's just as likely, considering that the GOP self-identification is almost identical to 2006, that many people who are supporting Obama are now self-identifying as Democrats rather than independents. This assumption is supported by the rather lopsided results in the independent category.
Not saying this is the case, but reconfiguring the poll based upon 2006 doesn't make sense from a statistical point of view.
If Obama has another week of polling that puts him ahaed in VA 75% of the time, I'll consider it his. I'm just a little too conservative (lol) to go there based on a handful of polls.
Link for IN and NC info:
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/Mark%20Nickolas/blog/&blogId=4202
I'm still absolutely convinced that Obama is going to win Ohio.
@MATT J. H.
I watched FOX for a while this evening, even their news coverage is tilted right. Its ridiculous. For a political ideology to have a propaganda network for public consumption, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.
Matt,
Go watch MSNBC, Matthews, Olberman, and Maddow. Political Idealogy leaks into news. It is hard to find news that is not biased, I tend to like Lou Dobbs, because he calls BS on both sides.
"Not saying this is the case, but reconfiguring the poll based upon 2006 doesn't make sense from a statistical point of view."
It makes sense from a desperate-to-believe-McCain-isnt-losing-badly point of view.
"It is hard to find news that is not biased"
Buy any major newspaper. Rip out the opinion page. Enjoy your balanced news coverage.
NPR radio news is also very good.
This is my "light up a cigarette to make the bus come moment"...it worked yesterday:
Is the supertracker going to be updated any time soon?
Why you attacking me, it was the NATIONAL REVIEW that made this a story. Secondly if PA isn't a toss-up, then OH and FL aren't either. RCP has it at 2.5 for Obama right now!
Secondly, let's not forget about OPERATION CHAOS. There were plenty of Republicans in PA that registered as Democrats earlier this year... THAT MUST BE TAKEN INTO EFFECT!
MICHAEL
the pundits said in '06 that the dems could never get the parlay for a senate majority - but it happenned at the last second with almost every race breaking for the dems [especially VA & MT & MO]
it could yet happen again this year if it all breaks right with a rising DEM tide...
a longshot - but we shall see in Nov.
"Secondly if PA isn't a toss-up, then OH and FL aren't either."
Obama and McCain have both led polls in Ohio. Obama and McCain have both led polls in Florida.
Only Obama has led polls in Pennsylvania. Only. Obama. Never. McCain.
Let that sink in. The margin of error means that if the race in PA were only a 1 or 2 point Obama lead, just by dumb luck McCain would post a +1 in there somewhere. But he never has.
Secondly if PA isn't a toss-up, then OH and FL aren't either.
I'd call a tossup a state in which each candidate leads at least a quarter of the time.
If the same candidate leads every poll, even narrowly, I'm disinclined to call it a tossup.
I will acknowledge Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and New Hampshire look like the blue states Obama is vulnerable in in a close election. If I wanted to play offense and were McCain's camp, that's where I'd play, particularly becuase Penn has 21 electoral votes. But, assuming it's tied seems a little presumptuous for the Reds.
Iowa hates McCain since he is against ethanol and never has spent time there for the primaries and are proud of the send off they gave to Obama in January...Obama had staff there 2 years ago and has kept some of them there all along to keep their momentum...
McCain won't win Minnesota, despite what a few polls suggest. I suspect both Minnesota and Wisconsin are as safe as Iowa.
Michael is MORE PERSUASIVE IN CAPS!
"despite what a few polls suggest."
They don't even suggest that. They've suggested he can cut it close, but not that he can win it.
Okay... And.. Let's not forget in the Dem Primaries:
HRC Polling Average going into OH-PA Primaries:
PENNSYLVANIA
-----
CLINTON +6.1
Final Result
CLINTON +9.2
OHIO
-----
CLINTON +7.1
Final Result
CLINTON +10.1
Clinton received 3% more come election day. Could we see McCain as well??? Bradley Effect.
Inkstain you don't think Biden carrying on about no more coal could cost Obama PA?
That's pretty material.
McCain is not Clinton.
Of course, if he is, doesn't that mean he'll lose, just like Clinton did?
"Inkstain you don't think Biden carrying on about no more coal could cost Obama PA?"
Not really. He didn't "carry on," it was one clip.
And Obama's from a strong coal state and has a good record behind him on the issue, that should make him fine.
Clinton received 3% more come election day. Could we see McCain as well??? Bradley Effect.
That wasn't Bradley Effect. That was Known Commodity Effect. Undecideds tend to break for familiarity, and the Clintons are very familiar.
But, Micheal, if you want to use primary polling over/underperformance, I assure you there's a few states that would guarantee Obama winning that would make PA irrelevant.
only cave trolls try to convince people that there is a Bradley effect in anonymous polling...
how pathetically lame & ignorant of what the old canrad even means...
return to your troll cave MICHAEL
Obama will win Nev-ay-da.
1) A lot of Californians have moved there.
2) Obama over performed in rural NV.
3) NV has the highest rate of foreclosures.
That's in addition to the Yucca issue.
Wrost case scenario in a tight election for camp Obama. He flips Colorado and Virginia along with Iowa and New Mexico. Barely misses in Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Indiana, but he lose Pennsylvania because of the "Bradley Effect" that only takes place in a few states, but 1 important one. The polling suggests that the popular is a virtual tie, maybe Obama +1 in the national, the polling data for Pennsylvania suggests about 48-46 Obama for Pennsylvania. In the actual election: Results Obama 48% Mccain 48% Barr 2% Nader 2%. McCain wins by 535 votes and wins the elctoral college. I think this would be worse than a tie where the Dems in Congress give it to McCain. If this scenario takes place, I may have to move to Vancouver or Calgary.
yeh I noticed Obama gave $3M in earmarks for clean coal research.
Inkstain did you read that New York times article coming out tomorrow on how Rick Davis was making $15,000 per month from Fannie until last month? Do you think that could affect the race?
"Inkstain did you read that New York times article coming out tomorrow on how Rick Davis was making $15,000 per month from Fannie until last month? Do you think that could affect the race?"
It's just another data point in "McCain liar" narrative.
I honestly don't think much of anything will effect the election from this point on. We'll float a point or two either way with the debates, but the demographic and narratives are pretty much in place and it'll just have to play out from there.
"yeh I noticed Obama gave $3M in earmarks for clean coal research."
A big chunk of that was for a clean coal power station in my wife's hometown. It got scuttled by Bush, and they were furious.
Rick Davis was making $15,000 per month from Fannie until last month?
Was more like 35k. Plus his firm still represents them.
" If this scenario takes place, I may have to move to Vancouver or Calgary."
Unless you have an employer willing to hold a job for you, it takes about two years :(
"HRC Polling Average going into OH-PA Primaries:"
Good point! The primaries are *exactly* like the general election. That's why Obama is going to lose California!
That's absolutely sick. They should be able to keep McCain off balance with that.
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