The way to evaluate a speech like this is by what people are going to remember in the morning, and the only thing that people are going to remember about this speech in the morning is that she went after Obama -- a lot -- and that at times it it seemed fairly personal. It was almost kind of fun at first -- I don't think people saw it coming, and she got three or four really good lines in. But then it became too much -- sarcastic and mean-spirited. Everything else -- the outsider stuff, the family stuff, the media critique -- is going to be forgotten about. In fact, the Republicans will look like whiners if they go after the media after that speech.
I don't think the Republicans are doing as good a job as the Democrats were doing about pairing their speeches to the strengths of the speaker. It's as if they wrote seven or eight speeches, and drew lots to determine who would deliver which one. So you have Mitt Romney -- one of the wealthiest men ever to run for office -- critiquing east-coast elitism, and Mike Huckabee -- who is an economic populist in disguise -- critiquing big government, and Sarah Palin -- who voters don't know one iota about -- critiquing Barack Obama's biography.
9.03.2008
Palin's Speech: Second Thoughts
by Nate Silver @ 11:34 PM
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522 comments
oz -
The have done the same for McCain.
Except, they forget that McCain managed to deliver some of the best speeches in 1996, 2000, and 2004.
When he comes, he comes to play.
It will be a different style and delivery than Obama, but powerful in a unique way.
You guys have called him a bumbling old man so much that if he manages not to piss himself he will look like a star.
All of this bashing just blows up in your face time and time again.
You guys lost the election for Al Gore for that reason.
You said Bush was an idiot so many times that when he held his own against Gore, everybody thought he won!
The definition of insane is trying the same tactics over and over and hoping for a different result.
INSANE! McCain will hit a home run just by avoiding a strikeout.
Wow, more authoritarianism and swearing. Real classy, you do well to represent lefties everywhere.
I am a centrist, and I haven't decided how to vote, honestly.
I wish Obama would stop the anti disclosure bullshit about his past and tell anyone what his plans for the country are in specificity.
Also, I wish that fascists like you would stop sullying his name with your hateful attacks.
The speech was nothing but a pack of repeated lies. She LIED AGAIN about the Bridge to Nowhere. Either she gets called on it, or we could wind up with Commander LIAR in another 6 months.
Yeah, THAT makes sense. Repeat lies. Mmmm hmmm. No chance that you guys just CONSIDER them lies. Fact is, what she says is truthful. Same with Joe. He gains NOTHING from saying what he did....but I guess in your world of liberal reality....he's a self-destructive liar. That MUST be it.
nkpolitics1279;
They can go to Joe Lieberman and say You left the Democratic Party- You lost your Seniortiy Status.
Doubtless that they can do this. Also doubtless that it would be the stupidest move possible. Lieberman was the Dem VP just 8 years ago. The nutroots turned on him and lost in CT. Now they'll turn again and lose him completely. Do you think he's the only Dem that holds the views he does? Do you think those Dems will stay for such similar abuse? Can BO win without them?
You friggin' idiot. The best move is to bring Lieberman back into the fold but you are so stupid with hatred that you cannot contemplate such a move. And Harry Reid is to slow in the brain to do it either.
Your leaders suck and the loudest cheerers in your party, nutrooters like you, are stupid.
And I'm loving it.
Oz.
Who is "cainer?"
STS,
Once again the hypocrisy goes right over your wingnut head. Impose religious views of the wingnuts is okay trying to creationism and school and prayer is okay. Thanks for proving my point for me.
JQB:
Denying reality doesnt change it.
Obama has ties to Ayers that he needs to explain, and he needs to condemn AND distance himself from Ayers and admit his mistake.
Perhaps then he can survive the coming storm on Monday over the CAC.
jodie is a typical tolerant liberal Democrat.
They are so offended by hate speech but yet love to deliver it.
This is new politics, hope and change.
Not what you expected?
I think we know who the phonies are tonight.
The ONLY way Obama combats this is by making the (honestly true and legitimate) points that Palin represents a tacking by McCain to the far right - a trend we've been seeing all along, and that his tacking right is at the behest of others (i.e., he wanted Lieberman but was forced to pick Palin). Sure this is good for republicans, who want to know the party is strong, but it's bad for America to have a president with his hands tied behind his back, and it's bad for independents who are a second thought in all of this.
I agree with this, but I wonder if the Obama campaign has the stones to get up off the mat and fight.
otf,
ROFL!!!! You just don't consider it murder. That's FINE! I am not for legislation of that sort of thing..but I GET BOTH ARGUEMENTS....in your temper tantrums, you prove that you get only one side of it.
Cainer is the nickname some use for McCain.
I used to be in charge of field operations in a major state in the primary, and that's what we called him.
Cainer is cool, but the GOP itself is sick as a party, and his campaign is a steaming bag of shit re organization in the field.
Turned me off from Cainer and I have been seriously vetting Obama in my own way, that's why i know more than you lefties do about his background even though he's your Messiah.
I may still support him, and i will decide after the debates.
Your minds are so clouded and fixed with hate that logical discussion is not possible it appears.
ALERT !!!!!!
Who watched the DAILY SHOW today (or yesterday depending on your time zone) ????
Jon Stewart calls all the hypocrites out on their DOUBLE STANDARDS ...
From "King Kullen" Karl Rove to Bill O'really to DICK Morris to Nancy Pfotenhauer to Palin to Hannity ...
Some are now screaming sexism, when just LAST November they were crucifying Hillary (DICK
Morris, Nancy Pfotenhauer ) ...
Some are claiming Teenage pregnancy is a private matter NOW ( but O'really labeled Britney
Spears' sister a PINHEAD because she got Pregnant and BLAMED HER PARENTS ) ...
Some are CLAIMING Palin is "experienced" and YET ROVE stipulated TIM KAINE was NOT ready to
govern ...
TALK ABOUT DOUBLE STANDARDS ...
HYPOCRITES ...
John m -
She did kill the bridge project.
She was for it, and then the cost doubled and she killed it.
Get over it.
With Kerry he voted FOR the troops and then voted AGAINST them.
She advocated FOR the bridge, but then changed her mind when the cost doubled and was AGAINST it.
See the difference. Kerry ended his musings AGAINST funding our troops
She ended hers AGAINST the wasteful bridge.
Too complicated to understand? The rest of America seems to get it.
Brace yourselves for another wild ride tomorrow...
STM,
You do realize that I never brought up abortion you did. I said impose religious views by trying to teach creationsm, which is theology and prayer in school which is theology. You run to abortion b/c you have no defense to the fact they push their religious views on others by creatiosm and prayer in school. Keep put of our lies excpet to force others to learn our theology. Yes defend the hypocrisy,
geoff: Wait a second. "If Obama wins, i will support him as my president." - but isn't Obama a dangerous terrorist with ties to Indonesia and Pakistan and William Ayers? How can you support such a person?
Look, either you think Obama is an emanation of pure terrorist evil, or you don't. If you do, how can you entertain the idea of supporting him? If you don't, why constantly bring up terrorism?
Doubtless that they can do this. Also doubtless that it would be the stupidest move possible. Lieberman was the Dem VP just 8 years ago. The nutroots turned on him and lost in CT. Now they'll turn again and lose him completely. Do you think he's the only Dem that holds the views he does? Do you think those Dems will stay for such similar abuse? Can BO win without them?
Name another Senator in the Democratic caucus out stumping for McCain. Heck, name another Democratic senator who supports the Iraq war as stridently as Joementum does. It's not abuse. It's discipline. There's a reason the third highest post in the House is the "Majority Whip". If your party lacks discipline, you'll never get a thing done.
Rove said Tim Kaine has accomplished nothing.
I think everybody realizes that Palin has, and in less time.
Also, Rove said he would be a bad pick, he did not say he was unfit to govern.
Check your facts.
Wow, more authoritarianism and swearing.
The two have no connection, cretin.
Real classy, you do well to represent lefties everywhere.
I'm not trying to be classy, moron. Nor do I represent anyone, idiot. Even on the simplest matters, you are simply a very stupid person and, like Palin, you will convince no one but other very stupid people.
Good night.
mattew h wrote:
All three days will include Palin's speech, two days and part of a third will have McCain's. Short of a disaster at the debates, that's as high as McCain gets.
I agree.
Unfortunately, and as I pointed out earlier, there will be something new that "completely changes everything" for McCain by Saturday.
But Saturday will tell the tale.
And McCain will be on public financing from then, too.
AX:
I never said Obama is a terrorist.
I am very concerned about his ties to Ayers.
Going to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport does not make Obama a terrorist, AX, it suggests he claimed indonesian citizenship at some point.
Obama needs to clear up both of the above and he may have my vote and those of many other centrists.
Additoinally, even if he doesnt, if he wins, he's my president and i will support him.
That's what an American does, AX.
I challenge you to make a similiar pledge re Cainer.
I would hope that the rest of America was as horrified by what they saw tonight as I was, but after watching George Bush get elected twice I'm not prepared to take that chance. I do know now more than ever that this election will not be won in the blogosphere. Talk is cheep. If you really want an economy that works for working families, a foreign policy that represents the best of this country and a chance that our kids' future will be better than the last eight years, get in the game. Log on to Barack's website, volunteer and spend every free second you have between now and Nov. 4 registering new voters and making the case to your as yet undecided friends, relatives and neighbors in the way that only you can. I can tell you that after tonight I've never been more committed to doing the same.
Republican trolls, two points:
- enough with the prefab talking points. There are no undecideds reading comments on a political blog at 2 am EDT. You are wasting your time.
- On that note, enough with the "Im an undecided independent and now I am voting for mccain" BS. THERE ARE NO UNDECIDED VOTERS READING COMMENTS ON A POLITICAL BLOG AT 2 in the morning.
Very stupid eh JQB?
AGain, all you have is ad hominems, no logic, no reason.
That is the failure of the hardcore left.
filistro,
Yeah, more smut. Try that one again..a tabloid? Are you serious?
You guys are running a campaign and your way of making a point is with a tabloid? Come on. This is serious politics. Serious. And you've got a tabloid. A tabloid.
*said in Allen Iverson "practice" tone*
Why aren't the Dems hammering on the tax policy differences between the two?
Blue-collar and working families are worse off than they were in 2000 despite steady increases in nationwide wealth.
The gap between rich and poor grows with each passing year of Bush/McCain tax cuts.
Obama's much heralded tax increases are actually much more generous to 90% of the population than McCain's tax package.
Obama's tax increases only materially affect couples earning more than $250K/year. Can't the bottom four quintiles of independents be convinced that they're better off economically by voting Obama?
Why does the drastic demographic change in income distribution since 2000 go unremarked upon by the Dems?
michael! Congrats on being a douchebag!
hey Dingo, Democratic Troll:
I am a centrist, and i do not appreciate your ad hominem attacks.
Use logic and reason.
filistro -
Remember, the National Enquirer is right 1% of the time.
This will look like another attempted smear, and backfire. America decided the like this chick based on the reaction on the local news in BOSTON of all places.
The US Weekly cover was engineered by and Obama supporter who gave $5300 dollars to his campaign.
I bet they try to retract it. They are going to kill their brand if they do not have the facts right.
They rely on women to buy those things.
Several comments have said this is the night Obama lost the election. I don't think so. For me, the entire evening, culminating in Palin's speech, energized me in an exciting way taking me to my computer to make a sizeable donation to Obama-Biden. It reminded me the Republicans are good at below-the belt and sharp elbow rhetoric --- from Guiliani, Huckabee, and capped of with the woman few of us know, Governor Palin, As I listened to each speech, I was reminded McCain's courage as a POW is not enough to qualify him as President of the United States. The Republicans lose on all the issues and are totally without direction on the econonmy, health care, energy, the environment. The next 60 days will be interesting. It was indeed a good night for the Republican base, but it was also a very good night for Obama-Biden in reigniting the spark that just says, "Enough." John McCain (irrespective of Palin's addition) is 4 more years of lackluster. stale Bush policies.
iorg,
Obama would be a fool to spurn interest into his tax policies. They are the kiss of death to the economy. Designed to make Uncle Sam richer. Not you or I. Come on. Get real.
mason;
Name another Senator in the Democratic caucus out stumping for McCain. Heck, name another Democratic senator who supports the Iraq war as stridently as Joementum does. It's not abuse. It's discipline. There's a reason the third highest post in the House is the "Majority Whip". If your party lacks discipline, you'll never get a thing done.
I'm not talking about party officials, you goose, I'm talking about voters. You know, the people of CT that sent Ned back to the fringe where he belongs.
You are setting up Lieberman, VP candidate just 8 (8!) years ago to do a 'I didn't leave my party, my party left me' speech. And invite other Dems tired of the hatred and bigotry and sexism to come with him and join the Maverick and Palin in their push to the Whitehouse.
You remember Nate's comment that it hardly seems like a Republican convention and more like a McCain convention? Funny that. Maybe the Maverick realizes his brand is stronger than his party's.
I mean, you guys are so damn mad at me for insulting you for being dim about this (which you are) you think you would try to turn my smarmy attitude on me and ask how to defeat McCain. Of course, that only proves how blinded you are because I've been telling you the whole damn time, you just don't listen to what I say.
Oz.
iorg -
Obama's tax cut is a complete myth.
Do not be so gullible.
He is going to let the Bush tax cut expire, and then just give some back what they have today, right now.
That is a tax cut? That is just a fat lie.
People will pay what they pay right now, today AFTER his tax cut.
The left is way too gullible.
politicallysavvy,
go ahead, even FURTHER increase your tax burden! ROFL!!!
geoff: First of all, the last time Ayers was a terrorist and not an educator or something else, entirely unrelated to terror, was when Obama was 8 years old. So I don't think anyone not a priori obsessed with the idea of Obama being a dangerous plant from some shadowy terror organization intent on overthrowing America and possibly sodomizing all of its white women can seriously entertain the idea that Obama's acquaintanceship with Ayers signifies anything more than their being two notable figures with political leverage sharing similar concerns about public schools. I mean, it's one of those talking points that's so very obviously tailored to appeal to the lowest common denominator that I'm surprised you're even bringing this up.
politicallysavy;
It was indeed a good night for the Republican base, but it was also a very good night for Obama-Biden in reigniting the spark that just says, "Enough."
You just had your convention last week and you already need re-ignition?
Ha! It's over buddy.
Oz.
RepubliCon trickle down economics..no thanks. Didn't work the first two times and won;t the third time. The true sign of stupidity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result...that's what the RepubliCon economic policy in a nutshell.
politicallysavvy: Another donor. I hope at some point in the future Obama releases the numbers on how many people donated tonight.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_CandidateTaxPlans.pdf
Obama's real killer will be the payroll tax increase.
Why you ask? Because it will give people the incentive to take non-cash compensation, like company cars, company-paid vacations, all sorts of other non-taxable crap so they do not have to pay that payroll tax.
Then, since their income is also lower, they pay less income tax as well.
Rich people did not get rich by being stupid. They will find legit ways to not pay that tax.
It will lower income tax receipts and distort the economy when people start hiding income by buying jewelry diamonds and weird real estate shelters.
This royally f-ed up the economy in the 1970s and Obama wants to do it all again.
Plus, with a global economy it will be even easier to hide income in legal ways.
Obama just does not seem to understand any of that.
If McCain wanted independents to vote for him, he would have told the far right fringe of his party to go to hell months ago, and most of those would have voted for him anyway.
God yes. McCain's judgment is as bad as the Bush Administration's.
Seriously, if I had been John McCain's campaign manager 2 years ago, I would have had him say "Look we have to cut our losses in Iraq. If we had done it as I would have done it, it would have been a success. I would have negotiated better with Turkey, gone in with twice as many troops, cut the war-profiteers out of the picture and given the Iraqis water, power and jobs within months ..."
That would have saved him from the near death experience in the polls from which he was only rescued by the epic incompetence of Giuliani, Romney and Thompson.
Then, with the nomination in the bag, I would have had him tell Dobson & Co. to go f*** themselves, come out as pro-choice and Libertarian while simultaneously making himself into the second coming of Ralph Nader with all the Abramoff dirt he's got squirreled away in his safe, and coast to Pennsylvania Ave. in the Straight Talk Express.
McCain has made endless monumental errors that we couldn't have thought of for him to make if we'd spent years trying. He's every bit as stupid, arrogant, and short-sighted as George W. Bush - maybe more - and that, perhaps, is an even more impressive achievement than winning the presidency.
Now - midpoint, ozzie et al, if you want to vote for that, more power to you. The '62 Mets also had their diehard fans, but at least the Mets had some personality.
it's one of those talking points that's so very obviously tailored to appeal to the lowest common denominator that I'm surprised you're even bringing this up.
Hence our cluster of trolls interest in it. To everyone else its old discarded news - what's annoying is all this chatter with the trolls about things that no longer matter.
Designed to make Uncle Sam richer.... Get real.
Too funny.
iorg34,
Facts are like Kryptonite to Superman for RepubliCons and lying is like breathing to them.
The most Conservative Democrat in the US Senate Ben Nelson of Nebraska who is pro Life and Pro Iraq War- Pro Bush Tax Cut has endorsed Barack Obama in the Primary and in the general election.
I was supported Joe in the CT Primary in 2006 and neutral in the General election. I had no problem when he endorsed McCain but once he went on the stage to smear Barack Obama and lied about Obama's record - Holy Joe Stopped being a Democrat.
AxmxZ,
nice try...
I don't know about you, but if someone were to say...punch my sister in the face. I wouldn't give them a second chance to be my "friend". They are a dirtbag to me always. Evidently Obama is more forgiving. Oh hell, let's forgive ALL our enemies from years past! Castro...he's really a nice guy if you get to know him. Bin Laden, he was just going through some tough times, that wasn't the REAL Osama...he's really a swell guy!
Be serious.
Was it a home run?
Only if she was swinging from her heels trying to win the Republican base.
If the target audience was independents and undecided voters, she Snydered out- it was a weak grounder to second and an easy throw to retire the batter at first base.
Switching to hockey terms, it was an attempt to one-time a shot from the point, but she broke her stick.
She came across to this Independent as mean, cynical, shallow; and less skilled a presenter than most major market TV news anchors. She gives a better speech than George W. Bush, but that's damning with faint praise indeed.
Maybe it was unfortunate to have her follow Rudy Giuliani. He came across as more of a jerk than he usually does, pissed off and bitter, and things just went downhill from there.
If the bar was set exceptionally low- and it seems to have been, she probably met expectations, but she definitely didn't come across as 'cuddly' or as the mythical compassionate conservative. Instead, in Canadian terms, she came across as Stephen Harper with out the policy chops or something less than Belinda Stronnach.
Geoff, enough with the bullshit.
Don't pull a Palin and play the victim after you started with your BS here.
And don't even start with the "centrist" crap. Yeah, centrist who calls people "lefties," "shrills" for disagreeing with you, and who started with the whole "haha, you are going to lose" bs.
Wow, AX, you are seriously misinformed.
There is a difference between making mistakes and apologizing for them, and making mistakes and continuing to assert you did the right thing.
Ayers killed people with bombs via his organization the Weathermen in the 60's and 70's and early 80's.
In the 2000's, he declared, he did not do enough and wished he set more bombs.
Obama has been linked to Ayers since at least 95, very explictly as outlined above. Obama should condemn him, distance himself from Ayers and apologize for associating with him.
I cannot support a candidate for President that thinks its okay to hang out with someone who revels in the fact that his organization killed Americans with bombs and is not sorry for those clear and unambigious mistakes.
Any clear thinking person would understand that.
iorg -
It says exactly what I told you.
They assume he cuts taxes AFTER he lets a tax cut expire.
It is BS. But you must like the taste.
Plus that org is in the tank for Obama...they are not bipartisan as they claim.
They are a front.
I go on the right wing blogs and call them right wing nutjobs. I run a centrist site.
You dont believe me, you can stick it where the sun doesnt shine.
Moderates are America, and ideologues risk the end of America.
midpointman: What an odd argument - Obama's tax hike on the rich is a bad idea because they will find ways around it. Too bad we can't apply this reasoning to all law-making. For instance, why punish selling hard drugs when the drug dealers usually get away with it anyway, and when they don't they just bribe officials to let them walk?
What I find interesting is that Ms. Palin identifies herself as a Christian, and yet what part of her speech resonates with Jesus' Sermon on the Mount?
I did see it as mean-spirited. How does the tone of her speech reflect Christian values? I just don't understand how on one hand someone can say that they follow Christ, and on the other hand, in a VERY public setting, eschew any semblance of Christian good will.
Does she really think that Jesus would be happy with that kind of tone? Or does she not know what the word "meek" means?
Xanthus
geoff-
You want to know why he may have used an Indonesian passport while traveling to Pakistan? Clearing up those "concerns" will help with "centrists" like yourself? How simple.
Several questions though:
Why does this matter? How does it affect you in the here and now? What possible affirmative answer on this issue could make you more likely to vote for him? Note that I have precluded as an answer, "A complete denial," as that has not sufficed in the past.
xanthus,
it wasn't mean. It just exposed Obama's weaknesses with striking precision. There was no namecalling or anything like that. She just used all his ridiculous over-the-top pomp and circumstance against him.
Funny, but none of the right-wing children who came out to cry tonight mentioned that every state attacked on 9/11 voted for John Kerry and will likely vote for the next President of the United States Barack Obama.
What a bunch of pathetic whiney losers conservatives are!
Again, its a amazing that anyone can complain about Obama's tax plan when Palin turned Alaska into a socialist state by taxing the oil companies and splitting the booty to individual citizens.
Or would that just be communism?
Mason, Obama has not commented directly on the issue.
It is a matter of transparency, plain and simple.
America must know if their President once claimed to be an Indonesian while traveling around the world. If he can explain why as im sure he can, then so be it.
No more lies and coverups.
Ben Smith had a different take on that focus group...
He says the speech worked;
"Her speech was well-written, and well delivered, cool and steady in a way that (I'm told) is working on TV as well as in the hall."
Worked on TV?
Somebody was fibbing to us...
Xanthus,
She is a Chrsitian in the sense that she can divide to gain power and impose her views on others.
She ran for Mayor and said, "elect the first Christian Mayor". Her opponent was Stein so it might be a jewish aname (actaully he was Lutheran) but she thought it might divide based in religion obviously.
The Iraq war "is God's will". She is a wingnut religious zealot.
Top that with teaching creatonism in school, prayer in public school, and attempts at library censorship.
Its too late to be blogging anyway, nite folks.
Peace.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-AiqGC0buo
classic!
if you haven't seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euu_DMhsXQo
hmmm, most on this site dont like the speach, but most on the right seem to like it. Isnt it karl rove 101 that says there is no middle in america. The right wants red meat too, sounds like she gave it to them. Lets not get caught in 2008 again.
Oz-
Re: CT voters
They can vote for Lieberman if the they want to
You are setting up Lieberman, VP candidate just 8 (8!) years ago to do a 'I didn't leave my party, my party left me' speech. And invite other Dems tired of the hatred and bigotry and sexism to come with him and join the Maverick and Palin in their push to the Whitehouse.
Ignoring the fact that he's already done that. I don't think that speech would be too effective for this cycle if the push comes AFTER the election. I mean he can't stand there and complain about what might happen, as that sets Harry Reid up to say something non-committal and let the story die.
Unless Karl Rove has invented a time machine.
midpointman - Your billionaire friends thank you and millions like you for financing their cabal with your years of hard work and gradually diminishing economic status.
What a bunch of crock from the cable news tonight. They've been really bullied by the McCain campaign today.
People want to argue that tonights speech was effective, go ahead. That it was an eloquent attack on Obama, be my guest. But the whole thing with "one of the best speeches ever" is really pushing it. Can't really think of any other speeches that were so on the attack that are recalled positively after a while.
geoff: Is that all you really want Obama to do - say that Ayers did a bad thing? Would that really make you copacetic with Obama's potential terroristhood?
Incidentally, Ayers never got convicted of killing anyone, nor was he actually referring to his violent activities when he said "we didn't do enough," so it's pretty obvious that you're repeating a talking point and not actually voicing any sort of personal concern. So I'm not really looking to convince you. I just like speaking to odd people. :)
America has jumped the shark.
God Damn America.
Enjoy your status as a 3rd world nation after once again voting against having an educated president.
Sarah Palin is a nasty lady with an enemies list. No WAY she should be given power.
It is a matter of transparency, plain and simple.
America must know if their President once claimed to be an Indonesian while traveling around the world. If he can explain why as im sure he can, then so be it.
No more lies and coverups.
Way to not answer the questions. Which were:
Why does this matter? How does it affect you in the here and now? What possible affirmative answer on this issue could make you more likely to vote for him? Note that I have precluded as an answer, "A complete denial," as that has not sufficed in the past.
The Intrade gap closed by 5 points and a lot of Obama sell orders are on the sheet...
Not a lot of buyers.
Jason -
I am no Bush lover, but he went to Yale and has a Harvard MBA.
His IQ was higher that John Kerry's in the service tests.
Obama is no Einstein. He published NOTHING in 12 years at U of C, which is pretty much UNHEARD OF.
I am not saying he is dumb, don't get me wrong. He is not some savant...
Im sure the selection process that Bush went through to get into harvard as a soon of a president was the same as the one a Black man from a single mother went through...
Listen, can we all agree here that we have our candidates and none of us is switching?
It would actually make for good conversation to discuss relevant points, as opposed to shouting talking points.
OTF, you're a religious bigot. She has taken none of the positions you suggest.
Xanthus is misguided, but with fair and admirable sentiments. Some Christians think being pacifist is Christ-like, but if Christians didn't defend themselves against oppressors, they would have quickly been exterminated at various times in history. Same is true today.
Several times in the Bible, Jesus reacted angrily to wrongdoing he saw. People need to be angry sometimes in standing up for what is right.
To try to twist their beliefs against them is cynical and crude.
Jason -
3.3% GDP growth and we are going to be a 3rd World Nation?
Who needs an education here?
Seriously.
You guys exaggerate so much that nobody believes you.
The Housing market is weak from a bubble...not the end of the world here folks, a lot of people got very rich from their homes.
I do not hear you happy that homes are now more affordable than before, do I?
More middle class families can actually buy a home now than before.
You hate that I guess.
I just finished watching the GOP evening on the repeat as I was busy earlier. I now know why I left the party after 30 years. If I had any lingering doubts, those have been thoroughly, permanently squashed.
I return to my favorite web site. Lo and behold, the sharks smelled blood and are here in droves. Just as I saw on the television, here is more proof that the only intelligence left in the GOP is the speech writers.
This country continues to be shredded for the sake of money and power, just as Karl Rove promised in 2000 "for as long as history allows".
The silly sharks smelled the blood and rush out to attack. Here they are, in their glory, the small minds spewing the small one-liners they learned.
I'll return another time. Nite all.
Tito - that was a great point. There were so many comments in the thread I jumped down near the bottom. Thanks for reiterating Kelly's idea. Bill Maher would be proud of her.
Rudy,
Look up her record and turn off Fox news echo chamber.
She is directly quotes as in favor teaching creatonism in school.
She is quoted "elect the first Christian Mayor of Wasilla." Funny only against I name Stein..but it was coincidence in your mind.
She was in favor of censorship of books at the publuc library.
She is quoted as "Iraq is a mission from God" Sounds a little like a crusade to some.
Bill Maher called her a "Stewardess"
Classy guy.
Credibility. Gone.
...actually it was gone.
He is a misogynist sycophant too, we have learned.
MPM-
3.3% is not sustainable in the current environment. It was spurred by a improved exports due to the weakened dollar (it's not as weak any more) and by consumer spending due to the tax rebates.
More middle class families can actually buy a home now than before.
If they can get a loan, this is true. While the banks are still writing off bad debt, that's harder to come by.
She may have made an understandable mistake on the ethnicity of the mayor.
None of the others have any backing that I've seen. She certainly hasn't supported any legislation that would do as you postulate.
You're just spouting more of the echo chamber drivel that's been flying around. You hear it so often, you start to believe it.
AP said she never pushed creationism as Governor.
I thought Obama was a Christian too?
You think Christian bashing will work?
That unites nobody. But I guess his talk of uniting people was just that, talk.
Bill Maher? People watch him?
You can get a loan right now...
More myths.
Interest rates are actually pretty good right now.
Rudy-
How does one mistake the ethnicity of the mayor in a town of 5000?
I thought that part of the charm (and danger) of small-town life was knowing everything about everybody in town.
Leading indicators are pointing up.
Oil is almost down to $100.
July home sales +3.1%.
We have not even had a recession, even though we should have.
I get the sense you are hoping for doom, hoping for suffering.
Is that what you mean by "Hope"?
You're right, Mason. If he went to her church, she'd probably know. Otherwise, how many Steins do you know who aren't Jews? Would be a rarity. Also quite possible that he was an ethnic Jew whose ancestors were persecuted and changed religion.
"You can get a loan right now...
More myths."
ROFLMAO Read the financials much? Check out the the market reads?
And on that GDP growth that impresses you so much...it is obvious to the most casual observer that you missed the Fed statement that immediately followed.
MPM-
Mortgage interest rates are still good for some customers, but they are largely unchanged from rates at this time last spring (when I bought - 30yr fixed 5.85%, prime + 3.5% 10% HELOC now frozen whatev), despite multiple cuts to the benchmark rates. Furthermore, banks are requiring more documentation. They also have higher income, down payment and existing debt standards. Prices may have fallen, but banks have tightened up lending practices.
Can't cherry-pick those numbers.
I am astonished at the level of hypocrisy coming out of the Republican McCain camp. Charges of sexism when they savaged Hillary for a decade. Charges of elitism when two of their speakers were CEOs. Watch the Daily Show, and you'll get a pretty good understanding.
Community organizers create social movements by building a base of concerned people, mobilizing these community members to act, and developing leadership from and relationships among the people involved.
-Not an easy job and NOT one to be mocked by a women who was running for Ms. Alaska when Obama was doing this.
I don't buy this "Sarah Palin is America's [new] sweetheart" stuff.
It is true we underestimated her "attack dog" capabilities. But when people see how close the "reform" Republican ticket is to Bush-Cheney, I do not think she will win many new votes.
She may be thinking for a run at the nomination in 2012. This outing (as long as she does not gaffe it up badly, which might happen) will do her no harm.
Next week, after the convention "bounces" are straightened out, it will be interesting to see where we stand. The Obama-Biden team need a counter-Palin strategy, no doubt it will emphasize how far from the mainstream the Republicans now are.
You're right, Mason. If he went to her church, she'd probably know. Otherwise, how many Steins do you know who aren't Jews? Would be a rarity. Also quite possible that he was an ethnic Jew whose ancestors were persecuted and changed religion.
Stein is a common German family name, not just a German-Jewish family name. It is a name of habitation. There are many villages in German with Stein in the name, and people from those villages went by that name.
She is being called America's [new] sweetheart?
I called several of my female friends. If Palin is a sweetheart, it is primarily among men!
Palin is exactly what the women in her home town said. She is clever, men ogle her, and she is exactly what her nickname Barracuda implies.
Didn't watch the speech, haven't read the comments, apart from Nate and Sean's analysis. Apparently she gave a partisan red meat speech for a partisan red meat crowd (including the conservatrolls on this site). Whoa! Shocker!
A couple of things worth considering...
1. Rudy 9iu11ani overran with his speech and the RNC had to ditch Palin's biographical video. HUGE MISTAKE. These videos, at least in the short-term, help to define the candidate and endear them to the watching audience. Given the negative headlines of the past few days, the last thing Palin needed was to re-introduce herself with a angry, nasty, partisan speech that'll mostly appeal to the base. Sweetie, the base were already in the tank for you.
2. At least politically, Palin is now fair game for Obama and Biden. Their line of attack wasn't clearly defined before tonight. She just opened herself up to multiple attacks, begining with her lying to a national audience regarding the "Bridge to Nowhere". But it's extremely important for the Obama camp to go full-on negative defining her as a corrupt, lying extreme right-wing nutball in the minds of the American people.
3. The MSM have made it clear they intend to once again pander to McCain. They'll likely drop all vetting of Palin from now to Election Day.
4. Colin Powell's endorsement of OBAMA is an absolute certainty now. I'm wondering if they should roll him out on Friday morning or next week. hmmm...?
Maybe it's because I live in Florida, about as far from Alaska as you can get... but after about 5 minutes her accent really grated on me and the other people in the room felt the same as I did.
Not to mention that she just seemed very mean and had an obnoxious sense of entitlement, all from someone no one has ever heard of until about 2 days ago.
My party's ticket had one last chance to win back my vote despite all the mistakes they've made these last 8 years. I'm not going to vote for McCain.
Here's one Republican vote for Bob Barr (or I may even write in Ron Paul).
I thought that line about change was affective until I realized it was ripped off from Braveheart:
"There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
Science Fiction meets reality, The Republicans have taken their story from the Terminator, Sarah Palin - aka Sarah Connor the fighting mum that saves humanity. Please Terminator come and take Sarah back to the future.
Wow, Republicans calling Palin "America's Sweetheart"? That sounds kind of sexist to me. She's not your girlfriend, she's a VP candidate. Try approaching politics with the head on your shoulders, not the head in your pants.
President Palin. President Palin. President Palin.
Gag me with a flag pin, somebody.
Ms. Palin came across as an extraordinarily unpleasant, sarcastic, bitter, nasty person. Her delivery was halting and unprofessional, she had no clue when to stop for applause, and the contents of her speech managed the feat off being both rote (the humdrum attacks on "tax & spend liberals" and the Obamas' patriotism) and shockingly inept (the astounding "community organizers" gaffe).
Ah yes, those nefarious community organizers. Now there's an offensive group that we can all freely tee off on and feel good about it in the process. Wow.
The speech almost certainly alienated, and perhaps even drove away for good, any independent voter who saw it.
All things considered, including context (Palin's need to establish herself), this was possibly one of the worst political speeches I have ever seen. As a bonus, McCain looked like the cantankerous grandpa out there afterwards among the ever-expanding Palin family.
Worst. Campaign. Ever.
midpointman: With Kerry he voted FOR the troops and then voted AGAINST them.
She advocated FOR the bridge, but then changed her mind when the cost doubled and was AGAINST it.
See the difference. Kerry ended his musings AGAINST funding our troops
She ended hers AGAINST the wasteful bridge.
Too complicated to understand? The rest of America seems to get it.
First, she kept all the money for the bridge. Your tax dollars at work. So much for her opposition to earmarks.
Second, you must know that Kerry's votes were on two separate bills. The one he voted for would have raised taxes on the wealthy (like myself and himself) to actually pay for the money that was being appropriated. When that didn't pass, he voted against the version that borrowed the money and increased the debt on all Americans.
So he voted for the version that would have required those of us who could afford it to actually support the troops. The Republican version basically violated their own principles of fiscal responsibility and further screwed up the budget, and didn't ask us to actually do anything to back up their empty "support the troops" mantra.
Kerry did a lousy job defending himself (one reason he lost), but if you and "America" knew the facts, maybe more people would have "gotten" it.
geoff: I am very concerned about his ties to Ayers.
Going to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport does not make Obama a terrorist, AX, it suggests he claimed indonesian citizenship at some point.
Again, if that's the worst Republicans can offer, Obama should be optimistic come November.
Ayers used to try to blow things up, back when Obama was 7 years old. McCain actually backed Bush in blowing things up over the past 7 years. I think the latter did more harm, no?
If the Ayers issue trumps economic policy, energy policy, foreign policy, wherever on stands on those issues...we do get the government we deserve in the end.
"AverageJane: That's great, honey. You know how worried I am about the pre-foreclosure notice we got last week. Did she say anything about ideas or programs to help people like us?"
She doesn't need to. Since when was the government supposed to protect people from making poor financial decisions? If you bought a house you couldn't afford with loan terms that you were stupid to accept explain to me exactly what the government should do to help you?
After watching the speech last night my wife said "No way, no how, No Palin!"
Am I the only person who thinks she sounds like an old-timey cartoon character of a prospector - like the voice you hear when you get onto Big Thunder Mountain at Disneyland? Add that nasal whine and I find her voice unlistenable. I tried to watch her speech but after fifteen minutes I just couldn't take it anymore.
Rhys... here is the Nevada focus group.
Jake Tapper has the Michigan one
MidPointMan said...
oz -
The have done the same for McCain.
Except, they forget that McCain managed to deliver some of the best speeches in 1996, 2000, and 2004.
When he comes, he comes to play.
Damn straight. The game ain't over until the wrinked old guy sings, to paraphrase Paris Hilton.
We'll know on Saturday how well they did. If the "bump" wasn't sufficient to get McCain ahead on Saturday, his odds of winning are pretty close to 0. The challening party can catch up- their convention was first, often (like Reagan) they're relatively new so by looking human in the debates they can pick up some undecideds. But most of the time, after the conventions people are set- not enough undecided voters to matter. Lloyd Bensten cleaned Dan Quayle's clock, and Quayle's team still won.
But McCain can certainly do it tonight. As you mention, he's done it before. Can't count them out yet.
I thought Sarah Palin came off as a bitter person, and who cares if she has 5 children with on pregnant and a son with a disability, thats not the issue, I also have 6 kids and one that is special needs . The fact is that she could be our President if something happens to McSame, and how much do we really know about her? Also I did not see much chemistry between her and mcsame.
Hilary Rosen just made the point that on 9/11 (while Bush was flying around the country) Dick Cheney was in charge, making decisions and giving orders to shoot down a plane loaded with Americans.
That point needs to be hammered a hundred times in coming days.
Also one question I really want somebody to ask the "straight talker":
"Senator McCain... do you feel that Governor Palin is an "agent of intolerance?"
Rudy said...
Ironic how any barbs tossed Obama's direction are "mean-spirited" but slurs and slander pointed at her are supposed to be fair game.
Actually, this is neither ironic nor true. Both Obama and Biden have DEFENDED Palin against media inquiries of her family situation. Since she is running for VP, it is perfectly acceptable for the media to question and investigate aspects of her professional life.
Even if it were true, it would be more hypocritical than ironic.
What IS ironic, though, is the fact that Palin sneeringly mocked Obama's experience as a community organizer in one of America's poorest urban neighborhoods when the convention theme of the previous night had been "Service."
Both ironic and disgusting, actually.
Funny, but none of the right-wing children who came out to cry tonight mentioned that every state attacked on 9/11 voted for John Kerry and will likely vote for the next President of the United States Barack Obama.
I'm a left-wing child, but also a DC area resident. So I know that Virginia, attacked on 9/11, did not vote for John Kerry, although I suppose Arlington County did.
As an Independent and a woman I have tried to keep an open mind. I am proud of my ability to vote based on the issues and not because I signed up for a particular team. I was NOT impressed with Governor Palin's speech. I was impressed with her ability to redirect and mislead. More and more I find myself asking when will our politicians stop underestimating the voting public?
More and more I find myself asking when will our politicians stop underestimating the voting public?
Maybe when the public stops falling for it.
I'd like to think we vote on issues. But we don't. If we were serious about issues, we'd be asking government to help us into more fuel efficient cars, not lower our gas prices.
We've reached a political impasse where too many people think all we have to do is elect the right folks and they'll solve our problems for us. But politicians can't make tough decisions unless enough of us are willing to make them. And since not enough of us are willing to take responsibility, politicians are afraid to ask us to do so. So all we get is pander after pander, and half-hearted proposals that don't require anything from us and that also won't really solve anything.
It's a bipartisan failure of leadership. But it's also a representative democracy. So the ultimate accountability rests with the people. When more of us are serious, our political discourse will be too. That's how democracy works.
She didn't write the freakin' speech for Christ's sake! Has everyone gone mad? She read it off of a teleprompter! Does this mean Billie Jean Bimbo from your local news station is the next Ronald Reagan as well? All this hooplah reveals just how much confidence Republicans really have in McCain. By the way Sarah, hows that "abstinence only" thing working out for you guys? Your future son-in-law must love it- suddenly he's a national TV star for knocking up your daughter! Nice message!!!
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