Twelve to one.
For every twelve voters who you talk to at their doors, one voter goes and votes who would not otherwise have voted. If you're asking: "how can I be most effective in helping my candidate win the election?" then an organizer's answer is going to be: knock on doors.
In a Yale study by Donald Green and Alan Gerber on the effects of doorknocking in local elections, they concluded that a conservative estimate was that "12 successful face-to-face contacts translated into one additional vote."
This figure, moreover, is a conservative estimate. When calculating the effects of actual treatment, we regarded any conversation with a member of the household as a "contact." Only about half of these conversations occurred directly with a subject in the treatment group; the remainder involved urging a housemate to vote and requesting that this message be passed along to the intended subject. Had we restricted the definition of contact to direct conversations with the subject, the apparent effects of canvassing would have been much greater.Although the study aimed at local elections, the principle is sound. Face-to-face contact is the single most important effort a volunteer can contribute to his or her candidate.
Let's do a little math. 12 face-to-face contacts is one new voter who would not have otherwise voted that you personally generated. You just doubled your own vote by speaking at the door to twelve voters. Of course, then it comes down to contact rate -- how often is the person home that you're trying to reach. A very low contact rate is probably 10%, and that happens. A very high contact rate can be 50%. Average is in the 25% ballpark. On average, you'd have to knock on 48 doors to generate 12 face-to-face contacts and one additional vote. 48 doors is a pretty standard, approximate walk list.
So if you go out one four-hour walk shift every weekend between now and the election, you've generated -- on average -- six extra votes from people who would not otherwise have voted for your candidate.
Does it sound paltry? Does it sound difficult? It's what campaigns do. In the aggregate, all that effort is transformative. It is what wins -- or fails to win elections. Organizers face 50 walk-ins a day asking for yard signs, people who politely make excuses as to why this is all they can do. Perhaps for a small handful of these people that is even true. Then the organizer grinds it out seeking people who will fill a shift to go knock on some doors, because every organizer knows 12-to-1.
In Grand Junction yesterday, we spent time tagging along with Obama volunteers doing just that. It was hard going, as many folks weren't home. But the doors were knocked anyway. Just past noon, a gathering of 15-20 volunteers collected in the office to first share their personal stories of why they'd been moved to get involved, and then action strategy unfolded. Morning canvassers returned with their walk sheets, volunteers made calls, and new canvassers went out for an early afternoon shift.
In Glenwood Springs up the road an hour or so, we saw the process repeat. A volunteer named Barclay Lottimer raved about the Obama organizer there, whose program in Garfield County had generated 3,000 knocks the previous weekend and 2,500 knocks so far this weekend when we stopped midday. Garfield had at least 1,000 new Democratic registrants. Summit County has flipped its registration edge from R to D based on the voter reg work spearheaded by Obama's organizers and volunteers. Many Colorado analysts expect Colorado Springs and Boulder to roughly cancel each other out, Denver and suburbs to trend toward Obama, but will McCain hold down Obama's Western Slope gains enough to keep Colorado in the red column?
A note about the McCain campaign. We are working as hard as we can to cover the Republican side of the ground game everywhere we go. We always go to their offices and look for volunteers, organizers, anyone who can tell us what is happening on the ground. But in Colorado on Saturday and Sunday, we found every office but the Cortez office closed. The Durango office was closed on Saturday. The Grand Junction office was closed on Sunday. In Glenwood Springs, Eagle, and Dillon -- where we stopped in at busy Obama offices -- McCain and/or Republican Party offices were either closed or nonexistent.
What we believe is happening here is that the McCain campaign is relying on its highly microtargeted phone calling to run its ground operation on the Western Slope, and that toward the end it will beef up its western ground staff in must-win Colorado. We also infer that the McCain camp is skeptical of Obama's ability to improve on past Democratic performance on the Western Slope, otherwise they'd be working harder. We expect to see more action today and tomorrow along the Front Range.
A couple key factors are at work in Colorado. One is that as the population has grown on the Western Slope, it has become slightly bluer. Witness Durango. Another is the economic impact of oil and natural gas development. When the oil shale industry went from boom to bust in the 70s, Grand Junction and surrounding towns went through a decades-long depression. Republicans have successfully captalized on demonizing environmentalists in this part of the world as the ones responsible for killing natural gas exploration jobs.
Of course, it's a bit more complex than that, given that the insistence on new exploration comes while large acerages of already-leased land goes undeveloped. This is a post, in the end, more about the ground game, and the overall point is that voters here are very sensitive to the economic fortunes of the oil and natural gas industry because that industry drives so many jobs.
Grand Junction will be seeing a visit from at least one if not both McCain and Palin in the near future. That visit has been announced but not definitively shceduled, and of course Barack Obama was here a week ago. Once McCain/Palin visit, one would think the local field office would be open on weekends after that point. John Kerry got crushed in Mesa County, losing 41,539 to 19,564. Obama will not win Mesa -- the largest Western Slope vote concentration -- but if he can use his ground operation to get that 22,000-vote margin down by a third to half, as well as pick up margins in all these surrounding counties where his ground operation is humming along, the big task is going to be motivating voters in Denver to stay in the inevitably huge lines on Election Day.
We're in the Colorado Springs/Denver/Boulder areas today and tomorrow, then a Wednesday race across Nebraska to Omaha and Des Moines. Thanks for the overwhelming response from organizers and their kind and grateful words after yesterday's yard signs post. Some of us really do get it.



802 comments
Sean,
I at least have some respect left for you. Nate has fallen off a cliff and is now a ridiculous joke. Thanks for your insights, because I have no use for anything Nate has to say anymore. He's lost all credibility in my book.
SUSA : Obama + 6 in VA
Obama - 51
McCain - 45
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=7bd0cddb-f8eb-4a1d-9cbd-3a481b87bf37
I was about to post that VA result. Good news.
ZOMG tell me that's not an outlier or has some dodgy internals.
If not, I would argue this is the best news since the discovery of sliced bread.
I really wish the SUSA polls had better regional breakdown in their crosstabs for VA. Putting Southwest in with the Valley is really stupid. If Southwest was separate it'd be a great indication of how the Hillary Democrats are breaking.
Thank you so much for these reports! It's very encouraging to hear that the Obama folks are doing so much footwork 24/7 whereas McCain people are relying on the time-tested strategies that can only generate as many voters as they had before but no more than that.
A 6 point lead in Virginia for Obama. Holy shit! It IS a landslide!
I think McCain is in real trouble now. He either has to dump Palin, or try some new strategy. Whatever he's doing ain't working...
You should wait for the Ras VA poll before you conclude it's a landslide. SUSA has always had Obama higher in Virginia than other polls.
liberal_defender - Go to RCP and look at their internals yourself. They seem okay, with some iffy points. 91% Dems break for Obama, 87% Reps for McCain, but McCain gets 14% of the AA vote - to quote Bill Maher, 'honky, please.'
Best part: Dem-Rep Party ID ratio was 38%-33% - same as Rasmussen's!
"Nate has fallen off a cliff and is now a ridiculous joke. Thanks for your insights, because I have no use for anything Nate has to say anymore. He's lost all credibility in my book."
Well, most of us appreciate the hard work Nate does, even if he doesn't always come up with numbers we agree with.
He's also to be commended for the dedication to free speech that compels him to allow assholes like you to hang around flaming him on his own blog.
Mule Rider is the funniest old man here
Early voting in Virginia started today.
Today's SUSA poll of Virginia has Obama ahead by 6 and above the 50% threshold.
Good news.
That's hardly a "dedication to free speech."
Letting an asshole like me rant on an obscure blog like this doesn't make heads or tails in the big scheme of things.
Yes but Obama has never had 51% of the vote in Virginia, that's true breakthrough. I'm also happy cause for the time being the Republitrolls are back hiding under their collective rock...I'm not including you as a troll VC.
Next your going to tell me, that not only should I go door to door, but that I should go door to door somewhere beyond my totally blue neighborhood. Like in that town, 20 miles away, where the cashier at Subway was so upset that my meal came to $6.66, that she gave me the employee discount to avoid the evil price.
the VA poll is great news, and i ultimately believe Obama will win VA.
I think VA is a stronger prospect than OHIO, and as strong as COLORADO for Obama victory.
But there are too many too close to call states on the map. I would feel alot better knowing PA, MI and WISCONSIN were safe.
axmxz said...
to quote Bill Maher, 'honky, please.'
Bill is a freak
its not tv. its HBO
LOL
Yes, but a victory in Virginia doesn't do you much good if you lose the rust belt. The only way to make the rust belt irrelevant is to pull of a VA/NC/FL sweep, which would be a herculean task.
"That's hardly a "dedication to free speech."
Letting an asshole like me rant on an obscure blog like this doesn't make heads or tails in the big scheme of things."
It's a matter of principle, and Nate is to be commended for it.
This also goes directly to the matters of 'respect' and 'credibility' that you raise. Nate has far more than you do -- in fact, it's not even close.
john david: Another very encouraging internal from the SUSA VA poll:
Could change mind: M 46% - O 35%
Mind made up: M 46% - O 53%
McCain's voters are far wobblier.
From now on, if I'm to be referred to as a "troll," call me an Independitroll.
By the way I think Ras with it's Republican lean will either have a tie in Virginia, or McCain ahead by a point.
I agree with VA Conservative: I would have a little more faith in the +6 number for VA in favor of Obama if it broke it down by region. IMO, Obama is getting huge numbers out of the north and performing above Kerry and Gore in the military southern part of the state. If McCain has less than a 10 point lead in western VA, I would be surprised.
The white collar DC burbs and the military vote in Hampton Roads will be the difference for Obama on Election Day if VA is to become a reality for Obama.
I am not completely under the belief that the sampling in GA is telling a complete story, either. No Barr, no crosstabs, and GA registration is up big time for the Democrats. I will say it now: McCain may win GA, but he will have to do it under 50%. Too many X factors here we cannot gauge within that sampling range.
Nate's a Liberal. He has never said he wasn't, he never said he was bi-partisan. If you believe he's cooking the numbers, then don't visit the site.
Its clear his numbers are true, even if the commentary is not unbiased. Rasmussen for example is a GOP evangelical, who regularly shows up on FOX and even worse, Hannity. He spouts gleefully when numbers are good for McCain, but this does not mean his numbers are cooked. You can be partisan and not let it effect the numbers.
Gallup prediction: O 48 (-1) M 46 (+1).
Thursday was a very good day for Obama, and it's about to drop off. Also, all his sparring with McCain about "fundamentals of the economy" has been half-forgotten over the weekend.
i'll call you a bitch...LOL
Sean -
Thanks for this pitch, you have convinced me. I have a few hours during the week when my 16-mo-old son isn't in day care. Instead of going to the park, I'm going to throw him in a backpack and knock on doors once a week from here to the election. Not as much time as I'd ideally like to log, but better than a yard sign.
Love your site.
Jen S. (Philly)
Thanks AxmxZ.
In regards to the ops post about knocking on doors.
I've heard knocking on doors can equate to %12 increase in voter turnout. This depends of course on what kind of ground game you have. Obama having a MASSIVE ground would lead me to believe he can not only achieve the %12 goal, but possibly surpass it.
I hope polling stations are ready for November 4th. This will be a historic voter turn out. Something I don't think anyone is anticipating.
When Obama said something is stirring out there, he wasn't kidding.
This also goes directly to the matters of 'respect' and 'credibility' that you raise. Nate has far more than you do -- in fact, it's not even close.
It's okay. I sleep pretty easy at night knowing I'm not a bitter partisan nerd who has done nothing more than popularize and exploit stepwise regression for polling analysis purposes...
...oh, and I'm a better poker player, too.
deadpixel: Actually, the SUSA poll has a 38%-33% Dem to Rep Party ID ratio - almost same exact one as Ras uses for his polls.
+6? as others have said before, if obama wins VA it will be a landslide.
as in previous posts, mccain needs to hold his own in CD10 and CD11. most likely he will lose CD11 by 4 points or more. if he wins CD 10 by that same amount or more, it will be essentially a wash and he will win VA. sure voter turnout in NoVa areas of Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax (partly in CD 11) counties will be most important to obama. but it is the percentage difference between CD 11 and CD 10 that i am interested in seeing. both are very simliar in demographics except that CD 11 tends to be more "urban" than CD 10 (thus the lean toward obama).
Figuring out party affiliation in Virginia is a fool's game. It's difficult, because there's no official registration by party. Officially, EVERYONE is an "independent" on paper.
Independebitch! /high fives Real Joe
Beautiful post.
" +6? as others have said before, if obama wins VA it will be a landslide."
No, it's quite possible he wins VA and loses. Never thought that would be possible, but he's overshooting a generic Democrat's numbers in VA and NC but underpreforming generic Dem numbers in the rust belt.
ARG Wisconsin
Obama 50
McCain 45
mule rider: And you're also a playboy billionaire astronaut with a supermodel girlfriend who lives for oral. =X-D
"It's okay. I sleep pretty easy at night knowing I'm not a bitter partisan nerd who has done nothing more than popularize and exploit stepwise regression for polling analysis purposes..."
Nate has done a tremendous job of providing useful analysis to thousands of people. He does this for free, and my guess -- as someone who runs sites myself -- is that the ad money he makes here barely covers his expenses, much less yielding him an income.
Even though you can argue about his methodology, he puts a lot of thought into his model, provides regular updates, and gives us all far better information to chew on than is available anywhere else.
What do YOU bring to the table? You jump into every thread acting like a 14-year-old with a chip on his shoulder.
If tearing down a good man doing his best helps you "sleep easy at night", then you've got some serious problems.
matt j. h. - VA bluer than WI? Now I've seen everything...
hey, this is really great stuff. Any chance you could augment the text with some maps, so those of us less familiar with the geography can track you better.
Charles, Mule Rider.
Shut up, get a room, and make out already.
ALERT ALERT ALERT
Virginia:SurveyUSA
McCain 45, Obama 51
SUSA 2004 poll 1 week before the 2004 election: Bush 51 Kerry 47////Actual Result (54-46%)
Obama lead significant!!!!
btw, Gallup out
O 48, M 44
Both lost a point.
I honestly prefer "independebitch" to "republitroll." So whatever suits you guys is fine with me.
If tearing down a good man doing his best helps you "sleep easy at night", then you've got some serious problems.
I agree I'm not really bringing "anything to the table." But he's putting himself on the chopping block by making all of this available. Hey, if he didn't want people with multitudes of opinions commenting on what he does, he should be a little more coy about his work.
I'm just waiting on the day of reckoning to see if it turns out anywhere remotely close to what he is saying. That'll be the test.
McCain is under 45% in Gallup. That's a huge warning sign this close to the election...
Ho ho ho - Obama's lead stays +4 on Gallup! Did NOT expect that! 48-44. Nice!
"He's lost all credibility in my book"
Mule Screwer:
Who gives a crap what some hillbilly like you has to say? Hey, tough guy, are we still gonna "square up" so I can kick your little lame ass? Come on over to NC...
I don't think Virginia is "bluer" than Wisconsin this time around. A poll or two may reflect that when compared with another set of polling, but I'd say Wisconsin is more reliably in the Dem column that Virginia at this point.
Virginia seems like a bellwether for national polling leading up to Election Day, actually.
Brian,
I can understand Charles' frustration with people like me. Like Nate, he is posting an open opinion about things on the widely available internet, for all the world to see.
And someone like me comes across as a "heckler in the crowd."
I can see the agitation...but it is also agitating to see nonsense after nonsense posted by Nate on some of the commeters on here without pointing out some of the ridiculousness of what's being said.
"matt j. h. - VA bluer than WI? Now I've seen everything..."
Polling in WI has been pretty piss poor, IMO. For example, the Milwaukee and Madison papers did polls for their particular counties (Milwaukee and Dane). They are two of the most populous in the state and the samples were 800 plus. Pretty reliable MOE. Obama was up 60-22 in Milwaukee Co. and 67-18 in Dane Co..
That makes up a decent chunk of the electorate (the capitol and largest city). Yet Obama is not out of the woods statewide even though he is running ahead of Gore and Kerry in the targeted polls?
Statewide, I would put Obama up by 8 to 10 points. The population centers in this progressive state are under-represented in national polling.
"I sleep pretty easy at night"
Bet that butt plug helps, huh?
people want to vote for a winner ultimately, with obama leading in the polls and picking up strong red states like VA, I think the rust belt will come around.
MN hasn't voted RED for decades, MI and WI are a bit more risky, but MN is safe
plus the more press about Obama performing well in the south, the more people will follow suit.
call it lemmings, but lemmings I like
:)
seer,
Let's meet in Knoxville. That's probably about halfway. Bring it bitch.
Seer, shut up. You're not helping anything.
I represented Summit County (along with Clear Creek, Gilpin, Northern Jefferson and southern Broomfield) in the Colorado House of Representatives.
A couple of thoughts ...
Door knocking absolutely turns 1:12voters in a local election but I very much doubt it is that effective in a Presidential by when done by surrogates.
The Democrats are concentrated in the hip uber rich towns, the GOPs are dispersed in more rural areas .. which advantages the Ds door knocking.
In Summit County, door walking is very hard to actually pull off. Large percentages of the homes are second or third houses and the residents come and go seasonally. The best bet for Obama is to try to use door knocking to register transient workers from everywhere in the USA that are in the County. But even this is tricky as come about now they are all rolling over from Summer people heading back out of state to the winter people yet to arrive.
As a result, I never walked Summit County. But in my last election (2000), I out polled both Bush and every other Republican in Summit.
Radio is extremely effective in the Mountains. The stations all have multiple repeaters to carry their signals from town to town. Local Cable is cheap and highly effective.
The Obama campaign weapon will be the massive underground youth population which lives in the groovy places in Colorado. These people have driver's licenses from everywhere, live college dorm like in over-stuffed homes and condos and are extremely transient ... but they are a young rich educated hip demographic that are ground zero of Obama Peeps. There are also a bunch of state universities/colleges in most of the Western Slope towns and no doubt Obama is organized heavily here. Your tour misses the place I see as the flipper - Pueblo County and the Old Hispanic South out through Pagosa.
VC,
win VA (due to NoVA) and losing rust belt, interesting scenario. i still dont buy it totally. i just dont see mccain winning MI, OH and PA. hard enough to do 2 of the 3 which he will need WITH VA to capture the college. but if mccain loses VA, he will need all 3 of those (not likely IMO).
That Virginia lead is only one poll. Take it easy guys.
Again, It'd be "fun" to see Obama win VA, NC, and FL while losing the rustbelt. The Pundits would be at a loss.
Paulson wants a blank check from congress with NO OVERSIGHT. I don't think that's gonna fly.
Apparently the CEO's of the corporations who are on the verge of bankruptcy won't go for a deal where their compensation is limited. Well I have two words for you
FUCK YOU
You'll take whatever we give you, you limy bastards.
The Obama campaign weapon will be the massive underground youth population which lives in the groovy places in Colorado.
Glenn - So basically, you're talking about leftover college crowd.
Also - "groovy places"? I think you just dated yourself. :)
voice of the midwest: Thing is, even if Obama *is* only up by 2 or 3 in WI, that's a hell of a lot better than either Kerry or Gore. They won by +0.4 and +0.2 respectively.
brian:
fuck you. you too, mule rider.
btw, thought you said "any time any place"? you're a pussy-boi. through and through.
Is the Diageo/Hotline tracking out today? They had it tight past few days?
With Gallup Obama always does better on weekdays than weekends because Evangelicals and Religious Conservatives are more likely to be at home with their family.
The more tech oriented, or younger voters, the more highly educated voters, those into art or arts, etc all are usually less likely to be available on the weekends.
Since the election is on a Tuesday (when people actually get a day off), the weekday results are actually a better indication of a more statistically valid sample, particularly for a national poll, with weightings across all 50 states, and across demographics.
scouser: Someone 'leaked' that Hotline has swung 4 points to Obama since yesterday, but no confirmation yet.
Mule Rider is really cute.
(sorry, I just love that photo :-)
seer this is the guy you'll be fighting.
http://api.seesmic.com/#/video/wiZcKsNmJI/watch
The SUSA poll in VA is great news but it's just one poll. Get a grip guys. That said, once we have Rasmussen's figures tonight, I expect the Repubs to start panicking. You only have to listento Steve Schmidt angry rantings today to know that the GOP internal polling must be horrible.
PPP about to drop a tasty poll on NM showing Obama with a good lead. They poll CO tomorrow.
I offered to meet in Knoxville to make it easy...but I can come knocking on NC's door if you'd like. I'll beat you to a pulp you ass maggot.
AXMXZ:
Thanks.
I've spent some time in Grand Junction. Colorado is a pretty industrial state, and Grand Junction is no exception. Reminded me of Billings, Montana.
Deadpixel,
Dude, you've posted that video like 67 times now. Get something new and/or original.
You're looking like a real schmuck.
"That said, once we have Rasmussen's figures tonight, I expect the Repubs to start panicking."
It's not time to panic unless 1)Obama opens up a significant lead in the rust belt states, or 2)opens up a significant lead in Florida.
As long as he has trouble in both places, there's still enough of a "firewall" in place.
lol...ok, pussy-boi. c'mon over to raleigh. nice this time of year. although not for you :(
Everyone please read this article by Sam Harris on Palin.
From the article:
"When asked why she is qualified to shoulder more responsibility than any person has held in human history, Palin cites her refusal to hesitate. 'You can't blink,' she told Gibson repeatedly, as though this were a primordial truth of wise governance."
...BTW, we're now at 24 days of media blackout on the basic qualifications of a person who could briefly ascend to the most weighty position on Planet Earth.
In other words---we are incredibly, incredibly fucked. As Andrew Sullivan wrote today, this is not a functioning democracy.
"Thing is, even if Obama *is* only up by 2 or 3 in WI, that's a hell of a lot better than either Kerry or Gore. They won by +0.4 and +0.2 respectively."
True axmxz and registration is through the roof in WI (additional 475K through 9/15 compared to 2004). Kerry pulled out of WI with a week to go, too. It will not be a drubbing, but the urban metrics in pollings are pointing toward making the state comfortably in the Obama category by mid-October. They have the money budgeted through the election in MN and WI, too.
Andy Sullivan and Sam Harris can can it. The country survived James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Warren Harding, etc. People much worse than Palin.
As hard as I might try, I could never look like as big a shmuck as you, Mule Rider.
Letting an asshole like me rant on an obscure blog like this doesn't make heads or tails in the big scheme of things.
Funny that you think 538 is an obscure blog. It's the goto place for projection and poll compilation numbers. I think you would be surprised at the traffic Nate gets. Most people just read and don't comment.
There's been a lot of comment on the great numbers from Virginia - but I find NC just as interesting. Obama is behind by only 3%, and Hagan is up by 5/ 6% in two different polls.
Blue paint is spreading down the right hand side of the map. (even south Carolina has a surprise in senate polling)
Man, that picture with the car's side mirror is smoking. I know people are always complaining about new features, but it would be nice to have a mechanism to purchase some of the photos we see displayed on this site. I'll support your journalism.
Virginia Conservative, you are my favorite McCain supporter on this site. But I have to respectfully disagree with you on this:
No, it's quite possible he wins VA and loses. Never thought that would be possible, but he's overshooting a generic Democrat's numbers in VA and NC but underpreforming generic Dem numbers in the rust belt.
He is overperforming for a national Democrat in the coastal South, but he is not underperforming in the Rust Belt. Evidence? Today's polls:
MN, Rasmussen
Obama 50, McCain 42 -- Obama +8%
Election 2004: Kerry +3%
WI, ARG
Obama 50, McCain 45 -- Obama +5%
Election 2004: Kerry <+1%
It doesn't look like underperforming to me.
This could be an election where things like ground game matter so much that certain states could go against national trends. For example, Obama is running 12 points ahead of Kerry in Iowa, 15-18 points ahead of Kerry in Indiana, at least 8 points ahead of Kerry in Virginia, etc. Why - its not due to Obama's national standing but rather his popularity in those states, which seems to go against demographic and national trends. States like OH, PA, and MI are more likely to follow national numbers because they have actual swing voters who are conflicted about the choice in this election. I would not be surprised to see VA and IN end up in Obama's column while McCain is able to take one more rust belt state than normal (PA looks to be vulnerable).
most weighty position on Planet Earth.
In other words---we are incredibly, incredibly fucked.
Thanks for the gross use of hyperbole to make your point. To that end, I'd say Palin is no better or worse than Obama, McCain, Biden, Kerry, Edwards, Bush, Gore, Clinton, Dole, Perot, Bush Sr., Quayle....see where I'm going with this....
We have far better leaders in this country than ALL of these d-bags.
most weighty position on Planet Earth.
In other words---we are incredibly, incredibly fucked.
Thanks for the gross use of hyperbole to make your point. To that end, I'd say Palin is no better or worse than Obama, McCain, Biden, Kerry, Edwards, Bush, Gore, Clinton, Dole, Perot, Bush Sr., Quayle....see where I'm going with this....
We have far better leaders in this country than ALL of these d-bags.
Mule is like the sports fan whose team doesn't make it to the playoffs. Instead of cheering for another team he cheers for the team he dislikes most to lose.
sugerfunk-
No, you're talking about the upper midwest (that's WI, MN, IA). The rust belt (or lower midwest) is MI, OH, and PA (though IL and IN are members too they aren't swing states).
Funny that you think 538 is an obscure blog. It's the goto place for projection and poll compilation numbers
Proof? Facts?
And as VC mentioned, we've survived some pretty big BOMBS in the presidency. As bad as Palin is, she's no worse than any of them.
virginia conservative objected:
"Andy Sullivan and Sam Harris can can it. The country survived James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Warren Harding, etc. People much worse than Palin."
None of them had a trigger to deploy weapon systems equivalent to hundreds of thousands of Hiroshimas.
None of them were tasked to navigate an inexorably globalizing world rife with religious fundamentalism.
None of them faced an impending environmental crisis that may bring up to a third of the world's population to the brink of famine within two decades.
Holy god, how can you take this so lightly?
Subterranean spare me the melodrama please.
Mule Rider = Republican troll and sore loser........
Sarah Palin is potentially the most dangerous person on the planet.
mule rider joked(?):
"To that end, I'd say Palin is no better or worse than Obama, McCain, Biden, Kerry, Edwards, Bush, Gore, Clinton, Dole, Perot, Bush Sr., Quayle....see where I'm going with this...."
WTF? Are you drunk? Palin stands out from that list like a ballerina in an NFL offensive line.
"Sarah Palin is potentially the most dangerous person on the planet."
O RLY? More than A-mad or Kim Jung Il? More than Putin? Get a life.
Holy Crap @ Hotline Poll:
O 47
M 42
Perish the thought about Palin being dropped. The numbers may force them to pull out the 9/11 type cards (fear, fear, fear), but they will not drop Palin.
Reagan said the 11th Commandment to Republicans was "Thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican". The 12th Commandment among today's GOP is "Thou shalt never, ever admit you are wrong".
Palin does need to speak, though. She is actually dragging the ticket down with no direct response to the criticism or analysis of her record. Pot shots to a controlled crowd gain nothing for you. She needs to speak on Sunday mornings sooner than later. She is dragging the ticket down at current.
VC,
She's on record as stating she'd go to war with Russia because of Georgia or the Ukraine.
None of them had a trigger to deploy weapon systems equivalent to hundreds of thousands of Hiroshimas.
None of them were tasked to navigate an inexorably globalizing world rife with religious fundamentalism.
None of them faced an impending environmental crisis that may bring up to a third of the world's population to the brink of famine within two decades.
That's funny...because in Buchanan's (and Johnson's) day, they didn't have these weapons you speak of, yet hundreds of thousands of people were killed or maimed in the Civil War.
Harding's presidency ACTUALLY DID lead into the greatest catastrophes in the modern world...the US and global depression and World War II.
Hmmmm...somebody's NOT paying attention.
"She's on record as stating she'd go to war with Russia because of Georgia or the Ukraine."
No, she said she'd go to war with Russia if they attacked a NATO member. Which has been the policy of every President since Harry Truman created NATO.
Obama and McCain lose a point apiece in Gallup?
My guess is that's because a lot of voters who have a problem with voting for a left/left-center black guy for president also don't particularly want to vote for John McCain. If McCain were a better candidate, he'd have convinced all those voters who are so unsure about Barack Obama.
nathan: Looks like the original Hotline leak was right. Still, I'd rather see it for myself before celebrating.
what state is the hotline poll for?
Mule Rider Poll (just in):
Obama: Kicking Ass
McCain: Screwed
The Hotline tracking poll has a relatviely small sample and does not weight by party ID so it is disposed to large swings.
I'll admit there might be the slightest possibility of a rust belt problem the moment Obama loses a single poll in Pennsylvania.
brooklyngay: It's a national tracking.
@Mule Rider:
Look at this page for a rough estimation of FiveThirtyEight's traffic:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/fivethirtyeight.com
Top 35,000 site worldwide... out of several billion.
All you 538 fans can back off. I was a Silver groupie way before it was cool, back when PECOTA was still a baby.
Earth to VC:
Our European allies will never admit Georgia or the Ukraine into NATO. Sister Sarah may have to find some other excuse to bring about Armageddon.
So 12 door knocks translate into one vote? What´s the rate for yard signs? ;-)
This post confirms that the McCain campaign relies on the structure they found, not on renewing it. This spells gloom for the future...
Colorado will experience a blue upswing in the final weeks. And I think the McCain campaign is getting outmaneuvred. They have a shot at Pennsylvania (and maybe New Hampshire), but they are losing on other fronts and if Indiana and Missouri have to be defended, too, Pennsylvania will slip out of reach.
"Again, It'd be "fun" to see Obama win VA, NC, and FL while losing the rustbelt. The Pundits would be at a loss."
Only the stupid ones. If this were to happen (and it won't) the reason will be obvious.
@Mule Rider
Make that: FiveThirtyEight.com is a top 15,000 site. The 35k number was just a 3 month average. Traffic is exponential.
OMG, if you guys can't understand the difference between (1) apocalyptic delusion+nuclear weapons and (2) corrupt incompetence+conventional weapons...I don't know. Fuck.
I amy have missed it, but has Obama indicated what position he is taking on the bailout?
O+8 in MN
O+2 in PA
M+3 in NC
M+1 in NV
"Only the stupid ones. If this were to happen (and it won't) the reason will be obvious."
What reason would you give? I'm curious.
"O RLY? More than A-mad or Kim Jung Il? More than Putin?"
Maybe not Putin, but the first two? Without a doubt Palin would be more dangerous.
They're driving Fiats; she'd be driving a Hummer.
Deadpixel said...
"A 6 point lead in Virginia for Obama. Holy shit! It IS a landslide!
I think McCain is in real trouble now. He either has to dump Palin, or try some new strategy. Whatever he's doing ain't working..."
Classic! Can we have a "Hall of Fame" posting section at the top of the board. I nominate this one to start.
How much of a multiplier do we apply up or down on that 12:1 ratio based on the attractiveness of the canvasser?
Racism.
petekent: He thinks it's a necessary evil, but quite an evil at this point. Wants a shitload of very sensible amendments.
So Palin would start doing illegal missile tests over Canada or Mexico? Because Kim Jung Il has been known to lob rockets over Japan.
Would Palin start to run international counterfitting and drug smuggling rings like Kim Jung Il?
1 in 12 in local elections where study group with the highest turnout was 43.3%.
Not comparable to Presidential races. Not to say that canvassing doesn't increase turnout, just that you need to hit a heck of a lot more doors. Door-to-door at the Presidential level is best served with voter registration drives.
Charles--
So three former Confederate states (one the capital, no less!) would be less racist than Pennsylvania and Michigan?
It is the actual work of having to defend Palin that is killing Republicans and McCain. A week or two ago, the cute wore off of Palin. She is coming off as empty in independent's eyes and women voters have fallen back to pre-convention numbers for Obama.
My advice to Schmidt and Co. at McCain HQ is to go all in on her. They will not drop her, so have her talk before the media starts ignoring her. At the moment, she is literally passing notes to the media from behind a curtain on the airplane when they have a question. Not good.
The debate will feature harder questions than normal as a result of the blackout they are engaged in with the media. They are merely establishing a Catch-22 by picking an unqualified candidate for VP.
Virginia Conservative, I couldn't be further apart from you politically, but when you are on your game talking about numbers I enjoy your posts. Thanks for your insight into Virginia. If the topic of Wisconsin ever comes up, I'm sure I can also provide some insight.
jason p are those polls confirmed?
Thanks Christopher. Wisconsin seems like one of those states we can always make close but never win in.
virginia conservative: Guess who else lives en masse in the former Confederate states? Hint: acronymizes into AA.
"So Palin would start doing illegal missile tests over Canada or Mexico? Because Kim Jung Il has been known to lob rockets over Japan."
She's capable of doing anything. And we aren't allowed to talk to her, are we?
She's a religious kook who's not very bright and would essentially be a puppet of her neocon advisors.
What's more dangerous: a tin pot dictator in a small country that's effectively under China's thumb, or commander of the largest military in the world, with the power to start a war with Iran, who thinks Israel can do whatever it wants and must never be questioned, and who has ZERO foreign policy experience?
"Would Palin start to run international counterfitting and drug smuggling rings like Kim Jung Il?"
She would if Lieberman told her to.
"So three former Confederate states (one the capital, no less!) would be less racist than Pennsylvania and Michigan?"
Because of their larger black populations, yes.
I live in Wisconsin, and I am familiar with our changing demographics and whatnot. We're NEVER going to be more than + or - 5%, but rest assured, Obama WILL win this state, but it won't be a landslide. McCain is going to get 45-49% of the vote, guaranteed, but he will not win here, it's impossible for McCain to get over 50% here. Obama has our electoral votes. The polls are really meaningless, they can be only +1% for Obama, that doesn't matter, it doesn't make this a close competitive state, it only makes us a close state.
The way the polls are shaping up today, if the rumor that Ras is showing a McCain lead in PA is true, it's going to look like an outlier.
"virginia conservative: Guess who else lives en masse in the former Confederate states? Hint: acronymizes into AA."
Mississippi has the highest percentage of blacks of any state in the Union, but no one is expecting that it might go blue. He has to win a good, more than decent sized chunk of white voters in NC and VA.
Update: Sarah Palin is potentially the most dangerous person in world history.
I just think it's amazing that a white war veteran can't make up any ground on a black dude from Chicago.
Of course, I'm also amazed that Obama isn't polling at 50% nationally every day, too.
The pull between voting based on race vs. voting based on issues continues in the Rust Belt.
Is it just me, or did Florida get a whole lot closer after the Obama campaign insisted they could win it?
But, as I always say, close isn't winning.
"Update: Sarah Palin is potentially the most dangerous person in world history."
Um, Joseph Stalin? Mao?
VC - it's a combination of factors. Obama has to win a percentage of white voters, but he needs a larger percentage in PA (which I do think will stay blue) than he does in VA.
Sarah Palin means nothing in and of herself. She has no significance at all, except for what her presence says about John McCain's judgement and what she does to his campaign.
The selection of Sarah Palin instantly neutralized at least 4 of his most potent weapons in this election:
1.) Obama's inexperience
2.) McCain's "different from Bush" mantle
3.) McCain's "moderate" persona
4.) McCain's claim to put "country first"
It was a base play that was always high risk. The fact they chose to take such a huge risk only proves that according to their internals the election was already lost.
And with every passing day it gets even more lost.
Thanks Overrated...
By the way is it me or does PeteKent sound rather subdued today?
PALIN BELIEVES THAT JESUS CHRIST, A QUASI-HISTORICAL JEWISH CARPENTER CIRCA 30C.E., WILL LITERALLY DESCEND FROM THE CLOUDS TO RESURRECT THE DEAD AFTER SEVEN GREAT TRIBULATIONS ARE USHERED IN BY OUTBREAK OF WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
SHE THINKS THE "END TIMES" ARE AN HISTORICAL INEVITABILITY, NOT A MASTURBATORY ESCHATOLOGICAL FAIRY TALE.
SHE IS INSANE.
Mule Rider, though I know they will fall on deaf ears since you are probably loudly humming "I'm a macho, macho man..." to yourself, I have a couple observations:
1) If you want any type of respect whatsoever regarding your first post about Nate being a ridiculous joke, please put that harsh statement into some form of context. Give a reason or two that you feel so strongly, otherwise your comment sounds off-base, ignorant, and that you are just some republihack like "Congratulations" who likes to blow off steam by typing one line idiotic rant posts.
2) Backing up your claims by getting into a pissing match with this Seer character is just bad judgment as well. Saying "I'll beat you to a pulp you ass maggot" doesn't do much for your credibility or your perceived level of intelligence. Just crude and uncalled for garbage.
3) Maybe it's just me, but I'm picturing you as a guy who drives an older Camaro with a urinating Calvin sticker relieving himself on a Ford logo on the back window. You've got a flat top, a big mustache, mirrored sunglasses, and one hell of a beat red face which just gets redder each time someone calls you out on something. I'm probably way off, but damnit, post something useful and intelligent to get that horrid picture out of my head.
People:
You guys talk about everything else except the financial markets!
This is key for the elections folks!
1. Oil shot UP over $10 in a few hrs to over $115
2. Dow is down over 250 points as of now.
3. Dollar is going down and commodities are going up.
These financial market crisis is DEFINITELY not done.
I believe this crisis will hit its peak in the next couple of weeks, just as the debates are on!
Economic data to come during this time will go from bad to worse and the markets will swoon!!
THIS will impact the elections more than anything else......and whenever McCain talks finance, financial markets, it is NOT his strong suit and it is transparent to all that McCain = BUSH= McCain!!
End of story!
Charles, I'd say it's more complicated than that. There is racism here, but it's of a different sort than the rust belt. A person who generally dislikes black people in rural Virginia will often say "well, except for my neighbor. And (x) football player". They could make the same "exception" for BHO.
I agree, Virgnia Conservative rules.
VC, when the revolution comes, I'll vouch for you to the cadres.
Mule Rider's going to be the first one up against the wall, though.
;-)
"Sarah Palin means nothing in and of herself."
I agree with most of your comments, fil, except for the very first one.
She *has* had an impact on the race. And there are still far too many people who are ignorant of what she is and still want to vote for her based on the mythology McCain's people have concocted.
inkstain have you seen any additional polls to substantiate it's "closeness"
Also, jason p is that PA poll reliable?
In Wisconsin, McCain will lock up the Fox River Valley and the northern woods, but he will not get any counties in the south, Republicans just cannot win the population centers south of Fond du Lac (Madison, Milwaukee, Waukesha, Racine, Kenosha, Janesville, Beloit). Also, Wisconsin has been having a large influx of AA voters from Chicago/Rockford moving into the southern counties. We're a lock for Obama, I'd wager final result will be 51-49.
"It was a base play that was always high risk. The fact they chose to take such a huge risk only proves that according to their internals the election was already lost.
And with every passing day it gets even more lost."
Ding. I'll keep saying it until it sinks in: 15 post-WWII elections, 13 wins for the leader at this stage.
quantman: Yeah, the markets are sagging now that the initial rush over the bailouts is over.
virginia conservative: Not all former Confederate states are created equal with regards to how the white vote breaks.
InkStain said...
How much of a multiplier do we apply up or down on that 12:1 ratio based on the attractiveness of the canvasser?
Yep, when I was field managing campaigns I always sent the young women door-to-door and put the men on the phones.
re: Florida closeness
M+2 in poll from St. Petersburg Times 14-17
M+1 in R2K poll 15-18
PALIN BELIEVES THAT JESUS CHRIST, A QUASI-HISTORICAL JEWISH CARPENTER CIRCA 30C.E., WILL LITERALLY DESCEND FROM THE CLOUDS TO RESURRECT THE DEAD AFTER SEVEN GREAT TRIBULATIONS ARE USHERED IN BY OUTBREAK OF WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
SHE THINKS THE "END TIMES" ARE AN HISTORICAL INEVITABILITY, NOT A MASTURBATORY ESCHATOLOGICAL FAIRY TALE.
SHE IS INSANE.
Well, over half of the electorate believes that, so there's a lot more "insanity" out there than just her.
PALIN BELIEVES THAT JESUS CHRIST, A QUASI-HISTORICAL JEWISH CARPENTER CIRCA 30C.E., WILL LITERALLY DESCEND FROM THE CLOUDS TO RESURRECT THE DEAD AFTER SEVEN GREAT TRIBULATIONS ARE USHERED IN BY OUTBREAK OF WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
SHE THINKS THE "END TIMES" ARE AN HISTORICAL INEVITABILITY, NOT A MASTURBATORY ESCHATOLOGICAL FAIRY TALE.
SHE IS INSANE.
Well, over half of the electorate believes that, so there's a lot more "insanity" out there than just her.
the numantine: And Obama has lots of young attractive canvassers, whereas McCain's are going to be, well, beyond their prime.
"Well, over half of the electorate believes that, so there's a lot more "insanity" out there than just her."
I call BS. Over half the electorate does not believe in the Pentecostal interpretation of Revelations.
mule rider: Yep, and it's ths electorate that has been essentially running the show since 1980. Time for them to go.
VA Conservative:
Is there any type of sizeable Hispanic vote in VA? If so, where is it concentrated?
Virginia Conservative, the Republican's problem in Wisconsin is that our two biggest population centers (Milwaukee and Madison) are both Democratic strongholds. While Republicans do VERY well in the Milwaukee suburbs and rural areas, there is no large offsetting population center. The best hope for the Republicans is to up the margins in the Fox Cities (Oshkosh, Appleton, and Green Bay). You could almost think of those as a gradient starting in deep red Fond Du Lac, to almost purple Green Bay. That why both McCain and Obama were in Green Bay. They both know Milwaukee and Madison are going for Obama. The state will really tip on those counties along the Winnebago.
IF Obama wins, THE SOUTH should secede.
They can have the oil, their IQ, their lack of tech centers, mediocre schools and colleges.
THE YOUNG DYNAMIC people (other than the Christian Missionary young) will leave the South.
Then in about 10 years, ALTERNATIVE energy will be here and Goodbye Texas and Louisiana economy.
So, they will then have that along with Missisippi, Alabama and Oklahoma etc.
That will be SWEET!!
Please LET the South secede!!!
PLEASE!!!
"Is there any type of sizeable Hispanic vote in VA? If so, where is it concentrated?"
There's a fair percentage of Hispanics in our population. Bigger than the rustbelt, smaller than the Southwest or Northeastern cities. Most of it is in FFX and Prince William Counties. However, the immigrants are extremely recent and many aren't citizens let alone politically active ones.
"Charles, I'd say it's more complicated than that. There is racism here, but it's of a different sort than the rust belt. A person who generally dislikes black people in rural Virginia will often say "well, except for my neighbor. And (x) football player". They could make the same "exception" for BHO."
This is why that Yahoo story making all the news is just BS. They aren't asking white dems about BHO, they are asking them about generic black people. Hell, even other black people would say 29% of black people complain too much, or that 11% are lazy. Shit, I think WHITE people are lazy and complain too much...I think pretty much everybody complains too much, WTF kind of poll is that? It's garbage.
Great post! I've been looking for data on this.
I just spent the weekend canvassing in Philly with *300 volunteers from Brooklyn.* Read that one baby: 300 volunteers just from Brooklyn hitting the streets of Philly!
I personally registered 12 new voters and had maybe 30 face-to-face contacts with solid discussions. I met several truly undecided folks - people who were agonizing over the choice. Unfortunately, most of them thought that Obama was going to raise their taxes (more lies from McCain: Country Last). When we gave them our flyers about Obama's tax plan, they became very interested.
So the question is: Will this be reflected in the election? If the RV numbers go up by a statistically significant amount, how much will that affect the vote-count on the day-of?
It was a great time. So, all you Obama-Biden peoples should get out there and hit the streets at least once before the election.
And McCainites, y'all gotta reckon with something: most of the white people who said that they were not for Barack were blatantly racist. How many times did people START with "It's not that I don't like Black people" or "I have Black friends, so it's not because Obama is black..." and so on. I don't know about you, but methinks these voters doth protest a bit too much.
Also, several people were under the false impression that Obama is Muslim - but, as we all know: HE'S NOT.
If McCain wins this election, I am sure that it would be due to electoral fraud, racism, and sleazoid lies about Obama.
Anyway, Obama folks: hit the streets and knock on some doors! Now we have some data on its effectiveness.
McCain folks - just sit back and relax. Keep eating those pretzels and remember to vote on Wednesday November 5! (Because of expected high turnout *Republicans vote on November 5 and Democrats on November 4*).
"Also, jason p is that PA poll reliable?"
Vanessa, yes it is a Mason-Dixon/NBC Poll that has O+2... I'll look for the link
shadowguidex-
That's true, but you gotta know black people personally before they are willing to make "exceptions" for lack of a better term. White people in VA and NC tend to have black neighbors or at least one black friend, while in central PA black people are rare. Get it?
InkStain,
Don't shoot the messenger. Let me dig up some facts, and I'll share.
I think the "Palin is the most dangerous person in world history" is just a frustrated response to teh "Obama is the Antichrist" meme some loons were putting out months ago.
Diageo confirmed 47-42 Obama. A 4 point swing from yesterday's +1 Obama. FTW.
Virginia Conservative --
Good point on the Rust Belt -- sorry I had confused those states with the upper Midwest. I agree that polls have been showing it relatively tight in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan compared to national numbers.
Even still:
Kerry won PA by 2.5% in 2004.
Obama's polling average is +3.2% and Nate is projceting an Obama +5.8% win.
Kerry won MI by 3.4% in 2004.
Obama's polling average is 3.2% (so ever-so-slightly less) but Nate is projecting an Obama +5.4% win there.
Bush won OH by 2.1% in 2004.
McCain's polling average is exactly the same -- 2.1% but Nate is projecting an Obama +1% win.
So I can see you making the case that Obama is overperforming everywhere else but keeping steady numbers in the Rust Belt, but he is not really underperforming.
Maybe we can shed some light on this in the next round of polling. FOX/Rasmussen battlegrounds anyone?
Diageo/Hotline poll out
O 47 and McCain 42
Need to crush McCain into the 30's folks!!
Hi -
I found this site a few weeks ago, and first, thank you Nate & Sean (& the commenters) for a place to have an interesting, educated, number-based look at this election.
I am excited about the polls showing Obama ahead but my excitement is tempered by two things...
1) If Obama can keep his answers tight during the debate this weekend.
2) Whenever it is the McCain-side 527s will bring up Rev. Wright again. I have to believe that as soon as they feel cornered, they'll start airing that 'God Damn America' clip. It's like their Ace-in-a-Hole. I fear that would create a more visceral reaction amongst swing voters than Obama's Ace which is McCain's being part of the Keating 5.
Any comments that could assuage me about this would be appreciated!!
How weird is it that I just learned about the Green/Gerber study in class today and then it's on here?
quantman, the South won't secede in the event of an Obama win... but the Republicans will move strongly toward being a southern regional party.
Unless, of course, they kick out the "God, Guns, Gays" crowd and return to their roots as a party of small government, state rights and fiscal conservatism.
But I don't see that happening anytime soon. The party has been way too corrupted (and co-opted) now even to purge itself. It may just have to disband and start over.
"This is why that Yahoo story making all the news is just BS. They aren't asking white dems about BHO, they are asking them about generic black people. Hell, even other black people would say 29% of black people complain too much, or that 11% are lazy. Shit, I think WHITE people are lazy and complain too much...I think pretty much everybody complains too much, WTF kind of poll is that? It's garbage."
Well put. One reason I resisted even discussing it at my blog -- I consider it little more than an AP "push poll". (Not really, but I think the point is to influence more than to inform.)
"Don't shoot the messenger. Let me dig up some facts, and I'll share."
You don't have any facts that say that 50% of the electorate supports the Pentecostal view of the End Times that was described in the post you were replying too.
Not even 50% of churches believe that specific interpretation.
Thanks, VA Con
Virginia fascinates me because I just cannot wrap my head around the changing demographics of the state that might turn it blue. Maybe it's because I am a black American myself, and so I have a very pre-conceived notion of VA, NC, SC.
Though I do have to admit that I have been to VA and SC and have not noticed any overt or coded racism when I was there. Beautiful country, too. Worth moving to if it becomes a permanent purple state--best of both worlds.
"Any comments that could assuage me about this would be appreciated!!"
The main one is: *yawn*.
Simply put, almost everyone who cares already knows about it. I do think it could help McCain a bit, but it's not going to cause a big swing.
Diageo confirmed +5 for Obama, 47-42. That makes today a win for Obama nationally.
Gallup: no change
Ras: no change
Battleground: +1 M
DKos: +1 M
Diageo Hotline: +4 O
re: twmook
With regards to 1, leaders at this point in the election are 13-2. The debates are much less influential than people think.
For 2, that's warmed-over old news and the whole electorate has already seen it.
"But I don't see that happening anytime soon. The party has been way too corrupted (and co-opted) now even to purge itself. It may just have to disband and start over."
I don't think I agree with this. If McCain and Palin go down in flames, I think there's going to be a rather strong push by real conservatives to try to retake the party. In fact, it's one of the reasons that the GOP needs to lose this election.
If the Democrat Party loses, good God, is there going to be a bloody fight within.
oh another thing:
in my canvassing, i found that a lot of the so-called "undecideds" (really? you're undecided?) are excited for the debates. they recited the actual date and time of the upcoming prez debate.
oh and one repub guy said that he hates sarah palin. said that he's not voting for obama b/c he's inexperienced, but is disgusted with mccain because of the palin pick.
"With regards to 1, leaders at this point in the election are 13-2."
You repeat this to the point where it sounds like a religious mantra. You are falling for a myth, because every election is different, and this one more than most. Plus many of those 13-2 leads were far more significant than Obama's is right now.
I do think he's likely to win, but you are way overstating matters.
The Diageo Hotline poll always strikes me as strange. You would think that Obama's much larger lead would be attributable to the economic news, especially with 55% of respondents in the poll saying the economy is the most important issue. Yet the same samples shows Obama lead McCain on "Best Job Handling the Economy" by only 44%-43%.
Weird.
"If the Democrat Party loses, good God, is there going to be a bloody fight within."
If you think Clinton supporters were bitter in the aftermath of this primary, wait till they find out she wouldn't get the next nomination either.
That's the same battleground polls that showed tie game in WI and MN last week.
boobot - Independents generally skew McCain. When the focus is on the economy, and the economy is an issue that splits independents, that's a big gain for Obama.
If Obama only loses independents by one point on election day, he wins 53+% of the vote.
I've said since May: Clinton fans better hope Obama wins this, because if he loses, she is going to get a lot of the blame for it.
Palin isn't insane, though I have yet to be convinced that she's really of presidential timber. However, you ARE completely insane if you honestly believe some of the things you're saying about her. Somehow, Sarah Palin is more of a religious fundamentalist than Torquemada?
During the Civil War, roughly 2% of the population of the United States was killed. So, let me get this straight. Sarah Palin being elected vice president will lead directly to over five million deaths? You REALLY think that Palin is going to establish an American Gulag system, a la Stalin? You're convinced that Palin is going to directly ask children to kill their parents in a nationwide cultural revolution, a la Mao?
Are you honestly listening to yourselves?
Jeremiah Wright is another weapon that Palin takes out of McCain's hands.
Her church is pretty scary, too. And it's also a shiny new thing, what with teh witch doctors, exorcisms and speaking in tongues, whereas Wright has become ho-hum.
Filistro:
I think it more likely that in the event of a loss, the Republican party will split into 2.
A moderate wing, which try to get independents and economic conservatives.
A second wing (i.e. a true 3rd party) which will be the social conservatives and the evangelicals.
However, I am Texas (married to a Republican, voted for Reagin second time, Bush Sr, Bush Jr 1st time) and in-law side mostly hard-core Republicans.
Trust me, many will want to secede.
Many will want to flee to other countries.
Some will try and hope that if Obama is elected, what Huckabee talked about (somethinng taking shots etc) at the NRA national meeting, will happen to Obama.
So, trust me, it will not go quietly.
Secession WILL surely be an alternative. It may get that much traction, BUT I will be praying for them to succeed. It will be the best thing to happen in this world!
Get rid of the math and science-wise dumb folks and the meanies once and for all!
VC -
"White people in VA and NC tend to have black neighbors or at least one black friend, while in central PA black people are rare."
I agree - but the reality in those areas of central PA Republicans are going to get 65% of the vote anyway. If McCain is to make inroads, it's out in the Pittsburgh suburbs. Central PA is Red and really there isn't much room to get redder.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/PA/P/00/index.html
"That's true, but you gotta know black people personally before they are willing to make "exceptions" for lack of a better term. White people in VA and NC tend to have black neighbors or at least one black friend, while in central PA black people are rare. Get it?"
True, but in Obama's case, he's been campaigning for 2 years, it's fairly evident that is isn't lazy and generally doesn't complain (at last no more than a generic politician). Moreover he isn't "violent", or ...I can't remember that 4th negative from the article. Pretty much none of those things apply to BHO. I myself come from a pretty darn racist family. My grandfather was in the KKK many years ago..but two generations removed, I'm not only voting for a black man for president but I'm 100% behind him. Now, don't get me wrong.. I wouldn't vote for Al Sharpton is HE was running, because he DOES fit the negative black politician sterotype. My city is very lopsidedly white in demographics, but nearly everyone I know is voting Obama, even a couple who had voted for Bush. My mother's church, a baptist church, is split only about 60/40 which means in Wisconsin, even in evangelical voters, Obama is doing well. Now obviously, I'm only using my own personal experiences, but in those experiences, McCain is underperforming from where Bush was at 4 years ago.
"My grandfather was in the KKK many years ago..but two generations removed"
True story: I am directly descended from Hiram Evans.
Mr. Charles M. Kozierok,
You write well. I like your blog. Mr Ed who shows up in the evenings is entertaining as well.
Whiskey Bottle,
That's great! If only we could have some kind of hour long TV spot that would debunk all these baseless rumors about Obama that EVERY SINGLE PERSON in America would sit down and watch. Maybe the Discovery Channel Mythbusters could do it. :) Just the basics... like:
No, he's not Muslim.
No, he was not sworn in using the Qu'ran.
No, his middle name doesn't mean he is the same person as the previous dictator in Iraq.
No, he is not going to raise income taxes on people who make under a quarter million dollars.
No, he's not going to hand out condoms to Kindergarteners.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
It's shocking to me how many people in America believe the opposites of so many of these statements. If every person was grounded in factual reality regarding this stuff, I don't think the election would be remotely close. Obama would win in a landslide. It's inspiring to me that despite how many racists there are in this country and despite how many ignorant people believe the complete lies, despite all of that... Obama is still polling ahead.
One of the biggest racists I ever knew was a Doug Wilder supporter.
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