“It was drizzling and mysterious at the beginning of our journey. I could see that it was all going to be one big saga of the mist. ‘Whooee!’ yelled Dean. ‘Here we go!’ And he hunched over the wheel and gunned her; he was back in his element, everybody could see that. We were all delighted, we all realized we were leaving confusion and nonsense behind and performing our one and noble function of the time, move. And we moved!”
– Jack Kerouac, “On the Road”
Five Thirty Eight is headed for the open road. We may have built a reputation for the numbers, but don’t be fooled: there is poetry in our souls. We are in the middle of an epic election, and for the final eight weeks we’ll be bringing you not only an intense daily polling menu, but also the story of the battleground states’ ground game.
You deserve that – you love this country just as much as we do, so consider it the least we could offer. At the end of this important day of remembrance, in the starry-dark Reno bare-mountain night, we’re officially posting notice of our series to come.
The story of the organizer and volunteer effort is one that needs to be told. It was much underreported in 2004 just how potently the Bush ground campaign organized. Say what you want about his governance – and we all have – but his competitive fire was lit for the election race. Republicans turned their voters out. Who’s got more heart this time? Missouri boys say: Show-Me.
This year, all available evidence suggests the Obama campaign is doing something unprecedented with its organizing efforts. Is it this: 29’2.5”?
Is it Mexico City, 1968? The story seems to be hiding in plain sight. The effort is more reported than the Bush 2004 effort, but it is still underreported. More significantly, it is under-contextualized. Pollsters have to guess about turnout, and often they revert to more conservative estimates because their past modeling of likely voters suggests that’s correct. Besides, if ground games are equally effective, they should cancel each other out. There's an understandable bias against believing something and modeling it until it is proven. It's why big enthusiasm and GOTV can make up ground against a fully accurate poll of voter preference.
Just what is organizing? How does it work? What are the nuts and bolts? And why is it something a site primarily (but not exclusively) known for its polling analysis would want to cover as closely as possible?
And is the McCain campaign being given short shrift? Is it being taken too lightly? And what kind of galvanizing effect did the Palin addition offer the Republican base? This is not a one-sided story.
And it all deserves to be told in real time. We're tempted to do a photo series of the floors of organizers’ rooms, but we think organizer moms and dads would freak out. There ain’t no lipstick on that pig, we can assure you (and once had our own crazy-stupid organizer floor mess).
Here is the tentative list of battleground areas we’re attempting to cover, in approximate order and subject to change: Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska’s 2d, Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida. We’d love to get to ‘em all but, baby, we’re just a man.
And like the Temptations, we ain’t too proud to beg. Organizers, volunteers, candidate supporters along the way with their hospitality, absolutely (and bipartisan), but especially information. We want your stories, your inside scoops, and frankly, we want you to teach us what’s going on in your area on the ground. How is the national campaign interacting with the local grassroots groups? How are the downballot candidates coordinating with the presidential race effort? What’s different about this year than past years? And nineteen other questions not listed here. Tell us, o ye hockey moms: pocket99s at gmail dot com.
Here’s a note to the staff organizers we’ll meet along the way, for both sides. What you do is epic. This is not something people get into for money. The hours are absurd. The health toll is often obscene. The number of demands coming at you from all directions is often overwhelming. And we are not out there to get you folks in trouble. Talking to the press at the field level is verboten, for message control. We know. We respect. There is a built-in limit to what can be reported, a lot of it will come from savvy and observant volunteers. Paid field staff cannot even comment on blogs, which is one great secret as to why the general public hears so little about organizing. Yet it is the foundation of our democracy – people sacrificing themselves for something they believe in, something for America, this country that we love. Even when we don’t share your political views, we respect your direct action.
Finally, an appeal to all Americans, regardless of voting age or partisan bent: do something tangible. It is now or never. Fifty-four days. Do something that will make the face you see in the mirror on November 5 proud. Push yourself. Suck it up. Work for it. Make a sacrifice you would not otherwise make. Leave the confusion and nonsense behind and perform your one and only noble function of the time – move.
And now… to the road!
We are back in our element. Everybody could see that.
9.12.2008
On the Road: Battleground States of America
by Sean Quinn @ 2:24 AM...see also battleground states, on the road, organizing
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668 comments
Have a great trip! Honestly, this site is the best coverage I've read of the election, on or offline -- and it just keeps getting better.
if you're in missouri you can stay at my place. haha.
Great Post. Headed to Virginia on October 1st, hope to run into you all there.
Wiley
Obama
Godspeed on your noble enterprise!
wish you a great journey. waiting eagerly for your trails.
I enjoy the coverage and it is one of the best..
All the best, Sean.
I see a book proposal in your future, or at least pocket 9's...
This is very exciting! Do make sure to cover both Republican and Democratic efforts, and please also make sure to post about impediments - legal and illegal - put in the way of efforts to get as many people registered, voting, and counted in elections as possible.
One for the road!
How does he (Lakoff) get to sound so right every time?
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1743
Dead on.
This is going to be soooo interesting, Sean. Thanks for taking it on. I do agree that the title of this column would make a fine title for your book-memoir.
Sounds like a great story to follow. Like you said, the story on both sides is under reported. Tackle the unknown.
And get a good camera so you can post pictures along the way. God knows we could use some photos here to balance out all the text, numbers, and raw data we pour over every day.
Thanks for all the good wishes.
I should also add that with sometimes hours of driving added to the daily task list of conversations and ground investigation, it's going to be a challenge to stay on top of every last local battleground story to be followed up on. Travel puts you in a bit of a bubble, even as it gives you local perspective. Things can slip through the cracks. Don't assume we've seen something. If you want something amplified and it's a real story, ship a link. Send a contact person's info, if possible. We'd rather get 20 emails with a story linked than miss something important.
I can't wait to read it!
This is definitely being under reported and, in my view, tremendously underestimated by pollsters and pundits.
Take Nevada. Nevada is roughly even right now. Do you have any idea how many fired up Californian Obama supporters there are within driving distance of Nevada? They're going to start pouring into the state in late October by the thousands--literally thousands. Imagine the effect that will have.
Think about it. The Nevada margin will end up being several points wider than is currently being estimated.
Sean, one story that's been discussed here is that the Republican Secretary of State in Colorado purged about 1/5 of the registered voters from the voter rolls, and that people from the Obama campaign have been making efforts to get them re-registered. See if you can find out more about how those re-registration efforts are going.
Sean,
I've been enlightened and fascinated by your other reports on the ground game, so I'm thrilled at your impending road trip. You pose some deep questions: what is polling, how does it work, etc. But what I want to know is this: why can't it be incorporated into Nate's model? I've brought this up in a couple of different threads, since it seems like it is a big variable that his model is missing. If the 538 regression can take into account fundraising, evangelicals, and other demographic info, why not some proxy measure of the respective ground games? You point out that it can change a race, and isn't the point of the model to project who is likely to win, no what the polls will say on the day of the election?
Perhaps I'm asking for too much. I'm very grateful for the model, the website, and the great writing. It just seems like an obvious gap, especially given the reporting that you've done on organizing. It would admittedly be hard to quantify, but I'm sure some reasonable measure could be found.
I totally agree, Sedi. GOTV efforts and voter suppression both need to be factored into a model that would be truly effective in predicting non-landslide election results.
(Sorry, that is, it's the new must read for anybody who is going to be doing political action in the next two months. "Could the Obama campaign be improved?"
Happy trails! This is gonna be interesting.
The ground game is an untold story - and Barack Obama's untold advantage - but be careful not to give too much strategy away.
One of the main reasons it is going to work is that John McCain's campaign doesn't take it seriously - the campaign will continue to put their money into commercials, which become less effective the more that there are (which is probably the opposite of the way a canvasser would work).
So lets acknowledge what's going on in the streets but don't let on how valuable it really is until after the election.
Michael,
Yes, voter suppression is likely an issue as well, but it would be much more difficult to quantify, I'd guess. You mentioned 1/5 of CO voters, but how many are being re-registered? At what rate? What percentage are Dems? GOP? It would be a nightmare to calculate, since in theory there should be zero voter suppression.
Organization should be measurable by some combination of funds devoted to it, number of volunteer, number of paid staff, and (if available) number of voters contacted by various methods.
John McCain for you:
“My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them.” & “I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion”
Sarah Palin for you:
"Mankind is like dogs, not gods - as long as you don't get mad they'll bite you - but stay mad and you'll never be bitten. Dogs don't respect humility and sorrow.” & “Boys and girls in America have such a sad time together; sophistication demands that they submit to sex immediately without proper preliminary talk. Not courting talk- real straight talk about souls, for life is holy and every moment is precious.”
Barack Obama for you:
“Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.”
Joe Biden for you:
"All our best men are laughed at in this nightmare land.”
Sean for you:
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” & “What is the feeling when you're driving away from people, and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? -it's the too huge world vaulting us, and it's good-bye. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies.”
For all of us:
“A pain stabbed my heart as it did every time I saw a girl/(boy) I loved who was going the opposite direction in this too-big world”
Nate: Can you touch on this?
One thing I've wondered is, are cellular phones called for polling? If so, where do they get the cel phone numbers? The reason I think this might make a difference is that young people often do not have land-lines. If polsters do not call cel numbers they're leaving out a huge demographic, namely all the young adults likely to vote for Obama.
Joe Benevides,
Actually, Nate has written about the cell phone issue a few times, including one post devoted entirely to it. Below the regions on the left are a bunch of keywords, and if you click on the "cellphones" one the relevant posts will be there.
Great post. However, I hope you can take some time away from your battleground bonanza to report from the non-battleground states, too.
The sad fact is that the vast majority of Americans live in states where our votes count for virtually nothing. Our candidates never visit us. Our voices are never heard. In the midst of this great democratic event we are almost totally invisible.
This outrageous injustice is probably the most ignored story in American politics... so I hope you can cover it as well. Happy travels!
SEAN,
I assume that FL will be your last stop on the trip. There should be plenty of stories in Central FL, which is where the real action is in this state.
The DEM/Obama ground game is up & running with new offices opening every week. Latest one was in Kissimmee on Wednesday, and Sanford just before that. There are still expanding the ground game daily & working on calls & registration & organizing. The online list doesn't even track them all, and more offices are shared with the local party efforts.
@ http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/floffices
Check out the local Obama/DEM Party office in a small coastal city near where I live called NEW SYMRNA BEACH. 'The Shark Bite Capitol of the World'...
NSB is a funky little beach/surf town of 20,000+ just south of Daytona Beach. The DEM office is on Canal Street near US1 in the old historic downtown district.
The local volunteers are jazzed, maybe more so now because of the McCain/Palin ticket. Also this is GOPer Tom Feeney's house district FL24 - and a real push is on here in the notorious Volusia County [2000 'RECOUNT'] to elect Suzanne Kosmas for Congress along with Obama for POTUS.
@ http://www.kosmasforcongress.com/
This area is the eastern most part of the I-4 Corridor [starting at Tampa Bay on the west] that constitutes the 'swing zone' that will decide who gets the FL EVs.
Here we think the DEMs have a reasonably good shot at both Obama & Kosmas winning this year IF the strong ground game can make the difference here in FL. That assumes the GOPer state pols do not get to impact the results again this year...
But in an attempt to manipulate the turnout, the conservatives have put a 'defense of marriage' ammendment [2] to the state constitution on the Novemeber ballot. It requires 60% to pass, and the recent polls showed only 55% support - which was a bit of a surprise since most people assume it will pass... But surprisingly Charlie Crist is quietly opposing the ammendment...
Check it out if you make it to this area of FL in October.
Sedi:
Yes, trying to measure the likely amount of effectiveness of voter suppression tactics is a nightmare for independent election results projectors, but measuring salient data such as voter suppression and GOTV efforts that pollsters are not capturing is what can eventually make this site such an out-of-the-box success, just as the newfangled baseball analysis is so much more accurate than the "conventional wisdom" was.
I'm sure that if the umpiring in baseball games could be clearly shown to be corrupted when certain teams played in certain cities, Nate and Sean would find some way to factor that in to their baseball analysis. Also, new stats (correct me if I'm wrong) like "runs created" measure some forms of production that were previously ignored in stats. So I think there's a precedent, though baseball is much less complicated to analyze than 50 state elections.
You guys keep getting better and better, a big hearty thanks from all of us. Nothing like being on the ground in the Purple States to really open up one's eyes. Pls. blog with your usual objectivity unblinkered by political affiliation, that's what provides us all with the most valuable information.
Besides reporting on GOTV and Voter Caging, suggestions on Voter Protection might be worth hearing. It's never too early to prepare for the Day of Reckoning.
Good luck and if you need a little something for the Road, let us know through your blog. I hope that you get to meet good people along the way.
Nate
You are assuming the swing states are not budging much because all the evelangicals are in Republican strongholds.
That may be only part of the truth.
Palin is apealing to low information voters. She is exciting - just as long as you haven't examined her record too carefully.
After constant bombardment from both campaigns the swing states don't contain many low information voters.
Those that remain have to be militantly low information. "I have already made up my mind so don't confuse me with the facts" people.
In short the battleground states are relativly locked. They will not shift as easily or as much as the National Polls.
Blame -
As odd as it seems to political junkies like us, there are an amazing number of under-informed voters. Some are intelligent, well-educated professionals who are too busy to do more than read an occasional headline or hear a few soundbites on the radio while driving to work.
Other under-informed genuinely do not like politics and refuse to pay attention. I encountered several the other day. They smiled and said they just pick names randomly on the ballot when they vote. *sigh*
In response to the OP: The level of dedication and interest that you have for this election and its inner workings really impresses me. In addition I respect your professional, non-partisan manner. I wish you the best of luck.
Enjoy the trip! You'll certainly get a better view of the country than most Americans.
And this is for the organizers in the field:
"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing but burn, burn, burn like fabulous roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww'" - Kerouac
Oh, and I just want to say that that photo of a long, straight dirt road at sundown (or sunup) is beautiful! Thanks, Sean.
Latest from Ohio:
Ballot snafu endangers votes
It sounds like this may affect Republicans more than Democrats, but I'm not sure. In any case, it is certainly a mess and an obstacle to people who will have to reapply for absentee ballots. When you get to Ohio, see how the Democratic Secretary of State's dealings with local authorities are affecting ground-level voter registration and GOTV efforts by both parties. And in view of what happened in 2004, see what you can find out about numbers of polling booths in precincts that could have heavy turnout.
Oh, another thing to check, particularly in Indiana, with its draconian voter ID law:
How are campaigns helping people to obtain government IDs that will allow them to vote? One thing I wonder about is, is it legal or fraudulent for a campaign to pay the fee for a non-driver ID for an indigent person who would otherwise be ineligible to vote?
One thing I wonder about is, is it legal or fraudulent for a campaign to pay the fee for a non-driver ID for an indigent person who would otherwise be ineligible to vote?
I think it would be illegal, and even if not it would be spun as vote buying. But, is there an activist organization that is out there doing it? If not, why aren't some of the activists out there taking care of it? Seems that would be perfectly legal and would not involve the campaign.
If there are organizations legally paying to get lawful government IDs so people can vote, I'd send money for their effort.
Re: the Ohio absentee application issue --
It really just sounds like a minor mistake by the McCain campaign (adding an un-needed checkbox), and it seems to only have affected a small percentage of the people who have returned them. The only people affected by this are those who did not check off the unnecessary extra box, which it sounds like most (2/3) did. To top that off, Jennifer Brunner seems to be on top of things in contacting those people who will need to fill a new one out.
It's a silly mistake to have made, but a correctable one.
Although, really, the problem with the Ohio absentee ballots is this (from linked article):
Brunner said state law does not require one standardized form to apply for an absentee ballot. While the Secretary of State prints its own application, the law says it need not be a particular form. A voter can merely send a letter with personal information that identifies him or her as a qualified elector to receive an absentee ballot, Brunner said.
Who doesn't have a standardized form for that? Stick them in libraries or post offices (where tax forms are located, ideally) and be done with it.
How could there be a law against helping people pay for I.D's
Voting is a right & perhaps a duty. It can't be limited to those who can pay.
Paying for I.D's would be under the same moral catagory as giving people transport to the polls, or helping registration. You just can't force them to vote Obama (or McCain) when they vote.
It is a shame politicians can't just buy votes with on the dot cash. They do it anyway with pandering promises but if they stood outside the polling stations with bundles of $100 bills there would be a better chance that the cash isn't fake. Lol.
I think there COULD be a law in Indiana against political campaigns paying for people's IDs. And let's be honest about it: Requiring a government-issued ID that you have to go to an office, spend time there, and pay a fee for is very clearly an effective though rough means test for voting.
And that's what our wonderful Supreme Court, in the same infinite wisdom that caused them to unconstitutionally meddle in vote-counting in a Presidential election, found Constitutional.
But larger questions of policy aside, campaign staff and volunteers on the ground have to work within the laws as they are (unless they're Republicans and have reason to believe they can get away with illegal practices like vote-caging on a monumental scale...)
I have a question for everyone here. Does anyone know of even one single example of President Bush referring to Senator Obama by name? I don't think I have ever heard the word "Obama" being uttered by President Bush even once. It seems quite a small thing to do if this is true. I'm interested to know if I am wrong on this.
He has mentioned Obama a few times (at the nomination, for example), but aren't we happier when Bush mentions McCain?
I think this is McCain's high point, the ABC interview is starting to expose how dangerous Palin is. The convention and Palin bounces will end. Thankfully the bounce for McCan't was mostly in the south (see a great analysis on www.electoral-vote.com).
"We were all delighted..."
Indeed, this is delightful news. I especially look forward to your coverage of Missouri, since I live in the region. But I second the commenter who cautioned not to give away any strategy the GOP hasn't already figured out. You can still give us a good picture of what is going on.
And if you're not going to give us photos of organizers' rooms, how about photos of campaign offices? It would be most interesting to compare the size and number of Obama's/Dem's offices to McCain's/GOP's offices.
The absentee ballot issues of McCain's campaign in Ohio is very telling about their ground game - a true amateur mistake. What toehr issues are they having? Any ealry stories of problems on either side in the ground game that have percolated into the MSM?
Agree, don't say anything that could help McCan't. In fact, use this to scare the hell out of them.
I am looking forward to your posts and analysis from the road. Be sure to stop in to the Obama office in Denver, at 1355 S. Colorado Blvd. It's buzzing with energy and activity. If you give us some notice we'll throw a party!!
Thanks for the info, brad.
Remeber all those cool youtube videos during the Clinton-Obama epic faceoff? I think it is time for people to get together and dtart making some cool homemade ads that expose McCain-Palin.
The latest smear is that Obama said he was a muslim "several times" and admitted his muslim faith.
Be ready to fight it, low info voters believe this crap.
Som egood youtube vids would be great.
The repub talking point is that ABC played gotcha in the Palin interview. ?These repubs are liars and have no pride.
I'll be interested in your perspective on how the Palin nomination brought instant ground game with effective organization to McCain through the evangelical churches around the country. No separation of church and politics there, I think.
If you need anything from Grand Rapids, MI. Let me know!
Yes, the whining has begun in earnest with respect to the Gibson interview. I keep having hope in the intelligence of Americans, but seeing so many people more upset about Gibson asking tough questions than about a future potential president being unable to answer them -- it's hard to keep the faith.
This country has become vapid, shallow and foolish.
The local volunteers are jazzed, maybe more so now because of the McCain/Palin ticket. Also this is GOPer Tom Feeney's house district FL24 - and a real push is on here in the notorious Volusia County [2000 'RECOUNT'] to elect Suzanne Kosmas for Congress along with Obama for POTUS.
DCM, I've been working District 24 (Winter Springs resident here)... I've got to say that we're cautiously optimistic.
I am just amazed at how different the US and UK. The michigan story would just be an end to the GOP campaign in the UK.
Also we saw the Palin advert done by the GOP a couple of days ago, are all your ads soft focus rubbish like that?
the standard of political discourse in the US is very sad, whoever wins. Y'all seem happier about a gaffe or crosstabs in polls than issues, positions and ability to lead. There seems to be a complete inability to see the imperfections of your candidate.
there seems to be no one here questioning the huge responsibility that someone is about to take on and wondering aloud if either candidate is ready for it.
Finally one thing, Palin said she didnt hesitate for a second to accept the VP. Isnt that precisely the problem?
You are in a war on 3 fronts, with a new cold war against Russia and half the Islamic world, the economy is struggling, you are facing a strategic threat from China and the world is looking at you as being a heartbeat [or more correctly the lack of a heartbeat] from being the leader of the free world..... and this didnt cause you pause for thought? very worrying.
She might have done ok on ABC but when in a summit with Putin or deciding whether to shoot down an airliner over the US is she going to do what Karl Rove tells her to say?
One thing to look for is GOP preparedness in supporting the presidential ticket. A colleague of mine is a very committed Republican here in VA. He told me that a month ago he was on the eastern shore at a farmer's market and the GOP booth there had no info or paraphernalia for the presidential race, only local races. Then a week or two later he was at a state fair in Lima, OH and found the same thing (in stark contrast to the Democratic booth). He and his wife were energized by the Palin pick, and right after her choice he went to his local GOP office her in the Shenandoah Valley and they also had no national stuff, but said they were getting some it soon. He stopped back a few days ago and still no McCain/Palin stuff.
I have no idea if my colleague's experience is typical, but I found it very odd. VA and OH are both swing states where one would expect local offices to be more keyed into the presidential race than in other states. Presumably this situation will change, but my colleague seemed a bit frustrated the situation.
Nate;
An idea for the projection graphics and data: Is it possible to put a version number or date related marker on them so it's obvious they have been updated? Maybe some sort of number that correlates to the "today's polls" post.
Oz.
Great idea, and good stuff.
How about a map that shows where you all are?
Like a vacation trip planner so we can follow?
I'm looking forward to all you guys post!
Thanks!
From Rasmussen..
Washington:
Obama 49
McCain 47
davelondon--
Unfortunately, you're 100% correct. The GOP "whatever it takes to win" strategy has dragged this entire country into a lower level of respect in the eyes of the world (and of many of its citizens). There's so much noise out there, it's impossible for any casual political follower to catch anything more than the stupid "lipstick on a pig"-type headlines that come out and are totally devoid of substance.
And now, when the GOP supporters say Palin actually did well in her interview yesterday (or, if she didn't, it's because she was treated in a sexist way).....it just lowers everything one more notch. I swear she could have started babbling at the "Bush doctrine" question and ended up saying she liked marshmellows, and the GOP would have called it a success.
Hey folks, see below. What do you think?
9/11 Forum Kicks off Post-Convention PeriodPosted in September 11th, 2008 | Editby J.G. Anderson in Daily NewsTonight in New York City, a new tone of civility was struck as Columbia University hosted John McCain and Barack Obama in the Nation of Service forum. Each candidate had a little less than an hour of questioning by a joint panel consisting of PBS’s Judy Woodriff and Time’s Richard Stengel. The forum was the culmination of the two-day ServiceNation Summit 2008, focusing on encouraging community service throughout the country and world. As noted by host Stengel, civic participation is at or near an all-time high in America and the prominence of tonight’s forum in the general election period underlies that strength. The takeaway from the forum overall is not so much any advantage gained by either candidate but instead a turning down of the volume of the campaign and demonstration of the likeability of each candidate.
The campaign has turned more heated in the days since the conventions, and tonight was a demonstration of the positive qualities of each candidate. McCain was direct and forceful; Obama was professorial and eloquent. Collectively, Obama and McCain entered tonight’s forum as unusually well liked, in historical standards, with both candidates drawing between 55-60 percent favorability ratings from the public. The George W. Bush elections, with Al Gore and John Kerry, featured more polarizing candidates with little appeal beyond a bare majority of Americans.
Both candidates were complimentary to each other on this anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, with McCain jokingly offering Obama as position in his cabinet as “Service Czar” and Obama later essentially returning the favor. Obama specifically concurred with McCain’s position several times, most clearly with their joint critique of claim that the Bush Administration did not stir up service but instead put forward the ”go shopping” message in the aftermath of 9/11.
As for substance, both candidates readily agreed to support bipartisan legislation soon to make its way through the Senate, the Hatch/Kennedy Bill, which substantially enlarges several government service groups like AmeriCorps. Obama was careful to stress military service, perhaps remembering his gaffe by omitting the mention of military service when giving the commencement address at Wesleyan University and listing ways for the new graduates to serve their country. McCain was questioned about Palin’s rough treatment of Obama’s community organizer days and seized the opportunity to praise community organizers and community service while defending his running mate’s right to defend herself from criticism of her small town mayor roots.
An interesting divergence in questioning occurred regarding the issue of “American Exceptionalism”. Briefly, American Exceptionalism is the concept that America is a unique country that organizes itself aroung certain values, like democracy, the rule of law, liberty, the common good, volunteerism, that are uncommon in other countries hence making America exceptional. Woodruff pushed McCain hard on whether he thought his belief in American Exceptionalism meant that the U.S. is “better” than other countries - McCain adroitly continued to rely on the “unique” nature of America. Obama was let off somewhat easier, just affirmatively responding to whether be believed in American Exceptionalism. The interviewers may have let an opportunity slip here as Obama’s positions laid out in his Berlin Speech are in some respects philosophically at odds with the concept of American Exceptionalism, yet no followup questions ensued.
The kids at Columbia interviewed after the forum appeared pretty fired up about service, talking at length about signing up for foreign service and even supporting the return of ROTC to Columbia University’s campus. ROTC was banned from Columbia University in 1969 and has historically been a polarizing issue. Tonight, McCain and Obama both agreed that the university should accept ROTC back onto campus, underscoring a night filled with agreement on policy and pledges of bipartisan cooperation to augment service in America.
As for missteps, McCain made a mistake when explaining his respect for mayors. ”It’s easy for me to go to Washington and frankly, be somewhat divorced from the day-to-day challenges people have,” he said. Surely Obama will arrange an ad around those words. For Obama, a strong support of increasing the size of the military slipped out in the questioning, which is quite at odds with his stated positions regarding reducing specific weapons systems like missile defense and claims to be able to fund his domestic programs with the use of funds freed up by reduced military spending on Iraq. Obama may face questions in the coming days on this inconsistency. Another strange moment occurred after Stengel stated that that civic involvment was at an all time high in America and Obama went into a stump response about the need to restore American service to what it once was.
An interesting point of divergence emerged during the dueling set of similiar questions asked of each candidate. When questioned on the scope of the government’s role in spurring additional service, McCain highlighted his philosophical reluctance to be overly reliant on the government, reserving national disasters and national defense as the only sectors in which the government should be the primary actor. McCain stated several times that an over-involved government would risk taking the space of private volunteer efforts and possibly reduce volunteerism overall. Obama, on the other hand, clearly stated his preference for a primary government role in all service efforts and defended that role as critical to spurring additional national service.
In summarizing his support for a central government role in volunteerism and service, Obama stated that he “wanted to make government cool again”. For this observer, Obama’s statement was the highlight of the night and drew stark contrast to the very man that Obama had lunch with today - Bill Clinton. Indeed, it was Bill Clinton, in the 1996 State of the Union address, that stated ’[t]he era of big government is over’. Obama has made clear previously that he supports an expansion of the size and scope of the federal government, but tonight underlied his passionate belief in the ability of the government to solve the most pressing issues of the day, including the spurring of additional volunteerism in America.
Each of the candidates performed well and neither appeared to gain an advantage politically from the evening. The next few days will determine if the level of civility shown tonight will reduce the acrimony between the campaigns over the ongoing Palin attacks and counterattacks and the testy environment which accompanies a deadlocked race for the Presidency.
That was a weird release time for Rasmussen.
Tight Poll but I wouldn't sweat it - yet.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/washington/election_2008_washington_presidential_election
Is Sarah Palin making Washington state competitive?
That would be a cruel blow.
Rasmussen Washington
McCain 47
Obama 49
Obama will win in WA for Seattle, only for this.
That Washington poll is probably the one that makes me most nervous so far, but for the most part I remain unconcerned.
McCain's state numbers at the height of his bounce aren't conclusively in his favor, so any movement at all the other way puts Obama back in a clear victory mode.
Nate and Sean, You remind me of me. Get out there. See it feel it. I do that with wars from Viet Nam, Cambodia, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, and Iraq and Afghanistan. Always think I will set one out then fly, drive, or take a donkey into them. Go ! and write often. Please if you come to Colorado let me know. I can assure you that you have your own fan club in off the track Broomfield! We ain't Denver or Boulder or Colorado Springs. We are the part of the State that is Swing. Hope to see you ! Cher
It just gets better and better!
While you're out there, also ask about voter suppression and what the campaigns are doing to prevent or encourage it.
InkStain:
Perhaps this will concern you:
Rasmussen just flipped to show a statistically significant McCain lead, and his biggest lead ever in Ras.
49/46 with leaners, 48/45 without.
Is Ras still the best daily tracker and Gallup the outlier, or now are both Ras and Gallup outliers and only the Daily Ko's tracker is correct? :)
Really, really cool! You guys are the best and this site just gets better and better.
Best of luck on the road and I am thrilled about this new development.
Geoff, when i can see the Rasmussen tracking?
9:30 am it is released publically.
Also, at noon Ras has a Missouri poll coming out.
i love you guys.
For everyone that is thinking these Washington Polls are good news....or bad news....
Both washington polls released use a LIKELY VOTER model, which took Obama's lead from +10 (RV) to +2-4 (LV)
LV models favor Mccain.
Just a thought on Washington. The new poll by Rasmussen has Obama still up by 2, 49-47, but I am worried that he may have to waste resources locking up this state.
Rasmussen tracking release is 9:30 ET.
Washington going red? Please god, no. The vapid Sarah Palin, the one who makes Bush look intelligent, cannot be moving voters, can she?
The complete idiocy of the right - attacking ABC for relevant good questions, while rewarding Bill Oreilly for leading loaded questions is just stunning. The fact that Joe on CNBC was spouting this is just astounding.
I am losing faith, pray for the ground game...
WA is not going to red for Seattle, this is the reason.
Fred, I'm a premium user, the Ras daily is 49/46 with leaners, one point less for both without, in favor of McCain.
I doubt WA goes red, but I wonder what Ras's poll might indicate about the Gregoire-Rossi rematch? The one that showed McCain within 4 showed Rossi up by 1.
Then again, 2004 was a much stronger Republican year in terms of downticket races (as was 2002, which is one of the reasons Shaheen should probably beat Sununu this time.)
It seems that Sarah Palin has some appeal to the rural people in the northwest. Oregon, Washington and Montana are probably becoming brutal urban vs. rural-battlegrounds.
Fred: I hear you. It's tough to keep the faith these days when one realizes one shares a nation with millions of vapid morons. Check this out.
Obama was the world's biggest celebrity, but now his star is fading, unable to even hold onto the left coast.
Oregon is next, after Washington.
Red Coast!
Hey Charles,
Take a read and tell me how biased I am :)
http://centristnet.com/2008/09/11/911-forum-kicks-off-post-convention-period/
The vapid Sarah Palin, the one who makes Bush look intelligent
So apparently the anti-conservative hate is only going to increase. Lovely.
@NATE
>>>>Yet it is the foundation of our democracy – people sacrificing themselves for something they believe in, something for America, this country that we love. Even when we don’t share your political views, we respect your direct action.
Finally, an appeal to all Americans, regardless of voting age or partisan bent: do something tangible. <<<<<
You are a true American. I also want every American to get involved and vote -- regardless of the outcome. I do not question anyones reasons on why they vote for Obama or McCain.
I volunteer for the McCain GOTV. To cop a phrase, I would rather lose an election than suppress the votes of my opponent's supporters.
I would be curious to see a new Oregon poll. Seems like it would be friendlier to McCain than Washington.
Although Romney as veep might have played better there, considering how well he polled there last winter.
Here here FLA GOP.
I want to see a poll form MN.
LOL from.
Rasmussen
National
McCain 49
Obama 46
"Perhaps this will concern you: "
A bit, but I still think Obama at 47% on the markets is a huge, huge steal.
The most important part of the McCain surge to up 3 in Rasmussen is that the party id weighting still reflects the three month average through 8/31, not the post GOP convention environment.
Anybody know what polls are coming out today?
"Obama was the world's biggest celebrity, but now his star is fading, unable to even hold onto the left coast."
Wouldn't that make a lot more sense if the poll had actually shown him losing?
"So apparently the anti-conservative hate is only going to increase. Lovely."
It should. Sarah Palin is a dangerous embarrassment and McCain has proven that he left his honor behind many years ago.
Obama won't say it, but more regular people will.
Have a great one! Can't wait to read more!
Obama's star is fading, and all he can do is make sexist remarks at Sarah Palin in a sheer state of panic.
How will it feel to wake up on November 5th finding that not only did The One lose, but that Washington and Oregon are red states, libs? =)
Only Missouri has been announced by Ras, scheduled for noon. However, also more states to be released at 5pm, but unidentified.
The liberal spin is all about NC and Indiana but Washington is very close - second poll in a week to suggest that fact. I imagine Oregon will fall in line with this as well considering that in the last non-incumbant election (2000)Gore won by .5%. Now Obama decides to shed any pretense of a post-partisan candidate by attacking McCain's inability to use a computer and his "out of touch" Washington ways. If Obots want to divide this country both on class and age you are welcome to go at it. Class warfare is traditional Dem territory, but criticizing McCain for his lack of computer knowledge is a big mistake when the 65+ crowd is a very dependable voting dynamic. Lastly, why all the emphasis on new voter turnout by the Dems? I would suggest it is because Obama's message in not working. If your message is not working, you better expand the electorate until you find enough people to make it work.
Greg, MO form Rasmussen.
I don´t know more.
Obama will win WA for Seattle and Oregon for Portland.
Obama will win only for the big cities.
Oregon should be interesting now.
I think we all can agree on that.
BTW Research 2000 somewhat confirms the validity of the Survey USA poll of NC (McCain +20) showing McCain with a 17 point lead.
Thanks Dario
McCain is now surging in Rasmussen.
McCain 49%
Obama 46%
This thing is slipping away very quickly.
"Finally, an appeal to all Americans, regardless of voting age or partisan bent: do something tangible. It is now or never. Fifty-four days. Do something that will make the face you see in the mirror on November 5 proud."
I hate to break it to you Nate, but there are a lot more important things in the world than freaking politics.
Maybe maybe that's what you meant?
"How will it feel to wake up on November 5th finding that not only did The One lose, but that Washington and Oregon are red states, libs? =)"
Very, very bad.
If the Democrats lose this election, I'll chalk it up to McCain being a great candidate.
If they get blown out, I'll chalk it up to America not being a country that remotely reflects my values.
You´re welcome.
The key move in Ras was more GOP loyalty and less Dem loyalty.
See internals below.
Obama McCain
Ballot 45% 48%
With Leaners 46% 49%
GOP Dem Oth
Obama 7% 82% 46%
McCain 91% 15% 45%
Men Women White Wom
Obama 41% 52% 46%
McCain 55% 44% 50%
Obama's new ad is a typographical train-wreck. Brush Script? Seriously?
I would not get too excited about a McCain surge yet. I think 9-11 favors the GOP as everyone focuses on the realities of a dangerous world. But the nastiness of the campaign is going to get worse, and I do not see how this helps Obama in any way.
Statistical estimate of last three days in Rasmussen, showing clear move to McCain. Swinegate had an effect apparently.
9/9/2008 (O/M)
47.4 47.4
9/10/2008
46 48.6
9/11/2008
44.6 51
Two things Palin is scary for Reps and Dems alike, she's entirely unqualified.
Second, in an electoral college tie I believe McCain is likely to win now. If he wins the popular all he'd need is a handful of Democrats in the HOuse to vote for him over Obama. That's very likely.
Eric:
It's not a straight vote in the House. He'd need to get 26 state delegations to vote for him. Pulling some dems might prevent Obama from getting 26 (ties wouldn't count), but it wouldn't get him to 26.
In that scenario, say hello to acting President Biden
I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm running low when it comes to Mr. Plouffe. The new ad where Obama is talking to the camera is nice, but non-morons already know where Obama stands and that McCain is a fake. The negative ad is awful -- embarrassingly bad.
I really had hoped for more of an impact move today. They either have something big they know about that we don't, or they are really losing it.
Thank goodness for Sarah Palin, she may be the only thing that saves the election for Obama.
Charles,
Prepared to admit that the folks like myself calling for the addition of a seasoned clintonite like Carville were correct now?
Thanks.
Apparently we can count Washington State as among the new battlegrounds. Obama's lead there has been cut to 2 from 12, as we see the "tree" meme which I described some time ago associated with Palin begin to show its effect.
Also, I think we are now seeing the crest of the wave in the state polls beginning to catch up to the national polls and the middling, though generally positive news for McCain, should morph into much stronger apparent support for the revitalized McCain-Palin ticket.
That Ras tracker has now moved from EVEN to McCain plus 3, after an especially good night of polling for the McMaverick.
Yesterday was the anniversary of 9/11 and I expected this bump.
I think after Palin's excellent media debut with Charlie Gibson, there is likely to be maintenance of the bounce. While Gibson was snarky and schoolmarmish and went for the gotcha on the "Bush Doctrine" (even David Gergen admitted no one uses that term), Palin was composed and articulate, while being confident.
Tonight the interview turns to domestic issues. More smooth sailing for Palin expected.
Mrs. Obama's absence from Ground Zero was amazing. How insenstive to the national mood can the Obama campaign be? Some claim she was tending to her kids. If that is the case she better have a real good reason for the next time she abandons them to get back on the trail. What a loser!
Wow, the question really is is Ras cooking the books based on repub numbers, or is there real movement to the GOP. I think it is a real move. In any case, very bad news for BO as this move is now real, and not just a bounce.
Now it is time to get worried, I told everyone to wait until late this week to see where we stood - well, we stand in a nation where crapola beats substance thus the repub move is real.
Expect them to get even uglier.
At least it will be a divided government if BO loses, right?
THE SURGE CONTINUES!! =)
"Prepared to admit that the folks like myself calling for the addition of a seasoned clintonite like Carville were correct now?"
No. That's not what they need to do. They won't win this by using those tactics.
They need to get back to what Obama does best: be a leader. He should have made a big speech like the race speech where he addressed some recent issues. He should be speaking before big crowds.
And they should be continuing to hammer McCain and Palin on their lies.
Carville is a piece of shit who won't even blame McCain for his own ads. I don't want him within a thousand miles of the Obama campaign.
Yup, hire Carville and set him loose.
Call Bill and get him to work (if you can trust him...)
Brad, all of this week the lefties on here were cheerleading Ras as the ultimate pollster.
Now that its turned McCain, its cooking its books?
Cmon man dont be so inconsistent and illogical just because the facts don't support your arguments anymore.
>>>>I hate to break it to you Nate, but there are a lot more important things in the world than freaking politics.<<<<
Maybe to you. I would put "Family" first, Country 2nd , and to me Country means politics.
@Inkstain
>>>>If they get blown out, I'll chalk it up to America not being a country that remotely reflects my values.>>>
On different sides of the fence, we would both like to find that out.
Nate;
I don't know if the timestamp was there before, but I just noticed one above list of states and below the Senate summary on the left.
If it's old, then my apologies for missing it. If it's new, then thanks - very helpful.
Oz.
"How insenstive to the national mood can the Obama campaign be? Some claim she was tending to her kids. If that is the case she better have a real good reason for the next time she abandons them to get back on the trail."
The nerve! Taking care of her kids?
Yeah, maybe Mrs. Obama won't end up being a grandma at 44 like Mrs. Palin.
"I think after Palin's excellent media debut with Charlie Gibson"
I must be completely out of touch with the average joe. I do have a couple grad degress, but how can that interview be seen as anything but a failure? She is an idiot spewing talking points. How dumb are we in this country?
InkStain said...
Eric:
It's not a straight vote in the House. He'd need to get 26 state delegations to vote for him. Pulling some dems might prevent Obama from getting 26 (ties wouldn't count), but it wouldn't get him to 26.
In that scenario, say hello to acting President Biden
The breakdown in the House is currently 26 states for Dems and 24 Reps. Some would be convinced to vote for the popular vote winner. I think that would be enough. You have to remember Dems are pragmatic and fair-minded, unlike Reps who are loyal and rabid. In the game off politics often the latter qualities prevail.
I think the Democrats should attack Palin some more. That keeps working well for them.
I know she's an easy target, I know she was a hideous choice, but attacking her gets no traction whatsoever, and I keep wondering how long it will take people to notice.
The question now becomes:
Can Obama hold onto his Senate seat in 2010?
"io, say hello to acting President Biden
The breakdown in the House is currently 26 states for Dems and 24 Reps. Some would be convinced to vote for the popular vote winner. I think that would be enough. You have to remember Dems are pragmatic and fair-minded, unlike Reps who are loyal and rabid. In the game off politics often the latter qualities prevail."
I believe it is 26-21 with four tied. Even assuming the GOP doesn't lose any in the fall election, he'd have to pick up five delegations to hit the number he needs. Not happening.
I never cheered Ras. I think Ras is biased, he has a house effect that is skewed repub, and his own analysis of his own polls (including headlines on his site) show real bias.
Attack the correct leftie, Rasmussen supporter I am not...
Depressing news out of the Ras daily tracker. This whole election has become really depressing.
Depressing news out of the Ras daily tracker. This whole election has become really depressing.
Sorry, I came up with 51 states. Not as bad as 57 , I guess...
I believe it is 26-21-3
The dems keep Michelle Obama out of the spot light for a reason. Common on...can you really see her as a First Lady in the traditional sense. It does not help that Cindy McCain often dresses like a Barbie Doll, but the hulking Michele Obama is not a comforting image to your typical Joe Six Pack American.
Wow! Koz is panicking. That must be good for McCain.
Good observation aboput Piggate. I think the constant repetition of the quote gave the story and the slur resonance. Chris Matthews has done more than most to keep repeating it. By the end of his braodcast the other night when I heard the quote again at the top of Gregory's show, I felt a visceral negative reaction to snide, country club boy, Obama.
Ysually, I have to reflect on Obama's policies to dislike him, but for many of us this is turning persoanl and we don't like the guy in the least. Nothing nice about him.
According to a focus group, Mexican immigrants would rather go to a grill out with McCain than Obama. Very telling.
bede-
It ain't over yet - but we need a better response than Kerry had in '04.
The number of republican lying emails filling "in" boxes right now is huge.
Americans are idiotic sheep...
LOL whenever the Democrat Party loses it always says 1)THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STUPID!!! and 2) THEY STOLE IT!
ROFL!
Will you move to Canada, Brad?
@Charles,
It reinforces my view that you are an Adult and can think for yourself.
>>>>No. That's not what they need to do. They won't win this by using those tactics.
They need to get back to what Obama does best: be a leader.<<<<
The people who think the Obama campaign can win by negative ads, or depending on media friends to attack are delusional. Obama was/is attractive for bringing a different kind of politics. If he turns into just another politician ...
"Will you move to Canada, Brad?"
I'm not Brad, but I was already working toward moving to Canada (aiming for a 2013 arrival date).
A McCain-Palin blowout victory with Republican gains in Congress would make me a lot less wistful about leaving.
The Illinois GOP bench is very thin...who can win statewide against Obama?
And 2010 is probably going to be a Democratic Senate year because the Republicans already caught every break in every close race they could in 2004, just as the reverse will probably apply in 2012.
Good, I hope all the other leftists join you so much so that the border gets clogged.
Greg-
You are funny! You really think a country that lets "he is a muslim" e-mails effect it's voting shows much intelligence? I sure don't. 50% of the folks are below average, that truism never seems to get through to the dems.
As for moving to Canada, just because I think we have an incredibly flawed election system does not make me want to leave. What Greg, you put party BEFORE country?
Geoff--Good point about the lefties hypocrasy and the Ras tracker. They can run but they can't hide. Gallup will be worse.
Koz:
Mrs. Obama has spent plenty of time on the trail, not tending to her kids. I don't fault her for it, but rather for her priorities. I bet if she could have gotten on The View again, it would have been "bye bye kiddies", but not for 9-11 and the solemn remembrance of those who perished as victims of Islamic extremism. Plus hubby was appearing at Columbia. Even Joe (the "nullity") Biden made it up there.
She really is shameful. I can't wait for the "whitey" tape to come out and shut her mouth for good!
At least Barack knows how to fake being a patriot!
Party before country, truly sad statement Gregory. Why don't you go to live in China or Russia where party and country are one in the same.
For a group of brilliantly smart guys, they certainly don't seem to have learned from prior election cycles.
I mean how about some advertisements that actually shake the Race up a little. Something on women's reproductive rights, women having to pay for rape kits, equal pay. Build a fucking case. It's so fucking frustrating to watch them become lukewarm.
Hey Brad how are you and all the other hippies going to get those Obama/Biden and "War is not the answer" stickers off your little toy priuses after the big defeat? LOL!
Elitism at its finest - "If Americans don't agree with my candidate/party they must be idiots or morons."
Again, I would not put too much faith in this one day 9/11 surge by McCain in the polls. It was bound to happen with the GOP emphasis on national security.
Dems should be more worried about multple states becoming competitive and Obama not even close to his fundraising goals. 5 million in FL to date and the state is slipping away in Sept. Sad testimony to Obama's message.
Any Libs outthere that can talk me down from believing we need a miracle to turn this tide?
I can only guess that the democrats are sitting on something big.
Appears safe to say that the McCain lead expansion in the Ras tracker is a post-bounce move.
The visceral racism that Michelle Obama inspires is truly putrid and sickening. Sarah Palin isn't one thousandth the woman that Michelle Obama is. I knew a lot of people that took 6 years to graduate from college (U of Idaho, that stalwart of academic excellence!)., Most of that had to do with too much beer funneling.
"Any Libs outthere that can talk me down from believing we need a miracle to turn this tide?"
Relax. It's September. We haven't even had the debates yet.
It is very possible that they are simply holding back on the good stuff. I'm sure McCain is also holding back on his best sleaze.
There's a long way to go.
Dick Morris says Democrat Party in Trouble.
LOL!
In light of Palin's chumminess with TransCanada (see the $500 million she handed them to build a pipeline), I'm curious how she is perceived in Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas, where the oil giant is planning another pipeline and has already initiated several eminent domain claims. I'd bet eminent domain is a pressing issue throughout the region but I'm not sure how it might play into this election cycle.
Overrate:
I like that "hulking Michele Obama". It's so true! She has an off-putting Amazon-like quality. iw ould be afraid to tussle with her.
She makes a more forceful looking Commander in Chief than that underwear model of a husband she has.
@eric,
these are the times that try (wo)men's souls.
I have seen this gradual decline all summer after taking attack after attack and responding with some bullshit puff ball ads and to this point I have just consoled myself by how panicked I was in the Primary when they wouldnt hit hard but in retrospect they were always in control.
FloridaGOP said -
"The people who think the Obama campaign can win by negative ads, or depending on media friends to attack are delusional. Obama was/is attractive for bringing a different kind of politics. If he turns into just another politician ..."
Yes, that is it in a nutshell.
Eric,
Sorry. All I can say is that we live in a pathetic country full of pathetic numbskulls. And that we'll probably have a stronger democratic congress, at least, to block anything the crazy lunatic ticket of Warmongering Grampa Simpson and the psychotic Jesusfreak Airhead Antisemite Hockey Mom can cook up.
Fuck America. Fuck the world. Fuck Jesus and his stupid lies. You freaks make me sick to my stomach.
Wow,
The Know-Nothing brigade is RAKING in the McCain Points today.
"Elitism at its finest - "If Americans don't agree with my candidate/party they must be idiots or morons.""
No, that's not why they are morons. But if you can't understand simple English, then you are.
Anyone who thinks Sarah Palin is ready to be president is a moron. Period. Full stop.
Anyone who thinks John McCain cares about anything but saying whatever he needs to in order to get elected is a moron. Period. Full stop.
Anyone who is willing to vote for McCain/Palin because of factors like "POW" or "hockey mom" or "mooseburgers" or "I'd like to have a beer with him" is a moron. Period. Full stop.
Elitism? I want elite leaders. You're a mediocritist.
Greg-
The Obama sticker will proudly stay on my Kansas City built Ford F150, thanks. Of course, in the end he will win...
Boy PeteKent, those Michelle Obama comments are treading very close to the line. Then again I've seen Repugs compare her to an ape on Tapper's blog.
Sickening.
Bede: Relax. This is far from over.
If you're angry, direct it properly. Go register to vote. Get friends to register. Make sure you show up to vote.
Volunteer at the local level. Donate time or money. Make phone calls.
Don't give in to despair.
Very true, Mr. Kent. She could post-up Obama down low on the BB court and take it to him like Ewing used to do in his Georgetown days.
"Any Libs outthere that can talk me down from believing we need a miracle to turn this tide?"
Yes. Around this time in 2004, Bush was tied in Maryland, up 14 in Wisconsin, leading in Maine, and within 4 in Illinois.
That said, I don't expect Obama to be able to gain in the debates the way Kerry did.
Well, if we're going to say that the bounce peaked yesterday, then we also have to say that this jump is a post-convention spike, and that the bounce won't be coming down anytime soon.
So bede, tell us how you really feel.
All we are saying is that if someone's vote changed based on fear, racism, or the crap that the repubs are spewing they are idiots.
If their vote changed based on issues, that is perfectly fine. But, I am sorry, what issues has McCain discussed during his bounce? Right, almost none because this election is "not about issues."
If you vote for personalities and not for issues you are pretty pathetic...
Vanessa said...
@eric,
these are the times that try (wo)men's souls.
I have seen this gradual decline all summer after taking attack after attack and responding with some bullshit puff ball ads and to this point I have just consoled myself by how panicked I was in the Primary when they wouldnt hit hard but in retrospect they were always in control.
I'd love to believe that that applies to the general election, but I don't think it does. The primaries were a numbers game. The numbers were always on Obama's side starting in South Carolina. The primaries were over by Super Tuesday, they had too big of a lead. This is a different game. Reagan overcame Carter in the debates and Kennedy overcame Nixon, but they were both within a point or 2. If we go into the first debate behind by 2 or more points, I don't think it's surmountable. That's two weeks.
"If you vote for personalities and not for issues you are pretty pathetic..."
Pathetic? No. More like...
Vapid.
Idiotic.
Irresponsible.
Traitorous.
Greg- you are irritating, and could do better than just parrot McCain's line about Obama's Star.
BUT you are absolutely right about the slimy, icky whiners who already are deciding that the election is lost because most "Americans are idiots."
To illustrate, several have pointed out that WA and OR are going to stay Blue in 08 due to Seattle and Oregon -- but this is the same in most states. It's not news. In CA, we are solidly Blue because of the cities. The interior is solid Red.
And this means that Blue folks don't know anything about Red folks. Red folks know all about Blue folks -- they come to the cities, they have relatives who live in the cities, they see the Blue stuff reflected on TV. But Blue folks live in bubbles, only ever seeing others like them.
And since Blue folks don't know about Red folks, they demonize them or say they're idiots.
It's disgusting to me, has been disgusting to me for decades. It's the reason I didn't pursue politics after majoring in poli sci, and it's the reason I stopped registering as a Democrat 8 years ago.
If Obama loses (which I don't think will happen), it will be the fault of the Obama campaign. End of story.
Those of you who think the average American is an idiot, and who THINK you are a Democrat, should read up on your party and what it represents.
53/48 for Cainer on intrade.
Charles, I agree that the debates and late sleaze from both sides will control.
Yes, Charles. Its the GOP's fault. We need elite leaders like Obama. Harvard lawyers as pols always warms my heart. Socrates was right...we need a philosopher king and Obama is The One.
@eric,
you missed my point. It was simply that they always seem to have more control than we perceive, regardless of the numbers. But then again this was the attitude right up until the ballots were cast in New Hampshire.
This is really awful that they wont hit back hard. IT'S LIKE WATCHING 2004 IN SLOW MOTION REPLAY. Fucking frustrating.
Glenn-in-Colorado,
Good post. I am not on your side politically but it seems a fair assessment of the race and is refreshingly free of BS.
To all of those people screeching about how stupid and vapid voters are: what are you going to do about it?
The McCain attack ad today rings really hollow. Everyone reporting on it agrees that the "good looking" comment was taken out of context and was not a dismissive remark. All she's done to this point is deliver the same speech, which she didn't write. They told her to trash Obama. And the has been lying about her record (which the mainstream media is finally starting to call her out on).
They tried to pin the admittedly outrageous smears against Palin on Obama. When that didn't stick, they tried to find smears that Obama's campaign made....and they're lacking. The McCain campaign is desperate to find another distraction (away from the atrocious Palin interview).
McCain's new ad, located here
McCain has thrown policy out the window, and is just going for narrative, narrative, narrative. All the quotes from the ad are taken out of context and are not what the democrats were even saying, but that does not matter.
Republicans win,democrats worry about little things called policy and facts, which nobody who's not decided cares about.
There's *got* to be some good money to be made flipping Obama at 48.
The second he gets some good news, the scared Dems will come rushing back and bump that percentage up, at least temporarily.
There's *got* to be some good money to be made flipping Obama at 48.
The second he gets some good news, the scared Dems will come rushing back and bump that percentage up, at least temporarily.
You all should check out RCP's national average. McCain's bounce was dissipating, but it has rebouned. Obama on the other hand is still in free fall - down a solid 5 points from his highs after convention.
The Washington number is interesting. SurveyUSA had it O+4 and this morning Ras confirms this move with O+2. Call it O+3, its still slightly behind the ave of 5recent polls in MI at O+2.7.
If WA is at O+3, the interesting story for me is where is OR? Especially with the giant M+39 number in ID. If we get a CA poll it will probably be in the O+7 range just outside of NJ and MN.
BUT ... As Nate mentioned yesterday, all this does is make O defend some ground and play defense for the first time in a state beyond MI. The likelihood of a M PV win but with an EV loss is rising significantly. Even at 3, WA still has ground to give, as moving each marginal point down from the regression target becomes increasingly difficult.
The bigger concern for the O's this morning is solving NM and the conflicting crosstabs we have in the CO and NM polls re Hispanics (breaking M in NM but holding O in CO).
For us M's, MI is still at -2.7 and that last 3 points is tough turf. Plus, at some point we're going to fade 2ish points from the convention bounce. And then we have a bunch of wobblies to worry about ... VA being #1, NV being #2. And of course the game is centered on CO which is drifting slightly M in Nate's model, but that's not verified by polling, which is still slightly advantage O.
Palin shut the door to a number of the myriad of paths O had three weeks ago, BUT O's structural advantage is still in place.
O Plan A - Kerry + IA + NM or NV +CO (273) with a A2 of Kerry +IA + NM + NV (269 with a win in Congress). As expected a few days ago NM's tipping % is spiking.
O Plan B - Kerry + IA + VA (272)
O Plan C - OH (various EV scenarios)
O Plan D - FL (various EV scenarios)
McCain has got two games:
Plan A - Defend OH + Flip MI/PA
Plan B - Block O's Plan A with a defense of CO, NM and NV
Emergent Plan C's could be a West Coast play for an OR/WA flip (but this is just emerging as a possibility)
The Old Plan D of making a move in WI or MN is fading.
McCain's toss at a NH flip also is fading not that is resulted in much tipping, such that without another NE state that game wasn't going anywhere. (Because flipping NH only takes O's Plan A2 down ( Kerry + IA + NM + NV, in other words a NH flip needs CO block).
I want to see an OR number and more Hispanic tabs ... and of course any new numbers out of CO, VA, NV, NM, MI, OH, PA specifically.
Cheers
"This is really awful that they wont hit back hard. IT'S LIKE WATCHING 2004 IN SLOW MOTION REPLAY. Fucking frustrating."
They are trying. They are throwing everything they've got, but it doesn't stick.
There is something about the nature of voters, especially Republican voters, that makes Republican attacks much more effective than Democratic attacks.
Gaaa...I don't like this Michele Obama bashing. I'm a huge McCain guy and it's plenty fair to bash her for her 'not proud' comments, but not because she stays home with her kids on the first week of school. Or because you think she looks like an Amazon - that's just as bad as those who call Cindy a Stepford Wife.
Has anyone noticed that the McCain ads are 50x better than Obama's. Nate talked about it the other day. Its like watching Universal Studios vs. your local cable news outlet.
Some have said that Rasmussen is biased, specifically pointing to his Party ID, It SEEMS logical, Interview 45k over 3 months asking about Party ID, and then use that in the next month's polling results.
Can someone who doe snot like it explain why it is unfair?
>>>>Our baseline targets are established based upon survey interviews with a sample of adults nationwide completed during the preceding three months (a total of 45,000 interviews). For September, the targets are 39.7% Democrat, 32.1% Republican, and 28.2% unaffiliated (see party trends and analysis). For the month of August, the targets were 40.6% Democrat, 31.6% Republican, and 27.8% unaffiliated.<<<<<
Is it just me or is Charles M. Kozierok a Keith Olbermann MSNBC clone?
that's the thing, it has nothing to do with the nature of voters, it has to do with the fact that democrats don't get dirty.
See Clinton won in 92 but he ran like a republican.
@inkstain:
They are trying. They are throwing everything they've got, but it doesn't stick.
I disagree. They are definitely not throwing everything they've got.
How about an ad linking McCain to the lying absentee ballots they just sent out in Ohio? Or Sarah Palin to the AIP?
Glenn-in-Colorado,
Do you sense this race will be close to tied to the end or does it feel like it could be "outside the MOE", where individual states don't matter so much (ie McCain wins the popular by 4 points).
"Is it just me or is Charles M. Kozierok a Keith Olbermann MSNBC clone?"
Thanks, I'm flattered. :)
"And since Blue folks don't know about Red folks, they demonize them or say they're idiots."
I live in MO, I know all about red folks. Thanks for the vapid ability to discrimnate, fellow blue- guy. What I said was that people who changed tickets do to Palin were idiots. I still think that. McCain has changed zero positions based on her choice thus anyone who moved did so for the wrong reason.
I would think a blue-guy could think. sorry for over-estimating you.
This election is far from over, but Axelrod needs to do alot more than he did against Clinton.
The turnaround in the race is because of substance, not just superior politicking. Most people don't LIKE far left policies. Dem presidential candidates from teh far left do not ever win.
They got over the novelty of Obama's race and now see vacant rhetoric instead of substantive principle.
Plus, the snarkiness against Palin has backfired big time. Big time. Self eveident in the Ras numbers showing Obama dropping off a cliff since Monday. The numbers aren't going to get any better with Michelle noticably snubbing the 9/11 ceremonies.
Im getting the sense that this becomes a McCain landslide. Obama just doesn't seem to know how to hit and hit first. He's been counterpunching all summer.
How about a fucking attack. Lower those tusks, cainer ain't that nimble.
Vanessa, you are 100% right.
That why Hillary was the right choice, Obama should have been VP. That ticket would have been invincible.
"How about an ad linking McCain to the lying absentee ballots they just sent out in Ohio? Or Sarah Palin to the AIP?"
The Democratic secretary of state in Ohio is getting Republican voters out? That'll play well.
Sarah Palin has deniability on the AIP, and if anything it strengthens her with the non-religious Republican base. How many failed attacks on Palin have to be followed by improved McCain polls before people accept that she's teflon?
justin32099 said...
The McCain attack ad today rings really hollow. Everyone reporting on it agrees that the "good looking" comment was taken out of context and was not a dismissive remark. All she's done to this point is deliver the same speech, which she didn't write. They told her to trash Obama. And the has been lying about her record (which the mainstream media is finally starting to call her out on).
The McCain camp lying more and more every day get all the media attention. It's a strategy. The mmedia doesn't call McCain on lying so the more stuff they make up, the more their ads get run, and the more news cycles McCain wins. Its not about telling the truth, its about winning.
Obama's new "Mean" ads are so laughable. It's like they are saying "Everyone is getting pretty mad about us not attacking, lets put something togeather and say were really going to get tough now"
I guess they know what they are doing. But it don't look like it.
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