My first reaction upon hearing Barack Obama's "lipstick on a pig" remark was that it was deliberate. Not a deliberate attempt to smear Sarah Palin per se, but a deliberate attempt to provoke exactly the sort of fanatical reaction that they have gotten from the Republicans. The McCain campaign has spent a week campaigning on big themes and big personalities, and gotten a fair amount of mileage out of it. This takes everyone back down a notch, back down to the tedium and banality of partisan politics. It would be wishful thinking to call it a momentum-changer, but it may by default be a momentum-stopper. The convention/Palinmania phase of the news cycle -- a phase the Republicans clearly thought they were winning -- is now over.
This is not to call this some sort of brilliant strategy; I have no idea how any of this is going to play out. But it may, in conjunction with the Obama campaign's pushback on the Bridge To Nowhere, be part of a developing Obama counter-narrative. That narrative might go something like this; imagine these words in Obama's voice:My opponent's chief strategest just said, "this campaign isn't about the issues." Well, I've got news for you, America. The Republican Party is desperate. They are going to do anything to try and hold onto their power, because they know the damage they've done to our country, and they don't know how to fix it. They know that people are out of work, and they don't know how to help them. They know that people are dying because they don't have health insurance, and they don't know to save them. They know that families are struggling to put food on the table, and they know don't know how to provide for them.
Okay, so I'm not Jon Favreau. But I think something along these lines would be toward the more effective end of Obama's potential post-convention messaging. And the "distractions, not solutions" meme is something Obama is going to have to trot out anyway once the 527's (including very probably the reincarnation of Jeremiah Wright) really begin to hit.
So they're going to try and distract you, America, because that's the only thing they know how to do. They're going to try and scare you. They're going to try and tell you stories, instead of offering solutions. And yes, folks -- these are the same people that have been lying to you for the last eight years -- and they're going to lie to you again.
9.10.2008
Lipstick
@ 3:17 PM
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Good God. Obama isn't attacking her family. The National Enquirer, a completely separate entity from Barack Obama, is telling the truth about her family.
While the angry left obsesses over Palin, McCain is walking into the White House through the back door.
"Truly Palin has saved the Republican Party."
It's going to be SO funny in a couple of weeks when these same people turn on Palin and start demanding that McCain throw her under the bus. LOL.
Matt, Clinton was a centrist, not a leftist. For this reason he won.
michael: Well, then it's a good thing the Obama campaign has nothing to do with the Enquirer, isn't it?
Okay, I'm as rabid an Obama supporter as they come, but attacking someone bound for Iraq for drug use is insane.
It's not just one thing. The Palin family is out of control. Go stoop to buying an Enquirer, like the other 3 million people do every week. The Palins are the Clampetts on drugs.
While the angry left obsesses over Palin, McCain is walking into the White House through the back door...hiding behind her skirt the whole way.
John McCain is a coward.
Charles,
Now I can at least respect that. I think we share that much in common, at least on opposite sides. So let me cut and paste and offer this much:
I've never been in this because I'm pro-McCain. I got into it because I was anti-liberals. And now that Obama has hypnotized the masses with loaded rhetoric and bullshit yet has been proven to be just another liberal piece of shit, I'm anti-Obama.
Fair enough?
Bill P: His point was simply that Cheney's own family was negatively affected by the evil of social conservatism.
And he made it in the most half-assed ham-fisted way possible. Plus, it's a stupid point to try and make. Who was he speaking to? There was no audience that would be receptive to that attack.
"Sarah Palin is an innocent wife and wonderful pro-life mother.
John Edwards was ambulance chasing wife-cheating pro abort scum.
That's the difference."
Do you REALLY want to condemn John Edwards (who isn't even part of this election) when you're (I presume) going to cast your vote for wife-cheating John McCain? Really?
Sorry, but this woman's family is NOT out of bounds. She has made them an issue in the campaign. In fact, the "supermommy" bullshit myth is about ALL she has going for her. And myths need to be torn down.
Why should Sarah Palin claim to govern me if she can't even govern her own family?
So now the wingnuts will be shocked and horrified by the Enquirer, which they just looooooooooved in July when it busted John Edwards. Um, "that dog won't hunt."
p.s.: Now that we've learned the Palin son was shooting OxyContin, we know why they named him Track.
Charles will soon be calling Palin "Madame Vice President".
And he made it in the most half-assed ham-fisted way possible. Plus, it's a stupid point to try and make. Who was he speaking to? There was no audience that would be receptive to that attack.
I completely agree. I knew at the moment he said it what would happen, even though I understood his point.
I do live in Ohio, the most liberal part of the state, the Mahoning Valley. It's a heavily union area, but it also has a lot of Reagan Democrats and social conservatives. The Dems won here anywhere from 62-70% the past 5 elections, some local commenators feel McCain could win this area, I agree. Hillary won here 68-32, and I have yet to find more HRC voters backing Obama as they are backing McCain.
Listening to the liberal talk radio host this afternoon, he also believes the Bradley Effect will cause Obama to lose, BIG. One caller said a McCain 40 state victory, and he said it's not that far from reality. Again there will be people going into the voting booth that will not vote for a Black guy. Sad to see that still. I campaigned locally for our black Independent mayor in Youngstown, and although he won, I heard a lot of people tell me they will not vote for a black guy.
OR-WA-MN-WI-MI-PA-NH-IA could flip Red. If polls are within 3-5 points in those states come election day, I do believe they are virtual toss ups.
From the CNN/Time poll write-up -
The polls yield some surprises in terms of geography. Although he's losing Michigan overall, McCain holds a surprisingly large lead in the suburbs of Detroit, where his margin is 55% to 37% — a city where the African-American Democratic Mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick, has pled guilty to two felony charges of obstruction of justice and plans to step down September 18.
If Obama loses the suburbs ringing Detroit by these numbers he will lose Michigan. This is an amazing stat. Kerry did much better in these areas to offset Bush's gains in other parts of the state. Don't let the +4 fool you. Michigan is far from blue with so many undecided voters in the state.
Mule rider: I really don't care what you think.
You want to vote for a man who tries to make people believe his opponent wants to teach kindergarteners about how to have sex? Go right ahead. The GOP has become the party of scum anyway.
Sorry, but this woman's family is NOT out of bounds. She has made them an issue in the campaign. In fact, the "supermommy" bullshit myth is about ALL she has going for her. And myths need to be torn down.
This is about the Enquirer, not anything that Obama campaign is doing. Trust me, by the middle of October, if not sooner, the Palin family will be a national joke.
Conservatives are sooooo intellectually dishonest it's pathetic. When Obama is up by four, it's a tossup. When McCain is up by four, it's a lock. Morons.
"Listening to the liberal talk radio host this afternoon, he also believes the Bradley Effect will cause Obama to lose, BIG. One caller said a McCain 40 state victory, and he said it's not that far from reality. Again there will be people going into the voting booth that will not vote for a Black guy. Sad to see that still. I campaigned locally for our black Independent mayor in Youngstown, and although he won, I heard a lot of people tell me they will not vote for a black guy."
I have no problem with that.
If we're a redneck nation and we want a redneck president and redneck vice-president, then let's just see how they do. In four years, if there's still anything left, maybe Americans will have learned a valuable lesson.
Obama is not getting his message out. The McCain camp wants to turn this into a mud throwing match and thats hard to deal with if you don't want to throw mud. Especially if the refs (The Media) would rather see the mud.
Right now, Obama is standing in front of the American people telling him how he's going to help them and he's getting pelted by mud in the process, and the spectators are too busy watching the Mud to notice the policy.
Its effective politics. It does no good for the good guys (Democrats) to whine and complain, we knew this was coming. This is Rove politics 101. And again, it's very effective. I'm not sure it moves voters, but it muddles the message of both sides. Obama must either get in the mud, or find a smart way of making his point.
The Obama campaign should put out a press release denouncing the "inappropriate and scurrilous rumors in the National Enquirer, now on sale at your local newsstand."
John King on CNN says that Obama is running far behind Kerry in areas Kerry won. This is cause for Democrats to be panicked.
Call me a moron all you want. Doesn't faze me whatsoever.
You believe what you want to believe. I'll believe what I want to believe.
McCain wins with 290 electoral votes.
"The Obama campaign should put out a press release denouncing the "inappropriate and scurrilous rumors in the National Enquirer, now on sale at your local newsstand.""
LOL. I like your style, charlie. ;)
My wife is going out and asked me if I need anything. I asked her to get me a copy. Her reply: "No way. You want that, you're buying it". LOL
Charles said:
You want to vote for a man who tries to make people believe his opponent wants to teach kindergarteners about how to have sex? Go right ahead. The GOP has become the party of scum anyway.
Dood... read some of what MR has said. McCain is ticking him off too, but on personality and style instead of issues.
Take a Chill pill.
Call me crazy, this is coming from a Bush voter that expected to wake up to see Kerry the next President in 2004.
You're crazy.
The fraud in your state in 2004
Seriously? Fraud in Ohio? I'm sure Gore won the election too. That's why we've had President Bush sitting in the White House for 8 years.
Dario, it's not that I don't agree with you, but I'm coming from a place where the goal of the election is to win and it doesn't really matter what the losers think happened.
Charles,
You obviously don't care what I think because you have ignored most of what I've written...only picking up on the parts where you can come back with something sarcastic, partisan, and biting.
I don't want to vote for McCain and very likely won't. I'm about 90% sure I'm staying home on election day. I just won't be voting for Obama. But don't say that I "want" to vote for McCain. That is false.
Matt: Obama's point is the issues on the one hand, and the mud itself on the other.
McCain can keep pelting the mud. Obama needs to keep saying, "hey look, my opponent doesn't want to help you, he just wants to sling mud. Isn't he childish? Now let's get back to those issues."
Same way you treat a child.
Sorry, I stole your thunder MR. :-P
Mason, Love your circular logic, if you make more money, just reinvest in the business and do not take any income home. The problem is infrastructure investments are not immediately tax deductible in the year made. They must be deducted through a depreciation schedule over a varying period of years. So if you make a huge infrastructure output in one year, you must pay taxes on that money over and above the infrastructure outlay.
As far as additional labor, you are assuming additional production labor is needed, and that there is sufficient demand for widgets to need additional labor, without flooding the market and driving down the price of a widget.
In addition to raising personal income tax on incomes over $250k, he also wants to raise capital gains taxes on corporations, by an even greater extent. So if a small business is an LLC type flow through disregarded entity, the owner pays the additional taxes. If the small business is a corporate business, the business pays the corporate gains at a higher rate, and then the individual pays the increased rate as well, creating the usual double taxation of closely owned corporate entities.
Not to mention payroll and self employment tax. Personal Self Employment tax (Social Security) was the first 12.4 percent of I believe $92,000 this year, matching the maximum SS pension benefit retrievable from the sytem. Now the small business owner pays their 12.4 percent on the first $92k, and then the tax picks up again at $250k making them pay the additional 12.4% of income on everything above that number. Making the Social Security Pension program into the largest Welfare program in world history.
It means the closely owned Corporate business owner will pay roughly 61% of each dollar of income generated over $250k to the federal government. So a take home of $250K is roughly $137,500 with the 45% output for taxes.
$300K yields roughly $157,000.
$350K yields $176,500.
$400k - $196,000. Finally below 50% ROI.
The Return on Investment becomes less and less for small business owners thereby creating less incentive for growth.
If I can make $140k take home working 40-50 hours a week and have a great family centered lifestyle, what is my incentive to invest greater time money and energy, say 60-80 hours a week jus to an extra $40-50k.
Punishing business men for working hard makes no sense at all.
MR has been clear in his disappointment with both candidates.
MR: Sorry, but I simply find your attempt to draw a parallel between the behavior of Obama and McCain utterly invalid. Do what you like.
Thanks, Mason.
I'm not sure what to make of this unholy alliance of late. If we keep this up, people might start thinking we're pals or something.
We might need a knock-down, dragout just to rekindle the rivalry.
Just kidding. Thanks again, though, for paying attention. You have always been deft at making very acute observations about what people are saying.
I dont know if Obama used the phrase deliberately but he was nonetheless very accurate.
Palin, is in reality an empty shell, I doubt very strongly she will do well in a Q&A session which tests her knowledge about significant world and national issues.
And for the record, McCain has been so fuzzy on many of his policy positions, I'm not so sure anymore how much I'd line up with him in that area.
Ok this really bothers me...MN is not going to flip. Aside from the fact that the DFL practically owns the state, and that there is a highly politicised senate battle which will bring both sides to the polls, MN is liberal. Despite the discrepencies of one or two districts (in the entire state), Minnesotans are incredibly progressive and proud of it. They are also incredibly against the war in Iraq. So exactly HOW would McCain possibly flip it?
Also before anyone starts using Pawlentys success last election, he won by less than a percent as one of Hatch's people did not know what Ethanol was. Further all the state legislative members who supported Pawlentys campaign issues were voted out of office.
Obama should be up 10-20 points in the polls. He is losing by 2-3 points.
If he couldn't get that support the past 3-5 months, he never will.
MCCAIN PALIN 2008
Norm Coleman is a great Republican, and Senator from Minnesota. Minnesota is becoming a red state, they also love Palin.
CNN polls put Obama in good shape in NH and MI and relatively close in VA and MO (MO will not go Obama).
So, for the time being, Nate's state by state projections are holding up pretty good despite the nasty campaign rhetoric and somewhat variant national polls.
Right now, Obama is holding all the Kerry states (and during McCain's bounce). IA and NM look good too. Can he take CO/NV - that is the question?
"Right now, Obama is holding all the Kerry states (and during McCain's bounce). IA and NM look good too."
NM does not look good. McCain is pulling ahead in NM.
I'm telling you.. Florida.
Dan, NM looking good for Obama??? Rasmussen has him down there!
Take a Chill pill.
Yeah, we've got those.
- Sarah Palin
Not to mention Cindy McCain, who is also a drug addict.
Nate:
Any thoughts on this?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/10/10169/7586/567/593363
Dear Natalie.
Bush won in 2000 in Florida but remember the OHIO FRAUD in 2004.
There asre some links for that.
http://www.jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html
http://revver.com/video/334396/ohio-2004-election-fraud/
http://www.alternet.org/story/58328/
Greg, you are not hitting hard enough. I thought you came from the political stripe of strength and power. What's the matter with you? Stop trying to hit these people and hit them!
;-)
And it's officially out.
New Mexico
Rasmussen New Mexico Poll
MCCAIN: 49
Obama: 47
Obama support remains at 47%. McCain surgest 8% from 41-49%.
The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of North Dakota voters shows McCain with a 14-percentage point lead over Barack Obama, 55% to 41%. In early July, the candidates were tied in the state and Obama was looking to the Dakotas and Montana as a way to expand the electoral map for Democrats. Now, the Democratic nominee appears to be more focused on traditional battleground states.
McCain now leads by 22 percentage points among independent voters. In July, Obama had a ten-point advantage among those voters.
Obama reeled in the McPow and Caribou Barbie campaign hook, line and sinker with his pig comment. They fell for it like there was no tomorrow. Obama with 300 electoral votes and by 5,000,000 in the popular vote......it will be a real yawner.........
"Charles should lose his sexism.--
McCain is a pig too. Happy? :)"
This pig-bashing must end. Pigs are much nicer animals than humans.
Kerry states + IA +CO + NM = end of story.
I for one am glad everyone is focused on OH, PA, VA and FL however. Heck MI, too. The Repubs are being played. Obama got schooled in Chicago:
Somebody brought a knife to a gunfight - and it ain't him.
And NM is fine, let Ras +McCain to every state they poll. The day Obama makes a visit to NM, THEN I'll be worried.
The Red Trolls on this site are probably paid to be here, as they make no sense whatsoever; they're more deluded than Tom Cruise on the Today Show.
Greg -
Coleman was mayor of St. Paul for two terms...and oh yeah while he was doing that he was a democrat. He also has the fine distinction of running against Jesse Ventura and losing.
I am iffy about how much they like her outside of Michelle Bachman's and Klines districts...
Not even beginning to take into account the fact that MN has same day registration for voting (why they have such a high voting turnout) so you have a higher youth and inner city turn out as a result. Neither of those factors are good for a McCain/Palin campaign. Minnesotans do grass roots campaigning better/more effectively then any other state I have come accross, lending a hugfe DFL ground operation to Obama's cause. Another negative against McCain.
As Jules said in Pulp Fiction...
We have to be talking about one charming M-F-ing pig. I mean, he's got to be 10 times more charming than that Arnold on Green Acres...
RASMUSSEN POLLS OUT
ND
McCain up 55-41
NM
McCain up 49-47
AK
McCain up 64-33
[up 20 points here!]
I Love the Expanded Electoral Map Obama!!!
"The Red Trolls on this site are probably paid to be here, as they make no sense whatsoever; they're more deluded than Tom Cruise on the Today Show."
Look at who McCain targets with his campaigning: the stupider the better. That's who he's aiming for.
Three new state polls out today move John McCain a bit closer to Barack Obama in the Electoral College. New Mexico moves from “Leans Democratic” to “Toss-Up,” North Dakota moves from “Leans Republican” to “Likely Republican” and Alaska moves from “Likely Republican” to “Safely Republican.” With these changes, the Rasmussen Reports Balance of Power Calculator show Obama leading in states with 193 Electoral College votes and McCain ahead in states with 189 Electoral College votes. When “leaners” are included, it’s Obama 259, McCain 247.
I see they have the Sarah Palin action figure out on the market. It is 1/12 the acutal size of her so it only bills the State of Alaska $5.00 a night to stay at home.......
[up 20 points] from last month....
44%->64%
We'll see if McCain can continue to draw crowds and get the rah-rah-rah at rallies later this week when Palin goes back to Alaska.
My money is on.... no.
Natalie-
It's not what we 'think' happened in Ohio in 2004.
It's that now that the Governor and Attorney General of Ohio are Democrats, that's an edge Bush had that McCain doesn't.
P.S. Anybody have a link to the daily tracking polls for Carter vs. Reagan?
If this YouTube vid gets big enough, this will blow over quickly, or it may blow up in McCain's face: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMPYkNQlJMM
As for NM, looking at the polling history I see three polls taken in two weeks in mid-August: one has Obama +14, one has Obama +4, one has McCain +4. Are we really supposed to take one McCain +2 as a perfectly accurate result?
The first poll after the convention is important, but I'd rather see a couple more results before saying Obama's in serious trouble there. Not to mention this is most likely McCain's best polling cycle of the entire convention.
The state numbers of the last few days have really been fine for Obama. If McCain can't take the lead in any Kerry states, he is in trouble as if those are all in hand he has a lot of paths to victory. Several are still in doubt, and some haven't put out post-convention polls yet, but if I were a McCain supporter I would have hoped he would actually be, you know, ahead in the race at his high-water point. He's not far behind at all, but "not far behind" is not ahead.
What states does Obama still have a chance in? Not many.
Ohio? No, won't win in the Appalachian counties. Bradley effect prevelent here also.
Michigan? Again no. Not only Bradley Effect, but an unpopular Democrat Mayor and Governor.
Colorado? No. Too many evangelicals that love Sarah Palin.
Virginia? Not anymore thanks to Palin, he is now up solidly.
Nevada? Not likely, is a very red state.
New Mexico? That's slipping away.
Indiana? They may as well pull out now. Redder and redder.
What is left?
How about paraphrasing MSNBC's First Read, and saying, every day we spend talking about these silly non-issues is a day we spend not talking about the economy, the war in Iraq, and future of this country with 4 more years like the last 8; and every day we spend not talking about these issues is a good day for John McCain -- and a bad day for our country.
Greg! You're right! I live in Vermont and I'm really starting to panic!
I have a blue Kleenex box on my desk and it's turning red right before my very eyes!
I'm curious what McCain/Palin's up to with their doubling down of all these lies. The Anonymous Liberal notes that "They (the McCain Campaign) seem determined to provoke a reluctant press corps into calling McCain and his new running mate liars. They seem determined to push the bounds of decency to a point where most reporters feel the need to defend Obama from obviously scurrilous attacks and brazen lies."
Also, I saw this on the blog of Craig’s List founder, Craig Newmark, yesterday and thought it was a cool idea and worth passing along:
"Hey, this is a good example of genuine grassroots democracy:
ObamaTravel.org is a platform that connects volunteers who want to travel to a swing state with financial sponsors and swing state host families. It’s sort of a political hybrid of craigslist and Team-in-Training - volunteers post profiles and solicit sponsorship from their family and friends. Sponsors can see their donations in action by following the activities of their volunteers.
... and let's remember that "community organizing" is pure grassroots democracy."
greg--I find it comical that McCain +2 in Virginia is a solid lead, but Obama +1 in Michigan means there's no chance...for Obama. The Bradley effect, as has been frequently discussed, is not backed by any evidence whatsoever regarding Obama, and yet you're clutching to it like a seven year old clutches to Santa Claus.
Don't pretend that this drivel is analysis.
Greg, you said that Senator Obama only has a chance in 10 states. I'm sure you're not counting DC, so we'll say 10+DC. That implies that Senator McCain will win the other 40.
What 10 states could these be? I'm guessing by your math that's CA, WA, HI, IL, DE, MD, NY, RI, MA, and VT.
Sound about right? Or are you afraid to answer?
not to mention Obama is +3 in Colorado. If +2 is a solid lead in your book, +3 is a veritable blowout.
Obama wins Kerry+IA,CO
McCain wins FL, MO, OH, NM, NV, VA
Total: M270-O268
Ouch.
New Mexico is a classic swing state.
I think Obama wlll win in this state, for less less margin.
Mike has correctly listed the only states (and DC) that Obama can truly count on now.
I'm not sure what to make of this unholy alliance of late. If we keep this up, people might start thinking we're pals or something.
We might need a knock-down, dragout just to rekindle the rivalry.
Just trying to keep it even-keeled, you know? Plus, it ticks me off when someone says I said something I didn't say, and I know you've said that McCain is annoying you.
Oh... Uh... and you are a douche!
:-P
Biden just said at a town hall that Hillary would have made a better running mate than he does.
An honest man, but a bad admission for Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVy2yh28eig
Whither Biden?
If Obama wins Colorado he wins NM too.
I think is more difficult for Obama to win in Colorado than New Mexico.
I agree with the commenter (Marie) who proposed "ENOUGH" as an Obama campaign slogan. It can be used to counteract any and all of the s**t that the McCain campaign dishes out.
However, it should be combined with "We are better than this"; and/or "America deserves better than this"(also from Obama's acceptance speech).. Examples
ENOUGH about Paris and Britney... We deserve better than this
ENOUGH made-up controveries ... we deserve better than this (referencing the lipstick on a pig controversy for example).
ENOUGH of the Bush/Cheney/McCain/Palin failed policies... We deserve better than this!
So, folks, how long will it take the Enquirer to get hold of the Palins' medical records?
MO isn´t in play.
"Biden just said at a town hall that Hillary would have made a better running mate than he does."
Heh.
Obama is *definitely* up to something.
This fits nicely into my crazy theory. :)
Greg says that Obama can't count on Connecticut, New Jersey, Oregon, or anything in the midwest except Illinois. Moreover, the 107 electoral votes that I believe Obama would win if the election were held today are going to all break for McCain in eight weeks.
At least Greg is not afraid. If Greg were above the age of 35 and a citizen, he could run for President, too.
We all think MO isn't in play, but McCain sure is running a helluva lot of ads in the Kansas City market.
Greg! You're right! I live in Vermont and I'm really starting to panic!
I have a blue Kleenex box on my desk and it's turning red right before my very eyes!
You might want to stop that bleeding! I suggest direct pressure, followed by elevation and constricting the bloodflow.
kozierok,
Vermont, eh....great state. Climbed Mt. Mansfield a month or so ago. Love it up there.
How long until Obama throws Biden under the bus? How much will he have to beg the Clintons? What will the demand?
Vermont is in play.
The northern plains are off the table just as I had considered they might be. NC is likely around an 8 pt lead for McCain...not 20. I also am skeptical of CO staying on the blue side of things. I expect it to gravitate towards McCain by a 2-4 point margin.
In 1988.
I agree with Stop the sutter. Vermont is one of the most beautiful states.
How long until Obama throws Biden under the bus?
Not more bus analogies. Oh well. Sounds like he's jumping.
How much will he have to beg the Clintons?
None. He could pose a simple question:
Do you want to be the first female VP or do you want Sarah Palin to?
What will they demand?
Bill in the SCOTUS?
Amazing that even Democrats are abandoning the loser Biden in a state of sheer panic.
Amazing that even Democrats are abandoning the loser Biden in a state of sheer panic.
Hey... Ask stupid questions - get stupid answers.
What does it say about Obama's judgment that Hillary was not picked first?
I predict if McCain ends up winning while using all the sleaze, dishonesty, and lies, the United States will descend into a "cold civil war". There is NO way he can effectively govern while pissing off roughly half of the American electorate while losing his own honor.
America has been divided during the Bush years, but it will seem like a tea party compared to the ugliness you'll see erupt in this country next year, should McCain/Palin prevail.
"Vermont is in play."
LOL.
Thanks. Yes, it's a lovely state. It would stop me from moving to Canada if McCrap is elected. Maybe we should secede.
Greg: What if Biden doesn't get thrown under the bus? What if this was planned from the start? Mwahahaha.
"Biden just said at a town hall that Hillary would have made a better running mate than he does."
Heh.
Obama is *definitely* up to something.
Did he really say that?
Yeah, I can totally see a swap coming...and I suspect Biden would absolutely settle for the State Department.
Hillarious.
Kerry was much further behind Bush at this time four years ago. Mondale and Gerrie were leading Ronald Reagan in 1984, as was Jimmy Carter in 1980.
Relax, folks. There's a loooonnngg way to go yet.
More panic on the left as they go groveling back to the Clintons.
Co-Presidency of Clinton/Obama?
"Bill in the SCOTUS?"
Bill's been disbarred, which I think would make that a tough sell. Also, I think he would HATE being in the SCOTUS.
*Something* is going on, though. I can feel it.
What does it say about Obama's judgment that Hillary was not picked first?
He had a better secondary plan than McCain's primary plan?
"Did he really say that?"
Yeah, he did.
What does it say about Obama's judgment that Hillary was not picked first?
It says that he turned McCain "going second" in the convention around on him.
McCain couldn't say anything if Hillary replaced Biden because McCain himself aired an ad asking "Hillary came in second in the primaries but Obama didn't choose her as a running mate...why?", so to attack the swap would make a hypocrite of him (though his recent campaign behavior suggests he hardly gives a damn anymore).
Obama, once his own man, may be about to be transformed into a vassal puppet-President of the Clinton machine.
"What does it say about Obama's judgment that Hillary was not picked first?"
It says that he knew if he picked a woman that McCain would choose someone like Romney, who could effectively give Obama trouble in the northeast and on the economy. By not picking a woman he suckered McCain into picking an under-qualified woman like the Caribou Bimbo. Now if Obama goes back to Hillary, McCain is fucked.
That about cover it? LOL
Bill's been disbarred, which I think would make that a tough sell. Also, I think he would HATE being in the SCOTUS.
I agree that it would be a tough sell, but not because of the disbarment. Just because of the politics, and possible COIs.
I disagree, though, on Bill hating the SCOTUS. I think he'd love it. 20+ years to continue to leave his mark. Increase his legacy... Etc.
Obama, once his own man, may be about to be transformed into a vassal puppet-President of the Clinton machine.
I despise the Clintons, but Palin is 100 times worse.
jakam--A voter told Biden he was glad Biden was the VP pick and not Hillary. Biden got pissed and said that she was absolutely qualified to be president and "quite frankly in might have been a better pick than me." He was being complimentary and most likely referring to her strong performance in the primaries.
By no means did he actually say she would be a better pick than him, he was responding emotionally to a voter who insulted his close friend. He was being humble, a very rare trait in politicians these days. And based on the context I don't see any reason to think Obama told him to say that to "set the stage" for a running mate swap. It would reek of an absolute desperation move and the McCain camp would jump all over it, you know it. It would seize the spotlight, but the Palin frenzy is quieting anyway. The Obama campaign is about the issues, keep it there and stick with a good VP choice.
It ain't gonna happen.
Continue to Spread the Word!!! said...
Obama should be up 10-20 points in the polls. He is losing by 2-3 points.
Oh for the love of God will you people just shut the fuck up already? You're the same god damned people who were saying back in April as Obama was walking away with the nomination "Y'all better pick Hillary, ain't no black secret Mulsim gonna git close to bein' president, hu-yuck!"
The "black secret muslim" is currently keeping pace with McPOW through his convention bounce, and in a little more than two weeks Obama's gonna carve him up on national TV in the debates.
It ain't gonna happen.
Oh, I don't want it too, and I think Obama will win as is.
Nate -
A couple of issues with your suggestion:
You use the word "They" too much. It is divisive. It sounds like he is labeling people. He needs an injection of class into his tone.
Instead of screaming about mock outrage, he should laugh it off and say it is funny how easily their feelings get hurt. He should state that of course he was not talking about her.
Also, the "provide for them" line smacks of Socialism. People expect Government to lend a helping hand, but not "provide for them".
That would not go over well with independents. I think your suggestion would be a play to the base (Us vs. Them tone) but not to independents. In fact, it would alienate Independents.
I think Obama only made things worse with his response today. He cannot lecture the other side about their tone and seriousness when he is using rhetoric like that.
Even if it was not intended to smear her, it was a combative taunt. His tone has gotten very angry, very divisive. He is also starting to look badly fazed.
Even as he said those words, he rubbed his forehead in palpable frustration. He suddenly cannot end his -ing's with a g.
I looks rattled and worried. The calm, cool confidence aura is gone. Honestly, he looks wilted in his appearances, which adds to the them of him not being ready for the job.
“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me.”
Well at least he's honest.
"I despise the Clintons, but Palin is 100 times worse."
Ditto. But add a few zeroes.
I would LOVE to see Hillary Clinton rip that smarmy, lying little bitch to shreds on October 2nd.
I am in the UK and the news here on the newcasts are all reporters smirking that the Republicans have stuck it to the Democrats again, and are piling on the smears while the Dems flail about aimlessly.
They showed Obama's ENOUGH speech, but he needs to do more. Where are the ads he needs to be running?
This is a problem, but it is also an opportunity. He does need to quickly regroup and go on the attack. People know the lies and the smears nad who started it, and actually it won't influence their votes, UNLESS (1) Obama comes across as all wussy and aloof, too proud to fight, or (2) he over-reacts, goes into angry black man mode and says really nasty things about the nice white lady.
Its no good the Huffington Post saying there is a backlash against McCain; as yet I don't see it. Obama has to go into an attack mode.
This time tomorrow, McCain could have another smear out, and his 527 groups are still readying to pile on.
It is incredible that the Obama campaign may not have prepared a strategy to fight a Swiftboat-type smear campaign. At the moment, I await (hopefully) a coherent response.
The question: Can the Democrat Party win without the Clinton Machine?
Doubtful. Extremely doubtful.
I would LOVE to see Hillary Clinton rip that smarmy, lying little bitch to shreds on October 2nd.
It would be entertaining, but won't you think of the children? What would they do without their mother?
"By no means did he actually say she would be a better pick than him, he was responding emotionally to a voter who insulted his close friend. He was being humble, a very rare trait in politicians these days."
Well, it may indeed have just been that, but he *did* say she "might have been a better pick than me".
I don't think he's really going to do it, but if it really was something Obama and Biden and Clinton planned in advance, it was sheer genius.
"It would be entertaining, but won't you think of the children? What would they do without their mother?"
Let's wait until the full National Enquirer series is out to decide if they are better off with her or without her. (Just kidding, just kidding.)
I have said it once and I might have to say it again, unless some people calm down. There is NO chance, nil, nada, zip, squiat, zero, chance of Biden being dropped by the ticket. The lunch wioth Bill Clinton is to fulfill a wish on the part of both men to meet up once the dust had settled over the primary campaign. Hillary will be used as and when necessary, as will Bill. Lets stop looking for gossip and rumor where it doesn't exist.
The question: Can the Democrat Party win without the Clinton Machine?
Aside:
I find it somewhat ironic that many conservative posters talk about "THE CLINTON MACHINE" while simultaneously reminding us that "NO DEM HAS HAD A MAJORITY SINCE XXXXX", where XXXX is before Clinton.
The boys would become drug dealers and the girls would get pregnant, drop out of high school, and go on welfare.
Kind of like how they currently act without their mother.
Relax, markymark...speculation never hurt anyone.
Obama is winning the news cycle on lipstick-gate because it is all quotes from him. It is a two-fer... he changes the headlines and he gets to keep repeating that McCain/Palin = Bush/Cheney. He squelched Palinmania for today... let's see if the McCain campaign overplays their hand again.
The media narrative is becoming a farce. They loved the Hillary-Barrack show now we have the Sarah-Barrack one. Poor John and Joe aren't even being considered.
Kind of reminds me of the old show Cheers. First there was Sam and Diane, then Diane left and then there was Sam and Rebecca (??? The Kirstie Alley character).
I'm not sure how this going to all shake out, but I'd rather be in Obama's position than McCain's on this.
It is incredible that the Obama campaign may not have prepared a strategy to fight a Swiftboat-type smear campaign.
Ummm... What the heck was the "Fight the Smears" campaign all about?
Obama has two running mates: Joe Biden and the National Enquirer. One talks too much. The other writes too much. One is kind of boring. The other, well, put it this way: Nearly 3 million people per week pay to find out what it has to say.
midpontman--
All I've heard on this site from the GOP-leaning folks (and some Dems) is that Obama is too cool, that he's answering personal attacks with the tone of a law professor. When people attack him personally and lie about him and themselves, I think if he isn't upset about it (and showing it) the voters don't see the outrage as genuine.
I fail to see how showing emotion about what has been a disgraceful and dishonest campaign on McCain's part (after he pledged he wouldn't go negative) is a sign of panic. It's a sign of anger and frustration, which he has every right to show.
After all you all ranted on about how he's just a smooth politician, don't forget that his tone is most likely very calculated.
toby -
I agree 100% with you.
Let me add one thing.
They simply have to STOP the attacks on Palin. PERIOD. COMPLETE SILENCE.
The problem is that all these attacks lose their impact when people see her. All this talk that she is some crazy right wing nutcase just looks so out of touch and crazy when people see her up there, smiling, waving, happy, looking great.
The message and the imagery are so incompatible. To most women, she looks like one of their friends, the one how has her act together.
This is why all the attacks on Reagan failed to hit the mark. They called him everything that Palin is getting and more. They called him a warmonger who was at the ready to push the button on day one.
Then he would get up there and seem like you nice grandfather talking about what a great kid you are and what a great country this is, right before telling you about the war.
It simply did not jive.
This is a repeat. If these attacks never worked against Thatcher, will they work against Palin? No way.
They have to wait until Palin trips up, but they have to wait.
Continuing this litany of mostly nonsensical attacks is innoculating her to the more factual attacks.
Obama looks so frazzled, and by this charming little Hockey Mom. What will Putin do to him?
That is what a lot of people are wondering.
You guys are ridiculous.
Someone told Biden at a town-hall meeting that he was really glad Hillary hadn't been chosen.
Biden "testily" gives the usual response -- that Hillary is as qualified, or more qualified, as he is.
This is news?
By the way, I love how all the disingenuous right-wingers commenting here are just really big fans of Hillary Clinton. Because in her 15 years or so in the public spotlight, they've had nothing but the highest respect for her.
Oh.. I fully agree, Markymark. I was just responding to Greg's silly questions, becaue they were so easy. Speaking hypotheically though, if given the opportunity, why wouldn't HRC pass up a chance to smackdown SP? It's a no-brainer, as the former, no-doubt, views the latter of some sort of unqualified pretender to the throne of "Most Influential Woman in Politics".
Nearly two weeks, and the Obama campaign is still flat footed.
Why? STILL panicked?
"Biden "testily" gives the usual response -- that Hillary is as qualified, or more qualified, as he is."
Yes, he did that. And normally we would expect that he'd stop there. But then he added in the part about her being a better pick.
Why would he do that? He's been around for 35 years. He knows that that would be picked up. Sure he runs at the mouth sometimes but he's not stupid.
I dunno what it is, but they are up to something.
The more I read of these posts (sensible 538 old timers who are trying to work out how Obama/McCain can win aside) and their partisan juvenile bickering, the more I think this democracy malarkey is a tad overrated and ill-suited for the U.S.
Goodness me, surely we are better than this?
Justin -
His mock outrage is what is crazy. He fired the first shot, and now he is whining. His comment was a low blow, no way about it. The McCain response was smart.
Obama does have a history of dismissive remarks to women, and they are all be recounted today in every news outlet. He created that history, not McCain.
Either he is not smart enough to connect the dots (funny that the audience certainly did) or too petulant to admit it.
Now he looks like a fussy teenager pointing fingers.
Not Presidential. He needs to shut up about Palin. It lowers his stature by going after the VP slot, that is Biden's job.
The problem is that Biden makes heartless stem cell comments that are just uninformed about...SCIENCE.
He should know that Down's syndrome has nothing to do with Stem Cells, and that the Stem Cell debate is pretty much over anyway. Technology has rendered it basically moot, if you follow the science.
They both look wobbly.
Rasmussen usually puts out good polls, but that New Mexico poll is a little suspect. He used the same set of voters (McCain +2) and found Tom Udall with only a 7 point lead over Steve Pearce.
If Udall is indeed only up 7-10 points on Pearce, why did the NRSC pull out of the state?
Something is amiss about that NM poll. It isn't a complete outlier, but I think Udall is really up about 15-18 points and Obama is up between 5-7 points (in between the double-digit polls and this Ras poll)
Senator Obama loses a lot of cred when he chooses to object to the R's running with his lipstick on a pig double entente the same day his surrogate, the NY Governor, is accusing Palin of being a racist with community organizer is a synonym for "blacks."
BTW, I think someone should check to see whether Trig Palin has Down Syndrome or whether it's fetal alcohol syndrome. With the Palins, you never can tell.
Daniel -
New Mexico has a lot in common with States like Alaska.
The left says things like "More Caribou than People"
...and they hear...
"More tumbleweeds than people"
...mocking Alaska is not far off from mocking them.
All of this "Palin is a rube" talk alienates them in ways that Obama does not quite understand.
Charlie said...
BTW, I think someone should check to see whether Trig Palin has Down Syndrome or whether it's fetal alcohol syndrome. With the Palins, you never can tell.
--------------
That's way out of line. Knock it off Charlie, you're worse than the GOOPer trolls here.
It's funny how Palin's entrance in the race has made certain sayings taboo for Democrats but not Republicans. The Republicans can say, "look, we're not racist, we have a woman on the ticket!"
I'd advise the Obama campaign to stray away from phrases such as "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Sure, it's ridiculous that equality of the sexes amounts to protecting even Vice Presidential candidates from even questionably offensive remarks, but that's the way the game is played now. Obama's best bet is to keep Bush's failed policies in the lime light and just how much McCain is like Bush and tell the American people how his plan is better than McCain's.
Glenn -
And what about the South Carolina Congresswoman?
"Her only qualification is that she never had an abortion"
I mean, this is amazing. The hypocrisy of challenging McCain or the media on the tone of this campaign when his surrogates, elected Democrats, are saying things like that.
It simply falls on deaf ears, and makes Obama look worse for his whining.
Lots of people seem to think Palin is a racist. The fun is just beginning, folks.
Glenn-
Why do they keep talking about the CO years then? When BHO was a CO, Sarah Palin was a journalist. Surely there's more interesting stuff in his IL and US Senate records. Why keep bringing up something positive and altruistic he did years ago?
It's a code for "Urban Black".
midpointman,
I did not know that Hispanics comprised 42% of Alaska's population...Alaska and New Mexico are actually drastically different demographically...
Hispanics only comprise about 4% of Alaska's population. The states aren't even remotely comparable.
The closest states demographically to Alaska are Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota. NM is actually nowhere close to similar to Alaska.
And you didn't answer the previous question: Why is the NRSC not running ads full blast against Udall, if indeed the Senate race (using the same sample) is in the single digits?
Lipstickgate may just turn out to be the tipping point in this campaign. The point at which enough people said enough.
Expect McCain and Palin to start going on the defensive.
midpointman--
I haven't noticed the demonstration of his "history of dismissive attacks towards women" in the news. I haven't checked Fox News today, I guess I'm looking at the wrong media outlets.
The lipstick on a pig thing is absolutely ridiculous. If McCain hadn't said it recently (and about a woman candidate no less) it would be one thing, but since he had it just comes off as hypocritical and incredibly whiny. There was no mention of Palin and the "lipstick" connection is incredibly flimsy. Then the McCain camp states that while McCain was talking about a POLICY, Obama was talking about a PERSON. There's no reasoning whatsoever behind that, they're just trying to explain (poorly) away their hypocrisy.
That's way out of line. Knock it off Charlie, you're worse than the GOOPer trolls here.
Well, let's see. Track Palin's a thug and a drug addict. Sarah's daughter was knocked up out of wedlock, just like her. The daughter's baby daddy is a boozer and pothead, and since she came jup pregnant she and daddy have been with other people.
I'd say this is not exactly Leave It To Beaver. The Palins have a track record of lying, so who in hell knows what the story is with that child?
I'll bet you the National Enquirer gets the medical records and that more surprises will be in store on a bunch of things.
midpointman: Not Presidential. [Obama] needs to shut up about Palin. It lowers his stature by going after the VP slot, that is Biden's job.
You, Sir are ridiculous. you make it sound like Obama is ranting about Palin like an obsessive. The only occasions, to my knowledge, he actually her mentioned her directly are to defend her faith and defend her family situation.
You need to start discerning fact from illusion
Daniel -
Hispanics are socially conservative. Palin has dark features. My wife is Brazilian, and with her glasses on and hair pulled back, there is a stunning resemblance.
They look at her and see someone they could like.
Your identity politics are failing you a bit.
Hispanics are not reliable Democrats.
Welcome to the reality.
The fact is, the GOP is used to smearing the Democrats all over the place while the Democrats try to take the high road. Unfortunately that strategy fails when the opponent is obviously desperate for a win at the cost of all dignity. So Obama fires back and all the Republicans can do is cry foul. They're like a bully who has become used to getting his way, except one day the other kid realizes he doesn't like getting picked on, and picks back. And the bully goes running to the teacher. They can dish it out, but they can't take it.
Nate --
You may not be Jon Favreau, but you're pretty close to him. Perhaps you should forward your speech to Axelrod.
In any case, to respond to some earlier posts, I'm glad Obama came out and said the similar "enough is enough" -- hopefully it'll hit the airwaves running...
midpointman, you're doing an excellent job of showing what a Hannity dittohead you really are. Keep up the great work!
becky -
You, ma'am are missing out on reality.
He looks anything but Presidential.
Howard Fineman is even pulling his hair out about why Obama is going after her.
He mentioned her right after the "pig" quote.
Sure he talks about other things, but is the same old lines that have not worked.
The only new things he says involves her, hence that is what makes headlines.
He looks anything but Presidential today.
Hispanics only comprise about 4% of Alaska's population.
True, but they also lay claim to Scotty Gomez, NHL's Rookie of the Year in 1999-2000.
Omama +1 in Rasmussen, but -5 in Gallup? Lipstick on dogs is good, but pigs is bad? Obama is not a popular celebrity, while McCain is the nations defender of women's rights?
Seriously, this week is noise.
Charles -
Hannity is begging Obama to keep attacking.
I am telling him to stop, watch, wait.
Reconcile these 2 facts in your mind.
Nice attack on the messenger though, avoiding the facts...
Typical.
>>He mentioned her right after the "pig" quote.
What did he say?
midpointman,
Hispanics in that part of ther country are more likely to vote for the man that looks like them (Obama) than the white gringo from the Southwest (McCain)...
Just because Palin has a nice sun tan does not mean that those voters actually think she's Hispanic...you are demeaning their intelligence...they know she's white...
And for the third time...where is the NRSC with their saturation ad buys, carpetbombing Albuquerque and Santa Fe's media markets, if indeed Pearce is that close to Udall for a Senate seat you know John Ensign, a southwestern senator himself, would love to have?
Justin -
The Dems invented smearing. Obama is from the Chicago Machine...
How about the phony Bush documents?
How about the Bush cocaine rumors?
...Bush infidelity rumors?
How about the ridiculous assertions that McCain caused the Forrestal Accident?
How about claims that McCain was dishonorable as a POW?
What about Wes Clark (what else is there to say)?
How about the entire Huffington Post right now?
This holier than thou "victim" mentality makes me laugh.
The Clinton's were smear merchants, Axelrod is too.
Obama got Alice Palmer booted off the ballot despite the fact that he agreed to defer to her if she decided to run again.
It is really funny to see this phony victimization.
midpointman -- You're a propagandist. I don't really care what you think. Sorry.
Anyone who works this hard cheerleading for a piece of shit like McCain is beneath contempt.
Hope that was 'bipartisan' enough for you. :P
"How about the phony Bush documents?"
Welcome to the twentyfuckingfirst century.
Obama has run a clean campaign. McCain promised he would. He's even worse than Bush.
Those are the facts, your bullshit ain't changing them.
Daniel -
Give it up. My wife is Hispanic, and she is not stupid. She even told me that Sarah looks Hispanic. They notice such things.
She does not look so foreign to them.
As for your little comment that Obama looks more like them? That is a riot. If you want to piss off Hispanics, go and say that to a group of them.
They are quite well aware of the difference between Africa and Latin America, despite the fact that you do not.
50% of Hispanics in the US also classify themselves as Caucasians.
Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic, and if not they are evangelicals. I do not have to tell you who those voters favor right now...
The more prosperous they get, the less they like Democrats. They come from nations where Government=Corruption.
Ever been to South Florida?
That will be your Hispanic vote 20 years from now, solid Republican...
At first I didn't think the "lipstick on the pig" line was intentional...but now I completely see this as a way to bait McCain.
Did anyone watch Hardball tonight? I was laughing out loud as Chris Matthews kept asking Republicans if they actually thought that Obama was calling Palin a pig. This whole thing is changing the story, which Obama needed, and is making McCains camp seem whiney. Too funny!
Daniel-
As for the NRSC, their polls might be showing the same thing today, who knows?
You love Rasmussen one day, hate him the next.
Funny.
amyloo: agreed! It was a masterstroke and McCain walked right into it.
And the best thing is Obama can keep on saying it with impunity because..lets face it folks...which do you really believe a)Obama is sexist or b)McCain is trying to sell us old goods in new packages.
midpointman,
I guess we'll just leave it at that...if you think Mexicans from the southwest will crawl over broken glass to vote for a white man from the Southwest (heck, Bush outpolled McCain by 15 points among this demographic the last two election cycles), then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...
And the Hispanic demographic isn't getting more Republican...in fact the Cuban demographic is getting more Democratic in South Florida as the old guard anti-Castro Cubans die off...this is why you see both Diaz-Balarts in trouble in their congressional races
Oh and by the way...sexism charges from the same guy who publicly called his wife a c**t and a trollop and joked that "Chelsea Clinton is so ugly because Janet Reno is her father".
McCain you're toast
Becky: He should say it every day. Continue to make it the joke that it is.
midpointman--
Pointing out Democratic-on-Republican smears doesn't make a point. I don't deny they exist. I can name just as many smears on Obama. Even Republicans are brutal to each other (the rumors that McCain's adopted child was fathered by him out of wedlock? That wasn't started by a Democrat). Politics are ugly. You have no argument from me and you totally missed my point.
I am talking about attacks by McCain and Palin on Obama's record, or about claims about themselves, that flatly contradict the facts. Or about television ads that claim Barack Obama wants to teach your 5-year-old how to use a condom. Or claims that he's going to rack up federal deficits (which is true, but seriously, pot, meet kettle). The Republicans expected Obama to take these attacks in stride, and that the moderate voters (at least the ones who believe everything they hear) would take them to be true.
Obama hasn't done that, he's fought back while staying on message. The basic campaign strategy is that McCain wants to avoid the issues and make it a culture war. Because he can't win on the issues!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic
Good reading for the ignorant when it comes to Hispanics and their cultural roots.
47% of Mexican-Americans are White
47% of Puerto Ricans are White
85% of Cuban-Americans are White
60% of South American Americans are White.
So when you say that Hispanics think Obama looks more like them, as if they are some single blob of monolithic thinkers...
You are being quite ignorant of their race and background.
Congratulations.
Oh and by the way...sexism charges from the same guy who publicly called his wife a c**t and a trollop and joked that "Chelsea Clinton is so ugly because Janet Reno is her father".
McCain you're toast
No he's not toast. There are more than enough hypocritical women to put him over the top.
Daniel -
I am sure the ad did not say that Obama wants to teach 5-year olds about putting on condoms.
It drew from a newspaper headline, which quite correctly stated that Obama was proposing "Comprehensive Sex Education" for Kindergartners.
It is all true.
Obama's response was lame...schools already teach kids about private parts and what to do if an adult touches them in a bad way.
We all understand that.
Obama's bill goes WAY beyond that. His response about sex predators is comvenient spin, programs for that have existed for decades. We all know that.
The ad was not a smear, but nice try.
Wow, so now it's Obama's fault that McCain pretended "lipstick on a pig" referred to Palin?
(And, FWIW, it is entirely reasonable to bring up the fact that Cheney's daughter is lesbian, given how much mileage the Republicans have made out of anti-gay politics in the last decade. Republicans are the ones who wanted to make private behavior the business of the government. But not when it affects any of their own families!)
Isn't it a tad sexist for Palin to claim *all* Hockey Moms are pitbulls?
Or for McCain to assume any (right wing zealot) woman will serve as a Hillary replacement?
Ever been to South Florida?
That will be your Hispanic vote 20 years from now, solid Republican.
Nice try. In fact, the second generation of Cuban Americans is much more likely to be Democrats than their parents were.
New Mexico: 57.7% of Hispanics are White.
That is 25% of the electorate. About 17% of the electorate is non-white Hispanics.
Just so you know...
Nate, I also thought it was a deliberate move, and very clever, as the only way it could be perceived that way is as an echo of Sarah Palin's joke during her speech, but since he wasn't referring to Palin at the time and McCain had used the same expression regarding Clinton's health care plan. he had plausible deniablity.
It had the effect of disrupting the news cycle that has been Palin 24/7 for a week now. And now the Repubs have egg on their face.
I hope you are right and it gives Obama a chance to get a word in edgewise.
becky -
I totally agree with you! I just wish some obscure 527 would call McCain out on some of his lovely character traits.
I love that the Obama camp knew exactly what they were doing... having all of the "lipstick pig" quotes from Republicans handy, including one of his advisors books with that exact title.
Did you see the one Republican strategist look like he was punched in the gut when he tried to defend the point with Matthews??
Hopefully this changes the storyline and people snap back to reality and realize McCain is just a gimmicky politician whose scared to fight over the issues.
Charlie -
Until they hit Age 40, and have kids...
...just like the rest of Americans.
If only all those Hippies had stayed Liberals, just think where you would be?
They got jobs and families and paid Carter's taxes and said screw it....
How about claims that McCain was dishonorable as a POW?
He made propaganda for the enemy, and implicitly admitted his dishonor in his convention speech. Not to mention that he was shot down after disobeying a direct order to abort his mission. "Ace" McCain was a fuckup throughout his military career, protected by his father but eventually passed over for promotion to flag rank.
p.s.: Mark your calendars for each Wednesday for the next six weeks. That's when the new National Enquirer hits the newsstands. Woo-hoo!
Matt Damon just said what I wish other high profile people would - the idea of Sarah Palin as President is TERRIFYING...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/10/damon-rips-palin-calls-her-terrifying/
Everytime I hear the name of Sarah Palin I have that picture of her in mind: "Lipstick!" (when she explained the difference between Hockey moms and pitbulls)
I don´t want a pitbull in the Naval Observatory, I don´t know what a Hockey Mom is, and "Lipstick!" is the best description of Sarah Palin I know.
Thanks for a thread that´s simply called "Lipstick", a dream come true.
By the way, I believe both Obama´s and McCain´s attacks were a bit sexist. But it looks like revenge to me, after the smears coming from the McCain campaign and Palin´s condescending remarks about community organizers.
And I think that this could be the case that teaches Democrats to use the media machine for their own good. It doesn´t matter if the details are true, get your message across and do it in a catchy way, it will work.
The "Palin" phase is over? - willful ignorance or THC-induced dreaming?
Tomorrow is the interview and the media/Obama campaign are going to jump all over her every statement, making sure she is the weekend news story once again.
Unless, of course, the "Friday surprise" is Biden "resigning" from the campaign for the whole Stand Up Chuck, Hillary Is Better debacles today. I guess the hair plugs are growing into his brain.
Prob not though. Just Sarah's interview being replayed, left and right.
Another possibility is that Biden's statements might be an attempt to finally get him the press time he thinks he deserves.
my god - you all are having mental hernias - this comments section has become more rabid than dkos - on both sides!
this lipstick biz is going to give you all a heart attack
lighten up!
My favorite part is that anyone wanting to watch Obama's say it has to listen to 30 seconds how McCain's economic, health care, tax, education, foreign policies and his campaign styles aren't change from Bush.
Check out how more on how this helps Obama at Heartless and Brainless.
From Political Radar...
Quoting Obama earlier this year...
"'Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,'" said Obama mimicking Keyes' distinctive style of speech. "Which -- I didn’t know what to tell him (laughter)."
"But it’s the right thing to do," Obama continued, "to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."
Watch the video:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492
No smear here...
re Biden-Clinton:
I created lots of complicated, exciting schemes to explain how this or that fact might point towards a VP Kathleen Sebelius, but in the end it was the easy, "boring" choice. There is one thing we shouldn´t expect from Obama´s campaign: drama.
amyloo -
The problem is that Matt Damon is an out of touch Harvard-ized Hollywood product, and nobody thinks much of his hyperbole.
The second problem is that they look at Sarah Palin, and she looks a lot less scary than Matt Damon did in The Talented Mr. Ripley.
It only deepens the narrative that Obama is a celebrity-set icon, and little else.
It is not helping.
Schools, not kindergarteners. If you watch the video you see that Obama keeps the distinction up. And when he "quoted" Alan Keyes he was parodying him, meaning he exaggerated what Keyes said to him.
And "age-appropriate" at a low age means: "Don´t follow that stranger..." And that´s the right thing to do. You should link that video at other places. It gives a very good impression of Obama´s position.
MPM: Yes, he said "age-appropriate" sex-ed. Where did he say teaching how to put condoms on is appropriate for 5 year olds?
My mouth has been hanging open since this broke.
Why are so many people actually FIGHTING over who gets to be the 'PC police'?
As liberal who has time and time and time again been accused of being part of the 'PC police' -- I'm personally glad to be rid of the bestowed title.
Just remember, my suddenly-so-sensitive conservative friends, with the title 'PC police' comes gggrreeeaaaattttt responsibility.
Congratulations - you are now responsible for defending every silly instance of a kindergartner being suspended for saying 'balls' or something.
You are now responsible for defending every lawsuit filed because some store greeter told you "Merry Christmas".
It's your bag now, baby.
See? This is great! Now I call you 'baby' - and YOU have to get all outraged about it.
Geez. Why didn't we on the left think of this years ago?
"No smear here..."
The entire point of him mocking Keyes is that Keyes twisted what he was really in favor of.
McCain did the same, so he's just as much of a lying sack of shit as Keyes.
You are now *also* doing the same, which means you are as much of a lying sack of shit as McCain.
Every time a celebrity issues some overwrought statement about how bad this or that Republican is, I cringe. They should shut up and write checks.
"He made propaganda for the enemy, and implicitly admitted his dishonor in his convention speech. Not to mention that he was shot down after disobeying a direct order to abort his mission. "Ace" McCain was a fuckup throughout his military career, protected by his father but eventually passed over for promotion to flag rank."
I don't know how much truth there is in this. But after McCain's recent performances, I feel pretty confident that it is going to come out. And then the shit will really hit the proverbial fan.
McCain has left himself *wide open* to the same treatment Kerry got over *his* military service in 2004. And for the first time since this started, I can honestly say that he deserves it.
This is the opening the Dems needed. I want to see Obama stomping on these folks and telling crowds "You see what I mean? I talk about their failures of policy, they talk about silly social issues. You know why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING!"
I'm tired of seeing Obama trying to be the good guy. You can be the good guy and have passion, and stomp on these slimy bastards who debase our poilitcs with their misdirection plays. And people aren't smart enough to come to their senses about it, unless you MAKE THEM FACE IT.
So what Obama needs to do is make people face up to the GOP's sad record and empty agenda, and tell them that this country has to demand better. If he makes that argument, the lipstick line may prove to be one of the final turning points, along with a strong debate against a befuddled McCain.
ENOUGH!
HE WAS TALKING ABOUT BUSH AND MCCAIN POLICIES. Fuck, does anyone actually believe a word that comes from the corporate lobbyists that run the McCain camp. They'd say Jesus was Hilter if it got McCain into the White House. This has to be the stupidest thing to come from the McCain camp yet.
LTR, FTP...
Kerry + IA + CO = 268 makes me realize why Obama and team is going for that lone Nebraska vote in Omaha (since they can, in theory, cast their vote differently than the rest of the state).
Always thinking those guys.
Thanks to Nate & Sean for the site and for the non-troll posters.
-Brendan
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