Both daily tracking polls now show Barack Obama moving slightly off his convention peaks. Gallup now has his lead at 6 points -- down from 8 points yesterday -- whereas Rasmussen has it at 3 points, down from 4 points yesterday.
Under typical conditions, we would expect the convention bounce to slightly increase, rather than decrease, as we headed into the weekend after the convention. As such, our model now regards Obama as having a slightly-below-average convention bounce. Obama now leads in the Gallup and Rasmussen trackers by an average of 4.5 points. In the week before the convention began, he had led in those polls by an average of 1.2 points. So, that represents a convention bounce of 3.3 points -- below the over-under number of 6.
On the other hand, there has never before been a circumstance in which the opposing party's VP has been named immediately after the convention, an event which often produces a bounce of its own. If a typical VP bounce is 5 points, and McCain has received that VP bounce by having named Sarah Palin to his ticket, Obama can be regarded as having had an above-average convention bounce (an 8.3-point convention bounce, counteracted by a 5-point McCain VP bounce).
All of this is academic, really, since all of these bounces will fade. I just wanted to emphasize the point that, because our model adjusts for the convention bounce but not the VP bounce, it is probably lowballing Obama's numers a bit at this point. By this time next week, when the GOP has had a convention of its own, we will be in a better position to evaluate the state of the race. I would recommend that you take our numbers with a grain of salt in the interim.
8.31.2008
Today's Polls, 8/31
by Nate Silver @ 2:14 PM...see also bounces, national polls, today's polls
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352 comments
Cavtrooper - I was taught that really shallow people judge others in the way you suggest, based just on associations. If you mean that in politics, associations can lead to smears that will effect the election, you are right. But that doesn't make it a good lesson for our kids to learn, or the right thing.
John McCain's selection of an unqualified VP without proper vetting proves that he does not have the judgment to be Commander in Chief. We need a wise leader who can listen, think and make sound decisions, not a "gambler" who makes stupid moves without due consideration.
John McCain has proven that Obama/Biden is the safe choice for America's future security.
Cavtrooper, I was taught from an early age that guilt by association is WRONG. You somehow give weight to it, as if painting Obama as somehow subversive due to a loose association with Ayers is a valid and legit way to judge him.
Ever heard of Joe McCarthy? You are showing tendencies in that direction.
PeterKent
"Third the bother in law was a dangerous sack of s---. He tasered his step son, he rode around in his patrol car drinking beer, and he threatened to kill the Governor’s father. As was said on the cable news, if you want to build an argument against Palin based on this poster child, bring it on."
Those accusations come from the Palin's sister. Hardly objective sourcing.
More interesting is what will happen when the news hits that Sarah's newborn is actually her daughter's...
Nobody gets mono for 5-7 months.
VC,
Keep spinning or answer the simple question. You made a claim that her views were not the same as Buchanan's. Prove it. You made a stupid claim and now you're caught with your foot in your mouth.
Oh I thought you all had already talked about Wright, Ayers, Rezko...is there more to say?;)
How hard is this, OTF?
She said she supported FORBES, not Buchanan. Why would someone with Buchanan's views endorse Forbes?
GOPers you need to back off. Don't you realize that Obama is the next Abe Lincoln and Palin is not qualified. Just because Britney Spears set designer designed the stage for Obama does not make him the Anerican Idol candidate. Look, he has a law degree from Harvard - that means something, right? And he worked his way up as a community organizer in Chicago, that's better than being the gov of Alaska, right? Powerful stuff this Obama man. Sure Palin could probably kick his ass with her stiletto heels but the last thing we need in this country is more warmongering and violence.
Obama/Biden '08
John McCain: Country first? Give me a fucking break.
---
Today, Obama stated that he would stay out of the way as Hurricane Gustav once again threatens the Gulf Coast. Even Bush, who three years ago celebrated Katrina's landfall at John McCain's birthday party, is staying away.
What does McCain do? Just like he did when he traveled to a market place in Baghdad, he puts the lives of Americans in danger, and diverts the mission for his own personal political gain. He will travel to the Gulf Coast to give a speech while emergency professionals are urging people to leave. Not only is it political grandstanding, it's a disgusting display of the type of bad leadership we would see if John McCain became President.
Preparedness for hurricanes is serious business. When it's done right, emergency managers control the airwaves, the message, and urge political leaders to stay out of the way so they can make sure people and property are safe. Senators and Congressmen are briefed, but told to stay out of the way and wait until they find out what resources are needed, and then make it happen. The governor takes cues from the Emergency Management director of the state: brief people to get out, show leadership, be honest, and make the calls for resources that need to be made. The President turns the keys to government over to the FEMA director to make sure resources flow properly and stands by to twist arms if needed. The business of disasters is left to disaster professionals with politicians playing a supporting role.
Now admittedly, we haven't seen that in recent years, but when government works for people, this is how it happens.
But not in 2008, and not when John McCain is sucking wind on a political campaign.
Now, some Americans will see McCain's trip as "leadership" but just as John McCain's visit to a marketplace in Baghdad resulted in three Blackhawk helicopters and hundreds of soldiers being ordered to protect his photo op stroll through the market, this could be deadly.
It's a complete disregard for the mission and the government professionals at all levels attempting to keep people safe.
VC-
Just wanted to point out that said that McCain's mind must be going.
Pretty evident from his VP selection process.
now children ...
You guys are just pissed because you know, deep down, you inherited the most favorable political climate in 35 years and made the election a nail bitter by nominating Obama instead of Hillary. I'm loving it.
Will water,
Nobody that is G5P4 with PROM gives a speech, then takes a 11hour fight with a lay over in Seattle and then travels 45 minutes to a rural hospital, to delivers a potential high risk downs syndrome baby.
Knowing someones personal story is irrelevant to their effectiveness as president. America has turned politics into "Political idol" where we have bafoons voting for individuals on history, and color of their skin and gender. None of this matters. Other countries do not do this.
The energy debate is a perfect example. The GOP is pushing Drill Drill Drill! and most of the country believes that to be a real way to become energy independent when its not. Another is Global Warming where the facts were in long ago and even the Bush administration has had to hide internal documents as to its validity. It doesn't matter if Glen Beck or Sean Hannity do not believe in it, its a fact. Media ambivalence or not.
The fact the republicans are so close in the polls shows the ineptitude of the country. When 80% of the country believes their on the wrong track and vote for the incumbant party anyway, they deserve to have the country go down the drain, its that simple.
Every time you make fun of the fact she was a small town Mayor, you lose more votes in small towns.
Every time you question her child rearing, you lose the votes of working mothers.
Every time you make fun of her religious beliefs, you drive more evangelicals to the polls.
You guys are really taking the bait on this one. That's was this pick was--bait, and you're taking it.
VC,
No, we realize that McCain just threw a hail mary with his weak arm, that was easily intercepted. We are dancing in the endzone on Nov 4th
Forgot to add-
Every time you question her experience and associations, you bring up Obama's own problems in those areas.
Keep taking the bait, libs.
Actually, VC, I'm loving that I'm actually getting the candidate that I want, and that I've volunteered for, and that I'm making calls for even as this mishmash goes on.
But keep on posting, I'm sure your changing minds here.
Virginia conservative wrote:
Yeah, really. If we're going to talk about Buchanan I'd like to talk about Wright, Ayers, and Rezko, too.
Wright: An ex-Marine. Are you questioning his service?
Ayers: An former Sixties radical who worked with Obama. If someone works with a gay person, does that make them gay? If someone works with an ex-con, does that make them a criminal? If someone works with a conservative, does that make them a conservative? And Ayers was never convicted of anything.
Rezko: Investigated by the Bush DOJ and no wrongdoing was found. Is Bush covering up for Obama these days?
If you have 20 minutes to spare, this audio is really quite interesting. It is Palin's deputy calling an official in the Police Commissioner's office and trying to get them to do more about Wooten. It is mainly after the first 5-6 minutes.
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/audio/FrankBaileyCDaudio.mp3
VC,
Thanks for admitting McCain didn't put country forst with his pick, just like he didn't care about someone ready to be president. The more you spin, the more you step in it and prove McCain and yourself to be frauds and wingnuts!
Funny thing, too, VC, is how much your tone-deaf trolling is so reminiscent of all those last ditch Hillary supporters who we bulldozed in the primaries.
I love the fact that no one is talking about Obama now (Biden who? How's it feel, Joe, to be cast into obscurity?).
You'd think some guys named Gustav and Palin were running for President.
Obama needs publicity the way a fire needs oxygen. I think his flame is dying out just a little and there are some very worried supporters of his out there.
Now if only Mccain had picked Mittens or TPaws. Or Kay Bailey Hutchison.
Where were you all with this advice when McCain needed it?
I'm just laughing cause VC thinks McCain's mind is going...
Yes, Mccain publicity is WTF are you thinking and your owned by the religious right and wingnuts. Thanls for making Obama's job easier.
VC - "Every time you question her child rearing, you lose the votes of working mothers."
absolutely not so. i was very much a working mother w/ small children. and never ever would I have accepted a position requiring so much of my time as this job will, esp when child only 4 mo old. I stayed home for a min 6 mo, and then only 1/2 time. perhaps her thought that since a down's syndrome baby a nannie can care for her alright - but that situation needs more care, not less. fortunately her husband is there to be mr mom.
but, should they make it, this may surely severely damage their marriage. ask any mother and she'll agree. ask her, would she do this?
VC is absoutlely right: the expereice debate does not help Obama. He does not want that to be the focus. Obama-Biden has its expereince problem at the top of the ticket. Ms. palin seems an acceptable risk and brings freshness and balance to the ticket.
Why is Obama the only prodigy? only he can be ready to lead after 144 days in the Senate in whih he did nothing.
You can't be a Goevernor and do nothing.
those of you who are married, w/ kids, do an informal survey - would your wife have done this (let her assume that she is qualified) when the child is only 4 months old?
so I have a question---when will Paulin have her first real interview (not People Mag) with a national journalist one on one to talk about the issues.Again--we are all basing thsi discussion on thin air. No one know anything and everyone is going on and on about how much she is this and that. We.Have.No.Clue.
The last interview she gave about the Surge (Alaska Business Daily) she said she wanted and exit plan and she did not endorse it one way or the other (and this after she said she did not know much about it because she was busy with Alaska stuff). Fair enough but that does not sound like she is on the same page as McCain (which is good to my mind). But the truth is we do not know so until she has one real interview I am going to continue to go by what I see in Alaskan TV.
Instead of pushing talking points why not go volunteer for your candidate or donate blood for the victims of the hurricanes.
Just saying.
Pete Kent,
As usual the hypocrisy goes right over your head. Every news aganecy sees it, even Fox news questioned Mccain on it and he had no answer to explain his flip.
Everyone is forgetting that its not Mrs. Palin's kid, its her daughter Bristol's...
" Everyone is forgetting that its not Mrs. Palin's kid, its her daughter Bristol's..."
WTF? Did you just make the up out of whole cloth?
It is really apparent that there are some Obama campagin plants in here.
It is pretty dubious stuff they are spreading, something no legit news outlet is dealing with.
I guess every candidate has to have their Larry Sinclair.
VC,
Are you clueless that baby scandal is going to blow up.
otf - what is "G5P4 with PROM"
Stevie - how do you figure up the day to day breakdown on Ras?
oh dear, looks as tho sarah is excited about what her vp position will do for alaska ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/cindy-mccain-on-abc-today_b_122759.html
OTF the only thing that "scandal" will do is turn off swing voters if push something so false.
Remember Rathergate? I dare you to try it again.
VC -
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834
Also has top placement on Digg.com...
Who takes an 8 hour flight after their water breaks? Seems like a dangerous thing to do for the life of their child...
Maybe CBS News can write up an MS Word Doc that "proves" she wasn't the mother.
Rathergate II.
Compare Palin's apparent lack of Baby bump with earlier picture showing her pregnant...
http://members.aol.com/gregindel/pregnantpalin.jpg
VC... do try to keep up with the tour group.
The web is full of pictures of Palin NOT looking even slightly pregnant when she was supposed to be 7 months along. Her 16 year old daughter was taken out of high school for 6 months before the baby's birth, suffering from "mono." When the baby was born Palin was travelling in teh lower 48 and suddenly took a jumper flight home because she was "in labor and didn't want to give birth in Texas."
At 44, mind you, and supposedly delivering a high risk infant.
You ever been in labor, VC? (If so, I guarantee you woudl view this story with a jaundiced eye :-)
Photoshopped. As I said this is just another Rathergate that will blow up in your face!
By all means, go for it!
G:Gravity # of pregnancies
P:Parity # of births
PROM-premature ruptures of membranes.
Palin was in Texas her watter broke ans she supposedly gave a 30 minute speech then took a 11hr fight with a Seatlle layover back to AK, then a 45 minute car ride to the hospital to deliver he r baby.
That is outrageous scenario for a potential high risk downs syndrome delivery. A multiparous women dilates at 1.5 to 2 cm per hour...she would have been fully dilated before her flight was over or be in labor arrest. No MD would advise such a patient to make a 11 hr fight in her condition and circumstance.
Filistro-
I don't have the plumbing to be in labor, if you will.
vc - there are obama extremists just as there are mccain extremists -- most of us obama supporters don't give much credence to scandal sheets
will - better to wait and see
Via the moderate VPoice blog:
[Governor Palin’s] oldest girl is rumored to have actually been the one who had the last baby, the one with Down’s Syndrome. She was taken out of school the last 4 or 5 months of her mother’s pregnancy.
On March 5th, 2008 Alaska’s Republican Governor, Sarah Palin, announced to the media that she was 7 months pregnant with her 5th child. She is currently 44.
Palin’s daughter Bristol is 16 and attends an Anchorage high school. Students who have attended class with her report that she has been out of school for months, claiming a prolonged case of mono.
Palin does not appear pregnant in any recent photographs. The announcement came as quite a shock to people who had worked closely with her, and have been quoted as saying that she did not appear pregnant whatsoever during the prior 7 months.
I hope voters will not support a ticket believing creationism is science. Creationism is ignorance. We do not need ignorant leaders. We need leaders who believe in science because science is what will allow US to maintain its competitive edge. We lost some of that edge due to the anti-science Bush.
Will--
You sound almost as stupid as the wingnuts who think Obama is a secret Muslim, or that his middle name is Hussein, or that he was really born in Kenya and isn't a native born American.
God, this is dumb. I thought the left was supposed to be smart?
Compare the photo I linked to above with this video in which Palin is supposedly 7 1/2 months pregnant:
http://blip.tv/play/mVexs1KCsy8
rhys,
If this election is a referendum on the intelligence of the American electorate, then it's already over, and we both know who wins. It took these people what, 6 years to figure out Bush is a terrible president? Don't hold your breath.
VC,
This baby situation is shady like it or not. As I stated the scenario od her trip back from TX to AK is outrageous.
Anyone else getting really sick of the Geico caveman? Not just as a commercial but as a homosapien? The one where he's on the beach and his girlfriends all getting naked and he sees a banner fly over and it's like I'm out of here.
Really? Dude. Priorities. And the Billy Jean King commercial makes no sense. Why does it take until the third set for him to A.) Know that he's losing B.) See that Geico is the sponsor? Highly unlikely?
Unlce Toby-
Two commercials I'd give anything never to see again:
1)GEICO commercials (all of them)
2)Freecreditreport.com commercials
Its not a big deal for McCain's campaign until the MSM picks it up (which they will). Everyone loves a good scandal.
To VC:
PROVE that its not true.
...God how I've wanted to say that for the past few months.
Its not a big deal for McCain's campaign until the MSM picks it up (which they will). Everyone loves a good scandal.
To VC:
PROVE that its not true.
...God how I've wanted to say that for the past few months.
OTF-
The press a'int touching that with a ten foot poll. Sorry.
Well, all she has to do is come clean, say "boo hoo, I was only trying to protect my daughter like any good mommy would, boo hoo" and all the media types and hypocrites on the right will lap it up.
What a circus.
Its not that I have a personal problem with Palin, just her wacko idea that my girlfriend shouldn't be able to take the pill.
She should keep her wingnut hands off my girlfriend's body.
That's your prayer b/c anybody with medical knowledge seeing the intial report knows it's ridiculous. The press will be on it guaranteed.
Which medical report, otf?
On the other hand, the "baby-is-really-a-grandchild" story explains how she would be prepared, with a 4 month old special-needs baby, to embark on a 2 month stint of full-time campaigning. Before, I just couldn't wrap my mind around that idea.
This, to me, is a logical and satisfying explanation of a behavior I previously found inexplicable.
Also cuts to the heart of her character.
In an age where 'Juno' is a blockbuster, an honest leader would expect her daughter to own up to the consequences of her actions.
Why have abortions gone up during GWB's administration? Abstinence only sex-ed.
Didn't say medical report the report of the story of her making a 30 minute speech with PROM as a G5P4 and taking that long trip with a high risk delivery.
Those damn Free Credit Report things get so deeply into my head it's nuts. I want them out. They used to make me laugh though...now not so much.
The one about living in his girlfriend's basement just seems mean.
The MSM isn't touching this.
Even if KO attempts to touch it he will go the way or Rather when it turns out not to be true.
Juno or Juneau
VC,
Keep wishing, this is blowing up within weeks.
otf-
Yeah, just like the Obama birth certificate "story". Yawn. It's about as fringe as that. You must really be scared of Palin.
Yeah, really. If we're going to talk about Buchanan I'd like to talk about Wright, Ayers, and Rezko, too.
Agreed.
I think we should just wait until November to see what happens instead of speculating liberal theories.
From one Obama supporter to all others, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET THIS BABY NONSENSE GO!
You all sound as wacky as those rightwingers who think Obama falsified his birth certificate. This kind of crap helps nobody.
VC,
Nobody is scared of Palin, just enjoy showing the religious right as the lying hypocrites that they always are.
For Chrissakes, this isn't even on Daily Kos!
Apparently Palin had the child in a remote hospital in Wassaic - the town she was mayor of and left $18 million in debt - rather than at a larger hospital in Juneau.
compare Palin supposedly at 8 months:
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/307-3504041.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg
with Palin pregnant with one of her younger children:
http://members.aol.com/gregindel/pregnantpalin.jpg
rhys wrote:
Well, all she has to do is come clean, say "boo hoo, I was only trying to protect my daughter like any good mommy would, boo hoo" and all the media types and hypocrites on the right will lap it up
Exactly right, but why didn't McCain's vetting pick this up and neutralise it in advance?
Well...there was no vetting, that's why.
The MSM doesn't have to pick this up. The tabloids will, though, and the type of non-Republicans Palin is supposed to appeal to will definitely be reading those. Even better if nothing is proven, because gossip and speculation will achieve the same end, or worse. We know how much women hate baby gossip, after all. The Obama campaign doesn't even have to touch this - just let the tabloids do all of the work and take all of the heat.
And forging a birth certificate is a felony, but good luck getting it prosecuted in Republican-run state. More fodder for the mill.
Live by the smear, die by the smear.
I'm not approving of this by any means, just outlining how it would likely play out.
VC - its at the top of digg right now.
and diary's are already working their way up KOS.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223
Remember, McCain only spoke to her twice before choosing her. His vetting team never got a shot at her.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223
"For Chrissakes, this isn't even on Daily Kos!"
LOL, I love watching right-wing hypocrites *squirm*!
I yearn for the moment 2 weeks from now when no one on either side cares in the slightest who the VP candidates are.
"Exactly right, but why didn't McCain's vetting pick this up and neutralise it in advance?
Well...there was no vetting, that's why."
Oh, I agree. McCain deserves what he's about to get, 100%.
Better he make stupid risky gambles and pay the price with his campaign than with our country.
We should also add Phil Graham, Hagee, Keating, and G. Gordon Liddy to the list if people to talk about eh?
BTW, McCain's first pick for VP was Joe Lieberman. Too bad he sold out his maverick status to the right wing of his party for the purely political Palin pick. Joe or Tom Ridge would of at least shown some intestinal fortitide.
todd dungdale -
"Live by the smear, die by the smear"
It sux to get a taste of your own medicine, doesn't it?
Buchanan discussed this on MSNBC. He described her as a "pitchfork" person meaning she joined after his anti-gay, anti-woman positions were well known and he had spoken openly of them.
She is a true conservative nutball with no qualifications. Her mother in law just came out against her (see the New York Post). When she gets vetted, McCain loses.
McCain did extensive vetting. You don't have to meet someone several times to vet them.
Wouldn't this have broken in the Alaska press before?
I dare Keith Olbermann to start reporting on this. I want to watch his career go down the toilet like Rather.
Do ANY of you remember what happened with Rathergate?
Best thing is, Kos doesn't have to push this. It'll work its way up the message boards, to the blogs, to the podcasts and finally we'll be hearing about it in the MSM.
Unless Palin comes clean before hand. Which would be fine by me.
The only way you break rumors is by confronting them. I'm guessing a paternity test, at the least. By which time low-info voters will have heard all they need to.
Will-
Did you ever think about what happens if she takes a paternity test and it turns out you guys were wrong? Obama sinks and the Democrats and media look like they were picking on the poor mother of a disabled baby. BIG downside to this, pal.
The funny thing is that I'm sure some tabloid is already trying to get DNA from them. It's so easy to do. The National Inquirer already embarrassed the MSM on the Edwards thing, they will take this seriously as not to be shown up again.
Remember, the Enquirer broke Edwards. They'll break Palin just as easily.
"McCain did extensive vetting."
What's so funny about Republitards is how they can stand there in the middle of a storm, with lightning flashing and thunder booming, and rain pouring in rivulets down their faces, and still turn to you and say with a straight face: "It's not raining."
VC -
DNC and Obama don't have to touch this.
Same way McCain had nothing to do with the publication of lie-peddling "Obamanation."
Nate, I live in Casper, Wyoming and I was wondering if you can compute Palin's impact on the western states vote. Her selection has set off an explosive reaction out here in the west - she fits the strong, independent, liberatrian, brand for women. Gun toting, snowmobile driving, fishing, hunting, Mom of 5, co-owns a commerical fishing business, former union member with husband in a union - WOW!
Obama sure spent a wasted night in Billings, Montana before his convention - he has zero chance of winnng there now. I believe this puts Colorado and Nevada clearly out of reach for Obama due to Palin's pull in the rural portions of each state and evangelical background. Looks like a clean sweep of the west for McCain from this one decision - puts Obama behind the eight-ball, wouldn't ya say?
P.S. forget about North Carolina too.
Let's look at both VP selections from the perspective of each campaign for a second...
Obama's internal polling most likely showed two serious weaknesses...his inexperience vis-a-vis McCain and his inability to win over moderate and even some left of center senior citizens (especially Hillary's base of older women). Obama selected Biden to compensate for the inexperience question and show those senior citizens that he understands their needs (Biden is strong on foreign policy, Social Security, and reassures them on these issues since he is one of them).
Obama's internal polls, contrary to the public polling we've actually seen, showed a little bounce, which would only be secured if Hillary got behind the ticket at the convention (she emphatically did). This is why you don't see the trackers falling off the cliff for Obama after the huge Hillary speech fell out of the tracker polling. Obama received a HUGE bounce in his internals as the party consolidated itself.
McCain's internals showed him drawing close to even before the Democratic convention, and also measured a small bounce for the Biden pick. However, after the strong convention, McCain's campaign managers saw his internals collapsing (he was SURELY down double digits nationwide). This is the reason why we saw Romney and Pawlenty as the Republican VP favorites before the convention. McCain was close at the time, and did not need a risky pick at the time. When McCain's own polling showed him getting crushed, he felt like he needed a gamechanging pick.
Romney and Pawlenty were out because they could not bring him back. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Mike Huckabee, McCain's two best VP picks, were not considered because McCain philosophically disagrees with both of them (and it is rumored he despises KBH, the most qualified Republican woman by far).
McCain desperately wanted to pick Ridge (IMO a very solid pick had he made it), who would have threatened Obama/Biden in PA, OH, and MI, but the Repubs were afraid he would lose votes in the South because Ridge is pro-choice. McCain then desperately wanted to pick Lieberman, but polling showed that his base would completely revolt (most of them still think Lieberman is a hardcore Dem).
McCain chose Palin because he needed to shake his campaign up. With this information now known to the general public, it makes the pick look like a shotgun wedding.
will walker wrote:
It sux to get a taste of your own medicine, doesn't it?
"my" own medicine? Please clarify what you mean.
I'm referring to the McCain campaign's continual use of smears for the past several months and pointing out the irony of Palin now potentially becoming the victim of the very smear machine that the Republicans have fed, cared for and relied upon.
And you mis-spelled my last name. I assume it was oversight. If it was intentional it was hardly clever. Have I insulted you previously?
AHahahah. I'm posting this stuff all over the NYT blogs...
VC,
No downside b/c it's not the Obama campaign that will be involved. It will be the media as part of the vetting that all undergo on the national scene.
All -
I've read most of the comments about cell phone only users skewing the polling. Therefore, I googled and found that cell phone only users make up approximately 14% of the population. However, only 58% of those are registered to vote compared to landline users at 76%. The demographic break down: 63% are Democrate; 31% are Republican; and 6% are other. The intention to vote of landline users - 86% compared to cell phone users - 77%. Cell phone party affilation: 61% Obama; 32% McCain; and 7% other. This does not bode well for Obama.
This information must be taken with a grain of salt because of the small sample size - 94, and possible location of information - pewresearch.org.
If someone knows of better sample size and reliable stats site, then, please respond. This would improve the statistical model thus improving the information we are seeing.
No you doofus. McCain/Palin gets massive sympathy bounce if it is untrue and the MSM pushes it.
Do you remember what happened in Rathergate, will?
I hate this kind of apologetics, but it is an important and easily missed fact, that the "average 6 points bounce" is based almost entirely on Gallup data. To compare apples to apples, we need to compare Obama's bounce to the historical GALLUP bounce. I am sure Gallup will do this soon and this, for once, it will be important to learn from them.
The point is seriously methodological: Rasmussen's Party ID is a very effective method for discounting bounces (which is why it is useful in the first place). Gallup is specifically tuned to pick up the size of ephemeral bounces.
Wow, a scandal about Sarah Palin not being the mother of the last child. I look at it two ways, If true it is REALLY stupid of Sarah to attempt fooling the public and the truth will come out, from the nurses or doctors or whatever. But I look on the bright side -- it is not true and made up by some left wing nuts and repeated by democratic bloggers -- that is REALLY good -- Please keep on repeating the slander. I am sure it will help Obama
todd dugdale said...
will walker wrote:
It sux to get a taste of your own medicine, doesn't it?
"my" own medicine? Please clarify what you mean.
My apologies, Mr. Dugdale. It take a quick pen to keep up with Virginia Conservative. I quoted you because I agreed with your sentiment.
Its been frustrating for the last year watching every slur thrown around about Obama. I felt that you vocalized that feeling eloquently.
However, only 58% of those are registered to vote compared to landline users at 76%.
Depends upon when the survey was. huge numbers of voters have been registered this year.
I find the pictures to be pretty compelling evidence.
Hey VirgCon:
You say the MSM loves Sarah "Monica Goodling II" Palin. Here's an extremely long list of op-eds to answer that claim:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/the-backlash-cometh-msm-opeds.php
Newspaper boards are bastions of liberal leftist thought. I mean the broadcast MSM.
Also, newspapers are rapidly losing circulation. They mean nothing and they know it.
Hey Will Walker-
Did you find Bush's national guard "memo" that was really forged by a Democrat hack on MS Word to be compelling in 2004? I bet you did.
re: walter m.-
Would be nice if we could get a larger, and geographically specific, sample.
So, is it true ???
"Alaskan Governor's child may be her daughter's ?"
Seems like it is everywhere on the web now...
here is one link @: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834
sure sounds like she is covering for her daughter... especially since she never showed a baby bump !!!
My God, do any of you remember what happened in Rathergate?
Does the left every learn ANYTHING?
I agree that the 5th child rumor is an intentional attempt at Rathergate Redux.
This kind of trickery is all the Republicans have to run on. If it works, this country is really screwed.
On the optimistic side, if it could be documented that the rumor was started by Rove's Rubes it could be a reverse Rathergate.
John McCain: Sarah Palin:: J. Howard Marshall: Anna Nicole Smith
At least obsessed has some brains.
The rest of you idiots take the bait.
obsessed,
No, see, that's not how it works. You see, if the media runs something untrue against the GOP, it turns into a scandal and people have to be fired. If the media runs something untrue in favor of the GOP (like, say, editing McCain's answers in a CBS interview so that he answers a different question because the answer he gave was wrong) then nothing happens and nobody cares.
Oh, but the media's still liberal. And that makes perfect sense.
VC -
Those pictures weren't faked.
Also, most airlines wont fly with extremely pregnant women without a doctor's note, because of the possibility that it will require an emergency landing.
Supposedly, she was in labor during the 8 hour flight, and the crew and attendants did not know.
http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/apr/22/palins-flight-labor-falls-under-scrutiny/
(Quote from the Article Above):
"Governor Palin was extremely pleasant to flight attendants and her pregnancy was not apparent by observation as she didn't show any signs of distress," Boren said."
"First as Governor the firing was within her prerogative."
Not if it was based on a personal conflict of interest, using the power of her office to further the interests of a relative.
"Second, the guy who was fired was not doing his job."
Do you have evidence of this, Pete? I'm curious as to what Palin's explanation is for firing
Monagan. How exactly, was he not doing his job?
I could understand if she had fired him soon after taking office because she wanted to go in a different direction, etc. But what is the explanation for sacking him in July, 2008? It clearly would have to be performance-related. What was deficient about his job performance?
So as a way of summary:
Obama gets a better than average convention bounce.
Palin generates a typical VP bounce, which was much better than Biden's non-existant bounce.
Right now it's a wash or slight advantage McCain in the exchange. We will see what the convention does.
Oh and this stuff about Convention bounces fading is pure hogwash.
1992--Pre convention Clinton was third, post convention he never looked back
1996--Per convention Clinton +3, post convention double digits which never faded
2004--Bush's convention bounce did not fade until he was undressed in the debates.
The beauty of the Rathergate ruse is that while the smoke was false, the fire was very real. George Bush is a coward and flake who skipped out on his military commitment and then had used his privileged connections to cover his tracks.
Virg- your whole world is a fraud.
walter m wrote:
If someone knows of better sample size and reliable stats site, then, please respond. This would improve the statistical model thus improving the information we are seeing.
Nate covered this study about a month ago and concluded it was very ambiguous. If there had been any new studies done along these lines, I feel that he would have encountered them and posted on it.
Gallup uses cellphone data in their surveys, though.
humanist wrote:
To compare apples to apples, we need to compare Obama's bounce to the historical GALLUP bounce.
But would it really be "apples to apples"? Is the 2004 election (or the 2000 election, for that matter) really comparable to the situation we find ourselves facing today?
I would say it isn't, but your mileage may vary.
"McCain is coming off looking very good and Presidential during this hurricane."
Er, no, McCain is looking like the definition of carpetbagger. Republican politicians who came to the South for political or financial advantage.
Since this is a serious quantitative, indeed a probabilistic point, I stoop to discuss briefly that silly rumor.
Consider the probabilties for Down syndrome given the age of the mother. It is about 40 times more probable for a 44 year old than for a 16 year old.
Thus the base probability for the rumor being true is extremely low.
Palin is also getting scrutiny already on her bridge to nowhere claim. She flipped on it. She was all for it in her Governor campaign and only changed when it became a national disgrace and AK would have to pay for it if it continued. There are quotes out there too to prove it.
The media will vett her b/c McCain did little of it.
Nate, may your web site rest in pieces.
The pregnancy question is not new, it has been going on in AK since before she gave 'birth'.
Even her staff refused to believe she was preganant since she never showed & did not change her activities or schedule.
Even the MSM in AK has been covering it, but did not want to break the story because of the daughter. Now Palin drags her daughter into the light for the entire world to mock ? very sad... but such a hypocrite, and shows how McCain did no vetting of this candidate - plus she is about to be deposed for the 'troopergate' abuse of power & improper influence charges which are legitimate.
Palin did the exact sma thing to the police chief of Wasilla right after she became mayor, so she has a history of vindictive actions. Plus she calls herself a reformer when really she was a turn-coat/opportunist only. And the Anchorage paper has even published editorials that she is not qualified...
here is one @: http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/510703.html
First,
I expect the whole fake pregnancy thing to be internet noise, unless something fishy comes out when Palin submits her medical records for review.
I think Gustav throwing the convention out of whack for the GOP hurts McCain in finally shoring up his base, despite the blogger chatter about the pick.
Hillary's wedenesday speech probably brought 90% of the PUMAS/diehards back in the fold, the rest of which will split McCain, stay home or third party.
Troopergate will effect Palin if the state finds that she improperly used her office, even if she was using it for the right reasons. The report is due at the end of October.
The Wright, Ayers, Rezko affairs have more or less been settled. Obama probably took as much damage as he was going to in March-April with Wright. The Ayers thing is similar, IMHO, to the photo of John Kerry with Jane Fonda. For the portion of the poputlation who still seethes over the turmoil of the sixties, its important, but they are not swing voters.
The long story short, while these things can cause people concern, Obama had the foresight enough to avoid getting to close to any of these clowns, even wright. You can keep a moderate view of things even if your pastor can get extreme.
Millions of Americans do it ever sunday or what have you.
rich - it's always like this late in the afternoon - they get to frothing at the mouth
will - you're making us liberals look bad. wait on it and don't spew. public records mean hospital records, depositions, etc - not assumptions. true, the allegations are believable, and explanable - but we just don't have the facts. calm down buddy
National Enquirer is all over Palin's "supposed" pregnancy:
http://www.mediatakeout.com/2008/26264-stunning_rumor_mccains_vp_choice_may_have_hid_daughters_pregnancy__claimed_the_baby_as_her_own_.html
After they broke Edwards, I'm guessing at least a few papers take a look.
Mission Accomplished!
McCain: "I pledge that as tomorrow night, and if necessary, throughout our convention we will act as Americans not as Republicans..."
Ah, if only they could act as Americans all the time.
Kicking around rumors is what Sunday afternoons were made for.
I'm just happy to see the tabloids pick it up.
anthony wrote:
I expect the whole fake pregnancy thing to be internet noise, unless something fishy comes out when Palin submits her medical records for review.
I think you are correct. For my part, I was just speculating on the consequences and the way the smear might play out.
Democrats have to stay far, far away from this. The tabloids are paid to investigate this kind of thing. Let it blow up in their faces, not ours. They are used to it. Too much is at stake, and the smears employed against Obama have not gained any serious traction, nor are likely to at this advanced stage. Aside from "gotcha" value, there is little to be gained from this in the big picture. Palin will make herself look bad on her own, and everyone will feel so much more clever if they realise it on their own rather than having us beat them over the head with it.
Todd -
I agree with you, now that the Tabloids have hold of it.
OTOH, the expository diary is getting rec'ed on Kos.
Palin drags her daughter into the light for the entire world to mock
there's the sad thing - truth aside, this 16 year old is not prepared for this kind of limelight - and I suspect her mother didn't realize how nasty the national spotlight could get.
This election will come down to if Obama can win CO and/or VA. Obama is in good position to hold the Kerry states (no - PA, MI, MN, WI will not break GOP this year given the current political environment and the economy). IA and NM are strongly leaning Dem. CO and VA, while tight in the polls, are still GOP leaning states. These 2 states will truly be battleground in nature.
What tabloids? I'm looking at the National Enquirer site now. Nothing on it.
You're desperate. Sad.
The probability that Trig is Bristol's baby is equal to the probability that Bristol got knocked up. Literally---the conditional probability P(Coverup|TeenPreggo) is 1.00.
Trust me, I grew up in this community. The only thing Evangelicals care about is appearance, and they will lie 8 ways to Sunday to keep up their facade.
That said, anybody who supports an Evangelical in the first place is rotten to their very DNA, and no amount of exposed lies will change their support.
"
That said, anybody who supports an Evangelical in the first place is rotten to their very DNA, and no amount of exposed lies will change their support."
Bullshit. If this story has legs I'll be the first to say she should be dropped ASAP and replaced with T-Paw.
But it doesn't.
there's the sad thing - truth aside, this 16 year old is not prepared for this kind of limelight - and I suspect her mother didn't realize how nasty the national spotlight could get.
If true, it was a stupid ploy.
I'm sympathetic, but this all screams that Palin is a lightweight who is out of her depth. But I blame McCain's campaign. They should have known about this, and if they did then they were very irresponsible to risk Palin's family on such a long-shot gamble. Even if it was untrue, it should have been discussed beforehand so it could be part of Palin's decision-making process.
I also sympathise with Obama's family and all of the smears they have had to endure over nothing. It didn't need to happen. It must be painful for his children to have so many people telling lies about him for so long.
I'll believe it when I see it.
I mean, let's get this straight...you don't care that Palin thinks Bronze Age myths overrule scientific consensus.
But you do care if Palin covered up her daughter's pregnancy on behalf of those same Bronze Age myths?
WTF? In your mind it's more acceptable to spit in the face of modern science than it is to protect your child from the phenomenally bitter backlash of the Evangelical virginity cult?
What tabloids? I'm looking at the National Enquirer site now. Nothing on it.
Alaskan journalists say that National Enquirer stooges have been investigating this for a few days now.
Do you think they would report on Bigfoot, the Chupacabra, and Edwards, but pass this up?
If they don't, it's not important. That is the thing about smears; they don't have to be true, they just have to sound true.
If she did not give birth and the daughter did, I'm sure someone will tell.
I think that she says she got on an airplane for a very long flight after her water broke is a real story. What kind of mother does that? Is she really that stupid?
I like it that McCain seems to safely hold the mode of the EV distribution every time I check. Now I can mislead family and friends by saying that "a McCain victory is the most probable outcome".
Now I can mislead family and friends by saying that "a McCain victory is the most probable outcome".
Well, not really.
You could say that the single most likely specific Electoral College outcome results in a McCain victory.
A McCain victory is still 45.6% likely, as per Nate's figures.
VC is up to his lies again:
He cited a source saying that that site had debunked the idea that Palin had suported Pat Buchanan in 1996. Here's the url, decide for yourself whether anything thre is a debunking of that. http://blogs.abcnews.com/
Here's a quote from that piece:
The evidence is the following, as first noticed by "The Nation": in an Associated Press story from July 17, 1999, titled, "Buchanan takes conservative message to Fairbanks."
"Pat Buchanan brought his conservative message of a smaller government and an America First foreign policy to Fairbanks and Wasilla on Friday as he continued a campaign swing through Alaska….In Wasilla, Buchanan took some shots at the "Republican establishment," saying it was willing to cast aside conservative ideals in a zeal to ensure the nomination for Bush. 'I'm hoping the people of Alaska will disagree that we need a candidate anointed by Washington, D.C.,' he said to a group of three dozen supporters. Among those sporting Buchanan buttons were Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin and state Sen. Jerry Ward, R-Anchorage."
Palin wrote to the AP that her presence at the rally and her wearing a Buchanan button were merely ways to welcome Buchanan to Wasilla, not endorsements of his candidacy.
But that's not quite how Buchanan remembers it.
Buchanan told Chris Matthews yesterday that Palin "was a brigader in 1996 as was her husband, Chris, they were at a fundraiser for me, she's a terrific gal, she's a rebel reformer."
*****************
Her support of Pat will go over real well with Jewish voters in Florida. They just love people who endorse anti-Semites. [BTW, that's not just me calling him an anti-Semite - the National Review did - they took the better part of one issue to examine that issue in detail] Probably just raised a few million for the Obama campaign.
And, if Buchanan support gets demonstrated, her little miss clean image goes out the window as she would be revealed as just another politician telling lies trying to get elected.
To those of you who are drooling about a supposed scandal because Palin's fifth child might not "be" hers and instead,her aughters.
STFU
I think the Palin chice is an insult to the Aermican electorate, but if a parent won't push the envelop to do what (s)he thinks necessary to protect the kid, (s)he's not worth much as a parent.
It's not that I think that having a baby out of wedlock is a big deal, but if Sarah Palin 's daughter thought that it was, tht's what counts.
There is enough real shit to dump on her without weakening the case by speculating about something which might not be true and is largely irrelevant even if it were true.
but if a parent won't push the envelop to do what (s)he thinks necessary to protect the kid, (s)he's not worth much as a parent.
Why lie about it? It's incredibly virtuous to do it, so why not openly admit "Yes, I'm raising my daughter's child as my own."
It's the Edwards all over again. They thought they could keep a family secret and still run for national office. You cannot. It's the reason there's such a thing as vetting.
judas priest wrote:
It's not that I think that having a baby out of wedlock is a big deal, but if Sarah Palin's daughter thought that it was, that's what counts.
But are those the rules that are being played by in the Edwards affair? As always, it is not the thing you are covering up that does you in, it's the cover-up itself. Nixon's bugging of the Democratic HQ, for example, comes to mind.
Regardless, the story is already out there. The damage increases the longer it hangs out there and remains un-countered. That's how gossip works. Disproving it actually adds to the story's credibility, because you took it seriously enough to address it.
Is it fair to attack Rev. Wright and his congregation for something out of context? Is it anyone's business where Obama worships other than his family? Wasn't there enough policy material out there to contest without dragging an ex-marine into the national spotlight and impugning his patriotism?
But all of this is beside the point. If the McCain campaign willingly conspired to conceal this story, then they exercised poor judgement.
McCain is willing to benefit from the smears in "Obamanation", while pretending his hands are clean, and I despise that. It lacks honour and integrity.
Judas-
Get off thehigh horse, it dies back when you swift boated Kerry and got Clinton sued in civilsuit for the first time in American history.
She is lying, it is on an issue important to the base the McCan't brought her in for. If it is proven th race is over. Bush is using threats in AK right now to keep a lid on it and Cheney is threatening Guatnamo. It might work. Bush is like Putin, and Putin sure has control.
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