There is a lot of nervous buzz today about the national tracking polls. Gallup now gives John McCain a 2-point lead, the first time he has had an advantage of any amount since late May. Rasmussen, meanwhile, has the race converging back into a tie, after having shown Barack Obama ahead by 3 points yesterday.
This tracking polling will NOT reflect any convention bounce (or its absence). These polling firms concluded their interviews by mid-evening, before Michelle Obama's speech and before network coverage of the convention began. So if there is a response to the events of Monday night, it will show up in the field on Tuesday, which means that it will be reflected in polls released on Wednesday. Moreover, our research has concluded that there typically is not any bounce until the third day of the convention. As such, this polling tells us nothing at all about the convention so far, and it probably won't tell us a whole lot until at least Thursday or Friday.
It might tell us something about Joe Biden. I tend to agree with the conventional wisdom that there was liable to be a bit of a near-term backlash whenever Obama announced his VP choice, provided that the VP was not Hillary Clinton. The key phrase in there, however, is "near-term". If Hillary is able to rally her supporters to the Obama-Biden ticket tonight, there could still be a latent/lagged VP bounce for Obama that gets rolled up into his convention bounce.
Besides all that, we also have a number of state polls today which generally look pretty decent for Obama.
Yep, Quinnipiac released its "big three" swing state polling this morning. The results are literally identical to last month in Pennsylvania, where Obama leads by the same 49-42 margin, and essentially identical in Ohio, where Obama's lead is down from 2 points to 1 (although with undecided and Bob Barr improving). The difference is in Florida, which swung from a 2-point Obama lead to a 4-point deficit. Obama's investment in the air wars in Florida does not appear to paying immediate benefits. Still, this result is about where other polling firms had shown Florida, as Quinnipiac had been a modest outlier before. And that Obama's lead is holding relatively steady in Pennsyvalnia should reassure his supporters.
There is also polling out in North Carolina (PPP) and Texas (Rasmussen), which shows North Carolina and Texas at the same margins they have been polling at since antiquity, with McCain holding a 10-point lead among Texans and a 3-point lead among Tarheels.
EDIT: To clarify one thing: how can I imply that some of these state polls are good for Obama when they show his numbers -- at best -- holding steady? Because they beat the model's expectations. Our model had already anticipated about a 2.5-point decline for Obama since the last time these Quinnipiac polls were in the field in late July, and that decline was already priced in to our numbers. That turned out to be prescient in Florida, where his numbers slipped by 6 points. But Obama polled somewhat more strongly than anticipated in both Pennsylvania and Ohio.
8.26.2008
Today's Polls, 8/26
by Nate Silver @ 5:58 PM...see also florida, north carolina, ohio, pennsylvania, quinnipiac, texas, today's polls
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)

155 comments
Thank God you finally showed up Nate. I was wondering where you'd been hiding.
Can't believe you're showing such a shift back to Obama, but it is what it is.
In any event, you are a wanker.
It's hard to say these polls were net-net good for Obama just because the severe erosion was limited to one swing state.
This tracking polling will NOT reflect any convention bounce (or its absence). These polling firms conclude their interviews by mid-evening, before Michelle Obama's speech and before network coverage of the convention began. So if there is a response to the events of Monday night, it will show up in the field on Tuesday, which means that it will be reflected in polls released on Wednesday. Moreover, our research has concluded that there typically is not any bounce until the third day of the convention. As such, this polling tells us nothing at all about the convention so far.
This should serve as a test to weed out those who don't read the fabulous article. Also, I agree with the VP assessment in the next paragraph.
MR-
Right on time, douche.
Hey, where'd my "Rider" go?
John McCain has finally managed to take a lead in ONE poll out of the last 1000. Congrats to McCain for trying to make it a game. I thought he might actually sleep through the entire general election.
I'm rather amused that someone with so poor an opinion of Nate and his work is so often the first post in his threads. One would think he would find sites whose work he respects more.
I don't expect anything but noise until after Obama actually speaks and that has had time to sink in.
Michelle, The Liberal Lion, et al are just the supporting cast. It's going to come down to what the neophyte from Chicago can show of himself on the most grandiose stage yet of his campaign.
Until then, it's just the calm before the storm.
Nate,
It's Tar Heels (two words).
As the story goes, the evil king Minos had imprisoned Daedalus and Icarus in a tower on the island of Crete....
As an avid Obama supporter (athletic), I am deeply worried and concerned.
Turn out the lights..
Turn out the lights...
PPP also shows Hagan taking a slight lead over Dole.
Nate, hope you are having fun out there...Carville has joined the attack today which tells me Hillary will be good tonite!
The general tone on the blogosphere and CNN and their interviews is that Unity is happening or will Thursday nite...
The poll you did not mention is the Hotline one which showed a 2 pt Biden impact. Not sure if this real or not but seems like the only one that it is isolate so far.
Finally PPP has 69% Dem base and OH is at 75% so the 'Base" bounce I keep talking about is there to be had if Unity can roll out of Denver..
Adam,
Don't get my "wanker-bombs" confused with disrespect for Nate. Or his work anyway. I think he does a really good job, numbers-wise...for the most part.
Some of his dalliances into innocuous partisan drivel and his overall leaning do cause me to be a bit of a critic, but I do respect what he does here.
I don't expect anything but noise until after Obama actually speaks and that has had time to sink in.
Until then, it's just the calm before the storm.
Holy prattling politicians, Batman!
An MR post that I agree with, and that agrees (mostly) with what Nate is saying. Maybe there really is nothing to see here for a few days.
People are expecting M. Warner to be an attack dog tonight.
Big mistake. He won't be. He can't afford it. He will be nicey-nice bipartisan, and the Democrat base will be up in arms over it.
Interesting that NC was shown closer than FL. But I suppose it reinforces the current projection in both states to be between 3 and 4 points in favor of McCain. Still, a year ago I never would have guessed North Carolina and Florida would have been so close to one another.
Also interesting to see how much of a difference a few polls in Ohio can make to the projections...but there you are, the quintessential swing state.
VC-
Warner is the keynote, but there's someone speaking after him isn't there?
..........the party's over...
If there's no bounce by Friday or Saturday, it's McCain by 7-8% on November 4.
This might be another problem:
"He is a little like Adlai Stevenson," Rendell mused. "You ask him a question, and he gives you a six-minute answer. And the six-minute answer is smart as all get out. It's intellectual. It's well framed. It takes care of all the contingencies. But it's a lousy soundbite."
Yeah but even Begala and Carville are telling him that he can't speak like "hes speaking to the Richmond Chamber of Commerce".
Breaking now: Early copy of Obama convention speech:
"Hope & Change, Change & Hope, Hope & Change, Change & Hope."
We are the ones we have been waiting for.
I am Barack America. Meet my President....I mean Vice president, Plugs Biden.
A poll from one corner of Colorado.
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=1ccadc3d-8b8d-43b3-a671-939370c87ca3
SUSA polled Colorado's 4th Cong District. McCain leads Obama 48-46 in the 4th CD (In 2004 Bush beat Kerry 58-41 in the 4th).
BTW the poll also shows Dem Betsy Markey beating incumbent Rep Marylin Musgrave 50-43
Who listens to those guys anyway?
Begala? You mean the guy who didn't stick up for himself when a commedian was telling him he was hurting America? At least Carlson fought back a little.
You lost all credibilit when you started incorporating 'house weight' when the overall polls started looking bad for Obama.
"Who listens to those guys anyway?"
Well, the only two term Democrat President since Franklin Roosevelt, for one.
jack-be-nimble,
I'm guessing we'll also hear something about how the "stakes are so high"...
VC-
Right. And they've been fighting the same battle since the only two term Democrat President since Franklin Roosevelt left office, and look what it's got the Democratic party. They're like old ball players who's time has gone so instead of fading away they find a place in the broadcast booth.
NATE:
Is it easy to add a column in the poll detail that would show each poll's trend-adjustment for that day.
That way, when we see a new poll come out, we can compare it to the previous ones for ourselves.
Otherwise, can you put a second supertracker graph up with only a 2-month range so we can see the trend numbers in finer detail?
I can't say I care about Warner. We all know who the real keynote speaker today is.
Back to whatI consider the real news:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=SimpleSite/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1219572127672
OK, sure, it would be a hell of a shot to actually hit Obama from the top of a building 1/4 to 1/2 a mile away. But when you're talking about a stadium filled to capacity, odds are that you'll hit somebody if you pop off a magazine. The panic would have been pretty extreme, and a lot of people would have been hurt.
Most of these polls were conducted a day before the VP announcement. It'll be intereseing to see what happens now, especially in FL and OH.
Serious question... is there a mirror-image of this site anywhere?
By that I mean an informative right-leaning site where the resident rightwing commenters are generally smart and thoughtful, and the visting lefties sound like a bunch of ignorant teenagers.
If anybody knows of one could you give me a link?
Thanks.
I'm not sure you could even hit inside the stadium 1/2 a mile away. You'd probably be caught by police before you even fired a shot off.
It's not every day you see someone carrying around a sniper rifle on the streets of Denver. Especially if the guy looks like hes hopped up on methamphetamines.
Electoral Vote Baselines:
Obama - 260
McCain - 176
Electoral Votes Needed:
Obama - 10
McCain 94
Battleground States:
Kerry - 1
Bush - 9
Republicans have a lot of ground to defend, and not a lot to gain leaving them on defense while the Democrats can take to offense.
filstro,
Here's your link:
[reality]
Did you click on it. Well, if so, it's not going to work. You have to go outside, get involved with everyday people, and you'll see that it's only on here that left-wingers seem smart and conservatives are brainless oafs.
In reality-land, the mirror image to 538, conservatives are the ones considered to have intellectual fortitude while liberals are looked upon as the babbling teenagers.
Just gotta get off of your computeer...and your ass...to see for yourself.
I guess I don't really understand how the Biden Backlash will manifest itself only on polling conducted on Monday, having remained silent for two days.
It is spooky that both Gallup and Rasmussen had very bad evenings on Monday. One thought is that we may have had an especially good night on Sunday to mask this. We do not understand quite how the days of the week impact works, but suppose for some reason it would be especially strong this week (the first week of school in many places). This would account for the sharp contrast between Sunday and Monday polling.
Yeah, it seems PA, MI and IA are pretty much off the table to the Republicans. If Obama can take NM and CO, - and the polls say NM is a good bet, and CO will be a sure thing after the Convention - he's got 273 votes. The rest is just icing on the chocolate cake.
VC-
I'm not sure you could even hit inside the stadium 1/2 a mile away.
If you're above it, it's easy. If you're below it, it becomes harder. Sure you or I could probably pull it off since it's a simple balistic calculation, account for wind, etc....
Unless they planned carefully, they probably couldn't pull off a shot from below.
The only conclusion that can be drawn from the Gallup poll is that Biden as VP is, at best, an underwhelming choice and at worst a slight liability. You now have the two most CURRENTLY prominent Democrats other than Obama having a laundry list of quotes indicating that McCain is the superior candidate.
The state poll results are good for now but there is an ominous sign since none of the OH polls in the last month have Obama above 45%.
"He is a little like Adlai Stevenson," Rendell mused. "You ask him a question, and he gives you a six-minute answer. And the six-minute answer is smart as all get out. It's intellectual. It's well framed. It takes care of all the contingencies. But it's a lousy soundbite."
This reminds me of two anecdotes that have nothing to do with polling but which I'll share anyway. Supposedly, a woman came up to Adlai Stevenson after a campaign stop and gushed, "Gov. Stevenson, surely every intelligent American will vote for you." To which Stevenson supposedly replied, "Unfortunately, ma'am, it requires a majority to be elected President."
The other anecdote is that Bush and Gore were asked a series of questions by some newspaper in 2000, the last of which was, "Do you think that baseball should be played in domes?" Gore's answer ran on for about two paragraphs praising the engineering ingenuity of the Astrodome and the Metrodome in Minnesota and the newer retractable roof stadia. Bush's response was, "I like watching baseball outdoors." That seemed to me to sum up the difference between those two. In retrospect, I wonder if people aren't more willing to give a little more respect to the longer-winded, more intellectual approach to governing.
Ohio vs. Florida:
Please excuse me for my ignorance, but I am always looking for a better understanding of demographics and polling.
Ohio and Florida are two big swing states, but like I said for Colorado vs. Ohio, not quite in the same way. I think the Ohio electorate is smoother in a way...there are a lot of people in between the few cosmopolitan voters and the few rural voters who are going to be voting based on bread and butter issues. I tend to think of Ohioans as a fairly homogeneous group.
On the other hand, with Florida, you have a number of different groups, and there voting patterns don't tend to have anything to do with national trends. You have a lot of retirees, who may be (relatively) culturally conservative, but also are going to be fierce about social security. You have a group of Cubans, who may be allied to the Republican Party as being more anti-Castro, but are not going to be open to the (greatly and thankfully downplayed) xenophobic strain of the Republican party. You have panhandle people, who are going to be pretty similar to Alabama in their voting patterns. And then you have lots of people in the middle---people who have moved to Florida for work, and the like.
All of this is of course well known, although probably people could correct me on specifics.
So, my question is: when they poll, do they break down a state like Florida that is very complex by demographic, and see if their polling sample matches the demographics of the state? Are they getting a good cross-sample of young and old Hispanics, (Cuban and otherwise), of retirees, of people from the panhandle, and of other groups? Because with a polling size of 1069, while it is fairly large, there is still a chance that the jiggling in the polls is just because different demographic groups are being sampled at different rates.
Also, if anyone from Ohio wants to correct me on my view of Ohio as having a relatively homogenous electorate, I am up for learning!
Those are excellent top numbers for Obama in CD 4. The fourth congressional district includes half or more of the eastern plains, all farming country. If Obama has only a 2 point differance in that area McCain has no chance. I wonder if the McCain's water comments are making in roads. Fort Collins has some big water issues at the moment.
Shorter Tomthress:
"If we lose this election, it will be because the American people are a bunch of dumb, stupid, mouth breathing racist hicks who don't understand that we're superior."
I guess I don't really understand how the Biden Backlash will manifest itself only on polling conducted on Monday, having remained silent for two days.
Perhaps it was being masked by the house story? The last day of that (Friday) fell out of the polls today (Tue).
Given that Obama is running such a state, district focused campaign, and that your model and the polls do not take into consideration voter turnout, how can your model be very accurate?
And running with that how would you propose to take into account the actual projected turn out, the ground game effect and the state specific strategy of Obama?
It seems you give an overal weight to national polls and they change overal state projections, should it not be the other way around or did I miss that bit?
Shorter Tomthress:
"If we lose this election, it will be because the American people are a bunch of dumb, stupid, mouth breathing racist hicks who don't understand that we're superior."
That's really not what I meant. I voted for Bush over Gore (and Kerry over Bush). I was just thinking out loud. It just struck me as being a common historical theme of Democrats as being "intellectuals" and Republicans being "regular guys". Historically, "regular guys" tend to get elected over "intellectuals". I was just curious if this would continue to be the case this year.
tomthress,
Interestingly, though, if you go back prior to the 1970s, Democrats were generally considered more like the "regular guys" and Republcians like the "intellectuals."
From a perception-perspective, that is. Just thought I'd throw that out there to suggest the "historical" narrative has morped over time.
I'm just sick of the post mortem from the Democrats always being "We lost cause Americans are stupid/Diebold stole the election!"
When Republicans lose, you notice, the post mortem is "We lost because our opponents ran a better campaign" instead.
VC-
Diebold sucks, but not because they give Republicans elections. They suck because their producs might be used to steal election for the party with the better crackers.
I give you: President Ron Paul.
DAVID
re: your Q about Nate's model
"It seems you give an overal weight to national polls and they change overal state projections, should it not be the other way around or did I miss that bit?"
he explains it in the FAQs [link at top of page]
here are a few brief excerpts:
"Q. Are national polls accounted for?
A. Yes, but only insofar as they are used to inform the trendline adjustment. See Step 2.
...
Q. How does the trendline adjustment work?
A. In plain English, we look at movement in the polling in recently-polled states and in national polls to predict movement in other states. For example, if there are new polls conducted in Massachusetts and Connecticut showing the Democratic candidate gaining 5 points, we can probably also infer that the candidate’s numbers have improved by about 5 points in Rhode Island."
"Just thought I'd throw that out there to suggest the "historical" narrative has morped over time."
Yeah, I probably should have put "historical" in quotes like you did. Bush's greatest strength was his decisiveness, which was, I thought, particularly evident as compared to Gore, and I thought that particular set of answers summed that up well. In retrospect, of course, Bush's greatest weakness was his decisiveness which too often morphed into stubbornness. It's a fine line - the President must lead and be decisive, but he must also be right, of course.
And this is, I think, the resonance of McCain's "celebrity" charge - that Obama talks well, he sees all sides of an issue well, but he's not decisive. Normally, American voters aren't particularly keen on electing Presidents like this (although, of course, Gore hardly or barely "lost" to Bush anyway). Yet, this makes Obama very anti-Bush, I think, which could be appealing in this election.
But I really didn't intend to make a partisan "Americans are stupid" comment (although I am planning to vote for Obama).
Liking the "Wake up, America" speech I'm hearing.
As a Reagan Republican I thought the Joe Biden choice was a good one for Obama (I will be voting for McCain), but I was stunned by the reaction of my three left-wing daughters who were vocally angry over Biden's selection. My wife was none to happy also. I say all of this because all four of my 'girls' were Obama people from the git-go, yet they were deeply disappointed by Biden's selection. They clearly were expecting Hillary or the Gov. of Kansas (whatever her name is). It appears, to my family at least, that the selection of Biden is a bigger problem than dumb guys like me thought. My women are pissed folks!
I haven't come across a single woman who is pissed that Clinton isn't on the ticket.
This sounds promising:
Associated Press
Published: Tuesday August 26, 2008
Former first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton is closing out her history-making 2008 quest for the White House Tuesday with a prime-time appearance tonight at the Democratic National Convention, while party leaders were caught up in curious debate about the wisdom of assailing Republican John McCain from the podium.
Despite lingering unhappiness among some delegates nursing grievances over Clinton's loss, party chairman Howard Dean declared the convention determined to make Barack Obama the nation's first black president. "There is not a unity problem. If anyone doubts that, wait till you see Hillary Clinton's speech," he said.
How does he know?
Hill and Bill aren't sharing their speeches with anyone.
Why are the two tracking polls and CNN showing even or even McCain ahead while the last four other national polls (Fox, Gallup/USA Today, ABC News/Washington Post, Hotline) are all showing Obama up 3-4%? Tracking polls and CNN use new samples every night which mens they oversample people who are home all the time. The others use a single sample with call-backs over several nights, so they don't oversample people who are home all the time. Any profesional poller will tell you that call backs are necessary for reliable polling. The tracking polls and CNN are wrong. Obama is ahead by 3-4% and he has been ahead by that margin for a long time, and you should stop paying attention to tracking polls.
Tito, I don't know any females upset that Clinton isn't the VP choice, either. However, in full disclosure, I live in an area of the country where her unfavorables are very high (trying to word that politically correct).
Minnesota Mike wrote,
"SUSA polled Colorado's 4th Cong District. McCain leads Obama 48-46 in the 4th CD (In 2004 Bush beat Kerry 58-41 in the 4th)."
The 4th is a bizarre district (great for junkies to study). Rep Musgrave is a far right as anyone in Congress. She won the 2006 in a weird three way with a Reform Party candidate that got serious numbers. Its got socialists in Ft Collins and Posse Comitatus Militia (basically Christian Falangists) out east.
I have a extensive Colorado analysis up as the last comment on the 8/25 Polling thread. Probably no one read it there as that was dated.
Bush beat Kerry by 100,000 votes. But the Dems have picked all that up since in net voter registration gains vs. the GOP.
Bush did surprising well in several key Democrat strongholds:
Adams County (Blue Collar and Hispanic) where Bush lost by 3,000
Pueblo (Blue Collar and Hispanic) where Bush lost by 4,000.
Bush underperformed along the I-70 Mountain Corridor as far West as Garfield County. He got pummeled in Summit, losing by 3,000.
Bottom line: Bush held his ground in the traditional GOP counties, except Clear Creek and performed well in the blue collar Hispanic D counties. The Hispanic vote delivered Colorado for Bush, he didn't win it, but he hung in there and fought for it.
Hey mule. I'm over here, bitch.
VCon, I'm certain Hillary's speech will be superb and hit all the right notes.
The risky part will be if some of her supporters indulge themselves in boos and catcalls when Obama is mentioned, because that's the kind of negative drama that the media (and YOU) are wanting to see.
Anything like that would be replayed ad nauseum, and could certainly be divisive.
RIDER
that is not polite to call MULE a [w]itch.
funny, yes - but not polite.
try 'tosser'
Hey Michael, tell them that Biden co-wrote the Violence Against Women Act among other pro-women bills and policies.
My older female boss, who was exceedingly pro-Clinton, and supported Obama after Clinton loss, approved mightly.
Glenn, I saw your detailed CO post at the end of a lower thread and thought it was terrific.
You really should paste it higher up here so more folks see it.
Smitty -
As do I. Unfavorables are very high for Hillary in my neck of the woods, too. But I generally run with a more Democratic crowd, and there were a few female Clinton supporters among them. Seems they had come around by June.
on MSNBC,
Joe Scarborough jusy reported that Chuck Todd considers Gallup Tracker #'s to be garbage.
Apparently Axelrod used a more derogatory word...
What's the increase in the usage of the word "literally" since Biden's VP announcement
FLY
I think it perhaps replaces 'liberally'
Hi, Fly...
One of my biggest pet peeves, usage-wise, is people who say "literally" when they mean "figuratively."
My fave...
"Omigod, like, I literally DIED!"
To which I respond... would that it were so.
merry xmas, nate and chums.
Is that Morning Joe you talks about? He looks like Chandler but he's not as funny. In fact I would go so far as to call him a 'wanker'.
FILISTRO
the proper response should be"that's hot"...
but I share your pain 'literally'
Up with Dennis Kucinich!
"The risky part will be if some of her supporters indulge themselves in boos and catcalls when Obama is mentioned, because that's the kind of negative drama that the media (and YOU) are wanting to see."
Damn right I want to see that. Come on, Hillary supporters! Make your voice heard! You won the popular vote!
PUMA!
Arizona: McCain 45% - Obama 40%
http://www.pollster.com/polls/az/08-az-pres-ge-mvo.php
Does Arizona really dislike McCain that much?
I wonder why McCain's "base" isn't reporting his "Arizona voter problem"? If Obama was only 5 pts ahead in Illinois, you sure as shit would've heard about it by now.
NC Senate: Hagan Leads
Kay Hagan 42
Elizabeth Dole 39
Chris Cole 5
Filistro, aren't you just a LITTLE bit nervous about what kind of stunt Bubba will pull tomorrow?
need to go solo for a while...my "rider" is a bastard...he rides me all day, beating the everliving shit out of me...he is a sorry ass bitch
PorridgeGun
Arizonians say they are finally figuring out McCain was only present 43% of the time and supported special interests in AZ rather than its citizens.
I do not know if their information is accurate. I'm merely passing on their stated reasons for being Obamacans.
I love how Rendell compared The One to two-time loser Adlai Stevenson. He even lost to another war hero!
Here comes Bill..thanks buddy.
Obama should just go on vacation until the debates. The less people see of him the better he does. You can only say hope and change so many times over 4 days...people will tune out. I guess you have to when you're nominee has no record at all. He's not qualified for school board.
VCon, Bubba is the best orator I have ever heard. He's let me down in many ways over the years, and I find him personally disappointing. Okay, being honest, I find him a bit disgusting now. (Reminiscent of Henry VIII in his unfortunate later years.) But he has never let me down when delivering a speech. And I don't expect he will this time, either.
you wouldn't be fit to ---- adlai stevenson's ----, virgy.
Filistro-
I'm sure he'll point out that Jesse Jackson gave a speech to the Democratic Convention twice--in '84, and in '88. And that he ran a good campaign, and Senator Obama will run a good campaign.
In perusing a variety of the other polling sites [which operate off snapshots rather than projection analysis]
I am surprised that the majority of them seem to be trending their Obama EV #'s up this week despite the polling released that some say shows great news for McCain.
Easiest to compare pollsters @
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/
summary:
8/26/08
'Barack Obama Quietly Extending His Electoral College Lead'
Method: Obama - McCain
Latest Poll Per State 294 244
Poll of Polls 283 249
Survey USA 166 262
Rasmussen Reports 264 244
Quinnipiac 158 24
Research 2000 23 95
Zogby 335 131
National Average 44.4% 42.4%
Weighted Nat'l Avg 44.2% 44.0%
"Obama's lead in the poll of polls estimate has gone from 3 electoral votes to 34. And in the latest poll per state estimate, Obama's lead has gone from 32 to 50."
---------------------------------------
FWIW, but most of the pollsters do tend to agree with Nate's projections
ps - GO GET 'EM, RENDELL
That's about the kind of post I'd expect from someone with the screen name "assmole".
Meow.
I'm sure he'll point out that Jesse Jackson gave a speech to the Democratic Convention twice--in '84, and in '88. And that he ran a good campaign, and Senator Obama will run a good campaign.
You might want to lower your expectations a bit VC. Otherwise, you'll probably end up cranky and disappointed like you did today after Michelle O's gaffe-free performance.
That's about the kind of post I'd expect from someone with the screen name "assmole".
Seriously. Get a real name.
By that I mean an informative right-leaning site where the resident rightwing commenters are generally smart and thoughtful, and the visting lefties sound like a bunch of ignorant teenagers.
I think there are thoughtful conservative commenters on 538 (I actually am a right-leaning centrist, and I like to think that my comments are intelligent); they just don't talk about subjective issues like that because they know how likely they are to start a flamewar.
If you just want right-leaning political commentary, you can just check out any of the bigger conservative blogs...
Glenn Beck is a two-bit loony tune.
Hey VCon...I just met a brutal deadline, and I'm taking a few days off. Going to the spa tomorrow, NOT taking a laptop. Won't be back online till the weekend. By that time McCain's VP will have been announced.
So I want to know now... who's your prediction?
CNN, especially Wolf Blitzer, are a bunch of disingenuous scumbags.
All last night they were pissing and moaning about the lack of a clear message, the lack of any attacks on McCain. And yet Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell is right now hammering away at McCain, and Wolf abruptly cuts away to tell viewers, "Rudy Giuliani...A Republican. He's here...At the Democratic convention. We're gonna be talking to him next."
CNN have really exposed themselves this week, probably more than they intended to. It began on Sunday, and it's just carried on since then. They may as well let that fucktard Glenn Beck present the coverage. Unbelievable.
Safe Pick: Romney
Surprise Pick: Palin
Best Pick But Unlikely: Huckabee
seriously, 'mason', you are making a mess of nate's site. instead of quoting people and then making a sad attempt at an erudite commentary, try and write something original for a change. you witless prick.
"Minnesota Mike said...
A poll from one corner of Colorado.
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=1ccadc3d-8b8d-43b3-a671-939370c87ca3
SUSA polled Colorado's 4th Cong District. McCain leads Obama 48-46 in the 4th CD (In 2004 Bush beat Kerry 58-41 in the 4th).
BTW the poll also shows Dem Betsy Markey beating incumbent Rep Marylin Musgrave 50-43"
Oh, Lordy! This is totally mind-blowing. Colorado 4th district is basically like Kansas. It's flat farming country in eastern Colorado. It's McCain country if anywhere in the state is. Here's the info:
"Colorado's 4th Congressional District is 31,000 square miles, and touches the state of Oklahoma on the South, Kansas on the East, and Nebraska and Wyoming on the North. McCain and Obama tie there. President George W. Bush has a 37% job approval. The US Congress has a 13% job approval. 31% have a favorable opinion of the incumbent House member Musgrave (R), but her Net Favorable Rating is Minus 20. 29% have a favorable opinion of Betsy Markey, but her Net Favorable Rating is Plus 4. The seat has been held by a Republican for 35 years. The last Democrat to represent the district was first elected to the House during the Truman administration. Musgrave received 51% of the vote when she defeated Stan Matsunaka in 2004. She received 46% of the vote when she defeated Angie Paccione and a 3rd party candidate in 2006."
Republicans outnumber Democrats by 10% there. If this poll is remotely accurate McCain is utterly dead-meat in Colorado. Not a chance in hell he could win if he's only up by 2% in the 4th. It's rural rock-ribbed Republican country.
I'm looking for a flaw in this poll, because I frankly don't see how it's possible. But the only thing I can see is they have 28% of voters 18-34, 28% 35-49, 28% 50-64, and 17% 65+.
I don't know if this distribution is right, but Obama is beating McCain by +5 in the under 34 crowd, and -1 35-49, only -3 with 50-64, and whipping Obama as you'd expect with 65+ (54%-38% or +16%).
But they're only 17% of the vote.
That's all better than expected for Obama.
All I can say is that McCain better hope the electorate doesn't look like this on election day or you can put a fork in him, cause he's done here in Colorado.
Thanks, VCon.
HARRISON
Your post is excellent advice.
Most of those on this left-leaning blog [granted] respect rational partisanship when the posters can stay on point & keep their personal comments in bounds with civility.
V Cons, i argee with you. Huckabee is the best choice for McCain.
Romney doesn´t help him.
Maybe, a McCain-Romney ticket likes the Dole-Kemp looser ticket.
Safe Pick: Romney
Surprise Pick: Palin
Best Pick But Unlikely: Huckabee
Huckabee's not just unlikely, he ain't happening. McCain has solidified the base already, and there's no need for a Bush-style conservative on the ticket.
My feeling is that Crist shouldn't be discounted, either, since Biden will likely put Florida into play for Obama, and Crist will play better than Romney there. Of course, Romney's the only one that'll give McCain a shot at Michigan...
VA CON
Does your 'buddy' Glenn Beck support Romney for POTUS [I mean VP] ?
Let me guess...
Some of you really are crazy if you think these polls are irrelevant or "just noise,"
Several polls now have shown that Obama did not get a bounce from his VP pick and in fact McCain got a bounce from it. Yesterday may have been McCain's best single-day polling result ever in the Rasmussen tracking poll, and it's likely that tomorrow's average will have McCain ahead.
Obama may get a bounce after the convention if Democrats actually start coming together, but it's a mistake to just ignore these polls.
I have maintained this all day. The promised press conference seems not to have happened yet.
reaking News on Denver "Assassination" Arrests
McCain solidified the base?.
If he picks Lieberman, i don´t think so.
DCM-
Mormons stick together. They may as well be their own ethnic group.
"Native born" Mormons (if you will) like Mitt Romney or on your side Harry Reid are nice folks, if a little saccharin and TOO perfect.
Convert Mormons, like Glenn Beck, are nuts.
One of the things not shown in the state or national polls is the "Bradley effect" -- the 5-7% who may say the will vote for Obama but who actually won't. If you factor this in Obama is not actually ahead in any of the battleground states or nationally.
Has he peaked at 45% which he achieved in March? A number he hasn't gone over since then?
An interesting question.
VACon and Dario,
Why do you think Huckabee is the best pick? Just curious.
JOHN
The election is NOT a national beauty pageant where we pick the POTUS by popular vote.
That is just one of the reasons why the national daily tracker #'s do not really matter.
At best the might pick up a trend, but mostly in August they are random noise [see the distribution for the summer]. Also, both pollsters have McCain 'house effects'.
Since POTUS is chosen by state EV elections, it is the state polling that matters.
McCain seems to be improving in his core southern RED states in the national tracker [apparently] because his 'surge' is not showing up in the state polling which really matters. Plus, neither of the national tracker pollsters makes their internals & crosstabs available for analysis.
Nice try playing though...
filistro -
Serious question... is there a mirror-image of this site anywhere?
none of the ones i've seen allow postings. so maybe such a curiosity is not possible
I liked the women senators and Sweeney was ok. He began better then he ended. But this auto worker is really good. Emotional, authentic. Brings the right talking points.
Oh, and all I´m saying to the CNN coverage: Forget it. Watch C-SPAN.
Here´s the link to the livestream:
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN_rm.aspx
eponymous, because he solidified the base more than McCain. I don´t think Huckabee is good, i said that he help McCain.
OMFG, Wolf is concern trolling with David Gergen about the Dems lack of a message and attacks on McCain. WTF?!? Are these morons living in some alternate universe. Ed Rendell just came off the stage, you knobs!
I'm gonna slit my wrists. They're now in full-on concern troll mode about Obama not appealing to "working class blue collar, kitchen sink waitresses with 8 kids, a mortgage, 3 cats, a dog, alchoholic husband notwithstanding, but still uneducated feminist voters."
America is truely the dumbest nation oon earth.
rasmus,
The major network coverage is just generally atrocious. C-Span is good, PBS is a good alternative imo.
VA CON
I was not aware that Glenn Beck was a convert. I assumed [silly me] that he was a born 'n' bred LDS missionary-type.
Thanks for enlightening me on his background, but Beck seriously makes me cringe...
IMHO he is so out there, that he makes Keith O. seem fair & balanced in comparison...
I think Huckabee is the best pick to go up against Biden for the following reasons:
1)Like Biden, hes truly working class, he raised himself up from deep south, dirt poor poverty. You can't say he owns any mansions or is an elitist.
2)Just like Biden is a great hatchet man, Huckabee is a great "disarmer". He'll be so darn nice in the debate Biden won't have the heart to attack him and will come out his best buddy.
Look, CNN just sucks period.
Fox gives a good right-leaning viewpont, and MSNBC has interesting personalities (Matthews, Maddow, Buchanan).
CNN has Wolf Blitzer's monotone and Larry King. 'Nuff said.
Mark said...
"One of the things not shown in the state or national polls is the "Bradley effect" -- the 5-7% who may say the will vote for Obama but who actually won't. If you factor this in Obama is not actually ahead in any of the battleground states or nationally."
Now that is just plain troll posting. Please stop it.
There is NO 'Bradley effect' in anon telephone polling - GET IT STRAIGHT !
It has only rarely shown up in live in-person polling & exit polling - but any influence is projected to be nominal & isolated at best.
PLEASE stop with the race-baiting posts...
I'm gonna slit my wrists. They're now in full-on concern troll mode about Obama not appealing to "working class blue collar, kitchen sink waitresses with 8 kids, a mortgage, 3 cats, a dog, alchoholic husband notwithstanding, but still uneducated feminist voters."
That´s funny. 3 cats is much.
VACon,
Those are definitely good reasons to choose him, but don't you think McCain's biggest challenge right now is to reach out to indys? I may be mistaken, but I hardly think he's at risk to lose any significant portion of his base. Given that support though, he needs more to get a decisive edge. I just don't see Huckabee having much of an independent appeal.
Then again, I don't know how many Republican VP choices will have a big impact on that, I haven't really looked at the numbers.
The previous thread had comments regarding Obama's work, or lack thereof.
Public record:
Graduated Columbia U 1983 with B.A in political science, specializing in International Relations.
1983-1985 - Business International Corporation; New York Public Interest Research Group.
1985 - Moved to Chicago to become a community organizer in 1985. During three years as DCP's director, increased staff from 1 to 13 and annual budget from $70,000 to $400,000. Also worked as consultant and instructor for Gamaliel Foundation.
1988 - Entered Harvard Law.
1991 - Graduated magna cum laude.
1989 and 1990. Worked as summer associate.
1991 - Received advance and contract to write a book. U of Chicago Law School also provided a fellowship and office for working on his book.
1995 - "Dreams from my Father" published
1993-1996 - Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland Law Firm.
1996 - elected to Illinois Senate.
1998 - reelected to Illinois Senate.
1996-2004 - University of Chicago Law School. Taught Constitutional Law.
2004 - elected to U.S. Senate
McCain already brings in independents.
Huckabee can tap into the Evangelical vote (and their ground game). He sures up Virginia and Colorado due to that.
VA CON
Well since you have little use for CNN, will you watch when the 'crypt keeper' chats with McCain ?
Since he was on Leno last night [bombing I hear], then John will probably talk with Larry on Halloween - scary stuff...
Va Cons, now Obama is leaning among indies in OH and PA for a combortable margin.
This is the best for him.
VA CON
Sorry, nothing personal but I believe that to most non-evangelical americans Huckabee comes across as a smiling Hagee-type. He literally scares many of us !
Nate just put up a new post...
ciao
The neocons and corporatists who are contributing and running McCain's campaign won't accept Huckabee. He's not one of them. The FReepers don't like him, either.
Somebody kill David Gergen. PLEASE!!!!!
"rasmus,
The major network coverage is just generally atrocious. C-Span is good, PBS is a good alternative imo."
I learned that during the Primary Season. I´m from Germany. I just get CNN International if I want to watch TV coverage- but luckily I found the C-SPAN livestream now, so I can watch all the speeches without any moderation.
DCM, there is no evidence that the shift nationally is concentrated in deep red states, nor is there any reason to think that's the case.
I guess you are going to be shocked when the new swing state polls come out and they reflect the changes in the national polls just like they always do. In fact, it's a basic assumption in Nate's model that national polls reflect state polls (and vice versa) and it's one of the reasons why his model works.
Smitty... I really like "The Corner" which is bright, witty, and informative but as you say they're e-mail only, no comments. They do occasionally post mail from lefty trolls that is just as juvenile and offensive as the stuff our 538 kiddies come up with, though.
I'm not nuts about Huckabee either (I'm not evangelical). I didn't even consider him until Biden. But now it makes sense.
JOHN
You are arguing the position in reverse. Nate's model is showing a growing trend toward OBAMA in the simulations even with the national polls included.
See the top left side as Obama's EV, win% and Popular vote totals are rising each of the past few dats despite your beloved trackers.
Their influence is nominal, especially since they are counter-balanced by the latest state & national polls that show Obama ahead.
You apparently have no grasp of statistical analysis or else you are concern posting...
But the facts speak for themselves.
I agree with Nate: the trackers tell us nothing about the Convention, only about the period leading up to it and a whiff of its promise last night.
Nothing in the numbers as noted as would encourage Biden to think he was the popular choice. But face it, unless it was Hillary a huge number of delegates and voters, some say up to 50%, are going to be pissed.
So don’t blame Biden.
Blame Barack.
He had his chance to pick Hillary Clinton and have a week long unity fest.
Instead we have the drama of Democratic navel-gazing. It’s all about THEM. And nothing about the people.
Keith Matthew and Chris Olbermann are admitting there is no unity. Chuck Todd is pee-ing all over Barack’s appeal to rural voters. The question, Matthews raises is whether she was just a parking space for an anti-Obama animus? It would be foolish to think that Hillary could turn many of these voters, particularly with a convention speech. She caint be a' droppin’ her “Gs” and all. Bill might have driven his pick up down those country roads and talked some sense to these folk. But I doubt he will, more than a token few times. Like twice.
Nate is clever to point out that Biden is not to blame and that any veep pick would have suffered. It may yet be that Biden was the best of the field.
I think Nate tries too hard to spin the Quin polls. The biggest takeaway is the six point favorable shift to McCain in FL. Further confirmation that the Obama media campaign thus far has been ineffective. Ineffective in FL against an empty goal. McCain spent not a nickel over the period while Obama spent millions and McCain managed to reverse the deficit and take a four point lead, a swing, as noted, of SIX Points. That’s big. Meanwhile in OH and PA. No movement. OH a near tie, PA comfortably for Obama. It’s early for the battlegrounds. PA and OH have been contested to a duel. FL was simply a rejection of Obama. The elderly?
Nate finds encouragement that these polls outdid his own margins and therefore he is cheered. Of late there has been talk here of a pro-Obama adjustment in the model. I would not take much stock in such modest out performance as observed here.
I think Hill will give a good speech and Bill will make a great one. Obama has been pressured to show America the beef and he won’t dare do the “staying of the rising of the oceans” stick. The celebrity meme having taken hold, Obama will be forced to tone down the rhetorical flourishes. It isn’t so much what he says, it’s the effect he has on the crowd. He simply cannot afford to have them swooning or flicking their Bics.
By Friday the story will be how disappointing his speech was. McCain may even want to delay the announcement of his running mate (Rob Portman), just so as not to step on the story of Obama’s fall from grace.
I found it telling that everyone was gushing over how that little girl said “Hi, Daddy!” in that infectiously sweet way of children and reporters like Campbell Brown were cooing all over about how “humanizing” that was.
What father or mother has not known the joyous lilt of their child’s voice? What did these people think Obama was until he was “humanized”? An axe murderer?
NEXT: The Comeback!
TO BE CONTINUED!
Tooo many bloggers here and on other sites compare how McCain is presently doing in each state with how that state turned out for Dumbya in November 2004 but that is the wrong way to look at it.
If you check electoral-vote.com's This Day In 2004 page each day you'll see a writeup of the state polling back in 2004 at a comparable point in time.
Right now McCain is doing better than Bush was on August 26, 2004 in most states, including FL and MO.
VACon,
I still don't see why Huckabee is a better choice than someone who would really go for the jugular among indys and undecideds (maybe there isn't a good VP for that). McCain brings those in in any significant number and the election's his.
That said, Huckabee certainly brings certain strengths to the ticket, no denying that, and I don't think he will do any significant harm among close states he needs to win (OH, FL, VA come to mind).
PETE
those are just tiresome commentary posts.
how many other blogs have you spammed this latest space-wasting screed ?
please give it a rest... take a nap maybe.
Does Huckabee even want to be VP?
Last I heard he was interested in becoming the celebrity that Obama is accused of being...
JACKSON
that's right. I heard he wants Pat Buchanan's job - but as a FAUX pundit.
McCain should pick John Kasich or Jodi Rell (Gov. of CT). Linda Lingle (Gov. of Haw.) is also pretty good, although a RINO.
Everyone else has major flaws. Romney would deflate the evangelical vote. Portman has Bush Administration dripping for every pore. And Palin, my God, that would be an idiotic choice. She would cut the legs right out of McCain's best argument against Obama, his lack of experience.
I predict that both national trackers will move against Obama again tomorrow (Wednesday) morning.
Only 3 national polls have been taken so far entirely after the Biden pick. CNN showed Obama losing 7 points from last month into a tie. Rasmussen showed Obama losing 3 points overnight into a tie. Gallup (that includes cellphones) showed Obama losing two points overnight and now 2 points behind for the first time since the primaries ended.
Republicans have gained ground between August 26 and the November election in every election since 1976 (except in 1992 and 2000). So McCain is now well-positioned for an eventual win, especially in light of Barack's poor debate performances against Hillary and former mentor Jeremiah's tell-all memoir coming out in October.
PPP is a notorious Democrat pollster, Fillstro. That poll is clearly meant to influence contributions and to a smaller degree enthusiasm. If Obama is going to win NC, something is going to have to carry him across the finish line. He will have no coattails there. He most likely will lose by 10 pts
Mr. Insight makes a good point. The electoral horserace favored Kerry throughout. Last time around it was gay marriage, now its Barack Obama. Something always brings the voters to the polls.
DCM: Nate got the exclusive!
VC: To me Huck only makes sense as an orator. He brings nothing else to the ticket demographically that is not already locked down. Saddleback began the trend and the infanticide meme will dog Obama throughout the campaign. Newsweek is out with a serious think piece of how confused and contradictory Obama’s positions on abortion are. Pelosi has been called out by the Catholic Church for spewing falsehoods about church teaching on the beginning of life. The Archbishop of Denver has suggested that Biden refrain from taking communion given his pro-choice views. Catholics are a big tent bunch and lean right of center, like the nation, but the Evangelicals they are monolithic on this. McCain does not need Huckabee. Conversely he does not need the distraction of Romney either. Pawlenty would be the compromise choice. Portman would be the interesting surprise. As would Kasich (Naomiiii)
Dogfight bw Rachel Maddow and Pat Buchanan on MSNBC!
People keep mentioning Kasich. I have Republican friends in Ohio and they are all convinced (depsite the recent marriage and kids) that Kasich is gay.... which is, of course, fatal.
Obama/Biden-D -starts out with 190ev
McCain/Romney-R starts out with 189ev.
Obama/Biden-D is favored to win.
1)CA
2)CT
3)DC
4)DE
5)HI
6)IL
7)MA
8)MD
9)ME
10)NJ
11)NY
12)OR
13)RI
14)VT
15)WA
McCain-Romney-R is favored to win
1)AK
2)AL
3)AR
4)AZ
5)GA
6)ID
7)IN
8)KS
9)KY
10)LA
11)MS
12)MT
13)NC
14)ND
15)NE
16)OK
17)SC
18)SD
19)TN
20)TX
21)UT
22)WV
23)WY
The battleground states
1)CO
2)FL
3)IA
4)MI
5)MN
6)MO
7)NH
8)NM
9)NV
10)OH
11)PA
12)VA
13)WI
Biden(DE)delivers PA to Obama. 211ev.
Competitive US Senate Races in battleground states- which Democrats are favored to win.
VA(Warner)
NM(Udall)
NH(Shaheen)
CO(Udall)
242ev.
Obama wins IA,MN,WI- midwestern states with strong Anti War populations- home of Harkin,Wellstone,and Feingold.
269ev.
plus NV.
274ev with out MI and OH.
In order to wrap my mind around all the statistics I setup a spreadsheet to organize it in a way I can understand:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EC-Forecast/files
I came up with this analysis:
Solid Obama: 14 states, 183 votes
Lean Obama: 7 states, 77 votes
Swing: 5 states, 51 votes
Lean McCain: 8 states, 78 votes
Solid McCain: 17 states, 149 votes
Obama can reach 270 EC votes by holding onto solid and lean states
(260) and adding toss-up state Virginia (13) or toss-up states
Colorado (9) + New Hampshire (4). This strategy doesn't require winning Ohio.
Pleased to find that am not the only one scribbling away with EVs as of yesterday
Base
BO 200 - JM 182
With likely wins [3-6up]
BO 238 - JM 197
PA/IA/MN - NC
Leaves Toss ups [less than 3% lead]
BO 273 - JM 265
MI/NM/NH/CO - VA/NV/OH/MT/FL
BO wins without Ohio, Virginia or Nevada.
My guess would be JM wins NH though. giving 269-269.....
Delaware is now listed amond the top 15 tipping point states? After the Biden selection? Higher than Oregon, Indiana, Wisconsin?
Doesn't sound right.
"Virginia Conservative said...
I'm just sick of the post mortem from the Democrats always being "We lost cause Americans are stupid/Diebold stole the election!"
When Republicans lose, you notice, the post mortem is "We lost because our opponents ran a better campaign" instead."
Garbage. When Gregoire won Washginton governor's race in '04, the Republicans screamed fraud. When Tim Johnson won his Senate race in '02 by a close margin (not as close as Florida '00), National Review put him on the cover with the word "Fraud" in big red letters. And in 2000 itself--and if you don't think that was stolen, go read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy," then we'll talk--the Republicans were screaming--and assaulting ballot workers--to prevent ballots from being counted.
Nate, you gotta watch this site--the trolls are beginning to detract from the conversation (funny how mule was unable to actually point to a mirror image of this site on the right. Try again, loser.)
8/27/2008
A message from the Pete Kent school of “data” analysis:
Obama was up 3% over yesterday in the Gallup Daily tracking poll. This is a clear indicator of a major bounce from the convention. And since the poll was completed before Hillary's speech, expect an even bigger jump tomorrow. Obama ought to be up by 8% by the end of the week.
“Cherry-picking is the way to go.”
“Data? Who needs data? At the Pete Kent school we don't worry about their data, we invent our own.”
Editorial comment: It's all noise. Nothing will be meaningful until a week after both conventions.
You'd be amazed at how many city people think Huckabee is actually quite cool in his own right. Think Gomer Pyle, who in any debate could always be relied on to get the best of his seemingly more sophisticated colleagues.
愛情公寓,情色,舊情人,情色貼圖,情色文學,情色交友,色情聊天室,色情小說,一葉情貼圖片區,情色小說,色情,色情遊戲,情色視訊,情色電影,aio交友愛情館,色情a片,一夜情,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊,視訊,視訊美女,美女視訊,視訊交友,視訊聊天,免費視訊聊天室,情人視訊網,影音視訊聊天室,視訊交友90739,成人影片,成人交友,美女交友,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人貼圖,成人電影,A片,豆豆聊天室,聊天室,UT聊天室,尋夢園聊天室,男同志聊天室,UT男同志聊天室,聊天室尋夢園,080聊天室,080苗栗人聊天室,6K聊天室,女同志聊天室,小高聊天室,上班族聊天室,080中部人聊天室,同志聊天室,聊天室交友,中部人聊天室,成人聊天室,一夜情聊天室,情色聊天室,寄情築園小遊戲,AV女優,A片下載,免費A片,日本A片,麗的色遊戲,色色網,情色論壇,嘟嘟情人色網,色情網站,成人網站,成人論壇,成人小說,微風成人區,色美媚部落格,正妹牆,正妹百人斬,aio,伊莉,伊莉討論區,成人文章,成人圖片區,免費成人影片,成人遊戲,成人影城,本土自拍,自拍,癡漢俱樂部,AV,做愛,做愛影片,av片,a漫,av dvd,線上a片,日本美女寫真集
情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,按摩棒,跳蛋,充氣娃娃,情境坊歡愉用品,情趣用品,情人節禮物,情惑用品性易購
免費A片,AV女優,美女視訊,情色交友,免費AV,色情網站,辣妹視訊,美女交友,色情影片,成人影片,成人網站,A片,H漫,18成人,成人圖片,成人漫畫,情色網,日本A片,免費A片下載,性愛
A片,色情,成人,做愛,情色文學,A片下載,色情遊戲,色情影片,色情聊天室,情色電影,免費視訊,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊聊天室,一葉情貼圖片區,情色,情色視訊,免費成人影片,視訊交友,視訊聊天,視訊聊天室,言情小說,愛情小說,AIO,AV片,A漫,av dvd,聊天室,自拍,情色論壇,視訊美女,AV成人網,色情A片,SEX
情趣用品,A片,免費A片,AV女優,美女視訊,情色交友,色情網站,免費AV,辣妹視訊,美女交友,色情影片,成人網站,H漫,18成人,成人圖片,成人漫畫,成人影片,情色網
情趣用品,A片,免費A片,日本A片,A片下載,線上A片,成人電影,嘟嘟成人網,成人,成人貼圖,成人交友,成人圖片,18成人,成人小說,成人圖片區,微風成人區,成人文章,成人影城,情色,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,情色視訊,情色文學,色情小說,情色小說,臺灣情色網,色情,情色電影,色情遊戲,嘟嘟情人色網,麗的色遊戲,情色論壇,色情網站,一葉情貼圖片區,做愛,性愛,美女視訊,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,視訊交友網,免費視訊聊天,美女交友,做愛影片
av,情趣用品,a片,成人電影,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人,成人貼圖,成人交友,成人圖片,18成人,成人小說,成人圖片區,成人文章,成人影城,愛情公寓,情色,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,情色視訊,情色文學,色情小說,情色小說,色情,寄情築園小遊戲,情色電影,aio,av女優,AV,免費A片,日本a片,美女視訊,辣妹視訊,聊天室,美女交友,成人光碟
情趣用品.A片,情色,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,情色視訊,情色文學,色情小說,情色小說,色情,寄情築園小遊戲,情色電影,色情遊戲,色情網站,聊天室,ut聊天室,豆豆聊天室,美女視訊,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,視訊交友網,免費視訊聊天,免費A片,日本a片,a片下載,線上a片,av女優,av,成人電影,成人,成人貼圖,成人交友,成人圖片,18成人,成人小說,成人圖片區,成人文章,成人影城,成人網站,自拍,尋夢園聊天室
徵信社, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, 通姦, 通姦罪, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 捉姦, 監聽, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 外遇問題, 徵信, 捉姦, 女人徵信, 外遇問題, 女子徵信, 外遇, 徵信公司, 徵信網, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇蒐證, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 外遇沖開, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇蒐證, 外遇, 通姦, 通姦罪, 贍養費, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信, 徵信社, 女人徵信
徵信, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵信,徵信網, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵, 徵信公司, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信公司, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵, 徵
^^ very nice
徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,
徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社,
^^ nice blog!! ^@^
徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 感情挽回, 婚姻挽回, 挽回婚姻, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, 通姦, 通姦罪, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 捉姦, 監聽, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 外遇問題, 徵信, 捉姦, 女人徵信, 女子徵信, 外遇問題, 女子徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 徵信公司, 徵信網, 外遇蒐證, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 婚姻挽回, 挽回婚姻, 外遇沖開, 抓姦, 女子徵信, 外遇蒐證, 外遇, 通姦, 通姦罪, 贍養費, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信公司, 女人徵信, 外遇
徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵信網, 外遇, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 女人徵信, 徵信社, 女人徵信社, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 女人徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社,
徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 抓姦, 離婚, 外遇,離婚,
徵信, 外遇, 離婚, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信社, 征信, 征信, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 征信, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社,
艾葳酒店經紀公司提供專業的酒店經紀, 酒店上班小姐,八大行業,酒店兼職,傳播妹,或者想要到打工兼差、打工,兼差,或者八大行業,酒店兼職,想去酒店上班, 日式酒店,制服酒店,ktv酒店,禮服店,整天穿得水水漂漂的,還是想去制服店當上班小姐,水水們如果想要擁有打工工作、晚上兼差工作、兼差打工、假日兼職、兼職工作、酒店兼差、兼差、打工兼差、日領工作、晚上兼差工作、酒店工作、酒店上班、酒店打工、兼職、兼差、兼差工作、酒店上班等,想了解酒店相關工作和特種行業內容,想兼職工作日領、假日兼職、兼差打工、或晚班兼職想擁有快速賺錢又有保障的工作嗎???又可以現領請找專業又有保障的艾葳酒店經紀公司!
艾葳酒店經紀是合法的公司工作環境高雅時尚,無業績壓力,無脫秀無喝酒壓力,高層次會員制客源,工作輕鬆,可日領、現領。
一般的酒店經紀只會在水水們第一次上班和領薪水時出現而已,對水水們的上班安全一點保障都沒有!艾葳酒店經紀公司的水水們上班時全程媽咪作陪,不需擔心!只提供最優質的酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店打工環境、上班條件給水水們。心動嗎!? 趕快來填寫你的酒店上班履歷表
水水們妳有缺現領、有兼職、缺錢卡奴的煩腦嗎?想到日本留學缺錢嗎?妳是傳播妹??想要擁有高時薪又輕鬆的夜間兼職工作,打工機會和,假日打工,假日兼職賺錢的機會嗎??想實現夢想卻又缺錢沒錢嗎!??
艾葳酒店台北酒店經紀招兵買馬!!徵專業的酒店打工,想要去酒店的水水,想要短期日領,酒店日領,禮服酒店,制服店,酒店經紀,ktv酒店,便服店,酒店工作,禮服店,酒店小姐,酒店經紀人,
等相關服務 幫您快速的實現您的夢想~!!
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店經紀,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店工作,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
菲
梵,
Post a Comment