The presidential polls have been more or less stable for several weeks now. With Barack Obama in Hawaii and most of the country focused on the Olympics, you'd probably expect them to stay that way until someone holds a convention or names a vice president. However, three new polls released today show significant movement toward John McCain.
In Washington, SurveyUSA has John McCain trailing by 7 points. This hardly moves Washington into competitive territory, however, SurveyUSA had polled Washington no fewer than nine times since Super Tuesday, and had shown Obama ahead an average of 13.4 points, including 16 points in a survey released in mid-July.
A similar pattern manifests itself in Minnesota, where Rasmussen has Barack Obama's lead eroding to 4 points; Obama had held a 13-point lead last month. And in the critical swing state of Colorado, Rasmussen has John McCain edging into a 1-point lead; last month, it had been Obama by 3.
Colorado, Minnesota and Washington are quite similar to one another demographically. There are no overwhelmingly strong hints about what's going in from the cross-tabular results, but it appears that McCain has gained ground with independents (as is almost always the case when the polls move) and also that some Republican voters are moving from undecided to McCain.
Still, it's a little bit perplexing to see movement like this without any obvious proximate cause. As usual, we are simply going to have to wait for more data to find out whether it means anything.
p.s. Although it doesn't quite fit into our storyline above, there is also a University of Texas poll out in the Lone Star State, showing John McCain with a 43-33 lead.
8.14.2008
Today's Polls, 8/14
by Nate Silver @ 6:21 PM...see also colorado, minnesota, texas, today's polls, washington
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174 comments
This is a pretty substantial movement in the polls - quite possibly McCain's Olympic ads are starting to seep in?
Perhaps he's getting traction from his response to the war in Georgia.
In before everyone whines about Rasmussen being biased, when never raising any questions on open partisan polls like PPP.
Texas internals: Austin 95-5% for Obama, everywhere else: McCain
The Russia-Georgia incident maybe?
For as much as events and Mccain's been running ads, that doesn't seem like major movement. Obama still has his paths to 270 intact. Mccain needs to do better if this is his cresting, and next week will have Obama's veep pick, then the DNC.
Questions about Rasmussen polls: Do they vary the order of their questions or do they always ask them in the order they show them (e.g., http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/state_toplines/colorado/toplines_colorado_presidential_election_august_13_2008)?
Also, how do they calculate Party IDs for their state polls? Specifically, if they lower their national Democrat number from 41.4 to 40.6 (which they did this month), do they just lower every state's Democrat number by 0.8 points?
Now McCain is 240 in the EV. And Obama is 287.
So I notice that the Super Tracker has obama dipping about a percentage point, this seems due to the outlier that has mccain at +5 that was just added. I havent seen any poll that has mccain at +5, is this a mistake? Can you please specify which poll it is?
The biggest change I see is that Virginia flipped from "obama/tossup to mccain/tossup". Comments?
We are still in a period of political noise. Obviously it is not good nes for Obama, but it will not turn out to have been bad news unless they are sustained in subsequent polling. The key time points: (1) A few days after the conventions, (2) A few days after the first debate.
It's the Clinton thing rearing its ugly head again. People who were resigned to voting for Obama suddenly get the primaries thrust in their face once more. Sigh.
If I were Obama, I'd offer the both of them a free Hawaii vacation from the day after the convention until November 4th. They've never cared about the Democratic party, and they never will. Having them campaign for Obama is pointless, just as Gore figured out.
The only thing it could be is the smear boo, the guy was on all the cable shows yesterday. Or it could be noise. Nothing else happened. Outlier days happen every now and then. Maybe this is one of them.
where the heck are they polling in Colorado, I've yet to see a yard sign or bumper sticker for McCain. All I see is Obama. yesterday I was snacking in a favorite eatery and there was a gathering of one of Obama's grass root neighborhood support groups there . So where are all these McCain supporters?
Oh boy, another "AMERICAN ARE WAKING UP" troll.
It's going to be funny when these polls swing back in Obama's direction in two week. It's funny how Americans wake up and fall asleep and wake up and fall asleep.
The tortured, rollercoaster life of a troll...
Rasmussen polling this week has almost single handed managed to regress Nate's projections for the national election back to where it was 2-3 weeks ago.
Interesting or just noise ?
It appears to be similar to the Gallup national poll spreads ebbs & flows - but rather stable around a general mean for this early in the cycle.
Polling trends matter some now, but not much until 2 weeks after the final convention [mid-September.]
Still a smart betting man would take the 60% proposition.
Obama looks just fine at the moment with multiple routes to the current 288 EV projection. Looked better at 300 EV granted...
Cross-posting from the now-dead Hillary thread. Nate, my man, I love ya, but letting ScottyRazz and SurveyUSA influence your entire model is . . . well, you're the guru.
LOL at the Clownservatives. So predictable. Just as it was so predictable that ScottyRazz's CO poll would have a swing for McSame. Razz was so excited about it that he let it slip earlier in the day with a teaser line when the Udall/Schaffer (big lead for Udall) poll was released. Hehe.
Here's a dose of reality.
1) McSame HAS to win Colorado. If he doesn't, the election is over. So I wouldn't be too too excited about one poll showing him up by a single point. Same with Virginia - - I wouldn't get too exercised about a poll showing McSame up by less than a full point. These are red, red states.
2) Is there really going to be that much ticket-splitting in Colorado? Really? People give Udall a 50-42 lead, but McSame is up 48-47 or 47-46 (sorry, don't have the exact result in front of me at the moment)? I kinda doubt it.
3) The convention will blow McSame out of the polling water in Colorado. You didn't hear it here first, because so many others have said it, but just wait. And without Colorado . . . well, I guess the Cons will have to go back to their Michigan fantasy.
4) ScottyRazz is a REPUBLICAN. Somehow, he managed to make a lot of people forget this, but he's a partisan pollster, as anyone who has ever participated in one of his polls knows. If you've never participated in one, then don't reply to this point, because you truly have no idea.
5) +4 in Minnesota? ROTFL. Sure, Scotty. That result right there tells me all I need to know about the Colorado poll.
I conclude that Obama is actually up in Colorado by 3-4 points. And it's goodnight, McSame! Sleep tight.
All these polls fall within the range of results we've seen since June. All this tells us one thing:
nothing has changed.
Desperate GOP'ers frantically looking for signs of their salvation should be ignored.
Notable that these numbers sent Obama's probability of winning from 65% yesterday to 59.5% today.
You haven't been able to buy any McCain in meaningful volume for several days, while there's been a ton of BHO for sale.
Still way too early to treat these poll number wiggles as anything but short-term noise. I'd say the Russia stuff was more important to this wiggle than the Hillary stuff, but I'm just guessing, too.
Obama will bounce back with the convention, then McCain will, and after that the numbers will start to be meaningful. That will show if Obama is truly capped or if he can break through 50%. There's still, what, 18 states where neither is at 50%?
I (like Filipe) am also confused about the supertracker. I haven't seen any polls that put McCain up 5 points nationally, much less actually have him averaging up 5 for the day. Is this a data entry mistake, or am I missing something?
Obama supporters are open and noisy. But, as Theodore H. White pointed out in The Making of the President 1960, "quiet people vote too" and there are many more of them than there are noisy college kids. So that's the solution to the discrepancy between polling and open shows of enthusiasm.
Seniors and working class whites are quietly biding their time to come out in droves against Obama in November.
It is absolutely AMAZING how many angry liberals are here. I've never seen such a gathering. All of them have to call McCain or conservatives in general all kinds of childish names. It speaks VOLUMES as to the mentality of a liberal. Wow. You guys really know how to represent!
Now, since I don't toe the Obama subculture movement line, I am prepared to bear my title as "troll".
Well said mrinsight! I am one of those rare conservatives that participate in the "noise" however. I have my bumpersticker in liberal heaven (Connecticut) that says "NOBAMA, NO SOCIALISM". There are many more of us out there who are quiet that will not vote for Obama and his nonsense platitudes and generalities. We are just waiting until November to make noise that counts.
As Nate has pointed out, since 1976the GOP candidate has gained in the polls between July and November in every election except 1992 and 2000 and between August and November in every election except 1992.
So current polls showing Obama ahead nationally by 1-4 points and McCain taking back the lead in CO, NV, and VA should scare Obamaphiles -- not to mention tightening in WI, IA, and MN.
Why I'm Voting for Barack Obama -
(1) He is a breath of fresh air in Washington - BO has very little national political experience. He has yet to finish his first term in the US Senate and before that was a ward politican for Ill State Senate. This lack of experience is great for the nation as it will allow for fresh decisions to be made. New ideas are just what Washington needs.
2) Barack Obama is a uniter that will bring this country together. While BO did attend a very devisive anti-American church for 20yrs and continues to propogate the same Democratic "class-warfare" rhetoric of evil Big Oil, evil Big Corporations, 'windfall tax', and unfair tax breaks for the rich, etc... he has also promised to unite this country and I believe what he says is true.
3. Barack Obama is a radical pro-abortion defender of choice. I appreciate BO's efforts and vote against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. Obama's position that infants that are "mistakingly" left alive by abortion must still be terminated may seem extreme and cruel, but his logical consistency is impressive in his defense of all abortion rights. Terminating babies that are born from botched abortions is necessary because as soon as you start allowing for exceptions, then you have started that "slippery slope" of repealing Roe v Wade.
4. Barack Obama is young and is in great shape. Besides being in much better shape than McCain, he is also young and hip. Have you seen the YouTube of him dancing with Ellen D - awesome! A young President will be great and the youth vote is always the right vote for change. Just think what the last youth movement did for the country in the 1960's. Its all good.
stutter:
GREAT comment. Thanks for elevating the level of the discourse. Whew. Thank goodness you're here to keep us all in line.
Oh, one thing - - you forgot to add that you are NOT a McCain supporter, but a "moderate with libertarian leanings living on one of Jupiter's inner moons and just casually posting [constantly] on 538." Get that in next time.
To NeoClown.
Look at ScottyRazz' (sic) past polling in MN. Oh, gee...I guess he wasn't a Republican in June or July.
BTW this guy that runs fivethirtyeight is a LIBERAL. Does that mean we don't believe his model?
Make sense before you post.
Obama, jeans and jacket, jogging on a beach, vacationing in Hawaii, talking informally outdoors with the media.
McCain, suit and tie, on the campaign trail, in the continental USA, issuing a detailed public statement.
The contrasting images are startling.
James Carville would NEVER have allowed a candidate of his to get caught in such a visually compromising situation. Obama's people are organizational geniuses, but they do not have the inate political accumen of a Carville.
I am sure that John McCain would like a day off, but as a 70+ year old candidate he can never allow the impression of fatigue and both he and his campaign people know it.
Obama's youthful vigor (or "vigah" as JFK would have pronounced it) appears to be nonchalance when a crisis situation occurs in a vacation setting.
Images are important.
I would not be suprised to see HRC on the ticket as the VP after seeing these poll results. Obama will also ask for Carville to be given the keys to the car. Pouffe (sp) can do his organizational thing.
If Obama does win this race, and I do NOT believe he will, we will look back at the time between now and the end of the convention as the period where he made the proper decisions that allowed him to weather this storm...because it is a storm.
The race is still early. Obama needs a big convention.
Kind of an extreme change in Win %...don't you think?
I declare McCain bias, lol.
OVERRATED - again you prove how truly pathetic & sad you must be...
MuleHead @ 6:03 PM - you are the definition of "ASSHOLE" that Nate specifically asked posters to avoid. Take your rude concern troll butt elsewhere please...
contribute on point or shut your piehole
not a neoclown.
No, I am not on one of Jupiters
inner moons or whatever crap you posted. I just want to keep my freedoms. I want to be able to keep my money that *I* earned and to keep my rights to have guns if I choose to defend myself. Obama is an attack on those liberties. So I am very interested in how November is shaping up. I check here everyday. To call McCain, McSame is an outragious lie...and it sounds like a frustrated teenager liberal that votes liberal just because it seems cool to do so.
These numbers should be taken seriously, I think they tell us something. One thing is, Colorado is the weakest piece of Obama´s grand plan - well, not the whole plan, but the most important scenario. It´ll be really hard to lose Iowa and New Mexico, but Colorado hasn´t yet arrived in the blue camp. That´s why the convention will be there. Colorado could become blue, but isn´t yet. Hence, Obama´s winpercentage drops sharply with a bad Colorado result.
Another thing is, there is a bit of a downward movement for Obama´s numbers. And I will tell you what I think is the reason: envy. Just look at the situation right at the moment. Nothing important has happened in the past few days, because Obama is on holidays....in Hawaii...while America´s middle class can´t fill their tanks (to overemphasize it). There are pictures of him on the beach, good-looking, with his family, all in all looking very positive. And I believe it is anoying people, especially those low-information voters that dont know that Obama grew up in Hawaii, and his grandmother etc...
Sometimes it is unbelievable what makes people vote. And we´re asking them what they will do in 3 months! Remember Obama´s Euro-trip bounce in the polls and its regression. Gallup´s numbers dropped 7 points in 2 days (I think). And nothing happened in those days.
I believe, AT THE MOMENT people are not really saying how they will vote. They rather express their feelings about the candidate. And feelings and rationale don´t have to agree. There is a downturn in Obama´s numbers, but it´s probably just as powerful as the Berlin-bounce. If Obama returns to bread-and-butter issues he will reverse these effects and the convention wil be the perfect opportunity.
We need Pete Kent now. Stutter, I like that.
Great to see Colorado come around from the Dark Side. Now, McCain only needs to keep Ohio, and the election is over.
You guys are absolutely hilarious. I love how you all champion and praise every poll that is favorable to Obama but when one favors McCain you look for anything you possibly can to declare it flawed. I mean it's not a big deal that this site is so favorable to Obama, just don't pretend to be unbiased.
Wow, DCM in FL, you seem to be losing your temper. I think Mule Rider has posted some great advice. Shut your pie hole. I haven't heard that since third grade. DCM in FL are you in the Third Grade?
"The Obamanation" best seller is the beginning of the end for BHO.
August was the first stop on the road to loserdom for Kerry and Dukakis, and so it is with Obama.
Josh,
Yes, the shift is an uptick for McCain but Nate's projections today are almost identical to where his #'s stood 2-3 weeks ago.
Actually, as I recall in late July Obama's EV total & win % were even slightly lower.
So it is basically more of the same. One step forward, one step back. The long trend still favors Obama since he has maintained a lead all summer.
Time will tell, but the #'s will not be that important until mid-September as noted over & over...
noise & screeching parrots
stutter:
Razz cooks his results. As I said, don't respond on that point unless you've taken one of his phone polls. Have you? If not, then please, don't comment. And the ridiculous movement in the Minnesota results is a combination of the "reweighted" (read: cooked) party affiliation, plus statistical noise. But please, by all means, let's have McSame toss in all his resources up in MN. Every last dime. Let's WIN THIS SWING STATE!!! Hehe.
And mad props to the "McCain can't afford to take a day off" troll post. ROTFL. He hasn't been spotted in the Senate since early April. And he gets in barely two events a day, in front of manufactured crowds, ten people at the Sausage Haus, or sickening rallies of drunken bikers. Yeah, he's a real hard worker! Oh, man. Such good humor on this site.
jack black,
McCain is representing himself well with the Georgia situation. Obama, while not totally his fault in terms of timing, is prancing along beaches. That looks bad, like it or not. Colorado never was fully on the darkside. It has just been subject to Obama this Obama that, and oh yeah, McCain is running too. When the debates come, I am confident that CO will turn a slightly more red hue of purple.
Obama won't unite this country. There are too many conservatives in this country who don't agree with his views and never will. Obama might unite liberals but not some moderates and most conservatives.
Also, he was part of an Illinois Committee that was on a mission to not let babies who survived abortions live. How does this man have any soul? That's the most disgusting thing I heard, and the worst is that he was the only dissenting voice. Once he left the Illinois Senate, the bill allowing babies that survived abortions was passed... what a jerk with no morals.
I can say now Minnesota is in play...three pollsters give McCain very very closed ( Quinnipiac -2, Survey -1 and now rasmussen -4 )...no noise in the latest rasmussen poll but it confirms other tw0...
Mule Rider,
Your denial is cute, but you basically just admitted you were a troll with this:
"I just like to make a bold statement to get the "anti-troll" crowd riled up."
Good job with that one. :)
But hey look, it appears today's polls have inspired the bimonthly therapy circle of desperate nutjobs. That's... uh... sad.
I agree. McCain should pour millions into Minnesota right now. I wholly endorse this course of action. Go for it, John, it's within reach!
not a neoclown,
You are obviously prepubescent. I could easily call Obama, Slobama. I could call a liberal, a Stalinist. But I don't..why? because it helps nothing in my arguement.
I know how Rasmussen works. His party affiliation changes when he detects a change in America's party afiliation. Rasmussen is a professional. His job is to get it right, not to favor one guy or the other. If he is wrong, his reputation is crap and people don't pay any attention to him anymore. Read his other MN polls, then come to a more calm conclusion.
stop the presses -
Jack Black says "I think Mule Rider has posted some great advice."
parrot talking... "Jack want a cracker ?"
site is for electoral projections done right - not for venting your spleen
"You are obviously prepubescent. I could easily call Obama, Slobama. I could call a liberal, a Stalinist. But I don't..why? because it helps nothing in my arguement."
Or you could pick the username 'Stop_the_Stutter' but you don't... oh wait...
Let me also add...
I think MN is still a waste of time for McCain. Not only do I think he won't win it, but he doesn't need to win it. Just win one of the bordering states.
No Republican has one MN in my lifetime, I think.
stop the stutter is actually factual. Listen to the man speak.
Lots of name calling tonight. The initial few days after forced registration on posts was great. We had civil discussions about stuff that mattered not the nonsense thats been spewed the last few days.
Lets stick with the facts folks. Todays numbers are good for McCain, but its one day. We need multiple days to make sure its not a blip. Both tracking polls are where they've been for a few weeks now. It doesn't matter how much you bitch and whine about the polls its not gonna change them so can we use some intelligence please.
It's very funny...in this strange blog some people dream about Obama can win states as Georgia or Alaska...but cannot admit that Minnesota is in play?? I repeat Minnesota is in play...Obama still has a slight lead...but is in play...the numbers are very very clear...
It's not a fact. This is a fact:
You're a pathetic, childish shill for a losing candidate.
But these sporadic GOP'er therapy sessions sure are f'n hilarious!
Minnesota is within reach, guys! Go for it!
NOT A NEOCLOWN:
Enjoy the humor all Summer and Fall, because HEEEERE's JOHNNY!
Obamites don't even want to discuss attendance unless it's Barry Soretoro's Indonesian Grade School attendance.
Enjoy.
stutter
"I know how Rasmussen works. His party affiliation changes when he detects a change in America's party afiliation."
detects or divines ??? at this point you might as well say Ras is GUESSING - but it looks & smells like home cooking to guarantee the big 'movement' he is marketing so you will buy his premium package !
but he will make every effort to readjust his cooked books in late Oct to be in line with the actual results. In the meantime, historically his early cycle polls appear to push a partisan message.
poor GOP is behind but closing fast !!!
It is an easy two-part answer, It was Obama's pathetic initial response to the outbreak of the war plus the fact that Obama's votes supporting infanticide while as a state senator. Plus the fact that he caved to my preferred candidate, Hillary, in allowing her name to be put in the roll call shows how weak-willed he is. Hopefully she will roll him and get the nomination in Denver before it is too late
Wait until the fact he supported border-line infanticide starts getting around in the heartland. I'm sure Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan would love to hear that!
All you liberals are just pissed because Obama is going through what Dukakis, Kerry, Mondale, even Gore went through. The late summer swoon. Let's not be too quick to call McCain a losing candidate when most of the losers are on YOUR side.
You all sound like the Whalers fans bantering against the Bruins fans in the early 90's..or the Mets fans against the Yankees fans.
stop_the_stutter i think McCain can try to carry Minnesota...yes it's very difficult and he doesn't need it but with this move can put a lot of pressure on Obama's camp...
Aren't you guys a little worried that McCain can't put up a decisive lead in these must-win states while his opponent is literally sitting on the beach, sipping margeritas and listening to Stevie Wonder?
I think they sound like Detroit Tiger fans when they finally realized the pussy cats were going to continue their historical losing streak despite a good start in the season.
NJ_Moderate are you going to support McCain and Zimmer this november?
stop_the_stutter @ 6:31 PM said something on point.
That is welcome discourse. But MN has been competitive & might even prove to be this cycle.
Senate races go back & forth between DFL & REP in MN so there is always a chance.
It is not a lock for Obama, but he does have an edge there [I grew up in MN].
VCon,
Your guy is still losing, no matter how many of you losers show up to fantasize about actually having a substantial shot... for just one day! LOL!
dcm in fl for sure obama leads in Minnesota...but for sure the state is in play...
You are obviously prepubescent. I could easily call Obama, Slobama. I could call a liberal, a Stalinist. But I don't..why? because it helps nothing in my arguement.
I know how Rasmussen works. His party affiliation changes when he detects a change in America's party afiliation. Rasmussen is a professional. His job is to get it right, not to favor one guy or the other. If he is wrong, his reputation is crap and people don't pay any attention to him anymore. Read his other MN polls, then come to a more calm conclusion.
Ohhhhhhh, stutter, come now. Relax. All riled up by me calling the esteemed senior sellout from Arizona "McSame"? Jeez. Thin-skinned, huh? Well, you just take the high road.
I'm pretty calm, thanks. I merely want all McCain campaign resoruces diverted to Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa immediately, because according to the wizards who post here such as yourself, those states are in play, or "tightening." LET'S WIN THESE BATTLEGROUNDS!!!!!
P.S., I am not an Obama supporter. I am a moderate libertarian, registered Independent former Goldwater Republican living underground (with Internet access) and occasionally posting on a political junkie site. Just wanted to clear that up.
Yes Conservative_in_Rome, that's what I want to hear! Minnesota is in play, and McCain can win (if Obama stays on vacation until November)! That's the spirit! Go Mac Go!
thatmarvelousape-
Wait until "The Obama Nation--Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality" has its full impact. The MSM is already eating it up.
Swiftboating, the sequel.
Can anybody recall a year where the debates promised to be more crucial, decisive and hard to predict as this year?
I think everything will hinge on the debates. Who will have the edge on that big stage?
thatmarvelousape Obama is wasting his money in states like Georgia, Alaska and Indiana...i think McCain can try a shot in Minnesota...
Haha!
VCon, they brought Corsi on for a few nights for some ritual humiliations! Even Larry King smacked the loser down! Larry King!
And it doesn't matter how many tens of thousands of copies the RNC buys in bulk, no one is touching that shit except mentally challenged true believers.
Meanwhile, McCain can't establish a lead while Obama is on vacation!
That. Is. Pathetic.
TM-
Yeah, nobody will believe John O'Neil and those nutty right wing swiftboaters will they?
Last night on Larry King they were saying this book could CHANGE THE ELECTION!
ConservativeInRome,
If McCain had the resources, it would be wise for him to do what Obama is doing in Georgia and Alaska just to help out Coleman. However, he doesn't have the luxury of providing assistance to congressional candidates. As I've said, I expect Obama to pull back from Georgia once he's put some modest infrastructure in place, but that doesn't change the fact that Minnesota is a blackhole for McCain.
VCon, please stop pushing that sleazy loathesome book. You've mentioned it at least ten times already... WE HEARD YOU.
If that's the only way you think you can win, it doesn't say much for the wrinkly white-haired dude.
VCon, please stop pushing that sleazy loathesome book. You've mentioned it at least ten times already... WE HEARD YOU.
If that's the only way you think you can win, it doesn't say much for the wrinkly white-haired dude.
Conservative from Rome - MN in play ?
not likely, but not a blowout like Ras tried to sell it earlier. No one there every really believed his earlier #'s.
MN will split their tickets so 2000 McCain would have had a decent shot there.
But I seriously doubt McCain can break 50% in MN. Obama may not either though... still he has the better odds to win in Nov.
VA & CO are truly in play as you say. Few other states will be in Nov. Maybe OH, possibly FL - MI doubtful. But note that the real 'in play' states are almost exclusively RED states that McCain MUST win. That is a trend worth charting...
You sound a little concerned about that book. Not good for the cult leader with big ears.
"Last night on Larry King they were saying this book could CHANGE THE ELECTION!"
Yeah, it could until Larry f'n King ripped him a new asshole! Now McCain is tainted with Corsi's discredited slime. Good job, Jerome!
"Whatever helps you sleep at night...'cause I'm not losing any..."
Well, you are losing an election, but I'm glad to hear that it's not costing you any sleep.
"but for Obama and his people to cry foul every time they've been questioned on their policies is a bit much..."
Yap yap yap. Your comments are there for everyone to see, you're not fooling anyone with this pitiful attempt to pretend that you were addressing policy details when you were making imbecilic "AMERICUNZ R WAKINGZ UP!" pronouncements.
You're a fool, it's documented, live with it.
Oh, Mule, please come up with something original? Yes, we know it makes you guys uncomfortable when liberals hit back against your nonsense. So naturally, we're "angry." Actually, I'm sipping some water and enjoying you goofs fall all over yourselves over a one-point lead - - in a state you HAVE to win. If that's "angry," well, yeah, then I guess I'm furious! :) Relax, sparky.
I really do want truckloads of McSame dollars landing in the MSP market no later than tonight, though. Time to close the deal in that historic swing (heck - - right-leaning?) state of Minnesota.
Corsi doesn't support McCain. He supports the Constitution Party. Good luck trying to link the two!
"You sound a little concerned about that book. Not good for the cult leader with big ears"
Nope, I love it. Corsi is getting humiliated across the media, and McCain is getting associated with the swiftboaters. It's f'n hilarious and very good news for your next president (i.e., the esteemed B. Hussein Obama).
"Corsi doesn't support McCain. He supports the Constitution Party. Good luck trying to link the two!"
Perceptions, baby!
in latest two presidential elections dems won Minnesota only by 2 and 3 points...now for Quinnipiac it's Obama by 2, for Rasmussen it's Obama by 4, for Survey it's Obama by 1...i think McCain can try to win...
One point in Colorado!
One point in Virginia!
Can McCain hold both?
Find out next time on...
PATHETIC NUTJOBS TRY TO EXPLAIN WHY MCCAIN ISN'T WINNING WHILE OBAMA IS ON VACATION
I'm afraid I've got a pretty good idea about the proximate cause--it's McCain's deployment of the canard (a.k.a. "lie"), "Obama plans to raise your taxes if you make just $42,000."
Not a Neo
I agree. I have to admit I enjoy reading some of these silly neo-con parrot postings.
but the rude abusive slime is disgusting.
please neo-cons. make yourselves at home & offer useful rational POLLING related discourse; just quit crapping here...
Yeah that association with swiftboaters sure hurt Bush!
Swiftboaters are great for us. You still haven't learned to deal with them.
Ok, in 2006 you did swiftboat Allen. Thats the only example I can think of.
VC
Have you earned enough points for your McSame toaster yet?
I'm guessing the movement toward McCain is due to the Russia/Georgia stuff. I don't really see the former Soviet republic of Georgia becoming a running theme in McCain's ads or stump speeches, and the American public is famously forgetful, so, I would guess this movement would peter out in the short term even if Obama wasn't set to shake things up with a VP announcement next week.
Good news for McCain if he can hold Colorado or solidify his gains in Minnesota.
Ooh, VP announcement. I hope he picks Tim Kaine! Please please PLEASE pick Toll Road Timmeh, Senator. Please!?
Conservative from Rome @ 6:55 PM said...
"in latest two presidential elections dems won Minnesota only by 2 and 3 points...now for Quinnipiac it's Obama by 2, for Rasmussen it's Obama by 4, for Survey it's Obama by 1...i think McCain can try to win..."
now that is a reasonable post. must appreciated.
your point is valid as I admitted previously. McCain can & should attempt to win in MN. It is true however that the dynamics & history make it difficult for him to break through this year.
It very well might be close, but in the end MN goes BLUE at least by a thread.
However, this is the same dynamics that Obama faces in VA - except for the changing demos in VA & the anticipated high AA turnout.
Neither apply in MN this year so advantage Obama...
DCM: well said, my man. The rude abusive slime is disgusting, as we see Obama start mounting a lead in the polls post-convention (if not before), it will just get worse. Should be fun to watch, in a schadenfreude sort of way. So will the American public getting a REAL look at this old codger with no ideas, no economic expertise, and frankly a frightening presentation. The MSM will try to prop him up, but it won't fly. And election fraud isn't in play this year thanks to all the key Dem SoS and governors in place.
Vac: wait - - you're proud of a group that smeared a veteran for getting wounded during military service? What does that say about you? Sad.
I'm proud of a group that showed Kerry for the leftist, anti-military, anti-American fraud he is.
Do you have any idea what he did in the 70s? People like him are the reason Vietnam Vets were spit on and called baby killers.
Are you proud of a guy that accused innocent American soldiers of war crimes and was a member of a radical group that once held a meeting to plot the assassination of President Nixon?
dcm in fl i have to admit Obama has still the lead in Minnesota...no question...i think the best thing we can do is read the numbers...
By the way, between the two major-party candidates, the better-looking, more telegenic guy has won every year since at least 1976 (1960 if you count 1964, 1968, and 1972 as unfortunate ties).
It's pathetic, but it's true. As long as Obama can at least hold his own against McCain (I do set the bar low, don't I?) I wouldn't be surprised to see serious movement toward Obama after the first televised presidential debate.
That's points in favor of VP candidates like Romney, Biden, and Sebelius, too - they're respectable-looking, they have stage presence, and they photograph cleanly.
VC, I supported Bush in '04, but John Kerry is a war hero.
Not a Neo,
thanks. I respect reasonable partisanship. but the clowns are just too annoying...
this site has professed a liberal slant behind the statistical analysis so why do the trolls invest so much energy in vomitting the bile & venow toward liberals & especially Obama ?
feel pity for those sad & pathetic parrots & dittoheads...
Its not what he did in Vietnam (though there are questions there too) but what he did when he got back that makes Kerry a jackass.
What kind of a war hero throws away his medals, joins a radical leftist group, and accuses American soldiers of being like Ghenghis Khan?
VCon... so you have grudges against Kerry that made you proud of the Swiftboaters.
But... what has Obama done that causes you to welcome a book about him that even the author admits contains numerous falsehoods?
Seriously... just running for the other party makes him, in your mind, fair game to be lied about?
You know... that really IS sad.
Conservative from Rome,
I agree with your last post. Let the #'s speak in Oct & November.
time will tell you has the superior campaign & analysis too.
Wait, Vac - - so you disagree with Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam. Got it.
How does that justify your slavering praise for a group of liars who attacked a wounded veteran for . . . getting wounded? As I said, sad.
Neoclown (please tell me you actually KNOW what "neocon" means?)--
There are questions about some of Kerry's medals, yeah, but the anti-war stuff pisses me off more. No, not anti-war, just plain anti-military, anti-American.
And then he had the audacity to run as the military candidate. Please!
Talk about going whichever way the wind blows.
Two things...
1. Obama needs CO just about as much as McCain does. On my map, CO, with NV, give McCain the election. So Obama is officially losing on my map (GOP+1 VA).
2. Trolls are Obama supporters as well. I see the libs on this site trying to link that term with the McCain people here. It's dumb and disingenuous.
I think Obama’s initially weak reaction to Georgia and then his having to adopt the Bush-McCain position on this crucial foreign policy crisis made Obama look bad and hurt him - -even more than the normal focus on foreign affairs would. That he was on vacation and did not emerge created more of a perfect storm.
It is hard to say if the ads are finally starting to gain traction. Many seem to think they missed their mark.
Whatever the cause for the current decline, it is likely to continue. Expect a further slippage in the polls for Obama as the news of the roll call and its implications gets out. Many of the Clinton supporters who had resolved themselves to Obama may move to undecided as they await the results of the Colorado smack down.
Y’all know she forced him into a roll call.
What a weenie!
I am beginning to think she’s got pictures.
You Obama supporters seem awful confident you guys will get it done. I'd love to ask you how come Obama can't blow this thing open when the Democrats own nearly a 10 point edge in party id over the GOP? That is one question you folks refuse to answer, because you know it's because of the inexperience of Obama!
I don't see any McCain voters on here talking all the smack you guys are talking.
The last time I checked, you guys had leads in 2000 and 2004 in August, before losing in the fall....
MCCAIN 2008!
Watch obama go into a free fall after his speech in front of 75,000 people in Denver...similar reaction to the Berlin speech...you'd think they would have learned their lesson, but they can't help themselves. This election is about America, not Barack Obama's ego.
Nate has a new post up now.
People, Pete Kent is just riffing like a crazy clown on there...
For a good laff, go check it out.
Our expert, Pete, states that McCain has VAULTED to a lead in CO...
oh my god I am getting a sideache laffing.
such an amusingly ignorant neo-clown parrot
PeteKent,
Think about how powerful an image it would be if Obama came off vacation once he heard of the Georgia situation. He would have looked engaged and looked the part. He wouldn't have had to go overboard, just come off vacation. That would have even looked good in my eyes, and I think his policies are a poison pill.
STUTTER -
trolls can be of any persuassion. but currently this site is infested mostly by neo-con cave trolls.
EG - "PAGOP said...
Watch obama go into a free fall after his speech in front of 75,000 people in Denver...similar reaction to the Berlin speech...you'd think they would have learned their lesson, but they can't help themselves. This election is about America, not Barack Obama's ego."
THAT is a troll...
DNFTT
DCM, define "neocon". I want to see how ignorant you really are of the American right.
Vac - -
My posting name is simply a joke. Sorry to be so difficult.
You've evaded the question twice, so I assume you have no good answer. Your opposition to Kerry for his anti-war activities does not square with your drooling praise of a group of Republican-funded maniacs who despicably attacked a veteran of the United States armed forces for getting wounded.
STUTTER
your last post is what gives all trolls a bad name.
you talk to Pete the Parrot Clown about stoopid stuff that clogs the blog.
stay on point for real analysis or get to a private chatroom & jack off...
VA CON,
well I guess you haven't figured out how to use the google yet [like Johnny Mac]
I will provide you several versions of definitions for your ilk courtesy of Urban Dictionary @
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=neocon:
1. Neocon
Neoconservative. Criminally insane spenders that believe in killing brown people for the new world order. Huge Orwellian government, unfathomable amounts of spending, bomb tens of thousands of people to death to rearrange the globe. Take the worst aspects of the liberal and conservative positions and combine them into one and you would have a NeoCon.
Neocons are the greatest threat to life, liberty and property this country has ever known.
new gop new republican party cheney rumsfailed rove
2. neocon
Morally idealistic conservatatives. neocon is short for neo-conservative. Neocons separate themselves from Republicans that are traditionally fiscal conservative.
Slang - Crusading republican.
Slang - Neocons exist separated into two very distinct groups. The largest, group one, are the people below the 99th income percentile. They are religous and/or war-mongering blowhard lemmings who follow the second group; The second group is made up of the top one percent. They cut taxes for themselves, borrow trillions (second term pending), and their behavior is largely the subject of this blog. Of necessity, they pay Rove to pipe tabloid for the Rats. Lemmings rather. Whichever, they both work.
Vlugar - White bible thumping trash.
The draft-dodging neocons running the white house are threatening our future as a great nation.
3. neocon
Neoconservative. Originally used to describe left-wingers who crossed the floor, neocons are on the authoritarian right, rather than the traditionally conservative libertarian right. They tend to be very pro-war and adopt the mentality of "We're better than you and we know it."
- Some more vulgar people call them Neoc&#ts. [McCain's pet name for Cindy]
"I don't really like Kerry, but I'd rather see him in power than those horrendous neocons who currently run things!"
sorry for the graphics folks but Va CON has been so insistent that he needs to be schooled...
yeah, DCM...that post to me really gets your needle off of trolldom. My post was on point enough...yours was ridiculous.
How many times have I seen "game over, Obama's numbers are in free-fall!" over the past month and a half of this STATIC ELECTION SEASON?
Every time anything happens, the mouthpieces are on here asserting that it's all over for Obama, he's sinking like a rock strapped to the Titanic. It makes things seem so...boring.
Guess what? I'm not a neocon.
I don't like NCLB, I don't like Medicare Part D, I hate big spending, I couldn't stand Tom Delay and his KKK (Kompassionate Konservative Krewe). I spell it with "K"s because they really aren't compassionate or really conservative.
John McCain isn't a "neocon", either, btw.
neocons are killing the Republican party and what it SHOULD stand for. Unfortunately, the alternative is something even worse. Obama and his wealth distritbuion. THAT is why McCain is keeping his base. It is also why Obama can't seem to get 50 percent for almost anything outside of deep blue states...even with the 57% democrat sample that most are using. Think about it for a second. Really. Fifty seven percent of the people polled are Democrats and he still can't get to 50%. Bush has approvals around 30, and is a Republican..meanwhile Obama can't even get to 50%. And you guys are arguing that the McCain people should be worried? It doesn't get any worse than this for the GOP and Obama can't get 50% under these ridiculously favorable conditions.
Not going to say' "I told you so"...yet. But I did!!!
The coming months will continue to show the wisdom of my words.
Some Reactions . . .
Neoclown: I love the way you make up numbers without any empirical support. On what basis can you conclude that Obama is up by 3-4 % in CO?
Nice try Ape! How can you possibly conclude that these polls show nothing has changed? Obama has lost 12 points in MN! Twelve points, my friends, twelve points! And Ape – these are not all must win states for McC. , but they are for Obama. McC can lose them all as long as he wins big in Macomb Cy and takes MI. And Ape – ten people were watching Larry King last night. The book debuted at no.1 on the NYTs best seller list, number one, my friends, number one!
Mrinsight said it well: “Seniors and working class whites are quietly biding their time to come out in droves against Obama in November.” This is why you don’t see McC’s support so obviously. He is not as cool. That and the Bradley Effect, of course.
VA Conservative is right: Obama’s support for infanticide and partial birth abortion has not yet reached the public consciousness. When it does millions will recoil. Totally agree with Kaine as the best pick for Obama, right behind Mrs. Sibelius.
Fillastro: McC will have the edge in the debates. He starts with zero expectations. As long as he doesn’t fall asleep or look at his watch, he wins! You lose.
Stutter: You are right. I feared Obama would wise up and get the hell out of HI. Even Bush postponed a vacation.
Holy sheeeeet, the wingnuts are out in force tonight. A statistical tie in Colorado and a 4 point for Obama lead in Minnesota. Indeed, it's party time in Freeptard U.S.A
Here's my take. Post-European tour, Obama lost a crucial week to trivia and negative attack ads - courtesy of Rove/Schmidt/McCain. As a result he was down in the state and national polls. No biggie.
The following week Obama was back on the campaign trail proper, and as a result, regained his advantage in the polls. He then went on vacation just as the Edwards and Russia/Georgia stories broke. Obama hasn't been in the news all week, McCain has been grandstanding all week trying to start World War III. Oh, and the "liberal media" have predictably been giving free airtime to conservative fruitball, Jerome Corsi. After his performance on Larry King, that'll surely change, especially now that the Obama camp have released a 40 page factcheck to the media. Mark Halperin is apparently the first to recieve it. They're also planning to delve into Corsi's background and past statements.
Corsi is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist to boot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/anti-obama-author-on-911-conspiracy/
How are the FOX Noise wingnuts gonna react to that? There's also a YouTube video making the rounds which mocks Corsi for a Jan. 29 interview on Alex Jone’s radio show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yCfI3VmL88
The blogs have been frustrated with the Obama camp's response to McCain's smear tactics. Despite Obama taking the hign road and consistently leading in the polls, they've been itching for weeks for Obama to take the gloves off. I don't think anyone could argue with the fact that Obama has yet to scratch the surface on what he can throw at McCain.
Basically, I think Obama still has all his cards to play. For me, the 2008 campaign begins when Obama picks his VP. Whoever he picks will be extremely important, and it will set him up for Denver.
Just to underline my point above - How would an endorsement from Chuck Hegel and Colin Powell affect the polls and public opinion? Both are likely to come at some point. How would that play with undecideds and independents?
STUTTER -
my complaint was your post above:
"stop_the_stutter said...
PeteKent,
Think about how powerful an image it would be if Obama came off vacation once he heard of the Georgia situation. He would have looked engaged and looked the part. He wouldn't have had to go overboard, just come off vacation. That would have even looked good in my eyes, and I think his policies are a poison pill."
are you really trying to claim that your quoted post to Pete is 'on point' ???
what is the POINT except to prove your troll bonafides...
on the rare occasion that you have a valid point, then we can discuss.
in the meantime, you are a waste of space
Kerry only received 47% of the Catholic vote in 2004 and he was Catholic. Obama will be lucky to break 40%. Look for his radical pro-abortion agenda to be highlighted in the fall
PorridgeGun -
stop it, you made me laff.
thanx but we should not be feeding the you know whats...
[they do not like being recognized as trolls apparently...]
Everything that I see on the states is using Likely Voters. I think that the results will prove that these filters don't reflect the real picture.
PAGOP,
I don't agree with Obama's abortion stance, but it's not "radical". It's pretty much in line with the Democratic Party platform.
And since Obama's running mate is probably going to be Catholic, and Catholics aren't any stupider than the rest of the country when it comes to seeing how badly the GOP has fucked things up, I think he can break 40% of the Catholic vote pretty easily.
all rasmussen all the time, Huh? what outsize influence that GOP robocall 500 person sample size non-cellphone calling don't release the cross-tabs pollster has on this site...
Mark,
I would say that allowing a baby who survives an abortion to die is on the radical side of the pro-choice movement. See his record in the Illinois state legislature..it wasn't that long ago.
He better break 40%..probaly needs up to 45% (27% of the electorate)
McCain will be lucky to get enough of the Republican vote. I mean, have you seen his record before 2005? It wasn't that long ago.
michael
the creepy thing is that ALL the polling sites over-rely on RR push polls for establishing their 'trends'...
glad I am not alone in thinking that something is off in this...
He'll get more of the Republican vote than Obama will of the Democratic vote.
DCM,
You are a biased simpleton. Porridge spews all that nonsense and you praise him. How is that any more on topic than what I said?
If I am a troll, then you are a slack-jawed retard who is in awe of two simpleton words "hope" and "change". You are not worth a dime towards my cup of coffee. You exposed yourself as a buffoon for praising that Porridge tripe as anything but a left-wing pep talk.
Rasmussen is the Microsoft of polling.
Scott tries to consolidate the market...
This statement says it all, "I don't want them punished with a baby" (Senator Obama, in Pennsylvania, speaking about his daughters).
The fact that the man thinks a woman is "punished with a baby" when she made the CHOICE to have sex is insane.
Barack Obama had the chance to support legislation to ensure that babies who survive abortion are afforded the same legal protections as those who are spontaneously born prematurely. In fact, he had 3 chances, but he refused to vote in favor of protecting these vulnerable lives all 3 times.
This statement says it all, "I don't want them punished with a baby" (Senator Obama, in Pennsylvania, speaking about his daughters).
The fact that the man thinks a woman is "punished with a baby" when she made the CHOICE to have sex is insane.
Barack Obama had the chance to support legislation to ensure that babies who survive abortion are afforded the same legal protections as those who are spontaneously born prematurely. In fact, he had 3 chances, but he refused to vote in favor of protecting these vulnerable lives all 3 times.
Rassmussen's had Obama up in Colorado for like 7 months and he has one with McCain up by 1pt and everyone calls him phoney?
STUTTER -
I said Porridge made me laff. I made no comment on his content in that post.
go back to troll school, parrot head
PAGOP
we are not saying Ras is phoney. but he has shown a history of shading his results & changing his models & weighting in a manner that could be questionable for this point in the cycle.
He is an admitted partisan so this should come as no real surprise.
However, in the end in late Oct & Nov, he will provide decent polling #'s. But at this point he may be cooking the numbers slightly to push his agenda & sell his premium package.
after all, a good close race with shifting polls gets he face time on MSM & especially FOX plus he gets $20/mo for his data...
smart marketing, so take it for what it is worth at face value.
things are close as they have been for the entire year & will be for at least another month...
DCM in FL -- Who appointed you the arbiter of pertinent commentary.
I can't recall a single thing you have written that is not a criticism of someone else.
You are forgettable.
And annoyingly provocative for no reason other than to stir controvery. in other words, a "troll".
OT:
PeteKent,
You made me laff (sic).
Is that ok to say?
DCM,
I respect what you are saying, but I just don't see any of his polls that are out of whack with how the race stands right now. Which one would you guys argue with? He has Colorado and Virginia dead even and he had Obama with a huge lead in Wisconsin and Minnesota (until this latest ones), and I think Quinnipiac has Minnesota a 2pt race when Rass was showing like a 12 or 14 pt lead for Obama.
"So where are all these McCain supporters?"
At work.
dudes, i don't think ANYONE here has a clue what 'proximate cause' means... it means, the cause that SEEMS like the cause, but in fact is NOT the cause. (there's a slightly different juridical meaning, but it's clear y'all have in mind the social science meaning.) finding the proximate cause isn't what you want to find...
Pete,
That post is the best post of the night.
I'm a McCain supporter who has already paid his debt to welfare today....lol!
I have to keep it on topic, for real now.
PAGOP
try the OH +10 McCain
and his previous MN poll was a huge outlier trying to say Obama +13.
those are just a few examples of how RR distorts the mean & plays games with the trends...
Why do you guys always take the McCain troll's bait? They only come on here to get under your skin when McCain shows an uptick in the polls. Just ignore them and they'll go away.
Obama has been out of the public eye this week, most people are on vacation and those that aren't are watching Michael Phelps kick some ass. The people still at home answering the pollster phone calls are the older crowd -- that's the statistical noise this week.
McCain is underperforming Bush by 4 points or so nationally -- he'll probably continue to do so and finish up at 47-48% on election day. If McCain gets 48% on 11/4 he will not win MN or MI or PA.
Obama has NM and IA on his side -- he needs to pick up one more state out of NV, CO, VA, IN, OH, or FL to get to at least 269 EVs.
So, I ask everybody posting on this blog - which candidate is in the better electoral position?
The state that will determine this race for Obama is VA -- this is shaping up and looking a lot like Webb vs Allen in '06. If McCain does not break 48% on 11/4, he will lose VA by 1.5%.
Rest easy, Obama will have a kick-ass convention, he'll hopefully pick a great VP and then wipe the floor with the wrinkly white haired dude in the debates.
I don't buy it...the guy's national tracker has been steady for months and his record is good. If he was playing games, this site and RCP wouldn't use him.
No doubt Obama is in a better position right now because he is on offense in more states. Why is someone a troll if they want to make a few points?
i just talked with a friend in MN and he seems to think the reason why BO is losing his momentum is because McCain is higlighting BO's inexperience with ads in the state. I don't understand it. I know that BO is the most inexperienced candidate in modern election history but does that really matter when you are the leader of the free world? Gees. I think we need to quit attacking him on his inexperience. I know plenty of kids that become CEO's of major corporations with just a few years of experience on the job. I sent my resume in to be interviewed for the CEO of Wal-Mart after serving in middle management in a store in Owensboro, KY. I didn't get a call back but I bet I would have been a really good candidate.
Daniel,
Does that mean if I ignore you, you will go away? The name calling is what makes YOU a troll. Keep on jabbin at seniors. They are going to break very heavily for McCain not only because he is an easier choice, but because of all the old-jokes.
Go ahead though, keep doing it. It's kind of like Obama's dollar bill comment...the more he says it, the more he looks paranoid and shrill.
I don't even know who my state senator is, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want him/her to be President of the United States in 2012.
Believing: "quiet people vote too" is correct. However, believing "seniors and working class whites are quietly biding their time to come out in droves against Obama in November" is faulty, at best.
I am surrounded by people who meet that description plus all (even the females) cling to their guns and their religion. Truthfully, there has been some racism among these good people. I was shocked this past weekend when I learned, from them, that they have been paying attention, and they have concluded that the nice young man from Hawaii has Aloha spirit, understands about Pearl Harbor, and has the right idea about dealing with Russia. They say they are not ready for World War III.
Did I mention most of them are lifelong Republicans?
Overrated... that post was priceless!
I just hope the Liberals continue to ignore reality.
Smitty -- You are full of sh*t
Get the hell offa my lawn!
Pete - I read the link you posted a few days back to your web page. I thought you were a better person.
I wrote the truth and I haven't been on your lawn.
Don't be an ass to Smitty, Pete.
Thank you, Mark.
The real slam is to the seniors I visited who are all in their late 70's and early 80's. Perhaps Pete doesn't understand that the older, rural Western women owned guns and used them to protect their gardens and chickens?
On August 14, 2004, Kerry had the lead in states worth 327 electoral votes on electoral-vote.com. We all know how that turned out in November.
On August 14, 2008, Obama has 284 electoral votes on electoral-vote.com (43 less than Kerry on the same date). Not good news for Obamaphiles.
I'm with you there Stop the Stutter. I'm currently wearing my "NObama" pin I picked up at the fair in the liberal stronghold of Western Washington. I have been saying for weeks that just because you see more Obama stuff doesn't mean he's ahead because conservatives are generally part of a "silent majority".
Nate! I'm begging to do two things.
1. Get the trolls and the folks who are making ridiculous comments off the comment thread. The liberals are jerks comments are particularly stupid. Stick to the subject of the post.
2. Change the model or offer an alternative model to include the 3rd party candidates. I bet if you include Bob Barr and Ralph Nader there could be some interesting results.
Well said Pete, well said. A similar thing happened at my local fair. Someone wondered aloud next to the Democratic booth why there were so many Democratic volunteers and a cell phone booth worker responded, "They're Democrats, they don't work!" More to the point, bjb I think that quote says something about Obama. The fact that he thinks a baby is punishment is simply awful.
Rasmussen like other pollsters have shifted their party ID in favor of the Republicans. Not that the media has decided McCain has a chance of winning, suddenly the Repubs have come out of the closet. Sorry, but I'm not buying the story line. Personally, I think most of these guys should seek new employment. The media coverage of this election has been pathetic. What is more pathetic is that the polling companies seem all to happy to shift their numbers to align with the narrative. We have really reached a sad state of affairs.
Wow, what a lot of excitement over a poll that shows Obama leading by 4 in MN and McCain leading by 1 point in CO. Yes, there is a trend which shows Obama's lead in those states and others dipping. But it doesn't concern me in the least.
Why? Obama is on holiday and for the past week, McCain has therefore had greater face time on TV. It's the same reason why Obama got a temporary lift from his overseas trip. The movement in the polls is simply soft movement of floating voters reacting to their general sense of where things stand which is inevitably coloured by what they have seen and heard in recent days. I doubt however that this is a long term shift simply because nothing of substance has happened this week. Georgia will not be an issue in November.
At moments like this I actually have greater admiration for Republicans on the basis that unlike Democrat supporters, they don't go weak at the knees when they see a few worse polls. There you go PeteKent, some praise for you albeit backhanded.
The fact remains that Obama continues to lead comfortably in national polls and in state polls he is far better positioned than McCain (albeit not quite as well as he was last week). Once Obama is back in town (later today) and re-engages McCain on the economy, we will see a reversion just as we did once Obama brushed off the Paris Hilton celebrity nonsense.
Watch and learn.
PS I have no idea why Nate has added a McCain +5 national poll to his poll tracker today. The only national poll showing a lead for McCain was over a week ago. I do hope Nate is not being a pussy and feeling the need to skew his tracker so that it matches up with these recent state polls. If anything the recent trend in national polls has seen a re-establishment by Obama of a lead of 4 points on average according to RealClearPolitics from a low of 2 points a week ago.
PPS As for Rasmussen generally I do not believe that he cheats his number as some suggest. Yes, he altered party ID to give the Republicans a 2 point swing but he declared it. If that was wrong, then McCain's Colorado lead is actually an Obama lead of 1 point and in MN, Obama leads by 6. The only sense in which Rasmussen is clearly biased is in the ancillary questions he asks. For instance, he always asks about offshore drilling in order to promote it as an issue. He also asks other loaded questions such as whether the media is helping Obama. I have no problem with that but he doesn't balance that up by asking, say, whether people view McCain's campaign ads as unfair of false. FoxNews (of all people) released poll findings a few days ago which showed that 40% of people think McCain's ads are negative compared to 15% who think they are positive. The figures were reversed for Obama. If that polling was given more publicity it might affect the political discourse. So in that sense only do I think that Rasmussen is biased.
oooh people are shouty today arent they. The US must be one of the most polarized nations in the western world politically speaking. You have 2 candidates who said in the primaries they wanted to 'play nice' and look at what you are all doing. Tis very strange.
Why cant you all start with:
The race is tightening, BO is ahead. then maybe you wouldnt be so partiszn?
Anyways:
If Bo has 6 routes to victory [presuming he holds NH and MI.
1.the West 3 of IA/CO/NM/NV
2. a gamebreaker 1. Ohio
3. 1+1: Indiana + 1/2 westerns
4. 1+1 [2] VA + 1/2 Western
5. a gamebreaker 2. FL
6.the long shot GO,NC somthing based around a huge AA turnout.
And if that is fair:
1. He is now behind in his best shot of winning.
2. as the change candidate he should be further ahead. - candidates for change tend to start stong and fall back slightly.
Nate could we get a small table showing safe states for either side and in play?
2. Change the model or offer an alternative model to include the 3rd party candidates. I bet if you include Bob Barr and Ralph Nader there could be some interesting results.
1) The system sort of does this anyways. On the "popular vote" pie chart, the Obama and McCain figures don't add up to 100; the remainder (right now, 2.5%) is presumably third-party vote.
2)
Opinion polls ALWAYS overstate third-party support. (Well, those that include them.) See this article by Mark Blumenthal and this post by Al Giordano. The articles deal more with June polling, but it's still applicable in pre-convention-season.
Interesting piece by Tom Jensen of PPP as to one of the reasons why PPP showed an Obama lead of 4 in Colorado while Rasmussen had a McCain lead of 1
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/
VC Your the type of guy that voted for Bush, then never wanted to admit to it but now you think your decision is better because you are voting for McSame. Ignorant people like you are the reason America is not respected even in my home country of Poland. Maybe think before you vote next time and not make America worse of then it already is.
I think P Smith gets it right. McCain is busy pontificating about Georgia and getting facetime with more news and ads; Obama is on vacation. Very similar to a reverse, smaller version of Obama's overseas bounce. (And by smaller, we are talking maybe 1/4 the movement Obama saw). Probably just as transitory, as well.
Obama has consistently been playing a strategic game this summer, taking short-term hits ("tacking to the center," "spending time overseas," "being on vacation") so that he can come back to the Conventions with all his negatives corrected and keep momentum going through the fall.
Meanwhile, McCain had campaign staff issues and only got his act together a month ago by deciding to capitulate to the Rovian handlers...and those handlers haven't given McCain a moment's rest. Are there McCain vulnerabilities? Sure...w/ George Bush being the top of them. And you haven't seen Obama really pull out his big attacks yet.
The real fight won't begin until the conventions. Obama's been busy taking short term hits to go strong into the conventions and the fall. And he'll be going in two to four points ahead. All he needs to do is hold onto that lead and not let it slip away the way it did for Kerry. Could it? Sure. But this is a forward looking game he's playing. It's like the Olympic swimmers holding back on the first laps and saving it for the last 500 meters. By the time they get to the debates, Obama will appear rested, informed, and optimistic. McCain's going to tire himself out and appear grumpy and mean. Let's see who crosses the finish line ahead.
Sorry, should have been 50, not 500 meters. (Though this campaign seems like that...)
Nate,
UNDERSTANDING COLORADO
I refer you and your followers back to your analysis several weeks ago regarding the error we junkies make in trying to attribute poll movements to micro rather than lagged macro inputs.
I was a Republican Colorado legislator in the late 90s and early 00s. Here are some insights into Colorado to chew on:
1) The Democrat surge over the last 10 years in Colorado's state and federal seats is due primarily to superior organization, the fundraising from four multimillionaire benefactors, campaign reforms that advantaged the Democrats and a much better systematic financial, career and organizational support of their young emerging politicians. I left the legislature by choice due to career and financial considerations and I wasn't alone. It was as if every young Democrat in the legislature had an adjunct prof gig and/or and exec directorship of some grant funded nonprofit. The young Republicans were trying to work real private sector jobs and serve (and it was destroying them personally). My seat was lost 2 years after I left. McInnis could have held the 3rd CD forever or won the Campbell Senate seat or Owens’ Governorship. He left politics for family and financial reasons.
2) The Democrats trumped the GOP in redistricting and reapportionment through their control of the state courts and their clever federal lawsuit that allowed them to get a judge they could assess before deciding how to approach congressional seats in the state legislature. Once they got a "good" judge assigned they chose that route and won. The 7th CD is a Democrat masterpiece crafted at state party HQ and rubber stamped by a federal judge.
Colorado's Democrat swing is due first to superior politics (Mike Feeley was rumored to have even funneled money to the Libertarians - who ran extensive slates to knock 2-3 points off Rs in close seats. It worked in several cases).
3) The Democrat Convention in Denver is a fiasco and is hurting Obama. We're getting weekly stories on the latest example of bad government and party corruption. For example, the use by DNC fundraisers of tax exempt City of Denver gasoline pumps to fill their cars. Maverick independent local talk radio host Pete Boyles is on AM every morning ripping the Dems and almost promoting the far left counter-demonstrators to act. Since gaining power the Dems have raised taxes every year and its having and impact on their numbers. Ritter unionized the state employees. Ritter will have a touch time getting re-elected.
4) Pelosi is killing Obama. The Dems "lets drill the magic existing leases" is code for lets drill the square states and protect our homeboy coastal NIMBYs. Everone in the West sees through this. That means its drill the Roan Plateau in Colorado's pristine mountains but don't touch Pelosi's NorCal coast or Kennedy's Nantucket. This is poison in the center of the country for the Ds.
5) Colorado is still an anti-Washington libertarian state. The Federal Government is hated. Forests the size of Massachusetts are dead from pine beetle kill almost all on federal land. Big federal government doesn't play in the West.
6) Obama's decision to assume a pseudo presidency along with the Democrats control of Congress makes them look more and more like the incumbent party. This is killing Obama's change theme. The more Pelosi’s on TV and the more Obama acts like a sitting President the more he and the Ds look like the DC insiders.
7) As more and more slowly leaks into the independent voter's mind about Obama's time in Chicago and Illinois politics the more he looks corrupt. The motive behind Obama that validates these corruption rumors for the independent “jury” voter is Obama’s arrogance and power lust. This image of Obama is getting into their minds with McCain’s genius celebrity ads (which are running heavily on Colorado media).This will continue to be a slow eroding line with Obama in the West until Election Day.
I'll post more if this generates interest.
I think Obama loses ground whenever he's not making news. He needs to keep that news-plate spinning but not so much that it flies off say like it did into Berlin like last month - hence a delicate balance needs to be struck from now until November by him. Maybe an endorsement by Phlyboy Phelps could help in the short term? or by his twin!
I find it difficult to believe that pople are reading so much into these new Minnesota numbers.
Look at the Party IDs
Three weeks ago Rasmussen used a breakdown of 52/39 (D/R).
Now it's 49/45.
Are we expected to believe that more than 100,000 switched Parties in Minnesota between 7/22 and 8/13?
If Party ID in Minnesota broke down 49/45 as Rasmussen claims it currently does, then Norm Coleman would be breaking 50% without trouble.
What I find interesting about this site and Nate, is that it went from a totally numbers based site, to slightly partisan to ,now we know where Nate Stands site.
Because of his declared Obama status, I don't know why Nate just won't say (I will), "that most of the current state and national polls are questionable, because these polls continue to push Party ID towards the republican's, re-align demographics and/or use likely voter models (instead of registered ones)".
I guess Nate decided not to criticize these polls, because nothing switched dramtically, but he shouldn't of dropped the win % so dramtically ("But I thought he was biased").
Unfortunately, I take all these polls, with a grain of salt, until I see consectutive trends or decent internals..
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